Conference napalm::guitar

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Note 1481.0              Boss BE-5B Pedalboard for Bass                4 replies
AQUA::ROST "Chickens don't take the day off"         10 lines  16-SEP-1989 20:06
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    Boss has added an new multi-effects pedal, the BE-5B for bassists.
    According to the new GP, it is a floor unit, like the BE-5 for guitar,
    and has compressor/limiter, exciter/distortion, graphic EQ and 
    delay/flange/chorus on board.  No idea on price, but I would guess in
    the $350-400 ballpark lioke the BE-5.
    
    I could have used one of these five years ago when I was doing top 40.
    
    							Brian
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Note 1481.3              Boss BE-5B Pedalboard for Bass                   3 of 4
AQUA::ROST "Subliminal trip to nowhere"              15 lines  15-NOV-1989 15:23
                             -< It's Here, But... >-
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    The BE-5B has arrived finally.  Saw but did not hear one today.  Quoted
    a price of $345 at Daddy's in Shrewsbury, MA.
    
    You get four effects: Limiter (threshold and level controls),
    Overdrive/enhancer (drive, tone, level and enhance controls), ten band
    graphic EQ (starting at 31.5Hz and going up in octaves, with a level
    control) and a delay/chorus/flanger (six knobs total, including "effect
    level", this is a wet/dry mix, maybe?).  Conspicuously absent is the
    noise supressor of the BE-5.  
    
    I still may audition one, but the mix of effects isn't quite what I can
    use.
    
    						Brian

    
    Note #1006 covers the Scholz Bass Rockman headphone amp.

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                              -<  Guitar Notes  >-
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Note 1890.17             The Offical Bass "Playing" Note                17 of 19
MILKWY::JACQUES "If you don't stop, you'll go deaf"  29 lines  10-JUL-1990 08:44
                               -< re. Bass efx >-
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    Dan,  
    
    	I'm not sure how much chorusing would enhance the bass, but 
    Flange definately does if used sparingly. The last band I was in
    did a slow melodic tune by a Girl named Judy Roberts entitled
    "Madame Blues". Our bass player kicked in a flanger for this tune
    and it definately added a nice twist to the bass tone. I have 
    played my bass through my MidiverbII and it sounds really nice
    through the fanger. MidiverbII's have a full band of flange efx to
    choose from (10 differant flange patches) and they can be picked 
    up very cheap. I've seen them around $150.00 used. The *mix* control
    on the midiverbII allows you to vary the effect from very subtle
    to very heavy.
    
     	I see all kinds of efx advertised for bass and I have to wonder
    how many bass players actually use them and whether they enhance or
    detract from the sound. The latest one I'm seeing is the Digitech
    Bass harmonizor. Another thing I've seen that I question is the use
    of Whammy's on basses. Steinberger makes a bass with their trans-trem
    whammy-bridge system. Kahler also makes whammy bridges for bass.
    
	The one thing I would try to avoid when adding efx to bass is anything
    that could make it sound muddy. It's hard enough to produce a nice
    clear well-defined bass tone without adding something to muddy it up.
    Years ago, a lot of bass players were using wah-wah pedals on bass. 
    I suppose a few people used it effectively, but in most cases it
    sounded pretty redundant. Perhaps an envelope follower that sweeps
    the filter frequency up would be neat (used very sparingly).
    
    	A friend of mine used to use a set of "Taurus" (sp?) pedals. 
    I know nothing about these accept that they are bass synth pedals. 
    Anyone ever try these ?
    
    	Mark
     
            

    
    Re: .3
    
    The Kahler bass tremelo (why do they call them that, they are
    *vibrato* units) is officially discontinued.
    
    As far as chorus/flange go, ever since Jaco fired up a Lexicon delay,
    bassists have been chorusing themselves to *death*.  A recent
    development has been chorus pedals for bass that split the signal and
    only chorus the high end, so the fundamental doesn't wash out or sound
    out of tune.  Peavey has started to offer high-pass effects loops on
    bass amps for this purpose (they even sell a chorus pedal with a
    crossover built-in, for budget biamping).
    
    Using effects like flange/chorus on bass is tricky, a little bit goes a
    *long* way.  Every time I hear fretless bass through a chorus I want to
    gag...Jaco made it his, everyone else, please find something else to do,
    OK?  
    
    What about fuzz bass?  After everyone messed with it in the 60s, it
    kind of died out (although Jaco used to kick in some fuzz on his live
    solos).  One guy who took it to extremes was Hugh Hopper (with bands
    like Soft Machine and Isotope) where he got a remarkable horn-like
    timbre, very hip stuff.
    
