Conference hbahba::cam_sports

	The Philly game was a great show of dominance that could carry over
to the next game. I look for two teams of equal caliber and preparidness to
strap it on on Sunday. Since its my 44th birthday, I'm looking forward to
a present from Jimmy and the Boys from Big "D".

        From what I saw of the Redskins/49 game, SF is beatable at home.
If not for Rippen's fumble down near the red zone at the end, we'd be seeing
another 2 out of 3 match up in Dallas this weekend.

	No predictions here though other than hoping for a exciting game
since the Stupid Bowl should be another NFC blowout

Cadzilla 

I don't know about Rypien's turnover being that big. If San Fran doesn't turn
it over the Skins aren't even close so the turnovers were a wash. Frisco has
been putting a hurtin' on the opposision's running games this year. It'll be
interesting to see how they handle the NFC's best back. I think Frisco's
offensive line and Young's running ability will be the difference in this
one.

frisco  27
sowboys 17

mike

	Well I got the two things I wanted most for my B-Day. A Blue's Brothers
sound track and a COWBOY win over the 9er's. It was a great game,even though
the 9er's mistakes took away from their chances to make it a bit more exciting.

	Accounts from the local rag say the 9er's were upset that they couldn't
get more output in the first half when they should have scored more. From 
the first half on the game was dominated both of the COWBOY lines. The two
long drives basically took the 9er's out of their games plan, Not being able
to convert on third down killed nearly all their offensive output. Smith's
running and Aikman's pass Harper at the end spelled the doom of any comeback
for the 9er's. 

	As much as I hate to say it, if Seffert had given the ball to
Montana during the second half the outcome may have been different. It appeared 
to me that Young got rattled after the quick return score. Still having to score
two TD's with no time left was to much for him to handle, causing a ill advised
pass down the middle for his second pick of the day. 

	I expect a high scoring Stupid Bowl, since both teams appear to be
peaking at the same time. Whomever has the ball last should win. Local rag
line has Dallas by +7  COWBOYS make a record sixth appearance in the SB.

 
 Cadzilla

    I don't think that Montana would have made that much of a difference.
    Maybe if he had played the whole season but not after being inactive
    for so long. 

    Young was close to being sacked many times. It always seems like the
    Cowboys were always a step late. This was mostly because Young is
    athletic enough to get out of those situations by stepping forward in
    the pocket and strong enough to take shot if and when he did scramble.
    In those same situations I doubt seriously if Joe would have been able
    to get out of them. He is not as strong as Young and a good shot would
    have probably hurt him again. Seifert must have felt he had a reason 
    not to send Joe M. into the game. His arm is ready but is he really in 
    game shape. Its all water under the bridge now. The game has been
    played and we'll never know for sure what would have happened if J.
    Montana had come into the game.

    re: Young
    
    Also keep in mind that SF had it to 24-20 with 4:30 left after scoring
    very quickly. What killed the 49ers chance was that pass to Harper (?)
    that got Dallas deep into SF territory. If SF's defense had stopped
    Dallas on 3 downs, SF would have had the ball back with plenty of time
    to score a TD. 
    
    The Crazy Met
    

As I watched the game, and saw the first TD pass to Rice called back,
I couldn't help but think back to the Divisional Playoffs following
the 1986 season, when the 49ers played the Giants.

The first play from scrimmage for the 9ers was a long slant to Rice,
who beat the Giants and was definitely going to score, when the
ball (on its own!) popped out of Rice's hand, and the Giants recovered.

They went on to lose 49-3.


Sunday, when Rice got called back I thought "No way are the 9ers going
to win".....


As a Giant fan, I hate the Cowboys (they rank above only the Redskins
and Eagles on my list) but I have to respect what they have done.  They
turned a 1-15 team totally around, with a great defense, a lot of
team speed and a good potent offense.   As a fan of football I can
really appreciate that.


'Saw

    
    Young didn't play a particularly good game, but only your blinded
    faithful could be calling to bring Montana in after two years of
    inactivity.  Montana woulda got *keeled*, just like he did in the last
    big game he played, the one that put him in his current predicament in
    the first place.  Yet I read where 75% of the call-ins to a SF radio 
    station after the game thought that it should be *Young* that gets 
    traded.  Are 49er fans really that sentimental, unappreciative, 
    front-running, and/or ignorant (take your pick)?
    
    glenn
    

Seems to me it was the SF secondary that got toasted by Dallas.

I don't think Young played a bad game.....  They just got beat by a better
team....at least on that particular Sunday....


'Saw

re:.6

TRAITOR!!

The Crazy Met

>re:.6
>
>TRAITOR!!
>
>The Crazy Met

As my man Marky Mark would say:  Do me.  8^)


Seriously, I've been around and around on this with Mike Childs.

I don't LIKE the Cowboys -- never have, from the days of the great clashes
between the Merideth led 'boy against the Starr led Packers.
For a LONG time, the Cowboys were #1 on my most hated list.

Over the years, there were players on the 'boys who I would have love
to have seen in Giant blue -- Bob Lily, Chuck Howley, Roger Staubach....
So I respected those players.


Of late, Bob Hunts beloved Eagles have topped my hate list.  To me there
is nothing good at all about those boys in green.   Second is the Redskins,
whom I just plain hate (but I like Joe Gibbs).   Third is the Cowboys.
I hate them, but I do respect what they have done...  You have to, because
it's beena remarkable turnaround.....


Cut me, I still bleed Giant blue....


'Saw

One of my biggest disappointments a few years ago was the Cowboys beating the
Redskins and ending up with a 1-15 record. I was hoping that they would
surpass the TB Bucs and go 0-16 for the season. Never particularly liked
the Redskins and Eagles but have always loathed the Cowboys - almost as much
as the Celtics.

The Crazy Met

    Cowboys D-coach is supposedly going to Chicago.  Any news in Dallas?
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

	The local radio here in Colo Springs has Dave Wannstadt (SP?) going
to the Bears. May have just been for the interview. No word from Chicago


  Cadzilla

    Wannstadt (sp?), that's the guy.  From the Chicago news last night, it
    sounded like a "done-deal".
    
    Love to have him, Pettibone seemed kinda boring...  ;-)

Now, if the Giants could snap up Coach Ditka, then SNL would still have
some Super Fan sketches -- the Super Fans from Long-Eye-Land....


'Saw

    Dikka sketches for Joe's Auto Body shop?
    

    I heerd where the Dall-ASS fans are taking lessons from Detroit fans,
    and Bulls fans and made the victory celebration in Dall-ASS U G L Y
    today.
    
    Report was that ~200k people showed up, and after the festivities, tons
    of teenagers clashed with authorities, and other teenagers in incidents
    including rock throwing, bottle throwing, knifings, and even gunshots
    were reported to have been fired.
    
    Seems that some of the local high schools bussed kids to the
    festivities, and rival high schools started the fighting and it just
    snowballed.
    
    Classy, real classy.
    
    JaKe
    

     I wasn't there :^)

    Dallas = Detriot of the South
    
    lEe

    As a Cowboy fan and an ex-resident of Dallas I am ashamed that
    something like that would happen.  The recession was pretty tough
    on Dallas and in many respects the resurgence of the Dallas Cowboys
    gave hope to the city and the state.  
    
    To see a city wanting to thank the Cowboys for providing hope and 
    Texas-pride during those difficult days is fantastic, but i am afraid
    it will all be overshadowed by stupid actions of a few immature
    individuals.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    

    Hey, leave Detriot(tm) out of it.  There hasn't been an incident there
    in a few years.  There wasn't that much more that happened the nights
    in question than any other night.  Just got more press because the
    press was in town. 
    
    Of course, there's no guarantee the same wouldn't happen here.  But then, 
    they haven't won anything in a while to test the waters...

      You mean there are riot type of activities every night in Detroit? 
    Fires, overturning cars, loitering, smashing business windows and etc.?
    
      Sounds like a great place to live.
    
      I don't think any other city would be a whole lot different.  Do you
    think that this bad behavour would of taken place in Buffalo had they
    won?  probably!
    
      If Denver ever wins a SB,  I wouldn't want to be at the
    "celebration"!
    
    
       Tim

    Next time Boston wins a title me and my .45 are gonna have a ball!

    Yo /don,
    Would that .45 be "Here come da Broons" wif Don Earle or
    "The Impossible Dream" wif Jess Cain??
    
    8^)
    MikeL
    

    
    >>           <<< Note 60.21 by ROYALT::ASHE "Goodbye Arthur" >>>

    >>Hey, leave Detriot(tm) out of it.  There hasn't been an incident there
    >>in a few years.  There wasn't that much more that happened the nights
    
    That's cause there's been nuthin to celebrate in Detroit in a few
    years!!   (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    Shaadup MileL!  I celebrate like a *main* with wanton and reckless
    violence!
    
    				/Don

    re.26
    
    And from what I've been told, deadly flatulence.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Detriot (tm)
    
    It's no place for wimps!!!

    Couldn't agree with you more, Walt!  :*)
    
    lEe

	Cowboys 93/94 schedule


  Sept. 6 @ Washington      7 pm
  Sept 12   Buffalo	    2 pm
  Sept 19 @ Phoenix	    6 pm
  Sept 25   Open

  Oct 3    Green Bay       11 am
  Oct 10 @ Indianapolis	   11 am
  Oct 17   San Francisco    2 pm
  Oct 24   Open
  Oct 31 @ Philadelphia    11 am

  Nov 7    New York Giants 11 am
  Nov 14   Phoenix         11 am 
  Nov 21 @ Atlanta         11 am
  Nov 25   Miami	   2  pm
  
  Dec 6    Philadelphia    7  pm
  Dec 12 @ Minnesota       2  pm
  Dec 18 @ New York Jets   2  pm
  Dec 26   Washington      2  pm
  
  Jan 2  @ New York Giants 11 am

    Why do we have "Cowgirls" in the title of this note ?  I have not seen
    any mention of the Phil "Beagles" or the "Faiders" etc...  Is it a
    display of jealousy by the part of the rest of the NFL teams who did
    not win the Super Bowl this year ?  Or is it, that y'all know how
    beautiful Texas women are and want to make mention of them ?
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

Well, .0's author is a Sowboy's fan, so you might wanna axe him.....


hth,
'Saw

    
    
        I'll handle this one..
    
        Well you see. In the late seventys a bill was passed it was called
    the Equal Rights Ammendment.... Far be it for anybody out in the "real
    world" calling Sports noters Chauvinists. So therefore being Equal
    rights activists we are. The name Cowgirls....
    
    
    
    Chappy

    Chapper,
    
    Based on your reasoning I guess the Raiders should be thus called the
    Raiderettes.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    Should it be Cowwimmen?

Because the "Cowgirls" are the only good part of this team......The Sowboys
themselves suck!!!!!!!!!!!

    
    
    "COWPIES" fits the whole kit 'n' kaboodle down there in DallASS.
    
    
    JaKe
    

  I named it Cowboys/Cowgirls because they are both outstanding in their on 
right. The Cowboys happen to be the WORLD CHAMPS and the Cowgirls have allways
been in a class by themselves.   


  Cadzilla2

>     -< Texas women  can't be beat ,all the rest may as well hit the str >-

Oh yeah, I saw me a couple of fine specimens on "48 Hours" last night,
the one that documented the McDuff case.

I have some similar specimens in the back pasture, and every night
they go running when the farmer calls "Come boss, come boss, come boss"......


'Saw

	See Sawman thats the difference twen North and South, In the South
farmers raise crops, not cows. You guys may call'm boss or bossie, we call'm
dooggies  aka get along little doogie or just plan cow, beeves as in Bevo. 

  I'd be a fool to say there aren't any ugly ones, but on the most part
they be quite beautiful. 

 Cadzilla2  ;^)>    
   
   

      I've been to Dallas,  and have known many texas females over the
    years.  There are some babes, some heffs and off course in betweeners.
    
      For the most part, the babes are scab nosed and or push the southern
    draw a little to much (fakes).  The heffs try hard, but o'well and the
    in-betweens are the nicest and more "outgoing".
    
      So I guess I can take 'em or leave 'em......
    
    
      Tim

    
>>      <<< Note 60.40 by 29376::BROWN "Have Perturbations, Will Travel" >>>
>>                     -< Must have been in cow Hampshire!! >-


>>	See Sawman thats the difference twen North and South, In the South
>>farmers raise crops, not cows. You guys may call'm boss or bossie, we call'm
>>dooggies  aka get along little doogie or just plan cow, beeves as in Bevo. 
    
    Yeah, and younz southerners call sheep
    
    
    
    
    DARLING
    
    
    
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

      I thought that was in Wyoming?  Isn't that where button fly jeans
    were intorduced?
    
    
     ;^)
    
      Tj

    
    
             BTW Is Texas still a state, or is it now a suburb of
       Arkansas?
    
       Why do Texas Men steer sheep toward cliffs?
    
    
    Chappy

>	See Sawman thats the difference twen North and South, In the South
>farmers raise crops, not cows. You guys may call'm boss or bossie, we call'm
>dooggies  aka get along little doogie or just plan cow, beeves as in Bevo. 

Actually, the difference is that down there, you raise 'em to kill and
eat.  Up here, we raise them to keep giving milk.  8^)

I'm in Connecticut, where, unfortunately, there are less and less dairy
farms every year.


>  I'd be a fool to say there aren't any ugly ones, but on the most part
>they be quite beautiful. 

I'll give you that, 'cause I've been to Texas, and I seen me some nice
ones.....


'Saw   
   

    
    	Well, we here in Colorado just love to pick on Texans.
    
    	However, Cadzilla speaks da troof!  I lived in Austin
    	for a year and was very impressed.  
    
    Claybone

>    	However, Cadzilla speaks da troof!  I lived in Austin
>    	for a year and was very impressed.  
    
Claybone,

How are them girls in Mississippi.   Are they "raised up on that cornbread?"


'Saw

    
    re.42   Actually I called mine Sweetheart!!
    
    
    re.44  It's been Texarkana for some time now, long before Slick Willie
    came along.
    
    
    I should preface that most southerners do not consider Texas as being
    in the South, even though we did fight for the South in the war tween
    the states.
    
    Back to the sheep,  Texan's don't need no steenkin sheep, we got stump
    broke calves!!
    
    Cadzilla2  ;^)>  

    >> in the South, even though we did fight for the South in the war tween
    >> the states.               ^^
                                 ||
                                 ||
    
		       Cadzilla2,  you sure are old;^)
    
      Tim

Hee Haw is being cancelled.

	Re-1   You got me there Tim, but since my ancestors fought in it. I 
still feel compelled to say we being that both the family and the state were 
present at the time of the conflict.

 Cadzilla2  {;^)>

    Re: Northern vs Southern women.
    
    Yankee women are gruff, fat, rude, curse like sailors, masculine, and
    consider themselves as "part of the guys".  Its no wonder that Playboy
    makes such a big deal when they actually find enough "presentable"
    women to do a spread on girls from northern schools.  
    
    Southern women are made with everything nice.  
    
    Many :),
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

>               <<< Note 60.54 by PATE::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>
>                       -< And now, back to football... >-


Why?  It ain't football season yet, and we just about done talked the draft
to death.

Just as water seeks its own level, so too with the Sowboy, uh, er, Cowboy
note come 'round full circle.....


'Saw

Hugh Millen will likely prove to be as capable a backup to Aikman as Beurline
was.

    Can somebody please help.
    I need documented proof,ie a photocopy of an article etc, that Ed "too Tall"
    Jones played on the defensive line for Dallas
    
    Please send to my Mail Stop:
    
    Adam Thurgar
    SNO1-1/A2
    
    Thanks
    
    Madge

    
    Madge,
    
    	You don't need no steenking photocopy of anything.  Jones
    	did indeed play for Dallas.  You have the written word
    	of me.....
    
    Claybone

If I get a chance, I'll give you a refernce from my football encyclopedia.

It list the teams rosters of all NFL and AFL teams from 1960 on....


'Saw

      I didn't know he had a sex change operation.
    
      Tim for a mild JaKe

    Ed "Too Tall" Jone never played for the Dallas Cowboys, and anaone who
    says he did is a liar.
    
    Anyone who has a photograph of him in a Cowboy uniform is photo- 
    fraudist.
    
    Anyone who has a picture of his name on the Ring of Fame is an airbrush
    artist...
    
    Ed Jones played for the Boston Braves.
    
    Everyone knows that...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

re .63:

	Okay, okay, UNCLE, UNCLE, I give!!!!

	What da hail are you talkin' about???? What a day to leave the decoder 
	ring on the dresser!


	billl

    I was responding to .57, and the rumor that Ed "Too Tall" Jones played
    for the Dallas Cowboys.
    
    Ya gotta nip these things in the bud before they get outta hand!
    
    ;-)
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Been mighty quiet in this note after Monday nights wuppin in
    Washington. Real nice to see the Cowboys lose; my one regret is that
    Washington won.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

It was a no-win situation for a Giants fan, because unless they tied, someone
had to win.  (ugh).

So I sat there, rooting more for Washington than not (hear that Mike C?).


But, as a Crimson Tide fan I did enjoy watching Derrick Lassic.


'Saw

    TCM, us Cowboys fans have been vocal about the loss (See NFL
    conference).  The Foreskins deserved the win while the Dallas
    defense played as did back in the late '80s.  I hope this is 
    a wakeup call for the 'Boys.  Next up are the Bills.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

>    TCM, us Cowboys fans have been vocal about the loss (See NFL
>    conference).  The Foreskins deserved the win while the Dallas
>    defense played as did back in the late '80s.  I hope this is 
>    a wakeup call for the 'Boys.  Next up are the Bills.
    
 
 Consider it a return to REALITY, last year was just a fluke....

 mike

    Mike, what is your favorite NFL team ?
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

 According to TCM it's ABC....
 Tommy says it's the Giants....

 mike
 

    Whats the Big Deal, look at the last few Superbowl winners and how
    they did the previuos years.  Didnt the giants finish like 5-11 after
    there last SB, and how did washington do last year, If I remember
    correctly they got lucky in the Tie Breaking Rules to Edge out GB for
    the Final Playoff spot.  SB winners just seem to have too much go wrong
    during the off season, Between Emmitt Not Signing, Aikman getting Back
    Surjury and Losing Kmart the best Kick Returner in the League to free
    agencie they were bound to have a slow start.  I of course thought
    Emmitt would at least be back with the team by now and they will have a
    tough time repeating without Emmitt.  Imagin any of the Buffalo teams
    of the last 3 years with no Thurman Thomas, I be some of the other AFC
    contenders dream about that all the time.
    
    Dallas needs there wakeup call and needs it quick.  JJ needs to hold
    firm with Emmitt but then again the Boys need emmitt on the Field.  I
    wouldnt put my money on Dallas this week.  Buffalo played an averge at
    best game VS the Patroits but took advantage of every weekness.  I
    thing they will find a few flaws in Dallas's game and will take
    Aikman's best Passing game of his career to shut down Buffalo.  The
    only way to beat Buffalo's 35+pts is to score 40+pts... have to see if
    aikman has all his weapons this week...
    
    Dallas could be in some trouble, No emmitt and a slow start could turn
    into a land slide....
    								MaB

      Jump on the early excuse bandwagon;-)

    Hey anyone who doesnt think Dallas is less a team without Emmitt
    shouldnt be watching football.  Put Hugh Millen as the starting
    QB for the 49ers and see how they work out.
    
    There's a few Key positions in everysport.  Every player is important
    but there's always a few key spots.  For the 49ers it Steve Young, look
    at his salary.  Det has Barry,, Buf has Thomas, etc, etc, etc.  That
    that Key Ingrediant off any on of those teams and there not going to
    beat the other big guns.
    
    Going into the Off season Dallas had a great chance of repeating and
    staying competative, but a team can only fill so many holes, and emmitt
    leaves a big hole :-)
    
    The biggest mistake Dallas made was not going after another RB during
    the off season in case Emmitt did this.  Even Jon Vaugn or Barry Word
    would have been a decent pickup.  The Rams were shopping Cleveland Gary
    around, they should have grabbed one of these players just in case ES
    held out the season.....?????
    
    								MaB

	Being a die-hard fan this is tough to say but I expected them to lose
Monday. They don't have the desire they've had in the past. Hopefully mondays
loss will wake them up. 

	As far as the game went, the rookie Lasic looked pretty good. Nothing
incredible, but no fumbles. The Defense looked to be sleep walking even though
you have to give credit to the Skins O-line,they made the blocks required to win.

	The rest of the NFC should take note of Reggie Brooks, this kid is
going to be a load in the near future. He looks to have those big Earl 
Campbell like thighs and has great leg drive.


   Cadzilla2 

    
    How many times have the teams in the SB met the following season? 
    
    The Crazy Met
    

As near as I can figure from the quick scan I just did, never.

What HAS tended to happen is that a loser from one year will come back
and win the next Super Bowl, but against a different team.   

