Conference 7.286::digital

>    QUESTIONS:
>    
>    "[1]If YOU were asked to submit to a drug test TODAY, right now, what
>    would you DO?
    
    I would AGREE to it.
    
>    Please indicate whether your answer to [1] above would differ
>    under the following circumstances:
>    
>    	SCENARIO A	where refusal would in no way penalize the
>    			employee.
    
    No difference (obviously).
    
>    	SCENARIO B	where refusal would have some definite negative
>    			effect but would not result in termination,
>    			demotion or reduction in pay.
    
    No difference.
    
>    	SCENARIO C	where refusal equates to insubordination, and
>    			would likely result in termination.
    
    No difference.
    
>    [2]What effect do you suppose your reaction would have on your
>    current project or work group (please do *not* discuss specific
>    projects or groups by name)?"
    
    I am not exactly sure what you are asking (are you saying that your 
    response to a request for a drug test would be made public ? - or are
    you talking about the above responses I just gave ?)
    
    Actually, in either case there would be no adverse effect on the work
    group or project.
    
    - mayank
      

Re: .0

    "[1]If YOU were asked to submit to a drug test TODAY, right now, what
    would you DO?
    
		I'd refuse to take the test.  I would be willing to sign a
		statement that I wasn't using illegal drugs, FWIW.

    	SCENARIO A	where refusal would in no way penalize the
    			employee.
    
		Business as usual...

    	SCENARIO B	where refusal would have some definite negative
    			effect but would not result in termination,
    			demotion or reduction in pay.
    
		I'd start looking for a way to transfer to another group
		where testing wouldn't be a requirement.

    	SCENARIO C	where refusal equates to insubordination, and
    			would likely result in termination.
    
		I'd start circulating resumes to other companies ASAP.  It
		might be a lengthy job search...
                                                    
    [2]What effect do you suppose your reaction would have on your
    current project or work group (please do *not* discuss specific
    projects or groups by name)?"
      
                In the long run no one is indispensible, but in the short run
		if I left it would be a setback; someone would have to take
		over my current assignment, which would reduce/delay the
		group's	ability to start new projects.  (Given the terms of
		the question I can't get much more specific than that.)

				-- Bob

    1]
    
    a] Respectfully decline.
    
    b] Respectfully decline, call personnel, flame in NOTES.
    
    c] Respectfully decline, call my lawyer.
    
    2] Not much, they know I'm nuts.  (Of course, if I were to get a
    nice settlement, there'd probably be a lot of refusals, not necessarily
    for the same reasons as mine.)
              
    
    FWIW I doubt that anything would have shown up had I agreed.
    
    

    
    Since I have nothing to hide, I gladly submit to any test.
    
    #ed
    

        Since, I have nothing to hide, and feel that nothing will happen
        about the drug "problem" without some affirmative action from the
        "silent majority", I will gladly take the tests.
        
        But do I get a prize for coming through clean. I can just imagine
        lapel badges - "Tested 100% drug free"
        
        q
        

Not only will I gladly submit to a drug test by my employer, something that I
feel is every true Americans duty but I feel all employees should be alcohol
and tobacco tested as well. After all I have nothing to hide, and these
insidious problems must be stopped now. Lastly I would like to take the initiative
and propose installation of movie cameras in all employees homes. Again what
true American won't give up a few constitutional rights for their company and
country?
                                 

    A - refuse
    B - refuse
    C - refuse and call a lawyer

    
    A: Refuse
    B: Refuse and begin a job search (perhaps within Digital)
    C: Accept and begin a very active job search outside Digital
    

	A: Refuse
	B: Refuse and start looking
	C: Refuse and start looking

	Roy

    A: Refuse
    B: Refuse
    C: Refuse, call lawyer, ACLU, state reps, and state attorney general
       (then start getting really noisy)
    
    Current project is already understaffed - leaving during a period
    when new hires/transfers are restricted.

    
    I.
    	A: Refuse
    	B: Refuse, voice my opinion, and start looking (in house and
    	   out).
    	C: Take it, voice my opinion, and start looking.
    
    II.    
    	It depends on how many people agree with me.  If there were a
    	mass migration out of the group, there would be obvious problems.
        
    SPW

    I
    
    A: Respectfully decline.
    B: Respectfully decline, and say why.  
    C: Take it, say why I think it's _not_ doing the right thing,
       and make sure KO gets a copy of my reasoning.
    
