Conference napalm::musclecars

    
    
    	Just in case anyone was looking for a *MINT* '67 400 Firebird, I
    found one in a guy's barn about 15 miles south of me last weekend.
    Unfortunately, he knows what it's worth. But anyway, let me know if
    anyone's interested.
    
    	Dave

    What's he asking?

Well, while we are waiting, we can do some "what if" discussing around my Vega
project.  I am currently on the hunt for a 9" Ford posi rear end for to be used
in the Vega.  They are very hard to find around here (CXO).  I can find all the
non-posi rear ends I want.

Once I find one I'll need to have it narrowed and have the appropriate bracketry
welded on.  Herein lies my the decision I have to make.  As I see it, I can have
the rear end set up like the stock one (width, etc.) or I can go Pro Street 
(tubbed, 4 link or ladder bar suspension).

Do any of you have any experiences driving a "Pro Street" type of setup?  It 
looks neat but I don't know what it'd be like driving such a combo on the 
street.  This type of setup is also rather expensive so I'd have to save my
pennies for awhile longer too.

One of the reasons for wanting larger tires is that the largest tire that I can 
stuff under the Vega now is probably a 215-60 14/15.  With the horsepower that
I have on tap, will most likely lead to traction problems.

Any opinions?

Thanks,
Mark

    Hi,
    
    Check with "sommers brothers racing". They seem to have little
    difficulty finding 9" posi's... They have picked up 2 or 3 of
    them over the last few years. Also check in with them on ladder
    bar set ups. Eric just put ladder bars under his race car, and
    it performs beautifully, for a whole lot less than 4 link set ups.
    Tubbing a car is a lot of money, narrowing a rearend is also.
    I've heard quotes in the 3500 to 4500 range... Ladder bars and
    sticky tires should do the trick. A properly set up ladder
    will plant narrower tires well enough to stick and not have
    traction problems.
    	Eric is at CXCAD::SOMERS
    
    
    				Brian...

    
    I'm planning to have some work done to a "soft" spot on the frame of
    my '68 4-4-2 convertible this spring.  I have found a shop in
    Leominster that will do it for about $1000.
    
    He plans on removing the body from the chassis and replacing about a
    2 foot section with new iron.  Has anyone had similar experiences that
    could tell me if his price is *reasonable*?
    
    Also, any advice on where else to take it for an estimate?  Oh yeah,
    American Auto body is the shop I ended up with in the Fitchburg/Leom.
    area.  I watched them do a similar job on a late sixties Corvette and
    was pretty impressed at the process they used, although I probably
    wouldn't know a good process from a bad one....
    
    Tom

    
    
    	Re: .1
    
    	He wants about 9K but he'd probably take 7K if someone walked
    up with in in a briefcase.
    
    	Dave

re.4

I've got a line on a 9" out of a Lincoln.  I should be picking it up some time
this week.  Once I get it apart and figure out what the splining is, I'll also
be getting a posi for it.  It looks like that problem is solved.  I talked to
Mark down at Street Pros.  To narrow the 9" housing and axels it's $225.  To
weld on the stock brackets and make one up for the torque arm it runs about 
$140.  To do the sub frame, tubs, suspension, etc., he wants about $2k.  

I think that I probably just narrow it to stock Vega width for now and see
how it works out.  I should be able to fit an 8" tire up under it.  

I put the new front springs in this weekend and now I have a whopping 3.5 inches
of ground clearance (up from 1").  I think that taller front tires are in order.

Mark

    
    
    Re: .5,
    
    	If he is actually going to remove the body from the chassis to
    perform the repairs then place the body back onto the chassis the 
    1K is cheap to do the job. I would ask him what he would charge to
    steam the chassis and spray it in black enamel while the body is 
    off. It wouldn't add much to the cost and it would make the
    underside look real nice. Make sure that the body is properly
    re-shimmed upon replacement.
    
    				- A.J.

    I know this is no classic so I'm not real concerned about anything but
    function but...I've got a '79 Lemans wagon that needs a section of
    frame replaced in the right rear...it's about 3ft of frame that will be
    cut out and a "newer" section welded back in. It's gonna cost me $350
    for the entire job. There's no removal from the frame involved other
    than the bad section being removed from the body....$1000 sounds pretty
    good IF they really take the whole body off the car. If they are doing
    the same thing that's being done to mine...then it might be a little
    high.
    
     /tb/

    I own a 71 Cutlass S that I have owned since new.  It has 135K miles on
    it, spent most of its life in the south (very little rust).  How can I
    find out what it is worth, and how could I go about selling it??  Any
    advice would be welcome.
    
      Ted Workman
      DTN 225-7307
      TOLKIN::WORKMAN

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Note 2.36               Noter registration, who are you?                36 of 39
SALEM::FISHER_T "Kuwait:looking for a few good carp" 35 lines  16-APR-1991 11:03
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    Dave,
    
    790 HP?????? Sounds kind of excessive, particularly for 
    a streetable BIIIGGG Journal Poncho motor like the 455!  If I were
    you I would strongly consider my end goal.  While 790 may well
    be attainable, what kind of durability do you anticipate?  Are you
    prepared to shell out the money to maintain this beast?  How about
    the chassis?  Pony cars are not noted for hooking up (witness late
    model Mustang 5.0's with "only" 225 Net HP) so all your power may
    go up in smoke, or worse yet, shattered trannies, smoked clutches,
    broken axles, etc.  Sounds like you are getting more than you may
    have bargained for.  My Machinist made a good point:  There is
    a wide discrepancy between a good high performance street motor and
    a race motor.  For example, a true race motor typically runs looser
    valve to guide clearance than a street motor.  Reason?  Under RACE 
    conditions, the heat generated will cause thermal expansion of the
    stem, bring it into acceptable clearance with the guide.  Under light
    duty use, the clearance will be excessive, promoting oil consumption,
    etc.  Camming and porting are also key.  Skip made a good point a 
    while back about porting.  While a light porting and port matching may
    show decent power gains on the street, a full porting and polishing 
    usually proves its mettle at HIGH RPMS ONLY.  Around town the throttle
    response and low end will be spongy.  Ask anyone that owns a Square
    port Chevy.  TREMENDOUS top end, but an oval port may get the jump in
    most street conditions.   The camming you will need to achieve that
    kind of power might really kill streetability.  Are you prepared for
    a 2000 RPM idle, crappy mileage, no manifold vacuum (for power brakes)
    and generally MISERABLE streetability?
    
    In sum, there's a lot to consider.  It would be lousy to see you
    get stung on this.
    
    Tom 
                                        

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Note 2.37               Noter registration, who are you?                37 of 39
CUJO::BROWN "Dave Brown"                             27 lines  17-APR-1991 06:36
                             -< Final result - ? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    	What I am planning is a setup that is marginally streetable and not
    intended for every day driving. The heads that I have already had built
    are not a full port job, rather limited porting and limited polishing.
    The guy who made them told me the same things regarding streetability
    and down-right practicality. As far as the durability of the lower end,
    my builder has told me that the only bearing to use is Vandervell. The
    only way to make the engine last at that CR and expected performance.
    
    	The 790HP estimate may be a bit high, taking into account the
    altitude here (why I actually went with such a hi CR) and the things
    that will have to be done to attain 'marginal streetability'. 
    
    	The real performance gain is the cam. This guy has a pretty good
    record in turning outcams that have been computer designed and custom
    ground to meet a particular application. There again, when it comes
    time to spec the cam, we may well have to go with something relatively
    tame to attain streetability.
    
    	I know what you are saying. The final result may come in
    significantly below 790HP and it probably will. However whatever it
    ends up being, it will be driven infrequently.
    
    	Thanks for the input. I'm still in the recommendation phase.
    
