Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Note 263.13

>     This concept of a holy place is an interesting thing. I would
>   tend to think that if one believed that the universe is God's
>   creation, then one would view everyplace as a holy one.

This pretty much sums up what I believe.  At the same time, I tend to agree
with Alfred that it's also an internal experience.  No place is holy, to my
understanding, if the Living God is not present for you.

Peace,
Richard

    Hi Alfred,
    
    Since I believe and experience all of Creation as an expression of the 
    Divine, (using a gender inclusive term here), *all* of Creation is sacred 
    and holy to me.  This connects back to the very beginning of Genesis
    when it is said that God created everything and it was very good.  If
    God is holy, how can all that was created not be.....  
    
    Creation is holy only when our minds perceive it as such.  
    
    The song _Amazing Grace_ - "I once was blind but now I see", describes 
    my own awakening (and continued awakening) to this holiness, this 
    sacredness all around me.  It was there all along, but for many years 
    I was 'blind' to it.
    
    Karen

I find "the high places of the world" to be palpably holy. Remote mountain
peaks in the Sierra in particular. John Muir expressed it particularly well.
Backpacking in the high Sierra, then climbing to the top of Feather Peak and
just sitting and observing the magnificence of the world was an extremely
moving experience.

I find wild rivers holy as well. It's hard to put into words, but I know it
when I'm there.

	-- Charles

    To some extent I can see people seeing all of creation as holy.
    On the other hand the word has always implied, to me, a higher
    level of "God Presence" then average.

    I've given this some thought tonight. I spent about 15-20 minutes
    in a chapel praying tonight. It was a small chapel that was a
    convent chapel for close to 30 years. Now it's used for regular
    masses during times of the year when opening and heating the main
    church is not practical for the number of attendies (ie. Early morning
    winter). It's above a school where I had a meeting to attend. 

    I was thinking about this topic when I entered. The chapel did not
    feel particularly holy to me. Not just because I'm not Catholic though.
    After my longish prayer session it felt holier. I remembered a lunch
    conversation with the Reinke's a couple of weeks ago about places that
    had "a feeling" about them. The conclusion I came to was that prayer
    made places holier. For a number of reasons none of them being me.
    Rather the feeling of prayer, God's presence enhanced for a time, and
    the act of worship (which prayer is) created something (a force perhaps
    or some other thing not well described in English) that remained.
    Perhaps years of this sort of thing may cause a place to have this
    feeling. Although perhaps it requires a sensitivity of some kind to
    feel it.

    After this I thought about a number of "holy" places I've visited and
    tried to remember the feeling there. The Garden of Gesthemine where
    Jesus was and most who have visited in the last 1,000 years have
    done in a worshipful way had a holy feeling. The temple mound in
    Jerusalem did on one visit but not so much on an other. Perhaps my
    mood was different? St. Peters did not have that feeling around the
    outside of the sanctuary but did near the alter (where St. Peter is
    thought to be buried. Anyone want to fund visits to more sites for
    my research? :-)

    I grew up in church. Almost literally. For many years the wall to my
    bedroom was the other side of a church wall. A fire door outside
    my bedroom door opened up behind the alter of a church. I used that
    door often. Church is not a mysterious and or strange place. I enter
    them without mysticism. Generally. To me they are mostly public
    buildings with worship as their purpose. Not necessarily holy places.
    Perhaps that's why it's so hard to think of all of creation as holy.
    Churches *become* holy when worship takes place there. The combination
    of worship and the enhanced presence of God makes the place holy.
    God is always everywhere. God being somewhere is not special. It is
    expected. Worship without God is meaningless (to me). But worship and
    God, that is special. 

    RE: .3

    I find high places special. Also rivers and the ocean. It is hard for
    me to look at sunset over the ocean and understand people not believing
    in God. I also find some trees and some rocks special. But I wouldn't
    use the work holy to describe the feeling. It's moving but it's
    something different then holy. At least to me.

    		Alfred

    Alfred,
    
    Thanks for your thoughts in .4, I appreciate them.
    
