Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

1175.0. "History of Christianity" by DECALP::GUTZWILLER (happiness- U want what U have) Tue Oct 31 1995 11:42

or, the brief period in which 'God' was real.




In this topic I present my view of what happened at that point, starting
from which we count our time. That is, I'll attenpt to cover not only WHAT
happened, I'll also cover how it came to happen and what has become of it.

Now to say it is 'my' view is presumptuous considering that I am only citing
a line of thought formulated by that original and controversial German
philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900). This thinker it seems was
predestined by his biography and his epoch to confront Christianity head-on.

In today's terms Nietzsche would make a fitting philosophical Limbaugh. A man
determined to fight the vanishing but still dominant thought of his time to
death. A man with a message in spite of all his hatred. You need to separate
the message from the hatred to get to the best of both of these controversial
figures.

This is what I have attempted in the following contribution. To separate the
hatred from the message and to thus present Nietzsche's history of
Christiantity. His history of Christianity, as formulated in his 'Anti-Christ'
with no mean measure of CYNICISM and IRONY, is to me, very plausible and 
likely to contain the odd grain of truth.

This topic digs deep. And the views presented here could be deeply unsettling.
READ THIS TOPIC AT YOUR OWN RISK. As a Christian, you are likely to be 
intensly nauseated by the way in which Christianity, or rather, what has 
become of that ONE Christian, is dissected here.

Why do I enter this text? I am often intensly disturbed by the anger of the 
discussions in this file, by the light manner in which God is attributed even
the lowest and most unworthy of human traits and by the violence when using 
interpretations of Scripture to panel-beat dissenting views back into the
mainstream. I also understand that the tenets of the Christian religion make 
a response in kind impossible when being confronted with anger and violence. 
Quite a dilemma you have there as a Christian, what a potential for torture 
and pain comes with this religion. This is where I come to my limits as a
non-Christian, where I can no longer abide by the rules, as, abiding by the
Christian rules would be to me equal to self-denial.

I enter this topic as a response in kind. It is a response to the most
vulgar theological viewpoints which crop up in here from time to time. This 
is a violent topic and will shake you up. As always when there is violence
involved, much good is being torn down unnecessarily despite all 'good'
rationality of intent.

The text presented in the following is taken from R.J. Hollingdale's
Nietzsche translation (available as Penguin paperback ISBN 0-14-044514-5)
and is with one slight exception entered unaltered.

And now on to the story. About the chasm between Christ and the Church. About
what was in essence the brief appearance of a true human being in an otherwise 
UNALTERED world characterised by continuous and ongoing human attempts of 
bridling the divine (the oldest and most vital priestly tradition!)...



Andreas.

i've set the replies .1 through .12 set hidden in this string. the way 
they are represented now is in my mind the most appropriate way for 
them to remain in this file. the notes as they stand may be unbecoming 
to this file. this file, i regard as a church, a place of genuine encounter 
and togetherness, very much the way a church should be.

i also grant permission to the moderators of this file to dispose of 
these 12 notes as they think is best; this includes extracting and 
forwarding the text to anyone who might wish to read it.

i also recognize that present day christians have a paramount task in
having to restore the light to the world and to their church. restoring
the 'light' to the world is a task which we are all called for. how this
is done in the context of christianity is however to me (strictly speaking 
a non-christian), a discussion which i cannot participate in.

i have now come to a point where i find that my personal goals for 
participating in here have been largely reached. i feel that i have
reached a more thorough understanding of christianity and the many
thoughts behind it. though that one christian who started this all,
remains still much of a mystery and is likely to remain so.

i am deeply grateful for the opportunity afforded by this file as a place 
of encounter and for your willingness to exchange. i am glad to say that
there is not one person in here to which i have not grown attached to
in one way or another. in the course of time i have come to respect the 
most diverse views and hope that i have not entirely discredited my own.

i am sure and take comfort in the knowledge that we shall meet again, in
the 'world' out there. i shall recognise you by your light and hope to
be recognised by mine.

lastly, let me extend my best wishes to richard christie, patricia 
flanagan and jack martin, these being the first three christians who
welcomed me in here as representative for you all.


may god be with you at all times!



andreas.

    .13
    
    Well, drat!!  It seems like we just got started!
    
    I can only hope this is not a permanent suspension of your
    participation, Andreas-Barnabas.
    
    God be with you,
    Richard
    

    andreas,
    
    I'm sorry to see you go.  Your recent encouragement
    and validation have meant a lot to me.  I have felt 
    both *encouraged* and *welcomed* by them, although 
    I still find little time to note and remain mostly
    a read-only member of this file.
    
    I'll miss you and your sharing.  
    
    Dolores