    	Dave

          <<< CUJO::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MUSCLECARS.NOTE;1 >>>
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Note 2.39               Noter registration, who are you?                39 of 39
SALEM::FISHER_T "Kuwait:looking for a few good carp" 21 lines  17-APR-1991 07:19
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    Dave,
    
    As I mentioned, my primary interest is making sure you
    get what you pay for and are satisfied with the outcome.
    Several years back a friend (and a very mechanically gifted
    one at that) built a big block Chevy (427) powered Firebird of some
    early to mide seventies vintage (In fact, some of you might know him,
    his name is Mike Mears and used to work at New England speed in Boston)
    The motor was punched and stroked to somewhere in the 470+ cube range, 
    and ran square port heads, 12.0 compression, radical roller cam, and some 
    manhole sized Holley mechanical carb.  By all accounts the motor was 
    pushing in the 600 HP range, and based on a few rides in that beast I 
    don't doubt it.  Problem was, the M22 detonated, rear-ends blew, etc.  
    Ultimately he ended up running a Doug Nash tranny and Ford 9" to contain 
    the power.  Just these mods alone added almost $3,500 to his cost (which
    was well into the $15,000 range prior to the changes.  The car was
    barely streetable, noisy as hell, and generally awful to live with.
    He sold it a few months after completion at substantial capital loss.
    
    Tom

    
    
    	I'm the kind of guy to buy a 1000 watt stereo amplifier and play it
    at a nice low level. Knowing the potential is there satisfys me.
    
    	By no means do I intend (intentionally) to get into the tranny
    wrecking business :-)
    
    	We'll see....
    
    	Dave

   Has anyone fooled around with reverse cooling?  I read that the 
   new '92 ZR1 was going to use reverse cooling, thereby allowing a 
   60 degree advance in timing.  

   Also, does anyone have any practical experience with an MECA cooling
   system conversion?  This is the cooling system that uses a different 
   type of coolant, and does not require a pressurized system.  

   An article I read in Circle Track last year stated that using both 
   the MECA system and reverse cooling could result in bumping up C.R. 
   2-3 points without the fear of detonation.  

   I would be very interested in comments from anyone that may have
   used either of these ideas on a hi-performance engine.
                                                  
   Ken P.     

    
    	I have recently re-entered Musclecars back into my Notes Folder,
     I missed it. When I open the file and want to look at the New replies
     with a "next unseen" it tells me, "no new notes" and I know this not
     to be true. Are all my newly added topics and repies marked "Seen"
     for some reason ? Can I change this ?  Cars I know, Notes/VMS ?.?.?
    
    				Any help would be appreciated, Franko

    
    
    	Notes> Set Seen/Before=date
    
    	Where date is from which date you want to see the notes from. You
    could try 11-MAR-1991 to get all of them seeing as how that is when
    this particular conference was created.

    mod:  can we add olds parts and cars for sale to the topics?
    
    thanks,
    steve

    
    
    just got off the phone with the new owner of harley...
    
    all is lost...   :(
    
    dave

    mod:  i faxed the old directory to you.  if you didn't get it drop me
    an e-mail  
    
    steve kline@fvo
    

    
    
     Lets add BUICKS( G.S.,SKYLARKS,WILDCATS) to this notesfile. It used
    to be my favorite place to talk about my 66 Skylark.. With 401 motor
    transplant in progress..
    
     Thanks,
    
     Brian ... 

    Where does the term "Hot Rod" come from?
    
    This was asked of me this week-end and I'm not sure of the answer...
    
    (now, now...let's keep this clean!)
    
    /tb/

    "Hot" being the term as much as awsome,boss neat etc.
    "ROD" as in roadster.slang
    ergo HOT ROD.
                                    dave

    
    How about a war story note?  Might be fun.
    
    Tom

    
    Dave,
    
    I took the liberty of creating the GM X,B,A body topics for generalized
    discussions of the cars in these families.  I also added similar topics
    for Fomoco products (excluding Mustang/Cougar which already exists)   
    Perhaps you could rename note #68 to the GM F body note.  Sound reasonable?
                             
    Tom

    
    
    	re -1, thats fine but I'd suggest putting the popular body name at
    least in parenthes for those of us who haven't an idea what the letter
    codes correspond to.
    
    
    	Dave
    	

Gentlemen,

Here's a little rundown of my trip to Puerto Rico;

The island is literally Chevy
Heaven.  In order of commonality you will see;

A-bodies (Primarily Chevelle/Malibu's of 1966-72, plus 70-72 
Monte Carlos and Many El Caminos)  The 68-70 Chevelle/Malibus 
seem to be the most common, there is literally one on every
streetcorner.  Very few SS models, though most are two doors.

X-bodies The Nova is really common here, suprisingly, since NO VA
in Spanish translates to NO GO!  That doesn't seem to bother them
too much however.  The 70-74 Nova is most common, followed closely
by 65-67 Chevy II's and a few pre `65 models.   Again, few SS models
though mostly two doors.

B-bodies Not as common as the A/X bodies though still plentiful.  You
see a lot of 62-64 B-bodies (mostly Impalas and Bel-air 4 doors) and
numerous 67-68 Impalas.  A good percentage of these are SS models, though
I have yet to see any Big Block models.

F-Bodies Again, not as common as the A/X, but many first (67-69, especially
69) second (70-73) and third (74-81) generation models.  A fair number of
RS models as well, mostly small block motivated.  As in the US, you also
see a substantial number of Phony Z-28's running around!

As for other stuff, you will occasionally see a Vette, but not often.
GM has a *DOMINANT* share of the island marketplace followed by Ford
and Mopar a distant third.  Japanese cars however rule the island in total,
due to the way Puerto Rico calculates excise taxes.  They are based on
vehicle weight AND rated HP, so that all but rules out the Musclecar as well
as favoring the lighter Jap econoboxes.  However, even the Jap stuff gets
the hotrodding treatment, some actually look kinda neat. (sorry Gilly!)

I have been looking for salvage yards when I can, but they don't really exist
here as we know them in the US. Around here, when your car shits the bed,
you; 1) part it out 2) make a dog house/chicken coop out of it 3) Push the
rusting carcass into the deepest ravine you can find.  I have found a few, but
there was nothing much of interest there.  Rust is not too bad, and most
vehicles have good chrome and bright metal trim.  I have found a few 69 Cougars
but nothing that is for sale.  Bummer.   

Hope you enjoyed this news flash, 


Tom 
 

    19.62
    
     I've built a few small blocks in my time...here are two that did
    really well. It's been 15-20 years but I'll try to remember.
    
    302 c.i.
    
    327 block bored out .060
    283 crank, stock
    283 rods
    Jhans pistons 12.5/1 milled to 11.0/1 (approx)
    30/30 duntov cam (.447 x .447 solid lift) 292 duration? (I think this
    was it)
    194 heads stock
    Weiand single plane intake
    780 vacuum holley
    Appliance side exit headers
    Mallory dual point dist
    Autolite plugs
    Short housing alum powerglide with shift kit
    3.42 gears in non posi housing
    3400 pound '62 impala non SS
    
    
    406 c.i. (small block)
    
    * 400 small block bored .030
    * stock cast crank (3.75 stroke) releived for oil internal balanced 
    * 10.25/1 forged pistons balanced
      full floating wrist pins
    * stock rods drilled for oiling wrist pins, shot peened
    * solid lift cam isky .488 x .488 x 304 duration
    * weiand open plenum high rise intake match ported to heads
    * carter 725 cfm comp series carb (no longer made)
    * 2.02 slant plug heads 64 cc chamber ported by Gromms Comp Cylinder
      Heads. Screw in studs, guide plates, releived spring pockets.
      I don't remember the cast numbers but these are the new style
      heads with the accessory mountin holes up front (491??).
    * All components balanced to within 1/10 gram. (80 year old little ol
      man with nothing but time and equipment. Verified but two peole with 
      separate equipment)
    * Mallory dual point dist, modified.
    * Appliance side exit headers
    * stock rockers
    * Weiand valve covers, air cleaner
    * PVC closed system
    * Turbo 400 automatic with shift kit
    * 3.42 non posi
    * 3400 Lb '62 Imapal SS
    
    Both engine were assembled and spec'd by me. I never ran either through
    a timed quarter because the nearest track is well over 100 miles away.
    But I beat a lot of cars. Big block chevies always gave hell! Mopars
    were no problem. They both ran exceptionally well. I liked the 302
    better than the 406 because is sounded really good in the higher rpms.
    The 400 required less rpm to accomplish the same goals, and sounded
    like a big block. I still have both engines in pieces (disassembled).
    