The Bills are the only team to lose three straight, but Miami went to
three straight, losing the first and winning the next two....


hth,
'Saw

    'Saw I did not mean 2 teams meeting in consecutive SB's I know that has
    never happened. What I meant was 2 teams that met in the SB meeting in 
    a regular season game the following season.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    'Saw I did not mean 2 teams meeting in consecutive SB's I know that has
>    never happened. What I meant was 2 teams that met in the SB meeting in 
>    a regular season game the following season.
    
Oh.  

Well, up through last year I could check that for you at home
tonight, if you like....    


'Saw

    sounds good.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    	Not only do the 'Boyz miss Smith's talent, his holdout is planting
    seeds of dissention on the team.  Jones, after promising not to
    negotiate in public, has done just that while Emmitt only went public a
    few days ago.  A lot of players will never take Jones at his word
    again.  And you have to wonder if the black players will start
    believing Jones is trying to lowball them while taking care of the
    white stars.  Course since it's the Cowboys, who cares.  8^)
    
    				/Don 

    yea, who cares about the Cowboys when you have the mighty Patriots to
    cheer for.  
    
    I thank you,
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    	Hey John, I can take a joke.  Otherwise I would've dumped the
    season tickets years ago...
    
    				/Don

    Actually /don I kinda like the Pats (in the Grogan/craig James era).
    Even thinking of going to one of the games this year.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    
    
    
       HOW 'BOUT DEM COWBOYS????????

    re -1
    
    Still the World Champs like it or not.
    
    

    
    
            Yeah they are also     0-1 soon to be 0-2
    
    
    
    Chappy

    Once again I can write one of the sweetest phrases in sports:
    
    Cowboys lose!
    
    They are 0-2, Giants are 2-0.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
    
               HOW Bout dem Cowboys?????????
    
    
    
    Chappy

The Cowboys are experiencing something that the Giants know well -- that
of winning a Super Bowl and starting the next season in the cellar.

As a Giants fan, I can only hope that's where the Cowboys finish up.


heh, heh, heh,
'Saw

 What the Cowboys are experiencing is how important Emmitt Smith is to this
team. Especially, when everyone is pumped to play the SB champs. I said this
last year when the Pats were contemplating drafting Bledsoe (which, admittedly, 
was a good move) that Aikman isn't and never will be the franchise in Dallas.
Smith took a lot of pressure off of Aikman and without the threat of Emmitt
in the backfield defenses are gonna come right at Troy. If anybody should be
lobbying hard for Smith it's Aikman.

    I think the Smith thing is overrated... I think they miss Wannestadt
    more...
    

In the pre-game interview with Jones, he said that the reason he didn't
want to pay Emmitt a top 10 type salary was that he didn't have to. His
position is that he can and will sign Emmitt to a significantly inferior
salary and he - Emmitt - will like it cause he'd still be getting
millions. I loved that this came prior to the loss to Buffalo.

No doubt, Wannestadt is badly missed as well. Given how much trouble the
Skins had with Phoenix - Rypien wasn't exactly dominating before he left
- and how good they looked against Dallas, one can only wonder how bad
this defense is compared to last year.

Next week's game at Phoenix could be interesting.

TTom

	Jones is getting what he deserves. Maybe he'll get off is rich behind
and cough up the cash. I hope they lose every game till he decides he needs
Emmitt in the backfield. He'll make enough money from the season tickets
to cover.

	Not having seen the game I can't say how they played. I assume the
gave it away on turnovers.  


    Cadzilla2

    Buffalo scored the winning FG off a fumbled punt return. Bills stopped
    Dallas with about 15 seconds left with an interception on the goal
    line.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

I'm beginng to wonder who they miss the most.  Emmitt Smith or Kelvin
Martin?

Jerry

    For only the 6th time since they moved here, Phoenix's upcoming home
    game is a sellout and the blackout has been lifted.
    
    In times past, the Cards laid the golden egg when they had a chance to
    impress a soldout Phoenix crowd.  In times past, they lost miserably
    after a big victory.
    
    It will be interesting to see what happens on Sunday night.  I think I
    speak for most Phoenicians when I say that they must win if they want
    to prove they're for real.

    WOW, after looking at the stats Dallas should be ashamed.  How can
    people say they lost the game becuase NO EMMITT !!! Dallas had alomst
    400yrds total offense about  170 more yrds then buffalo.  They
    outrushed Buffalo (this is NO emmitt dallas vs Thurman and they won)
    They outpassed buffalo and had more scoring oportunities... They blew
    it on Mental Mistakes... I think all of Buffalo's scores came off of
    Dallas Mistakes, the 1st TD was off an INT and the 1st FG off a Fumble
    Not sure on the last FG...This is a tough loss, any loss that you out
    play and outgain your opponent has to be tough.  Next week's is no
    longer an automatic, Phoenix now beleives they can win !!!
    
    Is this game televised up here on the east coast (New England area) ?
    
    							MaB

    TNT, Sunday night...
    

 M_Air, if the 'boys would have had Emmitt they wouldn't have been forced 
to pass as much as they did. Without Emmitt in the backfield Buffalo had
the luxury of double coverage all day. That's why Aikman, who had gone 166 
straight attempts without an interception, threw two yesterday. They also
had 4 fumbles and at least one that I saw was by Emmitt's replacement, Lassic.
Time will tell (or already has) how much Smith means to this team but I really
believe that if they have to rely on Aikman's arm - they're cooked.

      Last nights interview during MNF halftime said this:
    
      Guys, your playing very hard with out me and I know I can make a
    difference, but I'm to greedy to sign for less money, so your on your
    own!
    
      Tim

    nope, more along the lines of, get the owner to pay me what I'm worth.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    If any of you was JJ would you pay Emmitt that kind of money knowing
    that the salary cap kicks in next year ?  I wouldn't ruin the future of
    the team on one greedy player.
    
    BTW, the Cowboys should just forget about Emmitt and play as if he was
    out for the year with an injury.  All this B.S. about the Emmitt factor
    is just an excuse for the last two losses.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

Hail, who knows what might happen nexted year.

If'n I were Jones, I'd pay him in a heart beat. I'd pay him at least what
Barry Foster signed if not what Thurman Thomas makes.  Then I'd worry
about next year.

And that whole next year crap is just that: CRAP. The whole problem with
the scenario is that it's been reported widely that Jones has struck a
deal with Aikman to redo his contract, i.e., give him a raise. To do
that, Jones has in mind the price tag for signing Emmitt and Jones thinks
that he can forcee him to sign.

All of this is all Jones. Finally the players are starting to make money
and he's simply unwilling to pay one of the best the going rate. 

And wait til the Steelers announce they're going to pay Rod Woodson $3
million a year. What's that make Smith worth?

TTom

    
    I'm almost surprised that the league itself hasn't stepped in on this
    Emmitt Smith thing, and straightened it out for the Cowboys.  This is
    the NFL, after all.  They finally got their most popular team back to
    respectability after several years of mediocrity, and now look what's 
    happened.  What a crying, totally preventable shame...
    
    I'm sure that Paul Tagliabue could see fit to approving some sham deal
    with mucho deferred compensation to help the Cowboys work through this
    salary-cap thing.  Sure, maybe Seattle or someone else who had such a
    deal nullified would squawk at first, but think of the greater good.
    David Stern would never have allowed this thing to get this far...
    
    glenn
    

>    I'm almost surprised that the league itself hasn't stepped in on this
>    Emmitt Smith thing, and straightened it out for the Cowboys.  This is
>    the NFL, after all.  They finally got their most popular team back to
>    respectability after several years of mediocrity, and now look what's 
>    happened.  What a crying, totally preventable shame...

The Cowboys are tainted.

Mike Childs will give me a lot of grief about this, but despite the fact
that I'm a true blue Giants fan, who by birthright HAS to despise the
Cowboys, I really respected what they did in 4 years, going from 1-15
to a Super Bowl victory.

But, now, they've sunk to new lows with this tainted splotch on their
record...

    
>    I'm sure that Paul Tagliabue could see fit to approving some sham deal
>    with mucho deferred compensation to help the Cowboys work through this
>    salary-cap thing.  Sure, maybe Seattle or someone else who had such a
>    deal nullified would squawk at first, but think of the greater good.
>    David Stern would never have allowed this thing to get this far...
    
I think they should can Taglibue and hire Vince McMahon.  After all, the
QBs are protected now to the extent that DL's can only blow on them
in the backfield, and the refs are rivalling those of the WWF.....


'Saw    

  >                    <<< Note 60.103 by AKOCOA::J_RODOPOULOS >>>    
  >  If any of you was JJ would you pay Emmitt that kind of money knowing    
  >  that the salary cap kicks in next year ?  I wouldn't ruin the future of   
  >  the team on one greedy player. 
    
    That's just regurgitated JJ BS.  As Aikman said recently, The Cowboys
    are 27th or 28th in payroll in the NFL and even if they sign Aikman AND
    Smith to new contracts, they'd probably be somewhere in the middle of
    the pack, well under any cap.
    
    But hey, if the guy wants to screw up the team (and whats been going on
    in the lockerroom the last few days is an indication that the team is
    screwed up) I'll just (as Bobby Knight would say) "sit back and enjoy
    it"
    
    
    brews

      Emmitt isn't worth 4mil/year.  I do think that a compromise is needed
    on both ends.  Give him 3-3.5/year and shut THEM up.  If he signs,
    chances are he will get hurt and have problems all season, if its not
    season ending.  Look at Bobby no brains Humphrey.
    
      Tim

    While the Cowboys have one of the smallest payrolls they also have the
    league's youngest team. Even though aikman was signed for mucho $$,
    keep in mind he was one of the lowest paid starting QBs in the league
    last year.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    The Cards' Ed Cunningham says Phoenix is preparing for Dallas as if
    Emmitt will be there.  I guess they sense something will happen this
    week.

    Fact #1:  Cowboys have the 4th lowest payroll in the league.
    
    Fact #2:  Cowboys netted over $10 million profit last season.
    
    Add fact #1 to fact #2.  Figure in Emmitt's worth to the team.
    Then decide if you should pay him.  If I were Jones, I'd up my offer
    to $3 million, and start to negotiate.
    
    Even if they ended up paying Emmitt what he wanted, they'd still be
    under the figure I've seen for next year's salary cap.
    
    NAZZ

    	Jones would make a good owner for the Broons...
    
    				/Don

Emmit smith certainly deserves Thurman Thomas and Barry sanders type money. If
the cowboys give it to him they have a problem in that 2 players will be taking
up about 13% of next years salary cap. 

The cowboys have to realize that the NFL (and soon MLB, NBA is already there)
are going into a two tiered salary system where the superstars get huge
contracts and the non-superstars will be payed substantially lower. 

Dallas is going to lose a good amount of their younger players to free agency
when they become eligible because other teams will be able to pay them more.

Jerry Jones should give up on trying to hold onto his whole team and
concentrate on keeping the nucleus around (Smith, Aikman, wr's and linebackers).

If he decides to be penny wise and pound foolish he'll find himself with a nice
flat line pay scale and a quick return into a non-contending team.

The 49ers will have to do the same thing next season when they dump a lot of
medium salaries in order to keep the nucleus (Young,Rice,taylor,Watters,Rathman
and a few defenders) happy. Don't you think the 49ers of old would have gone
out and bought some defense in the free agent market? They are already
preparing for the cap.

Metz

    In the American Football Conference some guy said Emmitt was signed
    tonight on TV and was handed his first check by Jones.  Don't have any
    details.

    Yup it's true.  He received $4M just for signing.  He'll also be in
    uniform on Sunday.
    
    What I'd like to know is how is that possible?  Phoenix's Eric Hill was
    holding out for more $$, was penalized by the team, and can't play
    until game 4.  How is it that Smith plays immediately?  Is it because
    Dallas didn't penalize him?
    
    Mike

    re.116
    
    Smith wasn't a holdout, his contract had expired after last year, so he
    had no contract, at least that's the way I heard it.
    
    JaKe
    

     Makes sense to me

     Does anyone have the terms on this deal  that Emmitt Smith sign.

    
    > What I'd like to know is how is that possible?  Phoenix's Eric Hill was
    > holding out for more $$, was penalized by the team, and can't play
    > until game 4.  How is it that Smith plays immediately?  Is it because
    > Dallas didn't penalize him?
    
    Obviously.  Should it be a league rule that everybody follows Phoenix's
    stupidity?
    
    glenn
    

    
    Yabbut I thought I heard it was ~$14Million for something like 3 years.
    
    I remain,
    fragmentally reporting
    Kev
    

 The deal is being reported as 13.5 million over four years and makes
Smith the highest paid back in the league. Smith acknowledged that he 
might not have gotten the money if the 'boys were 2-0 and not 0-2.

ESPN listed the deal as 4 for the signing and 2+ per year with the actual
salary going down over 4 years. It looks like he'll come up for
renegotiation in a couple of years when he thinks about how he's making 2
and Aikman's making 4. The 2 mil in year 4 just ain't gonna get it, IMO.

TTom

    Hill had a contract, Smith didn't, or Hill got a letter from his team
    to report or else, and Smith didn't?
    

    Here are the figures:
    
    	$4.0 million - signing bonus
    	$3.0 million - this year
    	$2.2 million - 1994
    	$2.4 million - 1995
    	$2.0 million - 1996
    	----------------------------
    	$13.6 million total
    
    The $4 million up front supposedly helps keep Dallas under the salary
    cap for next year.  The $13.6 million makes Emmitt the highest paid
    running back, ahead of Thurman Thomas' $13.5 million.
    
    NAZZ

Article 6865 of clari.sports.football:
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football,clari.local.texas
Subject: Smith ends holdout
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 19:09:45 PDT
Location: texas
ACategory: sports
Lines: 54

	DALLAS (UPI) -- Two-time defending NFL rushing champion Emmitt Smith
ended his holdout Thursday by signing a contract with the Dallas Cowboys
that will reportedly bring him $13.6 million over the next four years.
	Smith is expected to see action, although possibly only limited
playing time, when the defending Super Bowl champions try to end their
two-game losing streak against the Phoenix Cardinals Sunday night.
	``Anybody making that kind of money isn't going to be on the
sidelines,'' said Dallas quarterback Troy Aikman, one of many Cowboys
who expressed frustration at the absence of the team's star running
back.
	Smith reportedly will receive a $4 million signing bonus and a salary
broken down over the next four years of $3 million, $2.2 million, $2.4
million and $2 million. That means by the end of this season, Smith will
have earned $7 million under his new contract.
	Smith signed the contract at a news conference at Texas Stadium and
Jones then signed the bonus check and handed it to the running back.
	``Are you happy?'' Jones asked Smith after the signing.
	``Very much,'' Smith answered.
	``I am, too,'' Jones said.
	Jones said he did not think there were any winners or losers in the
settlement.
	``We are asking Emmitt to sign for four years,'' Jones said, handing
Smith the pen to do so. ``And when he does that, the Cowboys are the
winners. And when I sign this check (the signing bonus), he is a winner.
	``Emmitt would have liked to have had more money and I would like to
have paid less money. We came to a compromise.
	``Emmitt represents a cornerstone of this franchise. We know his
contribution and we know what he can do for the future. Emmitt,
throughout these negotiations, has been as efficient and as classy as he
is on the football field.
	``We are not only excited him about having him back, we know it is
special for the NFL to have him back on the field.
	``We have come up with an agreement that is everything I hoped it
would be. The structure of the contract is that it has a lot of front
end dollars. Normally, that is poor business, but it is great under the
current system (in which a salary cap will be in effect next year).''
	Smith said he had tried to stay in condition during the holdout, but
that backup running back Derrick Lassic should start when the Cowboys
play at Phoenix Sunday night.
	``I've been training and I've been running,'' he said. ``I will wear
pads for the first time since January when I go to practice tomorrow. I
think Derrick Lassic should start against Phoenix. I think there is a
possibility I could hurt the team more than I could help it if I play.
	``I haven't talked to the coaches at all. I don't have the slightest
idea what the game plan is for Sunday. But, yes, I could learn it.''
	The Cowboys have a week off after the Phoenix game.
	``I'm very glad to be back in Dallas,'' Smith said. ``I'm back in the
city where I want to play ball. Hopefully we can get this thing turned
around and get back on the winning track.''
	Over the past two seasons, Smith has gained 3,276 yards and scored 30
touchdowns.
	Other NFL clubs could have offered Smith a contract prior to the
start of training camp, although the Cowboys had the right to match any
offer. But no other teams made an offer to Smith.

    I hope Barry gets more...
    

he deserve it!!!

    Plus, he's keeping it low key.  No holdouts, just going about his job
    and letting management "take care of him".
    

    
    Phoenix, per the NFL-NFLPA agreement, gave Hill and Massey an ultimatum
    to report, or they'd have to miss extra games, whereas the Cowboys did
    not do that for SMith.  There were about 6 players who were given the
    ultimatum, two on the Cards.
    
    boC

    >>Phoenix, per the NFL-NFLPA agreement, gave Hill and Massey an ultimatum
    >>to report, or they'd have to miss extra games,      ^^^^^^
                                                          ||||||
    
    
    Gin is playing fer the Cards??????   I tell ya, whatta woman.
    
    JaKe
    

    
     Who won last night .?

Cowboys won last night.

hth
billl

     Dallas held on to win 17- 10

    The press is really negative here on the Cards, but I think it was a
    slight moral victory for them.  The Cowpokes played a near perfect game
    (i.e., no turnovers, no dumb mistakes, etc.).  Anyone would have a
    tough time beating them when they're on.
    
    The Cards were in it to the end, only lost by 1 TD, despite dropping
    several passes.  I would consider poor play calling a factor too.  Why
    they don't pass to Hearst out of the backfield more is beyond me.  Why
    stick with the soft zone on D when they rarely stopped Dallas on 3rd
    down and Aikman was shredding them by throwing underneath.  I know
    Phoenix was short on corners (injuries & holdouts), but if it doesn't
    work, you should fix it.
    
    I agree that these aren't the same old Cards despite losing to Dallas
    here over the last 3 years by the scores: 17-10, 16-10, and 17-9. 
    They're just more talented right now.
    
    Mike

    
    I think the reason the Cards aren't passing to HEarst out of the
    backfield is probably due to the fact that he just signed. They are
    probably working on him learning the running plays first.
    
    boC

    BoC, they can't afford to wait.  They still have 8 games to win.

    
    	Yabbut with the 3 alarm fire at Cowboy stadium yeserday, will there
    be a impact on Sunday's game?  Aren't they supposed to play at home?
    
    I remain,
    also wondering how it started - the stadium was closed
    Kev
    

    
>    I remain,
>    also wondering how it started - the stadium was closed
 
	The way I hear it, JJ was mixing up the chemicals to die the grey
 streaks out and mixed the wrong stuff..........
    

	Well the 'Boys sloshed thru with a lackluster (except for E.Smiths 237
yards) win over the Eagles 23-10. Not much to say Philly drove a few time then
blew up and punted.  Smith closed the door with a 62 yd TD run in the 4th. 
They are now tied with the Giants after the loss to the Jets( Darn Jets cost
me in the local pool). Five straight wins. This week should be a good test.
I'm sure Danny boy will want to whup his old team, especically since Tom L. is 
no longer around to test him. 


 Cadzilla2 

	Not having had the pleasure of viewing the game I cannot say how it 
went other than the 31-9 score. Aikman to Harper seems to have been the big
combination of the day for the Cowboys. Aikman went down in the 3rd with a 
Hamstring pull, and Garrent went 5-6 for 34 yards in a backup appearence. The
local rags says the defense stuffed the Giants most all day. Must have since
they were held to 3 FG's from Treadwell. 



   	On another note, Tom Landry was inducted the the Cowboy's Ring of honor.
 The fans have waited for some time for this is to happen, but the JJ@ takeover
 put the ceremony on hold for a few years.It weas fitting that the Giants be in
 town  since he  played and coached the defensive backs for the Giants. And
 having protege "Danny Boy" Reeves coaching the losers didnt hurt .


  Cadzilla2

	I have one question for Dan Reeves in this game. Its the 4th quarter
and your trailing 31-6. What good is a !@#$%^& field goal going to do for
you? What's the difference between a 25 and a 22 point deficit. You still
gots to score 4 times, with or without the field goal.

maybe he thought he could get a 2 point conversion? :-)

The Crazy Met

>>   <<< Note 60.142 by SNAX::ERICKSON "Please walk under my tree stand...." >>>

>>	I have one question for Dan Reeves in this game. Its the 4th quarter
>>and your trailing 31-6. What good is a !@#$%^& field goal going to do for


I wondered the same thing myself.  Maybe he's just real optimistic, and
figures that they'll beat Dallas by 23 or 24 in the season finale and
it will figure in a tie-breaker.

Jerry

	Well Bernie has made a big hit in Big "D". Words out that his found
his way to Grennville Ave(a.k.a. Sin alley) and made apperances in a few spots
sporting a shimmering blue and silver outfit with calf length white boots. 
The SMU coed's are totally bummed since Bernie is now making it to all the hot
spots that they usally dominate. 

