Conference rdvax::grateful

    Yeah, the Dead are done.  Why don't we just rename this conference
    NECSC::PHISH and keep it rolling.  Let's vote.

    NO way in hell
    
    

    Gratephul Dead phreaks phoment phoul play phor Phish!

    >>Yeah, the Dead are done.  Why don't we just rename this conference
    >>NECSC::PHISH and keep it rolling.  Let's vote.
    
    I vote no.

    Time for another conf!

>    and talk about what I believe to be the best musicians of this century.

    This would be the century starting when?

AHH, UHUHU, NO !

Tom W., right on, what century ??  While I'm not a big phan, my concert 
experience did make me appreciate their musicianship, but best musicians of the
century?  Hmm..well, let's just say that's Way too subjective to get into...

Wes

    
    yeah 
    
    there was this group of guys from liverpool....
    i think they INVENTED music
    
    in my own humble opinion yadda yadda ya

>    there was this group of guys from liverpool....
>    i think they INVENTED music

	wrong again.
	they stole most of their stuff (as did all the english groups)
	from 'murican blues.
	

    regardless
    
    *their* influence has probably affected more musicians worldwide than
    any american blues artist can solely be credited for

	i attribute that to timing.
	and the american media.
	

    and the fact that they learned well...

Beatles/timing/media all that and the "need for America's youth to replace the
image of a flag-drpaed coffin"  I do buy all of that...but while the Fabs did
indeed "steal" (though that's not the best way to put it, in that every musician
who's been influenced by another is stealing) their fave US music and 
re-invented it, Mr. Leblanc's argument to the most influential, yaddy yaddy yah
has it's own merits...

and while it may be subjective to say "so & so were the greatest songwriters of
our time" it can also be argued that Messrs. Lennon/McCartney were indeed among
the greatest songwriters of our time, and the whole century

best "Musicians" hard to say...Aaron Copland, Horowitz, Zappa, Perlman are a
few maestros that come to mind

Wes_rambling

    
    Let's keep the Beatle-bashing in the PHISH notes conf, ok? 

	;-)  

    Yikes, I think I hear Lennon rolling over...

	agreed.
	but, their "worldwide influence" was lahgely due to their coming
	on the scene with the advent of television, imo. (combined with
	other factors, of course.)

	i knew it wouldn't be long before [rhymes with YES] chimed in.
	
	;-)
	
	

  Just for the sake of staying on topic...
  
  I'll vote for Louis Armstrong as best (??? well...) and most influential
  musician of this century.  Any popular, jazz, or horn musician playing
  today has been influenced (by someone who's been influenced, iterate,
  iterate, ...) by him.  Just for starters:
  
  - He invented swing, both as a style of small group jazz (later developed
    for large groups by Fletcher Henderson & popularized by Benny Goodman...
    But every note of big band jazz ever played -- that swings -- is Louis.).
  
    And as one of 3 indivisible elements of jazz (blues + swing + improv).
    King Oliver and Jelly Roll Morton demonstrably did not swing before
    Louis hit in '24.  (Jelly Roll claims to have just happened to have
    invented the same thing at the same moment...  8)

  - He invented the "solo" as we know it today.  What, for example, Eric
    Clapton does, didn't exist as a current of commercial music until
    Armstrong.  I'd also claim (from his late 20's instrumentals, not what
    most people have heard) he was the best at it, bar none, so far.  Bird
    and Coltrane at best matched him.

  - He invented the "popular song" as we know it today in American music, a
    "lead" singer against an instrumental ensemble.  Things Billie Holiday
    and Frank Sinatra and Jerry Garcia and Johnny Rotten do today, he
    started.

    [Scatting, which he's given credit for inventing at the 1925 "Heebie
    Jeebies" session, is only a small part of this, though a key part of
    what characterizes jazz singing.  Certainly everything Billie Holiday
    ever sang "is Louis", as she put it herself.]

  - His level of instrumental virtuosity was unprecedented outside (and to a
    large extent inside) classical music, at least as of 1930 when classical
    players started to hear him.  This current of influence is not limited
    to cornet or trumpet.
    
  - Strictly in terms of trumpet, he could "hit" notes several steps above
    classical trumpeters of the time.  All trumpet music after him was
    affected (even if a particular trumpeter never heard him).

  He was also a prodigious dope smoker and purveyor of slang...  Jerry &
  Phil love 'is ass.  (Well, back on conference if not topic...  8)
   - JayC.

    let's be nice to cris, ya'll......he may not have seen the "jovial"
    bashing some of us give Phish in here before now. DOn't wanna give any
    "newcomers" the wrong impresion about us....%^)
    
    rfb

I sence a little bit of hostility here so let me clear up some things,
I wanted to stir up some people so I added the "best musician" part,
but Phish are muscician(S) (plural) they are a band that can
enter into eachothers heads and know exactly what they are thinking.
To me thats "jamming" in the true meaning of the word. Do you know
of any other band that can take a simple two chord progression and
totaly jam it out and at the same time create a certain mood or feeling?
Being a musician myself I try to listen to ALL types of music. The
Dead seem to be more of a "scene" then renound musicians. How bout OASIS
talk about a Beatles rip off, those guys need to be dragged out and shot.  ME
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

	we *are* being nice, rfb  ;-)
	
	i'll also add, it's a "newcomers" responsibility to look around
	first. get a feel for the place. see what topics already exist.
	etc etc
	
	(nice note JayC.   :-)
	

>Dead seem to be more of a "scene" then renound musicians.


    Oh, man, oh man, oh man.  