    Bruce
    

    19.62
    
     I've built a few small blocks in my time...here are two that did
    really well. It's been 15-20 years but I'll try to remember.
    
    302 c.i.
    
    327 block bored out .060
    283 crank, stock
    283 rods
    Jhans pistons 12.5/1 milled to 11.0/1 (approx)
    30/30 duntov cam (.447 x .447 solid lift) 292 duration? (I think this
    was it)
    194 heads stock
    Weiand single plane intake
    780 vacuum holley
    Appliance side exit headers
    Mallory dual point dist
    Autolite plugs
    Short housing alum powerglide with shift kit
    3.42 gears in non posi housing
    3400 pound '62 impala non SS
    
    
    406 c.i. (small block)
    
    * 400 small block bored .030
    * stock cast crank (3.75 stroke) releived for oil internal balanced 
    * 10.25/1 forged pistons balanced
      full floating wrist pins
    * stock rods drilled for oiling wrist pins, shot peened
    * solid lift cam isky .488 x .488 x 304 duration
    * weiand open plenum high rise intake match ported to heads
    * carter 725 cfm comp series carb (no longer made)
    * 2.02 slant plug heads 64 cc chamber ported by Gromms Comp Cylinder
      Heads. Screw in studs, guide plates, releived spring pockets.
      I don't remember the cast numbers but these are the new style
      heads with the accessory mountin holes up front (491??).
    * All components balanced to within 1/10 gram. (80 year old little ol
      man with nothing but time and equipment. Verified but two peole with 
      separate equipment)
    * Mallory dual point dist, modified.
    * Appliance side exit headers
    * stock rockers
    * Weiand valve covers, air cleaner
    * PVC closed system
    * Turbo 400 automatic with shift kit
    * 3.42 non posi
    * 3400 Lb '62 Imapal SS
    
    Both engine were assembled and spec'd by me. I never ran either through
    a timed quarter because the nearest track is well over 100 miles away.
    But I beat a lot of cars. Big block chevies always gave hell! Mopars
    were no problem. They both ran exceptionally well. I liked the 302
    better than the 406 because is sounded really good in the higher rpms.
    The 400 required less rpm to accomplish the same goals, and sounded
    like a big block. I still have both engines in pieces (disassembled).
    
    Bruce
    

Regarding 4.28 and 19.62

>    302 c.i.
    
>    327 block bored out .060

	Try a 350 4-Bolt Main Block. Is same bore as 327, but more bottom end
	strength. I also recommend .030" over instead of .060". Sometimes .060"
	engines experience cooling problems. This will also make your life
	more flexible should your motor develop cylinder wall scoring or
	taper.

>    283 crank, stock

	Try 302 Crank. It has the same stroke as 283, but is a large journal
	crank. Use Clevite 77 bearings.

>    283 rods
 
	302 Z28 Rods (or equivalent) are the ticket. Should have floating 
	wrist pins. Again, use Clevite 77 bearings.

>   Jhans pistons 12.5/1 milled to 11.0/1 (approx)
 
	Why buy 12.5/1 pistons and spend all that money to mill them?  If this
	is a strip machine or an occasional street machine I recommend 12.5/1
	TRW forged pistons (you will need to always run race gas). If we are 
	talking street I recommend 11/1 TRW forged piston.

>   30/30 duntov cam (.447 x .447 solid lift) 292 duration? (I think this
    was it)

	Above cam is similar to to the factory cam in a 327 CI 375 HP Vette
	engine. If you want something more radical, use a Crane solid cam with
	540 lift, 320 duration. Also use a double roller timing chain or
	gear drive with double idlers. Also use the appropriate valve spring
	kit for the cam.

>    194 heads stock
 
	In order of desirability: 202 turbo canted plug round port, 202 canted
	plug square port, 202 straight plug square port, 194 square port with
	push rod guide plates. For best performance, heads should be CCed,
	ported and polished.

>   Weiand single plane intake
 
	Edelbrock Scorpion manifold.

>   780 vacuum holley
 
	Strip: Holly 750 double pumper, Street: Holly 780 with vacuum
	secondaries.  Use high pressure electric fuel pump.

>   Appliance side exit headers

	Hooker, Cyclone or Black Jack equal length tuned tube headers.

>    Mallory dual point dist
 
	MSD electronic ignition. Mallory is mechanical and hard to keep  
	dwell set.  Magnetos put to much stress on cam shaft.

>    Autolite plugs

	Autolite plugs are the best, but they are longer than other brands. 
	This sometimes creates clearance problems when working around the
	headers.  If so use AC plugs. Champion plugs tend to foul out easily.

>    Short housing alum powerglide with shift kit

	Turbo 400 auto with shift kit or Muncie M21 or M22 4-speed.

>    3.42 gears in non posi housing
 
	4:10 Limited Slip 12 bolt (Schiffer Gears)


	Roller rocker arms are a good investment. There are several companies
	that offer a life time warranty at a reasonable price (as compared
	to CRANE). Do not use increased rocker ratios, they are harder on
	the engine and often create clearance problems. Use Mollie Steel
	push rods.

	If using a 4-speed, use Schiffer clutch and pressure plate, Hurst
	linkage and Lakewood 2 piece scatter shield.

	Use extra capacity oil pan and high volume oil pump.

	You might consider electric fans on the radiator instead of water
	pump fan.

	The above applies to a 350 as well.  Do not use 400 small block. The
	larger bore only allows steam holes between cylinders instead of the
	traditional water jacket which sometimes creates heat problems.

Good luck,

Chuck

	At the risk of being drummed out of the conference for 
    discussing a non-USA product, here's a REAL big block for sale.
    It works out to about 2200 cubic inches.
    
    					John
    
               <<< VMSZOO::WORK2$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FLYING.NOTE;1 >>>
                             -< General Aviation >-
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Note 4135.0                   Sale of the century!                     3 replies
ODDONE::BOARDMAN_K "I sponge no more than I drink"    6 lines  19-MAR-1992 04:53
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Anyone want to buy a 36 litre V12 Rolls Royce Griffin engine?
    1000 pounds is the asking price.  Buyer collects from Popham
    airfield, UK ;-)
    
    				Cheers...Keith

    ....let's see....if I take the back seat out of the station wagon ...
    hhmmmmmmm...maybe we could get the FF to do some minor welding here 'n
    there...yeah! That's the ticket!
    
    /tb/

    Ah, the sounds of E.J.Potter.... Mr. 57 Plymouth with an Allison in the 
    passenger seat. Talk about something that would melt slicks.
    
    
    The Mad Weldor....Jim
    
    you buy it and I'll help install it in your wagon of choice.

    
    It occurred to me this morning.  You know you need immediate
    psychiatric attention if, after seeing a truckload of squashed 
    cars headed for the recycler, you:
    
    a) Actually try to *identify* at least one of the squashed hulks
    b) Break out in a sweat at the thought that one of those hulks may
       have been your long sought after dream car.
    c) Seriously consider asking the truck driver where his load originated 
       so you can picket the salvage yard.
    
    Clearly, spring fever at work.....  8^)
                                  
    
    Tom 

    Tom, they probably came from Weber's. You remember how much vintage iron 
    they crushed last year. They're only in it for the core value.
    
    Chris

    re-1,2
    Kind'a makes you want to cry doesn't it? I know I do when I visit my
    brother in Fla.
    
    
    TMW...Jim

    AAARRRGGGHHHH!!! I needed that bumper/trim/fender/interior etc etc.
                                                              John M.
    

    
    
    Does anybody have a train schedule for the North Station commuter rail?
    
