Conference napalm::commusic_v1

	It looks like there's still room on the tape, right?  I just finished 
(last night) the final session on the piece I am submitting.  All I need to do
now is copy it and get it in the mail.

	Dan

    Congrats, Dave.
    	
    When are you going to incorporate yourself as a record label? :-)
    
    (hey, how much does it cost to get a vinyl master made, and a hundred
    copies pressed?  :-)  )
                          
    	-Bill
    

    
    re .2
    
    I already asked,  he said he wasn't interested.  _sjz.

    Actually, I've had wonderful times trying to think of a name for my
    "label".
    
    Considering that *I*'ve only made about 100 copies of BOTH Commusic
    III and Commusic IV, it hardly seems like we have the kind of volume
    here to start thinking about vinyl.
    
    I've given some thought to opening it up to a wider audience by
    advertising the Commusic tapes in other conferences like MUSIC,
    and GUITAR, or possibly even some general conferences, but I sorta
    like the "just a bunch of Commusic'ers exchanging tapes" informality
    of this and I'm probably not ready for handling volume, even though
    I personally would *LOVE* to expose more people to what DEC musicians
    are doing.
    
    Anyway, one of the unexpected pluses of doing this and moderating
    MUSIC has been getting to know (to some extent or another) a lot of you.
    I would even say that has turned out to be the BIGGEST plus.
    
    	db
    
    p.s. Note that even though *I*'ve only made 100 copies, I'm sure that
    	 there are more copies floating around than that because I have
    	 encouraged people to make copies from friends if that's possible
    	 and their not terribly concerned with the audio disadvantages
     	 of an extra generation.

	Hey, Dave, how's it going?

    I have received enough submissions to finish the tape.  In fact,
    some things will probably have to go on the next one.
    
    But I'm about to go on vacation and so it will probably be a few
    weeks before it's "released".
    
    I'd like to recommend to people submitting stuff to set their
    recording levels on the low side.  I would recommend to set it
    such that it occasionally reaches +2db, and only rarely goes
    above that (assuming your submission is dolby B).  This seems
    to produce the best dub.
    
    I've made a lot of experiments with these methods of transferring
    the submissions to the master: 
    
    	1) Direct dubbing (on my dubbing deck) - no decoding and
    	   re-encoding, recording level of original submission
    	   is preserved.
    
    	2) Dubbing from one deck to another without decoding and
    	   re-encoding,
    
    	3) Dubbing from one deck to another decoding and re-encoding.
    
    They are listed above in what is in my opinion, the order of preference
    so I have direct dubbed all the submissions onto the master.
    
    (3) produces a very breathy sounding type of noise.  It's very
    noticeable and annoying.  Commusic IV was done this way
    
    (2) works well but definitely adds some noise to the recording.
    
    (1) produces excellent copies with very little noise added.  However
    I think some gain is introduced in this process and it actually
    increases the level slightly.
    
    For future reference, here are my submission recommendations if you
    want the absolute best chance of getting a good copy to the master:
    
    	1) Use Maxell UDXL-IIS - this is the tape used for the master.
    	   At the very least, you should use a TYPE II (Chrome) tape.
    	   Using metal or TYPE I is definitely going to produce lower
    	   quality dupes because of mismatches in bias and recording
    	   levels.  (Commusic IV was mastered on a metal tape, direct
    	   duping to the TYPE II UDXL-II's that I used for copies produced
    	   inferior results.
    
    	2) Set the recording level as described above
    
    	db
    
    	

    I am surprised by your results regarding use of noise reduction
    while copying.  It is exactly counter to everything that has ever
    been recommended to me about copying.
    
    So be it.  The proof of the pudding is in the tasting.
    
    len.
    

    Gee, Len.  I find THAT comment surprising although I don't doubt
    your expertise as your Commusic III submission probably had
    the best audio quality of all the submissions I've received.
    
    I find it surprising because, intuitively, one would think
    that the method provided by the dubbing deck WOULD be the one
    the produces the best results.  Even the most expensive dubbing decks
    work this way.  My deck is a $400 deck, definitely towards the
    higher end.
    
    Any thoughts?
    
    I am expecting that most people will agree that the sound quality of
    Commusic V is better than that of Commusic IV.  It does not reflect
    a change in the quality of submissions.  Many of the IV submissions
    had excellent audio quality, but just didn't master well due to the
    process.
    
