Conference trucks::football;1

    Tiger,
    
    I have to agree. It was the most OTT piece of "hype" you're ever likely
    to see but having to watch it was a small price to pay for qualifying!!
    
    
    Paul

    
    Robin Williams was a right pain the back passage too.
    
    Denis.

    Unfortunately, it reflected the US media's perception that you can't
    attract an American TV audience to a soccer event without a lot of
    irrelevant but "necessary" hype.  It was truly ugly.  Sorry.
    
                                                   Harry
                                                   Fairfax, Virginia, USA
    

    
    Good to see that Paddies wont be there long, Norway and Italy
    will win this league easy. Good to see that their not playing
    in Boston either, at least all those pretend Micks wont be there
    to support em.....
    
    Andy..B

    
> Surely its not too late to move World Cup '94 to a more appropriate
> place, like Mars.
    
    Tiger, you're absolutely right. By now FIFA must have realised their
    mistake and must be desperate for a way out; well here it is:
    
    Pretty soon the US immigration office will realise that Argentina has
    requested visa for a convicted junkie (you know who I mean, the player
    whose name can't be mentioned in this conference without 50+ "we wuz
    robbed" replies from the englishers). Naturally the request won't be
    granted. This will lead to heavy protests at the highest political
    level, which again naturally the US authorities won't give in to (when
    did they ever). 
    
    FIFA standing above all petty politics will claim that the participants
    of the World Cup should receive the equivalent of diplomatic immunity
    (remember they claim to be bigger than the UN, or is that the
    International Olympic Committee? oh well). When this is not granted
    either FIFA will have no choice but to move the tournament to the place
    that is most appropriate as substitute, ie the country that hosted the
    most recent international tournament: SWEDEN!
    
    Makes sense, doesn't it?
    
    
    PS. You can help too you know: remember that Bill and Al can be reached
    on electronic mail. Why don't we all send them a mail stating that
    we're good, tax-paying American citizens who demand that junkie
    dago should stay where he belongs.

RE .3
>    Can anyone explain why Cameroon were placed in the Brazilian group
>   instead of the German Group ?

Peter (the Impartial Celt),

I might be wrong, but as far as I can remember Mr. Blatter said that
Cameroon had to be put in the Brasilian group to 'fill the gap' (as he
put it) i.e. to prevent a South American team being drawn into that group
(which wasn't allowed).
The African and S. American teams were in one bowl.

Hope that helps

Eduard

    
    Right ! Gottcha,
    
    I was getting a little confused. 
    
    Thanks Eduard,
    
    Peter(An Impartial Celt)

No offence meant to the true American football lovers who note here. I must
apologise for my OTT ranting in .0 if they feel I was getting at them. 

Its just the whole show was so Vile to produce this excessive reaction on
my behalf.

I realise there are a lot of keen football players in the USA, and I hope you 
enjoy the Finals.

Which is more than I can say for that wandering spirit of the airwaves, A. 
Barefield......Please Andy, just bog off back to the Shed. No matter what
you say or do, England wont be there, and we will, so snoot. It dont matter
that we will (probably) be dumped at the first hurdle. I'm just glad
that I've got something to look forward to next Summer.

Ye see, the quintessential essence of being an Irish Supporter is the 
quality of belonging, even over many thousands of electronic miles, to
a *TEAM* effort. It dont matter whether we win or draw (not much anyway).
We spent too many years being treated as just an appendage to an Imperial
Power. Now we just enjoy the sense of oneness and cohesion that comes from 
being ourselves. 

Of course, it gives the majority of Irish Supporters no joy whatsoever 
that England haven't managed to qualify, especially after reading one of
your erudite missives.

luv,

*Tiger*

    
    Re .9
    
    can't agree more. We Scots have a similar outlook. You just have to
    look at previous world cups and the way we mix with fans of opposing
    nations, i.e. Brazil games where massive parties go on into the night.
    As you have already mentioned, taking part is great feeling, just being
    there, but sadly we won't be next year but we accept that we DO NOT
    have a God given right to be there, not like some nations and I won't
    go into anymore detail on that point. A game between Eire and Scotland
    in the world cup would be a cracker because we both know how to enjoy
    ourselves, win or lose, hopefully it will come to us in '98.
    
    Best of luck to you all......
    
    colin.
                                  

    By god was the show terrible! thank god for the mute button on the
    remote control.
    
    Hosted by Dick Clark and faye Dunaway (why???) we had to endure singing
    from James Brown, Barry Bloody manilow, Willie Nelson, Stevie Wonder
    Rod Stewart and Vanessa Williams. apart from Rod Stewart do you think
    any of them have ever seen a football game???
    
    The guests drawing the blue balls (team names) were
    Faye Dunaway, Evander Holyfield, franz beckanbaeur and Robin Williams
    you would have thought that they could have use some more people with
    real football connections.
    
    Then you had the celebs drawing the yellow balls (position in group) 
    which was ok in round two and three since they were real People 
    i.e Eusebio, Tony Meola, Roger milla, Bobby Charlton, Michel Platini and 
    mArco Van Basten but why the **** in round 4 when the yellow balls had no 
    more meaning (there was only one slot left open in each group so the draw 
    was superfluous) did we get the footie players substituted by a bunch of
    nobodies such as Beau Bridges, Mario Andretti and 4 other peopls I
    didn't recognise. 
    
    The guy who spoke only Italian was obviously some FIFA bod who made
    even the speech by Bill Clinton seem interesting - you would have
    thought they'd invite Chelsea Clinton since she was obviously named
    after the famous Chelsea team of the 70s (:==:)
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
        

    Sorry you had to endure it. The networks over here chose to ignore the
    whole thing, so football fans in the 'States had to go to one of
    the cable networks or to one of the Spanish language stations if one
    wanted to see it live. I was quite surprised when I looked in my "TV Guide"
    to see that it hadn't been scheduled by any of the 3 major networks.
    
    As an Englishman in Boston, I was hoping to be able to cheer for
    Jackie's boys, or the Dutch. Ah well, I suppose I'll have to satisfy
    myself with jeering at the Argentinians as they play to yet another
    bloody goalless draw. My indoor team will be crushed....9 Irishmen, a
    Scot, an Englishwoman and me. They were counting on on easy commute to
    Foxboro instead of 250 miles to NY.
    
    Don't rant too much against the 'States. The home team did pretty well
    against the Germans for 60 out of the 90 minutes the other day, and,
    unlike the Germans, who appeared to be near full-strength, the US team
    was without several of their better players.
    
    Regards,
    Alan

    Alan,
    
    But I am over here remember? I watched it on ESPN.
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.wicks - live from Atlanta.

    
    Interesting phone in on Radio 5 last night. Kasey Keller (American
    Millwall keeper) was on the panel, and he stated that the three major
    sports in America, Basketball, Baseball and American Football, are so
    worried about the effect Football might have in America, that they are
    blocking the major TV networks from showing it. That is why the sport
    isnt well established yet.
    
    Dave...

    Andy,
    
    If all you can contribute to the conference are racist comments
    shouldn't you stay away? What you write isn't original, it's badly spelt
    and it might make people think you're a really bad loser!!
    
    Paul
    

     
    re: .15
    I wouldn't bother trying to use logic with him - it's never worked
    before so I don't see why it should now.
    
    That said, let it be known that the English contingent in this
    conference have no intention of electing Messrs. Barefield and Cossey
    as their official spokesmen. 
    
    Just as I wouldn't expect you Irish to want to be represented by Cunno
    the Master Statistician, or Dave Tanner when he's switched to 
    Anglo-hating mode (about 95% of the time).
    
    And yes, the draw for the WC did confirm most of my worst fears. What's
    more (can you believe this?), Italian TV actually *repeated* the entire
    broadcast late at night, although we were spared slow motion action
    replays of the moment when Italy were drawn out of the bowl!!  
    
    Dom 

re -15

Well done Paul.  Sometimes one has to stand up and be counted.  Most of
the time, it's best to ignore such ill-formed drivel and racist slurs. 
Notice how the moderators didn't even bother setting the note hidden
mainly because most of the noters would then not see what he wrote.  

You are what you write - for the most part.

                             James.

    
    Me and Neil dont care about the dribble that you seem to talk most of
    the time, You lot are the most Boring people that we have ever had the
    pleasure of not meeting. You think you know everything about our 
    great game, but really you know nothing...Maybe we could all meet up
    for a drink and talk about the politics of football, but most of the
    squares on here have never been to a match before in their lifes
    anyway...So whats the point...?
    