    I need to know the morning train times for the acton/littleton line
    and how to get to the Littleton station. I know how to get to the
    Acton one.
    
    		thanks  Al

>    I need to know the morning train times for the acton/littleton line
>    and how to get to the Littleton station. I know how to get to the
>    Acton one.

Don't have a current schedule but the "station" is on Foster Street down 
below the DEC Foster Street facilities.  It's right there at the grade 
crossing.  No platform, just a make-shift parking area.

Get off I-495 at route 2 WEST.  Get off 2 at Taylor Street and go over 2 
and I-495.  Foster street is up the hill on the left.

My wife used to take the train into Boston every day and it runs sort of on 
a once-every-half-hour basis between 6 and 7:30 ish between Gardner and 
Boston.  After that it only goes as far as Acton until the evening commuter 
rush hour schedule.

    The schedule is posted at the Littleton stop...at least it was still
    there a few weeks ago :-)
    
    /tb/
    

      In the Nov. issue of Hot Rod, in the SUMMIT advertisement section,
    they have a picture of a '70 Camaro from Gardner,Ma.This car used to be
    parked at the SPEEDY station with a FOR SALE sign on it a lot.It was
    bright yellow with mulicolored stripes.In the ad the owner thanks
    SUMMIT for helping with his first ground-up restoration.I just thought
    it was interesting seeing this car in HOT ROD.
    
                                          Rich

     > '70 Camaro from Gardner,Ma.
    
        Well, either this guy couldn't sell it and can't afford a winter
    beater and doesn't care to much about his resto job or he sold it
    to someone that doesn't care to much for restored Camaros because I
    saw it driving around last Saturday covered with slush and salt.
    I will never understand why someone would do this. 8^(
    
                                          Rich
                                           
    

    i'm looking at, and thinking about buying, a 'lil red express truck...
    any comments or opinions on them?  
    
    /g

    Re: -1
    
    Be prepared to pay some $$. From what I've read, they are becoming
    quite collectable. Even ones that need some work are expensive. 
    
    /steve

    uh-oh, here's something I can try to talk about....
    
    I have a '78 Li'l Red.  There were 2500 made.  '78 has round headlites
    and '79 has square.  '78 has NO catalytic converters because of fed
    6,000 lbs gvw cut-off.  '79 has cats because of new fed 8,400 lb gvw
    cut-off.
    
    basically the package is 360HP (205 BHP), carter thermoquad, cast iron
    headers, dual exhaust, 3.55 gears, chrome, decals, guages, oak bed, oak
    trim, stacks, canyon red paint, mags, L60 front/rear tires, and more.
    
    send me mail if you need more info and I'll try to find some time to
    answer...Bill

    
    There is a 'Lil Red Express truck for sale on the corner near our
    office. I have heard that it has a 440 Six Pack, motor work, and a
    mount for a blue bottle in the back. 
    
    don b
    

    
    Speaking of hot trucks, I followed a new Ford F-150 Lightning for 
    a few miles on 495 the other day.  Black.  Really looked nice, and 
    judging by the way the driver dove into the Lowell Connector offramp
    the thing handles as advertised.  Very nice looking vehicle.
    
    Oh, by the way, I also (the same day) saw a delivery truck with two `93
    Mustang Cobras.  Good looking in their shiny red paint.
    
    Tom

    The Lighting is quite a truck..I saw the final mule when working with
    Ford Light Truck a while back, and they promised they would let me know
    when one was in our area..Back in I believe Jan I got a call from the
    folks in Dearborn who called the local Ford dealer..Went down and they
    had a test drive all set up for me..At that time it was just going 
    around more as a selected show piece and was not yet for sale..Couple
    of things were real interesting..It had a full SVO 351, 17" special wheels 
    and rubber,real headers with full 2 1/2" pipe's and a whole lot more..It
    was quite a treat to drive..
    
    Jim

    Tom's note caused me to remember a few things from my Ford efforts that
    I was going to mention here but forgot..I also saw the new generation
    Aerostar vans due out in 94 1/2..They are quite nice but the item of
    interest is the paint..The full working units were done in an
    irridesent (sp.?) paint..On one color if you looked at it in the shade
    it was royal blue but as sun hit it the color changed to silver, the
    other was a burgundy which changed to gold in sunlight..Interesting
    paint but I would immagine touch up would be a bear.
     They also had a Ranger splash (a new step side small truck) with the cobra
    302 (they said 275 HP+) in it..It was lowered, 16" wheels etc..Very nice 
    looking..Perhaps Ford will decide to go after the Cyclone/Typhoon ..
    
    Jim

Hi,
Has anyone had any experiences with the rocker arm adjusting nuts that use an
allen head plug as the locking mechanism?  I installed a Mr. Gasket brand set
over the weekend, and am concerned about the plugs loosening.
Matt

    
    Hello......Hello????.......HELLO?????
    
    Is there anyone out there?  At all??  
    Eric Goehl?
    Marco Ciaffi?
    Bruce Augenstein?
    Skip Readio?
    Chris Roche?
    Bob Lamothe?
    John Manuele?
    Walter Fleury?
    Mark Forbes?
    Eric Somers?
    Brian Fraser?
    
    I mean, here it is summertime and this file is dead.
    
    Any drag racing going on?
    Has Bruce got his new LT1?
    Is Eric in the 10's?
    
    Come on guys, give me something to read!
    
    8^(

    Tom,
    	I am here I have sent you a couple of VAXMails over the last couple
    of weeks and I haven't heard from you have you been getting them?  I
    went to see John Manuele with the Torino a couple of weeks ago and it
    started raining as soon as I got down there and my windshield wipers
    don't work but we still got a good ride in anyway becuase the roads
    weren't real wet at first anway let me know if you got my messages.
    				Walter Fleury
    

    Tom,
    	BTW I am going to the cruise night tommorrow night at BK near the
    MKO facility here.  If you or anyone else out here in musclecar land is
    interested in going come on down it is usually a very active cruise
    night with quite a few cars.
    				Walter Fleury
    

Q4, wk6...

Chris is in his cube ripping his hair out right now. The norm 
here in NIO these days....

daryll

    Tom,
    
     Some of us have revenue producing jobs that don't allow much terminal
    time during the end of qtr/year.
    
    Chris

I watch this file....I talk to Eric...I'm real busy...I travel a lot....
The Goose still runs great...needs brakes....don't have time to put the stall
converter in so I can run in the 14's :-)

Other than that everything's just the same as always...
I'll run anytime I have the time

/tb/

I'm here.

Work in FS Logistics, now.  Busy'rn a one arm'd paper hanger.

The hemi's back together.  I de-tuned it *SUBSTANTIALLY*. Took it out last 
Friday.  Updated the inspection sticker on Monday.  Didn't notice it had 
expired last November.

I wiped out 2 roller tappets last summer and they took the camshaft with 
them.  Too much valve spring pressure from the last valve job's new set of 
springs.

Dropped 33 lbs on the installed pressure and now the valve float starts 
@4,800 rpm instead of around 7,000 rpm.  ... but I can drive it for a few 
years on the street and put another 140,000 miles on it w/o worrying about 
pulling it down again.  Even the valve guides should last a lot longer.

The torque peak is well below 3,000 and that's where I operate most so I'm 
real happy with what I have now.  If I hadn't broken two or three of the 
original inner valve springs, I'd have never put those new ones in there 
in '86.

I'm headed for New Brunswick, PEI, and Nova Scotia next week in the '48.

Next Friday I'll be taking the hemi up to Newmarket, Ontario (Toronto area) 
for the Canadian Street Rod Nationals (CANATS) and then we're headed down 
to Columbus, Ohio for the US Nats.

so............  I'll be away for two weeks.