    I just wish we could use some other form of noise reduction besides
    Dolby B, but I did a fairly thorough examination of that possibility
    and concluded that Dolby B by far made the most sense given the
    equipment that other folks had.
    
    I've been using Dolby C (if I might play the tape in my car deck) 
    and DBX (otherwise) for my own personal taping, and am very happy 
    with both.
    
    Dolby C is sorta nice in that it isn't that much worse than B if
    you have to play it back in a machine that doesn't support it.  I'd
    go further to say that throwing Dolby C on when playing tapes w/o
    NR or with Dolby sometimes improves the sound if the hiss is very
    high.
    
    	db

    The rationale that I have seen published is that you avoid problems
    due to misaligned encode/decode cylces on the source and destination
    decks.  This doesn't hold water, though, as it just pushes the problem
    elsewhere, there being *4* decks involved, not just 2:
    
    	1) the original source deck (owned by the COMMUSIC submitter)
    
    	2) the copying source deck (owned by the COMMUSIC copier)
    
    	3) the copying destination deck (owned by the COMMUSIC copier)
    
    	4) the ultimate destination deck (owned by the COMMUSIC receiver)
    
    Even if there's no problems between decks 2 and 3, there're still
    potentially problems between decks 1 and 2, 3 and 4, and 1 and 4!
                                        
    So, I'm not sure what should *theoretically* be best.  If your ears
    tell you your way works best, go with it.
    
    len.
    
    

    Wow! we almost have enough decks for a cruise ship!
    Tom

    Now serving Dolby B on the mezzanine....
    
    

    re: .9
    
    That advice is predicated on the assumption that the playback deck 
    is the deck that was used to record the tape being dubbed, AND the 
    recording deck is the deck that WILL be used to play back the copy.
    
    However if this isn't the case (and it isn't), then as you've said,
    it just pushes the problem elsewhere.  It might well be that you
    make it worse in fact by adding an extra decode/encode cycle.
    It seems like that's a wonderful opportunity to drop in all kinds
    of unwanted things.
    
    We'll have to see what people think of V.   In my opinion, it's
    significantly better than IV, and only slightly (though noticeably)
    worse than III (specifically referring to the III submissions
    that were submitted on Dolby B cassette (some weren't)).
    
    Anyway, I believe that the limiting factor on IV is the submission
    media.  There's not much point to doing a Beta master for a tape
    that was submitted with Dolby B - applying the "weak link in the chain
    theory" that is.
    
    	db

    Actually, it's worse than 4 decks.
    
    What people should realize about the Commusic tapes is that the
    majority of them are 4th generation recordings!!!
    
    The typical process is:
    
    Live to 4-track
    4-track to master
    mixdown to submission tape
    submission to commusic master
    commusic master to copy
    
    Note that in most cases 3 of those generations are Dolby B.
    
    Again, the main idea is really just to hear people's music, not their
    engineering prowess.   That's my interest in this.   It's not my
    intention to become a record company.
    
    	db

Live music makes the deck-to-deck compatibility problems worse.

Dolby B (or C) encoding and decoding is dependant on signal level
as well as frequency.  For an EXACT match, you need perfect frequency
response, precise record-playback level matching, and a well-calibrated
Dolby circuit.  Don't despair...Dolby labs 'tuned' the transfer function
to work acceptably with most recorded music on most tape decks.  Some
manufacturers (Nak, for one) 'retune' to exploit properties of their heads.

If your tape deck is out of calibration, you probably won't notice (encode
and decode are still matched *WITHIN THE DECK*).  You will only spot the
problem when the tape is played on another, well-calibrated deck.

The matching problem grows more extreme if you've recorded a live or
nearly-live program.  The dynamic speed (not necessarily *range*) of
most live or home-studio music is HUGE compared to store-bought stuff.
Again, recording and playback on the same 'bad' deck will almost surely
sound fine, but any mismatch will now be GROSSLY apparent when played
on a 'good' deck.

Home hobbyists can try a pathological case yourselves -- just for grins,
try a mixdown onto dolby C, then play back on B.  The dynamics will be
munged, and the high-end sizzle could crack your dental work.  Now try
it with something store-bought.  The high end will still be a bit exaggerated,
but overall WAAAAY more listenable than the live case.  Fewer fast
dynamics leads to fewer dolby tracking problems.