    Tom

I sence a little bit of hostility here so let me clear up some things,
I wanted to stir up some people so I added the "best musician" part,
but Phish are muscician(S) (plural) they are a band that can
enter into eachothers heads and know exactly what they are thinking.
To me thats "jamming" in the true meaning of the word. Do you know
of any other band that can take a simple two chord progression and
totaly jam it out and at the same time create a certain mood or feeling?
Being a musician myself I try to listen to ALL types of music. The
Dead seem to be more of a "scene" then renound musicians. How bout OASIS
talk about a Beatles rip off, those guys need to be dragged out and shot.  ME
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

First of all, don't take anything I say about LeBlanc
seriously.  I know he doesn't, so don't you..;-)

Secondly, I think Phish is an exceptional band and a lot of
fun to see once in awhile, but they have a long way to go
before achieving immortality.  I started listening to them
in 1989 or so, from bootlegs that a friend of mine had.  He
went on to a career in studio engineering, and has one or
two credits on Phish CD's (Picture of Nectar comes to
mind...maybe Rift too, not sure)...  But anyway, I've been
listening for several years now, and seen most NYE shows
since then...with great fun.

I think Anastasio is a gifted guitarist and I have often
wondered sometimes while watching him play how he manages to
avoid simply bursting into flames.

I also think alot of Mike's keys...

Fish is ok, imho, but nothing spectacular.  I find his
antics distracting and, at times, downright juvenile.

I hated the lawnmower on stage at NYE a few years ago. 
Stupid waste of time.  On the other hand, I liked the faux
phishbowl stage design of NYE a couple years  ago.  I was
glad to see their stage presence grow up a little.  Glad to
see them focus more on the music - because they're lousy
comedians.

But they're no Grateful Dead.  They're not even close.  The
Dead clearly had a permanent influence on popular music. 
Phish has yet to achieve that - but they do have potential.

The jury's still out.  They may, and they may not, depending
on whether they can stick to their art, and avoid all the
other crap that usually seems to harpoon bands that
otherwise would float to the top -- and over.

As for the single most influencial musical talent of this
century - well, that's a list, not an item...Beatles, Dylan,
Armstrong, Goodman, Miles, Coltrane, it just goes on and
on...

tim

Sorry I should have looked around first. noone forced you to reply though
I guess I should have said that Phish are and always will be
excellent musicians. Good point about Armstrong. As usuall because
I don't wear "hippe" clothes or spend my life grieving over the
death of Mr. Garcia I can see that I am not welcome.
"scene" I meant something for kids to get in to. Smoke dope, not shower
etc. etc.   That was for "oh man oh man oh man" Too many bad vibes in
this particular conference for me so C-ya. I have a Phish show to get
ready for.   Love to be around people who take others for who they are!!!
=)   Later for you.   Shows you what trippin' all the time gets you   6 ft. under!
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

wow... that was kinda wierd...  :^)

for what it's worth, you and other phisheads are indeed welcome...
but rememebr that it is the Grateful Dead Conference!   so you kind
of have to expect folks to have a predisposition towrds the boyz...

you'll find plenty of other phish pholks here too so it's not like
you won't be alone...  just get some good natured ribbing and hopefully
you can take it in stride...

for my part, i hafta agree with manomanoman (was that Tom? :^)

most of us here would probably say that Phish is more scene than
music!  and sort of a next gneration (or x generation) copy of what
was done before by Jerry's kidz...

don't go away... :^)  unless of course, you REALLY want to....

				da ve

    We *ALL* belong, cris....and you are welcome. Something similar
    happened to me when I first came into this conf., I copped an attitude
    until someone pointed out to me that everything is a jest...never trust
    a prankster....most of us are Ok, really....even if we don't seem to
    have the affection you do towards Phish...hope to c-ya in here more
    often..
    
    rfb

Hey Chris yer welcome  here but a debate is a debate.  No need to 
start a note and run off when someone disagrees with you....


and FYI,  "man oh man oh man oh man" is a huge phish head....


and here's something scary - 

I actually agree with something Grady wrote :)



       <<< Note 538.22 by UCXAXP::64034::GRADY "Squash that bug! (tm)" >>>

>I think Anastasio is a gifted guitarist and I have often
>wondered sometimes while watching him play how he manages to
>avoid simply bursting into flames.

That part I agree with...


>But they're no Grateful Dead.  They're not even close.  The
>Dead clearly had a permanent influence on popular music. 

That part too...

>Phish has yet to achieve that - but they do have potential.

Ok,  done agreeing with Tim.  

But when I hear Phish I hear Zappa and Santana plus others....I don't hear
anything unique about the guitar work.  Sorry so if there is a
legacy then would it be, "That Trey can sure get that Zappa/Santana
sound down pat..."

re:  Louis Armstrong

Don't forget the other Louis.... JORDAN!  He's the MAN who get's my

bob

every time i stumble upon the "one band better than the other" thing i very
nearly forget that we live in a free country ...

i'm not condoning anybody's freedom of speech, to look down at a band because
they don't get into that particular band, i'm talking about the freedom to go
out and listen to what you think is cool without having people step on your
toes ... 

somebody might enter a note here and say "moe is the greatest band of all time"
and everybody will say "no, stupid, this is dead-net, so you better agree with
us or get out" ... better to say "you're welcome to your opinion mr. moe" ... 

so when you go home tonight, put on a fine selection of music and drift away to
somewhere you might appreciate the freedom we so often take for granted ... 

Well said, Arm!

The Grateful Dead were part of a scene that blazed a trail into the realm
of improvisational rock.  Jazz had been there a long time.

Phish and others took up that idea, made it their own, and went in
different directions.

That's creativity and individuality.

Neither is better or worse than the other.

Lots of folks I know cannot understand how I can listen to the Dead, Phish,
Zappa and others the same way I listen to Bach, Stravinsky, Berg,
Hindemith or Coltrane, Davis, Mangione, Monk.  

