Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Unless you have a compelling reason to go with Apple, I suggest
    you take a serious look at the Atari 1040 ST and the Commodore
    Amiga, both of which make the Mac and the IIGS look like toys when
    it comes to color graphics, and cost, in equivalent configurations,
    about *half* what the Apple products do.
    
    The main advantage of a Mac or a IIGS is the availability of old
    software, but that situation is changing rapidly.
    
    Since you have a DX, the ability of the machine to generate sounds
    is of marginal value.  Just what do you want to do with the computer?
    
    Don't believe what your Apple dealer tells you about Atari and
    Commodore,and don't believe what your Atari dealer tells you about
    Commodore.  Talk to people who actually own and use the machines.
    An awful lot of the Apple "mystique" is pure hype, and almost all
    of the bad mouthing of Commodore and Atari is pure BS.
    
    Please note that just about *any* modern PC is usable for synthesis
    applications; MIDI adaptors can be had for a song, so the "builtin"
    MIDI port on the Atari is no big deal.  The main issue is software,
    both availability and quality thereof.
    
    There is precious little music software for the IIGS that isn't
    simply old II software.  Both the Atari and the Amiga support
    Electronic Arts' Deluxe Music Construction Set, worth investigating.
    It will eventually be available on the IIGS, and may already be
    available on the Mac.  The Amiga also supports Mimetics SoundScape
    system, an ambitious (if still buggy) fully integrated environment
    for doing serious music.
    
    There is also a lot of good stuff available for the IBM PC, and
    if money is an issue, you'd be surprised by what you can do with
    a Commodore 64/128, which has made an unbelievable "comeback" with
    respect to music software in the past year.
    
    len.
    

    
    	Len's advice is wise.
    
    	In addition, unless you are seriously interested in developing
    your own software, I will (re)offer some advice originally given
    by John Sauter - First find the software that does exactly what
    you want it to do, and then find out what systems it runs on.
    
	John has also said 'don't buy futures'. That is, don't believe
    a salesperson who says that there's *gonna* be all this great
    software available in the next 6 months.

    	Also, what else (besides music) might you be interested in using
    your pc for?  Color graphics are not terribly important for music
    applications.
							- Karl

    Karl's remark about color graphics is relevant, but I have to point
    out that though I originally bought my Amiga for musical applications,
    once I started taking advantage of its graphics features I couldn't
    go back.  Call it serendipity or what you will, but I'm now hooked
    on another mode of expression.
    
    And I'll second (third?) Karl's reiteration of John's advice - don't
    buy futures.  It's all air/smoke/mirrors.  I'm *still* waiting for
    some *real* sequencing software for the Amiga.  In the meantime
    my Roland MC500 keeps me functioning (and then some!).
    
    len.
    

    Definitely consider an Atari St, or an Amiga.  If having the computer
    manufacture sounds is important, then the Amiga can give you fairly
    good stereo (4 voices?) and the Atari mono (3 voices?).  The Amiga
    has better color graphics, but the Atari will be better for word
    processing with its monochrome monitor (if you go Atari, I recommend
    getting a color monitor and monochrome monitor.  Some packages don't
    work on both color and monochrome (which can be a disadvantage,
    sometimes), I think most music software works on the color monitor,
    but it bears checking into.  The Atari will save you some money,
    given that it touts a midi-in and midi-out port.  The Amiga has
    a Genloc interface, which will let you do creative things with
    video, if you are ever so inclined.
    
    Decide what is right for you, don't let anyone else try to decide
    that for you!  I know I am sounding like a broken record, given
    all the previous replies, but tis so true.  There is a lot of
    "religion" in computers.
    
    While on "religous" topics, SPHINX::AMIGA and SPHINX::ATARIST (or
    is it ATARI_ST?) are two conferences worth checking out.  I am sure
    that there must be some MAC and IBM conferences kicking around to,
    but be prepared to "get religion" when you read them.  :-)
    
    						-Dave

    I see my messages are getting through; thanks, guys.     
    
    "What's critical to a home computer-based music system is software.
    Find the software that does what you want, then find good hardware
    to run it on."
    
