Conference terri::cars_uk

    Hey,
    
    Did you see FISA got abolished yesterday?
    
    Hopefully we should get some more 'considered decisions' about F1 and
    the way it should go.
    
    I personally watch from my armchair, every race. I would love to go but
    I am afraid 60 quid is a bit steep. However I enjoy the spectacle on TV
    at least of cars going QUICKLY. Dropping wing area and using small
    tyres and not allowing traction control and reactive suspension
    systems, is I admit giving a bit closer racing this year, but the
    spectacle isn't the same.
    
    When you consider that the majority of money comes from the TV, perhaps
    they will think about it.
    
    So go on shoot me down ;*)
    
    Stuart

    What's happened is that FISA effectively became a merged part of FIA
    rather than an associated body. FIA will now have a sporting wing and a
    tourism wing. Balestre has stood down, and I believe Moseley has been
    elected to replace him as president of the FIA.

>>    What's happened is that FISA effectively became a merged part of FIA
>>    rather than an associated body. 
    
    I was a bit worried until I read "Balestre has stood down"! 
    
    There is something (well many things actually) about the guy I wouldn't
    trust as far as I could... 
    
    I can remember at Monaco, about 3 years ago, the "warm" welcome he
    received from the crowd when on a parade lap! It amused me no end, plus
    I learnt some new French "4 letter" words that day! 

    So who is the rumoured team to be receiving Renault engines next year?
    Benetton(sp?)?  Since maybe Ford will jump to Maclaren??
    
    
    

I read in Autocar and Motor that Nigel Mansell is rumoured to have been talking
to TWR about running a team in next years Indycar series (yes, I know that this
is the 1994 F1 note). My imagination started running riot when I remembered that
Mansell was rumoured to have been talking with Bennetton after Flavio Briatore,
Bernie Ecclestone and Sheridan Thynne were seen together in a London restaurant
(or seen in the same restaurant or something...).

Doesn't Tom Walkinshaw manage the Bennetton racing team? Could it be that Mansell
is talking to TWR about running a car in the Indy 500 only and will return to
F1 with Bennetton in 1994? Is this all a load of old rubbish? Yeah, probably but
there's always hoping.

It would be interesting if Nigel Mansell returned to F1 in 94 having had a year
to get used to driving cars without all the high tech stuff. I wonder how Williams
will be able to adjust to losing all the gizmos having had them for longer than
anyone else? it must be like having to go back to writing code in assembler after
using C++!

Brendan.

RE: .5

Mansell has been talking to the US press as though he intends to drive in at 
least the Indy 500 next year.  His contract with Newman/Haas is for one year 
only, so he'd be free to drive for Benetton in 1994 if he wishes.  Mansell 
seems to be thoroughly enjoying himself in IndyCars this season.

--PSW

    
    The Autocar report suggests TWR will be running an Indycar team
    next year and that Nige was talking to them about driving for that
    team - not Benetton.
    
    The report says that Mansell has fallen out with half of the
    Newman-Haas team and doesn't want to renew his contract.
    
    Richard.

    The report actually says that Mansell is unhappy in the way the
    team has partitioned itself into two groups - one supporting Mansell &
    one supporting Andretti. This is from a 'source' whose status in the 
    team (assuming he/she is even _in_ the team...) wasn't disclosed.
    
    Mike.

    About team partitioning Sauber/Merc seems to be in this state at
    the moment from what was said during the GP on Eurosport this weekend.

re .8

>    The report actually says that Mansell is unhappy in the way the
>    team has partitioned itself into two groups - one supporting Mansell &
>   one supporting Andretti. This is from a 'source' whose status in the 
>    team (assuming he/she is even _in_ the team...) wasn't disclosed.

A report in the Times today quotes Mansell as being likely to extend
his contract with Newman/Hass and any return to F1 as being very
unlikely. He said he thought he had two - three more years of top
class racing in him and he expected to spend them in the US.

	Dave

RE; -1

That seems to have been confirmed at this weekends British GP by Bernard
'Mister Formula One' Ecclestone.

In an interview with BBC, Bernie -- as he is affectionately known -- claimed
that Mansell was miserable in IndyCars. He said that Nige could beat any of 
'those guys' with one leg cut off and his arm tied behind his back. But he
is frustrated, if he (or anyone else) builds up a big lead in a race, they
bring out the yellow flags or the pace car to make it all even again.

He added that he felt Mansell would have won the Indy 500 had the rules not
been Indy!!!

Anyway, having painted this picture of a sad and frustrated Mansell hating
every moment of leading the PPG championship, he then suggested that
the door to an F1 return was probobly shut. Bernie feels that there just aren't
any drives available!

The thing is, with 1993 half-way through now, the F1 circus knows that it can
survive without Nigel Mansell.

Martin Brundle, in another BBC tv interview, told us that there was a good
atmosphere amongst the drivers this year. I wonder why?

Terry B.

Mansell's own press interviews don't confirm Bernie's assessment of Nigel being 
sad and miserable in IndyCars.  Far from it--he seems to be enjoying himself. 
The IndyCar championship is also not turning out to be a walk-over:  Mansell 
has the points lead, so far, but the Penske team have out-raced him at the last 
two outings.

Ecclestone lives in his own world.

--PSW

>The thing is, with 1993 half-way through now, the F1 circus knows that it can
>survive without Nigel Mansell.

Tell that to Silverstone (Warning: They may put on a brave face!).

Dave.

I don't think I will be getting an f1 drive next year either.

Tony.

It seems to me that instead of Formula 1 being well rid of Nigel Mansell, that
Nigel Mansell is well rid of Formula 1, with its processions, politics, and
eceoteric (spelling?) expensive technology which reduces the racing to a farce
relative to Indycar ( except for the odd exciting bit like when Senna was
holding up Prost at Silverstone !).

    It was interesting that Ecclestoned -- wasn't he? -- put the low crowd
    figure down to maybe having to put the Donnington show on ealier in the
    year.
    
    Steve Rider -- the BBC interviewer -- suggested to Bernard that maybe
    the 105 pounds ticket price had something to do wth it!
    
    Personally, I feel there is more interest in motorsport at the moment
    than for a long, long time. It has to be said that Mansell-itis
    contributes to this. The other factor is that F1 represents our (UK)
    nations best chances of success, compared to our footballers and
    cricketers. Yes, I know the Athletes do well, but that's not as
    'glamarous' is it.                               
    
    Unfortunately, we get the tabloid-style rumours and story manufacturing
    that surrounded and hyped-up the Silverstone week-end.
    
    Still, it ensures we get more coverage on tv.
    
    Terry B.

    I remember noticing a couple of years back when they did that really
    big rise in entry price from twenty something to fifty odd quid that
    the attendance on race day dropped a lot (even in the face of a Mansell
    win). You could tell just by the lack of queues everywhere. Then I
    think Mansell mania caused a real aberration last year with people
    coming who'd never been near a track, I remember seeing groups of
    people with their football flags. Another noticeable thing in recent
    years is that a lot more people go to the practice days, which are a
    lot cheaper, presumably at the expense of going on race day. So I'd
    agree that when it comes down to it the basic reason is the cost.

    Well, I wonder if the millions paid to the drivers is justified... I
    mean, surely one million a year is adequate, it's a *huge* amount.
    Prost, according to the Beeb, is on FIVE million a year, which, by any
    standards is ludicrous. Yeah, I know Nigel wanted far more...
    
    Laurie.

    Well the FIA has certainly put the cat amongst the pidgeons with
    yesterdays ruling. 
    
    What happens next with Williams etc., they appeal?

re -1

This should be in 1993 F1 as the ruling will come into effect immediately.
That is, once the appeal from Williams and Benneton has been heard. 
Removing the traction control is one think and can be done with effort.
Removing active suspension (when most cars already have it) mid session
is going to cause havoc. If the ruling is upheld at appeal, the 1993
session is meaningless IMO.

	Dave

    Ruling was that active suspension, ABS, and traction control are banned
    now. If there is an appeal (and there is I think) then the ban will be
    postponed until Hungary.
    
    Apparently all the teams met to try to agree at Siverstone. The high
    tech teams agreed on banning ABS and traction control but not active.
    The low tech teams insisted on banning everything in a vain attenmt to
    bring the others down to their own level of mediocrity. So they didn't
    get the required 100% support.
    
    The "fuel irregularity" hearing is today.	

RE: .23

That's leveling the playing field by chopping bits of the top of all players 
until they stand no higher than the shortest.  Is Max Moseley a closet BMS/Lola 
fan?

Both Williams and McLaren have filed an appeal, so I guess it's postponed.

--PSW

    Motoring News has a piece today on Lotus signing for Honda-Mugen
    engines for next year. The engine will be a V10 built by Honda and
    badged as a Mugen. Mugen will cease their link with Footwork. The news
    was in a story in a japanese newspaper often used by Honda to leak
    news. Lotus will buy the engines for the same price as their Ford HBs.
    
    Also - outlawed for 1994:
    
    Active Ride
    Traction Control
    ABS
    Pit to Car telemetry (other way is OK)
    Four wheel steering
    Active camber control
    
    
    Other changes proposed:
    
    Limit of 12 or 16 engines per season gone, but a proposal for a max of
    64 engines built per manufacturer, each sealed by FISA.
    
    Increased maximum weight
    
    Max fuel capacity 100 litres, with mandatory gravity feed - therefore
    fuel stops would be back.
    
    Also proposed that current engine regs stand until 2001
    
    So, OK systems for 1994 include semi-auto boxes, pit to car radios, CVT
    boxes (as being tested by Williams)
    
    
    Finally, Mugello being mooted as home for 1994 San Marino GP due to
    noise restrictions at Imola.
    
    Paul

	Everything but re-fuelling sounds ok to me (but I'm not
	running a multi-million pound racing outfit).  The 64 sealed	
	engines sounds wierd (what if you want to modify the engine
	over the season?).

	As for Lotus, I'd love to see them up at the top, maybe a decent
	engine would do it for them.  Meanwhile, a question, how does
	the Mugen engine differ from the engines Honda used to supply
	to McLaren?  How come Footwork don't do well with it (do they
	have a lousy chassis et al)?

	Dave 

Is that for refueling or for feeding fuel from the gas tank to the engine?

Come to think of it, it has to be for refueling since all the cars have f/i
which runs at a *slightly* higher pressure than 14.7psi.....

Dave

    I heard a variant on the refuelling rule in that refuelling (gravity
    fed) would now be *permitted* rather than mandated by small maximum
    tankage. Therefore teams could revert to the situation when it was
    their choice whether they went for the option to go for smaller tankage
    and refuelling. I sincerely hope we don't revert to a fuel consumption
    limitation.
    

RE: .28

One option that Max Mosley has talked about is throwing out the engine 
displacement constraints, ban on turbocharging, etc., and replacing them with a 
fuel consumption limitation.  In other words, you can run as big an engine as 
you wish, if you can make it consume less than a set number of miles/gallon of 
fuel.  This approach has in general been very successful in sports car racing.

--PSW

    Another change I saw reported was that points will be awarded down to
    10th. I don't know if this means adopting the 20-15-12-10-8-6-4321
    that some formulae use. That would reverse the previous trend to up the
    value of a win from 8 to 9 then 10.

    ...and yet more changes (gleaned from Autosport today)
    
    Agreement for Concord purposes (!) now only requires approval from all
    teams who were among the top 10 constructors in 2 of the last 3
    seasons.
    
    Minimum weight for cars is raised because it now INCLUDES the driver
    fully kitted out with helmet etc. This is clearly another brick in the
    "get Prost" campaign because they've cottoned on to the fact that his
    success is almost entirely due to being almost the lightest driver
    around!!! Also cars have to be built to allow for drivers up to 6' 3".
    
    As I mentioned before, refuelling is allowed rather than mandated.
    
    Tanks have to have a minimum capacity of 200 litres. So this precludes
    radical redesign round significantly smaller tanks.

    
    >Minimum weight for cars is raised because it now INCLUDES the driver
    >fully kitted out with helmet etc. This is clearly another brick in
    >the "get Prost" campaign because they've cottoned on to the fact that
    >his success is almost entirely due to being almost the lightest driver
    >around!!!
    
    Weight really is important.  I have found that a 150 lb passenger adds 
    ~1.0 sec/lap minute for clockwise tracks and ~1.5 sec/lap minute for 
    counter-clockwise tracks with my BMW 1600.  Of course, the advantage
    will still be with the lighter driver, unless the regulations severely
    restrict where the ballast can be placed. 
    
    Bjorn. 

    Rumour off last night's Indy Car race....
    
    Paul Tracey coming to Jordan with Labatts backing
    
    Interesting?
    
    Paul

    Paul,
    
    Funny this rumor should come up. I spoke with Tracey in Manchester New
    Hampshire last Wed night and asked him about going to F1. He told me that
    while he respects F1 very much, he felt very confortable with the
    Penske team. Remember there was a time a few months back where the
    rumors were flying around that Senna might get his seat. In fact
    through Emmo, Senna flew out to the states and did take Tracey/Emmo's
    car out for a few laps.
    
    Any thing is possible, but Roger seems very happy with Tracey., and
    Paul made it pretty clear that he intends to stay in Indycars, at least
    for the next season or two...
    
    								-mike-

    From Eurosport/BBC:
    
    Briatore & Patrese announced that Riccardo was moving on from Benetton
    in 1994
    
    From Johnny Herbert's column in the Standard:
    
    He reckons that a Benetton-Renault team with Schumacher & Senna is a
    distinct possibility for 1994. Presumably, with Marlboro money as well?
    
    Paul

    I can't believe Ron Dennis would let Senna AND Renault slip through his
    grasp. There's also rumours that he has done a Renault deal for '94.
    
    BTW, apparently Hill tested a passive suspension Williams at last
    week's Silverstone testing. While the politicking was going on,
    Williams had quietly got it ready for Hungary, just in case.
    
    
                    

>> Williams had quietly got it ready for Hungary, just in case.

Typical of Patrick and Frank...

Gates and Palmer etc... would be eaten for breakfast

    Ref Senna/McLaren/Benetton/Renault etc.....
    
    There have been comments that Renault are willing to supply another
    team but only if Senna is part of the package. Given FW's recent
    history, what are the odds on him kicking out Prost if he wins the
    title? I personally reckon that Senna would have won every race this
    year if he had been in a Williams bar any mechanical failures.
    
    Paul;

    When do EuroSport do the review of the GP, where they have all the
    interviews intermingled with the race highlights?
    
    Greg

	RE: .38    

>>>>    There have been comments that Renault are willing to supply another
>>>>    team but only if Senna is part of the package. Given FW's recent
>>>>    history, what are the odds on him kicking out Prost if he wins the
>>>>    title? I personally reckon that Senna would have won every race this
>>>>    year if he had been in a Williams bar any mechanical failures.

	Yes, Paul, very likely indeed. In fact, the process has already 
	started; you can tell by the way they first stalled Prost's engine by 
	remote control on the starting line and then how, having sabotaged 
	his wing, they just left him sitting in the back of the pits while 
	they attended to Hill's tyres.

	/Ben

RE: .41

I suppose you also believe that the UN is secretly controlled by the Trilateral 
commission, who ultimately report to the space aliens who kidnapped Elvis.

Never ascribe to a clever conspiracy what can be explained by bad luck, 
stupidity, or incompetance.

--PSW

    Talking of bad luck, stupidity, etc. I remember reading about how one
    of Williams' all time lows was reached back in the mid seventies. At a
    GP, Lella Lombardi's car was out of commission for some reason so she
    was sitting out the race leaving Jacques Lafitte in the other car. Then
    just before the start he picked up what he thought was his eye-spray,
    but turned out to be his visor cleaning fluid. Net result was that he
    rendered himself temporarily blind. So at the last minute they tried to
    get Lella to change and hop in the car. When she attempted the hop it
    was found that her backside was way wider than Jacques so she wouldn't
    fit in the car. End result, one fit car, one fit driver, nothing on the
    grid. But, as we all know, things did get better for Frank...

RE: .42

>>> Never ascribe to a clever conspiracy what can be explained by bad luck, 
>>> stupidity, or incompetance.

	Oh, no ! The people who write in this conference seem to be 	
	conspiring against me...

	/Ben

    Now that the silly season is underway.....
    
    Strong rumours of a merger between Minardi & BMS, plus possibly Rumi's
    old Fondmetal outfit. Alternatively BMS may close up altogether and go
    saloon car racing.
    
    Two new teams coming in for sure are Simtek (David Brabham signed as
    one driver) and Pacific (Gachot possibly signed)
    
    F3000 boys and testers looking for seats:
    
    de Ferran, Coulthard, Frentzen, Panis, McNish, Naspetti, Bernard and,
    of course, Hakkinen!
    
    Possible "sweep out" candidates:
    
    de Cesaris, Boutsen, Zanardi, Katayama, Lehto, Patrese, Alboreto,
    Badour, Alliot
    
    Pretty safe for drives next year:
    
    Prost, Senna (if he wants one), Hill, Schumacher, Alesi, Berger,
    Brundle, Blundell, Barichello, Fittipaldi, Herbert (staying at Lotus?),
    Suzuki (taking Mugen to Lotus?)
    
    Any other speculations?
    
    Paul

    According to A'sport, Senna was part of Marlboro's new 3 year deal with
    McLaren. However, that didn't stop them in the adjacent article speculating
    about Senna and Williams.
    
    

    Possible changed races:
    
    Hungaroring out - Indonesia in
    Donington out - Pacific (Japan #2) in
    S Africa out - USA in
    
    From various rumours
    
    Paul

RE: .47

What US venue do the rumors place the new US GP at?

--PSW

    The main one is Washington in a Park a la Adelaide.
    
    Paul

    Does anyone know what's wrong with the real "road" circuits such as Road
    America and Laguna Seca in FISA's eyes? CART goes there quite happily,
    and they look like real circuits instead of the Mickey Mouse ones that
    F1 has done the last few years. I'd guess they don't have the requisite
    press centres, FISA/FOCA reception suites and hospitality areas. Maybe
    they don't want CART and F1 on the same circuit - might lead to some
    odious comparisons!

RE: .49

The US National Park Service has already said no to the proposed street course 
in Washington.


RE: .50

Most of the permanent road courses in the US would need major upgrades to 
either track safety (this is the problem at Watkins Glen and Elkhart Lake), to 
garage accomodations (almost everywhere), or to the press and VIP amenities. 
Courses like Mid-Ohio that meet the FISA standards for these things are out in 
the boonies and too far away from a major city for the FISA jet-setter's 
tastes.  FISA just hasn't been able to find a site that they like that's 
willing to expend the $$$ to support a US GP.

--PSW

    Nigel,
    
    Road America and Laguna Seca (and Mid-Ohio) are all very good circuits. 
    I agree with your speculation about why they are not deemed to be
    suitable for F1.  In addition, there are probably some issues with
    runoff areas and the quality of the surface and curbs.  There is also a
    problem with that wall between the pit lane and the pit "garages".  
    But nothing that lots of money in Bernie's pocket couldn't cure.
    
    >Maybe they don't want CART and F1 on the same circuit - might lead to
    >some odious comparisons!
    
    With the power to weight ratio advantage that F1 has over Indycars, the
    only tracks where the comparison could potentially be odious other than
    in the quality of the show would be Indy and Michigan.
    
    Bjorn.

    Regarding the outlawing of traction control for 1994.
    
    How is this actually stated ?
    
    Currently traction control works by disabling sparks to one or more
    cylinders and as such is a torque control mechanism.
    
    If the ban is on torque limiters (which is basically what traction
    control is) then this could also apply to rev-limiters as they work in
    the same way and effectively limit torque.
    
    Does anyone have any more information on this new piece of legislation.
    
    Ian.

Having seen a few races on TV from theses venues I'm not surprised that they
won't be used. (Real shame though, Elkhart Lake is a real road circuit). The
shunt they showed last night showed exactly why, and I guess Traceys accident in
practice didn't do a lot for them. Have they also forgotten Fabi's CanAm
accident? Whilst it wouldn't take a lot to do it, runoffs and the like, wouldn't
it spoil the circuit, All those chicanes, just think of them!!

M

    	Didn't somebody mention a US circuit in Baltimore, MD??

Not that I know of, but that doesn't mean much.  There is a road course in West
Virginia - Summit Point - which is used for club racing.  It's relatively close
to Baltimore, probably 2-3 hours away, but I doubt it's up to FIA standards.

Dave

    Current state of teams/rumours
    
    Williams	Staying with Renault, who knows on the drivers
    McLaren	Possible switch to Lambo/Chrysler, trying hard to keep
    		Senna
    Benetton	Ford or Renault, new partner for Schumacher required
    Ferrari	Supposedly no change, but who really knows
    Lotus	Switching to Mugen-Honda V10, Herbert likely to stay Suzuki
    		a possible partner
    Sauber	Wendlinger secure, Lehto probably out
    Footwork	Losing Honda power, customer Ford engine?
    Larrousse	Teaming with Peugeot, probably staying with same drivers
    Ligier	Still with renault, likely to change one of the two "B"s
    Minardi	Merging with BMS, likely to stay with Ford
    Lola	Looking for engine partner following split from BMS &
    		Ferrari
    Tyrrell	Staying with Yamaha?
    Jordan	Staying with Hart?
    
    New entrants:
    
    Pacific	Using Ilmor V10, Gachot supposedly signed
    Simtek	No known engine, David Brabham signed
    Penske	with L'il Al???!?!
    
    Drivers likely to "seek alternative employment" ie retire:
    
    Boutsen, Patrese, de Cesaris, Alboreto
    
    Paul
    

    What happened to Audi ? Earlier this year they had very firm plans to
    enter F1 soon in full size (car and engine). Later they were strongly
    rumoured to be supplying engines to McLaren in 1994.

    I think that Renault has denied any possibility of supplying a third
    team, so the Benetton-Renault deal looks unlikely.
    
    Edward

    L'Equipe today is announcing that Peugeot will announce today ... (it's
    getting complicated) ...
    
    ... that they will enter F1 in 1994 by supplying engines.
    
    L'Equipe think that Peugeot will team up with Larrousse.
    
    Stay tuned ...

    They have made an announcement that they are in - with a V10 and with
    jabouille as Tech Director, but have not named a team. Maybe McLaren
    are still talking?
    
    Paul

    It's official! This is great news indeed. Peugeot - even without Todt -
    has the know-how and the clout to push Renault very hard. The head of
    Peugeot Talbot Sports stated that they'd be gunning for the title
    outright in their third season.
    
    Still no official word on who they'll be working with. Whoever it is,
    it will be on a "partnership" basis and the engines will not be sold.
    
    Anyone who was been to Le Mans or any other WSC race over the past couple
    of seasons will know that this is a great sounding engine!
    
    Edward

    re: .58
    
    If I remember correctly Autosport or Motoring News earlier this year
    rang Audi, asked for the F1 dept, and were put straight thru'...
    
    The present VW/Audi & Opel scandal may affect any future plans Audi has
    in this direction. 
    
    Gabriel

    I heard this morning that Andretti will definetly be returning to Indy
    cars next year.   Anybody else here this ?
    
    Shaun.

re.65:

Yes, see the 1993 F1 topic #1830

Dave.

Nigel Mansell has signed a 2-year contract to drive IndyCars for Newman/Haas in 
'94 and '95.  So we won't see him back in F1 next year (he said he'd had 
offers from F1 teams, but wouldn't say which teams).

What was that Bernie Ecclestone was saying about Nige being unhappy in IndyCar?

--PSW

    A report in today's Irish Times says Peugeot are considering four teams.
    McLaren,Benneton,Larrouse and ......... Jordan! Peugeot have visited
    Jordan and were impressed. The Peugeot engine deal also includes Esso
    sponsorship.
    
    Gabriel
                                         

    MNews also speculates that peugeot will partneer with TWR to create a
    "debugging" car for 1994, and then move to supply Benetton in 1995.
    Benetton seem to have lost the Rebnault option, so will stay with Ford.
    Apparently the contract they have with Schumacher says that unless they
    are in the top three in the Constructor's Ch. Mikey the Shoe is a free
    agent.
    
    Paul

    Bits and bobs picked up from the papers and the TV during the
    Portuguese GP weekend.
    
    Senna to Williams-Renault. A foregone conclusion?
    Chrysler to power Mclaren. Another foregone conclusion? Apparently
    Senna wanted the engine in the car for the last two races of the
    season.
    Mercedes has bought Chevrolet's shares in Ilmor. Next year the Saubers
    will be called Sauber-Mercedes, officially.
    Eric Bernard to partner Martin Brundle at Ligier.
    If Peugeot teams up with Larrousse, then they will bring Yannick Dalmas
    with them.
    Olivier Panis is in the running for a seat at either Williams or
    Bennetton.
    
    This is all, of course, completely unconfirmed...
    Edward.

    makes sense about Mercedes and sauber. Very like the sportscar
    situation. Peter Sauber got a car running well without full Mercedes
    backing then . The car changed colour from the deep blue with AEG
    sponsorship ( I think I'm right that AEG is a division of Daimler Benz)
    to silver with the Mercedes badge and very little sponsorship.
    
    Garry

Here is some food for thought about the '94 season.  I looked up the past years
when there was only 1 former WDC in the field and if they were able to win the
title against the other drivers.  Here is what it looks like:

51 - Farina - No
56 - Fangio - Yes
57 - Fangio - Yes
58 - Fangio - No
59 - no past WDC in the field!
60 - Brabham - Yes
61 - Brabham - No
75 - E. Fittipaldi - No
92 - Senna - No
94 - Senna - ?????

No real pattern here, except that since 1961, if there was only 1 former WDC in
the field, they did not win the title.  In fact, Fangio and Brabham only got a
'Yes' when they were reigning WDC, so the odds (based on history) of Senna
winning the title are not very good.

Dave

    Last night on Eurosport they said that McLaren had offered Michael
    Schumacher 12 million dollars to drive for them next season!

    French radio confirmed that Alain Prost declared 
    
     - he will stay in F1 (from the end of this season)
     - he will get closer to Ligier
    
    Translation: Prost will be Ligier's team manager ?

    Reading between the lines in this weeks comics, Peugeot seems to be
    moving closer to Ligier, thus giving Bennetton a chance of Renault
    engines, while Chyrsler are saying they want to win the c'ship.
    Chyrsler are also interested in powertrain development. McLaren just happen
    to have a CVT almost ready to race. 
    
    Gabriel

    Footwork are to reduce or withdraw their sponsorship of the
    Footwork(Arrows) F1 team next year.
    
    Gabriel

    According to Ceefax Peugeot have signed up with McLaren for next year.
    Gabriel

    Mclaren and Peugeot have signed an agreement for the EXCLUSIVE supply
    of the Peugeot engine to Mclaren for "several" years. It is assumed
    that Hakkinen will be the first driver. According to JP Jabouille, the
    second driver will not be announced until December and the decision is
    Big Ron's responsibility alone.
    