    If me and Neil keeping receiving out of order comments against our good
    nature, we maybe forced to stop noting in here, and then how bad would
    you all feel.....?
    
    Andy..B 
    

    Anyone know what odds you can get on Argentina to win the World Cup.  I
    always place a fiver on them.
    
    
    
    /GAry

    
    Promises, promises Andy.

    
    Seriously though, and in response to the base note:
    
    Didn't the draw for Italia '90 essentially follow the same pattern, and
    wasn't it more or less as embarrassing as this one?
    
    If that's so, the americans can hardly be blamed for continuing the
    tradition.
    
    The worrying part is that, like the olympic opening ceremony, it will
    continue to develop into a more spectacular, drawn-out, expensive
    event. And unlike the olympic opening ceremony, which you can safely
    ignore, here there is a tiny element that attracts your interest (the
    actual draw). 
    
    Oh well, there's still a chance that the draw ceremony may have been
    more entertaining than some of the actual games of the tournament :-)

    
    I will also be putting my money on Argentina, there not a great side
    but they always seem to do well. I would have thought that you'd
    get some good odds on them..  
    
    How the hell did the Yanks manage to get put into such a crap group,
    there must be a bit of a fiddle going on..
    
    Andy..B

In the American sports conference, they seem to be of the opinion that they've
got a really hard draw. They consider Mexico to be legit semi-final quality.

Playing England has ruined their ideas of what a good football team is. 8-)

Mike

    Mike,
    
    I think it's COlombia they're whingeing about not Mexico who are in
    Eire's group.
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.wicks

    
    USA's group is a "crap" group only if you take for granted that the USA
    are a "crap" team. Substitute them for Brazil and you get a pretty good
    group :-)
    
    I maintain the opinion that Ireland got the easiest draw.
    
    Merry Christmas,
    
    	Stefan

Stefan,

	I would hardly call Norway  (group winners ) , 
	Italy (also Group WInners ?) and Mexico an easy draw.

	Who will Sweden meet ?

	Cheers,
 
	*Tiger*

	PS.. 

    
>	I would hardly call Norway  (group winners ) , 
>	Italy (also Group WInners ?) and Mexico an easy draw.

    First of all, there is no such thing as an easy draw.
    
    Secondly:
    
    If you take a look at the possibilities once the seeds had been made:
    
    You were bound to end up with a very good team from the A pool. You got
    Italy. Would you have preferred Germany, Brazil or Argentina?
    
    The B pool contained six teams that are very difficult to know the
    class of. Mexico have been successful in the World Cups at home, not so
    on other occasions. They usually qualify at the expense of Canada and
    USA. Again, would you have preferred Cameroon, Colmbia or Bolivia?
    
    Norway qualified mainly through the incapabilities of England and the
    (temporary?) slump of Holland, but even then they needed unprecedented
    quantities of *sheer luck*. If you'd seen their qualifying games you
    would agree. That luck simply must have run out. Besides they have lost
    the favour of being underdogs, and have actually started to expect
    results (always dangerous, especially when not realistic).
    
    Would you have preferred us, Switzerland or Nigeria?
    
>	Who will Sweden meet ?
    
    Brazil, Cameroon and Russia. A hard draw, but pretty much as expected
    given the seeds. It's they who should be disappointed for not drawing
    Norway.
    
    	Merry Christmas,
    
    		Stefan
    

    
    Stefan,
    
    	only time will tell which of the two (Norway or Sweden) is the
    tougher opponent. Having seen a fair amount of Norway qualifying
    action, and comparing them to the Sweden team I saw in the Euro
    championships (where they had home advantage), I would judge Norway to
    be the more difficult opposition. There isn't much to chose between the
    two, but I doubt anyone is wishing they drew Norway instead of Sweden.
    Being as you're Swedish, I accept that you have a somewhat different
    opinion, but as I say, time will tell....
    
    JBG

Article: 175
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (JEFF SHAIN, UPI Soccer Correspondent)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc,clari.sports.top
Subject: Sighs of relief -- except from Italy, Ireland
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 16:45:07 PST
 
	LAS VEGAS, Nev. (UPI) -- The most common response heard from coaches
after Sunday's World Cup draw? It could have been worse.
	Unless you're Italy, Ireland, Norway or Mexico, that is.
	Those four teams comprise Group E for the first round, already
nicknamed the ``Group of Death'' by some.
	That group contains three of the top 10 teams among the current world
rankings -- No. 2 Italy, No. 4 Norway and No. 10 Ireland. And Mexico is
no slouch, either, having won the CONCACAF Gold Cup and given a good
showing at the Copa America.
	``Our round is not very easy,'' Italy Coach Arrigo Sacchi said in a
bit of an understatement. ``We're going to have to start out very
strong.''
	Sunday's proceedings, televised live around the world to an audience
estimated at 500 million, created a number of other intriguing scenarios
along the way.
	Bolivia, one of the surprises of the qualifying tournament, must open
its first World Cup appearance since 1950 against defending champion
Germany (although it was the West Germany team in 1990) -- with the added
pressure of playing before the eyes of the world in the tournament
opener.
	Cameroon, the darlings of the 1990 tournament in Italy for their
stylish play, wound up in Group B along with Brazil, the original
creators of Pele's ``beautiful game.''
	Saudi Arabia and Morocco, the only two Arab teams in the tournament,
wound up being drawn together in Group F. The other two teams in the
group also are neighbors -- Holland and Belgium.
	Of all the competitors, Holland seemingly had the best luck of the
draw. The Dutch survived a tough qualifying group, one from which
England failed to advance, and drew three teams ranked in the bottom
seven among qualifiers.
	Actually, Belgium was given the group's top seed based on its
performance in the last three World Cups. But the Belgian squad has
undergone a major transition in the last four years, and is only ranked
24th in the world -- below Nigeria, Cameroon and the host United States.
	``I did not want to play Holland and I did not want to play in
Orlando (where the Belgians will have to deal with the heat),'' Belgium
Coach Paul Van Hinst said. ``But why be pessimistic? There are groups
more difficult than the one we're in.''
	In addition to Orlando, Group F will play in Washington and New York-
New Jersey.
	Germany appears to have a fairly simple run through Group C, which
includes Spain and South Korea in addition to Bolivia. But Coach Berti
Vogts is wary of that opener, to be played June 17 at Chicago's Soldier
Field.
	``This is the first time that Germany has played Bolivia,'' Vogts
said. ``I don't know this team very well, but they advanced out of a
group that included Brazil and Uruguay.''
	Vogts pointed to the 1990 opener, in which then-unknown Cameroon
stunned defending champion Argentina 2-1. Bolivia Coach Xabier
Azkargorta isn't ruling anything out, either.
	``People will think that we will fight for third, but we will go for
first,'' he said. ``We are always obligated to do what we know to do.''
	The top two teams in each group will qualify for the knockout
competition that begins in the second round, along with the four best
third-place teams.
	Argentina, which had to go through the wild-card process to grab the
final qualifying berth, came out looking pretty good in Group D. Greece
qualified out of a European Group 5 weakened by the dissolution of the
Soviet Union and Yugoslavia squads, while Bulgaria pulled off a stunning
upset of France to earn its berth.
	Argentina's toughest competition might come from Nigeria, a strong
attacking team that nevertheless will be making its first World Cup
appearance.
	``It's good that not too many people know how well the Nigerian team
plays,'' said Nigeria Coach Clemence Westerhoff, whose team is ranked
17th in the world.
	Group D will play its games in Dallas, Boston and Chicago.
	The United States avoided a tough draw, as per unwritten custom for
host nations, but still will face a challenge from Romania, Colombia and
Switzerland. The first U.S. game, against Switzerland in the first World
Cup game ever to be played indoors, could hold the key.
	``They beat Italy in qualifying, so they're a good team,'' U.S.
playmaker Peter Vermes said. ``If we beat them and get those three
points, we'll be on fire.''
	After opening at the Silverdome outside Detroit, the U.S. will play
its other two games at the Rose Bowl outside Los Angeles. San Francisco
is the third venue for Group A.
	Those three sites also will host Group B, with Brazil as the top
seed. Joining the three-time champions in the group are Russia, Cameroon
and Sweden.
	The Brazil-Cameroon matchup has the potential to be the most
entertaining of the first round. Brazil long has been considered to have
one of the most colorful playing styles in the world, though it has been
reined in somewhat in recent years. With Cameroon's flair in attack,
there are those who say the ``Indomitable Lions'' may teach something
back to the Brazilians.

