Conference napalm::commusic_v1

	I'm tellin' ya, I am not happy with my Teac!  Mine is about seven or
eight years old, single with Dolby B/dbx, and was a fairly high ranking model
back in thoze daze, with APS and auto reverse.  Anyway, the playback is OK,
but recording off it absolutely sucks.  I've tried every type and brand tape,
and it still comes out fuzzy and sounding like a massive low-pass drained all
the cymbals.  And it isn't recent.  It's been like this for as long as I can
remember (Dad had it before I did).  S'pose I should take it in, but by the 
time they look up the service manual for it I'll have made enough money to 
buy another...but probably without dbx.  I thought it was a good idea.

--mike--

    In defense of TEAC, my ~10 year old F-300 (single, no metal, Dolby
    B) is great. A real workhorse. But my newer xxx-450 is a real
    bow-wow...
    
    But where's *anyone's* dbx???
    
    Edd

    Gee Edd,
    
    I bought my AIWA which has dbx, Dolby C and (boo!!!) B AND HX-Pro
    at Lechmere's for $299.   It has a lot of other features: it's
    a dubbing deck, blank skip, music search, auto-reverse, etc.
    
    Now, that was on sale, but they do seem to put this unit on sale
    about once a month.
    
    Did they have this unit where you looked?  If not, look in the
    Pheasant Lane Mall in Nashua, NH.  They had it as recently as
    a week ago.
    
    	db
    
    p.s.  And if you're actually gonna do that, let me know when you'll
     	  be up here.  I'll meet you for coffee and Mrs. Field's.

    Nope, like I said, only *1* unit I saw (outta maybe 60-80) had
    dbx and it was over $500. 
    
    But admittedly, I only did a quick scan over dubbing dex. For some,
    probably foolish, reason they don't sit well with me... I should
    probably change that attitude.
    
    Edd

    
    
    Funny thing. Musta been the position of the planets or something.
    Among other things, I bought a dubbing deck this weekend too. Dolby
    B and C, though... The other decks have dbx but their transports
    are pretty poor, including the Porta-two.
    
    /pjh

dbx (the company) has been bought out.  Don't know who bought them.
The rumor is that noise reduction product lines will be continued;
licensing etc. is probably an issue.

    DBX was bought out by BSR/ADC.  That's why you've seen so many new
    consumer/home stereo type toys with the DBX name on them, such as
    CD disks, amps, etc.  From what I hear, they are relocating the
    operation from Newton, Ma. to someplace on the Pacific side this
    summer.  Could be the interest in consumer type products has dulled
    the emphasis on pro toy development.  But still, I wonder if they
    could use some help packing?   Maybe a great yard sale?.....Jon.......

    Edd, I just went through the new tape player blues...
    
    AKAI makes 4 decks with dbx, dolby b and c, the specs are phenominal!
    20-21hz with 80db sn ratio dolby c! priced $350 and up, Crutchfield
    mail order.
    
    Techniques makes decks with dbx, a real nice dubbing deck with dbx,
    dol b and c for $399 (Illinoise audio carries this mail order Chicago
    area info has their number)
    
    I bought a pioneer CT-1380wr had dolby b and c good specs and a price
    I could afford.           
    
    I have these phone numbers if you like...
    
    dbII

    re .8
    
    Technics deck with dbx. I have one, and boy is the transport messed
    up. Does anyone know how to fix a deck which, over time, has SPED
    UP? This guy is now going about 1 ips too fast!
    
    I've heard many complaints about Technics transports. Unfortunately,
    I heard them all after I bought the deck.
    
    dp

    Shouldn't be a problem as long as you always use that deck...
    
    Edd

    Both of the decks I've surgerized have had a strobe pattern pasted
    to the capstan flywheel.  Just turn out the incandescent lights,
    turn on a fluorescent light, and adjust until the spokes of the
    60 Hz pattern appear not to move.
    
    That's all!
    
    	-Bill 

    
    re: .-1
    
      whose decks??? I haven't seen that on mine. I'd put one on if
    I could find one.
    

    60 Hz is not reliable from some power grids.  In college radio we
    had a line monitor that had a transformer with some resonating
    prongs.  The prongs were marked 60, 59.9 maybe, 60.1, etc. from
    about 55 to 65, or whatever.  It was usually 60 hertz, but may
    not be reliable.
    Tom

Power line frequency is very reliable over a *long term*, but not very
reliable over a short term.  Check at different times of day.  Frequency
is most likely to be low during times of heavy usage, but it can happen
at other times too.

And don't try to drive anything off the vertical retrace signal of a TV
set - that isn't 60.00 Hz either if you are watching a color station.

    ...so Eddie bites the bullet and buys hisself a nice Yamaha 
    deck, sans dbx.
                                                                
    Sounds fine, except for one thing....
    
                      THE DAMN THING RUNS SLOW!!!
    