    I think that this is very good news. Given time, I'm convinced that the
    Mclaren Peugeots will match the Williams Renaults. Jabouille said that
    he had been negotiating with Jordan and Benneton. He also announced that
    Mclaren was the ONLY team to have contacted him after he decided to
    build a new engine from scratch, rather than building on the successful
    V10 used in the 905.
    
    Peugeot seems to be delighted with this decision, so am I.
    
    Salut,
    Edward      

    
    Damon Hill yesterday stated that nothing was fixed (Driver wise) in the 
    Williams team for next season. However, he sounded very relaxed.
    
    Mark
    
    PS He also lapped Thruxton in 57.06 Seconds.

    The Williams announcement is expected today at 14:00.
    
    Senna-Hill is what everyone expect. But you never know ....

    Re. the second McPug driver.
    
    It appears that Blundell is also well placed. He is - for some reason -
    out of favour at Ligier, he used to be Mclaren's test driver, and he
    won Le Mans in a Peugeot. This all seems to add up nicely.
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    
    Hill officially confirmed at Williams. Frank W made suitable noises
    about Hill being "outstanding" in '93. Took him a long time to say
    it...
    
    Maakinen confirmed as number 1 in Mclaren. I haven't seen any news on
    no.2.
    
    
    Colin

    After McLaren's test with the Lambo' engine, it would seem that
    with a more aggressive development programme it could be excellent. One
    example of their slow development would be that they have developed 
    "air valves" but have not run them this year at all.
     
    In the right car it could produce a real dark horse.
    
    Gabriel
    

    Since McLaren has gone with the pug engine, what engine is Benneton
    going to use. It makes since that if the lambo engine is so strong 
    Benneton will make a play for its use. I would also expect that a
    french driver be named for the second spot at McLaren.
    
    Steven
    

    This quote from Ron Dennis has got to be one of the best of the year.
    
    RD:"....Late on Friday night Ayrton rang me to tell me of his plans
    (Williams) and when I reciprocated, telling him of our agreement with
    Peugeot, there was a long silence. Perhaps he will have time to reflect
    on this later."
    
    Gabriel

    The McLaren/Peugeot will use Shell fuel and probably TAG electronics.
    THe second drive will be announced in December and the third drive will
    be announced in Janruary.
    
    According to MN this week Larrouse were discussing engine installation
    at the Peugeot factory early last week!
    
    Chrysler are now expected to increase support for Larrouse.
    
    Gabriel

    The South African GP and the Donington GP have been axed, and replaced
    with Argentina and Japan (Aida).
    
    Gabriel
     

>>>                        <<< Note 2099.94 by MACNAS::GGARRETT >>>
>>>                                 -< Quote of the year >-
    
    Indeed, I imagine that young Ayrton feels a bit miffed. He was quoted
    by L'Equipe as saying that he never thought that Peugeot and Mclaren
    would come to an agreement.
    
    It's a shame about the Donnington race. Which circuit will be used for
    the Argentine GP?
    
    Edward
    
    

    Saw a Frank Williams quote in AutoSport -- perhaps someone can confirm
    -- along these lines:
    
       I expect Damon to be able to run with Ayrton, and sometimes
       beat him... next season.
    
    
    Seems as if Ayrton has had blinkers on with regard to the Peugeot news
    silencing him. Or maybe it was the thought of Hakinnen (the man who
    out-qualified him last time out in a similar car) being pitched against
    his supposedly un-beatable Williams-Renault in the potentially
    race-winning McLaren Peugeot?
    
    
    Terry B
                                                            

     <<< Note 2099.98 by LEMAN::CHEVAUX "Patrick Chevaux @GEO, DTN 821-4150" >>>
                          -< Senna will return, if necessary >-
>>>  Barnard isn't there anymore
    
    But he hasn't been there for years. And that hasn't stopped them
    winning numerous titles.

    Re:  .94
    
    Everyone knows contracts are not worth the paper they're written on. 
    It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Ayrton now changes his mind and
    goes back to McPug if he thinks that will be a better ride for him.
    
    Just my $.02 worth,
    
    	Barb
    

    Not a McLaren man, myself, but they are never too far off the pace.
    even when they have a car that is not the best in the field, they still
    manage to win races (Senna earlier this season and Senna v Mansell
    in 1991).
    
    Terry

    Am I to understand that the McLaren /Peugeot combination is expected to
    challenge for the championship in it's first year.  I know the McLaren
    is a great team with very good people but i doubt very much that Senna
    would even consider dropping Williams and going back to McLaren until
    the new combination has proven itself.  If I had a chance in the best
    car/engine combination I would not drop it to go and play with an
    unproven combination.
    
    regards,
    JP

I doubt that Senna would return to McLaren just yet. On the other hand, McLaren 
has had great success in the past even with a new engine. Remember 1984 when they 
ran the McLaren/TAG with relatively little testing? I would suggest that they will 
not challenge for the championship, but they will have an ok car.

The easy pick is Senna and Hill in the Williams - Senna as champ. Then he'll 
retire.

Ferrari will win some races in 1994. Challenge for the championship? No. Not till 
'95. They'll finish 3rd next year behind Willaims and Benetton.

Paul

    Saw a piece on CEEFAX over the weekend telling us that a certain Alain
    Prost was denying rumours that he had been approached by McLaren to
    drive next year...

    A rumour that was immediately denied as ludicrous by the man himself.
    
    Edward

    Pedro Lamy has been confirmed at Lotus for next year alongside Johnny
    Herbert.
    
    Edward.

    You may care to take this next snit bit with a pinch of salt.
    
    In the Mail on Sunday, an alleged interview with Herbert quotes Herbert
    as saying that he is the man for the other Mclaren seat, as he proved
    in the Lotus days, that he was quicker than Hakkinnen.
    
    S.

    He's signed for Lotus in 1994.
    
    So much for the Mail
    
    Paul

>>>    You may care to take this next snit bit with a pinch of salt.
    
    I think that anything in The Mail on Sunday, sporting or otherwise,
    deserves to be taken with a pinch of salt...
    
    After Sunday's race, Prost stated that Ron Dennis approached him on the
    day following his announcement to retire. He didn't actually offer him
    a drive, but he wanted to make sure that Prost's decision was
    irrevocable. Prost in a Mclaren-Peugeot would have been nice...
    
    Edward.

    ....
    	Any news on replacements for the Williams pit crew next year ? ;^)
    
    G.

Maybe some of AJ Foyts guys...:-)

Dave

    It seems that Wendlinger and Frentzen have been confirmed at
    Sauber-Mercedes for 1994. Hardly an inspiring line-up, IMHO. Frentzen
    was the third member of the terrible trio that raced the Mercedes in
    the sports car championship, the other two being Schumacher and
    Wendlinger.
    
    Chrysler has declined to supply the V12 Lambo engine to Bennetton,
    despite insistent efforts by Walkinshaw and Briatore. Indeed, it seems
    that Chrysler is so disappointed at losing the deal with Mclaren that
    they are thinking of selling off the entire Lambo outfit, including
    Lamborghini Engineering. Apparently one of the potential buyers is an
    obscure Indonesian chap with loads of dosh.
    
    Edward.

    
    According to today's Guardian Barclay have withdrawn sponsorship from
    Jordan for the '94 season.
    
    That'll teach Barrichello and Irvine to go scoring points! 8^)
    
    Nigel
    

    Have just got a call from my other half, it seems that while at work
    and listening to the radio, he has heard this:  the CBC reported that a       
    race - F1 - is to be awarded to Hull, Quebec, Canada.  This seems
    pretty far fetched as there is a Canadian GP in Montreal, Quebec
    already, just 2 hours away from Hull.  Can anybody put the facts
    straight on this report?  
    
    Lesley
    

Maybe it's a non-championship event, but even that seems unlikely.  They haven't
held a non-championship race since the late 70's in England, right?

Is there a permanent road course near Hull or would it be a temporary street
circuit?

Strange...

Dave

    I just called the CBC and it seems the mayor of Hull has secured a
    Formula 2 race for Hull, the reporter wasn't to sure about details.  I
    presume he meant Formula 2000 which is also the Atlantic series.  It
    will be a temporary street circuit that goes by the Ottawa river across
    from Parliment Hill and a couple of our new museums.  It should be a
    very scenic race.  For some odd reason he thought Formula 1 and Formula
    2 were the same thing ??????PS the race will be held in June.
    regards,
    JP

Found this on rec.autos.sport and had to post it here:

Article 41633 of rec.autos.sport:
From: sakaria@vipunen.hut.fi (Sakari Aaltonen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1 Silly Season: These Just In
Date: 27 Oct 1993 18:25:10 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology

BIRD-BRAINED FINN GETS SHOVE
JJ Lehto, the idiotic blocker, has been banned from F1. This is a total
ban, like he can't drive for Eddie Jordan even. If he shows up at a race, 
he will be spanked by Benetton mechanics. "I don't care", the tall, blond 
Finn told reporters with his usual moronic cheer.


ALL-DUTCH TEAM ANNOUNCED
Idyllic Leyden, known for its jars, is a hotbed of activity as the new 
Dutch F1 team prepares for the '94 season. Jos Verstappen will drive; 
the engine, a V9, is being built by Volvo(NL). Innovatively, the car 
has no brakes. Instead, reverse gear is used. The Dutch have a tradition 
of seafaring, where this kind of behaviour is the norm.


PROST GOING BALD
The reason for Alain Prost's departure from F1 was that the heavy helmet 
was making him lose his hair, say sources close to the debonair Frenchman.


AMERICAN ACE RETURNS
Michael Andretti will replace Damon Hill at Williams. This is the result 
of a complex deal masterminded by Frank Williams in close cooperation 
with Andretti's beautiful, astute wife. Hill is looking at several F3 
offers.


MCLAREN CLINCHES ENGINE DEAL
The famous Czech firm Skoda will enter F1 next year, supplying engines 
for the McLaren team. Ron Dennis:"I'm extremely happy with the way things 
have  turned out". Mika Hakkinen:"I'm outta here". (He was joking, of 
course.) 


SENNA STEPS DOWN
Impressed by Kiwi Paul Radisich's performances in a Ford Mondeo, 
Ayrton Senna has decided to leave car racing. "Subconsciously, I've been 
just waiting for someone faster than myself to come along. Well, now 
someone has...", the former World Champion muses in an open letter to 
the prestigious Norwegian Parliament. Senna says he has no firm plans 
for the future, but, then, they all say that, don't they?

    
    	Heh heh.
    
    	Great stuff, McLaren SKoda
    	A V9 engine!!

    Even more clarification
    It is F2 from England, they are still trying for Formula Atlantic but
    that race is not yet set.  They had a short chat with a British
    gentleman and claimed it was one step down from F1?  Anybody want to
    expand on F2.
    JP

    So this is the series where Alesi, Senna, Herbert and Hakkinen all came
    from.  This could be quite exciting then.  BTW it will be a rough
    figure eight layout.  Supposedly the only Figure 8 in the series.
    JP

I hope they manage to put a bridge in the middle of that.....:-)

Dave

    
    No. 
    
    Our F2 series is very poorly supported, although the racing can
    sometimes be good. Alesi never raced in the UK as far as I know and 
    Senna and Hakkinen went from British F3 to F1 (Herbert did a few races
    in the European F3000 championship).
    
    Mark

    re: 127
    
    Dave, those were my exact sentiments, otherwise they'd wind up with a
    very expensive demolition derby.  Funny how us COMers still think
    somewhat alike.
    
    Take care,
    
    	Barb
    

    Actually no bridge but they are planning a stoplight and quebec laws
    prohibit a right hand turn on a red.
    
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I couldn't resist.
    JP

    Pacific Racing, the successful F3 and F3000 team led by Keith Wiggins
    have introduced their new F1 car : the PR01 powered by Ilmor. Bertrand
    Gachot has been testing the car at Silverstone.
    
    The PR01 chassis has a complex history. It is based but not totally
    identical to the defunct Reynard chassis. The Reynard F1 engineer has
    joined Pacific. The car looks very much like the current Benetton with
    similar front wing and lateral air scoops.
    
    Bertrand Gachot is hoping to be one of their 1994 drivers.

    Benetton and Ford have co-signed a press release about their 1994
    collaboration. This might indicate that Benetton have failed at getting
    the Renault engine or is it another diplomatic gimmick played by Flavio
    Briatore ?

    Team Tyrrell has announced one driver: Ukyo Katayama.
    
    Katayama has strong links with the Japanese industry. This explains the
    above announcement. Now, this year's extremely poor results of the 
    Yamaha engines (even with the Judd cooperation) may lead to Yamaha
    giving up.

    Flavio ( I wanna be the new Bernie Ecclestone) Braitore has supposedly
    said in Adelaide that his favoured choice for Schumacher's partner in
    '94 is JJ Lehto! Somewhat surprising me thinks.
    
    Also - Derek Warwick quoted in Autosport as having "two exciting F1
    opportunities and one in Indy" for next year. Given his close links
    with Peugeot and McLaren's need for an experienced driver......?
    
    Also - Chrysler rumoured to be pulling the Lambo V12 out next year.
    
    Paul

There was some comments made during the BBC's coverage this weekend that
suggested Warwick might be around next year.

Dave.

    In talking about the driver lineups for next year, the ESPN announcer
    said that the FIA rules state that each team must announce their
    drivers by next week - about one week afterthe final event. What is the
    purpose of this rule? It seems out of place. In a time when many
    drivers (and teams) negotiate sponsorship up to the last minute, it's
    hard to see the value of such a rule.
    
    The ESPN team also speculated on drivers for '94, with a bit of
    attention going to the empty McLaren seat. It is the #1 seat, isn't it?
    Well, I guess it COULD be. It's hard to imagine Mika as the #1. He's
    good but Mclaren has a 10-year history of having a very experienced
    race winner in the #1 seat. There was some talk about Patrese taking
    this place. Hmmm? Could be, perhaps as a 1-year interim player. The
    McLarens certainly looked improved in the last two races, so whoever
    comes on board should get a competitive ride. I guess McLaren could
    bring up a youngster and use '94 as a development year with the new
    Pug.
    
    Paul
    

    Ron Dennis approached Senna as soon as he stepped out of his car on
    Sunday and said, "Don't you want to change you mind about next year?"
    Senna grinned and said no.
    
    Ron Dennis then immediately went up to Alain Prost, who had just got
    out of his car, and asked "Don't you want to change you mind about next
    year?". Prost grinned and said no.
    
    All this makes me think that he is indeed looking for a #1 driver.
    Maybe Peugeot will chosse one for him...?
     
    Edward.

    
    Warwick? Peugeot world champion already...
    
    Patrese actually makes a lot of sense. He IS a proven race winner and
    is very well respected as a test driver - could be just the person to
    hone the Peugeot to race winning performance whilst Mikka keeps them in 
    the headlines with dramatic, but car breaking efforts?
    
    Me... Well I'm available Ron and VERY cheap :^)
    
    Mark 

>    Me... Well I'm available Ron and VERY cheap :^)
    
    Yes, I've heard that about you too !

Patrase is mean't to be going to touring cars next year , otherwise there 
aren't many experienced race winners left in F1. If 
Mansell hadn't already signed for Newman-Haas then I'd think
he'd be the obvious (if expensive) choice.

Dave.

What difference does a signature make, these days? Anybody can be bought.
When there was all that talk about Mansell coming to F1 via Benetton during
the season, Haas didn't dismiss it out of hand, just said it would
cost someone a lot of money to buy the contract out.

With regard to McLaren and Mika not being an obvious #1 -- and of course Dennis
would love to have Senna or Prost -- do not forget that at the start of
the season when it didn't look as if Ayrton would race, McLaren had
the untried-in-F1 Michael Andretti and the upstart Hakinnen as their drivers.

Its interesting that -- according to BBC comentary -- Warwick wants to stay in
F1. A few weeks ago, he saw his future in Indy (quotes in Autosport and on
the ITV Indycar programme). So, maybe he has got something worth considering for
1994. That means it has to be a car capable of getting him on the podium...

Terry B

    Patrese seems like a very odd choice, and I doubt very much that we'll
    see him in a Mclaren next year, unless he's signed up as the mysterious
    third man.
    
    I don't think that Dennis likes Mansell at all. He never has. But there
    again, there does seem to be a dearth of experienced drivers capable of
    winning races at the moment.
    
    Edward.

    It's really a bit odd to see McLaren without one of the best drivers
    leading the team. I don't doubt Mika's talent. He may well win races
    next season for Uncle Ron. But I doubt that he will be able to lead a
    season long challenge to Senna and Willaims. And that's the level of
    effort expected from a team leader at McLaren. And that is why Ron
    tried to dissuade both Senna and Prost from their decisions for '94.
    And I doubt he would have Mansell. So it looks like he will have to
    have a bit of a transition year, maybe what Mika needs to become a
    leader. The only other driver that may fit into the team leader mold is
    Schumaker, and it does not appear that he is avaialable. Odd to see Ron
    Dennis left out this way.
    
    Paul
    

    Keep in mind that McLaren will not be in a position to win races in
    1994. The new engine (I mean NEW) means the team will have to live with
    all sorts of things (engine breakage, over consumption, lack of power,
    ...) before it is competitive again.
    
    No top driver is willing to engage for 1994. They probably have options
    on the 1995 seat, just in case.

    On the Peugeot F1 V10 topic ....
    
    Philippe Alliot and other Peugeot WSC drivers are testing BITS of the
    new F1 engine inside a WSC Peugeot engine casing inside a Peugeot 905.
    
    Complicated ? Probably a very effective stress test for new parts such
    as: pistons, rods, valves, pneumatic valve springs, oil pumps, sump ...

>>>     Keep in mind that McLaren will not be in a position to win races in
>>>     1994.
    
    I'm not sure I agree with that. Mclaren is, IMHO, simply the best team
    in F1, and has been for years. They've just beaten Ferrari's number of
    victories, and they've been round for half as long.
    
    Peugeot has won everything it ever entered. Maybe the competition is
    weaker in rallies and WSC than in F1, and maybe Todt has left, but they
    do have an enviable track record. Any driver who's interested in the
    medium- to long-term rather than in winning straight away would be well
    advised to sign up now.
    
    Edward.
     

    
        Starting this Friday, for seven weeks, on BB2, The Mclaren
    documentary.
    
        This is a documentary of Mclaren, filmed this year.
        Covers all the in and outs of the team.
    

    Nice quote in Autosport from Ron the Dennis following he Adelaide
    race...
    
      "I hope Ayrton enjoys his holiday at Williams. I trust
       that it won't be a successful one"
    
    ...or words to that effect.
    
    
    Terry B.

    The return of Brabham ?
    
    SIMTEK designer Nick Wirth has introduced his latest creation earlier
    this week. So far it was publicly known that SIMTEK was both:
    
    	- brilliant engineering
    	- lack of team and operational funds
    
    The latter may change since Sir Jack Brabham is providing financial
    backing (in exchange of SIMTEK providing a seat for Brabham Jr).
    
    More on this topic in a few weeks ....

RE: -.1

Shouldn't he stick to writing top-notch 3GL's?!

-Steve

    The guy who invented Pascal, Modula, ... and a number of software and
    hardware advances is Prof Niklaus Wirth.
    
    The Nick Wirth who appears on the press photo looks different and
    younger.
    
    I knew Niklaus Wirth in the 1974-77 timeframe. I did a little bit of
    compiler design myself and I taught Pascal for a while. 
    
    Long time ago ...

    For Pascal freaks:
    
    Did you learn Pascal by reading the famous book: 
    
    	"Pascal, by Niklaus Wirth and Kathleen Jensen"  ?
    
    In the affirmative, did you know that Kathleen Jensen, after she worked
    with Wirth and wrote the book, joined DEC Zurich and held a number of
    positions in several countries and organizations within DEC ?
    
    I don't think she has anything to do with F1, but you never know ...

    Any further rumors etc on a USGP?  This "Pacific Rim GP" seems a
    convenient catch-all for any locale fitting the Pacific Rim definition.
    Laguna Seca had discussed a GP with Bernie a few years back; his
    sanction fee (several million $) and an additional few mil for garages,
    expanded press facilities, helipads, drivers lounges etc etc were
    beyond the scope of a circuit run as a non-profit charity.
    Additionally, there were concerns of access, traffic etc, as Laguna
    Seca is in a resort area, with little available occupancy (despite
    hundreds of hotel/motels) during prime tourist season. Sure would love
    to see a GP there, however. Long Beach was a long time ago (and IMHO, a
    mickey-mouse venue)
    
    Pete (Ron-is that 2nd seat still open?)   

    An article in today's L'Equipe includes pictures of both the Simtek and
    the Pacific. The Simtek will be Ford powered and driven by David
    Brabham and An.Other. The Pacific will be Ilmor powered. Bertrand
    Gachot will probably drive one car, although even that is niot yet
    sure. There's no mention of another driver.
    
    Edward.

As much as I would like to see F1 return to the U.S., it doesn't look good. The 
description of the problems at Laguna Seca probably fit most of the U.S. road 
courses. Between the sanctioning fees and the costs to bring the track to FIA 
standards make the race a poor business decision for a track. What a shame, since 
Laguna has some wonderful features from a racer's stand point.

I agree that the old Long Beach course was somewhat Mickey Mouse, but no more so 
than other temporary street courses, with the possible exception of Adelaide. But 
it was clear that the organizers were not making money there. As soon as they 
swithced to Indy cars, the operation became profitable. Hmmmm? I wonder why Bernie 
fears Indy cars? Look at the other venues in F1 that are having financial 
problems. Hungary. South Africa. What others? Maybe Bernie's a little too greedy.

Paul

    Whatever happened to Watkins Glen? It always looked like a nice track,
    although a little narrow. Has it slipped behind the times safety-wise,
    or has it gone bankrupt?
    
    Edward.

    Re a few back....
    
    I read that Ron Dennis was seen taking Schumacher outside one of the
    post Adeleide parties and chatting to him for 10 minutes while Joe
    Ramirez guarded the door.
    
    It also crossed my mind that McLaren could do worse than Johnnie
    Herbert, but I guess he's spoken for.

    re: -2
    
    Watkins Glen in upstate New York is still in business, mostly Sports
    Car Club of America racing, one weekend of NASCAR, and a couple of
    vintage things.  I was always under the impression that Watkins Glen
    had proved "unacceptable" to F1 because it was a sleepy small town with
    no night life and large hotels.  Which is still basically true. 
    Regarding compliance with F1 standards and if The Glen is is up to par,
    I don't know. Given the technological advancements (read "attitude
    re-adjustment and snobbery), I'd be surprised if The Glen measured up
    to snuff.
    
    IMHO<
    
    	barb
    

The Glen was dropped from F1 because there were not adequate accommodations for 
the teams, the press, etc. It is still pretty much a small town stuck out in the 
middle of the country. It and Road America in Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin, have the 
same problem. Both are interesting tracks but could not attract an F1 race because 
of the lack of facilities. Neither is up to the current FIA requirements for 
safety, garages, media, etc.

As a fan, I'd rather see a race at either track than any street course.

Paul

    Agreed, street-course-wise. Adelaide and Monaco are fine, others too
    Mousey. Not a proper venue. Most US tracks probably don't meet F1
    safety standards..can't see Road Atlanta's Turn 12 vs
    DeCrasheris...that'd be one way to get him retired...
    
    Pete  (Ron still isn't ret'g calls...maybe he's shopping with Sandy A?)

    Bits
    
    . Jos Verstappen, the dutchman who won the German F3 championship, has
      been invited to test drive the McLaren-Ford at Silverstone. Jos had
      been invited to test drive the Footwork at Estoril, he had managed
      pretty good lap times very quickly but his test was unfortunately
      terminated by him crashing the car badly into the guard rail. Jackie
      Oliver was very unhappy about this.
    
    . Scuderia Italia and Minardi should have merged some time ago. For
      some reason they have failed to do so and Mr Lucchini, the rich Italian
      owner of Scuderia Italia is reported to have second thoughts about F1.
      This leaves Minardi with little hopes for 1994.

Patrick -

You may well be right about Ferrari's prospects for '94.

I just read in RACER that soon after Jean Todt arrived, he and Niki Lauda bumped 
heads. Niki and Jean don't seem to get along and Niki threatened to quit as team 
consultant (for which, it is rumored, he receives some $3M/yr). Apparently, Luca 
Montezemola talked him out of quitting and has encouraged him to report directly 
to Luca any problems he might have. Sounds like the venerable Ferrari politics are 
still alive and well. I don't believe they will return to the top until that sort 
of thing is ended. Say what you will about McLaren or Williams, but there is none 
of that junk at either of those teams.

Along with the Ferrari piece was the article announcing the McLaren Peugeot 
alliance. The interesting slant was the reaction of the Chrysler Lambo people who 
feel they were used by Ron Dennis. They really felt that the apparent success of 
their tests in the McLaren chassis had pretty much given them the deal. Ron says 
there was never any deal. Dennis must beleive that the Pug is a better choice but 
he isn't saying why.

Paul

    I don't believe the politics at Ferrari will ever go away.  They have
    won before with the exact same political turmoil and will win again.
    I think the drivers just have to learn to exist within it.  I think
    Jean has learned to do this.
    regards,
    JP

    .167 The interesting slant was the reaction of the Chrysler Lambo people who 
    .167 feel they were used by Ron Dennis. They really felt that the apparent success of 
    
    The Lamborghini Engineering people were very disappointed (and very
    surprised). Now these guys have been in the business for a while so I'm
    sure they had no illusions or dreams.
    
    As I read more and more about this, it appears that Ron Dennis has made 
    his mind about Peugeot at the VERY last minute. Of course this is not
    what McLaren and Peugeot keep telling the world (we started discussions
    at Magny-Cours, etc ...). 
    
    I'm pretty sure that Dennis had almost signed the Lambo Engineering
    deal. Peugeot won on a last minute offer ($$$) which explains Audetto's
    reaction.
    
    PS: Audetto has been Ferrari's team manager as some point (Arnoux days)

    I read last week that Damon Hill had a big shunt while testing the
    Williams at Estoril. No personal injury sustained, but the chassis was
    written off.

    GP of Argentina in Buenos Aires will not happen on March 20th, 1994.
    Following a political battle between several clans about which circuit
    to use (either the renovated old circuit, or a temporary street circuit
    or a permanent downtown circuit) the Argentina president, Mr Carlos
    Menem, has decided for a new permanent circuit to be built in the
    Palermo Park in Buenos Aires.
    
    Next problem: the circuit won't be ready for the proposed date.
    
    Argentina has declined the Mar 20th date and has offered to use the gap
    between Monza and Suzuka (end Sept-mid Oct) instead.  

    Some frenchmen are (have been) invited to test drive F1s.
    