It's all music to me.  Strenghts and weaknesses.  High points and problems.

The freedom to play and listen is very important.  What a wonderful place
we inhabit.  We even have the right to get pissed off, express it, and go
off in a huff!  :-)

	dave

    Sorry for the remark which could so easily be taken negatively.
    Basically I was trying to say it's definitely the music, it's
    naive to think the scene alone could sustain the touring in 
    the absence of genuine musical talent.  I came to view this
    former attitude of mine with some regret.  These guys definitely
    had the goods.  It is a form of musical prejudice to dismiss
    their talent out of hand.  I had to hear them in person to
    change my mind.  

    Tom

    (some of us who bash phish are even keeping an open mind and going to
    see them for the first time next week)

Cris, I hope your still reading...no hostility coming from this conference as
was pointed out...I don't wear "hippie" clothes, and I don't continually mourn
over the loss of Jerry...or Lennon for that matter, and in my musical spheres,
Lennon's loss was harder to take than Jerry's, and still is, mostly due to the
way it happened...drag...I don't think Jerry "tripped all the time" that wasn't
what lead to him being "6 feet under" as you put it...but then again, I haven't
read the Rollong Stone article  :)))

Phish is a good band...there are a lot of good bands and a lot of good 
musicians...let's see, in this conference we have musicians who are pretty good,
and gig on a regular basis...it's all music as Mr. Levy pointed out, and Enjoy
it, don't over-analyze it...So yer a Phish-Head, that's Grate !!!  but this is
a GD conference, with some Phish notes...cool.

There's also a Beatles conference, which sadly is very slow these days, but if
I want to spew on about the Fabs, I go there...

Welcome, don't take your ball and go home, play with us, we're cool folks, even
if we don't share your enthusiasm for Phish (well, some of us don't )  :)))

Wes_who_doesn't_mind_rambling_on_occasion

Sorry guys had a bit of a rough day yesterday. Why is it that
meetings always ruin previous plans? I gave alot of thought to what was said
yesterday and while listening to "Skeletons in the closet" I realized
that ignorance will get me nowhere!!! So could someone fill me in
as to what the Dead set out to portray in the music they played.
Why do they use skeletons all the time? 
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    
    I really don't think the Dead set out to portray much except to get 
    themselves and the crowd off with the music...and wow could they ever.
    
    Deane_headed_to_Plattsburg_for_Phish_shows_but_missing_the_fat_man_
    this_summer

i don't have the source available to me,
but in one of the books i have at home (family album
maybe?)  it talks about how most of the icons
(including the widespread use of skeletons)
were developed and spread by the fans more than
the band...

of course, the name, extracted from an old folk tale,
lent itself well to the skeleton motif...

			da ve

    Phish plays good music, I have listened to some of their stuff,
    have not attended any shows. Please do not end this notes file,
    or combine with Phish, let's keep them seperate. WHy Deadheads,
    and Phish People argue whose better, I will never know.
    I agree with Wes, and his comments about  The Beatles I grew up
    with them, and their "stuff". They are the best .
    
    I am waiting for the trip report from LeBlanc prior to attending
    Phish. 
    
    Tom
    
    

    
    I'm personally going to enforce that Leblanc have a stellar time
    at the Phish show.  I may even make him write down the setlists! ;-)

I have been reading some previous stuff about shows etc. I am
fully captivated and at the same time mad at myself for not taking
to time to go to some shows. =(  Is there still hope? By the way
if any of you would like some of your tapes put on CD I have a
phriend that works in a studio and can do this. I can't do alot of them
and you have to promise not to sell them. Let me know. cost=20-25$
Chris
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    re .38
    now how in the hell can i do that when i only know the one song
    martin's band crammed down my throat sat night and the other one
    David Bowie, known by me solely because those are the only 2 lyrics in
    the whole tune?
    
    i will sit
    i will listen
    i may even dance
    
    but i will not write

I bet you will dance
I bet you will have a great time
by the way to reply to one of your "confessions" about wearing a dress
Fishman wears a dress because he gets really hot playing those
drums.  Watch him for awhile...bet your dumbfounded! =o
The net will have the set list so don't worry about it =)     Chris (see you there!)
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    Whenever I am asked questions like who is better between dead/phish,
    my response usually is apples and oranges!                                
                                      Ross
                                          

That about sums it up!!!! =)
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    I heard there was a riot last night at red rocks..
    Has anybody heard what happened..Ross

I heard someone was shouting "Phish are the best musicians of this
century" and after that complete choas evolved, as he was
beat to a pulp.=)  (Ha ha ha ha)
I seriously haven't heard anything yet but I'll keep my
ears open.
Chris
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    >I gave alot of thought to what was said
    >yesterday and while listening to "Skeletons in the closet" I realized
    >that ignorance will get me nowhere!!! So could someone fill me in
    >as to what the Dead set out to portray in the music they played.
    
    Actually, if you really want to tap into what the Dead are/were about, 
    the so called gratest hits album SITC is like the last thing I'd
    recommend listening to.  Typically non-dedheds try to draw the essense
    of the Dead from this particular abnormally, and hence dont get it.
    
    I love Phish.  I figured tapes, Further, HORDE and Phish would subsidize 
    my insatiable thurst for what the Dead and only the Dead could provide.  
    Phish are a grate band that put a different, though less impressive 
    to my ears, spin on what the Dead did for over 30 years. 
    
    Most Phishheads that I know are Deadheads first.  It is both surprising 
    and sad when I meet Phishheads who are clueless to what the Dead are all 
    about and who think that what the Phish do is somehow exclusively orginal. 
    I suppose its not their fault... Maybe its an age thing.  Who knows.  I am 
    convinced however, that if you like Phish, you can appreciate the Dead
    and vice versa.
    
    j/c 
                                                   

    this from a friend that saw the news Tuesday morning...
    