    About the chapel you prayed in last night and your not feeling at first
    that it was a particularly holy place.... I wonder if you had had a chance
    to ask other parishioners whether or not they felt the chapel was holy
    what they would've said.  I imagine some would've said yes, that as
    soon as they walked up the steps and through the door they were aware
    of a sense of holiness.  For you it took some time in prayer to feel
    this.  Perhaps you feel it more quickly/strongly in other places, or in
    your own church for example.
    
    What is it that makes a place 'holy'?  Is a place made holy by us tuning 
    into the presence of God?  I feel so.  But I don't think we enhance the
    presence of God, I think we enhance *our perception* of the presence of 
    God.
    
    I've never looked up the definition of holy, but was inspired to after
    reading your note:
    
    Holy - Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power:
    sacred.  Regarded with or deserving of worship or veneration: revered.
    
    I believe the choice of what to call holy is up to each individual, and
    is based *directly* upon our beliefs of the attributes of God.
    
    Karen  

Alfred,

Well said!  A very thoughtful entry.

I just looked up "holy" in my office (American Heritage) dictionary.  The
first meaning listed says "belonging to, derived from, or associated with a
divine power", so yes in a way, ALL places are holy, being created by God, but
that part of "associated with a divine power" says to me that someone has to
make the association.   We take an active role in creating a holy place. 

After reading your entry, I thought about the church building I worship in.
There is a massive stone slab altar, and a large (12 feet tall or so) wooden
cross suspended from the A-frame ceiling and backlit by a panel of yellow
glass windows.  You cannot be unaware of it. 

As a choir member and lay eucharistic minister I have become familiar with the 
sanctuary, the sacristy, and other places of the building.  I've watched the
people on the altar guild arranging things, changing the linen, putting out 
and removing the altar flowers, chalice, et cetera.  I've practiced my
trombone there preparing for a prelude, helped decorate the church for special
liturgical occasions, helped position the baptismal font numerous times, and
once helped float a piano into place for an anthem on Sunday. 

Thinking of my feelings and observing others, there seems to be quite a range 
of behaviour.  Some people never reverence the altar in these mundane
activities, some do.  Some people only speak in hushed voices, others in
normal voices, some people even laugh.  I remember always praying before
practicing my horn.  (Solo's are scary to play, I prefer to just accompany
God! .-)  Do these different people have different awarenesses of the holiness
of the place, or simply different ways of expressing them?  Who can tell?

Perhaps for some people, at some times, holy places are still and solemn, 
while for other people, or at other times, holy places are joyful with 
celebration.  I've seen that in my Episcopalian upbringing, there is a great
deal of solemnity, perhaps even dourness involved in relating to God.
In the past few years I've found a much greater sense of spontaneity and 
celebration in my worship.

I've seen wild places that brought a palpable hush on their surroundings, 
while in other places I simply cannot avoid an exclamation prasing God for 
sharing the moment with me.  Hallelujah!

Thought provoking topic.  Peace,

Jim

p.s.  Here's a question that just entered my mind.  Children.  Do kids have a 
sense of the holy?  Is one born with it?  When does it develop?  (Okay, so it 
was a few questions...)

    Once, while hiking, I stopped to scribble an entry in my journal about the
    beauty of nature and its effect upon me.  I was wondering about the
    inspiration and sense of awe that it brought upon me, and considered
    the fact that many activities in life can exert a sort of holy pull
    upon me, although to varying degrees.  In the final sentence of the
    entry, I commented on the need to keep the sense of the holy within
    myself at all times.

                           Journal entry, 10/10/89:

    I shouldn't be hiking when I am still recovering from this rather nasty
    cold, but after nearly a month of virtually no exercise, I can feel the
    fat cells in my body growing.  The doctor said that the illness has
    been all over the city the three or four weeks, and antibiotics have
    been generally ineffective.  It is caused by some kind of mycoplasm, I
    think he said.  Anyway, I am taking erythromycin, and already I think I
    am feeling better.

    It's a beautiful fall day in Colorado.  The temperature is in the
    seventies, and there isn't a cloud in the sky.  I simply could not
    resist hiking today.  I took the Mt. Cutler trail, which is only about
    a mile each way, with an ascent of 400-500 feet.  The view of the
    mountains is awesomely beautiful in places.

