T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
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1620.1 | Some other ST information. | PANGLS::BAILEY | | Mon Aug 15 1988 21:56 | 37 |
| I don't know much about Creator, except the reviews that I have
read in EM and MT, which were both quite favorable. I can, however
provide you with some other reasons for buying an ST.
STs are excellent for archiving patches. You can use my program
(Dir/Title="bulkdump") for free. It isn't as useful as a dedicated
librarian for a synth, but for any synth for which you have more
than a single bank of patches, it makes a world of difference.
For example, ST users with Yamaha 6-op synths ([DT]X7{IIF{D}}, TX802)
in this file enjoy the use of 3000 or so different patches. This
type of flexibility opens many doors.
I imagine that the D-50 will also develop a comparably sized library
over time. As it stands, if you have an Atari ST, you will not
have to buy a RAM or ROM cart for each new bank of patches that you get.
There are number of good sequencer, sample and voice editing packages
for the ST, but I don't have one, so I won't comment.
If you are going to use the system for non-music applications, the ST
has the best terminal program I have seen for any micro, if you are a
DEC employee. See MAY14::ATARIST (dir/title="whack") for further
details.
In the con department, you really should buy and ST for what it
can do NOW. You should not expect any hot new software for the
ST to appear, since most developers have been scared away from the
machine by Atari's attitude. Music software is an exception, but
I would still not gamble that somebody is going to port X, Y or
Z to the machine.
Personally, I feel that the patch archival uses alone are worth the
price.
Steph
|
1620.2 | More on C-LAB | WARMER::KENT | | Tue Aug 16 1988 07:49 | 18 |
|
As an Atari and Bulkdump user I can add a little value here (note
the terminology). I saw a demo of C-LAB Notator yesterday (this
is the next setp on from "C-LAB Creator" these are bot produced
by a German Company who are the main competition to Steinberg. As
a Hardware sequencer user I do not always understand the use of
screens and keyboards for writing or playing music but I have to
say that it looked impressive. The big step forward is that once
you have built your piece using stave or realtime entry you can
just press the button and out comes the score.
As to D50 editing and dumping. I am already, succesfully using Bulkdump
with the D50 so I have some patches which are tradable and could
save you money in the Aftermarket area.
Paul.
|
1620.3 | Information? | TOOK::DDS_SEC | Snugglebunnies! Snu-- | Tue Aug 16 1988 12:37 | 6 |
| RE: -.1
Do you know the name of the company? the address? anything more that
I could use as a touchpoint? I'd appreciate it!
--mike "No money" bell
|
1620.4 | Wait a minute ... | DYO780::SCHAFER | Brad ... DTN 433-2408 | Tue Aug 16 1988 15:57 | 9 |
| Uhm - you're now thinking about an ATARI? AND a sequencing package?
You'd better reconsider the D-10/110. Multi-timbrality and dynamic
voice allocation are awful hard to do without.
As long as you're checking out sequencers, you may as well do a
DIR/TITLE="MASTER" and read the entries for MasterTracks Pro.
-b
|
1620.5 | Notator/Creator | WARMTH::KENT | | Wed Aug 17 1988 12:22 | 9 |
|
Re-2
The company is called C-Lab and tend to distribute through dealers
you will get the U.S.A. distributer's name out of KEYBOARD or
similar.
Paul.
|
1620.6 | C-LAB Creator | NORGE::CHAD | | Tue Sep 13 1988 16:41 | 105 |
1620.7 | more on CREATOR and NOTATOR | NORGE::CHAD | | Tue Sep 13 1988 17:07 | 57 |
|
Some additional notes from the blurb from C-lab itself (not direct quotes):
Notator is a system that includes the *complete* Creator plus a comprehensive
notation edit/printout system, all apparently in one program. "There is no
didvision between MIDI data and their display in notation form."
1/768th note resolution.
"* Data reduction: a musically oriented system automatically saves a
considerable amount of memory space amongst control data and helps to keep
timing at its optimum"
"The program also supports the MIDI Universal Dump Standard."
This appears to support powerfully both pattern based and linear recording
sequencing/recording.
Some Notator only features:
"C-Lab CREATOR Sequencer + Notation Editor + Score printout ...all in ONE
program!"
"* Every function directly accessible: no need to change program or dongle,
neither is any data-exchange necessary via disk."
"* Every CREATOR Sequencer function accessible as usual at all times."
"* The famous CREATOR multitasking includes all the new notation functions."