	
   Cadzilla2

    ps He went 13-19 for 100+ yards as the Boy's stop the hopeless cards again
   20-15.

    Atlanta upset Dallas 27-14. What did Atlanta do? or was it a matter
    of Dallas being out of sync all game?
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Emmitt Smith left with an injury in the first half.

      Excuse meter on

 "how about dem Cowboys?"  hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 I saw JJ in an interview after the game and he looked totally lost.
 I think he'll be retiring soon. I think the rift between him and Jones
 is going to bust wide open....

 mike

	No excuses here, Boy's got whupped plan and simple. I wonder what 
 happened to the defense? 


   Cadzilla2

    -1,
    Looked like they played in a different uniform in South Bend on sat.
    
    

    Nah, it couldn't have anything to do with Emmit being injured.  We all
    know he ain't that valuable to the Cowboys.  It was because Aikman was
    still out.

    re -1
    
    Actually Mac, to be honest, it had more to do with the poor play of the
    defense than either Aikman or Smith.  Dallas was out-coached and
    out-played yesterday.  Plain and Simple.  The majority of the burden
    falls on the defensive side of the ball.  Atlanta held the ball for +24
    minutes in the first half alone!!!
    
     - Bob

>    Actually Mac, to be honest, it had more to do with the poor play of the
>    defense than either Aikman or Smith.  Dallas was out-coached and
>    out-played yesterday.  Plain and Simple.  The majority of the burden
>    falls on the defensive side of the ball.  Atlanta held the ball for +24
>    minutes in the first half alone!!!
    
     This is the truth.  Atlanta basically won by dominating the Dallas
     defense.  Dallas looked listless even with Smith in the game -- they
     just didn't come to play.  Moreover, they couldn't get the ball to
     Irvin -- pretty good dfensive line pressure, and Sanders was all over
     Irvin (1 catch for 5 yards until late 4th quarter).

    Without Aikman thowing the ball the Defense concentrated on Emmitt.
    So then Emmitt got hurt and the Dallas Defense had to spend the entire
    day on the Field... You take away the #1 QB and #1 RB from any team
    in the NFL and see how they do against Atlanta...  this is a team that
    came withing 1 TD of beating San Fran(At full strength) and beat NO
    outright, dont take atlanta too lightly.  Houston has Cleveland this
    week (I hope they win) and then have Houston and SF.  Take away Moon/
    Gary and Young/Watters and Atlanta's back at .500 :-)  but that wont
    happen, theyll have to beat houston and SF at full strength :-).
    
    Dallas is in real trouble now with HFA, I dont see them getting HFA
    thru the playoffs at this point, to tough a schedule, too many INJ.
    But if they play there cards right they could be full strenght for
    the playoffs regardless if they have to play on the road...
    
    								MaB

>> Houston has Cleveland this week 

	Cleveland @ Atlanta 11/28
	Pittsburgh @ Houston 11/29

>> Dallas is in real trouble now with HFA,

	Left the decoder ring at home.  What's "HFA"????



	billl

    
    
     Home Field Advantage??
    
    

    
    What a finish to an already wacky game.  Reminds me of the old Raider
    days.
    
    Marc
    

Leon Lett does it again.....

Quite an entertaining game for Thanksgiving.....


'Saw

 How about them Cowboys???  hahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa

 Looks like JJ's car got a flat on the way to the SB........

 mike

Well, that was one wacky finish, old Leon's ear must have been numb, cause the
other Cowboys were hollering "Leon let the ball go" but Leon must have heard
"Leon GET the ball in the snow".



Great Giant finish on Sunday.


Mike

      So they pay Lett hundreds of thousands of dollars to be stupid!

    
    Couldn't have happened to a better team, or even a better player. 
    Whatta game.
    
    brews

    It sure was great seeing ol' Jimmy Jones strutting and clapping on the
    sidelines in that cashmere coat with that huge grin on his face, and 10
    seconds later knowing he's be crying like a stuck pig.  Where were the
    cameras after the Lett boo-boo?  I woulda loved to have seen ol' Jimmy
    then!
    
    NAZZ

                                 
>    It sure was great seeing ol' Jimmy Jones strutting and clapping on the
>    sidelines in that cashmere coat with that huge grin on his face, and 10
>    seconds later knowing he's be crying like a stuck pig.  Where were the
>    cameras after the Lett boo-boo?  I woulda loved to have seen ol' Jimmy
>    then!
    
    I'm tellin' ya, it made the holiday for me too.  Thanksgiving Day, the
    Dallas Cowboys on the verge of victory, Troy and Leroy hugging, Jerry 
    Jones boogieing around on the field... The only thing that could
    have been better would have been to see Richmond Webb or someone put
    a helmet on ol' Jerry.  I believe that post-Sullivan/Millen
    this is completely legal, permitted within the rules... ;-)
    
    Could NBC and CBS rig something like this up for every Thanksgiving as
    a public service for the holiday enjoyment of so many millions?  Or
    have they already, /Don?  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

Leon shoulda just Lett it be.....


It was great.  I think all over America there were Dolphins fans who
turned to each other to say "Well, we gave them a good game", and in
the next instant were celebrating victory....

I mean, this makes Jim Marshall's wrong way run look tame....


'Saw

    The ending overshadowed an excellent performance under horrible
    circumstances by DeBerg. Shula is also the master of clock management.
    If FG attempt is taken with :12 left instead of :15 then Miami has no
    chance for a second kick.
    
    What a turn of events: Dallas loses a game they should have won.
                           Giants win a game they have lost.

    	Lett's made a coupla very obvious and visible mistakes:
    
    	1. Showboating in the Super Bowl. Beebe brought things
    	   back to reality.
    
    	2. Going for the ball against Miami.
    
    	What's wrong with this guys brain? Seriously.
    
    	Scott

    
    
    	Yabbut even in the premature celebration, wasn't the snow on da
    field something great to watch?  
    
    	Mah only dissapointment was the lack of grass stains on their
    clothes!
    
    I remain,
    amused by all the field clearing for da field goals too!
    Kev
    

    
    re filed clearing for field goals:
    
    It seemed to me these guys were more concerned with clearing the area
    around where the ball was to be spotted, and neglected where the plant
    foot was going to be. After the 1st miss, it seemed obvious that
    footing was an issue on the kicks
    
    brews
    
    
    

    
    re: 1st field goal slip
    
    Yabbut I heard that Dick Buttons gave the kicker a 7.4 on da Ice
    Capades rating system for his excellent form and the "bounce" he took
    when his butt hit the turf!
    
    Peggy Fleming declined to comment.....
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    a troo fan of natural conditions
    Kev
    
    

     Dem conditions are only natural in Buffulo, Green Bay,
    Chicago......etc.

    I don't have a copy of the charter of the NFL, but I don't think it
    says in there anywhere that football was developed to be played in the
    middle of a snow & ice storm.

    When they cancel games because the air temperature is below zero before
    the wind chill, I'll have more sympathy about playing on ice or snow.
    Didn't Flutie leave a playoff game a couple of weeks ago because he had
    no feeling in his hands from frostbite?  And I'm supposed to have
    sympathy because there's ice on a rug?  Do they cancel rugby matches
    because of rain or temperature?  Can you check the charter?

    
    
    Hokey was developed as a_indoor sport????????????
    
    Whaaaaaa????
    
    
    Cite yer source MtM - please
    
    I remain,
    thinking there's a hallugen(tm) gas loose in HLO
    Kev
    

    
    >>Rugby was developed in Great Britain which has a relatively moderate
    >>climate. 
    
    Oh, so "moderate" is what describes 50-60 degrees and shitty, eh????
    
    JaKe
    

    I thought it was on Canadian ponds...
    

English weather can be worse than ours sometimes when you factor everything
in.   A damp 50F, with a 10mph breeze can be pretty bad......


'Saw

    
>>           <<< Note 60.180 by CAM3::WAY "You can't polish a turd" >>>

>>English weather can be worse than ours sometimes when you factor everything
>>in.   A damp 50F, with a 10mph breeze can be pretty bad......
    
    Tell me about it.  I lived there for almost 3 years.  Weirdest weather
    I've EVER seen.  Never seen a fog over here that could even begin to
    compare with the fogs we used to get over there.
    
    Plus, when I first got there, around the end of May in 1975, it was
    pretty nice, 60's, some sun(blink and you might miss it).
    
    June 2 of '75, the morning started out like any other, about mid 50's,
    cloudy, and then the temp started to drop, by noon, it was snowing, IN
    JUNE, and snowed about 5 inches by late afternoon, then it stopped, and
    started to warm up again, by 8 pm, the snow was melted, and it was 60
    degrees out.  Weird, Fall, winter, and spring in the same day.
    
    JaKe
    

    
      Those are real intersting stories, girls. But they have absolutely
     nothing to do with Dallas, the Cowboys or football. 

    
    >>  Those are real intersting stories, girls. But they have absolutely
    >> nothing to do with Dallas, the Cowboys or football. 
    
    BFD Tommy, why should the Dall-Ass Cryboy note be any different from
    any other note in here???????????????????
    
    Lighten up!!
    
    (8^)
    (8^0
    (^)
    (|)
    
    JaKe
    

Who you callin' a girl, tommy?


Okay, weather in the south of England is a little more normal, and closer
perhaps to what we're used to, but still not close to what a team from
Texas, say, the Dallas Sowboys are used to.....


'Saw

    Professional football was organized in cities like Canton, Chicago
    and Green Bay.  Not Miami, LA, Dallas and Houston...
    

9 months out of the year I live in 50 degree weather, rain and a 10 MPh wind...

No way, No how does it compare to a 20 degree day with 10 mph wind. The former
is pleasent, the latter is called bitter cold by most folks...

But football was meant to be play outdoors and you can't get much worse weather
than what can happen in Green Bay in November.


Metz

    
    
    Yabbut and I'd gladly (as in in_a_heartbeat) trade MtM to the Brits,
    if only to stop him from freekin moving around half of the stuff in dis
    here lockerroom!
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    hoping a Brit takes me up on this offer!
    Kev
    

    
    >>I remain,
    >>hoping a Brit takes me up on this offer!
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Even THEY ain't that stoopid!!!!
    
    (8^0
    
    JaKe
    

    
    >>Was it meant to be played outdoors or was it just played outdoors
    >>because the technology didn't exist to make it possible to play
    >>indoors?
    
    Football was meant to be played in the mud and rain and snow and the
    like, not in a wimpy girly-mon dome.  And not on carpet, either.
    
    JaKe
    

    
  >> Who you callin' a girl, tommy?
    
     Any sissy pants who thinks that "a damp 50F with a 10mph breeze can be
    pretty bad". 

    I like the spin of having to adjust to whatever climate for which they
    are faced.  I like the extra dimension, the fact that coaches have to
    modify game plans, that better skilled players have to adjust and may
    even lose a god-given edge for which they constantly rely upon.

    I like the blood, mud, and snow!

    Chip_GSH_Bach

    
    >> Any sissy pants who thinks that "a damp 50F with a 10mph breeze can be
    >>pretty bad". 
    
    Wow, I never saw any 50F's, I've seen some 36C cups, but never 50F's.
    
    And I'm sure if I did, SOMETHING would be damp pretty quickly.
    
    Schnorttt Schittt Schleppps
    
    JaKe
    

    Sort of like baseball should be played indoors?
    

Other than hoops I have a tough time thinking of another sport that was
designed to be played indoors...

When these sports were invented it was to get people outside and to enjoy the
outdoors...Hoops was invented to give gym classes a game to play while they
were unable to go outdoors because they were constrained by time limits and
other factors....


Metz

    
>>outdoors...Hoops was invented to give gym classes a game to play while they
>>were unable to go outdoors because they were constrained by time limits and
>>other factors....
    
    Weren't hoops invented by some farmer who was bored and hung up a
    basket on the side of his barn and couldn't get his sheep to be
    submissive anymore and alla his kids had moved away, so there was
    nuthin better to do...what's that....this is the description ofthe
    average W.Va. farmer.......nevermind.
    
    JaKe
    

    Arena football was designed for indoors.  

    
    >>  <<< Note 60.200 by 7806::ASHE "I liked Bill Laimbeer - so there!" >>>

    >>Arena football was designed for indoors.  
      
    Whatta joke that was they played on us, huh??
    
    JaKe
    

A damp 50F with a light drizzle, and a 10mph wind can kill ya -- if you're
not dressed properly.


I used to fight fires in all kinds of weather, but hot coffee was never
so welcome as an early morning in mid-August, at the Board of Ed fire.
I'd been inside already when the Lt. told me to "take a blow", so I headed
outside, got out of my coat, and within 15 minutes I was shivering like
there was no tomorrow -- being soaking wet in the low 60F temps with about
a 10mph breeze.  No one wanted the ice water -- they all wanted the hot
coffee.


That being said, if Green Bay could play in the Ice Bowl in 1967(8?)
and win it, then it's okay to play in temps that cold.

Bud Grant would never let the Vikings have heaters and I never saw it
affect any of them.....


'Saw

    England has nothing on New England.  I've seen Winter, Spring, and Fall
    on the say day in my hometown as well.  It snowed the same week that I
    graduated from St. Johns (the real one in Shrewsbury), which the 3rd
    week of May.

I've never been to England (but I kinda like the Beatles), but I've heard 
said "the coldest winter I've ever spent was summer in England".

                                  
> I've never been to England (but I kinda like the Beatles), but I've heard 
> said "the coldest winter I've ever spent was summer in England".
    
    Yes, and Jack London said the same of San Francisco.  What it boils
    down to is that the residents are not used to uncharacteristically 
    weird conditions and thus become wimps about it.  I've attended a 
    couple of those legendary killer night games in Candlestick, and yes, 
    it was bad, but in imo nowhere near as bad as sitting in Fenway in
    April with the temp around 30F in a freezing drizzle.  And of course
    even that does not compare with outdoor December football, but it's 
    also much less convenient to wear a parka and get tanked up on 
    antifreeze for a baseball game...
    
    glenn
    

One of the coldest baseball games I've ever been to was opening night
in Beehive Field in New Britain for the Red Sox about 10 years ago.

It was cold, with a little bit of drizzle, but not enough to call the game.

It was so cold, one right handed batter lost the bat, and it flew into the
3rd baseline reserved seats where I was sitting -- the bat bounced about
two rows in front of me and continued left and up, into general admission.

All 300 of us staunch fans soundly booed the bat boy, who was instructed
to retrieve the bat from the fan who recovered it, but we cheered when the
fan was given several baseballs for his efforts....


'Saw

Rats. 

Somebody said something about England and I missed the chance to wade in with
some fiercely patriotic waffle about us being the best and you all being big
girl's blouses. 8-)

I must be losing my touch. Would you accept a late entry (or alternatively sort
out your clocks so you keep proper times)?

The weather here in England, especially in my beloved Grimsby, would (and has)
reduce less hardy types to tears. It's not so much the fury of the storms, but
the incessant never-ending eternal drip-dripping of the radioactive drizzle.
It's like Chinese water torture.

But I love it.

Mike

      You all haven't been to colorado in June.
    
      You see lightning while its snowing and the sun is shining between
    the cloud bursts, all at once!  Its very wild and cooool....  Happens
    with those freak June arctic blasts...
    
      The motto,  always be prepared for 90f - 32f...
    
      Tim

  >>  I've never been to England (but I kinda like the Beatles), but I've
  >>  heard  said "the coldest winter I've ever spent was summer in
  >>  England".        
    
   > Yes, and Jack London said the same of San Francisco. 
     
    Actually it was MArk Twain who first made the remark, but it isn't
    unlike the Brits to claim it for their own.  8^)  The problem in
    Candlestick is that the weather is like that all summer long, and
    doesnt clear up until October-November (right in time for football).,
    whereas in NE, by mid-May you have relatively decent weather.
    
    brews   

>>>>>
Actually it was MArk Twain who first made the remark, but it isn't
    unlike the Brits to claim it for their own.  8^) 
>>>>>

If we had claimed it, it would have been a lot better off in our hands. Besides
Mark Twain wouldn't have been able to make the remark if we hadn't invented your
language, culture, etc. 8-)

I'll fight this one to my last breath.

Mike (Made in England)

>Mark Twain wouldn't have been able to make the remark if we hadn't invented your
>language, culture, etc. 8-)

Well, Mike, you know what they say about V1.0 of any product  8^)


Where's Grimsby?  Up north?


'Saw

At the southern border of Yorkshire (on the east coast of England) there is the
Humber river, and where the Humber joins the great North Sea you will find
Grimsby. Grimsby is part of Northern England (which is the best bit), and also
includes such famous English tourist attractions as Cleethorpes beach (ranked in
the top 3 dangerous beaches by the E.C. but still a great tourist attraction)
and Immingham Fish Docks. Ahh, the heady smell of putrefying Haddock and
paralytic Norwegian fishermen. It takes me back. 8-)

Grimsby produces the world's finest fish and chips but you've been deprived of
that blessed foodstuff on your side of the pond haven't you?

There is a famous (and entirely unfair) joke about Grimsby based around the fact
that the Humber river is traditionally called the Arsehole of England, so what
does that make Grimsby.

		South Yorkshire	\	The North Sea
				 \
			__________\
		The Humber River
			-----------
				 X \
			   Grimsby  \
				     \

You should come one day. I'll show you the sights. Just don't follow the sailors
down dark alleys.

Mike

>Grimsby produces the world's finest fish and chips but you've been deprived of
>that blessed foodstuff on your side of the pond haven't you?
    
    It's also an Elfin John song on the Caribou album.

Really?

It must be a classic. 8-)

Where can I get hold of a copy?

Mike

    I think it's time to continue this thread over in 27.*

	Has this become the new junk note, or the weather channel update?
 Can we get back to the topic of Cowboys Football. The weather that took
 place last thursday is not uncommon for the area. It happens at least once
 or twice each winter. I doubt many will beleave this, but Dallas winters
 with the normally high humidity can be quite bone chilling. 30F in Dallas
 compares to about 10F were in CX land.


  Cadzilla2

    Well I've never been to Spain...
    
    Mark.

    yabbut the odds of a Miami - Dallas game being played
    in the snow are rather small.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
    	Yabbut, JD part II :
    
    
    	"...Pack over 'boys  ;^)
    
    
    I remain,
    spreading JD's remains
    Kev
    

JD mus be on some very powerful hallucinigens today.

The Crazy Met

>    Nah, it's just the NY Giant fan inbred hatred of the Cowboys coming
>    out.

One of the greatest rivalries in the history of the NFL....

     I wonder why?

I'd love to see JD's prophecy come true, but I don't think it's in the cards.
The 'boys look to have just too much offensive fire power for the Pack.

Oh well.

=Bob= 
who hates the Cowboys from the old Lombardi vs. Landry days

>
>     I wonder why?


If you're being serious....8^) here's what I think:

My guess is that Landry used to play for and coach the Giants (he was
a DB for them, and I believe a defensive coach on the staff when Lombardi was).

It's my contention that from that coaching staff, two great rivalries
were born -- Landry and the Cowboys vs the Giants, and Landry and the 
Cowboys vs the Lombardi-led Packers.

'Saw

    	The Giants, because of DAN REEVES coaching ability, is the only
    team that *could* upset the Cowboys.  I'm sure Mike Childs agrees.
    
    				/Don

    Hold on a sec there 'Saw,
    
    Cowboys-Jints rivalry one of the best in the history of the NFL?
    C'mon... only recently, since LT came to the Giants and Parcells
    built that franchise back. Let's look at history.
    During the Jints early 60's pre-dominance in th NFL, if ya discount
    the champeen clutch Pack(bear wif me =Bob=), the Cowboys were a mere
    "W" on everyone's schedule.
    
    Middel-late 60's, Jints take powdah while Cowboys arise. Yeah, so
    you had some faux Giant rallies in the late 60's with Tarkenton,
    Homer Jones, Tucker whatshisface, Bobby Duhon etc, but these Jints
    were just pretenders while the Cowboys soared. In the 70's 'nuff
    said. Hey, I'm no Cowboy fan and I used to love the Giants, but
    facks is facks. 
    
    Even tho Landry was an ex-Jint, there ain't no rivalry till the
    mid-80's IMO.
    
    THE rivalry in the 60's/early 70's was Ex=Jint Landry vs. ex-Jint
    coach Lombardi.
    
    MikeL
    
    

Giants still owe the Packers!!!!!!!! I could work up an easy hatred for the
Pack again next week should by some miracle the road teams win.....

mikey

>    Cowboys-Jints rivalry one of the best in the history of the NFL?

Yes.  If you were a Giants fan or a Cowboy fan you'd know that.


>    C'mon... only recently, since LT came to the Giants and Parcells
>    built that franchise back. Let's look at history.
>    During the Jints early 60's pre-dominance in th NFL, if ya discount
>    the champeen clutch Pack(bear wif me =Bob=), the Cowboys were a mere
>    "W" on everyone's schedule.