    One of the advantages of hiking, aside from the beauty and the
    exercise, is the friendliness of other hikers.  I don't know what it
    means, but it does seem that virtually every hiker will say "hello" as
    they pass.

    Is there a spiritual significance to the appreciation of nature?  I
    think so.  There is an awe and appreciation that is not unlike the awe
    one feels when confronted with the holy.  Hiking is a kind of
    sacrament.  Yet so it sitting on a log and merely looking out across
    the canyon at the rocky walls, as I am now.  I don't know if there is a
    sacredness to be found in all otherwise profane activities, as perhaps
    the mystics say, but I do know that there are certain activities that
    can have a strong sacramental element.  If everything in life is holy,
    I still believe that some things are more inspiring of holiness than
    others.  They key is to keep that holiness with you at other times.

    There are places on this planet where Mother Earth especially focusses
    her energies.  Some of these are known as power points.  These places
    are available to all who know how to use them, both those we might call
    "good", and others we might shun, and still others we might not even
    recognize.  
    
    Such places can be very holy, or very unholy, depending on how people
    use the energies available.  Few people are unaffected by long-term
    association with them.  I am of the opinion that the Middle East,
    especially the area around Jerusalem, must be chuck full of such
    places, and that this explains (in part) the instability of the region.
    
    Those of us who accept reincarnation as a working hypothesis also
    believe that a return to an area of a happy previous life will
    overwhelm a person with a sense of well-being and wistfulness.  For
    some, this is a holy experience.
    
    DR

	Years ago, a friend of mine, a vibrant, elderly woman named
Olive toured the Middle East, particularly Israel and vicinity frequently
called the "Holy Land."

	The integral message she shared when telling of her trip was that,
"No land is holy unless to take God with you."

	This statement has always stuck with me.  I've experienced God
in unexpected ways and in unexpected places.  I've had the realization of
being on high and holy ground while serving as chaplain in the oncology
unit of a hospital.

	I also understand the transcendental or "mountain top" experience.
A number of friends, who do not attend church, find their cathedral,
their house of worship and praise, in nature.  The likelihood of this
sensation of closeness to God is seemingly increased when the individual
is most disengaged from contemporary civilization with its assorted concerns
and entanglements.  I've heard of this experience occuring on a mountain,
during a sunset, a clear desert night, adrift on the ocean, deep in a forest,
and hardly ever at a noisey, crowded metropolitan intersection. ;-}

	I suspect there are lots of places that may be holier than we realize.
Our failure to acknowledge such places may be because they simply do not
demand our conscious attention the way others do.

Peace,
Richard

>and hardly ever at a noisey, crowded metropolitan intersection. ;-}
    
    Happens more then you'll ever know. I still cherish the moments
    talking to God while walking to customers in mid town Manhattan.
    The tall buildings form a natural cathedral that brings ones eyes
    up to the heavens. The mass of humanity ignoring you shows clearly
    how dependent we are on God who never ignores us. Yes, there is
    in deed something special about a noisey, crowded metropolitan
    intersection if one is open to the experiance. Too few are though.
    
    			Alfred

    Re: .10
    
Yes, I know what you're saying, Alfred.  It sounds like you've learned to
cut through the distractions and sensory assaults of urban living.

Peace,
Richard

    RE: basenote....
    
                     Yes, I believe God is found everywhere, but I find
    that "I" can be less distracted and feel closer to God as far into the
    mountains and forests as possible.  In the city, I am concerened with
    too many "other" things to really listen to God the way I should.
    
    
    Dave

After reading the following information and other sources regarding 
labyrinths and mazes, Carole, Don, and I plan to experience this 
'journey of the soul' while in England:

The Mizmaze on St. Catherine's Hill

A mile south of the Cathedral (Winchester), on the far side of the 
main A33 road bypassing the city on its way to Southampton, is 
Winchester's sacred hill, where formerly stood a chapel dedicated to 
St. Catherine.  The foundations of the chapel are hidden in a clump of 
trees, to the east of which is the figure of a labyrinth cut into the 
turf.  Its local name is the Mizmaze.