    500 Phish Phans tryed unsuccesfully to crash the gate, pissed off, they
    then went on a "rampage" in Morrison, the small town right at the
    entrance to Red Rocks, kicking in windows and kicking over trash
    cans... only about 20 people arrested, though, so I question the "500"
    figger.,...
    
    a friend at the Sting concert last nite at Fiddlers say the Phish
    presance was also very obvious there...although my friend doesn't know
    anything about Phish and called the phans "just a bunch of "X", bangin
    on drums"...you get the picture.
    
    My personal opinion, based on how Denver dealt with the Boyz after
    problem runs, is that this is the last time Phish will be in Denver at
    Red Rocks, or maybe anywhere. The Rocks only holds 9000, they would
    sell 13,000 tixs for the dead in the old days. There were about 10,000 
    ticketless PhishPhans from what I heard...
    
    the more things change, the more they remain the same...
    
    but there are a few Phish songs i like....%^)
    
    rfb
    
    rfb
    

I have been reading alot of the topics in here and it feels
as if they have all become my friends. The attitude I definately
share. The memories I do not.=( Although I will never get to
experience the Dead *it* Phish has given me a satisfactory
*it*. I kind of feel like a "poser" though, catch my drift?
It's my fault that I wasn't aware but I'm doing the best I
possibly can. I have to get ahold of some tapes man!!!
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    
    it is most obvious that phish will be suffering from the same
    calamities that fueled the boys' demise.....
    
    it looks as tho phish's downturn will occur much more quickly tho
    nad :^) rfb summed it up best
    
    they are staying the same
    sad to see

Damn us "X" generation kids!
We don't know a good thing when we have it.
If I were to look for a tape should I look for something from
the 90-91 years. Alot of you said these were the Deads peak years.
Chris =)
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    
    chris
    
    1977
    
    1977
     and 1977

    
    
    	Saw the Denver news last night and they spent a couple of minutes
    on this "riot" it showed the police trying to clear the street, the
    police had dogs and horses trying to push the Phishheads outa town and
    they refused to go, they then started to arrest people and put them in
    a van, one problem they showed was they would cuff people put them in
    the van and leave the door open, as soon as the police turned back to
    the crowd the people they had put in the van would jump and run, funny!
    
     They interviewed some local people who said the police over reacted to
    the whole thing,(whats new). At the end of clip they showed a Phish fan
    and a cop shaking hands.....
    
     Divide Dave

(a Phish fan and a cop shaking hands)???
With all this new digital effects nowadays you can't believe
everything you see can you?=)
Also won't it be hard getting a tape from 1977?
Any particular show stick out in your mind?
Thanks a bunch.
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    [Newbie Noter, Old Deadhead]
    
    5/8/77 is always a good choice. Almost anything from that month is
    stellar. As far as going back to '77, I do it all the time :-)
    
    Actually, it is very easy to acquire tapes of the boyz & their earlier
    endeavours. My collection goes back to about '67. Most "completists"
    have access to '65 and forward.
    
    My copy of the above is 1st Gen SBD. I'd be willing to trade for any
    stellar AUD phish shows.
    
    BTW, I went to Sun & Mon Rocks shows. I am most impressed!!! Perhaps we
    can start a tree or two. I will have access to DAT masters for the entire
    August tour, and will be willing to seed them for someone to admin.
    
    /danno

    >>Also won't it be hard getting a tape from 1977?
    >>Any particular show stick out in your mind?
    
    Chris - send me email and we'll talk about this off line - Jeff
    
    					BINKLY::CEPARSKI

    Chris...  you get an "A" for effort dude... :^)  kudos for hanging out
    long enough to find out we were mostly just razzin' you...
    
    no need to "damn" the gen x folks though...  every generation before
    was damned too, and others haved damned the latest crop before you... 
    hwo need the added weight?  :^)
    
    tapes from 77 are really not hard to come by...  i like 73 and 74 tapes 
    also...  and in the 80 before Brent died they were pretty hot too...
    
    					da ve

>    the so called gratest hits album SITC is like the last thing I'd
>    recommend listening to.  Typically non-dedheds try to draw the essense
>    of the Dead from this particular abnormally, and hence dont get it.

    Eggzactly what happened to me.  That album left me cold.

    Tom

>    August tour, and will be willing to seed them for someone to admin.

    Dude!  Yes!

    Tom

    welcome danno
    
    

THANKS!! I don't think I've ever gotten an "A" in my life!!
Except for music class (of course) Oh and Gym.
I just wanted to share with you guys a really weird feeling
I have in my gut right now. It feels as if someone is pumping
nitrous into my stomach! I am getting really excited and I have
no idea why!! you guys are definatley cool cats!! Can't wait to
hook up with some tapes.
Chris (man I better get some work done!!)
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    Chris, make sure you get something besides 1977 dead too. 
    IMO it was not even close to the best dead.

    Target 1969, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1985, 1990, not necessarily in that order.
    10/31/91 has got to be one of thE best shows ever too.

    /Ken

	some good stuff in '89 too.
	
	hampton, va comes to mind. 

    Very easy to get tapes.  The collected DECheads among them probably
    have a large percentage of the available tapes, and keep
    acquiring more.  All availble at no charge, if you discount the
    cost of the blank tape and any postage involved.  And if you 
    find a nearby head, very easy to do in this area, you can usually
    cut out the postage costs.  Tape lists are often available too, 
    but at this point, I'm sure relying on people's suggestions
    should suffice.
    