    Ligier have invited Olivier Panis (1993 F3000 champion) and Emmanuel
    Collard to test the 1993 Ligier at Magny-Cours. At least one seat
    should be available with Mark Blundell leaving and Martin Brundle
    staying as No1 driver. 1993 test driver Eric Bernard might get the 2nd
    seat. Eric Bernard has driven the Benetton at Estoril.
    
    McLaren (under Peugeot's pressure ?) are running a couple of cars at
    Silverstone this week for Philippe Alliot and Yannick Dalmas. Ron
    Dennis has said he will announce his drivers setup before Xmas (2 race
    drivers, 1 test driver). Mika Hakkinen is most probably one of them.
    Several people think that Rubens Barichello is another one. Mark
    Blundell and the 2 guys above are on the list for the 3rd seat.

    Still on the F1 testing topic:
    
    - McLaren have officially signed a contract with Mika Hakkinen for 3
      years. Alliot has tested the 1993 car and has been VERY impressed by
      the handling, smoothness, quality, etc ... Dalmas will drive this
      week (12-dec)
    
    - Williams at Le Castellet are running their annual "drive a F1"
      promotion week. Several journalists (John Watson, Jean-Pierre Jarier,
      ...) and some FW15 engineers (Bernard Dudot, Patrick Head, etc ...)
      have driven the FW15.
    
    - Jordan have allowed Chris Rea, Nick Faldo, etc ... to test drive a F1. 
      They are also testing some young blodd like Kelvin Burt (UK F3 champ)
      and Oliver Gavin. Eddie Jordan also publicly said that Barrichello's
      contract was NOT for sale (under 5M$ !)

    One more contract signed: Benetton and Schumacher have signed for 3
    years.
    
    Another potential (test) driver for McLaren: Michele Alboreto. Very
    talented all weather driver who wasted a year trying to get the
    Scuderia Italia Lola's somewhere near current F1 standards (mission
    impossible).

    Posted this in the 1993 season note as well, but --
    
    Does anyone know the outcome of the FISA meeting with Irvine and Senna. 
    Thought it was supposed to be held today.
    
    Thanks,
    
    	Barb
    

    According to CEEFAX...
    
    Senna has been banned for two races, but the sentence has been
    suspended for six months because of his positive attitude after the
    Irvine-bashing event.
    
    I assume this means he will miss two races in June or July, by which
    time he should/will have a commanding lead in the championship?
    
    I don't know, but two races are a lot to miss if the competition is
    close. I bet Williams aren't too happy with this situation.
    
    Terry B.
                                                     

    No. I stand corrected.
    
    Law was always my strong point !
    
    See 1830:1793 for correct outcome of the Senna-Irvine hearing.
    
    Terry B.

    10 F1 teams are present this week at Montmelo, Barcelona for official 
    FIA testing.
    
    Benetton have Lehto and Alboreto, Schumacher being unavailable for a
    few weeks (minor operation).
    
    Williams are using Hill and Coulthard, McLaren counting on Hakkinen and
    Dalmas, Tyrrell with Tarquini, ...  Ron Dennis has agreed to relieve
    Senna of all obligations.
    
    Sauber and Lotus will run with their 1994 driver teams: Wendlinger &
    Frentzen, Herbert & Lamy. Footwork will run their 1993 setup: Warwick
    and Suzuki.              

    FIA have just released the following:
    
    New updated TENTATIVE calendar

27 Mar		Brazil		Sao Paulo
17 Apr		Pacific Area	Aido/Japan
01 May		San Marino	Imola
15 May		Monaco		MonteCarlo
29 May		Spain		Montmelo/Barcelona
12 Jun		Canada		Montreal
03 Jul		France		Magny-Cours
10 Jul		UK		Silverstone
31 Jul		Germany		Hockenheim
14 Aug		Hungary		Buda Pest
28 Aug		Belgium		Spa Francorchamps
11 Sep		Italy		Monza
25 Sep		Portugal	Estoril
16 Oct		Argentina	Buenos Aires
06 Nov		Japan		Suzuka
13 Nov		Australia	Adelaide	

    I take it that the issues surrounding the venue in Agentina have been
    resolved. Does anyone know what they've done there?
    
    What about the new Japaenese venue for the early-season Pacific race?
    Any information on it?
    
    Paul
    

    Team Larrousse has secured financial support from french Tourtel
    alcohol free breweries. Amount not disclosed but the Larrousse team is
    optimistic about 1994.
    
    At the same time Larrousse is discussing with Olivier Beretta, the
    young F3000 driver from Monaco. Beretta is the guy who had setup a
    F3000 team with Nelson Piquet, 2 years ago. Beretta could bring a few
    M$ to Larrousse (in exchange of a Larrousse F1 seat ....)
    
    The only question mark at this point is about the Lambo Engineering
    V12 engine. Larrousse is waiting for a position from LE who have
    recently been acquired by Indonesian consortium Megatech/SEDTCO
    belonging mostly to Mr Tommy Suharto, son of Indonesia President.  

    Patrick - I guess Ferrari must be running the 4-litre Monza version
    of the engine, fuelled by the special MONZA brew AGIP!
    
    Was Senna running - I guess not?

    ref .185
    
    Kart _not_ Go-Kart. A Go-Kart is something driven at fairgrouds or in
    indoor circuits. A Kart, as driven by Senna and Prost, is a fixed
    drive, 100cc two stroke with thermal tyres (slicks) capable of 90-100
    mph with the correct gearing (but you'd have to run pretty fast to
    start it).
    
    IMHO
    
    8^)

    Thanks for the correction. BTW the karts used for the Paris event have
    a clutch (centrifugal, I think).

	Although much changes in F1 it seems that the rule "John Barnard
	joins team and two seasons later it's a winning car" formula
	is still working.

	-John

    Patrick -
    
    Thanks for the informative update on the testing sessions. That's the
    sort of info we don't readily get here in the US.
    
    I'd be curious about the configurations folks were running. Especially
    Ferrari. In tests like these, who's fastest isn't always as telling as
    who is fast in relationship to their known numbers. Thus the Ferrari
    numbers are interesting. Do you know if they were running in '94 spec
    with all the fancy traction and suspension control turned off? To be
    that much faster than their '93 qualifying tells us something.
    
    BTW, you can check engine displacement without opening the engine up.
    When I was with the SCCA we had a nifty little tool one of the
    scruetineers devised for checking Formula Ford engine displacement. You
    removed a spark plug, turned the engine to the bottom of the stroke,
    and inserted the tool which, with springs, expanded to the walls of the
    cylinder. Slick. You immediately knew the cylinder bore and stroke and
    if it was legal. Granted, they are a few more variables in F1, but not
    so many the couldn't tell.
    
    Frankly, I'd love to see Ferrari challenge again. I'd especially like
    to see Alesi break through with a win.
    
    Paul
    

According to my newspaper, yesterday performances have been:

Berger (Ferrari)	1' 18" 38
Hill (Williams)		1' 18" 43
Letho (Benetton)	(not available)
Frenzen (Sauber)	1' 18" 71

Benetton announced that during the next season Japon Tobacco will sponsor the 
team.

Personally I do not trust these winter records. Usually Ferrari seems to be 
very fast during tests, then it performs poorly during races.

Anyway 3 secs faster it's a lot.
Moreover Alesi said during interviews that they are not looking for records, 
but they are trying to broke as many parts as possible, to avoid similar 
problems during the season.

It's great to know that Ferrari has found a bit of speed, but as was pointed out, 
these winter test times are really deceptive. You never really know WHAT the team 
is testing at any point in time. So even if they appear slower, it may be just 
fine because the test wasn't for all out sped. If Ferrari was testing endurance, 
it sounds like they had a succesful test.

The other thing that always mixes things up is the change over in specifications. 
Again, Ferrari may have found new speed, but if it was a '93 spec, what does that 
mean?

Wouldn't you like to see Alesi challenge Senna for the championship in '94?

Paul

    Update on team status:
    
    Team		Engine	Driver 1	Driver 2	Test
    
    Williams		Renault	Senna		Hill		Coulthard?
    Tyrrell		Yamaha	????		Katayama
    Benetton		Ford	Schumacher	Lehto/Alboreto	??
    McLaren		Peugeot	Hakkinen	??		??
    Footwork		Ford	Fittipaldi?	??
    Lotus		Mugen	Herbert		Lamy		Zanardi
    Minardi		Ford	??		??		??
    Larrousse		Lambo?	??		??		??
    Ligier		Renault	Brundle?	??		??
    Ferrari		Ferrari	Berger		Alesi		??
    Jordan		Hart	Barichello?	Irvine?		??
    Sauber		Merc	Wendlinger	Frentzen	??
    Simtek		Ford	Brabham		??		??
    Pacific		Ilmor	Gachot		??		??
    
    
    Drivers "on the loose":
    
    Blundell - McLaren?
    de Cesaris - Tourers?
    Patrese - Tourers?
    de Ferran - Tyrrell/Simtek/Pacific?
    Badoer - ??
    Warwick - McLaren?
    Panis - Ligier?
    Comas - ??
    Bernard - Ligier?
    Alliot - McLaren?
    Dalmas - McLaren?
    Burt - Tyrrell/Simtek?
    Suzuki - ??
    Verstappen - ??
    Martini - ??
    Gavin - Test contract?
    
    Plus a few others!
    
    Paul

    Cyril de Rouvre, Ligier's new owner and boss is in jail. Guy Ligier is
    back into the chairman's seat for the interim period. The sale of team
    Ligier to Benetton might be announced soon. 

Patrick


Please elaborate, this is news to me. What happened?

Mike

Patrick,

You mentioned a Cart event in Paris back in note .185.  Who is in this?  What 
are they doing (race, demonstration, etc.)?  This sounds interesting.  
Inquiring minds want to know more.

Jeff

	Not strictly 94 but it said on the news today that the Australian
	GP will move to Melbourne as of 95 (or was it 96)

	-John

    
    Rat-hole alert --
    
    
    Surprised no-one else jumped on the definition of a Kart mentioned
    earlier.
    
    The one's I raced would have been banned on the previous definition, as
    their engines were 250% oversize, & they had 5 gears. That was 20 years
    ago, before they went twin/6 speed etc, & cost more than my expenses
    allowances could cover ... hence end of racing for me. Shame, 'cos
    people like Nige were racing 200cc on the same grids. (Wouldn't have
    changed the future of the universe if I kept going -- Nige would
    still be quick, & I'd be in the middle somewhere....)
    
    Moral : Many different classes of Kart raceable with International
            licence, depending on the host country. Some even had twin
            100cc classes ...
    
    
    Colin

    Week-end story on CEEFAX has Prost still being sort -- seriously -- as 
    a team memner for McLaren in 1994.
    
    According to a quote, Ron Dennis confirmed that the currently retired
    reigning World Champion is on the shopping list.
    
    There has been no reported comment from Prost.
    
    Of course, it could be that Prost may be hired as a consultant or
    even, aham, as a test driver!
    
    Just a thought.
    
    Terry B.
                                                     

    Forgot to add:
    
    This event was organized by Philippe Streiff in order to raise funds
    for his and a few other charity organizations (paraplegics). The whole
    thing (24000 seats) was sold out as early as October. Streiff decided
    to open 5000 seats for people to watch the Friday practice sessions at
    reduced entry cost.

Saw this on Eurosport over the weekend. Fabulous. It's the first time I've seen
Senna having fun with a capital F. Even though he was dead last due to problems
with the machinery of one of his team mates, he went out and had a ball, dicing
furiously with Johnny Herbert who was the leader at the time.

I'm not sure I should say this, but Japan did cross my mind and brought a smile
to my face, especially when Senna left his braking far too late trying to get
past and overshot down the inside, JH saw him coming and wisely let him have his
moment. I suspect that he also let him through at the end to avoid ending up in
the wall.

Great stuff. Real racing.

    > According to a quote, Ron Dennis confirmed that the currently retired
    > reigning World Champion is on the shopping list.
    
    > There has been no reported comment from Prost.
    
      Sunday Times had a paragraph about Prost rejecting the offer.

    Just a bit of a confirmation: all 10 F1 teams present last week at
    Montmelo/Barcelona, were running fixed suspension versions of their
    1993 cars, except Sauber who had one 1994 cars. Given that the Ferrari
    suspension was causing a lot of trouble during the racing season I can
    easily believe that they achieved their lap times (3secs faster than
    for Spanish GP) with normal springs.
    
    McLaren have had a hard time with their engines: 6 Fords broke during
    the week. Probably trying something new and secret (confirmed by
    Yannick Dalmas who said he could not make any declaration on his F1
    test drive).

Patrick -

Any word on when McLaren will have a Pug to run? And will Ford keep supplying them 
engines for testing while McLaren waits for the new engine?

Paul

    Ref a few back about the ELF Kart event. Just shows you the interest in
    Karting on the Continent (I do not include gearbox "Karting" which is
    only really popular in the UK and other cold Euro climes) if they can
    get 24,000 people along to an event like this - and be sold out by
    October!
    
    In the UK they don't even know how to spell the word! There is very
    strong 100cc Kart racing in the UK which breeds World Class drivers
    (Fullerton and Mike Wilson going back a bit) - however they were never
    recognised for "promotion" to supported F3/F-Ford drives. They were
    passed over by peers with Latin surnames because Team Managers didn't
    believe young Brits could hack it (so I've been told).
    
    However, things are changing. Watch out for driver like Oliver Gavin.
    However I do regret that we have let so many superb young drivers leave
    the sport because they couldn't get the commercial backing/recognition
    they deserved. IMHO Karting is _the_ training ground for F1. If we
    don't accept that we'll be pinning our hopes on stock car drivers like
    Brundle etc - now come on!
    

	Prost, Senna & Mansell all started in Karts.

	Will Prost race again?. I think that he'd rather go for team
	management but if there's nothing doing in that line...

	-John

There was an interview in RACER and another in ROAD & TRACK with Prost and in both 
he indicated that it was his desire to spend more time with his family that was 
the reason behind his leaving F1 driving. In fact, he said that his son (who is 
about 11, I think) said that he was frightened by the speed and apparent danger of 
racing.

The temptation of McLaren/Pug notwithstanding,it seems to me that Alain may be at 
that point in his career that he REALLY should move on to something else. He still 
has skills that are finer than all but a very few, but I don't think the fire is 
burning in his belly. Senna still seems to have it. And Mansell. As much as I like 
Prost and admire his accomplishments, I think I'd rather see him quit.

This really puts a different light on F1. 2 of the top 3 drivers have gone, which 
leaves Senna and Schmacher and Hill. Who else will step up? There are some fine 
youngsters out there (and a couple of "oldsters" like Alesi) but will they have 
the cars and teams to let them shine? I think Williams and Senna will win a bunch 
of races and the Championship, but I'm pulling for Ferrari and Benetton to come 
thru as well.

BTW, anyone surprised by Pug's rapid development? Their conservative answer on 
expectations is normal. Even without a top driver, Mika just might win a race or 
two in '94.

Paul

    If I were Ron Dennis / Mansour Ojjeh .... (ambitious assumption) ... 
    I would ask Alain Prost to be:
    
    	- team manager
    	- test driver		or
    	- team consultant
    
    ... just a thought ...

    Just read that the Stewart's have announced that Paul has decided to
    forget F1 as a driver. He'll concentrate on the team management task.

Seen in Ceefax:

Senior Honda engineer from F1 engine development program (Goto ?) Has just
joined Ferrari. Interesting developments, perhaps we will see Alesi win
something this year after all...

Terry

    On the subject of stealing engineers ...
    
    Peugeot (or is it McLaren ?) have hired the ELF engineer who had been 
    working on the miraculous fuels that Williams have used for the last 3
    years. Apparently ELF tried everything to keep the guy but Peugeot had
    made the super offer ...
    
    Maybe this is a serious indication that a Peugeot engined car may win
    races one day ...

    Patrick,
    
    The Goto story has been very widely reported so it seems true. Maybe
    there is less scope for him to work at McLaren now Peugoet is around.
    
    Paul

    What I meant is: Goto has been working for McLaren for a while (more
    than 2 years if memory works well), he's not a senior Honda engineer
    anymore and BTW he was Honda's F1 program manager before he left.
    
    I agree that he might not have much to do at McLaren those days. There 
    were rumours that he might join Lotus now that they have official works
    Honda support. Like there were talks last year about him joining
    Footwork, but that has collapsed with the loss of interest in F1 from
    the Footwork mgmt team.

    US Today reported yeterday that Goto had joined Ferrari to run their
    engine program.  Lombardi and Massai certainly have not distinguished
    themselves . . .  I don't suppose this will do anything but help
    Ferrari get a bit more tech data from Honda.
    
    Also read recently that Renault is working on a V12 (!?)

    I've got a confirmation about Osamu Goto being contracted to work on
    engine development at Ferrari. Claudio Lombardi is still the boss. I
    think Goto will serve as a liaison with the Honda lab (also under
    consulting contract). 

    The Ford HB powered Simtek F1 has appeared in finished form and has 
    been checked out (don't know where) by Brabham. No info about possible
    financial support at this point.
    
    The SEDTCO/MEGATECH deal with CHRYSLER for the acquisition of the whole
    LAMBORGHINI CARS + ENGINEERING is blocked by some paperwork/legal
    issues. Daniele Audetto has therefore warned his 'customers' Larrousse
    and Minardi that he could take any commitment on supplying V12 engines
    
    Larrousse have made an announcement that they will go with the Ford HB
    but I'm not sure about this. Maybe just a political announcement to
    make things happen with the CHRYSLER --> MEGATECH deal ....
    
    On Dec 16th McLaren have disclosed a project to build a land speed
    record breaking car called the Maverick. The car will be powered by a
    Tornado jet engine and will rely on a fully active suspension. The goal
    is to reach 1370kph, weel above the sound barrier ... If everything
    goes well the car should be ready in 3 years.

>On Dec 16th McLaren have disclosed a project to build a land speed
>record breaking car called the Maverick. 

Have they identified anyone stupid enough to drive it?

Dave.

    Also announced this week....
    
    Oliver Beretta and Erik Comas will be the Larrousse drivers this year
    
    Oliver Gavin will be the test driver for Pacific
    
    Autosport's predictions for driver line ups:
    
    Benetton	Lehto
    Footwork	Fittipaldi 
    Jordan	Irvine or Br/Blundle
    Minardi	Martini
    Pacific	Naspetti
    
    Paul

    News this am puts Mark Blundell in the frame for Tyrrell or possibly
    Jordan. If he goes to Uncle Ken's Woodyard, Sugar Ray Irvine is tipped
    for the Jordan seat. Meanwhile, Brundle looks pretty secure at Ligier
    alongside Panis or another young French driver who's name escapes me.
    
    Paul

    Blundell has been confirmed (CEEFAX) as one of Tyrrells drivers
    for 1994.
    
    Terry B

Last night on CEEFAX announced the new Jordan which Barrichello said was very
impressive. It also stated that Brundle was in the frame for the second seat??

Mmmm, I don't think so.

Mike

    Brundle rumour repeated at length in The Graunaid. Seems to be down to
    Brundle to say yeah or nay. If its nay, Eddie Irvine looks likely.
    
    Paul

    Report re Peugeot in yesterday's Independent - Jabouille was quoted as
    saying he'd be satisfied with a podium finish this year, wins in the
    next, and champions the next. I suspect that Ron has his sights set
    higher this year. Jab confirmed he'd like his friend Prost and will
    talk to him himself if Prost doesn't make his mind up (he mentioned
    that Prost is still talking to Ligier). He also implied that they were
    interested in Herbert as a sort of "best of the rest" driver and
    confirmed that McLaren were going to have a 3 driver team (presumably
    including a full-time test driver).
    
    First test of the engine in the back of a McLaren is imminent.	

    The new colors of Williams were on show yesterday. Not as striking as
    in the Rothmans colors. But no doubt they will be doing well again this
    year.
    
    Eric.

    Benetton have officially presented their 1994 team. New B194 with new
    colour scheme (different tobacco advertising) and slightly revised
    aerodynamics, new Ford Cosworth engine labeled Zetec-R, and a full
    driver combo with:
    
    - M. Schumacher and JJ Lehto	race drivers
    - J. Verstapen			test driver
    
    Ford engines: Benetton have exclusive rights (now that McLaren have
    switched to Peugeot power). All other teams using a Ford V8 will get
    the HB Series 7 or 8 depending on power vs torque needs.
    
    The new Zetec for Benetton is designed to provide more peak power at
    higher revs. The bore has been increased to 100mm allowing shorter
    stroke. Of course, all this public info, and could be just that.

    Prost rumourored to be on the point of going testing the McLaren.
    Autosport says he would never race it because he would want to beat
    Senna and the engine isn't yet producing 700bhp but loves testing.
    Methinks Dennis would pay quite a lot for Prost to iron out the bugs.
    
    Mike

    RE:.-1 Ceefax had a report last night that Frank Williams has said that
    Prost cannot drive for another team because he has him under contract
    for another year. He's got a point hasn't he.

    Brendan.

    Little snippet of film last night on BBCtv's Sportsnight programme from
    -- I think -- Estoril, showing Senna and Hill parading the new
    Williams.
    
    Also short interview with Senna, who said he was happy to be 'back' at
    Williams but that so much -- in fact everything -- was new this year;
    team, car, regulations, etc., that he felt it was going to be a
    challenge, etc.
    
    Terry B.

    Eddie Irvine has signed a two year contract with Jordan.
    
    John

    According to a French newspaper of very dubious credentials, Prost's
    contract with Williams applies to compeition only. Therefore, there is
    nothing to prevent him from testing the Macpug as much as he likes.
    
    Ligier boss de Rouvre is still in jail pending charges. The team has
    already started testing at Estoril, but I'm not sure who's in charge.
    
    Edward

    Oh, and I forgot to mention...
    
    Eric Bernard has been confirmed at Ligier next season, if Team Ligier
    survives.
    Paul Belmondo has been confirmed alongside Gachot at Pacific. Now
    that's what I call a driver line-up...
    
    Edward

    Can anyone list (or point my to a note) the '94 formula 1 schedule.
    
    Thanks
    
    Royston

    <<< Note 2099.244 by LEMAN::CHEVAUX "Patrick Chevaux @GEO, DTN 821-4150" >>>
                   -< everything OK at Ligier, keep boss in jail ! >-
    
>>>    can do a good job when management .... does not interfere every day ...
    
    Sounds familiar...

    JJ Lehto wrecked a new Benetton at Silverstone on Friday. He put it in
    the barriers down at Stowe. Unfortunately he's damaged neck vertebrae
    and will be having it operated on. He may be doubtful for the first
    couple of races.

	Senna reported fastest (surprise) during testing at Estoril, though I
	don't know who was there (as if it mattered).

	Brendan.

    At these testing sessions I take it that the public is not allowed?

I read that Senna crashed the Williams an Estoril, locked up the tires and 
spun 360 before backing into a barrier.  No damage to him.

Hmmm, getting used to no ABS?

Dave

ps - just read that, how could he spin 360 and then *back* into a barrier??

Patrick, I guess you missed the question.

A 360 degree spin would leave a driver facing the original direction!

So, did he spin 180 or 540 degrees?  I couldn't have been 360 if he BACKED into
a barrier.
				Malcolm.

	Ceefax last night carried a "Prost looks more likely to return"
	article after he has said that he hasn't made up his mind, but
	either way it will be a difficult decision. Clearly this represents
	a shift from his earlier "I've retired and will stay that way"
	position.

	Brendan.

Maybe one should not recount dreams in notes but what the hell, last night I
dreamt about the first race of the new season, Prost won in a McLaren!

Dave.

I can just see the rantings of Mr Ecclestone if Prost returns. Whilst I think
Prost is a very good driver I do not believe that chopping and changing around
retirement can do the sport any good at all. That includes Mansell. It smacks of
pure greed. The reality is that we need to grow on the younger drivers to create
something more than "F1 is Senna v Prost". If they don't do that then F1 will
die of natural causes. For Ron Dennis to employ Prost as a test driver I can
REALLY understand, especially with such a totally unknown car, but if the car is
not expected to win for another year and Hakkinen is so highly rated, why pay
huge sums for someone to race who's enthusiasm must be suspect?

All pure hypothesising for as usual Joe Pulic knows squat diddley about what is
REALLY going on!

Mike

Musings from Autosport.

Williams says Prost cannot race for another year because he has a contract but
it doesn't stop him testing.
Renault would be extremely unhappy if Prost goes to McLaren but there is nothing
they can do because they don't have a contract, Frank has....

JJ Lehto was lucky not to be paralysed as he did break his neck. Suggestions are
that it will be tight for him to make the 1st race.
Verstappen will replace if he isn't fit.

Irvine definitely has the 2nd Jordan seat and promptly went fast enough at
Estoril in a time which would have qualified him 5th for the GP.

Irvine and Senna appear to have patched up their differences, Senna approached
Irvine to find out who this "Frentzen" bloke was....

Interlagos could be rebuilt to it's original 5 mile length. They are seeking FIA
approval before work begins. Anyone remember what the maximum and minimum
circuit lengths are??

Mike

    Re -.1
    
    I read that if Prost does race for someone else, then a large sum of
    dosh has to go to Williams (a few M$s). If that happens then Senna will
    get some of it, so he has mixed feelings about whether or not he wants
    to see Alain back.

    Saw pictures of Senna and the modified Williams FW15 at Estoril. 
    
    Canon, Camel, Sega and Labatt's have disappeared, leaving the space to
    ROTHMANS all over the place (8 BIG stickers in total), with just one
    Renault and one Elf sticker on each side.
    
    Frank Williams has been reported saying 'this is our biggest contract
    ever' (ROTHMANS).
    
    Minor incident when FIA/FOCA published the list of 1994 F1 WC entries.
    Senna appeared with No 0. Frank Williams asked for a correction and the
    updated list now has Senna No 2 (Hill keeps No 0). 14 teams have
    registered with 28 cars, 5 seats still unnamed.
    
    Minardi and Scuderia Italia have finally come to an agreement: the new
    resulting team will be called Minardi Scudieria Italia (!). Drivers
    have not been named yet.
    
    Martin Brundle is Ligier's best bet. Ligier have a contract with their
    financial supports asking for ONE driver with a score in the previous
    championship. As Eric Bernard did not race last year they have to keep
    Martin (they have mentionned Patrese as a potential). But Martin
    Brundle is waiting for McLaren (Dennis is waiting for a final word from
    Prost). 

    It just won't happen (he who refuses to place a bet on anything to do
    with the ridiculous goings on in F1 :-)) ) Senna has said in the past
    that whilst Ron Dennis is prepared to pay good money, he won't pay that
    kind of money. I have a feeling that Philip Morris won't either.
    
    Talking of which, Ferrari want to revert to totally red cars (HURRAY)
    but Philip Morris want more white. Anyone like to be who will win that
    one....
    
    Mike

    I've read somewhere that Dennis has secured 18M$ for Prost to drive a
    McLaren in 1994. I don't think this is the real stuff Prost is looking
    for ...