    The undeniable pioneer of bass FX was Electro-Harmonix, who offered
    boxes for bass before anybody else thought of it.  Two in particular
    that were interesting:
    
    Mole/Hog's Foot
    
    The name depends on whether it's in the "plug-into-the-amp" box (Mole)
    or a stomp box (Hog).  Same circuit, this is the classic LPB-1 power
    booster modified with a filter so that it works as a bass booster.  It
    cuts out a lot of your high end and muddies up the bottom.  So what,
    you say?  Want to go from a crisp Rick twang to some rub-a-dub reggae
    thump?  Here you go...
    
    Bassballs
    
    Whatta name.  It was basically an envelope-follwoing filter, but
    instead of sounding like a wah, this one sounded more like a
    flanger or phaser sweep.  It also had a switch to kick in a dsitortion
    circuit which accentuated the upper harmonics, providing a more
    dramatic filter sweep effect.
    
    							Brian

        Regarding the discussion earlier about `Compressors'.
        
        I have  a  built  in Compressor in my Yamaha amp, and I don't
        use it.  Main reason being, that when I'm playing the strings
        (two finger method) I  get  a very noticable `POP' out of the
        speaker  instead  of  a  smooth  tone.    This  is  with  the
        compressor at four to five on the dial, tops !  Anything less
        seemed to affect the volume too much.   I  reached  the point
        where I just left it off and keep the volume down to four.
        
        However,  this  past  Saturday  afternoon,  I  went to a  jam
        session  and  decided to see how  my little 15 Watt  practice
        amp would do as a pre-amp.  (Since it has an overdrive switch
        on  it.    :^)) With both of these amps connected as such,  I
        didn't  have  to turn either amp over 2 on the dial.  If  I'd
        done so, I would've been blowing out windows.  The compressor
        was  also  set to 2  and  I  didn't  experience  the  POP  as
        mentioned earlier.  Only problem now  is  that  I'm getting a
        feedback  hum  which  I'm  going to try  eliminating  with  a
        heavily shielded patch cable.
        
        Something  to  ponder, but the overdrive added a VERY  smooth
        fuzz to the tone of the bass.  It's amazing what a little $70
        amp can do for ya' ! :^)
        
        Matt

    
    	Has anybody seen the latest invention from the Wilkinson dude
    	that invented the Wilkonson roller nut. His latest offering is
    	a kit which allows you to convert a 4 string Fender-style bass
    	to a 5 string without any radical mods. It is called the 4+1
    	bass conversion kit. The kit consist of the following.
             
    	    1. First of all the kit provides a replacement string guide
    	which holds the ball end of the extra string.
    
    	    2. Second of all the kit includes a 5 string nut.
    
    	    3. Third the kit has a replacement bridge, which has an
    	integral tuner for the extra string. 
    
    	The resulting Bass still has only four tuners on the neck. The
    	ball end of the extra string is attached to the string guide, and
    	tunes up on the bridge. You can either add a low b or high b
        string. It is necessary to drill a couple of new holes to mount 
        the bridge, but if you later decide to convert back to four strings, 
        these holes get covered up by the original bridge, and no one will 
        ever know it's been modified. I read a product profile in one of the 
        latest guitar rags (I think Guitar Player) and they gave it favorable 
        reviews. The system lists for ~$175.00 but if you consider it saves 
        you from dumping your present bass or buying an additional
        instrument, it may be worth the investment for some players. 
    
    	Mark Jacques
    

    I saw a Fender bass that was fitted with one of these recently and it
    looked really slick.  Seems like it's a well done kit.
    
    Greg

    re -2 yep that sounds really great....I'll have to check it out....
    anyway back to the  business at hand............I use a variety of
    effects for the bass:
                       1.peavey midi pedal board
                        (programmable patching+stereo out)
                       2.blue tube preamp (stomp box)
                       3.boss chorus
                       4. "   bass flanger  
                       5. "   envelope filter
                       6. "   pitch shift/delay
                       (usually set for a octave down-
                       to thicken out fretless lines)
    
    It's important to use stuff sparingly otherwise you lose the function
    of the bass in the band (imho anyway!) but it's nice when you're
    playing a new song with your band and someone says "it's good- but it
    needs a little something right here" so you step on the pedalboard and
    addn a little dash of distortion or something to your recipe at a break
    and it spices up the part really nicely. I also find that if you play
    funk a few of these have become almost required.......
    -catch y'all on a bounce!!!
    -Bill

    The band I'm curently in is going to be regrouping and we've talked
    about going for a more modern sound.  Well, for us "more modern" is a
    pretty vague term since we've spent most of our five years together
    getting more and more retro in our approach.  Maybe I should say
    "contemporary".
    