    PeterT
    

    And while we're at it...Chris, you might suggest a few of your fav
    reels of phish tunes/shows to better enlighten your distant dehed
    cuzins...afterall, phishhedz seem to have a similarly fanatical
    deadication to music and the like.  
    
    rfb sent me a smokin new years eve show, '86.  Jerry on the rebound.
    very cool. thanks again barnesy/ 
    
    j/c 

  I'm fairly new to the Dead tapes scene myself (though not new to the Dead,
  or to live tapes of other bands...  I think it was the sheer vastness of
  friends' Dead tape libraries that delayed me...).

  The majority of shows cited by Deadheads as "top 20" seem to fall into the
  years 69-74, 77-8, and 89-91.  That's just my observation, kind of an
  aggregate of others' sets of favorite years (like wine vintages) and hot
  tapes lists.  So far I've managed to sample all those years except 89-91.
  
  77 sure is a good year -- you can even get a good CD sample, Dick's Picks
  3 I think (mailorder 3 CDs for only $18 or so).  But there are better '77
  shows on tape.  There's the Cornell show (so popular it's a cliche), and I
  agree with the sentiment that Boston just before it tops Buffalo just
  after (but all 3, from May of 77, are great).  Lot of others...
  Like '71, '73, '74 almost equally.

  This is probably a quasi-minority opinion...  I like '72.  Two of my
  favorite Dead performances, which I encountered first on commercial CD,
  are from that year.  "China Cat Sunflower" on Europe '72, and "Cryptical"
  from Hundred Year Hall.  There's another so-popular-it's-a-cliche show
  from that year, Veneta OR 8/27/72 -- includes a Dark Star, a title you'll
  be hearing about.   8)     - JayC.

    
    I really enjoyed Phish's live CD set (the first cd get's the most
    air time).  It's called 'A LIVE ONE'.  Highly recommend the Gumbo
    jam... it's killa.
    
    Sloan

    Thanks for the welcome :-)
    
    FYI, my list is available via WWW at:
    		http://cowie.large.com/tapelist.html
    
    re: Phish tapes from the current tour:
    My friend & fellow taper Marc Nutter is turning out some incredible
    tapes! So far, we've lucky to get front & center in the taper's section
    for all shows. Marc has assembled some top notch gear for this tour. At
    Sunday's show we had over twenty decks patched into his Mics!
    
    Anyway, I'm not certain how trees are planted and nurtured in DECland.
    If someone can step up to the task, I am willing provide the goods.
    
    /danno, aka danno@large.com
    

    Fatal Error 500
    
    Can't Access Document: http://cowie.large.com/tapelist.html. 
    
    Reason: Can't locate remote host: cowie.large.com. 
    
    :-(
    
    	dave
    

    >>Can't Access Document: http://cowie.large.com/tapelist.html.
    
    dave -
    	No problem getting to it from here as follows 
    
    http://cowie.large.com/tapelist.html

	hmm, i got an error and shortened the url to
	http://cowie.large.com/
	which brought up dano's homepage, which had a link for his
	tapelist (nice! in table format) and the url was zackly as he
	posted it:
	http://cowie.large.com/tapelist.html

    Speaking of A Live One...

    I really didn't like Phish all that much until I picked up "A Live One".
    Up to that point I had only heard a couple of live shows I acquired, one
    from 1990 Colorado, and Boston NYE.  Neither really did that much for me,
    but "A Live One" had me floored by the jam in Stash!!  And it continued
    on from there.  It was like, *this* is what the fuss is all about.
    
    A friend of mine feels that Phish really turned the corner musically (ie 
    as musicians) and as a band around 1994.  I'd have to say I agree based
    on what I've heard.   

    /Ken

another Phish favorite:  "Lengthwise"

			:^)

			da ve

    re: -.1
    
    Funny thing happened last night. KBCO was playing a live Phish show
    during their 10:00 PM "Groove". I almost did not recognize them. Stash
    comes on, and it's nothing like A Live One... I think it was the
    Boulder, 1990 show. I'm glad I heard the CD first...
    
    re: my web page: Don't scare me like that... My notebook is undergoing
    an SWB '95 upgrade, and I cannot verify it. That's my linux box. Have
    any ideas for it?
    
    /danno
    
    

    
    to my mind "The Divided Sky" is the ultimate Phish song.

    I'm quite fond of Silent in the Morning.

    RE: 71
         yes Cuz I think it is the Stash jam that really shows how phish
         can jam! I played it over and over again my last drive to NY and I
         never got tired of it.
    
         I incorrectly said it was the Gumbo jam.  Hey does anyone know
         where the lyrics to Gumbo or other phish songs are posted?
    
        Cath

    I got to the homepage. 
    
    	dave
    

re -.74

most of phish' lyrics can be found at their web site http://www.phish.net
if you don't have web access, let me know - i'll send lyrics if you want them


re -.72

i found some funny stuff on phish-net when i was in college ... some lyrics,
some humorous stories, some not-so-humorous-yet-interesting - check 'em out :

lengthwise lyrics :
"when you're there i sleep lengthwise, and 
when you're gone i sleep diaganol in my bed"

alternate lengthwise lyrics :
"when you're there i sleep naked, and when
you're gone i wear your panties on my head"

a lyric from "golgi apparatus" :
"i saw you with a ticket stub in your hand"

alternate golgi lyric :
"i saw you with a chicken sub in your hair"

you enjoy myself lyric (WATSIYEM) :
"washa uffitze drive me to firenze"
(please drive me to the art gallery in florence, italy ... florence = firenze)

alternate you enjoy myself lyric (ala Mike) :
"water your team, in a beehive, i'm a sent you"


~~~~~

>Hello phellow Phish lovers! I have a question. I got tickets to my first
>Phish concert and I'm really psyched, but i'm also worried. I got general
>admission on the floor. So...actually 3 questions:

>1.Gates open at 6:30, show starts at 8, what time should I get there to get
>  a good spot.
 My guess would be to be near the gates just before 6:30 - just a guess

>2.Will I get trampled running to the stage (keep in mind, i'm 14, 5'6")
 Well, there is a pretty nasty mosh pit from the stage to about, oh, 3/4
 of the way back, so I'd just stay aaaaaalllllllll the way in the back.

>3.Will i get the shit kicked out of me surrounded by a bunch of 40 year olds?
 YES! It'll be hard, 'cuz there's so many of them, but try to stay away from
them. If you're in the back, though, that might be kind of hard (they like to
stay away from the mosh pit, too). I know for sure, 'cuz I was surrounded by
40 yr. olds at my last show.

