Conference hbahba::cam_sports

    Duke lost yesterday to Georgia Tech.  Some bad decisions by Hurley in
    the last minute cost them the game, although I must admit that GT
    played an excellent game throughout. Could be a blessing in disguise,
    but it surley hurts when the loss is to a conference oponent.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    	I guess the flu must've hit the North Carolina squad this weekend.
    
    				/Don

    As the only noter in these parts who can rightfully claim the sacred
    text "ACC" in his name, it was only fitting that I should be courtside 
    for yesterdays Duke @ GaTech yesterday.  
    
    Observations?  Wail, Tech played an absolutely sensational game,
    utilizing the home crowd to its fullest capabilities.  Duke appears
    less versatile than in years past.  At crunch time, it was Hurley or
    Grant Hill, ... and that's it.  [However, those 2 alone could
    potentially give the dreaded Devils a 3rd Title. :^(]  The most
    shocking aspect of the game was the "coming out" of Drew Barry and
    Maurtice Moore.  They were the difference for the Jackets down the
    stretch.  
    
    Obviously Tech is on a major up-note after this game and will be primed
    for Carolina on Wednesday (@ Chapel Hill).  [Sadly the "wine and cheese"
    crowd at the Dean Dome won't even come *close* to providing the support
    that Tech received yesterday.  I'm still not hearing too well today -
    what a crowd!]   Tech is capable of going very big on their frontline. 
    In the early going they were main-handling Duke with Newbill, Forrest
    (a mainly main if there ever was one) and Mackey.  I thought Bobby
    would've done himself well to go with this lineup more, but for some
    reason he abandoned it.  (Newbill only play 9 minutes despite starting
    the game and playing well.  He was *STEAMING* on the bench.)  I hope
    Cremins does this again vs. Carolina, cause that kinda frontline could
    do some real damage against the inside-oriented Tar Heels.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Hey Bill_g,
    
    Travis did OK for himself too!
    
    Congrats.
    
    I remain,
    not suprised the 'jackets beat the nerds!
    Kev
    

    
    re: Kev
    
    	Travis had a good first half then disappeared in the second.  I
    was disappointed that Cremins sat him out for 8 minutes in the first
    half too.  I thought since he was playing well, he would of put him
    back in with about 3 to go.
    
    	Secondly, I don't know what's the problem, but Travis never
    had a problem with foul trouble while in HS, but now he seems to be
    developing a bad habit of stupid fouls which in turn will kill his
    team and his development.
    
    	I thought when he got his fourth that from then on, he was walking
    on glass cause he never looked to take the ball to the hoop once. 
    Instead, it was Drew Barry that took the ball to the hoop.
    
    	Anyway, Travis played pretty well considering he is only a soph.
    and he was playing against the No. 1 team and against the No.1 point
    in the country.  We'll see if he can turn it up a notch against NC
    tomorrow night and avoid those stupid fouls.
    
    
    bill..g.
    

    > Secondly, I don't know what's the problem, but Travis never had a
    > problem with foul trouble while in HS, ...
    
    That's cause all the refs had anointed Travis with "Walk on Water"
    status in HS and weren't calling anything on him.
    
    Heh haw!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Cremins decision to sit Travis for the rest of the first half was a
    good one.  Even though Tech started to crumble with him outa there
    (offense really bogged down, nobody wanted to play the point) they were
    able to maintain a lead.  *IF* Duke had caught up in the first half and
    started to pull ahead you can be sure Best would've been back in ASAP.
    
    The fourth foul whistled at the 9:00 minute mark was courtesy of the
    worst referee on the planet, Lenny Wertz.  This man is atrocious, as
    any ACC fain will testify to.  His call on Travis was at least 2 or 3
    dribbles late, and a review of the tape shows that Hurley was clearly
    moving.  True to form though, Lenny had to grab the spotlight and make
    the "big" call.  The man is way past his prime (I'll contend he never
    had a prime), and proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that officiating
    assignments are handed out by seniority and not performance.  [Wertz
    gets all the big games. :^(]
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    re: Travis
    
    	Yea Chris, I was part of that clan that annointed Travis...NOT!
    He simply never committed the fouls although he did used to pick up
    one or two player control fouls which is understandable given his
    driving ability.  In fact, in his soph. year, he fouled out of the
    state final on a close, either-way, block/charge and of course,
    he was the offensive player.  So, I don't think it has anything to
    do with the fact that he was protected.  I can't say that he didn't
    get a call or two, but he was never protected.
    
    	Secondly, I thought his 4th was the blocking foul on that fast
    break?  I remember saying to myself was that his 3rd or 4th (I was
    taking down the Christmas tree) when I heard them say it was his
    4th.  Anyway, he simply made some stupid decisions on defense which
    I hope will help him stay out of trouble as he gains more experience.
    He also IMO, didn't really take charge in the way I had hoped when
    Tech was running out of gas midway through the second half.  I thought
    he should of tried to penetrate and create something rather than simply
    work the ball around the 3 point arc.
    
    	Anyway, I'm probably being to critical, but I just want the kid
    to prove a lot of people they were wrong in saying that Travis was
    to small and that he would fail at the big dances.  Like I said, he's
    a nice kid that is unselfish and will do what the coach asks.  He is
    not a lone ranger in any sense of the word.  We'll just have to see
    if he can continue to improve his play.  Bottom line is that Tech
    is winning with him at the helm and just knocked off No.1.  So, it
    can't be all that bad.
    
    bill..g.
    

    Best made the absolute correct decision in the 2nd half against Duke to
    *NOT* drive to the basket.  Why?  Cause it likely would've fouled him
    outof the game and thereby eliminating any chance Tech had of winning
    the game.  As to him picking up lots of cheap fouls, that may be
    partially true, but remember:
    
    1. He's only a sophomore
    2. Cremins gives the kid absolutely no rest.  Hence he's on the floor
       more; hence his chances increase of picking up more fouls. 
       ('Specially when you start getting fatigued ...)
    
    Overall I'd say you've got some sorta inferiority complex on Travis. 
    Nobody in Atlanta is complaining about him.  In fact, quite the
    opposite.  He's worked himself into a top-notch scorer who cain also
    handle the (intense) pressures that go along with being a PG in the
    ACC.  Bringing the ball up the floor against the BobHurley's and
    DerrickPhelps of the world is no picnic.
    
    One_a_the Atlanta Constitution sports writers did a column on Tech 
    recently and moaned about the fact that Cremins was putting too much 
    scoring burden on Best and that others had better belly-up if the Jackets 
    are gonna go anywhere.  An accurate piece of writing as it turns out, 
    cause a couple of folks other than Travis *did* belly-up against Duke!
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    Great win for Tech at the Dome. Let's hope they repeat at the faux-Dome
    tomorrow. I'm sure it will be 8 on 5 again as the pro Duke/UNC refs are
    always present in the ACC. ;^) If the 23-1 first half FTA advantage in
    Duke's favor (on the road, no less), Tech would have had a 20+ point
    advantage at halftime instead of 7. Tech dominated in the first half,
    but was outplayed in the second.
    
    In a belated carryover from our disagreement in sports_91, UNChris,
    Cremins biggest problem is NOT underdeveloping his bench. His problem
    is that he focuses on 1-2 blue chippers every year during recruiting
    and fills his roster with meat, sometimes buddies of his bluechippers,
    sometimes local heroes and sometimes sons of old buddies. As a result,
    he can usually only put 5 or 6 good players on the court over the
    course of a game. Contrast this to your man Deano who usually has 10-12
    blue chip studs in the stable, or Mike Kruschevski who has to turn them
    away at the door. Hence the famous "thin gold line" of studs and duds.
    
    What he needs to do is recruit some of those "Top 200" types to go
    along with his "Top 25" horses. This year he's lucky that Barry and
    Hill (a JUCO xfer) are playing above expectations and Moore is
    contributing right away.
    
    Tech's only loss to date is to #1 Kentucky. Although the Duke win was
    nice, their performance on the road will be the key. Still, it's nice
    sitting on top of the ACC, even if for only 3 days.
    
    GTChris

    
    re: Chris
    
    	I'm not being critical of Travis.  To bad NOTES is only a one 
    dimensional thing.  If anything, I have been one of Travis' biggest
    supporters around here.  When I saw the kid in Jr. High, I said that
    if he improved, he had a chance.  Over the years, I've also said that
    he is quite possibly the best player I have seen play in HS.  I did
    the JV game the night he went off for 81 points and I can tell you 
    that it was something to behold.
    
    	As I've said all along, I simply want Travis to succeed.  I believe
    he is on the doorstep to a fine career in College and into the Pro
    ranks.  And for what it's worth, I'm with you in that quite possibly,
    Cremins is/has put to much pressure on Travis to do all these things.
    
    	As for his performance, it was good.  He just made some silly
    fouls that only experience will cure.  Other than that, I think he
    is doing very well.
    
    bill..g.
    

    As to the comment about the scoring burden being on Best, James Forrest 
    is, or was as of Sunday, the leading scorer in the ACC. The frontline
    play of Forrest and Mackey has opened up the floor for Best to get more
    opportunities.

    re: Mr.Reeve
    
    Cremins has one blue-chipper who's got cob-webs connecting him to his
    spot at the end of the bench.  Daryl Barnes came in with Mackey and was
    *highly* touted.  Unfortunately for him, he's been in Bobby's doghouse
    ever since.  Ivano Newbill's another top-notch talent who sees very
    limited action.  Sunday against Duke he started the game and played
    well, forcing Duke into a very difficult matchup problem.  (They were
    getting *destroyed* on the glass on their way to an 0-12 start.)  When
    it was all said and done, Ivano had logged a total of NINE (9) minutes.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Daryl Barnes was highly touted but has contributed nothing. Cremins
    recruited him because he's a great leaper and physical specimen, in
    hopes that he could learn how to play basketball. He was a great shot
    blocker in high school, buddy of Kenny Anderson, and has been a
    complete flop in college. He has gotten lots of minutes in non-ACC
    games and has consistently produced very little.
    
    Newbill is much more of a factor as a rebounder and on D. He has very
    few offensive skills, not too surprising since he didn't play
    basketball until his junior year in high school. He is a favorite
    target of the refs and is always in foul trouble. I don't see how you
    can say he is underutilized since he's the starting center and was one
    of the first guys off the bench last year. His minutes went down Sunday
    because Mackey can slide over to center (he's 6'10") and Moore comes
    into the ballgame, adding quickness, more offense, and solid defense.
    Like I said, Cremins has more depth this year than in the past.
    
    Chris
    
    ps- I've never heard Barnes referred to as a bluechipper. As best as I
    recall, he was rated about 50th best forward in high school or maybe
    lower. Hardly a McDonald's choice. 
     

	ACChris, Newbill himself admits that he just looses concentration
	what out on the floor and that he needs to work on it.  It happens
	just about every single game.  He doesn't get as much playing time
	because he puts himself into bad situations on the court because
	he just doesn't pay attention to fulfulling his role and being in
	position during the game.  He himself admits that he has a lot of
	work in this area.

To all who are concerned:

Newbill's biggest mistake was not going to No Carolina. If'n he had he
woulda made millions in the NBA. As it is now, he has very little hope of
even getting drafted no matter how great he turns things around.

We all remember the sad case of Walt Williams.

Speaking of the ACC, the conference made up of 9 institutions of higher
learning that Chris Knorr never attended, Sidney Lowe of NC State's 1983
National Championship, is the interim manager of the Minnesota
Timberwolves. Ex-Celtic Jimmy Rogers was fired and now Sidney is coaching
among others Thurl Bailey, also from that championship team. FWIW, the
other major player on that team, Derek Wittenberg, is coaching at
Colorado.

TTom

    
    Yabbut I'm not sure if'n this should be in the B-E note where the 
    LDUC of 5 vs. 4 is going on or the collidge basketaball note or here
    but what the heck!
    
    I seem to recall that of the entire top 25 collidge basketball teams in
    the country, the only team with a "zero" (0) in the loss column is
    Bob Hunt's Virginia team!
    
    I don't remember if they're ranked 9th or 14th.
    
    I remain,
    whatever
    Kev
    

    Nice matchup tonight in Chapel Hill as the confident Yellow Jackets
    come to town.  Gametime is 8:00pm and I'll be TV-side with my
    brandy-new 27" RCA!  (Insert thousands of smily faces.  My old set was
    gettin' so bad I couldn't see jersey numbers.)
    
    Keys to the game?  The usual stuff.  For GaTech:
    
    o They gotta stay outof foul trouble - especially Travis Best.
    
    o Use their big baseline to neutralize Montross/Lynch.  This
      could force UNC to the outside where shooting (other than Donald
      Williams) is suspect.
    
    o Control tempo.  They cannot win a game in the 90's or above, IMO.
    
    o Be winning or within a bucket or 2 at halftime.  Dean
      shuffles the boys in and out constantly in the first half.  This 
      can often lead to disrupted continuity and failure to put a game
      away early.  However the 2nd half sees far less substituting and
      much better continuity.  Generally if UNC is up at the half, they're
      gonna win the game.
    
    UNC must:
    
    o Push tempo.
    
    o Work the ball inside in halfcourt offense to get Tech in foul trouble.
    
    o Not let Travis shoot open 3's
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Yabbut the 7:00PM ESPN game has:
    
    Duke @ Wake Forest.
    
    Does TBS have the Gt-NC game?
    
    I remain,
    wondering (again)
    Kev
    

    Sorry Kev, you're likely outa luck unless you've got a dish.  Tech@UNC
    is on the ACC Sports Network and ain't being picked up by ESPN.
    
    Not that Duke@Wake shouldn't be a bad affair, either ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Clinical win for the Heels at the DeanDome lasted night.  A 13-point
    "W" but the fact is UNC controlled the 2nd half from the get-go. 
    Phelps/Lynch combined for 40 over Carolina's 80 points.
    
    With Kentucky having lost, Carolina can make a legitimate
    claim for #1 in the country if they beat Clemson Satursday (on the
    road).  Not bad for the recruiting class that's supposedly
    underachieved (ha!).
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Bob Hunt's Virginia beat Clemson lasted night, 100-82.
    
    They now own the nation's longest winning streak at 15 games.  They're
    playing Duke on Sunday (ESPN 5:00PM) at Duke.  Cameron Indoor should be
    rockin and rollin for this game.
    
    I remain,
    wishin BobH wuz still here
    Kev
    

re: .22

Isn't Kansas ranked higher than UNC??

The Crazy Met

RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue"                         11 lines  14-JAN-1993 09:19
                         -< UNC #1?  Could happen ... >-

	Let's hope so Chris.  It would make the inevitable March Madness 
choke so much more fun!

				/Don

    re: .-1
    
    Console yourself however you must ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Great game by the Cavs yesterday. They certainly kept Dicky V. quiet. Too bad
the Tiggers couldn't do the same.....

 mike

    Between a tennis match and my son's birfday party yesterday I've gotta
    come clean and admit I only caught bits & pieces of the Cavs stunner
    over Duke.  :^(   Even with the Devils strength-sapping 'W' over Iowa
    the day before I still thought they'd beat Virginia.  Back-to-back
    Titles will do that, I suppose ...   
    
    I did see the last 10 minutes of the game, more-or-less, and Jeff Jones' 
    squad was thoroughly in command.  What impressed me was how they 
    maintained their aggressiveness.  A lesser team might've become tentative 
    playing the mighty Dookies in their own snakepit, but this Cavalier team 
    showed their metal, bellied-to-the-bar, and opened up the throttle.  
    Impressive.
    
    Cain Virginia pull off another North Carolina 'W', this time in Chapel 
    Hill Wednesday?  If they do, pencil them in as a top 5 team in the USA.  
    However, it won't be easy.  For one thing, history is not on their side.  
    Virginia has won exactly two (2) games in Chapel Hill over the last 35 
    years.  For another, North Carolina will be rested (unlike Duke) and is 
    much deeper off the bench to begin with.  
    
    Still, the Tar Heels are not a team without weaknesses (horrendous
    outside shooting was sadly in evidence Saturday @ Clemson) and Virginia
    has gotta be super-confident.  These guys haven't lost a game in a
    *long* time.  Also the DeanDome will probably offer Carolina little in
    the way of a genuine homecourt advantage.  :^(
    
    Should be fun ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Hurley gets hype because he looks too much like Emilio Estevez...
    
    Hmm.... Billy Hurlevez.... (tm) potential?

    One area of the ACC that's been extraordinarily strong over the years
    is the quality of the point guards.  Arguably the most important
    position on the floor, a quality player at PG is an absolute necessity. 
    Why?  Cause he's the floor general.  He's the guy to call the plays, to
    bring the ball up court (often under pressure), to make the big free
    throws at the end.  In sum, a team must have more than a PG to be good,
    but it can never be good without one.  
    
    This year is no different.  Take a look at some of the quality PG's in
    the league:
    
    Hurley
    Phelps
    Best
    Alexander
    Ward
    
    Meanwhile Carolina has gone out and signed Jeff McInnis, often listed
    as the 2nd best PG in the country (obviously Randy Livingston is #1)
    and Duke already has Chris Collins and will be bringing in Jeff Cappel
    next year.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Unfortuantely I didn't get to see any of the UVa stunner over Duke, but I 
agree that Mr. Hurley seems to make bad decisions under pressure at times,
and it has lead to Duke losses.  He seemed to do OK in the tournament, however.
It is a lot of pressure to play the point day in and day out, but I do suspect 
that Hurley gets the benefit of the doubt about his abilities, playing for the 
premier program in the country.

re: .34

We are in violent agreement, Tommy.  I feel that Hurley get the recognition of
being at Duke, thus I agree that he is overrated.  There are indeedseveral 
better point guards.

The guy on ESPN said

	"Here's Bobby Hurley, being played by Emilio Estavez".

A few minutes later, when Hurley was stinking up the joint, the guy on
ESPN said 

	"Here's Bobby Hurley again, but this time Coach K wants
	 Charlie Sheen to play him"


'Saw

    Clearly you cannot say Bobby Hurley is the best PG in the country.  Not
    when the likes of Anfernee Hardaway are on the loose!  
    
    Hurley's good.  He'll make some serious dough in the NBA.  But he does
    have his, er, ragged moments.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Yabbut anybody wanna do a ressurection of the Bobby Hurley vs. Kenny
    Anderson debate?
    
    I remain,
    happy Kenny's playing well
    Kev
    

Given the choice of Bobby Hurley or Kenny Anderson, I'd play hockey.

    er: DougRoss
    
    Care to give us_a honest assessment of Eric Montross?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I'll give you mine.
    
    Montross is a much better ballplayer this year.  I'd say he's 
    an above average center and it appears he's improving.  Was he
    Honorable mention AA last year...NO WAY!  If he keeps improving
    he might make some AA lists when he's a senior.
    
    G Hill> T. Hill> Hurley>Parks>Lang
    
    Jimbo - Headline Horror HOYA'S RIP UCONN 8*(  

Not having seen Montross play except for a few minutes against
Clemson the other night, I can only go by his numbers which are 
very much improved over last year... but has Montross played against
any good centers yet?   (That's a question, not a statement.)   What's
he averaging - 16 points and 8 boards?    Would he be a lottery pick
if he came out this year?  I don't think so.     

Now that the ACC season has started, I'll get to see Monstrous a whole
lot more on tv... We'll see how he develops.     Let's remember that he
was arguably the highest rated player of his senior class.    I wouldn't
say he's made anyone forget David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Shaq, etc. yet.
And I don't think he will.    I don't think Dean Smith should get credit
for any "development" of Montross' skills.   

Q's for you ACC -

	Why does Rodl play so much?
	Whatever happened to George Lynch?

Othell Harrington has improved more in 15 games then Eric Montross
will in 4 years.

JD

<attempt at what really happend?>
    
    ;^)
    
    
Well, it has to be said....

After 2 grueling weeks of exams, term papers, lab projects and community
service, the University of Virginia student/athletes basketball team
traveled to Chapel Hill, North Carolina to play the #7 ranked team in America.
Oh yeah, Virginia btw is ranked #3.

Our sources tell us that the future pro's from "the best recruiting calss ever"
spent the last 2 weeks in seclusion, in a place called "the dean dome".

To save y'all the pain, here's a few thangs ya should know....
	
	#7 won the game (That's UNC for the memory impaired)

	The score was 80-58

	The game wuzzent close

	The coach of UNC is alleged to have:

		a)	put chlorine into the Visene of UVa
		b)	poked the eyes out of the officials
	and
		c)	sent alumni money to the wives of the refs!


Jest wanted to let ya know before the inevitable tirade from somebody who
had to have a monsoon sized woodie during the game!

;^)
		I remain,
		Happy about the B-E player of da week!
		Kev

    Think my quote from a few notes back was "At times like this, I almost
    miss BobHunt.".  After last nights game, that should be changed to
    "At times like this, I **REALLY** miss BobHunt!!!  Haw haw haw!!!111
    
    The usually sedate DeanDome was alive & rockin' last night, giving the
    good guys a true home court advantage.  That may or may not have been
    necessary, as Carolina shook off the stubborn Cavs and flattened 'em
    like a steamroller going over a diet coke can.  During_a few ill-fated
    minutes in the 2nd half (for UVa) the explosive Tar Heels turned a 
    10-point game into a *30* point game!  The defensive intensity was 
    cranked to open throttle throughout, Co.Alexander was brought down to 
    earth by the best defensive player in the USA (Phelps), and, in_a 
    nutshell, UNC dominated in every phase of the game, causing much
    speculation that this team might be the best in the country.
    
    To paraphrase a_couple_of crowd chants lasted night:
    
    re: Virginia
    
    O--V--E--R--R--A--T--E--D  !!!!!!!111111
    
    
    re: NorthCarolina
    
    W--E--'--R--E    N--U--M--B--E--R   O--N--E   !!!!!!!!!1111111
    W--E--'--R--E    N--U--M--B--E--R   O--N--E   !!!!!!!!!1111111
    W--E--'--R--E    N--U--M--B--E--R   O--N--E   !!!!!!!!!1111111
    (etc.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    BTW, 1Way, feel free to forward 21.46 on to KingWeasel BobHunt.
    
    tankee,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Enjoy it now Subway,
    For as ever,
    The Sword of Damocles hangs over Dean's Haid.
    
    However, good win.
    
    MikeL
    

    .47
    
    Nice to see that after years of watching the creative Duke crowds the UNC
    students finally were able to chant in unison something as simple as:
    
           "We're number 1"
    
    Obviously, UNC must have raised its entrance requirements.  As a
    challenge, next year they will go for: "Let's go team"
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    re: C-boy
    
    You're right - UNC crowds are the worst.  Absolutely pathetic.  On the
    other hand, at least you could actually *hear* crowd noise last night,
    even though at tip-off there were *many* empty fat-cat-alum seats
    around the court and most of 'em remained planted on their rich rumps
    throughout even the most exciting of events.
    
    Biggest mistake ever made by DeanSmith was giving the go-ahead to this
    building, assuming he had some control over it.  (Doubtful.)  Carmichael 
    crowds were *great* - every bit as good as what Duke puts on (and minus 
    the unsportsmanlike free throw disruptions and racial signs/chants).
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>
>    BTW, 1Way, feel free to forward 21.46 on to KingWeasel BobHunt.
>    
>    tankee,
>    
>    
>    - ACC Chris

Hey, you cain do it yerself.

Just forward it to:

	DECWRL::"71251.2074@compuserve.com"


And he'll get it.


I'm sure he'd love to hear from you.....


8^)

    Anybody happen to notice the self-destruction of the Georgia Tech
    Yellowjackets since the Duke 'W'?  First they lose at Chapel Hill by a
    respectable score.  No big deal.  Then they get knocked of by The
    College of Charleston (in Atlanta) in a game that wasn't even close. 
    Bigger deal.  Then, last night at the ThrillerDome (i.e. a home game)
    they were down to Wake Forest:
    
    			49 - 21
    
    at halftime!  GULP!!  Tech went on to lose BIG.
    
    This is a team that, inexplicably, has lost *all* confidence.  Tech
    shot a whopping 25% in the first half against Wake, which packed into a
    zone defense the entire night, daring the Jackets to hit_a outside
    shot.  GaTech ended up 3-19 from 3-point range.  (Ugh ...)
    
    The road actually gets worse.  Cremins brings his boys into
    Charlottesville Saturday, which is a place they never seem to play
    well.  (Not that many visiting teams do ...)  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Ga Tech continues to fail to show up for games after beating Duke. First
they lose to the College of Charleston (SC) and lasted night they got
beat up bad at home by Wake, 92-56. Most of the margin of victory was
given up in the first 10 minutes. At least after that point who would win
the game was never a_issue. It's good to see Wake doing well and possibly
headed to NCAAs.

Meanwhile, State looks like it might be hard pressed to win another game
this season. They were whooped bad by Duke, 92-56. It wasn't that close.

For all the BE-ACC-who's-best fanatics,  No Carolin plays Seton Hall
Sunday so get ready to crow or eat crow.

In all fairness to No Carolina, Carmichael was a great place to play
college basketball. Cameron Indoor pales by comparison. The Dean Dome is
a great place for large concerts and supports college basketball almost
as a_afterthought. In the ACC there's a mini-trend to move away from the
bigger arenas and start playing on campus again. Wake has left the
Greensboro Coliseum and returned to its home. Ga Tech moved from the Omni
back to its own gym. NC State, who has forgotten how to or is otherwise
unable to field a competitive team is bucking this trend and planning for
a major new arena in the vicinity of its football stadium.

TTom

    re: Duke vs. NC State
    
    Les talked afterwards about his teams "abandonment" of its game
    plan.  Went on to say they were outof this game about as fast as you
    can be outof a game.  It'll be interesting to see how much patience the
    WufPack alum will have.  Prior to this season Robinson hadn't done much
    (other than beat Dean a_couple times) and this year is probably the
    worst ever for North Carolina State basketball.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Where is the NC-Seton Hall game being played? Is it on CBS or ABC?If it
is on CBS those of us in the Boston area will even be able to see it.
Or is it on ESPN?

The Crazy Met

Here's the weekend schedule with TV info.

	Saturday:
	Maryland at State, 1:30 pm, regional ACC TV
	Ga Tech at Virginia, 4 pm,  regional ACC TV

	Sunday:
	No Carolina at Seton Hall, 12:30 pm, CBS
	Wake Forest at Clemson, 2 pm, regional ACC TV
	Duke at Florida St, 3:45 pm, ABC

TTom

    UNC @ SetonHall is on CBS (12:30) this Sunday.  Given the fact that the
    Pirates have the homecourt edge I'd expect them to be a 3-5 point
    favorite for the game.  Hopefully Carolina will play well and try to
    spring the upset.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

I don't know about any national line but the Tar Heels will most
certainly not be getting any points in this area. A pickem would be about
right but I wouldn't be too surprised to see No Carolina favored.

In any case, no way would this be a_upset as our friend who's not from
the ACC would like us to believe. Currenlty No Carolina is ranked #4 and
Seton Hall is #9. Perhaps we're being prepped for a choke job?

TTom

    > our friend who's not from the ACC
    
    I beg your barden!  I live in Hotlanta (a_ACC port) and spent most of
    my youth on Tobacco Road.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

Yea but:
	Big East Chris - you lived in the Boston Area which has BC
	Great Midwest Chris - somewhere you alluded to living in Cincinnati
	SEChris - remember Georgia.

And all that seems about right in that you have the same degree of
affliation with the SEC as you do with the ACC.

TTom

    Glad the GT-WF game wasn't televised. Sounds like it would've been
    painful to watch. Can't figure out what's happening in Atlanta. After
    looking good in the early season, they are stinking up Peachtree St.
    Musta been finals week. ;^)
    
    FYI- Tech has never played more than 2-3 games in the Omni every year.
    
    Chris

In this area, we're fortunate to catch most of the ACC games so we got
the regoinal ACC feed lasted night for Tech versus Wake. 

No doubt about it: the Yellow Jackets need to get back on track or
they'll lose all the value in terms of national rankings, tourney
seedings, etc., from beating Duke.

TTom

    re: .61
    
    Sadly Chris, some us *were* forced to watch this ugly affair.  (i.e. it
    was shown locally down here in SEC-land.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

ChrisCrockACC -

HAHAHAHAHA.  You really are funny.  After all the bashing of how *bad* the
Big East is, and how they don't get *any* good players, blah blah, coupled
with how *great* dean, the ACC and the Tarhells(tm) are, do your really
expect *anyone* to believe that Seton Hall should be 3-5 point favs?


HAHAHAHAHA.

Given your hype, I'd say that anything less then a total blowout by the 
almight 'greatest recruiting class of all time' by at east *20* points
would be a choke by the Deanster.

too funny Crock, too funny.

JD

re: .57

sorta reminds me of  Lou Holtz talking about Navy

The Crazy Met

    
    I hate busy work dayys  :*)
    
    Ya know, there was, imo, a great similiarity at the big inning of the
    BBall season between SJU and NC State. SJU lost most of their team to
    graduation, so did NC State.
    
    However, the Johnnies sucked it in, didn't make any excuses and went to
    work.  Look!  They're in second place in the B-E and although the
    season's early, almost everybody and his granmama had them picked for
    either last or next to last.
    
    number 2
    
    What's a good way to label Duke as the "Most overexposed Basketball
    Team in the Country"? I think that with their game on Sunday, they have
    been on national tee vee at least what, 10 out of 12 games?  Sheesh,
    gimme a break!
    
    I remain,
    hating the word "Hurley"!!!!!!!
    Kev
    

    
    just a point,
    
    I know it's not 10 fer 12, maybe it's 13 for 16 or 9 for 14 but it
    seems like there on tee vee AT least 2x every 7 days, sometimes more.
    
    I remain,
    wonderin in ya know where I'm coming from?
    Kev
    
    

    Kev, when you're the top team in the nation for a couple of years, what
    do you expect?

    I expect The Discovery Channel to capture me more frequently!
    
    I remain,
    Carnak_jr.
    Kev
    

Missed yesterday's big clash as I was the Centrum watching UMASS. Funny but it
must have been the first game I've been to in about 5 years that Nazz wasn't
working at? Anyways the RONS and the papers say that UNC need alot of help from
the boys in the stripes and ole Luther out played Frankentross....

 mike

Bob Hunt sent me a note to post. I know that it will be set hidden. So
I posted it and did a set hidden myself. Anyone who wants to see Bob's note
send me amil and I'll forward it to you. I have already sent it to ACCChris

The Crazy Met

    *Huge* 'W' for GaTech on Saturday over Virginia.  HUGE.  Here's a team
    that was beyond struggling, ... they were reeling.  I gave 'em a
    snowball's chance in hades of winning @ Virginia.  Give the Jackets
    credit for showing some moxy and righting a sinking ship.  Malcolm
    Mackey definitely answered the bell in this one.
    
    No mention of the incredible Duke @ FSU finish?!  The Devils notched
    their *third* ACC loss, going down on an incredible 3-point OT
    buzzer-beater by non-3-point-specialist Byron Wells, 89-88.  (Wells is
    6'10" who was 3-fer-13 from 3-point range this season.)
    
    In other ACC news, North Carolina beat Seton Hall by 4, 70-66.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    For the Hurley haters in the crowd, the Duke-FSU game was a delight. He
    "hurled" the ball right to an FSU player with about 15 seconds on the
    clock and a two point Duke lead. The ensuing trey with 3 seconds left
    set up the win and QB Ward sealed it by intercepting the inbound pass.
    The Dukies are "back in the pack" in the ACC race.
    
