Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    
      I think there is a limit on how many keyboards you can effectively
    use at a given time. My setup has vacillated between 4 and 7 keyboard
    instruments at any given time - currently moving downward again.
    Why? Because (a) they take up LOADS of space which rackmount devices
    don't, (b) the most I can play is two at a time not counting a
    pedalboard (which I also have attached to my MS-20) and (c) with
    the MIDI and program change instructions you don't need to switch
    keyboards to make a fast timbre change. In a studio, especially
    a small one, the less space taken up by keyboards is more space
    you can take up with some other toy. 
    
    Like I said, if you're playing them all at the same time via MIDI
    why have a keyboard physically attached to the package?
    
    /pjh

    I don't think I've ever played an electronic keyboard that really
    "felt" like a piano keyboard.  The ones with weighted keys are as
    close as I've tried but even those don't have the detent action
    that a real piano.
    
    I ended up with a Roland RD-300, which is an 88 weighted key board
    with a builtin preset MKS-20 Digital Piano Synth.  As a MIDI controller
    its fine for the studio but has serious shortcomings for live
    performance (it doesn't have the MIDI configuration programming
    that the KX has).
    
    I don't want to get too detailed because I've said it elsewhere
    and don't want to bore people, but the reason I got the RD was
    because even if the action didn't feel quite like a piano, when
    I play it, I feel that it responds more like a piano than anything
    else I've tried.
    
    I'm not so strongly recommending the RD as I am the MKS-20.  I've
    tried the various Yamaha, Ensoniq, etc piano synths but the MKS-20
    still is the winner in the realism catagory to my ears.  The Ensoniq
    sounded like an upright to me.
    
    I think that you would find that any one note on a general purpose
    synth or sampler may "sound" like a piano, but when you start to
    play a piece, I find that they don't "respond" like a piano.  You
    should check out the dedicated piano synths.
    
    	db
    

	I think you've got a very good basic setup listed there.  The PF85
gives you the piano feel (or you could look at the competing Roland pianos - 
RD250 or RD300).  The D-50 would give you synth-type control as well as a wealth
of alternate sounds.

	Personally, I like having both.  It took me years to understand fully 
that a synth was not a piano.  Now I have an RD200 piano to satisfy the pianist
in me and I leave the other instruments to my synth keyboards.


	Dan

   
    A friend of mine was looking for a "piano" keyboard recently, and
    the best feel he found (and what he eventually bought) was a Wersi
    controller. 88 keys, relatively light and portable, a very good
    piano type action. The problem is that it has almost *no* controller
    features, but you could buy something like the Yamaha controller
    box as an add-on. 
    
    Maybe not what you're looking for, but if you're a *piano* player
    it might be worth checking out.

    Rob

    
    	I was just wondering since you guys know about keyboards alot
    more than I do. I just bought a new roland piano for my wife andI
    for Christmas. It's an Hp 4500 and I always wanted something that
    was close to a real piano action. How different will this be taking
    lesson's from a teacher with a real piano. Do these different weights
    of keys make like alot of difference. Or will it be something that
    won't make alot of difference?  
    
    	Also I don't know alot about sequencers and such but I bought
    the pr100 with it.. I probably should have consulted you guys first
    but it seems to be pretty cool.
    
     And third, they want me to come down and check out this new mt32?
    I guess it's a synth of some type that has strings,drums,horns,etc..
    Is this a decent add on cause I am real new to this stuff.
    
     I really like the piano and I'm sure someone makes a better one
    but we also wanted it to be a piece of furniture in the living room
    so  the hp4500 met all of OUR requirements... Have I made the right
    move sticking with roland add on's as apposed to some other brand...
    
                                    
    p.s. the piano is 88 keys...
    
    
    
    		thanks in advance...

RE < Note 1056.5 by DELNI::GOSS >

	The HP-4500 is an excellent choice for a realistic, weighted key paino
that will also serve as a piece of furniture as well.  It has the sounds of
one of the best electronic pianos on the market, Roland's Structured Adaptive
Synthesis.  It will also serve you well as something to take lessons with.  You 
should find no discrenable difference between the action of the Hp and that of
an acoustic piano.  If a teacher objects, he/she is just being stubborn.

	Don't know much about the PR-100, as it is quite new.  Would like to 
find out, though...

	Regarding the MT-32 - you'll find other notes in this conference that
speak about it in depth.  It came out, it seems, as Roland's answer to 
Yamaha's FB01 (and later TX81Z).  You should check these out, too, before you
buy, as they are less expensive, and share some better MIDI features (though 
the MT also has some things that the Yam's don't - like built-in digital 
reverb...).

	Dan

    Bill
    	
    	As "feel" is important to you, you have probably already realized
    that you must go to a MIDI controller to really get that (versus
    a synth).  The fact is that there are plenty of good MIDI controllers
    out there with all the features you want.  These include the Roland
    units mentioned, the Korgs SG-1 and SG-1D, and Kawai's new M8000.
    The only synth I have run across with a realistic touch was the
    K5 (which I now own), but it is only 60 keys and still doesn't feel
    as realistic as those mentioned above.   It DOES provide a very good
    16 voice, multi-timbral synth (with dynamic voice alloc) however, 
    and the flexibility to be driven by a MIDI controller, in the future.
    What I hope to have down the road is a rack mounted sampler and MIDI 
    controller, in addition to the K5 as a synth.  This keeps the number 
    of keyboards down to two and still gives me lots of voices to work 
    with.  It sounds like you are interested in a similar kind of setup.
    
    	I'd also agree with Dave B. that even the "good" piano patches
    on a synth will probably only sound good over a narrow range of
    the keyboard.  The chances of that piano or harpsichord patch sounding
    realistic from 3 octaves below middle C, to three octaves above
    are slim, unless you get something like the Roland MKS-20.  Even
    then, it pays to spend some time playing chords and pieces (not
    just notes) at different locations on the keyboard so that you make
    an informed choice. 
    
    	I would be wary of the ibm Music Feature Card; it sounds like
    a good idea, but it is NOT compatible with a lot of the MIDI software
    out there for the PC.  I also have an XT and looked at this card
    and the program, Personal Composer.  The latter looked like the
    answer to all my dreams but some investigation revealed that its
    weak point is a poor sequencer section.  If you don't think you'll
    need that, then go for it, but I felt that a decent (16-32 tracks)
    sequencer with easy-to-use features was a must.  I don't want to
    be constrained in the future by the lack of function, today.  Of
    course, you could always start with Personal Composer, now, and
    add a full-function sequencer like 48 Track PC or SequencerPlus
    in the future.  I decided to buy SequencerPlus MKII and Dr. T's
    COPYIST transcribing program.  The two of them cost $300 or so,
    and I am using them with an industry standard OPS4001 MIDI inter-
    face card, so that if I want to change software in the future, I
    can.  Good Luck and let us know what you decide.
    
    Santa Clusters,
    Bill                                         
    
    	

    I got the scoop on the differences between the old RD-300 and the
    new RD-300S.
    
    The only difference (according to an EU Wurlitzer salesman) seems
    to be the feel of the keyboard.  The S has a somewhat stiffer action
    than the older model.
    
    I tried the newer model.  I'm sorta glad I got the old one when
    I did.  The action on the S will probably feel more like a real
    piano to a lot of you, but I cut my teeth on pianos with very
    light action and I just prefer it that way.  I find that I can
    can play for hours and hours without getting fatigued on the old
    RD, whereas I think my fingers would tighten up fairly quickly
    on the new one.
    
    	db