Conference napalm::guitar

Hmmm.

Hey Rick C.  do you wanna share bass duties?

I can probably play a little, but due to the tendinitis,
how much I can play is questionable.

Will this just be jamming or some "real" tunes?

-T

    Hey now,
    
    	That sounds like a workable format. Is it too late for me
    to change my mind and participate?
    
    	Did you say no keys on purpose? 
    
    							/Bill
    

    
    
    I should have made the luncheon to say this but....
    
       >Have a rhythm section (bass, drums) and get people up 2 at a time,
       > to A/B different rigs. Let them play for 15 minutes (Plus or minus)
       > then get another 2 up. Try to be considerate! Maybe do some of one
       > style for a while before changing?
    
    I can't help but think that the focus will shift away from the tone of
    the rig to the ability of the players, and that might stop a lot of
    players from participating.   Especially when everyone in the audience
    is a guitar player!   For example, if Buck and Larry did a 15 minute
    "set" who would want to "go on" after that?

     
    IMHO, of course.
    
    Kevin

    
    
    
     
    
    
    
    

    Tom, you're welcome to share bass duties.  Especially since I might
    have to make a quick getaway; my wife is due on the 14th!
    
    /rick_who'll_have_one_ear_waiting_for_a_phone_call

    I share Kevin's concerns, and some others as well.  Like not turning
    this into another free-for-all volume jam.  I'd like to see some if not
    all of the following happening:
    
      - someone gets up and demos some tones from their rig, without
        jamming with the rhythm section
    
      - different people take turns trying out the same rig
    
      - compare two rigs side by side, e.g. a plexi Marshall and an MP1
    
      - NOBODY feels pressured, or embarassed, or po'd
    
      - EVERYBODY gets to check out some cool gear, hear some tones, throw
        back a few brews, shoot the sh*t and basically have a good time.
    
    How we get there is up to us
    
    /rick

    Actually,. Kevin's right.
    
    Having a limit of two players at a time elimiantes (hopefully) the
    emergence of a volume war, which is important to me. But it doesn't
    provide for one of the other nice features we could have at an event
    like this. That being the opportunity to "plug and play" with
    everybodys rigs. Can we somehow provide for an opportunity for
    me to ,.. like,.. Oh I don't know. I envision letting everyone
    demo their rig and then if I fall in love with something I'd like
    to be able to (after patiently aiting my turn in line) plug into
    whatever it is I'm curious about. This has to be handled in a way
    that we don't get a volume war going ther either. Hell,. I can
    go right around the corner to Daddys if I want  to hear some kid
    play chromatic costic metallic blues leads from hell that won't
    stop and won't turn down for me to try out whatever I'm into.
    
    
    The trouble with the strictly jam oriented approach is that there is
    probably someone out there with a nice plexi or Vibor or whatever that
    would be really sweet to hear,.. but he aint gonna show up because
    maybe his chops aint the greatest and he actually has to "go on stage"
    and improvise and jam with people hes never played with and try to
    cound good after Buck finished his Steve Vai impersonations or whatever
    else "intimidating" there is to feel. The jam only switches the focus
    from the tone fo the rig to the ability of a person to perform. We
    don't really need that pressure,.. especially trying to perform for
    an audeince full of guitar players (yikes! :-).
    
    I guess I stil don't know what to make of this
    
    							/Bill
    

    Personally, I'm more interested in hearing amps for what they're worth
    (like chunking a few chords, or diddling a tad with a lead patch) than
    getting up and trying to wax off something with a band.  I donno, just
    my impression.
    
    Don't expect a jam tune from me.  My "15 minutes" will probably
    encompass me demonstrating a 5150 rhythm sound, a 2500 rhythm sound,
    and a lead sound on both, with the remaining time set aside for anyone
    who wants to plug in.

    
    I agree with Larry's reply.  That sounds really good.  Check out
    the different sounds and then play some tunes at a reasonable
    volume without drums.
    
    Heck, we could even play clean for a few !?!?!
    
    Tom
    

      
    
      I've entered the date in my organizer. If all works out schedule
    wise I plan to make it to this event. I agree with most of the the above.
    Did anyone invite Yngwie? He's playing a club in Syracuse on Tuesday,
    May 5. I'll see if he wants to come to ToneWar '92. He'll have to go on
    last so that no one is intimidated!
    