The Cowboys had a fast rise to prominence.  They were 0-11-1 in their
first year in 1960, and by 1966 they had won the Eastern Conference
Championship as the Giants had sunk somewhat.  But the games were still
a rivalry.

    
>    Middel-late 60's, Jints take powdah while Cowboys arise. Yeah, so
>    you had some faux Giant rallies in the late 60's with Tarkenton,
>    Homer Jones, Tucker whatshisface, Bobby Duhon etc, but these Jints
>    were just pretenders while the Cowboys soared. In the 70's 'nuff
>    said. Hey, I'm no Cowboy fan and I used to love the Giants, but
>    facks is facks. 

And the fact is that for any Giants fan, or any Cowboy fan at the time,
two of the most important games all year were the Giants-Cowboys matchups.
I lived it, I know.

    
>    Even tho Landry was an ex-Jint, there ain't no rivalry till the
>    mid-80's IMO.

That's because you aren't a Giants or Cowboy fan...
    
>    THE rivalry in the 60's/early 70's was Ex=Jint Landry vs. ex-Jint
>    coach Lombardi.
    
I won't argue this, but logically speaking the Giants were an easy "W"
for a strong Packer team also.  


Giants-Cowboys has been a big rivalry since the early 60s, and many
former Cowboys and Giants (Bob Lilly comes to mind instantly) who would
tell you that....

JMHO,
'Saw    
    

    One of my friend's from Canada tells me that although the Bruins
   fans may consider Montreal to be their big rival, Montrealers don't
   even think twice about the Bruins. The Montrealers consider Quebec
   their chief rival. This Cowboys-Giants rivalry was equally one-sided
   for years. The Cowboys were one of the most successful teams in foot-
   ball and the Giants couldn't get out of their own way. The Giants fans
   may have considered the 'Boys to be their big rival but Cowboys fans
   probably looked forward to games against New York as sure wins. I'd bet 
   that longtime Cowboys fans consider the 'Skins to be a bigger rival than
   New York because the Skins have been a steadily successful team for
   a lot longer than New York.

>Giants still owe the Packers!!!!!!!! I could work up an easy hatred for the
>Pack again next week should by some miracle the road teams win.....

In recent years, that rivalry has turned NASTY.  Lots of fights break
out when they play.

Probably the sweetest moment in the past bunch o' years was when safety
Tom Flynn was waived by the Packers during the 1986 season, picked up
by the Giants.  In the penultimate game that year the Giants played the
Pack in Giants Stadium on a Saturday afternoon.

Flynn, in the football equivalent of baseball's unassisted triple play,
blocked a punt, recovered the ball himself, and ran it in for a TD.
The end zone camera showed a man who was absolutely beaming.....


'Saw

>    One of my friend's from Canada tells me that although the Bruins
>   fans may consider Montreal to be their big rival, Montrealers don't
>   even think twice about the Bruins. The Montrealers consider Quebec
>   their chief rival. This Cowboys-Giants rivalry was equally one-sided
>   for years. The Cowboys were one of the most successful teams in foot-
>   ball and the Giants couldn't get out of their own way. The Giants fans
>   may have considered the 'Boys to be their big rival but Cowboys fans
>   probably looked forward to games against New York as sure wins. I'd bet 
>   that longtime Cowboys fans consider the 'Skins to be a bigger rival than
>   New York because the Skins have been a steadily successful team for
>   a lot longer than New York.


Not the Cowboy fans I knew.  Yeah, they tended to consider the Giants
easy pickings some years, but they also rued a defeat to the Giants
more than any other team in the league.

Cowboys-Redskins was a big one in the 70s, they were successful true.
But success doesn't make a big rivalry.

The Bruins-Whalers has been a big hockey rivalry, and the Whalers have
had very little success in recent years.  But both sides get up for
it -- as do the fans, believe me.

It's kind of like RedSox-Yankees.  That rivalry has gone on for years,
despite the see-saw success of the teams.  

Success has nothing to do with it.

'Saw

  >> Not the Cowboy fans I knew.  Yeah, they tended to consider the Giants
  >> easy pickings some years, but they also rued a defeat to the Giants
  >> more than any other team in the league.

     My b-i-l is a hardcore 'Boys fan. I know for a fact that he has always
     hated the Redskins and could have cared less about the Giants. Even now,
     he doesn't get as worked up about the Giants as he does the 'Skins. The
     damn 'Skins couldn't beat anybody this year yet they dogged the 'Boys
     and it just opened those old wounds for my b-i-l. Now that the Giants
     have been a team to be reckoned with for sometime he gets a little
     anxious about the games but it's not a deeply emotional thing like 
     with the 'Skins.

  >> The Bruins-Whalers has been a big hockey rivalry, and the Whalers have
  >> had very little success in recent years.  But both sides get up for
  >> it -- as do the fans, believe me.

     It's called a geographic rivalry. That's why Quebec is Montreal's rival.
     That's why the Yanks are Boston' rival. When you have their fans next
     door it's only natural that a rivalry would develop. The Giants and 'Boys
     may be division rivals but whatever rivalry there is, it certainly isn't
     on the level of the Raiders-Broncos or Skins-Boys.

>     My b-i-l is a hardcore 'Boys fan. I know for a fact that he has always
>     hated the Redskins and could have cared less about the Giants. Even now,
>     he doesn't get as worked up about the Giants as he does the 'Skins. The
>     damn 'Skins couldn't beat anybody this year yet they dogged the 'Boys
>     and it just opened those old wounds for my b-i-l. Now that the Giants
>     have been a team to be reckoned with for sometime he gets a little
>     anxious about the games but it's not a deeply emotional thing like 
>     with the 'Skins.

Well, I guess the Cowboys fan clan must have different septs like 
Scottish clans do.  Most of my friends who're Cowboy fans felt just
the opposite...



>     It's called a geographic rivalry. That's why Quebec is Montreal's rival.
>     That's why the Yanks are Boston' rival. When you have their fans next
>     door it's only natural that a rivalry would develop. The Giants and 'Boys
>     may be division rivals but whatever rivalry there is, it certainly isn't
>     on the level of the Raiders-Broncos or Skins-Boys.

Well, I disagree, but I'm not gonna waste my time arguing about it.
It just ain't that important......  A rivalry is a rivalry.  When
we start classifying, comparing and contrasting rivalries, I'm starting
to think we've got too much time on our hands.....8^)


'Saw

George Allen used to rent rooms to spy on Landry. The Skins' fans had the
audacity to hold a parade in Dallas on gameday when the skins were high
and the sowboys low. I definately feel that the Skins/Cowboy rivalry
is the worst in the NFC East. All the teams hate one another in the East
and all have fans who consider each team the individual rivalry.

If I had to venture an opinion I'd say the Giants fans most hated rivals
would be the Packers if they still plated em twice a year. I'll never
forget never beating them in the early sixties. Crushed my heart....

mikey 

          
    Cowboys-Redskins is indeed the big rivalry from my experience, living
    in both Texas and DC territory.  I too suspect that the intense 
    anti-Giants feelings come from closer to New York, and have grown in
    recent years.
    
    I was kind of surprised to hear the thing about Quebec with Montreal,
    as Quebec is more the johnny-come-lately analogue to the NFC East
    comparison.  Sure, there's a cultural thing there within the province 
    that makes for a rivalry, but I thought those great Montreal fans had 
    a larger sense of history than that (and not just with the Bruins, but
    Toronto and the rest, too).  Then again, they're tearing down the Forum...
    
    glenn
     

    I've been a Cowboys fan since 1971.  Here in the heartland, the biggest
    Cowboy rival has always been the 'Skins.  These teams truly hated each
    other.  Simply because both were dominant teams in the NFC.  The
    stories of Diron Talbert and Roger Staubach are legendary.  In the
    mid-80's when NY became very competetive, the Giants became more of a
    rival, but the 'Skins were still there.  Nothing gets the fans in Texas
    stadium more fired up than the 'Skins coming to town, likewise I'm
    certain in RFK.
    
    - Bob

    You're a Jint fan 'Saw, I'm not, so if you say the Giants-Cowboys are a
    big rival, you're entitled. However for this non-fan of both teams, I
    don't consider it a recognizably heated rivalry. Isn't the
    Giants-Eagles quite heated?
    
    MikeL
    

    'Skins-'Boys
    Raiders-Chiefs
    Bears-Packers
    Rams-Niners
    
    are a few that come to mind.  the Raiders had quite a few going with
    several teams in their hey-day.

Raiders-Broncos

The Crazy Met

    New England Patriots vs. Boston Patriots
    
    

Okay, so I'm f-ing wrong....

    
    	Oh, lets see here, I've been a Cowboy fan since....well....game 8.
    
    	I look forward to seeing Aikman going down in this years playoff 
    and having Bernie lead the team the rest of the way to the superbowl.
    Not that I want to see Aikman get hurt, mind you.
    
    	Go Bernie!

    
    You ain't wrong, 'Saw, that's just your experience and it may differ
    from the experiences of others.  This rivalry business can go
    overboard, too.  From experience I can state that I've rarely seen
    anything as absurd as Washington DC's total absorption with the
    Redskins.  The Cowboys in Dallas may compare but I don't think the 
    Giants in New York does, and that's not a slight.  We're talking 
    about slavish coverage during spring mini-camp, TV and print, over 
    which rookies might break onto the special teams.  A year like this 
    past one is a death sentence, where someone or something must be held
    responsible, excoriated and exterminated (this time around it happened
    to be Petitbon...)
    
    glenn
             

    Another Giant fan chiming in...
    
    For me, the Giants-Dallas games top the rivalry list, followed
    closely by the Giants-Redskins.  Growing up and rooting for the
    Giants through the death march known as the 70's, the games
    against the Cowboys and Redskins were always tops.  The Eagles 
    joined the list after THE FUMBLE, but this year wasn't the same.
    It's hard to build up a lot of antimosity against Bubby Brister
    unless you're a Steeler fan or remember seeing his mom after
    every play during the Denver game.
    
    Mike

    'Saw,
    
    As glenn said, you ain't wrong. Perspective. Hey, if Giants fans
    say it's their top rivalry, who are we to question.
    
    Just tell us to shaddap (oh you did that already)
    
    MikeL
    

    
 >> We didn't question that it's the Giants' fans top rivalry.  We
 >> questioned that it was the NFL's biggest rivalry.

    Actually, he said something like it was "one of the great rivalries in
    the history of the NFL".  Given 'Saw's fondness of hypernole, we could
    have let it slide but then this wouldn't have SPORTSnotes if we did.

    There's something extremely philosophical about this rivalry stuff.  I
    just can't figure it out!
    
    - Rope

Yeah, I just said it was one of the great rivalries.

I didn't preclude Dallas-Washington, and I ranked it up there with GB-NY
too.

Of course, GB-NY hasn't struck me as much since I like both teams a lot.

So that makes my rivalry comments POPB(tm), and that folks is SURELY
SPORTS.....

Oh yeah, all of yunz, SHADDAP!!!!!


8^)

PS  Tommy, it's not hyperbole, it's just a "gush"....

GB-NY? Don't you mean GB - Chicago?

How can Dallas - NY be one of the greatest rivalries in sports when it isn't
even the top rivalry for the Cowboys? Dallas - Washington means a lot more than
Dallas - NY....and it continues to grow...

Look who was the only win for the Boys when they were truly atrocious a few
years ago? Look who was one of the few teams the Skins managed to beat this
year? They always get up for each other...

Don't let the Montreal fans fool you...The rivalry with the Bruins is heated
because so many fans from Boston migrate up to the games in Montreal. I was up
their one weekend when the bruins were playing and the bar we were at (must
have sat around 1,000 people) had half bruins fans...Quite a few skirmishes
that night...

Metz
 

>How can Dallas - NY be one of the greatest rivalries in sports when it isn't
>even the top rivalry for the Cowboys? Dallas - Washington means a lot more than
>Dallas - NY....and it continues to grow...

Why can't it be?  Is there some committee out there that ranks these things?
Is there some celestial table of Official Greatest Rivalries of All Sports?

Or is it just enough that the players and the fans get all heated up
over the games?


Oh, I forgot, this is sports, where we all have to deal is absolutes, and 
everything has to ranked and adjudicated.

Geez, how anal can we get?


At any rate, it's been a rivarly for as long as the 'boys have been around.
If it ain't great to all of you sports egg-spurts, well, then I guess my
little ol' rivalry will always be second best.

I can live with that.....


'Saw

 >> At any rate, it's been a rivarly for as long as the 'boys have been around.
 >> If it ain't great to all of you sports egg-spurts, well, then I guess my
 >> little ol' rivalry will always be second best.

    Sometime back in the mid-80's the Giants dropped a crucial game to
    Dallas that had playoff implications. One of my co-workers, who was 
    a big Giants fan and active in some New England Giants fan organization,
    came into work practically in tears, muttering incoherently about finally
    getting a chnce to do it to some one who has been doing it to you for
    years and letting the chance slip away. Of course, I was my usual under-
    standing, consoling self and I drilled him with both barrels all day.
    The point is, that while Giants fans may have felt a lot of animosity
    and bitterness towards the 'Boys, Boys fans had no reason to feel like
    wise because they always kicked your ass.

Whatever.....

    
> Why can't it be?  Is there some committee out there that ranks these things?
> Is there some celestial table of Official Greatest Rivalries of All Sports?
    
    Nope, it's just like pornography, we can't define it but we know it 
    when we see it... ;-)
    
    glenn
    

                          -< Now shaddup 'Saw... ;-) >-

    
>>> Why can't it be?  Is there some committee out there that ranks these things?
>>> Is there some celestial table of Official Greatest Rivalries of All Sports?
    
>>    Nope, it's just like pornography, we can't define it but we know it 
>>    when we see it... ;-)
    
   and attack and condemn it without concern for the author's feelings....

 :^)   "your unforgettable, simply unforgettable"

 mike    

    
    I think that the Giants-Cowboy rivalry for Cowboys fans living in New 
    England is bigger than for the rest of the Cowboys fans at large.  And
    'saw has probably talked to more NE Cowboy fans.
    
    brews
    
    

	Well here's one stat that can be written off or have it added that 
the Cowboy's are the only team to ever win the divison and conference
after losing first two games. 14 out of next 16 is not to bad.

 Cadzilla2


                <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< SPORTS >-
================================================================================
Note 9.560             The National Football League (NFL)            560 of 1364
HBAHBA::HAAS "Primus Caverns Guy"                    12 lines  13-SEP-1993 12:52
                                -< eliminated >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was definitely a_illegal hit with the helmet. It was aggressive but it
shoulda been flagged.

Meanwhile, the following teams have been eliminated from the Super Bowl
Derby. No one has won it having lost its first 2 games: 

New England, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Chicago, Tampa Bay,
Atlanta, and

			DALLAS.

TTom

yabbut Dallas still has to win the SB.

The Crazy Met

     I believe that should read "No team who has ever lost their first two
    games has ever gone on to the SuperBowl."   Just like last year, "no
    team with the leagues leading rusher has ever been to the Superbowl"
    
    I could be wrong.

    RE back a few,
    
    Ain't it 15 of the lasted 16 fer the Cryboys????  Did they not finish
    13-3 or am I wrong??
    
    JaKe
    

    Jake, they finished 12 - 4.  Went 0-2 at beginning of season.  Won
    7 straight, lost 2 straight, and have now won 7 straight.
    
    - Rope

    
    I was mucho impressed with the Sowboys yesterday. San Fran just pales
    in comparison. I don't think I've ever seen a team with such dominating
    athletes as Dallas, on both sides of the ball.
    
    Nothing against Buffalo, but they can mail it in.. and it has nothing
    to do with this supposed NFC>AFC crap. Dallas is simply haid and
    shoulders above everybody else. Mail it in boys. 4 in a row for
    Buffalo.
    
    MikeL
    

    -1, HAHAHA. I'm looking fer Moe, Larry, Curly Tailors....
    
    MikeL
    

    I have to agree with what MikeL said in .266. The Cowboys are far too
    athletic for Buffalo and the Bills will join Minny and Denver as 0-4
    teams while Dallas joins San Fran and Pittsburgh as 4 time winners.
    
    And Dallas should make it 5 SB's next year if the key guys stay
    healthy. (Most are signed)

    I stand(shakily) corrected.
    
    JaKe
    

    I don't know guys.  If Aikman's healthy, I agree.  But if Bernie
    starts, I'd give the Bills more than a fair chance of winning.  Kosar
    just can't avoid a pass rush anymore.  
    
    - Rope

    I don't know, I figure the Bills have a shot at winning the game. Last
    years Superbowl had a ridicules amount of turnovers for one team (9?)
    and Dallas capitalized on most of them which lead to the lopsided
    score. I hadn't seen this since the infamous Blooper Bowl. Could it 
    happen again? Yea, I suppose its possible. 
    
    With very few turnovers the game should be much closer, however, Dallas 
    has proven to me that they don't actually need a whole lot of turnovers 
    to blow a team out of the game as was shown in the NFC Championship game. 
    No turnovers and excellent execution despite only one turnover for SF 
    and they still smoked em. Can they do it again? I sure hope so.

Both games pretty much went as I predicted them to. Dallas had too much offense
for the weak defense of San Fran. You can outscore most of the mediocre teams
over the course of a season but you're not going to outscore the great ones.

KC needs to get a few quality receivers before they can truly contend for 
anything, If they had some receivers that knew where the soft spots of the zone
were they might have been able to put up a fight but the young guys they have
are too inexperienced to figure out what the coverages were and they displayed 
the butter fingers  that plagued them in the first half last week throughout
the whole game this week. By the time this group of receivers gets experienced
Montana will be hanging them up. I'm  suprised Marty didn't have Marcus going
into the middle of the field just behind the linebackers and getting the
intermediate pass.....but Marty has never impressed me as a game day coach
anyway...

Dallas will defeat the Bills again because they have too many offensive options
for Buffalo to stop and their offensive line can handle anything that the
buffalo defense throws at them. The only thing Buffalo has going for them is
that they only have 1 week off so JJ can't dissect them over the additional
week....then again all he has to do is look at the film from last year...

I'd like to see Buffalo win but it's not going to happen...

Metz
   

    True Mac, they have a great offensive line.  But what happens if the
    Bills decide to bring a couple of extra guys on the blitz?  Aikman has
    the mobility to avoid the blitz and the arm to get the ball downfield
    to Irvin or Harper who probably be in man coverage with the blitz.  Can
    Kosar do the same?
    
    - Rope

      re-1
    
      No Kosar doesn't.  Didn't Aikman run for a few 1st downs yesterday? 
    Bernie can't do that unless he has 20 clear yards.
    
      Tim

    
    	I beg to differ on the Kosar deal.  Kosar showed that he had what
    it took to win that game.  On 3rd and 19 he made the big pass to get
    them the first down.  Then in the same drive on another 3rd down, he
    hits Harper for the big TD with the blitz comming.  Notice how San Fran
    held off on the blitz durring that drive...why...because of the running
    game.  You really can't blitz *every* down with a running attack like
    that.  What I didn't like in that game was when there was just over 3
    minutes left and Dallas just took the knee.  Earliest end to a game I
    ever saw.
    
    	Go Bernie!
    
    		WOOF!
    

    I dont know how you can say 1 Turnover doesnt make a difference, theres
    no way of telling... Dallas scored, SF Scored, its 7 to 7, dallas
    scores to go up 14-7 and then the crucial turnover which lead to a
    Dallas 21-7 lead, there's no way of predicting what would have happend
    if SF marched down the field and tied the game 14-14 and took 6-8Mins
    off the clock ?  Had that happened and dallas still scored 1 more to
    take a 21-14 lead at the 1/2 the first SF TD could have tied it and
    then aikman went down....
    
    I know it was just 1 Turnover but it was a crucial turnover that lead
    to a TD and fired up an already hot team and gave dallas the home crowd
    advantage and gave them momentum that lead to another TD in the first
    half and a 21pt lead at halftime......  If Buffalo scored 1st and then
    Dallas throws 1 interception that leads to a buffalo TD and a 14pt lead
    its over, I dont think either team will come back from a 14+ deficit in
    the superbowl.....
    
    								mab

    
    re:  -1
    
    	Yabbut I think that, despite the content of Mr. Brooks note, there
    is a definite call for the ' Cadet to do a further review!
    
    I remain,
    eagle eyed!
    Kev
    

Couple o' commas wouldn't hurt either....

[many 8^)]

'Saw

    
    
    	Yabbut and I'd like somebody to 'splain howcum he capitalized
    the "T" in turnover (a couple o' times) but did the "d" in Dallas
    in lower case too?????
    
    I remain,
    I guess having the time today to do a bit o' dissecting....
    Kev
    

>    	Yabbut and I'd like somebody to 'splain howcum he capitalized
>    the "T" in turnover (a couple o' times) but did the "d" in Dallas
>    in lower case too?????
    
