Conference hbahba::cam_sports

    Well, how about that AFC (L)East!  The AFC finals will feature two
    teams from that maligned division.

hopefully Buffalo survives. The thought of watching crybaby Dan and Shula
in the big one is very disturbing to me. Almost as disturbing as watching
Dallas make it.....

mike

    Dallas and SF for the NFC title !!!! One could not have asked for a
    better matchup.  
    
    I honestly feel that the 'Boys are a year away from the Super Bowl, but
    they have progressed quite nicely these past few years.  One wonders
    how the new NFL Agreement will affect this team, and whether we will be
    able to get Reggie White to come play DL for us next year.
    
    All in all an excellent year for the 'Boys.  My prediction for the
    games this weekend:
    
                      Buffalo @Miami:  24-20
                      Dallas @SF:      10-34
    
    Next year the SB will belong to Dallas, as this is SF last hurrah.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    	Hey BigMac, the whole AFC stinks!  MikeC, I personally would
    love to see the Dolphins stomp the Bills next week and have that
    Miami drug money push the Super Bowl line to some small number,
    'cuz the NFC will dominate again.  Plus after watching the 'Phins
    yesterday a comeuppance for them would be fun to watch.
    
    				/Don

Well of the remaining teams, each has a chance of making Super Bowl 
History.

San Fran, of course, can be the firsted to 5 Super Bowls.

Dallas can become the third team to LOSE 4 Super Bowls.

Miami can also become the third team to Lose 4 Super Bowls.  Don the Genius
Shula has a chance for his 5th Super Bowl loss.

Buffalo can lose its 3rd straight Super Bowl.

JD

    Well, out of the teams that were in the playoffs, the 2 I least wanted
    to win it are still in, and the the 2 I most wanted to see win it are
    still in.
    
    Sure was a satisfying win for Miami yesterday, after what seems like
    the whole country picked the Chargers.
    
    
    Joe

    
    Well I have to get this off my chest as I'm still a little peeved.
    
    I watched some of the Bills-Steelers game beginning with the fluff
    piece OJ Simpson did on the O'Donnell family. I'm not a big fan of
    OJ's reporting style, but thought he was doing a decent job painting
    the picture of Neil O'Donnell and his dedicating the season to his
    ill father.
    
    Well OJ is ending the piece talking about the time he spent with
    the two O'Donnell brothers who reside in New York when he IGNORANTLY
    states, and I paraphrase " I spent the evening with Tom and Peter
    O'Donnell, and they must have thought I was Irish because I still
    have a big headache to prove it."  What an ignorant ~/~! 
    Here's a man who's been in the public limelight for years, and
    as a African-American has probably seen more racism and stereotyping
    than I could ever imagine, and he's unbelievably making a statement
    reinforcing another negative stereotype!!!  I was absolutely livid
    and apoplectic!  Hell, I probably overreacted as OJ definitely meant
    no harm, but dammit, HE should know and be sensitive about these
    things. 
    Well I'm about to pen a letter to OJ and NBC protesting this type
    of statement. Dammit, OJ, THINK before you say something like that
    on national TV!  Damn, I can equate what he said to some of Al
    Campanis' ignorant statements. Hell, I'm no PC person, but in
    his position of influence, OJ oughta be more careful in the words
    he chooses.
    
    Flame off,
    MikeL
    
    
    

	Mike,  I heard the same thing and had the same reaction you did. 
	I turned to my wife and asked her if he will get the same treatment 
	Jimmy "the Greek" got.  

	I think not, although he deserves it.

	Bill

    Didn't see it, but I can sympathize with you...
    

    So how would theyhave scheduled the games on Sunday if SD had won? 2
    games on the West Coast, anyone know??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

TCM:

One game would have been a morning (PST) start.  

REgarding Sunday:

It sure was nice seeing the "Ultimate QB Weapon" do his bounce pass
routine.  Crandall Runningham, the most overrated QB in the league, and
approaching all-time overrated status.   He still can't read zone
defenses, and he's still enamoured with his own physical skills.   Then
again, I guess most folks would bounce passes trying to throw while
choking.

Oh, and before the season, I told Bob Hunt that Herschal would fumble
ina big game.  Nice cough up, Hershal.

JD

    First Gastineau, now this.  Will the Sack Exchange become the Chain
    Gang?
    
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (United Press International)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc,clari.sports.top

Subject: Former football pro pleads in fraud case
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 15:20:40 PST

	PHILADELPHIA (UPI) -- Former New York Jets All-Pro defensive lineman
Joe Klecko pleaded guilty Monday to lying to a grand jury investigating
auto insurance fraud.
	Klecko, of Malvern, faces sentencing April 8. The plea came shortly
before his trial in a federal courtroom was to begin.
	Klecko was caught up in a scheme which led to the arrest of 67 people
for allegedly trying to defraud Sun Oil. The scheme involved cars
allegedly damaged by emissions from Sun's Marcus Hook refinery.
	Klecko was apparently one of a number of auto and truck owners
recruited to lend their registrations so that false claims could be
submitted. When called to testify before a grand jury, Klecko lied about
the condition of his truck.
	Klecko's lawyer John Wing said the former football player knew
nothing of the scheme and was trying to protect friends. Wing said
Klecko appeared before the grand jury without a lawyer and was unaware
investigators knew his story was false.
	Klecko, who played collegiately at Temple, was a member of the Jets
from 1977-87. He was voted to the Pro Bowl after the 1981, 1983, 1984
and 1985 seasons and was a member of the defensive line known as the 
``New York Sack Exchange.''

    
    re Irish drinking:
    
    As some of you know, I've been working quite a bit with Irish people,
    as my customer is building a new factory in Ireland.  I've met 40-50 
    Irish people, either DEC employees or customers, and their family in
    the last 18 months.  To a person, they all backed up the reputation
    (and some of it I witnessed) of the Irish as drinkers, and didn't seem
    upset about it.  What DID bother them is when Americans of Irish
    descent pass themselves off as being Irish.  They can't understand that
    at all.
    
    Brews

    What's your point Brews?
    
    That I shouldn't be offended by OJ's ignorant statement?
    I'm an American who happens to have some Irish ancestors. 
    The negative stereotype perpetrated by Simpson referred to "Irish"
    as heavy drinkers. That insulted *me* as an American with some
    Irish background. I do not speak for anyone else, whether they be
    Irish or not. The fact is that his statement offended me by
    furthering a perceived stereotype. Just because your Irish
    cohorts laugh it off doesn't mean I or anyone else with an Irish
    background feels the same way. 
    
    And you can tell your Irish friends that this person regards himself
    as an American with Irish ancestors, not an Irishman, if that makes
    them feel any better.
    
    MikeL
      
    

    
    My point is that you ain't Irish, and people whine about the littlest
    things.  There are few Irish people who would have a problem with what
    he said (maybe Sinead, but the Irish are embarassed about her anyway).
    
    Brews

      I have Irish background in me, and some native american indian, and
    It didn't offend me.  Course I like to drink when the occasion is
    right.
    
      Tim

    Hey, if the Americans who happen to be of Irish decent don't want to be
    associated with drinking, then why all the St. Patty's day hoopla? 
    
    Youze guys are too sensative...they've been stereotyping us
    Italian-Americans as good looking, stylish, and intelligent for years
    and it hasn't bothered me one bit.
    
    Get a life, will ya?
    
    JoJ_NOT

    
     I know...  I'm 50% IA and I get that stuff all the time, JoJ_Not !
    
    BG

      reply .19 sounds sooooo much like the Jo*,  don't ya agree?           
    
       The AFC will rool again.  Give it 2-3 years;^)
    
    
      Does anyone have the stats as to the afc vs nfc this year?
    
    
      Tim

    
    Yabbut
    
    Being 50% tall, I find myself offended, half the time, with jokes
    about the weather!
    
    I remain,
    "wardling" on the other half!
    ;^)
    Kev
    

    I'll put this to rest now.
    
    *I* was offended and it pissed me off. I'm not Irish and do you
    think OJ was referring to natives of Ireland only? I ain't asking for
    his job, an apology, nuttin, bros.  What pissed me off is that he
    made this ignorant statement in a national medium. He should know
    better and shut his big mouf! So y'all can go pound sand in telling me
    how I should react. I gots a pretty thick skin, mo buichailles ( dat's
    Irish ISFH), and I've heard much worse than that. And as far as gittin'
    a life, I gots one danke, and shall continue to have one and don't need
    advice. 
    Case closed, let's get back to football.
    
    SF over Dallas by 6
    Buffalo over Miami by 3.
    
    And my name ain't Jimbo. 8^)
    
    MikeL
    

    
    OJ's a dork.  His line may or may not have offended most Irish
    Americans but the fact that he apparently didn't even think twice about
    it just fits the general pattern he's demonstrated over the years as 
    one of the worst broadcasters/reporters to ever settle in behind a 
    microphone.  I mean, the guy has been *horrible* for years, but his
    name keeps him in a job.  Kinda like Joe Namath.
    
    However, MikeL, I think you might have a better case against Notre
    Dame... ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    Ah but glenn mon ami,
    
    The ND "Fighting Irish" is not purported to represent the popular
    notion of the "Irish" as internecine warriors. It was intended to
    represent the valor and courage of the "Irish-American" brigades
    of both the Union and Confederacy during the Civil War or War Between
    the States; thus no negative stereotyping yet a positive depiction.
    
    Mainfully the words "although the odds be great or small..." carries
    through this storied depiction into Four Horseman legend and deed.
    But I wax poetic in the wrong note... There I feel much better.
    Danke, mein freund, for the gentle prod.
    
    
    
    Ahhhhh,
    MikeL
     

    
    > The ND "Fighting Irish" is not purported to represent the popular
    > notion of the "Irish" as internecine warriors. It was intended to
    > represent the valor and courage of the "Irish-American" brigades
    > of both the Union and Confederacy during the Civil War or War Between
    > the States; thus no negative stereotyping yet a positive depiction.
    
    This is getting off the beaten track, but is this actual origin of the
    nickname?  I had heard some hackeneyed tale of how the Indiana
    homesteaders oft made jest of the (French) Notre Dame fathers and
    followers, picking fights with them in town and usually getting the 
    desired results.  These ignorant Indianans thought that the French
    were Irish, and such was born the nickname.  At least this is how I
    heard the story from some ND alum somewhere down the line...
    
    glenn
    

    
    -1,
    Didn't hear that one glenn. But I do know that ND was known as the
    "Ramblers" until the early 20's ( Rockne era). 
    I heard and seen the story I narrated. 
    The one thing that *is* true is that the slogan has nothing to do with
    the battles in and amongst Eire. 
    
    Oh well, 
    Back to pro football??
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Bruce -
    
    Um, are you of Irish descent?  I have mucho relatives in Ireland.
    There is a movement to stop the portrayal of the 'paddy'.
    
    In the states, theres a movement to stop it also.  Its stereotyping 
    Bruce - just like using the Uncle Tom figure, for instance, for 
    African AMericans, or a mafia hit man for all Italians, or
    soccer players for folks like you.
    
    Given that drunken portrayals of the Irish started with the British 
    as a form of comedy for the landed gentry (actors were British, of
    course), the stereotype is just that.
    
    JD

    
    >>Didn't hear that one glenn. But I do know that ND was known as the
    >>"Ramblers" until the early 20's ( Rockne era). 
       ^^^^^^^^
    What'd they have to do with AMC Motors????  Were they as horrible back
    then as Ramblers were????
    
    JaKe
    
    

    
    
    	The problem with this whole O.J. thing is that if the shoe were
    on the other foot, we'd be seeing Jesse, Rev. Al, and the ACLU asking
    for a retraction along with a resignation.
    
    	Seems to me that I recall Howard Cosell on a national TV broadcast
    calling a Redskin widereciver a 'little monkey' (not in a derrogatory
    way) and it was blown completely out of proportion.  Marg Schott makes
    some comments and again, she is completely raked through the media.
    
    	Now, OJ makes a derrogatory comment which just so happens to
    involve a ethnic white group.  Ahh, but this was 'funny'...no harm,
    no foul.  It was all in jest!  So they all say.  And then some even
    say, "well, isn't it true?"
    
    	This plainly stinks of bias in the media.  Again, Jesse can call
    NY 'hymietown' and it is brushed off.  OJ can call the Irish a bunch
    of drunkards and it is laughed off.  But, let anyone say that blacks
    are lazy and not as smart as white folks, and they are labeled with
    the KKK.
    
    	I for one do not brush this off so easily.  I'm not Irish, but
    I do see a double standard here and those that feel offended have
    a right to say so.  And OJ should be brought to task on the comment!
    
    bill..g.
    

    
    I don't know what my heritage has to do with this, but I do have some
    Irish blood in me, along with just about everything else.  OJ's remarks
    didn't bother me, because I'm not whiney and didn't let it.  Remarks
    about Scots, Germans, the English or American Indians don't bother me
    either.  Try being thick-skinned and having a sense of humor, it makes
    life more pleasant.
    
    Still haven't seen any Irish upset about the comments.
    
    Brews

>    either.  Try being thick-skinned and having a sense of humor, it makes
>    life more pleasant.
>    
>    Still haven't seen any Irish upset about the comments.
    
Hmmm.

In reading this note all at once (haven't been in the file in a couple
of days) I got the impression that the issue wasn't so much the comment,
as it was the insensitive and careless way it was made.

Not wanting to start a rathole, but billG had a point.  No one gets upset
when OJ makes a stereotypical comment about a group of white people, 
but if it were the other way around.....


Oh well.....


'Saw

Bruce -

I too don't get all upset about it.  But to me, it seemed that you 
dismissed folks being angry cuz you've had drinks with some
Irishmen.   That's all.

JD

PS:  Jim Kelly, an obvious drunken Irish-American, will start vs. the
Dolphins this weekend.    

Signing off to get sloshed and eat some potato.

    Bruce you just don't get it.
    You state that you haven't heard any "Irish" upset about it.
    As JD pointed out, this stereotype began about the Irish in Ireland
    and continued to include any American ( or Canadian, Australian, etc)
    of Irish background. Can't you see that?
    The fact remains that OJ furthered a negative stereotype by his
    ignorant statement and I was offended. Period.
    
    And 'Saw, my beef is with the comment AND the careless and ignorant
    way that OJ presented it. But I ain't calling for his haid, just that
    he think before he says something like that.
    
    Latah,
    MikeL
    

    > Seems to me that I recall Howard Cosell on a national TV broadcast
    > calling a Redskin widereciver a 'little monkey' (not in a derrogatory
    > way) and it was blown completely out of proportion.  Marg Schott makes
    > some comments and again, she is completely raked through the media.
    
    I wouldn't equate the comments that Marge Schott made with any of these
    other examples.  Her statements were clearly hateful and her front
    office hiring record suggests that she did more than just say things,
    but actually acted on them.  You make statements like "I'd rather have 
    a trained monkey working for me than a n&^$%$" and the record backs it
    up, you should be held accountable.  I don't think she's received
    excessively negative media attention.
    
    OJ was perhaps insensitive but it's fairly obvious that his comments
    were *not* derogatory (yes, same as Cosell).  In the context that he
    used he did not come close to calling the Irish "a bunch of drunkards". 
    After all, in the story *he* was the one slugging back the drinks to 
    the point where his head hurt the next day.  OJ tried to inject some 
    self-deprecation into a little joke but used bad judgment. 
    
    glenn
      
    

>    And 'Saw, my beef is with the comment AND the careless and ignorant
>    way that OJ presented it. But I ain't calling for his haid, just that
>    he think before he says something like that.
    
Okay.  I thought you had downplayed the comment a bit to highlight the
ignorance of OJ making it.   I get it now.


'Saw    

    Hate to disrupt you sunburned lushes but there was an interesting
    report out of Mobile yesterday (site of the NFL Coach's Convention and
    Senior Bowl).  Many times, owners and potential coaches show up as well
    for filling openings and interviewing.
    
    - All NFL teams are represented there except for the 4 playoff teams and 
      the Phoenix Cardinals.  
    - Pat Bowlen is there
    - Ditka isn't there.
    
    Mike

    
    
    	The point is that I'm not offended either, but it just shows that
    there is an inbalance in how the media reacts.  I wasn't taken aback
    by any of it, but it is sad when one group or groups create a feeding
    frenzy over the same type of comment while the other goes ingnored.
    
    	Believe me, if had been Bradshaw making a comment that dealt with
    a minority race, folks would be calling for his head.  But I guess
    since it was OJ, and since no one got, nor should they have gotten
    offended by the comment, we'll just let it slide.
    
    bill..g.
    

    More importantly, how many Irish QB's have ever won the Superbowl?
    
    JoJ_the_peacemaker

    Why JoJ!
    You're favorite Jest!! Namath had to have some Irish in him, no?
    Didn't he win the Supe wif a massive hangover? ( or was that the
    champeenship game agin Oakland?)
    
    8^),
    MikeL
                          

    Hey Brews, we're gonna have to start a Cardinals topic if the clowns
    hire Dikka.

    
    Geez, just 1 week into the new conference, and the topic has been
    irrevoccably rat-holed ...
    
    "I jez thank that's SAAAAAD !"
    
    Carry on.
    
    - acp

    After watching the NFC championship game, I cannot believe that the
    network announcers (Madden & Summerall) wouldn't point out the "flow"
    of the game being affected by several well palced (and well thrown)
    penalty flags, taking scores and momentum from the 49ers. I am a fan of
    neither team (I'm an Eagles fan, for what that's worth) but the two
    holding calls were obscene and caused a 14 point swing in the final
    score. After the second "holding call" (Holding on an RB on a play
    fake... not likely), my wife and I turned it off, knowing that the NFL
    wanted the 'boys to win and that it would work out that way. I have
    zero interest in the Super Bowl and will watch it minimally. Is the
    mass public that big a sheep that they cannot see what's going on?!?!
    
    Dennis Faust
    

    re: .47
    
    Heck of a charge. Guess I'm just one of the sheep who can't see whats
    going on.  Oh yeah, I loathe the Cowboys and was hoing they would lose.
    At least Miami lost.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    > I am a fan of
    > neither team (I'm an Eagles fan, for what that's worth) but the two
    > holding calls were obscene and caused a 14 point swing in the final
    > score.
    
    Well, I was rooting for the 49ers (this Super Bowl is going to be hard
    to stomach, all the way around, but if I must-- Go Bills!), but the 
    first holding call was legit, on a pass rusher coming right up the
    middle to prevent a sack.  I won't comment on the second one, the
    defensive holding, except to say that it probably prevented an exciting
    finish for neutral onlookers.
    
    glenn
    

The refs calls did affect the flow of the game.  McIntyre was holding,
sure nuf.   But on reply, on the last TD, the Boys tackle is clearly
holding.  Same on other plays.

Consistency was not their, IMO.   

Niners turnovers cost them dearly.

A nightmare SuperBowl.  The Cowboys, the team that CBS and the NFl
want back on top, the team with the most obnoxious fans of all 
time (and fairweather fans, to boot - witness the empty seats a 
few years back), coupled with the Bills, a team with a girly m on
offense.

Wow is me.

JD

Tommy B. -

Are you a Cowboy fan?

JD

    Pretty ridiculous claim there, Dennis.  If anything, the league would
    want their precious Niners to stay at the top and go for their fifth
    ring with Montana playing in the Super Bowl in "heroic" fashion.  And
    in case you didn't notice, flags are thrown when the penalty occurs,
    not after the play is over.  It's not like the refs wait and see what 
    happens on the play and if it's bad for Dallas, decide to pull out a flag.
    
    
    Joe

    C'mon JD, 95% of the world is a Cowboy fan, now. Again.  I guess the
    loss so shook you up that your usually excellent spelling abilities got
    a case of Caso.  
    
    Penalties and turnovers did the 9ers in.  Without the 1st half
    turnovers, game would have been over at halftime.  Cowboys did very
    well in not committing either faux pas.  I was hoping JJ's screw up in
    going for it on 4th down was going to come back to haunt him, but no
    such luck.
    
    One thing people have never given the Reagan/Bush era credit for is for
    ending the Cowboys' era.  I think it is little more than coincidental
    that the 1st post Reagan/Bush Superbowl is going to feature the
    Cowboys.  I'm sure MrT would have had some sort of conspiracy theory
    for this.
    
    And one more thing, JR, Mr. Cowboys R Us, I'm doing a Sh$%load of
    International business, but I ain't gonna use your support!!  8^)
    
    Haven't cheered for the AFC team since '79
    
    Brews
    
    
    
      

	Here we go again blaming the ref with the loss. Both teams got penalized 
when they commited fouls. Like the previous note said the refs don't wait for
the play to complete before the throw the flag. 

       The Cowboys outplayed the 9 er's at the Stick and won. All the crying and 
whining in the world is not going to change the outcome. The BS that the
league wanted the 9er's to lose is just that, BS!! The 9 er's turned the ball
over to many times and it cost them at least ten points.  


 
	Cadzilla

    geeez Tommy, you make it sound like I am calling you a Cowboys fan.  I
    wwould never denigrate your character (for Cowboysfans, that means "say
    bad things about") in such a manner.  No one has really blamed it on
    the refs, except for some deranged Eagles fan (oxymoron, I know), and
    who has ever paid attention to him before?
    
    8^)
    Brews

The Crazy Met

    Who ever woulda thunk it, an Eagle fan and a Giant fan whining about a
    Cowboy victory.  Next thing you know, we'll see a Redskin fan in here.

    I didn't see the McIntyre play, and I'm not even sure what the second
    call was. Niners defense cost them the game, plain and simple.
    
    FWIW, my roommates and friends were whining about the Bills game when
    they had a TD called back because of holding and how the refs were
    biased.  I don't know, I just watch the game, I ain't paid for reffing.
    

Karen,

I thought you were a native New Englander. How'd your brothers end up
as Cowboy fans??

The Crazy Met

>              How'd your brothers end up
>as Cowboy fans??
    
Inbreeding

    Ms. Derry,
    
    Please do not take my remark in .63 as a dispersion of your character,
    upbringing or parentage.  I was attempting to find the only plausible
    reason for such a tragedy to strike your family, and meant no offense.
    
    Brews

Brews,

Karen's p-name obviously refers to her brothers :-) Anyway her note
mentions mutant genes.

The Crazy Met

    I realize that, TCC.  However, I wasn't sure what context my remarks
    would be taken in.  Generally, it's not nice to say that someone's
    siblings are the result of inbreeding, and I had some second thoughts
    about entering it.  Hopefully, she takes it in the spirit it was meant.
    
    Brews

>  I realize that, TCC.

One warning is all your gonna get Brews :-) We're back to TCM. Just
remember you may need infor from me again.

The Crazy Met

    set mode BAAAAAAA
    
    THE OFFICIALS WERE FINE
    THE OFFICIALS WERE FINE
    THE OFFICIALS WERE FINE
    
    Set mode normal
    
    I would like everyone in here who criticized my comments to tell me how
    many times they've seen a RB tackled on a play fake. Now tell me how
    many times they've seen a holding call on it. It just strikes me a bit
    "strange" that on a 3rd down pass, you would try to throw the ball to
    the guy you play faked to. 
    
    OK OK you win, (in drone like voice) the officials have no effect on
    the outcome of the game..... they simply call it even..... it's just a
    pod, it won't hurt you..... All cowboys fans are unbiased....
    

Gee, TCC is sure sensitive... (I doubt I'll ever need information from him)

re: holding

Remember every 0-lineman holds on every play.  They get called when their 
hands get too far away from their body, which is what happened in the 
Dallas/SF game.   Very seldom does an o-lineman complain about a holding call.

re: Cowboys

I dunno, I found it much easier to hate the Landry/Staubach (sp?)/Bob Hayes 
teams than these teams.  Emmit Smith is a great back, and they really work 
hard in the trenches.  If it weren't for JJ I could possibly even (gulp) like 
them.