I need a vacation again.  I got back from Australia only to find myself on 
the TFSO list.

skip

Hi,
Still hanging in... Havn't spent much time muscle caring lately.
The plastic car is in kit form waiting for time and money. Latest
project is a "muscle truck". My son and I are putting together a
55 ford pickup. Basicly we got it as a drive trainless roller.
We built a 302 and C4 for it and have the truck almost ready to 
start.
	I've been racing on 2 wheels this season. A few of my
exploits are chronicled in the "Drag Racing" notes file.
Currently second in points for the street bike class. Red lights
in the last two events knocked me out of first.

More later...

				Brian...

    	In reply to .58 what was the car that won the HEMI class becuase I
    have a friend of mine (The guy I bought my car off of in fact) that
    took first place in a HEMI class in a show up in Canada a few weeks
    ago.  He has a 1966 Belvedere I think it is a convertable I haven't
    seen it yet because it was in his garage at the very back of the three
    deep stall when I went to see him.  He did tell me he took first place
    in the HEMI class in a show up in Canada though.  He is a skinny guy
    and he originally comes from Canada so he talks with a heavy French
    accent.  If only I could get my Torino to look nice enough to place in
    shows like that.  I still show it anyway but it does need some work.
    				Walter Fleury
    

I'm still here too.  I've just been practicing the fine art of read-only noting.

Nothing new with the Vega since the last time at the strip.  I did get bored 
last week and take it for a little spin around the neighborhood (headers still
uncapped).  It gets alot of looks that way.  :-) 

I need to find .06 seconds so that I can have a "13 second" car (in the rarified
air of Colorado).  Maybe a set of slicks would do the trick.  ...or, perhaps a 
Pro-Jection unit.

Speaking of Pro-Jection, I have a question.  I have been trying to get through
to Holley for a month.  The line is ALWAYS busy.  The Pro-Jection 4 is good for
350+ cid and 300+ hp.  My question is that I have "only" 331 cid and over 300 
horsepower (418 at sea level and about 320 at the strip elevation).  Would a 
Pro-Jection 4 work ok on my engine even though it is 19 cid below the advertised 
minimum?  Do you guys have any idea?  I know that torque production would be up 
with fuel injection but I do not want to loose any horsepower.  I am afraid that 
the 2 hole would not provide the fuel flow or good mixture distribution that I
need at 6300 rpm.

Ramble, ramble, ramble...

The Plastic Bullet was left just sitting in the lot yesterday, which seemed like
an ignominious end for such a stalwart, long-lived runner. We said our goodbyes
after locking it up for the final time, and I admit to turning back a couple of
times with a little lump in the throat before entering the showroom. I have
never had a car as long as I've owned that one, nor gotten as much enjoyment
over the years with any other vehicle. The only rival it has for "best ever"
status is the '64 GTO I bought new in May of that year.

I feel better now, though, because the Swamp Thing (so named for it's very dark
metallic green paint) feels like it's gonna be a runner. It's pretty much
identical to the Bullet, while being different in every way. Mostly, it's eight
years of refinement within the same body/chassis combination that impresses me,
but, it's still a little rude and crude, with that V8 rumble to it.

A Vette is a Vette is a Vette. :-)

After a semi reasonable break in, I'm gonna be lookin' for 13.6s out of the box.

Talk is cheap, though. Film at 11, as they say.

Bruce

    
    I figure a status is due given I started this ball rolling...
    
    The Cougar is safely tucked in my new two car garage, which came
    free with the house we just bought...Actually the house came free
    with the garage I just bought (from my perspective anyway 8^))
    
    Last weekend I attempted to remove the engine and trans in order to
    properly rebuild the front end, and fix a bunch of little stuff on the
    engine I'm not happy with.  Sadly, I realized that pulling a big block
    out of a Pony car chassis aint easy!  It's now almost ready to pull but
    I need 2 extra sets of hands to jockey it out.... believe me, jockey
    is the operative word here.  There is literally a fraction of an inch
    of clearance between the shock towers and the exhaust manifolds, 
    substantially complicated by the close proximity of the master
    cylinder, brake booster and steering box to the motor.
    
    It'll likely be a couple of weeks until my good revenue producing, Q4
    overworked buddy can make it down to help.
    
    Once the motor's out, it goes back to the machinist for a balancing,
    exhaust manifold planing, and a reassembly.  
    
    Sometime this summer the body goes for a paint stripping and a badly
    needed painting.
    
    Tom
    

    Tom,
    	Even in my car which was considered a Mid-Size in it's day (the
    land ark) I only have fractions on each side of the exhaust manifolds
    between them and the shock towers.  I don't know which motor is
    physically bigger the 428 or the 429 but that may be a difference there
    if the 429 is bigger.  It is funny because the passenger compartment in
    my Torino is fairly small but the car is really long.  the rest is all
    engine and trunk, you could probably fit two people and a keg of beer
    in the trunk!.  Anyway time to get back to work.
    				Walter Fleury
    

On the Holley Projection question, they'd be recommending engine sizes and 
power levels for a rough estimate of the minimum and maximum air consumption
by they engine.  Thier system will make an estimate of the mass of the air,
and add an appropriate amount of gasoline via the injectors.  That set up will
only vary so much, so if the engine uses too little air at idle, the mixture 
will be rich.  If it uses too much air for the system to handle, it will run
lean at high RPM.  In your case, you can raise the idle speed if you find it
running too rich, I'd guess.
Matt

    I'm still here. I'm also still working 2nd shift, so there is not much
    going on with Project Torino. I start the 429 once a week just to keep
    it happy, and give me a little boost. The IROC is getting a new ring
    and pinion next week, the rear end only lasted 91,000 miles.
    Fortunately I was given a rear out of a totaled 86 with 18,000 miles on
    it. The good rear is a non-posi and has drum brakes but mine is a posi
    with disks, so its going to an expert for a parts swap. This way I keep
    the posi and disks intact.
                                                               John M.
    

    Mark, fuel injection doesn't care much about engine size. It takes "x"
    lbs of fuel per hour to make a certain amount of horsepower. It doesn't
    matter if you're making 350 hp with a blown 4-banger, or a mild big
    block. The fuel requirements at WOT will be about the same. There will
    be some variations depending on the efficiency of the engine, but
    injector size still relates pretty closely to horsepower.
    
    The only bad thing that I've heard about the Pro-Jection units is that
    the fuel pumps don't last long. I've talked to several Jeep owners that
    were running it, and they all had that one complaint. Other than that,
    they were pretty happy with it. (Fuel injection is great on an off-road
    vehicle. Carb bowls don't like to be bounced and/or operated at steep
    angles.)
    
    Harry
    

Ok, thanks for the Pro-Jection thoughts guys.  I think that the output from my 
dyno runs have fuel consumption information on them.  I'll take a look at them 
and then see if I can find out what the maximum amount of fuel is that the 
different Pro-Jection systems can deliver.

Mark

	Sooo, whens the next street weenie night at Epping??  I gotta see/take a ride 
in the new "Swamp Thing".  How's number 1 son's Vortech  setup?? 
 
	Hmmmm...if the goose is getting a converter he'll likely
be beating me now:-(( Hello,... TCI...  how much for that AOD Converter...)

	Eric...where are are you?  I've parked next to you a few times when
I've been to the mill but never had a chance to talk ...12's???
	
	Has "Mad Marco's Nitrous Burning GTI Mustang Eater" really retired for
good from drag racing??

Rich

No 12's.  I can run 13.1's effortlessly, and 13.0's if I concentrate, but the
12.9XX has eluded me.  I figure I've made 30-40 runs with slicks, and the last
10 ranged 13.04 to 13.19 seconds.  You'd think by fluke or accident I'd get a
!@#!@#$%!#$%^#!@$!%!#@$%!@#$% 12.9X second timeslip.  No such luck!

I didn't think it was going to be so difficult.  Just goes to show that talk 
is cheap; always was, always will be.  

On the positive side, I do drive the car everyday.  It runs good, but still
its more "choppy"  then I'd like at rpms under 2000.  I passed the emission
test 2 weeks ago.  It was close though.  Carbon monoxide was 0.0% (1.2% limit),
and HC was 210 ppm (limit 220).  This was at a 775 rpm idle, in full race
trim sans slicks.  The idle is rough, so I guess I should expect lousy 
hydrocarbons; but still, I was a little dissappointed.  

