Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    
    I'm using C-Lab Notator since December last year, mainly
    for writing and printing music. I've got no specific
    knowlegde about MIDI or SMPTE.
    
    I will check this topic now and then, so if you have any
    specific questions, please enter them here.
    
    John.

A couple of questions for you, since you probably expert at the
printing/scoring features of C-Lab:

1)	Is it possible to force it to put four bars per page-width ?

2)	When organising the staves before printing, I want to move the 'track 
	name' from 'above' to 'in front of' the staff. ie...

		instead of:	| Drums
				|=====
				|=====
				|=====...


		I want:		       |====
				Drums  |====
				       |====...

	Can you do this ?  I suppose I could just blank the 'track name', 
	and then create a 'text object' and position it suitably.

Many thanks,
Jim Burke 
    

Having just gotten it a month ago I haven't fully explored it yet but I'll
look into this this weekend after the campout I'm going on.

Chad

Dan G,

Take a look at this too.

Hi Jim,

	I presume that *both* of these questions are in reference to printing
 scores.  I've never tried it, but I'll dig through the manual to see if I 
 can come up with something.....

Dan

    Re: C-Lab Notator questions
    
    1) Is it possible to force it to put four bars per page-width ?
    
    I'm afraid not. You can change the minimum bar-width, but then still,
    depending on the structure of individual bars, it will print as many
    as will fit on a line. You can play a little with pseudo-events 70 thru
    72: these will allow you to insert blank space before/after notes, but 
    it will cost you a lot of time figuring out how much blank space to add
    to fill the line after four bars. Alternative is to print four bars at
    a time, but then some things (like beat indicator) will be repeated on
    each line, which I would not prefer.
    
    2) When organising the staves before printing, I want to move the track 
       name from 'above' to 'in front of' the staff.
    
    Again, I think that this cannot be done. You cannot move text in front
    of the stave. Only alternative is to blank the track name, use a left
    margin and write (...) the correct names on your output.
    
    I will try and see if I can come up with some more alternatives.
    BTW, I'm using version 2.1.
    
    Regards,
    
    John 
        

    Hi!
    
    I'm being recommended an ATARI/Notator configuration for use as
    a home MIDI and scoring package. Can you help me by sharing the
    good points/ bad points you've experienced. 
    
    Any comparisons with eg Concertware + MIDI?
    
    Any suggestions for printers? (The scores need to be easily read by
    choir members.)
          
                  

re: -.1

	I've had Notator for my Mega2ST for a little less than a year, and
	I think it's great.  I used it for my wedding music last August and
	taught someone how to use it in less than a half hour - it's very user 
	friendly.  For Notation purposes, I'm not sure if there's anything out
	for the Atari that's any better.  The most logical printer for use with
	Notator would be the HP Deskjet series - near laser quality output.
	However, I'm still hoping that Clab gets their act together and
	provides PostScript output pretty soon (I wonder how scores would
	look being printed on an LPS20? :^)

	I've used Concertware + MIDI for the Macintosh before.  Is this what
	you mean?  It's like comparing a VAX 9000 to an 11/785, IMHO.  Notator
	just clearly blows it away in every respect.  The price is a little 
	steep, but I think it's well worth it.  If you were to compare what 
	you'd pay for a Macintosh and Finale, you could probably get the Atari
	and Notator for less than half price.

	One other item.  In April(?), Atari is releasing their Stacy computer,
	essentially a laptop ST.  Starting prices will be somewhere around
	$1500 for 1 Meg RAM and 2 double density floppies.  Great for gigging
	*and* use at home (note:the Stacy also is said to come with a monitor
	port for hooking up a real Atari monitor at home).

	If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask,
	Dan

    Dan, Many thanks for your encouraging comments.
                                 
    Two specifics for now:        
                                 
    1. What memory size is required?
    2. Is the Mega worth the difference over the 1040?
    
    Thanks
    
    Ken   

	Notator version 2.1 requires 1 Meg of Ram so a 1040ST will do.
	However, it's nice having a 1 Meg Ramdisk. :^)

	Notator's latest version (2.2) can be run on a 1040ST as well,
	but if you have 2 Meg, you can make use of CLAB's 'Softlink'
	which is something like a multitasking environment (I haven't
	upgraded yet so I can't tell you much about this).  If you
	can afford a little more $$$, I'd say the extra Meg is worth it.

	Regarding the Stacy I mentioned in .7, there will also be a 2 Meg,
	1 floppy, 20 Meg HD configuration and a 4 Meg, 1 floppy, 40 Meg HD
	configuration available.  My guess is somewhere around $2200 and 
	$2800 list price, respectively.  With typical mail-order discounts,
	the STacy 4 would be about the same price as a Macintosh SE, I think.

	Dan

I just got 2.2 SL (new name -- SL stands for soft link) a week ago or so.
I haven't had a chance to use it yet and I only have 1 meg now so I can't
try out the task-switching yet.  This upgrade was $30 and includes about 50-70
new manual pages to replace in your manual.  However, they said not to
replace the pages yet until they send you the 2.1 manual update, which they
currently have run out of.