      Hopefully we can make this a good time. No doubt we have a *WIDE*
    range of equipment and styles to represent here!
    
    							-B()()M-
    							

    I'd like to come, because it does seem like a great opportunity to
    check out different gear and sounds. I'd favor keeping things as
    informal and low-key as possible. Basically a bring-your-own-amp party.
    If something else happens, well - it just happens.
    
    - Ram

    good discussion. I'm going to just sit back and let this discussion
    continue until we arrive at a concensus. It sounds like a lot of 
    people have different and equally valid ideas hiw this could
    work out.
    
    So, some possibilities:
    
    0. No Volume Wars!
    
    1. Have a couple rigs set up and let different people play thru them
       for a while to see how their guitars sound (sounds like a good
       idea).
    
    2. If you just want to do a demo (like Buck) that's cool. 
    
    I don't think drums will add much to the volume. In fact, not miking
    the drums might help keep volume in line!
    
    keep at it.

    
    
    >> So that's my suggestion - demo the equipment as long as folks are
    >>interested, when interest has visibly waned, finish up with a little
    >>fun jamming together, no drums,no major volume, no stage - just pull up
    >>a seat, plug in and have some fun.
    
    
    Yeah, sign me up for some of that!  Combined with what Buck
    said about using his 15 minutes to demo various sounds it would be
    great!
    
    Kevin
          

    People shouldn't get too hung up on the fact that we're thinking about
    having a bass and drums; it's just there if someone wants it.  There
    certainly is something to be said for hearing a guitar amp in the context
    of a rhythm section, and you may want that.  But if I bring my bass and
    don't get to use it all, I won't be disappointed.  I was just thinking
    of it as a kind of service.
    
    Ram's "bring-your-own-amp-party" sums up my feelings about what this
    event should be.

    
    
      Agreed - mark me down for an ACCESS demo - it deserves it! It looks
    like I'll bring the ACCESS/Intellifex/SP-1000 rack and the REXX 610S
    rig. Plug and play sound cool with me!
    
    							-B()()M-

    I think that coordinating a tone demonstration with a rhythm section
    may somehow effect the timeliness of the whole event, even though Dave
    set 15 min time limits.
    

Just a thought...  Since I can't come, it doesn't matter, but perhaps it
can work for me too...Since Brian K will be there with his Mp1...

My favorite patches (the M word) all came from someone else.  I sat Bulldawg 
Dandrea down and showed him how to edit the Mp1's patch bank, and off he
went.  I still use that patch !!  Maybe some of you can send patches to me via 
Brians Mp1/PC/Modem interface ??  I'd love it !!

FWIW - I like Bucks idea:

Plug into your rig(s), demo some of it's sounds (no one knows your rig better
than you right?), and ask people who might want to plug in and go for it a 
little...  After everyone has demoed their rigs, perhaps an optional 90 minute 
version of Stormy Monday or somethin'.  :)

jc (Who likes jammin' Stormy...)

    
    Another vote for what Larry, Buck and others have been saying.
    
    Guitar.. good.
    Bass.. good.
    Drums.. bad.
    
    Bob

    C'mon Dave,...You can't really believe that adding a drummer won't 
    increase the volume. It will. You must not have jammed with drummers that 
    much...
    
    On the same token, not having the drums doesn't guarantee the lack
    of a volume war. I wasn't there,.. but I'm pretty sure from all
    the (horror) stories I've been hearing about Volume WAR I that there
    was no drums there... maybe I'm mistaken on that???
    
    Anyway,.. the only thing that guarantees that there won't be a volume
    war is if people agree to not turn up. Trouble is, people wil say
    that they agree to this here in notes,.. then they'll show up
    and crank it up anyway. Then they'll say,. oh I'm not cranked up
    I'm only on 7 (or whatever) and "my amp goes all the way to 29"
    
    The essential question is "Is this a jam or is this a tone demo/
    evaluation/comparison shoppers paradise?"
    
    I was hoping for the latter.
    
    I love to jam too,.. send mail if interested in doing that anytime.
    
    The thing to do from my perspective is:
    
    	1) Start a note in here or something where we actually start
    	   assigning the 15 minute time slots. Each person who wants
    	   to can sign up for fifteen minutes to demo his rig. I'd actually
    	   opt for shorter (7-10) minute demos like Buck describes,.. but
    	   leave the "whoever wants to plug in can" for a later time...
    