    One thing we think we need to do is go for more of a processed sound,
    something I'm not averse too, but I'm somewhat confused.  I've spent a
    little bit of time with the Boss BE-5B multi-FX and might want to check
    out the A5-Bass from Korg, but have some reservations.
    
    Maybe I'm out of touch, but do people really *use* these effects (other
    than the Earth Movers....ha ha)?  The typical recipe seems to be a
    compressor/limiter-->exciter-->EQ-->chorus/flange/delay/reverb.  On the
    Boss they add a distortion and leave out the reverb, the Korg splits the
    chorus/flange out from the delay/reverb.  
    
    My current amp has a limiter and a flexible EQ already.  I suppose if I
    look at the EQ as an *effect*, maybe having another might be useful,
    but it doesn't seem to be such a big deal; if the bass and amp give me
    a good clean tone why would I want to EQ it to death?
    
    The exciter thing escapes me.  The one in the BE5B seemes to do almost
    nothing.  There was a detectable midrange drop at full intensity, at
    lower settings it seemed to do nothing useful.
    
    That leaves delay-type effects.  With only 5 presets on the Korg, I
    could probably get by OK.  The Boss would be ridiculous, bending over
    to tweak the thing between songs.  Yecchh.
    
    I notice noone seems to make rack-mount bass FX boxes.  But when I
    check out the plastic construction of the Korg and Boss (they really
    want you to *step* on these?) the flimsy power cord setups, etc.  I'm
    thinking that I'd be better off with a good rack-mount delay
    box...which I already own one of.
    
    If some bassist out there wants to give me some examples of where
    they use these other effects I'd be interested in hearing about it.
    
    						Brian
    
    					     The Old Fart

I'm not a bass player (nor do I play one on TV!), but just a general comment;

It seems like a lot of the "contemporary" bass players aren't using a lot of
effects, but they do seem to be going for a more trebly tone. 

I know that's not real informative, but its just that it seems like today's 
bassist's job is not just to hold down the low end - a lot of time it provides 
the melody line. Listen to the new REM album for examples, on songs like 
"Texarkana" or "Losing My Religion" - while the guitarist is playing chords, 
the bass player is playing some kind of melodic line underneath it, with a 
sorta Rickenbacker tone.

alan

     Dear Old Fart,
    the thing to remember is what are you trying to achieve?
    I use a lot of pedals but I try to play exclusively in
    a trio setting and like to be able to fill up spaces in
    the group sound and mimic the sound of another instrument
    such as a keyboard or guitar.Chorus ond or flanging are
    invaluble for this.In conjunction witha distortion box/tube 
    driverthe sound can be quite impressive,especially with an eight string
    bass.
    more later,
    -Bill    

    An 8 string bass? I don't thinks I've evere seen/heard of such a thing.
    Is that like a twleve string guitar with each string doubled/octaved?
    Or is it 8 "different" notes when all strings are played open?
    
    						/Bill_the_very_curious_one
    

    A slight flange (very slight, more like a filter notch) is very
    effective for hard rock/metal in bringing the bass out from under
    the dinn of super-distorted guitars into the forefront of the mix.

    Re: .10, .11
    
    Well, I'm figuring to get away from the thumpy 50s/60s tone I've been
    using to a more contemporary sound I already can do the following:
    
    1.  Take out the foam I stuffed under the strings at the bridge  8^)
    
    2.  Play more often with a pick.
    
    3.  Use the treble boost on my bass for a brighter tone.
    
    4.  Use the limiter on my amp for a more compressed sound.
    
    5.  Change my strings more often (I leave 'em on for 6 months).
    
    6.  Mousse my hair  8^)  8^)
    
    I already own a chorus stomper and a delay rack unit which I can use,
    and the amp has a pair of FX loops so it's a question of what else
    would I reasonably need.  I'm figuring the companies stuff things into
    bass multi-FX units because bass players say they need them and use
    them.  I just haven't been out to *see* any contemporary rock bands for
    years...but I certainly don't hear gobs of fuzzed out and delayed bass
    riffing going on when I turn on the radio, eh?  
    
    						Brian

    re: 8 string bass
    
    Yes, the one's I've seen have had each string doubled, like on a 12
    string guitar.  Looks interesting...
    
    Greg

I listen to a lot of "alternative"  type music and I don't hear much
FX type stuff going on. A little chorus and EQ seems to go a long
way. 

Recently, I've found that a good EQ goes a long way toward
getting different bass tones. For example, a really good 
HM bass tone can be had by doing a sharp boost at 2k. Really
brings out that tone. 

