Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Well, since the practice of Christianity involves repentance and intention
to lead a new life, the most important part of the walk is that which is
in the future.

/john

    I agree with you Richard that in the conference all we have is
    the talk [for the most part].  However, there are many of us who know
    each other intimately and know the walk as well, but that is not the
    norm.
    
    However, I think you can guage the walk somewhat by the talk... not
    100% accurate, but close.  People whose convicitions remain constant
    over a duration can be pretty well established as since individuals.  
    
    However, I also know that there are people who truly *desire* the walk,
    even though all they have right now is the talk.  I pray that I have
    tolerance for the toddlers in faith.
    
    Love in Him,
    Nancy
    

re .0
	Richard,

	I'm in agreement with Nancy in that one "can guage the walk 
	somewhat by the talk", Jesus said "Out of the abundance of
	the heart the mouth speaks." Matthew 12:34 NWT. The things
	that people write here does give some indication to their 
	heart condition, or what motivates that person. If I just
	speak about myself, then I'm more interested in self than
	others. Perhaps one is inclined to continually squabble over
	a disagreement, what does this tell others about this person?.
	And before anyone jumps in, yes I have been guilty at times.


	Phil.

    re: Note 816.3 by RDGENG::YERKESS

    > I'm in agreement with Nancy in that one "can guage the walk somewhat by
    > the talk", Jesus said "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth
    > speaks." Matthew 12:34 NWT.

    I'm not so sure. First comes the "abundance (overflow NIV) of the
    heart" then comes the speaking. Jesus didn't say "As the mouth speaks,
    so does the heart overflow". That would be a totally different message
    than what Matt 12:34 says.

    If the walk could be gauged by talk, Jim and Tammey-Fae would be
    walking on water. 

    Eric

  >If the walk could be gauged by talk, Jim and Tammey-Fae would be
  >walking on water. 

I saw Tammy Fae on TV about 3 months ago.  I heard the talk and
I was not impressed at all.  Perhaps you have heard different
talk that forces you to elevate her so highly.

Collis

    re .5
    
    I was reminiscing about the old PTL club... I remember a couple talking
    about accepting Jesus as their personal savior, of virtue and
    sacrifice, and of serving the Lord through their ministry.

    When their "walk" was revealed their "talk" was shown to be empty. If
    you saw them to be the charlatans they really were(are), you have
    insight beyond that of hundreds of thousands of your fellow Americans.

    Let's take a look at what was said... you cannot guage a person solely
    though their talk, you can through their walk... :-)
    
    But in a forum such as this, the latter is near to impossible for most
    of us to see in each other... therefore, let's take a look at those who
    communicate regularly...  There is something called comfortability
    [:-)], that is what happens when one notes for a long period of time. 
    There is something called familiarity...no longer feeling intimidated
    with those noting around you.  And then when those two come together,
    the avenue for heart's TRUE contents can and most of the time will
    spill forth in words.
    
    God's word is true... the heart will manifests itself in
    time...regardless of the condition.
    
    Nancy

	Eric,

	Just to clarify, I saw that Nancy had used the word "somewhat"
	in her statement and this is what I agreed with.

;First comes the "abundance (overflow NIV) of the heart" then comes the 
;speaking.

	Totally agree, verse 35 of Matthew 12:35 shows the effect of
	having a heart that is in a good or bad condition..."The good
	man out of his good treasure sends out good things, whereas
	the wicked man out of his wicked treasure sends out wicked
	things." Jesus then relates how important it is to take note
	of what a person says, in verse 36, 37 NWT "I tell you that
	every unprofitable saying that men speak, they will render
	an account concerning it on Judgement Day; for by your words
	you will be declared righteous, and by your words you will be
	condemned." So persons will be judged by what they say, however
	it is the condition of ones heart that one must safeguard. By 
	doing so Jesus indicated that "good things", such as wholesome
	speech, would come from the mouth. 

;If the walk could be gauged by talk, Jim and Tammey-Fae would be
;walking on water. 

	I have never heard them, so I can't comment.

	Persons can be hypocritical, eg "Don't do as I do, but do
	as I say." But, listening carefully to what someone says
	and seeing how they react through communication with others
	can give some indication as to what that person is like.
	Eg are they loving?, do they show themselves as being superior 
	to other persons?.
	