=Bob=

re: .71

Haven't you noticed that even the Cowboy haters don't agree that there was
a conspiracy?  Officials may not have been consistent but this is not the
first time or the last time that will happen.  But that is a pretty flimsy
argument for bias by the officials.

The Crazy Met

    re: .73
    
    If I was looking for consensus, I wouldn't have said anything. That
    others don't agree doesn't change the situation. IMO, the inconsistency
    of calls and outright awful calls had an adverse affect of the NFC
    championship game. It certainly had an affect on the momentum. As I
    said before, I wasn't routing for either team, I just wanted a decent
    game. I didn't get that, because of the guys in the striped shirts. I
    guess it isn't macho to talk about officials being a factor of the
    game, but they are, just like the condition of the field and both of
    the teams playing. To deny that if foolish and mistaken, IMO.
    
    Dennis Faust
    

re: .74

Officiating definitely can affect a game, no argument there. Only argument
is with the claim that the refs were purposely making calls that favored the
Cowboys.

re: .72 - Bob "I'm a big Pat Riley fan" Mccullough

Nah, Cowboys are just as hateable now as they were in the Landry/Staubach
years.

The Crazy Met

	RE.74

   At what point did you see a outright awful call, when the LB blew his coverage
 and tackled the Smith after he broke through the line. Or was it the holding
 call that nullified the Rice TD in first half? Both were clearly visable via
 the replay given by CBS and the observation of the Madden and Summerall. 

  The 9er's lost the game on turnovers. Ask or listen to most any coach, annoucer,
  etc, that most of these big games are lost due to turnovers. The 9er's had 4,
  that led to 10 COWBOY points. The COWBOYS had one, and the 9er's didn't 
  capitalize on the COWBOY mistake.  The Bills beat the Dolphins on 5 turnovers
  which they turned into points that led to their win.

    Why is when the opposing team wins, its always because the ref's blew a 
 call  and not because they played a better game?

 Cadzilla
   

    	To paraphrase Denny...  I hate the Cowboys, but I love money.
    Lay the points.
    
    				/Don

    SF, lost the game on D. Basically Dallas let them beck in but going on
    4th . Following the 9er td, the D couldn't stop Dallas on the next
    posession. I  really wanted to see the 49er's win, but oh well. The 
    penalties had soemwhat of an impact, the call in the 4th, that was
    pivital. But good teams rebound. Look at last years SB, the Redskins
    had a TD called back, several penalties early but over came them.
    
    Plain and simple the D wins the big games for you. 

    
    	At the very end of the 1st half, Aikman was either sacked or
    	tackled for a 1-2 yard gain on 2cd down.  Whatever, he didn't
    	make a 1st down.  There was only like 10-15 seconds left and
    	they had no timeouts left.  The ref stopped the clock to spot
    	the ball allowing Dallas a little extra time to line up and 
    	spike the ball immediately after the ref started the clock	
    	back up.  They would have had a very hard time getting lined
    	up to spike the ball if the ref hadn't stopped the clock
    	because their receivers were downfield.  Dallas went on to
    	kick a field goal.
    
    	My question is, do the refs normally stop the clock to spot the
    	ball?  I couldn't ever remember seeing this before (except for
    	college when a 1st down is made to reset the chains).
    
    Claybroon 

    RE: .80
    Clay, I wasn't watching real close near the end of the half so I can't
    comment on the clock stopping, but the Cowboys missed that field goal
    anyway.
    
    Joe

    
    I was wondering why the clock was stopped, but also was relieved when
    the FG was missed.
    
    Brews

    I was happy the Sowboys beat the 49ers.
    
    I'm sicka San Francisco.
    
    Back in the 60' when the STEELERS totally STUNK, I liked watching the
    Sowboys.
    
    Then, when the STEELERS was winning Super Bowls, I loved seeing the
    STEELERS beat the Sowboys.
    
    Then, both went into the toilet bowl about the same time, and now, both
    are re-emerging(although the sowboys are far superior to the STEELERS
    at this point) and will meet nexted year in the SB.
    
    JaKe
    

    RE- .71

    Dennis, How could you know what calls affected the outcome of the game
    when you said you turned it off and didn't watch the rest of the game. The
    second half was the telling story of the game.

    Of course after watching a full game of the Eagles getting soundly beat by
    the boys I guess I could understand why you would turn it off   :^)

    As far as the league and CBS wanting Dallas to win well that is BS.
    Dallas has been in 13 NFC title games and have lost 7 of them and won
    6. Hardly a preference by the league. And of the 6 appearances in the
    Superbowl they have won 2, lost 3, and have yet to play the 6th. They 
    have deserved every appearance and were competitive in all of them 
    including their losses.

    Do you honestly think the league had a preference when say  Pittsburgh
    and San Francisco went undefeated in the Superbowl? I don't. They never
    lost a Superbowl because they just flat outplayed the opposition. 

    

re .58

In .52 I merely ask a question.  Is that okay?  I guess I could
have read yer intro to see who yer favorite teams were.

In .51, I don't blame the refs for the loss, turnovers and mistakes
kilt the Niners.   But the calls were inconsistant - and I hate
that.

Hope that clears up this bout of confustion.

JD

I don't do archives.   If you can't answer it, then that's life.


JD

Well, maybe it's a rehash, but the first holding call in McIntyre was
definitely holding.  No gripe there.

The call that was highly unusual (at least to me) was the defensive holding
call against the 9ers, when Smith faked the run into the line.

99.9% of the time, the back is going to be tackled.  I mean, if you're
faking the defense out and they take the fake, what are they supposed to 
do?  San Fran bit hard on the fake and tackled him, then got called for
holding.

Markbreit, the ref, upheld the call, so I suppose that there is some
rule which covers it.  But if you never see that called, and all of a
sudden it gets called in the Championship game, it kinda stinks.


With that said, the Cowboys outplayed the 49ers and deserve to go to the
Super Bowl.....


'Saw

	re: Stopping the clock to spot the ball

	Happens all the time. It just usually doesn't make that mcuh
	difference, since it's not usually the last few seconds of the half
	in a championship game. I've noticed it a lot, being a Bills fan,
	since the no huddle tends to point those things out a bit more.

	Roy

    
    You got it, 'Saw.  *One* marginal call.  Hardly evidence that a fix was
    in.  All this nonsense about "disrupting the flow of the game" is 
    exactly that, nonsense.  If a guy gets hauled down in front of the QB, 
    it should be called, whether it "disrupts the flow" or not.  Otherwise 
    there's no sense in making any penalty calls.  It's not the officials'
    job to turn the game into an artistic masterpiece.  Some games just
    aren't, and there's no sense in pretending all the "big" games should 
    be.
    
    glenn
    

Glenn

agreed.  And it should be called all the time, not just sometimes.

it should be called with equal vigor in the first quarter and the
forth quarter, in the first preseason game and in the SUPER BOWL.

JD

Well, I do not think that the defensive holding call on the fake should
have been called.  I think that it was a bad call.

I've got no gripe with the other calls.


And hell, what does it matter.... the Giants are sitting at home anyway ;^)

	Why consider the call bad. Smith had broken through the line and
was in the defensive backfield when the LB/Spy that had responsibilty for 
Smith blew his coverage and grabbed him as he passed him going into an open
area. There wasn't another 9er within 10 yards when Smith broke through the
line. It looked to be a designed play and would have made the 1st down or more
if caught

	Who can say what might have happened if the LB had not held Smith. As
it was, Aikman had to throw to a secondary receiver of which all were covered
for an incomplete. 

   	I cannot see how one play out of 80 can make or break the entire game
for the 9er's. They got beat because they got outplayed and made to many 
mistakes. 

	Cadzilla

	

>	Who can say what might have happened if the LB had not held Smith. As
>it was, Aikman had to throw to a secondary receiver of which all were covered
>for an incomplete. 

It kept the drive alive and allowed Dallas to score.  That might have 
happened anyway, but the penalty made sure it did.

Personally, I don't care one way or the other, cause as I've said the
Giants are sitting and we have a host of other problems to worry about,
but for an entire season you see teams running play action, and the
rb gets tackled at the line for no call.   All of a sudden in the
championship game it gets called.   That's inconsistent officiating,
and I'm surprised it came on Markbreit's crew -- he is usually one of the
best....


'Saw

Does anyone know who's officiating the Super Bowl?

If Red Cashion did a playoff game already, does that mean he won't do the
Bowl?

'Saw

	Sawman

  I would agree if he had been tackled at line of scrimage, but he had gone past
the line when Romanowski grabbed him. Thats Defensive holding!!

  Cadzilla

>  I would agree if he had been tackled at line of scrimage, but he had gone past
>the line when Romanowski grabbed him. Thats Defensive holding!!

I thought they called it on Pierce Holt.   I might be wrong.


'Saw

The only question I have about the officiating has to do with the
very first call of the game.  The kickoff.  Both teams were lined
up and ready, the Dallas kicker kicked the ball, the San Francisco
return man caught the ball, and then the whistle blew.  The Ref
made them replay because he said they had not yet given them
the ok to go ahead.

This isn't the first time I have seen this.  Seems like it's even
happened during a super bowl, and I think it happened the week
before when Dallas and Philly played.

So, is it likely that the officiating crew purposely waits a bit
to blow the start whistle just to let both teams know who's in
control?  In my opinion, this doesn't effect the outcome in any
possible way, but it does set the tone between the teams and
the officials.  

If it's not done on purpose, maybe it should be (being slow in
that start whistle, that is).  It probably serves to settle both
teams down a bit, and makes the game a bit easier to officiate.
I have seen games where the officials were very picky early in
the game and then got more lax as the game progressed.  And
these were often good games.  And I certainly can
understand an officiating crew wanting to let both teams know
early in the game just how calls will be made so that both
teams know what to expect.  It's kind of like strike zones in
baseball.  Give a big strike zone, or a small one, just keep it
consistent.

Jerry

P.S.  Before anyone misinterprets, I'm not claiming that the officials
gave the go ahead to kick off and then blew it dead.

    The Buffalo Bills will win the Super Bowl. You heard it here first!
    
    Dallas is a fast, young team with a lot of talent. Statistically,
    Dallas and Buffalo match up evenly in offense and defense. However,
    I beleive Buffalo's defense is on a roll. They are experienced, big,
    fast, and right now, playing at the peak of their game. Buffalo's
    defensive ends and linebackers won't give Emmet Smith much room to 
    run, and look for the same defense not to give the golden boy Aikman
    much time to pass. Kelly will undoubtedly be intercepted, but look for
    him to have one of his best passing games ever.
    
    -Jack the Hack 

Hell we both might be wrong, Romanowski was the Smith Spy for most of the game
 
Since the hole he went through was near the Center I expected ole 99 to be
the one they dropped the hanky on!

  Cadzilla

	I appreciate the enthusiasm for my favorite team, but I'd like to
	note that the Buffalo defense is by no means big and not
	particularly fast. 

	Big:

	Bruce Smith weighs about 276, Phil Hansen around 280, and Jeff
	Wright about 280 - not a particularly big defensive line. The LBs
	are about average (~240 lbs, I think), and the DBs are relatively
	short. 

	Fast: 

	Bruce Smith is certainly quick, and Phil Hansen has impressed the
	heck out of me in his pursuit, so I'd say that the DL is fast.
	Bennet, Talley, and Maddox are all fast LBs, but Conlan was
	relatively slow to start and a bit slower after about 47 knee
	surgeries. J.D. WIlliams is a fast DB, as is Henry Jones, but Odomes
	and Jackson are only average, and Kelso's play is all based on
	position, because he's slow.

	That said, the defense has been playing superbly, and I hope it
	continues. I think that the real key will be whether the Bills can
	move the ball against the league's #1 defense, especially on the
	ground.

	Roy

    Well, well, well, how times have changed.  It has been a painful trek
    up the NFL ladder and for the true Cowboy fans it is truly a fantastic
    feeling.  
    
    As far as fair-weather fans, you find them everywhere and in every
    sport.  Many people love to support winners more than they want to support
    teams.  I am sure than the Cowboy bandwagon will start to fill up with 
    fair-weather fans but it will also include those of us who have supported 
    the team through the lean years.  
   
    Consistency in officiating is an oxymoron.  Do Jordan, the Shaq, etc.
    get the same calls as a rookie ?  Why should the home team get certain
    calls just because they are the home team ?  Just because we see
    something on TV one way does not mean that the refs saw the exact same
    thing in the same manner.
    
    Mo' later,
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.  

Re the last few:


On the kickoff thing, I've seen that a couple of times.  I don't know
why that happens.  Perhaps the crowd noise might have something to do
with it, or even the players being so keyed up they go.

I know in rugby the ref will say to each captain in a loud voice,
"are you ready?", and when he receives both answers, he blows the 
whistle.

I don't know why they have the problem in football......


re Romanowski:

I'm kinda partial to him, cause he's a home state boy (he's from a 
couple of towns over from my hometown) and I liked what he said about
them being outplayed -- he was honest about it.....



re Bruce Smith:

He's only 278 or so, but with him it's all muscle.  Compared to
some offensive linemen (and some d-linemen) he's light, but he doesn't
have anywhere near the body fat that the behemoths do.....


'Saw

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (United Press International)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc,clari.sports.top
Subject: Sports Digest
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 16:07:23 PST

NFL:	Walter Payton, the NFL's all-time leading rusher, and Chuck Noll, who
	coached the Pittsburgh Steelers to four Super Bowl championships, are
	among the list of 15 finalists for election this year to the Pro
	Football Hall of Fame. 

	According to a business newspaper in Buffalo, the NFL's best fans are 
	in Denver. Business First ranked NFL fans recently using a formula that 
	accounted for average attendance over the past 10 years, stadium 	
	capacity, team record, difference in attendance between winning and 
	losing seasons, weather, local economic climate and
	cost of attending games. Fans of the Cleveland Browns finished second
	and the New York Giants were third. 

    re: .86, .87
    
    Don't want you to have to work too hard JD.
    
              <<< ALPHAX::PUB$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 73.10009         Honorary Mike JN Junk Note Repository       10009 of 10090
MSBCS::BRYDIE "Nixon in '96!"                         3 lines   6-JAN-1993 15:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
     It wasn't funny. Not even a little bit. Please don't direct any
    more notes to me. I don't want anything to do with you. Seriously.
    

TCM -

I guess a thanks.  Is that what he's referring too.  I forgot all
about that.  I'll have to shed some crocodile tears.  Oh, my life
will be so vacant that the great and wonderful MSBCS::BRYDIE will
ignore me.  Oh woe is me.   How will I live?  I'll simply die,
without the wisdom that he spews forth washing over me.  Oh the
infamy.

boo-hoo

JD

	Re: Refs and the kickoff. It has to do with getting a signal from
the network that they are ready to cover it. If they don't get that signal,
then they are not supposed to kick off...

	Jim M.

I believe that they stop the clock only if the team made a first down and they
have to move the chains. I concur with Saw that it was Pierce Holt and there's
no way Smith was in the defensive secondary, he was behind the line of scrimmage
making it an even worst call. Another bad call on the Johnston TD, I thought
if the defensive lineman made contact on offsides the play was blown dead?
Dallas still probably would have scored but it might explain why the niners
just stood around...

anyways I still hate Dallas and I can't admit that they won fair and square
and I hope the Bills kick the crap out of them.

 mike 

Don't worry about Dallas.

George Bush has delivered the Kiss O' Death and has jumped on the Cowboys
band wagon. Las Vegas will naturally adjust the line ;-).

On another front, Steve Young's agent is going to press San Fran into
trading Young so he can get out of the shadow of Joe Montana. It seems
that Young doesn't like the pressure like expectations of going to the
Super Bowl. It will be interesting to see what SF does for nexted year
because under the new agreement they can protect one franchise player and
match offers against 2 others. You know that Jerry Rice will be one of
these three, fer sure. They will probably only protect one of the QBs and
I can't see them risking getting nothing for EITHER Montana or Young.

TTom

	Well Mike your allowed an opinion also. What I saw on replay had Smith 
past the line of scrimmage were the LB's hang out with a 9er grabbing him. Since
neither one of us can prove it and the ref called it it stands, so what. One
play does not make the whole game. Would you be making the same complaint
if it had been the other way, I doubt it so WTF does it matter anyway.

  Heres to hoping for a exciting stupid bowl no matter who wins.

  Cadzilla

   P.S.  Mike  Here's to your  long and continuous hate of the Cowboys  

        

    
>>I believe that they stop the clock only if the team made a first down and they
>>have to move the chains. I concur with Saw that it was Pierce Holt and there's
    
    The clock only stops for the chains being moved in college football.
    
    JaKe
    

If SF has to protect Rice and two others, I could see someone like the
Giants trying to grab John Taylor.  Now there is a good WR.  (And I think
he's eligible, right?)

'Saw

Is Rice's contract up at the end of the season??

The Crazy Met

    I wouldn't be surprised that the clock is stopped if the refs have to
    take time to spot the ball.  How would you feel if your team couldn't
    get off the last play because the refs were trying to get back the
    football that had been rolled away by a defender or if there was some
    question as to the proper spot.  Moving the chains can be done while
    the play is in action, but you can't play until the ball is in
    position.

    The clock stops if a defender touches the ball, but not for the
    placement from an offensive player. If the ball was rolled away or if
    it was "kicked" by a defensive player, then the clock stops. But, as a
    Cowboy fan would say, it doesn't matter because the Cowboys won.
    
    Many ;*)
    
    Dennis Faust
    

      I thought Rice signed a 4 year contract worth 8-11 mil? Rice is not a
    franchise player IMO.  He's great, but not the team.
    
      When I saw the clock being stopped,  it looked like the down marked
    was being moved, and once that was in place and the proper down was
    shown,  the ref started the clock.
    
      The defensive holding was questionable,  but Smith was past the line
    of scrimmage by 2-3 yards.
    
      I think if there was biasing going on,  you would think that it would
    happen in the SB especially.  The reason why I say that is the SB is
    americas largest watched single event.  Supposedly the SB is getting
    watched less and less do to the NFC always winning,  so if biasing was
    going to happen,  the AFC should win which will keep people atracted to
    the SB,  thus more TV and other $$$$.  Does that make sense?
    
      BTW,  I don't believe biasing is happening in footaball.
    
       Heres to a good SB!!!
    
      Tim

I've seen them stop the clock because the defense is taking its sweet
time getting back across the line.


'Saw

Yabbut I think when they went to running time until the last five minutes of
the half that they could stop it to move the chains? 

Tim, Rice not a franchise player? I strongly diagree with that one. This isn't
a team in the league that wouldn't bid on him. He's the best in the game and he's
not a franchise player???

mike

    Under the new agreement, who defines "franchise player" anyway?

>    Under the new agreement, who defines "franchise player" anyway?

Each team can designate one player that they feel is their franchise
player.

His contract has to be within the top 5% (?) of the other players
at that position, or else be a 20% increase.

He is the franchise player for the length of his contract.


Basically that means each team's GM decides what franchise player is....


hth,
'Saw


PS  I probably messed up some of the details......

I thought the frachise player had to be paid at least the average
of the top 5 at his position.

Mike

>I thought the frachise player had to be paid at least the average
>of the top 5 at his position.

Yeah, that's it.

I was working from an increasingly senile memory.....;^)


'Saw

The franchise player is like the protected player during expansion. The
other teams can't bid for his services.

What's unclear to me is how current contracts come into play. Someone
asked if'n Jerry Rice. For any player under current contract, all this
new stuff doesn't apply until the end of the contract term, at least as I
understand it. That's why a team gets the franchise player clause along
with the "restricted" free agents for the nexted 2 or 3 years.

One other aspect of the agreement is that it settles all current and
pending law suits and the players involved with those suits cannot be
protected either as a franchise player or a restricted free agent.
They're immediately free to negotiate with anyone for a new contract.

TTom

I believe I heard that a team does not need to name a franchise player
either.

Suppose Jerry Rice had a year to go on his contract, and San Fran wanted
to name him their fp.  If they name someone else, perhaps when Rice is
eligible to be fp, he can't be.

So they name no one until Rice is eligible....


Or that's how I figure it....


'aw

      Under the franchise definition a few replies ago,  Rice would be a
    franchise player,  but my definition is a player that the team can't
    win without or close to it.
    
      I think that SF can still win without Rice.
    
    
      Don't get me wrong though,  Rice is great!  But not the TEAM.
    
      Elway is Denver.  Yes it still takes team effort,  but he proved he
    is Denver Broncos when he went out for 4 weeks this past year.  I'm
    sure I'm not the only one who will say this,  but maybe the only one
    that will state it here and will take the abuse that will come with
    it;^).....
    
      Tim

The problem that San Fran has is not with Rice but what they're going to
do about who's playing QB: Montanan or Young.

TTom

    SF's QB is Young. I don't think that thre is much debate about that
    within the team - the fans might be another story.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

                               AFC
                             Offense
        Wide receivers -- Anthony Miller, San Diego; Haywood Jeffires,
Houston.
        Tackles -- Richmond Webb, Miami; Howard Ballard, Buffalo.
        Guards -- Mike Munchak, Houston; Carlton Haselrig, Pittsburgh.
        Centers -- Bruce Matthews, Houston.
        Tight ends -- Keith Jackson, Miami.
        Quarterbacks -- Dan Marino, Miami.
        Running backs -- Barry Foster, Pittsburgh; Thurman Thomas,
Buffalo.
                             Defense
        Ends -- Bruce Smith, Buffalo; Leslie O'Neal, San Diego.
        Tackle -- Cortez Kennedy, Seattle.
        Outside linebackers -- Derrick Thomas, Kansas City; Bryan Cox,
Miami.
        Inside linebackers -- Junior Seau, San Diego; Vince Brown,
New England.
        Cornerbacks -- Rod Woodson, Pittsburgh; Gill Byrd, San Diego.
        Safeties -- Henry Jones, Buffalo; Willie Oliver Miami.
                           Specialists
        Punter -- Montgomery, Houston.
        Kicker -- Stoyanovich, Miami.
        Kick returner -- Clarence Verdin, Indianapolis.
                               NFC
                             Offense
        Wide receiver -- Jerry Rice, San Francisco; Sterling Sharpe,
Green Bay.
        Tackles -- Gary Zimmerman, Minnesota; Rusty Wallace, San Francisco.
        Guards -- Guy McIntyre, San Francisco; Nate Newton, Dallas.
        Centers -- Mark Stepnoski, Dallas.
        Tight ends -- Jay Novacek, Dallas.
        Quarterbacks -- Steve Young, San Francisco.
        Running backs -- Emmitt Smith, Dallas; Barry Sanders, Detroit.
                             Defense
        Ends -- Reggie White, Philadelphia; Chris Doleman, Minnesota.
        Tackles -- Pierce Holt, San Francisco.
        Outside linebackers -- Rickey Jackson, New Orleans; Wilber
Marshall, Washington.
        Inside linebackers -- Sam Mills, New Orleans; Vaughan Johnson,
New Orleans.
        Cornerbacks -- Audray McMillan, Minnesota; Eric Allen, Philadelphia.
        Safeties -- Todd Scott, Minnesota; Brad Edwards, Washington.
                           Specialists
        Punter -- Rich Camarillo, Phoenix.
        Kicker -- Morten Andersen, New Orleans.
        Kick returner -- Johnny Bailey, Phoenix.


    
    

    I'll bet alot of teams wish they had the QB problem SF has.

      Shannon Sharpe is replacing the injured Keith Jackson at Tight end. 
    I thought this was strange, 'cause he plays mostly H-back or Wideout.
    
       Ti
    

    Gee, no Jets on the team. You must have made a mistake, Mac.
    
    JoJ_NOT

>>      <<< Note 9.133 by QUASER::JACKSONTA "Everyone/thing needs a name" >>>

>>      Shannon Sharpe is replacing the injured Keith Jackson at Tight end. 
    
What happend to Jackson?  Did he get hurt in the AFC Championship
game, or is he just pulling a Fran Tarkenton?

