Conference napalm::guitar

re. 7 thanks. Must be December.

BTW, in the UK "Slash" is a slang word for "urinate". (Thought you might like
to know that).

>BTW, in the UK "Slash" is a slang word for "urinate". (Thought you might like
>to know that).

    Hey, Slash is an EXCELLENT blues/rock guitarist IMHO.  Much rather
    listen to his solos over Slowhand ANY day o the week!

    Somehow, I knew Buck's knee would jerk on that one ...  8^)

    geez.... I didn't know this guy was a blues player.....
    

    Not strictly a blues player, but a blues-based rock player for sure.  I
    also enjoy Slash's guitar work a lot.  He puts a lot of emotion into
    it!
    
    Greg

    Slash falls into the category of players like Joe Perry of Aerosmith.
    Joe had the nickname of "Sloppy Joe" for years (maybe he still does?!?).
    Anywho, Perry plays with a lot of emotion, and has came up with some 
    great (catchy) guitar riffs in his time.  Sure, his technique is sloppy, 
    but it is moreso the overall effect of his playing (which has undoubtedly 
    left a solid mark in the rock music scene) which works for him and his
    band.
    
    Slash primarily plays pentatonic-based riffs, varying to dorian and
    harmonic minor scales when the harmony allows.  I credit Slash for
    bringing back the 'Blues Scales played on a Les Paul blaring through a
    Marshall Stack' sound back into 'acceptablity' in the 90s.  His work on
    the latest GnR releases showcases a broader guitar vocabulary and range
    of tones than on their 1st primarily-hard-rock release.  Also, his
    playing on Lenny Kravitz' last lp and Michael Jackon's new lp shows he
    can play well in formats other than the realm of GnR.  I'm interested
    to see how he develops with time as a player (God, he's still only
    23...he has a long way to go).
                                                                    
                                  

>BTW, in the UK "Slash" is a slang word for "urinate". (Thought you might like
>to know that).

Slash grew up in England, so he was probably quite aware of it!

alan

	Buck, which song on the Lenny Kravitz cd (Mama Said?) does Slash
	play on?  

    Don't have the CD perse, but I knoew for sure he plays on Mama Said...
    but was lead to believe in a Kravitz interview that Slash played on 
    more than one single.
    
    ???

    
    	Do you mean the "Mama Said" song itself?  If so, that is a great 
    	Sly Stone Tone wah sound.  Wish I could do it!  I also think 
    	Slash is better than Slowhand...
    
    
    
    
    	NOT!
    
    	8^)  Picking on Buck too.

    Re: meaning of Slash in the UK
    
    Maybe that's why he did that on the plane en route to Phoenix a 
    while back.
    
    Mike

    >Re: meaning of Slash in the UK
    >
    >Maybe that's why he did that on the plane en route to Phoenix a 
    >while back.
    
    Err...slight nit...it was GnR rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin who was
    too impatient to wait for the men's room on the flight to Phoenix!
    
    8^)

re: Lenny Kravitz

Slash plays guitar on "Always On The Run".

alan

>    Err...slight nit...it was GnR rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin who was
>    too impatient to wait for the men's room on the flight to Phoenix!

    Was this on a scheduled commercial flight or a charter? Inquiring minds
    want to know!

    :\

    It's a rathole, but yes, it was a scheduled commercial flight.  He was
    arrested as soon as it touched down.  There has been some conjecture
    that it was a publicity stunt.  According to an interview with someone
    else in the band in Rolling Stone, they ribbed him pretty hard about
    that for a long time, calling him "Whizzy" and such.
    
    Greg

    RE: Slash? A "blues/rock" guitarist? What...  an EXCELLENT blues/rock
        guitarist?
    
    	Oh Buck...  pllllllease!
    
    
    		Fred (who can't agree with this one)
    
    
    P.S. I bet SRV would be rolling in his grave on this one!!!

    Not to mention the fact that he was pretty immature and obnoxious
    before he whizzed in the aisle.  He was assigned a non-smoking seat and
    then lit up.  When he was told to extinguish it, he asked for a smoking
    seat.  That section was full so he continued to disobey federal laws.
    
    Then he whizzed in the aisle...
    
    Mike

    He whizzed in the kitchen, not the aisle, like that matters.
    
    C'mon, cut the guy some slack!  EVERYONE'S used the kitchen on one of
    those planes from time to time.  I mean, who can wait for those rude
    f*ckers to get out of the bathroom anyway?
    
    ;^)

    Sorry Fred Ab...I guess we disagree

    re: .28
    	Welcome to AMERICA where it's cool to disagree. It's just one more
    thing that makes the world go round Bill!   :)
    
    
    	Rock on,
    		Fred (who thinks Slash is a GREAT role model for the young 
    			kids of today...
    
    
     			NOT! )			

    I just think it's oh-so fashionable to hate GnR these days...that's
    what I see.

>    I just think it's oh-so fashionable to hate GnR these days...that's
>    what I see.

	Hate G&R? I don't particularly hate them,but then again they don't
populate my music collection. :^) Theory wise I realize slash may be playing a
lot of Pentatonic blues scales,but from what I've heard of his playing I'd
hardly classify him Blues Rock. Seems to me he's just another Rock and 
Roller. Nothing wrong with that....
	As far as what's fashionable it seems to be easy to slam players
who you think are "over the hill". I have to admit I don't listen to 
"slowhand",but I do seem to remember he was the person who used Marshall's
(cranked)and Les Pauls in the 60's. 
	Social or public misbehavior has little to do with guitar,perhaps
it belongs in Soapbox?
	I see opinions as something that unless expressed with moderation
in notes can be misunderstood,and insulting to other noters,due to the medium.
	Besides who are we to say?????


						Rick

    >Theory wise I realize slash may be playing a lot of Pentatonic blues
    >scales,but from what I've heard of his playing I'd hardly classify him
    >Blues Rock.  Seems to me he's just another Rock and Roller.  Nothing
    >wrong with that....
    
    Interesting point.  Having had to learn enough of Slash's solos, I
    see a lot of the same patterns (licks?) used by Jeff Healey and SRV.
    Not that Slash and SRV sound even remotely in the same ballpark, but
    what is that fine line between being a blues-based player and just
    being a rock-and-roller?  Slash sites Jimi Page, Beck, Buddy Guy,
    and Joe Perry as influences...where would you say those players
    influence would put him?
    

    
    Sheesh, I go play golf for an afternoon and look what happens
    to my topic !!  You guys Slashed it apart and whizzed all
    over it !!
    
    Can this junk be moved to a GnR topic ??
    
    And did anyone try .0's suggestions?  I did over the weekend and
    found it extremely limiting.  But it sure did make playing scales
    virtually impossible.
    
    Gotta run - too much coffee - gotta find a sink,
    Tom
    

re Bill,
        
>    Interesting point.  Having had to learn enough of Slash's solos, I
>    see a lot of the same patterns (licks?) used by Jeff Healey and SRV.
>    Not that Slash and SRV sound even remotely in the same ballpark, but
>    what is that fine line between being a blues-based player and just
>    being a rock-and-roller?  Slash sites Jimi Page, Beck, Buddy Guy,
>    and Joe Perry as influences...where would you say those players
>    influence would put him?
 
	I agree it is a very fine line,however patterns and licks are not
the only substance to define musical style. I believe tone and sound have
an influence on it. If SRV played the same licks but with a Metallica tone
I'd be hard pressed to call it Blues Rock. Jeff Healey is a fine example of 
this fine line,with his first realease leaning more towards a blues sound and 
his second release sounding very rockish. 
	His influence's seem to have primarily a rock and roll nature 
except Buddy Guy. Beck has played in a few "Jazz Fusion" groups,but most of
what I've heard has a very rock and roll sound.....Jimi Page even
though blues influenced has primarily always sounded rock and roll to me.
I'm not familiar enough with Joe Perry to say one way or another.
Unfortunately when I think of Slash the first thing that comes to my mind is 
the G&R tune "Sweet Child of Mine"(sorry)and I'm sure that does him no justice
as a player.Perhaps you would like to enlighten me to some of his finer tunes?
Or even more of a benefit to the fellow noters is to define the mainstream
sounds,scales etc of musical styles? If for nothing more than to avoid the
"fuzzy" fine lines.... :^)

	Of course this just my opinion and probably considered of little
value in the music world or notes,but ask me if I really care?	Then again
I can talk about music and guitars all day long....Unfortunately I don't
get paid for it. :^)
        BTW Mick Goodrick has a new release out has anybody seen it?
    
   							Rick

    re .33
    SHADDUP! CAN'T YOU SEE WE'RE TRYING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION HERE! :)
    Hey, I tried to move this over to the general topic but I guess it just
    had too much momentum right here.

    Buck, I don't all this GnR stuff being directed at you but you seem to
    have taken up their defense. But from everything I read from NewsWeek to
    Rolling Stone, LIKING GnR seems to be what is fashionable.

    Let me go way out on a limB and offer some general comments that I CAN
    NO LONGER CONTAIN:

    Isn't discussing GnR and music theory together a lot like discussing
    automotive technology and Yugos?

