Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Did they give you a price quote on the D-110 rack mount?
    
    		Derek

>    Did they give you a price quote on the D-110 rack mount?

The standard price will be $999. When they become more available, there may
be a special DECMS price at Wurly's.

dave

    Well blow me down. U.K. price 785 for the D10 and 575 for the D110!
    
    Is this a record?
    
    Richard.

    My salesman told me that the D1[1]0 carts were physically the same
    as the D5[5]0, but that the format was different.  I didn't try
    it, but...
    
    Steph
    

    The D-50 cards are physically the same but are NOT compatible with
    the D-10. 
    
    With only a three hundred dollar difference between the D-50 and D-10
    what architectural differences /features would make you choose a D-10
    over the D-50? 
    

    I own a D-50. In reading about the D-10, all I see are improvements,
    and it cost less. I'm curious as to what the differences are,
    i. e. what doesn't the D-10 have that the D-50 has? From reading
    the notes so far, it looks like I should trade my D-50 in for a
    D-10.
    
    Bill

    D-50 has more partials available *per patch* than D-10.

    D-10 is poly-timbral, D-50 is not (or bi, can't remember which).

-b

>    D-50 has more partials available *per patch* than D-10.

>    D-10 is poly-timbral, D-50 is not (or bi, can't remember which).

My experience is also that the D50 has a cleaner sound.

Chad

	I've heard it said that the D-10 is more likened to the MT-32 than the
D-50.  It seemes to have a lot of similarities (multi-timbral, drum sounds...).
If the *sound-generating* circuitry is the same as the MT-32, the purists among
us will say keep the D-50.

	Dan

	The D-50 has more patch modification capabilities than the D-10(20).
Also there is some difference in the reverb.

	The D-50 is bi-tambral (...or you could spell it timberal, or you
could spell it tamberil, or you could spell it tambril, or you...)

	Dan

BTW:  How do you spell it?

I spent some time with the D110 last night while the Celtics were busy
blowing it. Here are some first impressions...

1. I connected the D110 to my D50 to use the D50 as the mother board controller.
   The MC500 was also involved. The MIDI path is ...


   
---------------              --------------             ---------------
|             |MIDI     MIDI |            |             |             |
|             |<-------------|            |             |             |
|             |In       Out  |            |             |             |
|             |              |            |             |             |
|             |MIDI     MIDI |            |MIDI    MIDI |             |
|    D50      |------------->|    MC500   |------------>|    D110     |
|             |Out       In  |            |Out       In |             |
---------------              --------------             ---------------

Set the MC500 MIDI parameter "Soft Thru" to ON so that you can play the
D110 from the D50, the MC500 sequenced tracks, or both simultaneously.
This lets you layer the D50 and D110 live and play over a sequence playback
on the MC500. ( Sorry if this seems trivial to MIDI gurus, but it was a
new experience for me so I thought it might be useful ).

2. There is a fairly decent Acoustic Piano patch. I would call it a Rag Time
   Honky-Tonk upright grand Scott Joplin here we come kind of sound. Very
   convincing when played in this style. I sequenced the first page of
   Maple Leaf Rag and it sounds great. An interesting aside to this is that
   Scott Joplin music as written is very stiff and mechanical. The microscope
   edit feature on the MC500 is invaluable for editing the attack velocity
   of the MIDI note events to get more expression. The articulation percentage
   of step programmed notes needs to be varied frequently, and a syncopation
   factor needs to be added to get a realistic feel. Otherwise it is very
   mechanical sounding; too perfect. There is a Tuba patch and of course the
   drum kit, so I am planning on adding a Tuba bass track and drum rhythm
   track to get that "Sting" band concert in the gazebo effect.

3. Some of the patches have some grundgy "digital" noise, especially the
   organ. Others are clean and quiet. When everything is put in the proper
   musical context, such as the 8 song chain built-in ROM demo, the sound
   is wonderful. There is a nice horn lead patch, bass patches, excellent
   flutes, strings not too nice, drums ok, good (but noisy) organ, breathy
   wind instruments, some f/x, etc.

4. There are assignable partials for each patch, from 1 to 4. The D50 always
   reserves space for 4 each patch, even if you don't use them all. On the
   D110 there are 13 possible structures (7 on D50), and 8 reverbs (32 on D50).

5. I was comparing my sound system with the one at Wurly's. I was wondering why
   there was so much noise in my system (hiss and hum) compared to the store.
   I discovered that even when the Tascam M216 mixer outputs were off that I
   still had the noise. It turned out to be the DOD graphic EQ. I patched it
   out of the system and presto! silence and nothing but clean sound, no
   background noise. With these synths, graphic EQ is not necessary, and in my
   case added lots of disgusting hiss. I haven't found a use for the graphic
   EQ yet. The parametrics on the board do just fine.

6. Different groups of patches seem to be assigned to different MIDI channels.
   The drum kit shows up on channel 1 in the higher band/patch range. Others
   are assigned to channels 2 thru 10. I haven't found anything on 11 thru 16
   yet. Time to start reading the manual I guess. It came with a nice thick
   manual similar to the MC500 advanced user manual.

more later,

dave

Question for D-10/D-110 buffs:

Can the D-10 keyboard be "separated" from the D-10 multi-timbral synth?
In other words, can you drive the multi-timbral synth from an external
sequencer over MIDI (via MIDI IN), and at the same time use the keyboard
in a "local off" mode just to send notes to other modules (via MIDI OUT)?

.........
Why I would like this:

I need a sound source in the D-110 range of capability. That is, I need all
those percussion sounds and all that multi-timbral capability.

I also need a velocity sensitive keyboard controller.

I prefer to keep these two functions separate, so that I can compose
and sequence basic tracks with the sound source, then use the controller to
sequence other parts with other modules on top of that.

So I thought maybe a D-10 could do this for me, in place of a D-110/Keyboard
Controller combination.

Any input appreciated,

Thanks,
/Mitch

   So, what is the cheapest price you've seen yet on a D110?

   thanks

  CHad

Here is some information about the D110 architecture that I found useful to
summarize in one place. While the documentation is very good at defining all
these terms and showing how they logically relate to one another with
pictures, it doesn't show which heirarchical pieces can be used in others
and which are online via MIDI (and how) all in one place very well. I may
have some mistakes here. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I have not shown any references to how one creates tones from partials.
I don't have any interest in that (right now). The information given here
really just helps one to *access* all of his instruments more quickly and
easily.

Good Luck, it's a jungle out there,
/Mitch


Roland D-110 Architecture

Tones                                          Timbres                     
  .---.  .---.  .---.   .---.   .---.            .---.  .---.  .---.  .---.
  |1  |  |1  |  |1  |   |1  |   |1  |            |1  |  |1  |  |1  |  |1  |
  |   |  |   |  |   |   |   |   |   |            |   |  |   |  |   |  |   |
  |   |  |   |  |   |   |   |   |   |            |   |  |   |  |   |  |   |
  |   |  |   |  |   |   |   |   |   |            |   |  |   |  |   |  |   |
  |   |  |   |  |   |   |   |   |   |            |   |  |   |  |   |  |   |
  |   |  |   |  |   |   |   |   |   |            |   |  |   |  |   |  |   |
  |   |  |   |  |   |   |   |   |   |            |   |  |   |  |   |  |   |
  |64 |  |64 |  |64 |   |64 |   |64 |            |64 |  |64 |  |64 |  |64 |
  `---'  `---'  `---'   `---'   `---'            `---'  `---'  `---'  `---'
    a      b      r       i       c               IA     IB     CA     CB  
                          |       |              `----------'  `----------'
                          `-------'             Pgrmble,             |     
                               Card Xferable    Can be programmed    |     
  `------------------'  `---'                   into Patches.        |     
         Preset         Pgrmble                       |              |     
                `-----------'                         `--------------'     
                   Can be used in Rythm Setup            Card Xferble      
  `-------------------------'                    `------------------------'
  Can be programmed into Timbres                 On-line via MIDI part channel
                                                 program change messages but
                                                 only all internal (I, 1-128)
                                                 or all card (C, 1-128). 

Patches                                          Rythm Setup         
  .---.  .---.                                     .---.  .---.      
  |1  |  |1  |                                     |1  |  |1  |      
  |   |  |   |                                     `---'  `---'      
  |   |  |   |                                       I      C        
  |   |  |   |                                     `---'    |        
  |   |  |   |                                    Pgrmble   |        
  |   |  |   |                                       |      |        
  |   |  |   |                                       `------'        
  |64 |  |64 |                                     Card Xferable     
  `---'  `---'                                                       
    I      C                                       `---'             
  `---'    |                                        Online via MIDI  
 Pgrmble   |
    |      |
    `------'
  Card Xferable

 `------------'
  Online via MIDI system channel program change messages (1-128)

D-110 Comments/ FB-01 Comparison
---------------------------------
One of the good  things  about  the  Roland  D-110  is  that  it's 8
  "instruments" are available over 8 separate MIDI channels and that
  each  of  the  8 instruments can  play  ANY  of  the  128  timbres
  available by sending a program change message on that instrument's
  channel.  And the dynamic "voice" allocation scheme means that you
  don't  have to pre-allocate any specific number of voices  to  any
  particular instrument.

In  a  sense,  the  D-110  "user  interface"  (via  MIDI)  is like 8
  "virtual" instruments.

Now, with  the  FB-01  on  the  other hand, each instrument only has
  access to the  48  voices  that  resides in the current voice bank
  (without  using  sysex).    And  since  it  doesn't  have  dynamic
  allocation,  you  must  pre-assign a  number  of  voices  to  each
  instrument.

The  FB-01  "user  interface"  (via  MIDI),then,  is    a    pre-set
  "configuration"  within which (typically) 2 or 3 instruments  each
  with 2 or 3 voices available are accessed.  Setting up and storing
  these  configurations  for  each  song  requires  front  panel and
  possibly sysex librarian operations.

(Can anyone describe how what  the TX81Z "user interface" looks like
  in this regard?  I would  really  like to know.  It could possibly
  replace my FB.)

I have decided  that  I  no  longer  want to deal with multi-timbral
  devices which do  not present the user with "virtual" instruments.
  So, these days, my  FB01  is  only  being  used  as a mono-timbral
  instrument with access to 48  of  my favorite FB01 sounds. (It's a
  good thing that I just discovered the battery backup switch on the
  back of the FB01 so that I can keep my favorite voices in one bank
  and so it powers up with that bank  selected.)   Now  I  no longer
  touch the FB's front panel at all.

There is a catch to the above D-110 description  above.    That  is,
  with a memory card in place, you *can* actually have access to 128
  *additional* timbres,  but each virtual instrument only has access
  to the internal  128  exclusive-or  the memory card 128.  (This is
  where it gets a  little complicated, refer to D-110 graphics in an
  earlier reply).  The D-110  does in fact have the equivalent of FB
  "configurations",  but  they're  called "patches" and  they  *are*
  accessible   with   simple  program  change  messages   over   the
  system channel (instead of sysex messages like the  FB).    So you
  can either have SIMPLE access to 128 timbres, or if you're willing
  to  also  maintain  a  set  of  "patches" and corresponding "patch
  change  command  sequences",  then  you  can  have  access  to  an
  additional 128  timbres.   So far I've been happy with just SIMPLE
  access to 128 timbres on each of the 8 instruments.  I'm getting a
  memory card, though, to  see  if  it becomes more rewarding to use
  the additional timbres.


D-110 Sounds
------------
I am quite happy with the following type sounds:
basses, synths, horns, drums, percussion, electric pianos, special
effects, brasses, flutes, harps.

The following type sounds leave something to be desired:
acoustic pianos, strings, human voices ("Ahh").

These observations are based on non-layered sounds. I suppose the
strings and human voices can be made to sound better by layering them
in "patches".


/Mitch

>The  FB-01  "user  interface"  (via  MIDI),then,  is    a    pre-set
>  "configuration"  within which (typically) 2 or 3 instruments  each
>  with 2 or 3 voices available are accessed.  Setting up and storing
>  these  configurations  for  each  song  requires  front  panel and
>  possibly sysex librarian operations.
>
>(Can anyone describe how what  the TX81Z "user interface" looks like
>  in this regard?  I would  really  like to know.  It could possibly
>  replace my FB.)



    The  TX81Z "user  interface"  (via  front-panel controls or MIDI) is a 
    user-definable "configuration"  within which (typically) 2 or 3 
    instruments  each typically with 2 or 3 voices are accessed.  Up to 
    8 voices may be so configured and the configuration is not 'virtual'.  
    That is, each timbre gets as many voices as are assigned to it and
    there is basically no dynamic allocation of voices.  (An exception to this
    is a mode which assigns notes to voices in sequential fashion.)  Setting 
    up and storing these configurations for each song requires front
    panel, patch change and possibly sysex librarian operations.
    
    FWIW - Sounds to me like the TX is a *lot* more flexible than the FB.
    
    
    Steve

>There is a catch to the above D-110 description  above.    That  is,
>  with a memory card in place, you *can* actually have access to 128
>  *additional* timbres,  but each virtual instrument only has access
>  to the internal  128  exclusive-or  the memory card 128. 

...and what a pain it is to get the thing to even work this way. I'm not
quite sure how I am able to do it. I just keep hitting the buttons till
it happens.

I must be doing something wrong. Anyone know a good Roland telephone number
to ask questions over?

-----------
What I mean is, after you select a "patch" (fb configuration equivalent)
which says that instruments 6,7,8 should select a voice from the memory card
instead of from the internal memory, you get the memory card voices. But then,
as soon as you send a program change message on that channel, it reverts to
using internal memory voices on that channel.

Now the manual says that 'if the instrument on that channel is using a memory
card voice, then a program change message will select a memory card voice
on that channel (while if it is using an internal voice, the message would
invoke an internal voice)'. But this is not what's happening, at least not
after you call up a 'patch'.

I have been able to get this to happen after pushing lot's of buttons and
going into and getting out of lot's of modes. Specifically, I think I can
get it to happen after I 'edit' an instrument, but I can't even be sure.
And even this will go away as soon as you select a 'patch'.

The whole thing really is quite frustrating. The front panel user interface
is real bad.

/Mitch

    Off the USENET, the following D-110/MT-32 comparison.
    
    len.
    
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
    Newsgroups: rec.music.synth
Path: decwrl!ucbvax!pasteur!ames!mailrus!cornell!batcomputer!itsgw!steinmetz!ge-dab!ge-rtp!edison!mfs
Subject: The Roland D110; a review and comparison to the MT-32
Posted: 12 Aug 88 16:45:41 GMT
Organization: 
 
Since there seems to be alot of interest in the Roland MT-32 and D110
synths on the net lately, and since I have both, I thought I would share
some of my impressions of how the D110 improves on the MT design.
 
First of all, as I'm sure all of you know, the MT and D110 are multi-
timbral boxes with no keyboards.  They both seem to have the nearly the
same architecture, although Roland decided to rename some of the blocks
of parameters inside the D110, just to keep everyone confused :).  For
the most part though, the D110 is a 'turbo' MT.
 
Externally, the D110 is a nice thin rackmount job with an internal power
supply.  The front panel sports a volume knob, 16 push buttons, a two line
backlit LCD display and a headphone jack.  It also has a slot for one of
those slim little memory cards.  On the back are MIDI in, out and thru
jacks, 6 assignable outputs and a set of stereo outputs. This is an obvious 
improvement over the MTs 'clock radio' design for mounting the unit and
allows a more flexible audio output arrangement.
 
The buttons on the front provide a way to program everything in case you
don't have access to a computer and patch editing software.  While this
is great, it is kind of tedious to enter sounds this way as Roland did
away with the nice 'alpha dial' kind of thing that some of their other
synths have.  Of course, since the MT was not programmable at all from the
front panel, this is a vast improvement.  Also, unlike the MT, the D110 
has a lithium battery, so you don't lose everything when you power down 
the thing. (don't ya hate it when that happens ? :)
 
Circuit-wise, the D110 has a smaller chip count than the MT and
seems to run the internal processor (an Intel 8097) in 8 bit bus mode vs 
the MT's 16 bit mode. (It's selectable in the 8097, weird huh ? )  I
say this cause I only saw one socketed 27C256 inside, unlike the MT
which has two.  I haven't dissassembled the code inside yet, but it
should be neat to see what's going on in there and how close it is to
the MT's firmware.
 
The analog circuitry has been *greatly* improved.  I always thought
I had a 'quiet' MT, but the D110 is an order of magnitude better. 
 
To go along with the new analog section, the D110 lets you assign any of 
the internal 'parts' (at least Roland kept that term the same)
to any of the 6 mono outputs or the stereo mix.  Parts sent thru these
outputs are removed from the stereo mix and are not effected by the reverb.  
Incidentaly, the reverb on the D110 has eight selections instead of the 4
offered on the MT and has also been cleaned up (noise-wise) considerably.
 
The basic parameter blocks inside the D110 are almost identical to the ones
in the MT, except that they are named differently.  In case you are unfamiliar
with these, the following gives a brief rundown of the functional sections:
 
The smallest unit of sound generation is called a partial.  Four partials 
are grouped together to form a tone.  A timbre is made up of a tone plus 
several performance parameters. A patch is a group of eight timbres, reverb
settings and a rhythm setup.
 
First of all, lets look at a partial.  Each one of these is made up of
a Waveform Generator (WG), Time Variant Filter (TVF) and a Time Variant
Amplifier (TVA).  Each of these blocks has several parameters and a five
stage envelope generator associated with it.  The WG has controls which
affect the coarse and fine pitch, select the waveform (sawtooth, square
and PCM #) and control the amount of envelope effect.  The TVF parameters
include cutoff frequency, resonance, velocity sensitivity, several keyfollow
parameters and a five stage envelope generator (the last stage of the
envelope is fixed as the sustain level and release time).  The TVA has an
overall level adjustment, velocity sensitivity controls and a five stage
envelope.
 
Partials can be one of two types: Synth or PCM partials.  In the Synth
partials, all of the above mentioned blocks are active.  You can set up
a sawtooth on the WG, filter it with the TVF and adjust the volume with
the TVA.  In a PCM partial, instead of using the standard square or
sawtooth kind of waveform, a sampled waveform is selected.  Some of these
samples are looped so they sustain, while others only sound during the
initial attack of a note.  Also, in a PCM partial, the TVF has no effect. 
 
Perhaps the best improvement over the MT-32 is in the PCM section.  The
D110 has a *much* better selection of PCM waveforms.  Instead of the
128 found in the MT, the D110 has two banks (256 total) of PCM waveforms.
Also, the MT really only has about 30-40 really useful ones, while the
D110 has well over a hundred that are really great.  Included are 30
rhythm PCMs, 41 Attack PCMs, 36 looped PCMs (including male and female
voice loops) and 16 'release' PCMs.  In the other bank are the now
famous 'repeat' and 'jam' PCMs which are not real useable, but fun.
 
Partials are combined into blocks called tones.  Each tone is made up of
two pairs of partials.  These pairs are combined by setting a parameter
called a structure.  The structure tells the partials what kind they are 
(Synth or PCM) and how their output is combined.  Depending on the structure
setting, the partials can be set up as 2 synth partials, a PCM partial
and a synth partial, 2 PCM partials, stereo PCM/synth partials (one partial
out the left and one out the right) and ring modulated synth and/or PCM 
partials.  Very flexible.
 
Like the MT-32, the D110 has 128 tones (called timbres in the MT) stored
in ROM.  It also has room to store 64 more tones in internal RAM.  An
additional 32 or 64 tones can be stored on RAM card.
 
The next block in the D110 is called a timbre (was called a patch in the MT)
There are 128 storage locations in the D110.  Each timbre cooresponds to a
MIDI program change number and contains several parameters.  The first tells
which tone is assigned to it: Bank A 1-64, Bank B 1-64, Rhythm tones 1-64
internal tones 1-64 or memory card tones 1-64.  The second is the keyshift
parameter which allows the tone to be adjusted up or down by 24 half steps.
The fine tune, bend range and output assign (stereo mix or individual outs)
can also be adjusted for each timbre.  So, when you send a MIDI program
change to a particular channel, the D110 goes and looks in this timbre
map, pulls out the sound you have selected, sets the keyshift etc and places
all this in the part associated with that MIDI channel.  Simple huh ?
 
Now we come to the last block of parameters, patches.  This is something
which didn't exist in the MT.  Patches are sort of like global setups.
You specify a reverb setting, the desired timbres for each part and a rhythm
setup.  You then give this a name and save it in one of 64 locations.  Now,
by selecting that particular patch, you will load all the parts with the
timbres you specified, set the reverb and pull in the rhythm setup.  All
with one command.  Neat huh ?
 
Amazingly (considering all the incompatibility problems Yamaha has), my
MT-32 patch editor works great on the D110.  There are a few things that
you can't get to, but most everything works just fine.  I am told the
D-10 and the D-20 are compatible as well.  Them Roland guys got their
shit together.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
All in all, the D110 is a great machine.  Combine it with an MT or another
multi-timbral unit and you can have a desktop orchestra for minimum bucks.
With just my MT and D110, I can have layered drum sounds, and fill all the
MIDI channels !
 