Biggest new feature is the soft-link thing.  Lets you partition your memory
into several (up to 9 I think) virtual computers/memory banks and load 
applications into each.  MIDI ports can be shared and CREATOR/NOTATOR can
remain active even when you are in a different partition running an application.
This works best with SL compatible programs...

Like I said, I haven't been able to try it out yet.

Notator works great for sequencing etc and for getting nivce looking
'hard-copy' of your music.  The output isn't exactly the same as a 
professional engraver but very good -- all kinds of symbols etc.

Chad

What Chad did NOT say is that he is going to demonstrate Notator at the
March 27 meeting of NaVAUS (Nashova Valley Atari Users Society).  This
meeting is at 7:15 PM at the Acton Christian Church, in Acton,
Massachusetts.  Of course, you are all invited to come.

I was going to drop a note in here about a week ahead of time, but this
topic was related...

Also present will be two guys from Dr. T's that will show "Tiger CUB"
and "Copyist Apprentice".  Copyist (the full version) is Dr. T's
offering in the notation space.  The apprentice version is cost-reduced
and correspondingly feature-reduced in some way.

I originally planned to have a 4MB "Stacy" laptop at the meeting,
because I knew that the musicians would want to take a look at this
gadget,  but latest word from Atari is that my Stacy won't be delivered
until "After April 1st".  Who knows, it might come a few days early.

Jeff,
	We will need directions. :-)

	Eirikur

Oh, of course.  The following notice will appear in the MAY14::ATARIST
conference shortly before the meeting:

     MARCH 1990          N A V A U S   M E E T I N G   N O T I C E

         Date:  Tuesday, March 27th                  7:15 Officers Reports
         Time:  7:15 pm                               7:30 Break
     Location:  Acton Christian Church                8:00 Main Program
        Topic:  Midi sequencer and notation applications

Acton Christian is at 45 Minot Ave, which is near the intersection of
Rt 2 and Rt 27.  Turn NORTH at the first traffic light on Rt 2 that is
EAST of Rt 27. (This intersection is near the entrance of Digital's
Piper Road plant.  The road is called Taylor Rd., but knowing that
won't help you.)  This road takes you passed the Conant school.  Beyond
the school, you reach a bend in the road.  The road goes left.  You
turn RIGHT onto Minot, the church is right there on your LEFT.

    I've joined the ranks of CLAB Notator user in the last 2 weeks and
    am beginning to get to grips with it.
    
    One question though:
    
    On printing a score (HP Deskjet Plus) with headings and lyrics I find 
    the text too
    small to be easily read (I have not selected "small"), and the head
    ings don't look like headings.   Changing fonts on the Deskjet make
    no difference.
    
    Any suggestions?
    
    Ken     
                                          
    

	I don't even have a printer yet.  I was hoping to get an HP Deskjet +
	myself someday in the future.  I'll be curious to find out how this 
	all turns out.

	Dan

    Sounds to me like what's going to the printer is a bit map.  Perhaps it
    is doing a screen dump?  If not, it may still be creating a bit map. 
    The advantage would be that it can use just about any printer without
    having to load special fonts for each type of printer.  Throughput
    would probably be slower in exchange for the flexibility.  My guess is
    that there is nothing you can do (aside from trying another printer).
    
    Steve

I don't think that another printer would help either (unless it had a
different ratio on the dots).  It uses some sort of screen dump.  I
don't print very often as the Nec P2200 I have doesn't like the Atari
in any reasonable mode.

We need to push back on Digidesign/C-lab (really C-Lab) for postscript file
output.

Chad

    Hi.  
         
    I have tried Notator with the SLM804 laser printer and also find the heading
    size is very poor. I hear rumours of Notator version 2.3 is coming
    soon, does anybody know what it might contain?                
                                                                  
    Also, we are running Notator 2.2 on a 2meg STe with a single 1meg
    drive and are getting problems with reading or writing to a floppy 
    other than the one on which Notator was run. The screen freezes
    and the drive light stays on. We are putting it down to Notator 2.2
    not liking TOS 1.4. Has anybody else seen this.
                                                                        
    Regards                      
         
    Derek
    
    

Derek,

>    I hear rumours of Notator version 2.3 is coming
>    soon, does anybody know what it might contain?                
 
	Actually, according to Electronic Musician magazine (June issue), 
	CLab is coming out with 3.0 fairly soon.  EM said that they will
	list the new features in next month's magazine (due out in a few 
	weeks).
                                                                 
>    Also, we are running Notator 2.2 on a 2meg STe with a single 1meg
>    drive and are getting problems with reading or writing to a floppy 
>    other than the one on which Notator was run. The screen freezes
>    and the drive light stays on. We are putting it down to Notator 2.2
>    not liking TOS 1.4. Has anybody else seen this.

	First of all, you mean a 700K floppy drive, right?  Second, 
	I can't help you if it's a TOS 1.4 problem - I don't have it yet.
	Sorry.

Dan

Actually, I ran 2.2 with 1.4 one night and it seemed to work fine.  you mention
running on an STe, that is TOS 1.6, maybe that is the problem.  Keep us informed,
a friend of mine wants to buy an Atari STe and run Notator.

Dan,

720k floppies.  They call the 720k floppies 1 meg floppies because that is their
unformmated capability.