    II
    
    Nobody is irreplacable, functionally; the work would get done, though
    at extra pain to others.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    [1] refuse.
      [a] refuse
      [b] refuse
      [c] resign, thus avoiding the issue
    
    [2] little; I am not irreplaceable.
        John Sauter

    
    I.
    	A: Refuse
    	B: Refuse
    	C: Refuse, offer to have my own doctor do the test, start looking
    
    II.    
	My group would be hurt but the decision is Digital's.        

    A: refuse
    B: refuse
    C: call an attorney, indicate to ACLU that my contributions were really
    a retainer, refuse
    
    /s/ Jim Williams

To:	REGENT::LEVINE
Subj:	Anonymous response to 883

A:  Refuse

B:  Refuse, possibly consult a lawyer (depending on the "negative" response).

C:  Refuse, consult a lawyer, probably sue.

    [1]
    A: refuse politely
    B: refuse and look for another job in Digital
    C: refuse and get a lawyer and the ACLU involved.
    
    [2]
    My group would muddle through, although they would end up in panic mode
    from time to time since I'm a Dept Coordinator and they don't always
    know what it is I do.

    1 A - refuse
      B - refuse and think about getting a lawyer
      C - refuse and engage a lawyer
    
    2 Nobody is indispensible.
    
    Jon

    
    
    
    Same answer applies to all three scenarios since I don't do drugs and
    just barely manage to drink a six pack of beer a year.
    
    A- take the test - with my lawyer present, papers in hand charging
       invasion of privacy and any other legal mumbo jumbo he can come up
       with. 

    Under A,B, and C, I would gladly submit to required testing, with
    a request that the tests be verified by an independent laboratory.
    
    -- Don Black

    Since I asked the question it is only fair that I answer it...
    I came to work for Digital because I thought ( and still hope)
    that the corporate culture stressed respect for the dignity and
    rights of its employees. That factor was far more important than
    any other in my decision making process.  I hope that my faith
    was not misplaced. 
    
    [1]
    	[a]	refuse to take test, continue in current position while
    		selectively interviewing with other companies. Leave
    		Digital as soon as I found another company with more concern
    		for an employee's civil rights and privacy.  
    	[b]	refuse to take test, actively seek position with another
    		company.Leave Digital as soon as I found another company
    		with more concern for an employee's civil rights and
    		privacy.
    	[c]	submit to test (I am not a drug user so the test will
    		not be a problem...) but document that I have submitted
    		under protest, and that my livelyhood and ability to
    		support my family were held ransom. Take MAXIMUM legal
    		action. Leave Digital as soon as I found another company
                with more concern for an employee's civil rights and
                privacy.
                      
    [2]	
    		I believe that *anyone* leaving our group any time in
    		the next 12 months would cause at least two products
    		to slip by at least one fiscal quarter. I estimate the
    		impact due to that slippage plus the ramp-up of any
    		new hire to be in the six digit range. 

    [1] a. Refuse
    
    	b. Refuse and look around for another job inside or outside
    	   DEC
    
    	c. Refuse and hire a lawyer
    
    [2] probably no impact....i can be replaced
    
    

          <<< HUMAN::DISK$HUMAN_WRKD:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;2 >>>
                          -< The DEC way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 883.18                     What will YOU do?                       18 of 23
REGENT::LEVINE                                       22 lines   4-AUG-1989 09:31
                  -< Posted Anonymously at author's request >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To:	REGENT::LEVINE
Subj:	DRUG TESTING

A) Although I neither do drugs nor condon there use, I would absolutly
not consent to any type of drug testing.

B) Same response.

C) May submit to test while looking for a new job.

Testing would not have an immediate effect on the group that I am currently in
other than a major moral drop. Any company that submits to invasions of privacy
such as this is not a good company to work for. I feel monitoring employees
marital relationships and home life would be much more productive in terms of
increasing productivity and reducing absenteism. I reccomend movie cameras in
the homes of all employees to be monitored by the company and possibly a new
branch of the government. We could call the branch the," In Home Spie Service"
(IHSS) or just SS for short.

My response annonymous...

Same as 883.22- Submit A,B,C but insist on verification.

a) refuse
b) refuse, check with my lawyer
c) refuse, call lawyer, ACLU, several levels of representatives,
		and then start to make real noise.

I have nothing to hide, so I would take the test in all circumstances.
Although I believe that I have a right to privacy, Digital also has 
a vested interest in my performance on my job.  

I don't know if I'd like it if it were just a random test for no 
reason, but if there were indications of performance problems, and 
drug/alcohol abuse were suspected, I see no reason for Digital taking
this action.  But, as I said, Digital has its interest to protect, and
I believe they have a right to ask for the tests.


Part II.

NOone is indispensible, although some hardship may fall on the group
in which they work.  It would be hard on my group if I left, mainly 
because one of the three workers in my group recently moved to another
job, and the position is still unfilled.  However, life would go 
on,and the job would get done.