~~~~~

God I hate Phish. They are such f*cking hippy asshole losers. I can't believe
that you pot smoking, no job having idiots can spare some money to buy their
tapes. Don't you spend it all on drugs or on buying big bongs and lawn-mowers
to shave your girlfriends' hairy legs and armpits ?

~~~~~

i love this new trend: "phish was far better when you didnt know about them" 
har dee har har.

there is great debate whether this moment of suckiness came after lawn boy,
after rift, or whenever someone you dislike became interested.again, i laugh 
because, knowing full well the game that this has become, i can only play.

phish sucked the very moment trey struck a string and the sound resonated into
the air for folks to hear it. and so let it be said that the band was horrible
a good while before it was even started. and the "misery never stopped". with
each year, tour, show, song, note, down to the very tapping of a drum or stroke
of a key, phish continues to degenerate. with every beat of the boys pulsing
hearts, with every ounce of air drawn into a lung, with every blinking eyelid,
phish becomes worse and worse.

i feel that im on a roll so i shall continue.

i recall when each respective member of the band was born. THAT was when the
music became a farce to me, and so i cursed out loud, and i ran into the street
screaming vague threats into the night, the band has never been the same, in my
opinion. my only respite will come when the band breaks up, and in fact, dies.
i will be at ease when every bootleg, and every memory of phish is lost. when
this day comes, i will smile, remembering the days when phish didnt exist, and
the phucking great band they were.

God bless America. only place where non-logic seems to make perfect sense.

    re: -.77
    
    1) The lyrics were pulled of phish.net. Phish asked that they be
    removed. Using AltaVista, you can find lyrics to their songs scattered
    around the WWW.
    
    2) "I saw her, with a switchblade in her hand."
    
    /danno

    hey...Book 'em Danno....
    
    
    sorry, couldn't resist    %^)
    
    rfb_prolific noter who knows nothing

    new info about the 'riot' ...a friend of a friend heard on the radio
    that "deadheads" were rioting at Red Rocks......sigh, even when it's
    all gone we *still* get the blame
    
    also heard from TLAWLOR that Sting's guitar player had 2 guitars, one
    with a big stealie on it and one with Jerry on it.
    rfb
    

    those damn deadheads
    
    there they go ruining a scene that isn't even their own

	it begs the question just 'zackly how "they" knew they were
	deadheads. i mean, they cudda been sinatraheads DISGUISED as
	deadheads. no?
	

    
    Sounds like a bunch of bullshit if you ask me.
    
    Whats the number for the radio station?

re -.75 :

here are the lyrics to Gumbo ... if you need lyrics to anything alse,
let me know ... i can make my music directory publicly accessible if
you like ... 

GUMBO

There's a mouse starin' out of the window
His car is trapped in the snow
He's planning a family vacation
But he just can't go

Around the next corner's a red bird
His feathers are trapped in a sling
He's passed by some gunslinging parrot
Who's jealous he ain't got no grin

   There ain't no time to stash the gumbo
C  Or rattle around in a cage
H  The sacrificed child's made bubbles
O  And spittle is everywhere enraged
R
U  Ina hot sand or ina my feet
S  They're blistered and caked with debris
   Chez rolez is guarding the tote board
   While Angry piddles with glee

There's a fool writing notes out on sandpaper
He's sending them off to himself
He gets them a couple days later
Who put them along his top shelf

If you get tired of shavings
And carve up a good hunk of wood
Remembering to check on the sausage
He's got cooking somewhere look good

[CHORUS]
[SOLO]
[CHORUS (2X) a capella]
[GUITAR SOLO]

    almost every male Phish Phan I saw, at the Almanns or on the street, had on
    a dead shirt, (of course so did all of us) and all the Pjish girls
    looked just like deadhead twrilliers...hence the jumping to conclusions...
    
    ...don't know the radio station, don't listen to radio...I'll ask next
    time i think of it
    
    rfb

>let me know ... i can make my music directory publicly accessible if
>you like ... 

I'd like that Armand...

Tom

    heard that the promoter (Fey??) announced this morning that Phish would
    not be invited back to Denver
    
    rfb

    re -.84
    Thanks for the lyrics to gumbo Armand!
    
    I knew there was something about rage in the chorus but I could'nt
    make it out. It's a great sing along song, got it stuck in my head now..
    
      here ain't no time to stash the gumbo
      Or rattle around in a cage
      The sacrificed child's made bubbles
      And spittle is everywhere enraged
    
    Sloan

re: Sloan

    There are more great jams on disc 1 of A Live One, not sure if it's 
    in Gumbo, but they're there after Stash ;-)
    
    Just finished up disc 2 again.  Man, that ~30 minute Tweezer *rips*!!

    Having realized that Phish does indeed get spacy (a prior ignorant
    complaint), _really_ spacy, I tend to like em a lot more ;-)
    
    Can't wait to check this out live...

    /Ken

HEY guys!!
For someone just getting into Phish, I actually recommend going
to a show before buying "A live one". This album rocks but Phish
plays through the crowd (kinda like the Dead) So the audience
plays a big part in the outcome of the show. Go to one and put
in your two cents. If you must I suggest "Junta" for a phirst
Phish Album. IMO it was the best studio work they have done.
Whatever you do do NOT buy hoist. This album was phrightfully geared
