Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I played bass in a band for a long time -- just pub gigs to finance
    new old precisions and the like. 
    
    I gave up piano lessons as a kid; for the past year I've been
    supplementing home study of piano with lessons from a jazz player,
    with the aim of playing again in one or two bands -- this time piano.
    I read the notesfile to get info and news on good performance gear
    that sounds great, can be lifted without medical insurance, and
    doesn't require a second mortgage. I also read the notesfile for
    fun -- and solidarity with others who enjoy listening to, and making,
    music.
                  
    Richard.

    
    re .-1 .-2
    
    Masturbating is one of my other hobbies as well !
    
    					Paul

    
    Well, I dunno about anyone else, but I play in a band, and we do
    play out. That does not preclude my use of the studio (which is
    not in my house, therefore one can play at loud volumes into the
    night). I have a drummer to play in the band, although I also have
    an Octapad so that if he's not around and I'm being creative I can
    get halfway decent rhythms out of Roland the headless drummer. 
    
    As for "my intentions", I long ago gave up even thinking I was going
    to be a big rock star - but since I work for a big company and make
    enough to afford my toys, I do so with a vengeance. I don't like
    to think about how much money I have spent on the studio at this
    point, and I'm hardly done with it. Kind of like boats, planes,
    old cars, etc. Call it a hobby if you like, it's more like a
    gentleperson's farm to me - lots of money invested with enough ROI
    to make it continue, sort of.
    
    /pjh

	'Musical masturbation' is an awfully severe term!  Is it being used to 
draw reactions?

	I have been in numorous bands as well as theatrical groups and would
probably still be if it weren't for the natural course of events my life has
taken.  I have a large family now and it is no longer practical for me to
arrange my schedule around 3 or 4 others.  What electronic music has afforded
me is to be able to rehearse on my own schedule with all the instruments I
would ever need to create the sound I like.  Heck, I have a drummer and a bass
at my slightest whim now, and they have never yet complained of the schedule I
have dictated to them (knock on silicon).  Not only that, but I have a full
orchestra that I never before could have dreamed of.  When I need voices, I can
set up the rehearsal time with the other people either at home, with the 
sequencer conducting, or snaff the band down on tape and go to their place.

	I think there are a couple of conclusions I derive from the previous
paragraph;  1)  Raising a family and the progression of added responsibilities
have limited my ability to be part of an active band.  Electronics have come in
to promote an outlet for the creative processes that have been and always will
be part of my life.  2)  I readily confess that electronics act as a substitute
for live performers in that they are both flexible in regards to time schedules
and that they will interpret a piece entirely the way I tell them to (which of 
course may be a disadvantage as much as an advantage).  I have never worked
with a drummer that played one of my compositions the way I wanted it played.
Now I'm in control.

	I don't know if that answers your question...

	Dan

    After years of "musically masterbating" in bands, I've just about
    decided to get serious and just write and record my own music
    in my own home studio.
    
    I get the highest satisfaction from creating excellent music.
    I don't get nearly so much satisfaction from the glory of the stage,
    impressing people, nor would I get much glory for selling a million
    records for Columbia records.
    
    I don't fault people with so called "serious" musical ambitions
    (record contracts, headlining Madison Square Garden, national
    attention, airplay, etc.).   I just feel like for *me*, that approach would
    turn music into a aggravating, time-consuming, compromising, and
    endlessly frustrating thing.  And the "accomplishments" of that
    approach (record contracts, MSG gigs, etc.) don't seem all that
    significant to me.  The accomplishments I seek are measured entirely
    on artistic terms.
    
    I don't wish to seem like the "uppity artist" type, but to me the
    most important thing is my assesment of the (artistic) VALUE of my music.
    
    The conclusion I seem to be coming to is that I wouldn't be happy
    or feel like I was accomplishing things if my goals were (as we
    say in MUSIC conference) MIB, Making It Big.  I think (and I'm not
    sure yet) that the most satisfying approach for me is to become
    a home studio type.
    
    Those of us working for DEC have the wonderful advantage that we
    don't need to compromise on any of our musical activities.  Our
    daily bread doesn't depend on the  next gig, or the next record,
    or whatever.  We can do music solely for the fun it.
    
    My main musical outlets in the future are likely to be playing
    in a FUN band (that's currently my highest priority), and writing 
    and recording at home.