Several of the patch producers in the back of keyboard (including me) are
selling sounds and setups, so there is no shortage of good tones for this
box.  Also, once you get the hang of it, the D110 is pretty easy to program.
 
Oh yeah, the price.  I ordered mine from Sam Ash (1 800 4SAM ASH) and
it cost $697 and was at my door in less than a week (I live in VA).  The
first one had a screwed up display, so I called and got a return authorization
number and shipped it back.  I had a new one in a week.  Great mail order
place.  
 
Hope you enjoyed this rather long winded description.  If ya have any 
questions, corrections, or wanna trade some patches (er, tones..)  e-mail me.
 
 
Martin
 
mfs@edison.GE.COM
 
Rt 8, Box N55,
Charlottesville, VA 22901

>To go along with the new analog section, the D110 lets you assign any of 
>the internal 'parts' (at least Roland kept that term the same)
>to any of the 6 mono outputs or the stereo mix.  

Moreover, each "key" of the drum setup (each single drum sound) can also be
individually assigned to any of the 6 mono outputs. This is great, of course,
for sending snares separately for separate reverb processing.
 
>A patch is a group of eight timbres, reverb
>settings and a rhythm setup.
 
Strictly speaking, each patch does not contain a rhythm setup. There is only
one rhythm setup for the entire box, period.
What each patch does contain is a couple of settings for the rhythm part
as a whole, like output volume. THE one and only rhythm setup defines which
keys trigger which tones, which outputs the keys are routed to, and
pan for each key.

/Mitch 

Newsgroups: rec.music.synth
Path: decwrl!labrea!rutgers!apple!voder!wlbr!pete
Subject: Roland D10/D20 Information
Posted: 18 Oct 88 19:56:54 GMT
Organization: Eaton IMSD, Westlake Village, CA
 
Pete
 
============================================================
Some intesting Roland D-10 info from a few CIS messages:
============================================================
 
#: 20805 S9/Synthesizers
    14-Oct-88  07:54:20
Sb: #D10 ROM versions
Fm: Phil Camp 76004,2054
To: all
 
Having had no reply from Roland, I'm still trying to sort out my faulty Roland
D10. Thanks to a chap on MIDI-NET I now know how to find the ROM version
number. You hold down the EDIT and DATA TRANSFER buttons while powering the D10
on. My machine shows "1.10 27E8". Could all you D10 owners out there check your
ROMs and let me know if yours is different.
 
Thanks, Phil Camp.
 
* Replies:      20908, 21301
 
Read action !
 
#: 21014 S9/Synthesizers
    16-Oct-88  14:05:23
Sb: #20908-#D10 ROM versions
Fm: Phil Camp 76004,2054
To: Jean P. St.Louis 76537,1407
 
My D10 (1.10) has a bug into the data transfer functions, so far Roland refuse
to belive its there. So far I have found 3 different ROM versions (1.01, 1.02
and 1.10) the more I can get the more ammo I will have to force Roland to 'come
clean' about the ROM changes.
 
BTW the bug in the transmit routines causes the F7s from the sys-ex packets to
be lost.
 
* Reply:        21101
 
Read action !
 
#: 21296 S9/Synthesizers
    18-Oct-88  07:42:52
Sb: #D10 power on functions
Fm: Phil Camp 76004,2054
To: all
 
During my search for ROM versions, people on MIDI-NET and BIX have given me the
following undocumented power on commands for the Roland D10;
 
TUNE/FUNCTION + WRITE = Initialise the D10. ** WARNING ** This sets the machine
back to its 'out of the box' state. You lose any modified settings you have
created.
 
EXIT + EDIT = Diagnostic mode. This mode require two other buttons to be
pressed simultaneously ;
 
Diag; EXIT + EDIT = memory test. ** WARNING ** may overwrite memory.
 
Diag; EXIT + TUNE/FUNC = Control test. Shows bender value etc.
 
Diag; EXIT + MIDI = Keyboard test. Show key and velocity.
 
Diag; EXIT + COMPARE = D/A Adjust and PCM test. Bank buttons play PCM sounds
for D/A setup.
 
Diag; EXIT + ENTER = Lamp test. All the lights blink!.
 
There are some other button combos that it is uncertain what they do (Diag;
EXIT+WRITE and EXIT+DATAXFER).
 
 
 
* Reply:        21310
 
====================================================================
 
 
-- 
Pete Lyall (OS9 Users Group VP)|  DELPHI: OS9UGVP  |  Eaton Corp.(818)-706-5693
Compuserve: 76703,4230 (OS9 Sysop) OS9 (home): (805)-985-0632 (24hr./1200 baud)
Internet: pete@wlbr.eaton.com            UUCP: {hacgate,jplgodo,voder}!wlbr!pete 
 
========================================================================
Received: by decwrl.dec.com (5.54.5/4.7.34)
	id AA22059; Tue, 18 Oct 88 22:29:09 PDT

	Well, who says Christmas only comes in December ?!!??  After much
deliberation and talking to D110 owners, I decided to spring for a new
D110 from a local dealer.  A key factor in moving now instead of waiting 
until year-end was that the dealer was willing to match SAM ASH's $697.00
price (which seems to be the current low-ball).  Another was that I like 
the salesman and the store (a small family owned shop) and want to maintain
a good relationship with them for future purchases (Ohh, nooo!!!).

	The purpose of this note is to thank all those who helped with
suggestions and recommendations (esp. Dave Orin 8-)), and to add a couple 
of my initial impressions to the D110 reviews which have been done before.
I will not rehash any of the technical specs for the unit, but limit this
discussion to subjective observations which might be useful to other new
COMMUSICers and prospective buyers.

	The ROLAND D110 is my first additional SGU, added to a system 
mastered by a KAWAI K5. (See Intro 3.27) I also have their R50 Drummer.  
I was looking for a well-rounded SGU whose sounds would both complement 
and augment the K5, and if possible, the R50's drums.  The D110 does this 
beautifully!  (Keep in mind that the following comments are based mostly 
on comparison of D110 sounds to the K5, and to a lesser degree to other 
SGUs I've heard).  WARNING:For those of you who have Roland MT32s and/or 
D110s, this may be redundant.

On its own, the D110 has many great sounds in several important groups:

The keyboards as a whole sound good with a nice variety of Acoustic and
Electric Piano.  The Organs are nicer, particularly the Electrics (try Full-
out Organ).  I only like the first of the Pipe Organs; the others seem a bit 
overdone.  Accordion, Harpsichords, and Clavs are to my ears terrible.  They 
simply sound to "electronic".  Generally, the K5 does a much better job on 
keyboards with very credible piano, decent organ, and a superb harpsichord.

Strings also seem a mixed bag; individual instruments seem a little harsh and 
on the loud side.  Violin, Cello and Contrabass are just too "horny" to be 
credible.  However, Pizzicato is very realistic.  The Harps and Celesta are 
good, but again the K5 sounds more real.  Like the keyboards, the strings
as a group sound better when mixed with other sounds.  I found that the D110's
sounds layer real well with the K5; just about any combination I tried sounded
interesting.  Those of you who are old pros at MIDI may find this elementary, 
but to me this kind of experimentation is new and loads of fun.  For the first
time, I started to realize why people buy more than one SGU !!!

Horns were very dependent on register; the higher, the better.  Thus, Brass,
Horns and Trumpet sounded credible while Trombone was less so.  Tuba just did
not have enough Oomph! (Interestingly, the K5 has a superb Tuba).  Woodwinds 
were generally very good, particularly the Flutes and Pipes.  The Whistle in 
the programable bank is better than the preset, and great for playing stirring
renditions of the theme from LASSIE.  Saxes were not convincing but Clarinet 2
and Bassoon are fun.

There are some great specialty sounds in the second bank (group B).  Things
like Soundtrack, Chorale, Warm Bell, and Ice Rains all have nice rings to 
them.  Echo Bell is spacey.  The Syn Leads and Syn Basses are also good with
lots of digital bite.  The other Basses seemed OK but will take a bit more
listening.  Percussive sounds like Xylophone and Vibes are OK, but not much 
of a match for the K5's.  However the D110 has a superb Timpani, and quite a 
few nice ethnic instruments (mostly Japanese).  And I'm sorry, but I like
stuff like One Note Jam and Telephone; give me some of that Seashore, too.
I guess some people are easily amused, right? (%-}).

Where the D110 really shines is on Drums and Latin Percussion.  The R50 is a 
very good unit with excellent samples, but what the D110 lacks in realism it 
makes up for in variety.  Cymbals are a good case in point.  The D110's long 
Crash is clearly "looped" and on its own would be noticeable.  However, as 
part of a sequence I doubt it would be as noticeable. The R50's Crash is much 
better than the D110's, but there are more KINDS of Crashs available on the
D110 (Long, Short, Mute).  I love Latin music, and have felt a bit hamstrung 
by the lack of flexibility in the R50.  Yes, there is a Hi and Lo Conga, but 
what if you want to slap the Conga instead of hitting it? (Conga Abuse). The 
D110 has this plus other stuff I didn't even know the names for!  Tons of 
Whistles, Wood Blocks, Maracas, and Timbales; just the thing for some smokin'
"claves"!!  And many of the D110's drums are available in patchs which stretch
them across the keyboard (for easy drum rolls) and often chromatically.

Operation of the D110 is another story.  Maybe I have been spoiled by the K5 
and R50, but the D110 is the most cryptic MIDI device I have run into.  It is
DEFINITELY neither user-friendly nor intuitive.  Worse still, even after you
read the documentation (several times), you may have to call Roland directly
to find out how to do something.  I don't know what other people's experiences
with this have been, but I mention it here because it might prejudice folks
against a good machine.  Once you get into the D110 a bit, and find out how
to do things, it really sings.  The trick is cracking the code.  The physical
user interface is not exactly the best either, but they were limited on space
to keep it small.  Although I haven't done any programming yet, the logic
behind how the D110 works appears very well thought out and capable of giving
musicians an enormous amount of flexibility.  The fact that it has rudimentary
effects on-board makes the unit even more valuable, even with a MIDIverbII. 

Even with the above criticism, I would highly recommend the D110.  Unlike some 
of my MIDI toys, this one will require a bit more homework to realize its
potential.  And I will certainly keep the K5 and R50; they do several things
well that are different from the D110.  But in the short time I've spent with 
the D110, I believe it packs a helluva lot of variety into a small package.  
For $700 you get a bunch of clean L/A sounds, some nice PCM partials to work 
with, great drums, and some neat sound effects to boot!!!  

Definitely, a sequencer's best friend.

Clusters, 
Bill Allen @MPO    


    

    re the D110 MIDI interface: I concur, Roland seems to have totally
    jellied its brains with respect to MIDI support in its latest round
    of products.  The D-550's MIDI support is very difficult to use,
    and the user interface to the extensive MIDI capabilities on the
    JX-10 is just about incomprehensible.
    
    len.
    

    1)	This baby sounds much better after it has been "retuned" to
    the pitch of the K5, or whatever other SGU(s) you're using.  I was
    trying to figure out why the combination of the D110+K5 sounded
    so cheesy at times.  Then I ran across a note that pointed out that
    ROLAND Master Tunes the D110 to 442, not 440 as the KAWAI K5.  
    
    Instant Chorus...
    
    2)	Also, I've been playing around a bit with the REVERB settings.
    They sound nice but are DEFINITELY not a match for my MIDIverbII.
    
    BTW, is PLATE the same thing as GATE???
    
    3)  I understand Dr. T has a D-110 Patch Editor/Librarian out for
    the ibm PC.  I have one for the K5 and it makes things easier. 
    Given the D110's user interface (or lack thereof) might this be
    a good investement? 
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen @MPO
    

    
    re: plate and gate
    
    
      No. Plate refers to 'plate reverbs' which, once upon a time,
    consisted of a transducer on one end of a heavy metal plate and
    a pickup on the other end. The plate was suspended. Made a thin
    and long-hanging reverberation. Gate reverb, on the other hand,
    is when you put a noise gate on a reverb so that it clamps shut
    when the reverb decays below the threshold.
    
    Definitely sounds different.
    
    /pjh

    re .25
    
    I know that GATE sounds great on Drums especially snares.  But what
    would I use a PLATE reverb on and why?
    
    Bill

    
    
    
    re: .-1
    
    anything you want a thin-sounding reverb on. By thin-sounding, I
    mean 'with more treble than bass' in it. Vocals sound good with
    plate reverbs, solo instruments too. Keep the reverb level low and
    it sounds ghost-like. Too high, it mushes right up.
    
    /pjh

    Does anyone know how to change the default assignments for tones
    in the RHYTHYM Part?  I would like to change the low C (C2?) from
    BASSDRUM2 to BASSDRUM1 if there is a way to do it.
    
    Enjoying my new toy, 
    
    Bill Allen

I have a D110 and I concur that the manual and the user interface are the pits.
I spent many long hours and days decifering them.  I finally decided that I
will not really be able to fully use the thing without the help of some
software for my MAC.  I have started to write a Hypercard D110 editor,
tutorial and patch librarian.  Does anyone else have this combination of MAC
and D110 with a similar need?  I want to be able to create new sounds in an
easy and sensible way.  By the way, the D110 is a very flexible and sensible
machine in its architecture, but you could not tell it from the manual!

Dennis Brown

Re: Mac and D-110

Yes, the D-110 is my main sound source and the Mac is my sequencer.  But
     that's about it.  I  do  not plan on taking the time to program the
     D-110.  Maybe, if it were real easy, I'd tweak some sounds here and
     there.    There  are editor/librarians already available for  under
     $100.
     
I don't like spending much time on programming at  all.  The only things
     I  would  care  to do with respect to programming is  increase  and
     decrease  attack and release rates, and maybe increase and decrease
     filter cutoff frequencies.

Does anybody know  how  to  do these simple, basic tweaks on a D-110?
I just can't figure it out.

----------
Re: -.2 Bill asks about Changing Drum Tones

That's an easy one  -  but I don't have it memorized, and the machine is
     not in front of me. I'll type it in later.

/Mitch

    There is a public domain utility for the mac that lets you create
    windows of controllers and assign MIDI messages to each controller.
    It comes with a complete editor for the DX7 (no feedback though
    from the synth, just a lot of pots). I'll find out more about it
    and report back.
    
    Ken
    

The program that does this is called MIDIcontrol.  I have a copy. It does
indeed do what it claims - it is a "synth programmer construction set".  It
does have one annoying limitation though: it can not store the value of more
than one parameter in a MIDI data byte.  (The FB01's over-condensed SYSEX
format requires this.) 

It crashes sometimes if you add/delete too many controls during a session.

    re-.32 I dont know the limitations you mentioned 'cos I havent really
    used it, but if your interested I believe it can be found in the
    Mac archives at MET730::MAC$ROOT:[SOUNDS] (Im not sure if this is
    correct syntax not using VMS...).
    	It is a shareware product and even though it may have limitations
    its certainly worth checking out.
    
    Ken
    

Re: last few on MIDIcontrol

Can you explain  exactly  what  this  does?  It doesn't sound to me like
     what I was  asking for 3 or 4 replies back.  I was asking about how
     to  program  D-110 "tones/timbres"  (adjust  attack/release  rates,
     etc.).  I didn't think  this had anything to do with MIDI contiuous
     controller messages.

If MIDIcontrol sends MIDI contiuous controller messages,  then  I  don't
     need it - my sequencer does the same thing.

(Or am I misuderstanding something fundemental?)

/Mitch

MIDIcontrol will send *any* MIDI message.

As you build your control panel, you put various data sliders and switches
around the screen.  With each control you associate one or two MIDI messages
that the program will send when ever you change that control.

For example a toggle switch would have two messages, one for when you move
the switch from OFF to ON, and one when you move it from ON to OFF.  For
sliders you tell it the minimum and maximum values and give it a template
message into which it will put the current value when ever you move the
slider.

Setting up the appearance is somewhat like using an object-oriented drawing
program.

Well, MIDIcontrol  certainly   sounds  interesting.    Especially  under
     MultiFinder where you could keep it in the background.

But I still don't think it can do what I asked about several replies ago
     when I was asking if anyone knew how to tweak D110 sounds.  Or am I
     missing somehting?

/Mitch

    If 'tweaking' is what youre after then this might do the job. It
    is not a full blown editor in that you cant download a sound to
    the MAC, visually edit it and send it back (at least I believe not)
    but I have used it to tweak some of my TX802 sounds. One problem
    you may have though is that it requires some knowledge of the synth's
    system exclusive format if you are setting up a brand new control
    panel. In some ways you could probably liken it to those remote
    programmer boxes you can get for the JX8P etc...lots of knobs and
    sliders. The constraint being that you have to know and program
    what each slider sends to the synth. Even if its not what youre
    after its probably worth having to show off to your friends. :-)
    
    Ken
    

    Speaking about editors.....
    
    
    Is there a voice editor program available for the D10 running on
    the Atari 1040 ST???
    
    Pete

Re -.28

Bill,

To change the tone assignment in the rhythm group.

1. Press PART button
2. Use part select arrows to select rhythm part.
3. Press EDIT button
4. Select Key number to be edited using the part select arrows. I think it 
   defaults to C2.
5. Use the Parameter Bank and Value Number arrows to select the tone you want.
6. Press EXIT twice and you're done.

Dan

I love the sounds in this beast, but I loath the interface.

The MidiControl program will not help with tweeks to the D110, because the
D110 Sysex messages require a checksum byte.  From reading the manual, I
can not see any way that a slider control will send this out.

Dennis Brown

	Its more  complex then simple putting the checksum on the
	end  of  the message.  If you are running in one-way mode
	for SYSEX you have to pause between messages to the D110. 

	I have  a D110 editor that I wrote for the IBM-PC/MPC-401
	pair.   When  I get my Mac I'll port the code over.  I'll
	let you know when its done.

	Oh and  the  title implies that the D110 is equivilant to
	the  D10.  This is not so.  The D110 has more complex ENV
	shapes then the D10.

		Barry

The guy who wrote MIDIcontrol did not look at very many kinds of MIDI
equipment (or read the spec closely), as there are lots of things it can't
do.

For example, the lowly FB01 uses all 8 bits in some of its voice parameters.
You can't send data bytes with the high bit on, so for setting voice
parameters the SYSEX format uses two bytes with the high-order 4 bits
in the second byte.  MIDIcontrol can't do this (but ConcertWare+MIDI can).
The FB01 also packs two and sometimes three voice parameters into one
byte, and MIDIcontrol can't do that either.  Luckily for me, there is
a specialized FB01 voice editor that does know how to do these things, but
that doesn't help the general problem.

    re. 24
    
    Barry,
    	I have a ROLAND D110 for which I am looking for a Patch
    Librarian/Editor.  The computer I use is an AT clone (PC Designs).
    I've been trying to find out about Dr. T's product which looks 
    interesting, but nobody stocks it.  
    
    	1)Did you look at any commercially available products before 
    	  you wrote yours?  
    	2)What does your program actually do?  
    	3)Might it work on an AT clone hooked up to VOYETRA's OPS4001?
    	4)What is your shoe size?
    
    Thanks,
    Bill (who wants to know it all now) Allen

Bill,

>    	1)Did you look at any commercially available products before 
>    	  you wrote yours?  

	I looked  in  the  music  comics  at reviews of comercial
	editors.   But  I  did  not feel that any where worth the
	money. And I wanted to play around with midi programming.

	I also  new  that I would not get editing software for my
	Elka keyboard.

	By the way the progam also has TX81Z editing.

>    	2)What does your program actually do?  

	I have  Timbre, Patch and Tone editing working.  Its done
	in  numbers  and I'm working on the graph drawing code at
	the  moment  (uses  EGA).   I  have  not worked on rhythm
	editing worked out yet.

>    	3)Might it work on an AT clone hooked up to VOYETRA's OPS4001?

	It should  work  on  the  OPS4001.   The program will use
	graphics  and  colour  if its available otherwise it uses
	b&w and character cell.

>    	4)What is your shoe size?

	9

	If your  interested  mail  me  and I'll put a copy on the
	enet for you to get hold of.

			BArry

    
    
    Re a few back..
    
    Yes Steinberg have produced a d10 atari editor. 
    
    I use their D50 editor and have never bothered with the Abysmal
    Roland manual. The program was a far better teacher...
    
    					Paul.

    For what it's worth, I think you will find the latest (January)
    Keyboard to be quite informative in this vein. 

    A heck of a lot more useful than the foul-mouthed drivel of David Bryan
    in last month's issue. 

-b

	Version 1.02  of  the  D10  software has lots and lots of
	bugs  in the SysEx support code.  It is inpossible to get
	an  external  device  to  get  any  data  out of the D10.
	version 1.10 Roland says fixes the problems.

	In the  U.K.   at  least version 1.02 is being shipped in
	new units of the D10, beware.

			BArry

Bill, where did  you  get  the  new  sound cards from?  how much?  etc.?
     /Mitch

>==============================================================================
>Note 1640.62        Sequencer + Expander =? Drum Machine?             62 of 69
>MUSKIE::ALLEN                                      27 lines  11-JAN-1989 17:56
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    re .47
>    There are
>    some cards out now with "new" drum sounds, which I just loaded into
>    my D110 editor/Lib.  I haven't spent that much time with them, but
>    they do sound like some welcome variety.  (Although I think they
>    are based on the same basic tones as the stock sounds).

