Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    With the Clio, watch the oil level - EVERY day! 
    
    As a rule of thumb these days running in consists of not revving an 
    engine beyond about 4000 rpm for the first 1000 miles, but the handbook
    should give you running in details.
    
    Mark

    When I bought my Escort in 1986, I was told "don't" bother". I did, no
    more than 2000rpm for 500 miles, 3000 rpm for 1500. I've now done
    nearly 90K, and still have no problems with burning oil (except iffy
    oil seals, but that's no big deal), loss of power, compression etc.
    
    I'd do the same again, it can't possibly hurt, can it?
    
    Laurie.

    
    To give a motor some chance of elongated life I suggest you not only
    observe the from `new running in' rules but also a few others. For
    instance not blatting the throttle on cold starting or hard driving
    until the temperature guage shows normal. I also practise replacing
    engine oil twice as regularly as recommended. My car has now 265000 on
    the clock - QED.
    
    Ian 

    I go along with that. In the old days, not running an engine in gave it
    a useful life of about 2 weeks. Nowadays they're much better. However,
    if you want to get the best, you should still run-in.
    
    Excessive revving from cold really shortens engine life, especially
    just after starting.
    
    Laurie.

>>    Excessive revving from cold really shortens engine life, especially
>>    just after starting.
    
    I've said it before, but I'll mention it again now, as to how surprised
    I was to see how much longer it takes for the oil to warm up after the
    water has reached normal indicated temperature.  Basically, the oil
    stayed cold until well after water temp gauge was on normal.  This, I
    only realised when I had the Lancia with oil + water temp gauges.  One
    clue as to this effect would be that oil pressure doesn't drop (from cold)
    as quick as the water temperature rises.  Anyhow, this just means that
    you shouldn't stress the engine as soon as water temp seems ok.
    
    I also hope that any turbo-owners (not so common nowadays) appreciate
    the importance of letting the turbine cool down before switching off...
    
    J.R.

    RE .1
    
    I believe in the CLIO there is an oil gauge anyway, saves nipping out
    in the cold weather.

    
    Re .6
    
    So has the 19, but a lot of people have had trouble with the oil
    disappearing! :^(
    
    The Renault oil gauge is an odd instrument and I wouldn't want to rely
    on it in an engine known to consume oil prodigously in the first few
    thousand miles!
    
    Mark

    My two consecutive R25's were kept under 3000 rpm for the first 1500
    miles and benefited.  Cannot over emphasise the importance of the first
    service (@1500 miles?) and getting it done by a Renault Agent.
    
    Doug

	I think you'll find that Renault and many others have
	discontinued the '1000 mile' post delivery service.

	They say it's no longer necessary, but I fancy that it's
	just cost cutting.

	-John

    Munce it's going to take yonks for you to work your way up to 8,000
    revs at that rate :-)
    
    I have read and remembered this quote about the Swift engine at higher
    revs i.e. 7000+ ! "is sounds like a demented sewing machine".
    
    Nice cars though. Pity they don't import them in black anymore. Have
    you got white OR red then ? :-)
    
    Gary.

    Munce it is a very free reving engine and is described as a jem in
    Performance Car. A chap round the corner from me has a white one too
    (but without all the graphics). I've sat in a black one in a Suziki
    showroom and really like them. Strange gearlever though, very phalic
    :-)
    
    The Swift side and bonnet decals look great in my opinion. What do you
    think of it so far ?
    
    Gary.

	 RUBBISH.
 
	 Anyway getting back to the point of this note, in the early days
	 of car manufacture car engines weren't tested and were sent
	 straight to the showrooms. Now days with more viscous oils and
	 better manufacture 'running in', there isn't any need to run an engine
	 'in'. Anyway whats the point of running a car at below 4500 revs
	 for 2500 miles then hacking the living daylights out of it. 
         Surely its better to give the engine the flexibility early on, by
	 progressively using the full power/rev band ,ie, at high as well as 
         low speeds.
 
	 regards,

         Mr GTR5TURBO ( twice voted hothatch of the year in 'CAR' magazine)
	

    
    What a shame you didn't leave your name, we could know what car to
    avoid second hand...
    
    Just my view,
    
    William.

    That's just what I like to see. Reasoned rational replies from an
    informed stand-point, backed by facts and experience. Last of all, with
    a name to it; I mean, what's the point of an opinion if you daren't
    sign your name?
    
    Laurie.
    
    PS. I, for one, will continue to treat my engines gently both at first,
        and when they're "cold".

    
    Most cars need very little extended running-in these days -- BUT the
    Renault 16V is a MAJOR exception.
    
    We have 2 19 16V in our family. Both have been great once the engine has 
    gone beyond 5000 miles. Until then, they are near to torture -- one engine
    blew apart at 3000, despite being driven gently (4k rpm max). The other
    has had intermittent problems in early life.
    
    Do check the oil very frequently, & I'd insist on an early service --
    despite what Renault say. My son is about to return one of the cars to
    Renault, as his company have offered him a Cavalier as a replacement
    --- they can't afford the aggavation & time-loss the 19 has caused.
    
    Shame, 'cos the chances are that he has now lived through the worst!
    