Seen in the list of GB team members for the Winter Olympics:-

Bobsleigh
		J Herbert

I think we should be told!

Dave ;-)

According to a report on Eurosport last night Prost will be driving
the second (first?) McLaren.


/Paul.

Re .266

...and you believe things you see on Eurosport!!! You're worse than I am for
believing in fairy stories ;-)

Mike

    Re -.1
    
    So in the unlikely event that the Prost return did happen, would the
    numbers have to be reallocated to give McLaren #1 and #2?

    I would have thought so. 
    
    Paul

    New MP4/9 introduced last Friday by McLaren. Spokesman did the intro
    speech. Ron Dennis was present together with Jean-Pierre Jabouille and
    Jean-Pierre Boudy (the Peugeot engineer ex renault who designs the V10)
    Mika Hakkinen was at the wheel of the car.
    
    Several pieces of info: the new car looks like a new generation F1 car
    and carries no single piece from last year's MP4/8. Most of the inter
    season design efforts have centered aroun optimizing aerodynamics. The
    new car has an electronic clutch managed from the wheel (like the
    gearbox). It only has one BIG (wide) brake pedal and the throttle
    pedal. Loads of electronics to assist the drivers and the team in
    setting up the car's springs, dampers, anti-roll devices, tyre
    pressure, .... thanks to TAG Electronics.
    
    L'Equipe have interviewed Ron Dennis, about a reported disappointment
    as to the Peugeot engine performance progress. Ron Dennis confirmed
    that Peugeot need time and that he is confident they'll achieve great
    results ... Is this true or bluff ? Answer when Prost signs or not.
    
    5 cars will be built. 1 car will be used by Mika Hakkinen at Estoril
    and Silverstone. Should Prost help with initial debug ... it won't
    happen before Mid March when all cars are built.
    
    Now, we have:	- new Benetton-Ford
    			- new McLaren-Peugeot
    
    Waiting for:	- new Williams-Renault
    			- new Ferrari

    Brazilians in pole position at Estoril.
    
    After Senna's 1'12"49 in the Williams-Renault 2 weeks ago, Rubens
    Barrichello has scored exactly the same lap time last week with the new
    Jordan-Hart. More interesting: this is 3 (THREE) seconds faster than
    Barrichello's qualification time for the last Portuguese GP. 

Eddie Irvine reported in this weeks Autosport that the new Jordan is vastly
improved over last years car, in particular they have fixed some of the
stability problems it was experiencing. 

As usual however the winter tests mean little. All it proves is that the Jordan
works well at Estoril in 10 degrees on an empty track with no oil dropped by a
rentadrive gorrilla.........

Nice story though, I hope it does have meaning, we need more teams to be
competative.

Patrick

I got round to reading Autosport last night and it said some interesting things.

a)the Williams appearance at Estoril was primarily a PR exercise to show off the
new sponsorship. There was a slight hiccup when Senna appeared in RACING colours
rather than ROTHMANS. The explanation was a breakdown in communication but given
Sennas enthusiasm for PR......

b)they said that whilst it was PR, Senna was more interested in going out and
finding what a Williams was like and promptly started doing more than the 5 or 6
laps they had originally envisaged. Senna also said that he wasn't right on the
limit because he was more interested in feeling his way around the team and the
way it operates, especially as this is not the car he will race being the
interim chassis you described.

c)Senna also said that he had got on with all of his team mates except one!

d)on Hill he said that Hill was listening more at the moment because he didn't
want to colour Sennas opinion of the new setup. Makes a lot of sense, they could
learn a lot from this approach. We have to wait and see how the relationship
progresses.

Mike

Senna gave the reason for attending as described, learning the team rather than
the car. He also said that he never saw any point in testing at McLaren simply
because they never rolled out the new car until late Feb at the earliest and saw
no point at all in trolling around in a last years hack car, i.e. that was the
job of the test driver. Put like that I can see his point.

Yes Williams did end up doing some work, but a lot more than they had intended,
again, as you said, it was the old car with all the new bits tied on, so it was
more of a reliability/destruction test than anything else.

On the subject of heat, I wonder why nobody tries to test south of the equator
during the winter, Kyalami? Too far to get the spares I suppose, yet Roger
Penske seems to manage it on substantially less money......

    re:274
    Patrick -
    
    Your guess about Williams last year not making progress has merit. In
    AUTOCOURSE this year, both Prost and Hill said that the '93 Williams
    was essentially the same car as the '92. It would appear that Williams
    felt that they were far enough ahead that they did not need to work
    hard on futher development. And when it began to appear that many of
    the drivers' aids would be banned... I'm sure they saw it coming. It
    was apparent that during the course of the season, McLaren and Benneton
    closed the performance gap.
    
    As for Senna testing, it probably is that he feels he needs to
    establish himself as part of the Williams team. He's so talented as a
    driver that he can adapt to a new car rather quickly. This year, for
    the first time in awhile, he has a lot of new people he must work with
    and build relationships with. Many writers have pointed out that the
    people at McLaren held Senna in very high regard. He was very well
    liked. He may even feel some extra pressure since Hill is well
    established at Williams.
    
    It's interesting watching Brundle these days. Ligier seems to want him.
    He is probably the best available right now. And he can produce
    results. But with a shot at McLaren... Dennis is no fool. He'll work on
    Prost and will get him if he can, but will settle on Brundle if the
    Prof really has retired. I'm really torn on this. I think Prost looked
    tired, no weary, last year. The season started badly with the flap over
    Williams entry being late and his "trial" with the FIA. And it never
    got better. I would not doubt that Dennis has a pot of money for Prost,
    but is that enough motivation? He already has a pot of money. What
    would cause him to come back? And I'd like to see Brundle at McLaren. I
    hope it works out. One thing you can't forget: never underestimate Ron
    Dennis.
    
    Paul
    

    re: -1
    
    Prost's contract with Williams is probably an issue, but I believe
    a bigger issue is Prost's motivation. Dennis can get money - lots of
    it. And I beleive that he can overcome the Williams contract issues,
    even if he must resort to a buy out. Net is: does Alain really want to
    return to F1?
    
    Paul

    Minardi Scuderia Italia have just announced their driver setup. As one
    would have expected they've picked up 2 Italian drivers (the only two
    this year !), one from each half of the team: Michele Alboreto (from the
    defunct Scuderia Italia) and Pier Luigi Martini (from Minardi).
    
    Bad news from Pacific Racing: not confirmed, but Bertrand Gachot who
    has invested into Keith Wiggins's Pacific is officially looking for a
    seat (he's offered to drive for Footwork). At the same time reporters
    have found that only ONE car had been built and there are no signs of
    building more ... Finally Ilmor's Mario Illien has declared that they
    were not planning to deliver engines to Pacific, waiting for advance
    payment ...
    
    Back to the new Jordan-Hart tests at Estoril. The fantastic 1'12"49 and
    1'12"90 times achived by both Barrichello and Irvine may not mean much
    compared to Senna's times with the modified FW15. But compared to
    1993's Jordan-Hart qualification time at Estoril, this represents a
    full 3 SECONDS IMPROVEMENT ! 

    The new MP4/9 should be testing this week at different places. I'm
    pretty sure the car should appear on the Silverstone track ... with
    Mika Hakkinen at the wheel.
    
    Frenchman Laurent Aiello has joined Peugeot Sport. According to
    Jean-Pierre Jabouille he could be doing some testing work for McLaren
    this year. 

    I'd be very suprised if Mikka is in a McLaren so soon considering the
    seriousness of the operation to repair a broken neck. Autosport says
    that he has only just flown out to Monaco (in Keke's jet of course) to
    go and see Herr Dungel. Mikka says he will be fit by the first race.
    
    On Pacific, a not unexpected happening as Keith Wiggins has also stated
    that the continuation of the project depended on proper sponsorship, he
    had no intention of competing just to prop up the grid as have so many
    others of late. I hope he does get the money, this is a very
    professional team and should run on a par with Eddie Jordan.
    
    Mike

    RE: .283
    
    I thought it was JJ Lehto who sustained vertebral damage in a crash,
    not Mika.
    
    --PSW

Come on Mike, get your Finns straight!  :-)

Dave

    Mike, sure you're not talking about JJ Lehto with a broken  neck?  Or
    are there, in fact, two f1 drivers sustaining the same injuries during
    practice?
    
    	Barb
    

    
    OK OK OK I'M HAVING A BAD DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    
    ...One of Wednesdays papers mentioned the McPug's first run at
    Silverstone on Tuesday, Mikka spun off at Abbey at the end of his first
    lap in wet conditions, the car was slightly damaged but he was okay. The
    majority of on-lookers however were more interested in the non-appearance
    of Prost.....
    
    G.

    Apparently Hill trashed a Williams yesterday, but he's OK unlike the
    car.

    Some details: while testing at Montmelo (Barcelona, Spain) Hill crashed
    at a speed estimated close to 300kph, failing to slow down the modified
    FW15 at the end of the long pit straight. Reports mention Hill walked
    out of the car unhurt.
    
    Apparently Hill experienced what can be described as total electrical
    shutdown: engine cut, no gearbox, no clutch and - strange - little or
    no brakes ! (question: are they using electrically powered brakes ?). 

    Last wednesday, Frank Williams has indicated that he had no argument
    with Alain Prost test driving the McLaren. The next day, Ron Dennis
    announced that Prost WILL test drive the new MP4/9 in 2 weeks.
    
    There are still a lot of speculations on the subject. Brundle is still
    waiting for McLaren's decision.
    
    All TV spots showing Alain Prost (Elf) don't appear anymore on French
    TV. Lots of people over here tend to think that the deal is already
    signed. 

    There was a few minute slot on Eurosport last night about the new cars
    and the Prost/McLaren drive. 

    I fell that the fact that Prost is going to test the car indicates that
    his retirement is not something he is totally comitted too.
    
    I won't be too surprised if he ends up in car number one next season.
    
    Elton John was always retiring...
    
    
    Terry B.

    re Hill trashing a Williams. This kind of accident has happened before,
    not necessarily to a Williams. Are the brakes servo assisted, if so,
    and I seem to remember Warwick saying something to this effect when he
    wrecked a Footwork, that braking is not all that clever. Something
    about trying to compress a brick.

   
  >>>  Elton John was always retiring...
    

    Last week, at Silverstone, McLaren had a poor start (3 laps and a
    spin).
    
    But the next day they could run (as soon as the ice on the track
    melted) without any problem for 200km with Mika Hakkinen at the wheel.
    The Peugeot guys were tuning the engine. 3 laps - telemetry - look at
    parameters, adjust things, etc ... JP Boudy was relatively happy with
    the early findings. They watched for things like lateral accelerations
    for rotating bits and fluids. JPB said that, of course, everything had
    been simulated and tested back in the factory but nothing replaces the
    real experience ... 
    
    The McL-Peugeot team should be at Estoril this week.

    Re Prost
    
    I read today that he was at McLaren last week for a seat-fitting.

    
    The Times reported that Prosts contract with Williams is in fact owned 
    by Renault. This means Renault will decide wether Prost races a 
    Peugeot!
    
    According to the article, Prost announced his retirement after he 
    believed his offer to buy the Ligier team had been accepted.
    
    Patrick Head said that there was nothing in the contract to stop Prost 
    testing for any team.
    
    Richard.

    What is the date of the first F1 race this year ?
    
    Royston

    Argentina saga.
    
    After the President Menem's decision of running the 1994 GP on a new
    circuit, Bernie Ecclestone just announced that the decision has been
    reverted. So, as of now, the GP will take place on the totally rebuilt
    Autodromo.
    
    Minor detail: the GP date is 16-Oct. The FIA is expecting to visit the
    finished circuit 3 months before (16-Jul). We are talking of extensive
    work on the existing site with a totally new portion, a complete re-
    surfacing, building new grandstands, pits and hospitality areas.
    
    Some people think that the Argentina GP will only run in 1995.  

    Estoril F1 tests
    
    Mika Hakkinen driving the McLaren-Peugeot MP4/9 has achieved a fastest
    lap in the 1'13" bracket, 1.2" slower than fastest lap established by
    Frentzen in the new Sauber and .6" slower than Senna in the modified
    FW15.

    Does anyone actually believe anything written in the Times???
    Renault have specifically stated that they have no contract with Prost,
    it was always with Williams. They would be upset, yes, but could do
    nothing about it. Frank has stated several times that he owns the
    contract and imntimated that it could be bought but that it would cost,
    a lot, megga, Senna prices......

    Good news from PACIFIC: Paul Belmondo has brought fresh money from IGOL
    Lubricants. Keith Wiggins has told the press that all negative rumours
    were unfounded. Apparently Ilmor ARE supplying engines. One car is
    currently available while a second chassis is being built.
    
    Bertrand Gachot is officially chasing sponsor money, but some people
    think he's trying to get the 2nd FOOTWORK seat (Aguri Suzuki and Luca
    Badoer are trying too ...)
    
                          -----------------------
    
    SIMTEK have signed a contract with german SMS racing organization
    (who work for Audi in production car series). Audi have denied any F1
    link with Simtek. David Brabham runs the only chassis available while
    Jean-Marc Gounon is looking for more sponsor money.  
    

    The Prost-Williams-McLaren-Ligier-Peugeot-Renault saga ....
    
    There is a very high probability that the whole thing is just a smoke
    screen used by Prost (master tactician) in his discussions around
    taking over Ligier and getting the full support from Renault.
    
    Sounds very much like : 'either you supply what I need or I switch to
    competition'.

    Speculation in Autosport is that Prost will drive the McPug in early
    March but would not want to race until it is competitive. Drivers
    mentioned as fill in's are Patrese and Alliot. Brundle seems most
    likely if the seat is a permanent one, but he is thought to be unlikely
    to want to wait for Prost to arrive.
    
    Also mentioned is the possibility of an Audi badged Cosworth for
    Benetton next year if Ford pull out, along the lines of the
    Ilmor/Mercedes deal.
    
    Schumacher is putting in very hot laps at Barcelona
    
    Frentzen & Wendlinger putting in fastest laps at Estoril
    
    New Footwork announced Wednesday
    
    As a point of un-published info, the UK Timing outfit, MST, have won a
    contract to do F1. MST have been doing F3, Tourers, Macau etc for a
    while and have always done shadow timing for the British GP. They will
    have a permanent team of British timekeepers (lucky s*ds - I know most
    of them and this mean that theres more work for us mortals to do timing
    club meetings!) and I think the contract is initially for three races.
    MST are sponsored by Unisys. Now is only the BBC could get a contract
    to televise all the races..........
    
    Paul

Autosport ran an interview this week with Prost. He says that the Ligier deal is
a complete non starter due to lack of serious interest in France (!?) and lack
of engines. He also said that he has other projects in the pipeline but didn't
elaborate.

On Williams/Prost/Renault, Williams are saying that it's all bull about Prost
being difficult to work with, their only frustration was that Prost only ever
went as fast as was necessary, they were really annoyed with him at one of the
later races when he sat behind Mickey the Shoe doing just enough to secure the
championship and then at another event when going for pole had the car literally
dancing and they were really pleased.

Mike

>    MST are sponsored by Unisys. Now is only the BBC could get a contract
>    to televise all the races..........

	That would be great since they do a great job. I guess Eurosport
	can fill in the holes until them.

	Eric.

    In a surprise move FOOTWORK Enterprises of Japan have decided to retire
    from F1. The team is currently for sale. Jackie Oliver, team manager,
    does not seem to be too worried: Lee Cooper are interested in taking
    over. 
    
    FOOTWORK management has changed since their original entry into F1. The
    new management had put a number of goals to the F1 involvement which
    were not met last year, even with the help of the revised Mugen-Honda
    and the (late) buyout of McLaren's electronic rear suspension. The team
    lost the Honda engine which went to Lotus, which indicated that the
    parent Footwork were not ready to invest tons of yens anymore. 
    
    The real surprise is this late announcement, a little over one month to
    the 1st GP. Christian Fittipaldi remains the only registered driver.
    The name of the team will change from Footwork to ... Arrows ? Lee
    Cooper ? a.n. other ?

    On TF1 yesterday: a group of F1 drivers and French Airforce pilots were 
    invited to share experience at Le Castellet (F1 track and airfield).
    
    F1 drivers included: Prost, Alsi, Alliot, Jabbouille, Comas, Bernard,
    ... They were invited to a 30min flight in the rear seats of 6 Mirage 
    2000 2-seater trainers.
    
    Then the F1 drivers took the airforce pilots to the F1 track in a
    series of high performance cars: McLaren F1 GT, Venturi 500LM, Ferrari
    Testarossa, ...
    
    Comments were interesting to hear: the F1 drivers were impressed by the
    acceleration power of the fighters even at high altitude/speed.
    Airforce pilots were impressed by the lateral g's (they only get
    vertical positive g's in the jets). Prost who was slightly ill (cold)
    asked for a light treatment.

    
    	With only 1 month to go - when is the list of teams,drivers,numbers
    etc published?
    	I always thought that these things had to be declared by the teams
    sooner than this.
    
    Anyone help?
    
    Tony B.

    See .267
    
    Paul

RE: .315

Apparently the Footwork team is reverting to its original team name:  
Arrows.

--PSW

    From 3615 Sport Auto:
    
    Russian (ex-USSR) consortium that builds rockets, Energuia (sp?), is
    entering the F1 field. Their 1st project will be a 3.5 litre engine. If
    everything goes well they might also build a chassis ....

    Apparently Renault have made a lucrative offer to Prost for some sort
    of permanent public relations/promotional job. I suspect it's very much
    a case of: "If you don't go and work for Peugeot, we'll give all these
    dollars".
    He will be testing the MacPug at Estoril on March 8.
    Most teams are testing at Barcelona this week at the invitation of
    Goodyear.
    The new Ferrari has beaten the lap record at Fiorano.
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    Today is D-day for Williams as they will introduce their new FW16.
    Rumours indicate that this new car will have a number of breakthroughs
    in aerodynamics as Adrian Newey has been given freedom to explore new
    areas. Car will start testing in private at Silverstone.
    
    Barcelona: Mika Hakkinen and Karl Wendlinger have set identical fastest
    laps Monday in the 1'19"-1'20" range. 2 seconds slower than Schumacher
    in the Benetton. Ligier, Jordan achieved similar (slightly slower)
    times.
    
    Peugeot have announced they will have a new 4 valve per cylinder head
    fitted to their Peugeot F1 A4 engine instead of the current 5 valve per
    cyl by March-April. Sounds like they lack torque presently.
    
    Pacific have started testing. The PR01 was rolled out and driven mostly
    by Paul Belmondo at Snetterton. Gachot could only achieve 10 laps before 
    running into Ilmor engine misfire. Testing will carry on with Belmondo 
    and Oliver Gavin.

    The Williams FW16 did a few laps round a wet Silverstone yesterday,
    with Senna at the wheel. The car was immediately wrapped up and sent to
    Paul Ricard for testing next week. Maybe the Valbonniens amongst you
    could go and have a peek? Apparently, the car has a boomerang in lieu
    of a rear suspension. I've seen the photos, and it does look odd.
    
    Meanwhile, down in Barcelona, Eric Bernard has set the fastest time in
    testing so far in last year's Ligier! Next in line are Barichello,
    Wendlinger, Hakkinen, and Berger.
    
    The Tyrrell 022 was unveiled in London yesterday.
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    When will they be at Paul Ricard? I've planned to take Monday and
    Tueday off next week...

    Frank Williams and a number of top teams are accusing FIA et al. to
    have twisted the rules so as to provide unfair advantages to Ferrari.
    
    Background:
    
    - Ferrari V12 engine is low on power and torque + it needs a lot of
      fuel translating into more weight: with refuelling stops Ferrari will
      be allowed to start with less weight
    
    - Ferrari were unable to make the active suspension work: active
      suspensions are banned
    
    - Ferrari engines did not like traction control: traction control
      banned
    
    .... etc etc ...
    
    I wonder if all this is enough for Ferrari to win races this year  

    re: .330
    Great news for Tifosi!  The new Ferrari must be good.
    But let me get this straight: Ferrari has more clout with the FIA than 
    Renault and Peugeot and McLaren and Williams and Ford and Mercedes
    combined?!?!?  Wow!  The spirit of Enzo lives!
    What a pile of !&!^&!
    On the other points: We in the US may see F1 through frosted glass, but
    I seem to recall many references in Autosport, Motorsport, etc to the
    Ferrari engine closing the gap. And does anyone believe that Barnard
    and his all-stars would be unable to master the tech referred to???

    
>>    Great news for Tifosi!  The new Ferrari must be good.
    
    If they were good, the rules would not need to be adapted to suit their
    abilities.
    
>>    And does anyone believe that Barnard
>>    and his all-stars would be unable to master the tech referred to???
    
    Well I for one think that there is more to an F1 team than some skilled
    technical people. Lets face it, Ferrari have had an enormous budget,
    and skilled people for years, and still manage to be leading also-ran.
    In Jean Alesi they have a particularly talented driver, they have
    simply failed to give him the tools he needs over the past few years.
    Look at the deal they struck with Bergher.... cost them a fortune, and
    what results has he shown?
    
    No the ferrari team is an over-rated money-pit. For too long now its
    been trading on little more than its reputation.
    
    Terry
                                    

I notice in this week's autosport that Ferrari had a less than happy time in
pre-season testing at Barcelona. Once more they had engine problems (blew a
couple) and problems with the aerodynamic balance of the new car. Perhaps
they will pull things togeather, butalready they are behind the state of 
readyness of other teams, and are not able to run with the McLaren which is
running a completely new engine package!!!

Another season of mediocrity from Ferrari on the way?

Terry

    They blew 5 engines, all of which were last years models and they have
    identified the cause, also the back of the car has massive grip, the
    front none. I bet Villeneuve would have had fun having to keep the tail
    out all the time just to make it go round bends!
    As you said they are already behind in development, they need lots of
    miles to cure the problems.
    Ferrari won't be down forever.....

    Mikka Hakkinen finally managed to break a Peugeot engine in Barcelona
    last week. Apparently the engine had already covered far more kms than
    is usual for an F1 engine prior to a revision.
    Jabouille said he was "surprised" that the engine had lasted so long.
    
    Senna is due to test the FW16 at Imola next week.
    
    Salut,
    Edward

In the latest issue of RACER, there were a couple of interesting items. In one, 
the discussion was about the rule change allowing refueling. It was said that most  
of the teams were against the idea and said so to Bernie Eclestone. Benie said, 
"Fine. You can change the rule if you wish. Just vote on it." Only Ferrari voted 
to keep refueling, and since they needed a unanimous vote the rule stands. Ferrari 
believes that the will start the race on a more even weight footing with the less 
thirsty cars and may make as many as three pit stops of fuel and tires.

Of course the question of pit safety was raised. Keke Roseburg is clearly not in 
favor of stops and believes they are just inviting an accident. While other 
observers point to the fact that gasoline (OK, something LIKE gasoline, but NOT 
methenol as in Indy) is used, the pits are mostly narrow, and often there are 
stands and tents right up next to the pits making fire a real fear, but Keke just 
doesn't like the idea of everyone screaming into a very crowded pit. He believes a 
car will sometime get out of control and...

So, I don't buy in that Ferrari had the rules changed to suit them. I just can't 
believe they weild that much influence. It would be nice to see a really 
competitive season. Patrick Head was quoted in the same issue as saying he 
believes that this will be the most competitive season in quite sometime. Whether 
Ferrari is in the hunt or not, it sure would be nice if Head is right.

Paul

Did I see something on CEEFAX the other day that said Martin Brundle was going
to or is testing the MP4/9?

Terry B.

    FW16 testing at Paul Ricard
    
    Well, I was there for about 1hour last Thursday. Senna seemed to do
    pretty well with his car without pulling too hard. He was lapping in
    1'03"-1'04". Record lap in 1'03"16. The new RS6 makes a different noise
    (very much like the endurance Peugeot ...)
    
    I only saw Damon Hill for a brief moment (leaving the Renault hangar in
    the Mistral straight, stopping just before Virage du Pont with a dead
    engine).
    
    Here is what I got offline: 
    
    Monday:  Senna did the initial debugging of the new FW16 with laps around 
    1'07". He apparently found a severe problem with the new revolutionary 
    rear suspension.
    
    Tuesday: modified reinforced rear wishbones were being flown from
    Didcot. No driving
    
    Wednesday: new wishbones were tested by Senna while Hill was getting
    used with his car. Senna managed 1'03"30. Hill in the 1'06" bracket.
    
    Thursday: everything OK (except Hill's engine).
    
    Senna declared that he was not interested in making record laps because
    1 Paul Ricard is not a GP circuit anymore and 2 they have no reference
    data from other teams.

    New Ferrari 412T1
    
    Mysterious front suspension: some closeup photos in this month Sport
    Auto showing the lack of Unibals between the front shell and the
    wishbones. 
    
    Seems that Barnard has decided to get rid of most of the front
    suspension ... back to kart racing !
    
    New Williams FW16
    
    Mysterious rear suspension: top wishbones are colocated with the drive
    shafts, they have an inverted wing shape and are made of carbon fibre.
    No photos allowed. These are the parts that posed a severe problem last
    week at Le Castellet. 
    
    Le Castellet has pros and cons: pros = good weather conditions and
    known constant track, cons = smooth track not reflecting real (bad)
    situations like Estoril
    
    New Pacific PR01
    
    Designed by Ross Brawn amd built by Reynard, the PR01 is a perfect
    carbon copy of the Benetton.
    
    Simtek
    
    Jean-Marc Gounon, No 2 driver, is taking no chances. He has signed for
    the complete round of French Sports Cars championship, just in case ...

    Ref Simtek -
    
    Roland Ratzenberger confirmed for first 5 races in place of Gounon - he
    had cash, Gounon didn't.
    
    Arrows have $2.5m sponsorship deal with Lee Cooper, but still no No 2
    driver
    
    Paul

    From 3615 Sport Auto
    
    Prost did only 10 laps with the MP4/9 and left the circuit. Refused to
    speak to the press.
    
    Note: if this is confirmed, this is a good indication that the deal
    with Renault (and Ligier or other ?) is in good shape.

    BBC quoted him as saying he was thrilled to be back in a car again, but
    would possibly not make any statement for a month (well after Brazil).
    His lap times were also stated to be pretty unimpressive, this was also
    stated in the papers.
    
    I really hope that Ron does not go for Prost, he's had his moments in
    the sun and its time to look for someone new to challenge Senna, be it
    Hill, Hakkinen, Schumacher or whoever. He's to Martin Brundle finally
    getting a car worthy of his talent.
    
    Paul

    Suspensions: from what I have seen at Le Castellet (Williams FW16), on
    TV (Ferrari and McLaren) and on magazines, it looks like the 1994 F1
    cars will have the active suspension replaced by ... no suspension.
    This is probably OK on very flat and smooth circuits (to keep constant
    ride height) but will be a terrible problem on bumpy surfaces. 