    Your local ROLAND dealer should have the two new sound cards.  I
    believe the official names are: Unique "D" Sounds (card #1) and
    Rhythym and Bass (card #2).  The cost quoted to me was $89.95 at
    retail.  I am going to give a close listen to them over the weekend
    and will put something on the wire early next week for Dpeople 
    (the cards will work with the D10 and D20, as well as D110).
    
    Bill Allen

Thanks for the reply, Bill.  I had given one of the Roland sound cards a
     listen while in  a  noisy  store.  Based on that listen, I couldn't
     justify $90 for new  patches,  some  of  which sounded redundant or
     similar to what I already have.

Now, $40 from a third party company....maybe.

/Mitch

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note                       Roland D-20,E-20 Reports ?                 
GOBO::ARSENAULT "Life, the ultimate experience"      14 lines  16-JAN-1989 16:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      ----- User Reports Sought -----
                   
    I am considering the purchase of a Roland D-20 or E-20 to complement
    my other MIDI gear and expand my home-based recording studio.
    I would be interested in your opinion as to how they 'STACK' up,
    especially if you own one of the units. I am especially impressed
    with the 16 note poly, voicings, and built in 8 track sequencer.
    Are they really as good as they seem ?
    
    Thanks in advance.....
    
    Dennis
    
    

    After spending most of Saturday with these two new Sound Cards from
    ROLAND, I am glad I have them but also very glad I didn't have to
    spend $180.00 to get them.  There are several usable sounds and
    in general they further extend the variety available.  Many of the
    tones take better advantage of the time variance available to the
    Pitch and Amplitude generators to come up with sounds in the D-50
    tradition.
    
    PN-D10-01 (Unique "D" Sounds) has 63 new synth tones.  Most of these
    are string and voice sounds but there are also quite a few sound
    effects.  I found JX STRINGS and AURORA to be very appealing with
    a smooth analog feeling to them (if I understand the meaning of
    that term, now).  SYN LEAD 1 and ZIP LEAD had the kind of "fatness"
    that I have read people waxing poetic about, and GROWLEAD would
    make a good bass version of this type of sound.  There was an ANALOG
    BRASS which sounded alot like the brass patches I have heard on
    the COMMUSIC tapes.  But my favorites were the slow attack, Honda
    commercial tones like SLOW STRINGS, D-50 VOICE, and SYN CHOIR. 
    Stacked with a good strong piano or dyna patch and a little reverb,
    the combination is sheer delight!  I mean even simple tunes like
    X-mas carols come out sounding yummy !!! :-).  
    
    There are also a bunch of weird effects which at first blush don't
    seem much use.  Things like DROP HIT 2, CUTTING HAMMER, UNDERGROUND,
    JET STREAM, SHIFT and TOM & JERRY.  Many of these are knockoffs
    of patchs on the D-50 and (if my memory serves me) the ESQ-1.  Some
    are unique like UGUISU which sounds just the way you say it.  I
    figure I might be able to use these to help come up with new sounds.
    
    Ther rhythym tones on PN-D10-01 are the same ones that come standard
    in the machine.  The second card, PN-D10-02 RHYTHYM & BASS, has
    about sixteen bass tones.  Most of these are minor variations from
    the stock ones in Group B on the machine.  The only one that stood
    out to me was MINI BASS 2, which I thought would be good for layering.
    The Drum sounds are again, mostly variations of the stock drum sounds
    although here there are a few nice new ones.  Some of the new snares
    in particluar have a nice feel to them especially for fusion or
    new wave rock.  Those who can't live with the looping of the long
    crashes will still not like the cymbals here, but there are a few
    short HiHat tips and taps one could find useful.  There is also
    a sound called a GRANKAS which sounds like a cross between a timpani
    and a gated bass.  (Just the ticket to begin that tender ballad).8-)
    
    All in all, some interesting stuff, but try to take a test drive
    or borrow the card for download before you commit the ducats.
    
    Clusters, 
    Bill Allen @MPO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note 1900.0                 D-20 Synth RAM/ROM cards                  No replies
DISCVR::HAJI                                          6 lines   9-FEB-1989 11:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Has anyone tried the new RAM/ROM cards for the D-20 synths?
    I have heard a couple of them that I liked.  Have you heard any
    new ones lately that you liked?  Also, I am looking for some new
    drum patterns for the D-20.  are there any available on cards?
    
    Hamid,

    
    
    Recently mu D10 was upgraded from version 1.01 to 1.03. This solved
    one problem but it seems an other one is introduced. From the net
    I have the voice dump untility. When I dump voice information into
    the atariu I can't send it back simply because the D10 doesn't seem
    to recognize the protocol.
    
    Is there someone out there who discoverd simmular problems???
    
    Please send your replies to UTROP1::VDBOS
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    Pete

	I think I know the answer to this, but I'll ask anyway...

	On the D110, you have up to 32 voice polyphony, depending on the
patches you use.  What about the drum voices?  Do they also steal from this
total of 32 voices?  Or are they separate in some way?

	I realize, with dynamic voice allocation, this may not be a problem,
but I wonder what happens should you set up a very busy rhythmic sequence
alongside a set of complex (multi-partial) patches.

	Dan

    The drum parts on the D10/D20/D110 and the MT-32 do not count against
    the 32 layers(partials) that you can have at any given time.

    There is the capability of using drum parts that are made up of layers
    (partials) & these would count against the 32, but the stock drum
    sounds do not use these.

							    Jens

RE < Note 1396.57 by TYFYS::MOLLER "Halloween the 13th on Elm Street #7" >

	O.K., then...  How much polyphony does the rhythm portion of the D110
give you (i.e., how many drums can sound simultaneously)?  I haven't seen any
mention of it in any of the literature I have.

	Dan

    Are the D110's drum sounds samples, or are they synthesized?

    Rodney M.

< Note 1396.59 by FGVAXX::MASHIA "We're all playing in the same band" >
                                  -< Duhh... >-

>    Are the D110's drum sounds samples, or are they synthesized?

They are PCM samples for the most part. In some cases, there are additional
drum timbres that have been layered with other partials (synthed or PCM).

dave

    The D10/D20/D110/MT-32's drum sounds can all be sounded at the same
    time (if you so desire, the open hi-hats should probably cancel the
    closed hi-hats, and any other dependant sounds that might cancel each
    other). I looked thru the MT-32 users manual to see what they said it
    was (and it says absolutely nothing about how the drum parts were
    created), I think that some (probably most of them) are sampled sounds
    & some are looped to some degree. (I own the MT-32 & I have 2 nephews,
    one with a D10 & The other with a D110).

    In my opinion, the drums sound very good an all of these units. The
    D110 has the extream benifit of allowing you to assign different MIDI
    channels to seperate outputs. I've also noted that the drum section is
    not quite as loud as the rest of the synth is capable of (minor issue,
    but something to be aware of when setting MIDI levels (Controller 007).

    If you want to get a good idea of what these sound like, go and listen
    to the built in demo sequences on the D110. The MT-32 is real similar
    but equalized in a peculiar manner that can be dealt with with some
    experimentation & has no easy access to creating your own sounds. The
    D110 has a front panel that lets you do all sorts of bizzare and
    potentially useful things.

    The MT-32 has 34 drums associated with 34 different midi notes (note
    #'s). Some are repeats (like you have 2 identical: Bass Drums, Lower
    mid and upper Toms). The D10/D20/D110 has 63 (maybe a few more or
    less), but a very useful and real sounding drum setup. It even responds
    to pitch bend, however this affects all drum sounds at the same time.

    For recording purposes, the D110 is the easiest to use (I like my drums
    on a seperate tape track; this can also be accomplished with a sequencer
    that outputs a TAPE midi sync signal (works just fine on the MT-32)
    where you set the levels of all other midi channels to 000 & record the
    drums independant of the other parts.

    In general, I have the highest regards for this type of device, lots of
    bang for the buck. It (the MT-32) and a sequencer is the heart of my
    'Live' gig gear, as well as my studio.

    As I say, give it (D110) a listen & you decide if it'll work for you.

								Jens

    Anybody care to list the percussion sounds available?  (Any ... um
    ... vibraslaps?)
    
    Steve

< Note 1396.62 by MIZZOU::SHERMAN "quality first cause quality lasts" >


>    Anybody care to list the percussion sounds available?  (Any ... um
>    ... vibraslaps?)

Yes, I think they call the vibraslap a Quijada. I'm not sure if that is
exactly the same instrument though?
    
Here they are...

Bass Drum 1-4
Snare Drum 1-6
Lo Tom 1-3
Mid Tom 1-3
High Tom 1-3
Rim Shot
Hand Clap
Cls HiHat 1-2
Opn HiHat 1-2
Crash
Ride
China Cymbal
Cup
Tambourine
Splash Cymbal
Cowbell
Crash Cymbal (muted)
Ride Cymbal (muted)
High Bongo
Lo Bongo
High Conga
Low Conga
High Conga (muted)
High Timbale
Low Timbale
High Agogo
Low Agogo
Cabasa
Maracas
Short Whistle
Long Whistle
Quijada (vibraslap?)
Cup (muted)
Claves
Brush 1-2
Castanets
Triangle
High Pitch Tom 1-2
Wood Block
Bell
Crash Cymbal (short)
Ride Cymbal (short)
Native Drum 1-3

dave

I thought a quijada was like those fish-looking gourds with the ridges
that you stroke with a little stick.  A sample taken in the middle of
a vibra-slap playing maaaay sound like a quijada. If the 'quijada' sound
you've got has the same attack-then-decay that a vibra-slap has, i think
it's misnamed. It oughta be called a vibra-slap.

    I think Butch is right - there's a quijada in the TR-727, and it
    doesn't sound like a vibraslap; it sounds like the thing he described.
    I think there's a similar instrument called the guiro or something
    like that.  We unimaginatibe North Americans call it a "scraper".
    
    len.
     

    	Anybody know the power-up sequence that can be used to restore
    the factory settings on a D10?
    
    
    thanks............Bruce

        Perhaps Roland D-series has no function to restore the factory
        settings.  I tried to look for it, but I could not.
        Remove and replace internal battery for initialize backup-RAM, or
        reconstruct your equipment if you need.

        In my case, I reconstructed my D110 for restore the factory settings.
        It has a bit of difficulty and risk(warranty becomes avoid),
        but I think it is useful. 

        Reference note written in Japanese as follows,

        topic #18.0
        TKTV20::$1$DUA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MIDI_IN_JAPAN.NOTE;1

        notice: You need KANJI terminal to look it.

        Fukuno.                                           

RE < Note 1396.67 by TKTV05::FUKUNO "The real NEKOMORIST." >

	I seem to recall an article in Electronic Musician that gave 
initialization procedures for most Roland synths (as well as Oberheim Xpander).
I'll see if I can dig it out...

	Dan

    According to ROLAND, the re-initialization procedure for the D110,
    is to turn the unit ON while depressing the WRITE/COPY button. 
    You should get a message asking "INITIALIZE - Yes or No?".  At that
    point you should depress the ENTER button and your D110 will be
    re-initialized.
    
    I need to do this myself today, because I am having some problems
    with my unit.  It seems I am jamming to much data into it to fast
    with my Dr. T's Ed/Lib (at least that is what Dr. T's think's).
    As usual, ROLAND is totally uncooperative on their "Technical Support"
    line.  "Well, geez, you shouldn' have to chant with Strawbery Incense
    to get it to respond to MIDI input, man".  Thanks, Roland.  That's
    the reason I called you bozos in the first place.  :-(
    
    Clusters,
    Bill (who's real glad I got the Kurweil now) Allen
    

    High,
    
    I don't know if you are aware what will happen if you initialize
    the unit. I tried this Write/Copy sequence once and indeed all the
    factory settings were back..........and the user memory, mostly
    performance mode sounds, was EMPTY! So first backup the user memory
    contents before you lose all the nice sounds!
    
    Good Luck!
    
    Pete
    

     What is a reasonable price for a used D10?
     Is $795 way too much?
     
     Thanks in advance
     Dave

    There's one in the want ads here (Dayton Oh area) for $400.  Don't
    know where you're located. 

-b

    Brad, is that a D10 or a D110 for $400?  The D110 is good at $400 I
    would think but an unbelievably good deal for a D10 (with keyboard).
    
    Chad
    
    STAR:: is ZK
    

    	The init funtion for the D10 is different (surprise, surprise)
    from that of the D110. 
    
    	D10 uses	Tune function and Write held down during power-up
    
    	It will *not* ask if you want to init yes/no.  And as described
    in .70 will not bring back the performance mode sounds as the unit
    comes from the factory.  The Roland people state that the only way
    to recover the factory sounds is to get them from your dealer. 
    Thank goodness for editor/librarians!
    
    
    Bruce

     re: .72, .73   So does that mean $795 might be reasonble for
     the D10 (with keyboard), or is Chicago much cheaper than Nashua? ;-)
     Dave

Couldn't tell you.  What is an existing list price and a going price off the
sticker at a place like Daddy's?

Chad

    
    Given that dollar-pound is about equal for this sort of gear, maybe
    it's worth bearing in mind that they go for about 6-700 in the U.K.
    (used).
    
    Richard.

     Without any haggling I just got a quote of $1095 at Acton Music.
     The $795 (used) was at Daddy's. How much discount can I hope
     for on these? ... maybe I had better go re-read those DECMS notes.
     
     Also, Acton has a D5 that eliminates drum patterns and reverb (?)
     of the d10 and adds some arpeggio and automatic chord dodahs for 
     advertised $775 (new). It has the same sounds including the drums.
     Any comments on this one?
                    
     Dave

               <<< NOVA::DVD12:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COMMUSIC.NOTE;1 >>>
             -< * * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * * >-
================================================================================
Note 2191.0                   D110 LEVEL PROBLEMS.                    No replies
TDCIS3::RENOUVEL                                     17 lines   4-DEC-1989 05:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    AGAIN A PROBLEM WITH MY D110.
    
    THE DRUM PART VOLUME LEVEL IS ALWAYS UNDER THE OTHERS.
    
    OR I HAVE TO DO LIKE THE FOLLOWING EXAMPLE :
    
    PART 1       PART 2     PART 3   ...etc        PART R
  LEVEL 20     LEVEL 20   LEVEL 20   ...        LEVEL 100
                                                
    
    IS THAT  NORMAL .
    
    THANK YOU FOR YOUR ANSWERS.
    
    BYE.
    
    PAT.

               <<< NOVA::DVD12:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COMMUSIC.NOTE;1 >>>
             -< * * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * * >-
================================================================================
Note 2190.0                  D110/PATCHS PROBLEMS...                  No replies
TDCIS3::RENOUVEL                                     23 lines   4-DEC-1989 05:38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HI,
    
    MY NAME IS PATRICK AND I HAVE A D110 EXPANDER.
    
    MY PROBLEM IS THE FOLLOWING:
    
    IN THE PART  "R"  RYTHMES , YOU CAN HAVE DRUMS SOUNDS,AND FUNNY
    
    SOUNDS LIKE WOLFS,STRANGES BELLS ETC....
    
    I CAN NOTE HAVE THE DRUMS SOUNDS ON A PATCH THAT WE WILL CALL
    "FIRST", AND HAVE ALL THE INTERNAL FUNNY SOUNDS ON ANOTHER PATCH
    THAT WE WILL CALL "SECOND" IS THAT NORMAL ?
    
    DO I HAVE TO BUY A MEMORY CARD TO SAVE ALL THE PATCHS WITH DRUMS
    SOUNDS AND ANOTHER ONE TO SAVE FUNNY SOUNDS PATCHS?
    
    THANKS A LOT FOR HELPING ME...
    
                               
    REGARDS
    
    PAT.

	The Roland gear (in general) has its drum levels lower than the
	other patches. On any of a MT-32, D-110 or U-110, I usually run
	CC7 on the drums at 10 to 20 higher than the other patches. It's
	just the way that Roland does things.

								Jens

    
    
        What's a fair price for a used D110?. $500?.     
    
        Is pitch bend defined per patch or globally across the machine?.
        I need a  4 step PB for midiguitar and 2 step for my cheesy Jan
        Hammer imitations.
    
    
                                        Looking into one.......Rich
    

Guitar Center had them at $499 new recently.  I'd say $450-$500 is good for
a used one however, but not great.  Most new I've seen is $599-650.

Chad

               <<< NOVA::DVD12:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COMMUSIC.NOTE;1 >>>
             -< * * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * * >-
================================================================================
Note 2196.0                  D110/PATCHS PROBLEMS...                  No replies
TDCIS3::RENOUVEL                                     14 lines   6-DEC-1989 07:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    HI 
    
    WELL I JUST BOUGHT AN OCTAPAD.
    
    CAN I HAVE ALL THE DRUMS SOUNDS ON MY D110 ON A PATCH,
    
    AND ALL THE EFFECTS ON ANOTHER PATCH ,WITHOUT HAVE TWO HOURS WITH
    
    PROGRAMMING MY D110 ?

                                                    
    THANKS A LOT.
    
    PAT.

    THANK YOU JENS ,
    
    But can you explain me the two other points I wrote in my note?
    
    thank you very much.
    
    ps: excuse me for my english.
  
    PAT.
       
    

    
    
       How does one invoke the demo sequences of this beastie? (d110)
                                                   
    
                                     Rich



                                                                     
    

>       How does one invoke the demo sequences of this beastie? (d110)

	I don't remember exactly, but it's a menu option that you choose.
	I wish that it sent the demo out the MIDI port so I could see
	what they are doing. I'm surprized that they couldn't make the
	D-110 (or the U-110) have fewer buttons, as I'm sure that they could
	have added more and more menues (In other words, it irritates me
	to have all these menus). The toughest thing about using the D-110
	is probably making sense out of the doucumentation. The MT-32 is
	so similar, but so much simpler to use (except some of the buttons
	that you have to press to do things isn't that obvious either).

							Jens


                                                                     
    

    
    
       I just played with one at Rogue for about an hour(rough job eh?)
    without the manual. Took me about 7 minutes to figure out how to
    get out of the performance mode. Cool drums. I'm going back tonight
    to pick it up. Heard the demo on the D10 (rom play). I'll have to
    rip it off.*^]
                                    Rich
    

>        <<< Note 1396.87 by CSC32::MOLLER "Nightmare on Sesame Street" >>>
>             -< Pretend that you're in a restaurant, look at menues >-
> >       How does one invoke the demo sequences of this beastie? (d110)
> 	I don't remember exactly, but it's a menu option that you choose.

I don't think  so.  In fact the D110 is not even really menu driven.  It
     has plenty of  'modes', but no real menues.  The U110, on the other
     hand, is clearly menu driven.

ROM play on the D110  is  envoked by pressing two button simultaneously.
     I don't know the two  buttons  off  hand,  but I beleive one is the
     enter button (bottom right), and I  seem  to  recall  the other one
     being in the upper left.    I'm not 100% sure of this...  maybe 75%
     sure.

ROM play on the U110 is more clearly a menu selection.

D110 U/I in general is a complete hack.    I no longer touch the buttons
     on the  D110  front panel for fear of not being able to get it into
     my favored setup again (without >30 minutes of futsing).

U110 U/I is very nice.

------------
D110 drums are still my mainstay drums.  Excellent variety.   Can't wait
     to get a set of pads.

I have been having trouble lately losing notes on the complex L/A sounds
     during  some sequences which previously did not lose notes.  I must
     have somehow screwed up  the  allocation  scheme while futsing with
     the stupid U/I buttons.


/Mitch

    WELL I THINK I CAN REMENBER THAT YOU HAVE TO PUSH IN THE SAME TIME
    THE ENTER BUTTON ON THE RIGHT SIDE AND THE OTHER AT THE LEFT AND
    BOTTOM.
    THEM UOU CAN SEE ROMPLAY
    PRESS ENTER ANOTHER TIME TO START SEQUENCE.
    
    OR YOU CAN MAKE YOUR CHOICE WITH THE ARROWS.
    
    SEE YOU .
    
    PAT.

    
    
       Well, I got one last night.Holding enter and pressing EDIT does
    it. Pretty impressive demos.
    

    
    
       Is there a D10/D110 patch topic in Commusic?. I realize one would
    need a looong template.
                  (yup, the UI s**ks)
                                                  Rich
                                     

    re .90
    
    Would You Stop Shouting !!!!!! 
    

    
    A friend owns a D110. Not owning one myself, I couldn't answer his
    question (Although I'm sure I could figure it out in 30 minutes.
    Or an hour if I use the Roland manual! ;^))
    
    What parameters are tweaked in a D110 to route velocity to attack?
    Seems like it should be simple. More velocity=faster attack, less
    velocity = slower attack.
    
    Tanx.
    
    Edd
    

    re .95
    
    I think it is the "T1" parameter on the "TVA" window.  Depending
    on the value of this parameter the slope of that particular partial
    will be steeper (fast attack) or more gradual (slow attack).
    