    "Don't buy futures -- if the salesman can't demonstrate it, in the
    store, today, it may not be real, and it may never be real."
                                             
    I'm still waiting for the Amiga, since the Macintosh doesn't have
    color.  It may be a race between the Macintosh II and the Amiga
    2000.  However, if I were required to buy a computer today I'd
    probably go with the Macintosh.  As I read the trade mags it seems
    to have the best music software.  Something to watch for in a sequencer
    is the number of notes it can hold.  Songs require an astonishing
    number of notes, particularly when you are editing.  Don't settle
    for less than 10,000; 20,000 is better, and 40,000 better yet.
    Check a salesman's claim by using the sequencer's COPY feature to
    see how big a song you can make.
        John Sauter

    There's some very good software available for the Mac, both for music
    and other things. The well-defined Mac system software makes most Mac
    programs much more uniform and able to interact than on other machines.
    I strongly recommend looking at the Macintosh. The 512KE can now be had
    new for under $1000 and even better deals are easy to find for used
    systems.

    The Mac II is probably not going to be a competitor in the home market
    for a while. It will cost $4-5000 and will more directly compete with
    Sun and the workstation market. Note, however, that it will come down in
    price someday and Mac programs will run on it--a nice upgrade path to
    look forward to. With the new announcements, Apple will discontinue all
    of the current Macs except the Mac Plus. Look for a price drop on that,
    maybe to as low as $1000.

	Mark Herdeg

    We appreciate all the advice we've received.  Believe me, by working
    in presales I know how "future" talk can cause ulcers.  We are going
    to check out the other note files recommended and continue doing
    our homework.
    
    We do want to use the system for more than just music, but music
    is the primary reason for the purchase.  Next in line are business
    applications including w.p., database, drawings for advertisements
    (basis for graphics capability), and spreadsheet applications --
    in that order.  The ability to upgrade is also an important factor.
    
    I'll let you know what our final decision is.  Thanks again.

    There is a MacIntosh notes file at VIKING::FLG:[WASSER]MACINTOSH.
    You should check there for info/rumors/flames about the MAC.  Not
    everything there is total MAC idolatry -- there is good info also,
    that may help you make up your mind.
    
    I have a MAC+ and use it for a number of purposes, including music
    entry and editing.  For pure score entry, Deluxe Music Construction
    Set does a pretty good job.  It can be used as a sequencer I think,
    having some kind of capability of talking MIDI.  It's internal sound
    generation capability is limited (sounds better if you hook a decent
    HiFi to it) being strictly mono, and only generating around 20,000
    samples a second.
    
    The other advice is good -- ignore what isn't on the shelf *right
    now*.  Also consider what else you want to use the beast for.
    
    John

    The MACINTOSH notes are very good, thanks.  We decided to purchase
    a MAC+ mainly because of a music program called "Mark of the Unicorn".
    My husband, Chico, has a lot of interest for the music program and
    after some research decided this was the way to go.  All I know
    is that it allows up to 50,000 of "whatever (measures?)" to be entered
    in a song.  (In a note by John Sauter I believe he or someone stated 
    that you should be able to have 10,000, 20,000 was even better, and so 
    on).
                                                  
    A comment in another note stated that on the 2GS you can run mainly
    "old" Apple II s/w -- he was defintely right.  There is nothing
    that was especially impressive in terms of software.  If my kids want 
    to play some games, they can use my neice's Apple IIE.
    
    Our power's been off for two days, we bought it on that first day,
    so we haven't had a chance to do too much yet.  Just for a side
    note, we asked about the MAC II (if it's going to have a color
    display).  We were told no, but it's not a big deal for our
    applications.
    
    We just want to say thanks to all of you who offered advice.  It
    really made a difference.
    
    Felecia & Chico

    Please keep us informed of your experiences.  I would much rather
    learn about a product by listening to its users than by reading
    advertisements in magazines.
        John Sauter

Re: .9

Mark of the Unicorn is the name of the company that sells two music software
packages for the Mac. You got Professional Performer, a MIDI sequencing
program. They also sell Professional Composer, a music editing program.

That 50,000 refers to the number of MIDI events that can be recorded (like
Note On and Note Off).

There most definitely will be a color screen available for the Mac II.
Unfortunately, that machine is going to be a whole new beast: no upgrade
path and a much higher price tag.

Enjoy your Mac.

	Mark Herdeg

    	Interesting, no one bothered to discuss the topics of music
    creation using the various systems.....I would be interested in
    hearing what other systems have for them.  I have a IIgs and am
    using it primarily for business purposes currently, however music
    is an interest of mine.  With some of the software that I have
    purchased, I can compose/print and play music without a midi interface
    or keyboard and it sounds GREAT, however I am planning to purchase a
    midi interface and "real" synth down the line...(as soon as I learn
    how to use the toy synth I bought a while ago....)
    
    							Paul S.