I haven't thrown a single successful powershift this whole year.  Partly
driver, partly transmission.  I'm shifting against the factory 6400 rev limit
and finishing the quarter in 3rd, yes 3rd, gear at 6000-6200 rpms :-).  
Launches start at 5500 with rapid but smooth clutch engagement and WOT on the
last yellow light.  60 foot times have been 1.83 to 1.87 seconds.  I still find
it amazing the those little 8.5" treads gave grip so hard.  Every street
weenie owes it to himself to try slicks at some point.  

Rest assured that I will get 12 second timeslip.  I have more up my sleeve
without violating emmisions - I ain't done yet.

Eric (12's or bust) Goehl

    Well, the time has finally come. The ThunderTruck(tm) is running quite
    well and terrorizing Houston drivers by the dozens. Wednesday, I'm
    heading for Colorado for a week of 4-wheelin'. But before I head for
    the mountains, I'll be stopping in Colorado Springs to meet up with
    some of the folks from the 4WD and RV notesfiles. I thought I'd invite
    the Colorado based Musclecar folks to join us for dinner. We'll be
    meeting at 6 pm Friday, July 30th at the Red Robin Restaurant right
    next to the Citadel Mall at Platte and Academy. Come on down!
    
    Look for the ugliest 4WD in the parking lot, that'll be mine! :-)
    Only the exhaust note gives away what lurks under the hood...
    
    If you're going to join us, please let Judy Kilgore know asap so she
    can make sure we have enough seats.. She can be reached at
    GENRAL::KILGORE at CXO. 
    
    Harry
    

Just in case anyone ever wants to know about Projection...

A few notes back in this string, I asked if anyone knew if a Holley ProJection 4
would work ok on my undersized 331 (as opposed to a 350).  I have no defininte
answers but, I did find out that the ProJection 2 maxes out at a fuel delivery 
rate of 160 pounds of fuel per hour.  According to the dyno info, my engine
peaks out at a fuel usage rate of 157 pounds per hour.

Still researching...

    
    I believe I've been to heaven and back.  Friday night Chris Roche and
    I made a trip "up north" to visit a fellow known for his Ford 
    performance parts business.  My mission was to trade my spare CJ
    heads for a good aluminum dual plane 428 "Police Interceptor" intake.
    Mission accomplished, but trades of such commonplace parts pale in
    comparison to what we saw at this fellow's shop;
    
    o About 20 Boss 429 Heads
    o About 20 427 SOHC heads
    o Numerous 427 Tunnel port motors
    o Numerous Boss 302 and Boss 351 motors
    o About 10 pairs of Gurney/Weslake Small Block heads
    o Several pairs of 302 Tunnel port heads
    o 4 Raw casting 494 Aluminum Can-am blocks
    o *800* NOS 427 tunnel port valves
    o Cranks of every description, including a few raw forgings
      intended for the 494 Can-ams
    o Aluminum Ford intakes of every description
    o Numerous Hilborn and Algon injection set-ups, all *NEW*
    o *Many* one-off Holman-Moody experimental parts
    o And, so many NOS H/P Ford production parts we just couldn't
      count them all.....
    
    About the most run-of-the-mill parts we saw were stacks of 428CJ, and
    429CJ heads.  Maybe it's just a matter of perspective, but I consider
    these to be pretty trick.  To this guy, it's just, and I quote:
    
    (With a mild note of disdain) "Heavy old iron stuff"
    
                                                    
    Ford Nirvana -- for sure!!!!!!!
    
    Still shaking our collective heads in disbelief.
    
    Tom
                                                   

    
    
    
    	I brought the Ranchero GT up to a "All Ford" show this Sunday
    	in an attemt to market it.  I've never been a "Show" type person
    	for the sake of attempting to win a prize, first of all because I
    	never had anything detailed enough to show, secondly because I
    	feel no matter what anyone has, someone has outdone them.  Well, 
    	this weekend was a little different.
    
    
    	Anyone who has seen my rig knows it's no piece of sh*t.  I bought
    	it in Tennesse in March and it has a mint new coat of paint.  The
    	interior is not perfect, but close, and I haven't ever detailed the
    	engine compartment, never had a reason to, has factory A/C.
    
    	There was one other Ranchero there, a '66.  Nice, original, V8
    	std. on floor, buckets.  There was also a 50'ish truck, mint, off
    	from resto, and a *brand new* Ranger styleside, stock.  Three
    	trophies, you got it, the Ranger got 3rd.  I should have guessed
    	it when the judge told me "Even though I told him to come, I had
    	to take off points because his engine compartment was plain."
    
    	What I want to know is, is this common?  Personally I think it
    	sucks but I'm no veteran at this.  What do you think?
    
    	/andy	
    

    
      Yes, it is NOT FAIR.  I went to a show in BellingHam Mass.  Put
    on by the Blue Magic Perormers.  There were 5 stangs there...
    
     mine, a 66 coupe (rat box), 67 and 68 coupes, 68 was nice, 67 had rust
    all over the engine.  At 12:30 p.m.  The club let this guy pull in with
    his 1991 Mustang 5.0L.  Lifted the hood....open the doors, and let the 
    convertable down...
    
       When it was trophy time, my fiance ( back then ) told me that 
       I should not worry, 1st place is MINE.  When it came down to 
    calling 1st place, they mentioned my name....as I began to walk
    up to grab the trophy, they said "
    
       Sorry, our mistake....they called the other guy with the 1991 stang,
    and left me with 2nd Place. !!!  I was Bull POOPED !!!!   :-}
    
      When I got the trophy I asked to say a few words ...
    
      " It is not fair to have a 30 year old car compete with a new
    vehicle.."  
    
    At shows it is MY understanding to have Pre '73 cars,
    and some shows have a class for 1973- Present.  having my CLUB jacket
    on I was polite...didn't make a scene, But everyone Clapped after
    talking into the micro-phone ....
    
      I DO NOT go to shows where there are New vehicles competing with 
    old classics....and a Car CLUB that allows such a situation I
    would NEVER join, and they are Ideally Not Classic Enthusiasts BUT
    money HUNGRY for entrance Fee's.
    
      As far as BLUE MAGIC PERFORMER people out there in Milford/Bellingham
    Land....I will NOT ever Support Blue Magic PUFFS nor will my Club...
    
    /Bob
    
    
    
       

It's pretty simple.  CAR SHOWS SUCK!  There's no other phrase that better 
defines a car show.  Indoor shows are even worse.

You have to look at the sponsoring organization.  If they're a street rod 
club, there probably won't be *any* trophies.  Everyone will come and enjoy 
their afternoon of socializing and will go home happy.  Maybe, slightly 
inebriated, but not po'd at someone.

If they're put on by a club dedicated to a specific type of car, you're 
going to find some pretty impartial judging... more so than if the club is 
a generic membership.

i.e. Early Ford V-8 Club of America (flathead powered vehicles)
     '55 - '56 - '57 Chevy club
     most Corvette clubs.
     most "true" muscle car clubs.
     etc.

"car clubs", on the other hand, tend to let anything and everything compete 
with little regard for "classes".  These clubs still do a pretty good job 
of breaking down the classes, however, they only do a good job of with the 
classes that the members can relate to.  If there aren't a lot of street 
rodders but there's a Mustang or Corvette freak on the committee, there'll 
only be one street rod class but seven different Mustang or Corvette 
classes.

If, on the other end of the scale, it is a civic organization, the pretty 
cars with all the bunnies, bears, goats, ducks, "Bill-the-cats, Tasmanian 
devils, etc piled in the seats, on the radiator, in the rear window, etc 
will walk away with the trophies.  A variety of signs, stanchions that 
encroach on neighboring vehicle's turf, and his & hers clothing seem to 
impress the judges.  Similarly, fake registration tags like "Pam's 
Dreamboat", "Lil's Pride", "Fred's Queen", bowl the judges over.