    I'll double check when I go home tonight.
    
    Clusters,
    Bill Allen

    Is that dependant on velocity?
    
    I'm unfamiliar with the D110, but given your description, T1 seems like
    the A in a classic ADSR envelope.
    
    Edd

    re .97 re .96 - It is - T1 corresponds to the A segment of a classic
    ADSR envelope.  I'm pretty sure there is a parameter on the D-50/550
    that controls modulation of T1 as a function of keyboard velocity.
    I doubt there's an analogous parameter on the D-110, as it's one
    of the more obvious things to dump in order to make the instrument
    less expensive.
    
    I can look this up tonight if you're not in a desparate hurry, but
    even then, the answer will be for the D-550, not the D-110.
    
    len.
    

    > one of the more obvious things to dump...
    
    Nah, can't be. Dump velocity sesitivity??? Even my DX-21 which has
    a keyboard that doesn't generate velocity allows you to tweak the
    patches to respond to velocity... (KEY-VELO)
    
    I'd expect it from Yamaha, not Roland...
    
    Why, even my MIRAGE allows it!!
    
    Edd

    No, not velocity sensitivity, but velocity modulation of envelope
    time parameters.  In order of decreasing probability of support,
    "velocity sensitivity" usually means:
    
    	VCA (envelope sustain) level (almost always there)
    
    	VCF (envelope sustain) level (usually there)
    
    	VCF/VCA attack/decay times   (usually only there in high end synths)
     
    Note that VCA/VCF level and VCA/VCF envelope sustain level are two
    different things, as velocity modulation of the latter will change the
    relative level of the attack transient, while velocity modulation
    of the former will leave the relative levels unchanged.
                                  
    len.
    

    The D-50/550 and D-10/20/110 all support a parameter named (with
    minor variations within the documentation even for a single synth;
    trust Roland to make it easy for users)
    
    	TVA Envelope Velocity Follow (T1)
    
    This parameter is in the TVA Envelope Group (which includes a keyboard
    follow parameter as well).
    
    On the D-50/550, this parameter can be valued from 0 to 4.  It governs
    the rate at which T1 (the attack time) decreases as the velocity
    increases.
    
    There is no analogous parameter for the TVF envelope.
    
    len.
    

    Zactly what I was looking for.
    
    tnx
    
    Edd

    Yes,
    
    	the "A" stands for attack and that is what the T1 parameter
    controls.  There is also another menu for something called TVA,
    but I forget exactly how this one affects the sound.
    
    Bill 

    Did I miss something?
    
    :-)
    

    During recording in Multitimbral mode, I have the impression that
    the automatic metronome slows down slightly - has anyone else
    experienced this ?  I've heard this from one other D-20 user.
    How can it be fixed ?  Otherwise, I am certainly happy with the
    wide range of functionality this machine provides...

    
    I tried the TUNE/FUNCTION + WRITE in order to reinitialize my D10
    and it set up the multi-timbral mode sounds correctly, but the
    performance sounds were all splits with bank A being a mirror-image
    of bank B (i.e. A11 = sound_x upper and sound_y lower, while B11 =
    sound_y upper and sound_x lower). Also, all of the patch names were
    initialized to blank (you have to display the upper and lower tone 
    names to see what you're playing).
    
    Anyone noticed this?
    
    Richard.

    Richard:
    
    	I noticed this the hard way just as you have.  I called Roland
    support and they stated that this is 'normal' for the reinit.  The only
    way to recover the performance sounds is to restore from a RAM card.
     
    If anyone has a RAM card with the factory performance sounds that I can
    borrow, I would greatly appreciate it.  I hate to buy one because I will
    only need it once since I am now using the Sound Quest D10 editor.
    
    
    Bruce Mc
    

    Aha!
    
    Funnily enough, I borrowed a RAM card and restored the noises this
    weekend. I can send you an ATARI-formatted disk of the factory sounds
    if you have trouble (plus a few more PD banks). Not that I know
    anything about ATARIs, it's just that I was given these disks when I 
    bought the synth. 
    
    The init sequence also does strange things to the internal programmable
    tones (in the multitimbral mode). I don't think I'll do it again.
    
    Richard.

    Thanks Richard, but I got a line on a RAM card in town that one of my
    friend's friend has.  If that falls through I will be giving you a
    call.
    
    
    Bruce Mc

    
    I didn't know whether to put this in the 'anti-aliasing' notes or 
    what. Anyway, I was talking to the Roland service people in the U.K.
    about noise on D10/D50 synths (well discussed in this conference).
    They said that aliasing noise can be reduced to an optimum level (!)
    bny tweaking the internals of the synth while in diagnostic mode. The
    chap I spoke to said it was a digital adjustment (mumble most
    significant bit mumble) that has to be done by service personnel if
    you want it done. 
    
    The question is, is this rubbish or not? Are we talking digitally-     
    controlled-analogue-filter tweaking, or just adjusting the speed that 
    some gate or other closes, or what?  Anyone hazard a guess? 
    
    Richard.

    
    O.K. -- I found out and did it myself. 
    
    There's a variable resistor that hits you smack in the eye as soon as
    you take the bottom off the synth. It controls an analogue filter. Turn
    it one way, more noise. Turn it too far the other way, more noise. Get
    it right, and no noticeable noise at all. To perform this adjustment,
    you require a very sensitive piece of test gear -- your ear (or somebody
    else's, even).
    
    Richard.

    
    Latest D20 O/S in the U.K. is 1.04 (ROMS A+B) 1.03 (ROM C).
    
    Upgrade costs 10 pounds from Roland U.K. in Brentford (to a 
    second user).
    
    Richard.

    Hi,
    
    I have seen a lot of discussions about revision levels of the ROM
    software of the D10 etc. Does anybody know what kind of problems
    will solve the software upgrade's? (Or what kind of problems it
    create's for that matter)
    
    
    Pete
    

    Somewhere back in this topic you'll find all that. Missing info in
    SYSEX data means you have a hard time transferring data to/from your
    Dn if you have a duff version. I know 1.04 on the D10 and 1.04/1.03 
    on the D20 work o.k. I don't know of any problems created byupgrading.
    
    Richard.

    
    Can some D-110 owner out there answer a question for me?
    
    I understand it is possible to do sys-ex dumps from the front panel of
    the D-110.  Is it possible to save portions of memory as opposed to the
    whole thing?  I.e. as I understand it, memory contains voice
    information as well as multi-timbral setup information.  Can these be
    saved seperately?  Does the total dump exceed 64Kbytes?
    
    							Brian
    

    I can only tell you what the D-10 does in this regard, Brian. From the
    "front panel", you can dump the "sounds" (all of the timbres), the
    "rhythms" (all of the drum patterns, etc) or "all" (both of the above,
    plus the system configuration parameters). You can't dump individual
    timbres, or memory locations (from the panel). I would expect the D-110
    is the same, or less.
    
    - Ram

    
    If you have a RAM card, you can save individual patches/timbres to
    that, of course. 
    
    Richard.

    Can anyone give me the lowdown of the D20's sequencer without confusing
    me?  I've read loads of notes, and advertising, but that's all I know.
    I haven't had any physical experience of MIDI and this'll be my first real
    keyboard.
    
    I know it has a 1 song limit (16,000 notes) and is 8 track plus rhythm. 
    I've also read that it has overdub.  That's all I know!  What's missing
    and what isn't.
    
    
    matty

    I've recently got one, and the only thing that's missing that some
    people really want is step-time entry. (You know -- next beat, add
    note, next beat, add note...).
    
    Overdub is for volume and stereo panning.  Very quick to learn,
    *very* quick to set up sounds/tracks. 
    
    Richard.

    I've owned a D20 for over a year and the most annoying thing about
    it is you cannot "step edit" any track other than the rhythm track.
    This can prove to be fatal if the user isn't good at "real-time"
    playing. Best advice I can offer is that until you are comfortable
    with the machine, sequence your song in sections and don't proceed
    until you are sure about the last section that you sequenced.
    
    Also, if you midi the D20 to other SGU's, you can only monitor either
    the D20 or the SGU. This effects the monitoring track by track,
    so if  you want to trigger a SGU for track 1, you must mute track
    1 on the D20 and the SGU will then perform. It's strange, weird
    and wonderful at the same time. If you want to know more about it,
    e-mail me on PEKING::SMITHO. More than glad to help.
    
    Cheers,
    Otha

    Here in Utah, the local Guitar City is having a sale on Roland D110s
    for $275.  That sounds like one heck-uv-a price, isn't it?
    
    I was wondering if anyone knows if the setup I want to use is do-able
    on the D110.
    
    I want to set certain instruments to certain channels and set a
    volume level from the front panel.  I'm fairly certain I can do
    that on the D110.  Then I want to turn off response to all further
    program changes and volume changes that it receives on the midi
    channels.  
    
    I also need so set some of the 2-10 channels to ignore all data on
    those channels - I guess I can mute those channels?  I want my K4
    to play those notes instead of the D110.
    
    Anyone know if I can do the above?  If so, I think I'll buy the
    D110 unless someone knows unless someone knows something else in
    the $275 that will get me those kind of sounds and the extra notes
    I need.
    
    Thanks in advance for any replies.
    
    Terry Luke
    

    $275!?!?!  Are these used units or something?  I've seen MT32s going
    for more.  Sounds like the deal of the century.
    
    Steve

    $275!!!!! I'll buy all they have for that price!!!
    
    It must be a mistake...
    
    Edd (nuthin_good_ever_happens_to_me)

    Well the price WAS correct.  The sale starts tomorrow (Friday).
    I called today to confirm the price and found out that they only
    had three and they are all sold  - the day before the sale starts.
    I guess it was too good to be true.  BTW, they WERE new.
    

    > Well the price WAS correct...
    
    >> I'll buy every one they have for $295....
    
    Like I said...
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd
    
    

    
    
      re .121
    
       Everything you describe in .121 in "do-able" with the D110.
    The machine gets a "overall" channel assignment, and each of the
    eight "parts" (nine including the drums, stuck on channel 10) can
    be set to any channel, or *off**. There is a setting that will allow
    you to enable/disable "virtual instrument" type patch changes (patch
    changes within patches). Catch my drift?.
       Each of the "parts" (I hate Roland terminology) has it's own
    volume level and stereo position, and theres a front panel rotary
    for the entire unit.
       
       The D110, in my opinion, is capable of much more than what the
    factory patches reveal. After spending about 20 hours working with
    it as a synth and ignoring the "sample player" side of it, i've
    come up with some fairly decent moogish(?) synth sounds.
    
    RC
    

    3 sold before the sale, where they're supposed to be on sale.  Uh huh.
    Wonder who they sold 'em to.  Now, nobody said "bait and switch" 
    but ...
    
    Steve

    	I was working last night with the D10 and Sequencer Plus when
    something bizarre happened.  One of the tracks I was using was a solo
    line that had quite a few subtle pitch bends.  I had been fooling
    around with the pan parameters on several of the parts and decided to
    reinit the D10.  Once this happened the solo line with the subtle pitch
    bends now sounded like a slide whistle!
    
    	I have never (sure you have heard this before) modified *any* of
    the default patches and have never seen any of the system related
    parameters that map to pitch bend sensitivity.  Furthermore, I have
    reinited the D10 many times and never come up with this problem before. 
    The pitch bender works fine now, only it seems a bit more sensitive (or
    is that just me?).  I hate to re-record the solo line, any ideas?  Will
    be trying Roland later this afternoon.
    
    
    thanks.............Bruce Mc

One idea is to scale all of your pitch bend values at the sequencer end.

/Mitch

    
    
      Once you initialized the D10, all PB parameters were defaulted
    to 12 half steps. Not easily controllable for subtle pb's, imho.
      To set PB on a voice, go to "tone edit mode", then hit the up
    arrow to the right of the "part" arrows to step through transpose,
    tuning and pb parameters for individual voices.
    
    Rich
    
    
    

    Rich:
    
    	The wierd thing is that I have init'd many times before and never
    come across this problem.  I talked with one of the 'product
    specialists' from Roland yesterday and he suggested the same thing as
    you.  I did try that, decreasing the value from 12 to 2.  That still
    did not make the pitch bend subtle enough and at a value of 1 it was
    almost non-existent.  I have never had to 'tweak' any of the patch
    parameters in the past, the only changes I made were 'system' level
    (reverb, pan, etc...).
    
    	Out of the box the modulation section of the pitch bend lever
    always seemed 'tight' and never provided what I thought was enough
    modulation (as compared to the Matrix-6r and Xk controller I was used
    to using).  Is that normal for the D10 and it's factory settings? 
    Could I be having some hardware problems with the calibration of the
    pitch bender?
    
    	I restored from backup a copy of the song that I was working
    (sanity check mainly) and that works fine, so I know that it was
    nothing strange happening on the sequencer end.
    
    
    any more ideas?
    
    Bruce Mc

    Maybe you need to explain what you mean by "reinited the D10".
    I don't really understand what you did, because if you just powered it
    off and on the D10 should have come back up in the same state it was in
    before. But as the previous note indicated, whatever you did must have
    changed the pitch bend parameter for the timbre you were using, which
    can easily be set back to whatever it should have been. When I got my
    D10 (which I got used, so it might have been modified) the pitch bend
    parameter for most timbres was set to 2 (a whole step). On the MT-32
    the default setting seems to be 12 (an octave).
    
    - Ram

>     I restored from backup a copy of the song that I was working
>     (sanity check mainly) and that works fine, so I know that it was
>     nothing strange happening on the sequencer end.

On the contrary, If one copy of your sequece works fine, and another copy
produces a problem, then it's  your  sequence that got modified, not your
synth parameters.  So, when you said that "that works fine", did you mean
that  it  produces  the same (bad) results,  or  that  it  produced  good
results?

Maybe I'm reading you wrong.

/Mitch

    Mitch:
    		
    	Sorry, I lied.  What I meant to say was that *neither* of the
    sequences worked.  It seemed as though the problem was with the D10.
    
    Ram:
    
    	To reinit the D10 use the following:
    
    	Tune function and Write held down during power-up 
    
     Reference my note 1396.74 which explains that this power-up sequence
    restores the D10 to the factory settings (minus the performace sounds
    and combinations).  These are the same factory settings I never
    changed!
    
    
    Bruce Mc

    I'm baffled. Like I said, the D10 seems to have the default pitch bend
    parameter for most timbres set to 2. As you noted, this doesn't give
    much of a bend effect when using the pitch lever, at least not the
    typical synth effect most people are used to. I happen to prefer it,
    because I mostly use bends for things like bass lines or harmonica
    parts, things that don't naturally bend more than a step or so anyway.
    
    But it seems very strange that if the bend paramater is set to 2 it
    would bend more than a step. Maybe you ought to create a test sequence
    to try this out. When I've run into MIDI strangeness such as this I've
    usually discovered it was due to something non-obvious that I had done
    myself inadvertantly, not a failure in the equipment.
    
    	- Ram

    Not to change the subject, but I've been running into a little
    weirdness myself that maybe a better audio or electronics engineer than
    I could explain. I'm running two identical synths (happens to be a D-10
    and a D-110) through a 4-channel stereo mixer into a pair of
    headphones. That is, stereo out from each synth into 2 of the four
    channels, with each channel on the mixer panned left or right
    appropriately so I get a single combined stereo output.
    
    Everything sounds fine unless I have the rhythm track play on both
    synths. In this case I get an effect that sounds like the signals are
    out of phase, almost like a flanger. It's most noticeable on the snare
    drum, which almost gets cancelled out at times it is so severe. It's
    actually an interesting effect, similar to running things through a
    Leslie speaker, but not one I'm looking for. I should mention that the
    effect is significantly less noticeable if I set the mixer output to
    mono, maybe even non-existent. I've previously used this same setup
    with an MT-32 instead of the D-110, and I never noticed the effect
    then - but the MT-32 rhythm section is not identical to the D-10, the
    generated sounds are slightly different.
    
    The question is, what's going on here? I'm feeding two identical stereo
    inputs through the mixer, and instead of mixing they seem to be
    intermittantly cancelling. Is this a defect in the mixer, like leakage
    between the channels? Is it normal audio cancellation? Any ideas?
    
    - Ram

    I'd be willing to bet it's entirely normal...
    
    Do you have MIDI OUT (or THRU) on one connected to IN on the other?
    
    If so, you are attempting to fire the same sound *almost* at exactly
    the same time from 2 sources. Since they don't fire at *exactly* the
    same time, you get some phase cancellation, just like a flanger!
    
    I get the same effect on my HR-16 by setting up 2 pads with the exact
    same tuning, voice, and output. Everytime I send the appropriate note
    on, I get a KILLER flange. The HR-16 can't read the same sample twice
    simultaneously, but it CAN do it real quickly in succession.
    
    Why it's so obvious on percussion and not on other instruments I don't
    know...
    
    /edd

	It may be the result of simply being out of phase. If this is
	the case, you might try to build the following 'phase reverser'
	out of radio shack parts:
					      10 k
                                       +-----/\/\/\-----+
                                       |                |
                                       |                |
                                       |   |\           |
	             10 uf     10k     |   | \          |
		o--+--||-----/\/\/\----+---|- \         |     10 uf
                   | +                     |   >--------+------||----o
                   /           +-----------|+ /         
                   \ 1         |           | /  741 or other      
                   / meg       /           |/   generic OP amp
                   \           \ 10k
                   |           /
                  gnd          \
                               |
			      gnd        Use 2  9 volt batteries:

                                            +------+       +------+
				   + V  <===| +  - |===+===| +  - |===> - V
                                            +------+   |   +------+
                                                       |
                                                      gnd



      This is just a generic unity gain voltage follower that inverts the
      signal (so no special op amp is needed).

 I run a D-110 with an MT-32 and a U-110 occasionally, and I have not run
 into phasing errors, but I can select phasing on the mixers I use (I built
 them myself), using the above circuit.


								Jens

    Yow, I've got my hands full trying to find time to make music after
    doing all this MIDI stuff, and now I have to build *circuits*?
    
    Just kidding Jens, it's quite possible that this is a phasing problem,
    and your circuit would solve it. I don't understand, however, why the
    two synths would be out of phase, or why swapping the channels on the
    stereo inputs wouldn't solve this.
    
    Edd's proposal seems more likely. I'm driving the two synths from the
    two MIDI outs on the MC-500, and they are not connected together in any
    way other than this. However, it's very probable that the MC-500
    doesn't send the signals at exactly the same time on the two ports,
    causing them to be generated slightly out of phase. Like you said, Edd,
    I don't know why this is so much more noticeable on the drum parts, but
    it's probably because they have steeper slopes (stronger transients)
    which makes the phasing effect more obvious. It probably wasn't
    noticeable with the MT-32 and the D-10 in combination because the
    waveforms they generate are actually slightly different.
    
    If this latter explanation is true, I don't know that there's any
    solution other than not to use the rhythm sections of both synths in
    synch (or feed them out to different audio amplifiers, separated enough
    spatially so that the phasing isn't noticeable). Since they sound
    identical there's no real reason I need to do this anyway. Forewarned
    is forearmed.
    
    - Ram

	I'll still bet that this is phase related. If 2 signals are the
	same, but 1 is 180 degrees out of phase with the other, the
	net result is cancellation. 

	If you have a guitar stomp box or 2 lying around, you'll find
	that these often change the phase of the output signal in their
	'just passing the input signal' mode. You might want to stuff
	one in the signal path and try it (I know that you play guitar,
	and most guitar players have a stomp box or 2 lying about).

	On my MT-32, if I mix the left and right channels 100% to the center,
	my drums dissappear (almost entirely). The Phase monster is reponsible
	in this case. The only thing that is predominant when I do this is
	the drum sounds that the digital reverb send thru (they don't appear
	to cancel each other). Interesting effect, but nothing that I would
	find all that useful during live performance.

							Jens

    
    
      RE .136 Phase problem
    
      Perhaps the stereo positioning of the individual drum
    "tones"(bleecchh-Rolandese)on channel 10 are not exactly identical.
      This could be the problem. Try killing the volume of part "R"
    on one synth.
    
    Rich
    
      

    You can get 180 degree phase shifting by running the audio signal
    through a transformer. There's a little loss of signal strength, but no
    batteries required!

I've got a noise problem with my D20. It is clearly heard on the bass sounds,
as different 'hiss', varying with which key you press - it's becoming more and
more annoying, if it really increases or it just does it in my brain, I can't
tell...I can hear it also on the AcouPiano sounds, where the noise sounds like
distorted overtones.

I read an earlier reply mentioning a potmeter on a D10/50 that one could ad-
just to minimum noise. Does that also apply for the D20? And can this type of
noise be removed by an adjustment? I'm planning to get a work manual for this
machine, so if it has got adjustment procedures, I'll make a copy of it here.
Also, my ROM version number is 1.0 - could that be a problem?

If anybody has something to say about this, please add your comments!

Poul

    
    There's not a lot you can do about the noise heard while the note
    is playing, but the adjustment inside trims the noise once the
    the note is released. There's a mixture of digital grunge and pure
    noise on the D-series machines that you can't do much about. I bet
    you're playing with headphones. This sort  of noise is lost completely
    in a mix -- say, during a sequence -- and is certainly swallowed up
    by the p.a. when you use it live.
    
