Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Newsgroups: clari.news.group,clari.news.issues,clari.news.religion
Subject: Episcopal diocese opposes arctic oil drilling
Date: 25 Oct 90 21:07:47 GMT
 
	ANCHORAGE, Alaska (UPI) -- The Episcopal Diocese of Alaska, in a rare
political statement Thursday, came out against oil industry proposals to
drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
	By opposing oil drilling in the refuge, the church supports the
struggle of the Gwich'in Indians of northeastern Alaska and northwestern
Canada who say the drilling threatens their traditional way of life.
	The Rev. Scott Fisher, assistant to the bishop of the diocese, said
he believes the last time the church took a political stand was the
1970s, when it supported Alaska native subsistence hunting rights when
they were under attack in an election measure.
	Underscoring the rarity with which the Fairbanks-based diocese has
adopted a political stand on any matter, it issued its news release
announcing its position only after Fisher visited a library to learn how
such things are accomplished.
	``Political stands are very rare for us,'' he said.
	Fisher said the resolution opposing the drilling plans was
overwhelmingly passed at the annual state Episcopal convention, where 90
clergy and lay delegates representing 40 Episcopal churches in Alaska
with 7,000 members met earlier this month outside of Anchorage.
	``It was a voice vote and there were a few scattered nays, less than
10,'' Fisher said.
	Gwich'in Indian communities in Alaska and Canada are predominantly
Episcopalian and the resolution was introduced by Rev. Trimble Gilbert
of Arctic Village, a Gwich'in village on the southern border of the
refuge that relies almost entirely on caribou that the Indians hunt.
	For its part, the oil industry says the Arctic National Wildlife
Refuge offers the best prospect for a major new oil discovery. The Bush
administration and most politicians in Alaska support drilling in the
refuge, which is now off-limits to development and, so far, Congress has
resisted opening the tundra to drilling.
	A move to open the refuge last year died after the disastrous Exxon
Valdez spill, and the issue remained dormant until the Persian Gulf
crisis ignited fears of oil shortages.
	Oil industry officials say the refuge may contain another Prudhoe
Bay, referring to the biggest oil discovery in North America some 60
miles west of the refuge on the arctic coast.
	But environmentalists oppose drilling in the refuge, which they say
is too precious for development and is the only stretch of arctic coast
where drilling is now prohibited. Wildlife on the refuge includes a herd
of 180,000 caribou that migrate between Alaska and Canada.
	The Episcopal resolution calls for the refuge to receive permanent
protection from Congress by prohibiting future oil development and
recognizing Gwich'in cultural and human rights.
	Fisher said the resolution has been sent to the national church
headquarters for distribution to Congress and that it will be forwarded
to Bush, who is an Episcopalian, as are two of Alaska's three members of
Congress.
	The Gwich'in call themselves ``caribou people'' because their lives
so thoroughly depend on the caribou.
	Although there was little debate on the resolution, Fisher said one
delegate urged support for the anti-drilling measure by calling on
church leaders to ``Remember Bligh Reef,'' which the Exxon Valdez
smashed into last year in Prince William Sound, causing an 11-million-
gallon oil spill, the nation's worst.

    There are many many deep wounds the Native peoples of this land have
    suffered both at the physical and legislative hands of Christians
    who settled here.  As a result we all have gravely suffered, and only 
    recently are we beginning to realize and heal the wounds we all share 
    in this past and present travesty.
    
    		Apology to Native Congregations--
    		    United Church of Canada  
    
    	Submitted to Native Elders and accepted by the Same 
    	on August 15, 1986: 
    
    	Long before my people journeyed to this land
    	your people were here, and you received from
    	your elders an understanding of creation, and of the
    	Mystery that surrounds us all that was deep, and rich and
    		to be treasured.
    	
    	We did not hear you when you shared your vision.
    	In our zeal to tell you of the good news of Jesus Christ
    	we were closed to the value of your spirituality.
    	We confused western ways and culture with the depth and breadth
    		and length and height of the gospel of Christ.
    	
    	We imposed our civilization as a condition of accepting the Gospel. 
        We tried to make you like us and in so doing
    	we helped to destroy the vision that made you what you were.
    	As a result you, and we, are poorer and the image of the Creator
    		in us is twisted, blurred and we are not what we are meant
    		by God to be.
    