Maybe it's kind of like German, where you capitolize some nouns (or all
nouns, not just proper nouns)....


>    I remain,
>    I guess having the time today to do a bit o' dissecting....
>    Kev

Paging Dr. Farley, Paging Dr. Farley, report to pathology, stat.....


'Saw
    

    Hey I remain The Grammer Champ of the Notesfile :-)
    
    I no have time for dis stuff....
    							MaB

>    Hey I remain The Grammer Champ of the Notesfile :-)
>    
>    I no have time for dis stuff....
>    							MaB

I'm rolling!

8^)

  >  Hey I remain The Grammer Champ
    
    Did you learn to spell from your Grammer or your Granpa?

>  >  Hey I remain The Grammer Champ
>    
>    Did you learn to spell from your Grammer or your Granpa?


Hate to pick nits, but I believe it's Grammar.....

     I thought it was Grama :-)

  >  Hate to pick nits, but I believe it's Grammar.....
    
    That was my point

>  >  Hate to pick nits, but I believe it's Grammar.....
>    
>    That was my point

I wasn't talking about points, I was talking about nits....8^)

There are certain grammatical war zones that the 'Cadets dare not venture.  We
simply do not have the firepower to contend with the likes of MairyB and Hal.  

It can be likened to the US in Somalia - a true no win situation, with the 
'Cadets likely to take some heavy casualties.

In light of that, we declare MairyB and Hal notes offical Grammar Free Zones.

The 'Cadet

>In light of that, we declare MairyB and Hal notes offical Grammar Free Zones.


Sounds like the 'Cadets need someone like Patton, George S. to assist in the
fight to liberate the world from the horrors of grammatical errors...


'Saw

    I thought it was "The Elements of Style" by ....
    
    No not Ogden Nash
    
    not e.e. cummings
    
    

"Elements of Style" by Strunk and White
OR
"The Chicago Manual of Style"

I dunno which one is better, ask NAZZ, he's and editor...

    -1,
    Seems like the Cadet needs poleeecin' also.
    
    MikeL
    Card carryin' member of the and/an militia
    

    Right, E.B. White - see I was getting close.
    
    btw - I may be in wrong note but a good time was had by all at CGR last
    night.
    
    Walt Dropo came by and shared some memories.

    Hey I feel left out, no cadet for my notes, this is prejudice.
    Im entering an offical complaint to the Mod's.
    
    But hey how many people can honestly say the double'd there english
    to math score on the SAT's :-) (Managed a decent score on the 3rd try
    in both categories).
    
    And note the above message is well written and has no spelling errors
    (Well I hope not).
    						M AIRastotal B :-)
    						(I need something funky)

       <<< Note 60.298 by CTHQ::LEARY "Corporate Telecom Technology
    Solutions" >>>
                  -< Yabbut who, besides Dropo,showed up?? Agganis?? >-
     
    
    There was one gent who I inquired, perhaps sir YOU are Mike Leary
    
    He left in a huff and I never did find out where he got that fine zoot
    suit

    Just wanted the .300

>              -< Yabbut who, besides Dropo,showed up?? Agganis?? >-

Dropo is from Connecticut and years ago my Dad knew him.....


'Saw
    

    Everyone over the age of 50 seems to know Walt Dropo who after leaving
    baseball got around a lot, especially down around south of Boston.
    
    I ran into him a few times, very sociable fellow (I didn't talk to him
    personnally but friends all seemed to know him).
    
    The book "Fenway" by Go.... has a few pages on the walt dropo saga - a
    meteoric career if there ever was one.
    
    He was involved in the blockbuster Hoot Evers trade in '52 which shook
    the foundations of boston baseball, blasting bastions of bosox bubbles..
    (Frank - finish that for me :-)

>    Everyone over the age of 50 seems to know Walt Dropo who after leaving
>    baseball got around a lot, especially down around south of Boston.

My dad knew him when he played.  There were two other Dropo brothers but
I can't remember their names.  They played, but I don't believe they
ever made it to The Show.
    
    
    
>    (Frank - finish that for me :-)

I'd like to, but I don't feel very well today.  I think I'm coming down
with something and the only thing that keeps popping into mind has to do
with yellow-green phlegm.....


'saw

   What the hell does any of this have to do with the SB bound Cowboys?

So Tommy, what's your point??

The Crazy Met

    we sure do drift off the subject around here.
    
    I thought 'boys would be 15 points tho I see from earlier note the line
    is rising and will probably peak around 12.
    
    Aikman status along with Emmitt's shoulder must have kept the line down
    to start as vegas is nervous about that.
    
    All I could think of Sunday was 49-64 Yankees, 57-69 Celtics and '64 - 77? 
    UCLA Bruins.
    
    And another thought - rejected at the cgr last night - Perhaps only
    next team with chance to dethrone Dallas is our own Patriots

    If Buffalo loses this one, will they spell Billls with 4 L's?

Even if Dallas wins this year they are nowhere close to the 3 teams
you mention in .306.

1970's Steelers won 4 in 6 years. Pack did that in the 60's. 49ers were
close to that in the 80's. 

Browns 50-55 - 6 championship appearances in a row is incredible.

The Crazy Met

    tcm,
    	Obviously their record does not compare, even at two straight. 
    What I was seeing was a potential dynasty in the making because of the
    confidence of both offense and defense along with the willingness of
    the entire team to perform the role assigned.
    
    	They seemed to be able and willing to respond to whatever the 9ers
    could dish out.
    
    	I was a sub-conscious Yankee fan of the Berra dynasty and was
    devasted by the 63 dodger sweep but the methods of the three teams
    involved seem to be in the process of emulation by jj etal.
    
    

Bill the Elder,

You were probably at the Red Sox-Yankees series ending the 1949 season and
knew then that they would continue to dominate for 15 more years, right??
Inquiring minds and all ...

The Crazy Met

Anyone catch the Freudian slip by JJ last night?

I heard an interview with him on my local sports and he
said "Buffalo has lost 4 Super Bowls in a row"...

I wonder if that's a guarantee????


'Saw

    The train of thought in earlier replies is comparing Dallas success, of
    which I have heard commentary such as "head and shoulders above the
    rest of the nfl" with previous dynasties.
    
    So Tcm, keep that nose to the grindstone...
    
    btw - Would I ever have loved to be at Yankee Stadium for those two
    games which marked the end of sports as pure entertainment in America.
    
    but that will have to be another note

    JJ never guarenteed a win. He said to the radio anouncer that in his 
    OPINION the game would be close for about 3 quarters but that the Cowboys 
    would wear out SF and kick their behinds in the 4th quarter. He got the
    quarter wrong but the outcome correct.

    But when asked about it again, two days later, and given an opportunity
    to recant, he DID guarantee a win.
    
    brews

     He never used the word Guarantee any more than he use the words "kick
    their butts or asses. He said "Behinds" which is a lot more tame. The
    media tends to take things out of context. I saw 4 or 5 different news
    casts the day he called the radio station and not one of them stated
    the total conversation, just bits and pieces and with words JJ never
    used. My guess is they were trying to raise their ratings and piss the
    niners off.

>     <<< Note 60.316 by ELMAGO::BENBACA "I've lost it. Help me find it!" >>>
>           -< Maybe so but not during the call to the radio station >-
>
>     He never used the word Guarantee any more than he use the words "kick
>    their butts or asses. He said "Behinds" which is a lot more tame. The
>    media tends to take things out of context. I saw 4 or 5 different news
>    casts the day he called the radio station and not one of them stated
>    the total conversation, just bits and pieces and with words JJ never
>    used. My guess is they were trying to raise their ratings and piss the
>    niners off.

     I've seen a press conference in which he did use the word "Guarantee."

re: .313

Bill the Elder, you should have noticed by now that when MtM gets into
one of his "moods" he is generally off the platform.

The Crazy Met

    >>I've seen the press conference in which he did use the word Guarentee
    
    	Yes, but his call to the Radio station which started all this he
    never used that word. He simply said "We will win". 

>>    If Buffalo loses this one, will they spell Billls with 4 L's?

	Hey, I resemble that!


	the REAL billl

    
    
       B.I.L.L.S
    
    
    Boy I Love Losin Superbowls
    
    
    
    Chappy

    
    How bout naming an alltime Cowboy team ? Who was the best that ever
    played for this team? How bout just listing the O'ffense and the
    D'efense?

    
    
    
         How about Not!!!
    
    
    Chap

                      <<< Note 60.322 by GIAMEM::HOVEY >>>
                             -< Cowboy Dream Team >-

    
>>    How bout naming an alltime Cowboy team ? Who was the best that ever
>>    played for this team? How bout just listing the O'ffense and the
>>    D'efense?
    
    Okay, here's my shot.  It's a little difficult since this crop of
    Cowboys is so young.  Here goes:
    
    QB - Roger Staubach
    RB - Emmitt Smith
    FB - Calvin Hill
    WR - Bob Hayes
    WR - Drew Pearson
    WR - Michael Irvin
    TE - (Ditka wasn't there long enough) - Billy Joe Dupree or Novacek
    
    O-Line - Blaine Nye, Rayfield Wright, Eric Williams, Nate Newton, John
    Fitzgerald, etc.
    
    DE - Ed Jones
    DE - Harvey Martin
    DT - Bob Lilly (Greatest Ever IMO)
    DT - Randy White
    
    Linebackers:
    	- Chuck Howley
    	- Lee Roy Jordan
    	- Thomas Henderson (When Sober)
    
    DB's - Cliff Harris, Charlie Waters, Thomas Everret, Mel Renfro, 
           Everson Walls, etc.
    
    Punter - Danny White (Like versatility of QB back there!)
    Kicker - Rafael Septien
    
    - Rope
    

    Geepers creepers,
    That's all we need, an all-star Cowboy team. Get my arsenic willya.
    Now someone will venture over to note 35 and start one there....
    
    MikeL
    
    

If someone does what MikeL suggests then someone will have to get
Cyanide and arsenic!

Mod, .325 should be hidden since it is dealing with religious issues.

The Crazy Met

    rep .325
    
    Who's the coach?

Somebody call Lorena.  We have to put a stop to this......

     But it just started...

    Who's the coach?  Fascinating question.  I'm gonna say Landry because
    he truly was innovative on both sides of the ball.  However, I'd like
    JJ to be an assistant in charge of Motivation!
    
    - Rope
    
    P.S. - Keep those Ballots coming! - Your Vote Counts Too!!!
    

    The only thing I didn't like about Landry was that damn "flex" defense.
    

The only thing I liked about Landry was his penchant for losing big games,
at least much of the time.

The Crazy Met

    re .333
    
    That's quite a reach isn't it TCM?
    
    - Rope

>    re .333
>    
>    That's quite a reach isn't it TCM?
    
 Don't think so Rope. He was 2-3 in SB and the packers kicked them twice in
 the old NFL Championship game so I'd say he's 2-5 when the biggest prize of
 all was on the line......


 mikey

and he lost a number of NFC championship games (SF, Washington, Rams, more?)

The Crazy Met

Yabut I'm not much for remembering what happened in what year, but Landry's 
Cowboys were godo longer than any other franchise I can remember.  They were
in champeenship games as early as the mid/late sixties, all the way until
a couple of years before he was canned.  If you are competitive for longer than 
anyone else, you have more chances to win and lose.  

Seems like a successful franchise to me.  And remember, I always hated the 
Cowboys.

re: .337

traitor! hang 'em up!

The Crazy Met

    As much as I loathe the Cowgirls, I agree with Bob.  The Pats, Jets,
    and any other perennial loser would love to have such a legacy.

	Well here's to hoping they win the next 10 SB's and making all you
guys hate them that much more.  Ah yes here's to the Cowboys, the team losers
love to hate.

  Cadzilla2 

    Ahhhhh, the good ole days are back!  I love it when everyone is ranting
    and raving about the 'Boys.  I was all by my lonesome when they were
    3-13, 1-15, etc.!!
    
    - Rope

    Thats true. You know when that starts to happen the Cowboys are doing
    very well indeed. However, during those down years I used to get lots
    of grief most every day. Why? Because I ware this thingamajig around my
    neck that holds my badge. I made it from shoe string with the the word
    "COWBOYS" and a star stamped all over it. It is visible all the time. I 
    trashed the one that had "DIGITAL" stamped on it. Both had the letters 
    stamped in blue so they look the same until you get close enough to read 
    the letters.
    
    Ben

	How bout them Cowboys!! 


The 2nd half adjustments blew the Bills away. I think the fumble return 
for the TD rattled them some much they fell apart. That with some poor play
selection lead to their demise.

	It was plan to me that Dallas wanted it more in the second half. Both
line dominated play in the second half. After the go ahead TD was scored the
Bills D stiffined, but could not change the momentum back to their side.  

	This team is 17 point better than anybody in the league. Having beaten
the 2nd best in both conferences by the same 17 point margin. They also broke
the old go 0 and 2 start and never win/play the SB jinx. 

	This is the first game I ever watched and cheered for both teams.
Bills inability to score the gimme TD at the end cost me about a grand.

	

Cadzilla2

You too! I was teed off that the Bills didn't get that last TD. 10.5 was
a perfect number for exactly that situation. Least it didn't cost me any money.

The Crazy Met

    So will Johnson be back to work for Jones?  When you have a coach take
    over a 1-15 team and win 2 SB's in 5 years, any owner just has to give
    him complete control.  Johnson is arrogant, but he certainly has proven
    that he can walk the talk.
    
    Who are the free-agents?  The skill positions seem to be set (and
    young).
    
    Where is Norv Turner going?  Everyone keeps talkin Redskins.  Locals
    say Phoenix should go after him.  Of course, that assumes Bidwill has
    half-a-brain and that people want to come here to work for him.  As a
    rookie coach, it's important to have some talent, and I'd guess Phoenix
    has that edge right now over Washington.
    
    Lot's of questions have to be answered before we start talking a
    possible Dallas dynasty.

    >                  -< Jones and JJ are buddies from way back >-
    
    Dallas media personnel that are interviewed locally say that they don't
    get along and that they've been involved in a game of 1-up-manship over
    the past year.

    
>    Lot's of questions have to be answered before we start talking a
>    possible Dallas dynasty.
    
    You mean like, Are the Cowboys one of only five teams to win
    consecutive Super Bowls?  The answer is yes.
    
    glenn
     

    >        -< The Cowboys are at stage "already done", not might/will do >-
    
    true but next year they have a shot to distance themselves from
    everyone:
    
    - could be the first to 3-peat in the Super Bowl
    - could be the first to win 5 SB's altogether

    I agree, ego(s) are the root of the jj-jj thang
    
    I was with my wife had her friend's with kids etal and the 11 year old
    daughter, not particularly interested in sbowl or at all knowledgable
    wanted to know who the guy in the suit was.
    
    Informed that was jones, the dallas owner her retort was
    
    "Bet he's got a bundle on this game"
    
    And from the anxious expression on his face with Dallas defending a 17
    point lead with 6 minutes to go (and the 10.5 spread) I think she hit
    the nail on the head

umm, the NFL would probably be very unhappy with an owner/coach/player
betting on a game they are involved in even assuming they bet on their
team to cover.

Say Dallas had a 7 point lead, 4th and 1 at the 13 with 5 minutes left.
Well normally at that point you kick the filed goal and make it a 10 point
lead assuming the other team will not score twice. If the spread was 10.5
and a coach had a bet down that would influence them to go for the first
down. The team fails to make the first down. Other team takes over down
by a TD and plenty of time left to tie the game with one score.

The Crazy Met

I gotta think Jimmy would be really interested in taking over an expansion
franchise and proving to the world he can  do this again with out the aid of
Jerry...He'd  jump to the panthers in a second if they would give him complete
control...

Is dallas under any duress due to the salary cap for next year?

Where, oh, Where is Mr Brydie :-)

Metz

    Jimmy Johnson has 5 years left on a 10 year contract w/ Dallas.  The
    contract is IRON CLAD.  There is absolutely no way Johnson can leave
    Dallas unless Jones lets him out of the contract.  That ain't gonna
    happen.  If Johnson wants to coach NFL football over the next 5
    seasons, it'll be in Dallas.
    
    - Rope

    
>    Jimmy Johnson has 5 years left on a 10 year contract w/ Dallas.  The
>    contract is IRON CLAD.  There is absolutely no way Johnson can leave
>    Dallas unless Jones lets him out of the contract.  That ain't gonna
>    happen. 
    
    Why won't it?  When egos clash decisions don't necessarily have to make 
    sense.  I'll be very surprised if Jimmy Johnson is coaching the Cowboys
    over the entire next five years.  When a guy attains a certain level of
    leverage and power, which is exactly what Johnson has done, you can't 
    just make him do your bidding because you say so.  Johnson says he'll 
    just quit if he doesn't want to coach the Cowboys anymore, and I think 
    he's dead serious about it.  Then the issue becomes the extent of Jones' 
    pettiness, where as we saw in the Emmitt Smith negotiations he will not 
    come out the winner in the court of public opinion in a protracted 
    battle with Johnson...  
    
    glenn
    

Seems to me that a whole lot more is being made over the two JJs
than is warranted.  Sure they have their differences and their egos
get in the way a bit, but I haven't seen much more than speculation
and tabloid-style journalism to suggest that there's a real rift.
And Jones made a big deal about having Jimmy for 5 more years in
yesterday's post-game awards presentation.  Johnson sure didn't
do or say anything to indicate otherwise.

To all of you Cowboy haters out there, this is just wishful thinking.
For now, Dallas is on top, and the owner, coaches and players are
hot topics.  There's no shortage of sensationalistic reporters who
will embellish a story to get a byline.

All of this, of course, is just one man's opinion.

Jerry

> Seems to me that a whole lot more is being made over the two JJs
> than is warranted.  Sure they have their differences and their egos
> get in the way a bit, but I haven't seen much more than speculation
> and tabloid-style journalism to suggest that there's a real rift.
> And Jones made a big deal about having Jimmy for 5 more years in
> yesterday's post-game awards presentation.  Johnson sure didn't
> do or say anything to indicate otherwise.

    I was reacting to quotes from Johnson yesterday, printed in
    today's paper:
    
    "I was asked by someone this week if it was 100 percent I would be
    coaching the Cowboys next season.  I told him I couldn't say that. 
    I've been wrapped up in this team all year.  There is great intensity
    every day.  I want to step away from it for a few days and decide if
    this is really what I want to do.  I have always said, if I am not
    enjoying something as much as I think I should then I wouldn't do it
    anymore.  This year has not been as enjoyable as last year..."
    
    The speculation (at least the more responsible stuff) going on is being
    fueled by Johnson himself.  No one else is taking Johnson's comments 
    seriously, that he's going off for a few days and may indeed decide
    that he will not return? 
    
    glenn
    

    Yeah, I guess I could see JJ retiring at this point.  The man is like
    Dick Vermiel and Joe Gibbs; has only one speed - fast.  I don't think
    he wants to coach another team.  However, he may feel like he has
    nothing left to accomplish at this point and why continue to punish
    himself.  He's won at every level quite convincingly.  I suspect after
    a week to ten days off that he will start to get pumped for the
    prospects of being the first team to ever win 3 straight.
    
    - Rope

>    Yeah, I guess I could see JJ retiring at this point.  The man is like
>    Dick Vermiel and Joe Gibbs; has only one speed - fast.  I don't think
>    he wants to coach another team.  However, he may feel like he has
>    nothing left to accomplish at this point and why continue to punish
>    himself.  He's won at every level quite convincingly.  I suspect after
>    a week to ten days off that he will start to get pumped for the
>    prospects of being the first team to ever win 3 straight.
    
Discussions on WFAN yesterday afternoon dealt with a scenario where
Jimmy Johnson leaves the Cowboys to go to another team, to see if he
can build it from the ground up without Jerry Jones help.

It was interesting discussion at any rate.


As a football fan and longtime Cowboy hater, one thing that completely
blows my mind is the speed of someone like Nate Newton.  Nate's carrying
a lot of extra baggage, when you come right down to it, yet the man
is fast and mobile.   That is really something.

I remember Joe Jacoby from the Redskins chasing down an Eagles LB
from behind, straight on, no help with an angle, after an INT one time.
From some of what I've seen of Newton et al, they rank right up there.

'Saw

Quick question:

	What's the name of the Cowboy from the Air Force Academy who
	flew A-10s in Desert Storm?


'SAw

>>      <<< Note 60.359 by CAM3::WAY "Horseshoes and hand-grenades, man" >>>

>>	What's the name of the Cowboy from the Air Force Academy who
>>	flew A-10s in Desert Storm?

Chad Hennings.

Thankee.....

    It might also be noted that Chad Hennings was the Outland Trophy winner
    for the top collegiate lineman his last year at Air Force.
    