Since there's NO WAY to ensure that everyone out there has a calibrated
tape deck, I betcha we'd get better sound quality on the Commusic series
if all submissions and distributions were done with NO DOLBY whatsoever.
Failing that, force the fewest possible decode-encode cycles:

encoded submission > master (no decode) > copies (no decode) > home (decode)

This method will add the least amount of error, and also allow us to finger
the folks with bum decks in time for the next tape. :-)  Be careful with
levels on the master and copies, though -- the high-end boost of the
encoded submissions can saturate the tape.

Happy Monday,
Dave

    My V submission was a master off the amiga.  I think.
    Tom

    Well, I've been toying with the idea of SENDING the master to
    submittors, or having the submittors come to my place to make the copy
    onto the master.   In fact, several Commusic submissions were
    mastered ONTO the Commusic III master (a Beta tape). It slows down 
    the whole process of course, but maybe it will produce better results.
    
    I was thinking that the rule would be that if you want your tape
    done this way, you MUST have your submission ready to go and must
    have the tape back in the mail to me within 48 hours.
    
    One submission on Commusic V will be done this way.  I can't promise
    that I will do it again, we'll see.  Again, I have a strong inclination
    for simplicity.
    
    	db

    Puhleeze DON'T send the 'master' thru the U>S> Mail.. The master
    to Commusic I was lost this way !
    
    karl

    The ultimate in mastering would be to send a MIDI sequence (and
    voices) digitally to the masterer, who would load the sequence and
    play it directly onto the audio master tape.
    
    I guess we can do this right now if we limit submissions to use
    only an ESQ-1 and an HR-16. :-(
    
    What-all can you scare up to build a MIDI Standard Studio with,
    db?  (Especially what sequencer, I wouldn't trust my ESQ cassette
    interface as far as I can throw a blank cassette).
    
    Uhmm, anybody got a copy of the MIDI Vocalist spec?  :-)
    
    	-Bill
                                                            

    OK, there's a little bit of space left, but I'm gonna close Commusic
    V submissions and declare Commusic V "released".
    
    The Commusic V contributors are:
    
    	o Paul Kent
    	o Dave Bottom
	o Bob Yerazunis
    	o John Williams
    	o Steve Sherman (Side B begins here)
    	o Karl Moeller
     	o Pete LaQuerre
    	o Dan Eaton
    	o Dave Dreher
    	o Tom Janzen
    
    Submittors: 
    
    	o Please send me liner notes
    
     	o Please send me instructions for returning your tape and
    	  getting your own copy
    
    	  Do I:
    
    		1) Record over your submission tape (was it a C-90)
    		   or do I use a fresh tape ($2.50 cost)
    
    		2) mail it to you (cost: 85 cents/tape), bring it to
    		   an upcoming LERDS-BIM, or will you pick it up
    		   in my office
    
    		3) Have you given me any money in advance (my records
    		   indicate that only Janzen, Eaton and Sherman have
    		   done this. 
    
    		   Important: I will *NOT* front money for anyone!!!
    		   I will not send your tape out until, I get money
    		   from you.  At least one group of folks have objected
    		   to this policy so I'll explain:
    
    			1) I have already been "stiffed" for the price
    			   of a tape.  It's no financial setback but
    			   it pissed me off and I'm not gonna let it
    			   happen again.
    
    			2) I don't want to have to keep track of who owes
    			   what, etc.  
    
    Non submittors:
    
    I will take orders for copies now.
    
    You can do it by mail, pick up a copy in my office at ZK3, or get
    a copyfrom me when I visit LERDS-BIM (probably NEXT week, but not
    this week).
    
    More details soon
    
    	db
    
    		

    Dave's doing a great job, but in the liner notes, Sacre on my
    cuts is labelled PDP11 version, and it's not, it's on the Amiga.
    Tom

    OK, Commusic V copies are available in plenty:
    
    	1) At my office in ZK
    
    	2) Via mail order
    
    I will also be bringing copies to next weeks LERDS-BIM.
    
    I have to make a request for those of you picking up copies at
    my office.  My project is in the very last throes of trying to
    finish off a base level that is already too long.  My inclination
    is to stop working and chat with folks, but I really have to get
    things done so... I guess what I'm saying is that let's conduct
    our "business" and then I have to get back to work.
    
    Thanks,
    
    	db

    Attention LERDS-BIM'ers.
    
    I am planning to "do" LERDS-BIM tonite.   I will bring about a dozen
    copies of Commusic V for distribution.
    
