Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    The problem with self-esteem is that it is difficult to separate from
    egotism. On the other hand, God values us enough to have paid an
    infinite price for our redemption. This is a basis for a solid self respect
    that isn't connected to our behaviour, appearance, or others opinions.
    
    
    johN

Good topic, Mike.

You have stated it well.  Yes, the Bible does indeed present
a binary option (Matthew 5:48) - Be perfect or be unacceptable.
Fortunately, God has found a way to make each one of us
(appear to be) perfect.  :-)

However, there is *so* much more than simply our fallen
condition to consider.  We can also consider the love of God
and how much He was willing to give for each one of us.  That
shows that, in God's eyes, we are *very* highly prized - and
our self-esteem should be set accordingly.

In this very short reply, I'll just conclude that as a fuller
understanding of *all* that the Bible says is reached, we are
left with both an appreciation of our total unworthiness as
well as an appreciation of our total worth!

Collis

In his parallel to Matthew 5:48, Luke uses "merciful" rather than
"perfection."  Both attributes seem to be pretty elusive qualities
for human beings to sustain for any appreciable duration.

I've noticed that those who possess healthy self-esteem tend to be
generally more secure and confident.  I've noticed also that people
who seem to have an over-inflated ego are usually trying to compensate
for some weakness or "imperfection."  In other words, egotism often masks
low self-esteem.

Peace,
Richard

    I agree, Richard.  Given the valuable implications of a healthy
    self-esteem, and the correspondingly negative implications of a self
    conception of unworthiness, what are the ways in which a religious
    faith can serve to strengthen self-esteem?  What damage can occur from
    a theology of self-loathing?  And how can that damage be corrected?

    -- Mike

    Adam and Eve, made perfect in God's own image, chose sin and they and
    their descendants became imperfect. God sent His only Son to make a
    perfect sacrafice for all sin and to show us the Way, Truth, and Life.
    Christ has purchased our redemption, but it is for us to claim it and to 
    live in Christ. God supplies the grace, but in our free will we must 
    choose to accept it and keep choosing Christ in our Christian walk.
    
    I would think that Christians should have a healthy self-image, but
    one that is grateful and humble because we know that our health is 
    due to our relationship with Christ. Without Christ we are nothing.
    
    A Christian may stray from the will of God and experience a drop in
    self-worth until a confession and repentance is made. It is the
    action of a healthy conscience which acts as a warning signal. The
    Lord chastises those He loves! We need to face the fact that we do
    fail, but that God loves us and is always open to our return to His
    grace.
    
    We should take to heart that we as Christians will not face any trial 
    (or temptation) that is outside God's provision for us; therefore, when 
    we struggle with temptation and sin we need to seek the strength and 
    victory that the Lord has already provided in Christ.
    
    As sinners we sin; if we try to deal with it ourselves I think we
    end up on of the exremes - self-loathing or a kind of blind pride
    which cannot tolerate admitting to any inperfections. Christianity
    promotes strengthened self-esteem by drawing us to our Savior where
    we can obtain true mercy and forgiveness. When the paraplegic was
    lower through the ceiling on a mat, Jesus first forgave his sins;
    this alarmed many in the crowd since only God can forgive sins.
    
    Healthy self-esteem, therefore, is a self-esteem that 1) recognizes
    it's true relationship to the Lord, 2) seeks the Lord's mercy,
    forgiveness, and healing when found in sin, 3) seeks the Lord's will,
    grace, and strength to maintain a healthy relationship with God through
    Christ. It does not boast of itself, but only of Christ and the cross!
    
    Peace of Jesus,
    
    Mary
    
    
     

Note 363.5

>    what are the ways in which a religious
>    faith can serve to strengthen self-esteem?

Here again I cannot answer for all, but it is very bolstering for me to
know through faith that I am of no small significance to the very Author
of all life, that I am an intimate friend of Christ Jesus (Jn 15:15), and
that I can be a vessel (conduit, instrument, channel) of Divine love and
caring.

>    What damage can occur from
>    a theology of self-loathing?  And how can that damage be corrected?

You cannot give away what you don't have.  Self-loathing can clog the conduit,
I suspect.  Self-loathing can block out the light.