    	"Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love"
    
    	db

    	Like R Machin, I'm in this primarily for the kicks.  Even when
    I was playing a lot, I never felt that I could make money doing
    it.  Now when I play, I PLAY; as in the opposite of WORK.  I am
    hoping my new electo-rig will give me a bit more spontaneity and
    flexibility than my acoustic piano.  I do not intend to replace
    it; hopefully augment my use of it.  As well, I see this new hobby
    as a logical blend of interests in music, electronics, stereo, and
    (dare I say it) computers.
    
    	I wholeheartedly agree with D Blickstein; I feel real fortunate
    that I don't have to rely on this new hobby to put food on the table.
    I can come home from work, fire this thing up, go for an hour or
    so, and then continue or move on to something else if I choose.
    When I was into model railroading, I always thought it was strange
    to see those club members who got obsessed with "prototypical" speed
    and the like.  I always thought it was taking the thing to seriously.
    So far, most of what I've read here seems to be retaining a sense
    of fun and humor.  
    	
    	BTW:  How can I get a copy of the COMMUSIC III Cassette?  After
    reading the reviews and tech notes, I'm dying to hear the reasons
    that people would let themselves in for such abuse.  SORRY, just
    kidding!!  I think this is a great way to learn and really would 
    like to get one if they're still available.   Thanx
    
    Clusters, 
    Bill                                               

    Wankers all, huh ?
    
    Well, the M-word in the topic note was copped from another noter's
    recent comments... and it does catch the eye.
    
    This is as good an opportunity as any to THANK the COMMUSIC noters
    for helping in my MIDIfication. I've always had some kind of recording
    setup, had  a 4track TEAC 'studio' as far back as 1976.
    
    What has happened for me is I've totally backed out of the live
    rock scene... too many broken up bands and crap cover material.
    I was lucky enough to get into several groups where writing and
    recording original material was the focus.. and somewhat later
    began solidifying my piano improvs into compositions.
    
    So today my goal and fun is to create cassette albums for 
    independent 'New Age' distribution channels. Let you know how it
    turns out.
    
    Also, I readily admit to being a control freak, and with my setup
    I can guide an orchestra.. and non-musicians take it as real,
    breathing, live musicians on tape. I love it.
    
    best, karl

    Hmmm, you mean I'm expected to actually *DO* something with it?
    I thought the goal was just to buy it. That's what the guy at the
    music store said....
    
    
    Actually, there's very few people out there who I'd be interested
    in being in a band with for, tons of reasons. Goals, ability,
    personalities, level of commitment, etc. With my band in a box,
    I don't get the hassle. We rehearse on my schedule, at my pace,
    at my level of intensity. Selfish? You betcha... But I *like*
    playing in/with a band and this is a quite acceptable alternative.
    
    Musical masturbation? ("Do-re-me-fa-sol-la-ti-doooo-ooooOOOOOOHHH!!!")
    Nah, I don't think of it as such. db said it better, it's sex with
    someone I love.
    
    Gotta admit though, the side of me that digs acceptance wants to
    compose at least one piece that knocks you all out.
    
    Oh yeah, my final goal is to have more toys than len. Lofty, I know...
    
    Edd                                                               

    What'd I use to do?  Broadcast engineer, FCC license, live broadcasts
    of bands in radio station studio (WRPI, Ten Thousand Stereo Watts of
    Musically Misguided M-word). 
    
    I got involved in the creating rather than the propagating of music
    because I actually saw just how bad some of these bozo "musicians"
    were.  Why, one band couldn't even keep their own vocalist from
    feeding back through his own PA. (they wanted us to mike from their
    speakers to get that "live" (i.e. distorted) sound.)  Well, if they
    could do it, I could do it!  Money, glamour, cute groupies, etc!!
    
    Why commusic rather than an excessively macho bass guitar?  Because
    I have a very weird sense of hearing.  I can easily hear the difference
    between two notes just .2% out of tune- but I can NOT tell that
    a guitar is tuned a fifth sharp!  With synths, you can just look
    at a couple of knobs or parameters and *know* what the instrument
    is pumping out.  (and yes, friends do "coarse-tune" their own violins,
    and then give them to me to tweak 'right on').
    
    What do I *do* with all of this stuff now?  I make horrible noises that
    scare the cat.  I still mix (and do the synthesized sound effects) for
    a band.  It sinks ten hours or so a week, and gives me the illusion
    that I am learning something about a "cultured activity".  And I spend
    lots of money on toys my S.O. says Should Not Be Left Where Polite
    Company Can See Them. 
    
