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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

857.0. "The Least Desirable Quality of Becoming Christian" by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE (I'm 2 sexy 4 my chair) Tue Feb 15 1994 16:02

What is the least desirable quality of Christianity?  How do our lives as
Christians reflect something that others might want to avoid?

Peace,
Richard

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
857.1Take the focus off HumanityJULIET::MORALES_NASweet Spirit's Gentle BreezeTue Feb 15 1994 16:095
    There isn't one in my opinion... if I were to look at humans who are
    Christians I'd run away altogether... but when you look at Christ there
    is nothing undesirable.
    
    
857.2And Focus on ChristJULIET::MORALES_NASweet Spirit's Gentle BreezeTue Feb 15 1994 16:1111
    P.S.
    
    I sometimes get weary of hearing how Christians have done this and done
    that like Jimmy Baaker and Swaggart and whoever else is out there that
    has gone astray... 
    
    Christians are human and that humanity wars against the nature of
    Christ within us... Get a glimpse the bumper sticker that I once saw
    said "Christian's aren't perfect, just forgiven" applies.
    
    Nancy
857.3Negative questions sometimes evoke responseCSC32::J_CHRISTIEI'm 2 sexy 4 my chairTue Feb 15 1994 16:2513
        <<< LGP30::DKA300:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE.NOTE;1 >>>
                 -< Discussions from a Christian Perspective >-
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Note 854.0           The Desirability of Becoming Christian           No replies
CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "I'm 2 sexy 4 my chair"             7 lines  12-FEB-1994 14:09
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What is the most enticing quality of Christianity?  Do our lives as
Christians reflect something that others desire for themselves and want
to know more about?

Peace,
Richard

857.4CSC32::J_CHRISTIEI'm 2 sexy 4 my chairTue Feb 15 1994 22:5618
>What is the least desirable quality of Christianity?

To me, it is the exclusionary element - the "who's in and who's out"
mentality - that some associate with Christianity that turns a lot of
people off.  I know that if I knew all of Christianity to be of this
mindset, I would probably not want to be a Christian myself.

Jesus, too, was criticized for the company he kept.

>How do our lives as Christians reflect something that others might
>want to avoid?

I think very few Christians exemplify (or examplify) the spirit and
teachings of Jesus.

Peace,
Richard

857.5As a non-Christian... VNABRW::BUTTONAnother day older and deeper in debtWed Feb 16 1994 10:1999
	Hi!

	This is a question which I am continuously asking myself.

	As most of you know, I describe myself as non-Christian although
	I have been 'looking' for a way into the community for many years.

	What has been keeping me outside?

	First: I am repelled by what I will call the 'internal conflict'
	brought about by differences in attitudes towards the Bible and
	its teachings.  Wherever one stands, there is an appropriate
	label which is *not* usually applied to flatter: Fundamentlist,
	Inerrantist, Creationist, Liberal, Revelationist, etc. are all
	too frequently used in a decidedly un-Christian context. I am
	not sure that I would feel comfortable inside such a community.

	Secondly: (and somehow related) is the attitude - even if not
	held by all - that Christianity is the 'only true way to God'
	and that all other religions have 'got it wrong'. The thought
	of even being associated in name (Christian) with such bigotry
	is most repellant to me.

	Thirdly: There are so many Christians of my experience - and I
	have seen signs of it in CP too - who seem to believe that
	suffering is a prerequisite to salvation. 'We all have to bear
	our cross' is a symptomatic phrase. I regard such an attitude
	to be not only wrong and contrary to the will of God, but to be
	positively destructive. Unfortunately, I have seen this position
	taken by Christians of all shades.

	Fourthly: I firmly believe that the earliest forms of life emerged
	from inanimate matter and were not human. I also believe in the
	evolution of the species through natural selection. Many Christians
	reject any of this out of hand - and produce falsified rejection
	arguments - instead of seriously searching for a way to reconcile
	these facts with their God.  This rejection - although most prominent
	amongst the fundamentalist groups - also has echoes in the more
	liberal communities.  I would be uncomfortable with any label which
	implied that I had possibly surrendered my intellect.