Chad

    Found the problem we had an infected system........
    
    The ghost virus (no.12) seemed to have affected the disc access
    as well as random the mouse mirror effect.
    
    

    I'm impressed with what Notator can do overall, but one issue
    continually frustrates me - I can never work out the relation of
    768ths to standard music notation notes ie crochets, quavers, etc.
    for setting capture range or other quantisation functions.
    
    Have any of you guys got any hints?
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Ken

    Assuming 1/768 means that quarter notes are divided into 768 pieces,
    the following table holds:
    
    ticks note length
    ----- -----------
     1536 1/2
      768 1/4
      384 1/8
      192 1/16
       96 1/32
       48 1/64
     2304 1/2 dotted
     1152 1/4 dotted
      576 1/8 dotted
      288 1/16 dotted
      144 1/32 dotted
       72 1/64 dotted
     1024 1/2 triplet
      512 1/4 triplet
      256 1/8 triplet
      128 1/16 triplet
       64 1/32 triplet
       32 1/64 triplet
    
    If it's a whole note that is divided into 768 pieces, you get:
    
    ticks note length
    ----- -----------
      384 1/2
      192 1/4
       96 1/8
       48 1/16
       24 1/32
       12 1/64
      576 1/2 dotted
      288 1/4 dotted
      144 1/8 dotted
       72 1/16 dotted
       36 1/32 dotted
       18 1/64 dotted
      256 1/2 triplet
      128 1/4 triplet
       64 1/8 triplet
       32 1/16 triplet
       16 1/32 triplet
        8 1/64 triplet
    
    I hacked the following BASIC program to get these tables...
    
1000 	timebase = 768/4
1001 	firstfraction=2
1002 	lastfraction=64
1003 
1004 	for triplet=0 to 1
1005 		for dotted=0 to 1-triplet
1006 			fraction=firstfraction
1007 			while fraction<=lastfraction
1008 				gosub 1015
1009 				fraction=fraction*2
1010 			next
1011 		next dotted
1012 	next triplet
1013 	goto 1029
1015 	n=fraction
1017 	if triplet=1 then n=n*1.5
1018 	if dotted=1 then n=n/1.5
1019 	f=timebase*4 / n
1020 	print using"#####";f;
1021 	if int(f)<>f then print" ** not representable ** ";
1022 	print " 1/";str$(fraction);
1023 	if dotted=1 then print" dotted";
1024 	if triplet=1 then print" triplet";
1025 	print
1026 	return
1027 
1029 	end
    
    Hope this helps!

Yes

that is 768 ppw or parts per measure.  That gives you 192 ppq.

Chad

    Having started to play with notator a bit, I am concerned with its
    display of syncapated notes. 
    in 4/4 time and quaver, crochet, quaver 
    (is that 1/8, 1/4, 1/8 in US terminalogy)
                               
    Notator always displays the crochet as two tied quavers to indicate
    the start of the second beat.
                               
    While this was standard practise in Haydn and Mozart's time it is
    not modern practise. Is there no way of getting notator to display
    in the modern format considering its use in Pop music.
                               
    Am I doing something wrong.
    
    Regards
    Derek
    
                               
                               

It depends what else is simultaneously going on in that track.  If you have
other stuff in the track like steady quarters or whatever it will do what you
said.

Chad

    re .23
    
    Many thanks for your help.
    
    Ken

    RE .25
    
    Syncopation is an option in Notator (since version 2.1 ?).
    I think you have to select the beamed notes (1/8 in your case)
    and press W or SHIFT-W or ALTERNATE-W (syncopation on).
    The correct way to do this is in the manual. I use it quite
    frequently and it works without any problems (as far as I know).
    
    John.

    re .27
    
    Sure thing. I had to understand precisely what to do with ticks versus
    note lengths for the music programming language I've been working on.
    When I first realized that "triplet-ing" notes and dotting notes were
    inverse functions - I was in awe. If you triplet three dotted notes,
    the triplet-ing and dotting cancel out!!!!!!! (well, it sure impressed
    me at the time.)

    Re .28
    
    Many thanks for your help.
    
    Regards
    
    Derek

    this has to do with creator/notator but not to do with the last
    30 replies.
    
    i've got v2.3 (i think, whatever is the latest prior to v3), and
    i'm looking for hints on assembling my bits, as it were.  let me
    describe the problem: suppose i've got two pieces to play. i've
    saved each piece as a "song" each of which consists of several patterns
    hooked together in the arranger.  i want one song to follow directly
    after the other -- "live", so i figure, rather than me pressing
    a bunch of buttons i'll just use the pseudo-event to load in and
    start the second song during the first.  so in about bar 11 of the
    first one, the second song loads.  then around bar 60, where the
    first one ends, i tell it to switch songs...so what does it do?
     starts the second song in bar 60!  not at bar 1!  clearly an oversight
    (perhaps undersight?) on clabs part.  or maybe i'm not using it
    right?
    
    i realise i could have made one big arrangement, but that wouldn't
    leave too much as far as flexibility (ie suppose i wanted to play
    song 2 followed by song 1).  in fact, the way i've got it, doesn't
    leave too much for flexibility either.
    
