Conference 7.286::atarist

    I use (and like) the MWC (Mark Williams C) compiler, although I have not
    used anything else on the ST so I can't realy make a comparison.
    MWC gives you access to all of "GEM" and to the MIDI ports as probably
    do most languages.
    
    If you want to stick with Basic you may want to look at GFA basic.
    It gives you both an interpretter and a (optional) compiler. My
    understanding is that GFA makes it easy to get a GEM (actualy VDI/AES
    if your talking about windows, menus, etc..) program written and
    working comparativly quick.
    
    If you are looking for an inexpensive (and good) way of getting
    into C the Sozobon C compiler is supposed to be pretty good and
    complete. Though I'm not sure how complete the "GEM" routines are
    at this point (that is the GEMFAST library).
    
    	Ray

I would say use the language with which you are most accustomed to, which in 
your case Dan is probably Pascal (I sit across the hall from him  :).  I have
Personal PAscal V2 from OSS/ICD but haven't programmed my ST in a year so I
don't know if I should recommend it.  I never programmed any GEM/VDI/AES/etc
calls at all.  

Chad

re. .1 and .2,

	Thanks for the input so far.  One thing I should have mentioned is
that I'd like to develop applications that have fast execution times.  Just
how fast is MWC vs. GFA-BASIC vs. Personal PASCAL?


Dan

Laser C has really fast execution times, and is a decent compiler.

Mark Williams C is a cut above Alcyon C in overall quality (the
developer's kit stuff) and has better GEM documentation.

Regarding COMPILE time, which translates into faster program
development, there are faster compilers around than Mark Williams C,
but I've never tried them.  I understand there's a real fast one
available in Europe based on the Borland's LightSpeed C technology. MWC
is, around here anyway, "standard" that everything else is compared to.

The real win for Mark Williams C is not the compiler itself, but that
as part of the same package, you get a very good unix-like command
shell with a sophisticated command file language, and a bunch of
Unix-like utilities to go with it (cat, make, diff, od (octal dump),
egrep, etc.)  It even does I/O redirection and simulates pipes.  It
also comes wtih a machine-level symbolic debugger, object librarian, a
real fancy RAM disk utility (as source), and extensive documentation on
the Atari's software interfaces.  You also get source to an ancient
version of Microemacs, but you would be better off uploading 3.9nJ and
ERROR.CMD from my area.

For extra cost, you get a source level debugger, which actually works
if you have a lot of memory (you do) and you are paitent (the user
interface is goofy).

Sozobon C generates code that is similar in size to Mark Williams.  The
GEMFAST library actually works, as I have a version of VIEWFILE that
works now, thanks to Nigel Haslock.  The LinaA support is low, and for
any practical purpose there is no floating point in Sozobon.  If you
already have, or obtain, some sort of command shell and text editor
(like microemacs or SEDT), and if you don't need a debugger, you might
be able to start out with Sozobon and see if it meets your needs.

    Hi,
    
    	I bought Mark William's C about a month ago.  I've been very
    impressed with it.  Like the others have said, it comes with LOTS
    of development stuff.
    
    	I was mostly impressed with the resource editor.  It allows
    you do design GEM screens (menu's,icons, etc.) with a utility.
    The icon editor allows you to edit your icons down to the bit level.        
    You then compile the resources down to a level that interfaces
    to with your program...             
    
    	It's definitely the C I'm staying with...
    
    _John_
    

    
    
    I am also a midi-musician rather than a programmer, however I did
    do some baic programming some time back. I have therefore opted
    for GFA basic V2 for myc chosen mucking about language. It seems
    to work quite well. I have written a sysex (midiots will understand
    this) dump catcher, which never lost a byte, once I optimised the
    size of the loops and compiled the code. I have written a number
    of accounting programs also, all without a single problem caused
    by the GFA. 
    
    I did have a look at learning C, but for what I wanted to do and
    at my time of life (old dog new tricks etc...)
    
    				    Paul.	

    	There's an article in the latest issue of Current Notes that
    compares the different languages. Compiled GFA Basic compares quite
    nicely to the better C language implimentations.  I'd get GFA v.
    2.0 and it's compiler right now, and 3.0 and it's compiler only
    when the 3.0 compiler hits the market and gets a good review.
    	- Chris

I forgot about the resource editor.  The Mark Willimas resource editor
is MUCH better than their debugger.  The Debugger is a port of their
Let's C CSD product for clones, but the resource editor is all native ST GEM.

(Perhaps I'll cover the resource editor and using resource files in
another GEM class for A.B.A.C.U.S.)

	Thanks for all the replies.  I probably won't be making a purchase
	decision for a while so I'll start looking at Sozobon C when I get
	my Mega and I'll do more research on GFA, MWC, and the others.

	Dan

    Bear in mind that there is also something called 'MIDI BASIC'... it's a
    BASIC dialect with lots of built-in MIDI support. May be worth looking
    into.
    				- HBM
    

re. .11 

>    Bear in mind that there is also something called 'MIDI BASIC'... it's a
>    BASIC dialect with lots of built-in MIDI support. May be worth looking
>    into.
 
	Really?  Do you know who makes it?

    Sorry, not off the top of my head... I'll check START.
    				- HBM

    	The latest issue of ST Informer (my favorite ST publication)
    has an article on which language to use for development.  The new breed
    of Basics (expecially GFA) compares very favorably to the varients
    of C.  - Chris       is there an echo in here?