Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    
    Somehow I think something is being left out here.
    
    >Barney is objectionable, warns Chambers, because he teaches acceptance.
    
    Acceptance of what? What does Chambers say Barney is teaching
    acceptance of?
    
>Why weren't we being warned earlier about this crisis?  Why have we remained
>so silent so long about that Satanic Fred Rogers, or that anti-Christ Kermit
>the Frog?
    
    What is wrong with Rev Rogers show? I haven't seen Barney to compare
    but I'd be hard pressed to find bad messages in MisterRogers
    Neighborhood.
    
    			Alfred

    .1  Greetings, Alfred..
    
    I did not enter the whole article, but the Rev. Chambers apparently
    objects to Barney's tolerance of others.
    
    Other Chambers quotes: "He (Barney) teaches alternative families.
    And the program makes a purple dinosaur the hero of these kids instead
    of real-life heroes they should be imitating."
    
    "Barney is very much politically correct and liberal in its agenda."
    
    "Barney is teaching kids that we must accept people as they are --
    whether they're homosexual or lesbian."
    
    Is this message fundamentally different from the one we've heard for
    years on PBS from that pinko and rather effeminate Fred Rogers or from
    that greeno and seldom aggressive Kermit the Frog??
    
    Richard

    
    
    -1
    
     If the little purple monster is teaching Multiculturalism then I
    would have to agree with the Rev Chambers.
    
    
    David

    
    -2
    
     ...and if he is really teaching the acceptance of the gay lifestyle
    ( along with Kermit) then I would doubly agree with the Rev Chambers.
    
    
    David

    .3 & .4  I'm with you, David!  Let's kick 'em all off the air!  How dare
    they pollute the airwaves with such subversive and immoral garbage!
    Let's not preach or teach or practice acceptance or tolerance of anyone
    except people like us: straight, white, decent, American patriots and
    our women.
    
    Where's a real man, like Senator Joseph McCarthy, when you need one?
    
    Richard
    

    
    -1
    
    .. a little melodramatic aren't we :-)
    
    > Let's not teach or preach
    
      Let's not teach that what is wrong is right.. Would you be able to 
    look at Christ on the cross and give him the same lecture?? 
    
    > straight white decent American
    
      Nope! Just followers of Christ any Race, Creed, and color...
    
    
    David

Note 773.6

>      Let's not teach that what is wrong is right..

Sound advice.  Presumptuous, of course, but sound.

>    Would you be able to 
>    look at Christ on the cross and give him the same lecture?? 
    
I wouldn't pretend to lecture Christ.  I've never heard of such an obtuse
thing to do.  But God knows, I do try to stride by Christ's lectures and
example.

In a religion that was born in a stable, an open door goes without saying.

Peace,
Richard

re Note 773.3 by COMET::DYBEN:

>      If the little purple monster is teaching Multiculturalism then I
>     would have to agree with the Rev Chambers.
  
        Isn't this attack against "multiculturalism" just a more
        refined version of racism?  Isn't this just saying that we
        really are superior to other ethnic groups, but that the
        difference is in our culture and not in our genes?

        Bob

No, someone who objects to MultiCulturalism is saying that

	1. the Great Melting Pot was what made this country great
and	2. abandoning this for separate cultures is eventually
	   going to get us into serious trouble.

Now _I_ don't think we have to wipe out someone's culture when s/he
immigrates to the U.S.  But some adaptation may be required.

I don't know what to do about behaviour of other cultures when many people
object to these behaviours or how to determine if their objections are
legitimate.

/john

Note 773.6

>      Nope! Just followers of Christ any Race, Creed, and color...

Any race and color?  Watch out, David!  That's tredding indistinguishably close
to the "multiculturalism" you claim to abhor!  Or perhaps you're talking about
the "any race or color," as long as they disown their roots in favor of
white, straight, conservative, male-dominant culture.
    