    Nice win for Tech. I was really surprised given their odiferous
    emanations of late. Not unusual at all for Cremins teams to slump in
    Jan/Feb. Hopefully it's behind them now.
    
    GTChris 

"......and ole Luther out played Frankentross...."

    Mikey,
    
    	Had company yesterday so I only caught occasional glimpses of the
    game and you hit the nail right on the head.  Luther overall seemed to
    be faster, more accurate, had a few awesome blocked shots and generally
    made Frankentross keep talking to himself.
    
    Sad I couldn't watch the whole game......
    
    
    I remain,
    obligated to family get togethers....
    
    Kev

    > odiferous emanations
    
    Oooooo, I'm impwessed!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

To you ACC watchers, how do the following seniors project into the
NBA?

Sam Cassell 
Malcom Mackey
Doug Edwards

Thanks,

Ken

    Latest ratings highlight how bogus they can be. Duke ranked
    as #7 after its 3rd loss, and the one yesterday to a team not
    ranked?? Hah!
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    See my comments about UNC being above Michigan... Ok, Duke's lost
    now, but UNC was above Michigan, when Michigan beat UNC and lost
    to two teams ranked above them (Duke, IU) and beat Kansas...
    

Though this might be interesting to you ACC fans, and TTom in particular:




Article 108213 of rec.humor:
Path: e2big.mko.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!decwrl!parc!biosci!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!cunews!fenton
From: fenton@scs.carleton.ca (Trevor Fenton)
Newsgroups: rec.humor
Subject: Re: Wierd Names
Message-ID: <1993Jan22.022809.3811@cunews.carleton.ca>
Date: 22 Jan 93 02:28:09 GMT
References: <C0z9xs.F37@portal.hq.videocart.com> <890091b.39.727543700@axe.acadiau.ca> <93020.163941GMG7@psuvm.psu.edu>
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        The following is quoted from: "The Not-So-Great Moments in Sports" by 
Braine and Stravinsky. There was a basketball player at North Carolina State
whose name was Bernie Yurin. An excerpt from radio commentary by Marty Glickman:
"Yurin dribbles down the court...Yurin passes...Yurin shoots...Yurin is hot
tonight!"

trev

    Intriguing battle for first tonight in the Atlantic Coast Conference as
    2nd place Florida State visits 1st place North Carolina.  A 'W' for the
    Seminoles would tie 'em for first in the loss column.  A Carolina win 
    puts 'em up 2 in the loss column, but don't be deceived: UNC's next two 
    (2) games are @ Wake Forest and @ Duke.
    
    The pregame matchup seems pretty clear in this one:  Florida State's
    quickness and perimeter game vs. Carolina's inside strength and
    depth.  FSU will need to handle Carolina's pressure defense.  If it
    does (and I suspect they will) they'll find open 3-point shots waiting. 
    I suspect Carolina will do nowhere near the trapping/gambling against
    the 'Noles as they did against the PG-less SetonHallPirates.  (Unless
    you call the overmatched DannyHurley or the hobbling Brian Caver "point
    guards".  I don't ...)
    
    Unlike last years FSU trounching of the Heels at the DD, I suspect the
    place will be jumping tonight.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    
    

    Heck of a combat by UNC to win by 5; they were down by 21.
    
    Now the fun part, a guessing game as to how insufferable this note will
    probably become within the next 12-13 hours (ACC Chris may be on the
    late shift this week)
    
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    I really really really really really hated to see Florida State fall
    dead apart last night.
    
    I thought the refs missed a few late in the game, but, still a 21 point
    lead should absorb some bad calls.  
    
    Florida States coach shoulda tried some coaching down the stretch.
    
    What a nightmare for us Dean_Haters...  :-(

If you missed last night's UNC > Florida State affair on ESPN last night
too bad, cause you missed one of the greatest comebacks in the history
of the storied Atlantic Coast Conference.  Down by a whopping 20 big ones
with 9 minutes to play, Dean cooked up a miracle and Carolina won by 5.
Wa-wa-wa-wa-WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111

On a more somber note, I hope the boys in baby blue take note of the first
30 minutes of this game when reviewing the film, cause, to be blunt, we
was gettin' our aces kicked.  Everything that could go wrong, did.  Montross
in early foul trouble.  Pitiful perimieter shooting.  Slowness afoot.
Scott Cherry starting the game cause Phelps (& Reese) were late for a 
pregame meal.  Destroyed on the glass.  In sum, FSU could do no wrong;
UNC could do no right.  As a fain, I simply had to suck it up and take my
medicine.  :^(

But my-oh-my how things cain change.  After failing to throw the ball into
the ocean, the Tar Heels canned their last 5 3's.  After disecting UNC's
traps all night, Florida State threw the ball away time after time.  (Fatigue
and loss of composure were the culprits.  Charlie Ward ended up with a 
staggering *ten* turnovers, reminding folks of Bobby Hurley's early-ACC
days ...)  Suddenly the lead was in single digits and Lennie Wirtz was
ringing PatKennedy up for a technical!  Before you could blink an eye, 
Lynch was stealing the ball and jamming, giving UNC the lead.  Donald Williams
sealed the game w/ 4 free throws that didn't even *think* about touching
the rim.  Looking into Donald's eyes at the end of the game there was
absolutely no doubt this kid had stepped up at crunch time.

In sum, this one was a game for the ages.


- ACC Chris
    

re: .87 Now that we have that out of our system :-)

A serious ACC question. When was the last time a team in the ACC beat 
Duke and UNCin back-to-back games (either order)? Ihave no idea but figure
someone in this august gathering probably knows.

The Crazy Met

    Does anyone have anything for a bad case of hemi-snuffy-roids?
    Got a bad case of them this morning...
    
    REK

    	RE: Game for the Ages
    
    	Why do I have this feeling that had the Blews not won, the Monstrous
    early foul trouble and the tardiness for a pre game meal would have
    been given more credence and the only "medicine" ACK would've taken
    would be more of the placebo variety. 
    
    				/Don

    
    
    	Good win for NC but I was wondering what conference I had stumbled
    into when turning on the set after returing from ref'in two games.
    
    	I was confused.  The game was so physical with nothing being called
    that I thought I was maybe watching the Big East or the Big Ten.  But
    no, I was watching the ACC.
    
    	My opinion only, and from the TV set besides, but there was way
    to much physical play in this game.  I'm gonna say it, and I'm gonna
    get flack for it, but I did feel the refs were witholding the whistle
    a bit on the NC side.  Just my opinion.  I can't remember any real
    specifics but I do recall several plays or sequences where it appeared
    there was a great deal of contact that put an FSU player at a distinct
    disadvantage.
    
    	Also, where are the Wertz haters?  Hey, he popped the FSU coach
    last night (still don't know why...again ESPN is really lacking here
    with no information) in the second half that continued to give momentum
    to NC, but yet I don't hear to much about that.  I'm not saying that
    it gave NC the win or anything like that, but a T at that point for
    something tacky is tacky.  As we all know, Wertz is famous for this.
    
    	In the past, the Big East and the Big Ten have had the reputation
    as the physical conferences or at least the ones that let the players
    beat the crap out of each other, but after watching most of the NC
    FSU game last night, I wonder if the balance of power has indeed
    shifted to the ACC?  Not a good omen in my book.
    
    bill..g.
    

    Bill...g
    
    One possible explaination on the "possible" preferential treatment
    to UNC.  Ya see, within maybe 3 minutes after the start of the game,
    Eric Montross was called for his 3rd foul (offensive rebound).
    
    Prior to that, he was playing like a man, under control, who was
    possessed and unstoppable.  He really was dominating.  Almost as soon
    as he left the game, FSU started to kick some butt bigtime resulting in
    the runaway.  Perhaps subconscously the ref's felt they had gone too
    far?
    
    Wassizz name from FSU? the guy who plays football?  Ward?  Man, what a
    pesky waterbug!  I liked him.
    
    anyway,
    
    I remain,
    happy SJU-UConn is on tee vee Saturday!
    Kev
    

    I luv it - a ref blamin' the ref's cause a team choked away a 20 point
    lead with 9 minutes left!  Haw haw haw!!!11  
    
    I've no idea why Lennie chose to zing Kennedy, but it wouldn't surprise
    me a bit if it was bogus.  This guy has been jobbing Dean and Carolina
    for years (decades, actually).  'Bout time we got some payback.  In any
    case this was only a 2-point swing cause we had the ball at the time. 
    Final margin was five (5), so I cain't make a direct correspondence
    between FSU's 'L' and Wertz's 'T'.
    
    As to the ACC not being physical, bah.  Teams are physical/finesse, not
    conferences.  North Carolina is a big, rugged, physical team.  Florida
    State is small, quick, and more finesse.  Both are in the ACC.  BTW,
    the ACC has *long* had the reputation as having the best referees in
    the country.  If'n ya don't believe it, take a look at the number of
    'em the NBA grabbed a few years ago (Joe Forte, et al.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    
    

Yawn.


Wake me up when Snuffy gags on the ol' Chicken Bone in March, okay?

So, like in light of recent developments, shouldn't UNC be rated #1 in the 
nexted poll?

#1, awesome team, on the rise in January - sounds like they have no excuses 
to not win the champeenship, right?

Indiana was ranked #2 in the last polls so they will probably 
get the #1 ranking unless they lose their next
game.

The Crazy Met

ACChris, 
	
	I wouldn't gloat too much about the Carolina comeback because:

	a) There was a noticeable "home-cookin'" aspect to the refs

		i.e. they were letting Reese, Phelps, Rodl, Williams, etc.
		manhandle the ballhandlers out top

		Salvadori spent 11 seconds in the paint one time by my
		count without a shot going up... He and Montross camp in
		the lane but only got called once.

	
	b) Florida State is like Oklahoma - they have the physical skills
	   to blow your doors off, but haven't got enough basketball sense
	   to react to a change of momentum.   When Sura tried the no-look
	   pass during NC's comeback, I knew they were history.   Sura and
	   Cassell are playground all-stars.   

	c) When I saw ESPN replay Pat Kennedy's halftime talk saying "If
	   we score 45, they have to score 60 something" I had a bad feeling
	   about them holding onto the lead.    

    > I wouldn't gloat too much about the Carolina comeback
    
    Git reel, ross.  If ya can't gloat when your team pulls off a 20-point
    comeback with 9 minutes to play, when *can* ya gloat?!
    
    I plan on re-watching the video for the 3rd time tonight.  :^)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

I'm going to take the high ground on all this for some very pragmatic
reasons.

I shan't bad mouth the Tar Heels talent in any way. They have and always
will have the bestest talent in college hoops land.

I shan't blame the refs cause we all know that things like the Heels
camping out in the lane and the like is sour grapes and biased viewing.

I shan't blame the schedule cause both teams have to suit up one jock
strap at a time.

Now, with all that shan'ts, won't it be fun when Dean chokes when the
tourney time comes?

TTom

    
    re: Chris
    
    	I never said that NC won because of the ref's!  You are putting
    words in my mouth!  I DID say that 'I' thought the refs were letting
    to much contact go unchecked along with questioning the T on the
    FSU coach.
    
    	Now, it's one thing to criticize something you know nothing about
    and it is quite another to criticize that which is your second job!
    In this case, stick to wearing your babyblue glasses becasue they
    fit you well.  Leave the ref'in stuff to those that know the game
    intimately from that angle.
    
    	Since I have no interest in what the ACC does (apart from seeing
    Travis Best perform well) or any other college team, I don't feel
    that I am biased when looking at the game.  In fact, I rarely ever 
    watch a game and when I do, I usually watch the officials more than
    the actual play.  Now I will say that I am fully in support (call it
    biased) when supporting a fellow official, but that doesn't mean I
    also can't point out possible weaknesses in the officiating.  I admit,
    it is rare that I do such a thing, but I was a little surprised that
    the ref's let the game get pretty physical when this years emphasis
    was on cleaning up the rough low post play.
    
    	For the record, I thought NC played very well for 9 of the 40
    minutes and obviously, FSU simply could not hold back the waters.  
    Call it a choke or whatever, but FSU blew the lead, but NC also played
    well down the stretch.
    
    bill..g.
    

Bill G.

You would have loved a comment on ESPN during last nights USC-UCLA game.
Some guy on USCwas called for a foul. Comment was he got called for a foul
for simply existing.

The Crazy Met

    re: bill..g.
    
    Seeing's how ESPN didn't have a camera focused on Kennedy when he got
    nailed, ... and seeing's how they didn't have an appropriate replay
    available to show exactly what he did or did not do, ... and seeing's how
    neither the Wertz or Kennedy had any comment on the incident, I find
    it highly speculative for you to call this a "bad" call.  I always
    thought ref's were supposed to actually see what happened (or at least
    hear it) before making a call.  
    
    As to the heavy contact underneath, I disagree that you're more
    qualified than me.  I know what the rules are, played in enough games
    to have a working understanding, and watched countless ACC games.  The
    kinds of fouls we're talking about are highly subjective.  You can
    easily claim to know more about officiating than me, but to make your
    case you also must claim to know more about officiating than the ACC
    officials doing the game, and I highly doubt that's the case.
    
    Huff, puff, huff.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    As to the heavy contact underneath, I disagree that you're more
>    qualified than me.  I know what the rules are, played in enough games
>    to have a working understanding, and watched countless ACC games.  The



Hubris at its best and finest folks.....


"I'm not a referee but I've seen it done so I know all about it"


That's rich.


'Saw

You gotta be a ref to criticize refs? Naw, no way. 
You gotta actually see something to comment about it? Ditto.

TTom

    
    re: chris
    
    Never said the T on the FSU head coach was a bad call.  I simply called
    into question the call since it was coming from Wertz.  Personally,
    I don't have a problem with Wertz but certain folks in here do.  I
    simply found it kind of ironic that when the shoes one the other foot,
    then it is a good call.  Secondly, I will continue to criticize any
    network that televises games and doesn't have adequate interpretation.
    
>    As to the heavy contact underneath, I disagree that you're more
    qualified than me.  I know what the rules are, played in enough games
    to have a working understanding, and watched countless ACC games.  The
    kinds of fouls we're talking about are highly subjective.  You can
    easily claim to know more about officiating than me, but to make your
    case you also must claim to know more about officiating than the ACC
>    officials doing the game, and I highly doubt that's the case.
    
    This is simply a no-brainer.  You can disagree all you want and talk
    about how much you've played (and I doubt that you've played more than
    me) but the fact remains that I am tested each and every year in order
    to keep my standing.  Now that in itself don't mean that I am necessarily 
    a good ref, but when compared to a 'fan' that has simply played and 
    watched a lot of games, it is no contest.  Like I said, stick to being
    a fan.  You're a great fan, but leave the officiating to the refs.
    
    And heaven forbid.  I've never thought nor would I think that I can
    possibly know more than a Div. I official.  I have stated numerous
    times that they are simply the best bball officials on the planet, 
    period.  But just as I am evaluated by impartial observers, I feel I
    can try to point out small things here and there.  Looking at the 
    game as a whole, I have no problem with the calls/noncalls.  I only
    said that I was surprised at the amount of contact that was let go
    seeing that the emphasis this year was on cleaning up on the low post
    play.
    
    	Consistency is the key here.  I will and won't have any problem if
    when NC visits Duke that the officials call the same type of game.  
    Now if they decide to call a different game, then that's when I have
    a problem.  We'll see.  All I or any player/fan wants is consistency.
    
    bill..g.
    

    bill, mebee you should contact Fred Barakat (Commissioner of
    officiating in the Atlantic Coast Conference) about becoming an
    evaluator of his zerbras.  I mean, if ya cain do it from home, why not
    get paid in the process?  Haw haw!
    
    re: Wertz
    
    It's no secret I can't stand Lenny Wertz, but the same can be said for
    any ACC fan on the planet.  The guy's been a first-class jerk for years, 
    although he seems to have toned down his act of late.  Whether Kennedy 
    was justifiably wacked is immaterial in my book.  It was a 2-point 
    swing (UNC already had the ball when the call was made) and way FSU was
    swooning (they ended up losing by 5) it's doubtful it affected the
    final outcome.
    
    As to the so-called cleaning up of the low post, I haven't seen it.  If
    you watch the way Eric Montross gets banged around on a gamely basis
    you'd have to agree.  The fact that he's so big apparently makes
    officials figure all bets are off.  :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    How in the world those refs get away with such obvious biases is beyond
    comprehension.  Eric Mongross is just planted in the 3-second lane for
    at least 5-6 seconds at a time.
    
    And then you have horse-faced Reese who gets away with murder and no
    friggen fouls are called !!!!  What a farce.
    
    and yeah, I hate it when "greatest ever recruiting class" wins. But
    remembering Dean's record at the Big Dance gives me hope for an early
    exit.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

UNC is as sure to lose in the NCAA tournament as the Cowboys are sure
to lose on Sunday.

The Crazy Met

Yo TCM,

Watch out with that bet there. Dallas actually has a pretty good chance
of winning Sunday. The odds are fifty-fifty, so to speak (they either win
or they lose).

You can't even get a line on the Demise o' Dean. I mean this side of
Freddie Brown, the Heels choking is about as questionable as whether the
sun rises in the east. Not quite up there with gravity but close.

TTom

    
    To help out ACC Chris in writing his apolegia for UNC's 86-62 loss to
    Wake Forest I append a true classic of the genre.
    
    The Crazy Met
    
              <<< ALPHAX::PUB$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 56.1446                    Cleveland Browns                    1446 of 1986
JUNCO::WHITEHAIR                                     49 lines  25-AUG-1992 10:52
                         -< Lets score it this way... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    		Ok, after looking at some of the stats....
    
    	The Vikings only scored 7 points in the first quarter and
    28 in the second quarter.  So, I'd have to quess that the Browns
    1st string defense was not on the field in the second quarter.
    We had to be giving all those new guys their last chance at making
    the team.  Needless to say, none of them probably made it.  Still
    not sure how long Bernie played or how long the first string offense
    was on the field.
    	I still don't think they played in Cleveland though.  
    
    	At any rate, it doesn't look good.  Who are the Browns going to
    be passing to this year???  Slaughter still out and there are no other
    veterans on the team except for Bavaro, but, you can't throw to the
    tight end every passing atempt.  I have not seen the individual stats
    yet either.  So, I don't know how the Thriller did.  One thing I did
    see is that the Browns fumbled 3 times and lost all three.  So, lets
    look at it this way.....
    
    			final score    56     3
    	subtract for fumble #1         -7
                                       49     3
        subtract for fumble #2         -7
                                       42     3
        subtract for fumble #3         -7
                                       35     3
        subtract for interception TD   -7   
                                       28     3
      add for no fumble on 3 occations      +21
                                       28    24
      add for no interception                +7
                                       28    31
    
    
    			see, The Browns should have won!
    
    		The real score in my mind Browns 31 Vikings 28
    				close game aeee.
    
    
    
    		WOOF!
    
    		0 0
            ~    -
             ~\_____/
              ~ /
    

Montross scored 4 points and fouled out in the loss to Wake.    After seeing
Montross and Cherokee Parks play the past two weeks, I think Parks is the
better center.  More mobile, better offensively...

The local paper had an article about Montross last week and had the 
nerve to call him "the rapidly improving center."  ??!!???   The guy
was the top prospect coming out of H.S. and he's nearly two thirds 
thru his college career and is finally putting up reasonable numbers
and that makes him "rapidly improving?"  Haw haw haw... the Dean spin
controllers must have worked overtime to get that one in the article.

    After playing Wake essentially even in the first half the wheels came
    off the UNC wagon, as the Deamon Deacons (led by a tremendous shooting
    performance from Randolph Childress) beat North Carolina for only the
    2nd time since 1982.  (Gulp!)
    
    The negatives observed by this reporter in the Florida State game came
    to the fore again against Wake.  Of particular concern is the perimeter
    game, which is absolutely pathetic.  Credit the Deacs with playing a
    great 2nd half.  They're a very strong team that is, IMO, one of the
    top 15 in the country right now, minimum.  
    
    From a North Carolina perspective, you have to be concerned with the
    perimeter shooting, the identical bug-a-boo from last year.  Montross
    can be critized to the hilt by anyone who wants, but whoever does is
    basing that on box score results. (i.e. didn't bother watching the
    game. ...)  Wake was packed in so tight Eric was literally
    triple-teamed on the rare occasions he touched the ball.  Usually we
    just threw the ball away trying to ram it inside for the zillionth
    time.  Nobody on this team wants to shoot except for Donald Williams.  
    Rodl, Phelps, Reese, and Sullivan are stinkin' it up on the perimeter, 
    and that translates into zilch for breathing room in the paint.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Anyone know the Tech-FSU score?
    
    Chris

    96-77, FSU > Tech.  This 'un was ugly.  With 16 minutes to play, FSU
    led by *32*.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    
       Well when the Mar Heels lose for the 2nd time in 2 attempts against
    Duke Wednesday will they fall out of the top 10? This reporter thinks
    so!

Where are the Heels ranked now?Anyone have the latest ratings? I assume 
Indiana is ranked #1 and after that ??? Kansas, Michigan, NC all lost
this past week.

The Crazy Met

>                        -< UNC is overachieving at #6. >-
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Your on-line thesaurus must be busted......
    

    Tonight, 9:00pm EST, ESPN:
    
    North Carolina @ Duke.
    
    'nuf said,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Duke has opened up as a_early favorite - by 5 - in this game. 

One of the things they have going for them is reviewing the tapes of the
Heels recent games against Florida St and Wake. However, for the strategy
to work, Bobby Hurley will have to burn them from the perimeter. No
Carolina should adopt the type of defense on Hurley that Charley Ward put
on him in the Duke-Florida St game. The whole game could turn on the
Phelps-Hurley matchup.

Meanwhile, it'll be Montross versus Parks and George Lynch versus Grant
Hill on the front line. Could be a good game.

Watch for the crazies to have something special for the Heels.

TTom

    	RE: North Carolina vs. Duke 
    
    	As Denny used to say "It's to bad somebody has to win".

TTom,

So which team does a NC State fan root for in this matchup?

The Crazy Met

    Interesting game analysis, TTom.  Phelps vs. Hurley could indeed be the
    key.  Right now North Carolina has to be smarting in the confidence
    department, even with the unlikely 'W' over Florida State.  The fact is
    that the last two (2) games have seen teams exploit UNC weaknesses
    (poor outside shooting and relative slowness afoot).  
    
    I'm not particularly keen on losing to Duke, but I'm much more
    concerned with seeing this team start making some outside shots.  It's
    the key to the rest of the season, IMO.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    	Hey ACK, if the Blews are overachieving at #6, what do you consider
    to be a fair seed?
    
    				/Don

This is a hard one but after much consideration, I'll have to be rooting
for Duke. There are really just 2 rules governing conduct in this type of
situation:

	1. Root for anybody playing No Carolina.
	2. In all other cases, see rule #1.

TTom

>	1. Root for anybody playing No Carolina.
>	2. In all other cases, see rule #1.

Isn't there an exception if that 'anybody' is Notre Dame??


Joe

    
    
    	and I'll be watching the ref's!!  
    
    	For those of you without a program, look for Duke to get every
    call in the book and NC to get jobbed big time!!
    
    	Just thought I'd say it now so's you guys wouldn't have to hear
    it from Chris tomorrow!! 
    
    	bill..g.
    

    Yup bill, you'll be watchin' the ref's and arm-chair q-backing like the
    rest of us.  Haw!
    
    For the record, I've yet to blame a North Carolina loss on the
    officials.  Ever.  In fact, the only time I can remember bringing the
    officiating up as it relates to Carolina is the incredibly stupid Pete
    Pavia (R.I.P.) Dean-ejection of the '91 Final4.  Easily one of the
    worst (probably *the* worst) piece of officiating I've ever seen.
    (BTW, Pavia's widely critized uncalled for ejection of Dean resulted in
    an NCAA rules change that requires officials to state to the scorers
    table the reason for each and every technical that they call.  In the
    case of Pavia's blunders, nobody could figure out why he'd made the
    call, and it's still a mystery to most of us.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

way back like the last time I was in here. Pat Kennedy obviously caught the
T for arguing about the extremely weak foul call on one his players against
Frankentross the play before. Frankentross came down with the rebound and fell
down and rolled across the floor an obvious travel to this viewer but not to the
UNC favoring refs.........

 mike

I thought Snuffmeister was outta the coaching box? Or do you baby blews just
forget about any rules your GOD decides to ignore?

Metz

    Duke wins 90-77 (something like that). It was a 4 point game with about
    4 minutes left and then Duke took control of the game.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
    
         NC will fall outta the top 10 News at 11:00.
    
    
    
    Chappy

Trying to be objective here, let's start with the positives about UNC:

	Montross played very well (up until the last five minutes, when
		Parks got the better of him... He is pretty much
		unstoppable when he gets the ball under the hoop)

	George Lynch played very well.

	The Carolina defense (especially the guards) is probably the
		quickest I can remeber seeing.


But let's talk negatives now:

	Montross shot 8/15 and probably 1/5 down the stretch.  He
	missed 5 of 8 free throws... some during crunch time.   I still
	think Cherokee Parks is a better all-around basketball player -
	more mobile, better defensively... he shot 6/7 and blocked at
	least five shots.  

	As long as Pat Sullivan is on the court, I remain confident that
	UNC will lose.  I could just imagine ACC Chris groaning when 
	Sullivan fired up a brick three pointer down the stretch.  

	The great guard defense comes at the expense of a lot of fouls 
	because they use their hands so much.   Because they are so 
	aggresive, they get nailed (but probably only half as much as
	they should be).

	All Dean Smith seems to do on the sidelines lately is beg for
	foul calls.   I guess when you're a legend you have the right to
	inform the officials on every play about the mistakes they've
	made.  

	
It was a good game... I'll never believe Bobby Hurley is NBA material, though.
Just think, if Florida State played with any intelligence, Dean's boys would
be looking at a three game losing streak.

Back to an earlier q of mine. Anyone know the last time any team beat NC
and Duke in consecutive games??

The Crazy Met

	Yeah but Chappy, maybe now the Blews will be seeded where they
    belong and not at the overachieving #6.
    
    				/Don
    
                    <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< SPORTS >-
================================================================================
Note 21.134                        ACC Sports                         134 of 136
WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M "Yankees return to the Promised " 8 lines   4-FEB-1993 09:24
                                -< NC SIPS.... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    
    
         NC will fall outta the top 10 News at 11:00.
    
    
    
    Chappy

Interesting stat from last night's game that kinda puts the whole Deanho choke
thing in perpesctive. Before last night after a loss UNC was 11-1 against Duke,
now 11-2. This says to me that Deanho is always looking forward to the bigger 
fish and forgetting to fry the little Kivers in the game before. I think an
interesting parallel can be draw between these results and udogs that have
ambushed them in the tourney 

    Even though the Bluedevils won, I still can not believe that the refs
    keep ignoring the 3 second rule when Monstrosity is concerned.  He
    stays in the lane for so long that one day i expect him to forget where
    he is, think he's on defense and end up blocking one of his teammates' 
    shots.
    
    "xcuse the bad grammer.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

Where's ACC Crisp?   Did he say he was going on vacation, or taking a 
few days off, or is he just pulling a Hal?


Enquiring and all that SLOF.....


'Saw

Re John R.

In the Seton Hall game, Montross was glued to the paint,
and 3 seconds was never called.  But Billy Raferty was
able to gush about him.

JD

    
    
    
            ACC C. Must be real busy. He wouldn't pull a Hal would he?

    
    I heard that he's interviewing for the S.E.D. at UNC so
    he's probably unable to log in.
    
    hth
    
    I remain,
    an assistant personell contact kinda guy,
    Kev
    

    re: UNC vs. Duke
    
    If I were anymore correct about this game in my pre-game analysis It'd
    be scary, cause as it stands, wail, call me Nostradamus.  Who is it who
    said the key to the game was Carolina's ability (inability?) to can the
    open outside shot?!  Who is it who pointed out how UNC was overrated at
    this point cause they can't shoot?!  Who?!  Me, that's who.
    
    This season is taking on an amazing similarity to last year, when
    Carolina topped out as a Top4 team in the USA before hitting the skids
    (again because of poor perimeter play) and finishing down the pecking
    order in both the ACC and the nation.  Here this, folks:  If Carolina
    can't shoot (which the can't) they are, at best, a Top15 team (in
    accordance with preseason prognosticators).
    
    I see UNC as having two (2) options at this point:
    
    1. Continue to try to pound it inside at every opportunity and take our
       lumps when other teams force the outside shot.  This will insure
       a 2nd or 3rd place ACC finish and a Sweet16 (maybe Excellent8)
       berth.
    
    2. Open up the offense and let guys light it up from the perimeter, 
       thereby opening up the middle.  (In other words, the exact opposite
       of the current "inside first" approach.)  This is a gamble, cause
       as previously stated, this team is horrid from outside, but just
       maybe it'll give 'em the confidence boost they so desperately need.
       This approach could result in either a Final4 berth or a_early NCAA
       exit.  (i.e. it's a big gamble)
    
    I've no doubt Dean will opt for #1.  The only middle ground here might
    be Dante Calabria.  The kid can shoot and handle, but, alas, Henrik Rodl 
    [whose only useful purpose in life is a stationary perimeter shot which he 
    can't make to save his life :^(] is stealing his minutes.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Spin control at its finest......

    Bad news for Travis Best fains:
    
    Chris Whitney made poor Travis look *sick* last night as Clemson pulled
    the shocker at the sedate ThrillerDome.  (Sedate until the end, that
    is.)  Whitney is a rapidly improving PG who is quick_on_quick!  Kid was
    blowing by the cement-footed Best at his leisure!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re .144
    
    >>I see UNC as having two (2) options at this point:
    
    Might those be...
    
    1. Can Snuffy, and get a coach that can get it done in crunch time,
    or..
    
    2. Petition to join the Big East...
    
    8^)
    
    Conan
    

they won't can Snuffy, so #2 looks like the best available option...

    
    Yabbut does anybody else find it slightly amusing that our resident
    ACC bigot really tries to smash the B-E but at the same time, NEVER
    MENTIONING that since 1986,  not one player from NC State has
    graduated?  Zero, zilch, nada!
    
    As Artie Johnson would say, "vewwwy intewesting but definitely not
    funny!"
    
    I remain,
    appreciative of Laugh-In's show!
    Kev
    

    Kev, I applaud your efforts to deflect ACC vs. NorthEastCorridor
    hoops comparisons.  If_n I was in your shoes, I'd do the same
    thing.
    
    Keep up the good work,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Who did NCState manage to beat in the ACCthis year?? I was surprised they
had a 1-8 record.

The Crazy Met

Actually, its kind of funny that ACCrisp, who roots for UNC, the
biggest choke team in the world, has to root for a conference
to make up for that short fall.

If he was a real main, he'd simply root for his fav teams (like
I do) and da hell with the rest of the conference.  I mean really,
is Crisp really a Duke fan (judging from his criticism of their fans,
it doesn't seem like it).  Is Crisp a Wolfpack fan?  A wake fan? etc.?

C'mon fess up Crisper.  You use the conference to hide your humilation
for backing the THRC.

JD

    Actually JD you've actually stumbled on something, kinda like Inspecter
    Closeau bumbling his way toward a crime solution.
    
    Ya see, the very *essence* of a great collegiate conference like the
    ACC is that ya can be a fan of a team and absolutely *loathe* your
    conference rivals, yet still claim a kindred bond.  It's somewhat
    analogous to gettin' into nasty fights with your brother or sister.  Ya
    hate 'em, but ja love 'em, too.  
    
    
    hth,
    
    - ACC Chris

    - a few, re. NC State.
    