    which brings me to the "BIG IDEA".  clab is too complicated in the
    area of sticking together bits.  think about it, you've got tracks
    and patterns and arrangements and songs.  too many things.  it seems
    to me a better model would be like the forth programming language(!).
    you define a word.  if you want a bigger word, you make one definition
    which executes a few little words.  and so on.  so i'd rather see
    this in clab:  you play (or somehow enter) notes into a (for lack
    of a better word) "block".  then you make a bigger block by putting
    two or more blocks together.  then you build bigger and bigger blocks
    like that. eventually you have a block which represents a song.
     and you could make a bigger block containing blocks representing
    songs into a broadway show, or opera, or concert or whatever.
    
    am i all wet?  would this be possible?  would your normal clab user
    find this easier or harder than it currently is?  not, of course
    that my opinion will matter to them, but if no one can spot massive
    cracks in this idea, i'm going to send it off to the developers.
    
    anyone know what's in v3.0?  i've heard the word "hyper-edit", which
    is just the sort of word a company would toss around when trying
    to hype up interest in it's latest version.  what is it?
    
    otherwise, i really like creator/notator (who's going to pay 400
    quid for a piece of software and then say he doesn't really care
    for it?).
    
    i would like to hear those who've used both clab and steinberg
    say which they prefer and why.
    
    			--dd

I've used notator but not cubase.  I like NOtator.  From what I've read about 
Cubase I think I would like that better in the arranging section.  There, each
piece/pattern is only one-track wide (if you so please) and you can have more 
than four simultaneous lists of patterns playing at once.  Anyway, that is how 
it appears to work in the literature/reviews I've read.  What I like is Notators
event-list editing using notation and editing multiple tracks at once.

Now that I've gotten a mac, I need the Vision people (opcode) to get some of 
these good ideas from Cubase and Notator into Vision.

Chad

    Hi!
    
    I received Notator v3.0 on Friday last - but with manual in German (a
    language I do not know).
    
    The main new features seem to be:
    
    Much more flexible printing - fonts are included
    Hyperedit - haven't figured out what this is yet
    
    It also feels as if it runs faster.
    
    Anyone else got any comments?
    
    Rgds,
    
    Ken
    

    Re .33
    
    Hi,
    
    3.0 is about to be delivered here in the Netherlands. Manual
    language choices are German, English, Dutch and French!
    I have seen a demo of 3.0 in september.
    
    - Hyperedit is a new edit facility: it allows you a.o. to 
      change note attributes over a number of bars. Example is
      to increase/decrease volume (crescendo/decrescendo) in small
      steps. Graphical way of editing looks very nice.
    - Page Preview is new too: it allows you to preview a complete printed
      page on the screen before printing, so you can change bar width
      in order to get a logical part to fit on one page.
    - There a some other (smaller) enhancements. I think the arpeggio
      symbol (announced for 2.3) is included now.
    
    
    Regards,
    
    John.
    
    

    If anyone is thinking of selling off their old clab stuff please
    get in touch with me.
    I am just getting into sequencing music on an Atari and it seems clabs
    stuff is the best. Im not into choirs stuff...electronic rock would be
    more my style (drum machines, bass, guitar-y sounds)...
    Is creator or notator more appropriate?
    cheers
    pcv

    It's not available here (yet) in the US (to my knowledge).  Three real
    important questions (to me) are:
    
    1) Can one save printed output to a file?
    2) Can one print PostScript yet?
    3) Do they have a 'Randomize' function available (for say, velocities
    	over a certain range?)
    
    Thanks,
    Dan

    re.-1
    1)	Nope; but I havn't tried Moshe Braner's BARREL. I doubt if that
        would work however, since the C-Lab print routines almost certainly
        clobber anything in the way.
    2)	Nope - no mention of PostScript.
    3)	Yup. It has fairly extensive randomising functions which can be
        applied to most things (eg. velocity, note values,...). It's found 
        in the Transform Page.
    
    re.-<a few>
    I've got the German version also. I'm still trying to work out
    Hyper-Edit. It looks really fancy. I do know that you can form your
    pitch-wheel curve entirely with the mouse - this used to take me much
    time, when say, tailoring a brass octave fall-off.
    
    One interesting new feature (which I was going to suggest to C-Lab):
    "Pattern Overview". This shows all 100 patterns on the screen; which
    ones have stuff in them; and you can select which one you want to go to
    with the mouse. I would like to have seen a chart of "occupancy per
    pattern" display. That way, you could easily tell which pattern was
    hiding the extra 50K !
    
    The printing enhancements are great. "Page preview" saves much
    time/paper.
    
    
    re.-<another few>  (Notator or Creator ?)
    In brief; Creator does the SEQUENCING; Notator does the NOTATION.
    If you have no desire to see/edit/print notation, then you don't need
    Notator. Save yourself the money & get Creator - it's nearly half the
    price !  
    
    Jim Burke

    
      The CLAB Unitor has an extra midi in and two extra midi outs, I was
    thinking of making an interface to provide these extra's without
    having to fork out for a Unitor. Does anyone know at what address
    Notator wants to see these ports ?
    
    ...
    