 Article: 69
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (United Press International)
Newsgroups: clari.tw.computers,clari.tw.electronics,clari.sports.misc,clari.sports.top
Subject: World Cup 1994 Schedule
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 16:24:34 PST
 
                              ------
	World Cup schedule by country:
                               ------
                            _A_r_g_e_n_t_i_n_a
	June 21 -- Greece at Foxboro, Mass.
	June 25 -- Nigeria at Foxboro, Mass.
	June 30 -- Bulgaria at Dallas.
                               ------
                             _B_e_l_g_i_u_m
	June 19 -- Morocco at Orlando, Fla.
	June 25 -- Holland at Orlando, Fla.
	June 29 -- Saudi Arabia at Washington.
                               ------
                             _B_o_l_i_v_i_a
	June 17 -- Germany at Chicago.
	June 23 -- South Korea at Foxboro, Mass.
	June 27 -- Spain at Chicago.
                               ------
                              _B_r_a_z_i_l
	June 20 -- Russia at Stanford, Calif.
	June 24 -- Cameroon at Stanford, Calif.
	June 28 -- Sweden at Pontiac, Mich.
                               ------
                             _B_u_l_g_a_r_i_a
	June 21 -- Nigeria at Dallas.
	June 26 -- Greece at Chicago.
	June 30 -- Argentina at Dallas.
                               ------
                             _C_a_m_e_r_o_o_n
	June 19 -- Sweden at Pasadena, Calif.
	June 24 -- Brazil at Stanford, Calif.
	June 28 -- Russia at Stanford, Calif.
                               ------
                             _C_o_l_o_m_b_i_a
	June 18 -- Romania at Pasadena, Calif.
	June 22 -- United States at Pasadena, Calif.
	June 26 -- Switzerland at Stanford, Calif.
                               ------
                             _G_e_r_m_a_n_y
	June 17 -- Bolivia at Chicago.
	June 21 -- Spain at Chicago.
	June 27 -- South Korea at Dallas.
                               ------
                              _G_r_e_e_c_e
	June 21 -- Argentina at Foxboro, Mass.
	June 26 -- Bulgaria at Chicago.
	June 30 -- Nigeria at Foxboro, Mass.
                               ------
                             _H_o_l_l_a_n_d
	June 20 -- Saudi Arabia at Washington.
	June 25 -- Belgium at Orlando, Fla.
	June 29 -- Morocco at Orlando, Fla.
                               ------
                             _I_r_e_l_a_n_d
	June 18 -- Italy at East Rutherford, N.J.
	June 24 -- Mexico at Orlando, Fla.
	June 28 -- Norway at East Rutherford, N.J.
                               ------
                              _I_t_a_l_y
	June 18 -- Ireland at East Rutherford, N.J.
	June 23 -- Norway at East Rutherford, N.J.
	June 28 -- Mexico at Washington.
                               ------
                              _M_e_x_i_c_o
	June 19 -- Norway at Washington.
	June 24 -- Ireland at Orlando, Fla.
	June 28 -- Italy at Washington.
                               ------
                             _M_o_r_o_c_c_o
	June 19 -- Belgium at Orlando, Fla.
	June 25 -- Saudi Arabia at East Rutherford, N.J.
	June 29 -- Holland at Orland, Fla.
                               ------
                             _N_i_g_e_r_i_a
	June 21 -- Bulgaria at Dallas.
	June 25 -- Argentina at Foxboro, Mass.
	June 30 -- Greece at Foxboro, Mass.
                               ------
                              _N_o_r_w_a_y
	June 19 -- Mexico at Washington.
	June 23 -- Italy at East Rutherford, N.J.
	June 28 -- Ireland at East Rutherford, N.J.
                               ------
                             _R_o_m_a_n_i_a
	June 18 -- Colombia at Pasadena, Calif.
	June 22 -- Switzerland at Pontiac, Mich.
	June 26 -- United States at Pasadena, Calif.
                               ------
                              _R_u_s_s_i_a
	June 20 -- Brazil at Stanford, Calif.
	June 24 -- Sweden at Pontiac, Mich.
	June 28 -- Cameroon at Stanford, Calif.
                               ------
                           _S_a_u_d_i _A_r_a_b_i_a
	June 20 -- Holland at Washington.
	June 25 -- Morocco at East Rutherford, N.J.
	June 29 -- Belgium at Washington
                               ------
                            _S_o_u_t_h _K_o_r_e_a
	June 17 -- Spain at Dallas.
	June 23 -- Bolivia at Foxboro, Mass.
	June 27 -- Germany at Dallas.
                               ------
                              _S_p_a_i_n
	June 17 -- South Korea at Dallas.
	June 21 -- Germany at Chicago.
	June 27 -- Bolivia at Chicago.
                               ------
                              _S_w_e_d_e_n
	June 19 -- Cameroon at Pasadena, Calif.
	June 24 -- Russia at Pontiac, Mich.
	June 28 -- Brazil at Pontiac, Mich.
                               ------
                           _S_w_i_t_z_e_r_l_a_n_d
	June 18 -- United States at Pontiac, Mich.
	June 22 -- Romania at Pontiac, Mich.
	June 26 -- Colombia at Stanford, Calif.
                               ------
                           _U_n_i_t_e_d _S_t_a_t_e_s
	June 18 -- Switzerland at Pontiac, Mich.
	June 22 -- Colombia at Pasadena, Calif.
	June 26 -- Romania at Pasadena, Calif.

re .27

Stefan,

Yes, you look like you have a tough draw also. Lets hope we meet in further rounds??.

However, a well organised team like Sweden should not have too much trouble.

I do think that our group is aptly named "Group of Death".....with so many hot teams
in it.

Roll on the Italians in NJ.

*Tiger*

    
    JBG
    
    All Norway really did was beat England. What I can't understand is,
    that although everybody agree that England nowadays have a second rate
    national team (if that), the team that eliminates England has to be
    good.
    
>    Being as you're Swedish, I accept that you have a somewhat different
>    opinion, but as I say, time will tell....
 
    Well, I never claimed to be impartial :-)
    
    cheers,
    
    	Stefan

    
    re last: >    Well, I never claimed to be impartial :-)
    
    
    Give it a go Stefan :-)
    
    Peter(A Impartial Celt)

    Re .-1
    
    >>All Norway really did was beat England.
    
    All Norway really did, in fact, was to win their group.
    Which also included the Netherlands, Poland and Turkey.
    
    >> What I can't understand is,...
    
    What Mr Persson doesn't understand might well pull the host node
    to a complete halt, if he was to elaborate. It's surprising he
    wasn't part of the Las Vegas ceremony.  ;^) ;^)
    
    Anyway, we'll find out next summer.
    
