Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

 The functions of the resurrected bodies will be considerably different
 than the earthly ones.





Jim

    .1  Perhaps, Jim.  I was specifically asking about Jesus, however.
    
    	But as long as you're expanding on the topic, what are the
    functions of our earthly bodies and what will be the functions
    of our resurrected bodies?
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

RE:         <<< Note 893.2 by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "Most Dangerous Child" >>>
                     -< Form follows function hypothesis >-

   > .1  Perhaps, Jim.  I was specifically asking about Jesus, however.
    
    
      Yes, you were..my  reply was in answer to that question.  I believe the
      resurrected bodies of believers will be like that of Jesus..we will eat,
      and have the ability to move through solid objects, etc..you asked what
      we make of that, and the above is what I make of that.


>	But as long as you're expanding on the topic, what are the
>    functions of our earthly bodies and what will be the functions
>    of our resurrected bodies?
    
 
      I wasn't expanding on the topic..I was answering your question.




   Jim    

    .3  Okay, I think I follow your logic.
    
    God raised Christ.  And at some unknown time in the future, the dead
    will be raised and whatever kind of body Jesus had at his resurrection
    the dead who've been raised will also have.
    
    So the resurrected dead will be difficult for some to identify. 
    Sometimes the resurrected dead will caution the mortals, "Don't touch
    me," and other times they'll say, "Go ahead and touch me."  The resurrected
    dead will feel physical hunger, but will be able to penetrate locked
    rooms.
    
    Interesting.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
    

    I think that Jesus, being God, can and does take what ever form is
    appropriate for His purpose. 
    
    			Alfred

 RE .4



 Not exactly Richard, but I'll not continue in the discussion.




 Jim

As far as the form/function aspect, I recommend the book _The Hope of Heaven_
by Helen Oppenheimer (I think that's her name.)  She writes a lot about what
things will be like.  She has a rather Anglican point of view (being British, 
don'tcha know .-)  It's not an easy read.

As far as recognizing one another, she says that won't be a problem.  We will 
be individuals, and will recognize one another as Christ knows us, even though 
our bodies will be perfected.

Just a quick bit for now.  

Peace,

Jim

    This might be an appropriate place to consider Rudolph Bultman's work
    on Existencial Christianity and demytholigizing.  Can we separate the
    mythological imagery from the existential idea?
    

                      
    Information on physical and astral/etheric bodies can be found in
    "Autobiography Of A Yogi", by Yogananda.  He has some amazing stories
    to tell in there.
    
    About my own guru, Yogi Amrit Desai (whom we call Gurudev)...his guru 
    was Swami Kripalvanandji (whom we call Bapuji), and his Bapuji's guru 
    (whom we call Dadaji, also an incarnation of Shiva) - was never really 
    born.  Instead, he took on forms.  There's one story where Bapuji and 
    Dadaji were walking on a beach, and Bapuji could see and talk with him 
    just fine, but nobody else could.  It took Bapuji a while to figure 
    this out, and why people were looking so strangely at him.  (;^) 
    
    Cindy

    
    I serve a risen Savior
    he's in the world today
    I know that he is living
    whatever man may say
    I see His Hand of mercy
    I hear His voice of cheer
    and just the time I need Him
    He's always near
    
    He Lives!  He Lives!
    Christ Jesus lives today
    he walks with me and talks with me
    along life's narrow way!
    
    He Lives!  He Lives!
    Salvation to impart
    You ask me how I know He lives
    He lives within my heart!
    
    Oh How I love Jesus
    Oh How I love Jesus
    Oh How I love Jesus
    Because He first Loved me
    
    At the Cross At the Cross
    where I first saw the light
    and the burden of my heart rolled away
    it was there by faith I received my sight
    and now I am happy all the day!
    
    Hallelujah anyhow
    I never let my troubles get me down [get me down]
    when my troubles come my way
    I hold my head up high and say
    Hallelujan anyhow!

RE:         <<< Note 893.0 by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "Most Dangerous Child" >>>
                             -< The Risen Christ >-

>The risen Christ as presented in the gospels provides us with some
>interesting material to ponder.

