Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

	I don't understand the question. How does one solidify their beliefs
	by looking at other beliefs? I'm not sure it's even a good idea to
	study other beliefs before ones own are solid. Confussion too often
	results otherwise.

			Alfred

re Note 310.1 by CVG::THOMPSON:

> 	I don't understand the question. How does one solidify their beliefs
> 	by looking at other beliefs? I'm not sure it's even a good idea to
> 	study other beliefs before ones own are solid. Confussion too often
> 	results otherwise.
  
        Alfred,

        I think that the problem results from the all-too-human
        tendency to "solidify" on one's beliefs not as a result of
        study and understanding but as a result of familiarity,
        societal pressure, tradition, prejudice, and just plain
        intellectual laziness.  Humans have a tendency to believe
        that what they believe is true, period.

        Certainly, we note that in the world of the physical
        sciences, for example, very intelligent and well-read people
        find it is easy to believe that a theory of physical
        interaction, e.g., the movement of the planets and the sun,
        is true -- until a better one come along.

        I am not suggesting that a "better one" than Christianity
        will come along.  Rather, I am suggesting that it is only the
        comparison and contrast of one's personal beliefs with other
        candidates that really solidifies one's beliefs.  An apparent
        solidification without such comparison is just as likely to
        be ossification as it is to be a fundamental conviction.

        Bob

    My personal feeling is that anyone who is ignorant about other
    groups/beliefs etc. is far to often apt to have a negative opinion
    of them. Think of how fundamentalist Christians used to refer to
    Roman Catholics as pagans, or Roman Catholics used to assume that
    Protestants were condemed to perdition. Or how many Christians saw
    none of the beauty and spiritual grace of Native American or
    other nonChristian religions and referred to them all as evil and
    witch craft.
    
    It can only add to understanding if we take the time to listen to
    and learn about those whose faith is different from ours.
    
    And if learning about other's faiths (if we aren't talking about
    some sort of cult like indoctrination) causes us to question our
    own, well, I think that is a healthy response, and can lead to
    spiritual and personal growth.
    
    Bonnie

What age level is the class, Dave?

I once co-taught a class of high school aged persons.  My co-teacher
was the associate pastor of the church.

When he talked about "other religions," he was talked about Mormons, Moonies,
Jehovah's Witnesses and such!  He labeled them "cults" and was not terribly
kind in what he said about them.

I didn't care much for his outlook.  He wove in a considerable portion of
subtle and subjective negativity, making it difficult to sift out the
his more objective observations.  Fortunately, not all the kids were
gullible enough to swallow it whole, nor were they vulnerable enough to
be infected by his contempt for those with whom he disagreed theologically.

I don't think it hurts to inquire into other religions; Judaism, Hinduism,
Islam, Buddhism and so on.  There are some important differences.  There are
some important commonalties, as well.

Richard

    RE: .4  Richard,
    
                      The class is ages 40 to 50.  My real question once
    your a Christian, is it proper to "look" at other beliefs and is it
    honest to do so?
    
    
    Dave

    I think it is very helpful to look at other beliefs, particularly if
    you wish to cultivate the qualities of wisdom and compassion.
    
    But I question the value of doing so *IF* the sole purpose is to simply 
    "solidify" one's own beliefs.   Is the strive to "solidify" 
    one's beliefs merely a drive for absolute security in ourselves and 
    the world at large?   I see the degree to which we endeavor to "solidify" 
    our beliefs as tending to equally off-set the development of faith. 
      
    For faith is cultivated from living through the questions of life, 
    the unknowns, the doubts encountered as our experiences continually
    span the full spectrum of human joy and suffering.  The desire for 
    solidification, as I see it, can easily wind up placing more value 
    on "the answers", and doesn't leave much, *if any*, room to honor 
    and value "the questions", which are the impetus for growth 
    toward God, imo.  
      
    Karen

    RE: .6  Karen,
    
                      Your right Kb....if that was the only reason then it
    wouldn't be honest.  Seeking truth....for an entire life...is the
    honest thing to do.  I also think that the reward for this kind of
    honesty is a closer walk with God.
    
