Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Why don't you bring that sucker up to "Fast Eddie's Hack-O-Rama"??
    
    I'll make you some patches...
    
    Edd

    Do a DIR/TITL=PATCH or DIR/TITL=ENSONIQ. 

    There are lots of topics on this already.

    I'm sorry Brad.. I didnt see anything pertaining to my question!
    I did dir/titl=ensoniq,patch,sq80 and also did DIR #. * and went
    thru all the replys.  The only thing I found was some Esq-1 patches.
    
    
    
                                                         
    

    Hmmmm - I know that there have been Voice Crystal discussions in here
    before in one of the ESQ topics.  I need to get that blasted topical
    directory and keywords completed.

    Sigh.  Too much work, too little time.  Anyway, I think VC and Cesium
    are probably your best bet.  db?  Anyone else? 

-b

    > db? 
    
    This note really should be moved into one of the many ESQ topics... 
    I don't care which really, I'd just prefer not to have yet another
    ESQ-1 topic...  'nuf said...
    
    Anyway, I have tried Voice Crystals 1-3.  These are regarded to be
    among the best.  The positive side is that the sounds are all very
    interesting, although not all very useful.
    
    I was hoping to get a lot of realistic instrument copies (sounds
    that attempt to sound like REAL instruments as opposed to synthetic
    sounds).  In that regard I was a little bit dissapointed in that
    there werent' that many of them, although the ones that they
    did have all get A's and B's in my book.
    
    I ended up buying the VC-3.  It just had a lot of good sounds that
    I find myself using ALL THE TIME in both my MIDI home-recording work
    and my Top-40 band.  I particularly love the SYMPHNY strings which
    are as lush a backing string sound as I've heard.  I've already created
    about a dozen variations on it by diddling things like attack, decay,
    filters, etc.  Whenever I need a string sound, I generally start with
    SYMPHNY and diddle it to be what I need.
    
    I can tell you this though.  I would NEVER EVER buy this kind of
    software without having had the chance to play with it MYSELF on
    a real machine (tape demos are nice, but not enough for me).
    
    There's a lot of drek being sold out there.  Some of it is just
    minor variations on the stock sounds (the kind of thing anyone could
    have done), some of it is totally useless unpleasant sounds, and lots
    of it is just plain garbage.
    
    I'll only buy what I can try out on my own, as was the case with the
    VC-3.
    
    BTW, you apparently read the Transoniq Hacker, but for the benefit of
    those who don't, they review third party patches.  In my opinion their
    reviews tend to be a bit too positive to be believeable, but they
    help evaluate things on a relative scale at least.
    
    	db
    
    

    	So.... db   seeing we are on the subject, have you tried the
    sax2,sax3,sax4 patch in novembers issue?  I looked at it briefly
    and it appears sax3 is layered with sax2, and split with sax4 or
    something like that.  If you've tried it, was it worth creating
    the patch?  We know how cheap sax patches sound.
    
    Thanks for the feedback....
    
    Eric
    
    I heard that at Fast Eddies Hackorama.... Rap Master Edd C.  has
    made replicas of Scholar plus modems answering, and equivalent 
    head set noise on a 56K circuit.  Have to get those patches.
    

    I borrowed a Voice Crystal 1 for a couple of days... Would you believe
    that there was not a SINGLE PATCH in that thing that I considered
    new and interesting enough to be WORTH stealing?
    	:-)
    
    But seriously, I didn't find them _bad_, just more of the same.
    Nothing that made me want to go and play (ok, sequence) something 
    new and interesting.
    
    Listen to them before you buy them.  
    
    	-Bill (avoiding the should-you-write-your-own-patches-rathole)

    I get my issues from someone else.  I don't think I have the 
    November issue yet because what you've mentioned doesn't ring
    a bell.
    
    But all this talk has rung another bell which I forgot to mention.
    
    Some of the Voice Crystal sounds are layered but:
    
    	1) Do not follow the labelling convention for labelled sounds
    	   suggested by the manual so you can't tell by the name.
    
    	2) The layer programs are all in the INTERNAL bank.  Which
    	   means that the proper way to audition Voice Crystal sounds
    	   is to copy them into the internal bank.
    