    Hi,
    
    Can anybody tell me what date the Monaco GP will be held on this
    year.
    
    Regards
    
    Eric

    A few bits from MNews, gleaned at the Station....
    
    Morbidelli is confirmed at Footwork
    
    Ratzenberger confirmed at Simtel for first 5 races
    
    McLaren had a complete embargo on pictures of Brundle in the MP/9, but
    his time was within 1 sec of Mika after less than 20 laps.
    
    Complicated story about Flavio Briatore funding a buy out at Ligier,
    including (or maybe not) Prost. The scenario would then be that
    Benetton would get Renault power in 1995 and Ligier would get
    Audi(Cosworth).
    
    Ho hum!
    
    Paul

    Announced in Autosport this week.....
    
    
    Don't Miss It!
    
    PLAY FANTASY GRAND PRIX
    
    Here's your chance to be an F1 Team Manager. Make up your own Grand
    Prix Racing Team and see if you can do better than the experts
    
    in Autosport next week
    
    
    I feel like a new topic coming up somewhere?!?
    
    Paul

>    I feel like a new topic coming up somewhere?!?

Yes, let's start a new topic!

Dave

    re Prost,
    
    Hmmm, sounds like he's doing a Senna ;-) Even the words in Autosport
    seem like someone is playing games. 
    
    Briatore's comments about Ligier are interesting, he says that it was a
    little difficult continuing negotiations when one party was in jail. I
    think he may have a point!. He says they are continuing.
    
    Mike

    Imola
    
    Williams FW16s are doing pretty well. Yesterday Senna and Hill were
    lapping in 1'22"20-30 while the Ferraris and Saubers were - AT least -
    1"30 slower.
    
    Pity that Benetton and Michael Schumacher are not there ...

    FWIW !!!
    
    Peugeot CEO, Jacques Calvet, has declared at the opening of the Geneva
    Auto Show that he was confident that there will be a frenchman in the
    McLaren drivers this year.
    
    Note: he did not say whether this concerns the 2nd race driver or a
    test driver position, he did not say Alain Prost.
    
    On the Prost subject, Alain has spent a boring day Wednesday at
    Estoril. After completing 15 or so laps the engine refused to work.
    This was the 1st test run with the new 4 valve Peugeot. Further tests
    were to be conducted Thursday and Friday but I haven't heard about it.

    Imola tests
    
    Michael Schumacher has left Imola with fastest lap. The crazy week saw
    some beautiful performance from the Sauber and Ferrari boys until Senna
    decided to break Mansell's lap record. But Friday the fastest man was
    Scumacher with a record lap in 1'21"078 leaving Senna some .2 second
    slower. Test driver Verstappen confirmed the excellent performance of
    the new Benetton.
    
    TF1 showed some views of Imola confirming my previous remarks: the top
    cars have NO suspension. Drivers will suffer. 

    Eurosport  previewed the F1 1994 season last night - showed the new
    cars and interviewed some of the drivers. It is being repeated on
    Wednesday 16th at 12:00 noon GMT.(1 hour long)

    Any ideas on why the two Ferrari's are spaced so far apart.  Are they
    both testing the 412?
    
    Any guesses on podium finishers for the first race?
    regards,
    JP

    OK, I'll be the first to publicly make a fool of myself:
    
    1.  Senna
    2.  Schumacher
    3.  Barrichello
    
    Prominent DNFs: Alesi, Berger, Hill, the Lotuses.
    
    Underachievers of the year:  Lotus (again)
    Overachievers of the year:   Tyrell
    
    OK, let's hear from the rest of you.
    
    Don

    Don, I'd hate to see you all alone with predictions, so here's my
    tuppence worth:
    
    1. Senna  
    
    2. Wendlinger  
    
    3. Schumacher 
    
    Interesting your picks had 2 Brazilians in the top 3; home-crowd
    advantage, perhaps?  
    
    Pete          

    No surprise. Prost will go on with his retirement plans. McLaren will
    have to nominate a 2nd driver real quick. Apart from Brundle who has
    covered a few laps at Silverstone and some more laps at Estoril noone
    has been able to drive the 2nd and 3rd McLaren chassis.
    
    On the Prost side, his plans may vary between running a revamped Ligier
    team with official support from Renault and starting a new F1 team using
    bits and pieces of the F1 and Sports cars teams. Hugues de Chaunac,
    long time friend of Prost's and manager of ORECA is still interested in
    moving into F1 one day, after his teams's numerous successes in F3,
    F3000, sports cars, .... 

    I think that Prost has made the right decision. His main reason for not
    unretiring himself was that he did not feel 100% motivated. He said
    that the performance of the Mclaren Peugeot had no influence on his
    decision whatsoever. Take it or leave it...
    
    Alliot has also been testing the car at Estoril. He said that he would
    definitely be on the grid in Brazil, but he does not yet know in which
    car. Apparently he was faster that Brundle in testing. Peugeot are also
    rumoured to be applying some pressure to have a French driver in the
    second car.
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    I hope it's Brundle, he did excellently in both the Benetton and the
    Ligier, and his Benetton performances look even better considering who
    he was being measured aga. It would also help Ron get McPug thought of
    as a British team. I wait to be proved wrong of course but can't see
    Ron sucumbing to pressure on drivers, he's always stuck out for what he
    wanted.
    
    As for the podium in Brazil:
    
    Senna
    schumacher
    Hill
    
    Good runs for the Saubers and the Jordans - broken bits from the
    Ferrars. 
    
    By the way - I now know the GP timekeepers so any $$$ to influence
    results can be channelled :-)
    
    Paul

    
    
    Ist podium.
    
    	1)Senna,
    	2)Schumacher,
    	3)Alesi.
    
    	Ferrari to finish 3rd in constructors.
    
    	Andy.

    
    My prediction :-
    
    	1) Senna
    	2) Hakkinen
    	3) Schumacher
    
    
    ...Senna to win the Championship by a *BIG* margin....
    
    Graham

    Berger to pull off a Mansell and win for Ferrari first time out of the
    gate.  I believe he did this in 89 or 90.
    Senna and Schumacher to follow.
    regards,
    JP

I always love to read predictions. I believe that the previous noter is pretty 
close to what I think. I give Senna the best chance - but don't think it will be a 
runaway, either for the Driver's or Constructors Championships.

For the WDC - Senna, Hill, Alesi, Hakkinen

For Constructors - Williams-Renault, Benetton-Ford, Ferrari, McLaren-Peugeot

In Brazil - Senna, Hill, Hakkinen, Alesi

Paul

    Here's my bet:
    
    
    1. Hakkinen
    2. Alesi
    3. Senna

1 - Schumacher
2 - Hill
3 - Alesi

So if Prost isn't going to drive the other McPug, who is?  Any word from 
Ron Dennis yet?

--PSW

    No decision yet. There appear to be three drivers in contention.
    
    - Brundle
    - Herbert
    - Alliot
    
    Salut,
    Edward

Anyone of those three would be a good pick. I'd especially like to see Brundle 
there. He'd do a good job for McLaren, I think. Not that the others wouldn't, but 
I just like him.

Paul

    
    Re. Herbert
    
    	I'm sure I read that Lotus had stated that Johnny Herbert would not
    	be leaving them under ANY circumstances.
    
    Re. Brundle
    
    	I sincerely hope he gets the McPug seat although I think Peugeot
    	will force their hand and get Alliot in.
    
    Tony B.

    Yes, Lotus did say that a while ago, but Johnny has to get himself
    nearer the top somehow, and for him satying at Lotus is becoming a bit
    like the Alesi at Ferrari situation; surely THIS will be the year our
    'luck' changes.
    
    Terry B

    
    Re -1. "luck"
    
    	That's one thing that really annoys me.
    It seems that at the start of every season we hear Ferrari, and just
    lately, Lotus saying that "our luck must change this season"
    
    	Luck just doesn't have much to do with it. Sure you can be punted
    off the track by a less experienced driver (or Senna!!) and, yes, that
    IS bad luck, but how often does that happen compared to a problem with
    the car forcing a driver to retire.
    	If the car breaks then that is NOT bad luck, it is
    design/engineering/driver failure - it has nothing to do with luck.
    
    Tony B.

Well, reports on the Internet are that McLaren have officially announced 
Brundle as their second driver.  About time!

--PSW

That leaves just the second Ligier seat open right?  When will they announce 
that one?

Dave

Could someone in-the-know post the car/driver/chassis/motor lineups?
Some kind soul had done it a few years ago in the form

Car #   Driver            Team/Chassis        Engine      Tire
--------------------------------------------------------------------


Thank you in advance,

Jeff

    Methinks that Olivier Panis will be driving the second Ligier in
    Brazil, but I'm not sure.
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    Eurosport will be showing the Brazilian GP live at 5pm.
    BBC2 will be showing the highlights at 9.10 - 9.50pm
    
    Royston

    The deal between Brundle and Mclaren is not as clear as it seems.
    Indeed both Brundle AND Alliot have been taken on as second drivers,
    and the deal is for each one of them to drive for about half of the
    season.
    It seems an odd deal. Alliot is expected to take over mid-season.
    I think it's a bum deal all round as I don't rate either of them
    anyway...
    
    Salut,
    Edward

Is the Ferrari a 412T1 or a 412Ti?

Dave

    
    re: Brundle
    
    Anyone good enough to finish in the top six of the championship in 
    a Ligier can't be all bad. He's not a Senna or a Schumacher but there
    are very few Sennas and Schumachers. I hope he does really well
    this year. 
    
    I remember someone disagreeing with me at the start of last season
    when I predicted that Brundle would finish above Andretti. Time for
    a more difficult prediction methinks. :-)
    
    Richard

    re .389
    
    I'm not a particular fan, but I think the comments have been slightly
    unfair. Brundle was more than a thorn in Sennas side in F3 days. He has
    also never been in a truly competitive team at the right time, and I
    include Benneton. As far as I can tell there hasn't been an occaision
    when anyone has been able to compare Senna and Prost with Brundle in
    F1. In the old days of course, drivers used to compete in a saloon car
    race and a sports car race, and sometimes even a formula junior race at
    the same event as a GP. Then you could tell real talent.
    
    I am NOT saying Senna and Prost haven't got talent before anyone jumps.
    They have. I'm saying that it is difficult to tell amongst the "also
    rans" those that have talent and those that have money. There are the
    odd exceptions of course.
    
    Mike

    Re: McLaren and Brundle
    
    I would like to share the same enthusiasm some of you express on this
    matter. McLaren are definitely a top team. I still have the feeling
    that this year will be a learning season. They'll probably experience
    lots of problems with the new engines, have trouble qualifying, then
    starting races and why not finishing races. The drivers job will most
    probably be very frustrating and when the whole thing shows signs of
    working then a top star will be hired anyway and will fight for the
    title.
    
    Now I'd love to be wrong but I don't really have illusions ....

    Whatever the deal for Brundle, he seems to be a one-season-at-a-time
    man. Either he gets told to go (Benetton) or he jumps into a better
    seat (Ligier to McLaren)
    
    McLaren looks good on the CV, I also think that Peugeot are serious
    about trying to beat Renault. I also think that Hakinnen is extremely
    ambitious and will expect podium finishes some time over the coming
    season.
    
    Brundle is consistent if nothing else, and it will indeed be
    interesting to see what happens mid-season if the deal is to switch to
    Alliot for the second half. It just doesn't seem to be Ron Dennis's
    style to hire a token Frenchman for the sake of an engine, so maybe
    Alliot is looking good in the car.
    
    I f he is in as the token Frenchman then maybe the hope is that Brundle
    will show well enough to give Dennis the trump card of saying to those
    concerned that to switch drivers would seriously harm the teams chances
    in the constructors rankings.
    
    Who know?  Who c.....
    
    Terry B
                                                      

    DAMS (Driot Arnoux Motor Sport) following other succesful F3000 teams 
    (Jordan, Pacific, ...) will enter F1 in 1995. Like Pacific they will
    have both F3000 and F1 entries. 

    I wonder if any of these teams would consider getting Reynard to build
    them a chassis on a customer basis?
    
    Or is that againsts F1 rules?
    
    
    Terry B

RE: .-1

>    Well, that's what Pacific have done. However for the reasons discussed 
>    below they can't enter as Team=Pacific, Chassis=Reynard, Engine=...

Actually, they *could* have entered this way, but it would mean that 
Reynard is the constructor, just as when Scuderia Italia had Dallara 
building cars for them, Dallara was the constructur, and when they switched 
to Lola, Lola was the constructor.

--PSW

    Ok, time to switch TV sets again ... 1st practice session in Brazil
    today.
    
    Qualification lap record:		 1'15"703	Mansell	1992
    		  			(1'15"866	Prost 	1993)
    
    Race lap record:			 1'19"490	Patrese 1992
    					(1'20"024	Schumacher 1993)
    
    Previous winners:
    
    1984  Prost	    McLaren-TAG		1989  Mansell	Ferrari	
    1985  Prost     -----------  	1990  Prost     Ferrari
    1986  Piquet    Williams-Honda      1991  Senna     McLaren-Honda
    1987  Prost     McLaren-Honda       1992  Mansell   Williams-Renault
    1988  Prost     -------------    	1993  Senna     McLaren-Ford

    BBCtv Sportsnight programme ran an interview with a very relaxed Ayrton
    Senna on Wednesday evening.
    
    His mood is quietly confident. However, he feels that things will be
    more competitive, that racing will be more exciting for the watching
    public; as slower cars with lighter fuel loads will overtake faster
    cars in the early part of the race, etc.
    
    He feels he is getting used to the Williams, but don't expect him to
    run away with the championship.
    
    Wise words and attitude.
    
    John Watson in his CEEFAX column predicts that pole won't be so
    tactically important this year because of re-fuelling. What do you all
    reckon?
    
    
    
    Terry B.

    
    
    Brazil Grid
    
    
    1 - Senna   1.16.386
    2 - Schumaker 1.16.575
    3 - Alesi - Ferrari
    4 - W...  - Sauber
    5 - H...  - McLaren
    6 - F...  - Sauber
    7 - Hill  
    8 -       - Minardi
    9 - Fittipaldi  - Arrows
    10- Barrichello - Jordan
    

    Any ideas where Berger is and how close is Alesi to Senna.
    
    regards,
    
    JP

    
    
    I saw Berger walking coming back to box, but he didn't crash may be
    some engine problem.
     

    Hill had a fire-extinguisher go off in the cockpit, and later a
    mechanical failure.
    
     FIA FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP     
     Friday's unofficial practice times:    
                                   mins secs
     1 A Senna      Brz Williams   1:16.201 
     2 M Schumacher Ger Benetton   1:17.168 
     3 C Fittipaldi Brz Footwork   1:18.059 
     4 M Blundell   GB  Tyrrell    1:18.076 
     5 K Wendlinger Aut Sauber     1:18.134 
     6 M Hakkinen   Fin McLaren    1:18.580 
     7 G Morbidelli It  Footwork   1:18.677 
     8 G Berger     Aut Ferrari    1:18.754 
     9 J Alesi      It  Ferrari    1:18.800 
    10 U Katayama   Jpn Tyrrell    1:19.065 
    11 O Panis      Fr  Ligier     1:19.401 
    12 H Frentzen   Ger Sauber     1:19.453 
    13 R Bar'chello Brz Jordan     1:19.540 
    14 J Verstappen Hol Benetton   1:19.625 
    15 P Martini    It  Minardi    1:19.815 
    16 E Comas      Fr  Larrousse  1:19.816 
    17 M Alboreto   It  Minardi    1:20.004 
    18 J Herbert    GB  Lotus      1:20.123 
    19 E Bernard    Fr  Ligier     1:20.149 
    20 M Brundle    GB  McLaren    1:20.314 
    21 E Irvine     Ire Jordan     1:20.672 
    22 O Beretta    Mon Larrousse  1:21.707 
    23 P Lamy       Por Lotus      1:21.735 
    24 D Brabham    Aus Simtek     1:22.537 
    25 R Rat'berger Aut Simtek     1:23.549 
    26 B Gachot     Bel Pacific    1:24.372 
    27 P Belmondo   Fr  Pacific    1:25.836 
    28 D Hill       GB  Williams   1:51.368 
    

    Schumacher wins with Hill second and Alesi third.
    I don't think we are going to see anyone run away with the championship
    this year.  Ferrari still need to get some things sorted out.
    Senna needs more speed.  It looks like the refuelling added a little
    bit of excitement in that there is now some strategy to the race.  It's
    also nice to see the cars go sideways on acceleration.  The drivers now
    have to work a little more on their driving.  Where is Gilles, he could
    show them how to go through the corners sideways.
    
    It looks like it's going to be the most competetive season in a long
    time.
    Regards,
    JP

    It was refreshing to see Williams beaten fair and square in a straight
    fight. What worries me is the huge gap between Senna, Schumacher and
    all the others. But this is only the first race after all.
    Maybe the new Ferrari, which is scheduled for Imola, will close the
    gap.
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    I agree with -1, the gap between Senna & Schumacher and the rest was
    awesome. It puts Prost/Hill in perspective possibly ;-)
    
    Williams clearly have some work to do, and I do not doubt that Senna
    will be forcing them to do it! Good to see some of the lesser teams
    coming up as well, notabl Footwork in qualifying and Tyrrell.
    
    Finally - anybody care to apologise to Ayrton for criticising his
    comments (not his punch) about Irvine last year? Irvine has been banned
    for one race for his crazy move which could have killed 4 drivers and
    spectators. The clout that Brundle's head received was dreadful, let
    alone Verstappen's flip. Irvine clearly has a major "Mr Perfect"
    complex and a severe lack of attention problem.
    
    Paul

What, no mention of Schumacher's chop on Alesi?

Dave.

    
    Brundle has stated that his car was stopping with a mechanical fault.
    This prompted the Ligier to slow down leaving the closing Irvine with
    the choice of parking in the back of the Ligier or pulling out on the
    Benetton. Irvine says he didn't see the Benetton due to a damaged
    mirror (maybe) but even if he did his choices seemed to be a) hit the
    Ligier and take both cars out or b) pull out and MAYBE not take anybody
    out. Which would you choose? 

    
    Would some kind soul care to enter a (not too ;-) ) brief account of
    what happened, I was unfortunatly standing in a 100m que at heathrow
    whilst all this was happening.
    
    Garry.
    

Four cars in-line:-

M Brundle    GB  McLaren
E Bernard    Fr  Ligier 
E Irvine     Ire Jordan
J Verstappen Hol Benetton

Verstappen pulled alongside Irvine, Irvine pulled out from behind Bernard,
hitting Verstappen. Verstappen went on the grass, back on the track sideways,
Irvine hit Verstappen launching into the air, Verstappen hit Brundle as he
passed over head. I think Bernard was collected by Irvine as well on the way
off.

Dave.

Anyone see what happened to Gachot? Blundell?

Cheers,
Dave.

    Gachot retired on lap 2 after hitting someone or other.
    Blundell spun off all on his own on lap 22. He was in the top 10 at the
    time.
    
    I think that the treatment of Irvine is shoddy. I don't think he was
    reponsible for that incident. Brundle's slowing Mclaren seemed to be
    the cause of the problem, and you can hardly blame Brundle for a
    mechanical breakage.
    
    Edward

    Anyone know what happened to ....
    
    A) Christian Fittipaldi
    B) Gianni Morbidelli
    C) Olivier Beretta
    
    thanks in advance

    Anyone who drives with a broken mirror is just waiting for an accident
    to happen. He, like anyone else, has 2 and he should be using both (if
    they are available).
    
    I'm surprised that there hasn't been any comments about the crap that
    was left lying on the track for several laps! It was a miracle that we
    didn't see a number of punctures! As it was Micky the Shoe went right
    over something (front left tyre) while he was in the lead. 
    
    Glad the rain held off though - otherwise it would have been a total
    lottery.

    and Michele Alboreto. Ta
    

    Yes, I was suprised about all the muck left on the track after Blundell
    went off. I was sure we were going to see the 'pace' car make an early
    appearance.
    
    In the after race comments, Hill said he was suprised at how fast both
    Senna and Schumacher went away from the rest at the start. He also
    revealed that as he wasn't happy with his set-up, he settled for
    consistency to get some kind of result and that he only stopped for
    fuel and tyres ONCE. Schumacher and Senna both stopped twice (it was on
    the first stop that Schumacher overtook Senna -- shades of Williams of
    old). This means that thay were lighter than Hill -- at least -- and
    would explain (maybe?) their superior performance early on?
    
    Verstappen looked good, the Saubers seemed to slip away once the race
    got going. Tyrell seem to have finally tamed the Yamaha and are looking
    better than for a long time. Ferrari too looking good.
    
    And maybe it will take the Peugeot a while to settle down?
    
    Senna predicted that Williams would be competitive, but wouldn't have
    it all their own way. Benetton and Schumacher are hungry.
    
    Things look good.
                                                    
    Terry B.

This is crazy. This is like blaming Patrese for Petersons death. That accident
was going to happen one way or another. I suspect that the stewards reran the
replays with the commentary from Eurosport and the BBC, neither of whom managed
to spot Brundle almost stationary. Bernard was being left with nowhere to go,
which left Irvine with nowhere to go, which left Verstappen on the grass. You
could equally say that Brundle should have driven off the circuit, that 
Verstappen shouldn't have tried to pass (where WERE the yellow flags for the
McLaren??), Bernard shouldn't have been driving a Ligier etc etc etc. Banning
Irvine is utterly ridiculous. Banning him for another move earlier in the race
I could understand ;-)

All three of the drivers are relatively inexperienced, to blame any one of them
for what happened is crass ignorance. A potentially much worse accident befell
Patrese not so long ago when he collected the pit wall. If you listen to an ex
sports car driver, there are a couple of things that cause this, a) there are
no indicators on a single seater, b) there are no brake lights on a single
seater, c) an F1 car stops in a MUCH shorter distance than anything else. If
you have ever driven ANY kind of single seater you will rapidly appreciate
how little you can see and how that accident can have happened and how it
will happen again.

    From the Irish Times
    
            Christian Fittipaldi    lasted 21 Laps
            Michele Alboreto.       lasted  7 Laps
            Gianni Morbidelli       lasted  5 Laps
            Olivier Beretta         lasted  2 Laps
    

    Live on TF1 Gachot said that a Ligier went spinning infront of him
    causing him to slow down. Doing that he was caught by Beretta who had
    lost control of the Larrousse. It was Beretta's 1st GP.
    
    Among the beginners my vote goes to Verstappen who was quietly walking
    to a place in the top 6. Frentzen was doing well too until he made a
    fatal mistake and spun.

    A few bits:
    
    Belmondo found himself with no car. His chassis was actually completed
    at Interlagos. He missed Friday's practice sessions and could only do
    approximately .5 mile on Saturday.
    
    Ratzenberger never got in the rhythm with the Simtek.
    
    Beautiful striking performance from some of last year's backmarkers
    like: Minardi (Alboreto did 3rd fastest during one of the untimed
    sessions), Footwork (Morbidelli) and Tyrrell. I watched both timed
    sessions on Eurosport and Katayama was doing VERY well indeed.
    
    Little bit disappointing grey performance from the Lotus boys.
    
    Damon Hill and Gerhard Berger suffered. Starting with a cold Hill 
    experienced all sorts of problems with electronics etc ... causing him
    to watch most of the untimed practice sessions. Berger had lots of
    electrical problems and also had 4 engines break on him Saturday.
    
    The McLarens were on line with predictions. The engine still lacks at
    least a 100hp, the chassis is far from perfect and the reliability
    needs some improvements. The Peugeot guys are working fast so I expect
    them to show us some improvements at Imola.
    
    Next race is Pacific GP in Japan in 3 weeks.

    Re the BBC1 commentary.
    
    Why has Ayrton changed his name to I-ertun :-)
    
    tp

    That "name change" really got up my nose after about 10 minutes...
    
    Laurie.

    It took that long????
    

Because that is what his name is. During an interview at the end of last year
Jackie Stewart got a VERY strong warning from Mr Senna, that if he didn't
pronounce his name properly he would discontinue the interview, just in the 
same way that Patrick Chevaux would get upset at being called Shoveaxe, or
Laurie having to put up with Lowree. After an hour it would get up your nose.

Re.429

Come on Mike. There was no need for good old Murray to repeat the name 
continually. Once a minute is a bit much - there are other drivers ;-}


BTW I was told today of a recentquote by by Hill

"Ayrton is the Chris Eubank of Formula 1"

Just reporting- no comment by me

A

Was the BBC coverage any better than Eurosport?

Dave (Eurosport watcher)

Was the BBC coverage any better than Eurosport?

NO! Apart from the fact that you could hear Murray Walker and couldn't hear John
and Allard in the telephone box at the exit of the pit lane!

>Come on Mike. There was no need for good old Murray to repeat the name 
>continually. Once a minute is a bit much - there are other drivers ;-}

Ah but how many people can he actually remember the names of without looking in
the programme!!!! All his old favourites such as Alain Patrese and Nelson Prost
don't drive anymore!

Mike

    Poor old Murray.
    
    He is still having trouble with the Brundell brothers...
    
    Reporting on Martin Brundles Tyrrell going out, he laughed, and amended
    it to Blundell's Tyrrell. Obviously unsure about the first name.
    
    I don't mind the I-Ayrton Senna bit, it even sounds authentic, but what
    ever happened to the de Silva bit?
    
    Terry B

He didn't want his family to find out, Senna is the same as Smith in Brazil.
Trouble is he got good AND Senna is a more promotable name (i.e. shades of
Hollywood creeping in). Besides which Murray would never be able to cope!

He actually had one season of FF2000 as Ayrton Senna-de Silva, I can remember
him at Oulton Park driving away like he was in an F3 and everyone else was in a
FF1600. He was one of the few drivers I have seen in the past who was very
obviously heading for F1.

Maybe I'm getting old, but I detect a bit of "softening" to Mr. Senna in this 
conference. Maybe even a bit of respect? 

Seriously, I remember reading in ON TRACK during Senna's F3 days that he a one 
Martin Brundel were pretty hot. I don't remember the detqils, but didn't he rip 
off something like 10 or 12 wins in a row before Martin stopped his train? Then I 
seem to remember Martin running off a pretty good string. At any rate, he was an 
impressive youngster then.

I would think that his and Schumacher's qualifying and racing show a couple of 
things. Both are bette than their teammates and quicker than everyone else. It was 
interesting to note that after the top two, there was quite a clutch of drivers 
pretty evenly matched up. Folks might argue, but the pit stops did make things a 
bit more interesting.

If yesterday was any indication (and it MAY not be), I'm looking forward to a 
competitive season. Alesi was quoted as saying the new Ferrari engine's got real 
spunk and the new car due at San Marino should fix whatever packaging/aero 
problems they have. I'd love to see a three team race for a change!

Paul

    Re: That Accident.
    
    1. If Irvine had a broken mirror and couldn't see if anyone was
    overtaking him, he should've pitted and had it seen to. And used the
    other mirror.
    
    2. Brundle may have been slowing down, but to critisise the tv
    commentators for not picking it up is not on. They see (BBC in
    particular) what we see, and Brundle does not appear in the shot until
    Murray is already saying "Oh my goodness, that's, er, and it's, er..."
    
    3. Verstappen seemed so cool lifting his visor to survey the scene
    as the blue and green Benetton bounced to a halt with fuel (or water)
    pouring out. One to watch. A future World Champion?
    
    4. I mean, Irvine must've seen the Benetton once he started to pull
    out? It was virtually alongside him, but he just kept pulling over as
    if to say, well Jos, you have to get by me -- I'm not letting you
    through and besides, I want to get past this old Ligier.
    
    5. Of course, it's easy to this from the comfort of your average 0kph
    arm-chair. Must be a different kettle of fish, as we say over here,
    when you're in a jolly fast motor car.
    
    5. If Brundle was going THAT slowly, he surely would have pulled off
    the track quite soon?
    
    
    Terry B
                                                     

    re. refueling stops
    
    It seems from what we have seen Sunday that all (most ?) teams have
    exploited the new rules in a similar way. They have reduced the size of
    the tank to something like 70 litres, meaning they will always have to
    stop 2 times at least.
    
    The stops brought some level on confusion, but because all stops were
    planned and because each driver had to stop 2 times and approximately
    at the same time there was very little unknown.  

>    the tank to something like 70 litres, meaning they will always have to
>    stop 2 times at least.
    
    ...but didn't Hill manage to get round with only one stop ? This means
    that his tanks have the capacity which menas they have options as to
    how to plan the race.
    
    	Terry

    The size of the fuel tanks remains unchanged at a minimum capacity of
    200 litres it's just that you choose how much fuel to actually put in.

    According to Hill, he only stopped once. Whereas Senna stopped twice.
    
    Senna therefore was carrying a lighter fuel load each time, which as
    Jonathon Palmer commented, provided us with three sprints in the one
    race. Hill's plan was one of a consistant approach. And it sort of paid
    off this time out.
    
    
    terry B.

    Ref the Irvine incident, I didn't see the run up to it (did anyone),
    but it looked like Versteppen was trying to overtake two cars at once.
    A tricky operation at the best of times. It also looked like Brundle
    was running into the pits anyway. His position on the track looked
    like he was staying off the racing line. Versteppen was asking for
    trouble. A racing "incident".
    
    Rupert

    What was obvious is that most cars displayed oversteer, except the
    Ferrari with strong understeer. And since they don't have electronic 
    traction control anymore they have problems with the rear end, Senna
    being the most visible example. I think all teams will have to do
    something about suspensions to make sure the wheels keep in close
    contact with the track, soften the springs and anti-rolls is a weak
    term. 

It was rather nice to see the drivers fighting to control the cars, especially 
when exiting the tunrs and trying to put the power to the road. I am glad to see 
more emphasis placed on driver talent than on engineering prowress. I think it 
made for a better race overall. Hopefully it bodes well for the season.

As for the accident, we saw but one feed in the US thru ESPN. They showed the 
incident a number of times, always in slowmo. It appeared to me that Irvine must 
have been really concentrating on the cars in front of him and did not see the car 
overtaking him till it was too late. It seemed he pulled out without seeing the 
Benetton. To race with a broken mirror, well... I'm not so sure I'd stop for that 
either. The punishement seems harsh, but the officials must feel that they need to 
remind him (and others by example?) that they are still responsible. It sure was 
quite a spectacular sight but not one I need to see in future races.

I think we are seeing a number of "youngsters" with great potential. I predict 
that before too many races pass, we'll all be focused on these new guys as if they 
are longtime F1 pros. Always nice to see new talent emerge.

Paul

    
    From what people are saying it seems the Irvine incident is simular to
    the one last year at Monza when Alesi was slowing down and moved across
    the track causing Berger to have his big accident, after practice when
    the tension is not so high it was maybe unexcusable for Alesi to punt
    off Berger, but in the middle of a race, trying to overtake someone
    with the adrenalin pumping these accidents happen. Irvine should have
    been giving the benifit of the doubt, more proberbly the stewards
    decided to make an example of him early on.

    Well, the guy (Irvine) has raced in two GPs, and has been at the centre
    of controversy on each occasion.
    
    Maybe the the powers that be felt this time he ought not to go
    unpunished.
    
    I-ayrton Senna was seen gesticulating furiously after his spin. The
    stewards, on hearing and understanding his cockpit rantings, informed
    the local hero that Irvine had been out of the race for a long time, and
    that I-ayrton couldn't really justify biffing him on the nose for
    un-professionalism this time.
    
    
    Full report in AutoSprot no doubt.
    
    Terry B

Re: Note 2099.445 by UFHIS::GVIPOND 

>    From what people are saying it seems the Irvine incident is simular to
>    the one last year at Monza when Alesi was slowing down and moved across
>    the track causing Berger to have his big accident, after practice when
>    the tension is not so high it was maybe unexcusable for Alesi to punt
>    off Berger

Alesi did not punt off Berger...they never touched.  The session was over 
and Alesi was aware of that fact, but Berger was not.  Berger was on a flying 
lap and Alesi, cruising around the track, spotted Berger in his mirrors.  
Alesi swerved to his left to clear the racing line for Berger (they were 
approaching a left-hander), just as Gerhard swerved left to avoid the 
much-slower Alesi.

The incident was very much like one where you're walking toward someone on
the sidewalk head-on, and you both move left, then right, then left...it's
funny at walking speed, but the stakes are higher at 100+ mph. 

Mike

RE: .448

Quoting directly from the 1994 Formula One Technical Regulations:

	The fuel capacity of the car, for 1994 only, must not be less
	than 200 litres.

--PSW

    >> re .450 "I wonder what master tactician Prost would have done ... 
     
     I suspect he'd have started on full tanks, conserved tires and
     made do with only 1 stop.....
    
     Pete
    

    
    re .447, I never said Alesi touched Berger, If punt implicitly suggests
    to 'touch' then maybe "punt" was the wrong word, but Alesi moving over
    caused Berger to run off line and hit the wall. Last night on Eurosport
    they showed the Irvine incident from the head on cameras, From what I
    saw, they were going 3 in single file with Brundle out of shot 'under'
    the camera angle. Verstappen pulled along side Irvine, who pulled along
    side the other guy who was pulling out to get past Brundle who was now
    starting to appear in camera shot as they approached rapidly, forcing 
    Verstappen to move wide and run onto the grass. No one touched until 
    Verstappen lost control and spun in front of Irvine, Verstappen then 
    caught Irvine who was pushed into the 3rd guy, whilst Irvine flipped the 
    Benneton on to Brundles head. It looked like a game of chicken, with
    only 1 being able to get the line through the next corner all 3 looked
    like they were waiting for the others to back off. Very difficult to
    know what was going through peoples mind at that point especially under
    racing conditions. I bet Brundle has a headache this week though.
          
    Garry.

    re: 452
    
    Once Verstappen's car came to rest, there was a clearly visible mark
    made by a revolving rear wheel (Irvines), on the side of the Benetton,
    which suggests that there was indeed contact before -- or whilst -- the
    Dutchman put his feet on the grass.
    
    
    Terry B.

Maybe what they've done is install 2 tanks in the cars.  One to be used as 
their 'main' tank that will be say, 90 litres.  The other might be placed 
somewhere else in the car and connected to the main one by a 
thin/non-functional line and would be 110 litres in size - essentially 
unused, but still considered to be part of the fuel tank.

This is just speculation, but knowing how the manufacturers interpret the 
rules I wouldn't out it past them.

Dave

    Re. McLaren-Peugeot, the "electronics" problems that plagued Mika
    Hakkinen and Martin Brundle are in fact just mechanical problems.
    McLaren-Peugeot like many others had designed their own 'drive-by-wire'
    electronic throttle system. Following some discussions with FIA every
    team showed up at Interlagos with a traditional mechanical linkage.
    That thing did not work well, and both drivers reported that they found
    themselves a couple of times with the throttle wide open when they
    lifted. Sadly enough the problem could not be cured for the race.
    
    One of the results was the famous 4 car pile up.

RE: .455

Maybe it means that McLaren were using fuel tanks with more than 200 litre 
capacity last year (remember, the 200 litres is a MINIMUM, not a maximum), 
in order to hold enough fuel to last an entire race, and this year they 
were able to drop to the 200 litre minimum.

--PSW

    USA Today reports that Alesi has crashed the Ferrari hard in testing.
    Seems he was going 155mph when he hit the wall hard. Alesi says he
    needs some time off to heal. The report does not get into what caused
    the crash.
    
    SGC
    

    Who buys Ligier is still a question mark. Last week the 3 candidates
    (Briatore, Streiff, Larrousse) presented their offer to De Rouvre and
    Ligier but no decision came out. 
    
    The groups headed by Streiff and Larrousse decided to merge into one
    'french' group (Streiff, De Chaunac, Larrousse, Williams, Prost,
    Tambay). The french state companies, that have been supporting Ligier
    for many years, are asking questions. They would most certainly bail
    out in case the team is sold to Briatore.
    
    The final decision is probably in the hands of Renault Sports. The new
    owners want to keep the Renault engine (free of charge).
    
    ......

There will be anyway two Ferraris at the Pacific GP. One for Berger and one for 
Larini who will substitute for Alesi.

I really must protest at Mr Burgess's remarks. None of the drivers have blamed
Irvine. None of the commentators spotted Brundle almost stopped even with the
benefit of slomo. All three drivers said they had very little option but to
be involved in the accident. It was just unfortunate that Jos Verstappen just
happened to choose that moment to try and overtake. Brundle didn't have much
choice what he did with a blown flywheel and he was in fact still just on the
racing line. There are all sorts of statements that could be made along the
lines of "if x had moved over" But at the speed these cars are travelling,
especially there, close to 200mph, that particular accident was going to happen
in one form or another, whatever anyone did. Luckily nobody was hurt, so the
sooner the FIA and others get off their high horses and get back to the business
of RACING the better.

    I spent the weekend with some of the Brazil timekeeping team. One was
    in the intermediate time "hut" right by the Irvine incident. He said
    that Brundle had not slowed significantly and wondered why Irvine
    didn't take the third option - hitting the brakes - that's the pedal in
    the middle Eddie. Remember that you just have to lift in these cars for
    the downforce to knock a huge percentage of the speed off, and the
    brakes are incredibly effective. Maybe eddie thought he could block
    Verstappen?
    
    The general mood was supportinve of the action taken. Irvine was out of
    order in Japan on two counts, blocking the leader when being lapped,
    and barging Warwick off, and apparently was very flippant with the
    FISA stewards at Senna's enquiry.  The feeling was - he had it coming
    and needed to be taught a lesson.
    
    

>Brundle had not slowed significantly

Brundles own words would dispute that, and if you look at the tape......

>hitting the brakes

Irvine would have rammed Bernard. There are NO brake lights on an F1 car, just
think about travelling down the motorway at 100mph 3ft behind a Range Rover
that has no brake lights. You realise that he is stopping......

    If he had no time to brake, surely he also had no time to swerve out?
    The reaction times look pretty similar to me.
    
    Ref, Brundle, I have looked at the tape, several times, and read
    Brundle's comments. Yes he had slowed, but he was far from crawling
    along.
    
    Paul

    
    RE:.467 Yes he had slowed, but he was far from crawling
        along.
    
    Try this experiment......travel the motorway at 30 or 50  KPH above what the
    rest of the traffic is doing.  See for yourself which action is easier
    to take...braking or turning around another vehicle.  The point here
    is not what the front driver's absolute spped was, rather what the
    closing speed of the two vehicles was.  From a bystander's point of
    view, 200KPH or 150KPH are not going to look very different but the
    faster car is going to be closing at 50KPH.  That would not be my idwa
    of the time to test the brakes......
    
    Brian
    

    Whatever - FISA think Irvine was out of order, his ban has been
    extended to three races on appeal.
    
    Paul

Although agreeing with the sentiments of .466, the point surely is that if Bernard
had enough foresight and presence of mind to lift off (and he did not ram 
Brundle) then Eddie had the same opportunity. 

I still doubt that instinct says swerve into the overtaking position without
looking- perhaps lifting off and trying the other side? But as in previous note
not one of the noters here was at the hearing and heard waht was actually said
by those attending

A

    My guess, as someone noted previously, is that FIA wanted to make an
    example. For many years they have let everyone do everything. Now FIA
    is trying to get some sanity into F1. Irvine, a F1 beginner, was the
    perfect candidate for a ban.

RE: 464

I'm sorry. It won't happen again.

>    Whatever - FISA think Irvine was out of order, his ban has been
>    extended to three races on appeal.
    
	Quite right too, in my opinion. Blatant piece of shoving the
	other man out of the way.

	-John

RE: .474

Didn't seem that blatant to me.  But wasn't Irvine already under probation 
over the Senna incident?  Apparently Eddie Irvine came across as cocky and 
insolent at the Steward's inquiry into the Senna affair last year, and so 
when he erred again this year, they threw the book at him.

--PSW

    The FIA report mentions that they heard all 4 drivers: Irvine,
    Verstappen, Bernard and Brundle. Apparently Irvine had a very arrogant
    attitude, hence the x3 ban. On the other hand FIA thought that the 10K$
    fine was not appropriate (Irvine - and Jordan - was not able to get the
    cash anyway)

    Kelvin Burt in No1 on the list for the 3 races that Irvine will watch
    on TV ... not confirmed yet

When it was first reported, Irvine received a 1 race ban. Was the report in error? 

In other sports in the US (baseball, basketball, etc.) a suspension results in a 
pay reduction. For example, if you're a big time football player who makes, say, 
$1.6M for playing a 16 game season (preseason doesn't count), a 1 game suspension 
means you don't get $160,000.

How is Invine affected by this ban other than having to watch the race from 
outside the car?

Paul

    Irvine was originally given 
    
    - 1 race ban
    - 10K$ fine
    
    by the FIA marshalls at Interlagos.
    
    Unhappy with this Irvine decided to go to the FIA International Court
    of Appeal. This ultimate FIA jurisdiction decided to
    
    - lift the 10K$ fine
    - x3 the race ban, taking into account Irvine's history of incidents
      since he appeared in Formula Ford !
    
    As noted earlier, the Brazil GP incident was certainly a case of 50/50
    but given Irvine's past and current arrogance, FIA have decided to give
    this sport a lesson  

    Jordan have signed up Aguri Suzuki for the Pacific GP to replace
    Irvine. They have also signed Kelvin Burt on a long term test contract.
    They have an option on him until 1997/8 and expect him to be driving in
    1995 (or San Marino?)
    
    Paul

Can anyone tell me what time of day the San Marino GP will start ?


Dave.

Does anyone know if or when the Pacific GP will be broadcast on ESPN?

    The Pacific GP is listed in the RACERS notes as being televised at 7:50
    Sunday morning and being tape delayed same day coverage.
    
    Jim Davidson

    This morning (GMT + 2) the F1 circus was allowed a free practice
    session on the Aida TI Tanaka circuit in Japan. Lap record (F3000 I
    think) is in the 1'21" area. Renault engineers have run a simulation
    and concluded that F1s could do 1'11"500. We'll see.
    
    Anyway for the 1st ever free timed F1 session ... Schumacher was
    fastest (by 1 second) over the Williams gang, Senna followed by Hill.
    
    Don't know about ESPN but Eurosport will have the 2 qualification
    sessions live (tomorrow and saturday) with a replay some time same day.
    Race starts at 6am CET (GMT+2) Sunday.

    In fact Schumacher did 1'11"300 (faster than predicted)
    
    This morning (in Europe) Senna went fastest during the untimed practice
    session, ahead of Schumacher, Comas, Hakkinen and Hill.
    
    During the 1st timed qual session Senna went fastest in 1'10" something
    just .22 faster than Schumacher, ...

    <From rec.autos.sport News group>
    
    Here is the result of the 1 qualifying session
    
    Senna 	1' 10.223
    Schum 	1' 11.223
    Comas 	1' 12.230
    Hill 	1' 12.323
    Hakkinen 	1' 12.722
    Barichello 	1' 12.827
    Brunddle 	1' 13.103
    Berger 	1' 13.152
    Frentzen 	1' 13.424
    
    
    Stephen.

	Ceefax had it somewhat different to .-1. The first four were

	Senna
	Schumacher
	Hill
	Hakkinen

	The first two were very close at 1' 10.3" ish. These were
	followed by Berger,Brundle,Verstappen,Frentzen,Larini but
	not necessarily in that order.

	The two Tyrells recorded identical times to the 1/1000th 
	of a second and the Lotuses beat the Simtek (but only just).

	-John

    Another News report says :-
    
    
    Vague details via BBC radio 5 at 6.00 this morning regarding the
    results of the 1st qualifying session for the Pacific GP.
    
                    1 Senna
                    2 Schumacher
                    3 Hill
                    4 Hakkinen
                    5 Brundle
                    12 Blundell
                    24 Herbert
    
    That's all they said, apart from the fact that Senna and Schmacher
    played a waiting game until the last 15 minutes. Hill is only .2 seconds
    down on Schumacher at the moment.
    
    

    Official times for the first qualifying session:
    
    1 senna 1' 10.218
    2 Schum 1' 10.440
    3 Hill 1' 10.771
    4 Hakkinen 1' 11.683
    5 Berger 1' 11.744
    6 Larini 1' 12.372
    7 Barichello 1' 12.409
                                                   

    From the Formula One Racing WWW server at
    http://www.abekrd.co.uk/Users/steven/f1/f1.html
    
    
    
    Latest News 
   =============



   Pacific GP - First Qualifying Session 
   ======================================

                           Best Lap   diff.   Speed

     1 A. Senna            1.10.218     -     189.8
     2 M. Schumacher       1.10.440   0.222   189.2
     3 D. Hill             1.10.771   0.553   188.3
     4 M. Hakkinen         1.11.683   1.465   185.9
     5 G. Berger           1.11.744   1.526   185.8
     6 M. Brundle          1.12.351   2.133   184.2
     7 N. Larini           1.12.372   2.154   184.1
     8 R. Barrichello      1.12.409   2.191   184.1
     9 J. Verstappen       1.12.554   2.336   183.7
    10 H. Frentzen         1.12.686   2.468   183.4
    11 G. Morbidelli       1.12.866   2.648   182.9
    12 M. Blundell         1.13.013   2.795   182.5
    13 U. Katayama         1.13.013   2.795   182.5
    14 E. Comas            1.13.111   2.893   182.3
    15 C. Fittipaldi       1.13.169   2.951   182.1
    16 M. Alboreto         1.13.342   3.124   181.7
    17 P. Martini          1.13.529   3.311   181.2
    18 E. Bernard          1.13.613   3.395   181.0
    19 K. Wendlinger       1.13.855   3.637   180.4
    20 A. Suzuki           1.14.036   3.818   180.0
    21 O. Beretta          1.14.101   3.883   179.9
    22 O. Panis            1.14.106   3.888   179.8
    23 J. Herbert          1.14.538   4.320   179.8
    24 P. Lamy             1.14.657   4.439   178.5
    25 D. Brabham          1.14.946   4.728   177.8
    26 B. Gachot           1.16.927   6.709   173.2
    ---------
    27 P. Belmondo         1.18.671   8.453   169.4

    R. Ratzenberger didn't drive any laps during the qualifying session.


   Pacific GP 
   ===========

   Here are some practice times set on the first run at the Ti circuit at Aida. 

   1. Schumacher           1.11.307        186.949 km/h
   2. Senna                1.12.572
   3. Hill                 1.12.601
   4. Hakkinen             1.13.169
   5. Verstappen           1.13.703
   6. Fittipaldi           1.13.727
   7. Berger               1.13.773
   8. Frentzen             1.13.867
   9. Comas                1.13.906
   10. Wendlinger          1.14.335
   11. Larini              1.14.343
   12. Brundle             1.14.537
   13. Barrichello         1.14.525
   14. Morbidelli          1.14.533
   15. Panis               1.14.678
   16. Herbert             1.15.029
   17. Alboreto            1.15.148                 
   18. Blundell            1.15.256
   19. Katayama            1.15.450
   20. Bernard             1.15.577

      Williams still have problems 
      =============================

   Ayrton Senna recorded an identical time in a passive FW15D to the time he has set in the
   new FW16 at Jerez last week. This is not a good sign for Williams. Patrick Head said,
   "there are a few aspects of the FW15D which are better than the FW16". They are also
   doing some work on breaks. Head also commented, "I wouldn't say we've solved
   everything". 

   Suzuki to drive for Jordan 
   ===========================

   Aguri Suzuki will replace Eddie Irvine this weekend. Suzuki lost his drive at Footwork this
   year when the Japanese company reduced it's funding to the now renamed Arrows team. 


   Steven Glenister 
   steven@abekrd.co.uk 

    Having waded through the notes on the share price.....
    
    Pretty dull race courtesy of Mika. Schumacher never really troubled
    once Senna had been punted off. The Williams looks a real handful, both
    drivers looked on the ragged edge most of the time. It reminded me of
    the early days of active ride at Williams when Mansell and Patrese
    never knew what was going to happen next.
    
    Further down the field - excellent drive by Barrichello, well deserved
    podium. My bets are on him not being at Jordan next year. Also,
    excellent drive by Brundle and very unlucky not to finish. The McLaren
    looked excellent in every category bar grunt. Unlike the Zetec and
    Renault units, he just coouldn't outdrag the Hart.
    
    Gossip -- Ferrari rumoured to have used illegal traction control in
    Saturday free practice by means of a variable rev limiter. If this is
    proven, they could be banned for the season (oh yeah?)
    
    Jordan trying to tempt "Our Nige" over for Imola. Don't ask - don't get
    being the rationale.
    
    Alesi out until Monaco.
    
    Paul

    Has anyone got the full starting grid and can confirm that Ratzenberger
    finished 11th.
    	Cheers

    Why did Hill stop ?
    
    Tony.

	Gearbox trouble they said on, ITV I think it was.  I remember that only
one side gave the reason.

				Malcolm.

    
    Boredom perhaps?
    
    Lets face it.... TI is not the circuit made for great racing.
    
    Terry
    

    Report in the paper today quoting from Hakkinen (rougly) - "I went to
    apologise to Senna. I will not mention what words he said, he did not
    reply in a positive way!". Hill also had a moan about Hakkinen forcing
    him off, so maybe Mika was making an even more risky move in visiting
    the Williams motorhome.
    
    Without going back for a second look, it seemed to me that Senna backed
    off a bit suddenly to give way to Schu and caught Mika out.
    
    It also reported that Hill stopped with gearbox trouble.
    
    Whatever Murray thinks, I'm still waiting to see how the new rules are
    giving us better racing - although we're certainly getting some
    different results. When a good battle looks like brewing up, it always
    gets interrupted by one of those spectacular refuelling stops! 
    
    I wonder when was the last time neither Williams nor McLaren finished a
    race.

It looked to me that Senna backed out and slowed quickly to let Schumacher in and that 
Mika was so close he simply punted him. Too bad. I was hoping to see a battle between 
Senna and Schumacher. And who knows, maybe Mika.

It was a dule race. I'm not sure if it's the new rules or the circuit, which had some interesting 
corners, but not many passing areas. ESPN reported that the circuit is so remote, there is 
only one road in and the organizers leased some 1,500 buses to ferry people in. Does not 
sound like my idea of fun, but then sitting in traffic in my own car for three hours doesn't 
either. Oh, well.

Brundle did have an excellent drive. I'm sure he's disappointed. ESPN also reported that 
he may have to share that ride. It makes no sense to me but...

Paul

    My 5c worth...
    
    Senna made a poor start compared to Schu (looked very traction
    controlish on the Benetton :-) ). Senna wanted to get away and pull
    right for the inside line, but found the benetton alongside so he had
    to go left again - he seemed to get a lot of wheelspin as well. As they
    came into the corner, Senna had a brief look down the inside of Schu,
    realised there was no way through and backed off, only for MH to stuff
    him up the back as he wasn't expecting it.
    
    I expect Williams to come into their own from Imola.
    
    Paul 

    I am the only person seeing this or what.  Traction controll or the
    lack of it seems to bring out the better drivers.  IE a lot of
    fishtailing when comining out of corners and stomping on the gas.  I
    think a lot of the drivers who were used to traction controll are still
    not use to it not being there.  I think lack of traction controll
    devices and the refueling has increased the excitement in F1.  Now if
    only Senna could finish a race there would be some excitement at the
    front as well.
    regards,
    JP
    PS.  It sounds like Alesi's accident was worse than first thought. 
    Maybe Todt could talk Prost into coming back for a few races.  

    
    Comment in The Times that many of the Japanese crowd were quietly
    amused when Senna was punted off -- apparently many still carry a
    grudge re the time when Senna intentionally punted off Prost at the
    start of Suzuka a few back ....
    
    Definitely a case of the biter bit -- never thought I'd see Senna get
    stuffed from a slow start!
    
    
    Colin

	Well I enjoyed it. The TV director wisely left Schumacher alone
	and concentrated on the action, of which there was a good deal.
	The circuit may be tight but it was also wide and allowed the
	race to proceed without too much hindrance from backmarkers.

	It seems to me that the Williams is still the best car, 
	particularly where the power can be used, but also that the
	squad behind them could easily cause trouble. The Benneton 
	is a good all round performer, unlikely to improve much, but
	the Ferrari (better handling) and McLaren (more power) have
	the potential to become winners too this season. 

	Schumacher well deserves these wins through some very fast and
	consistent driving, and he'll need the points to get the 
	championship - no runaway winners this season.

	-John

	PS Even Barichello could win a race - If it should rain.

I'm not so sure that the Williams is "the best car". It's very good, no doubt, but it would 
appear that the Benetton is quite good as well. The difference of only .2 sec on the grids 
says something. What we have are two good cars in the hands of two good drivers.

The Ferrari may have more potential. It's really hard to say. They still have problems in 
low speed handling. Don't they have a modified car coming soon?

It would appear that the current rules with fuel stops favor the small, light weight packages. 
The Benneton seems quite good. The Williams and McLarens have larger engines and 
need more cooling. That where the Benneton seems to have the advantage. There might 
not be any advantage at Bennneton if refueling were not allowed.

Paul

    The Benetton has definitely got a better balance. Better design or more
    time for setup ? Remember the B194 was the 1st car on the track this
    year. They've had the time to cure a number of initial problems while
    Ferrari and Williams are still in the debugging phase. Of course when
    you debug during race week-ends you quickly end up in panic mode.
    
    The Williams should benefit from the Imola circuit. So will Ferrari. I
    don't expect Benetton to show any noticeable progress there.
    
    The McLarens have impressed me at Aida. The engines have suffered over
    heating problems causing the race failures. Otherwise the cars were
    very well balanced. Watching Hakkinen 'follow' Schumacher was very
    interesting as the car looked so much softer and tidy, compared to the
    brutal handling of the Williams. This is a testing and setup year
    (transition) but they may well get in the points one of these days.  

The Benneton is a very good car. I agree that they have had the benefit of testing their 
entire package and that has paid off. I would think that at a power track like Imola, the 
Williams and Ferraris may improve. In fact, I would expect the qualifying gap to open a bit 
between Senna's Williams and Schumacher's Benneton. We'll see. And didn't Ferrari say 
that they have an updated car coming to Imola?

No doubt about the McLarens. This is a transition year for them. When you compare the 
testing time they have had to that of Benneton, for example, they came in much later. But 
McLaren is such a professional team. I expect them to continue to improve through the 
year. The car looks neat and tidy on the track, but clearly is yet down on horsepower and 
reliability. I think we'll see Peugeot work very hard on those problems.

By the way, do you think we'll see those big rear wing assemblies again? The T-I track 
must have been very low grip for everyone to have gone to those hugh air fences. All the 
teams must have known that since they all seemed to have the same solution.

Paul

    Paul,
    
    I've got to say this... Please keep your notes inside 80 columns...
    It's such a pain trying to read them, I don't bother, and I can't be
    the only one.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    I checked up on my rhetorical question of a few back - last time no
    Williams or McLarens finished a GP was Adelaide 1987. This was Senna's
    last race for Lotus. McLaren was Prost and Johanson, Williams was
    Piquet and Patrese (standing in for Mansell who was injured in Japan).

Patrese finished that race didn't he, but out of the points?

Same for Monza in 1988 - Senna (McL) out with an accident, Prost (McL) with some 
mechanical problem, J-L Schlesser (Williams) accident, with Senna I think, and 
Patrese (Williams) finished out of the points.

Dave

    Laurie -
    
    Thanks for the heads up. I've been using the TEAMLINKS Notes interface
    and I was unaware that the editor was putting in greater than
    80 col. I'll get it fixed.
    
    Paul
    

    No problem Paul, now to fix Dave Burden! ;^)
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

>    No problem Paul, now to fix Dave Burden! ;^)

But I've already been fixed!! :-)

I'll try to be nice too and move my margin in a bit (I'm using
Teamlinks Conf on a MAC.)

Dave

    
    What happened to Alesi ?  From looking at it on TF1 he just ran into 
    Senna having nowhere else to go, it didn't look like he was going 
    fast at all and he got out and walked away. Now I read that he'll be
    out for sometime. Can anyone explain.
    
    Garry.
    

It wasn't Alesi - he was injured in testing, damaging his vertabrae in his back,
hence being out for a while.  Nicola Larini replaced him at Aida

Mark

    
    Thanks. My ignorance can be partly explained by having to watch the
    highlights on TF1 at midnight on Monday. 
    

    Jordan have signed Andrea de Cesaris for the nexttwo races to replace
    Irvine.
    
    Ferrari *are* under some sort of investigation for illegal traction
    control at Aida, and for using Imola for testing in breach of the regs
    against testing at circuits prior to GPs
    
    Briatore rumoured to have won Ligier, but Williams trying to get the
    Renault contract ended! Plan is to use Ligier as proving ground for
    young drivers and as a way of getting new suppliers (eg Audi) into F1.
    
    Larrousse will have yet another colour scheme for Imola with another
    Tourtel Group company being shown off. When stated that it would be
    predominantly blue - Comas joked it would be Gitanes!
    
    paul

    Just heard on the BBC that Barrichello crashed going 160mph. Seemed he
    caught a wheel on the edge of the track and got sideways then flipped
    the car twice. He is okay but a little shacken up. 
    
    Senna leads the first session. Do not have any times.

Worse news from Imola:  Ratzenberger crashed heavily after something 
(probably half the front wing) broke loose on the Simtek.  He went off the 
track at 300kph, was knocked unconscious, and died en route to hospital.

--PSW

    Results just in from Imola:
    	1.  Schumacher
    	2.  Larini
    	3.  Hakkinen
    More importantly ...
    	1.  Senna critically injured in ~300km/h crash.  Senna is
    	    reportedly in a coma at the hospital in Bologna and is said to
    	    be fighting for his life.  (Why did it take medical workers so
    	    long to get to him?  And, why did they start to mess with his
    	    helmet?  DOn't they know that by screwing around with his
    	    helmet they could cause severe damage to his neck - as we learn
    	    from American football?
    	2.  Loose tire from Alboreto's car critically injured three pit
    	    workers (2 from Ferrari).  What happened?
    I am having a hard time recovering from this blighted weekend.  Maybe
    Prost knew something that we didn't ...
    
    As much of a Senna critic as I am, I sincerely hope that he fully
    recovers from his accident and makes it back to racing form.
    
    				-- Carlos.
    

    As a follow on to my previous note ...
    
    ESPN reported that ironically, prior to the race Niki Lauda (consultant
    to Ferrari) requested that Senna (as the most forceful figure in F1)
    convene a session of F1 drivers to look into safety issues.  Lauda was
    particularly concerned about the spate of neck injuries (Alesi, Lehto
    and Barichello) which may cause fatalities (Ratzenberger).  Lauda went
    on to state that with the absence of Prost there was no one spending
    any significant time on driver safety issues.  Berger apparently agreed
    with Lauda - and, Ecclestone could be seen calming Berger prior to the
    restart after Senna's crash.  (Note that Berger and Senna are
    reportedly VERY good friends).
    
    Perhaps this call was a little too late ...
    
    				-- Carlos.
    

The BBC have reported that Senna died from his injuries.

I haven't seen a full report, but from Sky News coverage it looked a very
similar accident, and in almost the same place, as Ratzenberger.

The main tub of the car seemed complete, although one side had been swiped 
off. 

A very bad weekend - 12 years without a fatality, then two in two days.

I wonder what effect the new rule changes have had?

Peter.

    Condolences to Senna and Ratzenberger's family.
    F1 lost some great people this weekend.
    JP

    TSN has said that a tracheostomy was performed on Senna at the crash
    site, before being flown out.   All to no avail.
    
    Re: 523 : One of the concerns with going to the smaller tyres was that
    in the event of a high speed loss of control, the smaller tyres would
    not slow the car as much as the larger tyres.  
    
    A black weekend for F1 and the racing world.
    
    Lesley
    
    
    Lesley
     

    ABC News has reported that Ayrton Senna died in San Marino today.  The
    three-time World Champion suffered fatal injuries in a high speed crash
    at almost the same site where Roland Ratzenberger died two days ago.
    
    As a fellow South American, I mourn the loss of a great hero.  As a F1
    fan, I will miss Senna's contribution to the excitement of the sport. 
    Senna's death truly saddens me ...
    
    				-- Carlos.
    

    I don't know enough about mechanical engineering to comment on the
    causes of this weekend's two fatal accidents. Would these accidents
    have happened if the cars were still running in last year's
    configuration? I do not have the technical wherewithal to answer that
    question.
    One thing, however, is quite clear. Cornering speeds of modern F1 cars
    are much, much too high. The downforce and the lateral G force must be
    almost intolerable. Year on year the rules are changed in an effort to
    reduce speeds, but the cars just get faster and faster. Maybe some
    radical changes are needed.
    The accident in the pits was the inevitable result of the
    multiplication of pit stops this season. I dread to think what will
    happen at Monaco in a fortnight.
    I can't help agreeing with what Alain Prost said on French TV
    yesterday. The sport's governing body only cares about putting on a
    good show ('spectacle'). I think that TV rights and advertising revenue
    have become much more important than the welfare of drivers or
    spectators. Maybe this weekend's adverse publicicty will make them
    think again.
    Like him or loathe him, Senna was probably the greatest driver of his
    generation. He seemed to have calmed down over the last couple of years
    and now came across as quite an aimiable character. His death has
    stunned me. It's now Monday morning, and I still feel deeply sad and
    am able to think about little else. His disappearance will have the same
    devastating effect on the F1 fraternity as the death of Jim Clark did
    in 1968, and on the drivers in particular. Stupidly, I always felt that
    Senna, like Prost, was immortal.
    Sorry for rabbiting on like this, but I feel very sad this morning.
    
    Salut,                 
    Edward

    
    	Senna himself was foremost in critising the new rules. He said some
    months ago that he expected a much hihger accident rate this year and he
    wouldn't be surprised if something very nasty occured. As to whether
    the rule changes had a direct effect on either of the fatalities thisa
    weekend, its difficult to say. Ratzenburgers car clearly lost part of
    the front wing immediately before the accident and he lost control.
    Would he have had a better chance with wider tyres and ABS? The same
    goes for Senna. What is pretty clear (to anyone but FIA officials) is that if you
    suddenly remove a number of driver aids from the cars you're bound to
    reduce the safety.
    
    	I personally hold the FIA responsible, as Prost said, they're just
    interested in the money. The rule changes were supposed to make F1 more
    exciting and win back those fans who followed Nige to IndyCar. The
    changes have backfired and now F1 is faced with the lost of its 3
    greatest drivers of the late '80s early 90's (Senna, Mansel, Prost) in
    the space of a year. Probably complacency at having had no race
    fatalities for a dozen years, inspite of some horrific crashes (Berger,
    Donnelly, Warwick...). In my mind the only way to improve both the
    spectacle and the safety is to construct new courses where the is
    plenty of runoff area and plenty of overtaking opportunities.
    Regardless of how strong the cars are (Senna's cockpit appeared to be
    more or lest unscathed), the opportunity of catastrophic head and neck
    injury will remain until the wall are removed.
    
    	A tragic end to a great driver. The race should have been abondoned
    after Ratzenburger's death. Barichello, who looked to have the worst
    crash of the lot, must be the luckiest guy alive in F1. Any more news
    on the mechanics?
    
    JBG  8.(

    Apparently a number of prominent people, including Lauda and Berger,
    did try to get the race stopped. Their pleas seem to have fallen on
    deaf ears.

    I find myself numbed by the death Mr. Senna.  While I have not been his
    biggest fan, no one can debate that he had an untouchable ability
    to move an F1 car around a track.   More ironically, there were only
    two seasons he did not win a race; the year of his debut and this year.
    Alas, he died what he did best... leading a race.
    
    This is a tragic loss and the only persons responsible are Mosley and
    Eccelstone, damn them!
    
    
    Dale
    
    

A few questions:

	1.  Derek Daly of ESPN asked the obvious question:  why were there no 
	    tires in the areas where Berger's accident and Ratzenberger's
	    and Senna's deaths occurred?  Tires are known to be the best 
	    absorbers of forces in an impact in racing and that area was clearly
	    suspect given the high speeds, etc.

	2.  How would ABS have affected the Ratzenberger and Senna accidents?
	    Senna's car did not slow perceptibly and because of the loss of the
	    front wing, it is impossible to analyze Ratzenberger's.  The same
	    could be asked of Barichello's accident.

	3.  Why did the rule changes not accout for the ABSORPTION of lateral 
	    G forces in the event of an accident?  CART made the adjustment
	    after Dr. Tramiel noticed that if the tub of the car remained intact
	    a driver would undergo serious injuries if his body absorbed ALL of
	    the force of a head on impact at around 100 km/h.  He recommended
	    that the cars be designed with "crushability" in mind and CART
	    made the necessary changes.  Thus, the mere fact that their tubs
	    remained intact implied that Ratzenberger's and Senna's bodies 
	    absorbed the forces thus causing their deaths.  [On a personal note,
	    I had a near fatal accident in 1989 when my BMW M5 hit black ice
	    and hit a barrier at 70m.p.h.  I was wearing a seatbelt and the 
	    car's frame remained fairly intact but my body absorbed the impact
	    to the point where my injuries included a separated aorta, severely
	    traumatized and collapsed lungs, 6 crushed vertebrae, 22 rib 
	    fractures, broken shoulders, etc.  Amazingly, my entire lower body
	    (like Senna's) suffered no injuries.  I fell into into the 
	    proverbial deep sleep coma for two weeks.  Luckily, I avoided any
	    brain damage or paralysis and have had no major neurological
	    problems.  While this was not 300 km/h in an F1 car, it was eerily
	    similar to Senna's accident.  I have no memory of the accident.]

	4.  Why did the FIA not heed the call for protection of the driver's
	    head and neck in the tub of a F1 car?  With the exception of the
	    roll bar, there is really no protection for the exposed area of a
	    driver's body.  More specifically, there is no stabilizer of the
	    head and the neck.  In the face of the Alesi and Lehto accidents,
	    this should surely have been an issue prior to Barichello's,
	    Ratzenberger's and Senna's accidents.  Note that many CART drivers
	    wear helmet straps to ensure that their head does not snap severely
	    in any direction upon impact.  Al Unser Jr. pioneered this trend.

	5.  Why did Ecclestone insist on continuing the race after strong 
	    protests by Berger and others?  This guy is out of control!!!

I strongly feel that in recent memory, Alain Prost was the only driver who had
an eye towards safety - in direct defiance of F1's wishes.  I respected his
decision not to race in Adelaide a few years ago under dreadful conditions. 
[Ironically, Senna criticized Prost for his actions at that time - even though
Senna, the acknowledged rainmeister, was seen pleading with officials to stop a
recent rain-plagued race.]  It is sad that F1 drivers need a death to occur (in
this case 2 deaths in 2 days) before they act in their own interests.

It will be days before I recover from this deep sense of loss at the death of
Ayrton Senna.  It will also be days before I recover from the immediacy with
which Senna brought me closer to the trauma which I suffered - by seeing his
accident live on TV.  F1 will take an even longer time recovering from the loss
of one of its truly great and brilliant drivers ...

				-- Carlos.

    re.533
    
    Good note!
    
    One point crossed my mind as I read it.. I wonder, if Senna had died 
    during the practice session, if the race would have gone on? I think
    not. I think the sick thing is, because Ratzenberger is relatively 
    unknown, Ecclestone thought he could get away with murder. He was wrong!
    
    I mourn the deaths of both these drivers, both are tragic. Senna will
    be missed by millions, Brazil I heard have announced 3 days of official
    mourning -  what a magnificent jesture! I cant imagine any other
    country in the world making the same jesture for a fellow countryman.
    
    Al. 

RE: .533

It's not clear that a tire barrier would be a good idea at that point in 
the track.  The runoff area is short enough there that a tire barrier might 
instead cause the car to bounce off the tires and back across the track, 
possibly into oncoming traffic.

This is not to say that the corner should be left as it currently is.  I'm 
merely pointing out that tire barriers are not a panacea for this 
situation.

--PSW

What was the official finishing order for 5th and 6th in San Marino?  ESPN 
reported Katayama 5th and Hill 6th, but I've also seen reports showing Hill 
5th and Katayama 6th.

--PSW

    Terrible week-end !
    
    Reminds me of 1968 - Jim Clark - and later when Depailler lost the car
    under full speed at Hockenheim. Another lesson that we haven't learnt
    was Berger's terrible crash exactly at the same place at Tamburello at
    Imola.
    
    Ratzenberger's accident reminds me of Jim Clark's because they both
    were caused by a mechanical failure resulting from a previous 'contact'
    with another car.
    
    Senna's accident is an exact remake of Berger's accident. Has anything
    broken, was it an undetected puncture ? It will be difficult to know.
    
    In both cases one thing is unacceptable: why do we see portions of a
    circuit without any safety devices at all ? 
    
    Look at Tamburello curve: it is slightly banked, on the track side is a
    gentle slope going downwards with some grass, then a flat concrete road
    and ... a concrete wall. Lots of people think that it's not possible to
    move off track there, so why bother ? But a few years ago we've had the
    Berger's accident. What has been done in the meantime in case another
    Berger runs at full speed into the wall ?   
    
    In those accidents there are 2 separate parts:
    
    - losing control
    - stopping the car
    
    What we've seen tells me that Ratzenberger and Senna were definitely
    unable to stop their cars (or even slowing down). No nets, fences, sand 
    or gravel traps were available ... Why ?
    
    Racing will go on, but without Senna it will be some time before we
    fully enjoy watching F1. Just like in 1968 ...  

    A few points of interest from this weekends disaster. After
    Ratzenbergers death, Bernie spent awhile trying to convince David
    Brahbam to race on Sunday. Bernie said that it would make for a better
    race if he would drive. This proves that Bernie is more concerned about
    the race spectacle than the safety of the drivers.
    
    I did a little math after watching the Senna crash. If his head weighs
    30lbs. and the crash impact was 60gs. his head at impact would have
    weighed 1800lbs. The neck stucture is not set up to support 1800lbs.
    Also his brain at impact was traveling 185mph. At the point of impact
    the brain is smashed against the skull at a terrible force. There is no
    way Senna could have survived this crash unless the force of impact
    could have been reduced.
    
    This is a terrible moment in F1. There needs to be a driver safety
    council formed ASAP! The sport of motorsport racing would be greatly
    improved if Bernie was not involved any more.
    
    My two cents worth:
    Steven

    Sorry to take issue with you about tragedies, but Jim Clark's fatal
    accident was not caused from having contact with another racer.  He may
    have run over some debris left by someone else, but he did not have
    contact with anyone else.  The recent edition of Jim Clark Remembered 
    now titled "The Legend Lives On" gives a pretty full statement by the
    "official accident investigator" who thinks one of his tires had a slow
    initially, imperceptible leak.  I have read everything I can find about
    Clark's accident and no other racer has ever admitted having contact
    with him during that race.
    
    You are right that lessons have not been learned.  Now, do Max and
    Bernie have the balls to ban wings or force circuit owners to make
    safety modifications?  I hate to say it but I doubt it.

On the news today, they said the FIA are to mount  a full investigation
into Senna's accident.

Poor Ratzenberger didn't merit a full investigation...

How long is it since F1 had no active world champions, if ever?

Peter.

    Prior to the race Adrian Newey and Williams made some major
    modifications to the FW16.  1:  The centre line of the front axle was
    moved back to shorten the wheelbase and put more weight on the front
    wheels.  This would give the front of the car more bite.  2:  The front
    wing was repositioned to stop the car from being too pitch sensitive
    when entering corners.
    
    Schumacher's in-car camera showed Senna's car smoothly cornering left
    then suddenly twitch right towards impact.
    
    Damon Hill showed great courage getting back into the car, not knowing
    the cause of the accident, much like Mansell did after Berger's firery
    crash.
    
    The Indianapolis Motor Speedway's most dangerous concrete wall was
    always the head of the pit wall seperating the pit and the track.  This
    was improved with huge styrofoam blocks to absorb any impact.  A
    similar styrofoam wall could have greatly helped both Senna and
    Ratzenberger.
    
    Safety improvements I would like to see:
    1:   Build a pit wall and limit crew over the wall
    2:   Improve run off areas and crash absorbtion at tracks (tyres
         barrier, styrofoam, sand & gravel etc.)
    3:   Crash deformable tub surrounds
    4:   Smaller wings and bigger tyres
    
    I know this may start to look like Indy, but form follows function.  
    
    Lesley
    

    Hello all,
    
     I am a new noter/reader to this conference, and I'd just like to
    express my feelings of sadness over this weekends tragedies at San
    Marino. As I'm sure millions of us did, I watched, horrifed at the
    accident that claimed the life of Ayrton Senna. I must admit that
    after having seen the replay of Ratzenburger's crash and subsequent
    death, I could hold little hope for Ayrton as he sat, motionless in
    the remains of the Williams. I could'nt understand why it took so 
    long for the medical crew to arrive at the accident seen, although
    it seems that there was not much anyone could've done. It will take
    us all a good while to sort out our feelings about loosing two drivers
    in the same season-let alone two drivers in the same weekend. Then
    there was the pit incident injuring, I think, five pit crew; the
    spectators injured from the flying debris from the crash at the start.
    
    I have just received my tickets to the Canadian GP-my first GP-and my
    exitement had been building steadily, but now, substantially dampened
    by the events of this weekend. I'll still go, and probably enjoy it, 
    but will deeply miss seeing one of the best F1 pilots in the number 2
    Williams, hard charging,in his Damn the torpedoes. Full speed ahead 
    style. I'll admit that I usually pulled for Prost, but damn, could
    Senna give some exciting racing, especially in the wet. He had trully
    amazing skill, courage, determination for his profession. 
    
     I don't mean to be ramblin' on but I don't really have anyone around
    here to talk to about this sport I have developed quite a passion for.
    There is not much intrest here in Alabama for F1. If you're not into
    football (the oblong kind), basketball, baseball or NASCAR, your pretty
    much on your on. So, thanks for listening. 
    
    Lamenting
    Mark 
    
    
    
    
    

    I didn't think I could write here after the past weekend. But shock
    becomes a dull ache and sadness. I still well up inside when I read
    about what happened or think about my memories of Senna like the first
    lap at Donnington, or the signed Nacional hat he sent my wife. It was
    rather chilling that after Roland's crash on Saturday we were going to
    friends for the evening and my wife said that if it had been Ayrton she
    could not have gone.
    
    We were at Thruxton on Monday, timing, and racing went on, if rather
    subdued. It was good to get back into things right away.
    
    What really hurt was Mosely saying how it definately couldn't have been
    the new regulations. HOW DOES HE KNOW? All other parties are being
    sensible and sober and waiting 'til they really know what happened, but
    he was just a typical lawyer covering his back. Maybe next time we'll
    have a refuelling fire to add a few more gouls to the viewing figures
    for him and Bernie.
    
    F1 will never be the same for me or my wife. I've gone through it
    before with Clark, Rindt and Gilles but she idolised Ayrton above
    everyone. I'll never forget her standing in a Silverstone grandstand
    full of Mansell-ites cheering Senna every lap. But we will find a new
    hero, but not to replace Ayrton.
    
    I just wish Mark Saxby and I could still be having arguments about him
    in the years to come.
    
    Paul

    One question being asked is whether Senna picked up something after the
    debacle on the starting grid.  The thought is that there may have been
    residual debris even after the clean-up, which gave him a slow
    puncture.

    Well there's nothing to add to what's been said so eloquently in here
    already - a very sad weekend for the sport. I've been watching both of
    those drivers in the UK over the years, and remember Senna (Senna da
    Silva as he was then) back when he was driving in Formula Ford in the
    early 80s.
    
    One thought - like several of the people in this conference who were
    watching the race "live" I couldn't understand why the marshalls
    appeared to be doing nothing for Senna at first, but I realised that
    they were correctly waiting for Syd Watkins to arrive in the medical
    car. This meant that the first person to deal directly with the driver
    was a professor of neuro-surgery, although I guess it was too late in
    any case.
    
    

    I think that, since Philippe Streiff's accident in testing in Brazil,
    marshalls have strict instructions as to the handling of seriously
    injured or unconscious drivers.
    Remember that Streiff is now wheelchair-bound. He was "mishandled" by
    well-intentioned but medically incompetent marshalls after an accident
    in testing in Brazil.
    I thought that the emergency services at Imola were magnificent, just
    as they were after Berger's accident in 1989.
    
    Edward

    >>Looking at the in-car shots from Schumi's Benneton, I'm sure that I saw
    >>a shower of sparks shoot from the rear of the Williams just before it
    >>left the track. Maybe the cars always bottom at that point? Did anyone
    >>else see that?
    
    I saw those as well. I also noticed that when he went straight on there
    was no apparent breaking from Senna, which will be interesting to see
    what the conclusions of the Williams and FIA investigations are.
    
    Ratzenberger's death, unfortunately seems to have been overshadowed by
    Senna's which must be awful for his family.
    
    Greg
                            

    On the marshalls at Imola. I was amazed that they did not support
    Barrichello's head/neck before they pushed car back onto it's wheels. 
    He could have received a severe injury.
    
    John.

    I agree with -1 on Barichello. They let the car go over with a heck of
    a thump. I know they wanted to get it the right way up quickly but that
    was bad. However, in the Senna and RR incidents they were exemplary.
    
    I have now read some more comments from Mr Mosely saying that drivers
    aren't interested in safety just having the fastest car. He even said
    give them a car that is highly dangerous and a car that is safe but 5
    secs a lap slower, they will chose the fast one. If they are not, it is
    because of the amazing accidents that have been survived in the past
    few years, Donnelly, Zanardi, Blundell, Andretti, Verstappen etc. But
    Brundle was quoted as saying that nowhere near enough thought was given
    to head and neck protection around the cockpit.
    
    I used to think Balestre was bad, but I'm getting less and less
    comfortable with Mosely. He's done very little about safety to
    spectators at Rallies, blatantly puts them at risk with F1 refuelling
    and now slags off drivers after two get killed.
    
    Paul

Until a full investigation is carried out it is pointless to speculate (as ALL
the daily newspapers have done) about the causes of the accident. It is pure
folly to suggest that the banning of driver aids contributed to either fatality
at this stage. Whilst I too am disturbed by Mosley's handling of F1 he is right
in one respect. Driver aids in F1 are there to make the car go quicker, not to
make them safer. Also if you speak to the teams, only a couple had these so
called aids working properly, the rest had cars that were in fact more dangerous
still because the aids only worked sometimes. Several people have commented
about the circuit safety and with particular reference to bergers accident. Two
years prior to this Picquet had an almost identical accident there and was lucky
to walk away with a broken ankle. Concrete walls at a high speed cicuit with no
other form of retardation was asking for trouble. True, tyres are not a panacea,
but I bet Rubens Barrichello was very grateful for their existence. Worse there
was absolutely no gravel trap at either fatality site. Cars will always crash,
what is important is to slow them down sufficiently so that they hit the solid
object slow enough for the occupant to survive. That is clearly not the case at
Imola, it also raised the question about the use of high kerbs, the Jordan being
launched several feet in the air, enough to project the car several yards over
any method of speed retardation facility. The pit lane incident was also a
reminder that there are still far too many posers in the pit and the cars are
travelling too quickly. Take a leaf out of NASCARS book. It only took one
incident and the speed limits are strictly enforced, as is the number of people
over the pit wall, it's obvious that there is still far too much money tied up
with VIP pit passes.
Unfortunately, as is always the case it takes two or three deaths to make the
moneygrabbers do anything about safety.
I want to forget about this weekend as quickly as possible,

I also wish to express my great sorrow about the horrid events of the 
weekend ...... and to add a few comments of my own.

The "Politics".

I am disgusted that so little attention has be given to the grave 
consequences of bits of F1 cars getting into areas populated by the 
paying public - For the genuine good of motor sport this must be the 
number one priority.

I am also disgusted and amazed at the instant assertions by the FIA 
reps that the 1994 rule changes have made no difference to the likely 
cause of two fatale accidents. - The re-introduction of  refuelling has 
reduced the typical fuel load and therefor the variation in ride height. It 
follows that in order to be competitive the cars must be 
aerodynamically trimmed to a "sweet spot" that gives the best down 
force to drag ratio. It is then inevitable that such cars are very ride high 
/ pitch sensitive. That this situation is not in any way influenced by the 
removal of active suspension (which is precisely intended to address 
these issues) is simply beyond belief.