Jerry

    
    Hey guys, what time is the kickoff for the SuperBowl?  Not the pregame
    crap, just the kickoff.
    
    Thanks.......Glenn

    6:18 EST...
    
    REK

I hope Carl Lewis doesn't sing the National Anthem!

>    Nope. Garth Brooks is gonna follow in Whitney Houston's footsteps and
>    lip-sync it.


I can deal with Garth Brooks....


As to the lip-syncing, I these cases where they are playing in a 
large arena, I don't necessarily think it's bad.  Sometimes the echo
lag can be really difficult to deal with......


'Saw

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+TM                                                   ----------- 
|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|                     U.S. News                         LIVE WIRE
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+                                                     ----------- 
                    Digital to host students at 1993 Super Bowl 

  When the Dallas Cowboys play the Buffalo Bills in Super Bowl XXVII next 
  Sunday, a special group of spectators will be cheering on the teams.  This 
  year, 50 outstanding students from the 95th Street Preparatory School in Los 
  Angeles will be Digital's guests at the game.

  Digital adopted the school as a community relations project several years 
  ago.  The ongoing relationship with the school involves a variety of mentor 
  programs focused on scholastic excellence. Digital's efforts have included 
  programs designed not only to help students stay in school, but to help them
  excel.

  As the vendor of choice for the NFL and the supplier of all the computer 
  equipment for the league, Digital was allocated 30 ticket packages to the 
  1993 Super Bowl.  After Digital advised the NFL that it would invite 
  students from the 95th Street Preparatory School, the NFL, impressed with 
  Digital's involvement with the school, offered an additional 20 tickets so 
  more could participate in the event. 

  In addition to being special guests of Digital at the Super Bowl, the 
  students will be provided with Digital logo hats and T-shirts, attend 
  several events, and will participate in the halftime show, which stars 
  Michael Jackson. 

  The 1993 Super Bowl will be broadcast on NBC.




                          (Courtesy of U.S. Communications)

Juleigh Rawlings
(714) 261-4520
     								    
     


              DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION SELECTED BY
             NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE AS CHOICE COMPUTER
           PARTNER IN LOS ANGELES YOUTH EDUCATION PROJECT


LOS ANGELES, CA -- January 25, 1993 -- Digital Equipment Corporation 
today announced it has joined the National Football League (NFL) as 
a partner in its Youth Education Town project to be built in south 
central Los Angeles, CA. 
     The youth enrichment project will replace the Watts/Willowbrook 
Youth Education Training center, which was severely damaged during 
the 1992 Los Angeles riots. The goal of the NFL project is to 
provide a "safe haven" where the area's at risk youth can enjoy fun 
recreation and educational tools. 
     Digital, the fastest growing PC vendor in 1992, according to 
Computer Intelligence, a computer industry analyst firm, will 
provide the nonprofit community project with $100,000 in personal 
computers and maintenance. The Digital personal computers will be 
used in the computer classroom, computer library, education 
laboratory, administrative computing department and weight room.
     These personal computer systems will be used to develop basic 
computer skills and allow the students to use them as a learning 
tool. In addition, the computers will be used in the administrative 
areas of the center for inventory purposes and database management. 
A special use of the personal computers will be to track the 
students' physical development.


     In addition to providing personal computers for the center, 
members of Digital's Los Angeles Community Relations Committee will 
volunteer at the center as mentors to the students. 
     This effort by Digital reflects a long history of corporate 
involvement and service in the many communities across the world and 
a desire to improve the quality-of-life in those communities. 
     In the Los Angeles area, Digital continues to work with the 
community to assist students in many areas, including education. 
Digital adopted the Los Angeles 95th street preparatory school 
several years ago and has created a variety of mentor programs 
focused on scholastic excellence. Digital's efforts with the school 
have included programs designed not only to help students stay in 
school, but also to help students excel in school. 
     In the process of selecting Digital as a partner for the NFL 
Youth Education project, the NFL learned of Digital's personal 
involvement with the Los Angeles 95th Street preparatory school. 
Based on the effectiveness of the mentor programs, the NFL has asked 
Digital to host 50 top achievers from the Los Angeles 95th Street 
preparatory school at the 1993 SUPERBOWL. In addition, the students 
have been asked to participate in the Michael Jackson halftime show, 
entitled, "Heal the World."
     Reggie Williams, Director of the NFL Education Youth Town 
Project said, "Together with Digital Equipment Corporation, we are 
proud to be able to assist in these community programs and encourage 
other members of the business community to join Digital in selected 
initiatives through co-participation, collaboration and replication 
of community programs."						    


     Digital Equipment Corporation, headquartered in Maynard, 
Massachusetts, is the leading worldwide supplier of networked 
computer systems, software and services.  Digital pioneered and 
leads the industry in interactive, distributed and multivendor 
computing.  Digital and its business partners deliver the power to 
use the best integrated solutions - from desktop to data center - 
in open information environments.
                               ####

Note to Editors:  Digital is a trademark of Digital Equipment
     		  Corporation.

CORP/93/984



To Distribution List:

<sacrificed to the disk space god of CAM3>

    {found this on the net...}
    
    Help convince NBC to put domestic violence awareness public service
    announcements on during the superbowl!  (talk about reaching a lot of
    your target audience...)
                             
    For political activists, or media watchdogs, or just concerned women,
    here's a quick something you can do to help prevent and stop domestic
    violence.

    Super Bowl Sunday - which this year is January 31, here in southern
    California at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena - is the single worst day for
    domestic violence in the USA.  There is an increase of as much as 40%
    in the volume handled by domestic violence shelters on this day.  

    To try to stem this tide of violence, the Women's Action Coalition
    (WAC) of Los Angeles is supporting the campaign by Fairness and
    Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) to convince NBC (the network carrying the
    game) to carry two Public Service Announcements on domestic violence
    during the Super Bowl this year.  Anna Quindlen of the New York Times
    wrote a fine editorial in the 1/17/93 edition of the Times supporting
    this effort as well.  

    What I am asking of you - and all your friends (please PLEASE
    cross-post this to _any_ lists you can think of) - is to help us with a
    FAX/LETTER blitz on NBC, asking for these PSA's.  Here is a sample
    letter:
    
Dick Ebersol
President, NBC Sports
NBC
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY  10112

Dear Mr. Ebersol:

We (I) support FAIR's request that you air two Public Service Announcements
on domestic violence during the Super Bowl game.  The Super Bowl is one of the
most widely viewed television events of the year; it is also the day, according
to women's shelters, when calls for help increase by as much as 40%.

Your broadcast of the Super Bowl will reach a huge audience.  By your airing
PSAs, NBC will be bringing to a national audience the critical and important
issue of domestic violence.

Sincerely,


To reach NBC by FAX:  212-664-5835.


    You can rephrase or rewrite this letter to your liking, but please FAX
    or write them immediately.

    Thanks for helping - you may save someone's life, or skeletal
    structure, or eyesight.

    NBC will be airing domestic violence awareness public service
    announcements during he SuperBowl.  I think it will be aired during the
    pregame show.
    
    This issue had alot of media attention today.  There was a segment on
    Good Morning America, and WBCN quoted an article from the Herald.

    Oh BOY!!!  WBCN and The Hearld.... A couple of reliable sources
    if I never heard of one....

    REK

    	Once again Lisa Simpson loves her daddy so the Cowboys will
    win and cover.
    
    				/Don

    Well I'm a bit out of my element over here in the NFL topic but
    what the hey.
    
    I am an unDOCUMENTED 26-2 in my lifetime picking the Super Bowl.
    It all started at the Age of 1 when my father put two rattles
    in front of me, one for the AFC and one for the NFC.  I chose the 
    correct rattle and the old man had a new system for picking the game!  
    
    This years game is a gift.  The MEN in charge are begging you to jump
    on America's team the Cowpokes and they are going to make a killing.
    I LOVE the Bills and the 6.5-7.  My guess is it will stay at 6.5
    due to the no push rule on Super bowls.  As an added bonus also jump
    all over the UNDER 44.5-45.  Again the no push rule will be
    in effect.
    
    If your man has all the fun side action here's my GUESS
    
    Who wins the coin toss?  DALLAS
    First field goal? BILLS
    First TD? DALLAS
    Who will score the first TD? Novacek
    
    I.M. Jimbo

/Don and TCM have agreed to the following:

If Dallas fails to cover the spread against the Bills in SB XXVII
/Don will use the following p-name for one week

"LA Lakers - The Best Team Ever"

On the off-chance that Dallas covers 
TCM will use the following p-name for one week

"Certified Member - Larry Bird Jihad"

Both /don and TCM wish to state that they believe the p-names they 
will need to use to be lies, but as honorable men will fulfill the
terms of this "contract".

The Crazy Met (for /Donn)

   <<< Note 9.145 by FDCV07::KING "The Jessinator, Not just a child!!!!!" >>>

>    Oh BOY!!!  WBCN and The Hearld.... A couple of reliable sources
>    if I never heard of one....
>
>    REK
    
    This from one who thinks Hillary is a babe.  
    
    Mark.

    re .147 Jimbo
    
    Jimbo you are 26-2 in SB's this is #27 so you are beginning to sound
    more and more like Stu Feiner and the rest of the guys that suck fools
    in to pay for selections....whats your number I think I might subscribe
    to your service for college hoop,whatever you give I'll go the other
    way and have a nice hefty bank acct  :')  :')  :')
    
    How can you like the under ???  the over is the smart play here and
    then you don't care who wins because its gonna be a shootout.
    
    Tom
    

                    <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< SPORTS >-
================================================================================
Note 9.149             The National Football League (NFL)             149 of 151
METSNY::francus "Mets in '93"                        18 lines  29-JAN-1993 12:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

/Don and TCM have agreed to the following:

If Dallas fails to cover the spread against the Bills in SB XXVII
/Don will use the following p-name for one week

 LA Lakers - The Best Team Ever

On the off-chance that Dallas covers 
TCM will use the following p-name for one week

"Certified Member - Larry Bird Jihad"

Both /don and TCM wish to state that they believe the p-names they 
will need to use to be lies, but as honorable men will fulfill the
terms of this "contract".

The Crazy Met (for /Donn)

    
    re -.147 Mr.Mckay
    
    OK Jimbo, You say Buffalo and I'm all over the COWBOYS....plus the
    0ver.  Want to try your luck on a bucket of wing/dings?? 
    I'll even give you the 7....
    
    The Giants won...Washington pi**ed on them now it Dallas' turn to
    make the final DUMP and Flush....Cowboys 34....Buffalo 14....westy
    

    Taking you on Mr. West is like taking a beer away from /Don or
    Mr. Garry.  Make that giving a beer to /Don or Tom 8*)
    
    Your on.
    
    tiebreaker will be total points I'll go with 38
    
    Jimbo

    
    
    re. -1
    
    I think he yawns at you Jim...I believe westy was treated to wing/dings
    via your wallet after the bowl picks .....right?????
    
    
    And just remember Jim NOBODY takes a beer from me.  :')  :')
    
    Tom

    
    Jimbo I say its an over game, you like the under so you can have 44
    and under I'll take 45 and over for the tie-breaker....why do you
    always pick 38?? Is that so you don't forget your waist size?? o'
    excuse me thats 42....but still an under....
    
    We won't need it as Dallas will CRUSH.....Westy
    

    
    
    Wow westy your being nice to Jim..........he hasn't seen a 42 waist
    since college he's closer to 46   :')
    
    I think you are right about the over it will probably be over by
    halftime,the way Kelly has been passing he'll probably have 4 tds
    by half but only one will be buffalo's.
    
    Tom

Number I got in the grid are not real good

Dallas 4  Buffalo 2 

4 winners based on score at the end of each quarter. OT does not count.

The 4 for Dallas is easy, 2 is a tough number to hit since it
usually requires a safety, missed extra point, stuff like that.
4 field goals is the only sort of easy way.

The Crazy Met

    Tom I think your confusing your own waist size 46 with mine.
    I've been a 32 since high school.......oh OK 34 tops, well
    if I'm feeling heavy 36. 8*)
    
    Jimbo
    

    No confusing that Jim, I am a solid 44 and carry it well,you however
    are a minimum of 40 and it shows  :')  :')  :')
    
    Enough of that lets get back to football.
    
    Tom

    	Karen, I thought they were the respective Zip Codes of the Super
    Bowl participants.
    
    				/Don

    See I told you Buffalo would win, even Tommy is on the right side.
    
    Jimbo

    
    TOM Garry...a 44??? what, the only 44 you can carry well is the 2-cases
    from Rockys minus the 4 beers you drank on the way home....
    
    westy

    Seeing that Michael Jackson is doing the halftime show, they'll have
    arough time getting the players back on the field fer the second half
    and have to postpone the game cause everybody'll be wretching.
    
    Jackson's complexion is now more like that of someone who was
    pronounced dead, and expertly embalmed.
    
    21-21 tie, with no second half till the pro bowl.
    
    JaKe
    

    Luckalo (finally) comes back to reality.
    
    Cowboys 35, Bills 23
    
    
    Joe

    Everyone seems so hyped out on Buffalo....I am going to follow the
    trend of the past 8 years and say Dallas 41  Buffalo 13....I 
    just don't think the AFC can compare with the NFC.
    
    Larry

As much as I hate to see Dallas win I think their offensive line will dominate 
the buffalo defense. The game will appear close because Dallas will run over
the bills with several time consuming drives so that it won't appear to be
the blowout that it is. 

Dallas will totally dominate the 2nd half with Novacek catching 3rd down passes
any time he feels like it for first downs.


Dallas 24 buffalo 10


Metz who would much rather see buffalo win.

    Buffy the Cowgirlymon killer 34
    Cowpokes                     20
    
    REK

    
    The ultimate football game.  I'd say that neither team will score
    and they have to go into the boring kick-off.  Where Dallas will win by
    a score of 5-4 with a trick kick into the upper left corner of the
    goal.  8^)
    
    I think it will be a one point game where the winning team in pinned at
    it's own 2 with 1:32 to go.  A fumble recovered by the left tackle, but 
    resulting in a safety to win the game.
    
    Who cares who wins the game, the Raiders would have kicked both their
    butts 8^)
    
    Marc
    

    
    >>Who cares who wins the game, the Raiders would have kicked both their
    >>butts 8^)
    
    >>Marc
    
    Uh, excuse me Marc, I think you need to move this to the Sports.Joke
    note, and the statement sure is funny.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    I've been to Buffalo,  I've been to Dallas.
    
    Dallas has better wimmin.    :^)
    
    Noo Yawk has higher taxes and colder weather and they are near and dear
    to TcM's heart.
    
    I'm predicting Dallas.  !!!!
    
    Experts are saying ~44 points toital? (<-3 stooges vocabulary)
    
    No way!
    
    I say total points 17 +/-3
    
    I remain,
    soitnly low!
    Kev
    

    On behalf of the Cowboys, who are celebrating their victory, Iwill
    accept all the congratulatory messages from the SPORTS community.
    
    The rout was a marvel to watch, although I must admit, I did feel
    extremely sad for the Bills.  Out of the QB class of '83 I have always
    felt he was the best of the lot.
    
    More later,
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    
    

I think the thing that has to be said (as a Giants fan) is not congrats
to the Sowboys [isfh], but a big pat on the back to the NFC East.

Winning 3 of the last 5, and 5 of the last 7, you've got to look at that
division as the dominating division of the last few years.


Personally, I had hoped to see a better game.  I was not rooting for
anyone, not particularly caring for either team, but by midway into the
second quarter, instead of reading my book during the commercials, 
I was reading during the game, and waiting for the commercials.  8^)


Those Bills players must be TOTALLY dejected today.  Wonder what major
shakeups will take place in that organization....


'Saw

Lost amidst the Super Bowl Shuffle:


	Five new folks were inducted to the Hall of Fame:

		Bill Walsh
		Dan Fouts
		Walter Payton
		Larry Little

	and one other coach whose name escapes me.


Jackie Smith (former Cardinal and Cowboy TE) was on the ballot but was
not elected....



'Saw

    Hope JaKe doesn't come looking for you 'Saw...
    

>    Hope JaKe doesn't come looking for you 'Saw...


That's it, Chuck Noll....Sheesh, how could I have forgotten Chuck Noll?

Oh, I know, I was so busy remember what Jake owes me for beer 8^)


'Saw    

    I thought Dallas would win, but wanted Buffalo.  
    
    Leon Lett's my new hero... nice TD run.. NOT...
    
    SB XXVIII:  Philly 76, Buffalo 3?
    SB XXXIX:   Phoenix 84, Buffalo 2?
    

    
    Oh yeah, Dallas didn't do any face-mask grabbing either, right?
    
    NOT!
    
    I remain,
    seeing at leasst 3 without my spec's on!
    Kev
    

    
    	Anybody want to try and explain to me how the coach/player
    	talent level is so totally lopsided in favor of the NFC?
    
    	This is getting ridiculous........
    
    Claybroon

>    	Anybody want to try and explain to me how the coach/player
>    	talent level is so totally lopsided in favor of the NFC?
>    
>    	This is getting ridiculous........
    
I may be WAY off base, but I seriously think it's the defenses.  I think
that the NFC defenses are better, and I do believe that defense wins
championships....


Plus, no matter how good your players are, if you turn it over NINE
times, you ain't gonna win.....


'Saw

    Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch - I'd give my right arm for a
    Buffalo newspaper this morning.  Heh, heh, heh...
    
    I absolutely LOVED this one.  The only bad part was that Dallas didn't
    get another score (or course, they *should* have) to break SF's record
    of 55 points.  
    
    After just about every Super Bowl, people start talking about a
    dynasty, but it's almost a certainty this time.  This team took two
    steps at a time in getting to the top, and IMO there will be at least 2
    more Vince Lombardi trophies in Dallas over the next 4 years.
    
    I couldn't be happier for JJ.
    
    The Jordan-Bird commercial was hilarious.
    
    
    
    Joe
    
    

Early on I actually thought that Buffalo was going to win.  They were working
their defensive scheme really well, and it was giving their linebackers some
really good shots at the QB and RBs.  The problem was that the offense didn't
control the ball.  The key to the defense was the linebackers getting openings
and using their speed to get to them.  With the D on the field so much, they 
couldn't keep the pace up, and were tired by the second quarter.

As for Dallas' part, their outside linebackers and defensive backs were reading
the plays really well, especially the runs.  Every  tackle on the running plays 
seemed to have an outside backer and d-back in on it.

And of course the biggest factor was turnovers.  How a team could make it to 
the Supe, and make so many mistakes, I'll never know.

That guy Lett is a jerk, and didn't deserve the TD.  You simply DON'T celebrate
until you are in the zone.

Po' po' Buffalo - three in a row.

=Bob=

BTW - does anyone have the score by quarter (for my block pool, ya know)

    Kelly, Levy, Bruce Smith and Reich sip. Throw OJ in there.
    
    Dallas was great, but let's be careful about an annointment. 
    
    MikeL
    
    Oh did I say that Michael Jackson sips. Androgynous (sp) crotch grabber
    wannabee.
    
    Thermal Thomas sips too.
    

    
    Troy Aikman is God!  Not that he had to be after halftime, but he was,
    both before and after.  After that it was time for Emmitt Smith to take 
    over in cleanup duty, making the Bills' defense with Will McDonough's
    "best linebacking crew ever" (ha!) look very bad indeed.  But agreed, 
    not as bad as Buffalo's offense looked.  I think it might be time for 
    Jim Kelly to move on.  He was intensely pressured but the guy just never 
    seems to be able to perform under that pressure, making bad decision 
    after bad decision under duress.
    
    I thought the momentum in the game totally shifted when the gutless
    Marv Levy basically threw his hands up on his second 4th-and-less-than-
    one-yard situation in two drives and said "you guys showed that you're
    too strong for us down here in the trenches, so I'm going to kick the
    field goal to save face" (not to mention that the Kelly rollout on the 
    previous drive's 4th down was a horrible call with even worse execution-- 
    is Buffalo so unconfident in their offensive line that a big guy like 
    Kelly can't stick his head in there to pick up six inches?).  Typical 
    playing not to lose and ending up the loser NFL coaching mentality,
    where the coach justifies the decision by spouting the old cliche "we 
    couldn't come away empty" (3 points, whoopee) and the players' spirits 
    flag accordingly (contrast that decision with Johnson's to go for it on
    4th-and-four from the Buffalo 40 with a *three TD lead* and almost 
    nothing to gain from the move except his players' self-confidence).  
    Before that series of downs it looked like the teams might go in at 
    halftime tied 14-14, but the Buffalo bubble quickly deflated under 
    Marv's coaching bravado and instead it ended up 28-10, game over, when 
    the gun sounded.
    
    glenn
    

re: 2nd 4th and 1, the second was more like 4th and 3.

re: .186 and dynasty

Well as a Mets fan I recommend that you not start shouting dynasty yet. 1986
Mets had a good very young team and never put it all together again. Sure Dallas
might, but strange things can happen, especially with free agency.

Mets in '93
The Crazy Met

      Is the crow cafe busy this morning?

    Hat's off to the Boys'. Great win, huge win, the Bill's will be a few
    years before they dare come back for more of this. Kind of ironic,
    though, in 2 Super Bowls that never happened, I think if the 49er's
    beat the Giants 2 years back, and Dallas this year the Bill's would be
    2-1. Anyways, I think Mike Ditka said it best, that this team has the
    potential for greatness IF they continue as a team. With the new free
    agency not sure what will happen. Dallas has a lot of big play big
    dollar players and not sure if the payroll can keep em all on the same 
    side of the field in years to come.
    
    Bud Bowl fun as always, should have ended with a call from the blimp
    saying "I'll be baaaack"
    
    Mike  

    
> re: 2nd 4th and 1, the second was more like 4th and 3.
    
    You sure about this, TCM?  The ball was at around the three but I 
    thought the Bills could pick up the first at around the two and didn't 
    have to score.  If it truly was 4th-and-3 then I was being too harsh 
    on Levy...
    
    glenn
    

    
    	Well, I count the QB class of '83 as 0-9 in the big game.  Is
    	that right?  I've got Elway 0-3, Kelly 0-3, Eason 0-1, Marino
    	0-1, and Boomer 0-1.....
    
    Claybroon

    I totally agree with Glenn about Marv Levy's/Buffalo's poor 
play selection on the two series inside the 5 yard line.  The first fourth 
down call was a joke.  I also blame Kelley for not changing the play
when he noticed that Dallas brought in an extra DB.  I thought a QB
sneak should be able to gain 1 foot.  The 49ers had two successful
sneaks in the NFC championship game.  Both sneaks came with noone in
their backfield (it was ovbious Young was going to QB sneak).  I realize
Young is a great runner but Kelley is also a big guy and should be able
to pick up the yardage.  The other poor play selection came on the second
series when Buffalo again needed a yard and did a slow developing
misdirection play.  This gave the fast Cowboy D time to penetrate and
throw Buffalo for a loss to the 3 yard line.  Misidrection is fine
outside the 3 but within a yard you have to pound it in or play fake
if the defense is giving it to you.

    Everyone seems to be praising Norton for this excellent play.  Although,
Norton did have a great game and made THE stop on Davis, I thought Haley
was HUGE.  He was constantly in Kelley's face and made an equally large
play causing the fumble that Jones? caught for the TD that gave Dallas 
a 14-7 lead.  This play, IMO, had a major impact because the Bill players
must have felt "Here we go again".

    I didn't think Dallas could AGAIN play a "near-perfect" game but
I was definitely proven wrong.  Maybe this level of play is their norm.




    

Glen,

The Bill's had a 3rd and 1 on the 3 after a off-sides call against Dallas.
They then lost about 2 yards.

On the first 4th and goal I was very surprised to see a pass. If the Bills 
run and score that is ideal, but even if they are stopped or even fumble Dallas
is in awful field position. That pass was a lousy, lousy call.