    	We ask you to forgive us and we ask you to walk with us
    		in the spirit of Christ so that our peoples may be blessed
    		and God's creation healed.
    
    Prayers were offered in four languages -- Mohawk, Cree, Kwaquilth, and
    English -- and a native dance of victory was held.  Pledges of
    commitment and solidarity with native people and their needs were
    exchanged.
    

    Excerpts from similar apologies made to Native peoples in Washington
    and Minnesota state in 1987:
    
    Dear brothers and sisters,
    
    	This is a formal apology on behalf of our churches for
    theirlong-standing participation in the destructin of traditional
    Native American spiritual practices.  We call upon our people for
    recognition of and respect for your traditional ways of life and for
    protection of your sacred places and ceremonial objects.  
    
    	We have frequently been unconscious and insensitive and have not
    come to your aid when you have been victimized by unjust Federal
    policies and practices.  In many other circumstances we reflected the
    rampant racism and prejudice of the dominant culture with which we too
    willingly identified.  During the 200th anniversary year of the United
    States Constitution we, as leaders of our churches in the Pacific
    Northwest, extend our apology.  We ask for your forgiveness and
    blessing.
    
    	As the Creator continues to renew the Earth, the plants, the
    animals and all living things, we call upon the people of our
    denominations and fellowships to a commitment of mutual support in your
    efforts to re-claim and protect the legacy of your own tradtional
    spiritual teachings.
    
    	The spiritual power of the land and the ancient wisdom of your
    indegenious religions can be, we believe, great gifts to the Christian
    churches.  We offer our commitment to support you in the righting of
    previous wrongs: To protect your peoples' efforts to enhance Native
    spiritual teachings; to encourage the members of our churches to stand
    in solidarity with you on these important religious issues; to provide
    advocacy and mediation, when appropriate for ongoing negotiations with
    State agencies and Federal officials regarding these matters.
    
    	May the promises of this day go on public record with all the
    congregations of our ommunions and be communicated to the Native
    American Peoples of the Pacific Northwest.  May the God of Abraham and
    Sarah, and the Spirit who lives in both the cedar and salmon people be
    honored and celebrated.
    
    Sincerely,
    
    The Rev. Thomas L. Blevins, Bishop	   The Most Rev. Raymond G.
    Lutheran Church in America		   Hunthausen, Archbishop
    					   Roman Catholic Archdiocese
    
    The Rev. Dr. Robert Bradford,	   The Rev. Elizabeth Knott, 
    Executive Minister			   Synod Executive
    American Baptist Church		   Presbyterian Church
    
    The Rev. Melvin G. Talbert,	Bishop	   The Rev W. James Halfaker
    United Methodist Church		   Conference Minister,
    					   United Church of Christ
    
    The Right Rev. Robert H. Cochrane	  The Rev. Robert Brock
    Bishop,				  N.W. Regional Christian Church
    Episcopal Diocese			  
    

    The Friends Committee on National Legislation (FCNL) is a lobbying
    group associated with the Religious Society of Friends, founded in
    1943.  Among its areas of concern are Native American issues.  This is
    reflected in its 1988 statement of legislative priorities for the 101st
    Congress, which includes a section on this topic:

    	o  We will work in cooperation with Native American tribes,
    	    villages, communities, and organizations to support:
		- self-determination, religious freedom, and economic
    		    self-reliance for Native American communities;
		- fulfillment of federal trust responsibilities, including
    		    attention to health services, education, and child 
    		    welfare; 
		- observation of treaty rights and the sovereignty of
    		    Indian nations.

    The FCNL discusses Native American issues in its monthly newsletter,
    and also publishes a quarterly Indian Report.

    -- Mike

Article          588
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (DAVID E. ANDERSON, UPI Religion Writer)
Newsgroups: clari.news.religion,clari.news.features
Subject: Bishops seek balance in Columbus festivities
Date: 23 Nov 90 00:05:35 GMT
 