    I had the VC-3 for about 6 months before I noticed that.  I didn't
    get any documentation with mine (other than a list of the program
    names) and had no way of knowing.
    
    The third party patch reviews in the Transoniq Hacker have made 
    pleas to the programmers to provide some number of the following
    with their patchs
    
    	1) A description of the sound and how it's intended to be used
    
    	2) Where possible (data cassette tape and SQ-80 floppy media) provide
    	   demos that use the sounds so that they can be heard in a
    	   musical context.
    
    I think these are GREAT IDEAS and thankfully many programmers are
    doing these things nowadays.
    
    Some programmers will also allow you to select each of the forty
    sounds you get from their collection.  The typical thing is that
    you get an audio demo tape, and then mark the 40 sounds from the
    tape you want, send it in, then they give you a bank with those
    sounds.
    
    This seems like a good way of weeding out the throwaway patches and
    getting real value for what you pay.
    
    	db

    Dave,
          Can you tell me how much the VC-3 cost and where you 
    bought it?
    
    Thanks
    Rick L.
    

    Actually, I bought it some place in Atlanta and I don't remember the
    name.  I bargained them down to $50 (no great deal really, I think
    it's like $39 by mail) and then they presented me with a $53 Visa
    charge and told me the $3 was the overhead for the Visa.
    
    I pointed out that Visa sent a note with a recent bill that said to
    report any place that charges EXTRA for paying with a credit card
    (nearly any gas station but....) and that I intended to do that if they
    didn't rewrite the bill.
    
    The manager was consulted... he apologized for the "mistake".  I paid
    $50.  I would not go back there.  In fact, the only reason I didn't
    walk out was because the salesman was pretty darn good about letting
    me demo the patches and I have moral problems with going into music
    stores to demo stuff and then mail ordering it (I think that's wrong).
    
    	db

    If it was Atlanta and you got ripped off, it was either at Americana or
    at Rhythm City.  I wouldn't feel the least bit bad about burning their
    time and then buying mail-order. 

-b

    It was Rhythm City.   Note that they sorta "tried" to rip me off,
    but didn't really succeed.  I think I paid about what most stores
    are selling it for.
    
    Also understand that it was the manager who tried to rip me off, not
    the salesman, who seemed like a decent guy. 
    
    I'm also pretty  moralistic about demoing at local stores with the
    intention only to buy mail-order.  That gives MO a tremendous unfair
    advantage.
    
    And in most cases totally unnecessary.   Most of the
    major chains (certainly Daddy's, EU's and LaSalles) will match
    a bonafide MO price anyway, and you get the advantages of having
    bought it from a local store (which I consider to be a significant
    advantage) and you also find that once you've made a big purchase 
    at a local store, they treat like a celebrity when you walk in 
    the next time.
    
    Some people just are afriad to haggle a little over price.  I'm not.
    When I see someone say "Daddy's is selling it for $xxx " where xxx is
    the asking price, I cringe because I know with only the slightest
    amoung of bargaining, they'll sell it for a lot less.
    
    Of course, in NH it would've been tax-free but Daddy's doesn't carry
    VC for the [E]SQ.
    
    	db

    The "manager" is the owner of both aforementioned stores (George
    Luther).  My friends at ProFound (Bruce and Shane) used to work for him
    until he blackballed them ... they couldn't get a job at any store
    within a 4 or 5 state area for almost a year, thanks to good old
    George.  What a scumbag.  (And yes, the salesmen there are very nice
    guys - bought my ESQ-Ms from Mark.) 

    Morality or not, I don't feel bad about not giving my money to a cheat,
    even if he does provide a convenience.

    End of the rathole.

-b

    > I don't feel bad about not giving my money to a cheat
    
    One last word on the rathole:
    
    	Is it not also "cheating" to go into a store, presenting
    	yourself as a potential buyer, taking up their time and resources,
    	and yet having no intention of buying there?
    
    	Is not that also "cheating" the people who buy there and thus
    	end up absorbing the costs of the MO order buyers?
    
    We should have a "philosophical problems of MUSIC" conference were
    we can talk about MUSIC "related" philosophical issues like this,
    scalping, bootlegging, copyrights, etc.  I don't deny that it's
    off the topic, but the discussions could be very interesting.