The Crazy Met

    The only bright spot was the man who coached the "no name Defense" can
    fergit this silliness and start coaching a real football team!!!
    
    Bring dave to 'ole Chi-ca-go...

    
    The AFC won't win another Super Bowl until the Chargers do it.
    In other words, next year!
    
    Live from Charger Central.......Glenn
    

    Was McMahon from the class of '83?

      Very bold aren't ya Glenn?

    The Super Bowl Tourny needs to be an NCAA style seed system...  I don't
    think I really care about NFC/AFC as much as I care about the right
    super bowl.
    
    It might be different if they didn't play so much interconference ball
    as they do today, unlike baseball...

    Heee heeeee heeeee, guess America's Team is back, eh boys? :-)
    
    -- Jim Bob

    How do you get "Kellly (tm) sips" from yesterday?  He missed most of the
    game.  The fumble for a touchdown wasn't completely his fault.  Smith
    fumbled too, just happened that Aikman was behind him.  I'll give the
    INT to Everett was a bad one, but I can't blame this one on Kellly (tm).
    
    Reich had no time to prepare, and the defensive backfield got burnt.
    Turnovers were a key, but they couldn't stop the Novacek or Irvin
    and that was all she wrote...

    Buddy Ryan was named as the defensive coordinator for the Houston
    Oilers.

    
    
    	what I saw.  In other words, MY OPINION!
    
    
    	- The commercials were better than the game!  I was actually
    waiting for the commercial breaks!
    
    		a. Bird/Jordan commercial was a classic
    		b. Shaq/Reebok I'd rate second.
    		c. Lee Jeans had two decent commercials.  Came in 3rd IMO.
    
    	- The game stunk.  The Bills are now up there with the Donks and 
    the Vikes as the biggest flops in the 'Bowl.  I actually turned the
    game off in the 4th to watch a tape a friend brought over about
    Bird's career.
    
    	- Biggest turnaround in the game to me was Beebe dropping that
    sure TD pass in the endzone.  Second biggest play was the really stupid
    play calling by Buffalo inside the 5 the first time.  And here all 
    along, I thought the Steelers has the worst play calling inside the
    5.  I guess they've now been replaced!
    
    	- I can't remember who, but a couple of guys who wrote _99 Ressons
    to Hate the Dallas Cowboys_ or some such, were praying for a Dallas
    win because in their opinion, "there's a whole generation out there
    that doesn't know why we hate the Cowboys!"  Secondly, a Dallas win
    also guaranteed them another best-seller!
    
    	- Although the AFC has had a tough time of it lately, it was 
    the same only for the NFC during the 70's when the AFC bagged 7 of
    the titles.  Actually, between Buffalo and Denver, they have accounted
    for 6 of the 9 losses!  The AFC shall return, and quite possibly it
    will turn in their favor for a couple of years.
    
    
    bill..g.
    

    re NFC vs. AFC
    
    I don't think the AFC ever dominated the way the NFC now does. 7 in the
    '70's (4 [5?], as you know by an original NFL team), is nothing like
    eight in a row.  Even weith the aging of some of the NFC traditional
    powerhouses, I still think it's a couple years before we can see an AFC
    team that is competitive with what the NFC is putting out on the field. 
    Most of the last few games have been blowouts, further highlighting the
    disparity.
    
    brews 

    Plus you get the argument that part of that was the Steelers and Colts,
    teams from the old NFL...
    

There was a recent article in the Courant talking about the NFC-AFC thing.

Of the last 7 AFC opponents, all ranked fairly high in offense, but mediocre
to poor in defense.   The NFC opponents were just the opposite, ranking
higher in defense than in offense.

The basic premise of the article was that while the AFC could put points
on the board, they weren't very good at stopping others from putting
points on the board.

*IF* I haven't recycled it yet, I'll look for the article and try to
type it in.....


'Saw

    Reich didn't have time to prepare?  He had 2 weeks, not to mention half
    time.  DAllas just dominated,  so no greatest SB comeback for
    Reich.........
    
      Tim

    Count me in as one who thinks Levy's playcalling was crazy.  I thought
    it was a bad decision passing up the FG, forget the actual horrendous
    call.  I know that's easy to say now, but it was early in the game,
    they were only down by 7, and they had more to lose my not making it
    than to gain by getting the tying TD.  
    
    I'm really impressed by the confidence with which the Cowboys play and
    are coached, even though I think JJ can be a little *too* outgoing at 
    times.  The 4th and 4 gamble wasn't too outrageous - chances are a punt
    would've sailed into the end zone and the Bills would've started at the
    20 anyway, a mere 15-yard gain by Dallas.  But the one I question goes
    back to the SF game when he went for it on 4th down with an 11-point
    lead.  With a 10-point lead, it would've been a good gamble, but with a
    chance to almost definitely push the lead to 2 TD's, you can't pass up
    the FG.  Even so, JJ's willing to take the risks and if his team
    doesn't make it, he's confident his defense will stop you and even if
    they don't he's confident that his offense will come right back at ya
    and score again.  And that confidence obviously filters down to his
    players.
    
    I loved it at halftime when Todd Christensen talked about his interview
    with JJ and Todd asked JJ if he reminded his players about Buffalo's
    game with Houston, and JJ responded "We're no Houston."
    
    One of the big plays of the game was when Dallas had the ball and was 
    leading 31-17 and the game was still within reach for the Bills.  The
    Cowboys were around midfield and were starting to give heavy doses of
    Emmitt Smith, apparently just working the clock, but Aikman play-faked
    and threw a beautiful pass to a wide-open Harper that pretty much
    signaled the end for the Bills.  Great call at a perfect time.
    
    
    Joe

RE Reich and being unprepared:

	Reich only took three snaps with the first string squad, 
	and thus, was unprepared.

	Now, who is to BLAM for that I don't know...Levy perhaps....


All I know is that Jim Kellly(tm) and the Billls(tm) are ranking right
up there with the greatest chokers of all time:  Worn Moon(tm) and
Snuffy Smif'.....

>>   <<< Note 9.215 by CAMONE::WAY "Ok off the expressway, thru the window" >>>

>>All I know is that Jim Kellly(tm) and the Billls(tm) are ranking right
>>up there with the greatest chokers of all time:  Worn Moon(tm) and
>>Snuffy Smif'.....

How do you figure that Warren Moon is one of the greatest chokers of
all time.  Sure, he took part in the game that saw Buffalo make up
a 32 point deficit, but he wasn't on the field when they scored
any of their points.  I think you have to give the Oiler defense
credit for that.  Also, he did get them into field goal range late
in the game for an attempt that would have been the difference.  You 
giving him credit for the blown field goal attempt, too?

Jerry

    
    
    	Let's see, in the 70's, Miami won 2, Steelers won 4, and Oakland
    won 1.  Can't remember, but didn't the Colts win in '70?
    
    	Now, I'll agree that the Steelers came from the old NFL but really,
    they were losers big time.  They were the laughing stock for some 40
    years of the NFL.  Buy the time they won it all in '74, I don't think
    anyone was left from the team before Noll came on board in '69 except
    Andy Russell.  Maybe one or two others, but you really can't say that
    just because the Steelers were part of the old NFL that they weren't
    in some way an AFC team.  On the other hand, the same can't be said
    about the Colts.  Other than that, the AFC did dominate the 70's
    big time.  And as someone earlier pointed out, defense was a key in
    just about every win and for sure, all the AFC teams that won in the
    70's had great defenses.
    
    	As for the last 8 won by the NFC, the streak could actually have
    been only 2 since two years ago, the Giants narrowly escaped when
    Buffalo missed that last second field goal by a gnats eyelash.  So,
    that game was not dominated by the NFC.
    
    	I would say though that there have been more blowouts over those
    last 8 games though but it could also be due to the fact that both
    the Giants and the 49'ers were great teams that overmatched their
    opponents, namely the Donks.
    
    	Sports is funny.  I like the system the NFL has right now and I'm
    sure the AFC will return shortly.  Even next year.  To many times,
    folks start this dynasty stuff after a big win and then next year,
    do to overconfidence, injuries, or luck, another team rises above
    the favorite.  Dallas has a good team, but in sports, anything can
    happen.
    
    bill..g.
    

>How do you figure that Warren Moon is one of the greatest chokers of
>all time.  Sure, he took part in the game that saw Buffalo make up
>a 32 point deficit, but he wasn't on the field when they scored
>any of their points.  I think you have to give the Oiler defense
>credit for that.  Also, he did get them into field goal range late
>in the game for an attempt that would have been the difference.  You 
>giving him credit for the blown field goal attempt, too?

Jerry.  Take a trip back through some of the archived versions of SPORTS
for references to Worn Moon(tm) and his failure to get them to the Dance.
In addition check references for things like Inflated Stats from the
R&S vis-a-vis his not being that great a QB etc etc etc....


But, he did toss up the inty when everything was on the line.....


The blown FG was the punters fault -- he was the holder who made up the
most exquisite excuses after the game......


'Saw

    Maybe Parcells will teach the AFC a thing or two about defense over the
    next few years.

>>               <<< Note 9.205 by PATE::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>

>>    Dallas may have controlled Smitha and Talley,but they didn't handle
>>    Buffalo's pass rush very well in the first half.  Blitzing linebackers
>>    kept Aikman under pressure for most of the first half.  

I've been waiting for someone to jump on this, but it looks like it's
going to have to be me.  As I recall, Aikman threw three TD passes in
the first half.  One to Novacek and two to Irvin.  All three were from
about 20 yards out.

I'll agree that Dallas did a better job of handling Buffalo's pass rush
in the second half than they did in the first half, but by midway
through the second quarter they pretty much had things under control.
I recall Troy being rushed into a couple of poor throws (one that almost
got picked off), but I can't remember him even taking a sack (but I
won't swear to it).

The point is that the only way the the Bills could get any kind of
pass rush was to blitz, and this usually left Novacek open.  When
Dallas showed that they could beat the blitz with their short passing
game to Novacek, Johnston and Smith, Buffalo backed off.  When they
did this, their pass rush wasn't a factor.

They also quit playing bump and run on the wide receivers in the latter
parts of the second quarter and in the second half.  Aikman said (in
an interview this morning) that it was because they were successfull
with their short passing game.  You do have to wonder, though, if
Buffalo had stayed with the blizting game and the bump and run, what
Dallas would have done.  

Just my opinion, of course.

Jerry

>>   <<< Note 9.218 by CAMONE::WAY "Ok off the expressway, thru the window" >>>

>>Jerry.  Take a trip back through some of the archived versions of SPORTS
>>for references to Worn Moon(tm) and his failure to get them to the Dance.
>>In addition check references for things like Inflated Stats from the
>>R&S vis-a-vis his not being that great a QB etc etc etc....


>>But, he did toss up the inty when everything was on the line.....

'Saw,

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on what consitutes a
choker.  I remember all of the old arguments about R&S, and inflated
stats, but I don't see how this can have any bearing on Moon being
a choker.  As for him never taking his team to the big game, I'll concede
a little on that.  But it takes more than one player to win it all.
And if you're going to use that as your criteria, there's a lot of good
QBs that you'll have to label as chokers.

As for the interception in overtime against the Bills, I'm still
wondering why pass interference or defensive holding wasn't called.
I didn't get the best view of it, but a Houston reciever was definitely
tackled while the ball was in the air.  I guess the refs just figured
it was uncatchable, or already past the reciever, although it sure
wasn't obvious to me.  Regardless, I figure that played a part in
the interception.

Jerry

re: .220 (Jerry)

My point earlier ties into what you were saying.

The defensive schemes devised by Buffalo were based on the linebackers 
blitzing the passer (you'll find that most NFL defenses blitz someone one
every play).  The openings they were creating called for the linebackers 
to cover a lot of ground.  When the Buffalo offense made their mistakes, it
made the defense stay on the field a long time, and the linebackers got tired
very quickly (hell, most of them were injured coming in).

As far as the bump and run coverage, perhaps it was the short passes, or maybe
the lack of a rush made the d-backs afraid to take chances.

=Bob=

    
    > Count me in as one who thinks Levy's playcalling was crazy.  I thought
    > it was a bad decision passing up the FG, forget the actual horrendous
    > call.  I know that's easy to say now, but it was early in the game,
    > they were only down by 7, and they had more to lose my not making it
    > than to gain by getting the tying TD.  
    
    With a foot to go, Joe?  This is what I mean about AFC football of
    recent years.  Everyone concentrates on the defenses but I think it's 
    at least as much that the AFC offenses are overrated as their defenses 
    are suspect.  If a team doesn't have the offensive line play to pick up
    a foot when they need to, they're not going to win many games when they
    have to go up against a tough defense that isn't going to allow the
    automatic 300+ passing yards per game.  The game must be won at the
    line of scrimmage.  And when you're dominated at the line of scrimmage
    you get debacles like yesterday's game.

    I don't understand what you mean by the Bills had more to lose than to 
    gain by going for it in that situation.  The Bills had 7 points to gain 
    and only 3 to lose, and after they missed they were able to stop the 
    Cowboys and get right back into scoring position.  If your chances 
    are only 50% the percentages say go for the touchdown, and your chances 
    *should be* (if you have intelligent play-calling) much better than 50% 
    from the one-foot line.  The idea is to try to score more points than 
    the other team, not just to stay close and hope you get more such 
    golden opportunities.  In any case, I don't think football players come 
    off the field pumped up when they're unable to convert on three plays 
    inside the five and have to settle for a field goal.  It's almost as
    demoralizing as being stopped.
    
    glenn
    

    re.181
    
    'Saw, How much is the tab????
    
    Re the game
    That moron who ran back the fumble fer an almost TD, only to have Beebe
    knock it away at the lasted moment is an a-hole.  Cain't wait til he
    crosses the line to celebrate, has to hot dog it afore he gits there.
    Hope JJ reamed him good fer it.  What if the game was 24-24 and he did
    that??
    
    Re the commercials
    
    Who won the Bird/Jordan shoot-a-thon??  Loved that one, specially when
    they was on top of the building saying something like, "Off the
    freeway, off the billboard, thru the window.....etc."
    
    MY fave was the Lee Jeans one where the guy sucks the bird outta the
    cage.
    
    Was Dan Reeves acting as honorary coach of the Bills or sumthin'
    yesterday???  They played like a team under his command.
    
    JaKe
    

In reading Glenn's note, I was reminded of something an analyst said
during a game -- "It's easier to pass block than to run block".

It struck me that even with a good running back like Thurman Thomas,
the Bills don't seem to be a very good running team...not at least like
we'd think of some of the powerhouse running of the NFC (Giants, Redskins,
Cowboys, Chicago w/ Payton).

The Bills can pass, as can a lot of the teams in the AFC, but there
aren't any real running powerhouses the caliber of the NFC.   (Well, 
I take that back -- perhaps Pittsburgh and maybe KC).  The rest I think
of as passing teams, or as just plain crappy teams.



re Jake:

	I dunno big guy, you got of lucky, because when I got home
	with all the beer, a big gust of wind came along (something
	the weatherman called a Pittsburgh Clipper) and blew the
	sales slip away out of sight.....8^)


	No one won the Jordan/Bird contest.  The one on top o' the
	building was the lasted one.....


'SAw

    Well 'Saw,
    
    I'd rather owe it too ya than cheat ya out of it.
    
    (good thing ya didn't see me there with the wind tunnel fan)
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

>    (good thing ya didn't see me there with the wind tunnel fan)
    
Did you notice how the wind blew through my crew cut?      

    Twas too dark to see the hair.  (8^)*
    
    Shoulda just paid the beer bill.  The plane ticket and fan rental were
    killer expensive.
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    
    

	FWIW  Ditka was the only one of NBC's colormen to pick Dallas. Of course
with the three Ex-AFC'ers and Will MCDontknow what could you expect.

Cadzilla

    Mebbe they did some type of news on this in a playoff game, and I 
    missed it...
    
    What the heck type of Hel-mutt did the Buffalo safety wear for that
    game.  I seem to remember he hurt his head/neck some time ago, it
    that big thing in relation to an injury.
    
    It looked like it had 1 1/2 inches of foam covering around the entire
    hel-mutt area. 
    
    I thought for sure it would have been mentioned in the game (I left at
    38 - 17) and missed it.
    
    He looked like the SPACEBALLS-Darth-Vandar clone.  Huge hel-mutt.
    
    Wut was the deal?
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    re .225
    
        >>And all three of them came as a result of fantastic field position.
        >>When Dallas had to have a long drive to score, they couldn't do it
        >>(until the second half).
    
    If I'm not mistaken, Dallas had an 80 yard drive to make it
    21-10.  Correct me if I'm wrong.
    
     - Bob

>    I don't understand what you mean by the Bills had more to lose than to 
>    gain by going for it in that situation.  The Bills had 7 points to gain 
>    and only 3 to lose, and after they missed they were able to stop the 
>    Cowboys and get right back into scoring position.  If your chances 
>    are only 50% the percentages say go for the touchdown, and your chances 
>    *should be* (if you have intelligent play-calling) much better than 50% 
>    from the one-foot line.  The idea is to try to score more points than 
>    the other team, not just to stay close and hope you get more such 
>    golden opportunities.  

I just think by getting down there and taking the chance of coming away with
nothing is too demoralizing.  You need to get points on the board when you have
the field position, even if it might only be 3.  

Alot also depends on the particular situation.  If Buffalo was down by 21, they
have to go for it.

It was really a tough call either way, I just would've taken the sure field
goal.  


Joe      

    Kazoo (from the Jetsons) helmet, not Gonzo (from Sesame Street or
    Trapper John) helmet.
    
    FWIW, 3 of 4 guys on ESPN Gameday picked Buffalo too.  But then, 1
    was an AFC player.
    

Buffalo could play that game 200 times and still come up on the short end.
There is no way they were gong to stop Dallas with their defense. Despite what
the experts have said about Buffalo their defense has been marginal (at best)
over the past 2 seasons. Dallas, with it's power running game, short passing
game and decent long ball threat will always beat buffalo. 

Personally I think that the Tight End is the most underrated position in the
game. With a good tight end you open up the offensive possibilities 
exponentially. Add in a running back that can catch as well as run, and an 
offensive line where your young tackle handles the self proclaimed best lineman
in the AFC 1-1 without any problems all game and you have a sure fire blowout.

Buffalo and Levy should have know that they had to do something different on 
offense this game. If I was Levy I would have come out with two situational
packages on offense (a running set and a 3 wideout & TE set) and ran the no
huddle at full speed (1 play every 13 seconds..buffalo usually runs one every 
20-25 seconds) with at least one reciever running a deep fly every play. Don't
give Dallas any chance to set up the situational substitutions on defense or
sub in a defensive back. It probably would have killed their o-linemen though..

Got to do something different than go down in flames for the 3rd straight bowl 
in a row though....

I still don't see any AFc team with a chance at defeating the NFC in the next
two years. San Diego seems to be an up and comer but we'll have to see how they 
do against a 1st place schedule this year. I still think they are 2 years away
from being an NFC style power team with a great defense..

Metz

    Miami Dolphin Running back Bobby Humphreys (sp) was arrested for
    cocaine today....
    
    REK

    (I think Kazoo was on the Flintstones, not the Jetsons)
    
    Now back to you regularly scheduled program...

    How sweet it is! Ya know it kinda makes me want to gloat. But I won't.
    However it does bring to mind  negative thoughts and opinions put in
    SPORTS over the last few years about JJ and the Cowboys. I am only going 
    to mention one...

    I don't remember who it was that said it but it was basically this.

   >> Jimmy Johnson will never make it in the NFL. In fact I say by the end
   >> of 1992 he will be back in the college coaching ranks.

    	This is not quite a quote but basically this is what this person
    said. All I can say is "Head ye to thee Crow Note!"  iffin you know who
    you are! :^)      GIT!!

re the Helmet:
	
	Okay, I stand corrected.  I couldn't really remember and gave
	it my bested guess.


Now:


I think the question begging to be asked is what are the Bills to do?

Do you think there should be some shakeup in the team?  I mean, they
are playing well enough to win the AFC Championship, and according to
most commentary I've heard, chances are that they will do it again, as
no one else has a clear shot to beat them.

But they are not playing well enough to stack up against the NFC (well
the NFC East let's say).

Does the team get shaken up, perhaps a couple of trades are made?


Opinions?  Comments?


'Saw

    
    Question:
    
    "How many Buffalllo Billls does it take to change a flat tire?"
    
    Answer:
    
    
    
    
    One, unless of course it's a blow-out, then the whole team shows up!
    
    
    
    ta boom!
    
    I remain,
    ahead of da pack on BB jokes, no?
    Kev
    

	PASADENA, Calif. (UPI) -- What is it about Super Bowls that turn the
	Buffalo Bills from a proud group of perennial conference champions into
	a band of bumblers?
	The Bills did it again Sunday, losing 52-17 to the Dallas Cowboys and
	setting NFL Super Bowl records for futility. The biggest one, of course,
	was losing their third straight. The other embarrassment was a Super
	Bowl-record nine turnovers.
	``We knew we were going to make history one way or another,'' Buffalo
	defense end Bruce Smith said. ``We just didn't want it to hapen this
	way. This is something we'll have to live with one day from now, in the
	offseason and the rest of our lives.''
	From now on, no one will think of the Bills as being named after
	those big, furry animals with the horns. BILLS has become an acronym for
	Boy, I Love Losing Super Bowls.
	The losses keep getting worse, going from a 1-point loss from the New
	York Giants to a 13-point drubbing by the Washington Redskins to
	Sunday's humiliation.
	``You always ask, 'Why, why do we deserve to lose the way we did
	today,''' Bills quarterback Jim Kelly asked.
	Why? Because they turned in one of the most sloppiest performances in
	Super Bowl history.
	``We're kind of a give-and-take offense,'' Cowboys tight end Jay
	Novacek said. ``If they're going to give it, we'll take it. Without the
	turnovers, it would've been a different story.''
	``You can't count on them,'' Dallas defensive coordinator Dave
	Wannstedt said of the Buffalo turnovers. ``We got them and took
	advantage.''
	How does a veteran team playing its third straight Super Bowl play so
	badly? This was a team that set an NFL record by overcoming a 32-point
	deficit to defeat Houston in the playoffs and had 10 players selected
	for the Pro Bowl. 
	The Bills tried to convince themselves the third time was a charm,
	but it became a streak.
	``Destiny, that word kind of floated around,'' Bills wide receiver
	Don Beebe said. ``I kind of thought we were going to win this game. The
	way we lost was very disheartening.''
	You can say the Super Bowl showed once again the disparity between
	the NFC and AFC, but the Bills were 4-0 against the NFC this season,
	including victories in San Francisco and New Orleans. That means they
	should have at least given the Cowboys a game on a neutral Rose Bowl
	turf.
	Except for Andre Reed, Buffalo's stars did not come through. Reed
	caught 8 passes for 152 yards, but he was abandoned by his teammates.
	Thurman Thomas, who has led the NFL in total yards a record-four
	straight seasons, was held to 19 yards rushing and 10 receiving. Wide
	receiver James Lofton, heading for the Hall of Fame, was shut out. Bruce
	Smith had one sack and Cornelius Bennett none.
	Kelly, a Pro Bowl quarterback, coughed up three turnovers in a
	quarter and a half.
	``We should've had 47 guys on this football team making plays,''
	Smith said. ``It just didn't happen. Each and every person on our team,
	and I'll start with myself, has to get better. Each and every one of us
	could've played better.''
	Kelly left with a knee injury in the second quarter, but that should
	not have have mattered so much. Backup Frank Reich engineered the
	Houston comeback and led the Bills past Pittsburgh in the second round
	of the playoffs. Reich looked briefly like he would rally Buffalo again,
	driving the Bills to a 21-yard Steve Christie field goal that made it
	14-10 on his first drive. He also found Beebe for a 40-yard TD at the
	end of the third quarter to make it 31-17.
	But even Reich ran out of miracles. He committed three fourth-quarter
	turnovers, including a Thomas Everett interception that set up a Dallas
	touchdown and a fumble Ken Norton returned for a score.
	Kelly wasn't much better. He threw two interceptions and had a fumble
	returned by Jimmie Jones for a touchdown.
	``It was a big disappointment,'' Kelly said, ``especially the way we
	lost.''
	After a rocky start, the Cowboys made few mistakes. Their first punt
	was blocked, putting them behind 7-0, but the Cowboys did not commit a
	turnover until the fourth quarter. Their stars like quarterback Troy
	Aikman, wide receiver Michael Irvin and running back Emmitt Smith,
	sparkled and their role players made impacts.
	As the youngest team in the league, Dallas appears poised to dominate
	the 1990s, like the San Francisco did the 1980s and the Pittsburgh
	Steelers the 1970s.
	As for the Bills, they go down as the kings of Super Bowl futitily,
	surpassing Minnesota and Denver.
	``To be classified as a great team,'' Lofton said, ``you really need
	to win the Super Bowl. I guess we're a real, real good team.''
	And they are filled with real, real broken hearts.