    Where did this information about NCState's ZERO graduations since 1986
    come from? Is this the basketball program? Kev, whar'd you git your
    information? I find this too incredible for troof.
    
    Cain my esteemed TRUE ACC alum, NCStater TTom come forth wif da troof?
    Tis a sad day. I feel like that young tyke who said to Shoeless Joe,
    "Say it ain't so Joe."
    
    I remain,
    Hoping it's not a long TTom watch
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

Soup -

You know that rooting for teams you loathe, under the guise
of "they are brothers of the ACC" is a weak, feeble attempt
for you to try to salvage glory from teams like Duke when 
the Snufster does his two-and-a-half-pike-in-the-choke-position
during March Madness.   It is a denial mechanism invoked to
try to legitimize the "great recruiter's" clockwork failures
in producing champeens. 

Be a real main - for instance, take BC.  I loathe them. Well;
documented.  The *only* team I'd root for BC to beat in Hoops
*ever* would be the Tarhells(Tm)  - Other than that, I hope
they get stomped by everyone.  If they make the tourney, I
want them to lose in the first round.   No phoney conference
*love* like you try to pull on us.   

Unless one roots for *all* teams in a conference equally, one
can't be a complete fan of da conference.

Nice try though Soup.  Remember, no matter what happens, if
the Snufster doesn't produce with the "greatest recruitment
class of ALL time" it will be the icing on the choke cake.  Duke
or FSU or another ACC team going far in da tourney will not
diminish that fack(tm).

JD

    
    MikeL,
    
    2 sources 
    
    first there was a little 1-2 liner in the Woostah paper on Sunday.
    
    second, Dale Arnold on double eue eee eee aye reported the same thing
    on the radion and I *know* that he didn't read it in the Woostah paper
    because there's a state law preventing anything created west of 128
    from being sold inside 128!  ;^)
    
    As I recall, the NCAA was cited as the source.
    
    I remain,
    a honorable honorary member of the 4th estate!
    Kev
    

Tis true. A big GOOSE EGG BABY!

Alas this may be a_integral part to the Valvano legacy: a truly dismall
academic record. What this means is that of the current ex-Pack NBAers,
only Thurl Bailey is a graduate. Charles Shackelford, Nate McMillan, Spud
Webb, Vinnie Del Negro, Tom Gugliotta, Brian Howard, and Chuckie Brown
failed to make it. Them and every other basketball player at State.

Les Robinson inherited this situation and he and the administration have
committed to doing something about it. So far, the full extent of the
"reforms" seem to be raising the academic standards above the NCAA
requirements. And what did this do? State lost 2 players for this
semester. 

One thing that should be stated is that this is purely a hoops problem.
There is no other sport at State that doesn't graduate more than the
general student body. The football program under Dick Sheridan has been
exemplary in terms of all academic measurements including graduation
rate.

This academic report really puts the hoops program at its lowest point
since I can remember. State has had previous sanctions and penalties in
basketball, but this year has been exceptional starting with one of the
players committing suicide, Bryan Feggin who was supposed to be starting
at guard getting shot, most likely failing to win any more games and now
no body graduates. Ugh!

TTom

    
    Hey ACChris, there's an article about you, the recruiting fanatic, in
    this week's Sports Illustrated.  They even quote Dean Smith saying,
    "And then there's this Chris guy, didn't go to North Carolina, probably
    didn't even go to an ACC school, and he's more concerned with the
    players we bring in than wins and losses".  Frankly, I've got to
    commend Dean for downplaying his strength and highlighting his weakness
    like that.
    
    glenn
    

    Wake Forest pounded Duke today, handing the Devils their 2nd loss at
    home this year and 4th conference loss.  Grant Hill inexplicably only
    played 2 minutes of the 2nd half.  I'm assuming he has some type of
    injury, the seriousness of which is unknown.  At this point you'd have
    to rate Duke's chances of a regular season ACC title a long-shot.  The
    schedule is not in their favor.  
    
    Is there any more of an idiot than John Feinstein?  [no]  I personally
    can't stand him.  His books are trashy; his ego boundless.  Saw him on
    a college hoops show with Gary Williams and he was, of course,
    all-knowledgeable on every subject.  A few times Williams looked at the
    thin-lipped Duke nerd as if he wanted to lay him out right on the spot. 
    (Williams could do it too; Feinstein reminds me of the rich kid who
    nobody woulda played with except his parents sent him off to private
    school and bought all his friends.  Alas, these are the types mostly
    running America today, ... but that's another story.)
    
    Anyway, the thing that really irked me (this time) was his solution to
    the "crisis" in collegiate officiating which evidenced itself with the
    PSU game.  Feinstein sez the NCAA needs to hire "full-time" officials,
    blah blah blah.  Excuse my political incorrectness, but this reminds me
    of the typical liberal response to a problem (i.e. throw money at it).
    Every problem that rears its ugly head must have an immediate response,
    and that response should involve money, preferably tax-payers money.
    
    Fortunately Gary Williams shut him up but quick, pointing out how the
    NCAA's is so money tight right now he's not even allowed to keep on a
    3rd assistant at $16K per year.  Haw haw!!
    
    Can't stand that guy, Feinstein.  :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Hill was injured - sprained ankle or something like that.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    re: UNC > GaTech
    
    The Jackets are in a very sorry state of affairs folks.  I'd have to
    rate this as one of Bobby's worst coaching efforts in a very long time. 
    Malcom Mackey has gotta be considered a huge disapointment.  Yesterday
    he logged a complete no-show in the 2nd half (Mooseburger actually had
    pretty good insight, observing that after his ridiculously stupid
    intentional foul at the end of the first half he was completely out of
    the game.)  
    
    On a positive note for UNC, Donald Williams broke out of his shooting
    slump and the perimter shooting in general was adequate.  The defense
    was outstanding throughout, giving Tech very few good looks at the
    basket.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Haha.

Gotta love Accrisp, he loathes Feinstein so much that he somehow 
brings his kneejerk politics into it. Haw!   I'd a thunk the Crook
would love Feinstein because of "Season on the Brink".

Nice belly laugh.

gotta love Eric Montross.  I've yet to see him do anything on the
court.

After watching yesterday's games, there's no doubt that Bob Knight
is a vastly superior coach to the Snuffster.   If Snuffy was coaching
IU with IU's team, they'd a got blown out yesterday!


JD

    re: JD (Part 1; Dean)
    
    Your hoops expertise is seriously waning bub.  Making broad-stroke
    generalizations like "IU < UM if Dean coached 'em" is pure folly, not
    to mention just plain dumb.  (For the record, UNC lost by 1 to Michigan
    on a neutral court courtesy of two of the most unlikely of Wolverine
    possessions at game-end.)
    
    
    re: JD (Part 1; Montross)
    
    Once again you're proven horrendously off target.  Here's the stats
    comparing Montross against Malcolm Mackey yesterday:
    
    		M 	 FG 	 FT     REB    ASS	PF	Pts
    Montross	37	4 - 8	4 - 5	 9	1	3	12
    Mackey	34	2 - 7   3 - 3	 5	0	3	 7
    
    Considering that Montross was playing against a packed-in zone for
    virtually the entire game I'd hardly rate his game yesterday as
    sub-par. 
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Chris -

Montross didn't score a field goal in da firsted half.  He disappears
in games, -remember you'be proclaimed him the best in da land.

I go on what I see.  And I see a stiff.  I see a pro career 
possibly rivaling Joe Wolf.

I see a_ugly haircut.

In Dean I see a coach who caint coach.  Given that talent, he should
be undefeated and rolling along.   

Bob is penthouse.  Dean is outhouse.

Montross is overrated.   Matt Nover looks better than him!  HAW!

JD

    > Dean is outhouse.
    
    20-3, #3 in the USA, tied for first in the ACC.  I doubt many programs
    in the USA would mind living in that outhouse.
    
    Haw. :^|
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    UNC > Clemson (Montross 22 pts; Clemson still has never won a game
    	           in Chapel Hill, ... *EVER*.)
    
    Wake > Maryland (Too much RodneyRogers in 2nd half)
    
    FSU > NCSkate ('Noles overcome suspension of Sura & Edwards to squeeze
    		   out the 'W'.  Bummer ...)
    
    In other news, Grant Hill will be out of action for tonights Dook
    @ UVa game.  He may miss additional games.  Look for Dook to lose
    to the Cavs tonight.  Without G Hill, they are very, very ordinary
    IMHO.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>>    UNC > Clemson (Montross 22 pts; Clemson still has never won a game
    	           in Chapel Hill, ... *EVER*.)
  
 But only 7 boards. That's disgusting for a guy his size. He should average
 10+ boards a game but doesn't. Probably because Dean ain't taught him
 squat about Positioning.....

 Frankentross and Kent Benson, are they brothers????

 mike

    Now I understand why JeffJones is so distraught over his UVa fans. 
    (For the record, Jones has struggled to fill his home arena for all but
    the most important of big-time games, and has been vocal, albient
    restrainedly so, in his distaste for the snooty UVA alum's who haven't
    been turning out, and the students who apparently have gotten down on
    hoops and aren't supporting the team as in the past.)
    
    Anyway, with 5 minutes left in the yesterdays UNC (way) > UVa game the
    crowd was seriously yukkin' it up when Eric Montross (17 pts; 7 boards)
    fouled out.  Haw haw!!  Yup, it was funny all right.  Funny that when
    you get completely dominated on your home floor you steal have the guts
    to take pleasure when an opposition player fouls out and yer down by 26
    big ones.  
    
    I was laughin' pretty hard meself!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Can we all agree with JimmyValvano and conclude that DeanSmith is
    putting together one of the finest coaching efforts in his storied 32
    year career?  [yes]  
    
    Face it, folks: UNC is significantly overachieving at 23-3, #3 in the 
    USA, and #1 in the ACC.  For a team that was pre-season bottom-top10ish
    to be as high as they are despite almost a complete inability of
    anybody on the team other than DonaldWilliams to hit a wide open
    outside shot is doggone amazing.
    
    Kudos, Dean!  
    
    I'll go on record right now as stating that Carolina will NOT win a
    Title this year.  In fact, I seriously doubt this team will reach the
    Final4.  Why?  Cause we can't throw the ball in the ocean, that's why,
    and when ya git into later rounds of the tourney [assuming we survive a
    round or two on what will likely be somebody else's home floor :^(]
    you need to be able to throw the ball into the ocean, which is
    something this team can't do.
    
    23-3.  Simply amazing.
    
    Again I say, KUDOS TO DEAN!  COY!  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>  Can we all agree with JimmyValvano and conclude that DeanSmith is
>    putting together one of the finest coaching efforts in his storied 32
>    year career?  [no]  
 

We're talking about the best recruiting class of all time here folks. 


>  I'll go on record right now as stating that Carolina will NOT win a
>    Title this year.  In fact, I seriously doubt this team will reach the
>    Final4.

We're talking about the #3 ranked team in the country folks. Just like last
year when Ack Crisp wouldn't let Mr T. obfuscate his way out of saying that
Indiana should make the final 4 (rightly so) the objective sports analysts
aren't going to let Crisper get away with underrating the Baby Blews into
overachieving by getting into the big dance.

I figured this would be about the time of the year when you'd start praising
the chokemeister and setting yourself up for the big fall in the big show. I
thought you'd at least come up with something original besides the worn out
T strategy of undervaluing the regular season and the national rankings before
the march seeds even comeout....

Shame on You IggKnorr...Shame, Shame, Shame....If UNC doesn't reach the Final
Two this year it will be a Dean Choke, If they fail to make the final 4 it
will be a chokemeister supreme that will have Bob Hunt giggling for another
year when he thinks about Snuffster and Po' Po' Crisp...


Metz

    Typical Thypocrisy Metz.  Reward regular-season underachievement.
    Well I won't be part of it of your illogical and hypocritical charade.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

First AccChip - Kudos on admitting Dean is a choke artist - with
your new P-name proclaiming him Choke of the Year.

Second - how can a guy with the 'greatest recruiting team of all
time' (you've strutted yer chest about that...), a guy with the 
best big man in college hoops (you've strutted yer chest about
that), claim they are overachieving? 

HAW HAW.   The color must finally be gone from yer hiney, and you
are just waiting to get a good spanking again.

Thanks fer da laugh!


JD

>We're talking about the #3 ranked team in the country folks. Just like last
>year when Ack Crisp wouldn't let Mr T. obfuscate his way out of saying that
>Indiana should make the final 4 (rightly so) the objective sports analysts
>aren't going to let Crisper get away with underrating the Baby Blews into
>overachieving by getting into the big dance.

 I thought this was true, too.  I went back to the SPORTS_91 conference
 and went looking for proof that acChris had done just that, and could not find
 one example in either the Big 10 Bball or College Hoops discussions.
 Bob Hunt was the primary contributor to this line of reasoning, and several
 others chimed in to shout T down, but I couldn't find acChris using this
 line of reasoning.

 That doesn't mean it isn't true.  It is obvious that UNC is not overachieving
 just becuase they only have one player with lots of playing time having a
 fine outside shot.  UNC is a hugely talented team that doesn't need a lot of
 three pointers to win ball games against fine teams.  If they weren't so
 good underneath, then you can bet Dean would have been looking to the 3 more
 often during the season, and gotten more PT for his players off the bench who
 do have a better outside shot than what is normal.  But they don't need it.

>Shame on You IggKnorr...Shame, Shame, Shame....If UNC doesn't reach the Final
>Two this year it will be a Dean Choke, If they fail to make the final 4 it
>will be a chokemeister supreme that will have Bob Hunt giggling for another
>year when he thinks about Snuffster and Po' Po' Crisp...

 Yup.  Just as I consistently said to T last year about IU, there can be no
 doubt that a failure to win the regionals this year by UNC would likely be
 an underachievement.  Perhaps not a significant underachievement, as it seems
 to me that there are 7 teams this year that should win a regional, and a loss
 in a regional final to any of the other 6 wouldn't be a major underachievement,
 but UNC should be a #1 seed and favored to make the final four.

    I cain't believe it!!!!!!!!!
    
    Carolina, with a roster so chock full of HS All-Americas that their
    Intramural league champ would finish second in the Big East, a team
    that with this week's losses by Indiana and Kentucky should be the
    #1 team in the country, a squad that will no doubt garner the #1 
    seed in the East and play the first two rounds of the tourney in
    Carolina - this is a team that an allegedly loyal UNC fan doesn't
    think will make the Final Four?!?!?!?!?
    
    Believe me ACC_Chris - no on ein here is buyiong your poor-mouth act!
    
    NAZZ

    Nazz just cause our last five off the bench could contend for a
    BigLeast Title does *NOT* imply this years UNC edition is Final4
    material.  Sorry, but if DonaldWilliams doesn't shoot well, this team
    is severely limited in its ability to contend with a Top10 club.
    
    As to this "Greatest of All-Time" tag hung on the UNC Class of '93, git
    real.  One of 'em has already transferred (Rozier).  Another one has
    been a sizable disapointment (Sullivan).  A third has proven to be
    damaged goods (Reese has purty bad asthma).  That leaves Phelps and
    Montross, both of whom have come as advertised.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    An honest question, no hidden meaning or nothin':
    
    How many guys from Carolina play for the Heels?
    
    NAZZ
    
    PS - IMO, coaching, not outside shooting, depth, athleticism, or
    anything else, is the major factor in winning an NCAA title, because
    along the road to the championship there is usually one game that
    the players do not figure to win, but superior coach ing can see them
    through.  That's why UNC has only won one title despite being in two
    million consecutive sweet sixteens.

I don't have the time or energy to back through previous issues of Sprots but
if you didn't issue the greatest recruiting class of all time tag then you
were certainly thumping your chest and strutting around the barn crowing
when some paper made the claim.


Just remember...two more years for the greatest recruiting class of all time
to win a title...

And this fuax underevaluation of the star hells isn't going to fool anybody
either...


Metz

I don't know Metz. I'm sure Dean believes what Chris believes about the talent
of his club. 

Choke of the Year...gotta love that one JD....

 ;^)

    *If* Carolina beats FSU tomorrow (and I'm not at all convinced they
    will; the 'Noles give us *fits* even when they're not playing in their
    snake pit arena) they'll surely be ranked #1 in the USA on Monday. 
    That will mean "The Greatest Recruiting Class of All-Time" is currently
    considered the #1 team in the USA.  They've also all been to a Final4,
    don't forget.
    
    All in all, I ain't feelin' too sad for 'em.
    
    Heels and where they're from:
    
    Montross (Indiana)
    Phelps (NYC)
    Reese (NYC)
    Sullivan (NJ)
    Williams (North Carolina)
    Rodl (North Carolina by way of Germany)
    Lynch (Virginia)
    Calabria (Pennsylvania)
    Salvadori (Pennsylvania)
    Wenstrom (Texas)
    Geth (Virginia)
    Cherry (NJ)
    Davis (South Carolina)
    
    There's a couple other stiffs on the bench not under scholarship as far
    as I know.
    
    Next year though we'll add two (2) North Carolinians in Jerry
    Stackhouse and Jeff McInnis, plus 7-footer Zerge Zwikker from Holland
    or The Netherlands (cain't remember which).
    
    
    - ACC Chris

And as the #1 team in the nation it WILL be a major choke job if they don't
make the final 4 this year...

I expect no less out of Indiana either...

Tick,Tick,Tick...2 more years...


BTW - I expect UNC to win handily tomorrow playing at home with a potential 
#1 ranking on the line. It will be a minor choke if they fail to win by less 
than 10 and a major choke if they lose entirely...but not failure to make the
final 4 major choke quality..

Metz

    UNC is @ FSU, not the other way around.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Congrats to UNC for achieving a well-deserved and long overdue #1 ranking in
the country.   Nothing can derail the Tar Heel Express now that Dean Smith has
his players at the top of their game.    Stand back and watch a great coach
take a young, raw team and mold them into an NCAA Champion. 

And just wait til Jerry Stackhouse arrives next year.  Can you say REPEAT!!!

    > Is it too soon to use the word "dynasty"?
    
    In the words of the great one, Bob Dylan, ...
    
    "Prove to me that He's the Lord, Show Me A Sign ...
    
    What kinda sign you need?  When it all comes from within;
    What's been lost has been found, what's to come has already been!"
    				     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    In short, 16 ACC regular season titles in 32 years *IS* a dynasty.
    
    Haw haw!!
    
    As to you treacherous /Don (former Final4 entrant), the only reason
    people haven't been disagreeing wif me much lately is cause I've been
    right on virtually every count.  HTH.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Well folks, we got em where we want em.

No Carolina is #1 and the only way out is a choke job. This year will be
fun.

Hopefully, we won't just see a_excellent loss but maybe we can get a
repeat from lasted year and get Dean the bum's rush again. 

TTom

TTom, 

The only way any team can stop the UNC juggernaut is if the refs steal the
game from us.   Even then, we have so much firepower (Montross and Lynch
will be co-ACC POY) that we can overcome even the most biased officiating.
Pat Sullivan would be all Big East had he stayed in NY.   Donald "Downtown"
Williams is one of the top shooters in the game.   

With the best center in the country, and All-American small forward, and
a supporting cast that is deeper than any team in the land, nothing can
stop my Heels.    Dean Smith's early season brilliance in allowing the
UNCers to lose to teams like Michigan in order to motivate the team later
on during the ACC schedule was remarkable.    He has set up the Wolverines
to think they can beat UNC in the tournament.   Classic DEAN!   I predict
double digit victories the rest of the way.

ACCdoug

    re: Ross
    
    Heh heh!  Your foot-in-cheek replies down grading our admittedly
    suspect talent only confirm my p-name.  
    
    Dean Smith: CoY!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>>  Heh heh!  Your foot-in-cheek replies down grading our admittedly
>>  suspect talent only confirm my p-name.  

Which parts do you disagree with?  

Where would you rate Montross versus his ACC counterpart centers?    If
	he's not the best in the ACC, then when will he be?  

Where would you rate Lynch versus the other small forwards?   

Which guard combo in the country  is better than Phelps, Reese, Williams?

Which other teams in the country could start a second team of:

	Salvadori, Rodl, Sullivan, Williams, Wenstrom 

	That unit could probably finish ahead of Maryland and Clemson in ACC.


Dean's team is loaded and ready.   Even if Phelps is injured, the Tar Heels
are deep enough to compensate.   No excuses there.

Only poor coaching and/or preparation should stop this team.   If Dean hasn't
figured out how to overcome occasional outside shooting problems after 25
games, maybe he should try another profession.

Anything less than reaching the ACC final and the Final Four would be 
underachievement.

I just got off the phone with Bob Hunt.

Needless to say the man is totally and completely excited, with what I
would term an almost thigh-shuddering pleasure.

Quote "we have the set up" unquote, he said.

He sees it this way:

	o Carolina is ranked number one.

	o Come Tourney time that means that there will be 63 other
	  teams who have a chance to serve up the chicken bone.

	o Carolina will almost certainly be the #1 seed in the East,
	  and the Ivy League champ is usually the #16 seed, which means
	  that say, Penn, could do it in the first round.

	o But what Bob more realistically sees is that Carolina makes
	  it to the Sweet Sixteen, all the Baby Blew fans pull out their
	  rolls of Bounty, and then some team like Brigham Young blows
	  them away.....

To quote Bob, it could happen any time in the next four weeks.


You heard it here, from Bob first....


'Saw

    With all the "thigh-shuddering" going on in here you'd think UNC was
    suffering through a horrendous campaign, struggling to squeeze their
    way into The Big Dance.  
    
    A quick reality check reveals that this edition of Carolina basketball
    is overachieving on all counts.  A team that most people had in the
    bottom Top10 has clinched a #1 seed in the ACC Tourney and is currently
    ranked numero uno in the USA.
    
    Course I keep forgetting 'bout the MrT "Formula for Overachievement"
    followed by Weasels.  Namely, underachieve all year, have an
    end-of-season-peak, and then proclaim that "Bob is God".
    
    Bah.  Quit with the thypocrisy and admit Dean has done wonders, no,
    *miracles*, with a team that cannot shoot the ball outside of 10 feet,
    has a center who Ross sez has no moves (blah blah blah), and is
    generally void of any truly "superstar" talent.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    
    > Bah.  Quit with the thypocrisy and admit Dean has done wonders, no,
    > *miracles*, with a team that cannot shoot the ball outside of 10 feet,
    > has a center who Ross sez has no moves (blah blah blah), and is
    > generally void of any truly "superstar" talent.
      
    I will when UNC makes the Final Four.  Dean is playing under the same
    rules as every other coach, which in college basketball say "the
    regular season don't mean a damn thing" (although, yes, a conference
    championship season does, which in the ACC hasn't even started yet).
    Or at least this what I heard from you when woeful tourney underachiever 
    Billy Tubbs directed a small Oklahoma team that had no business being 
    there to the regular season #1, only to get knocked off by the Heels in 
    the second round of the NCAAs.  That season, apparently, being the
    regular season underachiever and the tourney overachiever was Dean's
    great accomplishment.
                                                                       
    > Course I keep forgetting 'bout the MrT "Formula for Overachievement"
    > followed by Weasels.  Namely, underachieve all year, have an
    > end-of-season-peak, and then proclaim that "Bob is God".
    
    When are you going to quit with the thypocrisy and admit that 30+ years
    is not some statistically insignificant trial, nor is attaining three
    titles?  Five or six years, or one title, yes, but not the same thing
    year after year after year...
    
    glenn
    
    

The real hypocrisy here is Knorr.

First we are to believe that No Carolina is devoid of any and all talent
and that the only reason they are ranked at all is cause Dean has done so
good. Yet somehow, when the team loses, it's not his fault.

I have no problem giving credit where credit is due and to this point in
the season Dean has done a commendable job. Nothing necessarily to write
home about, but a good, solid job.

Now, with that said, it clear where the blame will lie if he fails to
maintain the lofty status that has been acheived. If Dean gets the credit
then he gets the blame, as well. 

Just like the last 30 years or so (or is it 31, or 32, ...).

TTom

    So we have 1 side that thinks UNC has a lot of talent and deserves
    to be in the final four, if not taking it all.
    
    Another side that says they're overachieving with the once-called
    "Best recruiting class ever", and it's the coach who got them this
    far, but obviously can't play for them and if they choke in the
    NCAA's, it's expected.
    
    And another who thinks they're just overrated with a coach who we're
    not sure if he succumbs to the choke hold or the sleeper hold.
    
    Which is it?
    

|    So we have 1 side that thinks UNC has a lot of talent and deserves
|    to be in the final four, if not taking it all.
|    
|    Another side that says they're overachieving with the once-called
|    "Best recruiting class ever", and it's the coach who got them this
|    far, but obviously can't play for them and if they choke in the
|    NCAA's, it's expected.
|    
|    And another who thinks they're just overrated with a coach who we're
|    not sure if he succumbs to the choke hold or the sleeper hold.
|    
|    Which is it?


Sounds like that movie "The Three Faces of ACC Chris".......    

An update of some interest to Chris Knorr.

No Caroloina guard Derrick Phelps, who was Dobarded against Florida St,
has a badly bruised right elbow. He was listed as day-to-day but this
morning he was announced as questionable for the Wake Forest game
tomorrow night. X-rays showed no broken bones. Phelps did not practice
with the team yesterday.

Back to the different sides of the same story: there's only one story and
that is that the NBA factory known as No Carolina (UNC-Chapel Hill if you
will) has won a grand total of once and that was greatly helped by a
timely pass from Fred Brown to James Worthy. Them's the facks.

Now add the necessary spin to ensure that victories are the result of
Dean's genius and losses are because of injuries, refs, the other team
not realizing what's important and actually trying to win a championsip,
etc., et. al., ad nauseum, amen.

TTom

As expected UNC beat FSU by 10. Even though I had the home floors reversed
I still think that this should have been the expected outcome..

Crisp will still try to insist that the game took on mythical proportions
and that only Choke's coaching allowed the team to win...

Where is the Wake game at?


Metz

    re: WakeForest
    
    Main oh main has the Deacons media machine been crankin' out the
    hype.  This week USA Today has 'em as a featured article.  Tonight
    during the Delta Faucet Halftime Report on ESPN Rodney was the prime
    feature.  Rogers and the Deacs are suddenly media darlings, and it
    doesn't hurt that this sudden onslaught of attention has as its
    exclamation point a date with the #1 ranked North Carolina Tar Heels at
    the Dean Dome!  
    
    The thang that makes Wake so skeery is that they've got two (2) guys,
    Rogers and Randolph Childress, capable of shouldering the load
    offensively on any given night.  Suffice to say if they're both on they
    cain beat any team in the country.  They've already beaten Dook and
    absolutely blitzed Carolina in a game that simply was not close.
    The addition of Charlie Harrison (a mediocre point guard by ACC
    standards but a crucial role player) to the mix has helped, and the kid
    Blucas can definitely shoot the basketball.  Add in the very solid
    Trelonnie Owens and the overachieving Derrick Hicks and you've got the
    talent for a Final4 run.
    
    But now hoooollldd on a sec.  There's only one small problem here: Dave
    Odom.  Sorry folks, but the main does not impress.  He seems to find
    ways for his team to lose, rather than vice versa.  They're play huge
    one game, then sink to stinky depths the next.  This is why they won't
    reach the Final4.  It's also why the Phelps-less Heels will likely have
    their hands full tomorrow night.
    
    BTW, Dean has quietly inserted Donald Williams into the starting lineup
    over the loyal yet limited Henrik Rodl.  Fantastic move by
    "Michelangelo" (- Dick Vitale).  Carolina *needs* Donald so bad it's
    downright embarassing.  Also did anybody note the recent offensive
    explosion by Brian Reese?  He ripped FSU to shreds for 25 big ones
    (career high), played solid defense, and even crashed the boards a bit. 
    Bucky Waters and his sidekick were definitely smokin' some rope when
    they picked Lynch has game MVP.  No way, Jose.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>       -< Whoever said SPORTS > newspaper Sports was right. Read on ... >-

Whoever said it must not have been talking about the tripe in .203.

Let me see if'n I can get the gist of this: Odom "does not impress" and
therefore, somehow, the Heels will have "their hands full"? Great
analysis there.

Straight up, I look for the Heels to win this one. 

TTom

    You misinterpret, TTom.  Odom definitely does not impress.  However
    Wake has the kind of talent that can, in any given game, dominate.
    HTH.
    
    Given that UNC is without their heart and soul (Phelps) tonight should
    be interesting.  Defensively Derrick just might be the best defensive
    guard in the country.  He's also developed into an excellent rebounder.
    It's times like this that we can all thank Dean for grooming Donald
    Williams at the point last year.  Deano took lots of flack for this,
    playing Don out of position and all, but it's definitely helped his
    all-around game and certainly will help tonight.  Another example of
    how Dean develops the complete player.
    
    Kudos!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

For all its reputation as a great conference, I'm not so sure that the
ACC is much of a coaches league as it is a players league.  Let's run down
the head coaches  (my rating not including recruiting) :

	DUKE	- Mike Kry....ski
	UNC     - Dean Smith  
	.
	.	big gap
	.
	MARYLAND- Gary Williams
 	GA TECH - Bobby Cremins
	NC STATE- Les Robinson
	VIRGINIA- Jeff Jones
	WAKE    - Dave Odom
	FLA ST  - Pat Kennedy
        CLEMSON - Cliff Ellis

Kennedy has the talent but I have yet to see him do anything that suggests
he has any control over his players on or off the court.   Odom better get
his resume in order once Rogers leaves.   

I think the Big 10 has more top notch coaches (Knight, Keady, Ayers,
Heathcote, Davis, and potentially Stu Jackson and Parkhill) but less 
talent.

    The problem with Wake Forest is that they have 2 and only 2
    scorers.  When 1 of them is a bit off they struggle.  The line
    for this one is around 11 and you have to love the points.....
    
    Jimbo

re: .200

Yes, I'm still alive, though relatively inactive in this hectic
conference.  Actually, I went looking for the old SPORTS_91
note to see how the Dean-haters were reacting to the newest
polls, and I found that the battleground had been closed!
So, I finally found the new playground (this note), and intend
to offer some occasional sanity to the usual rantings of the
misguided non-Heel fans.

So, here's my small contribution to this "rational" debate:

Yes, sports fans, the poll takers have finally recognized what
the rest of the intelligent country already knew for a long time.
Namely, that the UNC juggernaut truly is the NUMBER ONE TEAM
IN THE NATION!  Now, on to the final four for the final coronation!


Meat ("if God isn't a Tar Heel, then why is the sky Carolina Blue") 

>Meat ("if God isn't a Tar Heel, then why is the sky Carolina Blue") 

If god is so pro Tar Heel how come Chapel Hill is in Orange County?

As for why the sky is blue, it's an illusion and I won't extend the
metaphor beyond that.

TTom

    Carolina a_11 point favorite for tonights Wake game?!  Haw haw!  Why
    don't the bookies just open up their cash drawers and hand people
    money?  Sheesh.
    
    Even if Phelps can play he's gotta be way less than 100%, and I have
    strong doubts he will play.  Even *with* Phelps I'd expect a heckuva
    closer game than 11.  Last year Wake lead UNC by > 20 points at the
    Dean Dome before an incredible Carolina 2nd half comeback.
    
    I'm hopeful the Tar Heels will rally around Derricks absence and pick
    it up a notch, otherwise I'd expect a Deacon blowout.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Chris, has Dean ever said that this was the toughest Wake team he's ever faced?

I haven't seen such triple-reverse sand bagging since football season and 
Sir Lou of Holtz.