Many national meets have gone to a "top 20 overall" format and some even 
restrict this award to "no trailers" category.  (Although this is a bit 
tough to police when 12,000 cars show up)  To get around this, they add 
another category called Pro's pick where all the high-buck trailer queens 
compete.

If you're a trophy-hound, expect to have someone screw up your chances to 
"take home the gold".  It'll be the brother-in-law of the mayor, the guy 
who donated the biggest door prize, and *always* the biggest cry-baby.  
When it comes to spectator judging, it'll be the vehicle closest to what 
they say on the TV ads the night before (i.e. it'll be the newest car 
there)

If you drove your car to the meet, forget even being *considered* by the 
judges.  You had best acquire a trailer, preferably a tandem axle affair.  
An enclosed trailer with a massive winch (so you don't have to, God forbid, 
*START UP* your motor and ruin the paint on the exhaust manifolds and the 
intake manifold exhaust crossover passage) and a workbench, and a 
refrigerator, and skylights, and air conditioning, and.....

The bigger the trailer, the more trophies you deserve.

- - - - - - - - - -

If a cruise night offers trophies, I write them off.  If the show is 
sponsored by a civic organization, I look for another event that's 
sponsored by an antique or a street rod club even if it's smaller.  These 
events tend to promote the socializing more than the trophies.

Who ever went to a picnic to get a trophy?  A summer automotive event 
should be more like a picnic.  Give me a free hamburg or hot dog and a beer 
for my admission fee.  Park the cars so I can get a few nice photos to take 
home with me and assemble into a magazine article.  Don't insult my 
intelligence by "rewarding " me with a trophy for my faded-paintwork, 
hemi-powered, grungy hot rod just because I have a press badge.  I'm there 
to have a good time, not collect another trophy for the yard sale.

If I wanted to win a trophy, I'd clean the car and put it in the World Of 
Wheels show in January.

    
    Well put Skip.
    
    Bob,
    
    You restored the car (I think) because you love cars
    If you don't win first prize, do you love the car less?
    In fact, aren't trophies kind of secondary to the reason
    you go to shows in the first place?  
    
    Maybe it's just me, but trophies don't mean squat.  
    
    Andy,
    
    About the Ranchero, winning a trophy won't enhance the market
    appeal.  This is a specialty car that will attract a *VERY* narrow
    range of buyer;  1) Ford people 2) Ford people who are also Ranchero
    people.  Many folks find the El Camino's/Ranchero's ugly/impractical
    so the right buyer may be hard to find.  Is the thing in good shape?
    Original drivetrain?  Right paint color, interior color?  
    
    The fanatics who go in for such a unique vehicle will certainly be
    knowledgeable about what's correct and what's not.
    
    Best bet?  Try Hemmings.
    Tom
    

    
    
    Skip, What he said.
    
    Tom,
    
    I know that it won't enhance the value nor would I try to use it as
    a selling point.  The point here is that a brand new stock vehicle
    was chosen over a 21 year old rust free classic in excellent shape.
    I swore I'd never get into the show scene for that purpose, but when 
    I looked around and it appeared that I may win, well, I wanted to!  
    It would have been *fair*, which does not seem to matter in this case.
    
    It *did* piss me off.  Anyone with a father to co-sign could have done
    what this kid did, plus his buddy was judging.  I would have felt stupid
    accepting a trophy for driving a brand new vehicle to a car show. 
    
    I went to a car show in Ashburnham (?) about a month ago.  There was
    tons of food, a disk jockey accepting requests, winners picked by the
    attendees, a good time.  It was cool, and a fun day.  This one had
    hamburgs for a dollar, hot dogs for 75 cents, instant "Sweet Life"
    coffee for 50 cents, and donut holes 2/$100.  No music, no entertainment
    or P.A..  I should have figured, hindsight is 20/20.  Anyway the Ranchero
    is sold, they are picking it up tonight, not that it matters.
    
    From what I understand this is common.  Kind of takes away from the
    true meaning of *Winning*, huh?
    
    /ab
    
    
    

    
    Tom,
    
    Yes I restored the car, and not than I am a trophy hunter fanatic...
    I have had my share of trophies, I like trophies....It makes me feel
    good about the Hard Work I put into the car, not to mention the time
    and Money invested.
    
     I have or try to have a good time at the shows, clean the car
    up...then leave and take pitcures or video.  However, I WILL
    not go to any Show where I have to compete with a New vehicle...
    
      This is how I feel, and I think andy also.  If I want a trophy that
    bad I'll spend $5-$15 dollars at the trophy shop for one...
    
      I cheerish my car, and it true it is special (to me)...not winning
    a trophy does not depreciate the car or change my enjoyment of the
    classic Mustang....( F O R D )....couldn't resist...heh heh heh hee...
    
      Now if were talking going to a Cruise where the cost is $0 or
    a couple of dollars...fine...let all the cars in I don't care...
    But when I am investing $15 - $65 for some of the Shows I go to...
    I FIRMLY believe that the cars judged should be Pre 1973.
    
      If I am going to spend $40 to enter a show and compete with a bozo
    who's Daddy and Mommy just bought him a New Mustang...I will not
    waste my time...and go to Stafford Springs or Thompson Motor Speedway
    and watch stok car racing or modifieds for the Day.
    
    /Bob
     
    

>    But when I am investing $15 - $65 for some of the Shows I go to...
>    I FIRMLY believe that the cars judged should be Pre 1973.


Yow!!!!!!  How much does it cost to get into a show?

I thought we had it bad getting a weekend of lead sleds and street rods, 
doo-wop and accappela groups, free seminars, neon and flamethrowing 
competition, muffler rapping contests, prom queen judging, makeshift 
drive-in movies (a screen erected on the side of a truck), a sock hop, 
kids games, teeter-totter (try and balance your car on it), etc for 
$40.00.  I guess we got off cheap in comparison.

...oh, yea.  There weren't any trophies, though.

    
      There was a show out in Delaware....Mustang nationals....$65.  If you
    think that is HIGH, there are Shows that are shows that my friend has
    gone to that cost him an entrance fee of $200.  Of course his car
    is strictly a NON Driven Concours car...BIG concours show out in OHIO,
    makes the New York Nationals look like small joke.
    
     Around the Tax-A chussets area...the most i've seen is Worcester
    nationals, put on by Bobby Moscoffison, and the car Club I belong to,
    and man many others...
    
    /Bob
    
      I love the Summer nation BUD girls....  8888888')   WOW !
    

>     Around the Tax-A chussets area...the most i've seen is Worcester
>    nationals, put on by Bobby Moscoffison, and the car Club I belong to,
>    and man many others...


Yea, speakin' of that show; he had a long distance award.  You were 
supposed to go up to the DJ table and "sign in".  The DJ'd been babbling 
all day long about someone who'd driven 800 or so miles to the event.  My 
friend from Winnipeg (who'd driven down in a T-bucket) went up and signed 
in.  The DJ them made a remark about "Winnipeg is a lot farther than..."

When it came time for the awards, they tried to award the "long distance, 
foreign" to a car from Nova Scotia.  Since I know Bob, I asked him what the 
story was and he said it was something the DJ had a handle on.  The 
announcer then got on the mike and said the award was given to whoever came 
up and signed in as the farthest away and he inferred that Liz hadn't made 
him aware of her 1900+ mile trip..  When he said that, a chorus of 
front-rowers yelled out his remark about Winnipeg being announced as the 
farthest so far earlier that day.

Bob had to grab the michrophone and apologize.  Someone remarked that the 
Nova Scotia couple were part of the "in crowd".

BTW, Bob's New England Summer Nationals is 4 days long.  The admission 
price to that show is pretty cheap when you look at what you get.

    
    Bob's Show is not concours either....

    
>    Bob's Show is not concours either....


*THAT'S* for sure!!!!!!!!!

