[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference 7.286::atarist

Title:Atari ST, TT, & Falcon
Notice:Please read note 1.0 and its replies before posting!
Moderator:FUNYET::ANDERSON
Created:Mon Apr 04 1988
Last Modified:Tue May 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1433
Total number of notes:10312

1413.0. "I wouldn't buy a FALCON today ..." by EDDF10::ECKEL (No sports.) Thu Oct 27 1994 08:57

    Hello, 
    
    *** WAIT! ***
    
    Chances are that there will be a much better and faster solution for
    Atari software than the FALCON. There are rumours that in short time 
    it will be possible to run TOS applications on a 68030/68040 Macintosh.
    
    Please don't ask me for details. I can't tell you more.
    
    Regards, 
    
      Peter.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1413.1...'MACMAGIC'?FAILTE::ROBSONBSun Nov 06 1994 15:3710
    
     There is a lot of discussion here on CIX in the UK and a news
    article in the current edition of 'Atari ST Review' about 'MACMAGIC'
    -the news article shows a 'mock-up' screen shot.
     Looks as though this could be a very interesting development,
    
    Brian
    
    
    
1413.2good news travel fastMUNSBE::BFALKENSTEINFri Nov 18 1994 12:039
    
    re. -2
    
    Peter, why the secret? It seems to be the busiest topic in the MausNet,
    and even the author of MacMagiC participates very actively in that
    discussion ;-)
    
    Bernd
    
1413.3MacMagiCEDDF10::ECKELNo sports.Mon Nov 21 1994 07:3316
    > Peter, why the secret?
    
    Volker had asked me not to say anything when he showed me Signum running
    on his Mac, so I won't ... :-)
    
    Since this week the results of Thomas' work will be presented in Hennef 
    near Bonn (Germany) and there indeed is a lot of discussion about the
    subject in MausNet, there is no reason anymore to keep the silence.
    
    What can I say - Yes, it works. Only in black and white for the time
    being, but it works - and ST applications on the Mac run faster than 
    native Mac programs. 
    
    Regards, 
    
      Peter.
1413.4'MagicMac' on show at London Atari showFAILTE::ROBSONBTue Dec 13 1994 22:1210
    
    'MagicMac' (apparantly renamed from 'MacMagic', some say to minimise
    association with a certain multi-national fast food chain :-) was
    on show and demonstrated at the London Atari show last weekend, and
    has been very well received as I understand it, with advance orders
    being placed.
     This product will be very successfull IMHO.
    
    Brian
    
1413.5MagicMAC FAQ FAILTE::ROBSONBWed Dec 28 1994 22:267
    
     The reply following this is the current 'MagicMAC FAQ' and is
    quite long, but contains interesting questions and answers about
    'MagicMAC'.
    
     Brian
    
1413.6MagicMAC FAQ........FAILTE::ROBSONBWed Dec 28 1994 22:28482
    
    This FAQ was translated from German by Hendrik Mylius,
    neptune@galaxy.owl.de.
    ------------
    MagiCMac: Frequently asked questions                Date: 12. Dec 1994
    ======================================================================
    You find an updated version of the FAQ list (MMACEFAQ.TXT) in the
    public section of the ASH mailbox. (Phone 0049-6221-303671/German user
    interface, sorry)
    
    Further questions and other information can be posted to the ASH
    CompuServe account 100067.3712@COMPUSERVE.COM
    
    
    Contents
    --------
    General
    Printing
    File system and data exchange
    Hardware
    The Mac side
    Application compatibility
    List of tested Macs
    
    
    General
    -------
    Q: What is MagiCMac?
    A: MagiC is a preemptive multitasking operating system which was first
       developed for computers of the Atari-ST- and TT-series. It there
    became
       very widespread. It is highly compatible with most of the Atari
    software
       packages. MagiCMac is MagiC for Apple Macintosh computers.
    
    Q: Does MagiCMac include any hardware?
    A: No. MagiCMac is a pure software package.
    
    Q: Is it very difficult to install MagiCMac?
    A: No, not at all. MagiCMac comes on only one disk. After you have
    inserted
       the disk just double click the setup icon and the program does the
    rest.
    