	I have never met any person in this conference "face to
	face", but from hearing from them I would say that they are
	sincere and that they endeavour to live good lives.


	Phil.

The "name it and claim it" theology that was preached had
a lot of Christians troubled including myself.  Their idea
of successful Christian living from the start had more to
do with having your desires filled here on earth rather than
sacrificing all to follow Jesus.  This was clear from the
talk.

I readily admit that their preaching and beliefs attracted
a lot of followers (as it continues to do today in other
congregations).  I attribute this to the world wanting to have
their ears tickled as well as good people being deceived about
God's Will for their lives.  Yes, God will bless us - and bless
us abundantly.  Often, however, these blessings will not be in
the way that the we as worldly people measure blessings.  Sometimes
it is, however.  The problem is when we extrapolate from those
sometimes to everytime.

At any rate, the Bakkar's are not a good example - at least from
my perspective - of someone who is doing the talk but not the
walk.  Neither was well accomplished.

Collis

Re:  .10

Also a "name it and claim it" proseletizer.  However, you
are quite right in pointing out that his talk (throwing
accusations at the Bakkars) was different from his walk
(refusing to submit to denominational control).  I would
submit that the attitude of humility was not a predominant
one in Jimmy Swaggart's talk - just as it was not predominant
in his walk.

Collis

    re .9

    Fair enough, Collis. I admit that I was going on the popular notion of
    the Bakker's when they were still popular and untainted by criminal
    allegations, and not from extensive personal viewing. Although on
    occasion I had watch the show out of curiosity. I will accept you good
    word that they are a bad example of "talking the talk".

    I've never heard of "name it and claim it" theology. Could you give me
    a thumbnail description, please?

    Eric

Eric,

You've missed out!  God is waiting to *shower* you with
blessings beyond your wildest imaginations.  Just send
your seed offering to me (inter-office mail will do) and
God will multiply 3, 10 even 100-fold!

But, you must believe.  And, remember, if you think
small, you will receive small.  Trust in the *full* and
*complete* power of God.  If you desire health, wealth
and a joyous life, don't begrudgingly cast a few coins
in God's directions.  Bring forth the *full* tithe and
wait for God Himself to bless you.

Collis

P.S.  Void where prohibited, taxed or licensed.  If faith
is too small, seed offering may be lost.  To increase faith,
increase the seed offering.

    re  Note 816.13 by PACKED::COLLIS::JACKSON
    
    Ah... I see. Sort of fee for service as opposed to universal
    coverage. :^)
    
    EM

re: Collis    -< how's this? >-

Collis, that was terrific!  What a hoot!  Thanks.

Jim  --  "The check's in the mail--
                                   -- NOT."

RE .0

	Richard,
	
	Could you clarify what you mean by walk?. Being British I may
	be misunderstanding what your saying.

	A perfect example, of an impressive talk is that of Jesus'
	sermon on the mount. Matthew 7:28,29 NWT reads "Now when
	Jesus finished these sayings, the effect was that the crowds
	were astounded at his way of teaching; for he was teaching them
	as a person having authority, and not as their scribes."
	This sermon was based solely on God's teaching unlike the
	manmade traditions of the scribes. Something the spiritually
	poor people had been thirsting for, compare the opening part
	of the sermon in Matthew 5:3-11.

	1 Peter 2:21 tells us to use Jesus as a role model, now one
	will not be able to equal Jesus' art of teaching but one
	can learn from it and help others to fill their spiritual
	hunger. However, if your conduct is not in harmony with
	what one is teaching, that is God's Word, then one will just
	be a big stumbling block like the TV evanglists mentioned
	earlier in this note string.


	Phil.

    .16
    
    Phil,
    
    	The talk = one's words
    
    	The walk = one's actions
    
    Peace,
    Richard
    

re .17

	Thanks Richard.

	One's words is seen as part of one's actions. For example, one may
	use words to insult or alternatively encourage another. Upbuilding
	& encouraging others through speech (based on God's Word) to with 
	stand the pressures that this world puts on us, such as peer pressure 
	to commit immorality, is evidence that one is taking action. And will 
	be following the pattern of Jesus, who helped fill peoples spiritual 
	need.

	However, there is wise counsel in Ecclesiastes 3:7 NWT, "a time to keep 
	quiet and a time to speak;". One needs to speak went it is required, but 
	sometimes it is best to remain quiet.


	Phil.