>In some accounts Jesus seems to have normal characteristics of a
>living organism.  He asks his disciples what there is to eat.  He
>encourages the disciples to touch him (Luke 24.39).

>In other places, Jesus seems ghost-like, telling Mary Magdalene not to
>touch him and elsewhere passing into an enclosed room.  Jesus often appears
>suddenly.  The people who knew Jesus often don't recognize him.

>What do you make of all this?



 I believe these are the infallible proofs spoken of in Acts 1:3 "Having shewn
 Himself alive after His passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of
 them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God"

 Jesus showed those to whom He appeared that he was not merely "revived"
 after His crucifiction (the "swoon theory") but that He had been raised from
 the dead and that His glorified body was capable of far more than that of
 those without same.  He also showed us, as I mentioned before, that with
 our glorified bodies we will eat, that we will be able to do things that
 we cannot with our current bodies




 Jim

    .11
    
    Amen Jim!

    (.11 Henderson)  It will be interesting to see.
    
    I know Paul indicated that it was his hope to be resurrected like Jesus.
    He said as much in his letters.  In I Corinthians he uses a unique
    term, "spiritual bodies," to describe the phenomenon.
    
    So, when the dead are resurrected, they will have bodies, but not physical
    bodies.  They won't be merely resuscitated corpses, but immortal beings.
    They won't be completely spirit, but have carnal needs.
    
    Richard
    

 Re .13 (J_Christie)




 Seems that way...to me the key is the infallible proof that Jesus was
 ressurected.

 There are other scriptures which talk about the resurrection bodies of
 believers as well, but I don't have them handy.



Jim

The Apostolic Creed reinforces the notion of the resurrection of the body.
Of course, it doesn't say what kind of body.  It just asserts this in a
series of affirmations following an "I believe in."

The notion of the soul going to be with God in a location called Heaven
upon death seems to be one we've inherited from Greek philosophy.

Richard

 Oh...ok, thanks..





 I'll believe the Bible, however.




Jim

    .16  In theory, so did the folks who put together the Apostles Creed.
    
    Richard
    

The whole matter still seems pretty vague to me.

Jesus was resurrected so we assume that that's what's in store for
believers, that resurrection may be included in what it means to be
saved.

It won't be our physical bodies that may be rotting in the ground
for the past 19?? years likes Paul's.  Or perhaps we'll have been
cremated and there will be no physical body to resurrect.  Nevertheless,
our personalities will survive in new non-physical bodies.  Based on
the example of Jesus, this spiritual body will bear evidence of the
wounds which occurred while in the physical body.

Richard

         <<< Note 893.18 by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "Most Dangerous Child" >>>


>Jesus was resurrected so we assume that that's what's in store for
>believers, that resurrection may be included in what it means to be
>saved.

 1 Corninthians 15:42-50.



>It won't be our physical bodies that may be rotting in the ground
>for the past 19?? years likes Paul's.  Or perhaps we'll have been
>cremated and there will be no physical body to resurrect.  Nevertheless,
>our personalities will survive in new non-physical bodies.  Based on

 If God can create life, he can certainly regroup all of the elements of
 our bodies..our souls will have already survived having been separated
 from our bodies at death.


>the example of Jesus, this spiritual body will bear evidence of the
>wounds which occurred while in the physical body.


 Well, I don't know..my best friend, who is blind is convinced (and I believe it
 to be true) that he will see, and I believe that physical wounds etc that we
 have in our earthly bodies will be gone..I don't have scripture to back it
 up, but I believe the only scars we will see in heaven will be those on
 Jesus..



 Jim

If it was God's original purpose for mankind to reside in heaven, then
he would have created them there in the first place as he did the angels.
Instead he placed Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, which in itself
explains God's main purpose for mankind and the earth (Genesis 1:28,
Isaiah 55:11)


Why is it assumed that all who are resurrected will be given a heavenly 
resurrection?. The Bible certainly speaks of a heavenly resurrection 
but there is a purpose for those who receive it, that is to be kings and 
priests and to rule over the earth (Revelation 5:9,10). Who do they rule 
over?. 

There are many accounts in the Bible regarding a resurrection taking
place such as Lazarus, Jesus was the only one mentioned as having a 
heavenly resurrection.  Will the majority of people receive an earthly
resurrection? (John 5:28,29).