    Cheers,
    Henrik
    

	World Cup schedule by country:
                               ------
	Argentina
	June 21 -- Greece at Foxboro, Mass.
	June 25 -- Nigeria at Foxboro, Mass.
	June 30 -- Bulgaria at Dallas.
                               ------
	Belgium
	June 19 -- Morocco at Orlando, Fla.
	June 25 -- Holland at Orlando, Fla.
	June 29 -- Saudi Arabia at Washington.
                               ------
	Bolivia
	June 17 -- Germany at Chicago.
	June 23 -- South Korea at Foxboro, Mass.
	June 27 -- Spain at Chicago.
                               ------
	Brazil
	June 20 -- Russia at Stanford, Calif.
	June 24 -- Cameroon at Stanford, Calif.
	June 28 -- Sweden at Pontiac, Mich.
                               ------
	Bulgaria
	June 21 -- Nigeria at Dallas.
	June 26 -- Greece at Chicago.
	June 30 -- Argentina at Dallas.
                               ------
	Cameroon
	June 19 -- Sweden at Pasadena, Calif.
	June 24 -- Brazil at Stanford, Calif.
	June 28 -- Russia at Stanford, Calif.
                               ------
	Colombia
	June 18 -- Romania at Pasadena, Calif.
	June 22 -- United States at Pasadena, Calif.
	June 26 -- Switzerland at Stanford, Calif.
                               ------
	Germany
	June 17 -- Bolivia at Chicago.
	June 21 -- Spain at Chicago.
	June 27 -- South Korea at Dallas.
                               ------
	Greece
	June 21 -- Argentina at Foxboro, Mass.
	June 26 -- Bulgaria at Chicago.
	June 30 -- Nigeria at Foxboro, Mass.
                               ------
	Holland
	June 20 -- Saudi Arabia at Washington.
	June 25 -- Belgium at Orlando, Fla.
	June 29 -- Morocco at Orlando, Fla.
                               ------
	Ireland
	June 18 -- Italy at East Rutherford, N.J.
	June 24 -- Mexico at Orlando, Fla.
	June 28 -- Norway at East Rutherford, N.J.
                               ------
	Italy
	June 18 -- Ireland at East Rutherford, N.J.
	June 23 -- Norway at East Rutherford, N.J.
	June 28 -- Mexico at Washington.
                               ------
	Mexico
	June 19 -- Norway at Washington.
	June 24 -- Ireland at Orlando, Fla.
	June 28 -- Italy at Washington.
                               ------
	Morocco
	June 19 -- Belgium at Orlando, Fla.
	June 25 -- Saudi Arabia at East Rutherford, N.J.
	June 29 -- Holland at Orland, Fla.
                               ------
	Nigeria
	June 21 -- Bulgaria at Dallas.
	June 25 -- Argentina at Foxboro, Mass.
	June 30 -- Greece at Foxboro, Mass.
                               ------
	Norway
	June 19 -- Mexico at Washington.
	June 23 -- Italy at East Rutherford, N.J.
	June 28 -- Ireland at East Rutherford, N.J.
                               ------
	Romania
	June 18 -- Colombia at Pasadena, Calif.
	June 22 -- Switzerland at Pontiac, Mich.
	June 26 -- United States at Pasadena, Calif.
                               ------
	Russia
	June 20 -- Brazil at Stanford, Calif.
	June 24 -- Sweden at Pontiac, Mich.
	June 28 -- Cameroon at Stanford, Calif.
                               ------
	Saudi Arabia
	June 20 -- Holland at Washington.
	June 25 -- Morocco at East Rutherford, N.J.
	June 29 -- Belgium at Washington
                               ------
	South Korea
	June 17 -- Spain at Dallas.
	June 23 -- Bolivia at Foxboro, Mass.
	June 27 -- Germany at Dallas.
                               ------
	Spain
	June 17 -- South Korea at Dallas.
	June 21 -- Germany at Chicago.
	June 27 -- Bolivia at Chicago.
                               ------
	Sweden
	June 19 -- Cameroon at Pasadena, Calif.
	June 24 -- Russia at Pontiac, Mich.
	June 28 -- Brazil at Pontiac, Mich.
                               ------
	Switzerland
	June 18 -- United States at Pontiac, Mich.
	June 22 -- Romania at Pontiac, Mich.
	June 26 -- Colombia at Stanford, Calif.
                               ------
	United States
	June 18 -- Switzerland at Pontiac, Mich.
	June 22 -- Colombia at Pasadena, Calif.
	June 26 -- Romania at Pasadena, Calif.

    
>    What Mr Persson doesn't understand might well pull the host node
>    to a complete halt, if he was to elaborate. It's surprising he
>    wasn't part of the Las Vegas ceremony.  ;^) ;^)
 
    Yes, and the list would start with "Norwegian logic". Now what do you
    think of the draw? 
    
    Merry Christmas,
    
    	Stefan
    

    Stefan
    
    I think it was criminal they went off... we used to bat on in much
    worse light than that! WA for the Shield?

    G'day all,
    		I've just found out that the World Cup Final, the ultimate
    holy day in the calendar is kicking off at 12.30pm in Los Angeles on
    the 17th of July!!!
    
    12:30 PM.........................
    
    What's the temperature at 12.30pm in LA in July????
    
    About 35 degrees?????
    
    Can you believe the depths that FIFA will plunge to to satisfy the
    money-god?????
    
    Pass the champagne I need to cool down.
    
    Ica, Sydney,Australia, a cool 29 degrees and sunny.

Look at these findings from a recent survey in the States. As I've said before,
if we were ever going to miss a World Cup Finals this was the one to miss. 8-)

	 -- 25 percent of Americans, a higher proportion of men than
women, know the World Cup is about soccer.
	 -- 20 percent of Americans know that the 24-nation
tournament will be played in the United States.
	 -- 18 percent know the finals are in 1994.
	 -- 62 percent are not interested in attending matches.
	 The Harris poll claimed an error margin of three per cent
with figures for age, sex, race, education and number of adults
per household weighted into the findings.
	 The pollsters, who surveyed 1,252 adults by telephone
nationwide across the United States, concluded that interest in
the world's most popular sport was increasing but ``most people
still know almost nothing about it.''
	 Sixty percent of those polled said they had heard of the
World Cup. Far fewer knew what it was.
	 The last poll in October 1993 found 21 percent knew what
sport was involved and just 13 percent replied that it would be
played in the United States.
	 Only 11 percent then knew the finals were in 1994.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Mike

err.... what's the point? (I assume there is one).

Gordon.

    Well, how about England hosting a future winter olympics then. They
    could use the dry ski slope at Gloucester, and Eddie the Eagles back
    garden for the ski jumping. It seems as ludicrous as the USA hosting
    the world cup. You never know, it could happen ;-)
    
    Rich.

    What about the Pennine Way for the cross-country skiing events?
    
    And I'm sure no bobsleigh enthusiasts would notice the difference if
    they used the helter-skelter at Blackpool, in the absence of a real bob
    run!
    
    Dom

    re last 2 or 3
    
    I can't see the point in slagging the yanks. Even tho relatively few
    Americans know or care that they are hosting one of the top three events in
    World sport, it will still be superbly organised and from reading the
    notes in here about ticket sales it seems that just about every match
    will be a sell-out.
    
    I think it will be a classic tournament with the Republic of Ireland
    beating Spain in the final 2-1....
    
    just my 2 cents....Ray

    Ray,
    
    Take off those rose-tinted spectacles !!!
    
    Being realistic, Spain have no chance of making it to the Final.  
    For my money, Germany will go all the way
    
    
    to the final, where they will lose 3-1 to Ireland  ;-) !!!
    
    
    Jerry.

	When take a look at the size of the U.S, the percetage of people who do
know about the world cup will be enough to make it a sell-out and hopefully a
good competition...


Mick

I agree. The most important thing to make a successful tournament is good
exciting football. Good crowds (which by all indications there will be) will add
match atmosphere and the fans of the world who cannot be there will, I
confidently predict, receive excellent TV coverage.

Who cares if Jed Clampett up on the Blue Grass mountains and millions of other
Americans don't know about the event? 

Gordon.

    
    You guys must certainly be taking some goo stuff. Everyone knows it
    going to be a Wales v England final!!!
    
    ;-)
    
    JBG

    Re: .46  > Who cares if Jed Clampett up on the Blue Grass mountains 
    	       and millions of other Americans don't know about the event? 
    
    Well Gordon, that could be a bit of a problem. According to the News of
    the World on Sunday, the disagreement between FIFA and Pele is still
    going on. Barry Manilow unfortunately has a prior engagement on the day
    of the opening ceremony, so the US Organising committee has lined up
    Jed Clampett as the guest celebrity !!!
    
    Jerry.

    RE .39 Mike,
    
    and the latest Gallup Poll shows that 40% of the U.K population would 
    still vote conservative!
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

Ooo-er, I only put it in because I thought people might be interested. I think
it calls into question the wisdom of FIFA in giving it to the Americans. It
should be awarded to countries to whom it would mean something, like Brazil, and
not just countries who will put on a flash show and use it to sell soft drinks.

I just read on the internet that the American profesional football league has
just expanded to a mighty 8 teams, and they hope to reach 16 one day. Let's face
it, football is never going to catch on there.

I haven't seen the Gallup polls, but if 40% of Britain would still vote tory
then we don't deserve to be in the World Cup. We should be kicked out of
international society altogether if you ask me (which you didn't).

So there you go.

mike

    
> I haven't seen the Gallup polls, but if 40% of Britain would still vote tory
> then we don't deserve to be in the World Cup.
    
    Of course you do, and what's more I think Britain could field a pretty
    good team. But as long as you keep entering the qualifications with
    regional teams you're bound to lose out.
    
    Sorry. someone had to say it :-)

    In that case, Scandinavia's going in as one team as well? And while
    we're at it Australia will have to go in with the Kiwis. 
    
    Ica

    
>    In that case, Scandinavia's going in as one team as well?
    
    No need to, Sweden are good enough to qualify without help (in fact we
    were probably the only side to qualify without a goalkeeper)
    
    cheers,
    
    	Stefan

I don't agree that soccer won't take off in the States.
It just needs to be marketed properly, it's the kids you need to target.
If they see enough of the good side of football they'll be hooked.

After all not every kid is cut out to play basketball, American football or
baseball competitively. Soccer will appeal to these kids as a sport where you
don't HAVE to be 7 foot five or be built like a brick sh!t house to compete.

It will appeal to the kids who wish to express themselves more, kids with brains.