for radio play, which it got none of (thank God!!)
Chris *(the newbie who'd rather be Phishing than Phormating)*=)
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

<<< Note 538.90 by NETRIX::"MKOTS3::TAILLON@DEC.COM" "PH PH PH PH PH PHOOLIN'" >>>

> Whatever you do do NOT buy hoist. 

It's too late for that ;-)   It's not bad actually.  Interesting horns
on there!  Especially the tune before Axila which sounds a lot like really
out there Zappa... hate to make the cliche comparison, but I immediately 
thought hot rats when I heard that brief tune.  Wolfman's Brother sounds 
like Earth Wind & Fire! ;-)

/Ken

    Hoist is really good tho I understand the rap against it.  Wolfman's
    Bro is the only loser on it (sorry /ken).  The rest rocks

    Tom    

A guy I used to work for went to school with Trey at Univ. Vermont.
If he was telling the truth, he said the Trey was enrolled in
a medical program. One day after recieving a package in the mail
containing ummmmmmm.. (I like to call it choke) He was overly happy
with the price as he at that time was a poor bastard. He returned
to the sender a human hand that he stole from the lab, with a note
attached reading: Thanks for being a pal and lending me a hand,
thought I'd return the favor. He was caught and kicked out of
the program. 
What do you think? Anyone heard this before?  Chris
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

>  Wolfman's Bro is the only loser on it (sorry /ken)

    No need to be sorry, didn't say it was a great tune, just that it
    sounds like another band! 

    /Ken

You can feel a natural high at any phish show when they get into the spacy
jams ... sometimes they have a cool light show during these jams, but i can't
help but close mine eyes and drift away somewhere i can feel that wide smile
spread across my face ...


favorite "spacy" tunes that come to mind :

harry hood (especially the 12-31-93 version - a must have !  auld lang syne
            spacy jam _always_ sends me somewhere special ... be careful if
            you listen while you're driving in your car !)
slave
curtain
tela


other favorites (not necessarily spacy, but they make me smile :)

makisupa policeman
ya mar
mike's -> groove
tube
foam ( 12-31-92 :)

here's hoping they have a gamehendge set in plattsburgh !
(last gamehendge :  july 8, 1994  @  great woods )

    
    >here's hoping they have a gamehendge set in plattsburgh !
    >(last gamehendge :  july 8, 1994  @  great woods )
    
       If the crowd behaves  well, I believe it is on the agenda for
       the 2nd show.
    	

    hood & slave is some of the most intensely melodic and harmonious
    toonage I've ever witnessed

    re .93
    
    Pure bunkum.  Trey was briefly at UVM, if at all, before transferring
    to Goddard College, a nearby basket weaving school.
    

    
    Anyone know the pointer for the official Phish web page???

    www.phish.com

re -.96 :

>> here's hoping they have a gamehendge set in plattsburgh !
>> (last gamehendge :  july 8, 1994  @  great woods )
>
>  If the crowd behaves well, I believe it is on the agenda for
>  the 2nd show.

on the agenda ? where did you hear this ? is it wishful thinking on your part ?


if we don't get a gamehendge, i'd settle for a tube or mango  :)

    
    Looking at the size of Phish's sets x 6, combined with the road repertoire
    of ~100 songs....you will have to hear all Gamehenge songs at one point
    or another! ;-)
    
    Actually, I have 2 friends in VT (their band is on the Burl. does Burl. CD)
    who are tight with the band , and they said to expect something
    exciting unless the situation gets out of hand. (Gamehenge I assume!).

unofficial songlists from phish' red rocks run this week :


8/04/96  Red Rocks Amphitheatre, Morrison CO
I:   Chalk Dust Torture, Funky Bitch, Guyute, Fee, Split Open and Melt,
     The Mango Song, The Sloth, Maze, Loving Cup
II:  AC/DC Bag > Reba > Scent of a Mule, Sample in a Jar, David Bowie,
     Sweet Adeline*, Slave to the Traffic Light
E:   Theme to Star Trek: The Original Series**, Rockytop
* Acapella, w/ mics
** Page solo on Theremin


8/05/96  Red Rocks Amphitheatre, Morrison CO
I:   Wilson, Poor Heart, Guelah Papyrus, Divided Sky*, Foam, If I Could,
     Julius, The Squirming Coil
II:  Also Sprach Zarathustra, Down with Disease >It's Ice, Halley's Comet >
     Somewhere Over the Rainbow*, Waste#, Talk***#, Trainsong#,Strange Design#, 
     Amazing Grace****, Mike's Song > I Am Hydrogen > Weekapaug Groove
E:   Cavern

* During the silent part everyone sat down by instruction of the Group
  Crowd Ideas at Red Rocks flier.
** Theremin
# Page on a smaller piano, Trey on acoustic, Mike on acoustic bass, and
  Fishman on a smaller drumset.
*** 1st time played
**** Acapella, w/ mics


8/06/96  Red Rocks Amphitheatre, Morrison CO
I:   Makisupa Policeman, Rift#, Suzie Greenberg, Simple, Theme from the Bottom,
     Lizards, Dinner and a Movie, Horn, Run Like An Antelope##
II:  The Curtain > Tweezer*, Prince Caspian, A Day in the Life, Big Black Furry 
     Creatures from Mars**, Purple Rain, Harry Hood > Tweezer Reprise
E:   Johnny B. Goode

# "This is Red Rocks, This is the Edge" from Trey during the break in Rift
## "21 year old Phish Fan Marcus Esquandolius" substituted for "Marco
Esquandolas" (in reference to a quoted fan in a newspaper article on the
disturbance in Morrison on 8/5)
* Norwegian Wood jam
** Thunder, lightning and rain starting in Creature and continuing through
the end of the set.


8/07/96  Red Rocks Amphitheatre, Morrison CO
I:   Punch You in the Eye, Sparkle, Stash, Ya Mar*, Gumbo, Taste, Lawn Boy,
     99 Years**, Ode to a Dream**, Doin' My Time**