    But it keeps me off the street.  
    
                                                              
    
    	A: You're very good at sex...
    
    	B: Well, I practice a lot when I'm alone.
    							-Woody Allen

    Hmm actually I enjoy not having to play human jukebox anymore...
    it's fun ot record my own stuff and then get all pumped up just
    to go down in flames as the commusic n reviews float in...:-)
    
    I'd actually like to capture some ROI on my investment. So I inted
    to at least try to get published and seel some of my stuff. Ideally
    I'd be the artist that recorded it but I have less and less faith
    in achieving that as time goes on....especially after watching MTV
    and seeing what passes as current hits....                 
    
    As the bug is biting me to play out again, I love live performance more
    than anything, most probably I'll be putting another band together,
    probably will be straight R&B again...and I hope to bring my old
    R&B band to winterjam just for the hell of it, even with no payday
    
    I intend to have as many toys as pleases me and 8 track being one
    of the more pressing purchases in my future...I'm not as brave as
    Edd though...I could never have as many toys as Len on my budget
    
    dave
    
    

    Hey, it's my hobby, you know?
    
    Everybody's said one or another part of it already:
    
    	1)  I'm in charge, everything gets done my way.  No "artistic
    	    differences", no "off nights", no drunken bassists (ok,
    	    bassists, keyboardists (and drummers, and vocalists, and
    	    ...) get loose too) etc.
    
    	2)  I can do it whenever I want to; no need to find one or
            more nights a week that everyone can get together.
    
    	3)  I can do it at home - no need to haul my drumset all over
    	    town, only to tear it down and haul it home again in the
    	    wee hours of the morning.
    
    	4)  I don't have to make any money doing it.
    
    	5)  I don't have to please anybody but myself.  If anybody else
   	    likes what I've done, that's just icing on the cake.
           
    	6)  I love fooling around with this sort of technology.
    
    That said, I am not on retainer to Roland, have not bought a piece
    of equipment for almost a year now, and miss the fun of playing
    in front of a live audience (but I also easily recall the downside
    of playing out).
    
    len.
    

    
    
    well, i haven't long since given up anything.
    i see no reason to.
    
    ok, so i'm not a mature adult.
    ok, so i'm naive enough to believe that i have a shot at making
    it regardless of how old i am or how many noters detest me.
    
    i  pay here, i play there, i jam with people, i try to get
    bands together but, even though i'm as good a musician as
    any other noter, nobody likes me enough to play with me...
    
    i can take it.
    
    i record and write and i'll keep trying till the day i'm dying...
    and on the day i drop
    is the day i'll stop
    
    actually, i'm enjoying more "success" now than ever...
    
    did last winterjam and this past falljam
    doing a party this thursday
    played at a concert with rod mashia last spring
    
    and i now have a number of musicians (can you believe...noters?)
    who are interested in being parttime musicians with me and my
    music....
    
    it's something....
    
    

    re:-.1
    
    Gee, looks like a poem.  Did you set that to music?
    
    re:the rest
    
    Like most, I don't really care who listens.  I'm not planning to
    'make it' as a composer.  I'm driven to compose, but I'm lousy at
    real-time, so I use synths.  So far, the stuff I've done has allowed
    me to express feelings that others can also feel.  This gives me
    a thrill because it is a way to share good feelings.  It has had
    a nice impact on my family and on close friends.  I would much rather
    be an engineer that does music on the side than a musician doing
    engineering on the side.  And, my dream is to someday start doing
    more hymns for church, soundtracks for low-budget movies and slide
    shows, and just have fun dabbling with lots of different kinds of
    sounds and sequences - whatever catches my interest.
    
    Steve

I was corresponding with Dave Blickstein (whom I regard as a *real* musician)
about things and got to rambling.  Thought I'd post some of this ...


The way I figure it, the day I start getting uptight about
what I write is the day I toss creativity out the window.  If it is YATLT (Yet
Another Typical Love Theme), then let it BE that.  I find that each song is 
like a little kid that you love and nurture.  It doesn't always grow up the way 
you want it to and so the best you can do is to help it figure out what it 
wants to be when it grows up and then help it to reach its potential.  Also, 
it sometimes helps me to put down a project and start another.  Come back to 
the old project when you feel refreshed.  My next project will be one that 
I've started twice and put down to work on other stuff.  Also, don't worry 
about where your next tune is going to come from.  Relax, experience life, and 
hum to yourself whatever you feel like humming at the time.  We all have tunes 
going through our heads all of the time, and it's usually subconscious.  
People who insist on having absolute control over what tunes go through their 
heads become composers, because eventually they find out that they prefer 
their own little tunes to what others create for them.