After all American Football is so regimented it leaves little room for
imagination ( it's basically an idiots rugby ) and as for baseball well does the
word rounders mean anything to ya( It's a game for mammy's boys ). Cricket is a
far superior game any day. And then of course there is Ice Hockey. It's a low
scoring game with plenty of skill I hear you cry. Yes but the only reason it is
low scoring is because the players are covered in so many layers of thermal
underware and padding they can hardly swing their bloody stick and then you have
to get it past the keeper who if he had any inteligence would feed himself until
he was the size of you average summo wrestler and then just block the goal with
his arse.
As for basketball. Well they could really just start both teams at 100 points
and play for five minutes, it would have the same effect. You basically become
immune to the excitement of a score at a basketball game they are so frequent.

One of the most underated aspects of soccer IMHO is that goals are a rare
commodity. It is rare for more that 1 or 2 goals to be scored in a game( except
when Man. United are playing of course ). It is even rarer that a real cracker
is scored so it is really something to treasure and celebrate and if you've
scored you can feel damn proud and everyone can jump on top of you and hug and
kiss you :-) Hmmm... Maybe they should target San-Francisco more.

Soccer is a good game for parents also. They don't have to worry that little
Jimmy is going to have his back broken by some bad-ass from the getto. They can
go to the match and watch in the sure knowledge that Jimmy's $700 braces aren't
going to be ripped off and shoved up another oriface. After all, all the John
Fashwhatevers will be playing American football or kicking butt on the
Basketball court.

Another advantage of soccer is that if you play in the summer you can get a good
tan. With American football you end up with all the horizontal lines on your
face and a completly white forehead. It sucks man. But then I guess most of the
guys who play American football have a good enough tan already anyway.

More later...

Peter(An Impartial Celt)

    
    RE: -1
    
    Brilliant Note !!
    
    I reckon those American footballers should play some Rugby League,
    that would sort out the men from the boys. 
    
    Cheers
    Nige

Because of course they don't wear pads in Rugby League at all.

Or do they? 8-)

mike

Once in a while we get a great note. Number .55 is one of them. Bravo!

Gordon.

    
    	well I've just read .55 and I laughed till I cried!
    
    	Brilliant.

    An American friend tells me that Soccer (as thet refer to it) is quite
    well supported in the schools, and kids play it up to the ages of
    16/17. But, because their is no local, state or national structure at
    a professional level... it stops there. That is apart from the women,
    who have a very successful and high quality national side (current
    holders of the Women's World Cup).
    
    In the States, dosh talks... so maybe the World Cup will stimulate
    the interest of the people with the money. Although it's been tried
    before with the North American League (New York Cosmos, etc)... One 
    of the reasons that collapsed, apart from lack of money, interest, was
    that there were no players coming through to replace the ageing 
    superstars like, Pele, Beckenbauer, Moore, Marsh, etc.. so once the
    flamboyance went so did the money... To make it work they would need
    a proper structure, through schools, local, national, etc.
    
    If they did, though, we (England) would only lose more heavily to the 
    USA ;-)
    
    
    Norman

	I suggest that the EuroDisney site be converted into a permanent
	venue for the World Cup.

	Tony

    Tony,
    
    could you elaborate on .61? or have you just been overworking??
    
    P.S don't suppose you know the score of the S.korea game yesterday.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    >	I suggest that the EuroDisney site be converted into a permanent
    >	venue for the World Cup.
    
    Suppose some of the Mickey Mouse teams that got through would feel
    quite at home.
    
    Paul.
    

    
    ...And some Mickey Mouse teams who did NOT get through would also. :-)
    
    Hermann
    

The World Cup note is probably not the right place for this, but who cares. What
do people think of these fantastic 8-) rules changes?

	 NEW YORK (Reuter) - A massive set of changes designed to
stimulate offense and make soccer more appealing to U.S. fans
was announced Wednesday by the United States Soccer Federation,
which is turning its developmental league into a rules
laboratory.
	 USSF president Alan Rothenberg said that FIFA had given the
go-ahead for the experiments to be conducted this season in the
United States Interregional Soccer League (USISL, Division III)
with changes aimed at creating offense.
	 Experiments involve enlarging the goal size, punishing
committers of multiple fouls, providing for free kicks and
shootouts, shortening some corner kicks, and changing rules
involving the throw-in and use of the clock in the game.
	 ``Our goal is the further development of the great game of
soccer in the United States,'' Rothenberg told a news
conference.
	 ``This is a turning point for soccer in the United States,''
he said, noting the World Cup will be hosted here this summer
and next spring will bring the launch of Major League Soccer, a
first division outdoor professional league.
	 ``We want to make it more exciting, more entertaining to
improve this great game even more.''
	 The USISL, made up of 72 teams in 34 states from coast to
coast, begins a five-month season in early April and will use
its eight divisions to test different rules.
	 ``''I believe we can make it a cleaner game, a more
free-flowing game and a somewhat faster game,'' said USISL
commissioner Francisco Marcos.
	 Rothenberg said that following the USISL season, a study
group would examine data from about 350 games and decide what,
if any, rules changes to ask FIFA to allow for the inaugural
Major League Soccer season beginning next April.
	 ``We didn't make all these things up. FIFA has considered
many of them,'' said Rothenberg. ``Our intention is to go
through normal channels and normal procedures.
	 ``We'll make reasonable, rational proposals and expect FIFA
to be reasonable and rational and accept it.''
	 FIFA can allow experimentation in individual countries
without changing international rules, U.S. officials said.
	 Rules experiments include:
	 Goal size - Larger goal sizes than the standard 24 feet by 8
feet. One division will play with a goal 28 feet by 8.5 feet,
and another with one 25.5 feet by 8.5 feet.
	 Multiple fouls - Every seventh foul per half leading to a
shootout from a 35-yard out marking. In other divisions, every
seventh foul resulting in a free kick from the top of the arc.
	 Free kicks/fouls - Encroachment on free kicks within 35
yards of the goalline leading to a caution and the opponent
required to be back 15 yards from the restart. In another
division, 'professional' fouls will lead to a live shootout,
where the player can dribble the ball in, one-on-one against the
goallie. One division will require a player with five individual
fouls to be ejected. A second player with five fouls will be
ejected with no substitute permitted. In most divisions a fifth
foul will lead to a live shootout.
	 Corner kicks - If the ball passes out of play between the
goal and the intersection of the goal line and the penalty area,
then the kick will be taken from that intersection.
	 Throw-in - A thrown-in or kick-in will be an option. The
kick-in will be considered indirect and there is no offside.
	 Game length - A 60-minute stop time clock will be in use
rather than the 90-minute continuous format. The stadium clock
will keep official time. Clock will stop for all out of bounds
and dead ball situations except for quick restarts from fouls.

F***'in Yanks. Tell them to leave our game alone !!!!!!!!!

The best game in the world and they have to try to screw it up, just like every
other sport in their god'am country. 

Peter( who likes it the way it is appart from penalty shootouts ).

    
    Re .66
    
    	you've missed the bit about them substituting the whole team for
    set pieces etc. For corners / direct free kicks & the like, there will
    be special teams which can be brought on en masse to handle the set
    piece plays. Also an offensive and defensive team will be permitted,
    allowing up to 25 players on the bench at any time. Not forgetting the
    attention to the little details, each "team" (ie defence, offence and
    special) will have slight differences in the strip (& different numbers
    of course) Man U have their kits ready!

The best bit I think is: 

	 ``We'll make reasonable, rational proposals and expect FIFA
to be reasonable and rational and accept it.''


Very reasonable. 8-)

Finally, someone has suggested that I should do some work rather than typing
such long articles in. Well, just to reassure you, it's a cut and paste job from
the internet that took about 3 seconds. You know who you are. 8-)

And now, back to work.

Mike

Why not go the whole way, and have timeouts, huddles after each play, wear
padding so everyone can look like Gazza, and allow the coaches/managers to shout
abuse at the referee (should suit Fergie).. all this should increase the game
to about 4 hours... that will really bring the fans in ;-)

I actually like `American' Fottball, but think the Americans should stick
to what they know... stay OUT of SOCCER

Norman

    Re 68
    
    Who was it Mike???  Let me know and i'll sort em' out for yer.
    
    
    
    
    /Gary

    
    I think the Americans tend to forget that the appeal of the game is its
    simplicity of rules and lack of any gimmicks or gadgets other than the 
    whistle and the watch.......But let them experiment...if they find just
    a couple of simple changes that might make the game more exciting...
    WE might be reasonable and accept them....
    