    
    	I tried programming the SAX2, SAX3, SAX4 patch in Novembers
    issue of the Hacker.  SAX2 is split with SAX3 and layered with SAX4.
    Of course each patch reside on different octaves of the scale, but
    the only major diff between them is SAX4 has a funny bell ring to
    it.  Anyway, the combined effort, SAX2 needs a lot of tweeking.
    It doesnt sound close to a realistic sax, and I have heard some
    pretty close sounding sax patches in some music produced by LA face
    Pro.  I know it isnt midi'ed sax by the way it is played.  Not unless
    it is some pretty good sampling!
    
    Jr. hacker
    

    Sax patches often sound poor when played statically. Bitch bend,
    AT, velo and BC (where applicable) can make all the difference
    in the world with a sax patch. So can FX...
    
    ...course, I s'pose the patch could really be poor.
    
    Edd

    This is late notice, but there is gonna be an Ensoniq Rep at
    Daddy's in Nashua from 5-8pm tonite.
    
    I'm gonna see if I can steal some patches and demos.  I really
    love demos.  I use them to show my stuff off to friends.  It's
    like saying "see, you can do incredible stuff with this junk,
    even if *I* can't".
    
    Getting back to the topic, demos also have the property that
    you can hear a patch in the context for which it's intended.
    
    	db

    
    I'm looking for a Ocean Wave patch..  should be pretty easy to program,
    I tried.  Close but no cigar.  Nothing like the MKS-30 wave.  Does
    anyone have it handy.?
    
    
    
    Eric

    I have a patch with ocean waves and segul calls.  Some of you may
    have heard it at Falljam 88.  I think its really good.
    
    If you don't want the seguls you can turn them off pretty easily by
    turning off certain oscillators. 
    
    Actually there's an interesting story about this patch.
    
    The fantastic singer in my falljam band (Tallis) was a Lourdes.
    
    After Falljam, she called and asked me to rush a tape of our
    set to her cause she wanted her other keyboard player to learn
    some of the parts I played.
    
    Well, I went to her next concert.   Have to confess to getting
    a real kick hearing someone else playing the parts and solos
    you created.  I've never been "copped" before and probably never
    will again.
    
    Her other keyboard player is one of Kurzweil's principle sound
    designers for the 1000 series.  Turns out Lourdes talked him
    into designing a waves and gulls patch for the K-1000 so that
    it could be used at this concert.
    
    I talked with the guy for awhile (really SUPER guy) about various
    things (including stuff like "got any job openings there?") and
    I think this patch might be on some future update for Kurzweil.
    
    So if it does, I want all of you Kurzy owners to know that I had
    some (very) small part in that patch being there.
    
    	db

    Gee Wilikers...
    
    When is someone going to design some SQ80 patches using the machines
    full capabilities?  Is it to much to ask for a library of Piano's and
    Bass?  
    
    I purchased the Mescal Music patches advertised to be designed
    especially for the SQ.  Out of 40 patches maybe 10 were useful.  
    
    It must be time to stop creating the original tunes for a while and
    get into some heavy patch making!  
    
    ED
    

    Ed,
    
    There are some slimey people in the 3rd-party patch software market
    who throw out garbage.
    
    But if you perceive 1/4th to be "useful" you're doing REAL well
    in my experience.
    
    I think part of it, is that you have to hear the patches used in
    the kind of context they are intended for.
    
    Take for example, the factory patches.  I would think most of them
    were "useless" too unless you sorta dissect the demos they come with
    and see how some of the more odd patches are used.
    
    There's a trend in this market to provide demos with patches (which is
    particularly easy to do on Ensoniq machines cause almost all Ensoniq
    stuff have builtin sequencers).  Let's hope this trend continues.
    
    	db

    	Though this is my first time purchasing 3rd party patches... I can
    say that I'm happy with what I got.  When venders announce new
    products, your first time hearing the patches totaly amazes the ear!
    After you buy the unit, it only takes a few months for the patches to
    sound like your same ole dry sounding AVERAGE patches.  Like the 
    Korg M1....  first hearing it (with its 24 note layering abilities) was
    beyond incredible.  Now when I go to the music stores and tinker around
    with it, it sounds like any other synth.  
    
