Conference terri::cars_uk

    Hi,
    
       It is possible to get a booklet from your Renault Dealer with all
    the possible after sale options, but some or rather most of the extra
    equipment on the TXE variant must be fitted at the factory. It may be
    possible to get central door locking fitted to the TR (this is three
    door?) the booklet quotes around 40 pounds for this, also the trim in
    the bumpers could be repalced with the trim with the chrome insert ala
    the GTS and higher models. The goodies such as electric windows require
    new door trims and its priced around 300 pounds if its ordered with the
    car from new.
    
    
        A possible source is perhaps  Sports Car Breakers at the roundabout 
    beside the Uniroyal plant, they used to have a lot of Accident damaged
    cars and write offs they stripped and sold parts from.
    
        The last time I was in this yard was approx 2 years ago and then
    the were selling things like R5GTT alloys etc.
    
    
        hope this was helpful.
    
                              Alan.
    
    p.s  My  R19 is three door GTS, which could be doing with some nicer
    trim too!!
        

    Alan,
         Thanks you have been most helpfull,will look into what i can do to
    my plain jane TR.
                          Katrina 

    Hi Kat,
    
           Some more info, the "Le Sport" limited Edition has a boot lid or
    tail gate spoiler, It may be possible to get this from the dealer to
    add to your car. I've been in Southern Ireland Quite alot recently and
    over there you can gat the basic van( three door saloon with filled
    rear side window) with the tail gate spoiler. So it must be available
    as a seperate part. 
    
           Perhaps you could treat your car to a nice set of alloys, even
    the optional 14" ones from Renault for at  wait for it  130 pounds,
    these are the same as the 21 TXI alloys I think.
    
    
           Do you have the extended warranty or is the car just new, either
    way check that modifications can be made without rendering it useless.
    
    
           Another helpful hint. It is possible to get clear protective
    plastic from accessory shops. It is advisable to put this on the
    leading edge of the bonnet as soon as possible to avoid those horrid 
    stone chips that it is prone to. I think it is called something along
    the lines of "Defender" and cost approx  6 pounds. I will post more
    details next week .
    
    
                           Alan.     

    
    Hi All,
    
           Not sure if anyone reads this note but since its the right note
    it will have to do.  Over the last month my R19 has been bothered with
    a persistant flooding problem. The first time it happened was the night
    before its last service( 18000 but odometer was reading 19500), the car
    had sat all day in the car park from approx 8:00 am to 4:30pm. When I
    left for home the car started fine with choke and managed to get to the
    top of the car park and then die. To cut a long story short the RAC
    were call and they arrived and managed to get it started, only after
    pumping a couple of gallons of petrol out onto the car park surface.
    
           Since it was going in for a service I wasn't to worried
    assumming that it would be fixed after the garage being instructed that
    it had occurred. The sevice was carried out and paid for and the
    flooding problem was corrected(so I was told). Since this service it
    has happened another three times each time from a cold start where the
    car has been sitting over night or most of the day.
    
           The car was given to the garage yesterday to attempt to discover
    the cause of the problem and on phoning to find out if they had come up
    with anything I was told they had a look at it taken the jets out an
    cleaned them and reset the CO level that was seriously out of
    adjustment. Can this happen in the short space of one month, I
    personally think it was not adjusted at the last service and only now
    has it been corrected.  
                Well after getting the car the garage announce that they
    would like me to test the car to see if it was any better before they
    would charge me for this work!!!!! 
           The car was driven 7 mile home by my girlfriend since I had to
    borrow my fathers car to get to work and she said she felt no
    difference in the running of the car. I was welding a Beetle for Rik
    the Mod of the air cooled conference last night and after it got to
    late and dark I decided to test the Renault and take a run to see the
    girlfriend, the car would not start without choke after having sat from
    just after 5 to 9 at night and on the short distance between houses
    approx 2 miles the the car flooded again just a couple of hundred yards
    from home!!! Its a good job I've started carrying some tools in the car
    something I resent having to do with such a young car.   
           
           The car is only 14 months old and for the first 13 months it was 
    absolutely fine no starting or flooding problems. Either my style of
    driving has changed drastically over the last month, I have suddenly
    lost all ability to start a car without flooding it or something has
    changed or failed in the carb.
    
           Does any one have any suggestions, I myself feel that the carb
    is overfilling due to a problem of some kind with the float, these
    would be mch appreciated by myself and I could possibly pass it on to 
    the foreman of the workshop how would appear unable to address the
    problem affectively.   
    
    
                        Alan. 

    No experience with R19's, but I did have re-curring flooding with an
    old Saab. This was a sticking carb float, it was not rising properly,
    and thus not shutting the needle valve. could be 
    the float
    the needle valve it controls
    if your system recirculates when this shuts, the return pipe may be 
    blocked
    
    Richard

    
    Car magazine has the first (to my knowledge) test of the Renault 19 16
    valve.
    
    They have tested it against the Rover 216 GTi Twin Cam and the VW Golf 
    GTi 16 valve in a 'Giant Test'. The car they had was a French
    registered left hooker, as the 19 16valve isn't expected here until
    January.
    
    The car looks more purposeful than the ordinary 19 (in much the same
    way as the 5GTT looks moreso than the ordinary 5) with subtlish body 
    panels in colour coded form. The engine bay looks good (perhaps not
    as good a Vauxhall 16 valve engine, but only perhaps), and the car 
    tested had terribly gaudy (hoepfully to be toned down for the UK) 
    versions of the fantastic Renault 5GTT seats so admired by everyone!
    
    Performance is good (0-60 in 7.7 seconds and 135ish mph top, with
    healthy mid-range acceleration too) and handling is praised although
    the tail apparently can step out in the wet (it is described as being
    progressive and easy to control).
    
    You either love or loathe the 19's shape (which to my mind is a prettier
    version of the dumpy Astra - not great, but ok), but if the car IS
    available at the suggested price of around 12k it will be a real
    bargain with electric sunroof, windows and central locking as well as 
    a trip computer.
                    
    I'll be test driving one when the local dealers get a demonstrator, but
    if it's as good as they say, I'll find it hard to justify another 5k
    for a Calibra 16v with inferior handling and performance even if it is a 
    better built car.    
                   
    Mark

    Re.6
     
    I saw one of these on the M3 last week with trade plates.I was very
    impressed with the look of the car.This one was a nice dark metallic
    blue,and it had some impressive wheels.
    The only reason I noticed it was I spotted the 16 valve badge on the
    back,apart from that the styling is quite restrained,if the car
    performs as you say I believe they will be worth taking a closer look
    at.
    
    steve
    

        
    Will the 19 16v be only offered as a hatchback or will the Chamade
    get the 16v option as well?

    R.

    
    Well, I believe it's sold in France in the Chamade form, and I have
    read that it WILL be available in that form in the UK too, but at when
    I asked the local dealer about the booted 16 valve I was told the UK 
    would NOT be getting get.
    
    It would make an interesting(not to mention quick) alternative to a 
    Cavalier Sri or an Orion Ghia injection.
    
    Mark

Surely the Renault 19 GTX is more of an alternative to the Orion Ghia!

    
    Re .10
    
    In terms of ability/trim maybe, but have you seen what an Orion Ghia
    costs!!!!!
    
    Mark

 Last months CAR magazine mentions a 4WD 16v Turbo Chamade and a few other 
goodies from renault, due around 1993 I think.

	Barrie

re .6

Mark,

Does this 16v have 'spoke' wheels!


Greg

    
    err.
    
    I think so (assuming you mean 5 spoke alloys and not wire wheels!)
    
    I'll bring the magazine in tomorrow and enter some highlights if 
    any of you are interested.
    
    Mark

    Nope I meant wire wheels (but didn't know they were called that)!!
    
    Reason I ask is I've seen a done up 19 near me, with wire wheels and
    thought it looked pretty good!
    
    
    Greg

There are three sorts of wire wheels:

1) Centre lock: these have a two inch (approx) splined hole in the middle, to
   fit a splined hub on the axle.  "Adaptor splines" are available to
   fit most ordinary hubs, allowing centre lock wheels to be fitted.

2) Bolt on: these fit on the ordinary four or five bolt hub, although they don't
   look as good and you can't fit eared spinners, only the hexagon caps.

3) Wire baskets: these aren't a wire wheel at all.  You fit an ordinary wheel,
   the Weller steel 8-spoke being popular as it's strong and cheap.  The wire
   basket, available in chromed steel or plastic, then fits on top like an
   ordinary wheel cover.  Looks very tacky, although advocated by some as "you
   can take them off and clean them in the dishwasher".  (NB don't try this with
   real wire wheels: for these you need a long brush and a lot of patience!).

It should be easy to see which sort this Renault has...

Scott

    Surely the best thing to do is find out what make they are, or look
    through the mags for a type that you like, check they are compatible
    with the car and include them when you submit a quote. (I assume we're
    talking lease-mobiles)

    - Roy

There is only one make of wire wheel: Dunlop, sold through their subsidiary MWS.
Nowhere in their literature does it mention whether or not they will fit
Renaults.  I doubt whether they are available directly from Renault as
"original equipment", so you probably couldn't get a lease-quote for them.

Scott

PS OK, So Borrani (Italy) also make wire wheels but at immense cost and poor
availability in UK...

    Re: . 19 <"original equipment">

    Since when do accessories specified on lease-quotes have to be
    "original equipment" ?

    Many sunroofs and alarms are not factory fitted, and not supplied by
    the manufacturer.

    Why should this be different for wheels ? I thought the idea of the
    lease scheme was to allow you to order what you want with as many options
    as you like. You just have to pay the extra !

    - Roy

    
    Autocar And Motor has a test of the Renault 19 16 valve today and it
    makes interesting reading. For the money they say the car is very good,
    but the performance is mediocre. This is strange since CAR magazine
    tested a LHD 19 16v last month and found the performance very good.
    Is A&M's a freak car or is the RHD version lacking in power?
    
    Mark

    A&M are very conservative with their compliments. IMHO.
    They gave the RS Fiesta bad press with their test drive of that
    last august. I test drove this car and found their criticism very
    unfounded.
    
    - Roy

    
    Re .23
    
    I agree. Their criticisms of the Renault 5 GT Turbo struck me as
    nit-picking and their comments on the Calibra's handling seem harsh too
    under road conditions.
    
    Still, I think it's better to err on the cautious side than be
    acclaiming everything as the best since sliced bread (for an example of
    this read the Kit Car press, with the possible exception of Kit Cars
    International).
    
    Mark

    
    
    Answering an earlier question in this topic...
    The 19 16v will be available in both hatchback and Chamade form.

    I also read the road test and was surpised by the performance
    figures. Does it have a cat in the UK or something? 140bhp should
    make it a lot quicker than 9.5 secs 0-60.
    
    Richard.

    >  The performance is poor considering we're talking 137bhp. You need to
    >  get past 4000rpm to get "real" acceleration. 30-50 in 4th takes 9.7
    >  secs, which they mention is 0.1sec slower than the 1.4 R19TSE. That
    >  IS worrying!

To my mind, this proves how silly it can be just looking at certain 
performance figures, without taking into account how you drive.

I'm certain that no driver of a 16V car would be in 4th gear to
overtake at 30-50 mph. I guess this is the middle to upper part
of 2nd gear range.......

I'd look at the in-gear times that A&M usually do for each 20 mph
increment; I guess you'd find that 90-110 is probably as fast as
the 30-50 range......

Peter.

>>   <<< Note 1179.27 by HEWIE::RUSSELL "Well, it was here a minute ago..." >>>

>>    >  The performance is poor considering we're talking 137bhp. You need to
>>    >  get past 4000rpm to get "real" acceleration. 30-50 in 4th takes 9.7
>>    >  secs, which they mention is 0.1sec slower than the 1.4 R19TSE. That
>>    >  IS worrying!
    
>>I'm certain that no driver of a 16V car would be in 4th gear to
>>overtake at 30-50 mph. I guess this is the middle to upper part
>>of 2nd gear range.......
    
    I certainly would, unless I wanted to do it quicker! It depends on the
    circumstances. I bet not everybody with a turbo goes down to second
    gear to overtake either!.
    
    But I do agree, figures are meaningless unless in context the  1.4
    R19TSE might have a quicker 30-50 in 4th, but not in 3rd or 2nd.
    
    Richard

    Weldale in Reading now have a 19 16 valve in their showroom if anyone
    is interested. Had a quick look over it last Saturday and it looks
    pretty good - they've done a good job of adding the body kit to what is
    basically an ugly car.
    
    Anyone had a go in one yet - if so whats the verdict performance wise,
    'coz I may well be interested in one if my Turby doesn't get rebuilt.
    
    Spike.

    Go on Spike, get a test drive and let us know what you think :-)
    
    - Roy

    Have you seen the R19 16v posters on the roadside advertising boards ?
    Its the one with the caption "16 INTO 19 DOES GO".

    Are they inferring that normally 16 into 19 doesn't go ?
    Think about it for a mo. When I was at school 16 into 19 went 1 and 3
    over. Maybe the caption should be 19 into 16 does go, but then they are
    not advertising an R16 with 19 valves !

    I think the marketing boys at Renault have got their "sums" wrong.

    - Roy

    
    Maybe the "DOES GO" implies lots of motion? A sort of mathematical
    play on words?
    
    Mark

    Took a 16 Valve 19 for a test drive last night and in the short time I
    had it I was very impressed. Holds the road better than a 5 GTT, the power
    steering is excellent, gears are good. The only thing it lacks is the
    "go" of the 5 but I expected that and I reckon I could live it (must be
    getting old!). It only had 70 miles on the clock when I got hold of it
    so I guess it would still have a fair bit of loosening up to do and I'd
    expect it to perform better later on. One thing I did find was there
    seemed to be a bit of a flat spot between 1st and 2nd, but maybe it
    needed a few more revs - the salesman cringed everytime I took it
    towards the red line - so I couldn't push it too hard to find out what
    it could really do. 
    
    Overall very impressed - just depends on what sort of price the quote
    comes in at as to whether I go for it.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike. 

re .33;

I'm surprised the salesman didn't stop the car and throw you out!!

Taking it towards the red line with only 70 miles on the clock? I know modern
engines don't need to be as carefully run in nowadays, but even so....

Peter.

RE: -.1

>>    Thursday). The 6 speaker audio option with satellite control sounds
>>    like a very good idea, 

OK, I'll bite - what on earth is this (explained simply!)

Steve

    Re: -1.
    
    Simply put it means a stereo with 6 speakers and another stick on the
    steering column to turn up the volume, change channels etc. Doesn't
    sound quite as impressive though does it!!! 
    
    Re: -2. How long has the 5GTT got left to run - if not too long I may
    be interested. 
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    I've just been looking through a brochure for the 16v.

    Very impressed with equipment levels. Particularly the remote
    locking,leccy s/roof and trip computer. I've already mentioned that I
    like the 6 speaker stereo option.

    I've never liked the look of the 19 (or many french cars come to that),
    but the spoilers, wheels and air intake in the bonnet improve the look
    significantly.

    If I hadn't already ordered the RS, this would definately be next on
    the list. (I don't wish to pay too much extra on the lease and other
    cars in this class cost over a grand a year (ie 16v Astra etc.)

    I'm a bit sceptical about catalytic coverters (which the 19 has as
    standard) as it reduces performance and can give off a 'bad egg' smell
    because of the reaction of sulphur in the petrol.

    - Roy

What is Renaults quoted 0-60?

The 2 tests I've seen varied from 7.8 to 9.?

cheers,


Greg

    What Car tested it, and came back with a 0-60 time of 7.4 seconds!!!
    
    Considering that the 16v Clio is only thought to be introduced at a few
    pounds cheaper, the 16v 19 looks amazing value for money. 
    
    Steve.
    
    PS. What Car rated it over the Golf GTI 16v.
    

    
    Performance Car say they now rate the 19 16v as the top hot hatch,
    displacing the 309 GTi. Said that the 19 could be bought with ABS for
    less than the price of the standard 309 GTi or Golf GTi.
    
    Good article in this months issue. Think they made 8.2 or similar for
    the 0-60 dash -- not a concern to me, so I forgot it. Remember that the
    0-100 time was good though ....
    
    Some concern expressed about lack of mid-range torque. Suspect that
    means you have it row it along on the gear lever, like the Golf 16v.
    
    Looks pretty. Wouldn't be surprised if the price rises rapidly
    as soon as market acceptance exists.
    
    
    
    

    
    >> Some concern expressed about lack of mid-range torque. Suspect that
    >> means you have it row it along on the gear lever, like the Golf 16v.
    
    Like ANY 16v engine.
    
    Mark

    
    Re -1
    
    Absolutely not so. Some 16v's are perfectly adequate in the mid-range.
    That's one of the reasons I still have my Mazda 626 16v after 65000
    miles & 3 years -- should have been changed by now, but I like it too
    much to bother .........
    
    Pulls hard at any rpm from 2500 up. Pulling very hard when the rev
    limiter cuts in @ 6900!
    
    Integrale 16v that I sometimes drive is also fine, but Jetta 16v is
    not good  -- quick enough, if you want to chase around up & down the
    box like a boy racer. I drive vehicles like that on circuits -- don't 
    need it on the road. 

    
    Re -1
    
    Don't know about the Mazda, but the Integrale's grunt is more likely
    due to it's turbo-charger than it's 16 valves.
    