-bill

Oops.

The last part of the second paragraph shoudl say

"I see no reason for Digtial NOT taking this action"


-bill

To paraphrase a former president "let me say this about that".

Under NO circumstances would I let myself be tested... and furthermore
I resent the idea (as .5 implied) that only guilty parties need be 
afraid. Sounds like .5 is ex Sen. McCarthy in disguise.

As to what I would do...

Scenario A - Respectfully decline

Scenario - B Respectfully decline

Scenario - C - Respecfully decline and if it did indeed lead to my 
termination I believe that I would see my lawyer.

How would this affect my current project or group?

probably very little if any at all but, I wouldnt care.

- George

    Don't smoke, can't drink and don't do drugs or non RX types
    
    Can't say that I could go along with testing for the sake of testing -
    but it would be interesting to see the results as my blood, with all the
    RX's I am required to take to function normally, would prob blow the
    machine off the scale. 
    
    As to part 2, I found out long time ago the if you are indespensible(?)
    they better take you out behind the barn and shoot you because you have
    put your self in a useless position. In other words if we can't
    function without you what are we going to do when you are GONE.
    
    Jan
    

    I would take the test under all conditions [A] [B] and [C].
    I would ask a lot of questions about my rights first and if I didn't
    care for the answers, take the test under protest.
    
    I am easily replaceable (as if that should make a difference).

[1]

Refuse

Refuse, look for another job in company

Refuse, get together with the other refuseniks and maybe start up a new company.

/Harley

    I don't believe that only guilty parties have something to hide
    (hey, I respect everyone's opinion, even if it doesn't agree with
    me and as long as it isn't stuffed down MY throat), but I also don't
    believe it is an infrigement as long as the test is done for some
    legitimate reason (not, we just wanna see....)
    
    In cases of A B and C I would take it, certainly B and C with a
    bit more resentment than A (I don't care for being strongarmed,
    thanks).
    
    As for part two, yes, I am replaceable.  Anyone can push paper.
    But then again, any job is replaceable, too.
    
    kim

    1
    	A	Refuse.
    
    	B	Refuse.
    
    	C	Visit the software engineering open house down the road,
    		consult a lawyer.
    
    
    				-- edp

1.  A.	Refuse.

    B.	Refuse and consider looking for another job.

    C.	This is a tough one.  I would prefer to refuse, but economic
	pressure might force me to submit (I don't do drugs, so I should
	pass okay).  In either case, I would certainly start looking for
	another job, and would pursue whatever legal action I could afford.

2.  I'm certainly not indispensable in the long term, but my leaving would
    definitely hurt my project in the short term, possibly causing it to 
    miss a deadline.

    1a refuse
    1b refuse,ODP
    1c resign noisily, reopen my consulting biz
    
    2 6months later they'll wonder how I'm doing.
    
    I resent Ed Badger's attempts to SOAPBOX in this Q&A
    
    karl

    A. refuse
    B. refuse
    C. piss on the floor. Keep missing the bottle while trying to
    cooperate.
    
    I think I'd also ask for the documentation concerning my performance
    that leads them to believe that I'm on drugs. I'd ask to see the
    details on the testing firm as well; these tests have a relatively
    high degree of error.
    
    I'm glad this is hypothetical. One of the reasons I like working
    at DEC is that something like mandatory drug testing is completely
    against the corporate culture.

    Glad to comply under any condition.  No problem at all.

    Refuse under Scenarios A and B.  Comply under scenario C,
    but maybe start looking for a new job.
    
    I don't think anyone in this group would really care one way
    or the other about what I'd do.

THe answer is *NO*! even at gun-point never mind at only the threat of 
disciplinary action.

You cannot compromise a moral principle! you do not submit to someone else
taking away your rights.

2. everyone upto and including KO is replaceable. that question has nothing to 
do with the issue of allowing someone to decide you are guilty when there
is no proof that a crime has even been commited.

Amos

I a) Refuse
  b) Refuse, but probably stay in the same job (at least for a while) just
     to be ornery
  c) Retain, and consult with, a good lawyer to determine whether the most
     lucrative settlement could be obtained by refusal or submssion, and
     act accordingly. If submission were deemed appropriate, I would also
     manage to have both hands in casts at the time of testing such that
     someone else would need to hold the bottle, as per .38.

II Probably little impact due to non-irreplacable status as listed by
   many, however as also mentioned, that wouldn't necessarily be my
   problem to worry about.

-Jack

    "[1]If YOU were asked to submit to a drug test TODAY, right now, what
    would you DO?
    
Not hestitate to say YES

    [2]What effect do you suppose your reaction would have on your
    current project or work group (please do *not* discuss specific
    projects or groups by name)?"
      