    	!! WE being the rest of the 'soccer' playing nations in the world..
    
    Dezzz.
    
    

Yes, after a hundred years or so of messing around, good to see that we're 
getting the professionals in to do it properly - how've we managed without 
them for so long?

(Insert 'heavy sarcasm' punctuation here)

grahame

    
    Hey! let's face it!..... You should know by now. how...
    
    
    	THE MIGHTY $$$$$$ TAKES OVER!
    
    
    I wish they let the game alone..... it's been fine for the past
    umpteen centuries.... why the change now?
    
    Nick (an_american_who_loves_the_game_just_as_it_is......

    There is a new regulation that the fourth official is now the one who
    is designated to replace the middle ref if (s)he can't ref.  This is an
    attempt to have a clear "promotional path" for ref's.  First a
    linesman, then a fourth official, then a ref.
    
    With all these new rules, the fourth official will be busier than a one arm
    paper hanger keeping track of all the fouls etc. (Unless they add a
    scorer's table like basketball!).
    
    I for one have enough trouble keeping track of all the laws for this
    "simple" game.  The proposal is a mess!  Try one new thing -- sure. 
    Try a dozen at once, and it's mayhem.
    
    IMHO  :-)
    
    		Jeff-the-ref 

    Do all these different leagues in the U.S. use the same referees ? If
    so, they are going to have a hell of a job remembering to which set of
    rules they are playing !
    
    Terry

    Any group that plays under the auspices of FIFA uses the same
    group of referees though if the different rules are implemented in 
    different parts of the country one referee may not get to see too 
    many variations.  The situation is already complicated by the fact 
    that High Schools and Colleges do not play under FIFA, each using 
    slightly different rules from each other and FIFA, and each 
    needing to register it's own group of referees.  However many FIFA 
    referees do all three.  Add that to these proposals and refs will 
    need a refresher course prior to each game!

    From the reaction I've got to those I've talked to about these 
    proposals here, most are universally appalled at the idea and hope 
    they fail.  My feelings entirely!  Most of my kids team say that 
    if they wanted time-outs and all the other things proposed, they 
    would play American football.  Leave soccer alone!

    Gerry

    Well, I just read the 'new rules' note.
    
    I think they are trying to make Soccer (why not just call it football?)
    a mixture of hockey, ice-hockey, basketball and American football.
    
    Most ideas suck. Like the 2 different teams, 1 for defence, one for
    offense. Stick to AF, if you like that.
    Ice-hockey alike penalty, are you kidding?
    15 yard set-back? Come on!
    Shoot in instead of throw in? It's not hockey!
    
    The only thing that could be interesting is playing 2 times 30 minutes.
    Real time. Like in basketball. Now, teams who are ahead tend to be slow
    at throw-ins etc., and then, that will have no effect anymore.
    
    But the rest of these so called 'reasonable' suggestions, are typically
    American and should IMHO NOT be taken seriosly. If they want a mixture
    of American football, ice-hockey and basketball, why not 'invent' a new
    sport? I like the idea of an American football-team playing against a
    rugby-team. They won't know what hit 'em!  :)
    
    Marcel, a dutch soccer-fan, who likes it as it is.

    
    
     A rule definately in for the US is a red card for tackles from behind.
    
    
     Whilst they can be dangerous, there turning the sport into a joke.
     I can see it now -  Argentina and Urugauy have had to abandon their
    match at half time as the goalkeepers got tired of kicking the ball to
    each other.
    
    
    Keep the game physical please.....
    
    
    Gazzer

    I would like to see a rule, similar to the one used in Rugby leaugue 
    (I think) that allows a free kick to be moved 10 yards forward if it is
    impeded, or the wall is not far enough back. As for the rules the
    U.S.A. bunch are proposing, are they trying to make soccer so
    ridiculous so that it stems the rising interest in the game and make
    people want to watch AF ? Soon it'll be after 5 passes, there must be a
    shot on goal, otherwise the ball must be punted up the field to the
    opposition (would suit Wimbledon and David Seaman).
    
    Rich.   

I know this one is not on the agenda.... but rather than send a player off for
denying a clear goalscoring opportunity - just award a goal... similar to a
`penalty try' in Rugby. This would fully penalise the offending side, and not
penalise the unlucky player, e.g Kanchelskis in the League Cup Final; anyone
who has played football knows that his reaction was instinctive, and giving a 
goal would be fairer all round... but I don't suppose FIFA will ever support
sensible rule changes.

Norman

    
    
     I'd like to see a rule where anyshot at goal is awarded a goal !.
     My lot on a Sunday couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo.
    
    
     Re Kanchelskis - felt sorry for the man, did you see his poor face.
     He for one is not a dirty player and its a shame he isn't English.
     In his situation anyone would have done the same thing. The ref had no
     choice. 
    
    
    Gazzer

re: 80

An excellent sugestion and one which should be implemented.
Will Kanchelskis be suspended for any games ?

Peter.

Probably the wrong note... but as far as I know Kanchelskis misses one match...
the semi against Oldham, as do Keane and Cantona. At last, United will need some
of their squad - Sharpe, McClair, Dublin, Phelan, Robson? As a non-United fan, 
I hope they win something - IMO, their football, over the season deserves it!

Norman

    haven't been in here much recently due to the dreaded DIGITAL game of
    let's move everyone's office 40feet for a luagh game... but here's some
    related news.
    
    The Atlanta Magic play in the southeast section of the 8 divison USISL
    and start the season under the new rules this saturday April 2nd. I
    must admit I never saw them in the previous 3 years i've lived here nor
    did I go and see the indoor team we have the Atlanta Attack but in the
    interest of entertainment and for the greater benefit of all in this
    notes file i'll venture out to see them and post a report on Monday.
    
    the rules appear to be confusing to me especially the one about every
    7th foul giving a free-kick - will it be indirect or direct? can anyone
    count to 7? and what happens when the 7th is committed in the home team
    penalty area?? - do they really have to troop to the other end of the
    field to take the free-kick!!! - maybe one of our resident Refs Jeff or 
    Gerry could explain.
    
    from what I can tell everyone of the 8 divisons will be testing
    different rules - no one league will play with all rule changes - this
    is going to confuse everyone - ok so this is division 7 which
    means shorter games - or this is division 6 so it means kick-ins, there
    appear to be about 9 rule changes all not all of which were in the
    Reuters article.
    
    Regards, 
    
    Andrew.D.wicks
    

    re .84
    
    Andrew,
    
    		Beats me!  On a 7th penalty, the other team usually gets a
    free kick anyway.  So I can only suppose that the free kick would be
    brought up into the offending teams "red zone" (whatever that means!).
    
    I am VERY glad I'm too old to be one of their ref's...  If I were, every
    whistle would be on delay since it'd take me 5 seconds to evaluate if
    what I saw was a fould and if it "counted" in this division!!
    
    		Regards,
    					Jeff

    I got a flyer in the mail this week from MLS (Major League Soccer)
    which is the organisation that will be running the outdoor league
    that starts next year.
    
    the advert says that the new league will 
    o comprise "up to" 12 teams
    o feature the best american players and a limited number of
      international players (oh not Gary lineker!)
    o spring/summer schedule, of at least 14 home games, possible playoffs
      and international matches (Boise, Idaho v Scotland?)
    o projected average ticket price of $12.50 
    
    they then list 43 cities that are being considered for a franchise 
    which range forn big cities such as N.Y to small cities such as
     raleigh-Durham N.C.
    
    and then they hit you with the request for money - send them $75 deposit per
    person for a reserved season ticket and the number sent in by each city
    will help determine which cities get selected. if they get less than
    10,000 deposits they're apparently out of the reckoning! what is going
    on 10,000 people for a footie game in the U.S I mean even wimbledon
    don't get that many.
    
    Well I guess i should be cyncial given how much vaporware is sold by
    computer companies such as ours but this seems a bit of a scam to me
    when competitive bids don't have to be tabled til may. with a decision
    following in september. In Atlanta I guess the stadium bud would be 
    Bobby Dodd which is the college stadium for georgia tech university
    and was the one that was in the abortive bid or the World Cup.
    
    Comments? especially from other U.S based noters welcome...
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    Does anyone have the prices for the World Cup to hand......
    
    Latest odds on Ireland would be handy.....please, Tony Absolom.
    
    Dave...