"* Display is in notation-only, event-only or notation-and-event formats:
that way, even the most minute changes can be made at NIDI event level
in the famous Event Editor without changing windows."
"* Every alteration can be made with the NOTATOR in play mode, and the results
are immediately hearable."
"* Display of single tracks or whole 32-stave scores."
"* Any clef allowed, including bass, terble, and the various C-clefs."
Many freely insertable things like text, notation marks, etc.
"* Printout using 8 and 24 pin dot matrix printers -- any printer can be
accomodated."
"* High resolution 24-pin font."
"* Laser compatibility coming soon."
***********************************************************************
There was also a blurb about X-ALYZER, DX LIBRARY & EDITOR DX-TO-SAMPLE
TRANSFORMER. I might type some of that stuff later.
CHad
|
1620.8 | I used Notator last night | NORGE::CHAD | | Sat Dec 10 1988 16:44 | 34 |
|
Last night a salesman and I demoed Notator a bit. It was a first for us
both. We didn't get much done because we didn't have the time at the
moment to really dig down deep and read the manual as we went and it
is quite complex to use all the features of it. As a MasterTracksPro
user I am accumstomed to a certain interface. Because of that, adapting
to a different interface is a bit harder than for someone who hasn't used
anything before (I'm trying here to explain the learning by doing method).
We were able to step enter (using mouse and musical notation) a track
and print it out. On my NEC P2200 24 pin printer it looked real good.
We were also able to record in real-time something I played and then
print that out. I couldn't figure out how to break my thing I played
into 2 staves etc so there were about 12 ledger lines drawn below the staff
for the bass notes. I assume however that I could have told it to do
use a trble and a bass staff. We printed part of a demo song and it
printed multiple staves. The whole menu bar was full of menu categories and
each drop down menu had 10 ^ 6 choices. MAny of the choices did not
seem to correspond to things in master tracks pro. There seemed to be so
many more options available in Notator.
I feel this program is worthy looking into for those looking for an Atari
sequencer package. It looked very powerful. Definitely one to read the
manual on though.
BTW, the copy protection is through the use of a hardware dongle on the
cartridge port. It comes with two disks, a user disk and a backup disk.
Chad
(I plan on buying it when I save ssome money and get out of debt from
financing my car [beyond meeting the payments, the down payment put me
in the red :-( ] )
|
1620.9 | The way of the future | MUNCSS::BURKE | | Thu Jan 12 1989 11:06 | 23 |
1620.10 | I LIKE NOTATOR | NORGE::CHAD | | Thu Jan 12 1989 12:29 | 12 |
|
Yes,
I agree with you there Jim. I don't have great experience as a composer or
arranger but I do know that my use of MTP is similar to how creator/NOtator
is set up -- I do 4 8 or 12 bars bass, then the same amount of another
instrument, and then tie everything together in a different set of tracks.
Notator is definitely on my list for the future when my immediate debts
are taken care of.
Chad
|
1620.11 | Problems with s/w MIDI thru... | MIDI::DAN | All things are possible | Thu Jun 08 1989 19:23 | 41 |
|
Well, I finally got my MegaST2 back from Atari in Sunnyvale (actually
they ended up sending me a new one) after Lasalle Music sent me one with a bad
cartridge port (this can be quite a problem when both Notator and Steinberg's
DX/TX Synthworks use hardware keys). 8*( I've only had a little time to fool
around with Notator/Creator but I can already see that it is *quite* the
sequencer/score editor - 'extensive' is too mild a word to describe it.
There's one problem I'm having, though, that's really starting to bug
me: the documentation claims that Notator's software MIDI THRU will dump data
from the MIDI IN to the MIDI OUT without going through the sequencer first
(I assume that this is for all MIDI channels that are *not* being used by
Notator). I have the following set up -
KX88 -> Atari ST (Notator) -> TX802 -> Midverb II
(out -> in) (out -> in) (thru -> in)
With my KX88 set to dual mode, I haven't figured out how to send program changes
for my TX802 on one channel (the present track in Notator) using Bank A *AND*
send program changes on another MIDI channel to the Midiverb II using Bank B.
With the Atari not in the above picture (i.e. KX88 -> TX802 etc.) this works
fine. However, when I try the same thing with Notator in the middle, any change
I make on *either* Bank sends changes to my TX802 only.