NONE                                  

    I would happily take the test under all the mentioned circumstances.  

    A. Refuse
    
    B. Refuse
    
    C. Refuse
    
    	1) Send Resume to refusniks new company.
    
    	2) Contact the ex-DEC lawyers who have organized the class action
           suit.
    
    	3) Sell clean dog urine in the parking lot on test days.
    
    	4) Send letter to Digital Review.
    
    	5) Print up humorous T-shirts about DEC and urine testing and sell
           them in parking lots at:
    
    			-DEC
    			-HP
    			-SUN
    			-IBM (low sales expected due to lack of humor)
    			-Honeywell
    			-Wang
    			-Prime
    			-DG
    			-Celtics Games
    			-etc.
    
    :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
    
    /brett

    While I doubt if drug testing will hit my group for some time, and
    while I don't do drugs (so in theory wouldn't be at risk :-)), I'd
    have to decline in all three cases.  I spent quite a bit of time
    thinking about this and my belief is that for me to be effective at my
    job DEC has to trust me.  Without that trust I will be incapable of
    performing my job (Someone tell me how you can sell an OS to a customer
    for a mission critical application if you believe it was designed, coded,
    and tested by bums).
    
    So, I don't see any alternatives:
    
    A, B, C: Resign at the earliest opportunity.
    
    Effect on my project: Like everyone else, I can be replaced.
    
    Jim.

    
    A. refuse
    B. refuse
    C. I'd honestly have to talk this one over with my family, since my
       dismissal would severely affect all of us. I would gladly
       participate in the resulting class-action suit. I also like the
       "clean dog urine" suggestion.

     1)
       
     a) Respectfully decline
     b) Respectfully decline, seek transfer to new group, 
	flame in NOTES.

     c) Refuse.  
        1). Then call my lawyer to explore possible class action suit.
        2). Start a religious war 8^)
	3). Circulate my resume, seek interview with Refusenicks, Inc.
	4). Assist in selling the "I survived DECurine '90" T-shirts to
	    non-refusenicks in parking lots (^; :')
    
     2) IMHO, not much.  Of course there'd be some scrambling to get another
	delivery person to cover my assignments - but the seas wouldn't stay
	parted for very long.


	-Jp

    
    a) I would refuse.
    
    b) Refuse and protest any negative consequences.
    
    c) Submit. Job performance would instantly drop from loss of morale.
       My long term career plans would certainly no longer include DEC.
    
    Individual job performance problems are already being handled every
    day by the managers and others in this company, whether drug-related
    or not; a random or blanket drug test policy would not result in
    any overall improvement in productivity. Digital is here to produce
    and sell computer technology, not to make judgements about the morality
    of drug use/abuse.
     
       

t>    
>    "[1]If YOU were asked to submit to a drug test TODAY, right now, what
>    would you DO?

I would refuse.

>    
>    Please indicate whether your answer to [1] above would differ
>    under the following circumstances:
>    
>        SCENARIO A      where refusal would in no way penalize the
>                        employee.

I would simply refuse and that would be the end of it.

>    
>        SCENARIO B      where refusal would have some definite negative
>                        effect but would not result in termination,
>                        demotion or reduction in pay.

No difference, except that I would watch my personnel file like a hawk and 
the first negative thing entered into it would be taken straight to my 
lawyer.  And update my resume.

>    
>        SCENARIO C      where refusal equates to insubordination, and
>                        would likely result in termination.

I would still refuse.  I would, however, offer to go to my private 
physician for a blood test, and have him send Digital a certification that 
no illegal drugs were found.  His report would be simply a yes or no 
answer; no further detail should be required if Digital has no ulterior 
motives in the testing.  I would do this at my own expense.

If Digital refused my offer, I would make an appointment with my lawyer and 
call the ACLU.  And update my resume.

>    
>                                                    
>    [2]What effect do you suppose your reaction would have on your
>    current project or work group (please do *not* discuss specific
>    projects or groups by name)?"

Other than a temporary disruption, very little.  It would be nice to think 
I'm indispensable, but in reality that's not true for any of us ('cept KO 
of course).  (^;

     MY Constitutional  Rights  are  NOT  for  sale,  not  even for a DEC
     salary!!  I  have  never used illegal drugs, don't smoke, and rarely
     drink,  but  I  would  NEVER  consent  to  drug  testing  as  a  job
     requirement, especially where a lab or other company "owns" the data
     and is thus free to sell it or do anything it pleases with it (don't
     think for a minute that DEC is going to start-up a new group -- Drug
     Testing Lab).  Ironically, my blood is tested for Aides and probably
     drugs  as well ~5 times a year, by the American  Red  Cross  when  I
     donate blood.  However, the big difference is that the RC  tests  it
     themselves  and  treats the info as confidential (doesn't sell it to
     insurance and medical databases!).
     