    	2) Allocate at least one hour for a plug and play session. Somehow
    	   this has to be controlled. You want to allow someone to crank
    	   up a little during their plug and play,,,, so we have to have
    	   some kind of control on that like say,. .oh a three minute
    	   limit on each person doing a plug and play,.. during that time
    	   they can crank but only they. Other plug and players can still
    	   play (along?) quietly,.. but one guy "has the floor" so to
    	   speak. Some of the plug and play time could be signed up for
    	  ahead of time,. f'r instance I definitely would like to check out
    	  a "the Twin" and Bucks 5150,.. so I could sign up for that now.
    	  But we need slack here so people can sign up live on the spot
    	   for something that catches their fancy.
    
    	3) whatever time is left could be used for an "organized" jam or
    	   (god forbid! :-) a free for all jam. AN organized jam
    	   would be where people actually take turns soloing and 
    	  other people *PLAY CHORDS* (some of the horror stories around
    	  volume jam one are about people who refuse or just never play
    	   chords,.. yo doodz! we all like to solo too man!!) A free for
    	   all jam would be about the time I star rolling my video camera
    	   for Americas not so funniest home videos.
    
    
    In the immortal words of Hulk Hogan:
    
    
    
    	Anything else would be uncivilized
    
    	:-0
    
    							/Bill
    
    
    

        2495.*        

        Another possibility in the bass/drums area, might be backup jam tapes.
        I've used a set put out by Wolfman Music School in Arlington that has
        bass,keys,rhythm,percussion; 10 minutes in each key, a different blues
        style per key. Off the top of my head, at my level I've been working 
        in 'Slow Blues in G' most of the time though there's 'Chicago Blues in
        Eb','New Orleans in A',etc. I've a pair of small JBL monitors, the
        stands and mounting brackets, etc. This could provide a nice repeatable
        background to play against where the volume can be adjusted to each
        players' taste. If you've got 2 players going at once split the time 
        in half or thirds with the last third being the 2 players jamming.

        Lots of possibilities if you don't mind tapes.

        Ray

    ...or a drum machine. You could keep the machine level "sane", and if
    the guitars start to drown it out they'll lose time and fall apart.
    
    Edd

    Well, if any guitar players get really loud and obnoxious, I know a
    sure way to make them turn down...
    
    
    
    Stick a chart in front on them!  ];^>

    
    re.23 - i thought a *REAL* obnoxious guitar player would hurl all over
    the chart^8

    :-)
    
    I'll bring the charts %^)
    
    								/Bill
    
    PS My previous note sounds like I'm totally against having a drummer
       there,. which isn't true. But it is true that drummers are pretty
       loud,. .how many watts/bicep I'm not sure but,...
    
    	You could do a jam section with bass and drums and a couple
    players.... but I still would like to do the "comparison shopping"
    kind of gig first. This means as someone else has already pointed
    out that you need a drummmer who doesn't mind being "used" like
    this,.. it probably won't be a lot of fun for the drummer with
    the jam really being a revolving door... that drummer will be
    sitting on his hands for most of the night,,.. and then thrown into
    a continuous cycle of trying to relate to the different guitarists
    who are stepping up.
    
    	The drum machines and tapes sound like a pretty decent idea,...
    I just hate the chore of programming drum machines myself,. .but if
    someone else is into that it could work. At least then we don't have
    to worry about the drummer losing interest or flaking out on us....
    
    	Lets keep talking....
    
    								/Bill
    

A *really* obnoxious guitar player would turn up so loud that the sound 
pressure would blow the chart off the stand.  :)

jc (a really obnoxious dude :)

    Correction,...
    
    	I'll bring the granite tabloids down from the mountain with
    excerpts from Paganini's perpetual motion engraved. They will
    be mounted in the floor of the F&G directly in front of your
    mosquito,... um,. MP1 :-)
    
    	AND!
    
    	If you manage to blos that out of its mounting,.. then you 
    really can say with confidence that you are obnoxious! :-)
    
    	Do I under estimate you? :-) :-)
    
    								/Bill
    

    I don't understand what sounds like volume paranoia to me.  I've played
    with a "real" drummer for months now and have never had to turn any of
    my 50wt Marshalls up over 5.  These amps sound like poop unless you get 'em
    up over 4 anyway, no conflict there.  Have you guys played with *that*
    many drummers that have no control, or what?
    