_ _R_e_l_i_g_i_o_n_ _i_n_ _A_m_e_r_i_c_a
	In the coming two years the nation will be swallowed up in pageants,
celebrations and other festivities marking the 500th anniversary of
Christopher Columbus's arrival in the Americas in 1492.
	It will also be a time of controversy and conflict, historical
finger-pointing and judgment rendering as historians, theologians,
pundits and just plain citizens seek to assess the legacy of the
encounter of the Old World and the New.
	Smack in the middle of the debate will be the close connection
between colonialism and Christianity, the conquistadors and the
missionaries -- all neatly symbolized in the person of Columbus.
	The nation's Roman Catholic bishops are trying to strike a balance as
they map their own plans to celebrate the 500 years of the Catholic
Christianity Columbus brought to the New World and evangelizing efforts
of the missionaries from Catholic Spain who spread across both North and
South America in the wake of Columbus's discovery.
	During their annual fall meeting in mid-November, the bishops adopted
a 40-page pastoral letter, ``Heritage and Hope: Evangelization in
America,'' that both looks back to the origins of the Old and New World
encounter and forward to the continuing task of spreading the gospel in
the Americas.
	It seeks to give a balanced reading of the Columbian legacy.
	But a number of groups are uncomfortable with the whole notion of
celebrating the European conquest of the Americas.
	``The only thing Columbus really discovered was that he was lost,''
according to George Tinker, an Osage Indian who teaches at the Iliff
School of Theology in Denver, Colo.
	In May, the National Council of Churches adopted a resolution arguing
that ``for the indigenous peoples of North America, it brought slavery,
genocide, economic exploitation and a deep level of institutional racism
and moral decadence.''
	``The church, with few exceptions, accompanied and legitimized this
exploitation,'' the 32-member Protestant and Orthodox ecumenical agency
said.
	The Catholic statement generally acknowledged the NCC point, but also
presented another view.
	``The encounter with the Europeans was a harsh and painful one for
the indigenous peoples,'' the bishops said. ``The first wave of European
colonialization was accompanied by destruction of Indian civilization,
the violent usurpation of Indian lands, and the brutalization of their
inhabitants.''
	But it said, ``that is not the whole picture.''
	``The notion that Catholic Spain was uniquely cruel and violent in
the administration of its colonies in the New World is simply untrue,''
and it praises Spain for bringing many of the ``cultural refinements''
of the Renaissance to the New World.
	And, it said, the unprecedented missionary effort, which reshaped the
map of the church ``brought to the peoples of this land the gift of the
Christian faith with its power of humanity and salvation, dignity and
fraternity, justice and love.''
	Of Columbus himself, the pastoral said that he was a ``complex man
whose journeys to America were motivated by forces ranging from self-
interest to piety.''
	``In him, as in the whole experience of the encounter between Old and
New Worlds, the process was complex. ... Human weakness coexisted with
virtue; openness with prejudice; charity with injustice.''
	In adopting the pastoral letter, the bishops also said they hope the
observances will ``give special attention to the condition of Native
Americans'' and extends an apology and a pledge to ``work with them to
ensure their just rights and perservation of their cultural heritage.''
 _a_d_v_ _f_r_i_ _n_o_v_ _2_3

    While not disagreeing that generally, European Christians failed our
    Christ in relations with Native Americans, I would like to point out
    that one of the reasons Pennsylvania was so prosperous during the
    colonial period was that the Friends had such harmonious relations with
    the Native Americans.  
    
    Closer to me personally is the story of the Moravian Church, the church
    of my forefathers.  Their mission in Gnadenhutten, Ohio, was a model of
    peaceful and loving co-existence, until they were overrun and
    slaughtered by whites and (I think) other Native Americans.
    
    DR

    	Having a touch of Nordic blood in my veins and a bit of serious
    education in my background, I think I'll give 1992 all the special
    attention it deserves and ignore the idiocy around me as I go about my
    business. I don't know that my "cousins" treated the natives any better
    in Newfoundland than did later Europeans, they could certainly not have
    done much worse.

        I just watched "Dances with Wolves".

        It was an incredibly beautiful, powerful, and haunting movie.

        It made me, as an American of European extraction, feel
        dirty and ashamed.

        It is ironic how many American Christians, especially
        conservatives, can claim that so many of the best things of
        America's past were a result of a widespread real Christian
        faith, and yet brush aside any relationship between that
        faith (as understood) and the enormous twin atrocities of
        Native American slaughter and black slavery.  How can we claim
        influence sufficient to create all that appeared to be good,
        yet claim a lack of influence as a defense against charges of
        complacency and cooperation?

        Some good may have come out of a traditional understanding of
        Christianity, yet so much more is yet to be learned!  We must
        not yearn for the old days of Christian America, but rather
        for days yet to come when Christ truly is known by Americans.