I spoke to Chad about this one and he said something about "Notator is
re-mapping the changes to all channels, MTP does the same thing". Well, Chad's
left to go to Utah until next week and he's left me as guest moderator for
two notes conferences and without a clear answer to my problem (and also
without a solution!). He's lucky we've been friends for half our lives. :) :)
Did I understand his explanation correctly? Is there anything I can do other
than go out and buy an MX-8 or something to filter the channels properly?
Note: Notator has a setting for OMNI ON/OFF, both which I have tried with no
success (in case anyone is wondering).
Any help will be greatly appreciated...
Dan
|
1620.12 | LOG DRUMmmmmm | WOTVAX::KENT | | Fri Jun 09 1989 08:26 | 19 |
|
re -1
Sounds like not to dissimilar set up to my own.. Well the
KX88-Atari-Tx802 bit anyway. I am using Cubase/pro-24 as a sequencer.
There are I think 2 ways to solve the problem which I do believe
is a remapping problem In other words the sequencer is recording
on one midi-channel for the track you are recording and sending
it out on the midi-channel you have assigned for the instrument
you want on that track. Presumably your TX802. IF you want to record
reverb changes on that track at the sames time you will have to
turn off the midi-channel number for that track in the sequencer I
think C-lab goes from 0-16 where 0 is no remapping. This would achieve
what you want to do. You must make sure the KX88 channel assigments
are correct however. The other alternative, which is what I do,
is to record the effects program changes on a seperate track.
Different strokes !
Paul.
|
1620.13 | thanks, and more questions...
| MIDI::DAN | All things are possible | Fri Jun 09 1989 12:39 | 16 |
|
Thanks Paul,
You're right - after spending 5+ hours playing with my
setup last night, I discovered in the manual that one can use
Channel 0 (ORIGINAL) which will keep things separate or I can
program effects sends on a separate track. I didn't spend too
much time trying to actually do this, though.
What if I want to hear MIDI channel 1 playing and at the
same time control the MIDIverb in realtime (just to hear what
sounds good)? Should I set up a separate RECORD track and erase
it every time? Is there an easier way (providing I *do* want to
leave track 1 = MIDI channel 1)?
Dan (who_is_fast_becoming_a_MIDIholic)
|
1620.14 | The MTP way... | DYO780::SCHAFER | Brad - back in Ohio. | Fri Jun 09 1989 13:39 | 26 |
| Hey Dan -
It might help to think of THRU as a global assignment. MTP (and
probably Clab, from PK's description) rechannelizes all input to the
THRU channel. If you happen to be recording, c'est la vie. If not,
data gets rechannelized anyway - unless you're set to 0.
Your question was "what if I only want to hear channel 1, but want to
control the MVII in realtime?". Well, here's how I'd do it with MTP:
1. Set track containing channel 1 data to "solo" (SOLO is a feature of
MTP that mutes all tracks except the one[s] SOLOed). I'm sure that
Clab has a similar feature.
2. Set THRU channel to 0, telling the "echo" s/w module to soft thru
anything it encountered untouched. The THRU channel setting
should NOT affect playback whatsoever.
3. Set the current channel on the KX (single mode) to the MVII
channel (15 in my setup).
That should allow you to diddle all you want.
Of course, you could always fool with the MVII's front panel ... &*}
-b
|
1620.15 | more thanks | MIDI::DAN | All things are possible | Fri Jun 09 1989 16:52 | 14 |
| Hi Brad,
Yes, CLab does have a 'solo' function and I think it does exactly
what MTP's 'solo' does.
Why did you say to set the KX88 to single mode? Is it conceivable
to have one bank control the MVII and the other patch changes on
the TX802 (in Dual mode) and still have the Atari play (i.e. have
both the Atari and one bank set to the same channel)? I would be
to be able to demo voices *and* reverb/fx settings for particular
tracks while they play. Comments?
Thanks so far,
Dan
|
1620.16 | Experience, I guess (read: bit in pants one too many times) | DYO780::SCHAFER | Brad - back in Ohio. | Fri Jun 09 1989 23:19 | 27 |
| When I'm doing *anything* using the sequencer THRU, I make sure I'm in
single mode.
For example, say you're playing track 1 (MIDI channel=1, too) from your
sequencer, and your KX is set to xmit on channels 1 and 15 (1=TX802,
15=MVII). Well, any volume changes and what not that you happen to
errantly apply globally (for example, pushing the wrong patch bank
number or using the volume pedal) will screw up the TX802. Ends up
being somewhat confusing at times.