    Q: Which computers work with MagiCMac?
    A: MagiCMac works with all Apple Macintosh computers with a 68030 or
    68040
       processor. For example, Quadra 700, PowerBook 150, Duo 270c,
    Performa 475
       or 630. You should have at least 4 MB RAM available. With this
       configuration you will only have 1.5 MB under MagiCMac. For
    convenient
       working we recommend 8 MB RAM.
    
    Q: Does MagiCMac work with Apple's PowerMacs?
    A: No, not with the version currently distributed. MagiCMac also does
    not run
       under the 68K-emulation of the PowerMac. As the 68K-emulation only
    emulates
       a 68020 processor without a PMMU and the PMMU is absolutely
    necessary to
       run MagiCMac. But, we are planning a special version for the PPC.
    
    Q: Which software packages can be used under MagiCMac?
    A: Generally speaking, it is very likely that any application which ran
    under
       MagiC on the Atari (and does not have any specific hardware
    accesses) will
       run under MagiCMac. For example, Signum!3, Papillon and Phoenix. A
    file
       (MMAC_PRG.TXT) listing all the software packages that work with
    MagiCMac
       can be downloaded from the public section of the ASH box.
    
    Q: How much RAM can be used under MagiCMac?
    A: MagiCMac itself has no limitation. The problem is that the Atari's
    I/O
       section lies at end of the 16-MB-range and this RAM section must not
    be
       overlapped by any application. But, this does not mean MagiCMac
    cannot be
       used with computers that are equipped with more than 16 MB RAM. For
       example, if your Macintosh has 48 MB RAM the upper 32 MB or the
    lower 16 MB
       can be used. This will be subject of changes in future versions of
       MagiCMac. So that in the end the whole memory can be used. There
    will be a
       division as on the Atari TT into ST- and TT-RAM .
    
    Q: Is the emulation fast enough for my software?
    A: MagiCMac is not an emulation. MagiCMac runs on exactly the type of
       processor it has been designed for. That is the reason why on the
    Performa
       630 software runs four times faster compared to TT-speed. If you
    consider
       that most of the TOS applications can be very well used with a
    68000/ 8 MHz
       processor, imagine what will happen if you run them with an 68040/
    33 MHz.
    
    Q: Which monitor settings work with MagiCMac?
    A: All known Macintosh resolutions are supported. The standard version
       supports 256 colours. With an additional driver 32.768 or even
    million
       colours can be displayed. In the 640x400 mode MagiCMac can be run in
    a mode
       which is different from the current Mac setting.
    
    Q: Which desktop is used under MagiCMac?
    A: The MagiCMac package includes Ease, a graphic user interface. The
    final
       version of MagiCMac (Version 1.0) will come with a modified version
    of Ease
       which will allow to eject disks with a newly built in function.
    
    Q: What about the second mouse button?
    A: Usually a Mac mouse has only one button. The second button can be
    simulated
       by simultaneously pressing the Cmd-key and the mouse-button. There
    are two-
       button-mice from third party suppliers which can be used with later
       versions of MagiCMac.
    
    Q: What about the function keys, the help key ...(e.g. PowerBooks)?
    A: Several keys, e.g. Help, Undo and function keys are simulated by
    pressing
       the Cmd-Key plus the respective other key. E. g., function key F1 is
       simulated by Cmd-1.
    
    Q: How can I eject floppy disks?
    A: In this version of MagiCMac you have to switch to the Apple menu
    (Cmd-W) on
       which you will find EJECT. You can also press Cmd-Shift-1 to eject a
    floppy
       disk.
    
    Q: How much does MagiCMac cost?
    A: 298,-- DM. Users who already have MagiC for the Atari pay only
    250,-- DM.
    
    Q: Where can I get MagiCMac?
    A: Directly from Application Systems Heidelberg, PO box 102646,
       D-69016 Heidelberg, Phone 49-6221-300002, Fax 49-6221-300389 or any
       software dealer. In the UK the distribution is done by System
    Solutions,
       Brandt Fernandes Ltd., 17-19 Blackwater Street, London SE22 8RS, Fax
    44-
       1816936948.
    
    Q: Is MagiCMac already available?
    A: At the moment ASH is shipping a preliminary version which is already
    very
       robust. An update to version 1.0 is already included. It will be
    shipped
       free of charge as soon as it is ready.
    