    

A little extra information regarding Dallas not handling Buffalo's
pass rush in the first half.

The stats I just read (posted in the American_Football notes conference)
credits Buffalo with 1 sack, by Bruce Smith, for a 2 yard loss.  I remember
Bruce hitting Emmitt in the backfield in the 3rd quarter, and forcing
a fumble (recovered by Troy), but don't know if that's the sack.  Perhaps
someone can fill in the blanks.

Also, does anyone have the figures on hurries and knockdowns?  I can
recall at least one hurry, early in the game, on which Aikman threw
a bad pass, intended for Novacek.  I'm sure that there were others,
but just don't remember.  I also remember Buffalo almost getting an
INT, but it appeared to be a bad throw on Aikman's part rather than
the pressure forcing a bad throw.

Jerry

P.S.  Dallas is credited with 4 sacks, by 4 different players.

    
    	What's the scoop on the relationship between Ken Norton and
    	Jr.?  He completely sidestepped a question concerning their
    	relationship.........
    
    Claybroon

    	That pre-touchdown hotdog move by Lett cost Steve Kenney and
    I over a grand.  All the more reason to hate the Cowboys now that
    I'm through using them to make a little extra cabbage.
    
    				/Don

You guys ought to get off of Lett's back.  He played a good game with
the exception of 2 bonehead plays.  In my opinion, the roughing the
passing call on him early in the game was a lot more important, as
it was anybody's game at that point, and it kept a Buffalo drive
going.  All the blown TD did was effect some bets, and there's probably
as many folks who benefitted from it as not.

The guy is just 2nd or 3rd year, already had a sack, and was making
the play of his career.  The outcome of the game wasn't in doubt, so why 
not celebrate?  It was a stupid thing to do, but given the circumstance,
I can understand why he did it.  I lay odds that JJ didn't come down on him 
too hard, and now he has some training film material.  I'll also lay you odds
that Lett will never hot dog like that again.  Basically, it was a stupid way to
end a good play, and it didn't have any impact on the outcome of the
game.  Why don't you just leave it at that.

Jerry

Because he cost me $45? I had 9 and 7 for a square and he hotdogs food outta
the mouth of my family...

Metz

    Iffin you want to blame somebody why don't you blame bb for being a
    hero and saving that touchdown from becoming a reality. Lett was only
    doing what a hell of a lot of other folks do when they think they are
    all alone going into the endzone. Yes it was a bone haided thing to do
    though. These line folks really don't know how to act when they score a
    touch down and he was just counting his chickens before they hatched is
    all :^)

    Ben 

    The guy moves with the blinding speed of grass growing, so why would he
    assume he was "all alone going into the end zone"????
    
    My grandmother coulda spotted that guy 45 yards and caught him in a
    hunnerd yard dash, and she's been daid for 16 years.
    
    If'n a guy wants to hot dog, that's fine, just get into the end zone
    before starting.  It was showbaoting, pure showboating.  He made
    himself look like the southerly facing end of a northbound horse.
    
    JMHO
    
    JaKe
    

    re -1
    
    I agree on your first point.
    I agree on your second point.
    However, he still could out run you :)
    
    In fact, you belong in the Crow Note for making that rediculus
    prediction a few years back that JJ would be back coaching the college
    ranks by the end of 1992. And for all your notes saying the cowboys
    would never make the super bowl while JJ was coaching. GIT!! 

    
    As a fan of track and field and a lover of races, I LOVED the way bb
    closed up the gap!
    
    The faux celebration was just to add drama - "izzy gonna make it before
    lett makes it?  C'mon dude, move!!!!!"
    
    Slasher, sorry for the misfortune - really.
    
    I remain,
    make no predictions, bet no money!
    Kev
    

    
    >>In fact, you belong in the Crow Note for making that rediculus
    >>prediction a few years back that JJ would be back coaching the college
    >>ranks by the end of 1992. And for all your notes saying the cowboys
    >>would never make the super bowl while JJ was coaching. GIT!! 
    
    I truthfully don't remember making that prediction, and I couldn't find
    anything of the sort in the lasted incarnation of ::SPORTS, but If you
    cain PROVE I made those comments, I'll happily take the trip to the
    crow cafe fer a dose of UNCOOKED crow, with no ketchup OR hot sauce.
                    
    As far as the GIT comment, insert it where the sun don't shine!!
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

     Yea it was interesting to see. Intrestingly enough though right behind
    Lett was another Cowboy who could have blocked bb or at least slowed
    him up a bit but he was looking the wrong way! BB went right on past
    him along the sideline whilst this particular Cowboy stayed gawking
    toward the center of the field.
    
    Ben

    
     This was back in 1989 when they appointed JJ as coach. Maybe it wasn't
    you but I think it was :^)   Anyway, at the time I sort of agreed with
    you seeing as they had just fired TL "the only haid coach the Cowboys have
    ever had" and I didn't know how JJ would be able to turnaround a team
    that was really going down hill at the time. They actually hit bottom
    his first year and I had no real hopes of a SB anytime soon. But look
    what happened.   GIT! :^)    

    I may have seen this reply in the old sports topic "why I hate the
    Cowboys" or something like that. Not sure.

As a man of some size, I can honestly say that smartest thing Lett could
have done was to have gotten his carcass into the end zone before celebrating.

On the other hand, I can imagine where the immaturity of youth might have
caused that "check out what I just did" shuffle from around the 5.


Hats off to Beebe for NOT quitting -- you know he had to be WAY upfield.


Finally, Lett was moving so slow that even *I* could have caught him,
moving at around 2 MisterPotatoHeads.....


8^)


'Saw

    FWIW, Leon Lett is a rookie and not a veteran.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

>    FWIW, Leon Lett is a rookie and not a veteran.
    
Yep, and it was definitely a rookie mistake. 8^)

>>Finally, Lett was moving so slow that even *I* could have caught him,
>>moving at around 2 MisterPotatoHeads.....
    
    'Saw, my daid Grandmother could have caught him, but by accounts I've
    gotten of your "speed", you'd never have caught him.
    
    
    JaKe
    

Subject: Sports Digest
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 93 14:54:42 PST

	Fred Barnett of the Philadelphia Eagles was added to the NFC Pro Bowl
roster as a fifth wide receiver. The addition became necessary when the
AFC could not settle a deadlock between Curtis Duncan and Ernest Givins
of the Houston Oilers for the fourth wide receiver spot. When it was
decided to keep both Duncan and Givins, the NFC squad was allowed to
select another receiver.

----------------------
Subject: Dallas plans welcome home parade after Pro Bowl
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 93 14:33:31 PST

	DALLAS (UPI) -- Hometown fans will have to wait until after the Pro
Bowl to give the world champion Dallas Cowboys a proper welcome home.
	Most of the Cowboys returned late Monday aboard two American Airlines
charter flights, but airport officials closed their arrival to the
public because of security concerns at Dallas-Fort Worth International
Airport.
	City officials, however, plan a ticker-tape parade through downtown
Dallas after Sunday's Pro Bowl game. Several Cowboys stars are going
directly to Hawaii for that game and organizers want them to be part of
the celebration.
	``We'll have confetti all over the place,'' promised Mayor Steve
Bartlett. ``It will look like a blizzard in downtown Dallas.''
    

    	Anvilhaid had Lett on his show yesterday.  Seems like a nice
    guy, but I still hate the Cowboys.
    
    				/Don

    
    It is celebrations like that which make it so easy to hate the Cowboys. 
    I mean, the bad haircuts, being from Texas, America's team, and JJ are
    reason enough, but hte celebrations are sort of an extra little bonus.
    
    brews, who thought they should have outlawed td dancing when Elmo
    Wright retired.

    I don't think JJ will mind Lett's hotdogging.  Afterall, JJ coached at
    Miami.

Wasn't it JJ's Miami team that all dressed fatigues and walked out of
a bbq with Penn State before the Fiesta Bowl of 1987 - for the 1986 season??

The Crazy Met

>     JJ's comment on Lett's faux-pas was, "celebrate AFTER you score
>    not before."


The Amazing thing was how far Beebe had to go to get him, and how short
let had to go to get in.


'Saw

    
> Wasn't it JJ's Miami team that all dressed fatigues and walked out of
> a bbq with Penn State before the Fiesta Bowl of 1987 - for the 1986 season??
    
    Yup.  And Michael Irvin was one of the ringleaders.  The funny thing
    about that game with Penn State is that a couple of no-name, diminutive
    DBs named Ray Isom and Duffy Cobbs knocked the crap out of Irvin to the
    point where he developed the alligator arms and started dropping passes
    in the second half.  Now in the NFL and up against the very best he's
    fearless in his routes across the middle...
    
    glenn
    

In answer to Lee's questions about where Night Train Lane went to school,
he went to

		Western Nebraska C.C.

according to my sources.....


'SAw

    Thanks, 'SAw.
    
    Lee

    The Bills fired their GM.

	NAZZ, I thought of you last night while going through this week's 
TSN.  Their guest columnist was Dick Steinberg and he went on and on about 
how you can't just judge a prospect by his showing at the combine because 
that doesn't measure his *football* ability.  He closed out the column by 
saying how the draft is such an inexact science and he hopes circumstances 
will not cause him to pick a *wrong* player with this year's pick (#3).

				/Don

         The Raiders were the last AFC team to win the Big One, and Imo
    if the Donkeys or Bills represent ( both losers) the AFC, the next team
    to win it will be the last AFC that won it. ( LA RAIDERS)
    
    
      Regards,
    
      MAGNUM

    AFC 23 NFC 20 in OT in the Pro Bowl. AFC scored on a blocked field
    goal to take a 20-13 lead, NFC scored with less than a minute to play
    to tie the game at 20. Didn't see anymore so someone else can fill in
    other details.
    
    Pitchers and catchers report in less than 2 weeks and real sports can
    finally begin again.
    
    The Crazy Met
    
    

    
    Yabbut, I'd say that if'n it was tied @ 20 and then the AFC won by
    three,  my guess is (filling in the details as requested) that somebody
    on the AFC kicked a field goal!
    
    They are still worth 3 points. No?
    
    I remain,
    good at 'rithmetic and specualtions.....
    Kev
    

    not me, I just jumped to conclusions!
    

      I watched most of the 2nd half.  Nothing else worth watching was on. 
    It actually wasn't as bad/boring as most pro-blows.
    
      Tim

re:.281

Yup, after 10:30 there was nothing else worth watching and the Pro-Bowl
provided the right amount of background noise. That it wasn't a bad game
helped.

The Crazy Met

Well Bobby Humphrey was shot in the leg this morning. I sure he was on his way
to the crack dealer to return his bad coke that he didn't use. 

Jeff

    Yea,
    Was shot just above the knee in Alabaster, Alabama. Allegedly he was
    having an argument in his car. Here's a hoot; relatives say that the
    shooting was not serious and would not threaten his career. Jezz, ya
    thionk something else might threaten his career??
    
    MikeL
    

      What a waste!  I was imppressed with is straight forward running, and
    then he held out and got traded and turned into the dolphins #
    reciever, and now the last 2 instances.
    
      Go dry up Bobby,  you can still be a superstar!
    
    
      Tim

    Dick Steinberg = my hero!
    
    Cain't wait until the Jests fire him, so he cain go ruin a third team.
    
    The man lies, lies, lies, but he's a good interview - always has time
    for the press.  
    
    NAZZ

    From the "Things I never thought I'd ever say dept.":
    
    The pro-bowl was kinda interesting.
    
    Bye Iron_Mike, O.T. took away your interview, and your team still lost...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    	Chip, the Semi-Pro Bowl game is on a par with the National Hokey
    League Some Star game...
    
    				/Don

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+TM                                                   ----------- 
|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|                     U.S. News                         LIVE WIRE
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+                                                     ----------- 

            Digital joins NFL in Los Angeles youth education project  

  Digital has joined the National Football League (NFL) as a partner in its 
  Youth Education Town project to be built in south central Los Angeles. 
  The youth enrichment project will replace the Watts/Willowbrook Youth 
  Education Training center, which was severely damaged during the 1992 Los
  Angeles riots.  The goal of the NFL project is to provide a "safe haven" where
  the area's at-risk youth can enjoy fun recreation and educational tools. 

  Digital will provide the nonprofit community project with $100,000 in personal
  computers and maintenance.  The Digital personal computers will be used in the
  computer classroom, computer library, education laboratory, administrative 
  computing department, and weight room.  These personal computer systems will 
  be used to develop basic computer skills and allow the students to use them as
  a learning tool.  In addition, the computers will be used in the 
  administrative areas of the center for inventory purposes and database 
  management. 

  In addition to providing personal computers for the center, members of 
  Digital's Los Angeles Community Relations Committee will volunteer at the 
  center as mentors to the students.  This effort by Digital reflects a long 
  history of corporate involvement and service in the many communities around 
  the world and a desire to improve the quality of life in those communities. 

  In the Los Angeles area, Digital continues to work with the community to 
  assist students in many areas, including education.  Digital adopted the Los
  Angeles 95th street preparatory school several years ago and has created a 
  variety of mentor programs focused on scholastic excellence.  The company's 
  efforts with the school have included programs designed not only to help 
  students stay in school, but also to help students excel in school. 

  In the process of selecting Digital as a partner for the NFL Youth Education 
  project, the NFL learned of Digital's personal involvement with the Los 
  Angeles 95th Street preparatory school.  Reggie Williams, director of the NFL
  Education Youth Town Project says, "Together with Digital Equipment 
  Corporation, we are proud to be able to assist in these community programs 
  and encourage other members of the business community to join Digital in 
  selected initiatives through co-participation, collaboration, and replication
  of community programs." 

    Not that old, Jake.  It was posted in Livewire on Feb. 9.

      I saw that message over a month ago.

    
    
    
    JaKe
    

     Then we should call it  "Olds"    No such thing as Old News :^)
    
    Just like saying Yes no. Either one or the other but not both.

    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Thank GAWD it's Friday 
    
    
    
    
    Ben       

    I dunno MAC, .142 looks just shy of IDENTICAL with .289.  
    
    JaKe
    

    OK, I give.  I didn't check .142 until now.  I thought you guys were
    referring to the first Livewire article I posted about DEC giving their
    SuperBowl tickets to LA kids.  Apparently Needle scooped Livewire.

    Well, hey Mac, I think the only thing you cain do now about the
    sitchy-achion, is set yerself hidden in .289!!!!
    
    
    Many (8^)*'s
    
    JaKe
    

    I heard Joe Gibbs has resigned.  (as in quit, not a contract extension)

    
    Radio reports in NY are that he resigned for health related reasons.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Figured it was that or he was making too much money owning Dale
    Jarrett's car... I guess Pettibon will take over?
    

>    Figured it was that or he was making too much money owning Dale
>    Jarrett's car... I guess Pettibon will take over?

Heard the news conference -- he said itwasn't racing related....


'Saw    

      Hum,  sounds like he will be back in 2-3 years!?  Maybe he just
    wanted to go to a different team;^)  Wouldn't be suprised!
    
      Tim

He's just pullin' a Parcells....

>He's just pullin' a Parcells....

My cut at it is this.  

The guy is 62.  He was tired at the end of the season, and not feeling 100%.

I never realized how much work it was to be a head coach until I read some
stuff on Lombardi, and some stuff on Parcells.  That kind of stress and
long hours has got to take its toll on you.

Now, I remember the interview with Gibbs just after the 500, and he said
that he enjoyed just watching....


Personally, I think that Gibbs has accomplished everything he wanted
to in the NFL (I mean, three Bowls ain't bad) and now wants to relax,
spend time with the family, and have fun with his new, less stressful,
venture, NASCAR.


JMHO,
'Saw

    I saw an interview of Gibbs from the Pits yesterday.  He said it was
    time to retire and spend time with his family.  He has a son playing
    football and wants to see him play.  He didn't rule out the possibility
    of coming back to coaching, but said he wants to spend a couple of
    years away from it.

    re -.2
    
    Gibbs is only 52.
    
                                     Steve J.

    
    > Gibbs is only 52.
    
    'Saw was giving his age in Saban-years.  Human years + 20%.
    
    Jes' teasin', 'Saw...
    
    glenn
    

You, really can't expect to come right and say the team is old and on it's
way out. The owner sucks, I don't want to deal with a QB controversy etc..
He 's getting out before he looses any tarnish on that "Gene-yus" tag he
wears.

maybe Gary Clark threaten to kick his ass if he came back....

|    
|    > Gibbs is only 52.
|    
|    'Saw was giving his age in Saban-years.  Human years + 20%.
|    
|    Jes' teasin', 'Saw...
    
Only tellin' ya what I saw in the paper.  Musta been a typo.....


8^)    

    Musta been the paper's fault.  We all know that 'saw wouldn't
    misinterpret something he read in the paper.  8^)
    
    brews

    	If Gibbs gets a job at NBC we know it's only a matter of time
    before he's coaching again.  Like MikeH said Gibbs could see the
    decline of the 'Skins.  They're paying tons of money to Rypien and
    a few others meaning the salary cap will deplete this team of most of
    their young talent.  Like Parcells the smart coaches know when to
    get out.
    
    				/Don

>    Musta been the paper's fault.  We all know that 'saw wouldn't
>    misinterpret something he read in the paper.  8^)
    
Gee Brews, the only way I could misinterpret 62 or 52 was if I 

	a) didn't have my glasses on

or
	b) was watching your bodacious neighbor while trying
	   to read the paper



8^) 8^) 8^)


'Saw

The Jets signed Ronnie Lott today, and are rumored to be on the
verge of signing Leonard Marshall.

Mike

    'Saw is beginning to report like Tank on WBCN....
    
    REK

>    'Saw is beginning to report like Tank on WBCN....
    
Hey, I can't help it if my sources are not any good.  8^)

But seriously, my paper had him listed as 62.  There was probably a
correction the day after, but I never read that little 1" of column
space where they post that stuff -- too boring.

What can I say!  8^)

    >The Jets signed Ronnie Lott today, and are rumored to be on theverge of
    >signing Leonard Marshall.
    
Why?  Do they think they are that close to a championship that they can 
    couple of has-beens that can win it for them this year?
    
    brewss
    
                                                                      

    	You got to admit Brews that it would be thighshudderin' to see
    the J-E-S-T-S go over the salary cap by signing a couple of washed
    ups and miss out on some real talent nexted year because of it.
    
    				/Don

    Clarinews is reporting that the Jets did indeed sign Leonard Marshall.

>    Clarinews is reporting that the Jets did indeed sign Leonard Marshall.


Yep, they're having a 1pm News Conference today to announce it....


'Saw

>               -< Great news!  It's a two Bounty announcement! >-


Bounty!  The Quicker Picker Upper.....
    

    Pats signed Scott Secules..
    Phoenix signed Gary Clark...
    Bears signed Jim Harbaugh
    Phoenix gets da Supa Bowl in '96...
    

>    Phoenix gets da Supa Bowl in '96...
    
    The triple X!

    ESPN reported that Reggie White would announce on Thursday that he
    was signing with the Jets. Both the Jets and White denied the report.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Is the climate in Phoenix ready to accept anything rated XXX?
    

    	Edlestein said on ESPN lasted night that the 49ers were letting
    Holt go to Atlanta and are going to make a bid on White.  Reggie
    will never see a Super Bowl if he signs with the Jesters.
    
    				/Don

    	Will McDonough seems to think Millen will be traded and Secules
    will be used as cannon fodder until either Bledsoe or Mirer can
    play or the Pats get an offensive line (whichever comes first).
    Pats are getting a bunch of PlanB has beens and want to deal Fryar.
    If I were Parcells I would try to sell Irving on staying because
    he's the kind of guy a young team needs.  All he cares about is
    winning, all the other stuff is secondary to him.  If Millen goes
    it would be the death knell for the cheerleaders.  8^(
    
    				/Don

    Po' Slash,
    No Mrs. Millen to gawk at. 8^). As was stated, mebbe the Pats will need
    5 QB's if the "O" line continues to play like Mike "The Matador"
    Hawkins.
    
    MikeL
    

    	Pats are cheap MikeL, they'll never pay five QBs unless three
    are making minimum wage.  The irony is that excluding a potential
    quarterback draftee, Millen is still the best of the bunch.  Maybe
    Parcells is intimidated by his intelligence.  
    
    				/Don

    Cards need to re-sign Tim McDonald or the Clark signing won't bring
    them much.  Rumor has it that Phoenix and San Francisco have offers on
    the table to Tim.

    
    The Patriots have a master plan.  The reason for so many quarterbacks
    is they are planning to trade straight up two quarterbacks for a
    halfback or perhaps four quarterbacks for a full back.
    
    HTH
    
    Marc
    

You're joking right Slasher? Fryar only cares about winning? Why the heck
can't he catch consistantly then? Fryar cares about Fryar period! Always
has, always will....

mike    

>> Look no further than his dropped pass in the Orange Bowl

What/when was that play??

The Crazy Met

    I hear Jim McMahon was signed by the Vikings.

    Re: .339
    
    Fryar dropped a perfectly thrown touchdown pass in the 82? Orange Bowl
    that would have given an awesome Nebraska team the national
    championship.
    
    					Steve

>>                    <<< Note 9.337 by CSC32::M_MACGREGOR >>>
>>
>>    
>>    The Patriots have a master plan.  The reason for so many quarterbacks
>>    is they are planning to trade straight up two quarterbacks for a
>>    halfback or perhaps four quarterbacks for a full back.
    
If it wuz me, I would trade one quarterback for five nickel backs!

Jerry

    I heard Jim McMahon is a Viking... Green hopes to get 11 games out
    of him...
    

>    I heard Jim McMahon is a Viking... Green hopes to get 11 games out
>    of him...

Did anyone tell Hawk?
    

    	Fryar gets a bad rap in this town.  His only problem the last
    few years is that the other Patriot wide receivers would have a
    hard time making a TopTen college team.  Anybody see the new Pats
    logo?  It sips!  Looks like the "Old Man In the Mountain" on LSD.
    Makes the old logo with the guy squattin' over the football look
    good.  8^(
    
    				/Don

    	Yeah what a sissy logo.  So much for the Parcells image of mainly
    football.  8^(
    
    				/Don

>    	Yeah what a sissy logo.  So much for the Parcells image of mainly
>    football.  8^(
    
Another GREAT logo bites the dust.


'Saw

Yeah Slash and Fryar never did anything to deserve that "bum rap"???

;^)

    McMahon was traded!!!

     To who? For what? Why? When? How? Where?

    You got it right, MikeC.  Fryar went out and earned any bum rap he
    carries.  He had the physical tools; speed, great moves, good hands. 
    Unfortunately, to me, he lacked the one essential thing that is need in
    all sports: concentration.  He'd work at getting open, then turn on a
    burst of speed, only to DROP the damn ball.  Far too many of those type
    of plays in his early years.  
    
    lEe

Reggie "minister of DEFense" White is now a very rich Green bay Packer. 