As people are asking here are the latest 
odds quoted by Ladbrokes on the forthcoming Wolrd Cup finals:

BRAZIL          3-1            NORWAY           40-1
GERMANY         4-1            ROMANIA          40-1
ITALY           5-1            SWEDEN           40-1
NETHERLANDS     6-1            SWITZERLAND      40-1
ARGENTINA       8-1            BULGARIA         50-1
COLOMBIA        8-1            MEXICO           50-1
SPAIN          22-1            USA              50-1
BELGIUM        25-1            CAMEROON         80-1
NIGERIA        33-1            GREECE           80-1
REP OF IRELAND 33-1            MOROCCO         200-1
RUSSIA         33-1            SOUTH KOREA     250-1
BOLIVIA        40-1            SAUDI ARABIA    500-1

In addition, here are the odds for the groups:

GROUP A                        GROUP B

COLOMBIA        8-11           BRAZIL            1-3
SWITZERLAND     4-1            RUSSIA            6-1
ROMANIA         4-1            SWEDEN            6-1
USA             6-1            CAMEROON         12-1

GROUP C                        GROUP D

GERMANY         4-9            ARGENTINA         1-2
SPAIN           3-1            NIGERIA           4-1
BOLIVIA         5-1            BULGARIA          9-2
SOUTH KOREA    50-1            GREECE            8-1

GROUP E                        GROUP F

ITALY           2-5            NETHERLANDS       2-5
NORWAY          6-1            BELGIUM           2-1
REP OF IRELAND  6-1            MOROCCO          16-1
MEXICO          7-1            SAUDI ARABIA     50-1

SHAGGY

With compliments,

Peter.

    
    Cameroon 12-1 to win their group of 80-1 for the Cup itself.......
    
    Clearly the bookies haven't heard that the Cameroon President has
    insisted that one Roger Milla is in the Cameroon squad and will be
    given 1/2an hour in each game to do his stuff. He's 42 now.
    
    JBG

rec.sport.soccer
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From: walecka@occs.nlm.nih.gov (anthony walecka)
Subject: Be Careful in the USA
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Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 09:22:54

for all of you who think that the u.s. police aren't preparing properly for 
the crowd control issues of the world cup, check this out.

may 17 USA Today

A reserve police officer was accidentally shot to death during a security 
training exercise. He was playing the role of a "troublemaker" at a railway 
station.

    peter,
    
    I just mentioned this in note 87 where the main WC stream is. The paper I
    read had the incident at stanford stadium - I'd have to defer to
    someone who knows S.f better than me whether BART or CALTRAK goes
    out that far - all my paper said was that the incident occurred outside
    the stadium.
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

Sure the details hardly matter ,do they Andrew. 
The fact is that things seem to be getting out of hand on the security front
over there in the Ol' U.S of A !
I just took that note from the Internet so I have no idea which is the accurate
story either.

What type of Riot police do they have over there anyway , SWAT teams ?

I can just imagine all the ground stewards being supplied with knuckle dusters
UZI's and bullet proof jackets.

Steward:

"Hey that guy has an Umbrella and a trumpet" 
"Freeze punk !!!!!! Drop your weapon !!!!!"

Fan:

"What'd he say ?"

Bang Bang Bang...

Steward:

"See that ? He pointed that thing right at me"


 
Cheers,

Peter.

    Can you imagine going to the match on the train.. with a trumpet,
    umbrella.... you've got no chance of seeing the match alive.. 
    thats before you've got to dodge the tanks & climb over the wire
    fences... it sounds more like the Krypton Factor assault course every
    day! :->                
    
    Rick. 

    Well, let's see, what about using pitbulls infected with AIDS, that
    haven't been fed(sp?) for at least three weeks?
    
    Can you bring pets to a game?
    Like goldfish, or a turtle?
    I bet not, you might have made it swallow something dangerous.
    Can you imagine the security people searching the in- and outside of
    your parrot(sp?) and the parrot going:"Hey, don't tickle me, you creepy
    bas###ds!"
    
    That would make the scene a lot funnier.
    
    Marcel
    
    P.S. Not that I ever take a pet to a game, but just for argument's
    sake.

    I wasn't in Digital when this note was started and I don't have enough
    time to plough through all the replies so I may be bringing something
    up which been covered before. However, as we're in the final days
    before WC '94 and it's being met with overwhelming indifference on the
    other side of the pond I thought I'd ask.
    
    Does the US need football, or soccer to them, and does football need
    the US.
    
    I'd say no to both parts. I think the American population are, in the
    main, quite happy with their baseball, (American) football, basketball,
    ice-hockey etc. My view is that football will never take off without
    rule changes to make it more attractive (more goalmouth incident, more
    goals etc). 
    
    Does anyone think it is advantageous or positively dangerous to the
    sport to stage the WC in the States.
    
    Paul.
    

	I'll let you known how it turns out, though this is my first trip to the
world cup, so the likes of gary would be able to give a better judgement.

	As for your questions, will I'd probably agree, but the governing bodies
in US and FIFA had to give it ago and see what could happen. Perhaps it wont
have the same feel of a world cup, but at last they tried it and then the US
cant say they didnt get a fair chance...

My two cents worth....


	Mick

    
    Anyone with a June copy of World Soccer should read the Brian Glanville
    column. Basically what he says is that the organisers of the four other
    sports are scared spitless (yes that's the quote) of what soccer might
    do to their finely tuned budgets. I tend to agree. In the last month,
    Rupert Murdoch ploughed millions into the TV contract for NFL football
    on his FOX network. Baseball is in the doldrums and drumming up every
    conceivable way to get fans back to the ballparks. Basketball and
    hockey are somewhat safer in that they are limited by reasonable
    sized stadia for major cities (ca 20,000). 
    
    If soccer does gain an interest amoungst college kids (and quite a few
    of them will have access to TV's at the time the matches are played)
    then that IMHO will be the biggest gain that FIFA should look to.
    Rather than the US starting up a professional soccer league they should
    try and dovetail a college set up in the spring term. This would be the
    ideal time since it wouldn't have to compete with the always popular
    college gridiron in the autumn (fall). Based on this, a more fluent
    transition could be made to full-time professional league. The hard
    fact of the matter is that baseball is the national pastime in the US
    whilst soccer is the national pastime of most other countries in the
    world.
    
    Dezzz.   

    
    I think age is too old for generating interest in soccer her in the US. 
    It is only in the last 10 years that high schools have begun playing
    soccer as a significant part of their spring sports program.  On the
    college level, football is so entrenched in the American sports psyche
    that soccer may never overcome it.
    
    

    
    Yes but what do colleges do in the spring....I'm sure there are plenty
    of 5'9" guys in college that would welcome a bit of sport in the
    springtime.....
    
    OK so 10 years on and soccer is significant in high schools....All it
    takes is for a few people on the college level to offer an alternative
    to football. Not everybody wants themselves bashed around on a Saturday
    afternoon.
    
    I don't believe that if the US comes up with a World Class player over
    the next few years and showing bucks to boot that the complection of 
    soccer won't change.  
    
    	Dezzz.

New articles on the internet are saying that the American authorities are being
very slow to grant visas to foreign fans from Eastern Europe and Africa.
Apparently only 1509 of 2,000 Nigerian applicants have thus far been allowed to
enter the U.S. 

Mike

    There are plenty of foraign naturilized U. S. citizens in the states.
    But parents are too busy to teach their kids in the old traditions..
    
    My daughter is only 4 years old, and I have been watching soccer on
    Saturday mornings with her for the past year and a half... and teaching
    her a few things about soccer. I'm happy to say that, she can kick a 
    "soccer ball" with both feet, and enjoys very much when I take her to 
    the park and we kick the ball around. Hopefully, I can stick with it,
    and teach her as she grows up. But really, if the parents lose interest,
    the kids will grow up with whatever there is in school and in the streets.
    
    I came from Italy in 1958. I always played soccer as a kid, and enjoy it 
    very much. And would love to have my daughter play for some University
    etc. etc. but I have to instill in her the love and passion for the sport.  
    
    Nick

    Nick,
    
    You must be one helluva coach. Whenever I try to kick the ball with
    both feet I fall flat on my back !
    
    Seriously though, you do have a point. I play a lot of football here in
    Switzerland (although JBG may dispute this claim), and apart from
    anything else it's a great way to meet people when you're living away
    from home. One of the best things about football is it's international
    appeal. The company team that I play for (not Digital, we don't have
    one) is testament to that. The first team squad consists of 4 Swiss, 2
    Italians, 1 Colombian, 1 German, 1 Frenchman, 1 Austrian and 3 Irish
    (although at least one of us is usually injured (liver damage !)).
    