    Q: Is there a demo version of MagiCMac available?
    A: Yes, there is a demo version. Slightly modified it does allow
    printing or
       accessing external SCSI harddisks. You can test compatibility of
    your
       applications. The demo can be found in the ASH box and is updated
    from time
       to time. Currently it is all German.
    
    
    Printing
    --------
    Q: Can every application print from MagiCMac?
    A: Every application that uses BIOS for printing can also print from
    MagiCMac.
       If an application directly uses the Atari hardware printing is not
    possible.
    
    Q: Can I use my Centronics printer with MagiCMac?
    A: Yes. There are several options. The Macintosh is equipped with a
    fast
       serial interface which is able to send data at a speed of 56
    kilobaud. You
       can connect the printer and your Mac via serial port by a cable with
       integrated serial/parallel converter. The cable transforms the
    serial
       signal to a parallel one which is compatible with Centronics and
    therefore
       data can be sent at full speed to the printer. This procedure is
    faster
       than the direct use of the printer's built-in serial port because
    most of
       the printers only reach a speed of 19.200 baud. A cable like that
    costs
       about 100,-- DM. Another option which we consider more reasonable,
    is to
       use the software package Powerprint. This package includes more than
    1.000
       drivers for DOS printers and of course the cable mentioned above. It
    costs
       250,-- DM and is available through Application Systems. The
    advantage with
       PowerPrint is that you are able to print also from Mac applications.
    
    Q: Can I use an AppleTalk printer which only understands Quickdraw?
    A: No, not with the current version of MagiCMac. The reason is simple.
    As
       nobody has been able to connect a special Apple printer with an
    Atari
       computer there is no application that includes a driver for this
    purpose.
       But we think it will be only a matter of time until drivers will be
       available.
    
    
    File system and data exchange
    -----------------------------
    Q: How are files stored under MagiCMac?
    A: Files are stored as usual on your Mac harddisk. We recommend to
    create
       a subdirectory and assign it in the MagiCMac parameters for example
    as
       drive 'C:`. You can very easily exchange data with Mac applications.
    For
       example, scan a picture using a Mac application, store the file in
    the
       folder you chose as Drive C: and switch to MagiCMac. Now you can
    open the
       file in Papillon and edit it. Also there is the possibility to use
    cut,
       copy and paste from the MagiCMac clipboard to the Mac clipboard and
    the
       other way round. This does work for text only at the moment.
    
    Q: How can I use my Atari data on the Mac?
    A: Together with Apple's new system software comes the utility PC
    Exchange.
       Using it the Mac can read PC-formatted disks which can also be read
    by the
       Atari. If you are not sure whether the disk is PC-formatted or not
    you
       should format it on your Mac (Format: DOS 1.4 MB or Format: DOS 720
    KB). If
       you insert a DOS disk without having PC Exchange installed your Mac
    will
       ask you if you would like to have the disk formatted. If you insert
    a disk
       under an active MagiCMac you can can read it. Because PC  Exchange
    is not
       necessary to read a DOS disk once MagiCMac has taken control over
    the disk
       drive. Problems with reading a disk may occur with 720 KB disks that
    were
       formatted under an older TOS and also with exotic formats (e.g. 10
    sectors,
       more than 80 tracks). In those cases the data has to be copied onto
    a PC
       formatted disk. Most of the software packages are distributed on PC
       compatible disks. For example, Signum!Drei can be installed directly
    from
       the original disks.
    
    Q: What about SCSI devices?
    A: SCSI harddisks can be connected directly to the SCSI-interface of
    the Mac.
       If the harddisk is formatted in a AHDI-compatible mode it cannot be
       addressed by the Mac. But MagiCMac detects the device and assigns it
    to the
       next free drive. You can instantly use the harddisk under MagiCMac
    without
       any further adjustment.
    
    Q: Am I able to make a network access?
    A: A computer that is connected via AppleTalk appears as a directory
    under
       MagiCMac and can easily be assigned to a partition. Another computer
    can be
       addressed as drive G: from MagiCMac or any application running under
       MagiCMac.
    
    Q: And what about filesharing?
    A: At the moment filesharing is not possible because the system calls
    are not
       implemented. Filesharing may be implemented in future versions.
    
    Q: Can I use a CD-ROM drive?
    A: Yes, you can. Under MagiCMac the CD-ROM drive is a subdirectory. You
    only
       have to assign it to a drive and access it as usual.
    