        Bob

    
    I went to see "Dances With Wolves," last week, and I'm now reading the
    book. So far the movie is as good as the book. 

    It was the first movie that I recall, that the audience was cheering
    for the Indians beating the white man.

    Now that more and more people are seeing the movie, I don't doubt that
    having Indian blood in you will become a new status symbol. Kind of
    like beepers were a few years ago. Have you noticed more and more people 
    telling you how they have Indian  blood in them ?


    Peace
    Jim

    
    
    Jim,
    
    I think the movie will have somewhat of the effect you are speaking
    about, but the Native American culture has been embraced over the
    past few years by many people.  For myself, I do not have any
    Native American blood but have been attending many workshops given
    by NA teachers and have read many books about their spirituality.
    My trip to the Southwest last year was much more meaningful because
    of this.  I also have a number of friends who, for the past 3 years,
    have been going to Montana to study for 2 weeks in the summer. 
    This is much more widespread that you may have realized.
    
    I now have my own drums and rattles and smudge sticks which I use
    for visioning and healing.  I would also love to do a sweat lodge
    ceremony in the spring, and an overnight vision quest.
    
    Carole

    RE:-1
    Carole
          I here what you are saying. 

    If you haven't read it yet, I would recommend a book called,
    "Death Of A Great Spirit." I don't recall the author's name,
    but he speaks of the Spirit of the Native American, and where
    it stands today. He addresses, many misconceptions well intention
    white people have when they attempt to help Native Americans.

    BTW, there is a store in Ashburnham, Mass. called,
    Silver Hawk. They have Native American artifacts and jewelry.

    OH, and if you ever get a chance to see a show on bird of prey, by
    Julie Collier, do so. She is half American Indian. As well as giving
    you a fantastic show on Owls, Hawks and Eagles, all of which she
    presents live, she also has a fantastic display of Native American
    art that she does herself. The medicine man's head bonnet, made out of
    feathers from a golden eagle is breath taking.

    Peace
    Jim

    	Do you really want a lesson in how the "good Christians" won this
    land for their progeny ?  "I Left My Heart At Wounded Knee" tells a
    story one century and a few days old, a story of treachery and
    cowardice and genocide. Reminds me a bit of a tale of Canaan. 

    Re. 9
  
    Hey Jim,
  
    My great-great-grandmother was Mohawk! ;-) And part of the Iroquois
    nation which, incidentally, has never recognized the sovereignty of the
    United States. 8-)
    
    Richard

    RE:-1
    Yeah Richard, 
    		and your probably one of those people who tried to pass off
    wearing a garage door opener, so that everyone would think it was
    really a beeper. -:)


    BTW, don't brag to much about the Iroquois part. They were known to
    practice cannibalism.

    Peace
    Jim

    I haven't yet seen "Dances with Wolves" but plan to.  At the risk 
    of being infairly labeled "anti-Native American" let me caution us all
    against what one movie critic points to as being a romanticization of
    Native American culture - saying that the NA's in the movie did nothing
    bad and the while folks did nothing good.  We are all *people* with our
    individual "goods and bads" and with "good and bad" individuals.
    
    Back to the regularly scheduled discussion...
    
    Nancy

    Nancy,
    
    As one who has seen "Dances" twice, I would say I disagree with the
    movie critic's comment that the movie "romanticized" native americans,
    portraying them as doing nothing "bad".  If you see the movie for
    yourself I believe you will see that there are indeed, clear portrayals 
    of native americans who did "bad" real well.
    
    Granted, there were not many whites who were shown to do "good."  But I
    do not think that, overall, the movie was an unfair or inaccurate 
    characterization of either groups of people, but rather a sensitive 
    look at a rich culture that endured human atrocities born out of
    misunderstandings in some cases, and just plain greed in others.  
    
    As a result, we *all* have lost - tragically.  This is the message that 
    speaks to me.  
    
    Karen                                                           

    Just to second Karen's comments, the movie did portray the Pawnee tribe
    in a rather negative light (to say the least).  I did feel that the
    Lakota were shown to be a complex people, for example with different
    individuals initially reacting in different ways to the presence of the
    Kevin Costner character (some more positively than others).  I felt
    that the film portrayed the Lakota as individuals in fully human terms;
    however, the Lakota *culture* was contrasted with what was portrayed as
    an essentially sick white culture (the treatment of the buffaloes comes
    to mind, as well as the behavior of the officer who assigned Costner to
    his post on the frontier).  In that sense, the Lakotas were portrayed
    in a more positive light.