    	I'm glad God told Reggie what I would have.  Money talks and
    BS walks.
    
    				/Don

    "If Joe Montana comes here, him and Sir Charles are gonna rule
    Phoenix." - Cardinal receiver Gary Clark
    
    Joe paid another surprise visit this afternoon and worked out with the
    Cards.  People around here are getting excited since Phoenix is
    definitely in Joe's top 2 (Kansas City the other).  I might even have
    to start a Cards topic ;-)
    
    MoS(C)

    Joe M. is a has been, and anybody who signs him fer any sizable amount
    of cash is going to be pumping good money down the ol toilet.
    
    Ya heerd it here first
    
    JaKe
    

      Yes and no.  I take it the Cards are scrapping Timm Rosenbah (sp?)?  
    He is injury prone.  Chris Chandler is a back-up.
    
      Look at KC,  they've been looking for a good QB since Len Dawson;^)
    
      Minny, TB, Pats, Seattle, faids, & jets are other teams that need a
    QB, and Joe appearently can still throw.
    
      I agree that the $$$$ may be steep.
    
    
      Tim

    PLAYERS SIGNED OR LOST DUE TO FREE AGENCY - AND LIST OF TRADES (As of
    4/14):
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
                        space = unrestricted free agent
                        r = restricted free agent
                        x = resigned with old team
                        m = matched
                        t = transitional player
                        T = trade
                        L = player lost due to FA
    
    ATLANTA FALCONS
    ---------------
    x- Mike Gann, dl, Atlanta
    t- Pierce Holt, de, San Francisco
       James Geathers, dl, Washington
       Melvin Jenkins, cb, Detroit
    T- DB Vince Clark from Green Bay for 4th round pick in 1993.
    T- S Alton Montgomery from Denver for 1993 3rd & 7th round picks
    
    L- Houston Hoover, ol (Cleveland)
    L- Bill Fralic, ot (Detroit)
    L- John Washington, de (New England)
    L- Wade Wilson, qb (New Orleans)
    
    BUFFALO BILLS
    -------------
    x- Adam Lingner, c, Buffalo
    m- Jeff Wright, dt, Buffalo (San Francisco)
    r- Glen Parker, og, Buffalo
       Billy Brooks, wr, Indianapolis
    
    L- Will Woolford, ot (Indianapolis)
    L- Shane Conlan, lb (LA Rams)
    L- Carlton Bailey, lb (NY Giants)
    
    CHICAGO BEARS
    -------------
    r- Joe Cain, lb, Seattle
    x- Jim Harbough, qb, Chicago
    x- Trace Armstrong, de, Chicago
    x- Steve McMichael, dt, Chicago
    x- Glen Kozlowski, wr, Chicago
       Craig Heyward, fb, New Orleans
    
    L- James Thornton, te (NY Jets)
    
    CINCINNATI BENGALS
    -------------------
       Sheldon White, db, Detroit
    T- 1993 3rd round pick from NY Jets for QB Boomer Esiason
    
    L- Rodney Holman, te (Detroit)
    L- Eric Thomas, cb (NY Jets)
    L- Tim McGee, wr (Washington)
    
    CLEVELAND BROWNS
    ----------------
       Houston Hoover, og, Atlanta
       Reggie Rutland, cb, Minnesota
       Vinny Testaverde, qb, Tampa Bay
       Mark Carrier, wr, Tampa Bay
    
    L- Mark Bavaro, te (Philadelphia)
    L- Mike Tomczak, qb (Pittsburgh)
    
    DALLAS COWBOYS
    --------------
    x- Charles Haley, de, Dallas
    
    L- Kelvin Martin, wr (Seattle)
    
    DENVER BRONCOS
    --------------
       Rod Bernstine, rb, San Diego
       Don Maggs, ot, Houston
       Brian Habib, og, Minnesota
       Robert Delpino, rb, LA Rams
    T- 1993 3rd & 7th round picks from Atlanta for S Alton Montgomery
    T- 1993 3rd round pick from LA Raiders for RB Gaston Green
    
    L- Mark Jackson, wr (NY Giants)
    
    DETROIT LIONS
    -------------
    x- William White, db, Detroit
       Rodney Holman, te, Cincinnati
       David Lutz, og, Kansas City
       Bill Fralic, ot, Atlanta
       Dave Richards, ol, San Diego
    
    L- Melvin Jenkins, cb (Atlanta)
    L- Sheldon White, db (Cincinnati)
    
    GREEN BAY PACKERS
    -----------------
    x- Roland Mitchell, db, Green Bay
    x- James Campen, c, Green Bay
       Reggie White, de, Philadelphia
       Bill Maas, nt, Kansas City
       Harry Galbreath, og, Miami
       Tunch Ilkin, ol, Pittsburgh
       Ervin Randle, lb, Kansas City
       Robert Wilson, fb, Tampa Bay
       Jesse Anderson, te, Tampa Bay
    T- 1993 4th round pick from Atlanta for DB Vince Clark
    T- RB John Stephens from New Engand for 1993 4th round pick
    T- QB Ken O'Brien from NY Jets for 1993 5th round pick
    
    L- Chuck Cecil, s (Phoenix)
    L- Don Majkowski, qb
    
    HOUSTON OILERS
    -------------
    x- Eugene Seale, lb, Houston
    x- Cody Carlson qb, Houston
    
    L- Don Maggs, ot (Denver)
    
    INDIANAPOLIS COLTS
    ------------------
    x- Jessie Hester, wr, Indianapolis
    x- Clarence Verdin, wr, Indianapolis
       Kirk Lowdermilk, c, Minnesota
    t- Will Wolford, ot, Buffalo
    
    L- Billy Brooks, wr (Buffalo)
    
    KANSAS CITY CHIEFS
    ------------------
    r- David Szott, og, Kansas City
    r- JJ Birden, wr, Kansas City
    r- eonard Griffin, de, Kansas City
    
    L- Bill Maas, dt (Geen Bay)
    L- David Lutz, og (Detroit)
    L- Ervin Randle lb (Green Bay)
    
    LOS ANGELES RAIDERS
    -------------------
    x- Vince Evans, qb, LA Raiders
    x- Jeff Gossett, p, LA Raiders
       Jeff Hostetler, qb, NY Giants
       Gerald Perry, ot, LA Rams
    T- RB Gaston Green from Denver for 1993 3rd rond pick
    
    L- Ronnie Lott, s (NY Jets)
    
    LOS ANGELES RAMS
    ----------------
    x- Gerald Robinson, dl, LA Rams
       Irv Eatman, ot, NY Jets
       Fred Stokes, de, Washington
       Shane Conlan, lb, Buffalo
       Henry Rolling, lb, San Dieg
    
    L- Robert Delpino, rb (Denver)
    L- Gerald Perry, ot(LA Rams)
    L- Kevin Greene, lb (Pittsburgh)
    L- Joe Millinichik, og (Seattle)
    
    MIAMI DOLPHINS
    --------------
       Mark Ingram, wr, NY Giants
    T- WR Irving Fryar from New England for 1993 2nd & 1994 3rd round pick
    
    L- Mark Clayton, wr
    L- Harry Galbreath, og (Green Bay)
    L- Scott Secules, qb (New England)
    L- Ferrell Edmunds, te (Seattle)
    
    MINNESOTA VIKINGS
    -----------------
    x- Sean Salisbury, qb, Minnesota
       Jim McMahon, qb, Philadelphia
    
    L- Al Noga, de
    L- Kirk Lowdermik, c (Indianapolis)
    L- Reggie Rutland, cb (Cleveland
    L- Brian Habib, ot (Denver)
    
    NEW ENGLAND PATROITS
    -------------------
       John Washington, de, Atlanta
       Steve Trapilo, ol, New Orleans
       Leon Seals, de, Philadelphia
       Aaron Jones, de, Pittsburgh
       Scott Secules, qb, Miami
    T- 1993 4th round pick from Green Bay for RB John Stephens
    T- 1993 2nd & 1994 3rd round pick from Miami for WR Irving Fyar
    
    L- No one as of 4/14
    
    NEW ORLEANS SAINTS
    ------------------
    x- Les Miller, nt, New Orleans
       Wade Wilson, qb, Atlanta
    
    L- Bobby Hebert, qb
    L- Crig Heyward, fb (Chicago)
    L- Steve Trapilo, ol (New Egland)
    
    NEW YORK GIANTS
    ---------------
    x- Phil Simms, qb, NY Giants
    x- Sean Landeta, p, NY Giants
    x- Lawrence Taylor, lb, NY Giants
       Carlton Bailey, lb, Buffalo
       Mark Jackson, wr, Denver
       Mike Sherrard, wr, San Francisco
    
    L- Jeff Hostetler, qb (LA Raiders)
    L- Mark Ingram, wr (Miami)
    L- Leonard Marshall, dl (NY Jets)
    
    NEW YORK JETS
    -------------
    x- Chris Burkett, wr, NY Jets
    x- Scott Mersereau, dl, NY Jets
    x- Paul Frase, dl, NY Jets
       Ronnie Lott, s, LA Raiders
       Leonard Marshall,dl, NY Giants
       Eric Thomas, db, Cincinnati
       Jame Thornton, te, Chicago
    T- QB Boomer Esiason from Cincinnati for 1993 3rd round pick
    T- 1993 5th round pck from Green Bay for QB Ken O'Brien
    
    L- Irv Eatman, ot (LA Rams)
    
    PHILADELPHIA EAGLES
    -------------------
       Mark Bavaro, te, Cleveland
    
    L- Reggie White, de (Green Bay)
    L- Jim McMahon, qb (Minnesota)
    L- Leon Seals, de (New England)
    L- John Booty, db (Phoenix)
    L- David Archer, qb (CFL)
    
    PHOENIX CARDINALS
    -----------------
    x- Tyrone Stowe, lb, Phoenix
       John Booty, db, Philadelphia
       Gary Clark, wr, Washington
       Chuck Cecl, s, Green Bay
    T- 1993 undisclosed draft pick from ansas City for DB Jay Taylor
    
    L- Tim McDonald, s (San Francisco)
    
    PITTSBURGH STEELERS
    -------------------
       Greg Clark, lb, Seattle
       Kevin Greene, lb, LA Rams
       Mike Tomczak, qb, Cleveland
    m- Neil O'Donnell, qb, Pittsburgh (Tampa Bay)
    
    L- Tunch Ilkin, ot (Green Bay)
    L- Hardy Nickerson, lb (Tampa Bay)
    L- Aaron Jones, de (New England)
    
    SAN DIEGO CHARGERS
    ------------------
       Joe Millinichik, og, LA Rams
       Brian Davis, b, Seattle
    r- Jerrol Williams, lb, Pittsburgh
    
    L- Ro Bernstine, rb (Denver)
    L- David Richards, ol (Detrot)
    L- Henry Rolling, lb (LA Rams)
    
    SAN FRANCISCO 49ers
    -------------------
    x- Bill Romanowski, lb, San Francisco
    x- Steve Bono, qb, San Francisco
       Tim McDonald, s, Phoenix
    
    L- Pierce Holt, dl (Atlanta)
    L- Mike Sherrard, wr (NY Giants)
    
    SEATTLE SEAHAWKS
    ----------------
       Ferrell Edmunds, te, Miami
       Kelvin Martin, wr, Dallas
    x- Trey Junkin, te, Seattle
    
    L- Joe Cain, lb (Chicago)
    L- Greg Clark, lb (Pittsburgh)
    L- rian Davis, db (SaBn Diego)
    
    TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS
    --------------------
       Hardy Nickerson, lb, Pittsburgh   Martin Mayhew, cb, Washington
    m- Tony Mayberry, c, Tampa Bay (New England)
    
    L- Vinny Testaverde, qb (Cleveland)
    L- Mark Carrier, wr (Cleveland)
    L- Robert Wilson, fb (Green Bay)
    L- Jesse Anderson, te (Green Bay)
    
    WASHINGTON REDSKINS
    -------------------
    x- Brad Edwards, db, Washington
    x- Kurt Gouveia, lb, Washington
    x- Danny Copeland, db, Washington
    x- Tim Johnson, dt, Washington
       Tim McGee, wr, Cincinnati
    
    L- Gary Clark, wr (Phoenix)
    L- Martin Mayhew, cb (Tampa Bay)
    L- James Geathers, dl (Atlanta)
    L- Fred Stokes, de (LA Rams)
    
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    		       	          THE END
    
    Carlitos
    

re: .358

Jets just got Esiason who will cost them 2.3 million so I doubt
they would have any interest in Montana.

The Crazy Met

      Good point Mac

    Super Joe may not be washed up.  In his workout here yesterday, he
    overthrew Randall "Thrill" Hill on a bomb pattern.  Hill is one of the
    fastest receivers around the league.
    
    The Cards have offered their 20th pick of the 1st round (they have
    another earlier).  S.F. seems to be agreeable with that, especially
    when K.C. is trying to get him for nothing.
    
    Timm Rosenbach, besides being injury-prone, hasn't decided if he wants 
    to continue playing football for a living.  Phoenix also has Tony Sacca
    (Penn St.) has their current #3 QB.

    
    >>      <<< Note 9.363 by FRETZ::HEISER "Spam & Eggs, Spam, Spam" >>>

    >>Super Joe may not be washed up.  In his workout here yesterday, he
    >>overthrew Randall "Thrill" Hill on a bomb pattern.  Hill is one of the
    >>fastest receivers around the league.
    
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoohhhhhhhh, Super Joe cain "overthrow" a receiver. 
    Guess whoever he plays fer goes to the Bowl and Disneyworld nexted
    year, huh???
    
    
    C'mon, Brister has overthrown Lipps and Stallworth and many others in
    his career and he ain't doin crap now.  Probably be out of a job come
    summer.
    
    Overthrowing is just missed timing, nothing more nothing less.  If ya
    ain't got decent timing, ya ain't goin' no freakin' place.
    
    JaKe
    

    Well Jakey, I think we all know that Joe's got timing...the thing about
    Joe that was questionable was how good that arm is...and overthrowing
    speedy receivers is a good thing. HtH
    
    Carlitos 

    Agreed Carlos.  Timing improves the more he plays.  The strength of his
    arm was the question mark.  Although, his career could be over the next
    time he gets hit.
    
    It's pretty much over now though.  He's picked K.C., being a contender,
    and working with his old coaches helped.  They also upgraded their
    offer from a 3rd round to their 18th pick.  
    
    Mike

    And SF wants "other considerations" whatever the heck that means. So
    far
    no deal.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    	I think SF is crazy if they let Joe go.  I didn't see ole Steve
    	Young take 'em to the promised land last year.  Young is good
    	but it seems, to me anyway, that he gets flustered if it's a
    	tight game.  
    
    	Joe's a winner.........
    
    Claybroon

    Now Debartolo is saying if he goes anywhere, he's going to Phoenix. 
    Should be interesting how this pans out...
    
    Mike

DeBartelo has matched the KC offer sheet and named Montana the starting QB.
What is the deal today I heard he is going to make a decision today ?

Jeff

    Montana decided to go to KC. KC now needs to make an acceptable offer
    to SF. SF is now saying that because of the "special relationship" with
    Montana they will try to accede to his wishes; but they need to do what
    is best for SF in terms of making a deal.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    McDonough was on EeeeeeeeeeEeeeeeeeeeIiiiiiiiii thised morning.
    
    Guess SF wants to trade him to Phoenix for the #20 pick.
    
    They then want to package the #20, their 1st number pick, a 2nd and
    a 3rd to NE for NE's number 1.  Could be interesting...
    

      This saga is getting as ridiculous as the Reggie ordeal.

Would NE go for a deal like that?? by the time they get to pick the
top QB, RB, LB, DE will be gone. Now with free agency these kind of deals
will probably become less and less common.

The Crazy Met

    They need more than a single player... they need depth...
    
    Dale Arnold was blasting Montana for being selfish about this.  Wanting
    to pick a team and not looking out for the best interest of the 49ers.
    Gee, if I were getting traded, I wouldn't exactly be concerned about
    that.  Was he saying the same thing when Irving headed to Miami?
    

    
    > Dale Arnold was blasting Montana for being selfish about this.  Wanting
    > to pick a team and not looking out for the best interest of the 49ers.
    > Gee, if I were getting traded, I wouldn't exactly be concerned about
    > that.  Was he saying the same thing when Irving headed to Miami?
    
    Sure, but Irving Fryar wasn't saying that $3M/year, the starter's
    job and godlike status within the community was "too little too late",
    coming off two years of inactivity where your replacement just won
    the MVP award.  Basically, Kansas City's putting up bigger bucks so 
    Joe's throwing up a smokescreen about his treatment.  I think Joe's act
    with regard to Steve Young all along has been worthy of the Wade Boggs
    Team Play Award.  Amazing what kind of forgiveness winning will bring...   
    
    glenn
    

    Joe Montana was traded to the KC Chiefs tonite.
    
    JaKe
    

    USA Today had an article basically stating that Joe saved 49ers
    embarassment by taking KC job.  Essentially, 49ers were having PR
    problems in their shabby treatment of Joe but Joe behaved with class by
    solving the dilemma and saving face for De B etal.
    
    I essentially agreed with the article.
    
    My opine is that athletes should be able to compete fairly for a job. 
    I cannot fathom the EEI position on this (along with many, many
    others).  If players must have some restrictions on free movement for
    the good of a sport then owners have an ethical responsibility to the
    individual players to not hinder the players career as major league
    baseball did for so many years.
    
    Bill

    	Pats need an impact player on either side of the ball.  They
    should go get one now.  Trading down will only be more evidence
    that they're fixing up the balance sheet to either sell or move
    the team.
    
    				/Don

      So do you think Steve Young will be happy with 9'rs?   He was
    back-up, then starter, then back-up as of last sunday, and now he is
    the starter again.  That was 1 class act of
    ownership/managment/coaching that happened out in Frisco this past week.   
    
      Montana will help the Chiefs,  but not to the extent of what he did
    in 49'r land.  He will not have the offensive line that he did,  and
    one more somewhat of a major injury will do him in,  and the chiefs
    aren't the best pass blockers around,  and I think they lost 1-2
    starting OL to FA.
    
      Montana will probably be a thorn in Denvers side depending on Denvers
    DL.
    
      Tim

    The Cards were rated to have had an uncharacteristically good draft
    day.  I think getting rid of that headcase JJ was a plus.  He only
    plays when he feels like it.
    
    On the other hand, signing Beurlein for megabucks when they could've
    had him for a song (2nd round pick) last summer just leaves you shaking 
    your head.

    
    I also think dealing JJ for the pick was a good idea.  If Hearst is the
    franchise player everyone seems to think he is, JJ would have no PT
    anyway, and would be gone at the end of the year (he'll be a FA).  They
    also made to very good pickups on the OL, that should help them down
    the line.
    
    Waiting for Beurlein is OK.  They got him for nothing but $.  Had they
    made the deal last year, they would have lost a draft pick AND he still
    would have been a FA this year.
    
    If they only had kept MacDonald, I'd be very excited.  I think they'll
    make  a couple more FA moves for DB's.  RB is probably the biggest
    impact position for a rookie to come in and do well, and it seems that
    the Cards may have gotten one of the top RB's out of college in the
    last 5-6 years.  Hopefully he can help turn things around.
    
    brews 

    Brews, thanks for the info.  You obviously were aware of some things I
    wasn't.  You must be excited since you're a fan, are you going to start
    a Cards topic?  
    
    If they only kept McDonald, we'd be looking at some exciting potential. 
    Just when I thought they should sell Colangelo the team, they go and
    pull some decent moves.
    
    Mike

    
    A Cards fan, hmmmm, not sure.  Especially since they beat the Sox in
    '67.  OH, those Cards.  Actually, I'm pleased to see them make some
    smart moves, starting by getting rid of George Boone, who was head of
    personel.  Ackels seems to be making some good moves so far (except for
    MacDonald).
    
    I'll still be a Giants fan first, though.  I still cheered for them
    over the niners, who won 3 sb's in the 7 years I lived there, so I
    don't see that changing.  I like to see the local team do well, as it
    makes going to the games more fun.  
    
    brews

    I guess the NFL will soon announce that New Hampshire will not be
    eligible for any future Super Bowls, as it's legislature rejected a
    bill which would have changed the name of the state's Civil Rights Day
    to MLK Day.
    
    No such announcement is expected from ML Baseball, nor the NBA or NHL,
    but don't plan on seeing any of these leagues put their championship
    games in the Granite State in the near future, either.
    
    Lee

	Ah, there goes our chances for an NFL team!


	billl

Any word on when professional fottball will be coming to Mass?

daryll

    Daryll, is fottball anything like football?  Sounds like a German sport
    to me.
    
    Lee

Lee,

My mistake, what I really meant to say is "You're a weenie".

Hope this clears this up for ewe.

daryll

    Hey Daryll, what do you do with a weenie?  :*)
    
    Lee

    Timm Rosenbach failed to show for mini-camp and hasn't been heard from
    since the end of last season.  The Cards may announce he has retired.
    
    He changed his unlisted number, hasn't returned letters from the team,
    and his agent doesn't seem to know much either.  

What was his injury last year? Did he hurt a hip or something?


Metz

    No, he separated his shoulder and missed 4 games.  Chris Chandler did
    so well, Timm couldn't win his starting job back.  Now they signed
    Beurlein and still have Tony Sacca (Penn St.) on the bench.  They don't
    really need Timm anymore.
    
    Interestingly enough, both Chandler and Beurlein have stated they will
    be the #1 QB in the fall.  Should provide an interesting training camp.
    
    Mike

    
    Timm got hit in the head and lost his cajones.  He announced his
    retirement, giving up 2 yrs of guaranteed salary ($2mil, but whose
    counting?).
    
    brews

    
    Is there a note for the 1993-94 NFL schedule? Specifically the Eagles.
    
    Thanks
    
    Joe

No.  Usually, when someone finds it, they post it in this topic, so this
is the one to watch.


'Saw

    
    Thanx

    You can also check the AMERICAN_FOOTBALL conference.

    
    re. -1
    
    Found it. Perfect.
    
    Thanx
    
    Joe

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football,clari.local.virginia+dc,clari.local.new_jersey,clari.sports.top
Subject: Banks signs with Redskins
Keywords: football, men's professional
Message-ID: <fbn-banksU3uE825pe@clarinet.com>
References: <fbn-banksU3uE515pe@clarinet.com>
X-Supersedes: <fbn-banksU3uE515pe@clarinet.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 17:32:09 PDT
Location: district of columbia, virginia, new jersey
ACategory: sports
Slugword: fbn-banks
Priority: major
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 534/545; Id: z6264; Sel: xxsfp; Adate: 6-14-825ped; Ver: 0/1; V: sked
Approved: clarinews@clarinet.com
Codes: ysfprxx., &sfprdc., &sfprva., &sfprnj.
Lines: 51
 
	ASHBURN, Va. (UPI) -- The Washington Redskins, delivering a blow to
their NFC East rival New York Giants, have signed free agent outside
linebacker Carl Banks, Redskins General Manager Charley Casserly
announced Monday.
	``In Carl Banks, we think we have acquired one of the premier outside
linebackers in the National Football League,'' Casserly said. ``Carl has
always presented us problems since he joined the Giants, and we're glad
to have him on our side with the Redskins.''
	Giants Coach Dan Reeves admitted that if he had to watch Banks leave
the division if he had to leave the Giants after nine years, he would
have rather seen him leave the division.
	``Selfishly, I would have liked to have seen him explore 27 other
teams and not leave the New York Giants,'' Reeves said. ``Realistically,
with talent like that, there was a chance someone would make an offer
like that. I'm happy for Carl and sad that he won't finish his career
with the New York Giants.''
	Casserly has to be relieved that he has some insurance in the event
Wilbur Marshall leaves the Redskins. Disgruntled from the start at the
new free agency system, Marshall objected to being Washington's
franchise player which keeps him from becoming an unrestricted free
agent. The Redskins tried to deal him to Houston but the Oilers' balked
at Washington's demands. Should a trade still go through, Banks provides
a replacement.
	Banks, 31, had been named as a transition player by the Giants,
reserving their right to match any offer he received but the club
recently dropped that designation and signed inside linebacker Michael
Brooks from the Denver Broncos. Banks became an unrestricted free agent
as a result of the Giants' move.
	Reeves said the addition of Brooks did not make Banks expendable.
	``I don't think you take a Pro Bowl inside linebacker and put him
outside, especially having had Michael earlier in his career and putting
him inside,'' said the former Denver coach who moved Brooks as a Bronco
from the outside.
	``We had to make the decision if we were going to keep Carl as a
transition player,'' Reeves put the decision in terms of dollars. ``Now
we've got to find somebody who's going to replace Carl Banks.''
	Corey Miller and Kanavis McGhee are the likely candidates among the
returning Giants but Reeves said he won't look for an answer until
training camp. The Giants currently are holding a mini-camp. Reeves did
not rule out another inside linebacker moving outside.
	New York also had signed free agent Carlton Bailey, who was an inside
linebacker with Buffalo. Giants star outside linebacker Lawrence Taylor
recently re-signed with the club.
	Banks, 6-foot-4 and 235 pounds, was selected by the Giants with the
third overall pick of the 1984 draft out of Michigan State. He played on
two Super Bowl championship teams in New York and earned a Pro Bowl
berth following the 1987 season. In 1987, he recorded a career-high nine
sacks. He has recorded 36 sacks in his 10-year career.
	Banks is the Redskins' fifth free agent signing, joining wide
receiver Tim McGee, defensive lineman Al Noga, linebacker Rick Graf and
tight end Jim Riggs.