And followers of Christ of "any creed"?  Why, every exclusionary fundmentalist
would most assuredly affirm that *this* is a contradiction in terms.

Richard

    If Barney is teaching acceptance of homosexuality, then he is New Age
    and antibiblical.  However, he is teaching integration of races, then I
    have no problem with him.
    
    Nancy

	And if he teaches both???


Glen

    
    
    Richard,
    
    
    > an open door goes without saying
    
     Your not advocating an open door. Your advocating acceptance of
    something that GOD said is a DOOR you should not open and enter
    cuz it is a SIN!!!
    
    
    David

        re Barney:

        I think that this all goes to show you (or at least me) that
        what we see in something is determined by our biases.

        Probably because Barney is produced in Texas and is insipidly
        sweet (my 8-year-old still watches him), I assumed it came
        out of a conservative "family values" background.

        I never saw anything in it that was at all liberal or "new
        age" (although some fundamentalists seem to have a problem
        with ANYTHING that is make-believe).

        Bob

 I can't stomach the program long enough to find out what the 
 purple creature is trying to teach our kids..since mine are past
 the age to which Barney seems to be directed, I'm more concerned about
 what MTV is teaching them.  MTV, in my opinion, is a far bigger threat.


 I did find it rather frightening that several kids wearing Barney costumes
 for Halloween were attacked by other kids during that celebration this year



 Jim

    I'm reminded of a TV show, Benson. Some of you may remember it. It took
    place in the household of some Governor. In one episode two books were
    send out to the wrong groups. A book on Tank warfare was sent to a
    group looking at "sin in books" while a book on sex was sent to some
    other group. The tank warfare book was returned with all sorts of
    comments about foot fetishes and other sexual practices the book
    allegedly promoted. People find what they want to find where they want
    to find it.

    		Alfred

    I have a 1 year old son who loves Barney.  I videotaped three of the
    episodes.  One is Barneys Birthday, the second is a visit from Mother
    Goose, and the third was about different professions we can take part
    in, e.g. owning a restaurant, being a firefighter, etc.
    
    Although I think Barney is inane and unimaginative along with the fact
    that I would love to see him get beat up on Worldwide wrestling, I have
    not seen anything questionable from my limited exposure.  Keep in mind
    folks, the training you give your child at home will far outweigh
    anything Barney the beer bellied dinosaur can provide.  Barney would
    have to be pretty overt in his comments to get a child to accept
    alternative lifestyles.
    
    Re: Multiculturalism - It is not racism to be against this. 
    Multiculturalism is a strong effort to Balkanize America.  It won't
    work and its not working.  Give it a rest!!
    
    -Jack

re Note 773.9 by COVERT::COVERT:

> No, someone who objects to MultiCulturalism is saying that
> 
> 	1. the Great Melting Pot was what made this country great
> and	2. abandoning this for separate cultures is eventually
> 	   going to get us into serious trouble.
> 
> Now _I_ don't think we have to wipe out someone's culture when s/he
> immigrates to the U.S.  But some adaptation may be required.

        I just want to understand what you understand about the
        "Melting Pot":

        When an individual immigrates to the U.S. you say "some
        adaptation may be required."  On both sides?  Do you
        understand that a "Melting Pot" implies that both the
        immigrant and the society into which they are coming are
        changed as a result?

        I just want to make sure that you're not advocating both a
        "Melting Pot" and advocating an American culture little
        changed by the cultural background of immigrants.

        Perhaps you understand something different by
        "multicultural", but a "Melting Pot" will be of necessity be
        very "multicultural" in that it will be composed of elements
        from many cultures.

        As a result, the "American culture" of the next century will
        be quite different from the "American culture" of the past
        century, since the cultures from which immigrants are coming
        are different.

        I just want to know if you really believe that this is "what
        made this country great".

        I do.

        Bob

Note 773.13

>     Your not advocating an open door. Your advocating acceptance of
>    something that GOD said is a DOOR you should not open and enter
>    cuz it is a SIN!!!
    