    Maybe it's that I don't know the room.  I guess if it was real small it
    might be a problem, but if this is a reasonably large room I wouldn't
    think it would matter. I figure that a lot of the amps being demoed
    will have to be turned up to a volume that would probably coorespond
    closely to the level you'd have with drums anyway.
    
    The only time I've experienced "volume wars" were when:
    
    1) There were too many people playing at once, muddying the guitars
       frequency spectrum.
    2) You're playing with someone who's got a giant ego about their
       playing and doesn't care about you or anyone else.
    3) People can't hear themselves well, and don't follow the rule of not
       turning up once volumes are set.
    
    I don't think any of these will apply to this group, especially given
    the rules you guys already set up (short playing durations for each
    player and only 2 at once).
    
    The reason I feel strongly about this is because some amps sound great
    by themselves, but when you bring other instruments into the picture,
    they just don't hold up.  I was frustrated by a rig like this for a
    long time because I didn't demo it with other instruments.  Sounded
    great in my living room, sounded like dung at band rehearsal.
    
    Almost everyone I've talked to says that Marshalls sound too bright
    when heard by themselves, but in a band context they seem to blend
    really well, without getting lost like some amps.
    
    I know, "Shut up Greg, you're not even going to be there".
    
    Hey, I would like to hear some nice objective opinions from people, as
    a result of this, not "It sounded great", only to go buy something
    later on and find it's one of those amps that only sounds great by
    itself.
    
    Greg

>         -< Aren't we getting a little paranoid on this volume thing? >-

	I don't know about we,.. but as for me,.. yeah probably :-)
    
>
>    The only time I've experienced "volume wars" were when:
>    
>    1) There were too many people playing at once, muddying the guitars
>       frequency spectrum.
>    2) You're playing with someone who's got a giant ego about their
>       playing and doesn't care about you or anyone else.
>    3) People can't hear themselves well, and don't follow the rule of not
>       turning up once volumes are set.
>    
>    I don't think any of these will apply to this group, especially given
>    the rules you guys already set up (short playing durations for each
>    player and only 2 at once).

	Well Greg you're right,.. but my take is that these "rules"
	are being discussed,. and really aren't "set up" yet. If
	people can agree to some rules and obey them great! But
	rules were made to be broken,...and the ego thing can
	happen anytime anywhere,... so you really can't make a rule
	to prevent that unfortunately.
    

	I have no problem with hearing one or two amps cranked, in or
	out of the "band" context,... In fact, I fully expect and want
	everyone to crank up for their demos and stuff 
	***when its their turn***. I mean you are absolutely right that
	tone is partially a function of volume... that being a nonlinear
	thing I'm just hoping the players can stay linear.

>    I know, "Shut up Greg, you're not even going to be there".

	I won't touch it :-),.. its tempting,.. but I'll let it lie there
	:-)
    
>    Hey, I would like to hear some nice objective opinions from people, as
>    a result of this, not "It sounded great", only to go buy something
>    later on and find it's one of those amps that only sounds great by
>    itself.

	Forget it man,.. we're just gonna jam!

	:-0
	:-)

							/Bill

    I'll be glad to provide the drum machine and programming if ya decide
    to go that route. (HR-16)
    
    I'll need amplification though...
    
    Edd

    I agree with Larry on th KISS principle.  As someone who was also at
    VolumeJam I, I can attest the affair was total BS, but it didn't have
    to be that way.   

    Oh now damn. the only complaint I got is that on May 9, I'll be in
    Boom's neighborhood fishing on lake Oneida. You boys gonna have to do
    it without me, but I'll be listening to see if I can hear you off in
    the distance to see if in fact it does become a "volumejam".
    
    My suggestion to you guys is not to get too bogged down in trying to
    plan details. You have a couple of objectives, the main one being to
    not let it turn into a volume quest. So go with that and keep it and
    other objectives in mind. But like Ram (?) implied, make sure you have a
    party. Have some framework, but overall - go with the flow and let it
    happen. 
    
    Mark Jacques - it's up to you kid to make a good showing for "the
    Twin". I'd be interested in what some of you all think about it.
    
