Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    No one have information on commercial sequences? I'm curious to hear
    about this as well. I talked to a guy recently who had bought about 4
    hours worth of popular/GB-type stuff that was supposedly put together
    by "professional" musicians. He claims it sounds great (he has about
    $20,000 worth of MIDI gear to play it on), but I haven't heard it yet
    myself. I don't know what his source is, but if I find out and get a
    chance to hear it I'll let you know. I would think that this sort of
    thing would be a good starting point at least for a MIDI-based band.
    
    - Ram

    I'm currently doing sequences for a MIDI band and the amount of
    work is, well, surprising at least... Porting from one MIDI system
    to another is much more than simply swapping discs.
    
    F'rinstance, drums. Luckily for me, the MIDI band is using an HR-16,
    enabling me to custom design kits. But there's still the note
    assignment quandary...
    
    Some things I take for granted cause concern. The end user may not have
    that great TX81Z string patch with the custom slow attack that I used
    on a particular song. They might not even have any of the same SGUs.
    Their PB range may be set to +/- 12 while mine are set up +/- 2.
    
    It's alot of work and planning. My compliments to anyone who's pulling
    this type of thing off successfully on a commercial basis...
    
    Edd

    I agree -- this is interesting from the sequence-production point 
    of view, but if you turned up to see a live band and 90% was on
    pro-produced sequences, wouldn't it make you want to pull the plug?
    
    Richard.

    Ah, yes, the age-old debate about art being defined according to
    how it's marketed ...
    
    Steve

    > ...wouldn't it make you want to pull the plug?
    
    No, absolutely not, for a couple reasons...
    
    MIDI is my hobby and watching someone else use it is something I find
    enjoyable. Especially if they do it well. There's so much more to it
    than meets the eye (ear?)...
    
    ...and I really believe there's as much an edge, from the performer's
    point-of-view, to performing with a sequence and a stack of SGUs as
    there is in playing with humans. In some respects there's even more.
    The machine is unforgiving and that forces you to be on top of
    everything just a bit more.
    
    One thing I haven't reconciled myself to is performing with everything
    else on tape. Every room is different and requires a different mix.
    Maybe a multitrack tape would cure that???
    
    Edd

    This reminds me of a band that I saw at the Wocester Mariott a couple
    of years ago. They sounded great, but at least half the band members
    weren't even pretending to play their instruments, as I remember.
    
    To the average person who hasn't even heard the word MIDI, this
    may not even have been noticed, since who would be looking for this
    except another musician?
    
    It did look strange, however, and I, for one, appreciate hearing
    a LIVE band, but business is business, and hey, if I ever got back
    into gigging, I might do the same thing, although not to that extent.
                                                             
    I don't want to come down hard on this, as I think I can appreciate
    both sides of this argument, and can agree with some points of each.
    I think moderation is key, though.
    
    Bill

    If a group was using MIDI to sync several SGU's and a drum box from
    prerecorded sequences, they'd better be doing some really interesting
    things over the background..
    
    this is why I haven't played live with MIDI - what part should I play?
    So many of my pieces begin from an improvised piano track that it would
    be hard to play the original track live with sequenced backgrounds,
    because unless there were a definite click or other tempo indicator it
    would just drift away.. also I'm in the habit of recording into
    Performer without the click, anyway.  Just goes to show that sequencing
    for live is MUCH different than sequencing for recording...
    
    karl

    I agree with the point about moderation. I'm seriously considering
    starting a MIDI-band myself right now, mainly because it is so
    difficult to find a full group of musicians with the same set of
    talents, goals and constraints that I have. I feel like I could be
    satisfied musically working with sequenced drums and bass (I play
    guitar and sing), with a live keyboard player and lead vocalist. It's a
    heck of a lot easier to keep three people together than five, and from
    a financial standpoint it is much more lucrative.
    
    I personally wouldn't want to go with a complete MIDI background, and I
    don't want to use "canned" sequences, except possibly as a starting
    point to save time in developing new material. I can play drums, bass
    and keys as well as guitar, and have been trained in music theory and
    composition, so I envision creating my own MIDI arrangements and
    tweaking them constantly to improve the overall sound of the group. In
    addition to my own playing I look forward to this as one way of getting
    some satisfaction out of "artistic expression".
    
    As far as whether audiences will go for this or not, I'm pretty much
    convinced that they will. There are several other noters already doing
    similar things, and I understand that it is more widespread on the West
    coast. I guess my answer would be that I personally wouldn't want to go
    and watch such a band, but then I personally wouldn't want to go and
    watch just about any GB band. Having been a performer for a long time, I
    think its only fair to admit that the *average* Joe can't tell the
    difference between live, spontaneous music and Muzak.
    
    - Ram

It is pretty boring to see someone sing to sequenced music.  I went to a local
high school's voice class top forty concert.  It felt funny and looked funny
to have the music but only a singer (and perhaps a guitar player on some pieces)
and the rest coming from a stack and MC500.  A few of the tunes had a drummer,
guitar and bass, etc. in addition to the midi and singer.  They felt right, even
though a lot of the music was still coming from the sequencer.  I guess when
I go *see* someone make music, I want to see it.  If I want to hear music, I'll
listen to a CD, tape, or radio.

Chad

This argument seems to come up a lot. Obviously, canned sequences and
sequences in general must work out for a lot of people, otherwise it
wouldn't happen. I suppose that we can take the same attitude about anything
that is done for you, such as running a spread sheet on a PC, or using
an editor, or for that matter driving a car. Each of these is a utility
item & very few people would think less of you if you didn't write all
your own software or design & assemble you own cars. Actually, I'm getting
tired of defending my position, as it seems to benifit me & obviously
doesn't benifit everyone. I personally don't have any desire to play in
a large band again & I really like working 'live' with a sequencer.  As
for transposing sequences from one SGU to another, this can be a problem,
and, with the exception of drum note assignments, is not usually that
nasty.