	Fifthly: I believe that certain things in life are not a matter
	choice and, therefore, cannot and should not be labelled a sin.
	I am thinking, in particular, of homosexuality and (certain
	instances of apparent) promiscuity.
	Most of you know by now that, as a child, I lived a dual existance:
	partly as a male (which is my certified birth gender) and partly as
	a female. As a female, I was subjected to what today is called sexual
	abuse, at the hands of both men and women. As a male, I was abused by
	men only.
	I admit to enjoying most of what I did as a girl with women. (I am
	reminded of Richard's "honorary lesbian" epithet). I have spoken to
	priests, vicars, rabbis and monks about these things (often using
	the "just suppose..." form to avoid having to give too much detail.
	Only one hindu monk and a rabbi told me that I had not sinned.
	Without exception, *every* Christian priest (vicar etc) told me that
	I was a sinner. I cannot accept this. Neither can I accept that
	(most) homsexuals are sinners, because I *know* that they do not
	have a choice. Neither are their acts a sin because they have a
	God-given *right* to express their love for others just as
	heterosexuals do.

	Sixthly: I do not like the paraphenalia of Christianity (or of
	most other religions for that matter). I do not like that priest
	get dressed up in fancy clothes, splash water about, pump sweet-
	smelling smoke into the air and that a church service is like a
	workout at the gym (kneel, stand, sit, knee, sit, kneel, stand).
	I have never been able to understand why it all has to be so
	rituallized.
	(I have understood: it should give the whole thing a sort of
	'magic' atmosphere, so that the 'poor in spirit' [a deliberate
	misinterpretation for effect] will not ask too many questions).
	What 'frightens' me is that the priests (well educated men usually)
	go along with this hocus pokus.
	I was once reprimanded by a local vicar (even though I did not
	belong to the church) because I spent a whole sunday morning
	pushing a crippled (sorry: physically impaired) lady up and down
	the seaside promenade in a wheelchair instead of going to church.
	This attitude is (almost) dead now, but until it is completely
	flushed out of the system, I am definately on the outside.

	Seventhly: (???) I just cannot see Jesus as anyone other than
	a very pious Jew who wanted nothing more than to bring his fellow
	Jews back onto the paths of righteousness: in a strictly jewish
	sense. I cannot understand that this devalues Jesus, God or
	Christianity.

	Finally: (better than eighthly!) The exclusion of women into the
	offices of the church seems to me to be infamous and completely in
	opposition to the will of God. In fact, *any* discrimination of
	women in the name of Christianity is a sin (or in any other name,
	for that matter). We are all creatures of the same God and equal.
	This is true whether you accept my own position that we are all, to
	a greater or lesser extent, of dual gender. Thankfully, there are
	some signs that this discrimination is dissolving.

	End!  Richard: Are you sorry that you asked?
	
	Greetings, Derek.
857.6JUPITR::HILDEBRANTI'm the NRAWed Feb 16 1994 11:535
    RE: .4 & .5
    
    I have too agree with much of this.
    
    Marc H.
857.7HumilityPIECES::63551::yerkessbring me sunshine in your smileWed Feb 16 1994 12:0414
re .0

	Richard,

	If I understand your question correctly, I would have to say
	it is "humility". This was something Jesus' disciples found
	difficult to grasp at times, however it is a must for a
	Christian.

	Humility means that one recognises that one is mere dust.
	And that God has the right to set the standards for oneself
	rather doing as one pleases.

	Phil.
857.8CSC32::J_CHRISTIEI'm 2 sexy 4 my chairWed Feb 16 1994 17:404
    .6  A meaty response.  I thank you for it.
    
    Richard
    
857.9APACHE::MYERSWed Feb 16 1994 17:545
    RE: Note 857.5 by VNABRW::BUTTON 
    
    I agree with much of what you say....
    
    	Eric
857.10CSC32::J_CHRISTIEI'm 2 sexy 4 my chairWed Feb 16 1994 17:599
Note 857.5

>	This is a question which I am continuously asking myself.
    
    Good!  It shows me that God is at work in your life, Derek!

    Peace,
    Richard
    
857.11CSC32::J_CHRISTIEI'm 2 sexy 4 my chairWed Feb 16 1994 18:548
Note 857.5

>	End!  Richard: Are you sorry that you asked?

Hardly.  You've given us much to chew on.

Richard