As for the last question, I'm still working on that one; though I suspect
that it would have to be tailored to the individual.

Funny.  Your questions triggered the memory of a friend of mine who, upon
reading the 13th chapter of I Corinthians, became very depressed and full
of self-loathing.  Now this struck me as odd because the 13th chapter of
I Corinthians, frequently called "the love chapter," usually has a very
different effect on people of faith.  But this friend experienced self-loathing
because she felt that, according to the criteria delineated in that famous text,
she had never really loved and she was possibly incapable of ever measuring
up to the perfection that love requires.  Interesting, eh?

Peace,
Richard

    Cognitive therapy is a branch of clinical psychology that focuses on
    our "self-talk".  The theory is that the things we say to ourselves
    influence our expectations and even the outcome of our interactions
    with others.  Negative self-talk is in many ways self defeating. 
    Telling ourselves that we are bad people, that people don't like us,
    and so forth, are the kinds of self-defeating self-talk that cognitive
    therapy tries to address.  Some of the "metaphysical" denominations
    (The Church of Religious Science, for example) apply the same sorts of
    principles in their emphasis on positive thinking.

    Can you carry positive thinking too far?  I think it is possible to
    delude oneself into not accepting the negative events that inevitably
    affect our lives.  There is a certain element of tragedy that we can't
    avoid--such as when we or our loved ones die.  But I suspect that the
    opposite is just as often a serious problem for many people, and it is
    their negative self-talk that causes the most problems.  For them, the
    problem isn't too much self-esteem, but rather not enough. 

    But beyond the mundane realm of psychology, what of the broader
    theological issues that underlie it?  Well, all I can give is a
    personal perspective.  I believe that a theology that proclaims human
    worthlessness in the eyes of God (except for those individuals lucky
    enough to obtain the surrogate worthiness available to them through
    Christ's mediation) does not account for what I consider God's internal
    relationship with the world.  It is a classical theism of strict divine
    transcendence.  But if you believe (as I do) that God is both
    transcendent and immanent, and that what we do affects God, then other
    considerations emerge.  This is the insight of process theology.

    The God I believe in shares in our human experiences.  That means that
    God is infinitely sympathetic, and not only suffers when we suffer, but
    also shares in our joys.  But that is not all; God is also eternal.
    This means that all of our experiences--our very existence--enhances,
    *permanently and irrevocably*, the divine experience.  This is what
    process theologians call "objective immortality".  Far from being
    unworthy of God, every moment of our existence enhances God.  Far from
    being fully self-sufficient in the sense of being independent and
    unaffected by the world, God is *related* to the world, just as the
    world is related to God.  And the beauty of it is that every act of
    love and compassion that we express does not go unnoticed; on the
    contrary, it is objectively immortalized in the divine memory.  Thus
    every thing we do, every experience we undergo, makes a permanent
    difference, because God is eternal.  We exist, but we might not have;
    and it is because we *do* exist that we in a sense enhance the divine
    life.  Thus all of us are, in some way, worthy in God's eyes.

    That is my view of God, and it one reason is why I cannot accept any
    view of human worthlessness.  Because I also believe that God acts
    creatively in the world through continuously offering novel eternal
    possibilities, which serve to lure us towards the divine, I believe
    that God does offers us higher standards against which our actions and
    choices can be compared.  But I don't believe that we are worthless
    when we don't measure up to a higher standard, especially when, after
    all, our finiteness *guarantees* that we often will fail.  

    -- Mike

Re:  .7

I think it is very important to recognize both our worth
(to God) and our unworthiness (before God).  It does not
surprise me in the least that someone recognizes her
unworthiness when reading the standard of love (in I Cor 13).
However, she (just like all of us) should not stay there -
that is why God came to earth!  Yes, we cannot (and will not!)
obey, love and serve according to God's Will.  However, God
can fill us and accept us through His Son, showing us the
worth that He has placed on us (not because of anything we
have done, but rather by His choice).

These two are hard to balance and are too often left out of
balance within the Church today.  A proper balance of these
will provide all the self-esteem we need.

Collis

    Re:  Basenote
    
    Mike
    
    This is a very interesting and important subject.  Many feel as you do,
    and as a result reject religion...but let me try to elaborate and clear
    up this seeming paradox!
    