    - Rope

	Just because Jimmy Johnson has 5 years left on his contract. It
doesn't mean anything. The NFL has a rule that states if a person has
the opportunity to be promoted in position, they can leave there
current team. Jimmy Johnson can leave Dallas if he becomes General
Manager/and Coach. This is why Offensive/Defensive coordinators are
allowed to leave there team's to become head coaches. Do you think JJ
liked losing Wannesdat? Now he is losing Turner this year.

Ron

     Well, all you anti Dallas fans just keep right on hoping this happens.
    We know its what you all want.

How may Cowboy fans does it take to change a lightbulb?



Three.  One to change the bulb and two to argue about whether Emmitt
Smitt or Troy Aikman is more important to the offense.

			or



Three.  One to change the buld and two to argue about whether Emmitt
Smith or James Washington should be Super Bowl MVP.

Jerry

    Gee.... I thought it took 50.... 1 to change it and 49 to rave about
    how they are the best lightbulb changers ever.
    
    

	Please Boycott this Note. 


  Cadzilla2

    re  -1
    
    Eat your hearts out

Yawn.......

    Yea, can't say as I blame you, after what the niners did to the jints
    I'd be bored too.  :-)

>    Yea, can't say as I blame you, after what the niners did to the jints
>    I'd be bored too.  :-)

Is that the best you can do?

I wasn't really bummed about that defeat because I remember the last time
the Giants got their asses kicked like that in a playoff and what happened
afterwards.


Saw a real Cowboys Bandwagon Jumper today.  He was on his way into
Carry-In Service.  He had the disease pretty bad -- brand new Cowboys
parka, brand new Cowboy's hat.

I was tempted to track him down and ask him to name two of the four
Cowboys on the DL in the Ice Bowl championship game, but I was on my
way to lunch......  My guess is he couldn't have done it....


'Saw

>>     <<< Note 60.373 by CAMONE::WAY "Horseshoes and hand-grenades, man" >>>

>>I was tempted to track him down and ask him to name two of the four
>>Cowboys on the DL in the Ice Bowl championship game, but I was on my

You mean Willy, Lilly, Jethro and George?

Jerry

>>>I was tempted to track him down and ask him to name two of the four
>>>Cowboys on the DL in the Ice Bowl championship game, but I was on my
>
>You mean Willy, Lilly, Jethro and George?

Well, duh, I knew YOU could answer the question....8^)

I mean, even I could remember Lilly (Bob) and Pugh (Jethro).  I also
remember who it was that made The Block and who it was that scored to
get the Pack to the Super Bowl.

But I gurantee you, this guy wouldn't have known -- no way....  Just a
bandwagon jumper.  Why, I bet he even had a 49ers jacket at home too.  8)

>Saw a real Cowboys Bandwagon Jumper today.  He was on his way into
>Carry-In Service.  He had the disease pretty bad -- brand new Cowboys
>parka, brand new Cowboy's hat.
    
    still had the price tag on them too, probably.

>I was tempted to track him down and ask him to name two of the four
>Cowboys on the DL in the Ice Bowl championship game, but I was on my
>way to lunch......  My guess is he couldn't have done it....
    
    or ask them their all-time leading scorer.  That's always messes them
    up.

    Like the Giants didn't have their share of bandwagon jumpers in the
    80s.
    
    Heck some of them have jumped on to the Pats' bandwagon once His
    Highness Bill Parcells came on board.

RE.Mike H.  You keep spouting off about the all time leading scorer. Who is the
Cowboys all time leading scorer? Probably some long forgotten kicker. 

 
   Bandwagon: n 1, a vehicle carrying a musical band in a parade. 2.(Slang) the
		successful side, as in an election.


   As in number two , its human nature to want to be counted among the
successful. It seems normal to me that a football fan living in an area 
without football or in an area with a crummy team/orginization would want
to align themselves with the current hot team. 

>    Like the Giants didn't have their share of bandwagon jumpers in the
>    80s.

Hardly.

I cannot remember a phenomenon with the Giants like there has been with 
the 49ers and the Cowboys.

There are a lot of Giants fans around this neck of the woods, and I don't
remember any great surge in Giants fandom,  In fact, I think it was
more in increase in animosity from folks like you whose teams have posted such
poor showings in the Super Bowl than it was a Giants bandwagon.

    
>    Heck some of them have jumped on to the Pats' bandwagon once His
>    Highness Bill Parcells came on board.

Then they weren't true Giants fans.  

Giants fans have an interest in how Parcells does, but I'd never root
for the Pats over the Giants just because Parcells is there.  

Parcells is going to do good things with the team and make them far
more competitive than any coach in recent history (read that MacPherson
or Berry).  And if they do make it to the Bowl, I hope they aren't playing
the Giants that year, because Parcells has been there twice and knows
how to win it.....


'Saw

    >I cannot remember a phenomenon with the giants like there has been
    >with the 49ers and the Cowboys.
    
     Maybe thats because the Giants have not won as many Superbows as the
    49ers or Cowboys....
    
    just kiddin...
    Frank Mendez
    

   So people hate the Cowboys. Big deal. That's not exactly news. So the
  Cowboys have a lot of band wagon jumping fans. That ain't exactly news
  either. What is news is how mediocre Troy Aikman looked in the SB. Eas-
  ily the winner of Tony Mandarich Award for overrated geeks.

>     Maybe thats because the Giants have not won as many Superbows as the
>   49ers or Cowboys....

Yabbut, if you add in all-time NFL championships, the Giants pull close
I think....8^)


Personally I think it has more to do with the "glitz" of any given team
than their number of champeenships.   Dallas was never a dynasty approaching
SF before two years ago, yet there was all that crap about it being
America's team etc etc etc...

I think it was because they always wore white and silver and had bodacious
cheerleaders....8^)  I dunno....


'saw
    

  Frank Mendez may be kidding but he's also absolutely right. The Giants 
 weren't that successful for that long where they'd be a team that every-
 one either loves or loves to hate. And despite being from Hype City, USA 
 they were never as glamorous as Dallas or San Fran. Kind of hard to hate 
 a team with a blue collar-type personality or adopt one.

> they were never as glamorous as Dallas or San Fran. Kind of hard to hate 
> a team with a blue collar-type personality or adopt one.

I think this is probably the closest to the truth.

Dallas and San Fran are glitz teams -- good aerial attacks etc etc.

Dallas won a lot of trips to the bowl, but they only won two prior to
two years ago -- as many as the Giants.  They lost a three.  So I wouldn't
call it dynastic success.

I think it's the blue collar mentality -- most definitely.  Big following
in their area (similar to the Bruins in hockey) but not much beyond it.


JMHO,
'Saw

    re .373
    
    Relax, I was just kidding around.
    
    Actually, being a Cowboy fan what you described in your note kind of
    gets me mad too. I must have seen a million folks sportin Cowboy tee
    shirts and jackets the day after the superbowl. I myself do not own
    that kind of stuff. Seeing them win is enough for me.  I do have a
    thingee made from shoe String that keeps my badge around my neck that
    has "Cowboys" stamped on it instead of "Digital" and I wear it
    every day. Made it myself.

>    Actually, being a Cowboy fan what you described in your note kind of
>    gets me mad too. I must have seen a million folks sportin Cowboy tee
>    shirts and jackets the day after the superbowl. I myself do not own
>    that kind of stuff. Seeing them win is enough for me.  I do have a
>    thingee made from shoe String that keeps my badge around my neck that
>    has "Cowboys" stamped on it instead of "Digital" and I wear it
>    every day. Made it myself.

I've got a Giants jacket and a couple of baseball hats, but I kind of
feel the same way that you do.....

I knew you were just kidding back there anyway....




re Mac:

Well, maybe I just know real Giants fans and not the few faux ones that
might have popped up.

I do wish Parcells well and hope that he succeeds, but I'm not a Patriots
fan.   

I also wish the Patriots would lose the stupid logo and get the red shirts
back.   They look dumb now.


'Saw

        <<< Note 60.381 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove!" >>>



>>  What is news is how mediocre Troy Aikman looked in the SB. Eas-
>>  ily the winner of Tony Mandarich Award for overrated geeks.
    
    Now that's funny.  Hmmm, seems to me he completed 70% of his passes in
    the game.  What game were you watching???  Fact is, Buffalo doubled on
    Irvin and Harper and Dallas once again shoved Emmitt Smith down another
    teams throat.  I have a copy of the tape; if you'd like I'll send it to
    you to verify the defensive alignment of the Bills for the majority of
    the game. 
    
    Aikman was just a little off on some of his passes to be honest.  I
    guess if he was on he would've completed 90% of them.  The fact that he
    was still suffering severe headaches late in the week probably didn't
    help much.
    
    Is it save to assume Tommy that you'll be making an appearance in the
    Crow Cafe soon? :-)
    
    - Rope

    

>    
>    Boy do you have a short memory.  Dallas helped define dynasty before
>    SF came on the scene.
>

They won a lot, and went to the Bowl five times, but did not have the
success of Pittsburgh or San Fran when it came to the whole enchilada.

They won the NFC Championship (ie trip to the Bowl) five times:

	1971, 1972, 1976, 1978, 1979

They won the Bowl in 1972 and 1978.


While they won a lot, and made the playoffs a lot, if they "defined"
dynasty as you say, then clearly, and without a doubt, Pittsburgh
destroyed that definition and remade it in their own image.

San Francisco, in the 1980s picked up the Pittsburgh theme and did
their own variation.


If Dallas wins one of two more, say in the next four years, I'll conceed
that they are a dynasty of Pittsburgh or San Francisco proportions.

As it stands now, they aren't even on a par with pre-Super Bowl Green Bay.


'Saw

    
>  So people hate the Cowboys. Big deal. That's not exactly news. So the
>  Cowboys have a lot of band wagon jumping fans. That ain't exactly news
>  either. What is news is how mediocre Troy Aikman looked in the SB. Eas-
>  ily the winner of Tony Mandarich Award for overrated geeks.
    
    That's two years in a row that Buffalo was going to win (or at least
    make a strong showing in) the Super Bowl in large part due to Troy 
    Aikman's glaring deficiencies under pressure, according to Tommy.  
    Going for three next year, Tommy?
    
    glenn
     

>RE.Mike H.  You keep spouting off about the all time leading scorer. Who is the
>Cowboys all time leading scorer? Probably some long forgotten kicker. 
    
    Well Mr. System (HA!), most Cowboy fans guess Tony Dorsett.  Feel free
    to take a shot.

    Nor do you see Giants fans claiming it.  But you see Cowboys fans
    trying to...
    
    brews

    The cowboys did indeed lose 3 Superbowls but they were competative in
    everyone of those losses. They NEVER got Buffalo'ed or blown out in any
    of them. The Baltimore loss was just like the Giant win when Norwood
    missed his chance to win the game. Too bad Baltimore didn't have
    Norwood back then. *SIGH*  The wrong guy missed!  :-)
    
    Both Pittsburg games were exciting to watch and went down to the wire.
    Could have gone either way.
    
    Anyone remember the year Dallas came back from 18 down with less than 5
    minutes? to go to win over SF in a playoff game? Its one of the 6(7?)
    times the Niners met the Cowboys in the Playoffs. Niners have only won
    once and we all remember "the catch"

    
  >> That's two years in a row that Buffalo was going to win (or at least
  >> make a strong showing in) the Super Bowl in large part due to Troy 
  >> Aikman's glaring deficiencies under pressure, according to Tommy.  
  >> Going for three next year, Tommy?
    
     Gonna embarass yourself trying to pick the World Series winner again
     this year? Please do, I could always use a laugh.
    
     Troy showed me nothing. He threw that one stupid INT and had a Buffalo
     player drop another sure one. His defense and Emmitt "The Franchise"
     Smith pulled his butt outta the fire. Again.
    
    
     BTW-I broke even on SB Sunday. I bet the under because I thought it
         would be a tight defensive battle which it was for one half.
    

>     Gonna embarass yourself trying to pick the World Series winner again
>     this year? Please do, I could always use a laugh.
    
    If I do, I will:  a) own up to it, and  b) not try to pass off the
    winners' superior performance as sub-standard (read: Troy Aikman,
    1993 Super Bowl MVP, having "his butt pulled out of the fire").
    
    glenn
    

>    BTW-I broke even on SB Sunday. I bet the under because I thought it
>         would be a tight defensive battle which it was for one half.
   
So assuming that you lost that bet you must have wagered on the Cowboys to
cover in order to break even.

Or did you bet on something silly like 1st points would be a buffalo field goal?

Metz

    I guess I'll have to remind Tommy *AGAIN*, that only I belittle the
    champions' efforts when my team loses.

   
 >> So assuming that you lost that bet you must have wagered on the Cowboys to
 >> cover in order to break even.

    The under was 50 points. Try and pay attention, Metz. 

>    
>    Maybe not, but there was a whole lot of chest puffing over some truly
>    mediocre (and down right bad) teams.  Got to give the Giants fans
>    credit though.  They kept the seats filled.

Where do you get that?

1986 was a solid team, 14-2, which is hardly mediocre.  It was enough
to win a Super Bowl.....

1990 they went 10-0 before losing four then winning two.  It was enough
to win a Super Bowl....

I don't think anyone was bragging about the other teams.  They came close
a couple of times with solid teams.

The Giants were truly lousy from the mid-60s until the early 1980s.
Prior to that they were often in the hunt.  They played in a lot
of Championship Games, but didn't win that many.  

There was a list I posted in here somewhere that details that.  Green Bay
stil owns the most Championships I believe.


So, basically, I've just told you in a nice way that you're full of shit.  8^)

    
  >> If I do, I will:  a) own up to it, and  

     That's not the way that I remember it. What I  remember was something 
     about 'Philadelphia lost but my reasoning was quite correct' or words
     to that effect. A lame-o excuse unsurpassed until this year's "I was
     betting with my heart" after the Dallas-49ers debacle.
    

  >> I guess I'll have to remind Tommy *AGAIN*, that only I belittle the
  >> champions' efforts when my team loses.

    Sorry, "my team" didn't lose. Largely because "my team" didn't play.

I'm  quite sure it was surpassed with the 6 lucky turnovers but not because of
a ball hawking defense, UCLA will crush Wisconsin excuse...

Metz

    
    >>Sorry, "my team" didn't lose. Largely because "my team" didn't play.
    
    And just what team is "your team," Tommy????
    
    JaKe
    

    
  >> And just what team is "your team," Tommy????
    
     Take a wild guess, Jethro. I'm from New England. I note about the
     Patsies. The first time that I met you I had a Patriots t-shirt on.
     Think about it a little while and get back to me.     

    You haveth my deepest heartfelt sympathies, Tommy.
    
    I don't pay much attention to what peoples wear, unless it's outrageous
    or horrible(come to think of it, I should have noticed the Pats shirt,
    then).
    
    
    
    JaKe
    
    
    

    >     Patsies. The first time that I met you I had a Patriots t-shirt on.
    
    If it was the old logo, maybe it confused him.

  re .405

  Okey dokey, Mr. Rick-Mirer-looks-awful-but-oh-oh-Tom-Flores-says-that-
  Mirer-deserves-the-ROY-so-I-change-my-mind-Rick-Mirer-is-God.
  

>>        <<< Note 60.381 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove!" >>>


>>  either. What is news is how mediocre Troy Aikman looked in the SB. Eas-
>>  ily the winner of Tony Mandarich Award for overrated geeks.


CONGRATULATIONS!  You've just made a HALOPROPISM.  Way to go.  And you'll 
be pleased to know that you're the first non-HAL to ever do this.

Jerry

                                                                  
>     That's not the way that I remember it. What I  remember was something 
>     about 'Philadelphia lost but my reasoning was quite correct' or words
>     to that effect.
    
    You recall incorrectly.  It's all there in the crow note, where it's 
    supposed to be: "The Blue Jays proved to be the superior team, top to
    bottom".  Matter of fact, you acknowledged that such a simple 
    non-antagonistic prediction probably didn't even warrant the dining of 
    crow.  That's okay, you were probably just in a good mood and really
    didn't mean it.
    
    glenn
    

I dare ya to find a note that I said Rick Mirer looks awful Tommy (or is that
Mr. Hal-a-Prope) All I ever said was that I'd rather have Bledsoe on the
seahawks than Mirer. Bledsoe is an NFL stud and my personal jury thought that
he would be a better NFL QB than Mirer. Rick done  showed he's a bonerfied NFL
QB this season...However I'd still take drew with the #1 pick over Rick...

Mirer still deserved ROY IMO.....

Did UCLA win the Rose bowl? Did Buffalo cover?

Metz

    
    So tell us MAC, what's the Pats' excuse fer being downright bad to
    smelling like dogsh!t the past x years????????
    
    JaKe
    

>    
>    Obviously not.  Those mediocre to downright bad teams were the ones
>    from the 60's, 70's and 80's.  Giants fans were still flocking to the
>    stadium pining for the good old days.
>


So how is that any different than Pats fans showing up any of the last
bunch of years?  How is that any different from all the Redskins fans
that still showed up at RFK this year, or the Cowboy fans that showed
up during the 1-15 season?

Really Mac, you've got to try a little harder because your logical
arguments have more holes in them than cheese-cloth....


Lemme see if I get this straight...  If you're team is going through
a bad spell, you're not supposed to go to the stadium or hope that
things turn around?  

And this from a charter member of the Palmer_Youth who'd follow
him unerringly to the Gotterdamerung of what was once a fairly
decent company.....

Sad.......


'Saw

    Any way you want to cut it, Dallas was a dynasty in theh 70's.  5 NFC
    Championships - 2 Super Bowl Wins.  While they were a step below
    Pittsburgh, they were every bit as dominant.  Recall that the two
    losses to Pittsburgh were by 4 points each game.  Really no way you can
    deny the Cowboys dominance in the 70's unless you didn't watch much
    football in the 70's :-).
    
    - Rope

    I only wish Dallas had a half-way decent QB instead of that geek
    Aikman.  Just imagine, if they had Jay Schroeder, they more than
    likely would've gone undefeated each of the last two seasons.  
    
    Hopefully management will wise up and draft a QB in this years draft.
    
    HAW, HAW, HAW
    
    - Rope

    I don't have any idea what 'Saw and JaKe are talking about.
    
    'Saw was complaining about obnoxious Cowboy fans.  I simply told him to
    look at his own favorite team (BTW, there was a guy doing the "Good
    Morning America" thang from CA this morning complete with NY Giants
    baseball cap and NY Giants jacket).

  >> Hopefully management will wise up and draft a QB in this years draft.
    
     Why bother? You have an adequate one in Aikman. He just ain't the god
     that he's often painted.
    

>    While they were a step below
>    Pittsburgh, they were every bit as dominant.
    
    That appears to be a non sequitur, Rope.  "Dominance" does not leave
    room for a step below; a team that finishes #2 is not every bit as
    dominant as the team that finishes #1.  There was only one truly 
    dominant team of the 1970s, the Pittsburgh Steelers.  Dallas was left 
    to fight it out for #2 with Miami and Oakland.  The other consideration
    is that Dallas' competition for conference champion in the 1970s was
    not that strong.  It was consistently the Minnesota Vikings and that
    was about it.  Remember that if hadn't been for that Drew Pearson
    hip catch on the Hail Mary in 1975 at Minnesota, the Vikings likely 
    would have preceded the Buffalo Bills as a 4-straight Super Bowl loser,
    taking a major chunk of the decade away from the Cowboys (the second
    Cowboy team to lose to the Steelers was a rebuilt edition!).  The 5 
    Super Bowl appearances and 2 wins are not as impressive as they might 
    sound, coming from the weaker conference at the time. 
    
    As memories fade, weaknesses are forgotten in favor of strengths.  I
    remember the 1970s Cowboys as a great team, maybe the most consistent team, 
    but never hide-the-women-and-children unbeatable.  This bunch right now
    is more the truly head-and-shoulders-above dominant team in the league 
    than any of the 1970s teams were.  That may be high praise, but it's true...
    
    glenn
      

	RE: Heiser

   Mr.System here again! Since you don't seem to know the top scorer I'll fill
you in. Like I said in the previous note. The top scorer is probably some long
forgoten kicker. Rafeal Septein (sp) kicked for some years(8 or 9), longer than
any other I can remember. Since kickers hold most of the scoring titles, and 
since he was with the team longer than any other kicker, he must be the scoring
leader. I would have guessed Bob Hayes or Drew Pearson, but after applying some
logic, a kicker had to be my selection.


   So now you can call up and tell your local DJ the answer. Won't he be
impressed.


 Mr.System  aka Cadzilla2
  

    Ahh, but Cadzilla2, kickers only get 3 points max.  Allow me Hize to
    step in and clear this mess up.  
    
    The Cowboys all-time leading scorer would have to be none other than
    "Bullet" Bob Hayes.  Hayes if memory serves scored 76 TD's for a total
    of 456 points.  Second place was a kicker named Mike Clark who played
    in the 70's.  Hayes was phenominal.
    