II:  Runaway Jim***, Free, Colonel Forbin's Ascent > narration**** >
     Famous Mockingbird, Possum, Life on Mars, You Enjoy Myself, Ragtime Gal#
E:   Bouncing Around the Room, Golgi Apparatus

*  Trey thanks the audience, salutes a Colorado swimmer who won two gold
medals at the Olympics and announces that a special guest will come out
later in the set.
**  With Tim O'Brien on mandolin, acoustic guitar and lead vocal
*** Gypsy Queen jam
**** Giant Iguana takes us to Mars (to check out the Life on Mars :-))
# acapella, with mics



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re                    <<< Note 538.74 by TEPTAE::WESTERVELT >>>
                              -< more favorites >-

    
>    to my mind "The Divided Sky" is the ultimate Phish song.

this used to be good to hear, but now all the idiots want to
yell/scream/rage during the quiet moment when really, i think the
band wants thgem to shutup!

same with the dead.
Attics comes on and everyone wants to be heard.
sit down and shut up, pls!

I heard a BLUES TRAVELLER opener one of the nights in NY.

get ready to rip

Maybe I can hitch a ride with the traveler.  I'm sick

Tom

re:104  Here Hear!!!
Divided Sky could very well be the best jammy jam phrom Phish!!
Well its back to school in September for me. I really have to say
thanks for your hospitality. I will try and get in here as much as
possible. I have only read about 200 topics so far. but for now I
must go back to Umass Lowell and learn how to be a sound recording
engineer.  Ps those of you who offered should be getting some blanks
in the mail real soon.           Music, for some is an essential
part of life. For me Music *IS* life. =)
              C-ya cats, (you big fat jerks)  =)    Chris
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

I've made my music file publicly read-able :

     SUBSYS::R5$USER4:[TURCOTTE.MUSIC]

It contains phish lyrics, the helping phriendly book, phish setlists
from last fall tour and this summer tour, and my current setlist of
tapes ... for your pure reading enjoyment !


off to HORDE, clifford, and hiking the adirondacks !  psyched !!!


i'll be meeting people behind the sound board after the first set on
fryday night, so if you want to hook up, i'll see ya there !

look for the guy with short dark hair dancin in a sporty home-made
tie-dye phish t-shirt  :)

P-H-I-S-H   P is for PHUN thats what I have everytime I listen
to any of the songs by em'
H is for HAPPY this is what my freinds are when I take over the
stereo and put "JUNTA" on at a party. I is for INCREDIBLE, this is
what my phriends say after hearing Phish jam out for a while.
S is for SIMPLE because I still think they are "simply" the best
and H is for HANGOVER this is what I feel after going to a Phish
show and abusing myself with various natural substances, nothing illegal
of course?! =) Chris 
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    whhhooooeeeee...the New Orleans Jazz Fest sponsers, mag writers, etc
    are havin a field day bashing Phish Phans...everything from the usual
    "need a bath" comments to comments from clean up crews about finding piles
    of human feces on the Phish play grounds..."A lot of these people are
    somewhat outside the normal social mainstream. They're sort of like
    cavemen -- they don't live in buildings." fest director Quint DAvis
    
    

It takes alot to offend a native of New Orleans.

    ya...alot of..... PHISH PHANS!!!    ( many %^)'s  )
    
    
                                          rfb

    re .111
    
    Phish will most likely never be asked back to the fest thanks to the
    behavior of the phans last year...  the *only* people that want that
    are phish phans and phollowers...
    
    the phans were collectively clueless and apparently remain so...
    many complaints made by people in town for the fest this year too
    due tot he number of rumors that flew about impromptu phish gigs
    at various places around town...  phans flocked and were blatantly
    contemptuous towards others when the rumors that drew them to a venue 
    didn't pan out....
    
    it's not an anti hippie thing at all either...  there were lots of us
    there and we were all treated very well...  it's an anti rudeness and
    attitude thing...  
    
    comments i got were to the effect of phish phans sudenly thinkin that
    this was "thier festival" and that everyone else at the fest was
    nothing more than a huge opening act...  people bring thier kids to
    the fest...  parents complained loudly that phish phans were stepping
    on them, the kids, being rude and being told that "if you can't take it
    you shouldn't be here" and "you must be stupid for bringing kids to
    something like this"...  
    
    it's interesting to me since i've heard all this with regards to
    deadheads before too...  still, it's curious being on the other side of
    the fence....
    
    this was the biggest crowd, bar none, i was ever a part of...  and it
    was polite, courteous, kind, friendly and more...  cheap beer avaiable
    everywhere thorugh the event...  you could even buy it by the CASE...
    very few drunken yahoos...  and it was no AA meeting either...  lots of
    people doing psychadelics, smoking pot, etc...  but they were kind and
    respectful of others around them...  very cool...
    
    if half of what i heard about phish phans behavir there last year is
    true, then they shouldn't ever go back!!  a good argument for clifford
    ball type things...  
    
    when a whole city cringes, well......
    
    					da ve

    <-------
    
    nelson the bully says
    
    
    
    
    
    			HA HA!