    Varieties of Christians may present that humans are essentially
    unworthy of God, but that is though we are HE loves us...as it is
    written, "While we were yet sinners (yet unworthy) he sent is only son
    to die for us" and also "We (Christians) love God because he FIRST
    loved us).  So those "varieties of Christians" who teach the
    "unworthiness of humans" to our shame and engender within us low self
    esteem, are failing to include the part about how God still loves us
    inspite of ourselves, or perhaps fail to "emphasize" that part.
    
    Divine holiness cannot tolerate the presence of anything unholy, this
    is true, that's why we are here in this fallen state, on earth, until
    we be made ready for the "marriage" with the Divine...and we WILL be
    made ready, for it is written "I will put my words in their hearts and
    in their minds, and they will be my people"...so we don't have to worry
    about exerting effort to become perfect, we need to exert effort to
    stop trying ourselves to become perfect, let go and let God..."vain
    imaginations and their foolish hearts were darkened"...we need to stop
    with the vain imaginations.
    
    It is correct that "It doesn't matter how close to perfect we might be;
    the slightest deviation from total perfection is enough to make us
    unworthy"...let me ask you this, if I put in from of you a fresh gallon
    of Sparklets water, and in your presence, took an eye dropper and
    squeezed just ONE DROP of my piss into the gallon, would you drink?  I
    hope you'll say no!  
    
    The truth is this.  Truth is 100% pure.  A lie is mixing falsehood with
    truth.  One drop of falsehood mixed into truth, turns that truth into a
    lie.  100% falsehood is not a lie, because a lie is truth mixed with
    falsehood.  For example, if I come home late after work and my wife
    asks me "Where have you been?" I can't answer "I've been on the moon
    chasing mice?"s (100% falsehood), that's not a lie, that's something
    else, fantasy, make believe, something, but it's not a lie.  In order
    to tell a lie I've got to mix truth with falsehood...and no matter how
    little falsehood I mix (the least the better if it serves to deceive
    the most) it contaminates truth such that it becomes a lie.
    
    The point is total perfection is possible, we don't have to mix
    falsehood in with our truth...or do you and some others feel that that
    is a necessary part of life?  Imperfection is a "lie", and not natural
    to the earth.  Malcolm X said, "Wherever there is a lie, there is a
    liar, because a lie is not natural to the earth".  In this he is merely
    restating what Paul says in Romans, "God reveals his wrath against all
    those who hold the truth in unrighteousness, changing the truth into a
    lie (men do that)...vain imaginations and their foolish hearts were
    darkened.  Only men tell lies, animals and other creatures don't do
    this...am I right or wrong.  A lie is not natural to the earth.  So it
    is not necessary that falsehood be mixed with truth, or that we be
    imperfect.  The fact is, the natural truth is, we are already perfect,
    but because of our "foolish imagination" we believe we are not...and
    through Jesus Christ, we experience the "renewing of our minds unto
    salvation".
    
    We are naturally all worthy of God, else why would God have sent his
    only Son to save us?  We are unworthy of God's only after the fact,
    after we reject his love...we make ourselves unworthy of it, but that
    is not natural to us, but due to our vain imaginations.
    
    Low self esteem is self imposed belittlement.
    
    Playtoe

    "My child, treat yourself well, according to your means,
    	and present worthy offerings to the Lord.
    Remember that death does not tarry,
    	and the decree of Hades has not been shown to you.
    Do good to friends before you die,
    	and reach out and give to them as much as you can.
    Do not deprive yourself of a day's enjoyment;
    	do not let your share of desired good pass by you.
    Will you not leave the fruit of your labors to another,
    	and what you acquired by toil to be divided by lot?
    Give, and take, and indulge yourself,
    	because in Hades one cannot look for luxury.
    All living beings become old like a garment,
    	for the decree from of old is, "You must die!"
    Like abundant leaves on a spreading tree
    	that sheds some and puts forth others,
    so are the generations of flesh and blood:
    	one dies and another is born.
    Every work decays and ceases to exist,
    	and the one who made it will pass away with it."

    			Sirach 14:11-19