>    "[1]If YOU were asked to submit to a drug test TODAY, right now, what
>    would you DO?
    
>    	SCENARIO A	where refusal would in no way penalize the
>    			employee.

     Refuse and  demand  documentation that there will NOT be any adverse
     impact.
         
>    	SCENARIO B	where refusal would have some definite negative
>    			effect but would not result in termination,
>    			demotion or reduction in pay.

     Refuse and use  ODP  one  level (with Personnel) prior to discussing
     matter with attorney.
         
>    	SCENARIO C	where refusal equates to insubordination, and
>    			would likely result in termination.

     Refuse (my Constitutional Rights  are still NOT for sale!), use ODP,
     AND file a lawsuit on any adverse action by DEC.
                                                    
>    [2]What effect do you suppose your reaction would have on your
>    current project or work group (please do *not* discuss specific
>    projects or groups by name)?"
    
     My refusal to submit to  drug  testing  would  not  impact any of my
     projects.  If I were terminated,  someone  would have to pick up the
     slack and it would probably mean 10-12+ hour days for a while.

    Thanks for asking!  I think in all three cases I would do roughly
    the same: talk to my lawyer, decline the test, look for work and
    resign; roughly in that order.  I'm in the office so little, it'd
    be awhile before they dragged me in for the confrontation anyway.
    After that, it would depend on what the lawyer suggested.
    
    The effect on my group would be minimal, if any.
    
    How's the vote looking so far?  Seems a little skewed towards 'Just
    say no'.
    
    tim

    1)refuse
    2)noisily refuse
    3)noisily refuse, and call a lawyer.
    

refuse
refuse and make noise, seek advise of a lawyer
refuse and not go quietly, start class action suit if it wasn't already filed.

Due to the fact that our product team is understaffed at the moment, the loss
of any of the team members would likely force us to miss a release deadline,
but beyond that, I'm just like anyone else, I can be replaced.

Bob

    Not being one to take drugs, I've nothing to hide.  Having said
    that...
    
    1a. Refuse.
    
    1b. Refuse, seek legal assistance.
    
    1c. Refuse, seek legal assistance, consider class action suit.
    
    2.  Like anybody, I'm replaceable.  
    
    Mark.

    A. Refuse
    B/C. Refuse.  Continue to work and be extra careful to keep a log of
    exactly how much I accomplish.  Involve a lawyer at the first sign of
    any trouble arising from my decision.
    
    2. If I was the only person to feel this way I'm sure my group could
    recover.  If others in my (large) group react as I would suspect
    Digital would see a massive problem almost immediately, with
    potentially devastating results.

But not in any of the above circumstances...

    
    Re .54:
    
    The count so far:
    
    		11 - favor testing
    		42 - oppose testing
    		 3 - uncommitted

    I have no problem with drug testing. I agree with -.28
    

   1/A  Refuse politely.
   1/B  "        "    and start looking to transfer to another group.
   1/C  Hard question - I've been here over 16 years and would fight
        like hell to figure out a way to stay w/o submitting.
        If push came to shove, I sure hope I'd leave.

   2    I think there'd be a significant impact on the schedule and
        quality of my current project, but it would eventually get done
        without me.
  
   reg

    
    Please try to stick to the Q & A format. Im not about to delete
    any replies or write lock this note, and Id like to keep this
    discussion open as long as possible.
    
    Also, as a reminder, please be careful of your phrasing. It is
    perfectly ok to say "Consult a lawyer to examine my options"
    but it is NOT ok to suggest a class action suit.
    
    Also...please dont tally the results. This is not a statistical
    survey, not a representative sample of the employee population,
    and MOST IMPORTANTLY not intended to do anything other than show
    some of us how others of us might react.
    
    Thanks
    
    Rick LeVine (Not acting as a MODERATOR of DIGITAL at this moment)
     ;^)

  1-A  Refuse
  1-B  Refuse
  1-C  Refuse

  2-  If I die, will DIGITAL fold up?  Of course not.  I'm replacable.

    Before I start the answers, I would hope that any requirement for
    testing wasn't a complete surprise. 
    
    Having said that:
    
    1a)	Refuse and ask why?
    1b) Refuse and start looking for another job
    1c) Refuse and quit
    
    For 1b) and 1c) I'd probably also consult a solicitor and the NCCL.
    
    2) Yes there'd be an impact. You take 10% of a team away and it's bound
       to have a bad effect.
    
    Keith.