David,

	I'm assuming here that you are speaking of acceptance of gays
and lesbians.  I'm assuming here that you aren't saying that "multiculturalism"
is a sin, but simply wrong because it is touted by the "politically correct"
and you're tired of agonizing over being a white guy and bearing the sins of
your white guy predecessors.

	Well, I've got news for you.  There are gays sinners and there are
straight sinners.  Jesus sat at the same table and broke bread with sinners.
I can do no less.

	Christ didn't come for the upright and those who are already well.

	Acceptance of gays is not the same thing as acceptance of sexual
acts between persons of the same sex.

	Even if Barney promotes acceptance of gays (which I've never seen
him do) I seriously doubt that Barney promotes sexual activity of any kind.
Personally, I find Barney more boring than Fred Rogers, and that's going
some.  Why someone would choose to grandstand against Barney is beyond me.
Who would Chambers replace him with??  Xuxa?!  :-}

Peace,
Richard

	Jack, there is a Beavis and Butthead T-shirt that has Barney getting
hit in the head with a baseball bat but saying he still loves B&B. Is this what
you were looking for?


Glen

    Yeah...that is perfect!!

There is a good picture of Barney on 
SSDEVO::DISK$BSA_HARD2:[RICHARD.PUBLIC]BARNEY.JPG.  If you don't have a reader, 
XV.EXE, in the same directory, is a VMS based program that can read both .JPG and
.GIF files.  Enjoy.

/Mike

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Subject: Barney News
Organization: Network Computing Devices, Mountain View, CA
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 09:43:25 PST
From: Jim Fulton <jim@ncd.com>


>From today's San Jose Mercury News:

		    Preacher calls Barney a demon

	Barney the dinosaur, preschoolers' favorite purple pal,
	has been declared a "new age demon" by a right-wing radio
	evangelist.  "Straight out of the new age and the world
	of demons and devils," the reverend Joseph Chambers says.

	The cult of Barney, Chambers says, is further proof that
	"America is under siege from the powers of darkness."

	Chambers further complains:  "Barney is teaching kids
	that we must accept everyone as they are -- whether
	they're homosexuals or lesbians."

	Chambers' Charlotte, N.C.-based radio ministry is putting
	out a "Barney the Purple Messiah" booklet, previously
	titled "Barney the New Age Demon."

	Explains Chambers:  "It's a less provocative title."

re Note 773.23 by CVG::THOMPSON:

> 	Chambers further complains:  "Barney is teaching kids
> 	that we must accept everyone as they are -- whether
> 	they're homosexuals or lesbians."
  
        This is precisely what "love the sinner" MUST mean if it is
        to mean anything significant at all.  It can't mean "love the
        sinner who is no longer a sinner"!

        The above says "accept everyone" -- which means the PERSON,
        not all that that person does.

        (Besides, I've heard a lot of Barney, and I've never heard
        any reference to "homosexuals or lesbians" or any other sin
        by name or generically!)

        Bob

BARNEY DOES BREAKFAST AND CHARGED WITH MURDER 
Washington June 25, 1993 (PETER FUNK PRESS) 

Barney the dinosaur, star of the children's television show Barney, went
berserk this morning during his show and ate three of his child
co-stars.

The mayhem occurred in the Pretend Room while Barney and his co-stars
sang the song "Shoo Fly Don't Bother Me." In the second verse, Barney
stopped singing and muttered that he had not eaten breakfast. He started
staring at the children. Drops of saliva dripped from his mouth.  His
stomach growled. His eyes widened and pupils dilated much like someone
on the third week of a radical diet of designer water and raw grass, who
stumbles upon a cheesecake in a bakery window. Just as the children
finished the song, Barney started to shiver. Suddenly, he just grabbed
the children and one by one dropped them down his mouth like appetizers.