    P.S. - Glenn, I agree that the Steelers were a more dominant team. 
    However, had Fred Swearingen not called the Ghost Pass Interference
    call on Benny Barnes and Jackie Smith not dropped a SURE touchdown,
    Dallas may have been known as the Team of the 70's.  I will also agree
    that the Dallas team of the 90's is a much stronger team physically
    than the one of the 70's.
    
    - Rope

	Sorry Rope!

   I figure Septein has 800+ Points Since hot kickers on good team average 100
points a year.


   Where's Heiser our self proclaimed expert?

  Cadzilla2

    
    >              -< Hayes dropped more TD's than he caught >-
    
    A brutal display of honesty on the Bob Hayes I remember!  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

   >  Any way you want to cut it, Dallas was a dynasty in theh 70's.
    
    Sorry Rope, you can only have one dynasty, and except for a few deluded
    Cowboys fans with short, selective memories, almost everyone pick the
    STeelers.  
    
    And the Cowboys all time leading scorer is Septien.  But the two
    Cowboys fans in here sure managed to make Heiser's point.
    
    brews

	RE: Two Dallas 4 point Super Bowl losses

	The first game in 1976 was a legitimate close 4 point game, but in 
1979 the Steelers had an 17 point lead in the fourth quarter, and the Cowboys 
scored two garbage time touchdowns while the PittsburgH starters were on the 
sidelines drinking Iron City beer and disco dancing.

				/Don

	Brews!

  How do you figure the point was made if the correct answer was given? If he
kept making the point and no one gave the correct answer I would have agreed.

I can imagine how many Cowboy fan would forget Septien. He was the second
Cowboys run out of town for dropping his draws in front of little girls. This
guy had a great career going and pulled a truly dumb stunt.  

  I say he was second since Lance Rentzel was the first one caught exposing
himself to little girls. He ran off to lala land with his wife Joey Heatherton
and finally liked his problems.

  Cadzilla2

 >> He ran off to lala land with his wife Joey Heatherton and finally 
 >> liked his problems.
    ^^^^^

    I think Rentzel liked his problem all along.

  >   How do you figure the point was made if the correct answer was given?
  >  If hekept making the point and no one gave the correct answer I would
  >  have agreed.
    
    Two Cowboy fans answered, one was flat wrong, and the other admitted
    his first two guesses were wrong before he thought of the correct
    answer.
    
    brews

> The first game in 1976 was a legitimate close 4 point game, but in 
> 1979 the Steelers had an 17 point lead in the fourth quarter, and the Cowboys 
> scored two garbage time touchdowns while the PittsburgH starters were on the 
> sidelines drinking Iron City beer and disco dancing.
    
    Both games were close into the 4th quarter, but even in the first one
    Pittsburgh eventually asserted itself with a 21-10 lead before the
    Cowboys tacked on that late TD (the other came via the special teams 
    on a fumbled kickoff as I recall, too).  Made SNL's "Great Super Bowl 
    Gambling Moments", as Tom Landry was carried off the field in the game's 
    wake with the "cover" firmly in place... ;-)
    
    glenn
     

    Lest we forget, in 1979 the Steelers built that 17 point lead on a
    BOGUS pass interference call on Benny Barnes.  Immediately following
    that TD, the kickoff was squibbed to Randy White (had a cast on his
    hand from a broken thumb) who fumbled to set up another quick TD.  It
    also certainly didn't help when with the score 21-14 Pittsburgh, Jackie
    Smith dropped the easiest TD catch you'll ever see on third down.
    
    BTW, my guess of Hayes for All-Time leading scorer wasn't too far off
    the mark.  As of 1980, he was the leader.  Held the mark for 20 years. 
    And his 76 TD's aren't chopped liver either!
    
    - Rope

    as Brews so eloquently implied, "thanks for proving my point!"

	Now you pipe up!  So who's your pick Heiser? You have yet to prove that
you know the answer. 

 Mr.System to you

    Brews confirmed that I know the answer.  I would've put in Chester The
    Molester (aka Raphael Septien) earlier if I wasn't working.

	So I see it all now. A fan that uses knowledge of a teams past to
correctly answer a question is less a fan than someone reading a stats book or
getting the answer from DJ out to make a name. So I guess I'm jumping on the
wagon, even though I've followed the team since Bob Lilly was drafted as their
first pick. I failed to remember the strange use of logic in this conference.


  Cadzilla2

    That's right Cadzilla2, and take the price tag off your hat.  It's
    downright embarassing!

	Yo Heiser! get a life. At least I have a NFL WORLD CHAMPIONS bandwagon
to jump on. Besides I get authentic hats from my daughter in Big D therfore I
need not remove the tag. 

        When has a team from Phoenix won anything worht remembering?

  Cadzilla2

    How many authentic hats did you buy when they were 1-15, and did you
    wear them in public?
    
    What Cowboy in Texas Stadium's Ring of Fame doesn't have his number
    next to his name?

	Tom Landry THE COACH!!!!

   I've had more Cowboy's hats than you can count!!. There's probably five of
them stuck away in some closet. 

 Like I said I've been rooting for this team since they had Eddie Labaron and
Dandy Don swapping jobs. Be my guess I've been a Cowboy fan longer than half you
guys have been alive . Season record don't mean squat for me to follow them. The
1-15 year is not the first one win season I've been through. Even worse I was a
Giants fan before the Cowboys came along.  

  So Heiser you call me what you want. Your whinny sore loser opinion does not
mean much anyway.

 Cadzilla2

  

    Cadzilla, are you from Dallas?

    
>>   I've had more Cowboy's hats than you can count!!. There's probably five of
>>them stuck away in some closet. 
    
    What's the similarity between Cowboy hats and hemmorrhoids????????
    
    
    Every a$$hole gets one eventually!!!!!
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    did someone piss in your Wheaties, JaKe?
    
    I have 3 hats.
    
    Gin

    
    	Get off Cadzilla, Heiser.  He's a Texan through and through.  I
    	can vouch for that.  I don't know how the hell he got past the
    	Colorado border patrol though........  :*)
    
    Claybone

	RE: Heiser

  No!! I'm from Ft.Worth. Were the West begins!! 

   Are you from Clinton? If so why do you keep raving about AZ. and Phoenix

        RE: Claybone:

  I didn't get past them. They gave me a ticket when I came to Trinidad, the
entrance fee was $46.50.


         RE: Jake

  Whats two thing are similar between Steelers hats and a toilets?

  They are both recepticals for fecal matter and they are both associated with 
  anal cavities.


  Cadzilla2
 

    >  No!! I'm from Ft.Worth. Were the West begins!! 
    
    Do you root for the Mavs and Rangers as you do the Cowboys?  If not,
    why not?
    
>   Are you from Clinton? If so why do you keep raving about AZ. and Phoenix
    
    I lived in Clinton for 12 years, but support all the Boston teams.  I
    also support the Phoenix teams when they're not playing Boston since
    they don't have enough loyal fans around here.

   > Get off Cadzilla, Heiser.  He's a Texan through and through.
    
    Then he's accustomed to getting himself off.  Why does he need Mike's
    help.
    
    brews

	No I do not root for the Mavs, I used follow the Rockets when I lived in
Houston. B-Ball is not my game. 

I try to follow both the Rangers and Astros in baseball, but the Rockies get
most of my attention at present. I hope to take in some Cactus league games
during this years spring break. 

Texas is a two sport state. Fall football and Spring football. Two aday's in
August were always my favorite. Workout from 7-11 and 2-6 with weekends off for
good blocking . 


 Cadzilla2

>	No I do not root for the Mavs, I used follow the Rockets when I lived in
>Houston. B-Ball is not my game. 
>
>I try to follow both the Rangers and Astros in baseball, but the Rockies get
>most of my attention at present. I hope to take in some Cactus league games
>during this years spring break. 
    
    just as I thought.  I haven't met a Cowboy "fan" yet that will support
    the other Dallas teams.  They root for whoever the champion is in
    other sports as well.

	Re: brews

  No comments from the peanut section please! Mike and I have our own LDUC going
here and do not need your input. 

  Now if you want to attack my heritage thats another story. Just keep clean!

 Cadzilla2

    >              -< Damn proud Texan, and proud to be a damn Texan >-
                       ^                                   ^
    
    you forgot the "U"

    Hey 'Bone,
    Whaddya mean did the Colraddy border patrol "let" Cadzilla the
    Texassan in?  Hail, who do you think supports 75% of yo' state's
    ski bidness? Shoot, WP prolly gives 50 smacker rebates to every
    dadgum Texican who wafts outta Denver to I70
    
    
    8^)
    
    MikeL
    
    BTW, one of mah most endearing moments was visiting the 'Boys
    lockeroom on a tour a few back.. Using the urinal summed up mah
    feelings. I don't know what I liked best, mah "relief" or 
    standing in the 'Boys' owner's suite all bedecked in Redskin colors
    (he lost da bet)..
    But I gotsta admit. I may not like 'em, but they've consistently
    been the best pro football program over the last 25 years.
    
    

    
    Sorry Cad, it was too easy, and I couldn't resist.  I was even gonna
    offer you a place to stay if'n you come down here for the Cactus
    League.  The Rockies play in Tucson though, so you may have to plan it
    when they play up here.
    
    brews, who's heading to Austin today, and been baiting Cowboy fans
    longer than he can remember.

	Re Heiser

  You did not read the note. I do not care about no steenking basketball. The
discussion is football. Why should a football fan be knocked because he/she
does not follow a sport that has no significance in their life? Lets keep to the
subject at hand. 

 Cadzilla2

  

>discussion is football. Why should a football fan be knocked because he/she
>does not follow a sport that has no significance in their life? Lets keep to the
>subject at hand. 
    
    Then why do you root for the Rockies?

	Re brews


   Check out 6th street while in town. It's generally one of the hotter spots
in town. Also Jorge's uptown enchilada bar was another spot I remember for
my old FS support travel days.

 
	Re Heiser

   Now you want to get personal? Next thing I know you'll start talking about my
mother. I may have to stop in Phoenix on my way to spring training and see what
your made of.


  Cadzilla2

>mother. I may have to stop in Phoenix on my way to spring training and see what
>your made of.
    
    Just let me know.  We'll go catch a game of the sport you don't care
    about. ;-)

>  Check out 6th street while in town.

ditto on that. One year I spent a week a month in Austin and we
ended up there 2-3 nights each time.

The Crazy Met

>>   <<< Note 60.454 by FRETZ::HEISER "Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho!" >>>

>>    just as I thought.  I haven't met a Cowboy "fan" yet that will support
>>    the other Dallas teams.  They root for whoever the champion is in
>>    other sports as well.

Well this is your lucky day.  I'm about as big a Cowboy fan as there
is, and I'm also a Texas Rangers fan.  Hell, I think Nolan Ryan should
be granted sainthood.

As for the other Dallas teams (the Mavs and the Stars), I don't really
follow them.  I was never much of a basketball fan, and don't care
at all for hockey.

Jerry

>is, and I'm also a Texas Rangers fan.  Hell, I think Nolan Ryan should
>be granted sainthood.
    
    I think every baseball fan would agree.  Did you root for them before
    Ryan came on-board?

I've got a Nolan Ryan rookie card......

    
> I've got a Nolan Ryan rookie card......
    
    The one with he and Gary Gentry (I think)?  That's worth bucks, if Rak
    didn't chew it up or something...
    
    I don't see where a *real* Texas Rangers' fan uses Nolan Ryan to
    demonstrate his devotion to that team.  For posterity Nolan Ryan is 
    an Angel, or maybe with a bit of a stretch an Astro, but certainly 
    not a Ranger.  *Real* Ranger fans worship at the altar of Buddy Bell,
    or maybe Toby Harrah... ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    >             -< Don't let 'em off the hook so easy, Heiser... ;-) >-
    
    Okay, saying you've been a Ranger fan since they acquired Nolan Ryan is
    like saying the Cowboys have been your favorite team since they drafted
    Emmitt Smith.
    
    How's that?

Yeah, it's the one with Jerry Koosman on it.

It's in excellent condition (as opposed to MINT) but 
last I checked excellent was still worth about $800 as
opposed to $1200 for mint....

Now, the sentimental value on the other hand...

I've also got a Clemente card, (not a rookie) but
I don't know if that's worth anything or not....

'saw

	Do I qualify as a Rangers fan ?  They're my 2nd-favorite AL team
	(behind Boston).  I've been a fan since Ted coached 'em in Washington.
	I remember Toby Harrah as their lone all-star their first year in
	Texas (then he got hurt, and they went unrepresented).  I remember
	the Billy Martin antics, the year-or-two of good production from
	Jeff Burroughs, the year-or-two of good pitching from Jon Matlack,
	etc.

	BTW, I hate the Cowboys.

    I've got price guides if anyone's interested...
    

>>   <<< Note 60.465 by FRETZ::HEISER "Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho!" >>>

>>    I think every baseball fan would agree.  Did you root for them before
>>    Ryan came on-board?

 reason # 234,345,567,567,567,900,001 to hate the Sowboys........

 the JJ boys couldn't stand being out of the limelight so they stage
 this silly fued.

 Jones may have an ego bigger than the stadium but he ain't dumb enough
 to fire one the best coaches around who he's got a rock bottom price
 and Johnson would go into such withdrawl symptoms if he wasn't going to be
 able to coach for 5 years that he'd commit suicide. For petesakes the
 guy got divorced to spend more time coaching........

 look for them to kiss and makeup today and Johnson to get a raise.......

 mike

Imus and gang did a very funny skit about that this morning, complete
with Southern accents and southern idioms.

I was rolling.....

    knowing Iman it'll be replayed.  Must have been before 7:30 as I missed
    it.
    
    Thought Imus seemed out of it Sunday morning.  He's one skinny guy
    that'd look a whole lot better if he gained some weight.

>    
>    Thought Imus seemed out of it Sunday morning.  He's one skinny guy
>    that'd look a whole lot better if he gained some weight.

Yeah, I don't think he's fully "back" from the lung operation.

Maybe getting hitche to Dierdre will put some meat on his bones.....

     Yea, I bet the bitter taste of Crow would leave you Anti-Dallas fans
    with more than enough reasons to hate the (C)owboys. Of course NC lost
    so that makes it even worse for Y'all    :-)

Did anybody catch yesterday's (3/28) BC comic strip?  It surprised
me, to say the least.

In the first panel, there was the silly bird standing on top of the
turtle, asking the question.

"What has 22 legs and stomps Buffalo?"

The second panel had the answer.  It was, of course,



"The Dallas Cowboys".

Jerry

	Thanks Jerry I nneded that!!!!!!!!!!!!!



  Cadzilla2

    Local reports have Jerry & Jimmy at the bargaining table today after
    their latest conflict.  Jerry wants Jimmy to commit or he's gonna buy
    him out of his contract.

    Jerry Jones is made out to be the bad guy in this blowup, and that's
    simply not the case.  Jones gave Johnson a 10-year 1,000,000 contract
    that made him one of if not the highest paid coaches in the league. 
    Johnson shows his gratitude by talking with Jacksonville officials
    about their head coaching vacancy.  This is what irked Jones and led
    him to say the things he said about Johnson.  Also, Johnson apparently
    snubbed Jones at a party in which Johnson was sitting at a table with
    ex-Cowboys coaches Dave Wannstedt, etc.  That's just not something you
    do.  Would any of us do the same to Bob Palmer?  I don't thing so. 
    There's a certain amount of respect that you must give to the owner of
    any business.  Especially if you work for him!
    
    I'm sure if Jerry doesn't get a firm committment from Johnson, than
    Jimmy will be looking for another job after today.
    
    - Rope

Sheeeee-yit.

These are a couple o' good ol' boys.  Why don't they just settle it like
men.   Go out in the north 40 and each suck down a twelve-pack.   Then
pummel the be-jeezus out of each other until they've gotten it worked out....

It'd be a lot simpler.....

    Johnson has nothing left to prove in Dallas. He can get lots more money
    elsewhere. Since we all seem to agree that pro-sports are mega-business
    why should Johnson try and get the best deal he can for himself?
    
    Of course I do happen to believe that signed contracts mean something,
    foolish notion. Given that Johnson should really shut up and do what he
    gets paid for.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
    		Yabbut just a nit -
    
    The north 40 was used for grazin the 2500 cattle over the weekend.
    Ah suggest y'all head to the SOUTH fohrty.
    
    I remain,
    squishing and steppin on land mines
    Kev
    

    I thought it was Jerry that snubbed Jimmy at the dinner?!

         

Cmon Rope, get serious will ya? IF Palmer came into a place where I was
I certainly hope he would have the decency to tip his hat to me first
for the contributions and sacrifices ( I didn't get no 20% raise last year)
I've made instead of the other way around. Yes, I wouldn't snub him but
I wouldn't go out of my way to pay him respect unless he gave it to me
first.

Jones is a jerk period, he wants the credit for what Jimmy did.

On another front, Emitt says he'll quit if Johnson leaves....

If that's really true, I sure hope Jones looses it and fires JJ.......

mike

    
    
     I just heard that Jimmy Johnson just resigned.  Resigning
    insteading of getting canned does this mean he is still
    under contract with Jones and cannot take another positon
    in the NFL with Jones letting him go?
    
    Jerry

Newsgroups: clari.sports.football
Subject: Cowboy's JJ's In Verbal Feud
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 9:40:15 PST

	DALLAS (AP) -- Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson and owner Jerry Jones
are back at it, once again exchanging the kinds of threats and
insults that have led to predictions they would eventually have a
big blowup.
	Johnson left the NFL's annual spring meetings Tuesday saying
he's considering quitting after learning Jones repeatedly
threatened to fire him, The Dallas Morning News reported in
Wednesday's editions.
	I've heard from numerous reliable sources that (Jones) was in
the bar in the early hours of the morning and threatening to fire
me and said he was going to fire me at least eight or nine times,''
Johnson told The Morning News.
	I am really dumbfounded for the simple reason I don't know
what I did,'' he said.
	Johnson confronted Jones about the statements Tuesday at the
league meetings in Orlando, Fla., then left the gathering. He was
scheduled to attend a coaches' breakfast at the meetings this
morning.
	This particular incident makes me pull back and reassess
things,'' said Johnson, who months ago caused waves by saying he
was intrigued by the idea of coaching the expansion Jacksonville
franchise.
	Jones said everything has been worked out. We talked, and as
we have always done, cleared the air on any of these issues,''
Jones said.
	Johnson did not attend Wednesday's coaches' breakfast at the
meetings in Orlando, leaving on what Cowboy's public relations
director Rich Dalrymple said was a previously scheduled trip to
Miami.
	Jimmy is still the coach and Jerry is still the owner,''
Dalrymple said.
	Jones and Johnson, former teammates at the University of
Arkansas, have long had what seems to be a love-hate relationship.
	When Jones bought the team in 1989, his first move was hiring
Johnson, then the University of Miami coach. Johnson coached the
Cowboys to the last two NFL titles and has five years remaining on
his contract.
	Each have maintained their occassionally rocky relationship
doesn't get in the way of their jobs.
	We've got a very good working relationship that withstands any
of these new personal differences or some of the frailties of being
in a pretty highly visible situation,'' Jones said.
	I feel good about what we're going to be doing here in 1994,
and I feel good about him coaching the Cowboys.''
	The recent argument began when Jones returned from an NFL social
event and apparently felt snubbed by Johnson in front of several
former Cowboys employees, the newspaper said.
	At the hotel several hours later, with reporters present, Jones
said he planned to immediately replace Johnson. Jones reportedly
mentioned former University of Oklahoma coach Barry Switzer as a
possible replacement.
	It concerns me when he says to a group of reporters that he's
not only going to fire me, but even says who the replacement is
going to be,'' Johnson said.
	This wasn't a statement to one person behind closed doors.
This was a statement made in a bar with a lot of people around.''
	Chicago Bears coach Dave Wannstedt, a former Cowboys defensive
coordinator and longtime friend of Johnson, was at the Monday night
party where the problem between Jones and Johnson began. He said
Johnson did nothing to provoke Jones.
	Jimmy never said a word,'' Wannstedt said.

    Mebbe the Wanny can catch a few good Cowboy defenders now.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    It's confirmed.  CNN Headline News just reported that Jimmy Johnson has
    indeed resigned from the Dallas Cowboys.  This isn't good news at all
    for a team which still has unsigned free-agents like Darrel Johnston,
    Nate Newton, Mark Stepnoski and Ken Norton, Jr.  I suspect Johnston is
    a goner now, and will soon join Norv Turners staff in Washington.
    
    - Rope

    Jimmy is just skeert of Buddy since he's never beaten them.
    
    I wonder where Barry Switzer is hiding?

    Barry is ready to go in Dallas.  I'd like to see Jimmah out here in
    Cincinnati instead of Mr_Vanilla.
    
    This unremarkable, boring team is going to sick the franchise.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Chip, as long as Mike Brown has the reigns, you'll never see a high
    profile coach in Cincinatti.  Brown is toooooo cheap.
    