When William of Wykeham founded Winchester college in 1382, he 
ordained that the scholars should walk twice daily to the summit of 
St. Catherine's Hill.  This was probably in continuation of an earlier 
monkish procession.  A college festival knows as Hilles took place on 
St. Catherine's.  From south of Winchester college a path leads to the 
top of the hill.

The low hill is surrounded by rings and of an earthwork thought to be 
of about 500 B.C.  Both the date and the ritual purpose of the Mizmaze 
are unknown; estimates of its age vary from three hundred to more than 
a thousand years.  Treading the maze, by walking the furrows between 
its raised banks, is a mystical and therapeutic experience.  It may 
be that in following the spiral patterns of natural growth and energy, 
one orders the mind and attunes oneself to nature's rhythms.  The 
labyrinths which sometimes occur on the pavings of medieval churches 
traditionally represent the pilgrim's journey to Zion.

Another Mizmaze is found 23 miles to the west at Breamore (pronounced 
Bremmer), south of Salisbury.  The lovely Elizabethan manor house 
there is open to the public, and beside it is a rare little Saxon 
church.  From the church a path goes northwest across beautiful, wooded 
downland country for about a mile to the Mizmaze, which is hidden 
within a wood.  It is also cut into the chalk turf and has no known 
history.

The association between St. Catherine and the labyrinth symbol is 
discussed at Abbotsbury in Doreset (page 121) where the St. 
Catherine's hill has features similar to that of Winchester.

Looking north from the Mizmaze on St. Catherine's Hill, one can see 
Winchester cathedral, and the line of sight is close to the line of 
the old processional pathway to the hilltop.  Beyond the cathedral 
the line continues through the medieval Hyde Gate and the site of 
Hyde Abbey (where King Alfred was originally buried), through the 
twelfth-century Church of St. Bartholomew, and over a plowed-down long 
barrow at South Wonston, 3 miles beyond the city.  another 3 miles 
further on, the line strikes the center of a prehistoric earthwork, 
Tidbury Ring, where the remains of a Roman station or temple had been 
found.  During the research for their book The Ley Hunter's 
Companion, Paul Devereux and Ian Thompson walked this line, and they 
consider it to be a deliberately planned alignment of sacred sites 
from prehistoric times.

-------------------

From the text on page 121 referred to in the above excerpt:

The Hill Chapel of St. Catherine (Abbotsbury)

A path from behind the village inn gives the easiest approach to the 
chapel atop St. Catherine's Hill.  Though not so steeps and conical 
as Glastonbury Tor, this hill plays a similarly dramatic part in the 
composition of its landscape.  A smooth inclined plane which leads 
to its summit passes through the seven rings of a spiral earthwork 
etched into its sides.  These have been explained as the terraces of a 
medieval cultivation system, and they may well have been used by the 
monks for orchards and vineyards.  Their origin however, could be 
much older.  The more famous hillside spiral on Glastonbury Tor, which 
also has seven levels, is now thought to have provided a labyrinthine 
pathway for pilgrims and religious processions on their way to the 
sacred summit.  Not doubt St. Catherine was a sacred hill long before 
the fifteenth century where the present chapel was placed there by the 
Abbotsbury monks.
...
...
The holy places of St. Catherine are often found on beacon hilltops 
and sometimes, as at St Catherine's Hill, Winchester, in association 
with a spiral labyrinth.  Thus in landscape symbols are reflected her 
attributes, as an example of female wisdom (the labyrinth), a 
protector of women (the rounded, maternal hill), and a guide to 
sailors at the mercy of the tides (the beacon).  These attributes were 
inherited from a pagan deity whose cult flourishes widely in the 
orient.  The Chinese goddess of mercy, Kwan Yin, likewise protects 
women and sailors, and she too was martyred, after which she arose 
from the ocean upon a lotus.  She and St. Catherine reflect an aspect 
of divinity -- the wise, merciful female whose shrines have a 
traditional appears to many types of pilgrims.