Another somewhat-related reason - you can clog up your SGU if you're in
dual mode while recording. A recent example - I recorded a basic FM
piano track a few months ago for a friend, evidently while my KX76 was
in dual mode. Well, the sequencer faithfully recorded data from BOTH
channels and rechannelized (just like it's supposed to do). Problem
is, rechannelization cut my polyphony in half, because is dual mode the
KX spits out twice as many notes as in single mode (2 notes for each
key pressed) ... and with a piano patch, the difference between 8 and
16 notes is like night and day.
It's darn near impossible to go thru in step mode and delete all the
unwanted notes ... and it's a rare sequencer that offers this type of
data thinning capability.
I ended up having to record the whole track over again.
-b
|
1620.17 | Arrange mode | MUNCSS::BURKE | Jim Burke, @UFC | Fri Aug 18 1989 07:31 | 17 |
| (thought I'd revive this note....)
I'm having a problem understanding how Arrange mode works. What I do
is:
I have little tune consisting of two bits - the first half
(Pattern 1), and the second half (Pattern 2) [ie. the two Patterns run
in 'serial', not 'parallel'].
I put Patterns 1 and 2 in Layer A, and when I play it, only one of
the two patterns play, depending on which Pattern is displayed in the
Pattern window.
However, when I put Patt 1 in Layer A, Patt 2 in Layer B, then both
Patterns play OK.
I'm missing something here. Can anybody enlighten ?
Thanks,
Jim Burke
|
1620.18 | | MIDI::DAN | All things are possible | Fri Aug 18 1989 17:30 | 39 |
| Hi Jim,
Well, I've used the 'arrange' mode before (and it works great!) so
hopefully I can help you out.
> I have little tune consisting of two bits - the first half
> (Pattern 1), and the second half (Pattern 2) [ie. the two Patterns run
> in 'serial', not 'parallel'].
Just to get the translation right, by serial you mean *sequentially*,
right? (Pattern 1 plays through its entirety, and then pattern 2 plays through)
Assuming this is the case....
> I put Patterns 1 and 2 in Layer A, and when I play it, only one of
> the two patterns play, depending on which Pattern is displayed in the
> Pattern window.
That's what's supposed to happen. *But*, when the first one stops, the
second one will start, provided you've turned the 'Arrange' mode on (its default
is '---'; it is located on the main screen, next to tempo, I think)
> However, when I put Patt 1 in Layer A, Patt 2 in Layer B, then both
> Patterns play OK.
Seems unnecessary to me - you should be able to have both patterns in
the same layer and have them play in order.
FWIW, I just got married on 8/5 and all of our music was sequenced
using Notator. What was really great about the 'Arrange' mode was that I
was able to have all of our ceremony music in one huge song, with each pattern
being a different tune. This was especially helpful because the person I had
run the equipment (a fellow DECcie) had never used an Atari computer before let
alone a sequencer. Anyway, I used pattern 0 (stop) in between songs so that
once the appropriate tune was over it would automatically stop. To start the
music from that point (the next pattern), he just had to hit the <.> on the
keypad. It went flawlessly......
Dan
|
1620.19 | Section Copy problems now ! | MUNCSS::BURKE | Jim Burke, @UFC | Wed Oct 04 1989 15:32 | 24 |
| Dan,
thanks for the help. I've fiddled about with it at length, and I
now have the hang of Arrange mode.
However; there are a few funnies, and I'm not sure whether it's
finger trouble or bugs. Here is one.
I am very suspicious of the COPY SECTION function. I have lost
data with this. I think I understand it OK, but I have had various
(usually disastrous) results.
Also, after exiting COPY SECTION (or is it COPY TRACK ?), the
screen is corrupt. I can save the file OK, but I have to restart
NOTATOR in order to get an intelligible screen back.
Has anyone had this trouble ? Are there any more suspicious
features ?
Having said that, I am dead chuffed with it. It can do just about
anything with a MIDI stream, and the notation editing/printing
facilities are the best I've seen.
Jim Burke
PS NOTATOR V2.1
|
1620.20 | no problems here.... yet... | MIDI::DAN | All things are possible | Wed Oct 04 1989 17:06 | 15 |
| Jim,
I just got my update of v2.1 last week and haven't had much time to
fool around with it, but I've used COPY TRACK and COPY SEGMENT in 2.0 without
a hitch - no disasters at all. I'll look into it (hopefully) this weekend and
post results next week.
> It can do just about
> anything with a MIDI stream, and the notation editing/printing
> facilities are the best I've seen.
I agree! I feel that the $$$$ investment was worth it - now I just
need to to get myself an HP Deskjet+.
Dan
|