    1-A  Refuse
    1-B  Refuse
    1-C  Refuse, start looking for a Silicon Valley job while Digital
         does the paperwork on terminating me
    
    2    I'm irreplaceable, but I wouldn't expect for the company to figure
    that out until after I'm gone.  (: >,)
    
    Ray

    I would take it, as I am totally drug-free (do not take even aspirin or
    any kind of pain killers...) why refuse? what is there to worry?
    
    1-A will not refuse
    1-B will not refuse
    1-C will not refuse

I just started working here recently, and just came from an employer where a
drug test was a precondition to employment.  I'm not crazy about the
implications, but I don't feel strongly enough about it to warrant making a
potentially dangerous (to me) stand.  I would take the test under all the
conditions specified.

    1
    A: refuse 
    B: refuse and look for another job in Digital
    C: refuse, look for another job outside of Digital, and hire an attorney
    
    2
        No one is indispensible.  I am currently working alone
 	however and the time and effort required to replace me
	would temporarily impact project schedules and budgets.

    1
    A: refuse
    B: refuse
    C: refuse and probably call a lawyer
    
    2
    Ramp up time for a new person woul cost the group some time but I'm not
    sure anyone is so indispensable.
    
    yf
    

        1
        A:  refuse
        B:  refuse
        C:  consult legal advice; ask my wife's permission; refuse

        2:  If it happened right now, because of current staffing
        levels, the work I am doing would be significantly delayed, but
        I don't know if it would affect real product schedules.

        					B.J.

    1 a - refuse
      b - refuse and start looking inside
      c - take the test, send a lot of mail, probably start considering
          leaving the company(1)
    2 Schedules slip with me, they'll slip without me just as well...
    
    - dave
    
    (1) It looks like we'll have enough good people around to form a nice
        company anyway...

I'd refuse under three scenarios.

I'm easily dispensible at the moment, being on leave....

							-- Jerry

(A)  Politely refuse
(B)  Politely refuse, prepare to take further action if necessary
(C)  Under protest submit (economic duress and blackmail).  Likely would
end further career with Digital.  Like previous respondents, if the company
doesn't trust me, I can not trust in return.  Something inviolate would be gone
and could not be replaced.

Impact -- short term moderate, long term minimal -- we're all replaceable.

    a> Happily Submit
    b> Happily Submit
    c> Submit
    
    I believe we are in the middle of a war and that extreem measures MUST
    be taken. I also agree with the reply that states only people who are 
    drug users need be concerned by the testing. 
    
    tac
    

    >I also agree with the reply that states that only people
    >who are drug users must be concerned by the testing
    
    And who must be concerned with 
    a)the right to privacy 
    b)the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty 
    c)the right to refuse to testify against oneself ?
    
    Do you mean to imply that only the guilty need concern
    themselves with the Bill Of Rights ? Recipe for tyranny.
    

    1a Refuse politely.
    1b Refuse politely, polish resume, watch personnel file and reviews.
    1c Consult wife; refuse politely, join class action suit and Refuseniks
    	Inc. if they'll have me.
    
    2 I'm working alone at the moment so some short term impact, long term
    no impact.  I wouldn't care and Digital would obviously have made it's
    choice.  
    
    FWIW This isn't about drugs or drug testing it's about freedom and
    privacy.  I have read all the previous replys and I am heartened by
    most of them.  Unlike most of the other respondents, I had to submit to a
    drug test in a previous incarnation.  It's degrading and disgusting.
    
    Drinking a bottle of Tonic water or eating a roll with poppy seeds will
    give false positives according to the doctor who took the sample.
    Who knows where the false information may ulitmately wind up?  Information
    (correct or otherwise) is power.  If anyone knows the truth of that it
    should be people in the computer business.
    

1 a - Refuse
  b - Refuse, find another DECjob where testing isn't happening
  c - Tough Call! Economically, I might be forced to comply.  I would
      beg off on the decision until I had consulted an attorney and my
      family.  If at all possible, would refuse.  If we can live without
      my income for a while...

2 I would be missed for about an hour.  

K.

    a. no
    b. No
    c. NO
    
    

    
    a.  refuse
    b.  submit and pee on tester or bleed all over floor 
    c.  submit and pee on tester or bleed all over floor and go to hospital
    
      Don't the .77 's realize what 2 false positives will do to their
      career? Overheard at the lab: 'Hey so we mixed 'em up twice...so
      what?!' 
      Only people who are free need be concerned by the interrogation.

    1a No

     b No -- Update the resume, immediately begin CMA activities, talk 
             to a lawyer, look for a job within and without Digital.

     c No -- All of the above, plus call the ACLU, check out the Tshirt
             business, and maybe schedule an immediate appointment with
             my regular doc for a test (I think a negative result would 
             look good in court).