    
      As a matter of fact I was at the Ramada Inn last year, Him , Sal, 
    their wives ...all sitting around after one of the cruises and we
    had much..too much to drink in the lounge ( Cruizins ) .  Anyway,
    
     he was Plowed, and drove his red rod home.....the wife went home
    with some friends...Should have seen Poor bobby's Face the day after
    ....HA HA HA.....He happend to have a Tree step out in front of him
    on the way home on oxford.
    
      He had it fixed ....most of the work in his Body shop is just fixing
    his vehicles.  As a matter of fact I think he sold the body shop, but
    still operates the Performance Parts store.
    
    /Bob
    

I believe the body shop demise was as a result of a bad business decision.  

Scuttlebutt is that he co-signed for someone who defaulted on a loan or 
something and the Feds came in and took the place from him.

FYI: For you folks who also read the NASCAR racing notes file.
TMAGNO is still messed up so no pointer to the new location could be
entered until everyone is back from vacation.  _We_ NEVER get to go on
vacation, so hopefully NASCAR won't be disappearing anymore.  No more
musical notesfile location, it should be stable now.

Mike

     <<< TURRIS::TURRIS$DKA200:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EASYNET_CONFERENCES.NOTE;2 >>>
                       -< EasyNet Conference Directory >-
================================================================================
Note 3072.8                 NASCAR racing conference                      8 of 8
VMSNET::M_MACIOLEK "Four54 Camaro/Only way to fly"   15 lines  26-OCT-1993 15:33
                -< NASCAR has moved to a more permanent home. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, we killed TMAGNO.  The NASCAR notes file is now located on
    VMSNET.  Hopefully, this should be a more permanent home.
    
    To update your note books, enter
    
    Notes> Mod ent NASCAR/FILE=VMSNET::$2$DUA20:[MADMIKE]NASCAR
    
    Hopefully this should preserve your next unseen map.  We're currently
    trying to lock up the old conference on TMAGNO, to prevent further
    access.
    
    Regards,
    
    Mike Maciolek
    DTN: 343-0317 

****
{change MOD to add if you'd like to check it out.  Also the old conference
on TMAGNO is gone (renamed) so we won't get out of synch} 

    Anybody know whats up with Carbuffs ?? I read that something
    was changing and if you couldn't access at DLOACT:: use 23939::
    I haven't had any luck with either has anybody else ?
    
            Dean

    thanks
    
           Dean

                           NWTIMA::DRAG_RACING
    
      Anybody else having problems accessing the DRAG_RACING notes
    file?  I keep getting "Remote node is not currently reachable"
    messages. 
    
    /steve

I haven't had any problem so the problem is probably in your network area.

skip  (in area 15)

    Nope, works fine!
    
    Stan

    
    We changed areas recently and perhaps your area router database was not
    updated. If you still have problems send me Email at the above address
    and I'll send you more info.
    
    Don Berry
    

    But Don, if he can't reach node NWTIMA, how will he send you mail
    there??? :-(
    
    Harry
    

    I couldn't.. Fortunately I have the problem fixed (thanks Mike). 
    Now all of BXB2 can enjoy DRAG_RACING.  Too bad the activity is
    so sparse in there...  8^)

    /steve

    It may pick up with the weather.  I hope.  There's some good info in
    there.
    
    MadMike

    
        Drag racing is allowed in BXB2? WOW!
    
    -john

    Skip,
    
    I just spoke with Randy Ellison (TFSOed Muscle Car noter) and he is
    building a shop in California and would like information on the waste
    oil heater that you have. You can drop me a line at the above address
    and I will get the information to him.
    
    Thanks
    Don
    
    

    
    Thanks Harry,
    
    Are you out there Mad Weldor?? My wife thinks I am mad now and then ...
    when I get to welding with my new TIG welder. 
    
    db
    

    Hi Don,
    Mad Weldor here. So your looking for a waste oil heater. I only have
    experience with a LenAir 110 dripper type. They also make a pump/
    nozzle spray type. The one I have sells for around 1k and the other
    type starts at 3k. Out your way, I would check in the Thomas Register
    books for companys that sell/make heaters. There is companys all over
    the states. Also check with your local codes on the use of the oil
    heater. My town said "no problem". 
    
    Jim

The time has come that Digital has decided that it no longer needs my services. 
My group is losing about 30% in this latest round of layoffs and I am part of
that number.  I have enjoyed working for Digital for these past 18 years
and am hopeful that the experience gained here will help me find a new job in
software engineering (what I do now).  I think that 03-Jun will be my last day.

Although I have not met most of you face to face, I count you all as friends. 
You've helped me when I had questions, you've read my ramblings about my Vega,
and I have done my best to add knowledge and insight to the discussions in this
conference.

Best of luck to all of you in the future.

Sincerely,
Mark Forbes 

    
    Mark,
    
    It has been a pleasure noting with you. Maybe we can continue our
    corespondence on the "Information Superhighway" drop me a line at
    berrydo@nwtima.enet.dec.com (at least for the time being).
    
    You will be missed.
    
    Don
    
    

Mark,

I'd like to thank you for your input over the years.  Your help and insight
has been invaluable to me.  It won't be the same without you.

Be well,
  Eric

Does anyone know of a place in either the Hudson/Marlboro or
Fitchburg/Leominster area that sells the Meguire products?  I'm looking for
several of their products to clean/prep/wax my car!  Specifically I
think it's #2, 7, 9 and 26 (carnumba wax).

Thanks,

Cathi P

I know the NAPA auto parts store on RT 62 (Main St.) Maynard has a large
selection of Meguire products.

Eric

After reading through many of the notes in this file, I thought I'd
be purchasing Meguires #2, 7, 9 and 26 to apply to my 67 camaro for
a 'great shine'.  But, I called Meguires, and was very suprised when I
got my 'prescription guide' in the mail.  They suggested:

	1.  Wash once a week with Meguire's Deep Crystal Soft Wash Gel

	2.  Apply wax (Meguire's Medallion) at least 6 times a year
	
	3.  Use Meguire's Quick Detailer as needed to prevent water spotting,
	    remove insects, bird droppings, etc.


Has anyone tried the Meguire's Medallion?  Were you happy with the results?


Thanks

Cathi P.

P.S.  I have a 67 Chevy Camaro, New paint job last  year - White/Clear coat
      Garaged when not used.  Don't drive it in the rain.. unless I get
       caught unexpectedly in a rain storm/shower.

    
       Cathi I use the Glaze product...I like it.  The BEST product I use
    is the Final Inspection product.  This smells "wicked" nice...It
    smells so nice that it drives me Crazy....  :-)
    
       Anyway this stuff I use before a show and at a show removes ALL
    dirt, SAP, road tar, Bird Crap...ect...ect....and leaves a SHINE that
    is Excellent !
    
    /Bob_'69 Stang owner
    
    
    

	Since my employment will be 'temporary' after Monday (TFSO) - I'll
say goodbye in this temporary topic note.

	Good luck to you all - this file has been good reading and educational.

I won't get a change to put in Mark Forbes latest events in his words, 
(since I'll be gone, too), but he supercharged his Vega, didn't like some 
elements of the performance (with the 327) and now is building a 4-bolt main 
350 for it.  His goal is to make it a bit more streetable and still probably
faster than before.  He added a full inside cage and some other things, and
it really looks sharp.


Steve

    Anybody know where Carbuffs went? I haven't been able to get to it for
    several days.
    
    Lou
    

    Carbuffs ( for those mercedes & beemer driving folks) is alive
    and well on SCAACT:: (which is 23850::CARBUFFS).  Try opening it
    with the node number as opposed to the name.  I'll bet your systems
    decnet db got played with and it's not looking at the right spot.

    I got a really neat gift last week...an original copy of a 1958 Rod and
    Custom magazine!  
    
    It's pretty cool...cost $.25 then...some of the prices on advertised
    items tend to put things in perspective!  I'll post some of the items
    when I get a chance.
    
    One of the things that caoght my eye was an article on installing
    side-pipes...they recommended using flex tubing to attach the glass
    packs to the side pipes!
    
    /TB/