=Bob=

>                       -< Po' UNC, Po' Dean, Po' Chris >-
>
>Chris, has Dean ever said that this was the toughest Wake team he's ever faced?
>
>I haven't seen such triple-reverse sand bagging since football season and 
>Sir Lou of Holtz.

Yeah, it DOES get deep around here don't it?

Good lord, if they just shoveled all of this stuff up, and let it ferment
a bit, you'd have enough methane gas to heat all of the USA all winter....

    re: =Bob= | 1Way
    
    Here I aim, trying to put a little jingle in both of your pockets, and
    what do I get?!  Ridicule and accusations that me and Dean are pulling
    a LouHoltz.
    
    Blah.  Mark my words, Carolina *might* win, but no way no how will they
    cover a ridiculous 11 point spread against a high powered team like
    Wake.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Dats right, the number one team in the country, great overacheivers they  are, 
lead by the greatest coach of all time, will definitely be lucky to beat the 
16th team in the country, who havbe already lost more conference games than the
number 1 team has left.  Makes sense to me.

I'm getting on the phone right now to bet my house money on Wake.

Oh, where was that swamp land again?

=Bob=

>I'm getting on the phone right now to bet my house money on Wake.
>
>Oh, where was that swamp land again?

And after I win, I'm gonna buy that bridge!  Finally!!!!!

    Carolina by 20+ tonight.  You need more than two dogs to mush
    that sleigh.
    
    NAZZ

Wake @ the scream dome...The domers being the #1 ranked team in the country
led by the greatest recruiting class of all time and with NukeWideBodyStud 
Eric Montross clogging the paint and pulling down the boards coached by the
living legend hisself are ranked to win by 11 over wake forest...

Sounds about right to me...


In fact I expect the blews to win by 15 dominating the inside and daring wake
to bomb from downtown. 

Your objective talent analyzer,

 Metz

	If you want to make money take 'Suuff -11.  Course if this were a 
tournament game...

				/Don

    Before any of you suckers, er, noters, show up at my doorstep with
    suspicious looking violin cases in one hand and empty wallets in the
    other, remember this:
    
    I was falsely led to believe by TTom that Derrick Phelps was
    questionable for the game, falsely assuming that even if he *did* play
    a few minutes here or there it would be strictly a token appearance.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Fergit it, Chris.  Your credibility is shot to hell...
    
    glenn
    

Whoa is me, whoa is me.

Here I was believing my pal ACC Chris, based upon his superior knowledge of the
ACC, N. Carolina and the irrepressible Dean Smif.  So what did I do?  A quick 
call to my local bookie, and I bet the McCullough family house fund on those
hoop studs from the powerhouse known as Wake Forest.

Imagine my chagrin upon tuning into ESPN lasted night, and seeing that, somehow,
against all odds, the old master, Dean hisself, was able to inspire this group
of underacheivers to go out and kick butt against the superior group.  Why I'm
sure Mr. Phelpps spent the day incapacitated, but wanted to go out and win so 
badly for Dean, that he didn't let anything stop him.

So picture, if you will, Po' Bob at 8:45 lasted night, having to explain to 
his wife and two young daughters, how we would probably never leave our modest
condo, and would have to withdraw the bid we put on the new house, the previous
day.  The looks on their faces will stay with me forever.

Say Chris, would you by any chance have a spare $50,000 for Po' Bob.



=Bob=

    Chris, Chris, Chris,
    Main, you shoulda been one of the 4Tops, you spinnin' so much.  You
    probly was the subject of BST's "Spinning Wheel"
    Obfuscate, obfuscate, obfuscate... You make my ol' buddy pal_a_mine
    LouHoltz look like a straight arrow. What sandbaggin'!!
    
    I watched that game last night and NOOOOOO contest. Main, you're MUCH
    worse than I is about ND. Whew, how cain you keep yo' spins straight?
    
    Lemmee tell ya, quit puttin' down yo' TwinMonsters, Count Chocula and
    Frankenberry, wiilya!!?? They was dominatin'!
    
    So what is it now? They should be the prohibitive fav to take the
    ACC tournament.  Final Four? Two? Champeen? Belly up!! 
    
    
    MikeL
    

    So What was the score?
    
    REK

    Okay, I admit it: North Carolina put on a throughly impressive clinic
    last night, 'specially in the first half.  I told the wifer after half
    #1 that what I'd just watch could only be described as poetry.  Indeed,
    a beautiful artistic expression by the master himself, Dean Smith.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re: Bob losing his house and possessions all because of TTom's bad
        scouting report 
    
    Sorry 'bout that.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    And the actual line was 15.5  The men in Vegas and other small towns
    around the country made a killing on that game.  I unfortunately
    did not get to witness it.  I did see BC get pounded though.  
    
    Jimbo

    Let me be the first to throw $.25 into the hat for poor Bob
    McCullough.  Bewing taken in by a 'Heel is about as low as a
    person can get.
    
    NAZZ

What a kind soul.  

>    Let me be the first to throw $.25 into the hat for poor Bob
>    McCullough.  Bewing taken in by a 'Heel is about as low as a
>    person can get.
    
Amen.

    And his daughter just got a tooth... I don't know what to say =Bob=...

    re: Meat and the color of the sky
    
    When UNC orders uniforms they specify Columbia Blue as the color.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

To top it all off, that ultimate baby-blue stud, Mr. Phelpps scored all of 
four (4) points lasted night.  Even if he didn't play, and his substitute 
didn't score, I still would be headed for the po' house.

Oh well, I just have to tell Melanie that she cain't grow any more teef, we
cain't afford them.

=Po' Bob=

    
>>To top it all off, that ultimate baby-blue stud, Mr. Phelpps scored all of 
>>four (4) points lasted night.
    
    Guess he chose not to accept the mission, and self destructed, eh???
    
    JaKe
    

So I guess there is no chance of someone actually posting the score in here, huh?

Billl

    Wake Forest n
    UNC n+18.
    
    
    UNC 83, Wake 65.
     

    Please people, don't embarass yourselves by equating points scored with
    the value of a PG.  Prior to coming to North Carolina the line on
    Derrick Phelps was that he could dominate a game without scoring a
    single point.  While "dominate" may be a strong word, this kid is the
    absolute heart and soul of the Tar Heels.  He's intelligent, unselfish,
    a strong rebounder from the guard position, an excellent passer, and 
    perhaps the best defensive player in the USA.  (Easily the best
    defensive player for Carolina.)
    
    Last night on Dean's coaches show he went so far as to state that he
    felt he could afford to lose *anybody* except for Derrick.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Number one Tar Heels are on the cover of this week's Sports Illustrated...
the setup this year for a thigh-shuddering finish is all but complete.
All we need now is for the ACC season to end with no injured key players.
(Injured meaning out of the lineup like Alan Henderson at IU)

A few subtle digs at Dean in the article.   Picture of Dean clapping
and grimacing on the bench while Montross and Sullivan whoop it up
beside him - caption "Dean Smith showing his usual exhuberance".
Lot of Dean jealousy of Duke.

---

Let's get this straight now.. in order to dodge the underachiever tag this
year, the Heels must at least (in my view)

	A) Win the ACC Tournament and make the NCAA Final Eight
or	B) Lose in the Final of the ACC Tournament and make the Final Four

Right, Chris?   Can you define what you would consider meeting your
expectations now before the tournament begins?


---

John Feinstein was quoted in the local player in an article about coaches
with strong control over their programs.

	"The next original quote out of the Carolina lockerroom will be
	 the first"
---

Shouldn't the #1 team at the end of the season be the odds on favorite to 
win the tournament?

    "odds-on" favorite?  Gimme a break.
    
    You folks are terrific.  You love it now that UNC is ranked #1,
    because now ANY finish less than #1 will only add to your Snuffy
    attacks.  
    
    Will you apply the same criteria to Mr. Booby Knight?  He was
    (I think, and I'm sure you'll politely correct me if I'm wrong)
    ranked #1 at the start of the season, and he's been right up there
    in #1 or #2 for much of the season.  So, I'm sure you'll agree
    that any finish less than the final 2 would be underachieving...right?
    And, if (heaven forbid!) he doesn't make the final four, then
    that would be an outright CHOKE...right?????
    
    Those polls are pure BS, except as a rough way of determining who
    are the best overall teams in the nation (ie, the top 20).  Comparing
    #n to #n+1 is pure hogwash.  Any team in the top 10 can beat
    any other team in the top 10 on any given night (witness Wake's
    blowout of UNC, and then UNC's near-blowout of Wake).
    
    UNC started out the season ranked (I think) around #6.  Whatever
    you do, don't give Dean credit for an outstanding record in the
    finest conference, and for consistently moving the team up the
    rankings.  Let's only focus on where he finishes in the tournament!
    If he fails to win it all...then he's a total CHOKE....right???
    
    Dean has created over the last 25 years one of the finest records
    in all of B-ball.  Would I have liked to see him win at least
    one more championship?....sure, that would have been nice.
    But, according to the logic that only the championship matters,
    then we should rank the coach of Texas Western (now, UTEP)
    as equal to Dean in overall record...right?  Or, Rollie Massimino
    should be equated with Dean and John Thompson in overall
    achievement....right?
    
    So, enjoy the tournament.  I certainly hope UNC wins it, and they
    have as good a chance as anybody.  But, if they don't, I know many
    voices here will be right there to trumpet Dean's incompetence
    to the world.
    
    
    now, back to your regularly scheduled program......
    
    
    Meat
    

    
    Naw, Carolina doesn't have to win the NCAAs this year to prove Dean's
    merit.  The Final Four will do.  In the SI article, Dean says he
    feels good about the Heels' chances for the Final Four.  Ya see, in
    opposition to that bull ACChris throws around about meaningless
    end-of-season peaks, Dean Smith does care about NCAA tournament play  
    with the goal being to win it all.
    
    Last year I said that Carolina should be expected to make the Final 8
    and Indiana the Final 4, and they both made it that far.  This year
    it's Final 4 for both.
    
    glenn
    

    
    > -< Yes, there are rational Dean-supporters out there >-
    
    Talk about an oxymoron
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
        Doesn't Duke play NC one more time before the regular season is
    over? If they do Nc won't be #1 after that.
    
       Chappy

    I don't think so...
    

    Where weasel logic completely falls apart is when they paint the
    picture that you're *better off* underachieving during the regular
    season.  Somehow their twisted logic dictates that losing regular
    season games (the more the better, apparently) sets the stage for the
    tournament, where if a few games are won (or even a Title) it marks the
    man as > Dean.
    
    Bah.  Dean is the *master* of consistent excellence.  His teams at
    worst even achieve during the season, more often than not overachieve.
    (The latter is the case this year, BTW.)  His NCAA record is nothing to
    sneeze at. (9 Final 4's, more NCAA wins than any coach in history, 12
    straight Sweet 16's.)
    
    Will he win a Title this year?  Dunno - the odds are against it.  Does
    it matter?  Yes, .... but mostly no.  The man has nothing to prove to
    me, that's for sure.  His integrity is above reproach (BTW, USA Today
    reported yesterday he and his wife just donated $100K to UNC-CH.  They
    did not want this publicized, which is most Dean-like, but the
    university twisted his arm to make it known to encourage other donors);
    his graduation percentage is absolutely top-notch; his ex-players
    worship the ground he walks on; he puts the success of others above his
    own; he knows how to win with class, ... and lose with class.
    
    In sum, I guess his greatest "sin" is not providing more quotables for
    idiots like John Feinstein.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

I predict that Dean/NC will either win the title, or they won't...

    Bob,
    
    Was .256 written be Lindsey and Melanie??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

	Wow! now I know what a fish must feel like on opening day of 
	fishing season...

	So many baited hooks and so little time.

	Billl

>	Wow! now I know what a fish must feel like on opening day of 
>	fishing season...
>
>	So many baited hooks and so little time.

Speaking of fish and fish hooks, I read Hemingway's "The Old Man and the Sea"
over the weekend.

At first it kind of reminded me of Snuffy, but then I realized that in
the end the old man really won.....


'Saw

    In a chapter from the "Isn't Life Strange" book, all Carolina bashers
    are pleased as punch this morning after the Tar Heels smacked
    arch-rival Dook, finishing the season at 26-3, winning the ACC
    (mythical) regular season Title, sowing up a #1 seed in the East
    (therefore playing @ nearby Winston Salem, and earning a #1 seed in the
    ACC tourney.  Meanwhile ACC Chris, a noteworthy UNC fan, is hanging
    his haid in sadness over the disasterously dominating 'W'.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Whyzzat ACChris - would an excellent loss been more satisfying?

With such dominance over last year's champ, I don't see how the Heels can be
anything but the odds on favorite to win it all.

Dean Smith has Lenny Wirtz in his back pocket... 

The intentional foul call on Lang was a joke as was the "let 'em play"
no-calls which favored UNC.   I tell you, what's going to bring the Heels
down in the tournament is an officiating crew that is unafraid to call the
numerous fouls against the UNC guards out top or to call the first three
second violation against Montross this year.    Duke was playing without
Grant Hill so I don't know how much you can make of this victory.

Pat Sullivan is the worst player getting the most minutes in the ACC.  


I watched Bob Ryan on ESPN Faceoff Sunday morning describing how Bobby Hurley
is the best player in college basketball.   Ha ha... The kid shoots right
near 40% in college (has never improved in four years), does not have NBA
range on the three pointer and can't defend a big guard.   I'll be surprised
if he turns out as good as Scott Skiles, nevermind being the next Jon Stockton.
Lottery pick, ho ho!    I was much more impressed with Jason Kidd who leads the
country in steals as a freshman, can create his own shot, is a more active 
defender, is 6'4", and is on par with Hurley as a passer.

UNC's road to the ACC title will have them playing the Maryland/NC State 
winner, then the Wake Forest/Virginia winner... then on to play the (most
likely) Duke vs Fla State winner.   The play-in game (NC St./Maryland) starts
Thursday, then a quad-header on Friday (all four games on ESPN starting at
noon).

    Tis certain sweet to beat the dreaded Dookies.  One item that is
    somewhat noteworthy though is that Carolina has been beating good teams
    that are missing key components.  Duke was without Grant Hill.  Florida
    State didn't have Charlie Ward.  Hence, while the W's don't necessarily
    need asterisks next to 'em, the relatively wide point spreads involved
    in both games are no doubt misleading.  (FWIW, I don't think Duke
    woulda won yesterday even *with* G.Hill.  UNC was on a mission, and the
    defensive intensity was absolutely top-shelf.  When you factor in that
    Donald Williams was on fire from the outside, I just can't see anybody
    in the USA coming outa the Dean Dome wif a 'W'.)
    
    On to the ACC Tournament ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

    re: Ross
    
    Forgot about the obligatory "UNC won so ref's musta sipped" Weasel
    response.
    
    tanks for the refresher ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    	Tommy, those ESPN features with writers (FaceOff, SportsReporters)
    are as phony as you get.  The sportswriters get their scripts and
    rehearse just like 'rasslin.  The only writer that has any
    entertainment value is Conlin the guy from Philly.  So it's
    questionable as to whether or not Ryan really feels that way about
    Hurley.
    
    	Hey ACC this week's SI says that this North Carolina team is
    it's best since the FauxChampion, so anything less than a Final
    Four appearance is serious underachievement.
    
    				/Don

UNC didn't win because the refs were lousy yesterday... They forced Duke and
especially Hurley into too many turnovers early in the game.   The refs did
kill any hope for a  potential comeback though with the joke call on Lang and
the followup T on Hurley.

What I did say was to not be surprised  if the Tar Heels get called for some
fouls later on in the NCAA tournament by a ref crew not used to their 
trapping defense.   They get away with a lot of hacking, bumping, etc. out
top right now.   If Phelps and/or Williams get three early fouls in a game,
watch out.   Rodl and Reese will probably have to step up or else UNC will
go down.

    Dean might just pull it off this season.  His team does seem to be
    peaking at the right time.  And I've got to admit that Dean has
    improved with age, making adjustments and seemingly not being so rigid
    in his player deployment.  This is not the same Dean Smith who would
    force the more talented team into the 4-corners too early...
    
    glenn
    

    re: Hurley
    
    Bob stunk it up big-time yesterday, but give credit to Phelps.  Guy is
    a *tremendous* defensive player, pure and simple.  I can't remember a
    single time Hurley beat Phelps off the dribble.  The few times Bob did
    drive it was cause somebody else had picked him up.  Also for some
    reason or other Bobby always plays lousy at the DeanDome.  His freshman
    year King Rice made him look absolutely *sick*.
    
    Derrick had a great quote in USA Today, today.  Says the strategy was
    to take away his passes.  "Make him take some goofy shot on the
    penetration" was his quote.  Haw haw!  "Goofy" pretty much sums up his
    game yesterday.
    
    Despite his bad games @ UNC you'd be a fool not to point out that Bobby
    Hurley has been a truly *GREAT* collegian.  He's the all-time assists
    leader, has been to 3 Finals, won 2 Titles.  He's awesome.  Does this
    mean he'll be a great pro, or even a good one?  No.  If he bombs in the
    NBA does this detract from his collegiate career?  Absolutely not.
    
    I feel the same about Hurley as I did Doug Flutie.  Guy had a great
    collegiate career, plain and simple.  The pro game is not identical to
    the collegiate game in either football or basketball.  Certain players
    are better suited to one or the other.  It's entirely possible Hurley's
    game is not a great match for the pros, but don't confuse that
    speculation with him being an inferior player, cause he's not.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

    I personally still feel UNC is overrated at this point, but I do agree
    with Waugamain that Dean is on top of his coaching game.  I commented
    earlier this year after the Wake Forest blowout 'L' that Carolina was
    severely limited offensively cause of the bad outside shooting.  While
    that's still an achilles Heel Dean has completely loosened the reigns
    on Donald Williams and also inserted him the starting lineup over Rodl. 
    He's also seeing the lions share of minutes.  (Rodl's only getting
    12-15 minutes p/ game, some of those at PG.)
    
    The other factor that really helps offensively is Brian Reese.  Valvano
    was wrong yesterday in saying that, other than Williams, Rodl's the
    only one who'll take a 3.  Brian Reese will take that shot and hit it. 
    When he makes that shot he's a *tremendous* offensive player, cause his
    first step is lightning quick and his airborn acceleration
    mind-boggling.  Dean has steadly increased Reese's PT over the awful
    Pat Sullivan, and now Pat is only getting 12-15 minutes per game.  (YEE
    HAA!!!)
    
    Generally, Dean is substituting less.  Despite all the talk of how deep
    UNC is, I really feel that for this team to reach the promised land
    (New Orleans) it'll be the Five (5) of Montross, Lynch, Reese,
    Williams, and Phelps who'll carry 'em.  Sullivan and Rodl are virtually
    useless offensively.  Salvadori is the only sub of noteworthy talent,
    and he's often playing out of position at PF thanks to the Clifford
    Rozier defection.
    
    Finally, Dean isn't so stubborn as to refuse to call a time-out. 
    Yesterday during Duke's mini-run in the 2nd half he called a crucial
    TO.  Historically he *hates* to do this, and I've seen more than one
    game get away as a result.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    	So ACC, could it be that SI is incorrect in their assessment
    of UNC's talent?
    
    				/Don

<    Next year though we'll add two (2) North Carolinians in Jerry
<    Stackhouse and Jeff McInnis, plus 7-footer Zerge Zwikker from Holland
<    or The Netherlands (cain't remember which).
    
<    - ACC Chris
    
    A Little late but Holland is the Netherlands 
    
    Finally got Sports Illustrated last night.  I don't understand why
    Montross isn't Hyped more.
    
    I consider him to be best player I've seen this year.  But I don't
    watch that much but this note has sparked my interest again.
    
    I thought key to N.C. Wake was Dean calling time out and (apparently)
    telling guards to get the ball in to the big geek which they promptly 
    did and when Wake compensated the guards were free to throw it up.
    
    This won't be the first time I am seeing something which no one else is
    seeing but in my humble opine Eric M is just a tremendous player.
    
    over-the-hill bill

Besides dunking an offensive rebound or a pass in from the UNC guards, what
skills does Montross have?

	Can he create his own shot?  			 No.
	Is he a great defensive center?        		 No.
	Can he pass the ball out of the low post?        No.
	Can he shoot free throws at a decent %?		 No.
	Is he the best rebounder on the team?		 No.

So besides being an effective low-post center against a weak crop of
ACC centers, what makes him tremendous?   Compare his stats and his game
against the great college centers - Ewing, Shaq, Sampson, Robinson - and
he's nothing too remarkable.   In fact, I'd like to know whether people
who saw Brad Daugherty and Joe Wolf play for Dean can compare whether
Montross' stats or play is the same, better, or worse than those two.

Remember, Montross was considered by many to be the top H.S. prospect
coming out of Lawrence North H.S. (Indianapolis) three years ago.   Other
top rated freshman (Jason Kidd this year, Webber last year) seem to make
instant impact and not require years of "development".   I think Montross
is a decent player.  I think if he had played at Indiana or Michigan, he
would have been the same player much sooner.  

If I were advising Eric, I'd tell him to come out for the NBA draft
this year.   I would bet he'd go in the first 10 easily (depending on
who else comes out).   If he stays, he'll be under the microscope next
year.

and we all know that Dean advises his players to do what's best for them just
like he did for JR....

 ;^&)

    Doug Ross is allied with every coach in the ACC (except Dean, o'course)
    who'd just *luv* to see Montross out on the perimeter "creating his own
    shot".  Haw haw haw!!
    
    The fact of the matter is, Eric is not David Robinson.  He's an
    extremely large man who has no desire to pretend he's anything more
    than a center who knows what to do with the ball in the low post.
    
    I passed along some e-mail to Ross recently pointing out quotes from
    numerous ACC coaches who plainly state that, if you want to beat North
    Carolina, you absolutely must contain Montross.  If you let him get the
    ball inside, it's lights out.  His conversion percentage is way too
    high, plus he'll foul out your entire front line.
    
    This is not to say he can't improve his game, but you'd have to be
    blind to not recognize how far this kids game has come.  Only downside
    is he's now considering going pro early.  :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

ACChris,

I realize you are one of those vertically challenged individuals, so that leads
you to think that "creating your own shot" means driving from the perimeter. 
:-)   A more general definition would be: being able to get the ball and take
it either by dribbling, faking, or jumping so that you increase your
probability of hitting the shot.   For big men, Kevin McHale is the classic
example of creating your own shot.  Montross' game more closely resembles Mark
Eaton. Montross doesn't know anything about ball faking, pivoting, turnaround
jump shots, hooks, etc.    His offense is limited  to "ME GET BALL!  ME SLAM
BALL!"  Yes, he's effective at what Dean's offense gives him.   I personnally
find Cherokee Parks to be a better overall player with greater longterm pro
potential.


You didn't respond to the questions I asked about his other skills.  

Is he a great defensive center?   Is he a good rebounder (7.4 rpg) for
his size?   Can he pass the ball from the low post?     

How does he compare to Joe Wolf and Daugherty at the same point?   As I 
recall, Wolf actually had a jumpshot from the baseline.

What took him so long to reach his potential (if you call 15 ppg 7.4 rpg
reaching the potential of the best big man coming out of H.S.)?  

Since I didn't get an answer in the Sonics note...

Whatever happened to Chris Corchiani from State? Is he burined on the
bench of some NBA team...I always thought he'd make a decent Scott Skiles
type guard in the pros. Is he a defensive liability or something ?

Metz

    Cherokee Parks, ... > Eric Montross?!  Ho ho!  I suppose if you're
    going on potential you could make the argument, but hey, Jerry
    Stackhouse probably has as much "potential" as MJ.  Doesn't exactly
    make 'em equal though, does it?!
    
    Your big mistake Ross is not accepting players for what they are. 
    Sometimes you must evaluate a player based on what he *can* do, not
    what he can't.  There's not a collegian in the country other than Eric
    Montross who stands even the slightest chance of slowing down a Shaq, a
    Ewing, or a Olajuwan.  Montross is *BIG*.  REEEL BIG.  He knows what
    his strengths are and, more importantly, what his limits are.  Nothing
    peeves an NBA GM more than a 7-footer who wants to be a guard.  This is
    why the pro scouts are so high on him.
    
    Your 2nd biggest mistake (and you've been makin' this one for a very
    long time) is evaluating a player based on some quantitative analysis
    of his stats.  There's much more to a player like Montross than what
    will show up in the books.  Is he good defensively?  You bet he is.  A
    guy that big has an impact without doing much of anything.  Does he
    block alot of shots?  Nope.  Limited arm reach and he doesn't get off
    the floor very well.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

I notice you don't dare touch the rebounding there Chris. Can't say I blame you.
A 7 fter that close to the basket averaging 7 boards a game is pretty paltry.
Heck, Joey Brown at 5'10" for Run D&C Gougetown average 5+ a game.....He may
not be a defensive liabilty now but in the pros with that speed? Why are GM's
high on him? Only reasons I can think of are 7 feet, weight and skin pigmentation

 mike

ACChris,

Let's get this straight.. you don't consider the fact that George Lynch
outrebounds Montross or  that Cherokee Parks has a better FG% (he's in the
top few in the COUNTRY) and rebound
average than Montross to have any significance?   And that Eric's defensive
talent is simply a matter of him standing under the basket just being Eric?   
That's an easy copout. 

Noone ever expected Montross to be a point guard... but I would guess
NBA scouts would wonder if Montross could chase after David Robinson or
dunk over Patrick Ewing (that is if he ever got the ball in the first place).
Is Montross better than Rik Smits?   If not, why not.  If yes, then he
should go pro this year.    And please don't say he'll develop into a 
better pro center.  If that's the case, then Dean has done him a disservice.

Montross is not a stiff.   But he has yet to show anything except the ability
to dunk the ball under the basket.   And you've yet to offer any support
otherwise either.

UNC reject (remember all the bad things ACChris had to say about him) Cliff
Rozier was named a unanimous ALL-METRO selection for Louisville this year.
Big Cliff (who is able to get double figures in rebounds unlike Montross)
averaged 15.6 points and 11.2 rebounds.     Dean's gonna miss Rozier big
time when Lynch is gone next year and its up to Montross and Pat Sullivan :-)
to grab the big rebound.

---

If Montross were to go pro, what would Carolina look like next year:

	Salvadori, Sullivan, Williams, Phelps, Reese
	Stackhouse and Zwikker?

Ugh.

---

This pulled off the usenet:

>DEFINITION: A team UNDER-performs in the NCAA tournament if they don't get
>    to the round predicted by their seeding.
>Since seedings were first made public (1979), UNC has:
>    performed exactly according to seed 7 times (82,83,85,86,88,91,92)
>    performed better than their seed 2 times (81,90)
>    performed lower than their seed 5 times (79,80,84,87,89)
>i think it's fair to say they've cumulatively underperformed (5>2). Whether
>they've consistently underperformed boils down to how you view a 5/14? I
>don't want to start another war with the UNC gang here - draw your own
>conclusions.

> If Montross were to go pro, what would Carolina look like next year:
> 	Salvadori, Sullivan, Williams, Phelps, Reese
> 	Stackhouse and Zwikker?

What so bad about that. Would kinda be nice to watch UNCin decline

The Crazy Met

    
>DEFINITION: A team UNDER-performs in the NCAA tournament if they don't get
>    to the round predicted by their seeding.
>Since seedings were first made public (1979), UNC has:
>    performed exactly according to seed 7 times (82,83,85,86,88,91,92)
>    performed better than their seed 2 times (81,90)
>    performed lower than their seed 5 times (79,80,84,87,89)
>i think it's fair to say they've cumulatively underperformed (5>2). Whether
>they've consistently underperformed boils down to how you view a 5/14? I
>don't want to start another war with the UNC gang here - draw your own
>conclusions.
    
    Wow, this battle is being waged on the Usenet, too?  In fairness, the
    higher a team is consistently seeded, the less likely they are to meet
    their "expectation" even if they perform exactly at the level they did
    in the regular season, based on probability (for example, a #1 seed is
    really up against tough odds, having to advance to the finals to
    "overperform").  I still think UNC has underperformed, but this system
    exaggerates the results...
         
    glenn
     

I would guess that Duke would probably overperform given that criteria.

The Crazy Met

    
> I would guess that Duke would probably overperform given that criteria.
    
    Prob'ly.  Duke has been out-of-this-world in the past decade...
    
    glenn
    

    The other problem with the Internet algorithm is that it rewards
    regular season underachievement.  Dean's philosophy encourages solid
    performance over a full season.  16 ACC regular season titles in 32
    years playing in the toughest basketball conference in America is
    testimony to this.  Based on the formula presented, Carolina actually
    gets *penalyzed* for this.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    -1,
    With that last gem, you should be in the Clinton cabinet
    
    

    First ACC-C, I have never been a N.C. rooter, at least not from 1970s
    on when Dean started the four-corners.  Did they ever play one of the
    Wooden UCLA teams?  I would have rooted for them then.
    
    Don't usually know why I root for one and not another.  I am currently
    a Scott Skiles fan for absolutely no good reason.
    
    I think Montross stats as with most college stats are totally
    meaningless just like Cal Cheaney's.  His major talent is a kinetic
    energy, (yes moreso on offense) relentlessly grabbing position on
    offense.  He dunks simply because that is the entire scheme that Dean
    has for him; get the ball inside and if you can dunk do it else send it
    back outside.
    
    But those primadonnas (you did say top recruiting class?) better get it
    in to him and not horse around trying to do it themselves.  If they
    understand that his effectiveness will make them effective then they
    have a chance.
    
    My prediction is they will ignore Montross somewhere along the line and
    get beat.  I would love to see Montross and Webber at it - they played
    in Hawaii earlier how did that turn out (I think Michigan won).
    
    Finally I think being white will work against him as a pro prospect
    
    I would compare him most to Dave Cowens whom I never saw in college.
    We'll never know if he can shoot beyond 10' as Dean would jail him if
    he tried.
    
    Bill (watch out for friars if they make it - I was wondering if they
    would ever harness that talent)

re: .291,.290

.290 would have made MrT proud!

re: .292

Michigan beat UNCby 1 point earlier this season in Hawaii

The Crazy Met

Virginia beat Wake Forest in today's first ACC tournament game, 61-57.
The Tar Heels are now playing Maryland (who beat NC State easily last night).
FYI Eric Montross did not start for the Heels and there's been no info
from Secret Agent Smith yet as to why.  He was inserted into the game after
two minutes.

    Georgia Tech beat UNC 77-75 to win the ACC tournament. What
    anticipation for Monday we get to see notes from both ACC Crisp and
    Mike H. (see Suns note) regrarding their teams exemplary showings.
    UNC missed their last 5 foul shots, GT hit their final 8 or 10.
    
    Will be interesting to see if UNC will get a #1 seed. If they do I
    suspect that the #1 seeds will be:
    
    East: Michigan
    South East: Kentucky
    Midwest: Indiana
    West: UNC
    
    However, it is very possible Arizona will now get the West #1 seed and
    UNC will get #2 in the East. We'll know in 1.5 hours.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    All this conference tourney nonsense meant is that according to
    Crisp's interpretation, UNC will overachieve if they make it to the
    final 8. This here game jest gives all Heel apologists an out.
    As T would say, simple money-grubbing baloney. Just ask Syracuse
    or Mike Tranghese in no specific order.
    
    ugh,
    MikeL
    

    Congrats to GaTech for winning the ACC Mens Basketball Title over the
    Phelps-less Tar Heels.  James Forrest played "Man Among Boys"
    basketball for the entire weekend.  Truly an awesome display.  I'm
    happy for Tech but, of course, disapointed in the 'L'.  Poor free throw
    shooting down the stretch really hurt.  Rodl (who IMO is virtually
    useless) clanged 2 at the 3 minute mark.  Instead of down 2, UNC was
    down 4 and we were playing catch up the rest of the way.
    
    As it turns out, the 'L' is relatively easy to swallow since:
    
    A) Phelps nasty injury doesn't appear too serious.  He's expected to
       play this week;
    
    B) The game did not have any impact on NCAA seedings.  (Arizona the #1
       seed over UNC in the East cause of the Tech 'L'?!  Haw ho ho!)
    
    I don't believe in that stuff 'bout how "Now Coach Really Has Their
    Attention" jive-bull after a loss, but UNC can minimize the potential
    confidence loss by recognizing that they played the game without their
    heart_and_soul (Phelps) and Tech still had to play some awfully good
    basketball to beat 'em.
    
    BTW, Keith Booth, a monster talent, inked with Maryland.  Kudo's for
    coach Williams, who's finally got the Terps headed in the right
    direction with back-to-back solid recruiting campaigns.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    BTW, UNC is considered to have the easiest path to the Final 4...
    

    Reread my note, the possibility was Arizona with the #1 seed in the
    West, Michigan #1 in the East. 
    
    The East bracket should be a cakewalk for UNC. Cincinatti as #2 and
    UMass as #3, they have gotta be kidding! Midwest has Indiana, Duke, and
    Kansas. Somehow Kansas as a #2 and Duke as #3 are a bit more potent
    than Cincinatti and UMass. 
    
    Of course if UNC does not get to the Final 4 they will have no possible
    excuse.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Heard on one of the tourney preview shows:
    
    UNC will not have to take off their warmups to get to the final 8. The 
    East Regional is pathetic. UNC will really have to choke to not get to
    New Orleans.
    
    Florida State is a very shaky looking number 3 seed. ACC teams did not
    seem to be hurt by bad  tourney performances but UVA and Ga. Tech saw
    their stock rise.
    
    Duke may have been a 2 seed. If Grant Hill is healthy they'll be back
    in the final 4 again especially if Allan Henderson isn't healthy. Seton 
    Hall-UK should be a great final and Michigan is the only team that can
    beat Michigan in the west.
    
    So the semis should be Duke-UNC and Kentucky-Michigan with Duke meeting 
    Michigan and the Wolverines finally getting their revenge.
    
    But if Grant Hill goes down,Duke won't get out of the regionals. The
    last four teams Duke beat last year (Seton Hall,KY,IU and Michigan) 
    all have a good chance to meet Duke along the way as well as 1991
    finalist Kansas.

    If UNC does not get a real ealthy Phelps back and a team can contain
    Montross while the outside shooting dies for a game .... But yeah
    it would take a choke for UNC to not get to the Final 4.
    
    Duke faces a real tough road. They potentially face Kansas and Indiana
    in one weekend; VERY tough. That is what makes the #1 seed so
    important, not having to face #2 or #3 until the round of 8.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

 Cmon now Chrisper lot's belly up to bar and please explain how
 Bobby can loose a player of Alan Henderson's talent and win but
 Dean loose a Phelps and can't? I mean kinda shoots a lot of holes
 in you're who's better mwho's best theories????

  mike

    There's a bit of a difference beating a Wisconsin without a key player
    than beating a Georgia Tech.
    
    In any case, I'm not making excuses.  Tech played well and deserved to
    win.  It's safe to say neither Indiana or Carolina will reach the
    Promised Land without (respectively) Henderson and Phelps.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Do I dare blame yesterday's Tar Heel loss to Tech on Dean Smith?   I have to.
Dean pulled one of his classic overcoaching routines yesterday, playing his
subs far too much for a title game.   There is no reason at all for Montross
to sit as much as he does.  There was no reason for guys like Scott Cherry
and Calabria to be getting minutes in a tight game of such importance.  
What was the point?

No one has mentioned that Dean got away with going WAY out of the coaching
box to dispute the bench technical.   He did have a nice Bobby Knight-style
glare at the kid who got the T.  (Which was deserved anyway...  They were
moaning about a supposed non-call on Forrest knocking down Montross with
a shoulder after a rebound.    But if you look at the replay, it was obvious
that Montross took a dive, and a poorly acted dive at that.)

    Interesting note on UNC's record in the ACC tournament:
    
           # of times seeded first =  16
           # tournament champions  =   8
    
           SO, Deano only wins 50% of the times that his team is favored to
    win.  What a waste of NBA-bound talent, what a waste of TV exposure,
    what a waste of a coach........
    
    In 32 years, Deano is #2 in all-time collegian wins but has won only
    ONE friggen championship.  JUST ONE !!!!
    
    John "D Cowboys" R. 

    Well, my heart rate is finally back to normal. What a great weekend for
    Tech! And the blizzard gave me an excellent excuse to play couch
    potato(e) for the duration. James Forrest (unACC All Star) did a nice
    Charles Barkley imitation and dominated the tournament. What a stud (at
    least for this week)!
    
    Contrary to what you might have heard, the loss of Phelps did not hurt
    UNC all that much. He is not a particularly good point guard, certainly
    not in the class with Whitney, Hurley, Alexander and Best. His main
    contribution would have been to slow down Best, but Travis did not play
    well yesterday. Besides, the "system" doesn't rely on just one man,
    right Chris?
    
    Tech has been trick-or-treat all year, beating Duke twice, Virginia
    twice, Wake Forest, Louisville, UTC, and UNC while losing to
    Charleston, Clemson and NC State. Hopefully, the treat team will show
    up for the NCAAs or it will be a quick trip back to Hotlanta.
    
    But the main reason that Georgia Tech is the ACC champions is clearly
    shown in the title to this reply. ;^)
    
    Since the Boston Globe doesn't recognize or report women's sports, I
    have no idea who won the ACC women's tourney. Can someone down South
    tell me who won and how Tech fared? Thanks in advance.
    
    GTChris

    Congrats GTChris.  A fine 'W'.  However I must take exception to your
    comment that Phelps is somehow a sub-par PG.  He just might be the best
    defensive player in the USA, and has  been nominated as such.  He's the
    heart-and-soul of Carolina, both offensively and defensively.
    
    Enjoy the win, no excuses from this end, but you're dead wrong if you
    think Phelps' absence doesn't have a major impact on Carolina.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    So, according to ACChris, does Georgia Tech get to wear the mantle of
    "Atlantic Coast Conference Champions", or does North Carolina?  Or is
    it an either/or situation, where they both earn the privilege?  I only
    ask because when Chris was giving his dissertation on "regular-season
    overachievement", ACC titles were used as a barometer of UNC's
    superiority, and the numbers didn't seem to quite add up...
    
    glenn
    

	Is East Carolina from the ACC? They are the only team with a losing 
	record in the tournament.  What a coincedence to see who they drew
	for a first round game! (North Carolina)

	Billl

    > Seton Hall could handle them *easily*
    
    Not to take anything away from Seton Hall cause clearly they're playing
    extremely well right now, but Carolina handled the Pirates *easily* on
    The Hall's home floor a month or so ago.  UNC at full strength is not
    gonna get handled "easily" by anybody.
    
    As to Montross looking like a school kid, what game were you watching? 
    I saw him pulling down some huge boards.  Fact is, Tech has an
    extremely BIG front line that definitely forced some missed buckets.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

East Carolina is not from the ACC. They won a conference tourney to get
in. Last team with a losing record to be in the NCAA was Montana State in
1986.

The Crazy Met

    Montross showed human-nous (new word?) yesterday, I agree.  He wasn't
    dominant but still held his own against a very good front line. One of
    his bread and butter jump hooks was blocked, something I hadn't seen
    before.
    
    What I don't know is exactly what this or any conference tourney means
    to the teams, players; certainly a lot more to GT than NCC.
    
    East slot may be great for NC or a mixed blessing.  They definitely
    better not be overconfident against SJU, UMASS in N.jersey.
    
    From this corner ACC gets much the best of it from refs in NCAAs.

    Right now Montross is somewhere between Dwayne Schintzius (sp?) and
    Greg Kite as an NBA prospect.  He could have a long NBA career if
    he learns to set picks and beat on the opposition's stars.
    
    NAZZ

With those looks Montross should skip the jr. league (NBA) and head right
into the minor league (WWF) before taking on the big boys in the WCW....

I see the perch and twirl moves are back.....

mike

    re: Montross and defense
    
    I do watch Montross on the defensive end.  Have been for around 3 years
    now.  He's solid.  EXTREMELY solid.
    
    Check out Malcolm Mackey's stats yesterday if you want further proof. 
    He had a total of 2 points late in the game and had been completely and
    utterly shut down.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    > Seton Hall peaking ...
    
    Seeings how UNC has certainly been peaking late, and seeings how
    Carolina hung a solid 'L' on Seton Hall, I'd say the onus is on Seton
    Hall to prove they can handle the Tar Heels "easily".
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Yea, UNC is definitly peaking now.  Cain't see a reason on earth that 
once Mr Phelpps comes back, they are not going to win it all...

=Bob=

BTW - was it an excellent loss?

    re Montross-  Have to agree with UNChris on this one. Yesterday was the
    best game I've seen Montross play. He played solid D, rebounded much
    better than I've seen him before, and was the Heels best player on the
    floor. Without him, UNC woulda been smoked. If you're expecting
    Olajuwon or the Shaq, fergit it, but he did dominate Mackey, who should
    be a first rounder in this year's NBA draft.
    
    Forgot to mention before, but Tech freshman Drew Barry (bro of Jon and
    Scooter, son of Whiner) broke the ACC tournament assist record set by
    the little snot from Dook, Hurl-ee with 27 assists. Forrest was MVP.
    
    So who won the ACC women's tournament?
    
    Looks like Wake Forest got the worst tournament draw amongst ACC teams.
    UNC got the easiest, as usual. East Carolina might have the worst
    record in the NCAAs, but don't you know they would rather play UNC than
    any other team. Shunned, publicly humiliated, out-recruited, denied
    weak sister from the other side of the North Carolina tracks takes on
    legendary megalomaniac preacher and his band of Koreshian-like
    worshippers to atone for decades of neglect and overbearance. Ah, the
    possibilities! A victory to savor for centuries.
    
    GTChris                                         
    

    A loss to Georgia Tech in the ACC Tournament is peaking?

    Prior to the Tech 'L' Carolina had strung together 11 W's in a row. 
    Factor in that there's a pretty good chance UNC'd have won with Phelps
    and, yes, I'd call that peaking.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

There 'ya go again Mac, trying to inject logic into this discussion.

A few years ago a #2 seed (Syrcause?) lost in the first round of the NCAA.
Has a #1 seed ever lost a first round game?? It would be fun if UNC became
the first one. Have to wonder if ACC Chris will pull a disappearing act
for 7-8 months.

The Crazy Met

	Real fuuny scene in the bar I was at Sunday afternoon... with a little
	more than a minute to go in the GATech-UNC game I was watching with
	about 20 or so others, we all said at just about the same time, "Looks
	like it's time to tighten the collar, Dean."  With that we all proceeded
	to button the top button on our shirts.  You should of seen the look 
	on anyone who happened to walk into the place before the games was over.
	They'd do a double-take at us, look at the game on TV and then start 
	chuckling.  Almost busted a gut laughing when "the master" performed
	up to our expectations.

	Billl

Trying to be objective here.. after watching UNC in all three games this
weekend, I think they have they best combination of talent/court sense
of any of the teams in the tournament.    You have to give credit to 
Dean Smith for finding that talent.   

What will cause UNC to lose in the tournament is if Smith plays his subs
too much (like against Tech) and lets a good team stay in the game so that
foul trouble/a shooting slump/ a bad bounce can go against them.

If Dean stuck with his first seven guys until the games were in control,
he could win it all.

I'm stunned, shocked, and disappointed. In the span of a few hours the words
logic and objectivity were both used in the ACC note. Some days it pays not
to get out of bed.

:-)

The Crazy Met

    TCM, those words get used all the time in here.  But remember, just
    because the words are mentioned does not mean that their principles
    apply.

Thanks Mac, I now feel a little better.

The Crazy Met

First off I didn't see the game but by all accounts I've heard UNC didn't handly
Seton Hall "easily".  UNC didn't miss Phelphs sunday cause Best shot like shit.
Had Best been on this game wouldn't have even been close....

mike

    > Still, I think Montross *can* be a player I just don't think he's
    > one now.
    
    Hate to be so blunt, but if you don't think he's a "player" your
    basketball expertise is seriously in question.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    There's absolutely no doubt Dean is gonna get blamed when and if UNC
    loses.  There's also absolutely no doubt all Tournament Carolina W's
    (assuming there's more than one) will be courtesy of poor officiating, 
    raw talent, or just plain luck.
    
    Rest assured though that my laughter is barely self-contained when I'm
    told 1st team All-ACCer (and probably collegiate All-American and
    lottery NBA pick) Eric Montross is not a "player" and HoFer DeanSmith 
    is a coaching weak link.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

If I maybe so bold as to speak for Tommy, I believe what he meant by a "player"
was an NBA player not a college player. Sure in the college game Frankentross
is a "player" that other college coaches would love to have because there aren't
many his size but in the pro where plenty of 6' 10" players or taller make a
living he isn't a "player" yet. He still has a way to go. Defensively, his
limited ability is masked by zone defenses. While Dean may play more mano
mano defense than most he's still not above using a gimic or two. If he played
in a "pure league" like the Big East where they'd call 3 seconds he average
about 10 ppg and I've said it before and I'll say it again any 7 footer who
lives in the paint and averages only 7 boards a game should be ashamed of
himself....

mike

	Main, the ACC tournament was practically handed to North Carolina 
on the first night!  A quick glance of the East and once again Dean's 
practically handed a spot in the Final Four.  Anything less than a trip to 
N'Awlins can only be considered serious underachieving by the "Master".

				/Don

    	Montross is an above average college center who has improved
    a good amnount over last year.  With that said No way is he a second
    team AP AA.  
    	here is the Boston Herald AP AA teams
    
    First team		Second team		Third team
    Mashburn		Rogers			Van Exel
    Chaeney		G. Robinson		A. Houston
    Hardaway		J.R. Rider		C. Mills
    Webber		Dehere			G. Hill
    Hurley		Montross		McCaffery
    
    	Can't see Hurley better than anyone besides Montross on that list!
    
    Jimbo

I think Montross is an above-areage low post center and and average defensive
player (mainly due to his size).   My issue with Montross is not how he plays,
but how long it took Dean Smith to get him to this point.  

Next year, when two big stud centers Rasheed Wallace and Rashard Griffith
enter the college ranks, should we expect them to develop over a three year
period, or put up 15 ppg and 10 boards right from the start?  I say the
best H.S. center should be able to step into any program and produce right
away.   

Montross would be smart to come out this year and grab a 5 year $15mil 
contract.   I hope Dean advises him to do so... but then you have to look
at the lottery teams and who would take him.  

    I think Tommy and ACChris are actually agreeing.  Both of them are
    sayng that UNC won't win the Champeenship because of glaring weakness
    in the Tarheel team.

    Wow, I feel like Rush Limbaugh trying to hold Bill Clinton to the fire
    on all his campaign promises.
    
    Consider that Mr. Brydie:
    
    o First said he "liked" Montross
    o Then, based on observations from a single game during which he
      held the opposing 1st-round NBA competiton to 4 points, said the
      kid wasn't a "player" cause he can't play 'D'
    o Then he articulates further, saying no_way_no_how Montross is_a AA.
    o Then it's pointed out that, in fact, he most certainly *is* a_AA.
    o Now he sez he "likes" him again.
    
    Go figure, but while doing so, considering the waffling of a Mr. Doug
    Ross:
    
    o Out of HS Ross sez the kid is *way* overrated, has no moves,
      basically is a stiff
    o Now as the kid has started to blossom from the raw talent that he
      was into perhaps the #1 center prospect in the USA, Ross sez he
      cain't rebound, even though the guy's playing alongside possibly
      the most hungry rebounder in the USA in George Lynch who no_doubt
      steals a half-dozen boards away from him on a given game
    o He's also blaming Dean for his non-development, even though he
      used to say he's a stiff and now admits he's okay
    
    As the song says (and as it applies to Eric Montross' career at UNC):
    
    "What a long, ..... strange trip it's been!"
    
    
    Haw haw!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

>    Wow, I feel like Rush Limbaugh 


Better see a doctor about that condition Chris....

    I give ACChris a D for reading comprehension.

    An unbiased view of Montross:
    
    His first  year he was a real stiff,I thought what's all the fuss
    about?
    His sophomore year was a little better. This year he has done well
    against most opposition. He willhave an NBA career because of his size.
    
    There just aren't enough 7 footers who can walk and chew gum. Even a
    Greg Kite can have an 8 year career.
    
    Montross is far better than that and may even fit in well with the
    right team. I think he got hurt initially by being from Big 10 country.
    
    He was overhyped and overscrutinized by some angry Big 10 types.
    I agree that he should take the money and run if it is there. He is
    as good as he can be at the college level.
    
    NC East Regional scenario. Purdue-RI winner could make it interesting. 
    St Johns playing at home could be tough in the round of 16. UMASS
    will also have a chance.

    
                         -< Unbiased view of Montross >-
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Didn't he have a band about 10 years ago or so, with Sammy Hagar as the
    lead singer????
    
    
    JaKe
    

    re: Mr.Brydie
    
    I'd post the comparative stats for Montross vs. Mackey but I don't
    wanna embarass you further.  (Hint: Eric had *17* boards and even more
    points, 2 blocked shots, and a partridge in a pear tree.  Mackey had 4
    points.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Chris you really ought to go back to school and take a Reading Comprehension
Course....

So why can't he get 17 or eve 10 boards every game? It's certainly not a lack
of size or being out of the paint area? Perhaps he's slow or doesn't hustle?
Perhaps he hasn't been taugh how to box out properly by Deanawennie? Sorry I
can't buy your theory that Lynch steals 5 or 6 a game from him. Afterall you've
said that UNC is mason's convention waiting to happen so there should be plenty
of glass to clean.........

mike

    Re: Herald's AA
    
    I can not believe that Grant Hill is only listed as a Third Team
    All-American.  This guy is one of the most talented players in 
    the country and will be the key to Duke's success in the Big
    Dance.  To list him as 3rd Team AA is absurd.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    Hate to burst your bubble John-Boy, but it's generally required to
    perform *on the court* to be selected as_a AA.
    
    Since Hill was hurt from at least 50% of the ACC season, anything more
    than 3rd team would *really* be absurd.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Of all the ACC teams in the NCAA's - I think FSU is the most likely 
    to lose in the first round.
    
    How can that be said about a number 3 seed?
    
    While the 'Noles have done a wonderful job of overcoming numerous
    injuries,I just think they are so undisciplined and inconsistent.
    
    They could very well smoke past Seton Hall to play Kentucky. They are
    such a difficult team to figure.
    
    Others:
    
    UNC-hard to imagine them losing in the regionals if Phelps is healthy.
    St. Johns(home court-Meadowlands) or UMASS don't seem to have enough.
    Cicninnati is upset by somebody or loses to UMASS.
    
    UVA- They should get by Manhatten in a close one-and will play a very
    close one with UMASS. Maybe the one team Carolina doesn't want to see
    despite a 3-0 mark against them this year.
    
    Wake- Athletic and talented  another team that should survive a few
    rounds until runing into Kentucky.,but they could lose their opener
    too.
    
    Duke- If Grant Hill is healthy -I see them going to the final 4. 
    They have the ability to raise their game for the tournament. One thing
    about the Devils during their 5 year final 4 run is they haven't had
    many close games(with the exception of 1992 Ky of course). 
    The only team in their regional that could beat them IMHO is Indiana.
    
    Ga Tech- Alot of people think they have the right mix and momentum to
    go to the final 4. I doubt they can beat Michigan but they do match up
    well. Forrest is a monster player.
    
    As usual the tournament will come down to a lot of ACC-Big 10 and 
    ACC-Big East matchups
    They loom all over the place. The ACC came out slightly ahead last year
    because of Duke,but hows this for pivotal games?
    
    UNC-Purdue,Wake-Iowa,FSU-Seton Hall,Michigan-GT,Duke-Indiana.
    
    Let the madness begin!1
    

>                              -< Unbiased view of Montross >-                                            
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^        Didn't he have a band about 10 years ago or so, with
>    Sammy Hagar as the    lead singer????
    
    No Jake, your confused.  Montross is where that big fire was in the
    '70's.  You know, the one "Smoke on THe Water" is about.
    
    HTH
    
    
    brews

    Bad news, Carolina fans (all 1 of us).  An AP wire report is listing
    Derrick Phelps as "doubtful" for the first two (2) rounds of the NCAA
    Tournament.  Worse, Brian Reese's grandmother (who I believe assisted
    in raising him) has died in NYC.  He's missed practice this week and
    the funeral is Saturday, making it unlikely he'll be available should
    Carolina win tonight.
    
    Ugh.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Other UNC news:
    -Montross has developed a big zit on his nose
    -Lynch's girlfriend is a week late
    -Deano's hemorrhoids are acting up
    -Brian Reese's second cousin twice removed had an automobile accident,
    broke her left pinkie and all his teammates are overwrought with
    anxiety because of it
    -Donald William's cake didn't rise in Home Ec class
    -Phelps got lemon juice in his papercut
    -someone let the air out of all their balls, and the Heels were unable
    to practice all week
    -the new moon comes only three days after the spring equinox this year,
    causing all the tobacco plants in North Carolina to  wilt, angering
    Jesse Helms so much that he threatens to retire, causing further
    distress to the emotionally ravaged Tar Heel hoop team.
    
    Stay tuned for developments. ;^)
    
    GTChris

    re: .356
    
    Haw haw!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I wouldn't exactly call missing 2/5 of your starting lineup a "lame"
    excuse.  Not having Reese and Phelps for a game against Purdue (or URI)
    is extraordinarily significant, so much so that I'd guess the
    oddsmakers would install UNC as a (slight) 'dog.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I hope that was tongue in cheek.  The second coming will occur before
    nc is a dog prior to final round.
    
    I hope rams get by purdue as they will test nc at full strength but get
    shafted by pro acc refs just like last time - back in sly williams day
    
    anyone recall that one?
    

I wish Bob Hunt was here to hear this......8^)


'Saw

ACChris, 

If you provide any more UNC spin, you're gonna screw yourself into the ground.

    
    >>No Jake, your confused.  Montross is where that big fire was in the
    >>'70's.  You know, the one "Smoke on THe Water" is about.
    
    Correct.  The band was Montrose(headed up by Ronnie???  Montrose). 
    What band did Montrose play fer before starting his own????
    
    
    JaKe
    

    re: SlyWilliams
    
    Ooooooo, woweee do I remember that game.
    
    It was URI vs. Dook, and Sly Williams was turning AA Gene Banks every
    which way but loose!  Alas though, the Rams cannot blame the refs. 
    They had an absolutely *WIDE OPEN* lay-in by their white shooting guard
    (last name was Nelson) and he chocked. 
    
    Woulda given them a 'W' over the highly touted Devils.  (Banks,
    Spanarkel, Alarie, et al)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Make that Banks, Spanarkel, some one else, et al. Alarie played later
under K with Jay Bilas.

TTom

    re.365
    
    How about Gminski?

    > Holtz-heimer's disease
    
    Har har!  Good un.  Best (tm) that sucker if it hadn't been already.
    
    
    re: Haas
    
    Bout time you got back in here.  Main I hate it when folks go on long
    leaves of absence for no explicable reason.  Really burns me.  You're
    right on Alarie, but Dook had another big white dude on that team who
    went on to the NBA.  Cain't remember his name.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Kenny Denard and <somebody> Bender - he's coaching Illinois St, now.

Coached by Bill Foster, now coaching Northwestern.

TTom

    Gminski's the guy I was thinking of.  Duke was loaded.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Game must have been about '77.  I seem to recall a hos'n by refs, hard
    to believe dook would get a break.  Forgot final play only recall RI
    should have won.
    
    Also, 77 Crusaders played Michigan and get an even worse job'n -
    outplayed the eventual runnerups if I have it all correct.
    
    Gene Banks, one of the SI Sophmore Six: Tripucka,Lamp,Ainge,Bernard
    King,Banks and ......?????

Duke went on to lose in the finals to Goose Givens and Kentucky. Speaking
of right up there with Dean, That Wildcat squad was coached by quite the
choke artist, good ol' Joe B Hall.

TTom

    re Holy Cross - there's a picture of Cooz as crusader circa '47 in glob
    today - a must see
    
    btw He was every bit as good ballplayer as he lousy an announcer - and
    he played with West and Robertson.  Cannot underestimate how truly
    great he was on offense and never took a jump shot in his life
    
    oth-bill

    In one fell swoop Dean/UNC have graduated more hoops players than UNLV,
    NC State, and probably a dozen or so other programs *combined* over the
    last decade.  What aim I talking about?  Wail, UNC has five (5) seniors
    on this years team:
    
    Henrik Rodl
    George Lynch
    Travis Stephenson
    Scott Cherry
    Matt Wenstrom
    
    Each one of them will graduate this spring.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

So that was 1978, right?

The Crazy Met

re: Cooz

Used to be a decent announcer until he teamed up with Heinson the Homer...

Hey =Bob=, don't 'ya believe in equal time? Nothing about Lindsey in ages.

The Crazy Met

    re.372
    
    1978 was Duke-Kentucky final. 
    The sixth sophomore was of course Magic. The King in that group was
    Albert of Maryland . Michigan was runnerup in 1976 to Indiana.
    
    Are you sure Tripucka was in there? He wasn't as heralded as someone
    like Al wood of UNC or Danny Vranes of Utah. You may be correct.
    
    Marquette won in 1977 in al McGuire's farewell game. they were heavy
    underdogs to a team full of 1976 olympic gold medalists,coach too. I
    can't forget the name of the team.
    
    They beat Notre Dame and Kentucky in the East regionals  and won by a
    point over UNLV in the semis. 

    re:
    
    The Bender on Duke was Bob Bender. Anybody know what his claim to fame
    was at the time?

TCM,

	I think =bob= had to sell Lindsey to recoup his looses for that Wake
Forest bet that Ack Ack guaranteed!!!!!!

;^)

Sho' glad that the 'dog, UNC was able to scrape by a tough E. Carolina team by
20 points.  Is this as big an upset as Santa Clara/'Zona?

What do you think ACCLouChris, thionk these overacheivers can keep this crazy
quest alive?

=Bob=

Actually, I knew UNC would win, after all, how can a school named for a 
fictitious state be any good.

    re: N.Carolina vs. E.Carolina
    
    Never said N.Carolina would be a 'dog in this game.  I said they might
    be considered a 'dog *if* they were missing both Phelps and Reese for
    Saturdays game against Purdue or URI (URI as it turns out).
    
    Just to show you how meaningless this "alma mater" stuff is, consider
    that my wife is, in fact, a University of Rhode Island graduate. 
    (Class of '81)  So naturally she's pulling for the Rams to knock off
    Carolina, right?  Wrong.  She'll be pulling for da Heels, just like me.
    
    :^)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Just to show you how meaningless this "alma mater" stuff is, consider

Consider the household...

Does your wife also give the pretense of having gone to Chapel Hill? And
what happened to "and when I die I'll be Rhode Island dead"?

TTom

Wail, I'll have to go to the well one more time:

ACCLouChris - Phelpps and Reece are both out Saturday, should I put my money 
 	      on Rhody, to recoup my earlier losses?  I recently mmet this guy
              named Tiny, who offered to loan me some money at reasonable rates,
              so I need to know if I ned to seize the moment.

Why is it that nobody named Tiny is tiny? And it's a known fack that Slim
Pickens ain't slim.

But back to basketball. The current trend in post season play is
certainly taking its toll on the Big <number> conferences. The Big 10 is
fading fast with Purdue taking a powder, joining Wisconsin, Ohio St and
Michigan St. Kansas St and Missouri both fialed to uphold the honor and
glory of the Big 8.

So far, the ACC is 3-0 with wins by No Carolina, Duke and Florida St.

The Florida St victory was particularly good. The Noles haven't been
playing well (very charitably stated). The of the win over Evansville was
keyed by Sura's defense, holding their leading scorer to 7 points.

Duke looked like they want to get back to the final 4. 

No Carolina using a combination of luck, refereeing, end of season
peaking, and playing like a hot team, pulled out a major upset beating
East Carolina. It turns out that the Pirates weren't at full strength.
Their mascot was injured and as a result there was no team chemistry.

TTom

Duke with Grant Hill is a definite contender. 

I thought that the selections for the Midwest bracket. The rap lasted
year was that Duke got an easy draw, a la No Carolina in the East this
year. So, I guess, they put Duke with Indiana and Kansas making it the
only bracket with 3 teams that were ranked #1 this year. Throw in 4th
seed Louisville, who's one of those teams that doesn't know any better
and actually tries to win the whole thang, and you got the strongest
regional.

TTom

    ACC 4-0 in postseason, including Clemson's NIT victory yesterday.
    
    Chris

Yeah,

I missed the NIT: Clemson 84, Auburn 72. The Tigers move on.

TTom

Wake Forest continues the winning ways for the ACC. They just beat those
Mocs from UT-Chattanooga, 81-58.

TTom

    And Virginia makes it 6-0 beating Manhatten.

    Nope... Lose to SOUTHERN....
    

    4 in the sweet 16,the most of any conference-but still in certain ways 
    a disappointing weekend. I was expecting 5 with UVA the lone loser.
    It's hard to believe Duke is not in the sweet 16.
    
    Duke's luck in the NCAA's finally ran out. No Laetner around to hit
    the big shots. Hurley played heroically but when he has to score
    32 points you know Duke is in trouble. I thought the key possession was
    after Duke had taken a 1 point lead and had the ball. A three pointer
    by Hurley went in and out. Last year that shot goes in.  Kidd and Cal
    played inspired. Parks was missed. Duke seemed one player short.
    They were one of my picks to make the finals. Oh well.
    
    UNC really messed it up for CBS. With no other game to go to-we had to
    endure over an hour of garbage time and Bily Packer superlatives about 
    Dean and the program.  Who should they fear the most form this
    bunch,Chris? Cincy looked awesome today. UVA has been blown out three
    times by the Heels. I don't think they want to see them again. 
    Will Arkansas' press rattle them. This is payback time for getting
    blown out in 1990 so we hope. Let's hope they didn't leave their best
    basketball in Winston Salem. When was the last time the ACC didn't
    produce the East Regional champ?
    
    UVA has overachieved all year. I was surprised how easily they handled
    UMASS. Cincinnati is going to be a real challenge.
    
    Georgia Tech-what can you say. It's embarrassing!!!! So many people had 
    them tabbed for the final 4. I never thought that Cremins was anything
    more than a great recruiter. What a talented and schizoid team. We
    should have been warned by the College of Charleston home loss. The
    NCAA committee was seduced by the ACC tourney win and seeded them
    higher than a Wake team that has been in the Top 10 much of the year.
    How many teams really took the ACC tournament seriusly this year? I'll
    name them: Maryland,NC St,Clemson, Georgia Tech and Virginia. Tech's
    wins were impressive but tainted.
    
    Wake- How much help will they get against UK in Charlotte on Thursday
    night? Rodgers is unbelieveable. Their victory over Iowa typified the
    dominance the ACC has exhibited over the Big 10 in recent NCAA
    tournaments. The Big 10 is Michigan and Indiana-nothing more. Do they
    have enough to beat Kentucky???
    
    FSU- What woke them up? Was it playing in nearby Orlando? they were
    awesome so far. Can they handle WKU's pressure? Their big worry is foul
    trouble. Injuries have wiped out their depth. Casell was unconcious.
    Will the Charlotte ACC fans give them a boost?

    I had a terrible weekend.  It all started with UNC's win over RI and
    ended when Michigan won at the buzzer.
    
    My beloved Blue Devils were eliminated by Cal on Saturday.  The loss of
    Parks and some very questionable coaching by Coach K did not help
    matters.
    
    Despite a tremendous game from Hurley and a good game from Grant Hill
    Duke was not able to pull off the great comeback.  Thomas Hill once
    again was a disappointment; he tried to take the go ahead shots but
    was not able to convert.
    
    Duke in the second half was down by 19 points at one point, but Hurley
    played the game of his life.  He kept the Blue Devil's hopes alive. 
    Then Grant Hill took over.  The Blue Devils made an incredible run, and
    actually had three opportunities to take the lead but it was not to be.
    Coach K slowed the game down and allowed a stunned Cal team to regain
    its composure.  Instead of giving the ball to Grant Hill again and
    again Coach K decided to run plays for Thomas Hill the senior.  Thomas
    missed and without Parks to rebound the ball was in Cal's hands.  
    
    All in all a great game.  Hurley has had an incredible four years at
    Duke, and I wish him all the best in the NBA.  BTW, I was very
    impressed with this Cal team and this Kidd fella.
    
    Coach K, I love ya but your coaching in the Cal game was mediocre at
    best.  Better luck next year.  I will now pack away my Duke
    sweatshirts, hat, and Blue Devil doll until next season.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    
    P.S. ABUNC - Anyone But UNC for the title

re: Duke/Cal

Jason Kidd was spectacular!  

I've said some stuff about Hurley before, but he played a great game 
offensively.  Defensively, nobody on Duke could stop Kidd.  Parks being on
the bench hurt, but I don't think Cal was to be denied yesterday...

=Bob=

BTW - So glad the Heels were able to sneak by URI.  Close one all the way.
      Beign faithful to the impartial word of ACChris, I noticed that Phelpps
      and Reece were in the lineup, so restrained from placign large sums 
      of money on the Rams...

	Glad to see the overachieving snake-bitten TarHeels overcome the 
slightly favored Rhode Island juggernaut last Saturday.  It's unbelievable 
that the hoop scribes and network analysts can't see the treacherous 
mine-laden road that the Heels have to the Final Four.  Even the oddsmakers 
can't seem to grasp the futility of Dean's quest, having installed the 
gritty, gutty Heels as an 11 point favorite over the multi-talented 
peaking Razorbacks.

				/Don_For_ACK

    Will Dean start blubbering if he loses like Mikey K did?
    
    

Nah Walt. Dean has never had the disappointment of failing to 3peat
or to not make the Final Four for the 6th straight year.

The Crazy Met

    Dean did break down and do some mainly crying a few years back - purty
    sure it was after the SorryExcuse 'L'.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re .404 Which Syracuse loss? (1975 or 1987).
    
    Indiana loss in 1984 regional semis to one of Knight's worst IU teams
    and 1985 regional final loss to Villanova had to hurt the most.
    
    But give Dean credit. 13 straight sweet 16's. There's at least one
    major conference that can't say that!

and how about Packer worrying about Dean with his subs and his 40 points lead
give me a f'n break will ya. The guy may know his hoops but he certainly doesn't
know how to fill up garbage time. Give me Brown and  Raferty together anyday...
I'd love to see Brown, Raferty and Maguire work the finals. Fat chance in 
hell of that hapeening though...

You - and anybody else - can have all of Billy Packer that you want. I
refuse to listen to his tripe. He's done more harm to the announcing
business than anyone else. The particular thing that I dislike about
Packer is his prepared agenda. He comes to the game with a list of things 
to say and manages to work them into his verbage totally without regard
to what is happening on the court. 

>and how about Packer worrying about Dean with his subs and his 40 points lead

A case in point. Somewhere he read or was told that Dean's substitution
pattern is a_issue. So despite the fact that the game was a total blowout
he brings this up like it's relevant to this particular game. Give me a
break!

When I find out Packer is doing the game, I find either alternative
sources - radio, other channels, etc. - or I listen to something else
while watching the game without his inanities.

And while we're on Packer, it's come out lately that while he was
coaching at Wake, all was not done according to the rules. Packer has
admitted to participating in most everything that Valvano got caught for:
grade tampering, arranging for assignments to be done for players, cash,
etc. He conveniently fessed up to this much after the fact.

I'm with Mike Childs. I'll take Raftery (sp?) any day over Packer. In
fact, I'll take almost anyone this side of Brent Mussberger over Packer.

TTom

Bobby Cremins has resigned, or as he said retired, from Georgia Tech to
take the head basketball job at his alma mater, South Carolina.

From what I hear, he was offered the job a while back, told them to wait
until the end of the season (which Southern help facilitate!), then got
the offer, rejected it, called back to see if he could reconsider and
then finally accepted.

Cremins replaces Steve Newton who was forced to resign after the school
reported recruiting violations.

The early line had the Tulane coach, Perry (?), as the leading candidate
but the name that has started to surface is Eddie Fogler  who was named
UPI Coach of the Year at Vanderbilt. Fogler has roots in Chapel Hill.

TTom

I heard about Cremins this morning, and was quite surprised.  Has Tech always  
been as "bigh time" a program as they are now, or is Cremins responsible for 
building them up?

Tech (or some big time program) would be smart to scoop up Mike Jarvis (GW).  
he certainly has gotten their program into the big time quickly.

=Bob=

    The guy from Tulane has the inside track (ex-asst.)
    

	The year prior to Cremins arrival, Tech has a 1-13 record in the
	ACC, and had been to the NCAA tournament only once (1960).
	They have currently the third-longest streak of NCAA tournament
	appearances.

	Prior to his arrival at Tech, Cremins had also taken a fairly poor
	Appalachian State program and had made them SC contenders, with an
	NCAA appearance there as well.

	He is a great recruiter because he is a fine man, and genuinely
	cares about his players as people.  A number of former players here
	in the Atlanta area have made such comments in the last couple of
	days.  Yvon Joseph (the Haitian center during the Price-Salley days,
	and an NBA low draft choice) has stayed in Atlanta specifically
	because of his friendship to Cremins.  Others have similar relationships
	to him.

	I suspect he will have a similar experience in Columbia.

    I was a little disappointed, but not surprised that Cremins left. He is
    a So. Carolina grad and would love to return them to the glory days of
    Frank McGuire. USC hasn't been a major power in hoops since Cremins was
    a player. Dropping out of the ACC really hurt USC.
    
    A major factor for Cremins had to be the fact that USC recently joined
    the SEC. With Arkansas also a member now, the SEC can legitimately
    claim to be a powerhouse hoops conference (note their success in the
    NCAA tournament). That translates into recruiting power and Bobby knows
    it. I don't think he would have left if USC had remained an
    independent. The scenario for USC is very similar to Tech's when they
    joined the ACC. Tech suffered the same fate as USC did (when they
    dropped out of the ACC) when Tech withdrew from the SEC in the mid 60s.
    Tech was one of the top hoops schools in the SEC.
    
    I am sorry to see Cremins leave because he revived the basketball
    program at Tech, but I don't think he could take it to the promised
    land. I also think he got a commitment from Tech to hire his old asst
    and good friend Perry Clark as head coach. I'm excited about Clark.
    He's an excellent game coach and recruiter (the latter he learned from
    Cremins, the former he must have learned on his own). Tech returns four
    excellent starters, two frosh and two sophs, and needs only to plug the
    gap in the middle to have an excellent team for the next few years.
    Maybe junior Ivano Newbill will develop more skills if given the
    starting job.
    
    Clark took over Tulane ~5 years ago after Tulane dropped basketball
    because of Hot Rod Williams and his cohorts in the point shaving
    scandal. He started from scratch with a bunch of Freshmen and JUCO
    xfers and has been in the NCAAs and Top 25 two years in a row, which is
    a phenomenal achievement. I'd love to have him at Tech, and have my
    fingers crossed. Maybe he can get the guys ready to play every night,
    especially in the first round. :^(
    
    GTChris
     
    

    Sniff 'Saw,
    Now I'll have to go out and rent Field of Dreams, 8 Men Out, The
    LouGehrig,BabeRuth,MontyStratton,DizzyDean,Jimmy Piersall Stories,
    Angels in the Outfield, etc.....
    
    
    8^)
    MikeL
    

    Coach Dean Smith makes his ninth trip to the Final 4 next weekend,
    courtesty of one of the grittiest W's in the history of UNC basketball. 
    
    Despite the joy of the win I sincerely hope this team doesn't consider
    it's work to be complete.  Reaching The Promised Land is great, but
    most on this team already accomplished that two (2) years ago.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

The title is in the bag for Carolina.  They are just too deep and too talented.
The only thing that can stop them now is poor coaching.

    TarHeels in final 4, chicken bone within a week and a half.
    
    ya heerd it here on Roller Derby
    
    JaKe
    

    Re:  UNC and poor coaching
    
    We can always hope that Dean lives up to his past heroics.
    
    UNC & Arkansas
    
    Nolan Richardson should shoulder the blame for the loss.  Why did he
    decide to slow the game down in the last few minutes, and thus allow
    UNC to set up their defense ?  The Razorbacks' helter-skelter style 
    of play disturbed UNC and was the reason that the game was close.  Why
    then did Nolan slow the game down and play into UNC's hands ?  What a
    boob !!!!
    
    Pathetic.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    

 DOes Dean really need to have the refs in his back pocket too? Unbelievable that 
 with the amount of calls he does get he could sit there and cry for more. Reese
 should never have had the chance to win that one the ball was out off him....

 mike

    Kev was kind enough to give me a ring yesterday *after* Carolina won (a
    mainly main if there ever was one).  My comment to him:
    
    Wonder who'll be the first to blame the refs for the Carolina W(s)?!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re: .-2
    
    Mike, if you were lookin' close enough to believe that it went
    out on Carolina...how could you possibly miss that arm hack that
    the Cincinatti guy gave to the Carolina guy?!!!!
    
    meat
    

    you Dean-baters are terrific.  "Carolina has it in the bag".
    "The only thing that can stop them is poor coaching".
    
    gimme yet-another break!  No mention of the fact that Kansas
    was #1 for longer than UNC. Or, that Kansas beat the team (IU) that
    was ranked #1 for most of the season.  (I believe that) the last poll
    had them ahead of Carolina, too.  So, in theory, UNC is the slight underdog
    in that game.  To try to say that Carolina has it "in the bag"
    is absurd.  But, it's a nice way of setting up the game so that
    unless Dean wins it all, then he's a gross underachiever!
    
    Booby K. was #1 for much of the season..yet he didn't even make the
    final party.  Where are the comments about how he blew it, and only
    poor coaching kept them from winning it all??????
    
    The Boston Globe has an article about UNC this morning.  There are
    many interesting quotes, but one that stood out was:
    
    "in the world of college basketball, the Home Office of Excellence is
    in Chapel Hill, N.C."
    
    
    
    meat
    

    > Ryan has a habit of taking unpopular positions ...
    
    Haw haw!  Talk about symbol over substance.  Exactly *who* in the
    national media has been suggesting that Chapel Hill, NC is not the
    pinnacle of basketball excellence?!  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Certainly no cakewalk, but the Tar Heels do indeed look like the favorite.
They peaked at the end of the season, and had the most lopsided victories in
the tournament (thus the most rested stars).  They seem to have become 
aquainted with clutch play, as evidenced by the Cinnci game.

Yep, look like odds on favorites to me.  Unless of course as Doug says...

=Bob=

 =Bob=

Kentucky had the most lopsided victories so far. Only Florida State was within
20 points after the 1st half, and that quickly changed in the 2nd half.

The Crazy Met

Oh, c'mon TCM, don't let facks get in the way of our fun!!!111

HERE'S YOU CHANCE TO SEE UNC WIN IT ALL!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    
Opening conference entry CELTICS (file 
oobie::oobie$dka200:[notes$library]boston_celtics)...
Note 2.252                The One and Only ^/^ Tix Note              252 of 252 
NOVA::CAMERON "Thats Evad Noremac backwards"         19 lines  29-MAR-1993 13:23
                   -< 2 tickets to NCAA final 4!  for sale! >-

I have 2 tickets to this years NCAA final 4 that I CANNOT use...

2 Tickets for both the semi-finals and the finals.

First come, first served.

NOVA::CAMERON
dtn 264-0294
home (603) 429-2460 (Its actually a bus. phone , I'm a contractor)

Cost:

	$91 - ticket face value
	$ 9 - approx. cost to federal express the ticket to you (if needed)
	      less if the cost is less, more if the cost is more.  I'll send
	      the reciept
	$ ? - *MUST* send me 2 programs


[ End of note ]

	I would say this is the most evenly matched foursome in the
	history of the Final Four.

re: .431

=bob= you're right. My apologies for breaking one of the few rules in
::SPORTS - facts may not be used in an argument; John Hendry was given
a specific exemption to this rule.

The Crazy Met

re: .432

damn! can't make it - real bad weekend. oh well another time :-(

The Crazy Met

>damn! can't make it - real bad weekend. oh well another time :-(


Craze,  Weekends are like fishing -- there ain't no such thing as a
bad day of fishing -- so there ain' no such thing as a bad weekend.
Some weekends are just a little less "successful" than others....8^)


hth,
'Saw

trust me 'Saw there are things like bad weekends. This upcoming one
happens to fall into the inconvenient category - that can be predicted
ahead of time. Bad weekends are generally non-predictable.

The Crazy Met

    Re: Montross's progress
    
    What a bunch of bull.  He was billed as the best center of the country
    during his HS years and he has truly failed in that regard.  If he was
    so dominant in HS why has he not trnaslated that dominance in the
    college ranks ?  Why is he not THE go-to guy during crunch time, a la
    Hakeem, Ewing, Sampson etc. ?
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    Re: Montross...
    
    Say what you will about Montross, but every coach in the country would
    LOVE to have him on their team.
    
    A player his size doesn't have to have slick moves around the basket. 
    Particularly in the college game.  I dare say you could count on one
    hand the number of collegiate teams that he would not start on.
    
    Someone in another note mentioned Dean potentially ruining Donald
    Williams chances in the NBA?  Have we forgotten how many players from
    UNC have gone on to NBA stardom?
    
     - Bob "WILDCAT" Roper

Just wait til next year when we hear how Dean developed Williams from such
a lousy freshman into a scoring machine.   Sounds like the Montross story
all over again.     Next year when Jerry Stackhouse comes in and scores
5 points a game, we'll get to hear UNC apologists start talking about the
tough job Dean will have to develop this top-5 in the country player.

I think Cliff Rozier saw through Dean's SYSTEM and the fact that it 
stifles development of a player's full potential.    I bet if he was
still at UNC, we'd be seeing quite a different player right now than 
the one who was all Metro, averaging a dozen boards a game.

    Wildact,
    
    I am not disputing the fact that he would start on most college teams, 
    but give me the names of two or three other current college centers who 
    can be considered standouts in their position.  So who can you compare 
    him to ?
    
    I think in comparison to previous college players "that every coach
    would love to have" he has underachieved.  
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    

    re- .414 (Cremins farewell note)
    
    Never mind.
    
    Chris

    Interesting point in here about Dean Smith.
    
    So, what is a college coach's primary objective?  Develop players, or
    win games?  The two do NOT necessarily go hand-in-hand.
    
    Do alumni back a coach who has a so-so win-loss record, but has sent
    many players to the pros, or one who has a great win-loss record but
    hasn't delivered any great amount of players to the Bigs?
    
    Lee

    re: DonaldWilliams
    
    I critized Dean last year for the way he handled Donald, .... and was
    proven wrong.
    
    Last year there was very little PT available at WG, what with 1st round
    NBA Hubert Davis having a monster year.  UNC was thin at PG, so Dean
    had Donald play primarily at the point.  He didn't play particularly
    well, seemed to clearly be playing out of position, and generally
    didn't impress.
    
    Now that he's back playing where he belongs the benefit of a year of PG
    are clearly evident.  He handles the ball *very* well.  His defense is
    several cuts above what it was.  His passing has improved
    significantly. 
    
    In sum, Dean has done with Donald Williams what he's been doing with
    players for over 30 years now.  Namely, take a raw recruit and mold
    him, expand his horizons, *force* him to do things he's maybe not
    comfortable doing, and output an NBA breadwinner.  (BTW, this is why
    it's *good* that Montross gets out in the open floor and covers people. 
    It doesn't suit his talents ideally, but it teaches him new skills
    he'll need down the road.)
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

    To go back to Lee's note I think the mark of a good coach is to have 
    players who overachieve in their position.  Taking a highly recruited
    player, who already has the talent and BB smarts and then claiming
    credit once they make it in the NBA does not make one a good coach.  
    
    While Dean does have many ex-players in the NBA they are there because
    of their talent and not because of what Dean taught them.  In fact many
    of them blossom in the NBA (Jordan, Daughrty, Kenny Smith, are a few
    examples).
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    
    P.S.  Dean Smith is today's Guy Lewis (ex-Houston coach).

    John, your point is well taken about the "mark" of a good coach.
    
    But, what I'm asking is what is the "Main Goal" of a coach?
    
    Winning, or developing players?  While both can be attained at once,
    they are NOT necessarily tied together.
    
    As an example, a local HS coach has been VERY successful in winning
    both games and titles.  However, he isn't necessarily known for
    developing individual players.  His philosophy is to develop a team,
    and by that I mean being able to go 10-12 deep, depending on the
    opposition.  He will not play his best player for 75% of the game if
    the win is basically in his pocket.  That player will play much of the
    first half of the first half, and then pretty much sit out the rest
    while the "subs" get playing time.  Then, that  player will repeat in
    the second half (that is, play much of the first half of that half - I
    equate it to the old Quarters, pay most of the 1st and 3rd Qtr.).  
    
    So, he will win many games, but his "star" player will not get on the
    court for much of the lopsided games.  It's very effective in certain
    situations, such as an unbalanced league.  But, it does have a cost. 
    That "star" player won't get the points, or 'bounds, or assists that
    another player of equal talent will get when playing most of all games.
    Both teams would have many wins, but one set of stats would far
    outstrip the other.  
    
    So what is Dean's goal?
    
    Lee

    Wail,
    This ain't an answer but P_Namer will give y'all a hint.....
    This'll be Ack's and Dean's worst nightmare.....cuz it's sooooooooo
    uncharacteristic.
    
    Out on a limb,
    MikeL
    

    re. Montross, SI etc.  Is it just me or is SI going downhill? Also,
    anyone noticed that best writing occurs in swimsuit issue?  Good
    marketing strategy.

    Don't forget Montross intensity and desire.  As for point about Eric's
    points I still stand by my earlier comment about the primadonnas not
    wanting to dump it into Montross.  Ironically he is so unselfish that
    when/if they doubleteam him he gets it out very effectively.  And
	I think he should go pro after Kansas loss to get real experience
    and nc will lose to Kansas if Dean does not force those guards to give
    him the ball and they won't.
        Kansas will double team him but nc must make it happen and play off the
    dteam.
    
    oth-bill
    

	It appears looking add the Vegas odds that UNC overachieves
	by winning the title, undereachieves by losing in the semis,
	and does what is expected by losing in the championship.

    It's pretty funny reading the Dean bashers. Well you know what they say
    about opinions. Let me give some quick facts about UNC and the ACC.
    
    In the past 30 years- Smith's teams have been to 9 final fours. they
    are 1-3 in the finals,losing to UCLA,Marquette and Indiana. Over that
    30 year span only duke and UCLA have been to as many final 4's. 
    
    UCLA won 10 titles in 12 years,but has only been to the final 4 twice
    since Wooden retired(1976 & 1980). Led by Duke (9) and UNC the ACC has 
    an impressive 23 final four slots,second is the Big 10 and Pac 10
    with 14(13 by UCLA,Mike H. knows the other). Louisville(7),Houston(5),
    Kansas(5) and Indiana(5) are the only other teams with more than 4
    appearances.
    
    The other ACC final 4 appearances are from NCST(2),Virginia (2) and Ga.
    Tech. Of course NCST has two titles out of its appearances.
    
    UCLA 10
    Indiana 3
    Louisville,NCST,Duke 2
    MSU,Kansas,Mich,UNC,UTEP,Ky,UNLV,Georgetown,Villanova and Marqeutte
    have one each,so one of this years' final 4 will break the logjam.
    
    What opinion to draw from all these facts? The ACC is unsupassed for
    consistently producing final four teams and Dean smith has won a lot of
    big games but against the elite of the elite he has come up short.

    Yup,
    But does anyone label as "great" the jockey who consistently finishes
    second in the Kaintucky Derby?
    
    MikeL
    

    .451
    
    No one is arguing about the ACC's presence in the Final 4s, just Dean's
    inability to win despite having the most talented HS players year after
    year.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.
    
    Dean Smith = Guy Lewis

    
    Dean is one for 8 in final fours (winning Champeenships).  That's
    below the mendoza line.
    
    Even in the one champeenship game he WON, he was OUTCOACHED (by John
    Thompson - no small feat...).
    
    JD

    How're ya doin there JD, eh?
    
    Run into my buddy Trevor who owns the only cold beer store there
    in Vancouver? 
    
    MikeL
    

    re: under/overachievement
    
    Keep in mind folks that pre-season polls (pick your favorite) did NOT
    have UNC within sniffing distance of the Top 5 in the USA.  S&S had 'em
    10th; AP/UPI had 'em lower I believe.  Even my pro-ACC ACC Handbook had
    'em 9th.
    
    As usual Dean's overachieved his way to a fine season and if, prey
    tell, he can't find a way to beat either Kansas and/or Michigan/UK,
    this season will be a "disapointment".
    
    Ha!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    	Po' Dean, picked only 9th or 10th.  What a herculean effort to
    reach the Final Four.  What grit!
    
    				/Don

Amazing that the greatest recruiting class of all time is managing to over
achieve by reaching the final 4...

Metz

    I thought they were picked somewhere between 6 and 8...
    

    > I thought they were picked somewhere between 6 and 8...
    
    Still overachievement, Walt.
    
    :^)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Only if they beat a team in the tournament predicted to do better.
    Have they done that yet?  I don't think so...

    OK Chris,
    Belly up. Put yo' money(so to speak) where yo' loyalties lie.
    Despite the "odds" I'm pickin' the Heels right now. Come out
    with a definitive statement.
    
    Oh that 8-20 preseason pick is understandable. Normally a #1 pick 
    with that talent by all the seers, it'e Dean's coaching that made
    them a lesser-ranked team. So maybe you're right. Dean's normal
    coaching makes a #1 talent-team a 8-20 underachiever. Dean's good
    coaching job(not great) makes a #1 talent team a champ. So DEAN
    overachieves. There, I got it all covered for ya.
    
    Whew,
    MikeL
    

    Steve Fisher is 1-1 in the final 4, getting to the Championship game
    twice...

I'm talking about the talent laden star-hells...When the class of '94 came in 
they were called the greatest recruiting class of all time...ACC Crispex
crowed like the king rooster when that was announced...

Since then they are 0fer championships...

Metz

BTW- you can't write off Rozier by saying he left...the reason he left was
his dean-ships "system"

    Metz please don't tempt the fates. Consider how insufferbale this note
    will be if UNC manages to win it all. I will be doubly glad that I will
    be gone next week until Wednesday night.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Snuffy sings:

	More <ack, cough, gag>, much more than this <hack, hack, wheeze>
	I did it my <argghhhhh> way!

    Okay, you guys convinced me.  If NC wins, they shoulda.  If they lose,
    HAW-HAW Dean chocked again.  
    
    Based on all of the logic shown in this note, I'm pulling for NC.
    
    Lee

    Lee,
    Based on the logic shown in the history of this note......
    you should pull for UNC to either win or lose, and in either a
    blowout or close game.
    
    HTH,
    MikeL
    

    "rebut" -  What's that, some sort of rectal replacement?  :*)
    
    lEe

    
    Chrisp Does bring it upon himself.
    
    He alwasy crows about UNC's recruiting and about the amount of players
    that go on to the pros.   If they have such fantastic recruits, and
    such NBA Talent, logic would seem to dictate many champeenship banners
    flying off of Dean's honker.    But he only has that one fer ate record
    in Final Fours.    So, if they get great recruits, the produce great
    NBA talent, and as Chrisp will tell us, they always move to the sweet
    16, then it must be coaching that holds them back in the really big
    games.
    
    JD

Good luck to ACChris today.. a win today and the Tar Heels have "achieved."
A win Monday and they've marginally overachieved.   

    UNC is all done and I'll tell you why....
    
    Phelps is done.  Williams will be shut down by King.  Without the
    outside game UNC is history.  
    
    Jimbo

    re: .478
    
    ACC Chris there is hope. Jimbo just picked Michigan.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

                    
    I'm assuming that the absence of commentary from ACChris on this 
    weekend's games, or especially on UNC's biggest game of the last 
    decade tonight, is due to superstition?  I can sorta understand that...
    
    glenn
    

    I gotta laugh at all youze guys who think I'll be gloating and "in your
    facing" should UNC win tonight, as if it's some kinda exoneration for
    me/Dean.
    
    No way, folks.  I've been justifiably "in jo facing" for half a decade
    now, and tonights game has ABSOLUTELY ZERO bearing on Dean's place in
    the history books.  
    
    A National Championship would be great, but true Carolina fans (like
    me) dunnot require the 'W' over Michigan tonight.
    
    BTW, anybody catch the JerryStackhouse show at the McDonald's All-Star
    game?!  Yikes!!!  Lynch departs and the loss is huge, but *if* Montross
    returns look for UNC to be ranked #1 at the start of '93-'94.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    	So Chris, are you saying that the BabyBlews are legitimate 2
    point favorites tonight?
    
    				/Don

    ACChris:
    
    Is Stackhouse a logical replacement for Lynch. I know he can jump
    through the roof,but how tall is he? He looked quite comfortable at the
    2 guard which belongs to Donald Williams for another two years.
    
    I don't see him pushing Reese out next yeat either. What about
    McGinnis? And now I hear Rasheed Wallace(6'11) from Philly may be
    coming.
    
    I agree-if Montross stays and the Fab 5 bolt-UNC a definite preseason
    number 1. I also agree that Smith's place in hoops history is secure
    whatever happens tonight but a 'W' would sure be nice!
    
    Go 'Heels'
    
    Here's hoping I'm wrong about predicting Michigan before tournament.
    

    re: /Don
    
    Like Dean, I don't discuss betting lines.  They have no place in
    college athletics.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    I was being completely sincere, Chris.  I understand what you're saying
    about Dean on a logical level, but as a fan I know you can't consider
    tonight's game to have "zero" meaning.  Emotionally, I figured you
    might be hunkering down in your bunker for this biggest of games.  I
    *know* how much Carolina basketball means to you...
    
    glenn
     

    re: Stackhouse
    
    A point well-taken.  He is not a PF, but he is 6'-7".  There's no way
    he's pushing either Reese or Williams out of the starting lineup.
    
    Wallace is a very shaky recruit for Carolina.  Despite an absolute
    perfect visit ('W' over Duke, parents weekend, Stackhouse & McInnis
    both on-hand, perfectly beautiful weather) he seems lukewarm at best
    toward UNC.  The optimistic side of me thinks that *maybe* it's cause
    Carolina is the only school that will not take him if he can't score
    700 on his SAT's.  Since he hasn't passed yet (he's close and his HS
    GPA ain't too bad) perhaps he'll warm up toward Chapel Hill.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Saying that tonight's game has no significance to the Dean debate is just
premature rationalization in case the Tar Heels manage to lose.   If Dean
doesn't win this year and Montross hits the trail, it will be at least
another 4 years before the opportunity will come again... and chances are
this may be Dean's last shot ever.   

Every tournament game Steve Fisher wins makes Bill Frieder look even worse.

I love the p-name Doug...My god child's birthday is coming up and all he
wants are Barney video-tapes and Barney audio tapes...

Saying this game has no meaning to Acc Crisp is just pre-mature spin control.
I commended Snuffy's coaching this season in another note but you know Crisp
is just waiting to issue the biggest I told you so of all time should Snuffy
manage to pull this W out.

Of course my wife also scheduled us to go out to dinner tonight in the middle of
the game (6:15 PSt for you east coast bigots) so I probably will miss it.

Ugh,

 Metz

    So when is the next NCAA finals scheduled for New Orleans? Those
    multitudes of us who picked Michigan had this fear the whole
    tournament. A mental mistake at a key time destroys a superhuman
    performance by Webber.
    
    He should go pro. This is a man among boys.  Did you hear the Smith
    interview afterwards? The big thing on his mind was to say we would
    have won anyway-don't make every championship I win into a fluke.
    
    It doesn't matter how you won Dean. If they had lost the
    Carolina-haters would never have let Dean live down Lynch stepping on
    the endline. It's too bad that the Webber blunder affected the outcome.
    UNC and Dean deserve credit for beating a physically superior and more
    talented team.
    
    There can be no doubt. The ACC and the Tarheel state rule. Three
    straight NCAA titles. 
    
    How sweet it is!!!!!!!!!!! Enjoy this Chris. Nothing could be finah.
    
    

     Well Gawd DammIt, who won!?!?!?
    
    Was there a Score?

    Hell must be freezing over.
    
    UNC 77-71 Michigan.  Webber, despite playing an incredible game made
    a bonehead play (:11 seconds left, down by 2) when he called timeout.
    The problem was that Michigan was out of timeouts, and after converting
    the technical it was all over.  
    
    I believe ths tourament UNC-MVP has to be Donald Williams.  This guy is
    one of the purest shooters I have ever seen, and from 3-point land he
    is absolutely deadly.
    
    Congratulations to Donald and his teammates.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    
    
           Chris Webber = Freddy Brown
    
    11 yrs later
    
    Chappy

Congrats to the Tar Heels for a big win in a well-played, exciting game.
It's too bad ACChris can't enjoy the win since it doesn't really matter 
much in the whole scheme of things  :-)

Now let's get down to objectivity:

* Donald Williams carried the Heels to the title.  He was awesome.

* Chris Webber seems to have a real stamina problem.  

* Dean Smith's subbing kept Michigan in the game.  There's no excuse for
  Calabria and Cherry to be playing at all.   And he kept taking out Montross
  and Williams and Lynch for seemingly no reason but to put a weaker team on
  the floor.

* I think we saw what life in the NBA would be like for Montross.  He was
  rejected several times and when forced to take a shot other than a dunk,
  looked very mediocre.   5/11 FG and one of those made got a lucky bounce.
  He also averaged 5 boards for the two Final Four games.  How come?
  

   <<< Note 21.492 by WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M "Donbo Danbo and ??? Wadebo???" >>>

    
    
>           Chris Webber = Freddy Brown
>    
>    11 yrs later
>    
>    Chappy


     Just plain wrong.

    
>* Dean Smith's subbing kept Michigan in the game.  There's no excuse for
>  Calabria and Cherry to be playing at all.   And he kept taking out Montross
>  and Williams and Lynch for seemingly no reason but to put a weaker team on
>  the floor.
    
    It was somewhat bizarre to see, late in the game, the strategy to put 
    in five guys who can't score for the purpose of running 45 seconds and
    taking a violation.  But at least later on he had the right guys in to
    shoot free throws...
    
    glenn
    

    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111
    
    - ACC Chris

I realize that all you Dean-haters must be feeling terrible this
morning.  No more lame excuses about his number of Championships.
No more contorted logic about how the second most winning coach
in history is actually a failure.  It must be horrible to have to
face the error of your ways.

So, I thought that you might feel better if we all had some group 
singing. You'all know how much better singing can make you feel!
And, I know that right now....all you want to do is feel better.

So, I came up with a little ditty that I think you might like to sing.

So, let's all rise.....take a deep breadth......

all together now.......

(if you don't remember the tune, just remember that it's sung to the tune
of the Carolina fight song)


	I'm  a  Tar  Heel   born,
	  and   a  Tar  Heel  bred.

	When I  die, I'll be
	  a   Tar  Heel  dead.

	So,  it's  Rah, Rah, Carolina..'lina
	  Rah,  Rah,   Carolina....'lina.

	Car-o-lin-a....RAH,  RAH,   RAH!!!!!!






there......feel better now?????



Meat

    No, I don't think that's the case.  The team who went into the
    tournament season with the #1 ranking won the tournament. Is that
    a shock?  Didn't most people say the East was the "easiest" bracket?
    I think more people expected them to do well and the NC fans talked more
    about how they were just lucky to be there and downplayed their
    expectations.

>     <<< Note 21.499 by ROYALT::ASHE "Guess who just got back today..." >>>
>               -< Webber did hand the game to him though (haha) >-
>
>    No, I don't think that's the case.  The team who went into the
>    tournament season with the #1 ranking won the tournament. Is that
>    a shock?  Didn't most people say the East was the "easiest" bracket?
>    I think more people expected them to do well and the NC fans talked more
>    about how they were just lucky to be there and downplayed their
>    expectations.


Yeah, what he said.  8^)

	Uh, that would be Indiana.

	Indiana was #1 when the NCAA tournament started.
	Indiana was #1 when the first conference tournament started.
	UNC was #1 for a short time in between, but not when the NCAA
	tournament started, nor when the conference tournament season
	started.

	I think Walt is trying in some way to say UNC should have been
	favored to win, and is stretching this just a bit.  Why not say
	UNC was the best team going in, and it's not a surprise that they
	won ?

    No, when tournament week started (conference tournaments), UNC was
    ranked #1.  I think you must be referring to when the big league
    conferences like the ECAC-North, ECC, and MEAC had started.  That was
    a week before the major conferences started.  UNC were knocked out of it 
    after losing in the ACC tournament.  However, at the end of the regular 
    season (pre-tournament),  UNC was ranked #1.  That's not a stretch, that a 
    fack...(tm)
    
    I'm saying UNC was favored to win?  Let's see, #1 seed, easiest path
    to final 4, picked to win over Kansas, favored over Michigan.  Is that
    stretching it to say they should have been favored to win?  Maybe, it
    only turned out that way.  They were supposed to win.  I think you need
    to channel your conversation towards Mr. Knorr and not towards me.
    
    I don't have to like that UNC won, but I can admit they had a better
    team and deserved it because they were expected to win.  Why is that
    so bad?

    Kudos to ACChris!  You stuck to your guns and your team finally pulled
    through for you.

    
    There's a big difference (in most cases, not involving UNLV-type
    megatalents) between being the favorite and being "expected" to win.
    If you are a small favorite in a few games, as UNC was against Cinci,
    Kansas, and Michigan, odds are you won't win.  Give UNC all the credit 
    for pulling out all three of these well-fought games...
    
    glenn
      

    I think people need to start giving Williams some credit too.  If you
    want to go around pointing figures, the defense should have tried to
    better contain Williams.  He keelt them...
    

>If you want to go around pointing figures, 
    
    I was told it's impolite to point at figures.

>    No, when tournament week started (conference tournaments), UNC was
>    ranked #1.  I think you must be referring to when the big league
>    conferences like the ECAC-North, ECC, and MEAC had started.  That was
>    a week before the major conferences started.  UNC were knocked out of it 
>    after losing in the ACC tournament.  However, at the end of the regular 
>    season (pre-tournament),  UNC was ranked #1.  That's not a stretch, that a 
>    fack...(tm)


     Actually, you said tournament season, it was hard to know what you
     meant.  As far as the polls are concerned, the regular season ended
     with Indiana #1.  It's true, the next-to-last poll of the regular
     season, which was the last one before the ACC tournament, UNC was ranked
     #1.  So why is that week so much more important than any other poll ?
     It seems to have been picked solely for the purpose of downgrading UNC's
     achievement of winning the national title.  There isn't any other reason
     for thinking that poll should be more significant than the poll two weeks
     before the end of the season, or three weeks, etc.

    re .506...
    
    then don't point...
    
    .507
    
    I pointed it out because when I said before the tournaments started, I
    meant regular season.  To me regular season is before the conference
    tournament starts, not when the NCAA's start.  Sort of like saying
    playoffs start with the NLCS and ALCS, not when the World Series
    starts.  At that time, UNC was rated #1.  That's all I'm saying.  Some
    conferences don't have a tournament, you can decide it whenever.
    
    Still can't figure how pointing out they were #1 means I'm downgrading
    their acheivements. If Dallas was the best FB team in the regular
    season, does it downgrade what they did when they won the Superbowl.
    And I bet if an NBA team from Arizona wins the Championship, that won't
    be considered downgrading them if someone says they were supposed to
    win the whole thing... same with the Lemieux fans....

    Chris does anyone give a better KOD than me????
    
    Congrat's to Carolina.  Webber blew it!  A mental mistake that he'll be 
    thinking about for the rest of his life.  Donald Williams is god. 
    Montross delivered his usual average performance.  I'd love to be
    at the Michigan team reunion in about 20 years.  The whole team will be
    walking up to Webber and saying TIME OUT TIME OUT 8*)
    
    Jimbo

    Congratulations Chris on behalf of you and the Carolina Blue family.  A
    masterful job by Dean against a better team.
    
    I disagree on the criticism of Dean's subbing, which is easy because it
    worked.  The key to Carolina victory going in was to take advantage of
    Michigan fatigue from the terrific effort expended Saturday night.
    
    Michigan never developed a killer instinct (sound familiar Larry
    Bird/Celtic fans), perhaps they were just too bushed.
    
    I wondered earlier as did others about Montross vs Webber.  Well Webber
    is #1 draft pick (Bradley - no clue here?); Montross needs to spend a
    summer with Bill Walton developing NBA legs to go with Heart and mind.
    
    Finally, Dean has been the recipient of two boner-Merkles but then
    again it wasn't his Tarheels making the mistakes.
    
    oth-bill

    Now that I'm slowly (VERY slowly) coming down from the exhiliration of
    the Title I'm more impressed than ever by the incredible game that is
    college basketball.  Folks there is simply NOTHING in sports, anywhere
    on the planet, that matches the NCAA Tournament.  The drama, the
    ironies, the tension, the power, the finese, the mind games, the
    strategy, ....  This years tournament had it all, and then some.
    
    Speaking of ironies, ... consider Dean.  The man has a long history of
    being snake-bitten in big games.  Yet the crowning achievements of the
    man's career, his two NCAA Titles (and counting) both took place in the
    same building under what you'd have to consider extremely fortunately
    (lucky) end-of-game circumstances *ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE COURT*. 
    (Almost at the exact same spot!)
    
    Truly incredible ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Now that I'm slowly (VERY slowly) coming down from the exhiliration of
>    the Title I'm more impressed than ever by the incredible game that is
>    college basketball.  Folks there is simply NOTHING in sports, anywhere
>    on the planet, that matches the NCAA Tournament.  The drama, the
>    ironies, the tension, the power, the finese, the mind games, the
>    strategy, ....  This years tournament had it all, and then some.

Well, we are all different, and that's what makes us all so interesting.

Show this statement to most folks in the world, and they'd tell you
that the World Cup blows the NCAA tourney away.

If you ask ME personally, basketball is very low on my list of sports
to watch.   It just does nothing for me.  In fact, if there were some
way that the networks could tell you what time to tune in to the last
five minutes of any given game, it'd be a helluva lot more interesting.

But, that's just my opinion.....


I'm happy for you, Chris.  I really am.  As much as we've bashed you,
and bashed Dean and stuff like that, it's nice to see you have your
day in the sun.

    
>    Speaking of ironies, ... consider Dean.  The man has a long history of
>    being snake-bitten in big games.  Yet the crowning achievements of the
>    man's career, his two NCAA Titles (and counting) both took place in the
>    same building under what you'd have to consider extremely fortunately
>    (lucky) end-of-game circumstances *ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE COURT*. 
>    (Almost at the exact same spot!)
>    
>    Truly incredible ...
    
    
Hmmmmm.....  Have you noticed that there's been a rise in cattle 
mutilations lately?   8^)


'Saw

    Well
    If anyone had reason to gloat and "face" us, it's Sub, er ACChris.
    Never has one been abused for so long and with such good reason,8^),
    than he. If anything, I've had mo fun abusin' he for his surrealistic
    twisticles of logic in defending 1/32. However, as I predicted, going
    out on that limb, that place "that no Ack has gone before", UNC atoned
    and slew the dragon wif its own fire.
    
    And I heartily and sincerely congratulate Dean Smith and the 'Heels
    for a magnificent year....topped off with the Golden Fleece that Chris
    still don't care about.... 8^)
    
    MikeL
    

This just in from MrT via telepathy:

	3 > 2

> In fact, if there were some
> way that the networks could tell you what time to tune in to the last
> five minutes of any given game, it'd be a helluva lot more interesting.
  
    There's a lot of truth to this (although I do enjoy college basketball
    more than you've expressed, 'Saw).  It'd be interesting to hear the 
    Goose's comments on this if he were still around, but once
    again I'll have to express my opinion that in these high-pressure 
    games the referees contrive many calls to keep the game close and 
    interesting and the attention and pressure off their backs.  Yes,
    even in the sacred college game.  The non-travelling call on Webber was
    only the most blatant example of this.  You saw it in the Michigan-UK
    game when a cheap foul was called on Rose to put Ford on the line to
    tie it (after Ford had travelled and then gotten himself boxed in), 
    only to then have the tie score dictate that they swallow the whistles 
    on a subsequent charge by Rose and then again on Rose's shot at the 
    buzzer, allowing the game to go to OT.  Last night in the second half 
    it just seemed that you knew which way the close foul calls and 
    especially the tough loose ball out-of-bounds plays would go-- to the 
    team trailing and trying to catch up, to never allow the game to get
    out of hand one way or the other.
    
    Oh well, it's a game that by definition must be tightly controlled by
    the referees, and there's not much you can do about that and human
    nature, I suppose... 
             
    glenn
                                   

    -1,
    Did the rest of thje message drone: "
    YeaandyouandmebothknowthatBobnevergetstheNukeWidebodyStudsandhismerecoaching
    geniusbringsIUsoooocloseeveryyeartothepinnacleand3issomuchgreaterthan2cuz
    whoelsecouldbringsuchagroupofmediocreroleplayingboysandmoldthemintoa
    vastlyoverachievingtroupeofhardwoodheroesyoueversaw?
    
    MikeL
    
                                            

    >surrealistic twisticles of logic 

Mike, 

You'd better TM that baby.  "twisticles" has SUCH imagery attached to
it......


'Saw

>  <<< Note 21.521 by AXIS::ROBICHAUD "FreddyBrown,BillBuckner,ChrisWebber" >>>
>                       -< He hit him in da twisticles! >-

Like that guy Ray from Buffalo fighting with Brent Hughes in Sunday's
game.

Hughes had him tied up, so the unscrupulous, scum-sucking, dog-anus-licking,
pus-laden Ray proceeded to hit Hughes in his twisticles.......


'Saw


    

    -1,
    Don'r be so ambivalent in yo' feelings, 'Saw. 
    Actually what er, RAYzed an eyebrow to me was Hughes' retort to
    Ray's "below the beltisms". Seems that Hughes told a Globe reporter
    that despite the camera shot, ah, Ray was not "getting at what he
    thought he was getting at"...   Well hush my mouth. Don't tell
    me that we're now gonna find out that Brent neds a separate locker
    room!
    
    
    re. twisticles... Am afraid ta admit tht I ken na give it as much
    justice as you could, imagery-wise, there 'Sawmain. What I had in mind
    was this.. Every time ACC started with his spewing of Sublogic, all I
    could envision was the dancing of the icicles on Christmas trees as
    you heard the constant "bells" of ornaments(remember Wonderful Life).
    Well the more I read, the more these icicles kept dancing and
    twisting in ma haid and the more the bells rang (this is post-hangover,
    mind you), the deeper I looked into the "orb" of this Shaman's mind
    and in accompaniment of the "noise" I was face to face with a drooling
    Professor Irwin Corey wif a UNC cap.  Will UNC's champeenship make
    the twisticles disappear.......? I doubt it.
    
    8^)
    MikeL
    
    

    
    ACC Chris, congrats!!!!
    
    Ya deserve it fer all the grief you've taken in here over the eyars.
    
    
    JaKe
    

>    Don'r be so ambivalent in yo' feelings, 'Saw. 
>    Actually what er, RAYzed an eyebrow to me was Hughes' retort to
>    Ray's "below the beltisms". Seems that Hughes told a Globe reporter
>    that despite the camera shot, ah, Ray was not "getting at what he
>    thought he was getting at"...   Well hush my mouth. Don't tell
>    me that we're now gonna find out that Brent neds a separate locker
>    room!
    

Well, actually, where Ray's hand was impacting was more towards the rear.
Say, the chute, if you will, instead of the ladder......

But you gotta admit Hughes remark does sound funny.....


'Saw

    Congrats Chris on the Heels winning the Big One.
    
    I understand we may get NC early in the season next at MSG.  That'll be
    fun.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    re: SJU vs. UNC
    
    I'll look forward to that matchup, Redmain, assuming it comes to pass. 
    It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Carolina plays SJU, cause Deano made a
    pledge several years ago that he would:
    
    1. Play Notre Dame EVERY year
    2. Play in or near NYC EVERY year
    
    Reason?  R-E-C-R-U-I-T-I-N-G, baby.  North Carolina has recruited the
    New York area extremely well for over 5 *DECADES* now.  Notre Dame adds
    to the "national" appeal of the Carolina program.
    
    Should be a good 'un, what with Scott becoming eligible.  I'd have to
    think St.John's would be preseason #1 in the BigLeast, what wif Wright
    leaving Seton Hall.
    
    In other recruiting news, USA Today has named their Prep All-American
    team, as well as PoY.  (It's Rasheed Wallace.)  There's a little
    "feature" article on the front whose headlines got me all hot and
    bothered, sayin' The Rich (North Carolina) might be gettin' Richer
    (Wallace commits to tutor under el Deano).  Alas though, there's no new
    info.  We'll know in a week or 2, when spring signing opens.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Enjoy the win Chris. You've certainly taken enough sh*t in this file
    over the last ??? number of years.
    
    If the Fab 5 all return to Michigan next year it will be interesting to
    see who the pre-season #1 team will be. Could have the same final game
    matchup next year.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Yabbut that ol saying still rings true;

	"Even a blind pig eventually stumbles into a mudhole once ina while"

Now, does anybody think that if'n a pig wandered around in 32 different
fields, he'd find one?  mebbe 2?  Would it be accidential or could it be
that somebody MADE the mudhole for him to find?


Natcherally, it really has to be said that while Snuffy and his boyz did
take the title, so it must also be said that they didn't *beat* Michigan,
Michigan jest lost (and on a fluke mistaek too!).

So Snuff, the moril of the story iz, if ya wander around the NCAA's long
enuf, dastistically speaking, you'll fall into a title, eventually.  Sertainly
that's no indication of yer intellectual ability to WIN!

as it is written, so it shall be!

I remain,
hopping you git my point!
Kev

    ;^)
    

    Horse Patuties, Kev.  NC won the title.  Ya can't win just by showing
    up, ya know.  :*)
    
    Lee
    
    

I found this out on the Usenet and couldn't resist......


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  * * * * *

Hello netters,
   As an alum of NC State Univ, cross state rival with the Tar heels,
I thought I'd post a UNC/NCSU joke.  In good taste of course!


The setting is a UNC/NCSU football game at Kenan Stadium in
Chapel Hill, NC:

At halftime, a UNC fan sees an individual wandering aimlessly
around the stadium(the concourse area).  He thinks to himself
that he'll help this person out.  He says to the person, "Are
you lost?  You must be from State."  The lost fan replies that
he is indeed lost and that he is indeed from State.  The wanderer
asks; "Can you kindly tell me where the bathroom is at?"

The Chapel Hill fan, who can't let this opportunity to belittle
an NC Stater pass snaps back, "At Carolina they teach us not to end our
sentences in a preposition!"

The State fan then replies:  "OK.  Where's the bathroom at, asshole!"


PS  Flush twice.  It's a long way to Chapel Hill!
Congrats to the Tarheels!  1993 NCAA champs!  Keeping it in the ACC!
Mad Vlad(NCSU class of '84) 

    Rasheed Wallace 6'11" Parade first team all american from Gratz in
    Philly verbally signs with UNC-contingent on his SAT scores being over
    700.
    
    If he does go how does this affect Montross' decision to go pro? He 
    certainly looks like he can use another year of college,but what
    happens if he gets abused in practice by Wallace which COULD happen.
    Would that mess up team morale?
    
    I'm almost certain that this will be the lineup next year.
    
    PG-Phelps
    SG-Williams
    C-Montross
    SF-Reese
    PF-Salvadori/Sullivan
    
    McGinnis will share time with Phelps. Stackhouse will play as much as
    Reese and Wallace will play 15-20 minutes shuttling between PF and
    center(most of the time).
    
    It appears hard to imagine them not repeating barring injuries.

	This is actually a true story.

	Seems there wasa a graduate of UNC and a graduate of Duke attending
	a basketball game between the two teams.  At half time, they went to
	relieve themselves of some of the liquid they had consumed during the 
	firsted half.

	So there they were, standing shoulder to shoulder doing their thing.
	The Tar Heel finished first, pulled up his zipper, flushed and walked
	over to the sink and started to wash his hands.  The Duke guy finished,
	pulled up his zipper, flushed and started to walk towards the door when
	the UNC guy sarcastically said,

	"Doncha know that yer supposed to wash your hands?  Didn't they teach
	you anything about sanitation at Duke?"

	To which the Dukee replied,


	"Naw, they taught us not to pee on our hands!"



	ta boom!

	I remain,
	wondering what ACC_Chris does?  ;^)

	Kev

	I think Kev is just trying to bolster his hopes for his own
	Redmen by pointing out that by wandering through the NCAA's
	enough times, St.John's eventually will fall into the title
	(or at least the title game).

    
    Yabbut we wuz in da title game once.  I think it was '51 or '52.
    
    Considering SJU's recruiting difficulties (I mean would YOU wanna
    go to school in Da City?) they consistently put together a pretty
    good team, competitively speaking.  I don't think they've ever
    been considered to be among the "elite-elite" in college BBall.
    
    But I always like to live the fantasy of SJU winning!
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    da rooter!
    Kev
    

    re: Rasheed Wallace contingently headed to Chapel Hill
    
    Folks this is a case of the rich getting richer.  Without UNC's Title
    (or at least Final4 appearance) I don't believe we get this kid.
    
    Turns out Dean, in a great example of striking while the iron's hot,
    closed this deal on Wednesday with a visit to Philly.  He met with
    Rasheed and his mom and came away with the 'W'.  I simply have GOT to
    believe all the exposure of Carolina's program over the last week was
    the difference.
    
    I'm not concerned about the SAT's.  The kid is close, has a solid 2.8
    GPA, and has signed up for every available remaining SAT exam.  I'll be
    surprised if he's not eligible in the fall.
    
    How does this impact the '93-'94 team?  Wail for one thing it's a giant
    insurance policy should Montross go pro.  Most seem to think he'll stay
    put, which means the loss of George Lynch, huge as it is, will be
    minimized.  It's entirely possible that the '93-'94 edition of North
    Carolina basketball could be the best ever.  With 4 outa 5 starters
    back and an awesome recruiting haul, well, next year would be a good
    one to beef up the schedule to the max.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    It's easy to get carried away about the 93-94 Heels. The big test for
    Dean is if he can give these incoming freshmen the PT they deserve. He
    has intense loyalty to his seniors.
    
    Next March in the real tough games,will he trust Stackhouse and
    Wallace? Freshman/senior dominated teams can be nightmares for
    chemistry. It's up to the coach. Wallace can talk about being
    pateint now,but he's never ridden the pine at crunch time like he will
    next year.

    > I'm not concerned about the SAT's.  The kid is close, has a solid 2.8
    > GPA, and has signed up for every available remaining SAT exam.  I'll be
    > surprised if he's not eligible in the fall.
    
    The hypocrisy of college athletics in general, and the ACC in
    particular, as witnessed by ACChris' cherished academic "standards" at
    UNC.  The world holds its it breath to see if the kid will make the 700
    score, at which point he automatically passes through the admissions
    department without a review, or if he won't, at which point he won't
    even be considered.
    
    glenn
    

    Does this mean Chris that UNC will be in your preseason Top Ten?
    
    But a miracle finish for a tainted title ain't due to come around
    until 2004!!!
    
    NAZZ

    re: Waugamain
    
    Are you tellin' me that the #1 HS player in the country who passes his
    SAT's and has a 2.8 HS GPA should undergo close scrutiny at the
    Admissions office?! 
    
    Haw haw haw!!!!!!!!!!1111
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    What's so funny?  2.8 translates into around a C+, right?  I certainly
    wouldn't have been able to get into the college of my choice with a C+
    average and a 700 SAT.
    
    Oh that's right.  He's not going to college to get an education.  He's
    going to play basketball.  Grades don't really matter, FG% does.

                <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                  -< SPORTS >-
================================================================================
Note 21.544                        ACC Sports                         544 of 544
RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue"                          0 lines   9-APR-1993 14:54
       ^^^^^    -< Reality check: Mac <> RasheedWallace.  HTH ... >-
    		   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    	WOW!!!! Talk about a_oxymoron!!!!!!
    
    
    And in the same note????  This is from the guy who 3 years ago swooned
    afta meeting his idol?????
    
    
    just goes to show ya, there are strange things happening around
    here.....
    
    
    
    I remain,
    wondering if the Pearchtree Sun been beatin down on his haid too long?
    Kev
    
    

    > Are you tellin' me that the #1 HS player in the country who passes his
    > SAT's and has a 2.8 HS GPA should undergo close scrutiny at the
    > Admissions office?! 
    
    Not at all.  What I'm saying is the hypocrisy of the situation is that
    if the kid scores 690, you (at least if consistent with the past) come
    in here chest-puffing about the academic standards of the ACC and UNC,
    no Prop 48s, no JC transfers, no exceptions, no matter how good the
    player.  Yet if he hits 700 (hardly a rigorous standard, hardly a
    standard at all) he's another of Dean's golden examples of the Carolina
    scholar-athlete.
    
    As I've said in the past, it's pretty much the same sad story
    everywhere in college athletics, and I really don't care (cuz the NCAA
    is a glorified minor sports league, and that's not *all* bad), but I
    think it has gotten rather pathetic when kids are scouted and measured
    and recruited and then "committed" to programs far in advance of any 
    official matriculation, and then have to endure the spectacle of taking
    their college boards under the intense scrutiny of recruiting get-a-
    lifers (who could pretty much care less after they pass, as long as 
    they pass).  The best young players have to put up with this for most 
    of their high school lives...
    
    glenn
      

	In case anybody cares he scored a 690 the first time he took the
SAT's. He already took them again in March, he is waiting to hear those
results.

/Ron

    re: Waugamain
    
    Glenn you're throwing around incorrect facts like Michigan throws
    around timeouts.  
    
    For one thing, the ACC has no rule against JUCO's, so you're just flat
    out incorrect on that one.  Dean Smith *chooses* not to take Junior
    College players.  Big differences.
    
    For another thing, show me ONE, just ONE, note where I've chest-puffed
    that the ACC has glorious academic achievements 'cause they don't take
    Prop 48 kids.  You cain't, cause it doesn't exist.  For the record, me
    and Dean are anti-Prop 48 cause the SAT is discriminatory and racially
    biased.  Hypocrisy exists on all levels of college athletics though,
    and ya gots to live within the rules yer given, however dumb they might
    be.
    
    Lastly, if you think I'm gonna chest-puff over Dean's great academic
    accomplishments just cause a would-be player scored a paltry 700 on his
    SAT's you're woefully wrong.  Why would I get excited about what a
    kid's done before Dean's even gotten 'holt of him yet?!  Makes zero
    sense.
    
    On the other hand if Wallace goes on and does what 98% of Dean's other
    players have done and earn his degree (only *4* haven't) you better
    believe I'll be chest-puffing, and rightfully so.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Is a "degree" from North Carolina worth the paper it's printed on????
    
    NAZZ

Can't be worth much Nazz, considering Dean has to go out on the circut begging
for jobs for his boys....

mike

                      
    > For one thing, the ACC has no rule against JUCO's, so you're just flat
    > out incorrect on that one.  Dean Smith *chooses* not to take Junior
    > College players.  Big differences.
    
    I *was* referring to Dean's "policy" on JUCOs, not the ACC's.  From 
    past statements by yourself it's my understanding that academics
    are at the core of this decision.
    
    > For another thing, show me ONE, just ONE, note where I've chest-puffed
    > that the ACC has glorious academic achievements 'cause they don't take
    > Prop 48 kids.  You cain't, cause it doesn't exist.  For the record, me
    > and Dean are anti-Prop 48 cause the SAT is discriminatory and racially
    > biased.
    
    We've had these debates on college academics many times before, and 
    you (if not Dean) appear to have made an amazing change of position:
    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    We can all offer theories on why Dean is better than Mack (or just
>    about anybody else for that matter) when it comes to academics.  
>    
>    But in the end the numbers don't lie.  Brown signed 2 Prop 48 players
>    last year.  Dean has never recruited one.  Brown had 2 players (whom he
>    didn't recruit, but did play under him for 2 years) make it in the NFL
>    last year minus their degree.  And of course the statistic that just 
>    won't go away:  Dean's graduated 100% of his players since 1978.
>    
>    You seem to feel a coach has little or nothing to do with academic
>    performance.  Yet he's the one who goes out and decides who he wants to
>    have play for him.  He's the one who enforces discipline on players in
>    light of academic accomplishments.  (Or lack thereof.)  He's the one
>    who can set the tone that academics are the most important thing a
>    player will come away with.  He's the one who *must* enforce the fact
>    that academic non-performance simply is not tolerated.
>    
>    These are the reasons some coaches are at 100% (Dean) and others below
>    30%.  
    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Never mind that he's won 80 percent of his games over the last 25 years
> with no hint ofscandal.  In a time when a team like UNLV's is celebrated
> as one of the greatest ever, he doesn't bend the rules -- no Prop 48's,
> no jucos, no international quick fixes.  No cars, no fathers as assistants,
> no writing off kids in the program just so he can land a top recruit.
> And no forgetting about players once they stop taking the court for him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
>    *If* Larry Davis fails to reach 700 on his SAT's he won't be going to 
>    Carolina.  It's possible he could go to prep school for a year and then
>    retake the exam (similar to what Cornell Parker did at UVa) but I doubt
>    we'll still be interested then.  
    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    In any case, my initial comment on the hypocrisy of the situation 
    around the magic "700" number wasn't even directed at you, but at the 
    NCAA in general and the ACC in particular.  Your reaction seemed to be 
    that this was ridiculous; that signing up a player in advance of 
    passing his tests, outside of the spirit of the ACC rules, was a 
    no-brainer, academics be damned.  That's not what I've heard in the 
    past. 
              
    glenn
    

    Congrats to the TarHeels and to Dean*
    
    -dan'l
    
    *Dean deserves the asterisk since both his titles were handed to him
    on a silver platter.  Webber and Brown both gagged on it big time.
    
    (dan'l's point of view, not mine, but I told him I'd enter it for him.)
    

    re: dan'l
    
    Tanks, I think.  BTW people, I actually got some internet mail from
    King Weasel hisself, Mr.Bob "Ketchup" Hunt, offering congratulatory
    salutations and admitting that he'd been wrong about Dean all these
    years.  (Wail, I *did* get mail from him ...)
    
    
    re: glenn
    
    When I can figure out what your point is, I'll be glad to respond. 
    Until then let's both agree that:
    
    1. The fact that Dean doesn't take Prop 48's is no longer an issue,
       since the ACC has now mandated against this;
    
    2. Dean has only had four (4) players *not* graduate.  All five (5)
       seniors on this years team will graduate;
    
    3. Dean is a model to be emulated in terms of defining the student-
       athlete.  Those who think this concept is a joke oughta take a 
       good hard look at how Dean does it, and by "those" I'm referring
       to college presidents who seem to only care about the W's and not
       the BS/BA's.
    
       BTW, just how *does* Dean do it?  The key is recruiting.  You've
       got to be selective, not just in terms of who you take but in the
       mix of players you take.  Mixing in kids who've come from bad
       academic backgrounds (inner city) with a Montross, Scott Williams,
       or Rodl is a positive.  Another benchmark is to focus more on high
       school grades than SAT scores.  HS grades tend to better reflect
       effort, which anyone will tell you is the key to anything in life.
       Finally, a prospects family is key.  If he's had a strong influence
       from mom and/or dad chances are he's got what it takes to earn his
       degree.
    
       What about the kid who's unfortunate enough to not have these things
       going for him?  What if North Carolina, Duke, or Indiana *aren't*
       beating his door down?  I've no problem with giving a kid a chance,
       but you're doing everyone an injustice to load up on these types of
       players.  You've got to get the proper mix, and you've got to do
       everything in your power to make that kid study.  Anything less 
       and, IMO, you're simply using kids for their eligibility and
       spitting them out on the sidewalks several years later, where that
       job Mr. Brydie talked about awaits.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    > When I can figure out what your point is, I'll be glad to respond. 
    
    My point, which you confirmed perfectly back in .542 by laughing at
    the notion that a top athlete with a substandard SAT score should have
    to undergo scrutiny by the admissions office at UNC, was that this
    nonsense about "selective recruiting" and the "proper mix" is so much 
    baloney when it comes to the recruitment of the best players in the 
    country.  Even with Dean Smith.  As suggested by your comments on Larry
    Davis, what it boils down to is that if such a player decides to go UNC
    and can make the (low) grade, then he's obviously a diamond in the rough 
    who Dean wisely saw the potential for, if he doesn't, then he was 
    somehow personally deficient.  This is a bunch of crap.
    
    The fact that you have done an about-face on the merits of giving Prop
    48 kids a chance (you castigated Mack Brown for it!) is only doubly 
    embarrassing...
    
    glenn
    

    
    Mr. Brydie????
    
    Since when did we decide to become sooooo formal?
    
    I remain,
    preferring just plain ol' Tommy,
    Kev
    

    Seems this NC State fan was wandering around lost at the last meeting
    of UNC and NC State, looking fer the men's room.  A UNC supporter asked
    if he could be of assistance to the NC State fan, to which the NC State
    fan asked:
    
    "Could you tell me where the bathroom is at??"
    
    The UNC supporter, hearing the poor grammar of the question shot back,
    
    "here at UNc we don't end our sentences with a preposition, would you
    kindly re state the question??"
    
    The NC State fan immediately said
    
    "OK, can you tell me where the bathroom is at, a$$hole!!!!"
    
    
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

Jake, I posted that one about two weeks ago in one of the ACC notes.


Gotta get updated, dude!


8^)

    re-.1
    
    'Saw,
    
    Go dial 1-800-Kwitcherbitchin'!!!
    
    (8^)*
    
    Seeing as I normally don't read this note, I sorta missed it.  40
    lashes wif a wet noodle??
    