    
    Basically, as you say, it's a question of bringing it with you wherever
    you go. Obviously you face a more uphill challenge in the States than
    we do in Europe. Still, you only need ten more children and you've got
    your own team ;-)
    
    Keep up the good work,
    
    Jerry.

    
    There might be another problem in the USA.
    
    I have a good friend (Frenchman) living at the moment in New Jersey,
    and coaching in a 'soccer' club. He explained me recently that in the
    age range he is coaching (12-14 years old) they have about one hundred 
    youngsters. .... And they can send only one team at their weekly 
    competition, i.e. 15 players, the rest being not selected and
    frustrated... and leaving after some time.
    The reason: lack of fields
    Most of them are devoted for American football or baseball and only 
    very few are left for football/soccer.
    He said that this is a general phenomenon in the States.
    
    He was really scared about this and considered to stop coaching...
    
    Pierre-Yves

If FIFA wanted to develop football and at the same time help some countries
then they should have played the 1994 World Cup In AFRICA. The improvement in 
recent years of African nations has been spectacular and FIFA should have sunk 
a heap of cash into Africa where there is a 100% probability of developing the
game. 

How many leagues are there in the USA ? 
And how many are in Africa ?
How many stadiums were created for the World cup in the USA ?
And how many could have been built in Africa ?

Of course poor old Africa doesn't have Coke or MacDonalds, but then they never
will have as long as money is always spent where the money already is.

However, I may be wrong and World Cup USA may encourage waves of bloaters out of
their fridges and onto the football pitch after America win it.

Yours cynically,
David WOOD

    
    Re .104
    
    Dave,
    
    	I definitely agree with you. The next WC has to be in Africa. 
    I reckon the one after that should be held in Asia. The USA already 
    has its national sports which are well intrenched both from infra-
    structure and historical points of view. For African and Asian nations,
    football is developing into their National sport. This will not happen
    in the USA where there is already hugh amounts of money invested in the
    other sports. For developing nations, football has the advantage that
    it is cheap to start - you just need a flattish piece of land and a
    ball. In the USA this is a restriction because and free space in the
    big cities is already likely to be given over to their existing sports.
    	Whether FIFA wake up and sieze the opportunity to further develop
    football world wide remains to be seen. Their excuse for holding the WC
    in the USA was that the USA is the last great frontier for football to
    conquer (excepting Wales of course 8-). Hopefully football will gain a
    foothold there, but I can't see it becoming their national sport.  
     
    JBG
    

    The only problem with Africa is that most of the nations appart from
    South Africa are either at war , going to war or thinking about going to
    war. In addition they don't have the infrastructure or financial
    where-with-all to build the number of stadia required or the
    facilities.
    
    Africa will probably have to wait another 20 years at least for a World
    Cup unless of course S.A hold it. Japan will most likely get it after
    France and then one of the Arab states or South Africa(which is
    unlikely) and then a European country(England probably) followed by
    South Africa.
    
    Peter.

    
    Eventhough I'd love to see it I think Peter has hit it on the head...
    
    Political and financial stability are probably more important in the
    eyes of FIFA than whether the country is high in the world football
    rankings.
    
    Dezzz. 

    Most of the nations are at war ? There are over 50 countries in Africa
    How many are at war with each other (or civil) ?

    I agree with most of you in Europe and elsewhere that a successful
    American professional league is highly unlikely in the near term.  The
    commercially successful sports here are well established within our
    culture, and there just isn't much room for another high-profile sport.
    
    A hybrid form of football in the US with time-outs, multi-colored
    pitches, adjusted scoring, etc. may actually be created, but will be a
    fad (like the World League of American Football) and die out after a
    few seasons.  
    
    
    

    
    I think once the Yank population see 4 weeks of excellent world class
    football, they'll be crying out for more on a regular basis.
    This is the USA's first *REAL* look at football, and I think they'll
    love every minute off it !

    If I'm wrong, and they don't like football...........
    
    Then they can always watch rangers instead.
    
    8*)
    
    
    

    Rangers? I know you mean Glasgow Rangers, but in the US right now
    everybody talks about the New York Rangers (Ice Hockey), and they,
    together with their opponent, put on a real exciting show that no
    soccer can ever match. So, they might have no problem to switch to
    the 'Rangers'...
    
    I say this being an european myself, btw.
    
    Soccer will catch on here in the US as soon as all those kids you see
    playing the sport reach the age of big-time TV consumption (which is
    quite early here). I wish back home (Germany) I still could see those
    street kids. I dont. If they still play soccer (instead of tennis and
    crap like that) they do it organized in clubs, and the result is that
    sterile, un-inspired soccer you see more and more when watching german
    teams.

    Re: -1
    
    I beg to differ with you!
    
    Back in 1973-78 (or so) there was a soccer league in the U.S.
    There were many kids playing soccer, and everyone thought the same..
    "When these kids grow up... there will be a strong league". Well,
    They even tried to liven the game with superstars like Pele, Chinaghia,
    and even Bachanbauer (sp.) it was fun for about 2-3 years, but the
    people stuck with baseball, basketball, american football and hockey.
    The few people that attended these soccer games were the foraign
    inplents to U.S. like myself.  I remember going to a game in Holleder
    stadium in Rochester New York with a 101 degree of fever, because I
    wanted to watch the New york Cosmos (with Pele) play against the
    Lancers of Rochester. We lost to the mighty Cosmos, but it was a day
    to remember. Americans don't have a chance to progress to a high level
    of professianalism in soccer, unless a hero comes out of these 
    '94 WORLD CUP GAMES. Hey let's face it, it's worth a try!
    
    Nick
    

    I think the US will(have so far) put on a good World cup.... 

    But,  Who the hell there cuts the grass ?  

    It seems in some stadiums we get large circles, in others we get thin
    lines with diagonals on the 18 yard box and others thick lines down the
    whole pitch. All parallel lines are parallel to the half way line.... I
    guess this is in line with there football, i.e. yardage..                    

    Anyone know what the average attendance has been so far. I read
    somewhere that they needed an average attendance of 69% to break the
    all time attendance record.

    Just curious:
    
    Could people from all different contries report in here how the WC is
    been 'lived' in their countries?
    
    Here in Holland, there are decorations everywhere, everything is
    orange, although 'WE' haven't even played a game yet.
    Too bad about the times.
    The earliest games (12:00?) start here at 18:30.
    The later games are at 22:00 or even 1:30!!
    That's just *too* late, even for me!  :)
    
    Marcel

    Germany, Munich... Not much really. The papers have a lot of reporting
    about the team, but not much in the way of posters.
    
    I was at a party yesterday (only Germans) ... most seem to NOT want
    germany to win. I guess as always, they know Germany will do well !!! 

      Here the interest is very high.
      
      Top news in the papers.
      
      Fairly goog hopes after the good EC performance at home 92.
      
      This morning, not everyone has made it to work yet after the match of 
      this morning. Finished 3.30.
      
      The normally very good Swedish centre-back Patrik Andersson has to wake 
      up for us to do well. He gave away 2 goals this morning.
      
      Christer

    > Patrik Andersson has to wake up for us to do well.
    
    	Well he must be worth 10% of what Kenny Daglish paid for him..
    thank God Howard didn't buy him in the end.. :->
    
    Rick.

    
    Here in Scotland there is no euphoria about the World Cup.
    The media here seem to be more interested in the goings on at a 
    third-rate club side from the east end of Glasgow,than anything else.

    
    Here in France, the street interest seems to be the lowest one for
    a while about World Cups.
    
    However, the media coverage is quite good, considering that the team 
    is not qualified. (22 present players are playing in the French league
    though). 
    The TV channels will show ALL the matches, including the ones beginning
    at 1 h 35 a.m. 
    
    Pierre-Yves

just visisted my next door neighbour, he completely covered his house with
orange and red, white & blue flags and banners. He now just left to pick up
posters from the Dutch squad and is going to put them on his house aswell.

Cars are also covered with orange flags, orange stickers on the wheels
and all kinds of clothing are now in orange, even boxer shorts!

T_

>   -< What effect does the WC have in your country? >-
    
    It's pretty low-key here in Australia. There's one TV channel showing
    all the games (most of them live). This channel is non-commercial and
    broadcasts mainly to the ethnic communities in a range of languages. 
    Most of the other channels give the scores a mention during the sports 
    segment. Most people in the country wouldn't know the competition was 
    going on. The interest is really with people from non-Australian 
    backgrounds. An additional problem is that we're in the middle of winter 
    and therefore the middle of our football season (Australian-Rules 
    football, not soccer).
    
    Tony.

If this is still the note for the US team . . .

Tom Dooley has moved from Leverkusen to Schalke.

g