    Very few of these sample/synth based instruments are completely
    quiet, and if you let it bug you you'll end up mad, grey and penniless.
    
    Richard.

That's what I call quick response - thanks for your input, and yes, you're
right, I was doing a late_night_session with my headphones on...also, on
moments like this, you imagine all sort of ghosts in the machine...

Poul

    I suspect this is not "noise", but a component of the patch. I use
    the D-10 and the D-110, and some of the bass patches do have a slightly
    annoying "hiss", a kind of "aspirated" bass. I really sounds to me like
    this is a function of the ring modulator or some other component of the
    patch that is required to get the right general characteristics in the
    tone.
    
    As has been noted, this is only really observable with the headphones,
    and disappears in the general "noise" of a real sequence.
    
    - Ram

    
    
       Has anyone used the D-110 with any of Sierra On-Line's software that
    supports the MT-32?
    
       Are the timbre locations similar enough that appropriate instruments
    are selected?  Is that a non-issue?  Will it not work at all?
    
       I was looking at one of the "Leisure Suit Larry" books that have
    popped up in the computer section of the book store and it barely said
    anything about the MIDI implementation.  It did list some files that
    were used, though.  Could these be edited to adapt it to a different
    synth?
    
    
    - Pat

    >   Has anyone used the D-110 with any of Sierra On-Line's software that
    >supports the MT-32?
    
    No, but I used to have an MT-32, now have a D-110, and I had to convert
    all of my sequences from the MT-32 to run on the D-110, so I know a
    fair amount about their compatibility.
    
    >   Are the timbre locations similar enough that appropriate instruments
    >are selected?  Is that a non-issue?  Will it not work at all?
    
    No, even though they have many of the same timbres, in many cases they
    are in different locations. For the most part you just have to change
    the program assignment in the sequence (but I don't know how easy that
    is for you). Just to be a nice guy I'll include at the bottom a mapping
    of the MT-32 timbres to those on the D-110, which I did to facilitate
    my own conversions. You should note that a few of the special effects
    things like "One-Note Jam" don't map in my chart because I don't use
    them and replaced the presets in my D-110 with other timbres. You
    should also note that in some cases the mapping is a judgement call
    because the timbres are not identical in every respect. But this should
    provide a useful start. When converting an MT-32 sequence I do it first
    "by the book", then go back and see if I like the result.
    
    >   I was looking at one of the "Leisure Suit Larry" books that have
    >popped up in the computer section of the book store and it barely said
    >anything about the MIDI implementation.  It did list some files that
    >were used, though.  Could these be edited to adapt it to a different
    >synth?
    
    You lost me. If you're asking whether MIDI files for the MT-32 could be
    adapted to run on some other synth, I would say it is very likely.
    
    - Ram
    
    
    
    
			MT-32 to D-10/110 Translation Chart
			-----------------------------------


	MT32/D10     Voice			MT32/D10     Voice

        001  001    Acoustic Piano 1		033  065    Fantasy
	002  002    Acoustic Piano 2		034  066    Harmo Pan
	003  003    Acoustic Piano 3		035  067    Chorale
	004  005    Electric Piano 1		036  068    Glasses
	005  006    Electric Piano 2		037  069    Soundtrack
	006  007    Electric Piano 3		038  070    Atmosphere
	007  008    Electric Piano 4		039  071    Warm Bell
	008  004    Honky Tonk Piano		040  xxx    Funny Vox

	009  009    Electric Organ 1		041  073    Echo Bell
	010  010    Electric Organ 2		042  074    Ice Rains
	011  011    Electric Organ 3		043  075    Oboe 2001
	012  012    Electric Organ 4		044  076    Echo Pan
	013  013    Pipe Organ 1		045  xxx    Doctor Solo
	014  014    Pipe Organ 2		046  xxx    School Daze
	015  015    Pipe Organ 3		047  077    Bellsinger
	016  016    Accordian			048  078    Square Wave

	017  017    Harpsichord 1		049  033    String Section 1
	018  018    Harpsichord 2		050  034    String Section 2
	019  019    Harpsichord 3		051  035    String Section 3
	020  020    Clavinet 1			052  030    Pizzacato
	021  021    Clavinet 2			053  025    Violin 1
	022  022    Clavinet 3			054  026    Violin 2
	023  023    Celesta 1			055  027    Cello 1
	024  024    Celesta 2			056  028    Cello 2

	025  037    Synth Brass 1		057  029    Contrabass
	026  038    Synth Brass 2		058  031    Harp 1
	027  039    Synth Brass 3		059  032    Harp 2
	028  040    Synth Brass 4		060  101    Acoustic Guitar 1
	029  085    Synth Bass 1		061  102    Acoustic Guitar 2
	030  086    Synth Bass 2		062  103    Electric Guitar 1
	031  087    Synth Bass 3		063  104    Electric Guitar 2
	032  088    Synth Bass 4		064  xxx    Sitar




			MT-32 to D-10/110 Translation Chart
			-----------------------------------


	MT32/D10     Voice			MT32/D10     Voice

	065  089    Acoustic Bass 1		097  038    Brass Section 2
	066  090    Acoustic Bass 2		098  097    Vibe 1
	067  091    Electric Bass 1		099  097    Vibe 2
	068  092    Electric Bass 2		100  xxx    Synth Mallet
	069  093    Slap Bass 1			101  119    Wind Bell
	070  094    Slap Bass 2			102  098    Glockenspiel
	071  095    Fretless Bass 1		103  120    Tube Bell
	072  096    Fretless Bass 2		104  100    Xylophone

	073  049    Flute 1			105  099    Marimba
	074  050    Flute 2			106  105    Koto
	075  051    Piccolo 1			107  108    Sho
	076  051    Piccolo 2			108  109    Shakuhachi
	077  052    Recorder			109  056    Whistle 1
	078  053    Pan Pipes			110  056    Whistle 2
	079  057    Sax 1			111  054    Bottleblow
	080  058    Sax 2			112  055    Breathpipe

	081  059    Sax 3			113  xxx    Timpani
	082  057    Sax 4			114  114    Melodic Tom
	083  060    Clarinet 1			115  113    Deep Snare
	084  061    Clarinet 2			116  xxx    Electric Perc 1
	085  062    Oboe			117  xxx    Electric Perc 2
	086  047    English Horn		118  xxx    Taiko
	087  063    Bassoon			119  xxx    Taiko Rim
	088  064    Harmonica			120  xxx    Cymbal

	089  041    Trumpet 1			121  xxx    Castanets
	090  042    Trumpet 2			122  xxx    Triangle
	091  043    Trombone 1			123  121    Orchestra Hit
	092  044    Trombone 2			124  xxx    Telephone
	093  046    French Horn 1		125  xxx    Bird Tweet
	094  046    French Horn 2		126  xxx    One Note Jam
	095  048    Tuba			127  xxx    Water Bells
	096  037    Brass Section 1		128  xxx    Jungle Tune

    >>anything about the MIDI implementation.  It did list some files that
    >>were used, though.  Could these be edited to adapt it to a different
    >>synth?
    
    >You lost me. If you're asking whether MIDI files for the MT-32 could be
    >adapted to run on some other synth, I would say it is very likely.
    
         Oops.  I guess that was a bit confusing.  The book listed files that
    come with the game, named MT32.something, FB01.something, that have some
    relation to the MIDI implementation.  I was curious as to whether
    anyone had played with those files enough to know what they were and
    whether or not they contained patch numbers and such.
    
         I don't have any of these games, but I would buy one as a novelty
    if I knew it would use the D110 somewhat properly.
    
         Thanks for the table.  I now can just save my D110 current
    settings to disk and do a massive timbre reorganization to set up a
    MT-32 emulation.
    
     
    - Pat

I don't know how these games work really, never having seen one working, but
somehow I am on Sierra's mailing list and receive about three copies of their
magazine every so many months.  I put them in the bathroom as reading material.

One day I read about their MIDI stuff and it seemed that for the MT32 they had
programmed all their own patches and dump them as SYSEX when you play the game.
That would mean that it wouldn't help you unless the D110 will take MT32 sysex.
They also have a generic MIDI setup I believe so that you can set your synth
to have appropriate voices.

Chad

favor

Does anyone have the factory D110 patches in a sysexe bulkdump format?
I need the file for an acquaintance who accidentally blew his away
without backup.  Prefered Mac disk but any will do.

thanks

chad

Re: .149

Buy this person a drink! Or two! I just bought a couple of MIDIMusic disks
at MacWorld and found out that they are geared for the MT32. I have a D-110.
You have saved me countless hours of trial and error and I am forever grateful.

While I'm here... I'm another of those people who finds the documentation less
than helpful. Can anyone provide a simple explanation of how to access the
various stored sounds and how to move sounds around?

Access: my Mac/MIDI setup translates MIDI instruments numbers 1-128 into the
sounds shown on the "preset" card. However, I noticed that there are other
sounds on the PCM ref card which look interesting. What I want to do is
replace some of the presets with the interesting sounds but I don't want to
do irrevocable damage... (I've read some of the notes in here about people
who've zapped everything!)

Gavin
(I'm a technical writer by trade and I'm beginning to think that there's a
market in certain quarters for my skills... Roland, Pioneer?)

On the subject of documentation, last month's issue of Sound on Sound (or it 
could have been Music Technology, or...hell, it could have been Market Gardener
and Masochist Monthly) featured a reply from the head of Roland's documentation
department to a customer's complaint in the previous issue about the general
standard of documentation (not just Roland's).

He seemed to be appreciative of the shortcomings and to be concerned with
improving the state of affairs (but then one would hardly expect him to compose
a reply that said, basically, "People, I couldn't give a wet fish!") The main
source of his problems, he says, is that the documentation unit is based in
Japan and produces its stuff by translating material from the Japanese. He cites
basic cultural differences in the oriental and occidental ways of expressing
detail as the root of translation difficulties. Japanese, he says, is a very
ambiguous language in which vague concepts are easier to express than the kind
of heads-down, no-nonsense detail that manual readers need.

Now, not being a Japanese speaker, I can't say whether what he says about the 
language is true. What I can say is that I think it misses the point entirely.
I would hazard a guess that the substantial majority of Roland's customers have
English as a first or second language; more to the point, I would imagine that
relatively few of them speak Japanese at all. I would therefore suggest that,
rather than saddle themselves with the problems inherent in translation from the
Japanese, Roland sat down and wrote their documentation in the language that most
of their customers speak.


Chris

    re: .153 (Jones)
    
    > (I'm a technical writer by trade and I'm beginning to think that
    > there's a market in certain quarters for my skills... Roland, Pioneer?)
    
    There most certainly is AND... it's already being filled.  There are
    a number of publishing companies producing what I (sardonically)
    refer to as "3rd party manuals".
    
    IMHO, the success of those companies to make money at that should
    evoke nothing short of shame from the manufacturers.
    
    Now I hold Ensoniq up as an example of a company committed to good
    documentation.  There ARE some third party books about Ensoniq
    equipment but not very much (probably 1 Ensoniq book for every 50
    Roland book) and the purpose of the Ensoniq books that I HAVE seen
    is nothing like a "substitute for the manual" which is usually the
    case with the Roland books.
    
    The Ensoniq books I've seen are more like "programming tips", "patch
    books", etc. that presume that you have already read the manual.
    
    	db

    BTW, if anyone has seen third party manual for the Roland S-550
    PLEASE let me know.
    
    In fairness, I will say that the documentation that came with my
    Roland U-220 is, with some effort, understandable and sufficient
    although not even close to "reasonably good".   It has better
    organization.
    
    Also in fairness, I will have to say that the problems *I* have with
    the Roland manuals STRONGLY support what the Roland rep said in that
    letter.  The content is really all there, it's that the nomenclature
    is never formally presented and the organization is terrible.
    
    One more reason to buy american (not that I ever do anything other
    than buy the best product for the price).
    
    	db - who drives a Subaru

Looks like Roland (and others) have forgotten the basic rules of translation:

     Translate *into* the mother tongue of the translator

That said... anyone seen a third party book on the 110? (I've never seen any
on any machine, but that comes of living in Europe, I suppose :-(  )

Gavin

Maybe Roland would do well to have the copy proof read in the United States
and have someone try to use the manual to use the gear. I rely heavily on
Roland gear, but I have problems understanding the manuals also.

							Jens

    I've said previous echoes, if make wishing fix touch Roland!
    
    Edd

    > Maybe Roland would do well to have the copy proof read in the United
    > States
    
    I volunteer!

Hi there !

The topic about quality of documentation is also of great interest for my job.
I was working in the group that was repsonsible for localizing products for the
German market (like ALL-IN-1). Due to a decision high up the localization
strategy has changed recently so that it will be done in central places for all
languages. In line with that is also to use mainly external contractors for
doing the translation (as opposed to DEC User Information people of the
countries). I don't think this will give satisfactory results, what you guys
wrote about documentation for musical instruments predicts it.

Why ?

There are large differences in the quality of manuals. I think they are mainly
driven by the factors expirience in writing in general and knowledge of the
technology. This is true for original writing and translation. Hence, I don't
think that writing the manuals in English would be any better (sorry guys), at
least that's my impression from DEC documentation.

I think the only way to get good quality is to have a good documentation
concept first (again writing skills and technological skills needed) and have
people in the countries that do the translation with similar skills. Agencies
and contractors cannot cope with that.

What does it help ????? NOTHING. 

OA$SIGH

	Richard

>I think the only way to get good quality is to have a good documentation
>concept first (again writing skills and technological skills needed) and have
>people in the countries that do the translation with similar skills. Agencies
>and contractors cannot cope with that.

This is going down a rathole but... as a highly-skilled and (I'm told)
valuable contract technical writer I really cannot let that remark go by
without comment!

Any project can have very good documentation, be it for a complex system like
VMS or for a simple video recorder. Essentially, all you need is a skilled
writer who is given the resources to do the job. Resources include access to
the material (in this case a D-110), access to the people who created the
material, enough time to do the work, a management team that supports the
writer and so on. I've been lucky so far and have had everything needed to do
the job. The suspicion I have about virtually all the major equipment
manufacturers is that the management is not interested in the quality of the
documentation *content*, but in its appearance. I don't think the Japanese
language has anything to do with it; have you read the manual that came with
your GM car, for instance? 

Anyway, we could carp internally as much as we want; no-one will hear us since
this is a private medium. As a result of this discussion, however, I'm going to
express my views directly to the Sales Manager at Roland and see what response
I get... I'll keep you posted. 

Gavin
PS My question still stands: how do I access the PCM sounds?  :-)

    I used to know some people in the contract translation business.  They
    said there are three main points that make for a good technical
    translation:
    
    	1. Translation must be done be somebody who is very knowledgable
    	   in the field being discussed.
    
    	2. This person must also be a native speaker of the language being
    	   translated into.
    
    	3. The translation must be checked by someone who is very
    	   knowledgable in the field *and* is a native speaker of the
    	   *original* language.
    
    So you need two people who share both languages, one as a native
    speaker of each, and who both know the subject.

    I think a "contract writer" at Digital may mean something entirely
    than contracting a manual at other places.
    
    In my experience, contract writers function identically to non-contract
    writers - they just happen not to be DEC employees.
    
    The key point IMO is that writers absolutely need regular face-to-face
    contact with the product and the developers in order to produce the
    best documentation.
    
    I think in a more typical contract writing situation that is not the
    case - the writer's office isn't within shouting distance of the
    developer.
    
    It may be possible to produce good documentation that way, but it would
    be hard to convince me that it's not significantly more difficult.
    
    	db

Gavin, (.162):

On my D20, I do as follows to select the PCM sounds:

You have to choose a Timbral sound you can overwrite. When you have this,
you go into EDIT mode and go for TONE, rather than TIMBRE.

With the DISPLAY button choose WG FORM/ PITCH ENV. Press BANK 3 to select
PCM WAVE BANK/NUMBER.

Look in the documentation for which PCM sound you want. Use appropriate
WRITE procedure to store your sound.

PRESTO! (if it works the same way on your synth...)

All others:

I don't find the documentation for my D20 that bad. In fact, after I got
used to it, it's quite easy. But I must admit that I had my problems in
the beginning, but this might as well be due to the fact that I was com-
pletely new to the structure in a synthesizer. After a while, it all 
seems much more logical...

Poul

>You have to choose a Timbral sound you can overwrite. When you have this,
>you go into EDIT mode and go for TONE, rather than TIMBRE.

Therein lies the problem/fear... What do I do with the sound I'm overwriting?
The documentation isn't exactly overclear about temporary sound stores and
permanent sound stores.

Taking the Yamaha DX27 as an example; there are eight banks of non-erasable
sounds and one bank of erasable. You copy sounds from the eight banks into the
other one. MIDI instrument numbers start with the temporary bank so copying is
the only way to get at some of the sounds in the "higher" permanent banks...
It's also non-destructive. 

Gavin

Well, Gavin,

I have to state, all advices that I give you is only what I KNOW works on
my D20...so don't blaim me if you end up with your synth totally screwed
up...
Does your synth include a diskette station? (mine does). If so, make a
copy of the whole setup before you start doing anything. Choose DATA 
TRANSFER and SAVE, then choose ALL with right/left button. After this, go
ahead and do what you want! But I would guess that you have a diskette
with the original setup on it...or you ought to have it :-)...
If you have a diskette, you can see what's on it by doing DATA TRANSFER -
LOAD and then use DISPLAY buttons to look what titles you have on it;
titles with THREE signs as extent (.xxx) cover the whole setup of the
synth, basically i 1-64, r 1-64 and what you have chosen for A/B Multi-
timbral and Performance patches + your drum patterns (P11-P88), as well
as keyboard drum sound assignments...you can't delete a 1-64 and b 1-64,
so don't worry about them...

I won't say RTFM (because I'm a nice person :-)), but give the documenta-
tion a chance...

Good luck!

Poul

I don't have a RAM card so, unfortunately, that's not an option.

>I won't say RTFM (because I'm a nice person :-)), but give the documenta-
>tion a chance...

I have; French and English versions.

Anyone recommend a third-party book?

Gavin

    A couple more dumb D-110 questions:
    
    1.  Can card data be copied into the internal memory of the unit?  Can
    you dump card data by sys-ex directly, or does it have to copied to the
    internal memory first?
    
    2.  From some earlier replies this was unclear:  are you limited at any
    point in time to accessing either internal or card data on a given
    timbre, i.e. is it possible to go from a timbre stored on card to one
    stored in internal memory with a single program change message?
    
    3.  What sort of modulation capabilities are there?  I.e. what sort of
    LFO routings are possible?  I assume envelopes are all dedicated (as
    opposed to Obie and Ensoniq architectures which let you assign
    envelopes wherever you like), is this correct?  Does the D-110 allow
    PWM?
    
    4.   I have heard rumors that sending aftertouch information (which it
    doesn't respond to) to a D-110 can cause the box to lock up, has anyone
    actually ever experienced this?
    
    							Brian

>    4.   I have heard rumors that sending aftertouch information (which it
>    doesn't respond to) to a D-110 can cause the box to lock up, has anyone
>    actually ever experienced this?

I don't know  the  answers  to any of your questions, but I will run home
tonight and send some aftertouch to my D-110 to see if that locks it up -
My D-110 has been locking up  on  occasion,  and  while  I  usually  turn
after-touch off, it is possible that sometimes  I don't.  Somehow I don't
think this is the problem.

/Mitch

>       <<< Note 1396.169 by AQUA::ROST "Mahavishnu versus Motormouth" >>>
>                              -< More Questions >-
>
>    A couple more dumb D-110 questions:
>    
>    1.  Can card data be copied into the internal memory of the unit?  Can
>    you dump card data by sys-ex directly, or does it have to copied to the
>    internal memory first?
>    
    
    Yes, card data can be copied into other "banks". Think of the D-110 as
    having (potentially) three banks of 64 timbres, A, B and CARD. A and B are
    internal. Any timbre can be modified. I don't recall off-hand if you
    can dump timbres directly from the card (I don't use cards, so I've
    never tried it). Technically I don't see any reason why this shouldn't
    be possible, but somehow I suspect it isn't.
    
>    2.  From some earlier replies this was unclear:  are you limited at any
>    point in time to accessing either internal or card data on a given
>    timbre, i.e. is it possible to go from a timbre stored on card to one
>    stored in internal memory with a single program change message?
>    
    
    Yes, there are limits on the accessibility. As I said, I don't use
    cards, but if I remember correctly the card data can *only* be called
    up from the front panel. PG 1-128 always access banks A and B. (That's
    one of the main reasons I don't use cards. Their only value with
    respect to driving the D-110 from a sequencer is as a convenient way of
    storing data off-line. And if your sequencer can already do that, who
    needs cards?)
    
>    3.  What sort of modulation capabilities are there?  I.e. what sort of
>    LFO routings are possible?  I assume envelopes are all dedicated (as
>    opposed to Obie and Ensoniq architectures which let you assign
>    envelopes wherever you like), is this correct?  Does the D-110 allow
>    PWM?
>    
    
    I rarely edit the tones, and I'm no expert on modulation techniques
    (as I'm sure someone will point out). And I'm not sure what you mean
    the the envelopes being "dedicated". My recollection is that they can
    be inserted at several places in the modulation chain, but I suspect
    that it is not as flexible as what you are suggesting.
    