    2  No direct effect on the business, but when I left I think I'd be 
       missed by my coworkers and hope some would be enraged.

1.	a)  No
	b)  Nay
	c)  Never


2.	"Mick Harney? Who's he? Didn't he used to make digital watches?"

    
    Politely Refuse
    
    Refuse and see my lawyer
    
    Refuse and pressure my lawyer
    
    The Bill of Rights is more important than temporary hysteria
    
    
    
    
    

          <<< HUMAN::DISK$HUMAN_WRKD:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;2 >>>
                          -< The DEC way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 883.86                     What will YOU do?                       86 of 86
CRAIG::YANKES                                        22 lines  10-AUG-1989 11:57
           -< I won't join in the unemployment line over this one. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


	Presuming that repeating and re-repeating the tests is permitted to
screen out false positives, I'd have no objections to the testing as long as
there was a clear business reason why it had to be done.  (ie. Federal mandates,
security clearance requirements, etc.)  I have a responsibility to provide
for my family that would take precidence over this testing issue -- especially
since I don't do drugs (no, don't even eat poppy-seed rolls :-).  If it is a
concern over where the testing _might_ lead to, I'll draw the line and risk
my job _when_ (not if) it leads to something that I feel is "too far" for me.

1. A.	Refuse
   B. 	Refuse
   C.	Refuse and start looking for another job

2. While nobody is indespensible, the loss of any employee would impact their
   group is some way.


		Dave

    
    
    NNNNN		NNNNN		OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  
    NNNNNN		NNNNN		OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    NNNNNNN		NNNNN		OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    NNNNNNNN		NNNNN		OOOOO			OOOOO
    NNNNNNNNN		NNNNN		OOOOO			OOOOO
    NNNNN NNNN		NNNNN		OOOOO			OOOOO
    NNNNN  NNNN		NNNNN		OOOOO			OOOOO
    NNNNN   NNNN	NNNNN		OOOOO			OOOOO
    NNNNN    NNNN	NNNNN		OOOOO			OOOOO
    NNNNN     NNNN	NNNNN		OOOOO			OOOOO
    NNNNN      NNNN	NNNNN		OOOOO			OOOOO
    NNNNN	NNNN	NNNNN		OOOOO			OOOOO
    NNNNN	 NNNN	NNNNN		OOOOO			OOOOO
    NNNNN	  NNNN  NNNNN		OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    NNNNN	   NNNNNNNNNN		OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    NNNNN	    NNNNNNNNN		OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    I have been NEXT/UNSEENing the replies to this note until I had a
    chance to answer.  That way, my decision is my own and not influenced
    by a majority opinion. 

>    [1]If YOU were asked to submit to a drug test TODAY, right now, what
>    would you DO?
    
    	SCENARIO A	    Refuse
    	SCENARIO B	    Refuse      
      	SCENARIO C	    Take test (twice, to make sure), resign
		            immediately, sue DEC & DOD all the way to
			    the U.S. Supreme Court
                                                    
>    [2]What effect do you suppose your reaction would have on your
>    current project or work group 

    There would be some setback to whatever project I was working on, but
    nobody's indispensable.  As for my group, I would rather let them think
    of me as a drug user or a fool than know myself to be a coward,
    unwilling to suffer an inconvenience where others have given their very
    lives for the freedoms and liberty we take for granted. 
                                                                          

    I would have no qualms about taking the test under any circumstances.
    If there is nothing to hide, what's the big deal.
    

    Re.-1 Nothing to hide, Plenty to loose. Nowadays freedom isn't
    always defended with force but in a court room.
    
    me? NO
        NO
        NO
    
    Life would go on without me but Digital would have lost a good
    investment.
    

a,b,c: Submit to the test under protest.

Jim

    
    
    In all cases, the answer is no.
    
    PS. To those with the opinion of "nothing to hide, so why not", You've
    taken the test. Now the next thing they want to do is search your house
    to see if you have any drugs there. STILL NOTHING TO HIDE????
    
    ed

    a. If the company could make a good case why they were **asking**
       me ("everybody else is doing it," vague mumblings about someday
       the competitive environment requiring it, or the glories of a
       drug-free workplace aren't a good case), I might if I thought
       my contribution would help Digital to prosper. 

    b. No. It would then not be voluntary. To me, that makes a major
       difference. As far as repercussions go, I always have tried to treat
       the company with the same respect and trust I believe it shows me. That
       wouldn't change. 

    c. I like the idea of the private M.D. test. If that didn't work,
       nuts to them, it is a reasonable compromise that meets all the
       legitimate "business needs."