The particular cause of pilgrimages in modern times to St. 
Catherine's Chapel has been the reputation of the saint for 
procuring a husband or children for women who pray at her shrine.  
The most favorable season is around the saint's feast day on November 
25.  The humble words, country girls at St. Catherine's Chapel, 
Miltyon Abbas, used when asking the saint to give them a man ("any a 
one is better than never a one") were made more demanding at 
Abbotsbury, when according to tradition the request was for a husband 
who was kind, rich, and handsome.      %^}    }8^)

--------------------------------------------------

The Tower and Lanterns of Ely 

....
The height of the west tower is 230 feet, and one can pace out that 
same length by treading a marble labyrinth on the floor below it.  
This labyrinth is the work of Sir Gilbert Scott, who restored the 
cathedral in 1870.  In making the length of its pathway equal to the 
height of the tower, Scott was following a practice of mystical 
masonry.  Other cathedral labyrinths occur at Chartres and elsewhere 
in Europe; they have a wide range of symbolism and represent, among 
other things, the pilgrimage journey as a pathway to paradise.



Ro

The Shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham is in Norfolk, just inland from the
North Sea east of the mouth of the Wash.  It is the most important Anglican
shrine in the world and is a site of pilgrimages by Anglicans and Roman
Catholics from all over Europe and the world.

Water from the Holy Well has been shown to have healing powers, and churches
have healing services using the following form: (Anglican Service Book, p.733)

FORM FOR THE BLESSING WITH WATER FROM THE HOLY WELL OF OUR LADY OF WALSINGHAM

The Priest begins

(Hear what our Lord Jesus Christ saith:) Come unto me all ye that travail and
are heavy laden, and I will refresh you.

Your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

The people repeat the following after the Priest

Lord, be merciful unto me, a sinner.
Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Mary, Mother of Jesus, pray for us.
Our Lady of Walsingham, intercede for us.

The Priest then says

Almighty God, who didst send thy holy Angel unto the pool of Bethesda, that
at the moving of the waters he who stepped in was healed of whatever infirmities
afflicted him, hear our prayers and the prayers of our blessed Lady, and be
pleased to stretch out thy hand, and according to thy holy will grant
restoration of health and the fulfillment of the good desires of all those
who are about to be blessed with this water.  Amen.

As each person is blessed, the Priest says

May it please Almighty God of his great goodness, and at the intercession
of our blessed Lady, to grant thee health and peace, according to his holy
will, and fulfill all thy good desires for his honor and glory.  The blessing
of God Almighty, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, be upon thee now
and always.  Amen.

After all have been blessed, the following is said

V. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among
   women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
R. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of
   our death.  Amen.

Grant, we beseech thee, O Lord God, that we thy servants may rejoice in
perpetual health of mind and body, and at the glorious intercession of
blessed Mary, ever Virgin, may be delivered from present sadness and
attain to eternal joy.  Through Jesus Christ our Lord.  Amen.

V. The Lord be with you.
R. And with thy spirit.
V. Let us bless the Lord.
R. Thanks be to God.

+ May the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God,
  rest in peace.  Amen.

    
    i'm looking forward to hearing how the trip went and what you
    saw and experienced when you get back..Ro and Carole
    
    peter

Well after weeks of debate over this decision, we've (Don, Carole
Fretts, and I) decided to take the trip to England this summer to the
3rd Earth Conference.  The tour includes a special ceremony inside the
inner stone circle of Stonehenge and a musical event at Avebury with
Buffy St. Marie and the Tibetan Monks as well as full conference
attendance with some of our favorite authors (people we feel have
impacted our spiritual paths). 

This will also give me a chance to continue my research on the Celtic 
saints who were the children of King Brychan of Wales who lived in the 
late 5th, early 6th century.  We have been corresponding with another 
author, Paul Broadhurst, who has invited us to visit him at his home
in North Cornwall. 

I do hope we will also have time to visit the Shrine of our Lady of 
Walsingham that John Covert suggested last time.  I did find some 
information on it in the John Mitchell book (who will also be a 
speaker at the Earth Conference) and found it fascinating.

Despite possible TSFO, we felt that this was something we are 
*called* to do!!  Ta da.........

Ro

    Ro .16,
    
    	I hope you'll share an account of your visit with us upon your
    return.
    
    Peace,
    Richard