    	I did find that some patches on my TX81Z layer very well with some
    of those off the wall patches from Mescal Music.  I took 1 patch and
    duplicated it in a few different forms of a basic EP, Brass, Jazz
    Guitar and each one of these works well by itself but works excellent
    with selected patchs and performances on the TX81Z.  In this respect
    I am happy with the purchase.  Not that the patches were all that
    great, but they lifted my imagination of what I wanted to hear in a
    patch up 3 levels.  
    
    ED

    
    This is a review of the audio demo tape available from Valhala.  They
    have a package of 757 patches, available in a couple of different
    formats (see below).  A list of the patches is available for free,
    while the demo tape is $3 postpaid.  You really need the tape as the
    patch names really don't help much.  As usual, a lot of the ones that
    have cool names are duff sounds.
    
    The tape is arranged in groups of 20 patches.  A voice over before each
    group keeps you oriented.  There are actually 758 (??) patches on the
    tape, plus an additional 80 percussion sounds which are available on a
    ROM. All patches are really ESQ-1 patches, they do not take advantage
    of the 80's extra waveforms.  The patches are laid out randomly,
    although often two or more similarly named patches are adjacent.  With
    only six characters, names get confusing.  CLAV 1 and CLAV-1, for
    instance.  Each patch is played for a second or two (sometimes with
    trademark phrases to catch your ear; I heard "Jump", "Whiter Shade of
    Pale", "Joy to the World", "When You See A Chance" and some Billy Joel
    tune quoted).
    
    Out of 757 patches, I found 60 that I liked enough to mark on the
    sheet.  Most of these were the sort of fat, analogish sounds that the
    Ensoniq does well.  In particular, a group of patches called
    SYMPY1-SYMPY9 were nice, large symphonic ensembles, great for pads. 
    There are two trombones which are lousy bone emulations but excellent
    big brass-like blasts.  On pianos, there is a series of ACGRD1-ACGRD9,
    but of these, #1 is the most realistic, the others get more electronic
    (processed) sounding.  OLDGRD is a fantastic honky-tonk sound.  It
    sounds like the "detuned" effect makes it easier to fool your ears.
    Also two Rhodes that I liked, and quite a few FM tine pianos which were
    well done (I hate that sound, though).  There were also three excellent
    B3-with-Leslie patches in there, along with the usual grabbag of pipe
    organ variations.  In percussion-type things, there is a nice log drum,
    good congas, nice steel drums.  The separate 80 voice percussion
    patches sounded pretty synthetic and since you could do better with the
    SQ-80's percussion waveforms, I skipped listening to all of them.  One
    caveat on the tape (since the ESQs are noted for digital grunge on some
    sounds) is that a few patches had broke up (distorted) when auditioned
    through headphones.  These tended to be bell-like ones, so it may be
    just a poor recording, but there were only a few of these and I was not
    interested that much in those sounds, anyway.
    
    Here's the formats: Book of 757 patch sheets is $25, all 757 patches
    loaded onto an SQ-80 disk is $75, then there are ROM sets (not EE)
    which are listed on the back of the patch sheet which contain various
    subsets of the 757.  There are four 80 voice ROMs, $25 each, two 160
    voice ROMs (each duplicates two of the 80 voice ones) for $52 each
    (hmm, it's $2 cheaper to buy the 80s!!!) or two 320 voice ROMs which do
    *not* correspond directly to the 80 voice ones, at $99 each.  The 80
    percussion voices are available on ROM only for $30.  The demo tape is
    $3, postpaid, patch listing free with SASE.  $3.50 S&H.  Phone orders
    800-648-6434, ext 501.  Info, 313-548-9360.  Mail is:
    
    	Valhala
    	Box 20157
    	Ferndale, MI 48220

    
    I got copies of the two Voice Crystal disks for the SQ-80 the other
    day.  Unlike some companies, the Eye and I/VC people pay attention to
    packaging, so the initial impression in getting a blister packed
    diskette with a silk-screened label is "These guys are on the ball".
    The patches pretty much back that up.
    
    Both disks have two 40 patch banks.  Each bank also has one or more
    associated demo sequences.  The patch types are distributed randomly. 
    Each bank has some pianos, organs, strings, horns, etc. but only the
    first disk has an acoustic piano, for example. 
    