    I think my favorite scene in the movie occurred when Costner was
    spending the night in a Lakota tent, along with several native people. 
    He noticed one couple making love nearby.  When they saw that he was
    watching them, they pleasantly and playfully grinned at him.  I think
    that scene demonstrated beautifully the human side of this people that
    Costner's character was coming to know.

    -- Mike

    I also agree with Karen. I thought they did a good job showing 
    good and bad on both sides. And lets face it, how many movies
    made since movies have been made, show things from the NA point
    of view ?

    I'm still reading the book and I thought that the tribe that 
    Lt. Dunbar became friends with were Soux SP? In the book they're
    Comanche.

    Peace
    Jim

    last 2 -
    Thanks, good to have another perspective -- maybe I'll get to see it
    this weekend!

Article: 1309
From: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel)
Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
Subject: Witness for Peace 500 Years Campaign
Date: 1 Nov 91 10:23:44 GMT
Sender: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel)
Organization: PACH
 
/** native.1492: 58.0 **/
** Topic: Witness for Peace 500 Years Campai **
** Written  7:14 am  Oct 28, 1991 by witness in cdp:native.1492 **
  1492-1992 Expose the Myths: Calling for a Just World Order
 
     Witness for Peace (WFP) is a grassroots, faith-based, 
nonviolent organization working in Central America and locally 
throughout the U.S. for social justice and peace.   
 
     Witness for Peace has produced a special Quincentenary 
Packet designed for local organizing and education called 1492-
1992 Expose the Myths: Calling for a Just World Order.  
 
     Just as the mythology of the "New World" guided 
colonization, so the myths of the "new world order" drive U.S. 
policy in Central America today.  The Expose the Myths campaign 
seeks to expose the parallels between colonization and present 
U.S. policy in Central America, and to call for a just world 
order through creative, alternative policies. 
 
 
     The Expose the Myths Packet includes: 
 
* "Myths of the Month"--a series of educational and action 
capsules designed to expose the myths of Columbus and the impact 
of U.S. policy in Central America. 
 
* Information and analysis of U.S. AID, economic development, 
structural adjustment and free trade in Central America. 
 
* Background information on U.S. policy in the Central American 
region. 
 
* Legislative suggestions. 
 
* Action suggestions. 
 
* Background information on indigenous populations. 
 
* Bibliography of resources. 
 
 
     The 1492-1992 Expose the Myths: Calling for a Just World 
Order packets can be ordered from Witness for Peace for $10 each; 
Witness for Peace, 2201 P Street NW, Room 109, Washington, DC  
20037; 202/797-1160. ** End of text from cdp:native.1492 **

	"For five hundred years, the missionaries have been trying to save
us Native Americans.  It is now time for us to save the missionaries.
Christianity stands in need of fulfilling the work of Christ.  The
fulfillment will come, is coming, with the sacrifice of colonialism
to hospitality, imperialism to invitation, fear to fellowship, power
to service, and isolation to living at peace with Mother Earth."

					- Bill Baldridge
					  Baptist Peace Fellowship conference

 Z   RE: moving the Jahalin tribesmen.
        
 Z   Gee.. they're almost as nice as we were to the indians 140 years
 Z   ago.
    
    Took this from another string and wasn't sure where to post it.  Tom,
    while it is true the Indians were massacred by the Europeans 140 years
    ago, please don't portray through silence here that one Indian tribe
    would come over to visit another and smoke a peace pipe.  The fact is
    that some of these tribes were amongst the most barbaric and practiced
    what we would term as unspeakable acts toward other
    tribes...cannabalism being one of them.  
    
    -Jack

    88.22
    
    True.  Some of them savages were pretty savage.  And somebody's
    gotta stick up for the Whites.  Gotta remind us that there were
    devils on the other side, too.
    
    Richard
    

    Z    True.  Some of them savages were pretty savage.  And somebody's
    Z    gotta stick up for the Whites.  Gotta remind us that there were
    Z    devils on the other side, too.
    