Phil.

  >The whole matter still seems pretty vague to me.

  >Jesus was resurrected so we assume that that's what's in store for
  >believers, that resurrection may be included in what it means to be
  >saved.

Really, Richard, this makes you sound like some uniformed neophyte,
not someone who has pondered and studied religious works (including
the Bible) for years.

Why do you talk about things like Greek mythology and blind assumptions
by believers when we have very accurate written records that discuss
these issues in detail telling us how we know things and what will
happen?

Collis

                         
    Re.19
    
    Jim,
    
    I'm undergoing some past-life healings right now, and am fairly certain
    that the body never forgets, be it the physical or astral (heavenly)
    body.  Your friend who is blind, though, will indeed 'see', however it
    will probably be different from the kind of 'seeing' that we experience 
    and he currently does not.  Rather he will be able to 'see' with the
    entire body, and so will we all.
    
    It's similar to what your friend experiences now - though your friend
    cannot 'see' as we can, still he/she is far more sensitive through the
    other senses to try to compensate for this.  For example, your friend
    can probably walk up to a wall, feel its presence, and stop just before
    walking into it, whereas if we had our eyes closed and tried the same 
    thing, we'd probably walk right into it.    
    
    Cindy

Note 893.21 JACKSON

>Really, Richard, this makes you sound like some uniformed neophyte,

You won't catch me in a uniform! ;-}

>Why do you talk about things like Greek mythology and blind assumptions
>by believers when we have very accurate written records that discuss
>these issues in detail telling us how we know things and what will
>happen?

Of what written records are you speaking?  This is an excellent opportunity
to teach all of us.

Richard

I'm really not too concerned about life after death.  I'm more concerned
about life before death (life after birth).

More and more, I'm coming to the conclusion that Christianity is not so
much a next world religion.  It's more a this world religion.

Whatever happens next happens.  I can only do something with the precious
little time I know I've been given.

Shalom,
Richard

    
>I'm really not too concerned about life after death.  I'm more concerned
>about life before death (life after birth).

    I'm not to concerned about life after death but that's mainly because
    I believe that that's covered for me. I'm too much still on my own
    here. Not completely on my own of course. But there is more to worry
    about here.

>More and more, I'm coming to the conclusion that Christianity is not so
>much a next world religion.  It's more a this world religion.

    I'm not sure what a "this world religion" is. Or a "next world" one.

>Whatever happens next happens.  I can only do something with the precious
>little time I know I've been given.

    Ah, but you can do something about what happens next! That's one of
    the freedoms of Christianity. One no longer has to worry about the
    next life. I don't know how much time I have in this life. I could
    go tonight or live to be 120. At least I don't have to worry about
    getting something done first. The important thing, accepting Jesus,
    is done. 

    			Alfred
    			Alfred

    Actually Richard, I can undertand from where you are coming.  I've
    been there too.
    
    The problem is everything we do in this life effects the eternal life. 
    Our choices have consequences... so being concerned with this life is
    definitely a good thing... but not preoccupied to the point of not
    living it.
    
    Be careful what you *dismiss* as important.... the squeaky wheel gets
    the grease, but oftimes in the internal mechanism which doesn't squeak
    needs the attention. 
    
    With love,
    Nancy	

RE:             <<< Note 893.22 by TNPUBS::PAINTER "Planet Crayon" >>>
                               -< some thoughts >-

                         
   >    It's similar to what your friend experiences now - though your friend
   > cannot 'see' as we can, still he/she is far more sensitive through the
   > other senses to try to compensate for this.  For example, your friend
   > can probably walk up to a wall, feel its presence, and stop just before
   > walking into it, whereas if we had our eyes closed and tried the same 
   > thing, we'd probably walk right into it.    
    
    

     Well, most of the time it works..sometimes I'll take him places and 
     will forget he's blind and will lead him right into a wall or something
     :-/  He and his wife used to play hide and seek and he'd always find her
     cuz he could hear her breathing ;-)



 Jim

I don't worry about the next world or the afterlife or whatever you
want to call it.

Shalom,
Richard

 Me neither...

    .29  That's good, I guess.
    
    :-)
    Richard
    

    I heard a song written by Phil Ochs last evening called "When I'm
    Gone," which articulates well my thinking about death.  I'll try
    to find the words and share some excerpts here.  The melody you'll
    have to hear from some other source. :-)
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

RE:    <<< Note 893.20 by RDGENG::YERKESS "bring me sunshine in your smile" >>>
         -< Will all receive a heavenly resurrection? Lazarus didn't. >-



>There are many accounts in the Bible regarding a resurrection taking
>place such as Lazarus, Jesus was the only one mentioned as having a 
>heavenly resurrection.  Will the majority of people receive an earthly
>resurrection? (John 5:28,29).



 Lazarus' "ressurection" was more of a healing.  As he came out of the tomb, he
 was still wrapped in the grave clothes..Jesus' grave clothes remained behind. 
 I believe (though of course we have no Biblical account) Lazarus and the others
 Jesus raised from the dead went on to "die" again.  Jesus, and those believers
 who die in Christ will die, only to live forever in their resurrection bodies
(1 Cor 15-42-50 [specifically verse 50])




 Jim

    There have been some pretty interesting thoughts over the past few days
    about this and the next life.  I remember as a child being obsessed
    with the next life and what happens after we die.  I would stay up all
    night long and worry about it.  It was so bad that I really didn't
    think about my life here on Earth.  When I was 15 I became a Christian
    and all this stopped because I knew in my heart that everything was now
    settled.  In a way, it gave me back my life here on Earth to live
    fully.  I rarely even think about the next life because I know it is
    guaranteed to be in Heaven with God because of Jesus' sacrifice and
    resurrection and my acceptance of this gift.  This makes *this* life
    great!!
    
    Rob
    

Some of the lyrics to "When I'm Gone"


	And I won't be running from the rain
				when I'm gone,
	And I can't even suffer from the pain
				when I'm gone,
	There's nothing I can lose or I can gain
				when I'm gone,

	So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here.

	Won't see the golden of the sun
				when I'm gone,
	And the evenings and the mornings will be one
						when I'm gone,
	Can't sing louder than the guns when I'm gone,
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here.

	And I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
	      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone,
	Can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here.
	   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

RE:          <<< Note 893.33 by SNOC02::LINCOLNR "No Pain, No Gain..." >>>
                          -< This and the next life >-

   >    fully.  I rarely even think about the next life because I know it is
   > guaranteed to be in Heaven with God because of Jesus' sacrifice and
   > resurrection and my acceptance of this gift.  This makes *this* life
   > great!!
    
   

    Amen, Rob...and, though some seem to think its the case, we don't give up
    on life here on earth.  There is plenty of work to be done while we await
    that day.  


  Jim    

RE:    <<< Note 893.20 by RDGENG::YERKESS "bring me sunshine in your smile" >>>
   



>Why is it assumed that all who are resurrected will be given a heavenly 
>resurrection?. The Bible certainly speaks of a heavenly resurrection 
>but there is a purpose for those who receive it, that is to be kings and 
>priests and to rule over the earth (Revelation 5:9,10). Who do they rule 
>over?. 



 Phillipians 3:20-21 "For our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven; from
 whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ who will change
 our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, accord-
 ing to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto Himself".

 Seems to indicate that all (who are saved) will receive a glorified body.

    I thought I'd list a few bible passages that I hope will clarify any 
    misconceptions of the risen Christ and who he is. (in nature and in
    body). However before I go into that, there is a very important passage
    that I think we should not neglect when we talk about life, death and
    afterlife.
    
    HEB 9:27 - 	Just as man IS DESTINED TO DIE ONCE, and after that to face
    		judgement, 28: so Christ was sacrificed once to take away
    		the sins of many people....
    		(what this means to me is that there is no second chance.)
     
    *JESUS IS GOD IN THE FLESH.
    		
    JHN 1:1  -  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
    		and THE WORD WAS GOD.
    
    JHN 1:14 -  The WORD BECAME FLESH and made his dwelling among us.
    
   *HE TOOK ON THE NATURE OF A SERVANT.
    
    PHIL 2:7 -  But made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a
    	        servant, being made in human likeness...
    
    *HIS SAME BODY WOULD BE RAISED TO LIFE
    
    JHN 2:19 -  Jesus answered them, "DESTROY THIS TEMPLE, and I will
    		rainse it again in three days."
        2:21 -  But the temple he had spoken of WAS HIS BODY.
    
    *JESUS IS RAISED WITH THE SAME, GLORIFIED BODY (NOT A SPIRIT BODY)
    
    MATH 26:32  "But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into
     		Galilee."
    
    LUK 24:38- 	He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do 
    		doubts rise in your minds? :39  Look at my hands and my
    		feet. It is myself? Touch me and see; A GHOST DOES NOT
    		HAVE FLESH AND BONES, as you see I have."
    
    THOMAS WANTS PROOF THAT IT IS THE SAME BODY
    
    JHN 20:25-  ...Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my
    		finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his
    		side, I will not believe it."
    
    JESUS IS TAKEN UP TO HEAVEN IN BODILY FORM AND WILL RETURN THE SAME WAY
    
    ACT 1:3 -   After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and
    		gave many convincing proofs that he was alive...
    
    ACT 1:11-   ...THIS SAME JESUS, who has been taken from you into heaven
    		will come back in the same way you have seen him go into
    		heaven.
    
    REV 1:7 - 	Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see
    		him, even those who pierced him.
    
   *JESUS BEARS THE MARKS IN HEAVEN
    
    REV 5:6 -   Then I saw a Lamb, LOOKING AS IF IT HAD BEEN SLAIN,
    		standing in the center of the throne...
    
    Oleg
        

re .36

Jim,

Paul, addressed the letter to the "holy ones" (Phillipians 1:1) that is
all those whom are given a heavenly calling by the Father. One would
have to show who are the "holy ones", btw I don't consider myself as
such a person.

But just take a moment to think what benefit would come from a government 
rule of such "holy ones", as mentioned in Revelation 5:9,10. Subjects of 
such a government, with Jesus as leader, would be saved from the problems 
in life we see today. Surely, those on earth who experience such rule, will 
see salvation. During his ministry, Jesus gave a foregleam of the things he 
and what his corulers will accomplish when they rule over the earth through 
the many miracles he performed. In fact in the, commonly known, Lord's prayer
Jesus told his followers to pray for "for they kingdom to come and they will 
to be done on earth as it is in heaven." or words to that effect (Matt 6:9,10
also compare Daniel 2:44).

When Jehovah's will is done on earth, those who experience it will have seen
salvation as they live on a paradise earth just as God had orginally intended
it (Genesis 1:28, Isaiah 55:11).

Phil.

RE:    <<< Note 893.38 by RDGENG::YERKESS "bring me sunshine in your smile" >>>
   


>Paul, addressed the letter to the "holy ones" (Phillipians 1:1) that is
>all those whom are given a heavenly calling by the Father. One would


 NASB and KJV translate "holy ones" as saints...all believers.




 Jim

    I hope you guys don't mind me jumping in on this subject.
    First of all, before I'd get into the subject of the kingdom to come,
    I think it is best to have a concrete understanding of how we can
    get there.  I don't have a very strong understanding of the kingdom to
    come, but I do have a very strong understanding that when I die, I will
    be with Christ! The following are just a few scriptures that spell out
    the fact that we will not inherit the kingdom of God unless we
    surrender our lives to Jesus!             
    
    JHN 3:3   -	In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can
    		see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
    JHN 10:9  - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.
    JHN 14:6  - Jesus answered, " I am the way the way the truth and the
    		life. No one comes to the father except through me.
    ACT 4:12  - Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other
    		name under heaven given men by which we must be saved."
    1 JHN 5:12- He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the
    		Son of God does not have life.
    
    THOSE WHO ARE SAVED WILL LIVE WITH CHRIST
    
    ROM 14:8  - If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die
    		to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to 
    		the Lord.
    
    PHIL 1:21 - For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
    		22: If I am to go on living in the body, this will
    		mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose?
    		I do not know! 23: I am torn between the two; I desire
    		to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;...
               
    God Bless,
    Oleg

Note 893.36

>>Why is it assumed that all who are resurrected will be given a heavenly 
>>resurrection?.

> Phillipians 3:20-21 "For our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven; from
> whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ who will change
> our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, accord-
> ing to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto Himself".

> Seems to indicate that all (who are saved) will receive a glorified body.

A "glorified" body in Heaven or on earth?

Paul definitely believed in the resurrection of the body.  He believed the
dead would be raised.  Paul was a Pharisee.  This is a Pharisaic belief.

Richard

RE:         <<< Note 893.41 by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "Most Dangerous Child" >>>
                             -< Paul, a Pharisee >-




>Paul definitely believed in the resurrection of the body.  He believed the
>dead would be raised.  Paul was a Pharisee.  This is a Pharisaic belief.


  so did Martha (brother of Lazarus whom Jesus raised from the dead)

  "Jesus said unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.  Martha saith unto Him,
   I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day"

   John 11:23,24.




Jim

    .42  Yep, sounds like it to me, too.
    
    Richard
    

  .42  Jim


  >so did Martha (brother of Lazarus

  Well, *I* learned something new today.


   @   @
     >         <---- *BIG* smiley face
  \_____/


  Steve

    I don't think we can assume that because Lazarus was once resurrected
    physically that he would not be again resurrected to attend Jesus
    in Heaven. Unless he's still around somewhere and hasn't made himself
    known?

    Jesus told His disciples that he was going to prepare a place for
    them with the Father. That doesn't sound like an earthly resurrection
    to me.

    		Alfred

.45 Alfred,
    
>    Jesus told His disciples that he was going to prepare a place for
>    them with the Father. That doesn't sound like an earthly resurrection
>    to me.
    
    I suppose one could presume that Jesus was talking about an afterlife
    experience, even though he doesn't say that's what he's talking about.
    Certainly, this is the traditional understanding of what Jesus is saying
    here.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard

    I don't know if anyone has mentioned it previously, but many think that
    Enoch in the Old Testament was physically taken to Heaven while he was
    still alive.  (Gen. 5:24)  I'm not quite sure if this would qualify as
    "resurrection" as he was not dead yet.
    
    Interesting thought though.
    
    Rob
    

   Note 893.47  Rob


   >I don't know if anyone has mentioned it previously, but many think that
   >Enoch in the Old Testament was physically taken to Heaven while he was
   >still alive.  (Gen. 5:24)  I'm not quite sure if this would qualify as
   >"resurrection" as he was not dead yet.
   
   Gen. 5.24 doesn't say Enoch went to heaven.  In light of what 1 Cor 15:50
   and John 3:13 say, it would be reasonable to believe that Jehovah took
   Enoch's life in such a fashion that he didn't experience the *pangs* of
   death.  Also, it would appear that Jehovah disposed of Enoch's body in a
   similar way as he did Moses' body (see De. 34:5,6; Jude 9).  Many also
   think that Elisha went to heaven alive in his physical form, but if
   one looks further, one can see that later on Elisha sent a letter  of
   reproof to the king of Judah (see 2 Ki. 2:11; 2 Chron. 21:1,12-15).


   Steve                                                      

    .47 & .48
    
    How about Elijah?  Did he not ascend without dying?
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    re:  .49  Richard
    
    Oops!  Error!  Error!  Blunder, big time.  In my reply .48 I referred
    to Elisha when I meant to write *Elijah*.  Sorry for the confusion.
    
    
    Steve

    re .49 (CSC32::J_CHRISTIE)
    
>    How about Elijah?  Did he not ascend without dying?
    
    	2Chr 21:12 states that years later, Elijah sent a message to king
    Jehoram.  Although some commentators assume that this was NOT really
    Elijah, but someone borrowing his name to add weight to the message
    [which isn't a characteristic of a true, prophetic message], if this
    really *was* Elijah, then it's obvious that he wasn't taken to heaven
    (in death).
    
    	Interestingly, after Elijah was taken up in the chariot of fire,
    Elisha didn't mourn him as dead, but instead, sent out a search party
    to look for him.  Evidently, Elisha didn't consider him to be dead. 
    Since Elisha was a prophet, it stands to reason that his abilities as a
    prophet would have told him Elijah was dead, despite the lack of
    physical evidence (i.e., a dead body).
    
    
    								-mark.