    I greatly prefer to distribute tapes this way rather than mail, and
    it's cheaper for you also.  So if you can make LERDS-BIM tonite, even
    if only long enough to pick up the tapes, you oughta try and make it.
    Or you can arrange to have a friend pick up a copy (or better yet,
    make a copy from a friends copy).
    
    Whatever...
    
    Yo Ron, if you get there before me, order up a few DBLMARGs.
    
    	db

    WHERE???
    

    Tom Foolery's, Westboro....
    
    From the north... take route 495 to route 9 west. Go approximately
    1.5 miles on route 9 and TF's will be on the right...
    
    Somehow, people just *know* which group is LERDS-BIM when they
    get inside...
    
    Edd

    TF's is at the intersection of routes 9 and 30 in Westborough.
    As you get off route 9 westbound to get on route 30 westbound,
    the entrance to TF's is right in the hook of the curve.
    
    The traditional way to be recognized is to talk about wearing a
    chicken on your head, but not actually wear one.  Got that?
    Eventually you will be overheard by some regular LERDS-BIMmer, 
    and an arcane exchange of passwords will take place:
    
    	LERDS-BIM?
    	COMMUSIC V!
    	DX-7?
    	D-50!
    	Dolby B?
    	dbx!
    
    	All right, you're ok...
    
    len.
      

    Dave,
    
    How much are you charging for the tapes? Last time it was $4.00,
    but I know the XLII-S's are a tad more expensive than the XLII's.
    
    Rodney M.

    Still (as always) $4 via US Mail, $2.50 if you pick it up from me.
    
    I'm still using XL-II's, not XL-IIS's.  I used an XL-IIS for the
    master, but not for the copies.
    
    Actually, my mailing costs went up, but I found a cheaper source for
    tapes.  So the $2.50 sometimes includes a slight profit.  I'm pocketing 
    this "profit" as small compensation for the duping deck I bought 
    largely for the purposes of making Commusic tapes, not to mention
    the time, electricity and the $25 I paid for the Commusic III and
    Commusic IV master tapes (Sony Pro-X Beta and Sony Metal C-90).
    
    I also have to announce that I will no longer "loan" tapes out to
    anyone whom I don't know personally.  Surprisingly enough, I've had
    a fair amount of problems getting people to return them within a
    reasonable period of time (some folks not getting around to it,
    others leaving the company, etc.).
    
    So the profit in the $2.50 also goes to cover some losses I've
    incurred.
    
    	db

Following the formfeed is a postscript file.  Extract it, print it out on the
LPS40 with a command such as:

$ PRINT/PARAM=DATA_TYPE=POSTSCRIPT/QUEUE=lps_queue filename.PS

and you should get a label to use with your COMMUSIC V tape.

Please let me know what you think, if you have any problems, or if you want the
source so you can do this for the rest of your tapes. :-)

Jill

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Re: Commusic V cover...

Looks great!  ...what did you mean by 'the source'?  what form does this
     take?  some  software  or something?  I'd be interested in having a
     copy to make covers for other tapes.

/Mitch

re .33 (Mitch)

The file that you submitted to the LPS40 was a program, since
PostScript is a language.  It told the Microvax inside the LPS40 what to do.
There is another program (mostly Fortran) that takes a simple input file
and creates the PostScript code.  When I said "the source", I meant the
.EXE file (as well as documentation on how to use it) so you could use it for
other tapes.

Glad you like it!

Please send me mail if you want the .EXE and other necessary files.

Jill

    For what it's worth, there is an internal doctype for DOCUMENT called
    CASSETTE that works quite well at producing labels.  Since I don't have
    access to an LPS40 (just got access to an LN03 last week), I can't
    compare the two.  However, someone should probably check both of them
    out.  Sure makes nice cassette liners.

-b

    Hey, isn't there a potential conflict of interest possibility here?
    Like, won't the Digital Police come after you if you make millions
    using a DOCUMENT-generated cassette label?  Or, if you have scruples,
    won't this make you feel a little guilty?  
    
    Actually, a couple of months ago I brought up this very issue with
    my cost center manager.  Technically, it's a no-no to use Digital
    resources to generate your own album covers to sell your albums.
    Arrangements can be made, but this involves a committee decision
    and the committee tends to be real gunshy.
    
    Steve

    
    re: .-1
    
      Okay, so officially, we don't condone it. 

Disclaimer:

I can't speak for anyone else or what they choose to do, but my the output from
my label program is intended for home use only.

Jill