    Of course this wasn't obvious until I made a tape and played it
    on the studio deck where I found the pitch to be 12c sharp. Some
    sine wave tests confirmed it last night.
    
    Question for some overpaid math whiz: What speed is the new deck
    running at if a tone played back at 1.875 ips is 12c sharp? (I just
    love returning things armed with facts.)
    
    Actually, the results of the test last night weren't that shocking
    to me, hindsight being 20-20. Since day 1, whenever I used the deck
    I could detect the faint odor of over-heated electronics and the
    case seemed warmer than expected, as if the motor was under some
    sort of higher load than it was rated for...
    
    Edd

    Y-word...
    
    Where does that factor into the computation???? ;^)
    
    Edd

    Your motor is exactly 1% slow...
    
    I think.
    
    	-Bill

    grrrr.....
    
    "Hi, I bought this deck here last 
    week and I'm not happy with it."
    
                                                "What's the problem?"
                                         
    "It runs too slow. I verified this by
    recording a digitally controlled sine
    wave and then comparing the input and
    output signals. Predictably, they were
    exact. I then moved the tape to *two*
    known good decks and played back the
    sine wave. In each case, the resulting
    tone was 12/100 of a semitone sharp."
    
                                              "I better get the manager..."
    
    ...so the manager proceeds to hook the deck up to their "reference
    system" and throws a tape in.
    
                                              "Sounds OK to me..."
    
    "No doubt. You have no reference tone."
    
                                              "I can record..."
    
    "Nope, won't work unless you play it
    back on a different deck..."
    
                                              "Well, you know these
                                               units *do* have certain
                                               tolerances."
    
    "Sure, I expect it. This particular
    unit is just too far off to be of
    any use to me."
    
    So, I ended up taking the floor model to try at home tonight. (I
    agreed to this. They explained if it *was* a design problem they'd
    prefer to not have a stockroom full of opened boxes as a result
    of my experiments. No problem with me; If I get 2 in a row with
    speed problems I don't want a third.)
    
    I also got my "no hassle" money back gaurantee extended 2 days.
    
    Edd
    
    P.S. Bill, did you say in a previous note that these motors were
         tweakable??       

    
    re: .-1
    
      Edd, both Bill and I said it. Bill said he uses the strobe markings
    to setup his timing. I use reference tones.
    
      The motor should have it's speed control on the back of it. There
    has to be a speed calibration setting *somewhere* in the box, and
    I haven't seen it off the motors on 'home' decks in years.
    
    /pjh

    I've no qualms about discretely opening my "no user serviceable
    parts inside" unit and doing some tweaking. This, in itself,
    doesn't void warrantee. Telling them you did it does. ;^)
    
    Is this just a hole of some sort in the motor? Stick the plastic
    thing in and turn till all's cool?? I imagine it must be readily
    accessable (usually), no??        
    
    Edd

    Ha, I got the second unit home (after returning the demonstrator)
    and it was WORSE!! Off by about 20c...
    
    I just said to hell with it. I verified that my TEAC was within
    acceptable limits, recorded a 3 minute test tone on the TEAC,
    moved the tape to the Yamaha and 0-beat the thing into submission.
    
    Easy as pie...
    
    Edd

    
    re: .-1
    
      I take it that you found the hole in the back of the motor then?
    
    /pjh

    Yep, it was just sitting begging to be tweaked.
    
    There was also one on the fast wind motor. While the thought of
    a 15 second rewind time IS appealing, I decided against it...
    
    Edd

Edd,

You may find that the motor control circuitry is not consistent. That is a
problem I had with a supposedly high-end Technics deck. If the motor speed
is not servo controlled to a precise degree, you will notice that the
tape speed varies depending upon...

1. temperature
2. humidity
3. line voltage
4. quality of cassette
5. position on tape, mechanical advantage has an effect
6. tape transport mechanism wear, cleanliness, lubrication
7. tightness of tape winding on spool

You will probably have to keep close tabs on performance, and perhaps
calibrate before each usage. Also, I suggest warming up the unit for
20 minutes by playing back a tape. Try to keep the ambient temperature
and humidity fairly constant if possible. When using a new tape for the
first time, it is a good idea to fast forward the tape all the way to
the end, and then rewind. This insures a consistent tension on the drive
arms and capstan.

good luck,

dave

    Thanks Dave.
    
    One would think that after all these years, they could get a motor
    to turn at 1.875+/- an acceptable ETL (Edd Tolerance Level).
    
    Gheeesh, I can even get out those nasty rings!!
    
    Edd

    
    Here's what I've read in Recording engineer and Producer:
    
    Carillon technology has acquired dbx and has restructured the companies
    business operations.

    Production and manufacturing facilities will be mobed to the West
    Coast; markenting, sales and engineering will stay in Boston.
    
    ADC has been renamed Audio Dynamics, and will be moved to San Bruno,
    CA, where Carillon is based.