There is supposed to be a news conference this morning in Hartford.

Lowell Weicker is supposed to announce plans to build a domed stadium
somewhere in Central Ct (either Hartford's South Meadows, or east of the
river) and to actively pursue getting the Patriots here.

The one thing I know about Weicker is that he wouldn't announce this
unless lots of groundwork had been covered.

If I hear anything more I'll let you know....


'Saw


PS  they also plan on having UCONN play there, moving up to Div I and into
    the Big East football conference....

 What's next in football? You think they'll just let the QB raise their
 hands next to avoid a sack????

 dam owners are ruining the game to protect their investments...

 IMO the new grounding rule SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

 mike

I'm witcha on the new grounding rule. It blows.

In terms of helping the refs, it makes it a little easier. There's less
of a judgement now so long as the ball goes past the line of scrimmage,
as I understand it. 

Hail, they might as well do away with the whole thang.

TTom

    Ok, I'll bite.  
    
    What's the new grounding rule?
    
    Mike

Mike -

I don't have it all, but the new Quarterback rules are such:

1.)  To avoid a sack, a quarterback can:

	a.  Throw the ball away at any time.  Defender caint hit him or they
	get penalized.

	b.  QB can yell "Ollie,Ollie, Ollie-in-free" and can't be touched.

	c.  Defender can only hit the QB after asking "May I"

	d.  QB's can wear red 'magic' slippers, and when rushed, can click
	them three times and chant "There's no place like home".  When they
	do this, they are transported out of harms way, and a little dog
	bites the defenders kneecaps

	

JD

The rule is: That if the QB is out of the pocket, he may at anytime throw
the ball past the line of scrimmage to avoid a sack.......I'm sure though 
that pocket passer will be allowed the sam latitude as the scramblers...

mike

    	Gee, if they had this rule years ago Eason would still be in the
    league.
    
    				/Don

    So would Johnny Unitas, and probably Otto Graham.
    
    Lee

    If we had that rule, Doc might, nah, he'd still be the same QB...
    

Joe Willie Namath?  Most overratedQB ever!!!

JD

    No, that's Bubby Brister...
    

    It seems that rule (Int. grounding) was the most difficult to call with
    the most different interpretations depending on ref, qb, teams,
    cities...  Even instant replay didn't seem to help because rule was
    simple but called for a judgement which was colored by precedent in the
    eyes of the ref or announcer, whatever.
    
    This is similar to the legalization of holding a few years back.
    
    And thru it all the defenses manage to prevail.
    
    Joe Willie doesn't come to mind as overrated.  I would look at qbs on
    excellent teams such as 60s balt.,gb;pitt,dallas.  Jim Kelley strikes
    me as most overrated right now.
    
    but then again I was always a Grogan fan and have the poetry to prove
    it
    
    Bill

    Bradshaw was the most overated, no brainer position... And he proved it.
    If he didn't have stalworth and Swan making he wild throws into
    completions then we would have never heard of him...
    
    REK

Bradshaw, along with the others mentioned, cain't hold a candle to Fran
Tarkenton. Never has someone done less with more than his efforts with
the Vikings teams. One thing you could count on was that his stats would
be good regardless of outcome.

Kelly has to be way up there on the list of actives, however.

TTom

    I remember seeing Tarkenton in Yankee Stadium with the pitiful remnants
    of the Giants in '67 courtesy of my cousin Joe Gergen, then with UPI.
    
    I had migrated south to Jersey prior to service and walked into work
    one monday morning into a giants discussion only to blurt
    
    "Gee, didn't know you folks liked football.  Was looking for someone to
    sit with me on 50 yesterday and had to take my little sister"
    
    Those were hot tickets in those days and tark was amazing

    
    Joe Willie OVERRATED?????
    
    Overrated????  *I* didn't mention anything at all about his rating, I
    was simply commenting that with this new girly-mon rule, IMO he would
    have been able to play a little bit longer.  You JD, sir, are once
    again demonstrating your uncanny propensity for reading into things
    which don't exist!
    
    You probably still think that Lazzie (sp) Viren was a honest - above
    board runner too!
    
    [isfh]
    
    I remain,
    wondering why anybody would migrate *TO* noo Joisey too!
    Kev
    

    C'mon REK, git a grip willya!
    
    So the Steelers basically won 4 Supes despite Bradshaw. Tho not the
    mosted gifted and sometimes he looked awful, the man came through in
    the clutch more often than not. He was a winner plain and simple.
    How 'bout dat pass in the Supe agin the 'Boys when he got knocked out.
    The main was a winner.
    
    MikeL
                                  

MikeL from your defense we could have mistaken Bradshaw as an ND
alum.

The Crazy Met

Considering that Bradshaw knocked ND alumi Terry Hanratty to the bench I think
that was awfully generous of Mike.....

of course if Hanratty had gone to Pookepsie U. he'd have never been drafted...

;^)

Overrated are 1 year wonders like Doug Williams, Timmy Smith and Jay schroeder.
Overrated are Qb's like Bubby Brister who perform well in 1 playoff game.
Overrated are players like Willie Gault who have speed but can never seem to
catch the ball.
Overrated are college players who've never shown anything in the pros like the
Rocket and still get big press and big money.

Overrated are players like Brian Bozworth and that goof from the packers that
use publicity and steroids in college and don't amount to squat in the pros.

Overrated players choke in the big game more than once(john elway, Jim Kelley,
Fran Tarkenton) 


Overrated players don't set new league records (Joe Namath) or  Win 4 super
bowls (terry bradshaw). 

    
    Hanratty was a damn good college QB period. However I do remember him
    spelling Bradshaw on occasion and playing well. Twas a good relief
    pitcher. 
    
    Now the Rocket was/is and always shall be a dynamite returner and
    mediocre receiver. To tell you da troof, I always thought Rocket
    served ND best as a TB in the full house backfield. He could
    hit the holes and was hard to bring down He could handle the short
    swing pass easily. I dunno, I thought he was most dangerous in that
    position. On occasion he could break ya playing flanker, but the man
    could not run a decent pass pattern besides the fly. 
    Has anyone seen any Argo games where the Rocket played TB??
    
    MikeL
    

    > Hanratty was a damn good college QB period. However I do remember him
    > spelling Bradshaw on occasion and playing well. Twas a good relief
    > pitcher. 
    
    Terry Hanratty was/is a Pittsburgh legend.  You won't hear real
    Pittsburghers speaking poorly of ol' Terry Hanratty, nosirree...
    
    glenn
    

    
    >>Has anyone seen any Argo games........
    
    I thought Argo was a cornstarch used to thicken gravy.  Is the Argo
    Games some sort of food fight, complete with clouds of cornstarch
    smoke?
    
    Can you make a rocket out of cornstarch?  Will it fly?  I know you can
    fill a rocket with water, pump it up and it will fly but cornstarch is
    a new one to me.
    
    Wow!  The things you learn about here in sprots....
    
    I remain,
    familiar in the ways of the chef's
    Kev
    

ain't from Pittsburg and I agree that he was a good relief pitcher but a
chance to slam ND mustn't be overlooked....

mike    

  I take issue with all of those who said that Bubby Brister was overrated.

  Bubbles was so bad that he never even showed up on any rated list, let alone
  close to the top.

		Keith

    
    	Yes he did.  He was ranked #1 in number of times a player's
    	parents were shown to the TV audience.
    
    Claybone

    Williams played well in more than one year.  He played really well for
    years in TB...
    

The transition or lack therein from college to pro really isn't much of
a_indicator of overratism. 

    A point often overlooked in the Jets' improbable Super Bowl victory is
    that one of their backs rushed for 125 yards in that game.

Mac -

That Super Bowl belongs to Matt Snell (the REAL MVP), Jim "3 FG's" Turner, and
the defense, which shut down the Colts offense.  Namath was a sidelight during
the game - his best play being handing the ball off.   Hype, big hype, abouit
Joe's "prediction" makes folks think he was the star of the game.

His prediction is overrated also.  What was he going to say "Yeah, we are going
to get killed by the Colts, I predict they will blow us out..."

JD

Keith Byars is now a Miami Dolphin.

re: Jets in SB III

Couldn't agree with you guys more.  Matt Snell was clearly the MVP, but Joe 
Willie got it for the hype.  Snell was unstoppable in that game, and was 
playign against one of the best d-lines in football at the time.

=Bob=

    HAHAHAHA
    
    c'mon boyos, Broadway HypeJoe was the MVP hainds-down. The main
    blabbermoufed the Colts into sneering overconfidence and they
    was beaten before the match. Supa smart outpsyching by Joe Willie.
    Hail, Matt Snell?? Coulda been any one_a_the full backs in them days
    that coulda run through and around that comatose Colts D. HAHAHA.
    Insert Nance, Gilchrist, Hewritt Dixon, even ol' Bob Cappadonna
    into that FB slot and they woulda had a field day...
    
    Open yo' eyes boys!
    
    MikeL
    
    

The Offensive Line probably had a little something to do with Snell
getting all those yards.

The Crazy Met

    clarinews@clarinet.com articles by Jul 15, 1993:

--------
Subject: Cowboys open camp as Tagliabue talks on expansion, realignment
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 15:57:08 PDT
 
	AUSTIN, Texas (UPI) -- NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, on hand for
the opening of the Super Bowl champion Dallas Cowboys' training camp,
said Thursday the establishment of free agency clears the path for the
league to focus on expansion and realignment.
	``I think expansion will be the first step,'' he said, adding that
the league has only begun to ``scratch the surface of our discussion and
evaluation'' on realignment. ``It's going to be a second step sometime
down the road.''
	The NFL will make a decision on two new NFL franchises in October.
When and if there is realignment, Tagliabue said the league would not
want to ``destroy what works. Obviously the Cowboys in the NFC East
works. The entire NFC East works.''
	He said the NFC East -- which consists of Dallas, Washington,
Philadelphia, the New York Giants and Phoenix -- is one of the two most
competitive divisions in the league.
	``So if we're looking around to tinker, we're not going to tinker
with the NFC East,'' with the possible exception of Phoenix.
	Tagliabue discussed the possiblity of a Gulf Coast division,
including Houston, New Orleans, Tampa Bay and Miami, and other
realignments that would create strong regional rivalries.
	He said realignment would focus on divisions that came into being 
``by accident,'' such as the AFC Central, which consists of Houston,
Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Cleveland.
	Tagliabue said the league will get into ``pretty intensive
discussions'' on realignment this fall and may make some decisions at
its annual meeting next March.
	Appearing at a news conference with Cowboys' owner Jerry Jones,
Tagliabue said he came to training camp to help the Super Bowl champions
celebrate last year's achievement.
	``It was one of the most extraordinary turnarounds, one of the most
extraordinary achievements in the history of league sports and sports
generally to have come from were they were four years ago to last year's
extraordinary season,'' he said. ``I'm here to celebrate, have some fun,
share some of the excitment with the entire organization.''
	Quarterback Troy Aikman, the Super Bowl MVP, showed up for camp
despite a back injury he suffered while lifting weights in the off
season.
	``Rehab has gone well for me, and I haven't experienced a lot of
setbacks like some people with back injuries do,'' said Aikman. ``I'm
pushing it as much as I can and trying to do as much as I can in such a
short period of time, yet at the same time trying to be careful and
watch for any signs that I may be doing to much.
	Coach Jimmy Johnson said he was not concerned that his team is coming
into camp with too much confidence following last's year success.
	``If they prepare themselves the way we want them prepared and if
they do the things we ask of them, I'm never concerned about a team
being over-confident,'' he said.
	The Cowboys' first practice session is scheduled for 9:45 a.m.
Friday, and Texas Gov. Ann Richards said she planned to attend.

    
    Why tinker wif the NFC East at all?  Does anyone care that Phoenix
    isn't geographically in the east?  Leave well enough alone.
    
    brews, who has absolutely no ulterior motives for not wanting
    realignment

Also the teams in the AFC Central have a healthy loathing for each other.
The rivalries there are great, why spoil it??

The Crazy Met

    And how about trading Phoenix to the AFC West for Pitt who can return
    to the NFC Beast.

How bout having a girly-mon wuss division and put in all them
dumb run and lose teams like Houston, Deeetroit, etc..

And of course, keep the manly NFC East alone.  

JD

    
    Keep Phoenix in the East.  I want to be able to go to at least one
    Giants game a year. 
    
    brews 

	I'd really hate to see the Steelers not given the opportunity to
	put a woopin' on the two teams from Ohio each year.


	billl

yabbut, Bill, sometimes it works the other way.

The Crazy Met

    But I thought you didn't have any ulterior motives, brews.

Houston is the odd duck in the AFC Central.  Plays in a dome.  Does the Run and
Lose.  Is in Texas.

Cleveland and Pitt are good old rust belt teams.  Cincy is a 'tweener. Caint 
decide if it wants to be a full fledged RunandShootyerselfindafoot or a
manly rust belt type team.  Personally, I'd like to see Pitt and Cleveland
in with da Bears and Green Bay.   Minny and Detroit play in the wuss dome
division withe seachicks, the Oilers, etc...

Jd

   > But I thought you didn't have any ulterior motives, brews.
    
    Mac, as a member of the highly esteemed salesscum fraternity, I take
    acceptance, er, exception to your comment that my motives are nothing
    less than pure as the driven snow (at least as pure as the snow driven
    over by Jake after a couple six-packs, anyway).
    
    brews

Brews, you're a wimp. You start raggin' on JaKe when he's away, lets
see you do it when JaKe is on-line.

The Crazy Met

    
    Where have I ragged on Jake?  By calling him the bastion of taste in
    this notesfile, by saying snow is pure after he has pa[i]ssed over it? 
    I have nothing but the utmost respect for Jake, and am quite sure that
    if he thought if he needed womeone to stick up for him, you are the
    last person he'd want to do it.
    
    8^)
    brews  

	brews gets a 10 on the applause meter!


	billl

      Domes are for sissies!  Artificial turf is for girls that don't want
    to get mud on their joosies!   Put them all in the artificial
    division!!
    
      HTH,
    
      Tim

    Turf is for real men.  Only wimps play on that nice soft natural stuff
    where the worse thing that can happen is a grass stain.  Real men play
    on stuff as hard as blacktop and that can rip flesh off the bone.

    	Hey leave my buddy Brews alone!  Him and I are the only two in here
    that are main enough to stand fast against soccer and all the limp 
    wristed qualities that it stands for!
    
    				/Don

    Aw pshaw dere Slashere,
    
    May Pele kick you upside the haid!
    
    MikeL
    
    PS.
    Ever hit the old Garage (Boston Club) in da early 70's after a Pats 
    game at the Stadium(Harvard)?.
    
    

    That's the old NFC Central. The new one is leaner and meaner.  We'll
    see at LionsManis...  JD talks about the NFC East, but the Giants are
    in the girly rebuilding stage too...

    I'm pretty sure I heard JD say in another note that if they built one a
    them domes for indoor sporting events near him he'd flock to it...
    
    glenn
    

    NFL is girly compared to the real game anyway.  Arena FB - the 50
    yard indoor war... turf, and tackling into boards...
    

	I like this!  Camp has just opened, or is gettin' ready to open for 
	most teams, and the NFL note is jumpin' wif activity.


	billl

      Yeh and ARTIFICIAL turf ends careers sooner than REAL grass.
    
      For re-alignment,  Dallas should be in the west or south division
    seeing how they aren't even close to being an east team.  Same with
    Atlanta being in the west.
    
      Tim

    Brews, I would never even think of trying and defend Jake, he has a way
    with words that I would not even try to emulate. But 'ya really should
    wait with thos statements until he gets back; but then again you
    yourself mention that you are sales-scum, so I shouldn't be too
    surprised.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

No Glenn - 

Don't go a twisting - I said that if Bahstan built a dome like toronto, that for
every die hard Sox fan that said they'd never go to a game in it, that 10
wannabe's would flock to the stadium.

I'd only go if they had a hotel and they let guests put on adult shows for 
the fains!  ;-)

JD

    I thought they were going to 4 4team division's (in 3 years from now)
    so why do all this re alligning now ?  Are they still planning on
    expanding to 32 teams in like 96 ?  If so they should just add 1 exp
    team to each of the 4 team divisions and then wait for the next
    expansion before realigning...
    
    								MaB

    Actually, they plan on having 96 teams by 2032.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    NAZZ

    
    >>And how about trading Phoenix to the AFC West for Pitt who can return
    >>to the NFC Beast.
    
    The ol' rumor mill here in the 'Burgh is that when the NFL expands, and
    re-aligns, the STEELERS WILL return to the NFC.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    >>I have nothing but the utmost respect for Jake, and am quite sure that
    
    
    Sheeeeeeeeeit.  <sniff>  If someone has "respect" fer me, I must be
    slipping these days.
    (8^)
    
    
    >>if he thought if he needed womeone to stick up for him, you are the
                                 ^^^^^^^
    
    The question I got, what's a "womeone"????  I had a snappy response fer
    it, but it'd set MtM's "set hidden" finger on fire he'd have to use it
    so freakin' fast.
    
    JaKe
    

Its news like the following that makes me miss Bob Hunt:

The Philadelphia Eagles signed QB Bubby Brister...

JD

	Yeah that sure was music to my ears to hear that!  No place I'd
	rather see that shmuck go than to one of the "Greater New Yuck
	City Area" teams.  The press will chew him up and spit him out,
	much to the chagrin of "dear old ma".


	billl

Bill -

Phillyis a greater New York team?  The Eagles are HATED, LOATHED, DISPISED,
and did I say HATED, in New York!

JD

	From the point of view of a western PA bigot, Philly nothing more
	than a suburb of the "Big Rotten Apple" just like all of New Joisy.


	hth
	billl

Bill,

The only good thing about New Jersey is that it separates NY from Philadelphia.

The Crazy Met

Indianopolis has signed Don Majkowski to a 1 year deal worth around $1
mil, plus or minus incentives.

The Colts sign Majkowski as insurance while Jeff George holds out. George
apparently wants out of Indianapolis and has refused to show up at camp.
The Colts have fined George $24K (@$4K per day). Jack Trudeau is
currently listed as the starting QB.

TTom

      I thought George had a $2-3 mil/year contract already.  He hasn't
    proven his worth yet.  Plus, wasn't his contract for something like 11
    years?
    
      Tim

    Quick question.
    
    I need documented proof that Ed "Too Tall" Jones played on the
    defensive line for the Cowboys. This is to settle a bet.
    
    Please send any photocopies to Adam Thurgar. Mail Stop SNO1-1/A2.
    
    Many Thanks
    
    Madge

    Picture of a football card good enough?
    

 Seems to me Jeff George and Smellway have alot in common....

mike

Article 6586 of clari.sports.football:
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football,clari.local.pennsylvania
Subject: McMahon says Eagles owner kept Randall playing
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 7:34:07 EDT
Location: pennsylvania
Lines: 18

	PHILADELPHIA (UPI) -- Former Philadelphia Eagle Jim McMahon says it
was team owner Norman Braman's decision to keep starting Randall
Cunningham as quarterback, a published report said Wednesday.
	McMahon, who was traded to Minnesota last March after three seasons
in Philadelphia, told the Philadelphia Daily News that Braman and
Cunningham were ``tight'' and that worked in Cunningham's favor.
	``It was tough because I didn't feel I should be behind him,''
McMahon said. ``But when you and the owner are tight, you're going to
play.''
	McMahon told the Daily News that he was frustrated by the
organization's refusal to give him a fair shot at becoming the starting
quarterback.
	``I don't have anything against (coach) Rich Kotite. He treated me
real well,'' McMahon said. ``But I knew he was not calling the shots.''
	McMahon, a Super Bowl winner, said the Eagles can and will win games
but will never win the ``Big One'' as long as Cunningham is quarterback.
He said Cunningham is not smart enough in crucial situations to win the
Super Bowl.


    

    
    	I can't wait go read MikeC and Mac's replies about how
    	McMahon is just whining like BBJ.  
    
    	Wait a minute.  Do you think they were just chain yanking?
    	Nah.....
    
    Claybone

    Nobody whines like BBJ.

Funny how some things, and some people, never change.


Wonder if and when McMahon will ever grow up?

Lee

who'se BBJ ?

John "D Cowboys" R.

two interpations:

 Big Bad John Elway as in awful bad, or terrible player, all time intercetion
 leader..

 or

 Big Baby John Elway who want play for Colts and BLAMS(tm) DannyBoy the
 collie lover Reeves for all his problems whine whine whine...

 so glad I could help

 mike

sorry folks out of decoders today, you're on your own with the last one....

    What's really scary was this time I understood you.

    What's the deal with Sports Illustrated wasting precious cover space on
    those two crybaby losers?  SI had feature articles inside on both Mo 
    Vaughn and the resurgent Red Sox and Bill Parcells and the emerging
    Patriots, and either story along with about 100 other possibilities
    would have been preferable to BBJ calling Collie another Hitler and
    Collie telling BBJ to grow up.  What a waste over a complete
    non-story...
    
    glenn
    

>    What's the deal with Sports Illustrated wasting precious cover space on
>    those two crybaby losers?  

  if (SI == National_Inquirer_of_sports)
	{
	sell_more_magazines;
	make_more_money;
	}
 

		Keith

    
    Yo glenn,
    
    	You don't want to read stories about a couple of losers?  Why
    	did you enjoy the stories about the Red Sox and the Pathetriots
    	then? :*)
    
    	East coast bias!  East coast bias!
    
    Claybone

    Gary Clark has predicted the Cardinals will go 10-6 this year.  He
    cites their quality defense and improving offense as the main reasons. 
    Youth could be a problem since the team's average age is 25.
    
    I think they won't go anywhere unless they sign Garrison Hearst
    immediately.

    Look out!!! The Phoenix fans are at it again... Howse come the
    Phoenix fans soubd justed liked N_Dume and NS fans?
    Maybe I should kased Jaked?
    
    REKED

Damn, just when I put away my RCASO decoder ring, too!

    Thats what I get for not using decspell.....
    
    REK
    
    

    How many Super Bowls, I mean World Series have they won since 19**?

>>    The Patriots have as many Super Bowl wins as the Broncos.
 >
 >	So why does glenn wanna read about them instead of
 >	the other losers?
    