>    4.   I have heard rumors that sending aftertouch information (which it
>    doesn't respond to) to a D-110 can cause the box to lock up, has anyone
>    actually ever experienced this?
>    
    
    I've never done this. Thanks for the warning.
    
    - Ram
    
    
    P.S. : If you want to stop by my place and take a look at the D-110 let
    me know.

    Re: dedicated envelopes
    
    Ram, 
    
    Two examples I'm familiar with:
    
    On a Casio CZ, you have six envelope generators per voice; there are
    two oscillators per voice, and each has an envelope to modulate pitch,
    one to modulate the "filter" and one to modulate the overall amplitude.
    You cannot use these envelopes to do any other kind of modulation.  The
    single LFO performs vibrato effects only.
    
    On an ESQ-1, you have one envelope that is dedicated to the final DCA.
    The other three DCAs, the three oscillators and the single filter all
    accept two modulators.  In fact, the four envelopes and three LFOs also
    accept two modulators.  These modulators are picked from a pool of
    velocity, aftertouch, CV pedal, MIDI CC, keyboard scaling, the four
    envelope generators and the three LFOs.  
    
    I'm assuming the D-110 is closer to the CZ than the ESQ-1 in modulation
    flexibility, but wasn't sure, thus the question about routings.  The
    LFO routing in particular is of interest, LFOs are useful for much more
    than just vibrato effects.
    
    							Brian

>>    2.  From some earlier replies this was unclear:  are you limited at any
>>    point in time to accessing either internal or card data on a given
>>    timbre, i.e. is it possible to go from a timbre stored on card to one
>>    stored in internal memory with a single program change message?
>>    
>    
>    Yes, there are limits on the accessibility. As I said, I don't use
>    cards, but if I remember correctly the card data can *only* be called
>    up from the front panel. PG 1-128 always access banks A and B. (That's
>    one of the main reasons I don't use cards. Their only value with
>    respect to driving the D-110 from a sequencer is as a convenient way of
>    storing data off-line. And if your sequencer can already do that, who
>    needs cards?)
    
Hi Ram.    Correction:   PC 1-128 can also access the card timbres.  I do
this regularly and  this  is  the only thing I use the card for.  I use a
RAM card, not a ROM card - and  I  only really use half of the RAM card -
it allows me to access the third bank of factory  preset  tones which are
otherwise not accessible (unless you use the front panel or  use PATCHes,
neither of which I use).  The restriction is that these  timbres are only
available on parts (channels) which I have preselected.  I suspect that I
have explained all of this in one of the D-110 related Notes.

Brian, I  haven't  been  able  to check on the aftertouch lockup scenario
yet. Maybe someday soon.

/Mitch

Brian,   I just tried sending aftertouch from my MKB-200 - the D-110 did
not lock up.

/Mitch

I wonder if anybody has a comment/solution on this.

On my D20, I've been trying to tweak the drum setup parameters. In detail,
I've been working with the pitch of internal drumsounds r1/r3 (ClsdHiHat/
OpenHiHat), which I think is too low. Furthermore, when r3 has a pitch of
A#3, r1 has one of A3, and you can actually hear the difference (very
clearly). So I wanna set them both to a pitch of, say C4. This is very ea-
sy, just change it, and write it into an 'i' location, then go and edit the 
manual drum setup...

Then, I have the problem:

In the original r1/r3 setup, you first press r3 and then r1 to mute it.
Very efficient, sounds just like a real drummer does it. BUT, when I use
my new substitutes for r1/r3, THIS FEATURE IS ALL GONE: r1 DOES NOT mute
r3 anymore!

First, I tried to fiddle with all kind of tone parameters...finally, I
found out that the feature is burried in the un-writeable r1-r64 locations.

THIS IS VERY ANNOYING! How could Roland do a beef like this! (that's what
we call it in danish :^) )...

Do I have to go inside the machine and cut something? *8-O

Has anybody else noticed this before?

Poul

This appears to be the right place to ask.

According to my manual, the Roland D5 sysex messages are the same as
the D10, but with the reverb removed (and associated values ignored)
and the (mostly useless) keyboard effcts added.  I am (therefore)
convinced that a D10 patch editor will work with the D5, allowing that
the reverb information will be ignored.

Also, there appears to be an assumption going around that the D10 and
the D110 are compatible, but I haven't seen that confirmed anywhere. 
Does this mean that a D110 patch editor will work with with the D5?

The bottom line is that I'm considering getting Dr. T's "Caged Artist"
for the 110, in order to use it on a D5.  It's on sale for $50 bucks. 
I'll be running it on an Atari ST.  I'm also interested in alternatives,
if you have any to offer.

(I'm really interested in editing, not just in librarying.  I'd write
one myself, but I have some other interesting programming ideas I want
to persue.)

    
    
      re .175
    
      Yep, I noticed it also. I too could not stand the closed hi-hat
    and edited and stored a better sounding version, which didn't cancel
    the open hat ring.
      Perhaps leaving them in a patch format, as opposed to including
    them in the drum kit will work. But I doubt it...
    
    
    
    RichC (back from a 2 week jury duty) Can you say deliberation?
                                            I knew you could.     
    
    
    

    re .176 (hi Jeff)
    
    I think I've mentioned in here before, I have both a D-10 and a D-110,
    and they are 99.9% compatible. The D-110 apparently cam out later than
    the D-10, and has a few added features, such as the ability to send
    individual patches out the MIDI port (the D-10 can only dump the entire
    contents of the sound memory, from which you have to extract individual
    patches - both can load individual patches).
    
    The D-110 does not have the built-in rhythm pattern memory.
    
    The D-110 has a set of stereo, as well as 6 mono outputs. Channels can
    be assigned to any of the mono outputs. The D-10 has only stereo outs.
    
    The output on the D-110 doesn't seem to be quite as "hot" as the D-10.
    That is, with the volume on both cranked up all the way the D-10 sounds
    louder.
    
    The only arbitrary incompatibility I've run across is that onthe D-10,
    if you send CC 121 (reset all controllers) it doesn't affect the CC 7
    (volume) setting for the channel. On the D-110 it does. You have to set
    the volume level *after* resetting the controllers.
    
    I don't believe any of these differences would affect anything you are
    planning to do with the D-110. In general I use the D-10 and the D-110
    interchangeably. 
    
    - Ram

Re .178, Thanks Ram.  That's great news.  Combined with what it says
in the D5 programming manual, I'm sure that any D110 patch editor would
work fine with the D5.  I'm going to get Caged Artist and start making
some new sounds.

    Of possible interest to folks planning on using a D-110 with an SQ-80:
    
From: kennyz@pawl.rpi.edu (Kenny Zalewski)
Subject: Problems with SQ-80 and D-110
Date: 20 Sep 90 07:24:17 GMT
 
Hi everyone --
Path: kennyz
 
Here's an interesting problem I'm having, and I hope someone can help.
I just got an Ensoniq SQ-80, and I'm using its sequencer to drive the
rest of my setup.  One of the units which the sequences drives is my
Roland D-110.  I use the D-110 for drums only on this particular track.
 
Here's the problem: after playing the drums for some random period of
time, the D-110 freezes, and its internal memory is totally scrambled.
I have to perform a re-initialization every time this happens (holding
down the write key while turning on the unit.)
 
Originally, I thought that the SQ-80 might be sending Sys-Ex messages
to the D-110 which were re-programming it in some way, causing it to
crash.  Well, I sent the exact same drum tracks thru my Korg M3r, and
after 2 hours, still not crash.  I really suspect that either my D-110
is broken, or that it at least needs an operating system upgrade.  The
current Op Sys in my D-110 is Version 1.06, April 5, 1988.
 
Is anyone else using an SQ-80 with a D-110?  That would be the most
helpful, but any other help at all is greatly appreciated.  Thanks in
advance.  I'll post a summary if responses are sent over E-mail.
 
                                  --- Kenny Z.
 
-- 
Kenny Zalewski
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, 65 13th Street, 1st floor, Troy, NY, 12180
kennyz@pawl.rpi.edu | Kenny_Zalewski@mts.rpi.edu | userfvct@rpitsmts.BITNET

    Brian,
    
    I'd sure appreciate it if you would post any responses to that here.
    
    I'm planning on getting a D-110 and it will definitely be paired with
    my SQ-80.  As this will be mainly for gigs where I can't afford to
    have it freeze up, this note is of great concern to me.
    
    There isn't much you CAN do on an SQ-80 that should cause an SGU
    to freeze up.  It can only send note data, velocity, pressure (both),
    key changes and CC7 (MIDI volume).
    
    I suspect it's a bug in the Roland but if it's a bug that I'm going to
    have problems with, I'd like to know before I shell out for the D-110.

	I've never had a problem with the ESQ-1 as a MIDI controller
	for a D-110 (or MT-32, or U-110 either).  A friend of mine
	had an SQ-80/D-110 combo & used it for quite a while before
	upgrading to an EPS & getting a VFXsd system. I don't recall
	him ever having a problem with the combination (they were
	heavily sequenced & used the D-110's drums a lot).

	The only problems that I've had are where I'm changing channels
	on the ESQ-1 when it is playing back a sequence (ie, I decide that
	instead of sending on channel 1, I decide to shift to channel 14).
	This has hosed up my rack completely more than once. I'd suspect
	that you might have similar functionality in the SQ-80 as the ESQ-1
	in this area. By the way, the only instrument that wasn't messed
	up was my MT-32 (the FB01, U-110 and REX-50 were not at all where
	they were supposed to be - the MIDI reset/panic button on the
	MX-8 was the only thing that stopped the howling). Of course the
	Yamaha SHS-10 has even done worse things to my gear when it
	hiccuped (the MT-32 was quite confused by this).

							Jens

As I've  mentioned  in  here  before,  my D-110 has been "hanging" almost
regularly for the past  6-9 months.  I haven't bothered to gather alot of
data  around  my problem, so I  can't  say  for  sure  whether  it  is  a
D-110-only  problem  or  perhaps a D-110-in-my-system  problem  -  but  I
strongly suspect that it is a D-110-only hardware (not software/firmware)
problem. I'd be very happy if it were an OS problem.

In any case, I don't know what I'd do  without the D-110.  I have alot of
sequences which depend on the D-110 sounds and drum setup.    Some day, I
will either fix or replace the D-110 with another D-110.

/Mitch

    The lockup problem is usually caused by the firmware. I had similar
    problems when downloading patches from a Macintosh. You should have 
    version 1.10. Give Roland a call, the firmware is free.
    
    Dan

Thanks.  I will try to check and see which version I have...

Actually I  tried  the  procedure  mentioned  in .147 once before, and it
didn't work.   Maybe  I  was  doing something stupid.  Can anyone confirm
that the procedure for checking the firmware version mentioned in .147 is
correct?

I do know that I've got a relatively old machine.  I acquired it within 6
months of its introduction.

Thanks,
/Mitch

================================================================================
Note 1396.147      Roland D10 /D110(rackmount) /D20 LA Synths         147 of 184
CHEFS::BAIN "Alex Bain @REO"                         11 lines  10-JUL-1990 12:56
                           -< D110 ROM Version 1.12 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI:-
    
    Latest version of the D110 OS ROM is 1.12                     
                                                            
    To see what version you have got, hold down the first, third and
    fifth buttons on the bottom row and switch on the power.
                                      
    This Rom has apparently been in use for some time now, so unless
    your D110 is an early one, you probably have this version.                     
    
	Alex

    Sorry to but in, but does anyone know the average cost of a D110?
    
    matty

Daddy's had 'em for $399.

Burns

300 pounds U.K.

    Re: SQ-80 compatibility
    
    This from USENET, a followup to the earlier posting about
    incompatibility between the SQ80 and the D110.  Apparently
    poly-aftertouch is fatal but channel aftertouch is OK. Food for
    thought...
    
From: kennyz@pawl.rpi.edu (Kenny Zalewski)
Subject: Re: Problems with SQ-80 and D-110
Date: 26 Sep 90 03:31:32 GMT
 
>Kenny, a letter in the Transoniq Hacker a few issues ago mentioned a "known"
>problem with poly-pressure and the D110.  The D110 doesn't respond to it, of
>course, but supposedly sending it to the D110 could crash it.
>
>                     [... etc ...]
>
 
To Brian, and all others who responded to my problem thru E-mail:
 
Thanks for all the help.  After putting many of your suggestions to work,
this preceeding posting from Brian was the climax.  Sure enough, it was
the after-touch pressure setting on the SQ-80...  I was recording and
sending after-touch, but the D-110 doesn't recognize it, and furthermore,
crashes after a while if I use after-touch.  I checked the D-110 MIDI
implementation sheet, and it appears it can not receive or transmit after-
touch.  However, the unit crashing seems like a bug to me, so I'd still like
to get the Op Sys upgrade.  Anyone know if that bug was remedied in a later
version (post-V1.06)?
 
Anyway, recording without after-touch saves mondo memory, and reduces the
MIDI bandwidth too.  So this should all work out for the better.  My 
advice to you, Brian, is to get the D-110.  It's a nice unit that packs
alot of power in a small space.  What a nice way to end the day!  Thanks!
-- 
Kenny Zalewski
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, 65 13th Street, 1st floor, Troy, NY, 12180
kennyz@pawl.rpi.edu | Kenny_Zalewski@mts.rpi.edu | userfvct@rpitsmts.BITNET

Around FF5500 in France at moderate discount. Translates to a little over
580 pounds or around $950. Thank you, French importers.

Gavin

    
    
     Sam Ash has been blowing them out for $399. The # is 1-800-4SAM-ASH.
    It ain't gonna get no cheaper....
    
    
    
    
    
    RichC
    

    I had a curious thing happen the other night when I was working with my
    D-10 and D-110. I was programming (inputting on the D-10) away when I
    suddenly noticed that the C5 note on the D-110 was stayin on after I
    released the key. I had to change patches to get it to go off. None of
    the other notes were doing this. It didn't happen when I played back
    the sequence, only when I entered it from the D-10.
    
    Then a few minutes later, I noticed the same note staying on in the
    D-10. Only in this case it *didn't* stay on when I played it live, only
    when I played back the sequence. Needless to say I was somewhat
    disconcerted, as this seemed to be a strange electrical problem
    striking both synthesizers at the same time and in almost the same way.
    I eventually gave up and just transposed the sequence down an octave to
    avoid it (see how artistic I am?).
    
    The next day I went back and transposed the sequence up an octave, and
    it worked fine on both synthesizers.
    
    My conclusion is that my town is trying to save energy costs by
    reducing power at night, and I was the victim of something like that.
    I've had similar weird problems in the past with Roland equipment and
    flakey power, as reported in some previous notes. Anyone have any
    better ideas?
    
    - Ram

from .19
 
> The next block in the D110 is called a timbre (was called a patch in the MT)
> There are 128 storage locations in the D110.  Each timbre cooresponds to a
> MIDI program change number and contains several parameters.  The first tells
> which tone is assigned to it: Bank A 1-64, Bank B 1-64, Rhythm tones 1-64
> internal tones 1-64 or memory card tones 1-64.  The second is the keyshift
> parameter which allows the tone to be adjusted up or down by 24 half steps.
> The fine tune, bend range and output assign (stereo mix or individual outs)
> can also be adjusted for each timbre.  So, when you send a MIDI program
> change to a particular channel, the D110 goes and looks in this timbre
> map, pulls out the sound you have selected, sets the keyshift etc and places
> all this in the part associated with that MIDI channel.  Simple huh ?
 
> Now we come to the last block of parameters, patches.  This is something
> which didn't exist in the MT.  Patches are sort of like global setups.
> You specify a reverb setting, the desired timbres for each part and a rhythm
> setup.  You then give this a name and save it in one of 64 locations.  Now,
> by selecting that particular patch, you will load all the parts with the
> timbres you specified, set the reverb and pull in the rhythm setup.  All
> with one command.  Neat huh ?
 
I've just bought a D110, and discovered more timbre memories than I thought. In 
addition to the 128 timbre memories described above, each patch has its own 
seperate timbre memory for each of the 8 parts.  When you call up a new patch, 
you get the 8 timbres that are in the patch timbre memory.  You only get the 
timbres in the 128 location timbre memory when you send a program change 
command to the appropriate part.

For me this means that I can out together a number of patches with unique 
timbres which I can use to layer with my D50 when playing live.  For sequencing 
work, I'll use the timbre memory - always remembering to send appropriate 
program change numbers for each part before the start of any sequence.

BTW, I have also been driving my D110 from the preset rythm/accompianment 
section of a Roland E20.  Some of these are fairly complex, involving complex 
drum rythms and multiple accompianment midi channels with 2 or three program 
change commands per bar.  I've not had any problems with lock-up.  I can't 
remember what version of the OS ROM I've got - it's not the latest, but it 
isnt the earliest one either.

Alex

  Excuse me for not reading through all 193 of these replies, I don't
  any of us who have the time/patience to do that.  I did read the first 20
  or so...

  I've been debating over a D[5]50 / D[1]10 for a while now.  I want that
  famous D50 L/A sound.  (I had a MT-32 but that didn't seem to cut it)

  The D[1]10 is great since it's multi-timbral, indivual outs, etc.
  But is it a "D-50"?  I know the D-50 can have more partials per patch
  than the D-10 and it is said the D-50 has a "cleaner" sound.  But can
  you still get what is considered the D-50 sound from the D-10?

  I had a D110 for a short time, but not long enough to really bang on it.
  Basically long enough to listen to the demos and play a few of the patches.
  Also for a very short time I had a D-50 next to it.  Playing one and then
  the other (although neither extensively) they sounded like two different
  machines.  Granted this has a lot to do with the patches (I didn't have time
  to really match up comparable patches and the D-50 had been updated with
  Vahala patches)  But the sound characteristics were still different enough
  to make me wonder.

  Does the number of partials/cleaner sound make that big of a difference, or
  is there something I'm missing?  Can anyone give an accurate comparison of
  the "sound" of the two architectures, not just the internal "guts"?

  Thanks.

-Tom

    BTW, Roland was recently (and still may be) selling D-50s for <$1K.
    (Like, $995, but still attractive).
    
    len (ecstatic D-550 owner, and no, I'm not interested in parting with
    it).
     

  Yes, I've been quoted $995 at Daddy's, Nashua, and $945 at Carusos.
  However, Daddy's and others has the D-110 for $399.  Granted you get the
  D-50 including keyboard for the higher price, but's it still $600 (over
  2x) as much!  Both are great buys, but which one?????

-Tom

Remember, the D10 doesn't have individual outs, only the D110.

Richard.

  Yes, well I'd rather go rackmount anyways, so I'm looking at the D-110 over
  the D-10.  But this brings me to another question, what happened to the
  D-550?  Why did they stop manufacturing it before the D-50, or did they
  just have that many more D-50s in stock?

  I can't seem to find a D-550.  And since the D-50 is going for <$1K, would
  that mean the 550 would be $700-$800?

-Tom

    
    
      As a D110 owner, I can tell you there is a *big* difference in
    the sound between the D10/110 and the D50.
      The D50 is much cleaner and fuller sounding.
    But if you're looking for a band-in-a-box, the D110's got it beat.
    
    
    

    As far as D-550s go, talking to some dealers I get the impression that,
    despite what seems to be the norm amongst COMMUSIC noters, racks don't
    sell as well as boards.  I'm sure the fire sale on D-50s is to help
    dealers clear the shelves before prices fall further due to the D-70.
    I haven't seen any D-550 blow outs and don't expect to.
    
    The baby D's have totally different sets of partials then the D-50, or
    the MT-32 for that matter.  I'm sure they cut costs soundwise in other
    areas, how else can you make a D-5 list for less than half the list of
    a D-50 if they sound the same?
    	
    								Brian

    The baby-D's have partials which are subsets of the D-50/550.  Only a
    few parameters are missing.  The main difference is in the quality of
    the implementation, mostly apparent as noise.
    
    len (who loves his -550).
    

    Re: .201
    
    I think we may be misunderstanding Rolandese here...the actual PCM
    sample set in the baby Ds is not the same set as in the D50.  From
    stuff I've read in EM, the baby Ds actually have *more* samples than
    the D50 does, and that the MT-32 has yet another set.  Am I incorrect
    in this?  
    
    As far as *programming* the partials into tones, timbres or whatever
    Roland calls them this week, I agree with you, Len.
    
    							Brian

From my original note .147:-
        
    Latest version of the D110 OS ROM is 1.12                     
                                                            
>   To see what version you have got, hold down the first, third and
>   fifth buttons on the bottom row and switch on the power.
    
    I did'nt have a D110 when I wrote this and I thought it only had 5
    buttons on each row.  The buttons you should actually hold down when
    you switch on the power are numbers 4, 6 & 8 on the bottom 
    row. (part, bank & enter).
                                        
>   This Rom has apparently been in use for some time now, so unless
>   your D110 is an early one, you probably have this version.   
    