    Disk VC1 has the acoustic piano (nice variation on the factory piano), 
    a tack piano with a good percussive attack and two absolute dog
    patches, a dobro and SHOBUD, a pedal steel guitar.  These two are set
    up to demonstrate poly-aftertouch for bending notes in chords (check
    out the awful demo sequence "C&W").  OK, it works, but they are poor
    recreation sof the real thing.
    
    Disk VC2 has a very realistic accordion called PARIS and a decent
    classical guitar (OK, don't sell your sampler for this one) plus some
    nice atmospheric and electronic sounding pads which are showcased in
    one of the demos.  No acoustic piano on this disk.
    
    There is zero documentation with these.  A cardboard backing sheet in
    the blister pack lists the patch names, that's it.  
    
    My copy of VC1 arrived with a defect.  I had to do multiple reads of
    the first patch bank before it would read without errors. I immediately
    backed it up, of course.  I called Eye and I and they will replace the
    disk at no charge; I have to pay return post, they will ship back
    second day air.  They said they will provide backups to identified
    purchasers indefinitely. That seems decent service to me.
    
    These disks are being discontinued.  Until the end of March, the price
    has been lowered to $20 per disk, plus $3 per order for shipping.  The
    ESQ-1 Voice Crystals are available also at $40 per 80 patch cart (3
    volumes) or $7 per 40 patch tape (6 volumes).  Phone for orders and
    service is 408-945-0139.
    
    							Brian

    
    Re: .24
    
    Just a followup on Voice Crystal.  I mentioned that one disk was
    defective, but managed to get one good read of it, which was enough to
    do a backup.  I returned the disk to them (my cost $1.50 for postage,
    plus aggravation) they returned a new (and good) disk to me.  It did
    take about three weeks to do the swap, though.  I'm satisfied with the
    service.  Plus the patches are decent, too  8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    							Brian

    
    I received a 160-voice EEPROM cart from Maartists over the weekend.
    Maartists is primarily in the memory business, they sell carts for lots
    of machines (CZ, DX, D-50, K1, etc.) as well as memory expander boards,
    etc.  The carts come loaded with patches, but they are almost an
    afterthought.  Maartists uses patches from an outside developer, I
    think PatchWorks from NYC.
    
    The cart is a typical 2-bank cart, a small slide switch lets you kick
    between the two 80 voice banks.  The documentation exists solely of
    instructions on how to insert the cart and operate the slide switch. 
    No information is given on the patches, not even a patch listing.
    
    I fired up the first patch and was quite impressed.  Then I started
    wondering why it sounded so good and checked the split/layer menu and
    sure enough, it was layered.  A good portion of the patches in here are
    layered, and there are a few splits.  Maartists does *not* use the
    convention Ensoniq recommends in the manuals to differentiate layered
    and split patches by name.  I found two splits that were split to
    patches in the *internal* bank, ooh, bad move!  How could the developer
    possibly know what patch is in that bank?  
    
    The other big zit is the patch names are not too descriptive.  There
    are dozens of patches with names like SYNxx, or ORGxx, which makes it
    hard to differentiate between them when looking for a certain sound. 
    Others have names that may have meant something to the developer but
    not to me.
    
    Without performance notes, you have to spend some time playing with
    velocity and the wheels to see how these patches respond.  I found a
    few where the wheel allowed real-time filter control and one where the
    wheel modulated a very slow LFO which detuned the oscillators...adjusting
    the wheel essentially allowed real-time detuning, cool effect.  The
    best patches were in the B part of the second bank, a number of SYNxx
    patches which were very electronic sounding, in the vein of early
    seventies analog sounds.  Of course, there's plenty of pianos, organs,
    strings, brass, sound effects, mini-moogs, etc., just as in most patch
    collections (so how come noone makes really *specialized* patch sets,
    anyway?).
    
    I basically bought the cart because I needed a cart, and the price
    vs. patch storage was the best I could find.  The fact that out of the
    supplied patches, I get a handful of decent sounds is just gravy.  For
    those interested primarily in the *patches* I would say that the other
    third-party stuff I've purchased was superior overall.
    
    								Brian