    "sakman"

    Once we have determined 'who' will be bringing 'what' amp, it might
    turn out that the 7-10 minute demos and the 'plug-and-play' time add up
    to, say, two hours.  Once everybody's satisfied, THEN schedule the same
    amps into a 4-pc. jam schedule to get the full effect of that amp in a
    live situation.
    
    Limit the jamming to two amps, each gets one solo while the other plays
    rhythm.
    
    The schedule is all-important though.  Gotta see how much time we need
    v.s. what is available.
    
    joe.

    
    	Well, havent been in here for a while...my system had a little
    trouble recognizing KDX200. First thing to catch my eye was the
    tone_wars (of course!) May 9th eh? Guess I wont be making it cause
    I'll be getting married that day! Probably be saying "I do" about
    the time you all light up the first 6550...or EL84. If anyone
    remembers, let a power chord sustain to a feedback 'fo me, okay?
    
    I wanted to bring an amplifier I've got with 6 12AX7 preamp stages in
    cascade. Standard Marshall tone circuit. It's small, just two 6L6s in
    the output. However...for the super high gain freaks it's got more than
    enough. "jc" here would probably like it. The feedbacks in Sataraini's
    "Flying in a blue dream" - that's what it sounds like. Would really
    like to have it checked out at the shootout. It's got 3 pre volumes
    and a master, BMT controls with a pull fat. 
    
    	So long ago now (it seems), I attended a NF&G jam and made some
    noise about the volume level there in a reply in MUSIC - which is
    probably archived somewhere. One solution might be if someone had
    an RS sound level meter. 3 ft in front of the amp and you turn up
    till you hit 100db and that's it for your master volume.
    
    	Joe

>    tone_wars (of course!) May 9th eh? Guess I wont be making it cause
>    I'll be getting married that day! Probably be saying "I do" about

Yeah ! 

Invite us to your wedding !  We'll bring the amps and guits!!
:)
jc

    
    What's up with the Tone Quest?  Are we still on for  
    
    >>Date: May 9, 1992
    >>    Time: Afternoon or evening. We weren't sure which would be better
    >>           for the most people.
    >>    Place: The Northboro Fish and Game Club.
    
    
    Kevin
    

    >    What's up with the Tone Quest?  Are we still on for
    >
    >    >>Date: May 9, 1992
    
    
    I'd like to know, as my travel plans for May are fast booking!!

    looks like all the talk about a volume war scared everyone off?!  8-|
    
    unfortunately I won't be able to make the 9th due to a prior commitment.
    
    /steve

    
      I've managed to book my next three weekends pretty solid, so I 
    guess I'm out of the picture. It looks like I'm back into gigging
    again because a band that's playing quite steadily wants me to replace
    one of their guitar players. I'm gonna check out a gig of theirs Friday
    night and practice with them on Sunday. 
      I really wanted to bring the ACCESS to this thing since it's so new
    and fairly uncommon. 
    
    							-B()()M-

    and I'm booked on the 9th to fly to Chicago to ride the new BATMAN
    suspended-looping coaster!!  Yow...

    
      RE: -.1   can you spell S C U M ?
    
    
    
    
        I knew as it got close that this was gonna be harder to get
    everybody together. The weather is getting nicer and people are
    scheduling up their weekends. It's tough getting this many musicians 
    together anyway!
    
        So if Buck's not there, Steve G's not there, Me neither,
    ...is anyone gonna do this?
    
    						-B()()M-

    MAybe an alternative date is what we need?

    If someone brings one of them "Matchless" amps, I'll be there.
    

    I've been in crisis mode and don't see things easing up until the end
    of May, hence I haven't had time to be in here much. If somebody else
    wants to run with this ball, it's OK with me. I would be happy with
    another date.
    
    - Dave

    How about July 4th :-)

> Title:  Marshall's red glare?

(To the tune of our national anthem)

The tubes bursting in air,
Gave truth to the net
that our racks were still there...


(sorry)
:)



  

>The tubes bursting in air,
>Gave truth to the net
>that our racks were still there...
    
    [finish the song...]
    
 Oh say does that mosquito sound
 come from that MP-1?
 Shut it off, I've got a headache
 Lets return to my stack...

That was pretty MIDIocre Buck.

jc (With a freshly stolen transconference inyourendo)

:)