In my case, my sequences use the default Roland Drum note assignments as
found on either the MT-32 or the D-110 (these would also work for the
D-20). As long as you are playing on a piece of equipment that understands
the note assigments, or can be set up to respond to the proper note assignments,
these sequences are adaptable. I happen to use an MMT-8 sequencer and as
such, sequencer dumps will only work to another MMT-8. You could do real
time copies of the sequences to another sequencer (I do this to my ESQ-1's
sequencer), but you still need access to an MMT-8 to start the process.
You'd also have to re-assign the program changes & find a compatable sound
(Timbre) & adjust the CC7 values accordingly. Beyond that it would be
simple. I'll share my sequences with anyone who wants them (I have about
100 songs), however, I won't provide any additional services (like moving
them to an MC-500 or other sequencer), as I don't have the time.  If you
happen to be using an MMT-8 & a compatable ROLAND SGU (and that includes
many devices in the current line up - R8/R5/TR707/TR505/MT-32/D-110/U-110/D10
/D5/D20 etc, these sequences would work.

Certainly I've taken liberties with the songs that I've sequenced & that's
my option, but I'm more than happy with the result. If you can find an MMT-8
to transfer the sequneces from & you can deal with midi patch selection and
CC7 (volume) modifications, contact me & maybe we can trade patches. Send
me Email if you are interested.

I've heard some professionally sequenced material that sounds great, but I
havn't bought any sequences, so I can't reccomend a source.

							Jens

	This has gotten off the beaten path, but I'll add my nickel's worth...

	I've been doing this for a while - sequenced drums, bass, whatever while
I play guitar or piano and sing.  I think I've heard it described as "Music-
minus-one"?  It has been just fine to the audiences I've played for 
(coffeehouses).  Now I'm planning on going into the local restaurants as a solo 
act or work with one other, providing background music.  I'll be able to report
back in a few months how people received it.

	From the performer's side of things, when I would be a 'feature' 
entertainer at coffeehouses (with everybody giving you their full attention) I 
would always program my sequences so that I was playing the part that was most 
'out front'.  That is, if I was singing to piano accompaniment, and there was
a solo bridge coming up, I'd program the piano part to be picked up by the 
sequencer while I took over the lead work.  Then I'd go back to playing the
piano part afterwards.  It doesn't work, of course, with guitar parts 8^).

	As I contemplate doing 'background music', I'm not so concerned about
having the solo parts to myself and may sequence them.  I'll see.

	There are some givens, such as the need to always have some kind of
time-keeper to help me stay in synch.  I've tried to avoid having a 'tick-tick-
tick' going, but rather, perhaps, gave a hit on a drum at the end of a pause to 
signal me to start back in again.

	Regarding the topic, I'd love to be able to reduce my workload of 
sequencing 100 plus songs by buying some third-party stuff.  But the prices
are high (which is understandable considering the amount of work it takes to do 
a song and do it well) and at this point in my life, my time is a little more
avialable than is the money.  And besides, someone elses sequences would be just
that - someone else's.  I like adding my 'signature' to whatever music I'm 
doing.

	Dan

I must admit my comments are more pop/rock "concert" oriented and not so 
much background music oriented.

good luck

Chad

    The name for this topic is a misnomer, but it's evidently a good one
    (topic).
    
    Recently, I did two sequences for an singer who had a 4-song spot at a
    theatre variety show. These two sequences had to be as near to her
    records as poss. She had an on-stage band of guitar, bass, drums and
    keyboards (moi). In fact, I managed to get some of the original
    sequence from the recording, and integrate this with the 'stage'
    version. This involved C-Lab and an MMT-8. Interesting experience.
    
    	Anyway, this artiste's requirements highlight a trend for the
    future, I believe. That is; custom arranging/sequencing. I reckon that
    the arranger/copier's role is changing rapidly. I'm not thinking about
    full sets as such, just single songs, 'custom' arranged for a
    particular artiste.
    
    	You can buy 'pop scores' from a firm in the UK, which are excellent
    for detail and reflect just about everything that is happening on the
    particular recorded pop song. Wouldn't it be nice to order a 'skeleton'
    sequence instead ? That is; precise bass lines, drum fills, strings,
    etc. It would be a 'skeleton' in that the 'user' would have to do the
    channel/voice linkup, etc. Also, if the user has a drummer, then just
    mute the drum track (after the drummer gets a good listen !), etc.
    This type of sequence would have 'test tones' on each MIDI channel for 
    SGU level setting.
    
    Jim
    
    PS	Maybe in another note, I'll tell of the night (there were 14 in
    	all) when the sequencer	didn't start, and the drummer led us in 
    	instead !!   AAARRRGGHH !
    	You should have seen her face when she turned round at 'solo-time'
    	to face the band, and the sequencer was supposed to be pumping out 
    	this stereo-panned horn mega-solo, and got a watery background piano 
    	instead !

    
    I think I'd be disappointed if much of the 'live' music was sequenced
    anyway -- in this resepct I think it's very similar to taped backing.
    
    But my original point meant to stress the horror of BUYING IN
    professional sequences that you then go out and 'perform'. 
    
    One step away from being a D.J.
    
    Richard.

	So who says you can't customize the sequences you buy?  Then you
	can think of the producers as simple data entry people.