    Q: Can I use an external SCSI-CD-ROM drive in a chain with an Atari
       harddisk?
    A: Yes, devices like that can addressed from the Mac and MagiCMac
    without any
       special adjustment (of course, you need a CD-ROM driver for the
    Mac).
    
    Q: Do I have to install a special driver software for MagiCMac to use
       CD-ROMs?
    A: No. You can read CD-ROMs directly using the Mac operating system and
    its
       drivers.
    
    Q: What about ARA?
    A: ARA stands for Apple Remote Access and is used to contact another
    Mac via
       modem and access its harddisk. You can use ARA under MagiCMac. The
    remote
       Mac can be connected via ARA and appears as a directory. You just
    have to
       assign it to a drive and you have full access.
    
    Hardware
    --------
    Q: What kinds of monitors work with a Mac?
    A: You can connect any VGA monitor to the Mac. You just need a special
       connector for about 50,-- DM.
    
    Q: What about the DMA interface and the ROM port?
    A: Macintosh computers are not equipped with a DMA interface or a ROM
    port.
       Therefore you cannot use an application which needs the DMA
    interface or
       ROM port for a protection key (dongle). The Atari laser printer
    cannot be
       used with the Mac. Several companies intend to develop a card for
    the Mac
       which will allow DMA and Midi.
    
    Q: What about Midi?
    A: The midi interface is optional. At the moment it is not supported
       by MagiCMac.
    
    Q: Is there a two-button mouse for the Mac available?
    A: Yes, there is. MagiCMac will support at least one type of
       two-button mouse.
    
    
    The Mac side
    ------------
    Q: Do I need any extensions or control panels?
    A: No. MagiCMac is 100% clean. No additional files - neither system
    files nor
       control panels - are needed
    
    Q: What does MacOS do when MagiCMac is active?
    A: For MacOS MagiCMac is just another application. MagiCMac runs
    parallel with
       the Finder or any active application. You can switch from MagiCMac
    to
       another application and back at any time.
    
    Q: Can I exchange data via clipboard?
    A: With the current version you can cut pieces of text from MagiCMac
       applications and paste them into Mac applications and vice versa.
    
    Q: Which Version of MacOS do I need to run MagiCMac?
    A: MagiCMac runs under System 7.x (also 7.5).
    
    Q: Can I use the Mac's virtual memory?
    A: Virtual memory can be active. But MagiCMac can only address the
    built-in
       memory. Anyway, when switching from MagiCMac to Mac or vice versa
    parts of
       the applications running may be moved into virtual memory.
    
    Q: Can I use RAM Doubler?
    A: RAM Doubler is a very efficient memory administration and can be
    used on
       the Mac side. But as mentioned before MagiCMac is only able to
    address
       physical (built-in) memory
    
    Q: Is MagiCMac already able to use the FPU?
    A: Yes, if the FPU is a real coprocessor 68881 or 68882. Soft-FPU does
    not
       work with MagiCMac. The integrated FPU of the 68040 cannot be used
    with the
       current version of MagiCMac.
    
    
    Application compatibility
    -------------------------
    Q: Does NVDI run under MagiCMac?
    A: NVDI has to be adjusted to MagiCMac then it will run under MagiCMac.
    
    Q: Which fonts will be supported?
    A: All the fonts that NVDI supported on the Atari, including TrueType
    fonts.
       Postscript is currently not supported. A special MagiCMac version of
    NVDI
       will allow to use those TrueType which are already installed under
    MacOS.
    
    Q: Does Gemini run with MagiCMac?
    A: Simple Answer. Gemini runs under MagiCMac.
    
    Q: Does Signum!2 run with MagiCMac?
    A: This is the question we hear more frequently than any other. And
    much to
       everybody's surprise the answer is : Yes, it does run. Because under
       MagiCMac there is a special 640x400 monochrome mode which allows to
    run
       even older applications. If you want to print from Signum!2 you have
    to
       redirect the output to a file (with the tool PREMUL) which you later
    drag
       onto the printer.
    
    Q: Can I use Kobold under MagiCMac?
    A: You can use Kobold in the fast Kobold-mode with an external
    AHDI-formatted
       harddisks (e.g. SCSI harddisks). You can also use it on the Mac's
    drive but
       just in the GEMDOS mode. You can also use applications like Semprini
       (harddisk optimizer) or disk monitors.
    