    Because what they put on the cover was hardly even sports-related.  It
    was a couple of supposed grown men, fitted with bibs and bonnets, 
    slinging applesauce and strained apricots at each other from their 
    highchairs...
    
    glenn
     

      The emerging Patriothetics?  I guess that means they are going for
    2 wins this year!?!?!?!?
    
      The Donks own the lowsy pats team.  Have the pats beat them in the
    last decade?
    
      I  agree making cover on SI says SI wants more $$$ 'cause people will
    read soap opera sports before other stuff.
    
      MikeC,  you act like Elway is the only/biggest whiner.  Jeff George
    Barry Foster, Pepper Johnson, & etc...  Pepper is afraid of moving so
    he sits.  Barry wants Thurmal $$$ that he hasn't proven he deserves. 
    Same goes for George.  If he played good this season then maybe.  Isn't
    George already making around $2.5mil/year?  Elway has never held out of
    camp.  He sticks to his contract.  That does show more class than these
    others!
    
      Tim

      re-1
    
      Don't know if he was traded before camp.  I was living is Phoenix at
    the time,  so good sports reporting wasn't there;-)
    
      As to home field,  agreed with the exception of 2 years ago.  Even
    road games says odds are the pats should eventually win.
    
      The donks play the browns on the road again,  but they win there.
    
      Tim

    Yo,
    I hope I can quote .489 and .490 when SI publishes "Under the tarnished
    Dome" Quel garbage
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Mac,
    
    	In this file, loser is anybody who hasn't won the whole enchilada
    	in the last decade.  I don't agree with that.  What do I know.
    	I'm a Bronco fan.  :*)
    
    Claybone 

    The decoder rings are safe.  Last I checked, there were no Cardinal
    fans in here.

    Well next to the boys there my favorite team in that division :-)
    If Garrison Hurst can do 1/2 of what they want, phoenix could be
    an exciting team to watch....
    								mab

    I said last year they were an improving team.  They had some tough
    losses.  I think they'll win 8 or 9 if Hearst is in the backfield.

    Looks like I got two more years till I'm at loser status...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

What's to holdout for Tim when Blowland throws money at Elway like
he was some kind of Gawd. I recall Blowland ripping up Smellway's
contract and paying him 2 million a year which he hasn't come
close to earning over his entire career never mind just a year....

With the limited amount of years most RB's play I can't blam Foster
for going for it all now. He was the Franchise last year....

Sure Tim others whine and pout but nobody does it better than BBJ....

My fondest memory of the looser will be getting sacked in the endzone
against the Giants in the Superbowl or watching him spike a ball and
whine cause a ref spoted the ball on the 1/2 yard line insteading
of giving the baby a TD...

mike 

    I can't believe the Bengals waived Fulcher.

    I hope the Bears are all over the guy...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    The Bears (along with many other teams) have had some great ex-Sun
    Devil defensive players.  Fulcher would fit right in.
    
    BTW - for you rotis players keeping score:  As of right now, it appears
    Steve Beurlein will be the new starting QB for Phoenix.  Hearst still
    isn't signed.  Neither is Massey and Eric Hill.

    
    Hearst may sign with the Cards this weekend, they are getting close. 
    Fulcher will be in Phoenix on Monday.  Given that Massey iss still not
    in camp, I'd expect the Cards to sign him.
    
    brews

    I still haven't heard anything about them signing Hearst.  They PO'd
    Hill and Massey though.

    Saw that Michael Carter has told the Iggles that he is going to
    retire, which was a surprise to them.  With the loss of White, they
    could be in big trouble onm the front line.
    
    brews

    The Redskins have made a trade wif the VIkings, getting QB Rich Gannon
    fer a song...er I mean a draft pick.
    
    JaKe
    

Giants cut Stephan "The French Fry Maker" Baker yesterday.


(NOTE:  I cannot take credit for the nickname -- a guy in GIANTS coined
that one)



Who won the Bears-Saints game last night.   Like Dan Dierdork(tm) I too
had trouble getting used to Heyword wearing a Bears uni and Muster wearing
a Saints uni....

But I got bored and watched a re-run of "Northern Exposure".....


'Saw

>    Saints 20  Bears 14

Thanks, Karen....


Now I'm glad I watched "Northern Exposure"....


'Saw

    Bears throw a hail mary on the last play and get tackled at the 4...

 If I was Emitt, I'd holdout. Here's the top 4 salaries in the league..

 1. Steve Young     5.35 mil
 2. Smellway        4.775 mil    Blowlin(tm) is certifiable nuts...
 3. Reggie White    4.25 mil
 4. Dan Marino      4.20 mil

 Yup if I was Emitt I'd take the year off.....

     
     How much is Emitt asking for , And What do the Cowboys think he worth.
    
     I say he might just be worth the Cowboys Whole team.
    
    BC.

    I think the biggest contracts were all written before the Salary Cap
    with the exception of RW ? his might have been when the Cap was already
    known.  But GB needed someone on Defense to stop
    Chicago/Detroit/TB/Minn Running Games...Altought Chicago and Minn's
    Running games are a little less talented this year they still needed
    someone and thats the only reason I can figure that RW got the amount
    he did.
    
    Dallas has to think about the Whole team... who's worth more Rison or
    Irvin ??? Is Irvin going to expect as much or more the Rison, if Emmitt
    gets 4M a year you bet your but.  And what About Aikman, is he wort
    more then a QB who cant win the big one (Elway/Kelly) and is he as good
    as Young ???? If you give Emmitt, Aikman and Irvin what they all want
    and are worth in comparison to the top people in there positions that
    could be 1/3 of your overall Cap to 3 Players...
    
    GB will more then likely be in trouble, with Sterling Sharpe, Brett
    Farve and if they get a top name RB what are they going to want for
    money seeing that RW gets 4+ mil a year...
    
    I think teams have to think about the cap NOW and Dallas is doing that.
    Emmitt might be bringing on more trouble then good... If all teams have
    to worry about the cap for next season, if emmitt holds out how many
    teams will have the 4+ Mil a year free under the cap to pay him and
    will want to spend that much on 1 player ????
    
    Well have to wait and see, I hope they can come to a compromise but I
    think 4+ mil for any one player is a little steep (In any sport).
    
    								MaB

    I thought there was only a salary cap for rookies.

The Green Bay Packers cut Ken O'Brien and Alan Pinkett Saturday.

This leaves a starting job clearly in John Stephens' hands, and leaves them
with only one experienced QB, Brett Farve.  He will be backed up by Ty Detmer 
and {mumble-mumble}, a rookie.

Unless they do the re-sign thing with O'Brien (who is no bargain), I think this 
is a mistake.  Detmer is the main reason the Pack lost to the Patriots a 
couple of weeks ago.  He looked terrible.  Lousy arm and happy feet.

=Bob=

 Rookies have a salry cap this year. I believe it's 3.1 million per team
 to sign as many rookies as they see fit. 
  
 Next year a team wide cap goes into effect and it's believed the cap will
 be about 31 million. 

 Dallas has the 3 rd lowest payroll in the league and has the room. It does
 have many free agents coming up next year and after that and claims that to
 give Smith what he wants would jepodarize signing these guys. It's all BS
 they can backload contracts etc...

 the bottom line is they hope playing hardball with Emitt will send a message
 to the rest of the boys....

 mike

    I agree with MAB that Dallas is taking this tough stand because of next
    year's salary cap.  In my mind they are doing the right thing if they
    want to build a yearly contender.  While Emmitt may not like it he can
    always go back to school and finish his basketweaving degree.  
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

According to Usenet, Barry Word a Viking.

Undisclosed draft choice, probably one of the Donks.

daryll

With Okoye on the Dl this means Marty must be expecting a big season from
Harvey Williams and Marcus Allen...

I can't figure this deal out...

Mark Brunell is the 3rd string for Green Bay. While He never showed me much in
his junior season he improved a lot last year (must have been from sitting on
the bench watching Billy-Joe Hobert.) He's looked good in pre-season and will
probably surpass Detmer soon on the depth chart...

Metz

    
    Dallas cuts Hugh Millen
    
    Can they re-sign him fer lower dinero if he clears waivers?
    
    MikeL
    

he's already promised to re-sign with the Cowboys...

I doubt they'll be much claiming off of waivers because if you claim somebody
then they have to be on your 40 man roster and that means you have to cut
another player. 

After the 40 man is determined players can be resigned to fill out the 53 man
roster...

Personally I think it's stupid and confusing but this is the NFL....

What happened to Lisa?

Metz

    
    Thanks Metz,
    
    Lisa is on the Pats PR staff I believe and is gonna be co-hosting
    a show on SC called "Sports Gals" or whatever. Methinks tis the
    NE variety of SC.
    
    Now I don't know about the Hugh-Lisa relationship, twas just trying
    to git vda Slash going. Ya never know, Hugh goes to Dallas, Lisa
    stays here, outta sight outta mind. Mebbe da Slash has a chance!!
    8^)
    
    MikeL
    

    re .538
    
    Slight nit, if you claim somebody on waivers, they have to be put on
    your 47 man roster, not 40 man as stated in .538.
    
    JaKe
    

	Ugh! Hugh Millan  one the few stupid trades JJ and Co. have made. My
Grandmother could read defense better that this clod. And I know she could
hit the out-n-up better .

  Cadzilla2

Hey, didn't Karen Derry say she wanted to run the King of the Hill contest 
thised year?

    Start setting them up Bob...
    

	First we have Clinton the ultimate wishy-washy, AlanAlda, "Feel 
your pain" type asking "Are you ready for some football", then we get Bon 
Jovi doing the intro song for Monday Night Football!  Somewhere Howard 
Cosell was filling up a puke bucket.  UGH!

				/Don

    So whaddya think of the change to the offsides rule where the D is
    given a warning and then subsequently penalized for going through the
    line when someone from the offense moves.  
    
    My only question is, Why?

>    
>    My only question is, Why?
>

Because it's the No Fun League.

We don't want anyone getting hurt.  Pretty soon the QBs can wear 
dresses and heels, and the O-line will be able to play in curlers....

And to be quite honest, I watched a lot of games this weekend, and this
has to be the worst opening day for the Refs that I've seen in years.
They were HORRID.


'Saw

>And to be quite honest, I watched a lot of games this weekend, and this
>has to be the worst opening day for the Refs that I've seen in years.
>They were HORRID.
    
    The local paper quoted the head of officials calling the Cards-Iggles
    head linesman a "rookie head linesman" after missing the Herschel
    fumble.

I promised TCM that I'd do some research on how many time the two
teams from the Super Bowl have met in the following regular season.

I did the research last night but forgot to bring the paper with me.


I'll give you a teaser to hold you over till Monday:  It's only happened
3 or 4 times, and mostly, the Super Bowl champ wins the game.


I'll post the results on Monday....

'Saw

    In 1970 the Vikings crushed the Chiefs in a reversal of the previous
    years' Super Bowl.

>
>    In 1970 the Vikings crushed the Chiefs in a reversal of the previous
>    years' Super Bowl.

Yes, that's one that comes to mind.  


I'll post the list on Monday, or even over the weekend if I can get my
modem working again.....


'Saw

	I seem to recall the Steelers playing the Rams after beating them
	in '79.

	billl

I still forgot to bring in the paper where I wrote down the stuff,
but after yesterday's game, it's happened four times all told.  Twice
(Minnesota and Buffalo) the losers of the Bowl won the rematch.

I'll remember it tomorrow, I promise....

'Saw

A few ramblings:


	o Watched the Raiders and Seattle last night.   Jeff Hostetler
	  is doing things he never did for the Giants.  He's scanning
	  both halves of the field and he's not pulling it down to run
	  right away.  In fact, last night I saw him scramble to get
	  more room to run.

	
	o The Patriots' new uniforms and logo sucks.  The blue shirts
	  have got to go.  Drew Bledsoe is going to be good.


	o Dallas looked lost yesterday.


	o Helluva tackle by one of the Buffalo running backs on an
	  interception by Dallas.  The RB pulled the guy down, but he
	  wasn't to the ground so he reached up with his legs, and 
	  scissored him down -- it looked like a WWF move.


'Saw

    No,  The new logo BLOWS... remember, as A&W said, there's a big
    difference between the two...
    

      The Patriots unis are ugly!!  I thought the Broncos orange was
    "loud" and is questionable, but blue, silver and red?  They don't even
    match!
    
      Tim

>      The Patriots unis are ugly!!  I thought the Broncos orange was
>    "loud" and is questionable, but blue, silver and red?  They don't even
>    match!
    
Some fan or group of fans, paid for one of those "flying signs" that gets
trailed behind an airplane.

It said

	"Bring back red jersies.  The new logo blows"


I couldn't agree more.


I wonder if we had a plane fly around Maynard it'd help to fix our "new
logo"...


'Saw

    Did anyone catch the thigh-shuddering hit Chuck "Heat-Sinking-Missile"
    Cecil laid on Middleton in the Cards-Skins game?  Woah, looked like the
    second coming of Dick Butkus out there.  Helmet was flying and
    everything.  

    It was a spear... should have been 15 yards... you don't hit a guy in
    the chest with the top of your helmet...
    

It was definitely a_illegal hit with the helmet. It was aggressive but it
shoulda been flagged.

Meanwhile, the following teams have been eliminated from the Super Bowl
Derby. No one has won it having lost its first 2 games: 

New England, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Chicago, Tampa Bay,
Atlanta, and

			DALLAS.

TTom

Marino joined the 40K passing club yesterday. He's 4th on the 
list with Sir Francis being #1 with 47K. Who are #2 and #3?

daryll

1 Fran Tarkenton
2 Johnny Unitas (or 3)
3 Dan Fouts (or 2)
4 Dan Marino

Montana should join the 40K group later this year.

    1) Fran Tarkenton	47,003
    2) Dan Fouts	43,040
    3) John Unitas	40,239
    4) Dan Marino	40,024
    
    Looking at these number's Marino should pass Unitas in 2 weeks, only
    because he has next week off :-) and if he can average 216yrds per
    game for the season he'll pass Fouts this season as well.  He doesnt
    look that old, how old is marino ?  I wonder if Montana will play the
    next 3 season (Signed a 3 year deal) and how productive he will be in
    those years.  
    								MaB

    Marino's first season was 1983. So he is probably 33 or 34.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    WOW, thats 4K per year ???? A couple more season like that and he
    has the new record and counting...
    							Mike

    In the first round that year:
    
    Baltimore (remember them :-) picked Elway
    NE picked Eason
    Jets picked O'Brien
    Buffalo took Kelly (signed with USFL, then ended up in Buffalo)
    Miami took Marino (All AFL East teams - amazing!)
    
    Kelly and Elway (apologies to MikeC) have been as effective as Marino
    in helping their team. Eason and O'Brien each had some good years, but
    nothing close to Marino.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

  >  list with Sir Francis being #1 with 47K. Who are #2 and #3?
    
  >  daryll
    
    _SIR_ Francis?  Musta been a typo.  Shoulda been Sorry Frances.
    
    brews

    Didn't O'Brien make the yardage list?
    
    JoJ_NOT

    At the Half, the clevescum Skidmarks are beating the 49ers, 20-13n the
    sludgepond.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Couple of minutes left, Skidmarks are going to beat the 49ers, er,
    should I say that the 49ers beat themselves in this one.  Too many
    mistakes to beat even the Wissohiccon Boys Club 9 year old team.
    
    The HALisms and Groanerisms will be unbearable in here tomorrow.
    
    JaKe
    

    Anybody have the final, and a scoring breakdown if possible (FFL).
    								MaB

Okay, here's the information I promised TCM:

(Note:  years listed are associated with the SEASON, not the date of
the Bowl)


In the season following the 1969 Super Bowl, Minnesota beat KC 27-10.

In the season following the 1976 Super Bowl, Oakland beat Minnesota 35-13.

In the season following the 1978 Super Bowl, Pittsburgh beat Dallas 14-3

In the season following the 1992 Super Bowl, Buffalo beat Dallas 13-10.


Of the four games, two champions beat the challengers in the rematch
and two challengers beat the reigning champs.


Sometime, if I'm feeling bored, I'll go back and research those regular
season games before the Bowl that previewed the Bowl (like Giants-Denver
regular season in 1986).


'Saw

      Todd Blackledge came out of that class of 83.  Of course he only
    lasted 5 years or so.  He played for KC.
    
      Last nights 9'r loss was 23-13.  Don't have the breakdown.
    
      Bernie will be on IR if his OL doesn't learn to block.  Vinnie won't
    get them very far after that!
    
      Tim

    Re. 9.568:  TCM, you missed one:
    
    1) Baltimore chose Elway with the #1 pick
    2) Kansas City took Todd Blackledge with the #7 pick
    3) Buffalo took Kelly with the #12 pick (around there)
    4) New England took Eason with the #15 pick
    5) Jets took O'Brien with the #23 (or so) pick
    6) Miami took Marino with the #26 pick
    
    NAZZ

re: .574

MaB,

It went like this:

	Cleveland	a defensive linemand, Jones, ran in a TD
			Michael Jackson caught a TD pass from Kosar
			Stover kicked 3 FGs and had 2 PATs
	San Fran	Marc Logan ran in a TD
			Cofer kicked 2 FGs and had 1 PAT

All in all, very impressive win for Cleveland. You gotta love the defense
that they've built. Having both Jerry Ball and Michael Dean Perry makes
for a long night for the offensive line. Pepper Johnson and Clay Matthews
played well also.

On Offense, I thought the Player O' the Game was Metcalf who constantly
kept SF's defense outta sync.

TTom

    anyone have Metcalf's stats ???

There was an "illegal hands to the face" call on Sunday in Foxboro.

I couldn't help what some of the old-timers must think of these sissy
penalties these days.

I can remember when the first thing a defensive lineman would do would
be to give his offensive counterpart a big old headslap.  The guard or
tackle would return the favor by sliding his forearm hard up under the
DL's chin.

Now, you can't touch each other hardly.


Is this becoming the sissy, girly-mon, nancy-boy league or what?


'Saw

      Of course it is 'Saw.  They have domes don't they?  They have fake
    grass!
    
      Tim

>      Of course it is 'Saw.  They have domes don't they?  They have fake
>    grass!
    
It's a damn shame, isn't it?

Article: 6851
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football,clari.local.texas
Subject: Cowboys release Elliott
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 93 12:29:34 PDT
 
	IRVING, Texas (UPI) -- The Dallas Cowboys Tuesday released kicker Lin
Elliott, two days after he missed two field goal attempts in Dallas' 13-
10 loss to the Buffalo Bills.
	The Cowboys were working out numerous kickers Tuesday and were
expected to announce Elliott's replacement by Wednesday.
	Elliott kicked a 43-yard field goal in the second quarter of Sunday's
loss, but missed attempts of 30 and 49 yards. Elliott also missed an
extra point in Dallas' season-opening 35-16 loss to Washington.
	Elliott was in his second year with the Cowboys. He converted 24-of-
35 field goal attempts and 47-of-48 extra points for 119 points last
season.

Why doesn't san fran have the guts to do the same to Cofer?

Both the x-tra point and field goal he had blocked last night were low kicks
that were marginal at best. Plus he's been erratic for the past 2 years. 

Siefert was stupid to go for the 3 last night when they had 4th and 1 deep
inside cleveland territory. I just knew that the kick would get screwed up some
how. (for those that didn;t watch the holder dropped the snap while trying to
set it up...this was 9:30 PDT so I imagine not many of you were up for it)

Metz

    Yup I saw that play. 49'ers must have been tired by 12:30AM.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Lessee if I got this right:
    
    Jones won't pay Smith, so they fire the kicker.
    
    Yup, makes sense to me.

ESPN is reporting rumors that Johnson is having a hard time with all this
Emmitt and JJ stuff. Johnson showed his stress when h freaked out in the
press conference.

Supposedly, Johnson has been telling Jones that he should bring Emmitt
back and Jones told Johnson to but out, it wasn't his problem.

This morning they're reporting that Emmitt has dropped his dollar figure
a bit and Jones supposedly said that he now understands that the team
needs Emmitt and that he'll have to come up with a much better offer, one
that is consistent with the other top runners.

Speaking of top runners, meanwhile, the Lions are telling Barry Sanders
that they'll restructure his contract to look more like Thurman Thomas'.
Add that to the Steelers doing the same for Barry Foster and you get the
drift that Jones better up the ante or Emmitt will most likely sit.

TTom

    
    The early open date (week after next) helps the Cowboys,

I read today the Detriot is gong to restructure Barry sanders contract to give
him Thurman Thomas like money. It's another arrow in Emmitt's negotiating
quiver.

I still think JJ is being stupid about not giving him a decent offer and
worrying about the rest of the team later. Remember football contracts (for the
most part) aren't guarenteed so they can always ax players to get below the cap
next season.


Metz

CNN is reporting he signed.

    Not surprising.  Was he a holdout or will he be playing Sunday night?
    
    This morning's news reported that Emmitt would accept a pay cut and JJ
    offered to pay him Thurman Thomas-like money.  A compromise was all it
    took, plus Dallas being 0-2.
    
    Mike

    Nazz, Lin Elliott missed a key extra point during the Washington game
    and missed two FG vs the Buffalo Chips.  This on top of all his misses
    during the preseason.  This man could not make a FG to save his life.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

Based on the preceding criteria, it shouldn't be too long afore Mike
Cofer gets the boot by San Fran.

TTom

    The saga continues here in the 'Burgh.  Foster's agent and the STEELERS
    are reportedly VEWWY, VEWWY close, but no cigar yet.  Rumor has it that
    they're ironing out the fine print that'll go into the contract.
    
    After Foster signs, the STEELERS are set to make Rod Woodson the
    highest paid defensive back in the NFL, reportedly having a deal worth
    over $3 mil/yr.  They won't finalize that until they're done with
    Foster, though.
    
    JaKe
    

    At the half on MNF, Chiefs 12   Donks 0.
    
    donks are giving a clinic in how NOT to play football.  12 Penalties in
    the first half alone.
    
    BTW, isn't it sorta stupid fer the refs to call a false start:
    
    "False start before the snap"
    
    I mean, how the hell can there be a false start AFTER the snap???  SO
    why say, "before the snap"????
    
    Sounds sorta dumb to me, but then, it's the NFL officials, so that
    explains the dumb part.
    
    JaKe
    

     I figured as much. I mean the Donks can't play football on someone elses
    field. Too bad, for them, all their games aren't at home in Pile it high.

    Let us know who finally wins this.
    
    

    Late in the fourth, 15-0 Chiefs, Lowery 5 FG's.
    
    I'm outta here
    
    JaKe
    

     Sounds, smells like a skunk to me :-)

    15-7 final.
    
    Joe Montana has now beaten ever NFL team except Miami. Of course he did
    beat Denver and Miami in the SB.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

     He has never beaten the niners :-)

Hello,

	Can someone post the network address for CAFEIN? I can't access it anymore I get remote node
is unknown.

Ron

If'n you're looking for the ::POOL, it's on COFFEE.

	COFFEE::POOL_93

COFFEE is 32.63

TTom

Article:   6903
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football,clari.local.ohio
Subject: Browns re-sign Mack
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 14:13:43 PDT

        CLEVELAND (UPI) -- Cleveland Browns running back Kevin Mack, who had
announced his retirement during training camp, Tuesday re-signed with
the club. The Browns announced earlier this month that the 31-year-old
Mack reached an understanding to return to the 53-man roster before the
end of September.
        Mack had announced his retirement in July but changed his mind after
discussing it with Coach Bill Belichick. Mack, a 6-foot, 225-pounder, is
entering his ninth season out of Clemson.
        He has spent his entire career in Cleveland and ran for 1,104 yards
in 1985, his rookie season. Mack gained 543 yards last season and has 5,
090 yards in his career.

    Speaking of Clemson, what NFL team does Rudy Harris play for?
    
    REK

    Rumor mill has Ditka in Atlanta nexted year...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach