Conference hbahba::cam_sports

			1996 NBA DRAFT - FIRST ROUND

    Here is the official order for the first round of the NBA draft:
    
    1) Philadelphia
    2) Toronto
    3) Vancouver
    4) Milwaukee
    5) Minnesota
    6) Dallas
    7) LA Clippers
    8) New Jersey
    9) Boston
    10) Denver
    11) Golden State
    12) Cleveland (from Washington)
    13) Charlotte
    14) Sacramento
    15) Phoenix
    16) Charlotte (from Miami)
    17) Portland
    18) New York (from Det. thru SA)
    19) Atlanta or New YOrk (NY option)
    20) Cleveland
    21) New York
    22) Houston
    23) Indiana
    24) LA Lakers
    25) Utah
    26) Detroit (from San Antonio)
    27) Orlando
    28) Seattle
    29) Chicago
    
    NAZZ

    

			
			1996 NBA DRAFT - SECOND ROUND

    Here is the official order for the second round of the 1996 NBA draft:
    
    30) Vancouver
    31) Philadelphia
    32) Philadelphia (from Toronto)
    33) Milwaukee
    34) Dallas
    35) Seattle (from Minnesota)
    36) LA Clippers
    37) Sacramento (from N.J.)
    38) Boston
    39) Phoenix (from Denver)
    40) Golden State
    41) Sacramento
    42) Vancouver (from Washington)
    43) Phoenix
    44) Charlotte
    45) Miami OR Atlanta (option - NY)
    46) Portland
    47) Atlanta
    48) Philadelphia (from Detroit)
    49) Orlando (from New York)
    50) Houston (From Cleveland)
    51) Houston
    52) Indiana
    53) Milwaukee (from LA Lakers)
    54) Utah
    55) Washington (from San Antonio)
    56) Cleveland (from Orlando)
    57) Seattle
    58) Dallas (from Chicago)
    
    NAZZ
    

Wail, Charlotte gets has its own 13th and Miami's 16th pick in the
firsted round, and then the 44th in the seconded.

Right now, the rumor is that their shopping one of the firsts and Glen
Rice to try to move up to get either Stefon Marbury or Allen Iverson.

Orginally, the talk was about keeping the picks and hoping to get Steve
Nash.

Thanks for getting this started...

TTom

      So who's the 4th person drafted?  The thing that bums me out
      is that I'm a Buck's fan, they are fourth, and it seems the
      real drop-off is after the 3rd pick.
    
      That Rahim guy, if he stayed, would have been great.
    
    						Tony

The Bucks had their chance and mortgaged the future on the not so Big
Dog.

It's apparent that he wasn't worth the #1 and certainly not worth the
lasted great big fat rookie contract.

You might wanna take a bit of a flyer and take Kobe Bryant.

TTom

    
    	You could be a fan of the Timberwolves, they have consistently
    had bad luck in there draft position. They are the team that
    suffered the most with Orlando winning the lottery 2 years in a
    row. They lost out on both Shaq and Zo, in drafting 3rd one year.
    
    Ron

Minnesota certainly has had its share of misfortune with the lottery.

However, their draft choices also contributed to their malaise. 

TTom

    Johnny Davis appears to have been hired by Philly as head coach.  I
    think he was a guard from Arizona state and a bunch of teams.  Could he
    want one of the guards at #1?
    
    Also Pete Carril formerly of Princeton has been hired as an assistant
    at Sacremento.

>    Also Pete Carril formerly of Princeton has been hired as an assistant
>    at Sacremento.

Now there's a short retirement for you...

While the Big Dog may have gotten a bit more money than he deserved he's by no
means a bust, it's just that there aren't to many Grant Hill's out there or
Jason Kidd's for that matter. The Big Dog was also hurt by the loss of a year
to prop 48. I suspect in a year or two he'll be a perenial all-star. Bucks'
should go for Wallace. Wallace/Robinson/Baker would be a dynamic and tough to
cover front line. All have the skills to take the ball outside as well as into
the post. They might have some tough defensive matchup in the post but hey
that's what zones are for. Rebounding is desire just ask the Worm...........

mike

    
>>    Also Pete Carril formerly of Princeton has been hired as an assistant
>>    at Sacremento.

>Now there's a short retirement for you...
    
    It's hard to imagine Carrill out of basketball long; I'm kinda
    surprised he went to the pros, though.  Just wish it had been with
    Cleveland...
    
    Joe

I just wonder how Carril will do with *talented* guys that *don't* listen
to him...

re: Glen Robinson.

By all accounts, da not so Big Dog has shown his game to the NBA and the
NBA has yawned. He can score, but so can a bunch of others a lot of whom
do it better'n him. He can rebound, but mostly by position with his feet
on the ground which don't help your going for the ball. And where he has
little or no game is at the other end where to say he stands around is
being a bit kind.

A real question to ponder is who's better/worser: Big Dog or LJ?

TTom

> A real question to ponder is who's better/worser: Big Dog or LJ?
    
    Maybe the "Big Dog" tag was an appropriate billing.  What's LJ's 
    excuse?
    
    
    glenn
    

RE: LJ's excuse

He's a lazy bum, thinks he's a lot better'n he is while a lot of others
are a lot better'n he thinks they are. Oh yeah, he doesn't like to put
out effort and he's got more money than whole towns in S.C. and could
care less.

At least that's a lot of what I hear here.

I should apologize to Big Glen by lumping him with LJ. Sorry for that
slur, cur.

TTom

    Back to this topic.
    
    I think the Bucks will make out very well, taking either Stephon
    Marbury or Ray Allen, whoever the Grizzlies don't take.  After Iverson,
    Camby, Allen, and Marbury, there is a bit of a drop off.  I'll post my
    mock draft of the first round tomorrow.
    
    NAZZ

    Nazz, how can Philly pass on Camby?  I know there are "ifs", especially
    the famous faint, but Camby has the potential to be the biggest impact
    player since Olajuwon and Jordan (the latter taken second, btw).
    
    Oh, did you see the ESPN quiz today.  How many BE players have won NBA
    championship rings.  Can you name them?
    
    Billte

>    Oh, did you see the ESPN quiz today.  How many BE players have won NBA
>    championship rings.  Can you name them?

It must be none, otherwise you wouldn't have entered it.  Does that include
all players from these schools, even before the league formed in 1980 ?

Also, it's pretty tough to win championships when you're being drafted
by the dregs of the league in the "lottery" slots.

Salley played for Georgia Tech.

Otis Thorpe (Providence) got one with the Rockets.

Mike

>      John Salley won a couple with Detroit. You should have
>     known that, Joe.

Uh, Tommy, he went to Georgia Tech...

>Also, it's pretty tough to win championships when you're being drafted
>by the dregs of the league in the "lottery" slots.

With all due respects, Joe, this is pretty lame.

There's one guy from the ACC who was a pretty early pick and he's getting
ready to win his 4th title. The guy taken ahead of 'im has won a couple, 
too.

TTom

	The only ones I could come up with quickly are:

	Bill Wennington 	St Johns	Chicago		96
	Otis Thorpe		Providence	Houston		94

	Don't think Bill was on any of the previous Bulls champions,
	so he wouldn't even count (until tomorrow) ...

	Can't name any other Big Easters on the Rockets championship
	squads, the Bulls three-peat or the Detroit and Laker 
	back-to-backers ... that goes back about 10 years ...

	Vinny

Thorpe is the onliest.

Wennington and Simkins may the be the nexted 2.

TTom

How about:

Sam Cassell	FSU		Houston
Mark Bryant	Seton Hall	Houston


Chris

Come on fellas

Cassell and FSU are the ACC!~

TTom

RE: Jordan's draft position

By the way, wasn't Jordan drafted THIRD (behind Olajuwon and Sam Bowie) ??


Chris

RE: -2 FSU in the ACC


Whoops, sorry. Brainlock.

I thought all Florida schools were the same (Miami == FSU == Florida)

;-)


Chris

Mark Bryant played for Portland during Houston's chaampionship seasons.

wrong again.


Chris

Brainlock, braincloud, whatever. We've all had 'em. 

We're in short supply of brainstorms, though...

TTom

    I thought maybe Ewing had won a NBA champeenship.  I mean as good as
    he is.....being clutch shooter/player/defender/rebounder an all
    that stuff...
    

>         <<< Note 278.28 by HBAHBA::HAAS "more madness, less horror" >>>
>                  -< caint remember the lasted time, though >-
>
>Brainlock, braincloud, whatever. We've all had 'em. 
>
>We're in short supply of brainstorms, though...
>
>TTom


	Brain-storm (n) 1.  a violent transient fit of insanity
	Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary

	I think we've had plenty of brainstorms around here.

	Kevin

Dang!~ I always thought that brainstorms were good.

I mean all them SI types meet all the time and brainstorm. No wonder
they're sinking fast. 

BTW, I can bad mouth SI cause in the big plan in the sky, I'm gonna be
one of 'em. Seems that SI is taking of Network Services or so says Rando.

TTom

	TTom, you disappoint me.  I was hoping you'd argue the "transient" 
	part of the definition.  You just fell a notch bub.

	Kevin

    Otis Thorpe was the answer and the only BE ring-wearer.
    
    Sam Bowie was the guy drafted ahead of Jordan.  Olajawon may have been
    but I guess that can't be considered bad since many would do it again.
    
    Bowie had some kind of chronic, bone related injury not known in his
    short college career.

    
  >> Uh, Tommy, he went to Georgia Tech...

     I remembered that two seconds after I enetred it and deleted it.

    

Glad I could oblige, Kevin.

Being a_itinerant peripatetic myself, I shoulda noticed that transient
stuff.

TTom

>    Bowie had some kind of chronic, bone related injury not known in his
>    short college career.

Bowie missed at least one entire college season with a broken leg, so
he had leg problems prior to being drafted.  Whether they were defined
as cronic at that point, I don't know.  Bowie was taken purely on potential,
not what he had produced at Kentucky.

>Also, it's pretty tough to win championships when you're being drafted
>by the dregs of the league in the "lottery" slots.

>With all due respects, Joe, this is pretty lame.


Sorry, I forgot the smiley.  The whole question is lame, since the BE
hasn't been around (relatively) for that long.  I'll bet others from
these schools (pre-BE) have been on NBA championship teams.

How many Conference USA players have NBA championship rings ???

NY chose to use the #19 pick in THIS YEAR'S draft (obtained from Atl,
thru Mia, in the Pat Riley settlement).

>How many Conference USA players have NBA championship rings ???

Wail, considering that they've been in existence for a grand total of
about a year and a half, prolly none of 'em.

But if'n you take the schools theyselves, Aguire went to DePaul and he's
got a couple. Prolly more.

How long has the BE been around? Seriously. And thanks.

TTom

    THat gives the Knicks three picks - #18, #19, and #21.  I predict they
    trade #18 and #21 to move up to the top ten to get Kittles.
    
    NAZZ

>    THat gives the Knicks three picks - #18, #19, and #21.  I predict they
>    trade #18 and #21 to move up to the top ten to get Kittles.

Would #18 and #21 even *get* them a top 10?  I'm not even sure #18 and #19
would?

Personally, someone would have to offer me a pretty sweet deal to get me to
give up a top 10 pick.

Are the experts saying that Kittles will even go in the top 10?

>Are the experts saying that Kittles will even go in the top 10?

FWIW, Bob Bass, head of basketball for the Bugs, thinks so.

There is some opinion that after the firsted 4 or 5 players, there's not
much difference in the next 10 or 15. Minnesota, at #5, is rumored to be
considering trading down if both Marbury and Iverson are gone, which is
quite likely.

TTom

Iverson interviewed with Philly yesterday and it's reported that he's not going 
to interview with any other team. It would appear unless Philly changes their
minds that they're going with Iverson at #1. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't
Ray Allen the Big East Player of the year? snicker snicker.....

mike

Yeah but they got Mad Max, at least for now, at the 2 so ol' Ray'll need
to peddle his wares somewhere else.

Also, din't Iverson sign some shoe deal, too?

TTom

>Personally, someone would have to offer me a pretty sweet deal to get me to
>give up a top 10 pick.

OK, you can have Starks and all three of the picks for #10 (where Kittles,
Wallace, etc. will be waiting).

    I thought he said sweet????
    

			1996 NBA DRAFT - FIRST ROUND
    
    1) Philadelphia - Allan Iverson  6-0 G  Georgetown
    2) Toronto - Marcus Camby  6-11 F  UMass
    3) Vancouver - Ray Allen  6-4 G  UConn
    4) Milwaukee - Stephon Marbury  6-2 G  Georgia Tech
    5) Minnesota - Eric Dampier  6-11 C  Mississippi St.
    6) Dallas - John Wallace  6-8 F  Syracuse
    7) LA Clippers - Antoine Walker  6-9 F  Kentucky
    8) New Jersey - Kerry Kittles  6-5 G  Villanova
    9) Boston - Lorenzen Wright  6-11 F  Memphis
    10) Denver - Samaki Walker  6-9 F  Louisville
    11) Golden State - Steve Nash  6-2 G  Santa Clara
    12) Cleveland (from Washington) - Zydrunas Ilgauskas  7-1 C  Lithuania
    13) Charlotte - Efthimus Rentzias  6-11 C  Greece
    14) Sacramento - Preist Lauderdale  7-3 C  Central State
    15) Phoenix - Walter McCarty  6-10 F  Kentucky 
    16) Charlotte (from Miami) - Jerome Williams  6-8 F  Georgetown
    17) Portland - Jeff McGinniss  6-4 G  North Carolina
    18) New York (from Det. thru SA) - Dontae Jones  6-7 F  Mississippi State
    19) New York (from Atlanta) - Eric Gingold  7-4 C  Williams  
    20) Cleveland - Kobe Bryant  6-6 G  High School
    21) New York - Tony Delk  6-0 G  Kentucky
    22) Houston - Ryan Minor  6-7  G/F  Oklahoma
    23) Indiana - Joseph Blair  6-10 F  Arizona
    24) LA Lakers - Roy Rogers  6-10 F  Alabama
    25) Utah - Jermaine O'Neal  6-11 F  High School
    26) Detroit (from San Antonio) - Moochie Norris  6-0 G  West Florida
    27) Orlando - Travis Knight  7-0 C  UConn
    28) Seattle - Reggie Geary  6-2 G  Arizona
    29) Chicago - Vitaly Potapenko  6-10 C  Wright State
    
    NAZZ

    

    Travis makes the first round, I guess I wasn't so wrong after all!!!!
    
    hee hee hee
    
    Jimbo

Good effort, Nazz.

If'n you believe that kind thing, the Bugs will take Potapenko if'n he's
around. Supposedly, his standings were really went up after Chicago.

BTW, McInnis has retained a_agent so there's no turning back for him. At
his press conference when he announced his decision to go to the NBA he
said he was keeping the back door open and wouldn't sign on with anyone.
Evidently, like Jordan, they teach 'em good about lying over there in
Chapel Hill.

TTom

>    23) Indiana - Joseph Blair  6-10 F  Arizona
>    24) LA Lakers - Roy Rogers  6-10 F  Alabama

"Baby" Blair over Roy Rogers?

Look up "soft 6'10"", you see Blair.

You really think Wallace will go as early as six?  I keep hoping for
about 3 slots later... :-)

>>>Personally, someone would have to offer me a pretty sweet deal to get me to
>>>give up a top 10 pick.

>>OK, you can have Starks and all three of the picks for #10 (where Kittles,
>>Wallace, etc. will be waiting).

>    I thought he said sweet????

You beat me to it... :-)

Take Starks out of the deal and I might consider it. :-)

>Take Starks out of the deal and I might consider it. :-)

I keep forgeting the smiley   :^)

>    18) New York (from Det. thru SA) - Dontae Jones  6-7 F  Mississippi State
>    19) New York (from Atlanta) - Eric Gingold  7-4 C  Williams  
>    21) New York - Tony Delk  6-0 G  Kentucky

Wow...it's a bad year to have 3 1st-round picks, eh ?  Jones *might* be
a player.  Of the other two, one's a reach and the other may be too small.

It begs the question:  Why did the Knicks exercise the option to take
Atlanta's pick this year instead of next ?  Hell, if Steve Smith doesn't
return, that club could be worse next year.

    >>19) New York (from Atlanta) - Eric Gingold  7-4 C  Williams
    
    My father watches quite a few Williams college the last few years and
    saw Gingold play. According to Dad this guy never started or played
    much while at Div III Williams. He had problems dunking the ball and
    just never had his coordination together. Now after the guy gets in a
    car accident, rehabs, works out with a coach for a year, and never
    plays in a game for scouts the NBA thinks this guy is a #1 pick? This
    is not a shot at Nazz because a lot of scouts and writers are saying
    that this is where he'll go. This guy is a poor man's Chuck Nevitt. 
    A second round pick I could see. But if this guy is a top 20 pick it
    says a lot about how weak this crop is. I guess it's true that you
    cann't teach height.
    
    

There Nazz goes and toils hard on his draft predictions, a_issue of great
pride I would think, and there goes the league, wheeling and dealing.

How's a guy to know what the hail is gonna happen if'n they keep
shuffling the draft deck.

TTom

    That's why I said it was my best guess at that tiem!  ;-)
    
    thanks for pointing that out, TTom.  I wish I had seen some reports
    from the Chicago tryouts before I made my selections.  A few days
    before the draft takes place, I'll try to do both rounds, opening
    myself up to further abuse.
    
    NAZZ

I'm keeping my eye out on the net for some mock ones. So far the onliest
ones I've found have people being drafted who aint going to the NBA and
leaves off a lot of the people who have now declared.

Still a pretty good effort, though Nazz...

      I thought I heard that Rahim might enter again?  Anyone
      hear that???
    
      Do most of you think Allen goes before Marbury???  I'm
      hoping the Bucks get Marbury - or Rahim.

FWIW,

Sunday Abadayo has withdrawn from the NBA and is going to attend Memphis.

Abadayo has one more year of eligibilty. He was declared ineligible at
Arkansas because his JC grades weren't properly certified.

Abadayo made his decision after attending the pre NBA draft camp in
Chicago where he showed up fat and outta shape.

TTom

   
                              NBA DRAFT RANKINGS
                                       
   By Don Leventhal
   Special to ESPNET SportsZone
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   Here is an early ranking of the top 75 prospects for the 1996 NBA
   Draft (updated June 10)
   

NO.     PLAYER             POS.    HT.  WT.   SCHOOL
 1      Allen Iverson**     PG     6-0  170   Georgetown
 2      Stephon Marbury**   PG     6-2  180   Georgia Tech
 3      Marcus Camby**      PF     6-11 220   Massachusetts
 4      Ray Allen**         SG     6-5  205   Connecticut
 5      Erick Dampier**     C      6-11 265   Mississippi St.
 6      John Wallace        SF     6-8  225   Syracuse
 7      Antoine Walker**    SF     6-8  224   Kentucky
 8      Lorenzen Wright**   PF     6-10 225   Memphis
 9      Kerry Kittles       SG     6-5  179   Villanova
10      Todd Fuller         C      6-11 260   NC State
11      Samaki Walker**     PF     6-9  240   Louisville
12      Roy Rogers          F-C    6-10 235   Alabama
13      Kobe Bryant#        G      6-6  195   Lower Merion (Pa.) HS
14      Zydrunas Ilgauskas**C      7-1  240   Lithuania
15      Walter McCarty      F      6-10 230   Kentucky
16      Dontae Jones**      SF     6-7  220   Mississippi St.
17      Steve Nash          PG     6-3  185   Santa Clara
18      Jerome Williams     F      6-9  206   Georgetown
19      Ryan Minor          SF     6-7  220   Oklahoma
20      Priest Lauderdale** C      7-2  280   Greece/Central St.
21      Efthimis Retzias**  C      6-11 243   PAOK (Greece)
22      Vitaly Potapenko**  C-F    6-10 290   Wright State
23      Jermaine O'Neal#    F      6-11 225   Eau Claire (S.C.) HS
24      Moochie Norris      PG     6-1  175   West Florida
25      Travis Knight       C      7-0  235   Connecticut
26      Mark Hendrickson    PF     6-9  240   Washington St.
27      Tony Delk           G      6-1  193   Kentucky
28      Ronnie Henderson**  SG     6-4  193   LSU
29      Drew Barry          PG     6-4  191   Georgia Tech
30      Jeff McInnis**      PG     6-4  190   North Carolina
31      Brian Evans         SF     6-8  220   Indiana
32      Russ Millard        F      6-9  240   Iowa
33      Predrag Stojakovic**SF     6-9  200   PAOK (Greece)
34      Joseph Blair        F-C    6-10 250   Arizona
35      Doron Sheffer       PG     6-5  197   Connecticut
36      Othella Harrington  PF     6-9  235   Georgetown
37      Eric Gingold        C      7-4  290   Williams Coll. (MA)
38      Steve Hamer         C      7-0  240   Tennessee
39      Randy Livingston**  PG     6-4  195   LSU
40      Mark Pope           PF     6-10 235   Kentucky
41      Art Long            PF     6-9  253   Cincinnati
42      Kevin Simpson**     SG     6-4  195   Dixie JC
43      Reggie Geary        PG     6-2  187   Arizona
44      Jason Osborne**     F-G    6-8  200   Louisville
45      Jess Settles**      SF     6-7  220   Iowa
46      Chucky Atkins       PG     6-0  168   South Florida
47      Jason Sasser        SF     6-6  225   Texas Tech
48      Ron Riley           SG     6-5  205   Arizona State
49      Tim Moore           SF     6-7  222   Houston
50      Donta Bright        SF     6-6  223   Massachusetts
51      Carlos Strong       F      6-8  244   Georgia
52      Ben Davis           PF     6-8  253   Arizona
53      Amal McCaskill      C-F    6-11 235   Marquette
54      Mark Sanford**      SF     6-8  200   Washington
55      Darnell Robinson**  C      6-11 270   Arkansas
56      Marcus Brown        SG     6-3  185   Murray State
57      Dante Calabria      SG     6-5  197   North Carolina
58      Brandon Jessie      G-F    6-4  226   Utah
59      Simeon Haley        C      7-0  235   Missouri
60      Johnny Rhodes       SG     6-4  205   Maryland
61      Jeff Nordgaard      SF     6-7  222   Wisconsin-GB
62      Derek Fisher        PG     6-1  200   Ark.-LR
63      Malik Rose          PF     6-7  250   Drexel
64      Shandon Anderson    F-G    6-6  205   Georgia
65      Marcus Mann         PF     6-7  228   Miss.Valley St.
66      Raimonds Miglinieks PG     6-3  205   Cal-Irvine
67      Bernard Hopkins     SF     6-7  240   Va. Commonwealth
68      Kenneth Roberts     SF     6-8  210   BYU
69      Jamie Feick         PF     6-9  250   Michigan State
70      Erick Strickland    SG-PG  6-3  213   Nebraska
71      Chris Robinson      SG     6-5  205   W. Kentucky
72      Kevin Granger       G      6-3  190   Texas Southern
73      Sammie Haley        C      7-1  235   Missouri
74      Jaron Boone         SG     6-6  195   Nebraska
75      Kwame Evans         SG     6-6  190   George Washington

   **-Underclassmen committed to the draft
   #-High school player
   
   Don Leventhal has been writing draft previews for the past decade. He
   will update his rankings periodically leading up to the NBA draft
   June 26. For further information on purchasing his two-part draft
   report, contact him at 800-950-3201.

    re: .17
    
    > Camby has the potential to be the biggest impact
    > player since Olajuwon and Jordan
    
    Camby is good, but there is no way he's that good, otherwise he'd be a
    lock for the first pick in the draft.  He could just as easily turn out
    to be the next Brad Sellers.

      Anyway, I'm curious as to whay anyone and everyone thinks...
    
      Who goes earlier?
    
      Ray Allen or Stephon Marbury?
    
      I'm hoping Allen goes first.  I want the Bucks to land Marbury.

 
    >> Camby has the potential to be the biggest impact
    >> player since Olajuwon and Jordan
    >
    > Camby is good, but there is no way he's that good, otherwise he'd be a
    > lock for the first pick in the draft.
    
    You mean like Jordan was?
    
    
    glenn
    

>      Who goes earlier?
>    
>      Ray Allen or Stephon Marbury?
>    
>      I'm hoping Allen goes first.  I want the Bucks to land Marbury.

No chance.  None.  Don't even get your hopes up.  If Marbury goes to the
Bucks I will eat crow (even though I don't care much).  The good thing about
that is that he'll have Chris Ford coaching him.

The Raptors will take Camby if he gets to them.  Marbury is supposedly going
to be the first pick.

And I think almost anyone would take Marbury over Allen.

Meanwhile, I heard that Lorenzen Wright blew a wheel in a playground
game.

Somethiung about breaking a_ankle of leg. Anybody hear anything about
that?

TTom

    > Camby has the potential to be the biggest impact
    > player since Olajuwon and Jordan
    
ESPNET has a "look-see" at the off-season and when talking about
Calipari and Camby the article said something like this:

	"Calipari doesn't want Camby.  He knows his weaknesses all
	 too well.  He doesn't board well and has no position in the
	 NBA."

The article goes on to say that Calipari wants Antione Walker (Ken).

    re: .65
    
    I thought Iverson was going first?  Camby second?  This leaves
    Vancouver with the next pick and Milwaukee after that.
    
    NAZZ's mock draft had the Grizzlies taking Ray Allen.
    
    						Tony

The firsted 2 seem easy.

Iverson has only visited Philly. Thomas says he's taking Camby.

Then the fun begins. Vancouver needs about ever position but will prolly
pass on a big man hoping Big Country continues his development. They may
consider Anthony good enough for now at the point which may make 'em lean
to Allen.

They may think that they caint pass on a point guard with Marbury's
potential and go that way.

The Bucks get the other guy, right now at least. There's about a week for
more wheeling and dealing a la Denver.

TTom

    Isaiah will take Marbury. There's too much similarity in their styles
    and background. The Camby thing is a ruse to get Philly to take
    Iverson.
    
    Chris

    
      He's already got his Marbury in Stoudamire.

    
    Glenn if you had a clue about hoop, you'd see who went before Jordan in
    the draft and realize why he didn't go first.  Drafting a big man is
    worth taking a risk.  To draft a point guard first basically
    illustrates how much of a stiff Camby is/will be in the NBA.
    
    

>    Glenn if you had a clue about hoop, you'd see who went before Jordan in
>    the draft and realize why he didn't go first.  Drafting a big man is
>    worth taking a risk. 
    
    So I heard about Brad Daugherty...
    
    
    glenn
    

>                             -< Joe Barry Carroll >-
    
    TTom, if you had any clue about hoop, you'd see who went before 
    McHale in the draft and realize why he didn't go first...
    
    glenn
    

    
      Can anyone remember the last time that the "big man is worth taking
     a risk" theory actually bore fruit? 

The problem with the question is that is seems like the onliest big men
to succeed were those that had obvious talent while ever one of the
rest of 'em pretty much turned into the Sam Bowie type bust.

And even some with potential din't make it, prolly most notable being
Chris Washburn.

TTom

    re .72,
    
    	Could be that Philly is drafting 1st because they have lousy
    management as well as lousy players. Philly feels they have enough
    front court depth, thus are going for a guard. Philly is stupid to
    rely on Derrick Coleman.
    
    Ron

    But if we are to believe the NBA guru types that Groaner subscribes
    to, Camby is not a "big man" anyway, so it's perfectly acceptable 
    that he go on to stardom even if not the #1 pick.
    
    I'd kinda go along with the logic here, and that supposedly attributed
    to Calipari by ESPN, if we were talking about Camby being down at 5 or
    6, but that ain't happening...
    
    It's also legal for 2, maybe even 3 great players to come out of a
    single draft, without all but the #1 being a "stiff".
    
    glenn
    

  WASHINGTON'S SANFORD DROPS OUT OF DRAFT

   SEATTLE - University of Washington sophomore Mark Sanford announced
   Tuesday he has withdrawn his name from the NBA draft and will return
   to school for his junior season. The 6-8 forward had sent a letter to
   NBA commissioner David Stern on April 29, declaring himself eligible
   for the June 26 draft. But Sanford had a change of heart after
   participating in the NBA's predraft camp in Chicago two weeks ago and
   meeting with Washington coach Bob Bender last week. ''There are still
   some things in college that I want to do,'' he said Tuesday. ''I want
   to win a Pac-10 championship and play in the NCAA tournament.'' NBA
   scouts were impressed by Sanford's athletic ability, but many felt he
   wasn't ready for the pros. Scouts were concerned about his
   ball-handling and lack of range on his jump shot.
  

    
    Camby is not a big man, and those who think Daugherty was a failure in
    the NBA don't know poop.  Daugherty was a success.
    
    

>Daugherty was a success.

I guess you're in the same school as Heiser.

Look, Daugherty had a good career cut short due to injuries and may be
the nicest guy in the world but other than making a bunch of money, I
don't see that he accomplished all that much.

BTW, ol' Brad says he never said he was gonna retire. Turns out that if'n
he quits he might miss out on a bunch of money. Like 20 mil. 

TTom

    Camby is "potentially" the top prospect to come along in years.  Anyone
    who watches Dennis Rodman know what athletic ability can do.  There is
    an unknown factor about Camby and the famous "faint" is part of it.  So
    Calipari is alleged to have made a negative remark about Camby?  What a
    laugh coming from a draft position that wouldn't normally touch Camby.
    
    Camby was very limited in college by the five foul rule and his ability
    to totally dominate when allowed to play with any aggresiveness.  I
    hope he doesn't end up with any number of the total fools that run so
    many of the nba teams today as Bob Ryan has related so well and can
    play for a team that will use his abilities.  Believe it or not M.L.
    Carr would be a great coach for him.

    
    Daugherty put up career numbers near 20ppg and 10rpg.  While he's not
    going into the Hall of Fame (I think he had a chance if he didn't get
    injured), he was definitely in the top echelon of centers in his time.

OK, Daugherty was personally successful for a while and made a bunch of
money while Cleveland accomplished little during his stay.

    
       Daugherty was a punk-hearted stiff who could only be judged a
      success by the Cadavaliers pathetically low standard. Other than
      that, he was okay.

    
    Mo Vaughn is a punk-hearted stiff who can only be judged by a success
    by the Boston Red Sox pathetically low standard.  Other than that, he
    was okay.

    
       I dunno, I think winning the MVP is a pretty good measure
      of success. 

I liked Brad but don't care much for Mo Vaugn who caint hold a candle to
Moe Howard much less Frank Howard.

However, as a_upright citizen, all of 'em seem to have Joey beat by a
long mile.

TTom

 Daugherty certainly was an ok player but he was too soft too dainty to take
 Cleveland anywhere. 

>    TTom, who died and left you king?

If'n that's part of the new System Integration group of the new Digital
Services Division, than I guess you can blame Big Bob.

What we have here is a typical lack of distinctions in the discussion.

Ainge and Daugherty were both successful in a lot of different ways, both
personally and financially. I aint got nothing against either with the
possible exception that Rush Limbaugh is a big fat Ainge fan.

BTW, your main main, Paul Westphal was supposedly interviewed by another
big fat guy, Krauss, and the Bulls. Seems like they wanna have a Plan B
if'n Jackson doesn't agree to being paid half of what Johnny Come Lately
Calipari'll get.

TTom

BTW, that rumor came from the newly invigorated NBA reporter, Peter
Vescey.

I guess ol' Pete has his testosterone flowing after beating up that guy
the other day.

Nah, then he woulda called the costume stupid instead of Vescey.

Nothing would make me happier than to see both Jerry Krause and Pat
Williams lose their *franchise players* this summer.  Neither earned
the respect they get in the press.  Both fell into success via pure
dumb luck (Jordan falling to 3 and Orlando winning the lottery two
years in a row).

      If Camby can gain weight like Vin Baker did, he'll be just fine.
      If not...
    
      well I figure he'll be OK, but nothing extra special.

more changes:


   ESPNET SportsZone | NBA

                  ROCKETS SEND TOP PICK, PLAYERS TO GRIZZLIES


     _________________________________________________________________

   VANCOUVER, British Columbia -- The Vancouver Grizzlies acquired
   forwards [IMAGE] Pete Chilcutt and Tim Breaux and the first- and
   second-round picks of the Houston Rockets for three second-round
   selections, the team announced Wednesday.

   The deal gives the Grizzlies two first-round picks in the June 26
   draft and leaves the Rockets without a first-round pick for the third
   straight year. Vancouver will select third and 22nd in the first
   round.

   The Rockets view the deal as addition by subtraction for salary cap
   purposes.

   
   ESPNET SportsZone
   
                IN OR OUT OF DRAFT? ABDUR-RAHIM STILL ON BUBBLE
                                       
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   BERKELEY, Calif. -- First California forward Shareef Abdur-Rahim said
   he was jumping to the NBA. Then he changed his mind. One week before
   the draft, his status is still up in the air.
   
   Abdur-Rahim, the Pacific-10's leading scorer and freshman of the year,
   has not yet sent in his request to be removed from the draft, the San
   Francisco Chronicle reported Friday.
   
   A letter requesting removal from the list of eligible college players
   must be received at league offices by 5 p.m. EST Monday. If the
   notification is not received, Abdur-Rahim can be drafted.
   
   If he is drafted, Abdur-Rahim can still remain in school. However, any
   team that drafts him would retain his rights for a year after he
   leaves school.
   
   A California spokesman said the form has been completed, but
   Abdur-Rahim has not mailed the request. California coach Todd Bozeman
   said the letter had been written.
   
   "I've got the letter on my desk right now," Bozeman said. "I just
   haven't sent it in yet."
   
   The draft will be held Wednesday.
   
   The 19-year-old, considered the top freshman in the nation last
   season, announced May 7 that he was entering the draft. One month
   later he said he had changed his mind and would stay with the Golden
   Bears.

      I THINK RAHIM IS IN BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
      Implication: The Bucks get no worse than Marbury.  I truly 
      feel that there is a bit of a dip after the first 4 picks.
    
      I still have hope for Respert...
    
    	Baker/Robinson/Marbury/Respert
    
      and a center or big forward (acting as a center) to be paid
      for later, i.e. the Bucks have a LOT of free cash!!!
    
    						Tony

 The NBA Draft returns to the New York metro area this year
after being held at venues throughout North America over the past
four years. The 1995 draft took place at Toronto's SkyDome; 1994
at RCA Dome in Indianapolis; 1993 at The Palace of Auburn Hills
and the 1992 draft was held at Memorial Coliseum in Portland,
the former home of the Trail Blazers.
 The 1996 NBA Draft will be a two-round draft, as will the
1997 NBA Draft. Beginning with the 1998 Draft, the draft will
be reduced to one round.
 Per their expansion agreements, Vancouver and Toronto cannot
select first in the 1996, 1997 or 1998 NBA Drafts. In the event
one of those teams wins the NBA Draft Lottery, that team will
be entitled to the second selection in that particular NBA Draft.
 Entering this year's Draft, only six schools have produced
more than one No. 1 overall NBA Draft pick, North Carolina (Brad
Daugherty in 1986 and James Worthy in 1982), Houston (Hakeem Olajuwon
in 1984 and Elvin Hayes in 1968), UCLA (Bill Walton in 1974 and
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in 1969), Michigan (Chris Webber in 1993 and
Cazzie Russell in 1966), Purdue (Glenn Robinson in 1994 and Joe
Barry Carrol in 1980) and Maryland (Joe Smith in 1995 and John
Lucas in 1976).
 Early entry candidates have made their presence felt at the
top of the Draft for the past four seasons. Joe Smith was chosen
No. 1 overall by the Golden State Warriors in 1995; Glenn Robinson
was the first pick by Milwaukee in 1994; Chris Webber was taken
first by Orlando in 1993 and Shaquille O'Neal was tabbed by the
Magic in 1992. Larry Johnson, the top pick in 1991 by the Charlotte
Hornets, is the last senior player to be picked No. 1 overall.
 Prior to 1992, only four early entry candidates had been taken
with the No. 1 pick since underclassmen were first allowed to
declare themselves eligible in 1971: Earvin "Magic"
Johnson (by the Los Angeles Lakers in 1979), Mark Aguirre (by
Dallas in 1981), James Worthy (by the Los Angeles Lakers in 1982)
and Hakeem Olajuwon (by Houston in 1984).
 The 1995 Draft saw a record 10 underclassmen chosen in the
first round. They were #1 Joe Smith (Golden State), #2 Antonio
McDyess (Los Angeles Clippers); #3 Jerry Stackhouse (Philadelphia);
#3 Rasheed Wallace (Washington); #5 Kevin Garnett (Minnesota);
#11 Gary Trent (Milwaukee); #13 Corliss Williamson (Sacramento);
#25 David Vaughn (Orlando); #27 Mario Bennet (Phoenix); #29 Cory
Alexander (San Antonio).
 The 1990s have become known for the large number of underclassmen
being picked in the first round. However, this is not completely
a `90s phenomenon. In the 1982 Draft, nine underclassmen were
picked in the first round. They were #1 James Worthy (Los Angeles
Lakers); #2 Terry Cummings (San Diego Clippers); #3 Dominique
Wilkins (Utah); #5 LaSalle Thompson (Kansas City Kings); #7 Quintin
Daily (Chicago); #8 Clark Kellogg (Indiana); #9 Cliff Levingston
(Detroit); #12 John Bagley (Cleveland) and #19 Rob Williams (Denver).
 Since 1966, only five guards have been selected with the No.
1 overall pick in the NBA Draft: Jimmy Walker (Providence) by
Detroit in 1967, Austin Carr (Notre Dame) by Cleveland in 1971,
Doug Collins (Illinois State) by Philadelphia in 1973, John Lucas
(Maryland) by Houston in 1976 and Magic Johnson (Michigan State)
by the Lakers in 1979.
 During the 1992 Draft, Todd Day (No. 8), Lee Mayberry (No.
23) and Oliver Miller (No. 24) of Arkansas became just the fifth
trio of college teammates to be selected in the first round of
the same NBA Draft. They joined Larry Johnson, Stacey Augmon,
and Greg Anthony of UNLV (1991), Rumeal Robinson, Loy Vaught and
Terry Mills of Michigan (1990), David Greenwood, Roy Hamilton
and Brad Holland of UCLA (1979) and Scott May, Quinn Buckner and
Bobby Wilkerson of Indiana (1976).
 The 1994 Draft saw four pairs of college teammates selected
in the first round: Jason Kidd (No. 2, Dallas) and Lamond Murray
(No. 7 LA Clippers) of California; Juwan Howard (No. 5, Washington)
and Jalen Rose (No. 13, Denver) of Michigan; Eddie Jones (No.
10, LA Lakers) and Aaron McKie (No. 17, Portland) of Temple; and
Clifford Rozier (No. 16, Golden State) and Greg Minor (No. 25,
LA Clippers) of Louisville.
 Sacramento had four first-round picks (Lionel Simmons, Travis
Mays, Anthony Bonner and Duane Causwell) in the 1990 Draft, the
most first-round picks ever for one team in the same Draft.
 Charles Jones of the Houston Rockets was the 165th player
(8th round) chosen in the 1979 Draft, selected by the Phoenix
Suns. Although 164 NBA Draft players might have looked better
on the day of that Draft, only Jones was still an active player
during the 1995-1996 season.
 You don't have to be picked in the first round of the Draft
to become a successful NBA player. Willis Reed, the first pick
of the second round of the 1964 Draft, is a member of the Hall
of Fame. The catch? Reed was the 10th overall selection that year
in the nine-team NBA.
 Some recent second-round selections that have made an impact
on the NBA are Tyus Edney of Sacramento (47th overall in 1995);
Michael Smith of Sacramento (35th in 1994); Gheorghe Muresan of
Washington (30th in 1993); Nick Van Exel of the Los Angeles Lakers
(37th in 1993); P.J. Brown of New Jersey (29th in 1992); Popeye
Jones of Dallas (41st in 1992); Matt Geiger of Charlotte (42nd
in 1992); Elliot Perry of Phoenix (37th in 1991); Bobby Phills
of Cleveland (45th in 1992); Bimbo Coles of Golden State (40th
in 1990); Antonio Davis of Indiana (45th in 1990) and Cedric Ceballos
of the Los Angeles Lakers (48th in 1990).
 With the NBA Draft now down to two rounds, several players
who never heard their names called on Draft Day have made a place
for themselves in the NBA. Some of those drafted who were active
in the 1995-1996 season were: Keith Askins (Miami), David Benoit
(Utah), Scott Brooks (Dallas), Mitchell Butler (Washington), Marty
Conlon (Milwaukee), John Crotty (Cleveland), Terry Davis (Dallas),
Duane Ferrell (Indiana), Antonio Harvey (LA Clippers), Charles
Outlaw (LA Clippers), Robert Pack (Washington), John Starks (New
York), David Wesley (Boston), Lorenzo Williams (Dallas) and David
Wood (Dallas).

Updated Draft order:

First round                   Second round

 1. Philadelphia              30. Vancouver
 2. Toronto                   31. Philadelphia
 3. Vancouver                 32. Philadelphia (from Toronto)
 4. Milwaukee                 33. Milwaukee
 5. Minnesota                 34. Dallas
 6. Boston (from Dallas)      35. Seattle (from Minnesota)
 7. L.A. Clippers             36. *L.A. Clippers
 8. New Jersey                37. Denver (from Sac. via N.J.)
 9. Dallas (from Boston)      38. Boston
10. Indiana (from Denver)     39. **Denver
11. Golden State              40. Golden State
12. Cleveland (from Wash.)    41. Sacramento
13. Charlotte                 42. Vancouver (from Wash. via Orl.)
14. Sacramento                43. Phoenix
15. Phoenix                   44. Charlotte
16. Charlotte (from Miami)    45. Atlanta (from Miami)
17. Portland                  46. Portland
18. N.Y.(from Det. via S.A.)  47. Atlanta
19. N.Y.(from Atl. via Mia.)  48. Philadelphia (from Detroit)
20. Cleveland                 49. Orlando (from N.Y. via Min. & Van.)
21. New York                  50. Houston (from Cleveland)
22. Houston                   51. Houston
23. Denver (from Indiana)     52. Indiana
24. L.A. Lakers               53. Milwaukee (from Lakers via Sea.)
25. Utah                      54. Utah
26. Detroit (from S.A.)       55. Washington (from S.A. via Char.)
27. Orlando                   56. Cleveland (from Orlando)
28. Seattle                   57. Seattle
29. Chicago                   58. Dallas (from Chicago)

   *If Denver's second-round pick is not available, the L.A. Clippers'
   second-round pick will be conveyed to Phoenix through Detroit.
   
   **If Denver's second-round pick is available, it will be conveyed to
   Phoenix (through the L.A. Clippers and Detroit).

    I was speaking with someone in Toronto this morning. The rumor there is
    that the Grizzlies are going to try to make a trade with the 76 ers to
    swap spots in the first round so that the Grizzlies can grab Rahim
    before the Raptors have a chance to draft him, If this happens Camby
    should end up with the Raptors and Philly will still get Iverson plus
    something from the Grizzlies.

    re .105,
    
    	It makes perfect sense for both sides to try and pull off a trade.
    Philly still gets Iverson and Vancouver gets who they want. Even if
    Toronto then traded down and someone took Iverson with the 2nd pick,
    Philly would still get Stephon Marbury.
    
    Ron

      re: .106
    
      And your last scenario gives Camby to the Bucks (which I don't
      mind either!).
    
    						Tony

>>      And your last scenario gives Camby to the Bucks (which I don't
>>      mind either!).
    
	Seriously, why would the Bucks want Marcus Camby???
	With Glenn Robinson and Vin Baker, they are solid at forward,
	they are in desperate need of a point guard and a center
	who can rebound and defend ...

	I would not be surprised to see Milwaukee pass on Camby 
	and take Ray Allen or (more likely) deal the pick if the top 
	three players chosen are Iverson/Rahim/Marbury.

	Vinny

It's being reported that the Bucks like Erick Dampier and may take him at
#4. He's worked out a couple of times and like about ever other team in
the league, the Bucks need help in the middle. Like the Celtics, too.

TTom

NBA Draft

     _________________________________________________________________
   
  SEARCHING FOR DRAFT SLEEPERS
  
   
   EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. - Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Vitaly Potapenko. Efthimis
   Retzias. Eric Gingold. Moochie Norris.
   
   Hardly household names, but players nonetheless expected to attract
   some attention when the NBA draft unfolds Wednesday evening at the
   Continental Airlines Arena.
   
   They are sleepers in a two-round draft that features such big-name
   college players as Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Marcus Camby and
   Ray Allen.
   
   Ilgauskas, Potapenko, Retzias and Gingold have the commodity most
   desired by NBA types and something that can't be taught - height - and
   that makes them desirable, even as long-term projects.
   
   And Norris, a West Florida point guard, has seen his stock soar after
   impressing scouts in every pre-draft camp he's attended.
   
   ''Some of those guys are going to be in the league for a long time,''
   said Toronto Raptors scouting director Bob Zuffelato.
   
   But, as with every sleeper pick, there are lingering doubts.
   
   ''There are a lot of good potential products, not finished products,''
   Indiana Pacers vice-president Billy Knight told USA Today. ''They have
   a lot to learn.
   
   ''The strength of this draft is in the potential, not in dominating
   right away.''
   
   Ilgauskas, who declared himself eligible for last year's draft but
   pulled out at the last minute, did not play last year while he
   rehabilitated a broken foot. The seven-foot-one Lithuanian is expected
   to be a first-round draft choice this time around.
   
   As with many other European big men, he can step away from the basket,
   much like Portland's Arvydas Sabonis, while possessing the
   shot-blocking and rebounding skills scouts like. The fact he's just 21
   years old puts him as a likely top-15 pick Wednesday night.
   
   Potapenko, also 21, shone during the pre-draft camps, particularly in
   Chicago, where the top prospects gathered earlier this month. A 6-10
   Ukrainian who played at Wright State, Potapenko elevated himself from
   late first round to the top 15 with his play.
   
   ''He showed some good things,'' Vancouver GM Stu Jackson said after
   watching Potapenko in Chicago. ''He probably did the most to help
   himself as anyone.''
   
   Potapenko averaged 21 points as lightly regarded Wright State earned
   an NCAA berth.
   
   ''He's a horse,'' said Bill Foster, the coach of rival Virginia Tech.
   ''That guy's got a real future.''
   
   Like Ilgauskas, Retzias has been playing club ball in Europe but has
   shown flashes of excellence. Just 20 years old, the 6-11 Retzias was
   the 1995 rookie of the year in the tough Greek league and MVP at the
   1995 world junior championships.
   
   He's projected as a mid-first-round pick but has a big contract with
   PAOK of the Greek League and might want to stay home and make big
   money instead of learning the ropes in the NBA after playing for
   Greece in the Atlanta Olympics.
   
   Gingold is the most difficult player to assess of any available
   Wednesday night.
   
   After playing just one year at high school, the 7-4 300-pounder
   enrolled at tiny Williams College in Massachusetts where he played in
   only 30 games over three seasons. He transferred to West Virginia
   after the 1993-94 season but was involved in a near-fatal car crash
   and never played a game. He needed 11 operations over a 18-month
   period and has not played since 1994.
   
   He has held private workouts - mainly just halfcourt drills - for
   several NBA teams but has not scrimmaged against other players, making
   scouts wary of his ability to handle the pace of a regular game.
   
   Norris, a 6-1 point guard, made the biggest gains of any player in the
   pre-draft season. He was a star at the Portsmouth Invitational, where
   many second-round picks play, and followed that with a solid showing
   at the Nike Classic in Phoenix, where mid-first-round picks gather.
   Then, at the final camp in Chicago, he excelled again and many scouts
   now have him pencilled in as a first-round pick.
   
   By The Associated Press

and another fealess forecast

  The Associated Press [www.usatoday.com]

  THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS
   
   The players keep getting younger, with possibly 20 underclassmen,
   including high schoolers, going in the first round. Can junior high be
   far behind? A look at Wednesday's NBA draft:
   
   1. Philadelphia - Allen Iverson, G, Georgetown. After a hard look at
   Stephon Marbury, rookie GM Brad Greenberg chooses the quicker of the
   two point guards. Iverson looks for his own shot more than Marbury.
   
   2. Toronto - Shareef Abdur-Rahim, F, California. GM Isiah Thomas
   passes on Marcus Camby, who looked like a lock for the Raptors a week
   ago, and goes for the first freshman to win player of the year honors
   in the Pac-10.
   
   3. Vancouver - Marbury, G, Georgia Tech. GM Stu Jackson would prefer
   Abdur-Rahim, but he may be gone. In that case, Jackson will pick
   Marbury or Camby.
   
   4. Milwaukee - Camby, F, Massachusetts. The college player of the year
   is too good to pass up for GM Mike Dunleavy and coach Chris Ford, even
   though they have Vin Baker and Glenn Robinson at forward. The Bucks
   would prefer Marbury.
   
   5. Minnesota - Ray Allen, G, Connecticut. The best off-guard in the
   draft fits with the Wolves, who still need a point guard and tried to
   swap picks with Grizzlies so they could get Marbury.
   
   6. Boston - Erick Dampier, C, Mississippi State. The Celtics traded
   Eric Montross last week to move up to No. 6, and they need a center
   with Dampier's bulk (6-foot-11, 265 pounds). The pick could be traded
   for an established center.
   
   7. L.A. Clippers - Antoine Walker, F, Kentucky. Based on history,
   chances are the Clips will trade the pick for a solid player with one
   year left on his contract who will leave as a free agent next summer.
   
   8. New Jersey - John Wallace, F, Syracuse. A no-brainer even for the
   Nets, who blew their last two lottery picks on Yinka Dare and Ed
   O'Bannon.
   
   9. Dallas - Lorenzen Wright, C, Memphis. Rookie coach Jim Cleamons
   will have solved his big-man problems with this pick and the trade for
   Montross. Still pending: team chemistry trouble.
   
   10. Indiana - Kerry Kittles, G, Villanova. Insurance in case free
   agent Reggie Miller leaves town.
   
   11. Golden State - Steve Nash, G, Santa Clara. Will challenge point
   guard Bimbo Coles for playing time.
   
   12. Cleveland - Vitaly Potapenko, F, Wright State. The 6-10, 280-pound
   standout at the Chicago pre-draft camp scoots into the top 12.
   
   13. Charlotte - Todd Fuller, C, North Carolina State. Robert Parish
   has to retire sometime, doesn't he? Fuller stays in-state.
   
   14. Sacramento - Efthimis Retzias, C, Greece. A 20-year-old, 6-11
   project for the post-Olden Polynice days.
   
   15. Phoenix - Zydrunas Ilgauskas, C, Lithuania. Seven-foot-1 centers
   who possess offensive skills and can run the floor don't come easily,
   and the Suns need one.
   
   16. Charlotte - Moochie Norris, G, West Florida. Another pre-draft
   camp star, he could take the place of free agent Kenny Anderson at
   point guard.
   
   17. Portland - Samaki Walker, F, Louisville. An accurate shooter and
   good defender who could replace Buck Williams or Clifford Robinson.
   May not fall this far.
   
   18. New York - Kobe Bryant, G, Lower Merion (Pa.) H.S. The Knicks
   would love to get a shot at the 17-year-old son of ex-76er Joe Bryant,
   and if he falls this far, New York will take its chances.
   
   19. New York - Predrag Stojakovic, F, Greece. Born and raised in
   Yugoslavia, the youngster could be the best shooter from the Balkans
   since Drazen Petrovic.
   
   20. Cleveland - Roy Rogers, C, Alabama. More size and muscle for a
   team that needs it in the middle.
   
   21. New York - Jerome Williams, F. Georgetown. The Knicks love good
   defenders who look to rebound before they look to score. Williams
   fits.
   
   22. Vancouver - Dontae' Jones, F, Mississippi State. Those who saw him
   in the NCAA Tournament loved him; those who saw him for a whole season
   have their doubts.
   
   23. Denver - Priest Lauderdale, C, Greece. Played in Europe after
   being ruled ineligible at Central (Ohio) State. A 7-2 body for a team
   that may lose Dikembe Mutombo.
   
   24. L.A. Lakers - Othella Harrington, F, Georgetown. Lakers grab a
   player who is too short to be an NBA center but who should do well at
   forward.
   
   25. Utah - Brian Evans, F, Indiana. The Big Ten player of the year
   goes to a team that's almost always looking for a starting small
   forward or a center.
   
   26. Detroit - Jermaine O'Neal, C, Eau Claire (S.C.) H.S. Don Reid was
   the starting center last year for the Pistons. Enough said.
   
   27. Orlando - Tony Delk, G, Kentucky. A 3-point shooter and a winner
   who would be drafted a dozen spots higher if he was three inches
   taller than he is at 6-foot-1.
   
   28. Seattle - Walter McCarty, F, Kentucky. An athletic big body (6-10)
   who has shown a touch from 3-point range in college.
   
   29. Chicago - Drew Barry, G, Georgia Tech. The third son of Hall of
   Famer Rick Barry to make it to the NBA.

    
    	I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks took both Kobe Bryant and
    Jermaine O'neal. They have 3 1st round picks and can gamble. It
    might benefit both players if they have someone there age on the team
    to hang out with.
    
    	Also how come when people talk about Marcus Camby they are
    concerned that he is only 220 lbs, well Shareef Abdur-Rahim is also
    220 lbs. Granted Rahim is 2 years younger and can also still bulk
    up some.
    
    Ron

Prolly the worsted thing going for Camby is the KOD from Isiah Thomas
guaranteeing that he'd take 'im.

Ever one knows you caint trust a GM this close to the draft. That goes
for all of 'em.

Like our guy Bob Bass. He keeps repeating that he's not gonna trade any
of what he calls the core and ever beat writer in America is talking
about trade offers they've heard involving Glen Rice.

Camby is and will be outstanding. Abdur-Rahim is and will be outstanding.
I'd take either of 'em in a heart beat.

TTom

      Whats a better front line C/PF/SF:
    	Baker/Camby/Robinson
    
      or
    
    	Dampier/Camby/Robinson???
    
     OK, so Dampier is more of a true center, but is that really a
     more effective front line???
    
    						Tony

      I meant to say for the 2nd scenario:
    
    	Dampier/Baker/Robinson.

If'n you're looking for a real center, which the Bucks should be, Dampier
is their man.

I wouldn't see 'em taking Camby as long as they're paying Big Dog his
millions, which of course is at the heart of the trade rumors.

TTom

thatta boy Jason stir the pot you big wuss. Celts might get a lottery pick
next year from you.......

As for this year, if the run on bigmen gets started early, I would hope
the C's pass on Ray Allen and take either Wallace or Walker preferably
Walker cause of his better playmaking skills. Ray'd be a nice safe pick
but they're already got Williams there and Minor. Both are young both have
shown some promise let em' develop and see what happpens and fix one of the
other holes...........

mike

      I don't understand "Thats whats at the heart of the trade
      rumors."  Are you suggesting they are trading Robinson?
    
    						Tony

Yeah, Tony, that's what I was trying to say.

So far, only rumors but the big attraction with getting rid of the Big
Dog is his salary which would leave room for bringing in a big name.

In other words, after taking Vin Baker and Glen Robinson, the Bucks need
help up front.

TTom

    
      Antoine Walker will look great in a Celtics uniform.

If'n Walker is around and ML don't make the call, then he resets his
goodness meter from the Montross-to-Mavs trade.

TTom

RE: Tony Barbieri

>     OK, so Dampier is more of a true center, but is that really a
>     more effective front line???

Dampier can take the interior banging better than Camby.  Look at what Big
Country did against Camby, then consider that most NBA centers have that
kind of size.  If you think Baker does well as a true center, then yes, I'd
take Camby.  If not, you go for someone Dampier-like.

RE: Mike Childs

>take either Wallace or Walker preferably
>Walker cause of his better playmaking skills.

I honestly haven't seen much of Walker, but Wallace is no slouch as 
a passer...

Sure Wallace is a mighty fine passer too but he doesn't have the creative
mind and overall court vision that I've seen Walker show plus Walker is
younger so probably a better upside.....

 mike

    I don't think Camby will play the "5" in the pros.  He does need to
    develop rebounding skills which he wasn't asked to do much at UMass.
    Also his individual defense in college has to be considered in the
    light of the foul rules in college and number of fouls.  He never
    hardly covered Country in that game.
    
    But you will be right if some schmuck team drafts him and doesn't know
    what to do with him.
    
    I'd prefer John Wallace at number 6, I liked him a lot last year and
    agree with one pundit's opinion that he is the only sure thing at the
    top of the draft.  This draft btw is a god send to the haves like
    Chicago,Seattle,Orlando with projections fe. of McCarty/Delk/Minor down
    there for them to fill a role.

>    I'd prefer John Wallace at number 6, I liked him a lot last year and
>    agree with one pundit's opinion that he is the only sure thing at the
>    top of the draft.

I've been surprised that some have said just the opposite, including him
in the group of "questionables".  I don't know how a player can demonstrate
his abilities more than Wallace did over FOUR YEARS.  The projected top-4
all have some questions, mostly because they haven't been around as long
(Camby to a lesser extent than Marbury, Iverson, Rahim).

With Wallace, I think "what you see is what you get", in its truest form.

Radio report this morning, as well as the ESPN mock draft, have the 
Celtics taking Ray Allen.  If this happens, I will be despondent.  Just
what the Celtics need - another guard.  This would be the type of thing
to make me give up on the Celts for good.

If Antoine Walker, Lorenzen Wright, or John Wallace are still out there, 
there's NO excuse for picking a guard.  Even if rumors of dealing Wesley
as part of a deal to move up are true, they'd need a *point* guard.

And Tony B. - ESPN has the Bucks getting Marbury... :-)

-Roland

I've seen several mock drafts that have Allen going to the Celtics at #6.

In others, when Allen supposedly goes higher, I've seen Antoine Walker
or Erick Dampier.

BTW, over in the Hornets we got us a dispute on Kobe Bryant, whether he
can shoot. Wail, firsted of all, the USA Today is projecting him at Point
Guard!~ Along the way they have this to say about him:

	"Good ballhandler. Goes to the basket well. Not a pure shooter
	and needs to get stronger."

For the code word deficient

	"not a pure shooter" .eqs. "aint got no shot"

And I'll go so far as to say, I'd be happy to go over to ol' Joe Crow's
note and fess up if'n it turns out differently.

TTom

and just to keep ever one guessing, Seattle traded it's firsted round
pick, #28, to Atlanta for their two second rounders, #45 and #47.

Maybe they see some sleepers down there.

TTom

>and just to keep ever one guessing, Seattle traded it's firsted round
>pick, #28, to Atlanta for their two second rounders, #45 and #47.

A great trade - they've got a good team, and are looking to fill a role.
Given the way this draft pans out, they've now got two shots instead of
one.

Since first round picks get 3 year guaranteed contracts, 
Seattle could be saying that a 28th pick isn't worth tying
up the money for that long.

Houston seems to have done the same thing.

Mike

    As Marty Blake is inferring, they can't distinguish too well from the
    20s to 40s anyhow.
    
    What was that Stanford Guard's name?  Brit Williams?

Right now, a couple of them mock draft/projections has the Bugs taking
Vitaly Potapenko at #13, from Wright State who's moved up big time based
on his pre-draft camp play, and Steve Nash at #16, the point guard from
Santa Clara.

I could live with that.

TTom

Nazz, no 11th-hour update of your predictions ?

			1996 NBA DRAFT - FIRST ROUND
    
    1) Philadelphia - Allan Iverson  
    2) Toronto - Rahim
    3) Vancouver - Trade down to get Steve Nash (camby taken in this spot)
    4) Milwaukee - Stephon Marbury 
    5) Minnesota - Antoine Walker
    6) Boston - John Wallace     (please ML Please!!!)
    7) LA Clippers - Ray Allen   
    8) New Jersey - Kerry Kittles  
    9) Dallas -   Eric Damphier
    10) Denver - Samaki Walker  
    11) Golden State - Kobe Bryant
    12) Cleveland - Potapenko (from Wright State!!!)
    13) Charlotte - Jerome Williams
    14) Sacramento - Walter McCarty 
    15) Phoenix -   The Lithuanian 7 Footer.
    
    Chappy

    

>    6) Boston - John Wallace     (please ML Please!!!)

Good Lord, Chappy - are you a convert?

that's just cause a lot of people think he's just like Derrick Coleman.

And Chap, who the Bugs gonna take at 16?

TTom

If I were a betting man, I'd say that Wallace goes no lower than 7.
The Paper Clips will take him.

Loved Bob Ryan's column this morning.  Paraphrased:

	"Celtics are thinking of taking Ray Allen.  Did I miss something?
	 Did John Wallace not kick butt from the first game of the season
	 until the last minute of the national final?"

    
    
       Not a convert but I love Wallace's game. He is gonna be a star in
    this league. Could be the next Barkley.
    
    Wallace WILL NOT FALL OUT OF THE TOP 10.
    
          I'll only be happy with Wallace/Camby or Walker at 6. Ml do the
    right thing!!!!
    
        If he takes that big white guy P{otapoppoppoov from Wright State I
    will have a seizure!
    
          Othella Harrington to the Bugs at 16, Ttom. :-)
    
    
    Chap

So what happens if Philly takes Marbury? Does Isiah go Iverson? Damon and Allan
could do a pretty good intimidation of Isiah and Joe.......Right now the only
thing we seem to have going for us is these overgrown babies (camby and marbury)
have both told Vancover they won't play for them so Celts could move down to 3
and get either one of the babies if Isiah goes Abdul-Rahim and Philly goes
Iverson. Lately we always seem to get who I don't want so "with the sixth pick
in this year's NBA draft the Boston Celtics select Ray Allen of UCoon".

 If Ray Allen's available and passed over than I'll feel the torch has been
 passed. Red would take Allen for the local appeal and try to get the fans
 from Conn. to fill up the F.C.

 mike

    
>    "Celtics are thinking of taking Ray Allen.  Did I miss something?
>    Did John Wallace not kick butt from the first game of the season
>    until the last minute of the national final?"
    
    That's mis-paraphrased, Roland.  Ryan actually likes Allen a lot.
    As well as Antoine Walker.  What he didn't understand was why 
    Wallace wasn't also getting attention, but he wrote that he'd be
    happy with any of the three...
    
    glenn
    

>          Othella Harrington to the Bugs at 16, Ttom. :-)

You'll smoke a turd in Hoboken for that :=]

RE                     <<< Note 278.142 by PECAD8::CHILDS >>>

>.......Right now the only
>thing we seem to have going for us is these overgrown babies (camby and marbury)
>have both told Vancover they won't play for them so Celts could move down to 3
>and get either one of the babies if Isiah goes Abdul-Rahim and Philly goes
>Iverson. 

    Baby n. 1. An infant child. 2. A worker who expresses an opinion on where
    he wants to work.

  Weird definition but if it gets the Celtics Camby then maybe we can hope
for more of these babies.

  George

    I can't see the Celtics trading down to get Allen when Kittles was
    around (possibly) anyway.  I like John Wallace but he may have been
    available at 9 too.  I have to think Camby is who they are after and a
    post draft trade or a trade after Camby's been picked may even happen.
    
    Mikey, I expected better of you.  Why should Camby travel out to
    Vancouver if he doesn't feel like it?  That's the Grizzlies problem;
    the agent said the logistics just didn't fit in.  Btw, has Camby ever
    been in for a Celtics checkout?

    
    	MikeyC. won't change his mind about Camby being a baby cuz
    	he knows I'll be on him like a cheap suit if he holds Marcus
    	to a different standard than he did Elway!  :*)
    
    Claybone

>    That's mis-paraphrased, Roland.  Ryan actually likes Allen a lot.
>    As well as Antoine Walker.  What he didn't understand was why 
>    Wallace wasn't also getting attention, but he wrote that he'd be
>    happy with any of the three...

Stop clouding the issue with facts!  If ML drafts a guard (excepting
Marbury or Iverson if he trades Wesley), he should be publicly hung
in City Hall Plaza...

  Why not The Common?

  George

	For you SWW people (like me), here's the first six.
1)Philly- Allan Iverson
2)Toronto- Marcus Camby (I knew he would'nt fall as low as everyone was
predicting)
3)Vancouver- Rahim
4)Milwaukee- Stephon Marbury(traded to Minn. for Allen and Minn's '97 first
rounder)
5)Minnesota- Ray Allen(traded along with their '97 1st rnd. draft pick to Mil.
for Stephon Marbury)

************ and  for the Celtics, no last minute deal, too bad I wanted Marcus 

6)Boston- Antoine Walker(not bad though)

 Boston Celtics:
Antoine Walker, F, Kentucky (1st Rd, 6)
Steve Hamer, C, Tennessee (2nd, 38)

 Miami Heat:
Traded future first-round pick to Utah for Martin Muursepp,
F, Kalev Talinn Estonia (1st, 25)

 New Jersey Nets:
Kerry Kittles, G, Villanova (1st Rd, 8)

 New York Knicks:
John Wallace, F, Syracuse (1st Rd, 18)
Walter McCarty, F, Kentucky (1st Rd, 19)
Dontae' Jones, F, Mississippi State (1st Rd, 21)

 Orlando Magic:
Brian Evans, F, Indiana (1st Rd, 27)
Amal McCaskill, C, Marquette (2nd Rd, 49)

 Philadelphia 76ers:
Allen Iverson, G, Georgetown (1st Rd, 1)
Mark Hendrickson, F, Washington State (2nd Rd, 31)
Ryan Minor, F, Oklahoma (2nd Rd, 32)
Jamie Feick, C, Michigan State (2nd Rd, 48)

 Washington Bullets:
 Ronnie Henderson, G, LSU (2nd Rd, 55)

 Atlanta Hawks:
 Priest Lauderdale, C,  Peristeri Nikas Greece (1st Rd, 28)

 Charlotte Hornets:
 Kobe Bryant, F, Lower Merion HS (1st Rd, 13)
Tony Delk, G, Kentucky (1st Rd, 16)
Malik Rose, F, Drexel (2nd Rd, 44)

 Chicago Bulls:
 Travis Knight, C, Connecticut (1st Rd, 29)

 Cleveland Cavaliers:
 Vitaly Potapenko, C, Wright State (1st Rd, 12)
Zydrunas Ilgauskas, C, Lithuania (1st Rd, 20)
Reggie Geary, G, Arizona (2nd Rd, 56)

 Detroit Pistons:
 Jerome Williams, F, Georgetown (1st Rd, 26)

 Indiana Pacers:
 Erick Dampier, C, Mississippi State (1st Rd, 10)
Mark Pope, C, Kentucky (2nd Rd, 52)

 Milwaukee Bucks:
 Stephon Marbury, G, Georgia Tech (1st Rd, 4) -
traded rights to Minnesota for Ray Allen, G, Connecticut, and
a future first round pick
Moochie Norris, G, West Florida (2nd Rd, 33)
Jeff Nordgaard, F, Wisconsin-Green Bay (2nd Rd, 53)

 Toronto Raptors:
 Marcus Camby, F, Massachusetts (1st Rd, 2)

 Dallas Mavericks:
 Samaki Walker, F, Louisville (1st Rd, 9)
Shawn Harvey, G, West Virginia State (2nd Rd, 34)
Darnell Robinson, C, Arkansas (2nd Rd, 58)

 Denver Nuggets:
 Efthimis Retzias, C, PAOK Greece (1sd Rd, 23)
Jeff McInnis, G, North Carolina (2nd Rd, 37)

 Houston Rockets:
 Othella Harrington, F, Oklahoma (2nd Rd, 30)
Randy Livingston, G, LSU (2nd Rd, 42)
Terrell Bell, C, Georgia (2nd Rd, 50)

 Minnesota Timberwolves:
 Ray Allen, G, Connecticut, (1st Rd, 5) - traded rights to
Milwaukee for Stephon Marbury, G, and a future first round pick

 San Antonio Spurs:
 None

 Utah Jazz:
 Martin Muursepp, F, Kalev Talinn Estonia (1st Rd, 25) - traded
rights to Miami Heat for future first round pick
Shandon Anderson, F, Georgia (2nd Rd, 54)

 Vancouver Grizzlies:
 Shareef Abdul-Rahim, F, California (1st Rd, 3)
Roy Rogers, F, Alabama (1st Rd, 22)
Chris Robinson, G, Western Kentucky (2nd Rd, 51)

 Golden State Warriors:
 Todd Fuller, F-C, North Carolina State (1st Rd, 11)
Marcus Mann, F, Mississippi Valley State (2nd Rd, 40)

 Los Angeles Lakers:
 Derek Fisher, G, Arkansas-Little Rock (1st Rd, 24)

 Los Angeles Clippers:
 Lorenzen Wright, C-F, Memphis (1st Rd, 7)
Doron Sheffer, G, Connecticut (2nd Rd, 36)

 Phoenix Suns:
 Steve Nash, G, Santa Clara (1st Rd, 15)
Russ Millard, F, Iowa (2nd Rd, 39)
Ben Davis, F, Arizona (2nd Rd, 43)

 Portland Trail Blazers:
 Jermaine O'Neal, F, Eau Claire HS (1st Rd, 17)
Marcus Brown, G, Murray State (2nd Rd, 46)

 Sacramento Kings:
 Predrag Stojakovic, F, PAOK Greece (1st Rd, 14)
Jason Sasser, F, Texas Tech (2nd Rd, 41)

 Seattle SuperSonics:
 Joseph Blair, F, Arizona (2nd Rd, 35)
Joe Vogel, C, Colorado State (2nd Rd, 45)
Ron Riley, G, Arizona State (2nd Rd, 47)
Drew Barry, G, Georgia Tech (2nd Rd, 57)

 Sorry Tony I feel for you. I think the Bucks are going to live to regret this
 trade unless the draft pick turns into Duncan.  Although they might have re-
 covered with Moochie Norris just don't let Sherman Douglas tutor him.....

 very happy about Walker to the C's. Kevin Mchale's not looking to bad as a
 GM. If Marbury doesn't regress and finds a little heart and desire to help
 on D he's got a point guard to win a championship with.

 Steal of the draft: Detroit - Jerome Williams is a player peroid. If it
 wasn't for the brillance of Iverson this guy gets enough ink to go top
 10. No one not even my main Zo has played the game this hard at Georgetown
 since oh Michael Graham.  MVP at the Desert Classic. John Wallace is
 mighty fine player and the Knicks' fan probably think they got the steal
 (TNYIO) but you can't buy/manufacture the heart this kid's got. He's going 
 to be a better pro than probably 15-20 guys that were picked before him.
 Wallace should be thankfull to go the KNicks it's a good fit for him.
 Hometown fans, a chance to develop instead of being the "savior".

 Allan, I'm going to miss you. The only guy who has ever stop you is you!

 mike

Typical Mike Childs bash of Ray Allen....  If Allen matures well, he'll be a
good solid player in the NBA.  You can't dispute it.


Not being really interested, I didn't follow much of this.  However, I'm
curious.  I saw a report that had at least two kids (one of whom must've
studied reading with Donte "Not So" Bright cause he couldn't make the academic
requirements for college) who were high school seniors that were declared for
the draft.

I can't for the life of me remember their names -- was either one taken?

Wallace sliding to 18th stunned me.  I wouldn't be surprised if he busted
his butt to prove people wrong.  I feel kind of badly for him - he may have
gone just as early last year.

Amazingly enough, ML does the right thing.  As much as I love watching
Wallace, Walker was the best big player available.  Steve Hamer isn't 
exactly 'Zo, but with Montross gone they had to take what they could at 
center.

Cleveland fans, what do you think of:
	a) missing out on Todd Fuller
	b) getting two guys who are talented but whose names will be
	     hard to pronounce?

Did the Cavs need to go big with both picks?

And I know what they say about never having too much depth, but if you're the
New York Knicks, why do you draft Dontae' Jones right after you've picked
John Wallace and Walter McCarty?  Is Charlie Ward your point guard of the
future?  And do you have a true center to back up Patrick Ewing?

Warriors get Todd Fuller to go with Joe Smith - very nice, since Smith can
now stay at power forward most of the time.

    
>Cleveland fans, what do you think of:
>	a) missing out on Todd Fuller
    
Eh.  I'm not heartbroken.
    
>	b) getting two guys who are talented but whose names will be
>	     hard to pronounce?

    Just call them Ukraine Train and Iggy... B^)
    
>Did the Cavs need to go big with both picks?

    No, but I'm not sure I mind the choice.  The Cavs now have three
    years to figure out which of them can actually play.  If they both
    can, then you can trade one of them.  But if only one can, then
    you don't have to worry about having made the wrong pick.
    
    Joe
    

 Typical bash? Ray Allen isn't as unstoppable as the state of Conn. thinks.
 Georgetown proved he's containable. He'll be a good pro but Marbury has
 the tools (questionable heart) to be great.

 mike

    
    
    
       Unbelievable that Wallace fell that far. NY Knicks improved
    themselves big time in this draft. Remember they are still 9 Mil under
    the Cap so they can go and get a PG. Reggie Miller or Alan Houston will
    probably be on NY next year.
    
    
           I am very happy with both picks. Love Walker's game and Hamer
    impressed me on ESPN a couple times this year. Just needs a little more
    meat on him!!
    
    Celts B+

    
    
      BTW 'Saw both HS kids went in the 1st round.
    
    
    Chap

>    
>      BTW 'Saw both HS kids went in the 1st round.
>    
    
Wow.....that's pretty incredible.

    
    
    Kobe Bryant went to the Bugs at 13 I think. He will be traded after
    July 1st to the Lakers though. They just couldn't say for who because
    of Cap restrictions.
    
          I think its Ceballos.

	Wasn't there some king of net-bet in this notes conference
	regarding Travis Knight???

	He did get drafted in the first round! And now gets to sit
	on the bench behind Luc Longley and Bill Wennington while
	Mikey and Scottie try for ring number five ...

	And all the talk last night about John Wallace seemed to center
	on his attitude ... bad interviews, blowing teams off, etc ...
	the concencous was that Marbury and Camby were good enough to
	get away with it, but Wallace wasn't ... the other comments about
	him seemed to be "upside potential" - very few of the players
	drafted last night will make an immediate impact, so gm's were
	drafting for the future (like baseball gm's), they were looking
	at players upside's ... I guess they figured with Wallace
	what you see is what you get, that he has "maxed out" ...

	And it looks like Calipari knows where the true talent in college 
	basketball is, drafting a Big East player! :-)

	Three of the first eight players drafted were from the Big East ...

	Three Kentucky players taken in the first round ...

	And why did the Knicks take three forwards??? Deal in the works???
	Rumor on TNT had them going hard for Allan Houston of Detroit
	to fill the shooting guard spot ... may also be looking for a 
	point guard (they still like Harper, but he is getting old) ...

	I like what the Celtics did, they took the best player on the board,
	one with a lot of potential ... then they took a project big man
	in the second round ... and they still have two picks in next years
	first round ...

	Vinny

Chap the Laker trade is for Divac who says that he will retire afore
coming to Charlotte.

Another act of non brilliancy by the Bug Brass. Divac and his agent made
it clear from the get go that they would not come to town. They both
contacted Bass directly and told him this.

Even this morning, they're saying that they told Bass about Divac's stand
and declared the whole deal at risk.

As a Kobe Bryant semi basher I experienced no small irony at his
selection. I went from complete surprise to penciling him in at PG for
nexted season.

As for the other Bugs selection, I like Delk but wonder if'n he can
really play the point. And I think Malik Rose has the potential to be one
of those second round wonders.

TTom

    
      The Celtics finally did something right. Up until the moment
     the pick was announced I was afraid that they'd do something 
     stupid like draft Samaki Walker or trade the pick for John
     Starks and next years second round pick. Antoine will be a 
     player. 
    
    
     BTW - Ray Allen seems to be your typical brainy UConn student.
           "I like Minnesota. It's a nice city." Thank goodness
           Calhoun doesn't burden his kids with having to attend
           classes or they might accidentally learn something like
           that Minnesota is a state.

I think the Celtics got themselves a goodun with Antoine. The whole
Montross to the Mavs thing makes ML look like he knows what he's doing.
Can this be the point at which the Celtics turned the barge around?

TTom

    
    	The 1st round pick involved in the Minnesota/Milwaukee swap
    of Marbury and Allen has restrictions on it. TNT mentioned something
    to the effect, that Milwaukee gets Minnesota's 1st round pick when
    Minnesota makes the playoffs. So it looks like the pick can't be a
    lottery pick.
    
    Ron

The way these things usually work is that there's only one option year.

It looks like 99 is when the option happens. If'n the Twolves make the
playoffs, the Bucks can wait until 00 at which point they will have to
take the pick no mattter. If'n the Twolves don't make it in 99, the pick
goes to the Bucks.

At least that's the way I understood it.

TTom

    Nice cheap shot Tommy.  Allen has a good head on his shoulders, I'm
    sure everyone in here would never make one mistake answering the
    thousand questions that were asked of them yesterday.
    
    Have to love Travis getting that last 3 year guaranteed contract.
    Mikey already stopped by and whined.  
    
    Got a kick out of the guy trying to announce all of the euro's names.
    
    Wallace should have went higher as should of Williams.  Sorry to see
    the Big O drop out of the first round, he's a better player than
    that.
    
    Milw made out like a bandit with the Allen and a first rounder for
    Marbury trade, even if it takes 5 years for Minn to make the playoffs.
    
    Jimbo

 What was the bet Vinny? 

    
    Yeah, I could see Allen saying "I like Minnesota (the team name)...
    it's a nice city".
    
    Regardless, he doesn't have to pretend to like Minnesota any longer,
    but may have a harder time with the state of Milwaukee...
    
    glenn
    

    
   >> Allen has a good head on his shoulders, 
    
      Compared to some of the genetic experiments on your women's
      team I'm sure Ray is a veritable Einstein but most of us
      know that Minnesota ain't no city.
    
    
    
      And what was up with the pathetic display that Stephon Marbury 
      put on. Sobbing and carrying on like a close relative had died.
      "Twenty long years. Twenty long years." What a sad commentary
      on sports and their inflated importance in the lives of inner
      city youth. 

...for best lid of the draft:  Samaki Walker

Now he'll be able to pay off that outfit he was wearing last night.

Hey, Tommy, this is the 90s. It's now a manly thing to do to shed tears.

And for all you doubters, there's not one but two minnesota cities,
sorta.

	55959:Minnesota City, MN
	56068:Minnesota Lake, MN

So there...

>And for all you doubters, there's not one but two minnesota cities,
>sorta.
>
>	55959:Minnesota City, MN
>	56068:Minnesota Lake, MN

You'll have to pry the mouse button off his cold, dead finger...

  >> ...for best lid of the draft:  Samaki Walker
    
     It made him look like Huggy Bear or something but it fits with
     his game - a lot of flash but very little substance. He'll make
     everyone's all-airport team.

>And for all you doubters, there's not one but two minnesota cities,
>sorta.
>
>	55959:Minnesota City, MN
>	56068:Minnesota Lake, MN

     And neither one have anything to do with the T'wolves. Face it,
     Ray might be a scholastic giant down in Storrs but he could
     stand for some geography lessons from Mr T.

I dunno, I can see what Ray Allen said.  I say similar things sometimes.

It's simply a failing to state the logic that the mind leaps over:

	I like Minnesota {here he could be talking about the team, or
	the state}.  It's a nice city {here he could be talking about
	St. Paul or where the hell ever the Twolves play}....


Taken out of context it's impossible to tell.

Wail, it's the same state so I say close enough, especially for a
potential geographical disciple of MrT.

TTom

>I dunno, I can see what Ray Allen said.  I say similar things sometimes.
>
>It's simply a failing to state the logic that the mind leaps over:
>
>	I like Minnesota {here he could be talking about the team, or
>	the state}.  It's a nice city {here he could be talking about
>	St. Paul or where the hell ever the Twolves play}....
>
>
>Taken out of context it's impossible to tell.

'Saw possesssed by the spirit of George Maiewski.  Film at 11...

    
    
    
    'saw and Georgie up in a....

    
      I watched the first 15 or so picks of the draft. After
     Ray Allen was drafted at five (thank you, Kevin McHale.
     I wanted Antoine Walker all along), he was asked what he 
     thought about going to the T'wolves. His reply was "I'm
     happy to be going to Minnesota. It's a great city."

>     thought about going to the T'wolves. His reply was "I'm
>     happy to be going to Minnesota. It's a great city."


At the risk of sounding like George (scary thought I know) what i said is
entirely feasible.

More probably, the young man was thrilled to be drafted and just babbled a bit.


It's not like he can't READ or anything....

    Seems to me Milwaukee, Cleveland, and the Celtics made out the best.
    Both the Bucks and Cavs filled specific needs, and the Celtics simply
    got a player who has unlimited upside potential.  I still have a
    picture of Abdur-Rahim blowing bunnies all night while Cal lost in the
    first round of the NCAAs and he was 1-12 from the field.  Walker seems
    to always play well in the big games, and he is more versatile than
    Shareef.  There is no one, especially those two shrimp point guards,
    that I would trade for Walker in this draft, except Marcus.  And that's
    only a maybe.
    
    NAZZ

    
   >> -< Another great job by ML 
    
      You mean like Domonique and Dana "Booster Chair" Barros?
      Let's not build any monuments yet. 
      

    
    >> At the risk of sounding like George (scary thought I know) what 
    >> i said is entirely feasible.

       You sounded exactly like George. You didn't see it or read about it
       but you were willing to speculate. That'd be George to a tee. BTW -
       where is Georgie? He asked a question about Antoine Walker, I told
       him to read the Globe and he's been gone ever since. If I'd known
       that was all it'd take I'd have suggested he read the Globe a long
       time ago.

>       You sounded exactly like George. You didn't see it or read about it
>       but you were willing to speculate. That'd be George to a tee. BTW -

We're all guilty of that at one time or another.  It's just that some of
us don't make a regular practice of it.


>       where is Georgie? He asked a question about Antoine Walker, I told
>       him to read the Globe and he's been gone ever since. If I'd known
>       that was all it'd take I'd have suggested he read the Globe a long
>       time ago.

Funny, I was thinkin' the same thing.

>Wallace sliding to 18th stunned me.  I wouldn't be surprised if he busted
>his butt to prove people wrong.  I feel kind of badly for him - he may have
>gone just as early last year.

Roland, his comments during the interview are consistent with what we
saw all last year, and back up your statement above:

	"I will prove that I was one of the best players in this draft.
	 It doesn't matter where I was picked."

Also, I agree with you on the possibility that he may have been drafted
in the same spot (best-case) last year.  After the NCAA and media made
him a poster-boy for staying in school and getting your degree, don't
think the HS/college kids didn't notice that there's now some doubt
about whether it really paid off.  I think this, along with Garnett's
success this past season, will open the gates of early-entry even
wider, if that's possible.  Pitino didn't help their cause when part
of his comments on Wallace (taken out of context, but he did say it):

	"...and he'll have the memory of the Final Four."

> Allan, I'm going to miss you. The only guy who has ever stop you is you!

Not bad for a guy who we both acknowledged "wasn't ready for the NBA",
eh MikeyC ?

Why caint the NBA do like MLB?

As I understand it, anyone can be drafted. When drafted you can jump
right in. If'n you go to college you gotta stay 2 years. While in college
you can play in the minors during summers.

I think that's pretty much it and it seems to work without all the
hystrionics about who's too young or stupid to do what.

TTom

>	Wasn't there some king of net-bet in this notes conference
>	regarding Travis Knight???

>	He did get drafted in the first round! And now gets to sit
>	on the bench behind Luc Longley and Bill Wennington while
>	Mikey and Scottie try for ring number five ...


Yeah, I thought he'd slipped right by the 1st round and then Chicago
takes him.  Of course, they've spent a decade acquiring BIG, WHITE
STIFFS to man the middle, so their choosing him shouldn't count.
As my 12-yr-old son said:

	"All they use these guys for is fouls."

>	And all the talk last night about John Wallace seemed to center
>	on his attitude ... bad interviews, blowing teams off, etc ...
>	the concencous was that Marbury and Camby were good enough to
>	get away with it, but Wallace wasn't ...

I'll see if I can find an article I read just the other day about his
visits with teams and post it in here.  It basically contradicts the
above.  It said that he visited the teams drafted #3-8, and limited
it to that because he was told he wouldn't slip past 8.

Whether he blew interviews, we don't know, but I doubt teams passed
on him because he didn't come visit them.  Do you think people would
have passed on Iverson had Philly chosen Marbury instead ?  Afterall,
he cancelled all other visits after visiting them...


>	at players upside's ... I guess they figured with Wallace
>	what you see is what you get, that he has "maxed out" ...

That could be, but I think it would be an incorrect assumption after
seeing the leap he made this past season.

I'm an SU fan, so I'm biased, but I said it before, this kid is the
best OVERALL player (including MikeyC's comment about heart) to ever
play at SU.  And he's coachable, something Coleman never was.  He's
better than most of the people taken in front of him.

    
> As I understand it, anyone can be drafted. When drafted you can jump
> right in. If'n you go to college you gotta stay 2 years. While in college
> you can play in the minors during summers.
    
    Only if you're playing another sprot in college (very unusual, but 
    some minor-leaguers are playing college football).
    
    Cain't see the NBA going for the same deal that MLB accepts-- if the
    player goes on to college, the drafting team loses rights after one
    year-- powerful leverage.
    
    glenn
    

   ESPNET SportsZone | NBA | DraftTracker
   
                      WHO MAKES THE GRADE? THE ZONE KNOWS
                                       
   By Howie Schwab
   ESPNET SportsZone
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   Which teams fared well in Wednesday night's NBA draft? Which teams
   struggled? Of course, there will be a few trades that will impact the
   success or failure of each club. In today's NBA, salary-cap
   restrictions also dictate the draft.
   
   But for now, here's a team-by-team analysis with each club's early
   grade:
   
   Atlanta: C+
   The Hawks made a fine deal to move into the first round. Priest
   Lauderdale is worth the risk after gaining experience in Greece.
   Drafting size that late in the first round also makes sense. The
   selection of Lauderdale should allow Christian Laettner to move to
   power forward.
   
   Boston: A
   Antoine Walker has the potential to be the best player to come out of
   this draft ... write that down and remember it in two or three years.
   He has all of the moves and will have more of a chance to score in the
   pros than he did in Rick Pitino's system at Kentucky. Center Steve
   Hamer was the top offensive threat at Tennessee, so he could
   materialize, but will probably still take a couple of years to
   improve.
   
   Charlotte: B
   The book is still out because first-rounder Kobe Bryant could be
   dealt. If not, the Hornets will be patient with the 17-year-old. Tony
   Delk could be tried at point guard, but that experiment didn't go well
   in college. Delk is strong and can shoot. It's a bit of a surprise
   that Dave Cowens didn't improve his frontcourt with a handful of big
   forwards available in the first round. Malik Rose is a workhorse whose
   physical nature offsets his lack of height; Cowens will probably keep
   him on the roster to bang bodies in practice.
   
   Chicago: C
   Travis Knight will be a reserve center for quite a while. He needs to
   bulk up to compete in the NBA. This probably means aging veterans John
   Salley and James Edwards won't be back.
   
   Cleveland: C+
   Vitaly Potapenko and Zydrunas Ilgauskas provide size, which the
   Cavaliers needed. With Brad Daugherty's career likely over, Mike
   Fratello's team felt like it had to fill a void. Potapenko played well
   in the Chicago pre-draft camp, but there wasn't great competition
   there. We'll have to see how Ilgauskas adjusts to the physical style
   of the NBA. Reggie Geary is a Fratello-type player; an exceptional
   defender.
   
   Dallas: B
   Samaki Walker will get better with time. He's a physical player who
   will mature and improve. The Mavericks were supposedly interested in
   John Wallace but passed on him to take the Louisville star. He could
   be eased in with Popeye Jones ahead of him. Shawn Harvey is a sleeper
   whose stock rose dramatically. Darnell Robinson never reached his
   potential in college, and he was lucky to go the final pick of the
   draft. Then again, Lorenzo Williams started in the middle for the Mavs
   last season.
   
   Denver: B
   Efthimis Retzias was a sensible first-round pick. The Nuggets needed
   some form of insurance in case free-agent center Dikembe Mutombo
   doesn't re-sign. Denver wanted North Carolina point guard Jeff McInnis
   and got lucky that he lasted as long as he did. The ESPNET mock draft
   had McInnis to Denver in round one. The grade is knocked down a notch
   because Denver could have had the 10th overall pick but traded down as
   part of the Mark Jackson deal.
   
   Detroit: B
   Georgetown forward Jerome Williams slid down a bit and the versatile
   player should help out Doug Collins' team. He's a solid ball-handler
   for a player his size.
   
   Golden State: C+
   Todd Fuller is overrated and probably shouldn't have gone as high as
   No. 11. Marcus Mann could be a pleasant surprise for the Warriors,
   helping out on the boards.
   
   Houston: B+
   The Rockets were smart to move out of the first round, allowing room
   under their salary cap. Othella Harrington could be a more productive
   pro compared to his collegiate career. Teaming with Hakeem Olajuwon
   will help him; Harrington can stick jump shots, too. Randy Livingston
   is an intelligent guard whose bad knees make him suspect. If he could
   stay healthy, he'd be the biggest steal by far. Terrell Bell is a
   physical backup who could challenge for the 11th or 12th man position.
   It's surprising Bell went before Georgia teammates Carlos Strong and
   Shandon Anderson.
   
   Indiana: B
   Erick Dampier could serve as insurance if Antonio and Dale Davis (not
   related) leave via free agency. Dampier slid down a bit. Mark Pope
   could challenge Scott Haskin for a job.
   
   L.A. Clippers: C+
   Lorenzen Wright will need time to mature, though the potential to
   succeed is there. Remember, Brian Williams is a free agent, and Loy
   Vaught could be a free agent after this season. Doron Sheffer could be
   a pleasant surprise at No. 36. Sheffer provides maturity and
   leadership on a team which needs help.
   
   L.A. Lakers: B
   Derek Fisher is a typical Jerry West pick ... a bit of a surprise for
   that high. In a couple of years, the Arkansas-Little Rock guard will
   be a contributor.
   
   Miami: C+
   The Heat didn't have a pick in this draft until trading with Utah,
   acquiring the rights to first-round pick Martin Muurseep. Chris
   Wallace is an intelligent scouting personality, and he has something
   up his sleeve. Giving up a future first-round choice in a weaker draft
   makes sense, though we'll have to see what Muurseep brings to the
   table.
   
   Milwaukee: B+
   The Bucks almost filled their need at point guard with Stephon
   Marbury; then they traded his rights for Ray Allen! Adding Allen gives
   Milwaukee a good outside shooter to team up with Glenn Robinson and
   Vin Baker. Moochie Norris slipped out of the first round and could be
   a steal with the 33rd pick. The Bucks also added a future first-round
   choice in the Allen-Marbury deal. Former Wisconsin Green-Bay star Jeff
   Nordgaard will be popular with local fans.
   
   Minnesota: B 
   Stephon Marbury teams up now with Kevin Garnett. The Timberwolves
   needed a point guard, and he fills the need. It may take a year or two
   to reach his potential, though he'll be fun to watch as a rookie.
   
   New Jersey: B
   Kerry Kittles was the safe pick to debut the John Calipari era. Taking
   a senior, a player who has performed close to the New Jersey area for
   four years, will allow for an easier adjustment period. The grade is
   lowered a drop because he was the team's lone pick.
   
   New York: A
   The Knicks added three solid players who could be around for years.
   Dontae' Jones was worth the risk; some have questioned his status due
   to an injury. New York was probably shocked that Wallace slipped as
   far as he did. It was a bit surprising that New York didn't pick a
   guard; that's where free agency could pay off.
   