    - Rope

    Rumor in Dallas has Jerry Jones trying to get in touch with long time 
    Cowboy fan club president Mike Childs to give him first crack at 
    coaching his favorite team.    ;-)
    
    Tom

    re.494
    
    About the still unsigned free agents,lets not forget that Jimmy Johnson
    showed no loyalty to his players for going to talk to Jacksonville
    which seems to be the real reason this has even happened,so I don't 
    think its gonna mean much to the players alls they are gonna want is
    that they get there $$$,just like its always been.
    
    Tom

 So glad I was wrong about yesterday. Now I hope the player defections
 start. That would really make my day. If Jerry calls Reeves about the
 job I'll have a trainwreck.........

 mike

    Barry S will coach the Cowboys nexted year.

    Not only the player defections, but the other end of this problem is
    not being able to attract any FA's.  Couldn't have happened at a better
    time!

    And....   Aikman didn't like Barrys offense and went to UCLA.  I wonder
    how well the 'Switz and Troy will get along if Barrys in Dalla...

    Has Barry ever shown the ability to coach a successfull pro-style
    offense, or even defend one?
    
    Hiring Switzer is like the Cards hiring Bud Wilkinson.  As a Giants
    fan, I hope Jerry does it.
    
    Mike

	Switzer does not need to know how to run a pro offense. He has Ernie
Zampisi a godfather of the "West coast offense" to run it for him. Defense is
another story!

    Switzer seemed to have an eye for talent while at ou. I hope he has not
lost that ability. For those of you that do not know  Switzer played on the same
63 Nat'l Champ Arkansas team as Jones and Johnson. 


 Cadzilla2

    I get the feeling jones has been talking to Switzer for quite awhile.
    
    I am real sick of hearing about sanctity of contract.  When the day
    comes that owners honor contracts (eg no firing) then that's the day
    I'll have some sympathy when the other party wants out early.
    
    It's not just Dallas.  In the Blobe today their moaning about Milbury
    going to boston college.  And here there isn't even a contract problem,
    just a guy after 10 years wanting to go somewhere else.
    
    I mean this isn't George Patton wanting to resign from the battle of
    the bulge to be sales manager of Pillsbury Flour.

 If Jones had any filberts he'd coach the team himself...........

    
      Jones is killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. It's Johnson's
     football savvy that got Dallas where they are. Jones may be a shrewd
     business man but it's Johnson who can tell who has championship level 
     talent. The Cowboys are going to miss that more than the x's and o's
     part of Jimmy Johnson. And next year when Johnson lands his next job,
     you can bet that he's going to raid the Cowboys for talent. 

    Switzer is no dummy.  He will give Ernie Zampese total reign over the
    Cowboy offense.  I imagine he'll do the same with Butch Davis and the
    defense.  Remember, Johnson's greatest assets were his scouting and
    motivational abilities.  I suspect that Switzer will do okay in both
    these areas.  
    
    The biggest concern for the Cowboys is how this transition will affect
    the free agents.  Unless Switzer makes an immediate good impression on
    Darrel Johnston for instance, he's gone.  I suspect Johnston will sign
    in the next week or so with either Dallas or Norv Turner and the
    Redskins.  
    
    - Rope

 Nothing wrong with that Tom. I can't wait for those bums to fall flat on
 their faces..........

 mike

    re .506
    
    >> And why Switzer and not Ditka
    
    Simple.  Ditka's ego is on par with Johnson's.  Jerry Jones wants
    someone that'll give him the positive strokes his massive ego needs.
    
    - Rope

    re. 510
    
    Mike I just hope you don't hold your breath waiting for the Champs to
    fall on their faces because 5 or more years will be an awful long wait.
    So far they have lost 3 very replaceable pieces in Jimmy Jones,Murray 
    and Gesek..basically they have lost nothing.Only time will tell though
    as far as the remaining free agents.
    
    
    Tom

    Barry Switzer is very used to running a pro franchise.  If he wasn't,
    the NCAA wouldn't have bounced him out of OU.

re: .???

Switzer probably has an ego that is just as big as Johnson's.

The Crazy Met

    
    
     The Cowboys have lost everything. 
    
     Cowboys won't win the division this year, and will be lucky to make the
    playoffs.
    
      It's a bad, bad move to let Johnson get away.
    
    
    
    
     

    clarinews@clarinet.com articles by  Tue, 29 Mar 94:

Subject: Johnson Out As Cowboys' Coach
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 13:10:19 PST
 
	IRVING, Texas (AP) -- Jimmy Johnson severed his tempestuous
five-year relationship with Jerry Jones Tuesday, leaving the Dallas
Cowboys and a chance to win an unprecedented third straight Super
Bowl.
	Johnson's resignation capped a long-standing feud that boiled
over in Orlando, Fla., last week when Jones suggested in a barroom
conversation that he should hire a new coach, and his remarks got
back to Johnson.
	``After our discussions, we have mutually decided that I would
no longer be the head football coach of the Dallas Cowboys,''
Johnson said, sitting to the right of Jones at the Cowboys' Valley
Ranch headquarters after two days of meetings.
	But their kind words Tuesday aside, the feud between the two
began almost as soon as Jones bought the team in 1989, fired Tom
Landry and made Johnson his coach.
	``This boiled down to a personal thing between Jimmy and
Jerry,'' said defensive coordinator Butch Davis, who has been with
Johnson throughout his 15-year coaching career. ``It was nothing
about football, it was nothing about management. This was
personal.''
	During the NFL owners' meeting last week in Orlando, Jones had
suggested in public that he would fire Johnson and replace him with
former Oklahoma coach Barry Switzer.
	Johnson, infuriated, left the meetings the next morning.
	Jones said at their joint news conference Tuesday that no
successor to Johnson would be named immediately.
	Switzer was one of the possible successors along with Notre Dame
coach Lou Holtz and Davis. Davis has never been a head coach at any
level and has been with Johnson since his days at Oklahoma State,
but at this late date, he would be the most likely successor for
reasons of continuity.

--------

Subject: Possible Johnson Replacements
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 18:40:14 PST
 
	Leading contenders to replace Jimmy Johnson as coach of the
Dallas Cowboys:
	-- Butch Davis, Cowboys defensive coordinator; worked with
Johnson for 15 years; four years as defensive line coach in Dallas,
five seasons as defensive line coach at University of Miami,
assistant at Oklahoma State.
	-- Mike Ditka, NBC commentator; former Cowboys player and
assistant under Tom Landry who went 112-68 in 11 years as head
coach of Chicago Bears, including six NFC Central crowns and 1985
Super Bowl title.
	-- Dennis Erickson, head coach at University of Miami; has a
103-38-1 record in 12 years as college coach at Idaho, Wyoming,
Washington State and Miami.
	-- Lou Holtz, head coach at Notre Dame; has a 192-84-6 record in
24 years as a college coach at William & Mary, North Carolina
State, Arkansas, Minnesota and Notre Dame; went 3-10 as New York
Jets head coach in 1976.
	-- Barry Switzer, coached Oklahoma Sooners for 16 years with a
157-29-4 record. Resigned under pressure in 1988 because of rampant
problems in athletic department.

    
    >Barry Switzer is very used to running a pro franchise.  If he wasn't,
    >the NCAA wouldn't have bounced him out of OU.
    
    	Yup, but Barry never had to deal with a Salary Cap at Oklahoma!!
    :-)
    
    JimH
    

    >      Jones is killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. It's Johnson's
    
    After hearing and witnessing the actions of Jones treatment of Johnson 
    while under the influence, I'd like to personally thank him.  
    
    Thanks Jerry!  I'll never drink again!
    
    I remain sober,
    Mike

yabbut Jones will worry about the cap.

The Crazy Met

    How do you think Troy and Emmitt will do in bringing the wishbone to
    the NFL?

>>              <<< Note 60.517 by PATE::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>

>>	Johnson's resignation capped a long-standing feud that boiled


Sounds like Johnson resigned to me.  Of course, you're free to intrepret
that any way that suits you.

I remain,

borrowing from Kev' and able to nitpick with the best of 'em.

Jerry

    Jerry, I saw Jimmy interviewed this morning on TeeVee.  He said it was a
    mutual agreement.

>>              <<< Note 60.523 by PATE::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>
>>                      -< Straight from the horse's mouth >-

>>    Jerry, I saw Jimmy interviewed this morning on TeeVee.  He said it was a
>>    mutual agreement.

You win, Mac.  Even though the UPI article that you posted mentioned
Johnson's resignation, he didn't really resign.  It's just a dirty
trick that they're playing on us so that we can have enlightened
discussions such as this one.

Arguing with you is like wrestling with a pig.  You only get dirty and
the pig likes it.

Jerry

    Man I wish Waugamain was around this week..
    
    I believe glenn was a yung'un Okie from Muskokee when ol' Barry
    was runnin' that "best team money cain buy" Oklahoma Boomer Sooners
    in the 70's. He could give us the skinny on HonestBarry. 
    
    Barry's first official act will be to shine Aikman's cowboy boots.
    
    MikeL
    

    What's the beef, Jerry?  I'm only reporting what Jimmy said on National
    TV.  You're right, this contradicts the UPI article I pulled out of the
    American Football notesfile.  
    
    Maybe he did resign and Jimmy was only being polite.  Actually now that
    I think of it, he was asked if he was fired and the answer was no, it
    was a mutual agreement.

    re: 60.517
    
    Does anyone know the policy regarding reprints of articles in the clari
    newsgroups. I know we print plenty of them verbatim. I thought those
    were copyrighted. 
    
    

    
    
    		Yabbut I'm suprised that nobody has yet mentioned that
    there is a remote possibility that Jerry Jones may want to coach the
    'boys *HIMSELF*!!!!
    
    		This was reported on WBZ lasted night by some guy who
    has a NFL newletter and is frequently on the 'BZ fottball shows on
    Sunday mornings.  Name's something like Hazeltine?
    
    I remain,
    ready to nit in da broons note!
    Kev

re: CLARI.

Someone, somewhere, researched this and the opinion that I remember is
that it's OK as long as credit is given by supplying the header with the
copyright.

TTom

      Love spat = divorce!
    
      I heard Micheal Irvin was whining and crying about this.  Didn't hear
    anything about Emmitt.  Of course some of this will happen, but the way
    Irvin did it was showing that he is a spoiled baby.
    
      My 1st thoughts/expressions of this was deja-vu from Denver last year,
    then of course laughing alot, then breaking the news to the Dallas fan
    that I sit next to and not having a camera for the shocked/depressed look
    on his face (priceless).
    
      Don't cut the 'boys short of not winning next year.  FA and of course
    thw new coach will be the difference.
    
      Johnson did alot of great things in Dallas (obvious), but remember,
    Jerry Lynn of the Vikes made Johnson look great.  All those draft picks
    did it.  Johnson wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the
    Hershal trade.
    
      Tim
    
      

    re: .529
    
    that is correct re: clari
    
    Digital has a license for clari.*; it gets fed to all the usenet news
    feeds that want it and can be used elsewhere as long as the clari
    attribution is kept.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    TCM-Thanks for the info. Do Sports noters want to see stuff from Clari.
    How many use Usenet?

    yeah if it is appropriate we post from clari, but not all that often.
    Some folks here use usenet as well.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Sorry if it's a repeat, did a next/unseen...
    
    It's official - Switzer's the new head coach...
    

    Whew!  I'm glad Iron Mike didn't go to Dallas...  I would have hated to 
    root against him.
    
    The Bears got Wanny just in time.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    
    Now the 'boys fans are clinging to the hopes of Saint Ernie of Zampese? 
    The same Ernie Zampese that Rams fans were saying was gonna turn Jim
    Everettand the rest of the offense around?  Look how well Everett did
    under Zampese.  Is it football season yet???
    
    brews for boC

Re .505   Small oversite on my part.. Switzer was an assistant on the Arkansas
63 Nat'l team that the JJ's palyed on.


  Cadzilla2

    rep -.537
    
    Yea, but Everett ain't nothin. And he certainly is no Troy.
     
    By the way Everett played his Hi Scool foot ball right here in AL bU
    ker KEY.
    

    Interesting to see Troy Aikman's take on the hiring of Barry Switzer. 
    He stated last night that Switzer was the best motivational coach he's
    EVER played under.  Hmmmm, wasn't that Johnson's strong suit?
    
    - Rope

    >Yea, but [sic] Everett ain't nothin. And he certainly is no Troy.     
    
    Yabbut, that ain't what they were saying about Jim before Ernie got his
    hands on him.
    
    brews

    Jimmy Johnson is no saint in this whole matter. Me thinks he was
    looking for a way out ever since he  was "intrigued" by the
    Jacksonville offer and we all know he wants to  coach in Florida again.
    Might be Miami, might be Jacksonville but he'll be there 95-96. When
    Jerry said he would not let Jimmy go Jimmy waited and found an excuse
    (Jerrys's remarks) to get the ball rolling by bitching and moaning
    about what Jerry said. Hail, Jimmy's heard much worse remarks on the
    sidelines during games. He never intended to stay the 10 years anyhow.

    Remember, this is the same guy who used the Cowboys as an excuse to
    dump his wife. Now he is using Jerrys's remarks as an excuse to dump
    the Cowboys. He is waiting for that Florida offer which would now be a
    ligit offer.

 I'm sure if Jones wanted to talk raise (which he deserved) and stayed out of
 his hair, JJ would have forgotten all about the remarks and still be the 
 coach.

 mike 

As I see it Jimmy will get to talking to the Miami Dolphins and arrainge 
some deal that old Don Shula is allowed to retire after a 10-6 season and his
final playoff trip. 
Then in steps Jimmy Johnson long lost son of Miami "FOOTBALL" to lead the fish
out to sea. first move is to trade Marino to the colts for 12 first round picks 
and 7 players to be named later. 

Jeff

    Think Jimmah would asst. for a season?

I just gotta ask.  Has any coach every won Super Bowls with two
different teams?  I know that Don Shula took Baltimore and Miami
to Super Bowls, but I don't think that he won with Baltimore.

Also, has any coach ever won NFL championships (pre-Super Bowl) with
more than one team?

And, getting back to Switzer.  He's the Cowboys' third head coach.
The first two have two Super Bowl wins apiece.  Can Switzer get his
two? 

Jerry

    nope, no coach has won SB with different teams.
    
    I think Ewbank won with the Colts and then later he won with the Jets.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

	You might want to check out the SB V Colts that beat Dallas on Jim
Obrian's FG. Shula coached that team and then move to the Dolphins and won two
more SB's. 


 Cadzilla2

    Actually Switzer and JJ's Dallas organization deserve each other.  Who
    better to coach an organization that had to wait for a public outcry to
    give a terminally-ill child an autographed football.

>>                      <<< Note 60.548 by OLD1S::SYSTEM >>>
>>                        -< Somebody check the records >-
>>
>>
>>	You might want to check out the SB V Colts that beat Dallas on Jim
>>Obrian's FG. Shula coached that team and then move to the Dolphins and won two
>>more SB's. 

Are you sure?  I was thinking that Shula left the year before and that
someone else coached that team, maybe Ted Marchibroda.  Of course, I've
been wrong before.

Jerry

	 The more I think about Jerry's probably right. Shula was with the Colts
for SB III when the Jets won.  I'm quite sure if a coach had a Sb with two teams
we would have a trivia question.

 Does anyone have a league history book available to verify the question?

 Cadzilla2

    	I don't think Shula coached that Super Bowl V Colts team.  I
    thought it was Mike McCormack.  After watching Jones and Switzer
    on television don't you think that the only thing missing on Barry
    is a collar and leash?
    
    				 /Don

    'Twas Shula...saw an interview where he said that game was his lowest
    point as a coach.
    
    Mark.

    They're calling another press conference in Dallas in about 30 minutes. 
    It is expected that they'll name Tom Landry as their new offensive
    coordinator.

>>        <<< Note 60.554 by CAPNET::LEFEBVRE "PCBU Product Management" >>>
>>
>>    'Twas Shula...saw an interview where he said that game was his lowest
>>    point as a coach.

Now I'm really confused (nothing unusual).  Why would winning the
Super Bowl be someone's "lowest point as a coach".  This sounds to
me like a remark made about Shula's Colts losing to the Jets.
It was the next year that the Colts won it all, and that's the one
I'm wondering about.  The real question is:

Who coached the Baltimore Colts to their only Super Bowl victory?

Jerry

    Hahaha, Mikey.  You are just full of 'em today.

>>       <<< Note 60.555 by FRETZ::HEISER "another day in DECrestaurant" >>>
>>
>>    They're calling another press conference in Dallas in about 30 minutes. 
>>    It is expected that they'll name Tom Landry as their new offensive
>>    coordinator.

And Bob Lilly is coming out of retirement, too.  Only this time, he'll
play fullback, for league minimum wage, so that they won't have to
worry about re-signing Darryl Johnston.

Jerry

    re: shula
    
    lowest day as a coach was when he lost SB III.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Correct, TCM ...got confused with the years/Super Bowl rev.
    
    Mark.

    Daryll Johnston is gone to the 'Skins.

    Barry Switzer wants Tony Dorsett to come out of retirement to replace
    Daryll Johnston.

    Switzer has just waived Aikman and Norton and is going to sign Jamaal
    Halloway and Brian Bosworth.

    Don MCcaffrey coached the Colts in SB V victory.

Article 10131 of apr.local.foolball:
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP1)
Subject: Jones and Johnson back together - it was like a bad dream
Copyright: 1993 by AP1
Date: Friday, April 1, 1994
Location: texas
ACategory: national
Priority: regular
Format: regular
Approved: aprilnews@foolnet.com
Lines: 22

	DALLAS(AP1) - In a surprise announcement today, Dallas Cowboy
owner Jerry Jones has announced the firing of recently hired head
coach Barry Switzer, and the re-hiring of recently fired coach
Jimmy Johnson.  Earlier this week, Johnson announced his resignation
as head coach.  This was followed one day later by the announcement
that Barry Switzer, former head coach of the University of Oklahoma,
would replace Johnson.

Barry Switzer is unavailable for comment, but unnamed sources have
stated that Switzer is both surprised and dissapointed by this
sudden turn of events, and is considering legal action against
Jones.

In a press conference earlier today, Jones stated "This has been like
a terrible dream.  Jimmy and I have been the best of friends of years,
and I just wasn't able to go through with this.  Jimmy and I are
back together now, and that's all that counts."

Jones also said that his decision to re-hire Jones was influenced by
long-time friend and Dallas oil and gas tycoon, J. R. Ewing.

Johnson is not available for comments and his whereabouts is unknown
at this time.

    	
    	April Fool's

     Yep, this place is full of em  :-)

    Don't you think it's kind of ironic that Tony Casillas leaves and
    Switzer was his college coach?

     Nope, he wants the bucks, already has the rings.

    Well what is this I see today the 2 guys that were all set to jump
    ship to another team Darryl Johnston and Nate Newton were resigned
    by the Super Bowl champs just as Jerry Jones predicted...wow this team
    is really falling apart as the experts say...so far ZERO impact players
    lost to FA..and these 2 guys were supposedly signed and sealed to other
    teams....I guess Barry must be a hell of a talker to convince these
    guys to forget about JJ....I also heard that Irvin is no longer upset
    about the coaching change.
    
    
    Tom

    It sounds like Alvin Harper is leaving though.  You still have Norton
    to worry about too.

	The Steelers and the Redskins had made offers to Johnson.  Apparently
	Dallas made a better one.

	The Steelers were trying to fill the hole left by Merril Hoge, but I 
	think the 'skins were mearly trying to drive up Dallas' salary.


	billl

    re .571
    
    Harper can go he won't be missed,and Norton will most certainly be
    back going for the 3 peat..........you can take that to the bank about
    Norton.
    
    
    Tom

Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but it's quite possible that even
with a solid core of players returning, a coaching change in the season
following a Super Bowl win can be disastrous.

Ask the Giants, and ask the Redskins....


This is gonna be interesting, no doubt about it.....


'Saw

    - first you lose Turner, you still need a new OC
    - you lose probably the best head coach in the NFL and replacing him
      with a guy that hasn't walked the sidelines in at least 6 years and
      now has to deal with a salary cap, unlike his last job
    - you lost Tony Casillas, don't tell me that doesn't hurt
    - you lost half your OL
    - your 2nd best WR says he's leaving
    - your middle LB is looking for the best $$ offered and probably won't
      stay
    
    ...and then you say there's nothing to worry about?!  It's gonna take a
    lot more than Troy, Emmitt, and Michael to win another ring.

>    besides, how many times have you told us the Giants hired a boob?

Did you see Switzer at the press conference?


As to the Niners, hey, more power to 'em, but I've got two that augered in
the next season, and one that came back to take it again......

re,575


   It took more than Troy, Emmitt and Micheal to win it the last two years.
Only time will tell. The talent they have left is still better than 95 % of the 
league.  Nearly every team in the league is going through the salary cap
transition. Next season will be quite interesting to say the least. 

 Cadzilla2