    As far as I'm concerned, blues is an idiom which is not defined by
    scales and tones.
    
    If Slash or anyone else was the front-man (PERSON) for this band instead
    of that adorable little Axl Rose (you know, the *SINGER*), this band
    would probably be unknown.

    These guys are, as Al Haig (sic) said "good cannon fodder going to
    waste."

    They are the band I love to hate.

    Re: hating GnR
    
    That's hard to do since we don't know them, but their immaturity makes 
    it hard to appreciate them.

    
Ron.....


>    Isn't discussing GnR and music theory together a lot like discussing
>    automotive technology and Yugos?

	I guess it depends on your background,and what do you use as a reference
to understand and discuss music?  Theory seems to be a more universal language 
than say the Gaelic language.... If you use only your ear,how do I understand 
what you hear?

>    As far as I'm concerned, blues is an idiom which is not defined by
>    scales and tones.

	I don't really disagree...... ,but what is it defined by? If
it has any definition at all? scales,tones,sounds,emotion,feelings?....

    							Rick

    I think my previous remark about Slash's "Blues-based" apparoach was
    taken out of context.
    
    Let's take Angus Young for a second.  Now his playing is most
    definitely blues *based* (keyword)...often you can hear his Howlin Wolf
    influence in his playing (attack, phrasing, tone, etc. -- esp on his
    early work [see Ride On for example]).  He is more of a rock player
    than a blues player, but his roots in the blues are undeniable.
    
    This is what I was *trying* to say with Slash.  Not so much his choice
    of scales, but IMHO his approach to soloing is very much based in the
    blues (the music, and it's forefront players).  Not that he sounds like
    any of the past or present bonafide blues dudes (certainly he does
    not), but I can see where his approach is coming from.  I have heard
    Slash just playing alone, and it is indeed a string of classic, flowing
    blues riffs, with a slightly nastier tone than most.
                  
    fwiw...

    RE: Fred Abatelli
    
    Aren't you keeping your Peavey in top shape so Matt can play screaming
    Slush leads :^)
    
    Mike

    Only cause this has been moved to its own topic and greg says to talk
    it up will I add ... freakin' guns n roses suck and so does slash
    
    "sakman"

>freakin' guns n roses suck and so does slash
 
    I don't care much about their personal habits, but I really like their
    music.  I could do with a little less of the media hype, but I don't
    watch/hear/read that much media stuff anyway...
    
    I think Slash's lead tone is one of the best I've ever heard.
    
    Greg

(I posted this in the old version of MUSIC. I figure it might be appropriate
for the topic at hand.....)

Review: Guns and Roses 'Use Your Illusion I'
Subtitled: Why You Should By This Even If You Don't Like Heavy Metal

I'm posting this review in the MUSIC notesfile, as many readers here don't
follow the HEAVY_METAL notesfile. While this is a review of the latest 
Guns and Roses album, its also being written to try and convince some of
the non-metal fans to give this album a chance. Ignore the hype, ignore
the band's antics, ignore the sales figures - just listen to the music
as it stands on its own, and judge it in that context.

From my perspective, GnR has produced an incredible album, sure to be a
milestone in Rock and Roll. Its closest cousin would probably be the
Rolling Stone's "Exile On Main Street", but various hero's styles show up
throughout the album. This is basically Guns and Roses showing wearing
their influences on their sleeve - you hear lots of musical references to 
the best works of the Stones, Beatles, Aerosmith, and Eric Clapton.

(Before diving in here, I should mention that I'm just reviewing the 'Use Your
 Illusion I' album. I was not as overwhelmed with 'Use Your Illusion II',
 and will (maybe) save that for another day. This deals with just the first
 album.)

Musicians:
Axl Rose - vocals
Slash - lead guitar
Izzy Stradlin' - rhythm guitar
Dizzy Reed - keyboards
Duff McKagan - bass
Matt Sorum - drums
(There are other various musicians on the album also, but these are the basics)

Right Next Door To Hell (Stradlin'/Caltia/Rose)
	A decent rocker to start off the album, but nothing special. Sort of
	what I call the "basic Guns and Roses rocker". There are several of
	them on this album. None of them are bad, per se, its just they are
	nothing special, just album filler. Anyways, this is the first of
	them - nice catchy chorus, but nothing great.

Dust N' Bones (Stradlin'/McKagan/Slash)
	Ahhh... what I consider the real start to the album! This is a real
	nice mid-tempo rocker, sort of a shuffle, with Stradlin' throwing 
	his hat into the vocals ring. (He actually sings pretty well.) I 
	believe I read somewhere that this was written about a true story 
	of a Las Vegas murder.