A fourth child only escaped because Barney ate the third child too fast,
and he bent over choking for several minutes, allowing the child to run
away. Barney nearly passed out, but a fortuitous belch cleared the
obstruction. He then stood erect, complained of a severe thirst, and
asked for a double gin and tonic.

This all seemed very ironic, since Barney had just given a ten minute
lesson, demonstrating to children how to chew one's food properly to
prevent choking. The lesson even included a rhyming song with lyrics
instructing children on the proper technique of the Heimlich maneuver.
Following it, Barney gave a ten minute plea for responsible drinking
among kindergartners.

Before Barney finished his gin and tonic, the police arrived and
arrested him on three counts of first degree murder, one count of
attempted murder, and a misdemeanor charge of chewing with his mouth
open.

The Public Broadcasting Corporation (PBS), producers of Barney,
estimates seven million children and 300,000 very strange adults saw the
killings. However, it estimates that over sixty million people saw the
show that night when many of its local affiliates broadcast the show
again as part of their fund drive.  PBS local affiliates claimed record
donations from viewers during the rebroadcast, especially when the
stations ran Barney eating breakfast in slow motion. They also reported
receiving thousands of supportive letters which said, "Now that's what I
call culture.  Keep it up!"

News of Barney's arrest shocked the show business world.  Barney comes
from a show business family. His grandfather did stunt work in the film
King Kong and worked as technical advisor on the film King Kong Versus
Mohammed Ali. Barney's father played in the movie 1,000,000 Years B.C.
and its sequel 1,000,001 B.C. His mother ran an acting school, which
became famous for teaching iguanas the Stanislasky methods.

Barney began his career as a tap dancer. Later, he starred in many
Broadway shows in which he broke down many barriers against reptiles. He
played Professor Higgins in an all serpent version of Lerner and Lowe's
My Fair Lady. He played Curly in Oklahoma in the first show produced and
directed by stegosauruses. His music theater career ended though when he
tripped over his tail during a dance scene in West Side Story. He
received a severe head injury, and his I.Q dropped seventy points,
giving him the intelligence of a learned potato. He had to quit the
music theater but got a job playing himself on own children's TV show.

Upon Barney's arrest, he hired flamboyant defense attorney A.P.  Hee-Haw
Ripsnort to defend him. Ripsnort is a smooth, down home, southern lawyer
who speaks with a New York accent. He wears Rhet Butler suits with a
prostitute's lace garter belt wrapped around his upper arm.  In court,
he wears no shoes or socks and asks beautiful jurywomen it they'd like
to arm wrestle sometime. While cross-examining witnesses, he eats corn
on the cob and offers prosecuting attorneys a chew of his tobacco. He
specializes in defending TV creature actors. For instance he has
defended Dino of The Flintstones, Alf of the show Alf, and Herve
Villachaez of Fantasy Island. He became famous for successfully
defending Kermit the Frog of the Muppets from a vicious palimony suit
brought on by Miss Piggy.

Ripsnort said he would base Barney's defense on temporary insanity, for
only hours before the killings Barney had watched a pirate video
cassette of the film Jurassic Park fifteen times consecutively.
Ripsnort will make the argument that the gratuitous violence in the film
Jurassic Park motivated Barney to consume children, a diet that even the
American Pork Producers does not approve because of its high
cholesterol. Ripsnort intends to present clips from Jurassic Park,
showing dinosaurs hunting and eating humans, to the jury as part of
Barney's defense. He will precede the clips with a Bugs Bunny cartoon.

No matter the outcome of the trial, however, Barney has no future on
television. The Federal Communications Center (FCC) intends to ban him
from public airwaves for eating children in daylight hours, a violation
of FCC rules.

    

    I think Barney is demonic.

    My three-year old is addicted to his show and *made* me dress her up as
    a Barney acolyte for Halloween this year.

    I too, was deceived.  I thought it was just another stupid kid's show. 
    But, it's truly awful.  Barney is another piece of sexist crap.  He's
    the all-powerful male figure.  Baby Bop is juvenile, female.