       If they're going to fire people for refusing a repulsive and
       invasive procedure, saving one's job by cooperating would
       only be temporary until the next "emergency" came up.

    They'd only miss me when it came time to haul out my trash.
    
    John H.

a:	Decline

b:	Refuse, call a few folks I know outside DEC, Consult my lawyer

c:	Take all my accumulated vacation; Refuse; wait to be terminated;
	retain my lawyer; look for better paying job I'm sure is out there
	or join my Dad's consulting business; Possibly send resume to 
	refuseniks software inc.; contact all my liberal friends I've met
	through Notes and join up with politically correct "just-say-NFW"
	action as appropriate.


	In truth, even if I were to leave my position for an internal transfer,
the manufacturing group would be unable to replace me because of headcount
restrictions, and, as a consequence, a lot of folks around here would
suddenly find themselves more overburdened than they are already, but stuff
would roll off and not get done, and eventually, the ripples would subside.


								--D

    
    Since I've nothing to hide and I'm a good American:
    
    A: Refuse
    
    B: Refuse
    
    C: Refuse, lawyer, etc., etc.
    
     2. Maybe they'd all be good Americans without my example.
    
      

    A. Decline
       Ask reasons for test
       Give reasons for declining
    
    B. Refuse
       Ask reasons for test
       Give reasons for refusing
       Open Door Policy
       Consult lawyer
       Look for new position either inside or outside DEC depending on
         feedback from ODP and lawyer
    
    C. Consult lawyer
       Refuse
       Resign immediately
       Give reasons for resignation
       Strongly consider legal action
    
    - Dave

    re: .0 
    
    	Is this a blood test or a urine test? 
    
    	What is the false positive percentage?
    
    	I'd participate in any non-invasive test (i.e. urine test).
    
    	Such a test should also provide additional side test benefits
    	to each participant, such as including a diabetes test.
    
    		Rick
    		Merrill
    

    > Such a test should also provide additional side test benefits to
    > each participant, such as including a diabetes test.
    
    So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that in addition to
    having a drug test against my will, I should be forced to have a
    diabetes test against my will also????
    
    							Pat
    

    This will come as no surprise to those who know me, but...
    
    Scenario A  -- Accept.
    Scenario B  -- Accept.
    Scenario C  -- Accept.
    
    The reaction would have no impact on my groups or projects as far
    as my involvement is concerned.
    
    Also, given my strong feelings on this matter, I would give my full
    support and encouragement to my supervisors involved and would
    urge cooperation from my co-workers.
    
    If asked whether an employee should be *fired* for positive tests
    I would emphatically advise 'NO'. Just reassign him or her to
    a position where drug use is not a hazard, and offer rehabilitation
    services. Obviously, if the person were a pusher, I'd recommend jail, 
    but I don't think that is the target of the testing program.
                                         
    John B.

re: .101

If you do get the urine-sugar done, make sure it is "second-voided" for
more accurate results. A full bladder can give misleading results!

What would I do? 

Scenario A: Refuse and continue working as usual.

Scenario B: Refuse and start looking for another job in another company.
            (Essentially stall until I can switch jobs)

Scenario C: Stall for time looking to delay the test as long as possible
            until I can switch jobs. If I run out of time before I can
            quit, take the test, and quit the company as soon as I have 
            located another job.

    A: Go ahead and take the test.
    B: Refuse and start looking outside.
    C: Refuse and call my lawyer ...
    
    						/s/ Terry
    
    

I don't do drugs, and I have nothing to hide.  That doesn't give DEC or
anyone the right to search without due cause.

A: Refuse
B: Refuse.  Have an independent test done and documented and insist on it
   being entered in my personnel file.  Start legal action if career path 
   is affected by refusal.
C: Submit.  Have results entered into my personnel file.  Start lawsuit.
   The company should expect performance to be of the caliber of any 
   group of employees who have lost all respect for their employer.
   Accordingly, I would sell my Digital stock.   Begin search for a
   more rewarding career with a more people oriented company.

Impact to the group would not be a factor... we're already understaffed...
what's one more.

Bob

    A:  Refuse, start looking for a job outside DEC, make loud noises till
    I leave.
    
    B:  Refuse, start looking for a job outside DEC, make loud noises till
    I leave.
    
    C:  Refuse, hold a yard sale, make loud noises till they heave my butt
    out the door, throw the wife, kid, dog, & remaining stuff into the
    paid-off car and a U-haul, head south & stay with family until I find a
    new job outside DEC.
    
    	HRB

    	Probably refuse.
    
    	I notice that the ones who are willing to take the test
    	assume that they will not get a false positive, or,
    	say, a true positive because they ate bread with poppy
    	seeds.  THESE TESTS ARE FAULTY.