    Colin

    Yes I most definitely of the opinion that cars should be run in gently.
    My last car was an XR2 which I bought with 5,000 miles on the clock.
    The thing burnt oil like nobodies business, even after having the valve
    stem oil seals replaced. Then a few months after buying the car a
    bloke in a red RS Turbo came up along side and said, how do you like
    the motor ? He then revealed himself to be the previous owner and said
    that he found the XR2 to be a particularly quick example. He attributed
    this to him driving it hard form brand new and giving it a good thrash
    whilst "running in".
    
    Well I attribute this early thrashing to be the cause of the heavy oil
    consumption (brought about by engine wear); so soon after, I sold the XR
    and bought an RS Turbo. I'm amazed by how little oil it uses, even
    after 36,000 miles and a boost pressure of 15 psi. I have never driven
    it hard when cold.
    
    In my opinion excessive revving of a new, or cold engine can do only
    harm.
    
    Gary.

    ALWAYS run in a new engine, (if you want reliability, low oil
    consumption, etc, etc).
    
    When an engine is new it's very 'tight', this is the main reason for
    engines not giving their best power output until later on in life, the
    R19 16V is a prime example of this. If you drive the car hard from day
    one then there WILL be increased wear. If you're gentle then the engine
    will gradually loosen up without so much wear.
    
    It should also be noted that a high percentage of engine wear occurs
    when the engine is being started, but without get the oil pressure up
    before actually spinning the engine there's not much that can be done
    about this !.
    
    Dave.
    
    (Who ran in a R5 GT Turbo just in time to get it nicked !!).
    

    Re last.
    
    I think the best advice is if I may quote the last.
    
    " When an engine is new it is very tight."
    
    Think upon it as a young fair innocent maiden. The first time you take
    her out for a ride. You would got at it like a bat out of hell would
    you. You treat her carefully and considerately until well run in.
    
    
    
    Then go at it like a bat out of hell.
    
    
    Regs,
    
    Barry.

    
    I've been thinking about this part of running in a vehicle.
    
    Why do manufacurers ask this ? I would imagine that nobody brakes hard
    for the fun of it and as you enter an out of control skid in the
    direction of a lollypop lady and 15 kids its not really nice to lean
    out of the window screaming "Get out of the way, I'm not allowed to
    brake hard". Splat.
    
    There is obviously a technical reason behind this but I think the
    wording should be more "Do not brake hard unless in an emergency".
    
    Useless thought for the day,
    -Tony

Tony,
	Whenever new pads are fitted to cars, it takes some time for them to bed
in and take the contour/shape of the disc, as the disc will have some high spots.

	Tyres need bedding-in too.  The manufacturing process for tyres needs,
at the end of it, the tyres to be run for 200 - 400 miles at very moderate 
speed, with no hard braking or cornering to properly finish the curing and
"bleeding" out of minute bubbles of air between the layers of the tyre 
construction.  These bubbles in particular can be dangerous, causing a blow-out
if they are not dissipated during the bedding in process.  The reason that
the manufacturers do not do this is because the tyres would look "second hand"
when new and wouldn't sell.

	Running-in tyres pays dividends on the mileage (fuel whilst running-in
the new tyres, and tyre life) as well as prolonging active life by lessening 
the chances of a blow-out!

				Malcolm who worked at Dunlop at one stage.

    
    Is there a way of speeding this 'braking in' process up ? Ie, driving
    back and forwards braking gently ? The idea of driving back and forth 
    to work without good brakes doesn't help me sleep any.
    
    -Tony

    
    re .2
    
    Malcom, I was interested to hear from someone who had once worked for a
    tyre manufacturer now working for DEC as I used to work for Michelin.
    However, I worked in a TRUCK and PSV tyre manufacturing plant not a car
    plant. It would be interesting to exchange views on the manufacturing
    of tyres, albeit at a very general level which would not infringe any
    intellectual property or patent detail. What was it that you did at
    Dunlop? I worked in Uniformity of tyre quality and spent most of my
    time designing handling defects out of tyres. (Very interesting for the
    first few years, not so after a few years) Lots of fourrier analysis
    and stuff like that.
    
    Looking forward to hearing from you,
    
    Ian....

    Tony,
    
    Your brakes will work perfectly well, it's just that you will shorten
    the life of the pads considerably if you don't bed them in gently. You
    can speed this process up by using your brakes for longer, and more
    gently, than you normally would. The idea is to get the pads to wear
    to "fit" the discs, harsh braking will not acheive this.
    
    Laurie.
    

    Re: Gentle brakes...
    
    How about the grinding marks on the disk taking a while to wear to a
    smooth surface, so if you hit the brakes hard when these marks are
    present the pads get machined away more than normal.
    
    Good enough guess eh?
    
    I wonder if the delivery drivers ever care about this?
    
     Mike
                                             

>    
>    I wonder if the delivery drivers ever care about this?
>    
doubt it, the driver that delivered my Astra SRi said "Fun car to drive" as he
left...


Paul.

you dont want to rely on the brakes until they have bedded
in but the best way to bed them in is to brake hard.
Just dont expect to stop quickly.
  As regards running tyres in? phooey unless
you are doing the st elvo pass every day to work.
And then its a moot point.

	Tyres dont grip very well for the first few miles
until you've scrubbed the irregular bits off
but the  best way is to give it a a good thrash
just dont  expect much grip.