    In fact the latest version I've actually seen was the new one in
    Kingfisher Music - its version 1.11 (April 89).  The D110 I've got
    (bought used) is vn 1.10 (Aug30 88)
    
    BTW, now I've got a D110 and a D50, I can compare them.  I agree with
    .199 - if you want D50 sounds, you need a D50 - especialy if you've
    already got the MT32 and you dont think thats near enough.
    
    Alex
    

  Thanks, that's what I was looking for.  I was up at Daddy's last night
  playing with their D-50 on the floor and talking to the salesmen. I got
  pretty much the same impression from them.  I have to weigh the importance
  of the barebone "sounds" against the features/price. (In this case D-110
  vs D-50, we're talking around $600, granted the keyboard on the 50 makes
  up for a lot of that, but we're still talking 600 scubs)

  I decided the sound was more important, I have enough multi-timbral
  instruments to suffice, so I'm going with the D-50!  (now to get up
  the scubs...  c'est la vie!)

-Tom

Could some D-110 expert help out this struggling novice, please?  :-)

I finally succumbed and bought a ROM card for the D-110; card PN-D10-03,
"Natural Variations".

I selected timbre C-A23 (tone C11, Sustained A Piano). Manual in hand, I copied
it into I-A11. Looked good, no problems.

When I ran a test piece, I-A11 contained something called "Rich Wood". Panic
sort of set in at this point. I read the manual's list of what's where and the
sheet that came with the card. Could I find any reference to "Rich Wood" to
see what I'd done? No sirree.

So I tried copying another timbre. Again, during the copy procedure all seemed
well. Only, when I came to use the new sound, it was not the one I expected!

So, am *I* doing something wrong or have I got a duff card? (Naturally, I 
prefer the former option...)

Gavin

    
    I have posted the PD MT32 editor for the Atari ST to MIDIlib.  Docs say
    it works for D110 also.
    
    						Brian

I reckon you're not WRITEing it -- are you going throught the protection off
and WRITE procedure? If not, the patch will only be there until you re-select
it, at which time that location reverts to the original patch.

Richard.

>I reckon you're not WRITEing it -- are you going throught the protection off
>and WRITE procedure? If not, the patch will only be there until you re-select
>it, at which time that location reverts to the original patch.

The original patch was Accoustic Piano 2. I'm following the manual carefully.
I'm still confused about where this came from, though... It definitely writes
to the location, since I've switched the unit on and off a number of times.

Gavin

    re .121 &.126
    >  The machine gets a "overall" channel assignment, and each of
    >  the eight "parts" (nine including the drums, stuck on channel 10)
    >  can be set to any channel, or *off**. There is a setting that will
    >  allow you to enable/disable "virtual instrument" type patch changes
    > (patch changes within patches). Catch my drift?.
    
    After months of working with my D110 and reading the manual, I still
    haven't figured out how to disable "virtual instrument" type patch
    changes.  Anybody out there know just how this is done?
    
    Thanks,
    Terry
    

    
    Well, just don't send out patch changes on the channels you've
    assigned sounds to, which requires you to keep one channel open as a
    "control" channel.  
    
    Won't work if you've used up all sixteen channels already.
    
    						Brian

    > Well, just don't send out patch changes on the channel you've
    > assign sounds to, 
    
    Unfortunately, that won't work for me.  I'm using Roland's CA-30
    Intelligent Arranger which automatically sends out patch changes
    for the MT32.  I consistently get FANTASY for bass parts and great
    sounds like ICE BELLS for the lead.  I set up patches with the sounds
    I want, but the CA-30 keeps changing them.
     

    Question; (from a non D20 owner who has occasional use of one)
    
    Let's say I've recorded a bassline into one of the tracks on the
    internal sequencer.  I've seen a guy in a shop edit the parameters of
    the sound while the sequence was playing, using the value slider.  The
    sound he came up with was the `acid House' squelchy sound.
    
    What parameter do I edit?  and how do I record my editing onto that
    sequence?
    
    I apologise for ignorance!
    
    
    matty

    Re: .212
    
    Sounds like you need to check your CA30 manual.  It must have an option
    *somewhere* to let you pick the patches you want. The problem is not
    that it sends out patch changes, it's that it sends out patch changes
    that are *different* from what you want to use.  That's supposed to be
    a helpful feature, i.e. you don't have to remember to set up the
    patches on your module, you let the sequencer do it for you.
    
    							Brian

    RE.-2,
    
    Sorry to press, but I'm going into a studio on Saturday and I really
    need to know how to do this.  I should have said that the sound he
    started off with was a synthetic, sharp attacking, high modulating bass
    sound.
    
    Did I explain clearly?
    
    matty

    I'm sure nobody's purposely ignoring your request, Matt (We just love
    to show off!), but there could be a variety of reasons why there's been
    no response...
    
          "Squelchy" is a vague term, at best. When I think of "squelchy"
          a filter sweep from low to high comes to mind. Not being familiar
          with "acid house" music doesn't help. I frankly don't have any
          idea what you're talking about.
    
          Maybe those who DO know are home diligently digging to respond,
          but just haven't found the answer yet...
    
    Why don't you ask the guy who you saw how he did it? I bet he'd be more
    than happy to share.
    
    I hope the studio you're going to is reasonably priced. The time to
    figure out how to make a sound is NOT when the clock's running...
    
    Best o' luck...
    
    Edd

    Thanks Edd,  The studio costs 5 quid (pounds) for 5 hours!!!!.  It's
    only a D20, 644, Midiverb, Drumkit, Guitars, Amps etc, but it'll do.
    Oh, and an Engineer of sorts.
    
    My problem is I have these 5 hours to write, record and learn to play
    drums!  But my main problem is working out how to get this sound!
    
    I tried to see the guy in the shop last Saturday, but it was soooo
    busy, and I felt really guilty trying to get something for free while
    all these other guys are coming in waiting to buy Guitars and Amps etc.
    
    Let me try to explain.  I pick a bass sound, synth bass as oppsoed to
    guitar type bass.  Then I choose parameter x and and change the values
    while playing.  Parameter x sort of changes the thickness and
    `squechlyness' of the sound.  I can get a similar sound on my little
    PSS680 by changing the modulation value.  If the modulation goes too
    high the sound becomes white noise, if I go too low the sound becomes
    too soft.  Moving about somewhere between these `barrier' values
    produces an almost `acid' sound.
    
    So I need to know what parameter `x' is and how to inflict it upon a
    bassline I've already recorded into the sequencer.
    
    Hope that is a litlle clearer.  (Probably not)
    
    
    matty

    Not having a D-nn synth I could only make guesses as to what parameter
    to diddle, so I won't. 
    
    But, could I offer you a bit of unsolicited advise? Unless 5 pounds is
    not much money to you (I dunno what the $/pd exchange rate is), going 
    into the studio without having your song down COLD could only be
    considered entertainment. (Maybe 5 pounds is a good price for 5 hours
    of fun??)
    
    Ah, what the heck, go for it and have a good time...
    
    Edd

>    considered entertainment. (Maybe 5 pounds is a good price for 5 hours
>    of fun??)
    
Under ten bucks....

Gavin

    Trivial then... go, have fun...
    
    Edd

    1 pound per hour works out cheaper than going to the cinema.  Everyone
    has the chance to go to the cinema though.
    
    I been there 4 or 5 times before, only it was a free course on how to
    use the stuff.  It was supported by the local council.
    
    I've done it before.  I've walked in, made up and recorded a few chord
    changes, put some `tinkly' and `breathy' noises on top and come up with
    one hell of a wildlife documentary piece!  To be honest I have a
    bassline in my head and a few words to throw over the top.  House
    rhythms are all pretty similar, so it won't be too difficult to
    sequence a drum track.
    
    My problem comes with the fact that all I have is the drum track and
    a very repetitive bassline.  This acid noise is one of the ways I plan
    to fill the sound out.  I'll make all the bleeps and chord when I get
    there.
    
    There must be a D20 owner who knows how to do this. :^Z
    
    
    matty  

    
    
      I own a D110, which is the rack version without the sequencer.
    I really don't know what parameter you are talking about, but I
    suspect altering the resonance frequency might produce the effect.
    Alas, I've never heard this "acid house" music, although I may claim
    to have dabbled in psychedelia.
      As for 5 quid for five hours of entertainment, In my single past
    I can honestly say I've spent up to $100 per hour for entertainment,
    although this type was once followed by a trip to the local physician.
    
    
    
    
    RichC
    

So I just ordered a D-110 (Manny's, $399).

I've looked all through (and I mean ALL) the notes with D110 keywords, and
I did not find anyone actually talking about a real, existing, free or shareware
patch editor or librarian, with the exception of Barry Scott, who said something
about writing one.  However, I have seen nothing about availablilty. I wrote
to Barry.

There is an MT32 librarian in MIDILIB which I have grabbed.

Does anyone know of anything else around?

Thanks,

Burns

Forgot to mention that I am looking for D110 s/w on an IBM PC.

Burns

Well, I got my D-110 on Friday (amazing!  Manny's told me they would ship it
Thursday; they actually got it out Wednesday and UPS got it here on Friday.
So I had a fun weekend, but not enough time.

Anyway, I am going through this topic for exciting tidbits, and every now
and again, I come up with an unanswered question that I can now answer.

Here is the first one:

re: 149

Sierra supplies a D110 driver via their bulletin board.  You need to get
D110.COM and KQ4PATCH.COM (for example).  When run, these self-extract into
some only vaguely readable documentation and D110.DRV and PATCH000.DAT.  Put
these into the game directory and you are off and running.  CAUTION:  They
apparently write into TIMBRE memory.  Save your stuff.  Also, I tried just
pretending it was an MT32 with the existing drivers.  It was only mediocre,
although it did, once again, manage to write all over TIMBRE memory.  This
was before I had saved it too.

Burns

re 213:  I think what you want to do is to not fool around with (I am using
Rolandese here) patches, but instead set up your Timbre memory to match an
MT32.  When you send patch changes over a channel, that replaces the TIMBRE
selection for the part(s) listening to that channel.  If you use the Timbre
memory to act like a translation table between D-110 sounds (Tone) numbers and
MT-32, that should do that trick.

Burns

So what the heck good is write protect?  Sysex memory writes seem to work with
total disregard for write protect.  Doing it from the front panel seems to only
pay lip-service (you have to push "WRITE" one extra time).

Burns who had his Timbre memory overwritten almost before the D110 was out of
	the box!

aaaaaagh!  A new toy!  I need to talk about it!!!!

This is so much fun!  I plugged my DH100 into it (via Cakewalk which changed
the midi channel for me) and tried a lot of the different sounds.  What a kick!
And some of them are sooooooo good!  (Unfortunately, the woodwinds are pretty
mediocre.)

Anyway, with some exceptions, I'm not sure this thing is so mysterious as all
that.  The memories seem ~straightforward.  There is a bunch of current state
memories that hold all the current tone assignments, performance parameters,
and stuff.  All this stuff together is called a patch, and you can store some
number of complete patches.  They only refer externally to tones.  You can
load a patch into the current state by sending a patch change message over a
particular channel selected from the front panel.  Don't select one of the
channels in use or strange things may happen!

You can replace bits and pieces of the current state as well.  For example,
you can replace the current sound assignment, various performance parameters,
and stuff like the assignment of midi channels.  There is a unit of interest
here called a PART which essentially groups the parameters of which midi channel
to listen to, what note range to listen to, where to locate the sound in the
stereo output, etc.  There are no memories of these except in patches.

You can store combinations of (sound, a few other parameters) in a separate
memory called TIMBRE memory.  You can load a TIMBRE into the current state
by a patch change command.

And finally, you can edit sounds (called Tones).  There are 128 of these in ROM,
and another 64 (I think) that you can play with in RAM.  You can also buy
ROM and RAM to plug in and get more.

Did I miss something?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, the real question I have is this: I kept having funny things happen
to me.  Like notes not sounding, patches not changing, etc.  I traced it down
to some parts getting changed to "OFF".    The question is, how did this happen?
Presumably some SYSEX messages could do it, but I don't think that any such were
sent.  I'm wondering if there are any "generic" control message sent on a
channel that could do it.  I know I was playing one song which was written
for the MT-32 that sent controller messages (I think they were bender range,
but that's another question.)  Can any controller message (other than a patch
change on the system channel) mess up the part's channel assignments?

Burns

Plus another question:  It looks to me from studying the D-100 midi
implementation documentation that in order to send a bender range, you have to
send two separate control messages, one with the LSB of the "parameter address"
and of the data, the other with the MSB of them.  I have a song which was
designed for the MT-32.  I played around with the TIMBRE memory (which I
think of as more of a translation table than anything) so that it looked like
the MT-32.  Then I ran the song.

WEIRD things happened.  Lots of notes stuck on, plus maybe the weird things
from .-1 were caused by this.

Looking at the song, however, I discovered that it was apparently sending
these bender range control sequences only 1 at a time, not in pairs.  So
the questions are:  Does this work?  If not, what will happen when you do
it?  Did this change from the MT-32?  In general, are non-SYSEX stuff more-or-
less standardized?  I.e. does bender-range work the same on all machines?  In
particular, should I expect everything but SYSEX and the tone assignments to be
react the same between an MT-32 and a D-110?

Thanks,

Burns

Final question for today:

What WAS the initial value for the various memories?  I am tempted to initialize
it just for the heck of it.  Does this really get me back to how it came in the
box, or is it worse than that?

What was the initial state?  Was Timbre memory set up to map 1-1 with tone
memory?  What about patch memory?  The all seem to be named "Patch 1" etc,
but were they all set identically?  How about the writable tones?

Anyway...I've been monopolizing this note for several days now, but I'm kind
of excited.  You can break the monopoly!

Thanks for any answers/comments.

Burns

Well, I guess everyone is kind of bored with this old-technology stuff, but I
thought I would make a report for future reference:

1.  D110s are now available from both Manny's and Sam Ash for $399.  Manny's
is a bit of a pain 'cuz you have to either take it COD or else fax them
a picture of your credit card (and then they STILL insist on the shipping charge
being COD.  I don't know if Sam Ash is any different.  Ash probably has fewer
of them, though.  A salesman just called to tell me that the just got "a few"
in.

2.  The D-110 I got from Manny had fairly old firmware.  Pressing the buttons
1, 3, and 5 on the bottom row ***counting from the RIGHT*** while powering up
tells you the firmware number and date.  Mine was 1.07 dated in 1988.  I called
Roland in LA and their service dept. sent me a new ROM with no trouble.  It
is version 1.13, dated March 1990, if I remember right.

3.  The 1.07 firmware has a serious problem with SYSEX.  It seems that if you
ask for a dump of part of a memory bank (say you ask for a single tone memory),
it starts where you ask, but it dumps the entire rest of the memory from that
section.  (I.e. ask for tone 1, you get the entire bank of tones).  PITA!  1.13
fixes it.

Burns

            <<< DNEAST::SYS$TOOLS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COMMUSIC.NOTE;2 >>>
             -< * * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * * >-
================================================================================
Note 2693.0                   D10 additional voices                   No replies
WOTVAX::JARROLDP "Peter Jarrold"                     21 lines  30-JUL-1991 11:22
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a D10 midi'd to an Atari 1040STe with cubase, satellite 
switcher and band in a box.

I would like to be able to down load some different voices to the 
D10 but am not sure what this will do to the D10 standard voice 
set.

Will downloading additional voices overwrite existing sets?

If so, is there a way I can retain the standard D10 patches to 
put back if I wish?

Is there a way of restoring original D10 patches on power up?

As you can gather I do not really understand what makes the 
technology tick but my defence is that I really bought it to 
play keyboard HONEST!!!

Forever hopeful

Pete Jarrold

            <<< DNEAST::SYS$TOOLS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COMMUSIC.NOTE;2 >>>
             -< * * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * * >-
================================================================================
Note 2692.9                Note frequencies please ...                    9 of 9
GLDOA::AGBEBIYI                                      15 lines  30-JUL-1991 12:21
                           -< Storing Sounds on D10 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Pete,
    
    I assume the D-10 has a card slot. If it does, then you are going to
    need two cards of which at least one must be RAM( I personally suggest  
    two RAM cards). One card will have the new sounds you want to use and
    the other one is the one you will need to store your original sounds.
    
    All you have to do is write your original sounds on one RAM card
    (M-256, I think) and load the new sounds from the other card into it.  
    Whenever you want the original sounds back, just load the first RAM card.
    
    
    
    Wiston
    

Hi Pete !

I suggest you have a look at the Cubase Tips and Tricks note somewhere in this
notesfile. This addresses EXACTLY what you want to do. Even though I use
different synths, a friend of mine has pretty much the same equipment that you
have and it works very well. It's cheaper, more comfortable and less error
prone than the RAM card approach.

	best regards

		Richard

    The card situation is as follows (at least on my D5 which is an almost
    identical machine).
    
    Rom cards are available which offer extra voices for the D10. If you
    want to use one you just plug it in and tell the D10 to select voices
    off the card (there should be an INTERNAL/CARD selector button). You
    will not overwrite the internal sounds this way and therefore do not
    need to save them to a ram card first. It IS possible to dump sounds
    off the card to internal memory (therefore overwriting the internal
    sounds) but I can see no value in doing this, since the sounds can be
    accessed just as quickly off the card.
    
     However, as a later reply suggests, cards are very expensive so if you
    can find a way to dump sounds over midi to and from Cubase then this
    would be much preferable. I do this using an atari and my own library
    program written in GFA basic (not finished yet though!). I have
    hundreds of D5/D10/D20 patches on disk which if all stored on rom cards
    would have cost a fortune. Beware, though, as dumping sounds into the
    synth across midi may well overwrite the internal memory (it doesn't
    have to, as Roland uses temporary memory areas to hold the patch the
    synth is currently playing, but unless you know what the software is
    doing it's better to backup your D10 first).
    
    You should be able to back up the D10 by selecting midi bulk dump and
    recording the dump straight into Cubase.
    
    Hope it helps,
    
    tony I
                                             

    Thanks for your response Richard.
    However having looked in the Cubase Tips and Tricks notes my problem is 
    unresolved.
    Any more ideas?
     Kind Regards
    Pete
    

Hi Pete !

Confused. You said you have an ATARI and a D10 and would like to be more
flexible in accessing your sounds. Did I get that right ?

If yes, I would do a dump of all presets and the default system setup using
Cubase Satellite. If that's unclear how to do, I'll have my friend giving me
some more info about the Roland specifics. The Satellite commands are the same
as described in that note. 

I would recommend to make similar dumps for individual songs. Dumping a bunch
of single sounds and single patches (as opposed to a dump EVERYTHING) saves you
some transmission time when loading them again. But it may just be 5 sec
instead of 15 sec.

If you want to know more about the Satellite specifics, I would suggest to
transfer it to the Cubase note (so that it doesn't get lost for Cubase users).

	best regards

		Richard

The original question was "Will I overwrite my built-in sounds" right?

If so, then the answer is:

Ignore the ram card for the moment.  In the basic model there are something
like 256 built-in sounds in ROM.  These are the most commonly used sounds and
CAN NOT be overwritten, no matter what you do.  In addition, there is space
for another 256-or-so (maybe it's 128) user-supplied sounds.  These you can
write over.  Now the catch is that these RAM spaces come from the factory filled
with some additional sounds.  This is undocumented if I remember right.  In any
case, these WILL get written over if you load your own sounds.  I'm not sure
it is all that much of a loss, actually.  However, you can back them up first
as suggested earlier.  Also, you can get the back by running the hidden reset
sequence.  I forget what it is...something like push button 5 and 7 with your
left toe while standing on your head during a full moon.  It is probably in this
note though.

Burns

I could use help with the hidden reset sequence.  When I
initially backed up my D5 there was a bug in the OS which
did not dump some of the sounds correctly, so they could
not all be restored.

Burns, did you write the note on the reset sequence or
do you remember reading about it from someone else in
this conference?  I looked through your notes and some
(but not all) others in this note and couldn't find the
reference.

Thanks,
Michael

No, I did not write it.  I thought I had extracted it, but I don't have it
hanging around anymore.  I would not be surprised if it were in this note
or one of the other LONG d110 notes.

I don't know if any of this is relavent for a D5, though.

Burns

    
    
      Reference replies .21 and .74 for info about initializing a D110.
    Be careful...practice sysex.
    
    
    RichC
                                

I recently bought Opcode's Galaxy Librarian and Editor for the Mac and
was playing around with it over the weekend. I understood more about the
inner workings of the D-110 after ten minutes with Galaxy than after three
days of reading Roland's "documentation". It's a universal editor, in that
it knows about a lots of gear, but each editor is specific to your setup
which you define at the beginning.

I renamed a load of patches in just a few minutes and had dumped backups of
everything onto disk in seconds.

I wish I'd bought it sooner.

Gavin

    I don't agree with some of the technical information in some of these
    replies. Here's the way I see it (and I'm prepared to be shot down!!!).
    
    Firstly, as far as the tone generator is concerned, D5=D10=D20. Patches
    are fully interchangable between the 3 machines, as are ram cards. The
    only differences are on-board effects and addition of sequencer and
    reverb in the more expensive models.
    