    Yes, I am very much compelled to do this.  Not to stick up for whitey
    as it is obvious whitey can take care of him/herself.  The basic reason
    Richard, is I despise historical revisionism...and I see alot of it
    coming from people in this country.  It is this sort of danger which
    has made the Soviet Union a contingent of peoples who have very little
    idea as to what has gone on in the world the last 60 years.  I find the
    art of revisionism reprehensible which is why I eschew concepts such as
    Afrocentrism and multiculturalism.  
    
    I am not accusing Tom of being a rabid revisionist.  I am simply
    reminding him that Indians were not around the fire smoking peace pipe
    while us Euromonsters invaded their turf.  Please keep historical
    accounts in perspective.
    
    -Jack

>    I am not accusing Tom of being a rabid revisionist.  I am simply
>    reminding him that Indians were not around the fire smoking peace pipe
>    while us Euromonsters invaded their turf.  Please keep historical
>    accounts in perspective.

Thank you, Jack.  But somehow I had hoped to be judged by
a higher standard.

Tom

.24

>    Yes, I am very much compelled to do this.

We are well aware.

Richard

    Yes, and you of all people should also despise historical revisionism.
    
    -Jack

    .27
    
    I am aware of no one here who wishes to spread anything but the truth.
    That alone is apparently not enough to deter the vigilant.
    
    So, the white invaders were devils and so were the aborigines.  Who
    were the ones who nevertheless claimed the name of Christ?  Or doesn't
    that matter?
    
    Richard
    

re Note 88.27 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN:

>     should also despise historical revisionism.
  
        I wouldn't despise it any more than I would despise the
        writing of history in the first place.  The writing of
        history is *always* an interpretation of events, even if only
        in the choice of what to report and how to describe it.  This
        is especially true since some of the most important
        historical "facts" are the thoughts, motives, and perceptions
        of the historical actors.  "Historical revisionism" is just
        -- history.

        Bob

    And history is basically written by the "winners" in any conflict.  
    
    I have to wonder, how many of those soldiers stopped to help a wounded
    "savage" into heaven by hearing a confession, or did they just bash
    heads in, as was done to some of the wounded at Sand Creek?  
    
    I don't pretend that the natives of the americas were all sweetness and
    light and harmony, but according to the theories posted here, I didn't
    see a lot of christian love spared toward indigeonous peoples from the
    time western Europe discovered this hemisphere.
    
    meg

    Look...this isn't a tit for tat discussion.  No doubt there were
    Christians who were woefully ignorant of the tenets of their own faith. 
    Something no doubt a result of becoming a law unto one's self.  The
    OOOOOnly point I was making was that the Indian cultures of that time
    were not all peace loving and please keep comments in perspective.
    
    -Jack

| <<< Note 88.31 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "Madison...5'2'' 95 lbs." >>>

| and please keep comments in perspective.

	Ho Ho!!!! Too funny, Jack! DOH! :-)

.31

>    Look...this isn't a tit for tat discussion.  No doubt there were
>    Christians who were woefully ignorant of the tenets of their own faith. 

Many Christians still are.  It's been my observation that it tends to be
the ones most certain of their own status as Christians.

>    Something no doubt a result of becoming a law unto one's self.  The
>    OOOOOnly point I was making was that the Indian cultures of that time
>    were not all peace loving and please keep comments in perspective.

It's almost like you're trying to say, "Some of 'em had it coming."

Richard

 ZZ   It's almost like you're trying to say, "Some of 'em had it coming."
    
    Well, I'm not.  

|Many Christians still are.  It's been my observation that it tends to be
|the ones most certain of their own status as Christians.
    
    I was with you until that last line.

    Mike,
    
    Try living in my city.  Richard has a very valid point.  Those who are
    the most abusive and intolerant say they are certain of their place in
    heaven, while telling others who are more tolerant of the differences
    in this city that they will be joining those of us who are of different
    faiths in our unholy afterlife of misery.  
    
    I have had very vile things spewed at me, including the day that one
    person belonging to a certain faith screaming at me not to go into a
    bookstore in town, because it was a hate free zone.  I am sure this
    person believes he is heaven bound, but if he is what is to inhabit the
    "plush" afterlife, I will take my chances in hell.
    
    meg

    Meg, don't rob yourself of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ
    because of the misguided.

>    Meg, don't rob yourself of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ
>    because of the misguided.

'is funny.  I was thinking the same about you.

    Mike,
    
    I have a very wonderful relationship with my creator, thank you very
    much.
    
    meg