   Orlando: C+
   Brian Evans could help out with his outside shooting; coming from
   Bobby Knight's program gives him an edge since intensity won't be a
   problem. Amal McCaskill of Marquette has limited offensive skills, but
   he could be a reserve in a defensive role; he provides some size.
   
   Philadelphia: A
   Johnny Davis should have an interesting time handling the egos. Allen
   Iverson was not a surprise as the overall first choice, and he will be
   a productive pro. His speed and desire make him an immediate impact
   player. Adding Mark Hendrickson and Ryan Minor provides solid depth to
   a team that needed help. Both of those second-round choices will make
   a contribution. Jamie Feick could push for a spot on the bench.
   
   Phoenix: B
   Steve Nash's stock rose steadily, and he could provide both outside
   shooting and solid passing. Russ Millard is a bit slow, but his
   physical nature could make up for that. Ben Davis could be a surprise
   if he reports in shape.
   
   Portland: C+
   High schooler Jermaine O'Neal was a gamble worth taking; he could pan
   out in a few years. Marcus Brown is a scorer who could surprise; his
   size is the reason why he went midway through the second round. The
   Blazers are reportedly considering a number of trades -- Isaiah Rider
   could end up in a Portland uniform shortly after the draft.
   
   Sacramento: C+
   Predrag Stojakovic has potential, but it might take time to adjust to
   the different style of play. Jason Sasser is a physical specimen who
   can rebound, much like Michael Smith.
   
   San Antonio: F
   The Spurs didn't have a pick.
   
   Seattle: D
   The Sonics picked a few ordinary Joes -- Joseph Blair and Joe Vogel in
   the second round. The athletic Ron Riley might be the best of the
   team's four second-rounder. Drew Barry was a popular choice at No. 57,
   though his stock clearly dropped.
   
   Toronto: C+
   Isiah Thomas said Marcus Camby was his kind of player, and he backed
   up his words by choosing the Massachusetts All-America over Shareef
   Abdur-Rahim. Last year, Thomas tabbed Damon Stoudamire and ended up
   with the Rookie of the Year. With Oliver Miller as a free agent, Camby
   could end up in the pivot, though he's probably better suited for a
   power forward slot. Personally, I wonder if the thin Camby can take
   the physical pounding for 82 games.
   
   Utah: D
   Trading out of the first round for a future pick in a lesser draft was
   questionable. Shandon Anderson could make the Jazz roster.
   
   Vancouver: B+
   Shareef Abdur-Rahim gives Vancouver a much-needed power forward who
   can run the court. He has All-Star potential within his first few
   years. The Grizzlies were happy to see Camby go at No. 2 since the
   UMass star didn't really want to go to Vancouver. The Grizzlies were
   also smart enough to move up to the 22nd pick in the first round,
   grabbing Roy Rogers. The Alabama forward can block shots and rebound,
   but his knees are questionable. Chris Robinson will make this team in
   the backcourt at No. 51.
   
   Washington: C
   Not much was expected picking 55th. Ronnie Henderson was projected as
   a late first or early second, so he could be a steal.

    I wonder if ML would've have taken Allen over Walker if given a choice.
    I liked Walker but personally would've have taken Wallace which of
    course in hindsight would've have made the trade look questionable.
    
    Is this the Death Knell of College Basketball as we know it.  From this
    point on the high school seniors are going to be entering the draft in
    force and no later than after their freshman year.  Ray Mercer
    currently at Kentucky is better than Walker,Allen etc right now and
    better prepared to step into the pros.
    
    Ironically given the above John Walker improved himself by staying in
    college and is a sensational steal for the Knicks and playing in New
    York he has set himself up for the big paydays to offset the pittance
    he lost last night by dropping 10 spots.
    
    Okay someone had to say it.  The player Antoine Walker reminds me of
    the most is Dominique Wilkins.  But that's in terms of potential, he's
    a long way from that right now.

>    Seems to me Milwaukee, Cleveland, and the Celtics made out the best.

I agree with Boston and Milw, but think NY had a much better draft than
Cleveland.  Nazz, SURPRISE !, I agree that Walker is the odds-on-favorite
to be the best player in this draft.  And getting Allen and a #1 next
year for Marbury was a great move by Milw.  But, I think John Wallace may
be among the top-5 in this draft, making his selection at 18 a potentially
HUGE windfall for NY.  McCarty will be a solid contributor in the NBA.
He has the right physical stats and game for the NBA.  He also comes from
a winning program.  Dontae Jones has scoring talent, no doubt.  But I'm
not convinced he'll make it.  Still, not a bad player at 21.

    
    Not only can this guy judge minor league baseball talent, but he's also
    a wizard in the NBA draft.
    
    <<< Note 278.141 by WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M "Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!!" >>>
    
    >Wallace WILL NOT FALL OUT OF THE TOP 10.

Uh, Groaner, this has already been covered in the Crow note.

But thanks for your investigative help.

    The reason I like Cleveland's draft so much is that unlike the Knicks,
    they got excellent players who filled specific needs.  Michael Cage was
    the Cavs starting center last year.  He's a nice player, but only 6-9
    and he's about 100 years old.  Tyrone Hill didn't regain his former
    prowess after the car accident.  They have no backups.  Ptoapenko is a
    legitimate monster at 6-10 290, and can score inside, something I don't
    think the Cavs have had since the latter dayts of Nate Thurmond's
    career.  Ilgauskas is considered the best pure center prospect in the
    draft.  And I love Reggie Geary - his style of play is perfect for the
    Cavs.  He and Bobby Sura will make an excellent 2nd team backcourt.
    
    NAZZ

    
    
    Nazz, I was thrilled with the results of the NBA draft.  Cleveland
    helped themselves significantly.  Best part about it is, they have
    2 #1's again next year.
    
    I still think New York helped themselves as well.
    
    

      Back after a small vacation...
    
      I guess one can't say the Bucks did not fare well, but I was
      intrigued about them having Marbury and am not intrigued about
      them having Allan.  We'll see.
    
      I am confused about the terms for the #1.  Someone here said
      the Bucks get to not take the Wolves '99 pick IF it is NOT a
      lottery pick.  I also thought I heard the opposite.  That is,
      if the '99 is a lottery pick, the Wolves get to hold off and give
      the Bucks the 2000 pick.
    
      I'm actually disappointed as I wanted Marbury, but it looks good
      neverthless.
    
      I can't comprehend Wallace going as low as he went.
    
    						Tony
             

>      I can't comprehend Wallace going as low as he went.

Tony, some more stuff has come out on this.

At first glance, this seemed a case of Wallace being considered to be the
equivalent of Derrick Coleman.

Wail, it seems that Wallace may have some of that. The guy on 1-on-1
sports reminded me of the finger to the ref after he fouled out in the
championship game.

Then supposedly, Wallace and/or his agent called most of the teams in the
league and told 'em to not bother inviting Wallace to town cause he
wasn't gonna go. Evidently, Wallace considered himself a lock for a top
10 pick.

Then, seemingly continuing with this belief, Wallace showed up for the
pre-draft camps in manner that was described as "surly".

With that said, I still don't see why he lasted to 18. I was rootin him
on for the Bugs second pick at 16 where they took Delk.

TTom

    Lang is the "draft pick" and he goes from Minn to Milw. for said pick.
    
    Wallace is a better player right now than say Antoine Walker.

>    Wallace is a better player right now than say Antoine Walker.

We shall see, won't we.

      Who the heck is Lang???  Can you give a quick bio
      of the guy?  I don't know nuthin' about him!

    Andrew Lang, about 6'11' currently with Minnesota played I believe for
    Atlanta.  Reported to be dissatisfied with Wolves.  Apparently the
    trade was made but couldn't be recorded because of the 7/1 freeze so
    they disguised it as a #1 pick.
    
    This is not a case of Lang ever being considered the equal of a #1 pick
    but was a closer chip.  Allen personally was dumbfounded that any team
    would trade him straight up for the likes of Marbury plus a #1.  I'd
    guess one of the tandem of Allen/Kittles is a possible 20pt scorer this
    year although there's still only one ball out in Milwaukee.

    
    	This weekend's Peter May column in the Globe, said that John
    Wallace blew off the Celtics twice when the asked him to come to
    Boston to workout and be interviewed. He apparantly did this with
    a lot of teams. In everybodys mock drafts they had Wallace going
    no lower then 10th, if the Celtics had the 9th pick and didn't
    move up, they probably would have taken him at #9, even though
    he wouldn't interview with them. Peter May still can't believe he
    slipped to #18 and the Knicks.
    	Also the Knicks brought Dontae' Jones in on Friday and had the
    team physician replace the broken screw in Jones foot. Jones will
    need 3-4 months to recover, Checketts told Jones to take his time
    and don't worry about be ready for training camp. Which is the smart
    thing to do, all #1 picks are guaranteed 3 years money. So you might
    as well not rush them back from injury in there 1st year.
    
    Ron

re: Wallace

Ron, Mike, these are just the sort of stories that are starting to come
out. I still wish the kid all the best and I'm looking forward to seeing
how good he really is but it seems that the ol' woe is me just cause you
think I'm Derrick Coleman schtick might just have some truth to it.

TTom

      Well, I've thought about it and I think the Bucks BLEW it.
      C and PG are the hardest positions to satisfy.  2G and small
      forward the easiest.  Respert has to be given some more 
      oppurtunity (in my mind).
    
      Marbury has the potential to be the PG for a team for the
      next 15 years.
    
      They blew it bigtime.
    
    						Tony

I agree Tony and the Bucks may not be the onliest ones singing the blues
about thised draft.

Suppose Kobe Bryant becomes the nexted Michael Jordan? Charlotte is about
due for another major debacle like that.

As for Marbury vs Allen, it'd be a_easy decision for me: Marbury. He
played in the ACC so no contest.

TTom

    
    Suppose Kobe Bryant becomes the next Bill Willoughby.  The video they
    had of Bryant in high school, didn't indicate to me that the guy was
    anywhere near being ready to play in the NBA.  So he gets signed for
    3 years for big bucks, learns how to play the game, and in his 4th
    year when he's a free agent, he may be able to contribute - but not
    necessarily for the team that drafted him.
    

Wail, that's the rub of the way the new rookie contracts are set up.

You get the guy for 3 years and then he's a_unrestricted free agent and
headed to the highest bidder.

TTom

    
    Which is exactly why drafting Kobe Bryant was not smart in my opinion.
    He is nowhere near being ready - he may have been a star in high
    school, but guarding or driving past MJ is another story - or any of
    the other guards in the league.  Heck, the 3rd and 4th guards on teams
    will be schooling Bryant for the next 3 years.
    

    I would like to disagree about the Bucks draft.  IMO, they got a point
    guard in the second round in Moochie Norris who is more ready to step
    in and play right away than Marbury.Moochie played four years of
    college ball, not one, and was spectacular in all the postseason camps.
    
    The Bucks were also weak at shooting guard - Johnny Newman is more of a
    small forward, and Shawn Respert was a bust.  Sherm still has a few
    mediocre years left in him, so PG wasn't their highest priority.  Also,
    they have six free agents this year, and they probably won't sign any
    of them.  I predict they'll make a big push for local lad Jim
    McIlvaine.
    
    NAZZ

Nazz,

I forgot about ol' Moochie. The Hornets who are still desparately seeking
some help at point guard talked him up a bit when it looked like they
might lose Nash between #13 and #16, which they did to the Suns.

For some reason they decided to go with Delk who already showed he won't
or caint play the point.

TTom

      Nazz,
    
        Is Respert really a bust?  Does one year make a player?
    
        The Bucks have a history of giving up on players who have
        turned out rather well.  One example is one of the two starting
    	guardds for the Cavaliers (forget which one).  A glaring example
     	is Alex English who toiled in Milwaukee for something like three
     	years, was given up on, and blossomed into a fine player.
    
    	I guess I am saying, especially as being a Bucks fan, that I
    	wouldn't want to give up on Respert.
    
        Who is this Moochie guy by the way?  Where did he go to school.
    
        I also think Groaner has a good point.  What happens after three
        years with Marbury especially in consideration that the 1st two
    	years at least have to be purely developmental.
    
        (I can't believe Groaner actually said something that didn't cause 
        putrefying effects in my innards!!!)
    
    						Tony

A capsule:

   MOOCHIE NORRIS
  
   [IMAGE] Born: 7-27-73, Washington, D.C.
   High school: Cardoza (Washington, D.C.)
   College: West Florida
   Height: 6-1
   Weight: 175
   1995-96 stats: 23.6 ppg, 8.9 apg
   Profile: Fantastic crossover dribble. . . . May be the most
   accomplished point guard available. . . . Spent two seasons at Odessa
   (Texas) JC and one at Auburn before transferring to West Florida for
   his senior year. . . . Excels at getting past the defender into the
   paint and then finding the open man. . . . His performance at the
   postseason draft camps has raised his stock.
   
from a Sportszone projection of the draft

   If the Rockets go for the best player available, they might grab West
   Florida's Moochie Norris as a possible replacement for free-agent
   point guard Kenny Smith.

from a Sportszone grading of the draft

   Vin Baker. Moochie Norris slipped out of the first round and could be
   a steal with the 33rd pick. The Bucks also added a future first-round

    
    	Milwaukee made the trade for Ray Allen before the 1st round of the
    draft was even half over. They had no idea at the time that PG
    Moochie Norris would still be available. So they lucked out so to speak
    that he slipped to the 2nd round.
    
    Ron