    Mark (16v <> Turbo)

>    Integrale 16v that I sometimes drive is also fine, but Jetta 16v is
    
    The Integrale 16V would have reasonable mid-range, it's got a turbo!
    The Astra/Cavalier 16V has a decent mid-range (without cat).

    Has anybody actually taken delivery of one of these beasties yet ? (The
    Renault, I mean). I'm sure we'd all be interested in a long term
    report. But make it good, as I've just ordered the saloon, and I don't
    want to find I've made a mistake !!!
    
    Colin

    There are two convertible versions of 19 available September'ish this
    year.
    
    One based on the TXE and t'other on the 16v. Both on the hatchback body
    shell.
    
    Piccys etc. etc. in this months What Car.
    
    Rich
    

RE: .48

	I wasn't sure if you wanted to know about the 16V beastie or just the
Renault 19 XXX Chamade. Anyway I've had my Chamade for 13 months now, I've got
the GTD i.e. the diesel version of the GTS trim level except I asked for the
Ergonomics and Electrics kit which nearly makes it a TX?.

Problems:

1. The radio was wired in wrongly, faded FR to RL and balanced FL to RR!
2. Two diesel injectors developed leaks spraying diesel around the engine.
3. The boot leaked copiously in heavy rain
4. The sunroof developed a leak
5. The little windbreak that pops up when the sunroof is opened vibrates at
   speeds greater than 50-60 MPH.

It's difficult to write about the good things because you only ever remember
the problems but I've had it 13 months, I've done 45,000 miles, the Dealer
(City Motors (Bristol) Ltd) have always been courteous and barring a little
misunderstanding about the boot leak, efficient.

To expand a little about the problems,
1. I fixed myself, quick screwdriver and wiring plan job
2. Disconcerting but according to the driver of the pickup truck who "rescued"
   me from the M4 "...not unusual in a new car..."
3. The boot problem is the only REAL problem that I would say has bothered me,
   they took 4 attempts to fix it, replacing seals and refitting the boot lid.
4. The sunroof they ripped out and replaced... no further problem.
5. I removed the windbreak with no noticeable effect other than the quietness.

One thing that has sprung to mind is how much load it can carry! Being a booted
car I was expecting to have to use my wife's Golf if we ever had to move things
but the only real loss is in the height of the load area, it is limited by the
parcel shelf. You can fold the rear seats down to give enough room to fit in a
six  foot bedframe or even take the whole of the back seat backrests out for an
extra 3-4 inches of headroom.

Now some probably irrelevant comments on the engine, being diesel it's quite
noisy but it pulls reasonably well, I can't claim the Mestro 100MPG/100MPH but
I've had 59MPG and 105MPH(from the clock) (both on the continent :-)).

All in all, I've been very happy with the car, doing the miles I do I have to
get it serviced virtually every month (diesel service every 5000) so I've had
quite a few opportunities to compare the Renault with Escort/Orions/
Cavaliers/Sierras and although the Cavaliers/Sierras are probably  nicer to
drive when the have the 1.8l engines, smaller engined ones and the
Escort/Orions don't really have that much of an advantage, if any IMHO. In fact
I would give a VERY negative assessment to the new shape Escort 1.6 Ghia.

A perfectly resonable car as long as you don't get fed up with reinforming
those who still judge Renault on their reputation of 5-10 years ago!

	Ian.

    re:50
    
    Actually, I was interested in the 16V Chamade. However, thank-you for
    and interesting reply !! Performance shouldn't be a problem ;-) The
    sunroof is electric, and I don't think has the deflector. As for the
    boot, p'haps I'll acquire some pet ducks. Thanks for the feedback.
    
    As an aside, it seems interesting that there are loads of notes asking
    about the 16V, hatch or saloon, but nobody else has owned up to
    ordering/receiving one. The dealers are suggesting that they're selling
    like hot cakes. And who ever met a car dealer that told porkies ;-)
    
    Rgds
    
    Colin

    Spike was going to order one.

    I got my R5 Gtt from Baldock. They seem very helpful. You can get them
    on Bracknell 54444
    
    Greg

I ordered the hatchback about a month ago with an estimated delivery date of 
early July. (Options of ABS and 6 speaker ICE).
 Well it actually arrived yesterday (May 30). The guy who delivered
it said they couldn't sell them quickly enough and they were turning them over
very quickly. 

First impressions are very good. Only had it 12 hours and the one gripe so far
is that they didn't supply the correct radio manual.

Apparently peak performance isn't reached until 1000 miles have been covered,
and you're not supposed to go over 3500 rpm until 500 miles have been done
(250 so far).
There is also a rev limiter fitted which cuts in at 7000 rpm, (haven't tested it
yet though !)

Trip computer is a nice toy, telling you distance travelled and average mpg/mph 
at the press of a button on the end of the windscreen wiper stalk.

All sorts of unrecognisable bits under the bonnet (compared to my previous car
an Uno).

Reports I've read say the dash is dull and boring. Seems fine to me with plenty
of clear instruments and indicators.

Haven't had it long enough to give a decent driving report, but will try and 
remember to give one later.

Cheers,
David
   

    So what is the mileage per gallon figure like then David?
    
    
    
    diana

    So David what is your opinion so far - are you happy with your choice?
    Can we have a blow by blow account of the story so far? I've ordered
    one for delivery on Aug 1st, so I would like to hear the good things and
    the bad so that I can know what to expect. I hear that the latest
    models have a different stereo - any ideas on this?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

Hi Spike,

Well I've now done 1200 miles in the car and I think you'll be pleased with your
choice.

Good points:

i.    Performance
ii.   Sticks to the road like it's on rails
iii.  Large boot
iv.   Electric sunroof
v.    Trip computer
vi.   ICE  (I went for the Phillips six speaker Hi-Fi option)
vii.  Doesn't leak (I gather from other notes this has been a problem on some
cars)
viii. Brakes are very good (discs all round and ABS option)
ix.   Very quiet at speed
           
The not so good points I've found so far are:

i.    Rear visibility is not too good.
ii.   Fuel economy (I've so far only managed 28 mpg)
iii.  Fuel gauge.
iv.   Ventilation

The main gripe at the moment is fuel economy. I should be able to average about
35 mpg according to figures I'v read. I don't believe I drive it particularly
hard, but I've only managed 28mpg so far. The trip computer mpg figure matches
very closely my own measurement (filling up and seeing how many miles you've
covered when you next fill up). The trip actually indicate six things:

fuel left in gallons (down to 1 gallon)
miles to go before you need a fill up
miles travelled since last reset
average speed since reset
average mpg since reset
outside temp in degrees F.

I guess the the French version does it all in kilometres, litres and degrees C.

One thing that's worth bearing in mind; You only have the trip computer to
indicate how much fuel you have left. It gives a readout to the nearest tenth
of a gallon e.g. 2.5g. Once you go below 1.0 g, however, the trip goes off and
a low petrol indicator comes on. When this happens, I advise you to fill up
asap. I didn't, and covered what I thought was about 15 miles, and ran out ;had
to walk three miles ;(   
 
The grip on the road is very good. It seems to like going round bends. The
tires are very low profile (195/50) but as a result the clearance off the ground
is very small. The front spoiler is only milimetres away from the kerb when I
park at work. Looks like it's hoovering up the gravel on the path.

I'd recommend going for the 6-Speaker Philips Hi-Fi option. Being able to change
station and volume without taking your hands off the wheel is a real boon. The
sound quality is also excellent.

The only other minor gripe is ventilation. There are numerous dials and
positions to set them to control incoming airflow. I haven't managed so far to
find a good combination. Not too bad so far, but if the weather ever hots up,
it could be a problem.

But overall I'm very pleased with the car. I've never owned a "hot hatch"
before. I have driven a Pug 205 1.6 for a while, and the Renault certainly
feels and performs better IMHO.

Bet you can't wait until August.

Anyone else ordered one ?

Cheers,
David

    Degrees F?  Can't you fix that?
    
    Jeff.
    

Re .59

Also, now that fuel is sold in litres in this country, maybe that would be a
more useful unit than gallons?

As we change units, manufacturers are going to have to update their
localisation for the UK market...

Jon

    
    Well thanks for that David - most encouraging. And as you say I can't
    wait until August so that I have a new toy to play with!!!
    
    Keep us informed on any new developments.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    Well Autocar and Motor give the car another slating about its
    performance in 3rd july issue although apart from that they loved it
     Can anybody put the record straight on performance as these >9.1 secs
    for 0-60 is very average.
    
    Regards Martin

    Saw another review at lunch time in Sports Car magazine or something to
    that effect and they quoted 8.2 for 0-60.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.
    
    PS. David, can you tell me what the first service interval is please?

	First service is at 6000 miles.

	RE : A few back about the radio manual.
	I rang Renault Croydon about my radio manual again, and they say that
	all 19/16V models have been sent out with the wrong manual. They are
	currently awaiting a stock load from France.

	...

	David 

Until they get a SPECmark for cars, it is probably best not to use
0-60 speeds as a measure of performance.

Best to try and drive it to see what you think.

FWIW The Clio 1.4RT has bad performance figures, but feels really fast,
and responsive. Given that the car is quiet, it must perform pretty well.

Mark.

    What Car? got 7.5 secs 0-60.....

0-60 times depend on the specific test car you've got, and how good the test
driver is.

It's a stupid performance figure anyway; how often do you need to do 0-60
that fast?!  Better and more useful figures are 30-50 and 50-70.

Even better is ignore all the figures and just drive it yourself and see what
you think!

Scott

    Well people - the Spikemobile is back in business - a cute little
    metallic blue R19 16V is now sitting in the car park. Lets see how long
    this one lasts before it gets stolen!
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.
    

Well done Spike.

Who's got a 'J' plate then :-)

    ....my drive, a shiny new Renault 19 16V Saloon.
    
    Whose could it be, oh yes, it's mine !!
    
    20+ miles later what can I say, except that I ca't wait until it is run
    in !
    
    Question - with regards to petrol, what do the panel thing: ordinary 95
    RON unleaded, or the supercharged 98 RON variety ??
    
    Colin

>>   Question - with regards to petrol, what do the panel thing: ordinary 95
>>   RON unleaded, or the supercharged 98 RON variety ??
    
    
    Colin,
    if you mean to pour over it to light it, then I'd recommend Paraffin
    actually.    :-)
    
    Seriously though, I'm just jealous because my car was cancelled and
    yours wasn't.
    
    Stevie.
    
    PS.  If you find Metallic Grey scrapes down the side at about Granada
    height, theyre nothing to do with me.  :-) :-)

    re: the Grey Metallic stripes.
    
    Hey, Stevie, as long as they match the Tungsten Grey of my car that's
    OK !!
    
    If you fancy a drive next week, no problem. As long as it's not nicked
    over the weekend !! The delivery drivery told me how he had one nicked
    in London, 500 yards from where he had to deliver it. Apparently he
    popped into a shop to check the directions. When he came out, it had
    gone !! I bet he was popular !
    
    I'm going to top up tonight on the way home with Asda's ordinary
    unleaded. We'll see what happens. Wonder if my Cat' will get smelly ;-)
    
    Colin

    
    Ok, it's not a Renault, but I've tried my Calibra on super-unleaded 
    and it didn't make a scrap of difference to the performance. As they
    are similar engines, I wouldn't have thought it'll make much difference
    to the 19 either, but I'd try both just to see.
    
    Mark

Similar in that they have four cylinders, 16 Valves and a cat!

    
    And two cams and a 2 litre(ish) capacity?
    
    Mark

    Well I've been running mine on ordinary unleaded since delivery 750
    miles ago and it seems to go OK - in fact I can't see it running any
    better on the super stuff, I reckon the only difference would be to
    your pocket!
    
    The only complaint I have so far is the smell from the cat! Do they
    always smell so bad, or is it just because its new?
    
    Any opinions on the running in front? The user guide reckons that after
    500 miles you can run it as hard as you like but full performance won't
    be available until after about 1500 miles. However, the chap at the garage
    reckoned you should run it at no more than 4000 rpm until its first service 
    at 6000 miles. I don't particularly fancy waiting that long - although
    at current rates of progress that will only be a couple of weeks away
    'coz its so much fun even going relatively slowly.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike. 
                                                      

	Mine smelt of bad eggs for a little while. It stopped though after about
	500 miles. Another note in here somewhere explains that's it's all to do
	with the absence of nickel in the cat. Something to do with Germany not
	liking nickel in its cats.
	
	It wasn't you yesterday on the M40 was it Spike, in convoy with me for
	about 10 miles ?

	David

    David,
    
    Yep could have been me - I was going south between about 3-30 - 4-30pm.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.
                
    PS. What do you reckon on the running in front?

Has anybody had problems with the engine overheating in this hot weather?

Our 6-day-old Renault overheated yesterday - the warning light started
flashing, and the engine cut out.  Coolant levels were fine.

Carol Gilroy

>>Has anybody had problems with the engine overheating in this hot weather?


oh dear, see the R5 GTturbo note about over heating :-)

It really is about time Renault learnt about shoving 'hot' engines into confined
spaces.

16v drivers will be complaining about hot starting and vapour lock problems 
soon !!!   :-)


...art

    Dare I say this - nope (not yet).
    
    Question - how accurate is your (Renault) computer ? On mine, the Fuel
    Guage is as accurate as any analogue device, the Miles Travelled tends
    to disagree slightly with the analogue one, and the MPG is a tad
    optimistic.
    
    Colin

    Nope - no problem with mine, and its spent a couple of hours in jams on the
    M5 and M6 in hot weather.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike. 

    Any more updates on mpg figures with the 16v 19 ?
    
    The last time this was mentioned I seem to recall the figure 28mpg
    which didn't sound too good.
    
    - Roy

The cause of the overheating problem...

A faulty temperature sensor switch meant the fan was not switching on.

Carol

    
    	I had a good one on the R5GTT the other week, it started going
    critical for no apparent reason... new sensors, check the electrics,
    but nothing fixed it... it turned out to be a bad airlock in the
    cooling system... the heater also works now...! So much for the three
    coolant changes that Welcrap and Duetsche Renault AG have performed...
    give it to your brother I say...!

re: .84

MPG over the last 3500 miles has been 31.5
Better than 28 but still not brilliant.
Consumption goes up rapidly in town, and down rapidly on the motorway doing 70++
i.e. MPG increases rapidly away from town driving.

BTW
No overheating problems yet.

David

    I've had 34mpg over the last 1500 miles - half of that was in a weekend
    run up the motorways to deepest North Wales and the other half between
    Reading and Basingstoke daily.
    
    All in all I can't complain 'coz the most I managed to get out of the
    BX 16v I had before was about 28, and that was using 4 star rather
    than unleaded.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.
    
    PS. Roy, if you wan't to take it for a spin sometime just let me know.

	A friend of mine has the 16v, or should I say he had the 16v.
	After only 3 months he managed to sieze the engine and it is 
	now in the guarage awaiting a new one (4500 pounds ouch!!).

	Renault are refusing to do the repair under waranty claiming
	that he was negligent in not topping up the oil.  This is 
	dispite the fact that the oil warning light never came on. 

	Has anyone had similar problems with low oil level?  Or siezed
	engines even?

	Cheers,

	Alan

    
    Ouch!
    
    I suppose he should've checked the oil level (16 valve engines are
    supposedly prone to burning oil in the early days of their life), but
    it is very easy to forget all about your car if it's serviced
    regularly.
    
    Did the car loose the oil (was it dropping from a leak)? Don't 19s have
    oil pressure gauges? I'd've thought that he should have noticed a fall
    in oil pressure if it was sufficient to seize the engine simply due to
    lack of oil. Remember that the light merely comes on when the oil
    pressure gets very low, I had an engine wreck itself once when the
    water all blew out of a duff top hose and overheated the engine. In
    that case neither the water temperature gauge or the oil pressure light
    showed any signs of trouble until the engine seized! If the pump failed 
    or the car sprang a major leak then Renault are to blame. If so he 
    should push hard on them.
    
    If not someone is faced with a big bill! I hope the car is leased!
    
    Mark

    I wouldn't let renault get away with that. Presumably he had the car
    serviced by a dealer?, He should conter claim that the garage can't
    have re-filled it properly as a loss of that amount is not normal for a
    car over such a short period of time.
    
    Richard
    

    
    
    hi,
    
    
       Does the 16v not have the oil level gauge in the instrument cluster,
    or is this function performed by the on board computer in this model. 
    
       The lesser models have the gauge fitted and it make life very easy
    to check the oil level.
    
       Best idea is to stick to your guns with Renault,and insist its their
       problem, this seems to be the only way to deal with them.
    
    
                           Alan. 
                            

re .91,

its an oil level, not oil pressure. It only works when the engine is not
turning over.....(I guess this is also true of the dipstick ;-)

Jc

    
    On the 5GTT it is a combined level and pressure gauge.
    
    Is it not the same on the 16v 19?
    
    Mark

	The car is leased and it had been serviced recently by a Renault 
	dealer.   There are now a lot of paperwork flying between Renault,
	PHH and his company while they try to figure out whose going to
	pay.

	I agree that it is a Renault problem.  You shouldn't have to worry
	about checking the oil level on a brand new car that has recently
	been serviced.   I know the 16v has a oil-level indicator in the 
	instrument panel, but how many people seriously check all those 
	things every time you enter the car?  I guess that most of us just
	stick the keys in the ignition and turn on without a second thought.

	Alan

    Yeah but when you're only popping out for some chips !!
    
    Rich
    

    
    Come on Rich!!!
    
    
    
    That is the 'popping out for chips' list!!!!
    
    Mark

	Company cars DO NOT need oil, water, air... etc

	All they need is petrol and a new engine every 3 months.

	:-)

	Alan

> NEWOA::SAXBY "Aye. When I were a lad...."

	Mark, you never were !

	You've *always* been an *old* hack, isn't that right Jane ?

	Alex :^)

    
    Eh up Alex,
    
    I tell thee I were a lad afore ye had yur first car (When are you
    getting a real car?) :^)
    
    Mark

    Mr Mod.
    
    Is he allowed to use phrases like 'region of origin' in a notes 
    conference?!
    
    Mark

	STOP PRESS

	RE: .90

	I had a chat to a good friend last night whose colleague HAD a 19 16v.
	His car "blew up" recently due to lack of oil.
	It stopped working at the end of the A329(M) in Reading. Like .90, no
	low oil level warning.
	He also needs a new engine (cost 4500).
	I'll post the exact details when I get them, but I know he has had the
	car less than 3 months.
	I suggest all 16v owners check their oil level NOW.

	Cheers,
	David

RE -1

Yes there is a level indicator that works when you turn the ignition before
starting the engine. Once the engine is running, this gauge turns into an oil
pressure gauge. Usually though you don't (or at least I don't) have time to look
at the oil level gauge. I just switch the engine on.
I think the argument is that there should be an extra low level light that comes
on, in a similar vein to the low fuel light.

David

    
    If they give you a gauge which you don't bother looking at, you'll
    probably tend to ignore a light too! 
    
    Mark

    
    ...aren't these cars fitted with an oil dipstick......  I always find
    them to be a reliable form of checking the oil level. 
    

    
    Now, now Elaine.
    
    You should realise by now that drivers of company cars are expressly
    forbidden to lift the bonnets of their cars :^|
    
    This explains why people like Renault put oil level gauges on their
    dashboards. 
    
    Of course, it doesn't explain why the 16v Renault lunches itself in 
    the first 3 months! I bet these people wish they'd bought a
    'troublesome' 5GTT! :^)
    
    Mark

    
>    You should realise by now that drivers of company cars are expressly
>    forbidden to lift the bonnets of their cars :^|
    
ooops, broken that one several times already :-)

Well it now transpires that the car in .90 and .106 are one and the same
reported via different routes. But at least three other people with 16v
cars have reported unexpected large oil consumption.
Worth keeping an eye on.

dib	

    
    Jane,
    
    You're lucky no-one here reports you for that!!!!!
    
    Mark

    Well having had a 5 GTT in the past I know which one I'd pick next time
    around and it wouldn't have 5 in it. Now if it came to a choice between
    the 19 and the 16 valve Clio then it might be a bit more difficult.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    Foggy here this am, had to use my fog lights. Suprise suprise, the
    nearside rear one isn't working. And it's only 2000 miles (three weeks)
    old. Question - was it ever working ??!!
    
    Colin
    
    P.S. Why oh why do so many people not put their lights (any lights) on
    in this weather.
    
    P.P.S. Im collecting all the receipts for the petrol, when I've got
    enough, and some time, I'll post a report on the MPG I'm getting.
    Initial impressions suggest 33 overall, a lot less in pure town
    driving, rather better on long motorway journeys. In short, highly
    erratic !!

re .117,

Funny that - on Saturday, I changed a faulty stop bulb in the LHS of my other
halfs R19 TSE. I noticed that the fog lamp was all wired up, but with no bulb
and with a piece of plastic blanking the hole. I put in a spare bulb to match
the one on the RHS and removed the plastic with a knife - voila, two fog lamps 
now instead of one!

Jc

    This must be the same with most french cars, my PUG has a dummy LHS one
    too - stupid really!
    
    ..Craig

    
    How cheap can you get??????

    Well, you could get an R5 GTT ....;-) Or a Fiasco RS Turbot, or an
    XR3why, or ......;-) ;-)

    Re: the last few.
    
    The law only requires that you have one rear foglight, my dads 1978
    Granada only had one as well, until he did likewise and went out to buy
    a bulb etc.  There is a rumour that ONLY one will be the rule in
    future, a reasonable idea because it's then less easy to mistake brakes
    for fogs and run up the back of someone !!
    
    Q: While I'm on the subject (** rathole alert **) You know what winds me
    up ? 
    A: People who think that just because it's raining it's a good idea to
    put on their fog lamps (illegal except in fog) thus turning everything
    into a sort of "red mist".  This makes it impossible to see the other
    (also illegal) people saving electricity by only putting on their
    sidelights instead of headlights  %-(
    
    Stevie.  (Who as a biker as well wonders why so many car drivers don't
    see me even though my headlamp is on ALL THE TIME I'm on the bike ?)

re .123 and others

I don't like cars with only one foglight... In conditions of very poor
visibility, it makes me think I'm following a motorbike!

I think it would be silly to make "only one" the rule... I think the current
law, whereby fog lamps have to be >100mm from the brake lamps, is sufficient.

Spending money on educationg drivers on when to use them would be better than
wasting it on a silly change to the law...

Scott

>> I don't like cars with only one foglight... In conditions of very poor
>> visibility, it makes me think I'm following a motorbike!
    
    So ??
    
    

A few days ago, I was driving (fortunately, quite slowly) past a line of 
queued-up cars going the other way, or rather, not going the other way.
(pay attention, it does make sense)

It was night, and I had my lights on.  Headlights, not sides.

The man at the back of the queue decided that he wanted to be nearer the front,
since (it turned out later) that somebody in another car had impugned his 
virility by driving faster than him, so he wished to rearrange his features 
for him.....and he decided to use my bit of road instead.

After I stopped (fortunately, they have nice wide pavements in that bit of 
Dorset), I remonstrated with the gentleman, on his way to partake in fisticuffs
with the driver he'd blocked in place.....


"Werl, I saw the lights, but I fought you was two bl**din' bikes, din' I ?"


10 out of ten for imagination........



aaaagh !


Ian

re .126

Nothing wrong with motorbikes!  (If someone gave me a Triumph one I'd be
delighted! :-)

But it is useful to know what type of vehicle is in front, as you then have a
better idea of what it's likely to do...

Also, you have a better idea where the vehicle is: A single light near the
outside of the lane implies a motorbike about to pull out for some reason
rather than a car sitting centrally in a lane.

Why do you think lorries have to have so many marker lights?  So you can see
the vehicle's outline in the dark!  Why should the same logic not apply for fog
lights?

Scott

    Well I haven't managed to get a test drive of a 16v Clio yet - but I
    have seen one in the flesh close up and it looks really neat apart from
    the silly pattern on the seats. Also seen at the same garage a white
    convertible 16v 19 - now you're talking neat!!!
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.
    

    
    Was there a price on the convertible 16v 19?
    
    Steve.
    

    The model on display on the Champs Elysee costs  FF151600 I believe.
    
    Steve 

    Anyone know of anywhere that services Renaults around the Basingstoke
    area, and no Weldale in Reading would not qualify if it was the last
    place on earth.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    
    Re .90 et al -- 19 16v engines collapsing ...
    
    My little boy has just had his first company car go bang ....
    
    16V with 3000 miles on the clock. Engine totalled, with no advance
    warning. Wrecked camshaft, crankshaft, ends, one liner etc. New engine
    to be fitted by Renault. 
    
    Local sources talk of several other known low-mileage disasters.
    Rumoured to be a function of the oil used by Renault at delivery time.
    
    Baldocks in Bracknell supply a warning letter on delivery to new
    owners. Covers in detail the specific running-in needs for the lump. 
    Certain others don't -- in fact, my son was told it didn't need
    running-in!!
    
    PHH confirm they have had several other similar instances in recent
    weeks.
    
    Colin

    
    Certainly Renault's tolerances wouldn't appear to be that good...
    
    William.

    
    It's all these bloody thrashy 16 valve engines the Japs forced on us!
    :^)
    
    Mark

    
    I think the mechanical tolerance of Renault drivers is exemplary.
    It has to be!
    
    William.

RE: -.1

I think that William's-Renault engine has been excellent this year, it is the
rest of the team that needs looking at. Ooops - this ISN'T the Formula 1 note?
Sorry....

Steve

	Well I've just had my first service at Baldock's of Bracknell.
	There was a notice on the passenger seat when I collected the car.

	It says:
<<
	IMPORTANT NOTICE
	________________

	WITH REFERENCE TO YOUR NEW RENAULT 19 16 VALVE.

	CAN YOU PLEASE KEEP A REGULAR CHECK ON YOUR OIL AND COOLANT LEVELS
	AS PER YOUR SERVICE BOOK INSTRUCTIONS ON PAGE 52.

	THIS MUST BE CHECKED AT LEAST PER 500 MILES AND TOPPED UP ACCORDINGLY.

	THANK YOU FOR YOUR CO-OPERATION.
>>

	I wonder if this is a standard memo from Renault, or if Baldock's are
	noticing a large number of low oil leveled cars.

	David

    
    It's Baldock's. Renault have not put out any nation-wide advice (info
    from a chum who just happens to be Customer Services Mgr Renault UK)
    
    I suggested Renault might like to get off their behind & do something
    about it. My youngster is well cross that his dis-integrated with no
    heavier driving than he gave his Fiat Uno Turbo. It has made me doubt 
    getting a 16V for myself -- previously the only doubt was that I only
    like the blue colour that he has, & I didn't want him nicking mine just
    'cos it had more fuel in the tank. "Sorry, Dad, didn't realise it was
    yours" & all that stuff.
    
     A social friend in PHH tells us they are considering pulling the 16V
    off their lists if the situation does not improve very quickly.
    
    Colin

    Anyone got/getting a 'new' quote for the Renault 19 16V? I'd be
    interested to see what it would cost.
    
    Greg

Hmm!

VTX seems to change without warning

as of 15:00 15/11/91

077  RENAULT 19 16V 3DR H/B            815      6      N/A    S       S
    S    207    45      S     S     N/A      S      86


Greg

    Went and sat in a 19 16V, at a garage yesterday , they had a sticker in 
    the right hand side of the windsreen saying (misquote) "Check oil levels 
    before every trip or knacker your engine"
    
    
    Greg   

re.14

right next to the sticker that says "Renault build a better car"...


...art

    
    They did! 
    
    Mark

    re .146
    
    > They did!
    
    Still do occasionally, quite like the R19, probably the best
    price/performance car on the new company car list and will earn a test
    drive from me!
    
    Greg

	Ok team; can someone solve an argument I'm having at home at the moment?
	Is the blue Renault 19 in the current advert on tv a 16v or not?

	It certainly has the spoiler kit, but does it have an air intake on the
	bonnet? 
	I haven't managed to video the advert yet to look closely. If you have
	a chance, tell me what you think.

	Cheers,
	David

    RE: The advert.
    
    It definately looks like the 16v to me.
    
    Spike's the man with a met blue 16v. What do think mate ?
    
    
    Roy

>>	It certainly has the spoiler kit, but does it have an air intake on the
>>	bonnet? 


very early LHD models did not have this bonnet air intake, current ones do, so
this car most propbably is a 16v one


...art

    
    But did you notice in the advert how the driver was rash enough to
    get in and drive the car away, without checking the oil level first!
    
    Asking for trouble...                                              
    
    William.

    
    Ah, wasn't his car though was it?!?!? :^)
    
    Mark

    Looking at the price list the saloon and hatchback R19 16V are the same
    price, but the brochure says the saloon actually has more cubic feet
    available as boot space.
    
    Does this mean less passenger leg room? 
    
    Does the R19 16V get a height adjustable drivers seat?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg

    Re. Last
    
    I don't know about the size of the boot on the saloon, but on the
    hatchback it is bigger than almost anything else I've seen. Big enough
    for 12 crates of lager, 40 odd bottles of wine and assorted other
    goods, and plenty of room inside for 4 people and a few more crates of
    beer.
    
    Yes it does get height adjustable drivers seat, and also adjustable
    steering column.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

> Big enough
>    for 12 crates of lager, 40 odd bottles of wine and assorted other
>    goods, and plenty of room inside for 4 people and a few more crates of
>    beer.
 

Not that you drink alot Spike!!

:^)   

    Re. last
    
    What me - naaaaaaaaaaaaah! Just wanted to test what a friend told me
    about it being able to accelerate up hill from a ton ten in fifth with a
    full load.... ;-)
    
    Spike.        

    
    Hi,
    
    	Anybody got a RENAULT 19GTD?  If you have what do you get to the
    gallon and what's the build like, I've heard bad things about Renaults.
    
                                 /Martin.

    Hi,
    
    	Yes, I'll admit to driving a 19 GTD!! I wrote a note about it No:
    1179.50 which goes into a little more detail. As to your particular
    questions, I drove the car for 18 months/60,000 miles and apart from
    the troubles noted in my other note the only other problems were
    various irritating squeaks and rattles which are common to many cars. 
                                                                     
    	I was driving Bristol<->Reading M4 and getting >43-44 MPG at fast
    motorway speeds (70-80MPH). Dropping the speed by 10 MPH improved the
    economy to >47-48 MPG. The best MPG I got was touring round France
    30-50MPH leisurely non-town driving when I was getting just short of
    60MPG!
    
    	I recently saw an article in Auto Express which placed the Renault
    second to the new Rover 214 SD noting a powerful engine, it was certainly
    nippier than any other non-turbo diesel I've tried.
    
    	If you're still worried by Renault's reputation then I'd recommend
    you look at the diesel Rover 200/400 combining the classy Rover finish
    with the excellent Peugeot/Citroen engines. I'm now driving a 218 SLD
    Turbo and it's great!
    
    	Ian.

Below is a list of the dislikes of the R19 16V after 1500 miles.

Likes:

	o Build quality (last car was a Pug 205 1.9!!)
	o Styling (The body kit makes all the difference)
	o Motorway crusing ability
	o Steering is simply the best I've ever used
	o Some parts of handling. Good at sweeping bends.
	o Out and out grip, especially in the wet
	o The paint is very well put on!!
	o The seats
	o Snazzy trip computer although not as good as a VW.	

Dislikes:

	o Mid-range performance, I dislike seeing Cavalier 1.6Ls 
	  disapearing into the middle distance accelerating from 70 in 5th!!
	  To counter this I might have to change my driving style!!
	o Very heavy oil consumption. After 500 miles it had eaten 5 litres
	  but has stabilised since. Not that the oil light did not come 
	  on at-all but the oil had fallen off the bottom of the dip stick.
	  The only warning of this is a very small sticker top right of the 
	  windscreen. You have been warned!!
	o Flat spot between 2000-3000 rpm. I will try and get this fixed
	  as it feels as though the mixture is a bit lean.This could explain 
	  part of the mid-range performance problem.
	o Poor fuel economy. 33.1mpg. This falls badly in town and above 
	  70. Bloody Cats.
	o Poor 'country road' handling. Seems to react badly to sudden changes 
	  of direction, unlike the pug.

Qustions:

	o When does the engine expire due to lack of oil!
	o Does anyone else have problems with mid-range punch?
	o What is the average fuel consumption?


								G.P
	

	    	

>>	o When does the engine expire due to lack of oil!
    
    Is there a prize for the person to guess this correctly ?
    
>>	o Does anyone else have problems with mid-range punch?
    
    Isn't this the problem with 16v engine designs ?
    Or is this more noticeable than one would have expected ?
    
>>	o What is the average fuel consumption?
    
    I wouldn't complain if I had a fast vehicle that does over 30 mpg...
    
    
    Overall though, it sounds like a pretty decent car.
    
    J.R.

    
    As reported earlier in this string, my son's R19 16V blew asunder after
    3k miles. According to Renault, it was only halfway to it's first
    recommended service.
    
    Second engine has now covered 2k miles with no ill-effects so far.
    
    This lump is renowned for not really flying until it has 6K miles on
    the clock. Renault even instructed their agents to make sure demo cars
    had this mileage as soon as possible, to show the car in it's true
    light. 
    
    Definitely requires more gearbox activity than my 2 litre Mazda 16V,
    but road-holding in the seriously twisty bits is a delight.
    
    Colin

Re: .159

>	o Very heavy oil consumption. After 500 miles it had eaten 5 litres
    

I shouldn't worry too much about this - as long as this was it's *first* 500
miles - do worry if this continues though.

My car gobbled oil in it's first 500, almost none since.

Thanks for the replys,

	Since my last report the only real problem has been a squeeky 
dashboard around the glovebox, I've tried to fix it but it seems too well
stuck together.

	Oil consumption has all but stopped thank god, my wallet was 
taking a real beating. Engine seems a bit more lively although maybe I'm 
just getting used to it.

								G.P						

    
    My family are slow learners. Although baby son blew up his 19 16v after
    3k miles,  older son now has one as well -- & the old man is probably
    getting a 16V cabrio as soon as they are available ....
    
    Perhaps we'll star in Renault News or somesuch!!
    
    
    Colin

    The guy at DTM in Reading reckons the earliest that the Cabrio will be
    out is June and that they should know the price in May.
    
    As for my own fuel consumption after 7000 miles it seems to be around
    28/29 in town, 32/34 fast motorway to Scotland and back, and about
    37/40 leisurely cruising. Not too bad really, better than my 5 Turbo
    at least.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.   

    
    My contacts in Renault PR tell me there are already 25 cabrios
    registered in the UK -- presumably being road-tested on the 
    continent by the press, or somesuch.
    
	Colin

    
    	Hi 
    		I was reading through my"New car price giude"and i came
    across the Renault 19 page.I'm concidering changing my car and the
    price of an A1 condition Ren'19 seemed quite resonable.I was thinking 
    of spending around 5000-5500 pounds,what do you get,in the way of
    extras in the GTS and the TSE models??(i'm thinking of the 1.4 models
    )What are they like to drive?How do they handle?Are they comfortable
    inside?.Also is there anything that you can advice me to look for when
    purchasing second-hand Renaults.
    
    	Are they really worth it when comparing it to an Astra??
    
    
    	Thanks in advance!
    
    	Andy.....MUFC.

I drove a 1.4 energy, fully loaded with Workstations to Plymouth.

I found it to be a reasonable performer, with excellent economy, and
an excellent ride. Handling seemed good too. The Cabin felt spacious,
but the interior was a little plasticky. I think this improves in the
higher up models.

Mark.

    
    	Thanks Mark.
    		I went to look around one on Friday,and i was quite
    impressed,the salesman offered a 1 hour test drive so i might just 
    take him up on has offer.
    
    	Anyone else?????
    
    
    	Cheers 
    ANDY.....MUFC
    

    There's a full road test report on the R19 16v Cabriolet in this weeks
    Autocar and Motor. Makes quite interesting reading overall. Seems that
    they got better performance out of it than the hatch version which
    seemed strange to me, they must have had a dodgy hatchback. The two
    main criticisms were the rattles from the facia, it wouldn't be a
    Renault without those, and the fuel consumption.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    Spike,
    	You'll just have to stop those racing gearchanges!
    
    	8-)
    
    	Jon.
    

    I heard something about the 19 16v having a facelift, different dash
    and front end and also 1.8 litres up from 1.7. Is this true ?
    
    
    	Chris

    there's a picture of the new front-end of the 19 in this weeks Autocar
    & Motor (news pages). The headlights are now 'almond shaped' - their
    words not mine. I always thought the engine was 1.8 (or 179x cc-ish)
    anyway.
    
    andy

Is there a price increase for this new 19? what else do you get apart
from new headlights!!


Greg

    
    
    	I also heard that the power was up from 137 bhp to 140 giving
    	more torque for mid range accelaration, after driving one
    	yesterday I must agree it is totally flat below 4000 rpm.
    
    	I still fancy one though :-)
    
    	C	

    
    New 19 is available in France from mid-June. Road tests in all the
    French press during the last couple of weeks. Long list of improvements
    -- but I didn't have good enough French to understand them in a quick
    squint in the tabac .....
    

    Just rang my local UK dealer, who can't give me any info. He confirmed
    it was being given a face lift, but said that Renault UK have not heard
    anything official, only rumours. He said probably later this year. 
    
    Greg

    
    re: a couple back.
    
    Its actually a 1764cc I believe. Some people class this as a 1.7 others
    as a 1.8. I don't really care, as I class mine as plain fast!!
    
    Tim

    Any 19 saloon owners out there think that the rear wiper option is
    worth having?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg

    
    Greg,
    
    In its current state, its not even worth having on the hatchback. You
    can't leave it on. To do so, would mean that you'd have to leave your 
    right hand on the stalk indefinately. Its pretty much usless in
    torrential rain.
    
    Tim

    
    Re a few back.
    
    	I've got a 10k ish 19 16v and I agree that the engine is totally
    flat below 4000 rpm. A real dissapointment. Its so slow that most of
    the time it doesnt feel like a Gti at all, more like a Siera on
    tranquilizers. This is a shame because the rest of the car is really 
    very good indeed, far better than the RS2000 in all respects apart from
    the engine.
    
    	One other minus point is the lack of side protection against those
    inconsiderate bast***S who open their door into the side of your car.
    I've been looking around for some after market protection to fit where
    the grey stripe is at the moment to help guard against this.
    
    								G.P
    

    
    On the number 10 bus this morning from Kings Cross seen a large poster
    of the new 19 16 valve with its reshaped front end and new alloy
    wheels, looked very nice. I'm just a bit surprised that I have'nt seen
    it in any of the motor mags.
    
    
    Regards martin

I spoke to the Renault dealer in Reading and he said that they will be getting 
brochures next week. 

He seemed to think that the engine was staying the same though, I thought I 
heard they were increasing the BHP.

Anybody got any more comments on living with the Saloon 16v.


Shaz

    re:a couple
    
    Greg and his rear wiper :-
    
    I believe the wiper could be of significant value. On the saloon, you
    don't really get a lot of water on the rear screen once travelling
    (although it does appear on the door mirrors ;-) However, it would be
    very useful to clear the rear screen before you drive away from a stop,
    e.g. in the morning.
    
    Performance :-
    
    It is slower below the 4,000 rev mark. I always understood that the
    gear lever could fix this problem by moving it to the left. I don't
    indluge in too much racing, but I can generally keep up with most cars
    on the road if being driven reasonably sensibly. There will always be
    faster 1.8L Sierras doing 105mph in the outside lane ;-)
    
    General :-
    
    It's a great, fun car to drive. Mine has the removable radio, and this
    feature seems to have screwed one of the speaker connections. Not fixed
    after a few atTemepts. However, the new standards stereo should not
    have this problem.
    
    There's rust in the front o/s indicator holder. Dodgy seal seems to
    have let water in, causing occasional failure of the system. Will get
    sorted at next service.
    
    Dash has a tendency to rattle more than I'd like. But, it is a Renault,
    with stiff suspension. And the (working) stereo ususally fixes the
    problem.
    
    The seats are brilliant. The cloth is naff, especially in hot weather.
    But the driving position - yuk. Maybe it's just me getting old (no
    comments Greg), but I find I get a stiff back and pins-n-needles more
    than I should.
    
    MPG average nearly 33. Much better recently 'cause I've been doing more
    long distance motorway miles. My lady was driving it the other day,
    75-80 on the motorway, returned 38-40 mpg, no problem.
    
    I couldn't do without the extra doors. Plus the spolier is lower on the
    saloon, meaning I can actually see cars out of the rear screen !
    
    Overall a brilliant car to drive. I'm glad I got it. Not sure if I'd
    get another, I think my priorities may have changed by then !
    
    Colin

re .188
Colin,


> But the driving position - yuk.


Funny, perhaps your knobs aren't adjusted correctly, the driving
position has been well rated by all reviews.


> MPG average nearly 33


What did the computer say the MPG was after my test drive ;^)

Greg

    re:last
    
    -33mpg ;-)
    
    Actually, it was about 36-37, but Cheryl had been driving it the
    weekend before !
    
    Colin

    The Renault contact magazine says the new 19 is on sale from 12th June. 
    
    Features a new, more rounded frontal design and stylish new tail light
    cluster, improved seat upholstery, revised switchgear and a host of
    equipment additions.
    
    New 1.8 95bhp engine, and 113 bhp 1.8 to a new RTi version. 137bhp 16
    valve engine remains the same.
    
    Greg

    
    I saw a convertible R19 yesterday, is that a standard model?

    
    	I saw the new Renault 19 on a T.V. ad,last night.It's a Beauty.
    (Can I use the word "Beauty" Teacher Winpenny?)
    The front of the car reminds me of the new VW Golf.And the rear light
    cluster is like something off an American car.The sides of the car look
    pretty much the same,but you don't see much of the interior(But there's
    some totty in the front)
    
    	I've said my piece.
    
    	Andy......

    
    The 19 cabriolet is, indeed, a standard production model.
    
    Comes in a low powered version (1.4?) and the 16v version.
    
    Mark

Has the Cabrio been facelifted too?

The new shaped headlamps make the car quite nice looking. I always
thought it a really ugly car before.

Ian

> Has the Cabrio been facelifted too?

Yep, right across the range. Looks very nice in the Renault magazine.

Greg

    When I got home friday there was a brochure on the mat with an
    invitation to a win one on the promotional weekend. I also found a copy
    of Auto-Express for december with pictures of it.
    
    As well as front and rear the dash has been reworked too, it's got a
    curved top, and as a result the centre vents and radio have been
    swopped round (vents now above radio).
    
    Richard

    The Renault dealer in Basingstoke (near the ice rink) has a new style
    16V cabriolet sitting outside - looks very nice indeed with new front
    and rear styling.
    
    I didn't notice much change to the dash - only it doesn't have the
    computer fuel consumption gadget, dials are now black and white, and
    the indicator/wiper stalks are now more solidly built and rounded off
    rather than square. Apart from that all other things look identical to
    the 16V hatch.
    
    Maybe the new style hatch has a different dash to the cabrio?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.
                     

Is there any difference in price?

	Ian

It looked from the TV ad. that the window switches were on the door. Definitely 
better than poking around on the dash!

	Chris

    re .210
    
    If that's true, it's an even better car than the good car all the mags
    have raved about. The only thing I disliked about the 'old' 19 was the
    horrible red and black seats, the electric window switches being
    repositioned is a great idea!
    
    Greg

    The following extract is taken from the Renault advert in Auto Express:
    
    "Beware, the new Renault 19 is impossible to resist. See it, you're
    tempted. Sit in it, you're impressed. Drive it and the seduction is
    complete.
    
    From the sparkling diamond on the sleek new front end to the
    distinctively restyled rear, this new Renault 19 is positively loaded
    with tempting features.
    
    Some, like those beautiful new alloy wheels, you can clearly see.
    Others like tintes glass you can see through.
    
    But many more are waiting to be discovered. Such as a catalytic
    converter, rear head restraints, remote control central locking plus a
    height adjustable steering whell and drivers seat. And speaking of
    drivers, we dont want ours to become heated we've provided heated door
    mirrors ahich are electronically adjustable from inside and the digital
    stereo radio cassette which can be operated without taking your hands
    off the wheel or you eyes off the road.
      Also to keep you cool is our tilt/slide electric glass sunroof.
    theres a redesigned instrument panel and improved upholstery. Plus each
    model in the range benefits from the convenience of a 60/40 slpit rear
    seat.
    Keeping all this safe and secure for only you to enjoy is Renault's
    anti theft protection system, plus on the 16 valve, a full function
    alarm"
    
    Price for 16 valve is 13,175 for the hatch and add 170 for saloon.
    
    Regards martin

    WOW!
    
    So they have started charging more for the saloon, I wonder why?
    
    Greg

    
    
    	Re: .203
    
    	I have just received a quote back from fleet for a 16V 4 door
    	with alarm, I had better get a requote as according to .203
    	it now has one as standard. Good job I read that, otherwise I
    	would have been paying for nothing.
    
    
    			C

    I've now got a NEW RENAULT 19 brochure.
    
    The new price for 16v saloon and hatch is 13,175. It has an alarm as
    standard.
    
    They have also scrapped the garish red and black seats for a more
    subtle version. The electric windows switch is on the car door, the
    drive gets 4 switches, up/down for his side + passenger, 1 switch for
    one-shot down, 1 switch for 1 shot up. Also electric mirror switch is
    on the door.
    
    The orange dials have been replaced by white.
    
    The body shell has been made more rigid, and build quality has been
    improved. This is meant to give a more solid and rattlefree ride.

>>    The body shell has been made more rigid, and build quality has 
>>    been improved. This is meant to give a more solid and rattlefree 
>>    ride.

Must admit I take this with a pinch of salt!. I doubt they've made any 
changes that involve serious re-tooling. Looking at the pictures, the 
full extent I can see is a revised bonnet front end. The wing cut outs 
front and rear haven't changed, neither have the boot apertures or lids. 

Richard

    re .207
    
    The shell rigidity has been increased by the introduction of an extra
    bracing strut, across the roof between the B-posts.
    
    
    Now where can I watch you eat this salt ;^)
    
    
    Greg

    Is this visible, noticeable?.
    
    If so I'm currently taking it (the pinch of salt) with my meal now. :-)
    
    Richard

    Don't know if it's visible, its reported as being there in What Car,
    I'll tell you if I order one :^)
    
    Greg
    
    Ps Too much salt is bad for you ;^)

re my .197 and the reply .198 about the dash.

I got an autoexpress this week with photo's of the new car, your right the 
dash wasn't changed. Double checked the december issue photo's and it 
definitely shows a different dash. This one did look nicer, slight 'eyebrow' 
line to it, and radio and vents interchanged. Also clock moved to centre of 
auxiliary switch line (it currently is on end of line)

Assumption is this was tried then rejected (tooling cost?).

Richard

    WARNING WARNING WARNING ;-)
    
    Picture the scene, morning of driving up to the sales conference in
    Glasgow, gears baulky, particularly 1st, 2nd and 5th. So, I just took
    it into the garage for a check up. 
    
    Last time I had a problem with the gears (17,000m) it was a broken
    spring fouling the gearstick, so I thought that it'd be a quick and
    simple job. After a test drive they said "sorry sir, we'll have to
    strip down the clutch and gearbox" !!!
    
    I got it back yesterday, net result 1 new clutch, at 25,000m !!!
    Apparently the gearbox shows no sign of wear, but the clutch was
    starting to 'seize'. All done under warranty (albeit my travel
    arrangements were knackered).
    
    So watch them clutches, boys.
    
    Colin
    
    P.S. Greg, just *how* were you driving my car ;-?

    Sorry colin, I thought it was an automatic :^)
    
    
    Greg

I HAVE THE OLD SHAPE RENAULT 19 16V SALOON. IMPRESSED BY ITS HANDLING, 
ACCELERATION SEEMS A BIT SLOW COMPARED TO MY OLD RS TURBO, BUT IT DOES THE
JOB.
HOWEVER I HAVE JUST CLOCKED UP 9,000 MILES AND ALREADY THE CAR HAS BEEN IN
THE GARAGE 3 TIMES FOR THE SAME REASON.
IN HOT WEATHER, THE CAR DOES NOT LIKE STOP/START TRAFFIC. IT HAS AN 
ERRATIC IDLE, AND ON PULL AWAY TENDS TO STALL UNLESS 3-4000 REVS ARE 
MAINTAINED. HAS ANYONE HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM, IF SO HOW WAS IT FIXED.

    Interestingly tou mention the RS Turbo - well I had the same problem
    with mine.  It would cut out and not deliver full power (no not whilst
    cut out :-). In hot weather it seemed to manifest itself most. In fact
    you could hear the fuel pump straining and making a really loud
    strimmer type noise. A new fuel pump cured the problem.
    
    Gary.

    Has anyone got/driven the 19 RT diesel turbo yet? It sounds pretty
    enticing, as it seems to have quick performance, yet very good economy.
    
    However, I've heard the downside is noise/ lack of refinement. Can
    anyone verify this with experience?
    
    Do Renault do a factory-fitted air-con option for the 19?
    
    
    
    Stephen

    What kind of delivery have people expirenced with Renault 19 16v's. I
    placed my order with fleet on 27th July, when the quotes etc had come
    back the order was placed on the 13th August, and now PHH are telling
    me the expected delivery date is 29th October!
    
    
    I thought that there was a recession on and dealers were desperate to
    sell cars!
    
    :^(
    
    Greg

    Anyone else got a fairly new Renault 19 16V?
    
    I got mine on Friday, and have noticed a shrinking exhaust problem!
    
    The first models had a shiny huge tailpipe, then it shrunk to a smaller
    shiny circle, now mine isn't shiny and looks just like a normal
    tailpipe.
    
    Wonder why they have done this?
    
    Greg

    Greg,
         you havent got a shrinking exhaust, only a shrinking chrome
         "dress up" bit. If you look up your pipe ! the internal diameter
         is the same, the chrome bit just sits around the tail pipe
         and is purely cosmetic, unlike the exhaust on a Lotus Carlton.
    
    
     Nick.

    Re 218/9
    
    So the delivery date quoted turned out to be almost accurate!

    re .222
    
    WOW!
    
    You get Observant Person of the day award

Nah Greg, i wouldn't worry about the shiny bit up yer bottom... ;-)

You want a car with mud baked on in clumps... ;-) None of this shiny mamby
pamby business! ;-)

PS. I tell you my Jeep was written off because it went through a house? Talk
    about 3D TV! ;-) "Oh look dear, that Jeep looks like it's our own front 
    room!" ;-)

	Clutch cable has just broken at 21000 miles on 19 16v

	:(

    
    Hmmm.... Mine went at 29K (5 miles from a phone box). Was your clutch
    pedal very difficult to depress before the cable broke, or was it 
    easily offended? Since the cable was replaced, I've had no further
    problems with the clutch.
    
    Tim

    
    I like the look of the new Renault 19 and it seems to be a bargain on
    the scheme...anybody found anything particularly annoying or
    problematic with the new shaped version? (except for the exhaust and
    clutch cable...)
    
    Ta, Tim.
    
    PS - Is it still only black, blue, red, white, grey? What about those
    nice convertible colours?
    
         

    No Tim,
    
    You can't have one 'cos I've got one, and yes the colours are only red,
    white, black, blue or grey, but the 'new' red looks ok.
    
    Greg

    	Well i've a 19 16v, its done about 4000 miles and it went into
    the dealers to have some things sorted out.
    1) the centering spring in the gear lever had gone, ie. wobbly
    gear stick. 
    2) the exhaust has been getting noisey, it sounds as though a baffle 
    is lose in one of the boxes, but as usual they couldnt find anything
    wrong and said if it gets worse then bring it back.
    3) the handbrake is pathetic, it wont hold the car on a hill unless
    Arnold Schwarzenegger pulls it on and it only seems to lock one wheel
    which means handbrake turns are impossible. 
    
    Well the exhaust has got a bit quieter so i'll see how it goes, the
    gear lever was sorted out, they said there was also a fault on the
    E.M.S. which they cleared, (this was probably caused by the h.t.lead to
    the distributor falling off about 2 days after having the car, and it
    stopping dead on a roundabout, very embarrasing), and the handbrake is
    still pathetic and i'm taking it back again to have it looked at.
    
    Other than that the only thing i've done is to change the radio, the
    only good thing to say about that is that its got remote control, the
    quality of the radio and the sound of the tape is s*@t (just my opinion)
    so i've now got a decent system in the car, a great improvement over
    the standard one.
    
    Anybody else had any trub with their 16v ?
    
    Nick.

	Well according to Theale Motor Works, the clutch snapping problem is an
	identified problem. Renault will replace the cable with a more robust
	item under warranty on a car up to three years old.
	
	Why dont they just recall them or replace them at the next service?
	Seems they could have some very unhappy customers. Specially if you break
	down miles from the nearest phone in the dark, in the cold, in the wet
	etc. etc. etc.

	David

    Anyone else had a squeaky suspension on their 19 16V? Just driven up to
    Scotland and back over New Year, with a fully loaded car, and the rear
    suspension started squeaking. Doesn't seem to do it with just me
    driving!!
    
    
    Greg

    r	re-1
    
    Greg i've got a squeak coming from the rear of my car at the moment,
    i couldn't tell wether it was the suspensn or the the exhaust moving
    about on a squeaky brack, very annoying though.
    
    
    
    Nick.

    Hello boys,
    
    Known problems at the moment
    
    1)Squeaky Rear Suspension
    
    Had this for a while, sounds like suspension on NSR. It's 1,200 overdue
    on the 36,000 service, I'll mentin it when I book it in.
    
    2)Notchy Gearchange
    
    Had this problem before, RAC diagnosed faulty (i.e. broken spring) on
    gearchange at 17,000m. Replaced at next service. 25,000m gearchange
    very sticky, Renault Warrington took the car in for a few days,
    dismantled it, pronounced the gearbox sound and replaced the clutch.
    Similar problems again at 30,000m service. This time they returned the
    car without looking at the problem, saying the clutch needed replacing,
    it was a nine hour job, they'd order the bits and phone me. 7,200 miles
    later, no phone call.
    
    The notchy problems went away because I belive the spring on the
    gearchange broke and dropped off, so I left it ! Now the problem is
    back, could be either the cold weather or another spring going !
    
    3)Cable to Brake Fluid Check
    
    Cable is becoming detached from the brake fluid check tank thingy. Will
    mention at next service.
    
    4)Renault Dealer Servicing
    
    As bad as Vauxhall, see (2) above. The service manager is going to get
    the sharp end of my tongue when I go to the garage.
    
    As I said to my Dad over Christmas, it is a great car to drive, but I
    don't think I would buy it at the end of the lease, too expensive to
    maintain, too many things to go wrong.
    
    Colin
    
    P.S. I've just put the second set of new tyres on the front at 36,000,
    they were down to 1mm. I also had to put new tyres on the back. I've
    never had to do that on a FWD car before. The spare is now an old tyre
    at 2mm, as PHH would only pay for three tyres.

    Colin,
    
    
    What do you mean by notchy gearbox?
    
    In the recent cold weather I kept missing 3rd gear, is this a similiar
    symptom?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg

    Greg,
    
    That's just lack of co-ordination on your part !
    
    No, missus, don't titter. Seriously, it's 1st, 2nd and 3rd (I don't use
    the other gears). It is very hard to get the car into gear, sometimes
    grinding even with the clutch virtually on the floor. Slowing to a stop
    or brute force and ignorance ususally solved the problem.
    
    Colin

    Actually sounds like the clutch isn't fully disengaged.  I had the
    same problem on a Renault Wagon here in the US.  Proper clutch
    adjustment fixed it.
    
    
    --Dale
    

    I put my 19 16v in for it's first service (6000 miles) yesterday
    with 2 probs for them, the squeaky rear end and dodgy handbrake.
    The squeak was cured by greasing the suspension.
    The handbrake was iffy due to the bad fitment of the pads at the 
    factory, i thought that if it affected the handbrake it would also
    affect the brakes in normal operation ?.
    Anyway the lever felt tighter and had less travel so i thought i 
    would try it out. In my experience pulling up the handbrake locks
    the rear wheels, i tried it on a wet road, down hill at about 15 mph
    and the wheels didnt even lock, it only just about slowed the car.
    Is this a Renault thing or do i have a poor handbrake ?.
    I know its not due to the fact that it has rear discs because my friend
    has an Uno Turbo which has rear discs and his handbrake is excellent.
    I dont have a lot of experience with rear disc handbrakes, how do they
    work, are they hydraulic or cable operated, and how are they adjusted
    if at all, i've got no faith in garages anyway and if it's a d.i.y. 
    job i'll have a go at it myself. 
    So has anybody played with disc handbrakes and has anybody else felt 
    that the handbrake on their 19 is good or bad. I'd like to know.
    
    Cheers Nick.
    

    
    Nick,
    
    My 5 GTT has disks at the rear and the handbrake works well enough
    but would never lock the wheels even in the wet when moving, But then
    again a handbrake is designed to keep the car parked not lock up the
    rear wheels in the wet.
    
    
    regards Martin

    
    rathole warning! :-)  - We're going to have to use a hydraulic
    handbrake for the 23 this year - since the disk calipers we are going
    to be using have no facility for a handbrake. Do you know if MOT
    testers are likely to actually look at the handbrake mechanism?

    
    We're using Formula Ford - (A.P) they may be expensive - but
    they're cheaper than the Alpha Sud brake calipers!  

    
    I know that Jags have seperate calipers for the handbrake.
    
    
    Nick.

    The Citroen GS used a separate caliper on the front wheels with pads
    about the size of an old 10p... I'm not sure about the BX but it may
    well use a simmilar system
    
    Richard

    
    Does anyone have any current/recent quotes for a renault 19 16valve,
    I've just submitted two,one with met. paint & locking wheelnuts the
    other plus abs. I'll post them in the quotes note when I get them back.
    
    Richard (Young)

    The Citroen GS used inboard discs, close to the gearbox. The (non
    transverse) engine was in front of drive shafts. (At least on
    the model owned by a friend of mine).
    
    The BX is a much more conventional car.
    
    Andrew

    My 19 16V has just been in for it's 36,000 mile service (at 37,500m). I
    have had a number of problems, as detailed above. I am very unhappy
    with the service and attitude...
    
    The car went in on Monday. I phoned them at the end of the day (note, I
    phoned them, not the other way around). They had decided that there was
    definitely a gearbox problem this time, and it needed stripping down.
    PHH approved this work, but not any parts until the problem was
    diagnosed.
    
    On Tuesday afternoon, I again phoned the garage, to be told the box had
    been stripped, some parts were needed, and the cost was being sorted
    between Renault and PHH. The parts were on order for delivery on
    Wednesday. The car should be ready on Thursday, but they'd phone me.
    
    Wednesday came, and went. On Thursday I phoned them. Hooray, the car
    was ready. I told them I would like a copy of the worksheet, so that I
    knew exactly what work had been done. 'What do you want that for ?' was
    the response, 'I do not think we are allowed to do that.'
    
    I picked the car up at 5.00. They tell me all the work has been done,
    although a couple of items were not ticked off. No, they can't give me
    a copy of the worksheet because of the Data Protection, and we're not
    supposed to see what PHH are charged. I eventually persuaded them, just
    before I blew my stack, that I couldn't car less about the prices, just
    put the details on a separate piece of paper.
    
    This they did, whilst I had a discussion with the 'After Sales Manager'
    AKA Service Manager. They even tried to persuade me it was my fault the
    work wasn't done at the 30,000m service because I didn't book it in,
    when in fact they told me they were ordering bits and would phone me
    (which they didn't).
    
    They also told me that when the clutch was changed at 25,000m, it was
    completely shot. This is a load of rubbish (I'm feeling polite).
    
    I have phoned PHH, and one of their technical people is going to call
    me back (we'll see).
    
    According to the paperwork, they had to
    
    'Remove gearbox, strip and replace first gear hub and selector shaft'.
    
    I also had two new shock absorbers, new rear brake pads (not bad since
    it has discs all round), and various other adjustments.
    
    The final straw was when the service manager told me that Renault say
    that this is a performance car, and if the clutch/gearbox wore out, it
    must be driver fault. If that's the case, why are they paying ?
    
    Colin
    
    P.S. R19 16V - great car to drive when it is on the road. Service
    skills crap. Customer service, crappier.

Use a local decent garage. In Basingstoke, I now use
Ralphs. They are only 100 yards from the Crescent.

Mark.

That's utter Rubbish about not knowing what Phh are charged. My local 
Renault guy shows me the yellow Renault receipt, and then the PHH credit 
card receipt, he shows the 2 totals match, then I sign the PHH form.

Indeed the PHH instructions say you should check that these totals match!



Move garages fast, Colin!


Greg 

    
    One of my suspension rod/strut thingy-mjingys gave way the other day,
    whilst I was driving (very carefully, for me). It had completely come 
    away from it's mounting and the front passenger wheel was very "floppy"
    indeed. Apparently, this has happened 3 times recently on Lease car 
    19 16vs. National Breakdown reckoned, I'll "never be as lucky again 
    with a wheel as it could have done a load of damage". 
    
    Personally, I don't feel very lucky at all.
    
    Tim  

Well Ive just taken delivery of a Renault 19 1.8i RT.

 I think it looks great, it has a similar sports body kit to the 16 valve and
is a dark metallic blue colour similar to sports blue the car has the five door
body style.

 I cant tell you about how it goes yet as I only had a short test drive at the
dealers some time last November.

 This model has a new engine from Renault: 1.8 multi point fuel injection.

 The figures quoted by renault are power: 113 bhp and Torgue 160 NM (?) That
tourque figure is higher than they quote for the 16 valve, hopefully that
should endow the car with reasonable mid range acceleration.

 I chose this car after my 5 GT Turbo was stolen last year. My first choice of
replacement car was the 19 16 Valve but that was too expensive, I wanted
something with four or five doors for easy access to the rear seats as my wife
and I are expecting an addition to the family in April. I also looked at the
Fiat Tipo 16 Valve ( no headroom ) and the Citroen ZX 2.0 volcane ( total brake
failure during test drive ! ).

 The best thing about my new renault 19 is its driver price, 28 pounds !

 The options I got where:

 Renault Alarm, Metallic paint, Alloy wheels and Leather Seats ( slightly more
headroom ).

 Ill file a report on how it drives when i've run it in.



 Barrie.

    Re: .255
    
    Same thing happened on my 16v on New Year's Day in Bristol - offside
    strut came away from the mounting - luckily only doing about 10mph
    leaving a car park (but 10 mins later would have been on the M4 heading
    home).  
    
    Spent the next 4.5 hours being towed back to Newmarket in freezing fog.
    
    According to my local Renault garage this seems a fairly common problem
    with 21's and now 19's (they'd already replaced the nearside strut
    again due to metal fatigue).
    
    Cheers
    Sue
    
    
    

    
    I can't find the note now but somebody was asking about the new renault
    19 1.8i model and what it was called somewhere in here.
    I think the model you are refering to is the RT1.8i....see .256
    from .256 it sounds like a bargain...shame Ive already got both my
    quotes in, or does anyone know if carfleet will really accept more
    quotes than two...I can't believe they are organised enough to know
    you've already submitted two.
    Anyway back to the RT1.8i I have the brochure in front of me and it
    reads something like this.:-
    
    5 door hatch
    1794cc
    113bhp @5500rpm
    160 Nm @4250
    0-62 9.9 secs
    120 max speed
    45.6 mpg @56 mph
    35.3 mpg @75 mph
    26.4 mpg @urban
    175/65  r14 tyres alloys optional
    no trip computer
    different seat fabric
    otherwise its a 16v lookalike
    includes leccy windows  pas etc
    
    Richard (young)

....only the time it takes to get your second set back means that the first ones
will probably have expired and you may miss out on a bargain.

	Ian

    RE .252
    
    Colin
    
    Do you know this garage went bankrupt a couple of years back as Barras
    Garage and now operate as Belcharm. Renault at one stage actually
    stopped supplying parts because of bad debts. I only use the garage
    because of convience as St Helens and manchester are the only other 
    options. I have had very bad service from them, they never phone you.
    they never tell you anything but I've always had a yellow service form
    so something dodgey was obviously going on when they wouldn't even give
    you that.
    
    
    history for my Renault 19 16v 18months old 29,000 miles
    
    15,000 full exhaust replaced rattle warranty job
    improved petrol consumption after 10,000 miles
    20,000	clutch cable snapped ....replaced
    noisy fuel pump. - I've been told this is an acceptable noise. i
    disagree
    
    
    As previous noters say it's a great car to drive but Renault's
    servicing is the PITS! (..in warrington) 
    
    
    Simon

    RE .255 and .257
    
    
    My Saloon has now done 43K and it's happened twice.Both times the car
    has been loaded up  and on a long journey.
    
    The mounting plate gives way and the strut falls away and is left
    banging around in the cavity.
    The off-side strut came apart from the top mounting plate at approx 35k
    The near-side strut did the same thing last week. At the time I was tootling
    down the M8 at 80mph (I mean 70 of course).
    It was nothing dramatic just some loud bangs and knocks from that
    corner of the car ,it still drove okay  and it was easy enuff to pull over
    to the hard shoulder and await the truck trip back to Manchester.
    
    The interesting point  is that the repairs were done at Renault
    Manchester and they replaced BOTH mounting plates and scribbled the
    date on them. So thay are obviously aware of the situation.
    
     My advice is to keep a close eye on that plate - if you see any cracks 
    or suspicious marks on the plate get it checked asap. 
    
    
    Bernie   

re .255 .257 .262

In the latest edition of What Car? in their consumer feature, they had a person
who has had exactly the same thing happen to them. What Car found that Renault
had issued a recall notice for Renault 19s to fix this very problem, but many
garages didnb't seem to know anything about it. They also concluded that this
is a very dangerous fault, and that Renault should do something about it *now*.

The recall notice was for 19s produced between certain dates, so check these out
if you can.

Steve.

PS. I'll see if I can remeber to bring the edition of What Car in and get more
info.

>>PS. I'll see if I can remeber to bring the edition of What Car in and get 
>>more info.


That would be really useful, if you could.

Cheers,

Greg

    
    
    Are they okay now as I am awaiting delivery of one now?
    It would be nice to think that I wasn't getting a dodgy car.
    
    Richard (young)

All this info is lifted from the 'Awards Issue' of What Car?. The feature in
question was in the Help section, where they try to help people out with any
problems they have with their cars.

The car in question was a 1991 19 16v, and the metal plate which secures the
suspension to the body had snapped completely. 

"Renault found out in August last year that the plate in question was designed
with insufficent research on the stresses the 16v places on it over the other
models of Renault 19. All Renault 19 16v models prior to the facelift in June
1992 were instructed to be examined for cracks which could appear under
prolonged hard use."

Under the section "What to do if you're worried about your Renault 19 16v" it
says:

* Cars concerned were sold between March 1991 and July 1992

* First sign of the problem is a metallic groaning from the car's front end

* The dealer will replace the part free if not already replaced

Renault have said that they  had issued a technical note back in August when the
problem was first found, but it seems that they only restricted this to their
francised dealers, not to the owners of the cars, as is normally done.

This means that anyone who gets their car serviced at a non-francised garage will
not have seen this note, and a lot of Renault garages don't seem to be aware of
this either.

Have fun 8-]

Steve.

    
    I rang Baldocks Renault in Bracknell and was told by their service
    staff that my K 'reg' 16v will be fitted with the new uprated bracket.
    If you are unsure apparanatly you can look under the bonnet, the plate
    is silver and will be painted with a dot or similar if modified.  I
    haven't yet looked at my car so do not know how easily the plate can be
    seen.
    
    Ade.

	So far this column has recorded the following for the
	R19 16v. Self destructing engines, snapping clutch cables
	and disintegrating suspensions. 

	And people still buy them!.

	-John

    Re: .268
    
    Yes, but they are great fun to drive.
    
    Even with all the problems described (and my 19 16v has had more than
    it's fair share !!) I'm seriously considering another one in August.
    
    I'd recommend the 19 to anyone but make sure your local Renault garage
    has a very competent mechanic!
    
    Cheers
    Sue
    

    
    
    I've missed the bit on self-destructing engines where's that?
    I know of someone who wrecked an engine driving through a flood as it
    appears to have the air intake fairly low down and he sucked in water,
    but I've not heard of any other engine prob's except high oil
    consumption.
    
    Richard (young)

RE -1,

>> but I've not heard of any other engine prob's except high oil
>>    consumption.

Way back at the beggining of this notes string there are a couple of entries 
about engines that siezed up because their drivers didn't notice the high oil
consumption. I beleive Renault now warns all new owners about this problem when
they collect their new cars ( aparrently the Clio 16V engine has the same
problem ). The high oil consumption is only supposed to last for the running in
period.

 Re the suspension problem,

  Does this only affect the 16V ?

	Barrie.
 

    
    I think so!

    Since the facelift I don't see any problems in here.
    
    
    Greg (fingers crossed) :^)

    
    Well, my suspension has gone once already (couple of months ago ) and I've 
    noticed that the "metallic groaning from the car's front end" has again
    manifested itself <gulp>, MPG is down to 22 round town too. 
    
    Sounds like I ought to have it looked at asap.
    
    Tim
    
    PS I'd still have another one, too. 

    	
     After 14000 miles in my 16v the problem list is still growing (but not 
    to fast). The clutch pedal has on occasion made a loud bang as if the
    cable has snapped and hit the floor, i pulled the pedal up by hand and
    it "clicked" back in and carried on functioning normally (weird).
    
    The drivers door was making some horrible noises when opening it, at
    the last service they told me it had a broken "check bar". This had to
    be ordered and was replaced. While it was in i asked them to look at
    the handbrake as it was not working very well. (yes i'm still moaning
    about my handbrake), i have mentioned it at both previous services, they
    told me they had adjusted it, and it was ok now, well i didnt think so,
    so i tried again. 
    This time when i picked the car up they told me that the car was put on
    the m.o.t. brake tester, and found that the nearside calliper was not
    working at all. See, i knew it wasn't quite right. A new calliper was
    on order and they would call me when it was in.
    
    This raises the question of what did they look at the other 2 times i
    told them i wasn't happy with h'brake.... s.f.a. Obviously they thought
    i was imagining it and fobbed me off with one of their pre prepared
    statements.
    It also doesn't say much for Renaults pre delivery tests, sending a car
    out with only one rear brake, what else am i going to find.
    Mind you, even with all these problems and niggles it's still a great
    car to drive.
    
    	Nick.

    re. -1.
    
    I find this with a lot of garages. 'Oh, it seemed alright to us,
    therefore you must be lying'.
    
    My throttle cable was sticking, (bit of a pain in a R5 Turbo!), took it
    into a garage and this was their response. It was only after the car
    nearly threw me into the back of the car in front that the problem
    was bad enough for the garage to believe me.
    
    Dave.
    

    I've just had a recall notice on my 16V. It relates to the suspension
    problems we all already know about, i.e. 
    
    "In the course of our continuous performance monitoring of our vehicle
    range" (lots of people have phoned up to complain) "we have found
    that under certain road conditions which may subject the suspension to
    extraordinary shock loading," (you've been driving it, haven't you sir)
    "the upper bearing housing which supports the front suspension strut
    can crack." (will crumble like a mouldy cheese) "This may cause reduced
    ride height on the affected side of the vehicle and some reduction in
    steering efficiency." (When you wake upside down in a field ....) "we have
    therefore actioned a safety recall of all our vehicles that may be
    affected in order that a modification may be carried out." (....call us
    and we'll lie to you about whether it needs fixing).
    
    The recall notice came via PHH, and had no date on it. In fact, I
    received two, one for me, and another for Kieron Chappell (it's in the
    mail).
    
    So, be careful out there...
    
    
    Colin
    

Well my 19 has just started making an intermittent grinding/rattling noise
that sounded like it was coming from the engine.

I took it to the garage and they said it's a known fault. One of the bolts
holding on the heat shield on the catalytic converter has come out.
The garage bloke said it wasn't serious and I could leave it until the next
service, unless the noise really bothered me.

Apparently it's about an hour's job to fix it.

So, what exactly does the heat shield do?
and is it really not worth bothering about?

    I believe the cat has to run at serious temperatures to work properly.
    The heat shield probably stops your carpets smouldering....
    
    Richard
    

has anyone has any recent quotes for the Chamade? (any model)

    The new turbo diesel advert states that:
    
    All 19's now have side impact bars.
    
    
    Greg

My R19 1.8I RT. Came in at 28 pounds which was definatly good value.

 Its worth submitting a quote as they often come out much cheaper than the
prefered list.

	Barrie.

    
    My quota returned at 0 pounds cost for a R19 1.9TD RT. And I am looking
    forward to driving it!
    
    andy

    
    Hi,
    
    I drive a 1993 '19' 16V and yes it is blue!!!  The question I have is
    over the fuel gauge.  I have always been wary of this digital display,
    usually keeping a track of the miles covered on the mechanical trip
    counter.  Now, earlier today driving down the motorway the car starts
    to miss-fire very much like it had run out of juice, yet the gauge
    indicated I had 2.5 gallons left.  I decided to try buying some petrol
    so walked to a nearby service station (fortunate I had just passed it).
    With this petrol the car started no problem, and the fuel gauge decided
    to tell me I was low on petrol...great timing.
    Has any other bod had problems with petrol gauges on these cars?
    If not, just be careful they don't seam to be very good, bring back the
    analogue displays.
    
    Ade.
    
    ps/ I'm to ring Renault and see if they know much about this.

    The fuel gauge is possibly the only thing that has not gone wrong on my
    16V !! (Although it underestimates by up to a gallon).
    
    The latest saga is as follows :
    
    Driving to work yesterday, I'd gone about two miles (enough to warm the
    car up), and I was driving in a traffic jam up a hill. I noticed that
    the power was right down, and the car not firing properly. I had to use
    3000-4000 revs to make sure the car did not stall when I let the clutch
    out in 1st.
    
    When I got to the top of the hill it was worse. A mile later I crawled
    into a layby in the next village. I popped the bonnet and got out of
    the car. Then I noticed SMOKE from under the engine and out of the
    exhaust, along with some serious backfiring.
    
    I decided that this would be a good time to turn the engine off and
    vacate the vicinity. I even called the fire brigade (it looked that
    bad!). When they turned up it was under control. They checked it, said
    it was okay (though it smelt mighty strange), and advided me not to
    drvie it again.
    
    National Breakdown took the car to a Renault garage in Stockport.
    Beware, PHH will only let them tow to the nearest garage, not the most
    convenient. I.e. Stockport = 15miles, Warrington = 20 miles andf is
    virtually next to the office. PHH said Stockport !! Swines.
    
    I got the car back this morning, complete with a new distributor cap
    and leads. They told be that it had disintegrated, badly effecting the
    timing, and causing the aforementioned alarming effects. Sounds like
    smelly bull to me.
    
    It is now booked in for a 48,000 service at its normal garage(having
    done nearly 49,000). I told them the story and they were sceptical as
    well, so I've asked them to give it a good checkover when it is in next
    week.
    
    I told the man in Stockport that this is the woprst car I've ever had,
    and I'm never going to have another Renault. He didn't seem too
    bothered. I think I'll write to the MD of Renault UK, and copy the
    letter to PHH who've picked up the tab for this.
    
    I'm now at the pont where I can't wait to complete the next 10,000
    miles to get shot of the car. Even if they change the sheme to all
    Vauxhalls, a 1.2Merit Corsa has to be better than this lemon.
    
    Yours in total frustration
    
    Colin

    
    I am looking for a 12v supply for a piece of audio equipment in my
    renault 19 16v. Short of taking it from the battery I cannot find a
    suitable supply, as the fuse box is all closed up and hard wired you
    can't simply add a spade connector. Does anybody know where I can pick
    up a suitable supply?
    What I have found is some spare cables under the gear lever gaiter,
    they look like likely suspects but I thought I'd better not play with
    them as I don't know what they do or where they are fed from/ratings
    etc.
    
    Can anybody help?
    
    Richard (young@wlo)
    

    Richard,
    
    Either the cigarrete lighter, or if you pull out the whole plastic bit
    where the cigarette lighter and tray are, you can see the wires going
    to the ciggie lighter.
    
    Greg

    
    
    Good  thinking that man, I also want to switch this supply which will
    be running off to the boot so I can put a switch in the console thingy
    round the gear-lever.(or even remove the ciggy lighter and put a switch
    in the hole therefore removing the need to drill holes, and simply put
    the ciggy lighter back at end of lease!)
    
    thanks
    
    Richard

Why don't you go to a friendly car audio place, and ask them for advice?

The Renault 19 is the favourite Audio car according to one car audio place I
went to!

Mark

    Well this morning's little incident outside DEC Park makes it two clutch 
    cables and one accelerator cable broken in 26,000 miles - is this a record?
    
    The replacement Peugeot 405, with less than 5000 miles handles like a
    row boat and accelerates like a slug. It does have one advantage though
    - you don't need to worry about losing the key because the engine
    doesn't stop when you take it out anyway!!!
    
    Depressed of Basingstoke... 

    
    
    What exactly are you doing to these cables I know several people who
    have them who have no problems at all (except for the obvious
    suspension mounts)
    
    

    
    
    
    Can anyone out there lend (rent) me, or tell me where I can rent
    a roof rack or roof box for a 16V Renault 19. {required from 30/6/93 -
    6/7/93)
    
    I'm off on holiday to France and need the extra space so I can fill the
    boot with beer, wine etc :-)))
    
    Thanks Mike (Viables,UVO, 7-833-3771)
    
    
    

    The next reply is rather long - it is a copy of my letter to Renault UK
    detailing the various problems with my 19 16V.
    
    Colin

    Jim Worsley
    Fleet Operations
    Renault UK Limited
    Western Avenue
    London
    W3 0RZ
    
    
    
    Dear Jim,
    
    Further to our telephone conversation last week, I am writing 
    to you to stress my extreme disappointment with Renault UK 
    and my particular car.
    
    On 2nd August 1991, I took delivery of a Renault 19 16V 
    saloon, from Renault UK in Manchester. The car itself is 
    leased to Digital via PHH. Since I have had the car, it has 
    been a catalogue of problems and disasters, including
    
    o	Missing Trim on delivery.
    o	Incorrectly functioning radio/cassette - eventually 
        replaced at my insistence.
    o	Broken tension spring on gear linkage at 16,000 miles, 
        requiring the assistance of the RAC to enable me to drive 
        home.
    o	Replacement catalytic converter.
    o	Clutch replaced at 25,000 mile by Bellcharm in 
        Warrington.
    o	Suspected coolant leak at 36,000 mile service.
    o	First gear hub and selector shaft replaced at 37,000 
        miles.
    o	New shock absorbers to cure suspension grind at 37,000 
        miles.
    o	Front suspension mounting replaced at 42,000 miles due to 
        recall. (Recall notice arrived after this service).
    o	Fire under bonnet at 48,000 miles, requiring recovery to 
        Lookers of Stockport. Supposedly 'cured' by replacement 
        of distributor cap.
    o	New clutch cable, pedal, and bulkhead modification at 
        48,000 mile service.
    

    Subsequent to the 48,000 mile service (carried out at 49,000 
    miles due to above problems), Willows of Northwich have 
    identified the following work that needs doing
    
    o	Strip down gear box to replace synchromesh/gear hub on 
        third gear.
    o	Replace non-functional oxygen sensor (probably caused by 
        above fire).
    o	Replace damaged spark plug/HT lead (possibly the actual 
        cause of the fire).
    
    I have had occasion to visit all four Renault dealerships in 
    my area, and I am only satisfied with one (Willows of 
    Northwich). The others range from poor to abysmal.
    
    o	Renault UK, Manchester
    
    	Renault UK took an inordinate amount of time to order a 
        piece of plastic trim to replace the part missing on 
        delivery. When it arrived, it was the wrong colour. When 
        the correct colour was delivered, I had to argue with the 
        manager to persuade him to send me the part rather than 
        face a 45 mile round trip to pick it up.
    
    	When the indicator failed, I told the engineer that a new 
        relay was required. His attitude was that I did not know 
        what I was talking about. When I picked the car up, I was 
        told that a new relay was required and had been fitted.
    
    	After persistent problems with my radio/cassette, the 
        garage informed me that there was nothing wrong. 
        Eventually I persuaded the manager to replace the unit 
        with a new one, only to be told that he was not supposed 
        to fit new radios. There had been problems with these 
        units and they were supposed to be returned for repair.
    
    o	Bellcharm, Warrington
    
    	In July 1992, I experienced severe problems with changing 
        gear. I took the car to Bellcharm, as they had carried 
        out the 24,000 mile service. After a test drive I was 
        told they needed to strip the clutch and gearbox and that 
        this would take a few days. I was forced to hire a car 
        for this period. When I returned, I was informed that a 
        new clutch would need to be fitted.
    
    	By the 30,000 mile service, I was experiencing gearchange 
        problems again. I was told that parts would need to be 
        ordered, and they would call me when they were in. 
        Nothing happened. At the 36,000 mile service, the 
        gearchange problems were severe, and Bellcharm had the 
        car for a number of days. 
    
    	New parts had to be fitted to the gearbox. Bellcharm 
        tried to suggest that the parts had worn out due to 
        driver misuse. My previous car (Vauxhall) covered 54,000 
        miles in two years without problem. It is now owned by my 
        father and has covered nearly 80,000 miles, and he has 
        experienced none of the problems I have had with the 
        Renault.
    

    	When I picked up the car from the garage, I asked for a 
        copy of the worksheet to refer to in case I experienced 
        further problems. I was refused. I eventually persuaded 
        the service manager to type me a letter with the details 
        (a copy of this is enclosed).
    
    	The day following the service I checked under the bonnet, 
        to discover that the radiator expansion chamber was 
        virtually empty. It took almost a litre of antifreeze to 
        fill it to the appropriate level. When I telephoned 
        Bellcharm and told them what had happened, the engineer 
        was most unhelpful (almost rude). He asked me how I knew 
        the chamber was empty - even though I had just explained 
        that I had had to take the cap off and fill it.
    
    o	Lookers, Stockport
    
    	On 14th June 1993, I was forced to abandon my car and 
        call the fire brigade when it started misfiring badly, 
        resulting in smoke from under the bonnet and exhaust. 
        When the fire brigade arrived, they examined the car and 
        told me not to drive it again.
    
    	The car was towed to Lookers in Stockport. Lookers 
        diagnosed the problem as a faulty distributor cap 
        disrupting the ignition timing. I find it hard to believe 
        that this caused the effects I have described, and the 
        burning smell that was obvious. Further, when waiting to 
        be served to pick my car up the next day, the service 
        was appallingly slow, with people being seen out of turn 
        because they knew the engineer behind the counter.
    
    I have to say that I do not make a habit of complaining. 
    Indeed, I feel that I have been more than tolerant with both 
    my car and the Renault dealerships, given the problems that I 
    have experienced. The garage I currently use (Willows) are 
    superb.
    
    Whilst my experiences are extreme, both PHH and colleagues 
    with Renault 19 16V cars suggest that they are not unique, 
    and that this model suffers more than its fair share of 
    problems. I am very disappointed in the quality of both the 
    Renault product and service I have experienced. I feel it 
    very unlikely that I would choose Renault again, and I could 
    not recommend Renault to my friends or colleagues.
    
    I would appreciate your comments as to whether my experiences 
    reflect the image and quality that you believe Renault 
    should represent.
    
    Yours sincerely,
    
    
    
    Colin Smith
    
    CC:	Mr M. Gigou, Managing Director, Renault UK
    	Mr K. Jones, PHH
    

>>    Whilst my experiences are extreme, both PHH and colleagues 
>>    with Renault 19 16V cars suggest that they are not unique, 

I've had no problems with mine, but it's under a year old!

Also Colin, I reckon you must have got one of the very first batches, seeing 
as your sunroof doesn't tilt etc etc.


Looks like your car was a beta test release.

:^)

Greg

    The car may be Beta test, but my letter isn't ;-)
    
    Next time you're in Warrington, I'll beta test you with a tyre wrench,
    Mr Hilton, unless something falls off your car pretty soon ! :-) :-)
    
    Seriously, though, have you had the suspension recall notice yet, or
    the free change to the clutch assembly (i.e. Field Change Order) ? If
    not, I'd have words with your garage.
    
    Now, when do I take delivery of my Corsa 1.2 Merit ?
    
    Colin

	Re: .293

	Roof Rack = more room for Frozen Chickens

	Cluck cluck  *;)

    
    re: 1179.295
    
    
    Colin,
    
    
    	I think for the amount of 'grief' this car has caused you the letter
    sent was very tame.
    
    
    	My previous car was R19, not the 16v, and on the occasions when
    there was a problem with the car the attitude of the dealer where I
    bought the car was disgusting.
    
    	The first instance was when the car persistantly 'flooded'. This 
    problem resulted in one visit from the RAC in the carpark in DEC Ayr, 
    five or six visits to the garage. The RAC man said 'this is a common 
    problem, take it to your dealer'. Dealer said 'we have never seen this 
    before, it must be the way you start-up and drive the car'.
    
    	On the last visit, when they actually managed to cure the problem, I
    spent an hour explaining the symptoms and the cure to the workshop
    foreman. On this ocassion as with all the rest I was treated like an
    idiot, they all seem to think the customers have NO understanding of
    the workings of a motor vehicle. The upshot was that they finally
    lookedat the float chamber jet and what do you think, Yes they found
    the problem. Then they handed me a bill for an hour's labour!! 
    