    

Hello folks,

Does anyone have heard of Notator ALPHA?
It seems to be a reduced version of Notator SL 3.0 which the following
advantages:

	- it is cheaper that Notator SL.
	- it is sufficient for beginners in sequencing.
	- you can get Notator SL later, you just have to pay the difference.
	- it can be run on my old ATARI 520 ST I cannot easily upgrade.

Of course, there must be some important drawbacks.

Any in formation on limitation of Notator ALPHA compared to Notator SL
would be appreciated (or any other comment).

Pierre

    Question;
    
    Would Notator aid the user in learning to read and produce notation? 
    
    
    matty

>>>    Would Notator aid the user in learning to read and produce notation? 
    
    hmmm... I'd say definitely NO! Notator is really like a word processor
    for music - it enables you to produce printed scores the same way you
    would write them yourself on blank manuscript. It doesn't tell you what
    the symbols and notes mean. You certainly can take hints from it's
    examples of how to score out rhythmic figures (which are generally
    pretty good), but, let's face it, a good book on music notation and
    theory is far cheaper and will teach you more!
    
    
     Re. recent question about Notator ALPHA....
    
    I have had this product for a couple of weeks. It's really just a
    cheaper version of Notator aimed at the home market with certain key 
    features removed to make it unacceptable for "professional" work, eg:
    
    Sequencer cannot be sync'd to external midi;
    Cannot demix midi information from single -> separate tracks;
    track global Editing capabilities limited;
    Score edit allows maximum of 4 split staves (as does full score print).
    ... I'm sure there are other "cuts" but I haven't used it long enough.
    
    
    For me, it's ideal, as the notation capabilities appear to be identical
    to that of full Notator, apart from the limit of printing 4 staves on a
    single master score (obvious limitation for orchestral/big band
    arrangers). I compose and arrange for a small band and never even need
    the full 4 staves (I'm sure I will one day though 8*)). I always needed
    notation facilities, but couldn't justify buying full Notator.
    
    The sequencer side is more cut-down than the notation side, but this
    doesn't matter too much to me as I do all my recording on a dedicated
    sequencer. The only parts I need to notate are the tune and harmonies
    and these are easily dumped across (as the sequencer will sync itself
    to Alpha).
    
    FWIW, ALPHA will accept song files produced with full creator/notator,
    which helps if you are collaborating on a project with a notator user.
    
    Tony
    
    

    Tony,
    
    I'm getting a Computer based sequencing package anyway, something like
    ST & Creator.  I just wondered if it would help me to read music by
    being able to see my sequences in notation.  I have this fear that once
    I get used to using other sequencer display formats I will never bother
    to learn to read music.  I thought that spending a further 150 pounds
    on Notator might be worth it.  I've tried the book aproach and I find
    it very difficult.  I find computers to be more fun than bits of paper
    - I hate bits of paper ;-)  (except money!)
    
    I also fancy being able to make up my own chords by ear, and then using
    Notator to tell me what I've just done.  I thought this might be a
    valuable learning experience.
    
    On the other hand 150 pounds will get me quite a few lessons.
    
    
    matty

    Hi Matty, 
    sorry I've not been in here for a few days!
    
>>>    I also fancy being able to make up my own chords by ear, and then using
>>>    Notator to tell me what I've just done.  I thought this might be a
>>>    valuable learning experience.
   
    This is true....
     
>>>    On the other hand 150 pounds will get me quite a few lessons.
   
    This is also very true!
    
    It's one of those "pay yer money, take yer choice" situations. You 
    probably know enough now to make the decision. Good luck!
    
    Tony I
    
                         

    I'm doing a little experiment for a songwriting friend. She is
    considering publishing a book of some of her songs, and wants to see
    what kind of job Notator can do. I have offered to transcribe one of
    the songs into Notator and get it printed off. This type of thing
    evidently needs a laser printer - I have only a 24-pin  printer. 
    
    So, what kind soul has Notator and a laser printer (or DeskJet) ?
    
    Jim Burke	

    welllll --
    
      I'm a kind soul.... and I have a laserprinter.... but I do not have
    Clab Notator... I do have Finale on the MAC... would that help??
    
    'Course if you want to give me Clab Notator......   <wink, wink>
    
     Bruce (who-couldn't-resist)

    re.45 - I have Notator, and Deskjet Plus. If you send me a floppy, I'll be
    happy to make you a print out.
    
    Ken Johnstone@GEC/C502 DTN 821-4522
    Home:
    6 chemin Bord d'Aire,
    1213 Onex
    Geneva
    Switzerland. 

Hello,

I tried yesterday to print a score on a little STAR LC10.
It worked well for the first page, but I didn't manage to get the second one
correctly.

While adjusting the header size, NOTATOR says that one page can contain 
5 systems. But obviously, one page can't contain more than 2 systems (it's
a 4 parts choir score with 4 staves).

Is it possible to tell NOTATOR that a page cannot contain more than 2 systems?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Pierre.

BTW, I use NOTATOR ALPHA, which has not all NOTATOR features.

    Pierre,
    
    You can limit the number of lines of music ("systems") by increasing
    the free space below the lowest stave in your line. This is done by
    grabbing the lower left L bracket and dragging it further down the
    page.
    
    But I suspect the fundamental problem is with the printer driver you
    are using. Is it the correct one for your printer?
    