    Q: Does Calamus run under MagiCMac?
    A: Yes, it does. And the speed is astonishing.
    
    Q: Can MagiCMac handle long file names?
    A: Yes, it can. To display it on the MagiCMac desktop they are cut to
    12
       letters. MagiCMac has a modified file system which allows extended
    file
       names.
    
    
    The following Macintosh computers have been tested with MagiCMac:
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Apple Workgroup Server 95
    Quadra 950, 700, 840
    Performa 475, 460, 630
    PowerBook 145B, 150, 210, 270C, 280C
    Mac II fx
    
    
    
    Compatibility under MagiCMac.                           As of: 15.
    December 94
    =============================
    
    Fully working programmes (A-Z)
    ------------------------------
    ASH-Utilities
    CAT, Calamus SL (Sommer 1994), Connect
    Ease 3.5, Everest
    Fred
    Kobold
    LHARC
    McCoy, Megamax Modula 2, Morpher 1.0
    Papyrus, Papillon 2.2, Phoenix 3.5, Postfix 1.1, Pure C (Debugger has
    some
    problems on 040-Macs, will be fixed with a patch)
    QED
    Script 2, Signum!3, ST Online 4.1 (Datex J), ST-ZIP
    Tempus Word (angepa_te Version), Twist, Twilight (fixed version)
    XControl (some CPX-modules work, others don't)
    WinCom
    
    Fully working, slight limitations
    ---------------------------------
    Signum!2 (640x400 monochrome, printing with PREMUL and printerfile).
    
    Tested (no problems)
    ---------------------------------
    1st BASE (some problems in ACC-mode, will be fixed)
    DA Layout (single-mode), DA Picture, DA Vektor (2.1)
    Gemini
    Harlekin
    Karma, Kandinsky, Kodak-Photo-CD-Software
    XEdit
    
    Not yet working
    ---------------
    Omikron Basic
    GfA-Basic (and many programes compiled with it)
    Pure Pascal (will be fixed)
    Pure Profiler (doesn't work, requires MFP-Timer A)
    ----------
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Brian
    
1413.7PRNSYS::LOMICKAJJeffrey A. LomickaSat Jan 14 1995 04:534
Cool.  A little expensive, but it would be nice to have Pagestream back!

I wonder if ithe price will come down. 200DM is a lot of George
Washingtons! 
1413.8It is *not* expensiveEDDF10::ECKELNo sports.Mon Jan 16 1995 13:5123
    Hello Jeff, 
    
    > Cool.  A little expensive, but it would be nice to have Pagestream
    > back!
    
    Expensive?
    
    I don't think that you can call 200 DM, which is about 130 US$,
    expensive, considering that what you buy is an operating system,
    considering that Thomas spent several months of full-time working on
    developing the software on his own risk and last considering that he
    has to face the risk of not selling large numbers of this software. I
    do not consider 300 DM, which is the correct price for MagicMac, a
    large amount of money, especially if I look at the prices for ST
    software running under MagicMac and the equivalent packages for the
    native Mac system, taking into account that the ST software under
    MagicMac runs significantly faster than the Mac software, and that
    MagicMac provides real, pre-emptive multitasking, which System 7.5
    cannot provide.
    
    Regards, 
    
      Peter. 
1413.9MagicMac demo available...FAILTE::ROBSONBTue Jan 17 1995 22:3511
    
     There is a demo of MagicMac available, which as far as I
    understand it, is fully operational but runs only approx.
    10 minutes. I'll update on it's location if I find if it's
    available via. ftp. 
     There are also 'GemBench' performance figures available
    which I believe were obtained while running the demo,
    I'll post these too.
    
    Brian
    
1413.10Please see 1421.0FAILTE::ROBSONBSun Feb 12 1995 15:066
    
     I thought perhaps this would be a good opportunity to start a
    specific 'MagicMac' topic, and have included the ftp location of
    the demo in note number 1421.0
    
    Brian
1413.11PRNSYS::LOMICKAJJeffrey A. LomickaMon Feb 27 1995 16:102
I did my math backwards, and thought 200DM was more like US$350!  My
mistake. Somewhere around $150 should be quite reasonable.