    	The second and the deciding factor with respect to buying an other 
    Renault was when the car was in for a 30k sevice. The day after the car
    was difficult to start and once running was misfiring. When I opened
    the bonnet I found the plug leads for pots 3 & 4 swapped, I restored it
    to its original state only to find the lead to 4 was shortened by about 
    3". I called the garage and demanded that the situation be fixed. Half
    an hour later a mechanic came out with a plug lead and fitted it. This
    sounds alright but the lead looked like something that had been kicked 
    about the workshop floor for a few months, and didn't even match the
    original set. The mechanic when I challanged him about this said 'if
    you want them to match you will have to buy a new set, that'll cost you 
    28 pounds'. 
    
    	When I finally cooled down and was able to speak calmly I called
    the dealer again to talk to the service manager. He was conviently on 
    a half day! It took a rather heated phone call to the sales manger to 
    get this situation corrected.  
    
        So you are only one who has problem with his dealer, these attitudes 
    seems to be very common amongst Renault Dealer employees. On the other
    hand my parents also have a Renault and have no problem with their
    dealership, and its Arnold Clark!! Me, well now have an Astra.
    
    
    Alan.
                                             
    	
    
    
    	

    
    
    Now I am worried my 16V is in for it's first service on Thursday and
    it's going to Herds of Basinkstoke (fingers crossed). So far no problems, 
    except the bolt that hold the drivers side seat belt to the door pillar fell
    out and I had to screw it back in!!!!!!
    
    And a few rattles......
    
    
    Mike. still looking for a roof rack... I can even see how one would fit
    on!
    
    Nigle shut up you silly boy.

    Re: last few
    
    I guess a lot of this boils down to the quality of the garage and its
    mechanics.  My 19 16V is nearly 2 years old (I've had it for one year)
    and it's had a very similar mechanical history of disasters (mainly due
    to the manic driving of the previous owner).  On average something has
    gone wrong with the car every 3-4 weeks, BUT the service that I've
    received from my local Renault garage has been nothing short of
    excellent, largely due to the skill and experience of their chief
    mechanic, and his interest in high performance cars (his skills are
    highly sought-after by RAC rally teams.
    
    As for the other Renault dealers in the area, ...
    
    Yes, there are duff cars, Friday afternoon cars, beta test cars, but at
    the end of the day your perception of the car and the Manufacturer are
    largely down to the quality of service received.
    
    I would certainly have another 19 16V - bit too expensive at the
    moment though, so my order's in for the CLIO 16V - and looking 
    forward to 2nd August.
    
    Sue
    
    

    Dear Mr Smith
    
    Thank you for your letter dated 21st June 1993, regarding your
    experiences with the Renault 19 you drive.
    
    In answer to your final paragraph we do not, for one minute, expect any
    of our products to perform in a manner which leads to the necessity for
    a customer to record three pages of complaints.
    
    On the very rare occasions we do receive such a letter, obviously we
    would wish to fully investigate the complaint made and, therefore, we
    will do so.
    
    Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience caused and after some
    detailed enquiries, I will make contact with you again.
    
    Yours sincerely
    
    JVH Worsley
    Consultant, Fleet Service

    Colin
    
    Its been 3 weeks, any news?
    
    Simon eagerly awaiting Renaults reply.
    

    I took deleivery of my R19 RT 1.8i earlier this year, I have now done
    8000 miles in it and realy like the car, in fact I'd recomend it to
    anybody who fancied the 16V hatch but realy needs the extra two doors
    at the back.
    
     The only problem I have with the car is that I seem to get a lot of
    "hum" on the radio. I have asked the local Renault dealer ( DTM in
    Reading ) to sort this out a couple of times.
    
     Their response is to say that I must be listening to weak radio
    stations and playing bad tapes !, I know this isnt true. I have pointed
    out to them that the frequency of the hum is related to the speed of
    the engine and have even pointed the noise out to them but they have
    not fixed it, and are trying to tell me that all Renault 19 radios have
    the same problem.
    
    Have any of you R19 drivers out there noticed this problem ? Is there
    anyone who will let me try their radio ?
    
    The radio in my car is a 6 speaker phillips set with the steering column
    mounted controls. ( my model does not have RDS ) There is an input for
    a CD player and I am thinking of investing in a portable one to use in
    the car but there isnt much point if the sound is going to be marred by
    the current hum.
    
    	Barrie. 

    Yup,
    
        I've complained about interference to weak signaled radio stations,
    and the service guy did explained, but its something to do with the
    route that the power cable takes, and it being a bad design
    fault...probably the least serious one on the 19 16V that I have. I'll
    put up with it so long as the suspension doesn't leak, give way,
    squeak, engine seize, gearbox sticks, etc. On this car I've had it
    all. I've given up trying to rectify things, and put up with most of
    it.
    
    Sean.

The radio on the Primeria I got recently wasn't working (along with other
things), couldn't hold on to a signal.  I mentioned this to the service dept of
Davenport Vernon, Rosekiln Lane Reading.  Answers were :

You don't get good radio reception in Reading.

Its the dark nights  (I was listening to FM)

The radio was replaced by the same model, this as worked well ever since, even
on dark reading nights !

seems all service departments are the same.

Durelli.

    re:305 - Sean, p'haps we should start a club - the R19 16V fan club
    NOT!
    
    Mine is now back in the garage to have the gearbox problems
    investigated. They stripped it down yesterday, and have ordered 'lots'
    of parts today. The debate will be who pays for it, PHH or Renault.
    Parts apparently include 3rd gear cog, 3rd gear synchro, and a widget
    that is supposed to hold the gears together (forget what it is called -
    something like 'circlip'). It appears that this could be what has
    caused the  problems, and may not have been re-assembled properly the
    last time the gearbox was stripped by a different garage !
    
    I phoned Renault this week to follow up on my letter, and to inform
    them the car was going into the garage, and that I did not expect
    'driver abuse' to be cited as the cause. I also told the guy that I'd
    be interested in what recompense Renault were going to offer me when it
    is all over (if it ever is). "Hmmm, it's difficult to put a value on
    something like that, isn't it" he said. "Yes, that's why I'll be
    interested to see your respone" I replied !!! This is like a bad novel.
    
    He has heard from some of the garages I complained about. Their
    response was generally to blame personnel, who were mysteriously no
    longer with them. I think I detect a funny smell.
    
    Colin_actually_looking_forward_to_a_1.2_Corsa_Merit.

    
    What is it about the R19 16V gearbox ? Mine is now back on the road
    after having 5th gear syncro and cog replaced,the problem now is that
    it `crunches' into 3rd and 4th !!  The garage were unable to explain
    what had caused the problem but thought it might be to do with driving
    fast !! I did enquire as to what speed I should drive at - so that the
    damm car would'nt break - I am still waiting for the reply.
    
    Colin         I hope the garage have ordered the correct parts,they
                  did`nt for mine and it took 5 days to get them - gearbox 
                  parts for the latest 16V are not so easy to come by!!
    
    mine

    My radio has a hum in the right hand front speaker, only noticable when
    I play quiet CD's or listen to the cricket on Medium wave!
    
    Also when I unplug the 3.5mm jack from the radio CD socket the whole
    thing is dead, ie lights on no sound. I have to jiggle it in and out to
    get the sound back.
    
    The local Renault garage said it was a specialist job to fix, and I'd
    have to take it to a specalist car Hi-Fi shop to get fixed. This sounds
    like a load of bull to me, especially as the car is under one year old,
    ie warrannty.
    
    Has anyone had ICE systems fixed at a Renault garage?
    
    I guess I could try the main Leeds dealer..
    
    Greg

    
    re a few back.
    
    Regarding noise from the radio on week stations.
    I was getting it on the Phillips stereo aswell (which b.t.w. i think is
    a crap system). I recently changed mine and have now got a top of the
    range Pioneer set installed, guess what, same problem.
    I spoke to the people who installed it and theysuggested a few things
    that could cause it.
    1)The aerial lead runs up the door pillar along with some power cables
    (for sunroof, interior light, alarm sensor).
    2)The power for the radio does run in a large loom and could pick up
    interfernce from that.
    3)The aerials are crap.
    
    They ran all new power leads direct from the battery for the
    stereo, c.d. and amp etc, so nothing goes through the existing wiring
    loom. It was better but is still there.
    
    Next they suggest either fitting a Bosch aerial which has a built in
    amplifier (as fitted to Golfs and Corrados, and cost #45) or fit a new
    aerial on to the wing. If you go for the new Bosch aerial you will
    still be using the existing aerial coax, this could be changed but
    there is no guarantee that it is not the route it is following that is
    causing it to pick up interference.
    I am trying a new aerial at the weekend, if it fixes it i'll keep
    it, if not i,ll try a new aerial on the wing.
    I,ll let you know what happens.
    
    Nick.

    re:308
    
    It gets better.
    
    Spoke to the garage this morning at 10.15. Parts not arrived.
    
    Garage phoned me at 2.00ish, parts not arrived, but on their way.
    Delivery truck had broken down. Car should be ready Monday. This is not
    a lot of use, because I shall be down south in meetings until
    Wednesday.
    
    Phoned Fleet Operation guy at Renault (Jim Worsley) to voice my
    continued concern, particularly since I shall have to drive around for
    a week in a Rover 214, and be without the carphone that is a vital
    business tool. (No - my meetings are not in Digital offices).
    
    Jim basically didn't care. "Looks like you're stuck with the Rover,
    then" were the exact words. "I'm not supposed to talk to you, PHH don't
    like it, I'm supposed to talk to them". Some heated discussion
    followed.
    
    I phoned PHH to apply some pressure, and to find out why they'd not
    been chasing Renault. The man who usually deals with Digital is off
    sick, but as far as I can tell they've not chased Renault in the last 7
    weeks. I gave forth on my views on both Renault and PHH. This probably
    didn't achieve much, but my objectives have changed from getting my car
    fixed asap to generating grief for anyone in my path.
    
    I have just been speaking to the Fleet Operations Director's PA at
    Renault (the Director is on holiday). We'll see what result we get from
    that !! The phone cut off in the middle of the conversation - p'haps
    this is an omen.
    
    The problem is essentially one of the captive market. I already have
    the car, so Renault have their money. PHH are sole supplier. There is
    no incentive for anyone to help me.
    
    I was feeling quite bullish about the new car scheme. I am now quite
    worried, because I can see us being even more of a captive audience in
    the new scheme.
    
    Oh well
    
    Colin
    
    NEWSFLASH NEWSFLASH
    
    PHH have just phoned (3.30 pm) - Renault have agreed to contribute to
    upgrade my car to a 2.0i Cavalier equivalent. Wow - I got a concession
    !!!!!

    You poor thing.... having to drive around in a Rover 214, What will
    the neighbours say...  *:@)

    Colin
    
    I sympathise with you.  Last year I went through a similar execise with
    car Fleet, Hertz and Toyota.  This despite the fact that Toyota fully
    and completletly admitted that their car was faulty and they could not
    fix it !!
    
    Toyota offered !! to buy the car back but Hertz blocked this saying
    that Digital would have to pick up the incremental costs of early
    termination on the lease.
    
    Toyota offered to replace the car with an uprated version and it was
    newer.  Digital refused because this would be a "second hand car".
    
    I eventually dealt directly with Toyota UK's managing director who
    dealt with Hertz in an attempt to resolve the issue.
    
    Just as I thought things were getting sorted, I got a snotty call from
    Hertz telling me I had had no right to deal with the manufacturer and
    they would sort it out.
    
    Six weeks later (car still in garage (digital paying for hired car) The
    garage phoned and openly stated that they were "sick and tired" of the
    lease company trying to get them to admit to "driver abuse" (the main
    wiring harness had melted and the cam shaft pulley had sheared off).
    
    Net result:
    
    Toyota thought that we and the lease company were stark raving mad !!
    they insisted in buying the car back from the lease compay (no cost to
    me) They also gave me a huge !! discount on my current car.
    
    My faith in Digitals (then car scheme management was reduced to nil)
    
    My opinion of the lease company as an effective and supportive aid is
    notworth putting into print.
    
    My faith in Toyota is high.  At all times they attempted to do the
    right thing and sort me (the customer) and my car.
    
    Lessons learnt:
    
    Deal with the manufacturer direct. If you want to avoid being accused
    of deliberately wrecking your car.
    
    Mail Doug Arnold for assistance as he looks like he is providing a
    realistic control on what was a poor system and is succeeding.
    
    Sorry if this seems negative.  But it still gets to me the way that
    Digital and the Lease company reused to sort their customer out.
    
    Bruce
    
    PS:
    
    My car had SEVENTEEN visits to the GARAGE in ELEVEN MONTHS including
    tow ins trailers (once with a customer in the car) 

    RE: .313
    
    Bruce,
    
    What Toyota did you have?
    
    Dave

    Dave
    
    It was a SUPRA 3.0i well dicumented elsewhere in this conference.
    
    I now have a Celica (Carlos Sainz 4wd variant)  so far I have found
    that to be excellent !! (kiss of death)
    
    Regards
    
    Bruce

Just got my Renault 19 16V delivered. One of the last cheaper Renaults on the
car scheme!

It has to follow my Clio 16V, and 2 previous Renault 5 GT Turbo's.

To summarise, the car is quiet, the handling and cornering is incredibly stable
(must be part of the long wheelbase). The car appears to be well made, with only
one small rattle (due to a missing screw), which I managed to replace.

It has 4 doors, and is just right for my possible future family!

I'm hoping that the performance will get as good as my Clio, but it would be
lovely if it got to be as good as the 5!

Mark.

    Well 42,000 mile service up and third fuel pump replacement. 
    Does anyone else have problems with their fuel pumps, ie noise, loss of
    power?
    
    
    Simon

    I'm coming up to 11,000 miles in mine and no problems with the fuel
    pump so far. However, when I had the R5 GT Turbo, the fuel pump went on
    it at around 40,000 miles. It lost pressure to start with, which was
    okay providing you weren't sitting it stop-start traffic!
    
    Dave.
    

    
    My R19 16V is 8 months old with 27,000 miles and so far the only
    problems have been:-
    
    3 x Oil Pressure Gauges.......there is a known problem with these.
    2 x Exhaust Pipes.............this is also a known problem.
    
    All of these parts have been fitted in the last 2 weeks and they have
    all been of the modified type - not very well modified IMO - but apart
    from that the car has been pretty well trouble free.
    
    Doug

My R19 16v is now on 16,000+ miles and I have had no 
mechanical problems with it,

Small electrical problem. All electric die, Lights,
Computer, Indicators, +
Fix has been to turn the car off and on again. Renault
can find no fault    ???????????????????

Tow bar snapped of at the upright support straps.
Been replaced with a new one.  This has been re-enforced
so must have been a known problem.

Roger

Mine is now approaching 4 years old, and nearly 75K miles. The ONLY problem I
have EVER had with it was a coolant leak from a brazed joint on a manifold
connection near the cylinder head. I put some BLU-TAC on it until I could get
it in to be fixed properly.

	John T.

All R19 and CLIO owners get your clutches checked.

There is a mod required on the clutch cable (not again) and the clutch pedal
that is only being done when the car goes in for a service AND they have the
parts on the shelf. 

If this mod isn't done, you may end up like my wife...Stuck in the middle of
nowhere with no phone and no clutch...


Simon

Curious to know if the clutch cable affects car phones?

    RE:.321
    
    Please tell more about the tow-bar, was it a Renault one, what were you
    doing at the time and was it very hairy!
    
    Richard
    R19 driver with a tow-bar
    
    Ps. I have a rear window sign that reads "If you can read this sign
    I've lost my caravan".......but its supposed to be there for a laugh, I
    didn't really expect to lose it!

RE .-1

I was reversing an empty trailor onto a friends driveway at the time.
( Lucky as I had only just been to the local Breakers yard with a worn out banger)
All I heard was a bang and everything stopped.  Large chunk of tarmac missing from
the road and rear bumber dislodged.

This was dealer fitted (delivered early March 93) and the replacement is a heavier
duty looking unit.

All supporting struts are twice the origoinal size.

regards

Roger

RE: -.1

You were lucky! (See next note for why).

-Steve

anyone else got a problem with even even runing at slow speeds?

I find that if i'am run at (about) 1500-2500 revs (ie crawling in traffic
or searching for a parking space) then the car (16 V) seems to be
runing on kangeroo petrol! one minute it seems as if its about to stall
then it wants to run away with me

its been into the shop twice now to sort this out.. but they are still
looking for the cause

    Try changing up a gear, it will give the engine something to work
    against. You don't need to have the engine screaming at 1500-2500 when
    you are crawling along looking for a parking space. 
    
    Rob

        <<< Note 1179.330 by FUTURS::LONGWY::LEWIS "Amused to Death" >>>
                                 -< Change Up >-

>    Try changing up a gear, it will give the engine something to work
>    against. You don't need to have the engine screaming at 1500-2500 when
>    you are crawling along looking for a parking space. 
    
screaming? at 1500 revs?

    
>Recently had the heater control knob replaced as it fell off
>my 16V
    
    My knob fell off recently too. Hertz refused to pay for it (citing
    driver abuse). Eventually, they agreed to pay half.
    