    Good luck,
    
    Ken

re: .47    Thanks Ken - I'll contact you offline.

re: .48    Pierre - I think .47's pointer to the printer drivers is the
           answer. I also use a dot matrix printer (Brother), and I
           had a lot of trouble configuring a driver. It starts to get
           confusing if you are using "Micro Feeds' and multiple-density
           printhead passes. Check out: Printer Adaption Page (ie. Edit
           Printer Adaption), (page-) LENGTH parameter. 
           
Jim
    

    Can anybody give me the status of Notator v3.1. 
    
    Is it available yet?
    
    What might it contain.
    
    My supplier in the UK has heard of it, but that is about all.....
    
    Regards
    
    Derek
    

	At least in Germany it's available. I got the update 3 weeks ago.

	Main features:

	GAM - an alternative graphical arrange mode

	Support of .IMG format, that allows you to include Notator files into 
	Calamus or 1stWord.

	Single line staves for drums and percussion

	Process note attributes e.g. shift all instances of a certain note in a
	track harmonically

	That's all, what I can recall.

	Hermann-Josef

    Suddenly my Notator will no longer print using the fonts I select. I've
    tried reloading the fonts, and printing, but I just get the tiny
    letters for headings and lyrics that are the default.
    
    My set up is Atari 1040STE with Notator v3.0 printing to HP DESKJET
    PLUS.
    
    Any suggestions anyone? I've tried everything I can think of.
    
    Regards,
    
    Ken

    Ken,
    
    It looks as if you may have GDOS loaded when you bootup your hard disk.
    I had the same problem after installing Timeworks, which created an
    AUTO folder with GDOS in.
    
    The only work round is to shift the AUTO folder somewhere else when
    using NOTATOR
    
    Regards
    
    Derek
     

    I received Notator 3.1 update yesterday:
    
    An overview of new features (from the documentation, I haven't tried
    this):
    
    - Percussion key (small double bar)
    - 3 polyphonic voices on a single stave
    - single-line stave for percussion
    - force horizontal beams for percussion stave
      (other staves will keep sloping beams)
    - change tie direction for single notes
    - independent notes, can be moved
    - disable interpretation for single note
    - change attributes of number of notes
      selection criteria: start and end locator, channel, pitch,
                          velocity and length
      atrributes a.o.: enharmonic shift, force accidental,
                       note head, accent
    - position of tuplet numbers and brackets selectable (above/below)
    - symbol for "repeat last two bars"
    - Sf dynamic symbol
    - tempo indication (e.g. note = 120) for other notes than 1/4
    - possibility to hide time signature changes individually
    - separate font styles for page numbers and repeat endings
    - graphic notes, that do not sound over midi
      with or without slash / ledger lines
      tie direction up/down
      miniature size
    - choice for printing of signature / clef / key
      at beginning of page / each stave / none
    - Print single tracks of a pattern, using header of track 1
    - Goto page in page preview
    - Serial page numbers on output
    - Flip page (if page larger than screen can display, e.g. A3 format)
    - Graphic Arrange Mode: alternative way of arranging
    - GAM Scrub Mode: audible scanning 
    - 32 track patterns
    - Save song to .img format
    
    John.
                                       

    Derek,
    
    Many thanks. You were right. Problem is now fixed!
    
    Ken

    Here are some notes of my experiences in transferring a *large* NOTATOR
    ".IMG" file onto a uVAX. [with small (ie. screen-size) images, it is not
    so problematic]
    
    Basically, what I want to do is:
        *  generate notation on Notator (300 DPI, note),
        *  edit the notation using a graphics editor,
        *  print it on a Postscript printer.
        
1.  Transfer "<file>.IMG" from ST to uVax:-
        (use Kermit, PCDisk,...).

2.  Convert file organisation of file from STREAM_LF to FIXED LENGTH 
    RECORDS:-
        (use FILESET or CVTARC)
        
3.  Convert to Sixel format:-
        (use STCVT. This produces <file>.SIX)
        
4.  Convert to RAGS format:-
        (use RAGS to IMPORT it, and save as a ".GRA" file)
        
5.  Edit the file:-
        (use  RAGS)
    Notes:
     a)  Since the image was written at 300 DPI, it requires about 6 virtual
         screens to display it. That is, on your w/s, you can only view about
         15% of the page.
     b)  If you insert text at say, 24-pt, then by the time it is printed,
         this text is VERY small. It is obviously scaled down.  I'm not sure
         how to get round this.

6.  Convert back to Sixel:-
        (use  RAGS - EXPORT)
    Notes:
     a)  You MUST have access to a MONO display for this to work. Find one,
         and enter:- 
              $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=<node>[/SCREEN=<mono-scr-num>] 
              $ DOCUMENT/GRAPHIC=RENDER/TYPE=SIXEL <file>.GRA
         This caused me some hassle - apparently it is due to a DECwindows
         limitation, not RAGS.
     b)  I attempted to EXPORT to a Postscript file from within RAGS, but it
         would not print. [The .PS file from RAGS looked quite different from
         the .PS file output by UTOX - see below]
        
7.  Convert to Postscript:-
        (use UTOX)

    
    I encountered a few problems, especially since the notation forms a LARGE
    file - about 3500 blocks of Postscript. However, the above seems to work.

Jim Burke

You should be able to skip the last few steps.  If the sixel files
begins with the right introductory escape sequence, you should be able
to just print it to any printserver or CPX printer with
/PARAM=DATA=ANSI, not don't have to convert to PostScript first.  (It
will do that internally, but you don't have to know that.)

            <<< DNEAST::SYS$TOOLS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COMMUSIC.NOTE;2 >>>
             -< * * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * * >-
================================================================================
Note 2803.0                  C-lab  + U20  nightmare                  No replies
GIDDAY::KNIGHTP "do it in dubly"                     14 lines  29-DEC-1991 18:03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi
    	I have just purchased a roland U-20 and am having some problems
    when using it with C-lab.  I bought some sequences done by a guy on
    notator with sys ex files created for a U-220 so all I had to do was
    plug my U20 in and off they went.
    	 The problem is how do I create my own sysex file for a song that
    I create.  I am a novice with C_lab as well as the U20.  But from
    what I understand I have to create a sound patch and then select the
    bank and number buttons for that patch and that dumps in out the midi
    port and then I record it with the Atari.
    	Could someone please type in the exact steps C-Lab would require
    to record a sys exe file.  Also could someone do the same with the U20
    Thanks in advance
    P.K.

    How do you control the overall volume of a sequence on Notator.  I can
    adjust the volume of each track by either the RMG or the compress
    velocity for each track but my problem is the overall loudness.
    	I bought these sequences from someone else and some of the overall
    volumes are way down.  I do not own C-lab but get to use a friends for
    about an 1hr a week so please tolerate this and the previous question
    if they are dumb.
    
    	In regards to the previous question the way he has the sequence 
    structured is 1 sysex  2 song 3 stop  so I guess I just record my new
    sysex file over the top of his by just recording it?
    
    Thanks in advance 
    P.K.

re .60

>>    How do you control the overall volume of a sequence on Notator.  I can
>>    adjust the volume of each track by either the RMG or the compress
>>    velocity for each track but my problem is the overall loudness.

   The RMG allows you to set the volume (or any other controller) for all tracks
   of a certain midi channel. You can also record the movements of the slider.
   If you record these movements into an independent (not used) pattern and 
   put this pattern on top of the others in the arrange window and at an 
   exclusively used level (i.e. this pattern has an unlimited length - I use D),
   set True Volume (it's in the MIDI pull down menu) on. You will get the correct
   volume no matter where you start the playback. 
   Unfortunately, I don't recall a method of controlling the volume of all midi
   channels simultaneously, but I'll check. 


>>    	In regards to the previous question the way he has the sequence 
>>    structured is 1 sysex  2 song 3 stop  so I guess I just record my new
>>    sysex file over the top of his by just recording it?
    
   Yes, you are right. But you should record your SysEx into an empty track of
   pattern 1. Thus you can use your SysEx or the old one alternatively by muting
   and demuting the appropriate tracks in the arrange window. Make shure that you
   send the SysEx during the recording after the count in. Although Notator 
   records everything after you klicked on the record button, it doesn't playback
   anything before song position 1 1 1 1. You eventually have to adjust the 
   length of pattern 1 in the arrange window.

   Hope this helps

   Hermann-Josef

    Re -1.
    Thanks for your reply. Some of the sequences already have a level track
    made and I found out that if I brought up the RMG and clicked the mouse
    on one of the instruments and moved it down a bit and then all the way
    up then I could overide the mix level dne for that track So I remixed
    everything and did what you said by saving it to a blank track and
    naming levels.   But on some sequences that don't have alevels track
    the volume is way down.  What does this true volume do ?
    
    P.K.

  Re.-1
	
  I think there is a misunderstanding. Each slider in the RMG page is associated
  with a certain Midi channel not with a track e.g. if you move slider 3, then 
  the volume of Midi channel 3 is changed. Any track can send data on Midi 
  channel 3. The channel # for each track is set in the pattern window. 
  After you have built a song in the arrange window, you can dynamically set
  the volume of all channels by recording the slider movements into an empty 
  track of an unused pattern (e.g. 99).

  The following is an example setup

      ARRANGE
                | a | b | c | d |
  1 | pattern   |   |   |   |99 |
  1 | pattern   | 1 |   |   |   |
  5 | pattern   | 2 |   |   |   |
  9 | pattern   | 3 |   |   |   |
      :
      :
  n | STOP      | 0 |   |   |   |

  Note: Pattern 1 and 99 start 1.
  Pattern 1 - 3 are the pattern which build up your song. Pattern 99 is an
  unlimited pattern, in which you record your slider movements.

  If you are in the arrange mode and start playback at any song position other
  than 1 1 1 1, the volume levels depend on the last changes sent to the 
  instruments. If you stopped at a certain position and continue at a different,
  then it is very unlikely that the levels are correct. But if True Volume is 
  set on, Notator automatically sends the last changes before your start 
  position. This assures the correct levels no matter where you start your 
  song. 

  If you want to change several levels at a time, you can build groups by
  klicking in the little rectangle just below each slider. All selected
  channel will be changed simultaneously, if one group member is moved.
  If you select all channels and record the movements, a lot a data will be
  generated and you can run out of memory.

  Be aware that many drum machines do not recognize controller 7 data (volume
  changes.

  Hermann-Josef

    Re -1
    
    Thanks for your reply.
    
    	I think I should better explain my problem.
    
    I bought 27 songs from someone.
    25 or so of the songs are at a certain volume. 2 of the songs are
    noticably softer ( will present problem when playing live).
      I have been able to remix the first 25 songs by using RMG and storing
    that imformation in a spare track. I can remix the other 2 songs and
    store the imformation in a spare track but.....even if I set everything
    to maximum it is way to soft.
    
    	So what I am asking is if you were to forget that RMG existed can
    you adjust the volume of everything by another function ?
    
     eg : I think that maybe there is something somewhere that I can adjust
    like a master volume for the sequence otherwise I have to mix 25 songs
    down to the level of these 2.
    
    Thanks for your patience and help
    
    P.K.

    Re .64
    
    I assume that the 2 remaining songs do not use completely different
    instruments, with a softer sound.
    
    Probably, in the case of these remaining 2 songs, the volume of the
    individual notes is far lower than in the other songs. 
    Try to find out if this is the case. You can see this by comparing
    value -2- in the event screen for NOTE events. If this is true, you could 
    try to use the TRANSFORM function to ADD e.g. a value of 10 or 20
    to value -2- (volume) of each NOTE event. Using the MULTI option, you
    can do this simultaneously for each track in a pattern.
    
    As far as I know, there is no master volume option.
                                              
    John.

	I have been considering STACY for some time, but I think I'll wait on the 
NoteBook now, in the light of the following:-
	I was in a major music shop in Glasgow (Scotland) and was speaking to the
salesman who happens to be an acquaintance (luckily ?). His story was that he had only 
supplied ONE STACY to date (Jan-92). This was to Courtney Pine, for use as a
sequencer (Notator). Apparently CP had terrible noise and crashing problems with 
it, including a Prince session, and touring gigs !  "severely embarrassing" was 
the phrase. The salesman contacted the suppliers and was told that this was a 
known problem with MIDI software - no solution.
	I never heard this before, but it seems that it wasn't just a faulty 
machine, but an inherent problem. 

..thought you'd like to know...

Jim

    
    
    You know, this explains a lot!  I bet Prince's tailor uses one of these
    (Stacy) also...
    
    

    
    
    Notator goes for $510 and Notator Alpha goes for $299 out here.  How
    does Boston stack up?
    

    re: .-2
    		Warning: if you've got a US TOS, then get the US version of
    Notator. I have both German & English versions, and they are NOT the
    same.
    
    re: .-1
    		That's a good $$ price - cheaper than DMarks or Pounds.
    
    Jim
    

Re .70, what do you mean "not the same"?  Does this mean that they won't run
under the non-language-equivalent TOS?  Less functionality in one or the other?

One further question.  Is Notator Alpha upgradable to full Notator if I decide
that I need the additional staves for full scoring at some point?

Thanks,
Cheryl

re: .71

>> I have says that Notator Alpha fully supports the clock for MIDI out but not
>> for MIDI in.  Does this mean that I have to put all the timing info in by hand?

Notator alpha is able to record any MIDI information on the MIDI in of the ATARI,
ie NOTES ON, NOTES OFF, SYSEX info, ...

To record what you play on your keyboard, you have to set on Notator Alpha a
tempo and to play on your keyboard at that tempo (note that you can have a tempo
click sent on any MIDI channel (like a metronome)).

You can then edit the score and print it. Note that you cannot print and/or edit
more than 4 "parts": for example, if you're writing something for an SATB choir and
piano, you won't be able to print the 4 choir parts and the piano on the same
score.

I hope this help.

Pierre

Thanks, Pierre, that is exactly the question I was asking.  I am not so 
concerned about the restriction to four parts for the moment, but can I upgrade
later if this is too restricting?

Cheryl

    Cheryl,
    
    Upgrade:  Yes, there is definitely an upgrade path from Alpha to
    	      Notator. However, from what you describe, I reckon that Alpha
    	      would be sufficient for your needs.
    
    Versions: The German & UK versions are functionally identical, and both
              are in English. However, the file sizes are slightly
              different. Also, I have had 'hanging' & screen corruption
              problems with running the German version on a UK machine.
    	      I do know for a fact that German and UK versions of TOS are
              NOT the same - some German utilities simply will not run on a
              UK machine. Racist or clever marketing/engineering ?  (;-)
    
    Go for Alpha - you'll be surprised at the functionality and also
    robustness. Remember that it is a stripped-down version of Notator,
    which has undergone several releases over a large user base, so it is 
    not a "V1.0" product.
    
    Jim 
    

>    Upgrade:  Yes, there is definitely an upgrade path from Alpha to
>    	      Notator. However, from what you describe, I reckon that Alpha
>    	      would be sufficient for your needs.
    
>    Go for Alpha - you'll be surprised at the functionality and also
>    robustness. 
    
    Did anyone else besides get confused momentarily as to what kind
    of Alpha was being talked about?
    
    ;-)
    
    	db