    
    Dave

    There are two principles here:
    
    (1) The Christian faith as revealed by Jesus Christ is complete.
    There is nothing missing from it in order to be saved.  Jesus said
    "I am the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6) and commanded us to
    teach this throughout the world.
    
    (2) Knowledge of the world including the religions of the world is a
    positive thing.  There is good in other religions and their study leads
    us to better understanding of our Christian faith.

    
            I guess ya'll aare missing my point so let me try again.  Let
    me cite an example.
    
          
            The Church of Christ believes that a person can, after accepting
    Christ in their life, deny Christ and lose their salvation.  The
    Southern Baptists however believes that "once saved always saved".  Now
    I hope you would agree that this is an important question for the
    believer.  What does that person do?  What is involved in "losing" ones
    salvation?  Is it a question of God giving several kinds of salvation
    or does one of these two have it wrong?  These are valid questions and
    ones that have come up for me.  
    
    
             My contention is that the believer *MUST* continue looking for
    truth with God in prayer, searching ones own heart, and looking at
    other belief systems to be "open" to Gods "real" salvation.
    
    Dave

Note 310.9

>    What does that person do?  What is involved in "losing" ones
>    salvation?  Is it a question of God giving several kinds of salvation
>    or does one of these two have it wrong?  These are valid questions and
>    ones that have come up for me.  

Dave,

	I would say that one (or both) have it wrong.  Which one?  I don't
have the foggiest idea!  8-}

	I personally like John Wesley's view.  He daily re-dedicated his life
to God in Christ.

	I also like <Boy, will I get flack for this!> what Confuscius said:
"Why are you so concerned with the afterlife?  We aren't through with this
life yet!"

Peace,
Richard

    The doctrine of eternal security is a beautiful doctrine.
    Unfortunately, it results in abuses. Can that which is born of the
    Spirit die? There have been a lot of illusory births, though.
    	The problem is not God's ability to save but our willingness to
    accept Him. To say, I'm Saved, is always dangerous. However if we can
    say Jesus is my Saviour, we've said the same and more. Now the emphasis
    is on Jesus. What could we possibly place more confidence in?
    
    john
    	

    RE: .11  John,
    
                      I like your answer but my question now is where do we
    "get" this confidence?  Your seeming to say "in Jesus" and the
    statement that "Jesus is my saviour" so where does the Bible come in
    here?  IMHO, the Bible is only a guide directing us to God.  To say
    that the Bible is the final "word" of God it seems to me to be putting
    limits on God.  
    
    
    Dave

    
    Re.0
    
    Dave,
    
    Looking at other beliefs is precisely what should be happening.  At
    least then, if the people disagree with the other beliefs (assuming
    that they see no similarity between them and their own), at least they
    will not be speaking and condemning from a position of total ignorance,
    which is the most dangerous position of all.
    
    Of course this kind of education/exposure should be from an unbiased
    source as well.  It might be a good idea to welcome the equivalent of
    ministers in the other faiths to join in the discussion or present
    their own religion and relate it to Christianity.  Books written by
    people like Hal Lindsey or that other guy who is anti-New Age are
    totally slanted and will do nothing to further the cause of true,
    unbiased exchanges.  Additionally you will have someone there who is a
    real human being that can answer questions realtime.
    
    Cindy

    
    Marco Polo, in the movie, mentioned that the more he looked at the
    beliefs and religions of others, the more he understood his own.
    
    Cindy

    re  .12
    
    I am not a fundamentalist. The Bible certainly isn't the final word
    of God. I would compare it to a foundation. What gets added on should
    fit. People pile all kinds of tradition on it without even trying for a
    fit. Don't make it complicated. Study the life of Christ. Doesn't it
     inspire confidence? If I say I'm saved, there's not much for
    confidence. I can't "save" myself. The more I understand about the life
    of the Christ, the more a statement like Jesus is my Saviour means to
    me.
    	Idries Shah reports a study done in England about peoples beliefs.
    The study found that people claimed to believe most strongly things
    that were the most difficult to prove. Things that might be checked out
    about religion tended to be doubted. 
    	YOu can't prove there is a heaven in the after life, but you have a
    chance at finding out how prayer works.
    
    john