    Tim

>	My knob fell off recently too. Hertz refused to pay for it (citing
>    driver abuse). Eventually, they agreed to pay half.
>    
>    Tim

fnarr, fnarr.

    re .331,
    	;-)
    
    Seriously though, the type of behaviour I think you are describing
    sometimes occurs if you try to drive slowly in first gear with an
    engine that is chucking out a lot more power than is required for the
    speed. You end up with a sort of feed-back loop between your throttle
    inputs and the cars speed which causes the stop/go effect. By changing
    up, and relying more on the torque of the motor, you dampen out the
    effect. It may be worth the experiment.
    
    Rob

I can see/feel the problem if I drive at 1500-2000 revs in 2nd gear
... the problem seems to be get _better_ if i change down!
(changing up to 3rd stalls the car)

    Of course, this is where my theory falls to the ground.
    :-)
    
    

    
    Came out this morning to start the motor, switched off the immobiliser,
    turned the key and the engine promptly turned over, but wouldn't fire!
    
    Messed around a bit with the key switch for the immobiliser, still
    nothing, so time to call my friends at the RAC!!!
    
    Anyway, an hour later the RAC turn up, checks it all out, umm's and 
    arr's a bit until I mention the immobiliser at which point he focuses
    his attention on this. He plugs the key in, wiggles it about a bit, and
    then he manages to start it up. 
    
    That's one seriously good immobiliser I've got!!
    
    Renault are having the car on Friday!
    
    Dave.
    

The immobiliser is automatic now, and doesn't use an extra key.

I had fun when the lock disappeared behind the glovebox on my last Clio.

Mark.

Hi,

Thought I'd report on my first 6600 miles with a Renault 19 16V.

I'm comparing it with my previous Clio 16V (I had this for 6 months), and
previous Renault 5 GT Turbos.

Performance is fine. It's not in the league of my 5 Turbo's, and not yet as
fast as the Clio 16V was. I think that a lot of it is perception, however.

The power delivery is very smooth, and can fool the driver into thinking that
it doesn't accelerate as well. It does need some revs to really work well.

Handling is absolutely superb. It feels completely unshakeable on corners
(except in the wet), and there is no trace of the nervousness I had with my
second R5GTT.

The ride is the best of the 3 previous cars, although you don't normally buy
car like this for smooth ride. It isn't a match for the best "standard"
saloons.

Reliability has been good too. I never really had any problems with the Clio,
but had quite a few with the R5GTT's.

I took the car in for it's first service at Herd's in Basingstoke with 2
problems:

	- Suspension squeaks when heavily loaded (i.e. 4 people and luggage)

	- Rear demister doesn't work.

They fixed the suspension squeaks (I was amazed!), saying that it was some valve
in the braking system that compensates for heavier load.

They replaced the blown fuse on the Rear demister. They attributed this to the
car phone installation.

Only 2 queries:

What are the gas canisters, and wires going to the seats ? Are they seat belt
pre tensioners?

Why no grab handles for passengers ?

Mark Jeffery

    
    For anybody with a Renault 19 16v.
    
    If you need tyres you may run into problems.
    I recently (about a month ago) needed a tyre after a puncture, so I
    went to my local Kwik-fit, they said we don't keep those in stock they
    are a special tyre made by good-year for the 19 16v but we'll get you
    one , on phoning they were told that good-year don't make these special
    tyres any more, and good-year recommend fittin NCT 2's in pairs only,
    PHH said no fit Michelin MXV 2's in singles. So an MXV2 was duly
    obtained and fitted (as the spare, as I didn't fancy mixing special
    good-years and Michelins on the same axle and the guy at Kwik-fit didnt
    either)
    Well now I need a pair on the front as one is almost on 1.6mm and the
    others not far off, "I'll order you a pair in" said the man, only to
    find that Michelin don't have any available in the country! I guess
    this may be due to increased demand because the good-year specials have
    stopped and big leasing co.'s are recommending fitment of MXV2's.
    The nice man at Kwik-fart said "no problem I'll phone round and find
    some, one of our branches must have them!" ......but he could only
    locate one and that was in Edinburgh (I live in Essex) he's going to
    get one and swap them round so I have the pair of new ones on the front
    and the nearly worn-out one as the spare , even though this involves
    swapping tyres on rims as the spare is a steel rim.
    
    But this looks like it could be a big problem!
    Does anybody know of another tyre suplier that has heaps of them in
    stock? or have any other experiences to add?
    
    Richard
    
    Ps. All four tyres seem to be wearing more in the centre of the tread
    although I am running them at the recommended 28lbs, the man at
    Kwik-flat said it is quite normal to get that sort of wear pattern on
    tyres as wide as that, but do you know different?
    By the way mines done 16,500 how does that compare to other peoples
    replacement mileage?

    
>>>    Ps. All four tyres seem to be wearing more in the centre of the tread
>>>    although I am running them at the recommended 28lbs, the man at
>>>    Kwik-flat said it is quite normal to get that sort of wear pattern on
>>>    tyres as wide as that, but do you know different? 
    
    Richard, I had this problem on my Manta and both 2.8 Capri's using
    205/60 VR13's, the tyre pressure won't really make a difference - unless
    of course you make them too soft, in which case you wreck the sidewalls
    or the car depending on how lucky you are 8^) - the problem I believe
    is the centrifugal force coupled with the wide/low profile....
    
    One tyre place I tried recommended fitting Bridgestone RE71's as they
    have a harder compound in the centre of the tyre, unfortunately this
    would have been a special order due to the 13inch rims, and my tyres
    were already wearing thin...
    
    a second idea was to fit those Continental Aqua things, they have a
    tread pattern with the middle cut out, so only the outer thirds touch
    the road, - They don't do these in 13 inch sizes at all though %^(
    
    Graham 

    re -2   

    What size of tyre's does it use..?  It wouldn't be 195/55/15 the same
    size as the 21 turbo...??
    
    
    
    Steve

    Are you sure its 28 lbs pressure? I'm sure it's lower than that, around
    24 I think.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Greg

    Tyre size is 195/50 15"
    
    Pressure is 28lbs front and rear.
    
    However - the tyres on my new (takeover) car are 205/60 MXV2s, 27lbs
    front, 31lbs rear. Two doors, rear wheel drive, and no bloody rattles
    !!!!!! ;-)
    
    Colin_so_sad_to_lose_his_Renault_NOT !

    
    I also had a problem trying to get NCT 50`s for my R19 16v.When I went
    to Tyreservices (part of Good-Year I believe) they also said they
    were`nt made anymore and that I would have to have NCT 2`s fitted.They
    ordered them and fitted them with no problems from PHH.When I next went
    back for a pair for the rear..no problem...they had 8 x NCT 50`s in
    stock !!!
     The Tyreservices GB Ltd I use are in Workington,Cumbria so if you need
    any then they have quite a few left.
    
    Front set changed at 10500 miles
    Rear set changed at 21000 miles
    New front set needed soon  36000 miles.
    
    PHH have also struck a special deal with Good-Year and they get these
    tyres 250 pounds cheaper!!!!!
    
    Doug
    

    
    
    Doug,
    
    250 pounds cheaper than what? The Michelin MXV2's fitted to the front
    of mine cost 75 pounds each (price to PHH)
    They were frightening in the wet when new, but once run in a bit (200
    miles or so) seem to be okay, although I would say not quite as good as
    the goodyears in the wet.
    
    Richard

    Don't know if it is similar. It was in one of the car magazines, as
    being put into the new Clio Williams.
    
    I fancy the idea myself. I like the idea of controlling the gears, but
    the heavy Renault clutch in stop start traffic is a nightmare!
    
    Mark.

    Whats so bad about the Tiptronic auto box ?
    
    I was lead to beleive that this was a pretty neat piece of stuff which
    for 99% of drivers would have that car in the right gear at the right
    time (Though the driver might not think so).
    
    Took all sorts of things into account
    
    	- engine temperature
    	- forward and lattal acceleration
    	- etc
    
    And you could always use it as a manual 'box if you got board.
    
    The alternative a'la Ferrari Mondial where you have a manual box but no
    (user accesible) clutch has it's problems -especially on Ferrari's
    because the box is still a pig to get in 2nd when the engine is cold
    but the stress is taken by the clutch not the ab-user hence excess
    clutch wear.
    
    	Rik	Who'd like the 6 speed honest-it's-a-911 Carrera and no auto
    		box thank you very much :-)

    Talking of gearboxes what ever happened to "preselector" gear boxes
    which uses to be found on racing car of old (E.R.A. comes to mind).
    With these you chose the gear you wanted via the gear stick but the car
    only changed to that gear when you depressed the clutch.
    
    I can think of a number of times where I know I'm going to want to
    change down a gear just as soon as it won't destroy the engine but
    having to take a hand off the wheel, double-de-clutch, steer and break
    gets a bit much.
    
    	Rik

>>>    Talking of gearboxes what ever happened to "preselector" gear boxes
>>>    With these you chose the gear you wanted via the gear stick but the car
>>>    only changed to that gear when you depressed the clutch.
    

	You mean the Wilson Pre-Selector Gearbox.  As used on Lodon Bus's and on
some cars, the Daimlers come to mind, Rileys too I think.

				Malcolm.

    Now, when's someone going to put one in an R-Type NSX.
    
    	Mugen perhapse ?

    
    re - a few,
    
    On the Carrera tiptronic it would sometimes shit up when you didn't
    need, eg on a short stretch between 2 bends when you applied power
    it would shift up, when you could have stayed in 2nd. It couldn't
    see the road ahead. Course it might just be i'm a crappy driver and 
    I'm prone to over revving ;-)
     

    
    THe Clio's box is a manual box, it just does away with the need to
    declutch when you change. It allows the driver to keep his foot down
    hard all the time and just go up or down the box. Seems to work pretty
    well judging by the Clio's performance.
    
    Mark

>> The alternative a'la Ferrari Mondial where you have a manual box but no
>> (user accesible) clutch has it's problems -especially on Ferrari's

My father-in-law once bought a Citroen CX Estate which had a 'C-Matic' 
gearbox, i.e. gear lever but no clutch.  Trouble is, he found that 40 years of 
driving had sub-consciously 'connected' his left foot to his left arm with the 
result that he'd drive off smoothly in first and then come to a screeching 
halt when changing up to 2nd !

Any idea what could be the problem with my 19V  (its going into the
garage this Thusday for a check out.. but this garage seems to need
all the help they can get)


About a month ago my car suddenly started to make lots of road
noise.. at all speeds.. BUT! only when going straight ahead or
turning right

eg: If I'am doing 30-40 straight ahead or turning right it sounds
as if I have a flat tire.. but (if possible) turning the steering
wheel only a degree or so left of ahead gets rid of the noise completly!!

ideas ? suggestions ?? (other that just keep left!)

ta

Peb

    
    Not a clue mate, but I'll tell you something......why not try racing
    it on an Indy 1 mile oval. You'll have no problems with the noise then!
    
    8-)
    
    JBG

    19V - Is this the official abbreviation for a 19 16v ? :-)
    
    The obvious thing I guess is the tracking. Does the car pull to one
    side ? Is there any indication of uneven tyre wear ?
    
    Royston

	I was going to ask about the Valve configuration for a four cylinder 19v
engine.

				Malcolm. 8^)

                 <<< Note 1179.359 by NEWOA::BAILEY "R = S" >>>
    
    >> ideas ? suggestions ?? (other that just keep left!)
    
    Front left wheel bearing ???  Grab the wheel by the tyre and try and 
    shake it - if you feel some play (i.e the wheel moves and the car
    doesn't) you've got a problem, if it comes off in your hand you've got 
    a bigger problem.
                                         
    

    
    Re .363
    
    Mark,
    
    	as far a saftey goes, ie. stability, stopping etc, you need to look
    for a caravan whose all-up weight is no more than 80% of your car's
    kerb weight. The only sure way to find out the caravan weight it to
    weigh it. The manufactures sales brochures are not always accurate and
    as soon as you start loading it up with crockery, blankets etc, the
    weight flys up.
    	As far as towbars are concerned, I can recommend Witter who make
    units for most models. You may want to consider a stabliser if your
    going to be doing a lot of motorway driving with the van on the back,
    in which case I can recommend Staymo(u)nt.
    	We've been towing now for 10 years. Before we left the UK we used
    to get a monthly mag called Caravan Life. Definitely the best of the
    bunch. Any caravan mag will give you some idea on where to get a towbar
    fitted.
    
    	Wouldn't it be nice to have a Caravaning (& Camping) Notesfile?
    
    JBG 

    re.359 

    >Any idea what could be the problem with my 19V  (its going into the
    >garage this Thursday for a check out.. but this garage seems to need
    >all the help they can get)

    If I were you I'd try another garage. R U expecting a discount from the
    garage for your diagnosis?

    Dave

    
    
    How about your CV joints. These can make quite alarming noises before
    they finally give up the ghost.
    
    Al.
    

    ref .366,
    
    There is a caravans notesfile in the UK, checkout:-
    
         Entry name:  CARAVANS_UK
         File:        TRUCKS::DISK$USER72:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARAVANS_UK.NOTE;1
         Moderator:   LARVAE::SMART_A
    
         Access is not restricted
         Keyword creation is restricted
         Notes may be written
    	
    Norm

I'll check the caravan notes file.

BTW, I just checked the user manual:

For the 19 16V

The Kerb weight is 1135Kg, 85% of this is 964.75Kg

The maximum permissible towing weight (braked) is 900Kg

For the 19 RN 1.8

The Kerb weight is 1045Kg, 85% of this is 888.25Kg

The maximum permissible towing weight (braked) is 1000Kg

Seems really strange!

Mark.

re .359

	Wheel bearing - almost defintely - I borrowed a r19 16v with exactly 
	these symptons, and that was the fix. 
	
	I take it you've have it fixed by now (just checked the date of your 
	note)

re .364

	Royston,

	I thought the second set of electrics was for fridges and caravan power
	etc.... ? ? ? ?

	Can't remember - it was ages ago I wired up my electrics !

Andy

    My January 93 R19 16V (Mark II) has the standard Philips 4x6W radio
    cassette, the one without RDS and TI (traffic information).
    
    I have been advised by a salesman in a Renault dealer that it's only
    one of the Espace models that has RDS and TI.  He tried to sound
    convincing, but didn't really make it.
    
    Can the RDS/TI radio cassette from an Espace be fitted easily in a R16?
    
    Whilst talking of R16s I've had two problems and one incident recently:
    
    1 The fuel pump died.  Apparently they are constant delivery pumps
      which are cooled by the fuel they're pumping.  If you run low on 
      fuel there's a risk that it'll suck air if you're a bit vigorous 
      as you corner, brake and accelerate.  This causes the pump to 
      overheat and in due course the bearings seize.  Remedy is to 
      refuel when the level gets to about 2.5 gallons, not wait for it 
      to reach the reserve level.
    
    2 The oil pressure sensor went and the gauge started waving up and down
      in a most alarming fashion.  Luckily the main agent I took it to
      could do it almost while I waited.
    
    3 I needed a new tyre after about 32,000 miles.  Hertz would _not_ 
      pay for a Goodyear, but insisted on a Dunlop.  However Motorway 
      Tyres were most willing to change two tyres around between rims 
      and three wheels around between axles.
    
    
    Someone asked why there are no grab handles on a R19.  Apparently many
    fleet buyers insist that company cars have sunroofs.  Fitting the rails
    for the sunroof on a R19 takes out the space behind the trim for the
    fixings of the grab handles.  So I guess we'll have to open the sunroof
    and let the passengers hang onto the slider rails!

Hi,

Just wondering what the lifespan of the catalytic convertor on
the 16V is?  I've done 120,000km and is mine due for a replacement?

From what I am hearing recently, Cats are ineffective:
a) when cold and;
b) when more than some period of time/distance has elapsed.

Regarding b), this period is now thought to be MUCH smaller than was previously
thought - like less than two years.

				Malcolm.

    Hi R19 noters,
    
    All Renault Rattle Rocketship (RRR) (R19 16V) astronauts please be
    aware that there is a potential product problem (PP) with your
    terestrial vehicule....
    
    PP desc: when applying boost in 5th gear the gear stick may jump
    backwards, removing boot from boost the gear stick jumps forwards
    (approx 1-2" or 2.5-5cms)  Potential large bumps/jolts may also
    render drive inoperable ie 5th jumps out of gear....
    
    Fix:  NASA (Renault) are aware of the problem and have also informed
    NASA techies, but not astronauts !?!?!  This is an as needed FCO but if
    you suspect you have it the mention it at your next overhaul as most of
    the cost is picked up by NASA.
    
    This pilot has now suffered re-entry in cavalier 1.8LS and it ruins
    your driving pleasure while awaiting FCO parts.... be warned !!!
    
    My RRR model is a K-plate, Mod 1, Mar-93 model, so I think originals
    are O.K. plus later Mod 1's, but check with the NASA techies if not
    sure.
    
    Other problems since orbit have been dodgy oil presure gauge (loose elec
    conn), loose exaust mounting (welding r'qed!), new cat required as
    original holed by foreign object in middle of orbit, lots of oil
    topups!!   Local techies very good + helpful and no real major problems
    since taking command.  Only problem is tyres, Pirelli P600 do not suit
    this model, in my experience, especially in the wet.  Should be
    resolved with ??? (original Goodyears if they can get some ??) when I
    get it back.....
    
    Regards,
    
    - Not looking forward to a GM car -