There is no will by the governing authorities to slow the cars down. 
This is because there is an imperative to have F1 as the fastest cars 
currently racing (at least on "road" circuits). Making the kind of 
accidents which happened last weekend survivable will require that F1 
cars are slowed to a performance level lower that the current F3000 
cars. It follows that a significant reduction in F1 car performance will 
require a corresponding reduction in all other formulae. There is no 
will to take this step.

Patrick Head (William's Design Chief) has repeatedly and publicly 
suggested means of dramatically slowing the cars down. Yet those 
wonderful folks who's new rules have made the cars faster  (by dividing 
most races into three part sprints - with the aid of refuelling), refuse to 
even talk to the man.

The Senna Accident.

Looking at the material available it is very difficult to see anything 
definite that went wrong. For what it's worth the in car pictures I think 
showed a slight turn right - not just a straight on direction. Other 
footage I think shows both front wheels turned left as expected. 
however the rear left looks a little ovaloid. It is this coupled with the 
sparks previously mentioned which leads me to the conjecture that 
there was a left rear suspension failure at the lower rear inboard joint. 
The wheel adopted a slight toe out attitude that rear end steered the car 
right into the wall. The accident was not survivable.

    In an interview with Schumacher after the race, Schumacher mentioned
    that he saw Senna's car's rear end move downward unexpectedly which
    caused the sparks and then the accident.  
    
    It's amazing how we can find the suitcase that contained a bomb that 
    blew a plane up over Scotland.  Now if only they can figure out what 
    really happened and make sure it doesn't happen again.
    
    reagrds,
    JP
    PS it is going to be very sad watching Monte Carlo without Senna
    driving

    The investigation of the accidents is not all 'watching the video'.
    All F1 cars have a 'Black box' just like aircraft do.  So many
    of the bits of information will be available to the investigators.
    
    (Note the capitalisation of Black box -- a Mr Black invented the
    device)

    Apparently, Senna insisted on inspecting the track at the point where
    Ratzenberger's accident occured on Saturday. On Sunday morning he
    received an official letter of reprimand from the FIA stating that he
    was neither competent not authorized to do so.
    Further to the accident, neither Senna nor Schumacher took part in the
    final practice session.
    
    Edward

    Gentlemen - I rest my case. If the FIA consider the finest driver of
    his generation, and possibly of all time as unfit to inspect the track
    he is about to race on, we might as well all go back to watching club
    racing.
    
    Surely they have recently proved their incompetence with decisions
    like:
    
     - ignoring Ferrari's flouting of the rules at Aida
     - checking for traction control by "listening to the engine note" !!
     - breaking the agreed procedures for changing regulations
     - having done so, neglecting to make them rational by allowing one
       team to block the will of the other 13 (Ferrari wanting to keep
       re-fueling)
    -  issuing knee-jerk "not our fault Guv" comments at totally
       inappropriate moments
    - allowing rule changes to be dictated by television audiences not
    safety (surely one of their prime responsibilities) of true engineering
    (Head's comments on reducing cornering speeds etc)
    
    I saw Senna leave to go to the site on Saturday, there appeared to be
    no histrionics, just a calm trip in the course car.
    
    Paul
    

    re: .552 about the angle of the left rear wheel . . . 
    
    I had taped the race on ESPN and replayed the accident frame-by-frame 
    and noticed a couple of frames where the car was headed off the track 
    while the left rear was pointing straight down the track right at the 
    camera.  Also, a few frames before that, before the car got noticeably 
    out of shape, I'm pretty sure I saw the right front lift quite high in 
    the air, which would also suggest a failure of the left rear
    suspension.
    
    It seems kind of morbid I guess to watch that scene over again, but I 
    perhaps wanting to know how a tragedy that this could happen is part 
    of dealing with the horror of it.
    
    While one might argue that the rule changes were not a direct cause of 
    this weekends accidents, I think that the short time the teams had to 
    implement the changes and pretty much totally redesign suspensions and 
    so forth resulted in insufficient testing and hence questionable 
    reliablility.
    
    Also, it seems that, if you want to slow the cars down and make them 
    more competitive, you would start with engine output instead of taking 
    away the technology that allows you to safely manage that output.
    
    Ken
    

    Talk about morbidity ...
    
    ... I also replayed the ESPN tape frame-by-frame.  I did not observe
    the changes stated by the previous noter.  However, after the car came
    to a stop, I observed a final twitch of Senna's head - almost as if the
    life had left his body.  I am convinced that Senna died at that point. 
    I believe that officials knew this but witheld information from the
    drivers in order that "the show would go on".  (Observe the body bag
    which was used to transport Senna's body to the helicopter.)
    
    I can't believe the extent to which I am depressed at this loss.
    
    				-- Carlos.
    
    P.S>	Unfortunately, US news media are not covering this item.
    		I caught a good montage of Senna's life on FR3 - along
    		with interviews of Jabouille and Alliot.
    

  I did not catch the whole article - I had just turned the radio on - but
someone in "authority" in F1 has apparently claimed that Senna's accident
was due to driver error. 

Sorry but this smacks of trying to cover their backs to me. I know that even 
Senna can make mistakes but I find this one hard to believe!

Ah well lets wait for the proper investigation - Wiolliams at least should 
provide some enlightenment I hope

    I heard a radio piece this morning in which some FIA chap said that
    only the top teams had had "driver aids" eg traction control. The other
    drivers had coped, though not been in with a winning chance. From what
    little I have seen or read it seems as if Senna's car may have
    mechanically failed. It did seem odd to be suggesting driver failure.
    
    Andrew

    The theory about driver error is all over the backs of some of the
    papers as well. A glance at the newstand suggests that they come from a
    comment from Patrick Head that the telemetry indicated a slight lift on
    the throttle which he then said would have caused loss of downforce.
    However, I could read nothing saying what caused the lift, and the
    article then went on to say that official Williams sources still
    confirm nothing about the cause.
    
    It seemed like a casual comment being built up by the uninformed press
    (the really cynical and bitter side of me, remembering the rabid
    criticism of Senna when he was battling with Mansell, has a slight
    feeling of trying to absolve Williams of blame - after all, Nige was
    all right)
    
    As for the FIA, I re-read some of Moseley's comments last night and
    continue to be amazed at the insensitivity and crassness of the man.
    Yes maybe some of the drivers would prefer to be ski-ing than talking
    about safety, but now is not the time to say it, nor is this the way to
    express his views. Shades of his father's style. He even treid to say
    that the driver-aid cars were faster - so how come Senna was inside
    Prost's time?
    
    The coverage on British TV has generally been very sensitive, and I
    have been surprised by the scale. It was still third story last night.
    I presume that the BBC will also put out a tribute program in the near
    future when Murray can get his mind back on the job.
    
    As for driver aids generally, with the exception of when they failed,
    they made the cars more predictable and hence more controllable. I just
    wish the FIA had listened to the engineers. If they want a proper,
    balanced view, get Head, Barnard, Oatley, Brawn etc to form a group to
    spec out new regulations with a specific set of objectives, eg reduce
    cornering speed by 20%, increase protection to neck and head, etc.
    
    Senna will be buried in Brazil tomorrow with full state honours.
    Williams are expected to have only one car at Monaco and have a new
    driver for Barcelona. I think it would be fitting for them to leave the
    pole slot empty at Monaco too.
    
    Paul

    
    Interesting interview in Yesterday's Telegraph with the owner of the
    Pacific team who thought that traction control, active suspension etc
    made things more dangerous for a number of reasons :-
    
    o	Only the top teams had them, so drivers for poorer teams (that did
    not have them) had to be prepared to take more risks to keep up.
    
    o	The aids encouraged drivers to drive quicker, therefore if anything
    went wrong the accident would be at a higher speed.
    
    o	If a problem occured with the aid, there was a chance that the car
    would become uncontrollable.
    
    
    
    Nigel                                                           
    

    For British based readers - note that the program on BBC2 at 14:20
    today that's billed as "Grand Prix" is going to be an Ayrton Senna
    tribute program. There's also something on "Sportsnight" tonight but I
    don't know if it's the same program.

    I heard on the radio that there is a posibility of the track owners, 
    Williams and the helmet manufacturers being sued for culpible homicide 
    ( I think ).
    
    	Terry

    This morning's L'Equipe has published two contradictory statements made
    by Williams staff. The first, which looks plausible and official,
    states that no comments will be made until the inquiry is over and all
    the info has been analyzed.
    
    The second quotes Patrick Head as saying that Senna made a mistake. The
    telemetrics show that he lifted off at a point where there is a change in
    road surface and the resulting loss in downforce sent the car straight on.
    I've no idea what the paper's sources are.
    
    This comment seems hasty and insensitive. It looks very much like Head
    and Williams attempting to avoid responsibility. I've never liked
    Williams and I think that Frank Williams is a naff team manager. I
    can't imagine anyone from Mclaren making comments like those at a time
    like this. Apparently, the Brazilian press has crucified the team.
    
    The circuit owners have been accused of "homocide by imprudence" and
    the circuit has been put under lock and key. Apparently both of these
    acts are formalities required by the on-going judicial enquiry. It
    would, IMHO, be absurd to take legal proceedings against the circuit
    owners, while the incompetent and irresponsible directors of the FIA
    get off scot free.
    
    Senna's body is lying in state. He will be buried tomorrow morning. For
    those of you in or around Paris, the Brazilian embassy is holding a
    memorial service at a church in the Avenue Marceau on Monday morning.
    
    Salut,
    Edward

    From The Daily Mail:
    
    Patrick Head (....) is alledged to have told a journalist in the
    immediate aftermath of Sunday's smash which shocked the world: "Ayrton
    made a mistake" 
    
    He is also said to have added: "We have checked the telemetry and Senna
    lifted his foot just at that place where the tarmac changes. That
    caused a loss of grip for the car"
    
    End Quotes
    
    Alledged? Sounds like stirring, but I actually empathise with Ed, I
    have never much warmed to Williams and Head either. But I'll keep an
    open mind.
    
    One other piece at the end of the article says that Gerhard Berger will
    make a statement today regarding his future in F1. I wouldn't be
    surprised if he quit, he hasn't looked that enthusiastic for a while,
    and was very depressed about Roland when Allard Kalf spoke to him on
    the grid on Sunday.
    
    Paul
    

    As mentioned a couple back, this is standard procedure in Italian law.
    If there is any investigation, and there is bound to be one, all parties
    involved are informed that they are being investigated.
    
    I don't know if things have changed in Italy, but after the von Trips
    accident at Monza, 1961, which involved contact with Jim Clark's Lotus,
    both Clark and Chapman were taking in for questioning each time they
    went to Monza for years afterwards.
    
    Re Patrick Head - according to a report I saw, immediately after the
    accident and after looking at the telemetary and talking to Schumacher
    he stated that Senna had lifted at the point where the road surface
    changes. The official Williams statement is that he didn't say that
    Senna had made a mistake, but just the fact that he had lifted for
    whatever reason.

    >> I am convinced that Senna died at that point
    
    Morbid comment follows:
    
    I noticed that EuroSport happenned to be zooming in on the stretcher as
    they moved Senna. I was horrified by the huge pool of blood that was
    under his body, if all that came from his head he must have been in a
    very bad state.
    
    What kind of tests are done on F1 helmets? 
    Surely they are designed to prevent these kind of high speed impacts?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg

        More for the morbid. A helmet may stop skull damage when you hit 
        you head at 165 MPH. It won't stop the damage that is caused by 
        your brain coming to an abrupt stop against the inside of your 
        skull. It could be that some debris hit Aryton's face.
        
        Simon

    To change tack away from this....
    
    From tonight's Evening Standard:
    
    Anne Bradshaw of Williams: "Patrick did say that from basic telemetry
    tests it appeared that Ayrton may have made an error. But he made the
    point that at that stage he had very little to go on. He is devastated
    that his comments have been misconstrued. The last thing he wants is to
    appear to be blaming Ayrton"
    
    
    Also is the article - another reference to Berger considering quitting,
    and to Pedro Lamy considering the same. Following quote from Brundle
    (who is continuing):
    
    "If you ask any driver if he has re-evaluated everything, he would be
    lying if he said No. We're normal people and of course we've sat down
    and said "Hang on a minute do we really want to do this?" At the end of
    the day you've got two choices to make. You either get out of the car
    right now, for good, or you get back in and drive it flat out"
    
    Exactly what I would have expected from Brundle, honest and to the
    point.
    
    Paul

    I presume you mean that he "clinically" died instantly. If that is the
    case, I am extremely glad for him, he suffered no pain. I too saw the
    movement in the cockpit, and agreed with John Watson that he was
    waiting for Syd Watkins to arrive. I just wish to dear god I had been
    right.
    
    Paul

I find these knee-jerk reactions to Williams and the FIA very distasteful. 
It seems that some people are judging a complex series of events from heresay
and the odd fact. By all means put forward your theories but before you condemn 
_anyone_ let's wait for the official enquiry to report!

Dave.

    Dave, I agree on Williams completely, but I cannot tolerate the
    instant justifications that Mosely is putting out. At grass roots
    level, motor sport is run for the benefit of the competitors and with
    their safety at the forefront. I mean, how big an audience would 8
    Slick 50 saloons running a 10 lap race at Thruxton generate?
    
    But, at F1, old WSPC and WRC levels, it seems that the FIA are often
    running the sport at the whim of the media and the sponsors, hence
    decisions like overlooking Ferrari's breach of the rules - that would
    have lost a third of the audience if they had banned them. If the FIA
    meeting comes up with rational, logical suggestions I will be the first
    to applaud them, but upto now, Mosely has done little to deserve any
    credit in the incident.
    
    Paul

    This afternoon FIA have called a big meeting in Paris with
    representatives from all interested parties: drivers, constructors,
    circuits, marshalls, press, ...
    
    On french radio this morning the FIA spokesman said that drastic
    decisions will be communicated for safety reasons.
    
    It is expected that refuelling stops will be banned for Monaco at
    least.
    
    Last night TF1 had a 'special F1' on 'after Imola' with the following
    people taking part in the discussion: Alain prost, Philippe Alliot,
    Philippe Streiff, Olivier Panis, Paul Belmondo, Gerard Larrousse,
    Jean-Pierr Jabouille, Jean-Pierre Beltoise, Johnny Rives (L'Equipe),
    Lionel Froissart (journalist, friend of Senna since karting era), ...
    They had a live videoconference with Max Mosley in London until the
    program came on the air (Mosley was reported to have left the studio).
    
    Everyone agreed that the refuelling stops did not add anything to the
    show but added a lot of risk. Alliot and Jabouille came up with an 
    interesting proposition to reduce the aerodynamic influence (downforce,
    speed, lateral g's): impose flat bottom up to the rear end, the current
    venturi produces an enormous downforce. Banning the wings would be a
    mistake: most cars would probably 400kph in straights .... There is
    another proposal on FIA's technical committee: replace the flat bottom
    by a stepped bottom, cancelling all sorts of aerodynamic flow and
    downforce.  

    RE: .573
    
    >>What kind of tests are done on F1 helmets? 
    >>Surely they are designed to prevent these kind of high speed impacts?
    
    Concerning the jockey who is in a bad way at the moment in the UK: On
    Sky News last night it was said that the helmets jockeys use are
    designed in such a way to have a cushion affect if they land on their
    head. It's a lot different going at 30 mph (or whatever a race horse
    travels at) to 200 - so I doubt if much could be done in the crash
    helmet department to cushion the blow.

    Regarding helmet design...
    
    If you're asking for the helmet to protect the driver then what you
    need is a helmet design which will absorb energy in such a way that the
    deceleration transmitted to the brain, within the skull, never exceeds
    the tolerable limit.
    
    From the world of aviation it seems that the brain will tolerate about
    9G without suffering permanent damage.
    
    So let's suppose that at the worst point the driver is travelling at
    just 60 mph.  Even at that speed you need about 13 feet of movement to
    bring the skull/brain safely to a standstill.
    
    Sorry people, but I don't think that's the job of the helmet designers.
    I think the solution starts with the monocoque/cockpit design.  It's
    got to collapse in a controlled manner to absorb the energy and so 
    contain the deceleration within survivable limits.
    
    Th other problem that _no_ helmet design can protect from is when the
    skull/brain are subject to rotational accelerations, by spinning or
    rolling the car, or from a glancing blow to the head.  As soon as the
    skull accelerates around the brain you've got problems -- the risk is 
    the brain gets torn lose within the skull.  Since neither brain or skull
    are spherical, damage is almost inevitable.

Have just read the notes on F1, very interesting to see that
everybody's views are so similar on the possible cause of the
incident and that they all display a willingness to change them.

Shame that the parties involved are too busy protecting their own
interests to adopt a similar stance. 

To finish I will say that like many I found Mr Senna to be a good 
'Bad Guy' who was to the last, what a F1 driver should be, a racer.

							G.P

    Senna's death has touched me like no other for a very long time. I was
    not able to talk about it until yesterday and then looked here in the
    notes file to learn how other feel. I must concur with Dave that the
    incriminating comments seem out of place. I believe they must come from
    the anger and frustration people feel at this tremendous loss and they
    feel the need to balme someone or something. I believe that we feel
    stronger about Senna than Ratzenburger because Senna had become the
    yardstick by which all F1 performance was measured. That, coupled with
    the fact that we had become lulled into thinking that the sport was
    "safe". It is, unfortunatly, not safe and probably never will be.
    
    I am not surprised that the lawyers are swarmming and threatening to
    sue whomever is neat at hand. It happens in the US all the time.
    Helmets are tested to regorous and ever-improving standards by the
    Snell Foundation (in Switzerland). In club racing, no one is allowed to
    race unless their helmet carries a recent Snell testing sticker. Older
    helmets are not allowed. No professional would race without the latest
    and safest helmet. But no helmet would have prevented Senna's injury.
    The rep[orted massive head injuries happened inside the helmet, not
    from intrusion. I would guess they happened because Senna's head made
    impact on the wall at more than 180 mph.
    
    I do not believe that the rule changes can be blamed for this. Look at
    Bergers accident at Monza (I think?) last year when his active
    suspension failed when he was exitiing the pits. He shot across the
    track, out of control, and it was good fortune that none of the three
    drivers coming down the straight hit him. Had that incident resulted in
    someone's death, there would be a hue and cry about banning active
    suspensions!
    
    I won't try to defend Max Mosely. But many of his comments that seem
    insensitive may (note: MAY) have been taken out of context. His
    comments on drivers' attitudes matches what I know about the men that
    pilot F1 cars. A few notes back someone quoted Martin Brundle. Was his
    comment insensitive? I don't think so. It was realistic. If Berger, or
    anyone else, quits it is simply because they cannot (and should not) go
    on.
    
    As for pit stops being unsafe, I agree. Not fuel stops, just pit stops.
    F1 pits, with their near total lack of control, have been unsafe for
    years. Alboreto's incident was not caused by refuelling. Look at the
    hundreds of people who are in the pit lane with no apparent reason. The
    FIA should look at the controls that Indycar puts on pits, their
    contstruction, and access.
    
    I guess that I am trying to be realistic about this situation. I
    believe that we F1 fans had been fortunate that tragedy had not struck
    recently. It all came home on one weekend. I hope that the FIA Safety
    Committee evaluates head and neck protection but I don't know how much
    can be done when cars are going 200 mph. No matter how sophisticated
    and well-tested elements are, they can break. Racing in general, and F1
    will never be "safe". Risk will always be there.
    
    Paul

re.586:

Well said Paul.

Dave.

    Prior to active ride in F1, the cars where being sprung stiffer and
    stiffer. As a result of this technology, aerodynamics have become super
    critical. Since the ban on active ride the cars have become like karts.
    With little or no suspenion travel and the present state of aero-
    dynamics the cars have become very pitch sensitive. 
    
    If the rear suspension on Senna's car failed, that would drop the rear
    end of the car enough to upset the front aerodynamics. With the upset
    of aerodynamics on the front end you would lose a fair amount of down
    force on the front wing. Because of this loss you lose the ability to
    steer. At the speed Senna was traveling thru the curve and the sudden
    loss of steering there is nothing he could have done. Unfortunetly he
    was just along for the ride.
    
    It has taken two driver deaths for the FIA to hopefully get its act
    together. Somehow they need to slow the cars down in the corners.
    There are many ways to do this but which ever way they do it they
    need to think out the consequences. I also feel that they need to
    involve all the team engineers.
    
    I deeply wish these deaths would not have happened. I hope that
    something positive comes out of this tragedy and that as fans we are
    once again reminded of how brave and skillful these drivers are. They
    have provided us with so much pleasure thru the years.
    
    
    Steven
    

    The FIA have just announced that it will implement new rules for pit
    safety. 
    
    1. Bends at the entrance and exits of pit lanes to slow the cars down.
    2. Only mechanics working on the cars allowed in the pit lanes.
    3. Pit stops must pre-planned(specific laps) with the FIA prior the
       start of the race.

    Also, the FIA will try to come up with a way to reduce fuel flow rate
    to the engines so that it will reduce power output.
    
    I have a problem with the first rule in that it will put slow cars
    coming out of the pits trying to merge with the fast cars on the track.
    Again the FIA is reacting in a knee-jerk fashion. When will they think
    before they act!
    
    Steven
    
    

    The third rule won't work either if one thinks about it...
    
    Laurie.

               FIA TO IMPROVE PIT-LANE SAFETY FOR MONACO GP
         [Daily Telegraph (UK) - 5 May 1994, without permission]
    
    	Max Mosley, the International Motoring Federation president,
    yesterday announced three new safety measures designed to reduce the
    hazards of the potentially dangerous, overcrowded and narrow Monaco pit
    lane before next weekend's grand prix.
    	As FIA began the difficult task of repairing the damage following
    the San Marino Grand Prix, Mosley told a crowded media conference in
    Paris that immediate priority was being given to the condition of the
    Monaco circuit in the wake of the double tragedy at Imola last weekend.
    	As Ayrton Senna's body lay in state in Sao Paulo, yesterday's
    emergency meeting addressed both the causes of the accidents at Imola
    and every means of avoiding further catastrophes.
    	Mosley said mini-chicanes would be introduced at each end of the
    pit road at Monaco, all mechanics not involved in a pit stop would be
    banned from the pit lane, and a rota, to be drawn in advance by lots,
    to prevent several cars choosing to refuel simultaneously.
    	The moves follow a pit-lane accident at Imola in which a Ferrari
    mechanic was injured when Michele Alboreto's Minardi Ford lost a wheel
    following a pit-stop.
    	Mosley added that further action could soon be announced to reduce
    the speed, power and downforce of the cars and the risks of injury to
    drivers' heads and necks.
    	He said the FIA had been studying for some time the possibility of
    introducing a fuel flow meter to reduce the ratio of power for fuel
    consumption.
    	In relation to security of drivers, Mosley said the FIA were
    studying the introduction of air bags and new types of helmets,
    particularly as it appeared that both Senna and Roland Ratzenberger may
    have died after their heads hit the walls at Imola.
    	The exact circumstances of their deaths will not be known for at
    least a month, according to Mosley.
    	He said a detailed inspection of the Williams-Renault and
    Simtel-Ford cars could not begin until they were returned to their
    teams after being released by the Italian authorities.  This could take
    up to a month but he expected to discover the exact causes of the
    drivers' accidents, "with a high degree of certainty".
    	When he was questioned about the part the now-infamous Italian
    circuit may have played in last weekend's tragic events, Mosley
    revealed that it had been inspected in 1990 when none of the senior
    drivers involved had recommended tyre walls either at Tamburello or
    Villeneuve where they perished.
    	He promised, however, that Imola would be very carefully examined
    as soon as possible and again criticised Alain Prost for his
    unsubstantiated criticisms on safety matters.
    	Mosley described the five accidents at Imola, saying Rubens
    Barrichello had simply gone too fast and hit a kerb.  He suggested that
    Ratzenberger's car had suffered damage when it went off on the lap
    prior to his fatal accident and said that Senna had "stepped out
    slightly" on the lap before he crashed.
    	He was alarmed clearly by the accident at the start because a wheel
    flew into the crowd over the 3.9 metre high fence.  "It is difficult to
    know how to keep a tyre under control when that happens," he said,
    promising an investigation.
    	Asked if the FIA had considered cancelling either the championship
    or the Monaco Grand Prix, Mosley confirmed both options had been
    quickly rejected.
    	He said that concern over the walls related to the high angle of
    the collisions, but added: "We must not lose sight of one thing and
    that is there is always a risk of accidents.  We must be careful of
    over-reacting.  Imola was the most horrible weekend any of us have been
    through."
    
    
                     BERGER WILL RACE ON SAY FERRARI
    
    Runours that Gerhard Berger is considering retiring from grand prix
    racing were dismissed yesterday by his team manager at Ferrari.
    
    (the article goes on to describe the speculation of who will take
    Senna's and Ratzenberger's places)  "...Nigel Mansell appears resolved
    to staying in America...Alain Prost is unlikely to relish returning in
    such circumstances...few other outstanding drivers present themselves. 
    Italian veteran Ricardo Patrese appears to be the most likely
    candidate.  ...Simtek team, they will run only one car at the Monaco
    Grand Prix on May 15 and will only begin consideration of a replacement
    after the race."

    Re -.1
    
    A couple of questions come to mind - is it only excess mechanics that
    are being removed from pit-lane? What about all the other unnecessary
    people, pass-holders, photographers and poseurs?
    
    If the FIA are seriously worried about pit-stop safety they should
    question why they have caused at least a doubling of the number of
    pit-stops for (IMHO) no gain to the sport. In fact reverting to the
    no-fuelling rule would also have a slowing effect, especially in the
    manic early stages of the race. I guess it would look too much like
    admitting to an error, which does not seem to be something that Max is
    about to do.  
    
    

I think the FIA has to take full responsibility for the tragic
events last weekend. I have never been impressed with Mosley or
Balestre. The FIA is ultimately responsible for enforcing rules 
and ensuring safety. Period.  When Mosley trots out incredibly
tactless comments  about racers just wanting the fastest not 
safest car the obvious reply is that, even if this were true,
it is obviously the FIA's responsibility to be even more safety
concious.  

The first GP I went to was in '84 at Brands Hatch. The driver
that impressed me the most was Senna in the Toleman. I was thinking
of going to Monaco this year. Now I just don't have the heart.


/Paul.

    
    This really angers me. Fuel stops by pre-declared rota completely
    remove any element of strategy and negate any supposed benifit from 
    fuel stops. Moseley seems to have no respect from the drivers who 
    form the core of the sport he makes his money from. His criticism
    of Prost given the circumstances show that he is more interested in 
    politics that real progress towards safety.
    
    This past weekend was a dark one, but I fear that nothing will be done
    over the next few months, and I worry about what could happen at
    Hockenheim.
    
    Terry