    Ruth

    RE: .25 I think that Barney's lawyer should look for jurors who
    have worked in daycare, kindergarten, or other programs that involve
    hours of listening to little kids sing the same songs over and over
    and over again. They'll relate to Barney's understandable desire
    to eat someone. :-)

    			Alfred

    .25  Thanks, Ruth!!  Humor can sometimes put things into perspective
    faster and more clearly than any other approach.  And frankly, I'm
    still giggling aloud.
    
    *<8*}
    
    Richard
    

Accepting others as they are.  Somehow, it doesn't seem all that
sinister.  In fact, I am extremely pleased that God (evidently
imitating the demons previously referred to?) has chosen to accept
me as I am.

My daughter's favorite show is Barney, replacing Mr. Rogers which
she watched for about 3 years.  Although I haven't seen many of
the shows, what I have seen is a dinasour who loves to have
children use their imaginations for play - something that I think
is wonderful (as most shows tend to stifle the imagination).

Collis

    re: .20
    
    >>My daughter's favorite show is Barney, replacing Mr. Rogers
    
    although, in my opinion this is like saying Beelzebub replacing
    Legion....
    
    
    <insane laughter>
    
    Ruth

	re: 773.14 Bob.

	> (although some fundamentalists seem to have a problem
	> with ANYTHING that is make-believe).

	In the light of the fundamentalists' belief in the creation stories,
	I find this statement to be food for thought.

	By the way, the statement also set off a chain of word-play
	associations in me.  "make" > "create"  and "belief" > "faith"
	leading to "faith in creation" However: "make-belief" > "myth".
	Somewhere, there's a watermark message, I'm sure.   :-)

	Greetings, Derek.

re Note 773.31 by VNABRW::BUTTON:

> 	> (although some fundamentalists seem to have a problem
> 	> with ANYTHING that is make-believe).
> 
> 	In the light of the fundamentalists' belief in the creation stories,
> 	I find this statement to be food for thought.

        Actually, it's quite consistent: a fundamentalist would
        maintain that the creation stories are 100% true history and
        not in any way make-believe.

> 	By the way, the statement also set off a chain of word-play
> 	associations in me.  "make" > "create"  and "belief" > "faith"
> 	leading to "faith in creation" However: "make-belief" > "myth".
> 	Somewhere, there's a watermark message, I'm sure.   :-)
  
        Interesting!  Remember, however, that a "myth" is a story
        that explains something important -- the story of a myth
        COULD be true, but the power of a myth is not in its historic
        accuracy but in its power to explain.  Most fundamentalists
        seem to think that a story that is not historically true has
        little or no power to explain or, worse yet, is an attempt to
        mislead.

        Bob

    here, this will make Jack's day! ;-)
    
     
    Given: Barney is a cute purple dinosaur.
    
    Extract the Roman numerals:
    (and remember that the Romans had no letter 'U', they used 'V' instead)
    
    CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR
    CV    V  L  DI    V
    
    Add them:
    100 + 5 + 5 + 50 + 500 + 1 + 5 = 666
    
    Q. E. D.  We suspected it all along.

re Note 773.33 by FRETZ::HEISER:

>                                 -< Barney the beast ;-) >-
  
        Well this week John deBrine's (not sure of the spelling)
        radio program has been featuring a book entitled (something
        like) "14 Things Witches don't want Parents to Know".

        Would you like to know about the Wizard of Oz?  How about the
        Smurfs?  Then there's the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and
        the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers.  Yep -- all occultic. 
        Just imagine all of them following the lordship of Barney.

        Bob

    I am particularly interested in the Wizard of Oz.
    