Probably the greatest source of new material is language.  I went on a mission
for my church in Denmark for two years.  When I first landed there, I thought
their music was kind of wierd and quirky.  But, after I bacame fluent in the
language their music suddenly became vibrant and alive, because I began to
feel how the language and the music were related.  The same holds so true 
for English and the music we tend to like here.  I did a paper on this a few
years ago.  Turns out there is a science behind it.  Anyway, the place to find
new musical ideas is in the language of everyday life.  And, the place to find
feeling is in what happens in your life. (Hmmm, maybe I should have made this
a note entry ...)

I usually just try to squeeze time in whenever I can
get it (like the wee hours)...  Fortunately, I'm not in demand or good enough
to do 'music things', which leaves most of my time for diddling! :-)



Steve

    > I was corresponding with Dave Blickstein (whom I regard as a 
    > *real* musician)
    
    While I'm honored to be "regarded" in that way, I feel that if I've
    given you that impression, I certainly owe you an apology cause:
    
    1) This musician has never earned a single damn buck as a musician
    
    2) This musician's only gigs have been the 3 DECjams (aside from
       the occasional playing at private parties).   If one measures
       musicianship by "paying dues", then I am seriously in arrears.
    
    3) This musician has yet to COMPLETE a single original tune of his
       own.
    
    4) This musician can't even get into a band right now.
    
    5) This musician never had a goal of being a professional (pipe dreams
        don't count).
    
    	db

    re .14, .15:
    
    You don't have to be a "MUSICIAN" to appreciate fine music. An easy
    pitfall with music is that enjoy what others do much more than your
    own music. The comparison with other more experienced musicians
    is almost inevitable, which means you have to develop a sense of
    humility very early ( or isolate yourself completely ). The thing
    you have to do when practicing is to strive for personal performance,
    I believe, not to compare yourself with this or that other musician.
    They have been playing longer, and will always have more experience.
    
    The thing to ask is, " Am I improving? ". Any musician worth half
    a crap isn't interesting in being a musician (whatever that means),
    he's interested in learning music. The moment you stop learning,
    you might as well pack it up and kiss it goodbye.
    
    As far as language is concerned, I think the most interesting stuff,
    and perhaps the best stuff, is when the artist finds a new way of
    looking at things, that is, using language in a way that has never
    been used before. The keyword for music is perspective. A good way
    to get inspiration for music is to perform some self examination
    of your feelings, and find a new way of looking at them. Sometimes,
    a musical phrase can trigger this experience, causing you to think
    of something you never thought of before. The thing to do is to
    tune yourself to what is happening. Your mind shapes the music,
    and the music shapes your mind. Have something in mind.
    
    						John.

                            
                            
    RE-2                    
                            
    Dave you are confusing money with the real issue *again*.   
                                                              
    IF you play and enjoy it, which it sounds like you do, then surely
    you qualify. I have earned a living as a "musician" but found that
    living in a Van and cheap hotels was not quite what Paul McCartney
    had to do. Also the amount you actually got to play was fairly small.
                            
    I.E. 40 minutes a night to a crowd who didn't want to listen ( well
    sometimes ). I prefer things as they are now. I don't make any money
    from it, but it's much more fun. 
                                   
    If I never have to carry a Marshall amp up another set of stairs
    I will have lost nothing. 
                                                      
       					Paul.                     
       

    
    dave...
    reasons 1-5 do NOT invalidate you as a serious musician...
    
    one need only hear you play to know that you are truly a musician.

    don't thank me for the truth
    

    If worst comes to worst, you can always become a pilot (Isn't that
    the next step for some musicians??)
    
    I think that as a musician, you have to figure out what you want
    out of it, and then shoot for that. If you enjoy just poking around,
    and sing-alongs, that great, If you want to experiment in your home
    studio, or try to become a virtuoso, that's great too. This is probably
    why there are so many types of music, and people in the field. It's
    art, and it's a personal vision.  I tired of Vans & Hotel rooms
    back in the early 70's also, so I reset my goals & find that I enjoy
    what I do & I ain't competing with anyone but myself anymore.
    
    							Jens