Alan had mentioned the R.E.M. stuff. All that stuff was done
on some kind of old P-basses. Dunno what kind of FX, but I
didn't hear anything obvious  like serious delay, flanges or
other stuff. 

IMHO, yer all set for FX. You might consider a 2x10 cab
to get more of that upper midrange stuff. 

What do you consider contemporary sounding?

-T
(Who's not real big on bass FX)_

    re 8 string bass:

    It's worse than that.  8 string basses have been around since at least
    the 60's, when Noel Redding was often seen with a Hagstrom model.  The
    latest rage though is a 12 string bass, where each of the 4 normal bass
    strings is doubled by *2* octave strings.  Some famous players noted for
    using these are Tom Peterson from Cheap Trick and the bass player from
    King's X; I believe their's are both made by Hamer.  Nick Lowe describes
    the sound of his 12 as "like a trainwreck".

    These type of basses are especially useful in power trio settings,
    allowing the bass to function partially as a rhythm guitar; check out
    "Live at Budokan" or "Live at Leeds" for reference.

    I suppose the logical extension of this idea is an 18 string bass; a 6
    string (the Anthony Jackson Heavy Metal model?) with 2 octave strings per.
    If you had one of these, changing strings and retubing your SVT in the
    same month could require a second mortgage :-)

    /rick_still_working_on_4

Hi Brian !

I know of at least one FX rack system (ok. half sized) for bass that's the
YAMAHA FX500B. It may be already reviewed in one of the magazines. I'll have a
look.

Since you already have some effects, I would suggest that you try to borrow the
FX500B user's guide from a shop. In the back (at least of the normal FX500) is
a complete list of sounds with all the parameters. You could then try to
replicate that with your effects and check the results. I've done that with
FX500 and my SPX900 with quite good results.

If you do so, I would be glad to receive a copy of those pages, as it may be
interesting also to try these with bass sounds from my synths.

This brings me back to the idea to have generic description of FX parameters so
that the settings of let's say a QuadraVerb can be brought over to ME-5 or so.

	best regards

		Richard

    Re: .17
    
    Yo, Rick, Tom Petersson beat you to the idea...he had Modulus build
    him an 18 string a few years ago, it's pictured in an old GP. The
    graphite neck is needed due to the string tension.
    
    Re: .18
     
    Richard, thanks for the suggestion.  The delay unit I already own is a
    Yamaha SPX-50D, a precursor to the FX-500. Actually, the SPX is a good
    box for live use, since it has the ability to build a "chain" of
    effects so you can step through your presets without needing an
    expensive MIDI footpedal, and there is a built-in loop so you can kick
    in another effect under control of the SPX.  I suspect that's what I'll
    end up using, rather than buying any new stuff.
    
    As far as "generic" effects parameters, remember that we're talking
    software here and it's doubtful that any two manufacturers use the
    parameters in exactly the same way.  For instance, when you adjust
    "diffusion" on a reverb, what the heck is that and if the parameter
    goes from 0 to 63 is that linear, logarithmic, exponential, etc.?
    
    						Brian

	I've checked out my bass thru my DigiTech DSP256. There are
	very few effects that are really worth while. Small amounts
	of chorus or flange work well. Delay is very sloppy except
	for 4-taps with very low delay times (>20 msec.) for a ringing
	metalic sound. In this case there are certain frequencies that
	get out of hand it I don't notch them in the parametric before
	the delay. Reverb and bass also don't cut it except when room
	size is about the size of the box on an acoustic bass guitar -
	then it sounds real nice.

	For effected bass sounds, check out The Cure, Sugar Cubes,
	or New Order. Take another listen to "One of These Days" on
	Pink Floyd's Meddle album for a good hard slap echo. EQ off the
	low end, distort the rest and make like Lemmy. 

	Better yet - 
	take the gear ya got, dial up a grossly overprocessed sound, and
	wring something musical out of it.

    I may be in the market for some effects very soon. What do fellow,
    noting bassists recommend? I already have a flanger (one of the old
    Electro-Harmonix jobs) but I'm more than willing to part company with
    it if anyone can tell me about an "all in one" effect that incorporates
    flanging.
    
    Wants: Compression, reverb/echo (gotta be clean echo).
    
    Suggestions, anyone? I'm talking around the 300 pound/450 dollar mark
    as a guideline for you all,
    
    Thanks
    
    Phil

    All I use on bass is compression and either a flanger, or chorus.
    
    Simple yet effective!
    
    
    Rock on,
    	   Fred

    I agree with the keep it simple philosophy.  I have tried numerous toys
    over the years and usually end up canning them.  I now occasionally
    use a BOSS Chorus and that's it.
    
    Lars