    At Clemson University, they had a class on political satire.  It was
    taught that this movie was actually a satire on the following:
    
    1. ScareCrow - Represented farmers and how stupid they were.
    2. Tinman    - " Industry and how it was heartless.
    3. Lion -  Represented Adelai Stevenson and how cowardly he was.
    4. Witches of North and South (Book) - Amiability after the Civil War.
    5. Yellowbrick Road - Gold Standard will bring more prosperity.
    6. Ruby Slippers - Silver Standard will bring wealth like magic.
    
    I can see some of these possibly fitting...but not all of them.
    
    -Jack

    Well Bob, I was joking about the beast comment.
    
>        Would you like to know about the Wizard of Oz?  How about the
>        Smurfs?  
    
    That would be witchcraft and divination.
    
    >Then there's the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and the Mighty Morphin' 
    >Power Rangers.  
    
    Here you would add Eastern Mysticism to divination.
    
    Mike (who's kids watch some of these programs)

re Note 773.36 by FRETZ::HEISER:

> >        Would you like to know about the Wizard of Oz?  How about the
> >        Smurfs?  
>     
>     That would be witchcraft and divination.
  
        Well, those are in there, but it's worse than that!

        The Wizard represents God -- who turns out to be a phony!

        And the needs of Dorothy and her companions are ultimately
        met by what they have inside themselves -- humanism!

        Bob

    I used to have fundamentalist neighbors who forbade their children from
    seeing the "Wizard of OZ" and a host of other traditional children's
    stories.  I'm not sure they missed out on anything really important.
    
    But this much became evident, their children felt like outsiders whenever
    they were in a group of children who shared a common cultural heritage
    of knowing these stories.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    Okay, I can see it now.  It's been such a long time since I've seen it
    that I really don't remember the secular humanist slant.  STTNG is a
    different story though. 

    "I don't think we're in Kansas anymore, Toto!"
    

    	Of all the fantastic characters listed in previous notes, I only
	know the Wizard of Oz and the other heros of that story.

	We in Europe have been spared most or all of the others. I do not
	think that we have suffered significantly either morally or
	emotionally due to this.

	Neither do I think that Judy Garland and her companions have led us
	down a yellow brick -- or any other -- path to hell.

	Greetings, Derek.

	P.S. It was a wonderful film, even if that does date me. Did you
	know that the famous shoes are on display in the American History
	museum in DC?  A foto of them has a page for itself in my "My
	first trip to USA" album.

    	drb

    re ;37
    
    Shameful!  Absolutely Shameful.   :>) 
    
    Did I draw the funny face correctly

    Tis one of a few ways.
    
    :-)  is one.
    
    :>   is another

    I heard the other day that the Power Rangers were taken off the air in
    some of the Netherland countries.  There were too many cases of
    youngsters killing toddlers in trying out what they see on TV.  Given
    how liberal some of these countries are, I was surprised to hear this.
    
    Mike

re Note 773.44 by FRETZ::HEISER:

>     Given
>     how liberal some of these countries are, I was surprised to hear this.

        Mike,

        Perhaps you've heard some of the tons of conservative
        propaganda in the media -- or from some pulpits -- but
        "liberal" does *not* equate to irresponsible, stupid,
        careless, wanton, licentious, satanic, humanistic, or <insert
        favorite pejorative term here> any more than "conservative"
        would equate to them.

        Regarding the example cited above and given some of the
        propaganda recited in this forum, a conservative would
        *expect* a "liberal" country to interfere in the private
        affairs of its citizens! :-{

        Bob

    But Bob, liberalism promotes fair share and does interfere with the
    private affairs of citizens!
    
    -Jack

>    I heard the other day that the Power Rangers were taken off the air in
>    some of the Netherland countries.  There were too many cases of
>    youngsters killing toddlers in trying out what they see on TV.  Given
>    how liberal some of these countries are, I was surprised to hear this.

There's only one Netherland country.

Power Rangers was taken off the air in some of the Nordic countries.

There had been one case of some youngsters killing a toddler acting out
what they had seen on TV.

They didn't want another case.

/john