    JaKe
    

    re: glenn
    
    The next hypocritical note I enter into SPORTS will also be my first. 
    HTH.
    
    In sum, you've taken snipets of a note I entered long ago (before the ACC
    put an end to the admission of Prop48 casualties) and, based on purely
    circumstantial assumptions on your part, deduct that it's hypocritical
    for me to say Rasheed Wallace should sail thru the admissions office once 
    he passes his SAT's when at one point I'd critized MackBrown for taking
    Prop48 kids.
    
    The folly of your feeble attempts are everywhere, but for starters cain
    we at least understand that:
    
    RasheedWallace (an assumed Prop48 *qualifier*) 
    
    <>
    
    MackBrown signing up Prop48 football players
    
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    >           -< Waugamain does hatchet job on ACC Chris.  :^( >-
    >
    > re: glenn
    >
    > The next hypocritical note I enter into SPORTS will also be my first. 
    > HTH.
    
    Geez, Chris, relax, wouldya?  As I've already said, my base note on
    this subject made a rather innocuous point on the hypocrisy of college
    athletics (not you) with respect to academics, and you chose to take
    that as a personal assault (accusing *me* of hypocrisy, when I've been
    100% consistent on the subject of SAT scores, standards, grad rates,
    etc.), challenging me to "show you" where you'd ever indicated that 
    Prop-48 athletes are liabilities (which I did).  I stand by my original 
    point, which has nothing to do with *you*: Dean Smith has already 
    indicated that Rasheed Wallace passes his personal "character test", 
    irrespective of what any potentially bogus SAT test score says.  That 
    says to me that the ACC's cherished Prop-48 policy is only a 
    technicality, at best, and nothing to be proud of academically. 
    
    glenn
     

Normally, one can count on our resident Tar Heel fan[s] to provide the
relevant details of something as monumental as winning the hoops
championships. But alas, one fack not reported here was the when Donald
Williams won the MVP title, he dedicated it to Jimmy Valvano. I didn't
see the interview so I can't confirm the second part of what I heard
which was that the team dedicated the championship to him, as well. 

In any case, Donald Williams may have done more for detente between State
and Chapel Hill than all previous efforts. That and Dean throwing the
pitch out at the Yankees for Jimmy V puts a whole new light on this
rivalry, at least for this noter.

TTom

    Reality check time, TTom: 
    
    The UNC/NCState rivalry is *HISTORY*.  A thing of the past.  A blip on
    the horizon.  An anomoly for the text books.
    
    Why?  Two (2) reasons immediately come to mind:
    
    1. Jimmy V's illness and undoubted impending death has dealt everybody
       a heavy dose of perspective.  When you consider how much Valvano
       respects Dean & UNC and the fact that he tried to recruit many of
       the Carolina players, it's not surprising the rivalry is on the
       backburner.
    
    2. NCState's program is in such decline that a win over *anybody* is
       cherished.  State doesn't have the luxury of pointing toward the
       Carolina games each year when they're losing to UNC-Asheville and
       struggling past Davidson.
    
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Reality check time, TTom: 

Very typical of you to totally miss the point.

First of all, to address your trivial response, how long has the ACC been
in existence? Subtract one year - this year - and that's how long State
has been a competitive rival with Chapel Hill. In fact, I remember not
too long - like last year - when the Pack swept the vaunted Heels in
regular season. If'n you want to check out other eras, try the one when
David Thompson played and look up how many times Dean beat David. That's
what it looks like when there's no competition.

Back to the point which you almost got to in your haste to put down
State: respect. Jim Valvano and Dean Smith have a very strong friendship
based on mutual respect. And Dean has obviously included this in his
team preparation.

Whenever a Tar Heel is interviewed you get 2 things: coach, team (or is
it team, coach?). Now here we have a case where the players say a third
thing: Jimmy V.

If'n it's good enough for Dean, it's good enough for me.

TTom

    re: JimmyV
    
    In the UNC > Michigan game Carolina ran an inbounds play that resulted
    in an alley-oop dunk for Lynch.  At that point the first thought that
    popped into my head was Jimmy Valvano screaming:
    
    "SPECIAL PLAYS!  YA GOTTA STOP CAROLINA'S SPECIAL PLAYS!!!"  
    
    There's no doubt Dean & JimmyV share a mutual respect at minimum, but
    more likely there appears to be a genuine friendship there.  Dean
    is so private we'll probably never really know or understand it, but I
    almost get the feeling Valvano respects Dean so much because he does
    the things Jimmy didn't do but perhaps wishes he had.  Both coaches are
    very similar in terms of the impressions they've left on their
    student-athletes.  The difference is that V had to recruit too many
    marginal students and paid dearly as a result.
    
    Ironically, Dean himself is partly to blame.  It must be
    extraordinarily difficult to compete with Carolina in terms of
    recruiting, and the pressure to beat UNC is enormous for whoever the
    State coach happens to be.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

re: Valvano

I totally agree with the statement about the friendship between Dean and
Jimmy. It obvious. While Dean doesn't say all that much about what he
doesn't like but he's very willing to say who he does like. Valvano
is one that a lot of people wouldn't think of as a friend of Dean's. In
fact, most Tar Heel fans I know really hate him. A couple of year's ago,
there was a celibrity golf tournament in town and all the "stars" were
introduce at a Hornets game. The biggest response to anyone was the
resounding boos at Jimmy V. Bob McAdoo is another that "fans" bad mouth
even though he's a favorite of Dean's.

The pressure to coach at State of any other program in the ACC is much
more difficult than it ever has been. Dean has always been there but
Coach K has really upped the ante with another national program. Current
coach Les Robinson is defenitely feeling the heat and one can expect
State to do something if'n Les can't start winning some games, getting
some decent recruits and keeping his players academically eligible.

TTom

I saw this on the USENET. I don't know who this guy is but it seemed
interesting. FWIW,enjoy.

Bob Gibbons' top 50:
 
1. Jerry Stackhouse      WF  6-6  Va     UNC
2. Randy Livingston      PG  6-4  La     LSU
3. Rasheed Wallace       C/F 6-11 Pa     UNC
4. Ronnie Henderson      2G  6-4  MS     LSU
5. Jason Osborne         WF  6-8  KY     Lou
6. Jacque Vaughn         PG  6-0  CA     Kan
7. Rashard Griffith      C   7-0  Il     Wis
8. Charles O'Bannon      WF  6-6  Ca     UCLA, KY, MICH???
9. Jeff McInnis          PG  6-4  Va     UNC
10. Dontonio Wingfield   PF  6-8  Ga     Cin
11. Avondre Jones        C   6-10 Ca     USC, Mich, Ariz, UCLA others???
12. Joey Beard           PF  6-10 Va     Duke
13. Darnell Robinson     C   6-11 Ca     Ark
14. Jon Gavaiglia        PF  6-9  MI     Mich St
15. Kiwane Garris        2G  6-2  Il     Ill
16. Ray Allen            2G  6-5  SC     UConn
17. Jason Lawson         C   6-10 Pa     Villa
18. Scot Pollard         C   6-10 WA     Kan
19. Rayshard Allen       PF  6-7  La     Tul
20. Sherron Wilkerson    2G  6-4  In     Ind
21. Keith Booth          WF  6-6  Md     Mary
22. Bobby Crawford     1/2G  6-3  Tx     Mich
23. Tom Pipkins          2G  6-4  Pa     Duquesne
24. Joe Smith            PF  6-9  Va     Mary
25. Dan Earl             PG  6-4  NJ     Penn State
26. James Collins        2G  6-4  Fl     FSU
27. Jerald Honeycutt     PF  6-9  La     LSU, Tul, Ark, UCLA????
28. Sylvester Ford      G/F  6-6  Tn     Mem St, Ark, Mich???
29. Damon Flint         G/F  6-6  Oh     Ohio State
30. Jalil Roberts       2G   6-5  NJ     Wis
31. Cedric Henderson    WF   6-7  Tn     Mem St
32. Chuck Gelatt        PF   6-8  NY     Syr
33. Kirkland King     P/WF   6-7  La     UConn
34. Stais Boseman       2G   6-4  Ca     USC (football?)
35. Jeff Capel          PG   6-4  NC     Duke
36. Michael Stewart     C/F  6-10 Ca     Cal
37. Roshown McLeod      PF   6-8  NJ     StJohn
38. Donnell Williams  P/WF   6-7  NJ     Seton
39. Melvin Drake       G/F   6-6  Ga     Georgia
40. Edward Gray        2G    6-3  Ca     Tenn
41. Antonio McDyess    C/F   6-9  MS     JC, Ala, MissSt, Ark???
42. Richard Mandeville C     7-0  Ca     Ind
43. Alvin Williams     PG    6-4  Pa     Vill
44. Nathan Langley    2G     6-3  DC     Prov, Seton, Minn, Kan, Temple, WVU??
45. Marcus Camby       C     6-10 Ma     UMass
46. Jeff Sheppard     1/2G   6-3  Ga     Ky
47. Chianti Roberts   1/2G   6-6  Ok     Okla St
48. Danyell Macklin   G/F    6-6  Ky     West Ky
49. Erick Dampier     C      7-0  MS     Miss St
50. Lee Wilson        C      6-10 Tx     Ark (I think)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Tim Beidel                                                tb1153@csc.albany.edu
                       BLIND SQUIRREL CONSULTING
Albany, NY                                                   South Portland, ME
_______________________________________________________________________________
    

    And the top 15 women.
    
Article: 37304
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 08:59:58 EDT
From: Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college,psu.sports
Subject: Women's basketball's top 15 freshman, among other things
 
 
    ******************************************************
    * WOMEN'S NCAA BASKETBALL      NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!!! *
    * 1992-1993 MAILING LIST       ********************* *
    * NEWS...NEWS...NEWS...        NO. 1 TEXAS TECH      *
    *                                   LADY RAIDERS     *
    * Saturday, April 17, 1993     1993 NCAA CHAMPIONS!!!*
    ******************************************************
 
    Update on that team schedule thing...if anyone gets a copy of their
    team's schedule, could you US Mail me at the following address :
                          Rob Polinsky
                          1572 Loretta Drive
                          Pittsburgh, PA 15235-2322
 
    Thanks!!!  IF you want a copy of the Penn State schedule, tell me
    that in the note, and I'll send one back to you.
 
    Anyone interested in going to next year's final four in Virginia,
    call the following number : (913) 339-1906.  They'll give you an
    application to get tickets.
 
    Texas Tech star Sherryl Swoopes was drafted by Daytona Beach in
    the 2nd round (I believe?) of the United States Basketball League.
    Swoopes said she will go over to Europe anyways.  Swoopes was only
    the second woman to be drafted in the league, behind Cheryl Miller
    in 1986 (Must be the name, huh?)
 
    NATIONAL SIGN-UP DAY
    -------- ------- ---
    Experts say Georgia had the best recruits, followed by Stanford.
    Other than that, I don't know who signed who.
 
    The top 15 incoming freshman :
 
    FIRST TEAM
    ----- ----
    1. La'keshia Frett 6-2, 31.4 ppg, had games of 50 and 51 this year.
       USA TODAY NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR.  Signed with Georgia.
    2. Erinn Reed, 5-6, poijnt guard, 30 ppg.  Signed with Iowa.
    3. Jamila Wideman, 5-6.5, point guard, 17.2 ppg. Signed with Stanford
    4. Pat Luckey, 6-1, resembles Swoopes, 24.6 ppg. Signed with Houston
    5. Leslie Johnson, 6-0, 28.4 ppg.  Signed with Purdue.
 
    If anyone knows who these players signed with, e-mail me.  Thanks!
 
    TEAM 2
    ---- -
    6. Abby Conklin, 6-3, C, 36.9 ppg         out of Indiana
    7. Konecka Drakeford, 5-10, G, 40.3 ppg   out of North Carolina
    8. Tamecka Dixon, 5-11, G-F, 28.4 ppg     out of New Jersey
    9. Kate Starbird, 6-1, G-F, 29.3 ppg      out of Washington
    10 Jannon Roland, 6-2, C, 29.6 ppg        out of Ohio
 
    TEAM 3
    ---- -
    11 Tiffany Longworth, 5-7, G, 20.9 ppg    signed with Penn State.
    With her and Mack, whew this is one deadly guard force.  If Rene
    Plays her a lot, it will likely propel Penn State to the Big 10
    Championship and far in NCAA'S.  Wait 'til '95 -- could very well
    be National Champions.  I say this from a non-biased view.
    12 Kim Williams, 5-6, G, 20.9 ppg         out of Chicago Marshall
    13 Tara Harrington, 6-1, G, 15.0 ppg      out of Oregon
    14 Tracy Henderson, 6-3, C, 24.7 ppg      out of Minnesota
    15 Maquisha Walker, 6-0, F-C, 25.3 ppg    out of Louisiana
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Robbie Po **          PGH PENGUINS!!!    "It won't be easy, but it
Contact for the '93-'94  '91 STANLEY CUP    will have greater rewards.
Penn State Lady Lions    '92 CHAMPIONS      Mountains and Valleys are
rap115@psuvm.psu.edu     11 STRAIGHT WINS!  better than nothing at all!"
    

One recruit not making this list is Greg Newton who was the Canadian POY.
He's a 6-11 Center signed to Duke. Newton is playing in some of the all
star games with those listed in .569.

For those who haven't seen him, he looks like the real deal. I saw a clip
that showed him on a break away. He dribbled well, especially for his
size, took it strong to the hoop, jumped up, double pumped it and jammed.
Dominique woulda been proud of it.

FWIW, Bob Gibbons is a local talent (NC) who publishes high school
recruiting information.

TTom

    Based on the results of the last several recruiting hauls the ACC is
    well poised to retain its position as the #1 conference in the USA. 
    (If anyone would care to debate this point, consult NCAA Tournament
    results over any of the last several years.  The ACC is clearly numero
    uno.)  The B10 did well overall with some nice balance.  Seven (7)
    teams inked at least one (1) Top50 prospect.  The BigLeast?  They
    continue to struggle.  While the *overall* numbers are okay (7 signees,
    as opposed to 9 by the B10 and 8 by the ACC & SEC) the quality is not
    there.  The conference didn't sign a single "big impact" player along
    the lines of a Randy Livingston or Rasheed Wallace.  Of course, I've
    been documenting this problem for the last five (5) years or so now, so
    it's the same-old-same-old as far as I'm concerned.
    
    Here's how I rank the ACC in terms of recruiting:
    
    1. North Carolina.  Simple flat out awesome.  Wallace was the icing
       on the cake of the best high quality talent snatch in Carolina
       history.  
    
    2. Dook.  Outstanding effort by CoachK, only a slight notch below the
       Heels.
    
    3. Maryland.  Getting Booth was a major koo, cause Maryland's really
       been struggling to keep the awesome talent this geography generates
       at home.  Between last years solid group and this years, Gary
       Williams is finally on the right track.
    
    4. NC State.  Les has gone out and closed some excellent JUCO deals.
       Some quick-fix help is just what the doctor ordered here, and I
       can envision The Pack being the most improved team in the ACC next
       year (even though they'll be nowhere near a contender or even .500
       for that matter).
    
    5. FSU.  Don't let the lone signee fool you.  Despite significant
       losses the 'Noles have a couple players coming back from injuries,
       and I've seen this kid Collins ranked much higher than 26th.
    
    6. Virginia.  The Cavs *desperately* wanted Lawson to replace Ted
       Jeffries, but local favorite Villanova was apparently too much.
       Still, the Cavs are a young team (although rumors are Cory Alexander
       is history after this year) and signed several quality players.
       Not sure what they're gonna do for a center though ...
    
    7. GaTech.  Tech did what they absolutely had to do, sign a center.
       Forget his name but he's 6-9 or so for New York (Long Island I
       believe.)  Supposedly a nice player with some shooting range.
       The Jackets are very young, almost everybody's back (and they'll
       still be underclassmen!), and Mackey won't be missed, IMO.
    
    8. Wake Forest.  The Rodney Rogers watch is in full-force.  If he
       stays, Wake's golden.  If he goes, Odom is all set to sign 2, maybe
       3, 6-8 players.  
    
    9. Clemson.  Cliff Ellis' one-year contract extension did nothing
       for recruiting.  The Tigers will be decent next year, certainly
       no pushover (Sharone Wright is 1st-round NBA material) but
       a .500 record and I'd nominate Ellis for CoY.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

Tar Heels mortal locks to repeat in 1994... anything less would be considered
...uh...you know... the big U word.

    Is O'Bannon Ed's brother?
    

    re: .574
    
    Yes.

    I saw Juwan Howard totally dominate Sharone Wright in the 1991 Boston
    Shootout.  Howard had 23 points and 15 rebounds; Wright had 0 (that's
    right, ZERO) points and 4 rebounds.  So I wouldn't go stickin' Wright
    in the NBA yet.
    
    NAZZ

 I think we should call the NCAA and have Dale Brown investigated. How does
 this bible thumpin' rabble rousin' mental midget still get his hands on
 all this talent, only to waste it? Got to be some dirt there......

 Atleast with Snuffy it's understandable why he gets all his talent. It's
 the lip service that the pros and the vitales of the world pay him...

 mike

A little more on recruiting at State.

One of State's non-juco signings was Jeremy Hyatt from Neptune Beach, FL.
Hyatt, 6-6, averaged 19 pts, 6 rebounds and 5 assists a game. Hyatt also
started at QB for his football team. He's projected at shooting guard.

The best part is how he ended up at State. Jimmy Black was recruiting him
for Notre Dame. Hyatt let it be known that he had no interest in the
Irish. Jimmy calls his buddy, Buzz Peterson a_assitant coach at State.
The Pack sent a coach to watch him in the state playoffs and Hyatt
proceded to score 40.

TTom

    re: .-1
    
    Good story.  There's another kid on Hyatt's team who was much more
    sought after.  I think Black was actually going down to watch the other
    kid and liked what he saw in Hyatt.  Unfortunately for Jimmy Black, Hyatt
    said NW (No Way) to ND.  

    re: SharoneWright
    
    I remember that Boston Shootout game.  Wright was a complete no-show. 
    Equally awful was his performance in the UNC @ Clemson game this year. 
    Montross dominated him, but the kicker was when he picked up his 4th
    foul early in the 2nd half, barked to the ref, and quickly got whistled
    for a technical, which counted for his *5th* foul!  Haw haw haw!!!111
    I luved it, truly I did.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Exsqueeze me, but did I die and go to heaven, or was that *really* a
    comemorative issue of Sports Illustrated I picked up at Kroger last
    night celebrating the '92-'93 UNC Championship season?!!!
    
    An entire SI, almost commercial-free, dedicated to Dean & Carolina!!
    YEEEEE HAWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Didn't it have "Paid commercial advertisement" written across each and every 
page?


Metz

    I got one in the mail....used it in my wood burning stove :-)
    
    Ben

    Sat down for another viewing of UNC > Michigan this morning (no, I
    wadn't playing hookey from work) for a little pick-me-up, and I got to
    watching the Carolina coaching staff when it occured to me how
    fortunate Dean has been to have Bill Guthridge by his side all these
    years.
    
    Consider for a minute that here's a guy who's been offered countless
    opportunities at head jobs at major Division 1 schools across the
    country, yet has turned 'em all down to remain by Dean's side.  (He
    actually accepted a job at Penn State a few years back and, in a move
    that would make Bobby Cremins proud, called 'em back and said he
    couldn't leave Carolina.)  Big deal you say?  Well consider that it's
    highly likely that Bill Guthridge would make a *better* coach than
    either Roy Williams or Eddie Fogler and you realize what a valuable
    asset he is.  Effectively Carolina has the luxury of having *two*
    top-shelf coaches on the sidelines and on the recruiting trail.  Throw
    in a former Collegiate All-American & NBA veteran Phil Ford and you've
    got quite a coaching arsenal. 
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Sat down for another viewing of UNC > Michigan this morning (no, I
>    wadn't playing hookey from work) for a little pick-me-up, and I got to


As Tommy would say, "perhaps you have a little too much free time on your
hands.


>    watching the Carolina coaching staff when it occured to me how
>    fortunate Dean has been to have Bill Guthridge by his side all these
>    years.

Always good to have someone around who knows the Heimlich Manuever.

    
>    Consider for a minute that here's a guy who's been offered countless
>    opportunities at head jobs at major Division 1 schools across the
>    country, yet has turned 'em all down to remain by Dean's side.  

No guts, scared to leave Dean.  Maybe he's Dean's Wooly Butt Boy.


>    (He
>    actually accepted a job at Penn State a few years back and, in a move
>    that would make Bobby Cremins proud, called 'em back and said he
>    couldn't leave Carolina.)  Big deal you say?  

Can't commit.  Can't honor commitments.   

Did we say "big deal"?  

(In my best Al voice):	I don't think so, Chris.





>    Well consider that it's
>    highly likely that Bill Guthridge would make a *better* coach than
>    either Roy Williams or Eddie Fogler and you realize what a valuable
>    asset he is.  Effectively Carolina has the luxury of having *two*
>    top-shelf coaches on the sidelines and on the recruiting trail.  Throw
>    in a former Collegiate All-American & NBA veteran Phil Ford and you've
>    got quite a coaching arsenal. 
    

So basically what it boils down to is that, not only are they a paltry
2-32 under Dean, they're a paltry 2-32 under Dean and a plethora
of thigh-shuddering coaching talent.


Guess that lessens Dean-o's statue even more.

Guess they'll have to re-name that Dome to

		The Dean and Coaching Arsenal Dome



Sounds good to me.....


'Saw

    Rasheed Wallace announced the results of his latest attempt at the SATs
    yesterday..... He acheived "more than a 700". His attempts to reach
    Dean Smith to tell him the results yesterday were fruitless.... Dean
    didn't return his calls.
    
    Dennis Faust
    

    re: Wallace "makes the grade"
    
    That *is* good news, although not terribly surprising.  The kid has
    solid HS grades and just missed on his first attempt.
    
    Kudos, Rasheed!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Wouldn't it be great if the kid gets pissed off that Dean wouldn't return
 his "calls" and checks into another program?

 mike

Over 700?

Wow, that's rocket science man.  Better get that kid off the basketball
course, and find a big ol' think tank to put him in.   Those brain skeels
are being wasted on the court....

Whoee.  You figure 400 for putting your name on the sheet.  

I hope he shoots field goals with a better percentage than he answers
SAT questions.....


'Saw

    The SAT's are racially biased and clearly put poor inner-city kids at a
    *huge* disadvantage over the population at-large.  It's unfair to label
    a kid like Wallace "dumb" because of this but, unfortunately, you and
    all the Dookies will no doubt be throwing his score in his face for
    most of his career at Chapel Hill.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    "Dean and I have *never* recruited a Prop-48 athlete".
    
    						--Chris Knorr
    

Oh, okay, so now we're gonna hear the excuse that Rasheed is from the
inner city, so he couldn't do well on his SATs.     Okay, that's cool.

The test was biased.   I wonder if his arm was in a cast, or if he
had finals that week, or.......


(Just kidding.......)


'Saw

    I just find it very unfortunate that, because of the NCAA's stupid
    Prop-48 rule, SAT scores become such public knowledge for these kids
    (especially the borderline ones) that they're subjected to ridicule and
    humiliation.  
    
    Dean was at his all-time best when, after the infamous Dook "JR CAN'T
    REID" signs, stated that (Reid + Scott Williams) > (Laettner +
    [somebody_else_who_I_cain't_remember]).  It's also noteworthy that
    Laettner still hasn't graduated, while JR Reid has.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    I just find it very unfortunate that, because of the NCAA's stupid
>    Prop-48 rule, SAT scores become such public knowledge for these kids
>    (especially the borderline ones) that they're subjected to ridicule and
>    humiliation.  

To make you feel better, I'm going to publish my Jump Test Scores:

	1st attempt:  2"

	2nd attempt:  3.5"

	3rd attempt:  6"

I won't tell you what I got on my SATs.....

    
>    Dean was at his all-time best when, after the infamous Dook "JR CAN'T
>    REID" signs, stated that (Reid + Scott Williams) > (Laettner +
>    [somebody_else_who_I_cain't_remember]).  It's also noteworthy that
>    Laettner still hasn't graduated, while JR Reid has.
    

No, I think Dean was at his all time best when he forgot how much time
he had left (despite all those clocks in the building)......



'Saw

    
    Of course Reid has graduated.  Any school that takes someone with a
    mere 700 on the SAT obviously doesn't have tough academic requirements. 
    JR is proof of dat.
    
    brews

The SAT may be racially biased to some extent but anybody that has a 
legitimate 2.8 gpa in high school should be easily able to score a 700 on them.

The cut off limit for SAT's should be a minimum 900 or 1000. I can't believe
anybody with a desire for a higher education would call up and crow to the 
coach that they got a 700 on the SAT's ....Rasheed should be embarrased with
his score instead of being estatic about it...

Then again he's going to major in basketball not in a legitimate advanced field
of study, isn't he?


Metz

>    Of course Reid has graduated.  Any school that takes someone with a
>    mere 700 on the SAT obviously doesn't have tough academic requirements. 
>   JR is proof of dat.
    

 with credits received for a radio call in show that he was a part of when
 he was with the Hornets.....

mike

    Not that it's been explicitly stated (implied is more like it) but JR
    Reid was *NOT*, repeat, *NOT*, borderline on his SAT's.  He comes from
    a strictly middle class background (mother is a teacher) and majored in
    Communications.  (Same major as Eric Montross, who notched around a
    1200 on his SAT's and considers it the perfect degree for his post-NBA
    future as a lawyer.)
    
    As to JR earning credits working at a radio station, why not?  In the
    computer biz it's possible to receive college credits for all kinds of
    work-related experience.  For a Communications major to get credit for
    working at a radio station certain seems plausible to me.
    
    I haven't heard the story of Wallace calling Dean after his successful
    SAT foray - kindof assumed it was somebody's joke.  Until I hear the
    full story my attorney (Dean) has advised me it would be unwise to
    comment.  I *will* state that it's POSSIBLE calling Wallace
    could've violated some technocrat NCAA rules violation, the details of
    which boggle the mind.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    It seems like 70% of college athletes playing on TV major in
    communications.

    In the time following UNC's champeenship I got to axing myself an
    interesting question:  How do the '93 'Heels compare with the '82
    edition?  Who would win in a mythical game between them, assuming
    both teams were "frozen in time" and matched up as they were after
    their respective Georgetown & Michigan games??
    
    Fascinating stuff for all I'm sure.  Here's how I see the matchups:
    
    Worthy vs. Lynch
    
    One of 'em already has his '52' hanging from the DeanDome rafters; 
    the other will have his '34' up their soon enough.  Worthy
    was a man playing with boys throughout his college career; he was 
    the '82 Final4 MVP, tossing down 28 big ones.  Lynch was the regional 
    finals MVP and possesses more guts, moxy, and leadership than any Tar 
    Heel in memory, probably of all-time.  (NOTE: During this years
    Carolina basketball banquet Dean was speaking eloquently of his
    seniors, got to Lynch, and broke down after one (1) sentence and had to
    quit his speech.)
    
    Advantage: Even.
    
    
    Black vs. Phelps
    
    Intriguing matchup between NYC schoolboys.  Black struggled during much
    of his career trying to replace the irreplacable Phil Ford, but he
    developed into the consummate UNC point guard.  Phelps' defense is
    unparalleled.  They're equal in leadership qualities.  Neither shoots
    well.  Phelps is the better penetrator.
    
    Advantage: Phelps
    
    
    Doherty vs. Reese
    
    Completely different players.  Doherty was a vital cog on the '82 team
    cause he didn't hunt his shot, but honestly he was a guy *very* lucky
    to be keeping the company he was.  Reese is a future NBA megabucks
    performer.
    
    Advantage: Reese
    
    
    Perkins vs. Montross
    
    Another intriguing matchup.  Perkins, wail, Sam simply put together
    four (4) of the most solid years anybody ever put in at Chapel Hill. 
    Shot blocker, excellent shooter, solid rebounder.  Eric made life
    miserable for the opposition as his size makes him uncontrollable on
    the blocks.
    
    Advantage: Perkins
    
    
    Jordan vs. Williams
    
    A no-brainer for Michael?!  Not_so_fast.  Jordan was good in '82, but
    he was still a skeeny frosh.  I've always thought that the biggest
    difference between the highly touted but still human Jordan in '82 and
    the megabucks superstar we've seen over the years is because he grew so
    much after coming to Chapel Hill.  I don't know if it was the water or
    what, but the guy grew from 6-2 to 6-6, which carried him from 'Awfully
    tough to control' to 'Ferget about it - he does what he wants'.  Jordan
    hit the '82 game-winner; Williams hit all the big shots for UNC the
    entire tourney, and iced the game with 'throws.
    
    Advantage: Even
    
    
    '82 bench vs. '93 bench
    
    I said all year that Carolina's bench was overrated, but compared to
    the '82 team they look like superstars.  UNC had no bench in '82. 
    None.  This year we had the serviceable Sullivan, the shot-blocking
    Salvadori, and the minute-eater Rodl.
    
    Advantage: '93
    
    
    Summary:
    
    Overall the '84 Carolina team was the most talented, but the KennySmith
    injury proved too much to overcame.  In a mano-a-mano game between '82
    UNC & '93 UNC I'd have to rate the edge to the '93 team because of
    better chemistry and a better bench.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    
    

>    In the time following UNC's champeenship I got to axing myself an
>    interesting question:  How do the '93 'Heels compare with the '82
>    edition?  

Probably about equal.  Both had to depend on the other team's blunder
to bring home their tainted champeenship banner.



>Who would win in a mythical game between them, assuming
>    both teams were "frozen in time" and matched up as they were after
>    their respective Georgetown & Michigan games??
    
Neither.  Since there's no other team involved to make a blunder,
they'd play ad infinitum (ad nauseum too) till the Snuff man dropped
dead of boredom wif da system.



A fascinating comparison indeed.  Ranks right up there with the time
I compared my belly button lint with that found in the pockets of my
jeans.....


hth,
'Saw

    I thought it compared to Tory Amos vs. Nirvana doing "Smells Like
    Teen Spirit."  Nirvana gets the slam dance/head bang vote, but not
    so fast... this was a young group and Tory Amos eerieness she adds
    to the tune should not be overlooked.
    

	Ahhh.....huh?

	billl

    	'82 vs. '93 Matchup
    
    	Would end in a tie since neither team has a Freddie Brown and/or
    Chris Webber on the roster.
    
    				/Don

    
    
          82 Would win cuz the 92 team couldn't hold the jock of the
    G'town 82 team.
    
    
    Chappy
    
         Remember some infamous noter said right before the tourney that
    NC can't shoot dfrom the outside and therefore won't get far.
    
    

in the immortal words of Tommy B., ACk ACK , you got to much free time on
your hands.........

mike

    re: .-1
    
    Ah, at last, our first quasi-intelligent response to my intriguing
    mythical matchup.  
    
    Mr. Chappy, while you certainly get_a "A" for effort, I've got a few 
    problems:
    
    1. "the 92 team couldn't hold the jock ..."
    
    I assume we're talking about the *1993* Tar Heels.  Sadly, the '92 
    edition of UNC basketball was sub-standard by Dean standards, only
    winning 25 or so ball games and reaching the Sweet 16.
    
    2. Whoever the noter was that said UNC wouldn't advance very far 
       if they didn't get any outside shooting was certainly right
       on the money.  Kudos!
    
    3. Georgetown in '82 was indeed strong, but let's not forget that
       Patrick Ewing, like Jordan, was only a frosh and very raw
       offensively.
    
    
    - ACC Chris