    The basic "sound" of the units is called a TONE. There are 4 banks:
    
    BANK A: ROM   64 presets, cannot be overwritten
    BANK B: ROM   64   "       "      "    "
    BANK I: RAM   64 user programmable. 
    BANK R: ROM   64 preset drum/rhythm sounds
    
    Tones can be arranged into 128 Timbres (in multi-timbral mode) or 128
    patches (in performance mode). A timbre is 1 tone+performance
    parameters. A patch is 2 tones split or layered + performance
    parameters. You can only hear a tone by creating a patch or timbre
    which uses it. Patches and timbres only let you re-arrange the preset
    sounds, to change the basic sounds the machine makes you have to load a
    new set of tones into bank I and create a patch or timbre to use them.
    
    When you load new tones they go into bank I. The unit comes from the
    factory with 64 tones loaded into this bank which are not stored
    anywhere else on the machine and therefore cannot be restored, except
    from a backup copy. (IE not through an init.) I find the presets in
    bank I contain the better of the factory sounds, so they are worth
    preserving.
    
    FWIW,
    
    tony

I have a D-110, not a D10, so I don't know if there are diffs, but I disagree
with .243 on only a couple points:

1.

    Tones can be arranged into 128 Timbres (in multi-timbral mode) or 128
    patches (in performance mode). A timbre is 1 tone+performance
    parameters. A patch is 2 tones split or layered + performance
    parameters.


I don't think there is a "performance mode" on the D110.  You can set a mode
that decides what it does with multiple "start notes" of the same note, but
I don't believe it makes any change in Timbre vs Patch.

My description of this stuff is that a Timbre is a tone+ a set of perf.
parameters, and it is a Timbre which gets selected by a MIDI patch select
command.

A patch is like a global setup.  It includes the assignments of channel to
instrument (which is yet another characteristic), the initial timbres and
their definitions, etc.  You can have a timbre in a patch which is not in
Timbre memory.  However, you can also load a patch and then do a midi "patch
select" (note 2 different uses of the word patch) to select a new timbre.  I
thought the book had quite a nice picture of this whole thing (one of the few
good points, I guess)


2.  I'm reasonably sure that an init brings back the factory loaded tones.  I
believe this because some software that I was using (all right, all right...it
was a game, if you must know) scrambled up the I bank before I figured out how
to save stuff.   However, I'm pretty sure I got it back from init.  Now that I
am all backed up, I'll have to try it again.



Burns

    FWIW:  Init definitely brings back the initial factory preloads in RAM
    on a D110.  I can't vouch for a D10, though several notes in here have
    said that it does not.
    
    Burns

    I've got a D5 and haven't yet discovered the reset sequence so I can't
    test it. The reason I doubted the keyboard could ever recover the
    factory sounds is that Roland supply quite detailed memory maps at the
    back of the manual and every last byte seems accounted for, so I
    couldn't see where the factory sounds could be stored (other than in
    RAM).
    
    If anyones knows the D-5 key sequences then I'll give it a go!
    
    Tony

    Re: .246
    
    Many manufacturers use a "shadow ROM" which lets you reload the RAM
    area with the factory patches.  Other than using the reload procedure,
    you can't access the ROM.  The Roland TR-505 drum machine has this
    feature.
    
    							Brian

    Aha!  Thanks for the info!
    
    Tony

    For D5/10/20/110 owners, here's a source of some patches located on the
    USENET.  If you don't have anonymous ftp access go find some ULTRIX
    wizard to help you out. No idea what sort of format these might be in. 
    Have fun!!!
    
    
From: mami@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Manfred Mirsch)
Subject: Soundbanks for ROLAND D5, D10 keyboards uploaded to 'ucsd.edu'
Date: 28 Aug 91 12:46:58 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
 
Grueazi Mitannand !
 
Since I asked for ftp-sites with sounddata for the ROLAND keyboard D5
about six weeks ago, I received some more requests for such a ftp-site,
spent two weeks sailing on the Eastern Sea between Germany and Sweden
and finally got the tip to look at ucsd.edu.
 
The sounds for the D5 and D10 are compatible and are stored under
 
	/midi/patches/D10.
 
I uploaded 13 soundbanks to that directory and a short .doc file.
 
I would appreciate if anyone who has different sounds would also upload
them to this place and send me a mail or announce it in the newsgroup.
 
Manfred.

    Manfred,
    
    any chance of making the patches you uploaded available on the easynet?
    I don't know how to get stuff off usenet and it would save me having to
    find out!!
    
    Tony

Well, Tony, I know how you feel, but unfortunately, Manfred is not a reader of
this conference...he works at the Technical University of Berlin, not DEC.

I bet someone can get these files and announce it here.  (Please?)

Burns

    Whoops! Just re-read the original note and realised it was someone
    posting a mail message  from someone else, hence the confusion (I got
    so engrossed in the idea of downloading D5 patches off easynet I didn't
    realise this the first time!!)
    
    Tony

I think I found out how to get them, although it may take a few days.  I'll let
you know when/if.  I guess I should put them in midilib if I actually get them.

Burns

    Yes, let us know.
    
    PS Where's midilib??
    
    Tony I (novice commusician!)

There is a disk kept by Dan Gosselin (spelling) where there is a bunch of PD
software that people from the conference deposit.  I can't remember the full
address, but there is a note about it somewhere.

All I've gotten so far are a few non-interesting help files.  I've just not
had the time to get the real thing, but soon...

Burns

Ok, I got it, but it is not tested.  Look through note 16 to see about midilib.
The quick scoop is:

midi::midi$dka100:[midilib...]

I put the stuff in [.DEPOSIT].  Presumably, Dan will move them to [.PATCHES.D10]

Burns

    The files (as Burns guessed) are now in MIDI::A$:[MIDILIB.PATCHES.D10]
    
    Have fun,
    Dan
    

    

	Hi, I've downloaded them but they don't seem sysex files.

	I was expecting the usual sysex header at the beginning of
	files but it begins with "bank.bk1" or something like that
	and then a lot of hex data that does not look like sysex msgs.

	Did I miss something obvious?
	Are these files encoded in some (unknown to me) way?


	BTW I've managed to blow away the internal tone #1 #2 of my D5
	Is there any kind soul that would like to send me those two tones
	in a sysex file?

	Thank you
		Roberto Milos


	

Well, like I said, I did not test them.  They claim to be downloadable with
any librarian, and certainly the D110 uses sysex to define "tones".  There
is a part of the sysex command that names each tone. Could that be the "bank.bk1"
stuff?

BTW, it was *I* who put the "SYX" extension on them since I had no idea what
else to name them.

I wonder if they might be data in the format for some librarian or other.

=============

Finally, I'm reasonably sure that the UUencoded data came over ok since I had
no checksum errors or anything when I decoded them.  However, it is conceivable
that the result of UUDECODE did not produce a file that your upload program
liked.  In fact, I notice that they are variable length, and most times uploading
like fixed 512.

If you have a uudecode program on your PC, I'd be happy to mail you the UUencoded
version to try.  It's a lot more data to upload, though.

Burns

	Burns,
	
	Also in my opinion those files are from a particular librarian,
	and "bank1.bnk" the name of the tones collection.

	This comes from the affinity between those files and those 
	generated by MusicX on my Amiga.

	But what is really funny to me, is that there are no other ascii 
	strings that could be interpreted as tone names, in the whole file.
	Perhaps that librarian compress the data when writing on the disk!
	
> If you have a uudecode program on your PC, I'd be happy to mail you the UUencoded
> version to try.  It's a lot more data to upload, though.

	Thank you for the offer, I'd like to try them,
	 but I'm pessimistic! :-)

> Burns

	Roberto.

    Well, I can't seem to find any good PD patch librarians so I'm off in
    SYSEX land writing my own. I have 2 questions:
    
    How can I find out the OS version of my d110?? The previous replies say
    something about holding the edit and data transfer buttons  while
    turning the machine on. I have an edit button but I don't have a data
    transfer button. I have tried holding the edit button in conjunction
    with evry other button on the front panel but nothing works.
    
    In looking thru the manual at the midi implementation, it appears that
    you can only ask for the (64 tone) internal tone bank. I want to ask
    for the (128 tone -- 2 banks at 64 tones each) preset tone bank(s).
    Does anyone know if this is possible??
    
    Thanks,
    Jim
    

To get the OS version on a D110, go to the bottom row of buttons and push the
first, third, and fifth button *FROM THE RIGHT* while you power on.  I think
the latest rev is 14 (?)

I don't know of any way to get the preset tones, unless maybe you load them
into a patch, and then fetch the patch.

Burns

Keep us up to date on your progress, btw.  If you want FT sites, you will prob-
ably get volunteers here.

Burns

Roberto,

You might also send mail to the guy in Berlin who originated the patches to
see what format they are in.

Also, the UUencoded files are in the mail.

Burns

    I got a question on the D20.
    
    When I do a sequence and adjust each tracks pan and volume via the
    dub function and then save it to disk and then reload I lose the volume
    settings. What am I doing wrong??
    
    Thanks in advance
    P.K.

Volume is CC 7, and pan is CC 10. You have to send out controller info to
the midi channels (like you have to send program change messages to set
the patch).
								Jens

    RE -1
    
    	Thanks for your reply but I am still confused.  I am not using an
    external sequencer but the one built in. What is cc 7 and cc 10 are
    they some sort of midi change info like program change messages.
    
    Thanks P.K.

    
    
      "cc" stands for "continuous controller". They are messages, usually
    containing a variable from 0 to 127.
      I'm fairly sure you can't incorporate them into your sequences using
    the fairly limited (sorry 8^} ) internal D20 sequencer. But your D20
    will respond to them using another sequencer, or an "expression" pedal
    capable of transmitting them.
      For example, a pedal set to *transmit* cc10 (pan on the D20) on a
    certain midi channel would move that sound source through the stereo
    field as it was being depressed.
      Somewhere in this notesfile is a listing of the various cc's and what
    they control. Be aware...certain synths respond to some cc's, and thumb
    their noses at others. =8^)
    
    
    RichC
    
       

    I have another question:
    
    Are the presets read-only?
    
    I got confused reading previous notes about restoring the presets. All
    I can see in the d-110 is a bank of 64 tones that can be changed (the i
    bank). There are 2 other banks (A and B) and I assume these can not be
    changed??
    
    Since the i bank is the only one that can be changed, I can hard-code
    the tone names from the A and  B banks into my program. I can then ask
    the d-110 about what it has stored in the i bank. Then I will have a
    complete list ofall tones the d-110 know about (except the card).
    
    Does that sound correct??
    
    THanks,
    Jim
    

Yes, the A and B bank are read only.  The question in the previous notes was
whether you can read the definitions of the tones in the A & B bank.  You might
want to do this in order to "tweak" them and write the result back into the i
bank.

Burns

	Re: .264

	Finally I've been able to understand the files format!!!
	It was archive format that my own file-type-recon utility 
	didn't understand (don't ask me why :-))

	Any way I have just extracted a bunch of sysex midi files and
	this week-end I'll try them all.

	Stay tuned.

	Ciao,
		Roberto.

Great!  Do you mean they were compressed like zip files?

Burns

> Great!  Do you mean they were compressed like zip files?
>
>Burns

I don't know zip format but they *are* compressed.

The result is 12 .bnk files with 64 tones each, no patches/timbre setup,
only tones.

A lot of them anyway, it will take a lot of time to try all (?) the possible 
combination.

Cheers,
	Roberto

    Can someone give me a hand?
    
    Could someone who owns a D20 please tell me if they overdub pan and vo
    lume messages on a track on a sequence if when that song is saved to
    disk and restored the pan and volume settings are returned.
    
    	Secondly when I spoke to Roland here in Australia they said that
    a ROM upgrade might cure the problem.  The latest version is 1.12 and
    I am running 1.10.  Does anyone know the differences and if my problem
    will be cured.
    
    	You can tell what version you have by powering up with the data
    transfer and edit buttons.
    
    I would really appreciate someones hlp.
    

    Ok, here's another question: In going thru the midi implementation spec
    for the d-110, it has foot notes about not being able to access some of
    the memory via midi. Does anyone have more info on this??
    
    What I want to do is ask the d-110 about its internal timbres and
    tones (bank i) and the ones on the card (bank c). Is there a problem
    with this via midi?? 
    
    Are there any 3rd party books about the d-110 midi implementation??
    
    THanks,
    Jim
    

    Just from memory (and I haven't done this for awhile), I don't think
    there should be any problem dumping timbre and tone memory from the
    D-110. I vaguely recall that there was some limitation compared to the
    D-10 of accessing the memory for rhythm patterns, because the D-110
    isn't programmable in that respect like the D-10. I distinctly remember
    that I once went to a store, had them load tones from a ROM card into
    memory, then took the D-110 home and dumped it via SYSEX. If you can't
    figure it out let me know, and I'll try to restore my own memory.
    
    - Ram

    You can certainly read and write Bank i.  In the Roland manual, page
    117, you can see the addresses for this (Tone memory 1-64).  I don't
    believe you can read either the rom tone memory or the card, though you
    may be able to copy from the card to "i" and read from there.  I don't
    have a card, so I have not tried copying from/to it.
    
    Burns
    

    re. .271
    
    Any chance of uploading the unscrambled files back onto the net, or at
    least let us know how to uncompress the files? I don't have a file
    de-compression utility so if it is a standard algorithm, would it be
    simple for me to hack up my own decompression routine??
    
    Tony

	Re:.-1
	
	Yes I'll put them on midilib look for files named 
	"*.bnk".

	Anyway be sure to save your i-bank before uploading them
	to your rag, or you'll lose it.

	Cheers,

		Roberto	
	

	Here they are:


Directory MIDI::A$:[MIDILIB.PATCHES.D10]

1ST_README.TXT;1    ANOTHER.BNK;1       BANK_1.BNK;1        BANK_10.BNK;1      
BANK_2.BNK;1        BANK_3.BNK;1        BANK_4.BNK;1        BANK_5.BNK;1       
BANK_6.BNK;1        BANK_7.BNK;1        BANK_8.BNK;1        BANK_9.BNK;1       
D10BANK1.SYX;1      D10BANK2.SYX;1      D10BANK3.SYX;1      D10BANKS.TXT;1     
D10DUMP.ARC;1       D10TON.ARC;1        D10VOX.ARC;1        D110.BNK;1         
D20.BNK;1           

Total of 21 files.
	    

	Roberto.

Thanks for making the uncompressed version of all this stuff available.  It looks
to me like D110.BNK is actually the factory-supplied patches, btw.

In all this stuff, along with hundreds of the usual "Raunchy Mellophone" and
"SpitAccordian" were 10 or 20 patches that I really liked, including a half
decent clarinet, flute, and trombone.  I still haven't found an oboe that I
like, though!  If anyone has a good (read realistic, in my view) one, please
let me know!

Finally, these .bnk files were able to be read by Cakewalk.  However, when I
sent them, I got a checksum error.  I think the error occurred only on the last
block sent in most of them, so I probably missed 1 or 2 tones in each bank.

Burns

Has anyone heard of a problem similar to this with their D110?

I was using the trumpet patch (yes, I know...TONE) from the stuff mentioned in
the past few notes, and I discovered a strange thing.  If you play the trumpet
by itself, all is well.  However, if you play another instrument on another
channel at the same time, the trumpet goes el strango.  If you know turn of the
other instrument, the trumpet stays el strango.  I'll describe el strango as well
as I can:

It is first, much lower volume.  Second, the tone quality is somewhat different,
though it is hard to describe.  Not as bright, I guess, but really a more
significant difference than that.  And finally (and this is *REALLY* weird), the
odd sounds seems to alternate more-or-less every other note with the correct
sound.  I say more-or-less because I don't think that is the exact algorithm.
It is something more complicated like "if this note is the same as the last
note then don't switch from weird to normal.  Otherwise switch (except if ????)"

The only way to get it back to normal mode is to power cycle.  Reloading the tone
from tone memory does not help.  Also, no other tones seem to have this problem.

Burns

And while we are at it on the D110, one of my favorite tones from the aforemen-
tioned bunch of tones is the Flute.  I had to edit it a bit (bring the PCM
down an octave), but it sounds pretty good.  Except...

The PCM attack is really quite noisy.  If you run a lot of quick notes it is
especially noticable...lots of clicks.  Is this what people complain about with
the MT32/D110?  If the D110 is better, I'd hate to hear the MT32!  In any case,
I have not especially noticed stuff like this with the factory-supplied patches.
That implies to me that there must be some tone parameters that exaggerate it.
Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there a filter parameter that tends to increase/
reduce these kinds of noises (which sound like switching transients, btw).

Thanks!

Burns

    Re: .283
    
    First question is how many notes are being played and how many partials
    do each tone use?   If they each use four partials and you have more
    than eight notes sounding, you may simply be a victim of voice stealing
    (i.e. you've run out of oscillators).  
    
    							Brian

    Dunno about the D110 specifically, but if you are in a solo mode with,
    say, a flute it may be possible to introduce the clicks when notes from
    an external MIDI source overlap.  As to the original problem, my WAG is
    that you may have bad sysex going around.  Always practice safe sysex.
    Another possibility is that your controller is sending a "control
    channel" note as well as your regular note.  The D70 can do this.  I
    suppose that under some circumstances this could be a feature ...
    
    Steve

re 285:  I think that both voices use 4 partials.  However I played these babies
in with a DH100.  There is only one note at a time per channel.  I tried it with
only the trumpet and one other instrument.  Therefore, there should be plenty of
partials around.  I suppose it is possible that there is somewhere a missing
note-off with a channel control being sent to mute the sound instead, but that
seems a bit farfetched, since everything works fine except this one tone.  I'll
try another tone with the same number of partials, though.  I can't remember if
I did that experiment.

re 286:  I'm not sure what "solo mode" means.  However, I have only my sequencer
and the D110 running.  No other midi source.  Safe sysex is a good concept.  I
don't THINK that is it, since it seems like any other channel (which translates
to a Cakewalk track) is playing it triggers the odd behavior.  I'll have to
try a completely different sequence file.

Thanks for the ideas...If anyone has more, keep 'em coming!

BTW, I don't know if I said this, but the flute is composed of 4 partials, each
pair consisting of 1 PCM and 1 square wave in ADD mode.  In fact the 1/2 pair
and the 3/4 pair are set up essentially identically.  It is very clear that the
transients are coming from the PCM part, because if I turn both these partials
off, it stops.  (Of course, I don't get the attack sound either!)  Turning on
either or both PCM partial causes the noise again.  It is Flute Low, btw.

Burns

Hi Burns !

I had similar symptoms caused by my breath controller. It seems that when the
sensitivity is set high enough, then a lot of controller changes are send. In
my case the TG55 cut some notes. I think that the DH100 sends aftertouch
instead of BC, but the effect could be the same, which is too many MIDI events
for the processor of the SGU.

	Richard

    Re: .287,.288
    
    In fact, the D-10 family has had known problems when fed lots of
    aftertouch data, such as the DH100 would generate.  Ensoniq keyboards
    sending poly aftertouch (which generates *tons* of data) have been
    documented as easily crashing and hanging D110s, for example.
    
    Try running the DH-100 into your sequencer with the THRU function set
    on, and set the controller filter of your sequecner (it has one,
    right?) to filter OUT all aftertouch messages and see if you still get
    the same symptoms.
    
    Just something to try.
    
    						Brian

Hmmm.  That's a good thing to check.  I have not been playing directly into
the D110, and I *thought* that I had filtered out the aftertouch messages from
.wrk file.  However, I will double check.

More news:   Last night I was able to reproduce the problem with a completely
different sequence.  I think this eliminates unsafe sysex, since the sequence
file is where said stuff would be stored.

Also, I did not have any trouble with another 4-partial tone.  Just the trumpet.

And finally, I discovered that I can trigger the problem another way.  I have
only a single channel active, one note at a time.  I have trumpet on one channel,
something else on another.  I switch the outgoing channel from the one with 
trumpet to the one with other, and then back.  This triggers the trumpet to act
weird.

Sounds like a bug to me folks!

Thanks for any more ideas on this or the noisy pcm...

Burns

	I know this isn't any help, but I too have noticed this phenomenon (bug).
        The particular tone was a bass (SlapBass/FatBass ?) on Part 1.
        I tried everything to eliminate it without success. Definitely a bug.

Jim

Jim, was this one of the built-in tones, or a home-brew job?  I'd love to be
able to get them to reproduce it.  Also, does it only happen on part 1?  I don't
think that was the case for me, but I'll check

BTW, I called Roland Tech support.  They were sympathetic but not
especially helpful.  Said I could send them the patch and they would look.  Ok,
fine...I'll send a sysex file from Cakewalk.  Sorry, all we have around here are
Macs.  Groan.

Does anyone know what I might be able to send them which they could read on a
Mac?  Or if Jim can reproduce this w/o a special patch, that is even better!

Burns

It's a while since I had the problem, but I think I have a sequence which shows 
it up.
I think it was a home-brew patch, not a ROMmer. 
If I find it, I'll put together a sysex + sequence.

Jim