Live And Let Die (Paul and Linda McCartney)
	A good cover, although I feel its a little unnecessary. They don't
	change the arrangement at all, its just basically a straight-forward
	cover with a little more (guitar) power to it.
	
Don't Cry (Stradlin'/Rose)
	My least favorite song from the album. I guess the released this as
	a single because it will get Top 40 radio play, but I don't think its
	its a very good representation of the album. The song sorta plods
	along. I suppose its ok, I'm just not thrilled with it.

Perfect Crime (Stradlin'/Slash/Rose)
	Back to your basic Guns and Roses rocker here. Good song, not great.
	Best part is a lead guitar break that just burns!

You Ain't The First (Stradlin')
	Ahhh... another great one! This one is an acoustic number, in waltz 
	time, featuring Stradlin' on lead vocals and Slash playing slide 
	dobro (!). Sort of a cross between the Stones "Faraway Eyes" and
	some of Zep's acoustic/folkish material. 

Bad Obsession (Stradlin'/Arkeen)
	A ROCKER!!!! Best described as The Georgia Satellites meets 
	Aerosmith. Slash playing some stinging slide guitar on this one!
	Lyrics double up as being both about a girl and drug addiction.
	Mike Monroe (formerly of Hanoi Rocks) plays some wicked harp on
	this cut also. Sample lyric:

		"I used to wasted, always tried to take it
		 Take it down into my vein
		 I called the doctor, he's just another
		 He said I'm sick in the brain"

	But it end on an (relatively) upbeat note:

		"I can't stop thinking about seeing you one more time
		 But I already left you and you're better off left behind"

	The production of this song is reminiscent of the Stones early-70s
	stuff - the way the horn sections double up the guitar lines is
	is right out of "Bitch" on 'Sticky Fingers'.

Back Off Bitch (Huge/Rose)
	Another of the typical Guns and Roses rockers. OK, but certainly
	nothing special here. This is one of the 3-4 tracks I usually
	skip when listening to the album.

Double Talkin' Jive (Stradlin')
	Another song sung by Stradlin'. Not really heavy enough to be a
	typical GnR rocker, its got a little more of a funky feel to it.
	Stradlin' also provides the records most interesting solo here,
	(nto the best, just more interesting) - sort of has an Eastern 
	influence to it. 

	The song also fades into a real nice real pretty classical/spanish
	guitar piece at the end.....

November Rain (Rose)
	.....which is the perfect introduction to this song. One of the
	albums masterpieces, and I'm sure its going be a classic rock 
	track in the future. Clocking in at 8:53, this is a remarkably
	tender and optimistic ballad by Rose. It starts with just a
	piano and string section, slowly adding in percussion and an
	orchestral arrangement (with a little Irish-like flute playing in
	the background). Rose's vocals are a little rough at first for
	the song, but I've since warmed up to them after a few listens.

		"And when your fears subside and shadows still remain
		 I know that you can love, when there's no one left to blame
		 So never mind the darkness, we still can find a way
		 Cause nothing lasts forever, even cold November rain"

	The song features some very soulful guitar playing from Slash, 
	reminescent of some of the "masters" like Beck or Clapton. Very
	lyrical, almost like the guitar itself were crying. 

	The song then switches gears a little (no, they don't crank it up!),
	and goes into a key change. The piano kicks in with the rhythm, and 
	then Slash adds on a repeating guitar coda that repeats until the
	end. All the while, you hear chanting in the background:

		Don't you think that you need somebody
		Don't you think that you need someone
		Everybody needs somebody
		You're not the only

	The song mostly invokes the spirit of "Layla", which the closest
	comparison to it (quite a compliment!), with a touch of "I Am The
	Walrus" to it (the chanting at the end). Its a stunningly beautiful
	piece of music, and worth the $12 price tag alone.
		
The Garden (Arkeen/James/Rose)
	More Beatles influence showing up here. Sort of a psychedlic trip
	into Drug Land, wtih some spacey slide playing from Slash that 
	seems right out of the George Harrison songbook. Alternates between
	an acoustic mood, and a little harder. Special guest vocal appearance
	by Alice Cooper fits in nicely here.

	Once again, another anti-drug song:

		You know you're all alone
		Your friends they aren't at home
		Everybody's gone to the garden

	And:

		Only poor boys take a chance
		On the garden's song and dance
		Feel her flowers as they wrap around
		Only smart boys do without

	BTW, West Arkeen plays acoustic guitar on this track (Izzy Stradlin')
	isn't on this one). I don't know who he is, but he co-wrote a couple
	of the better songs on the album.

Garden Of Eden (Slash/Rose)
	The best of the slash and burn rockers - this is like a freight train
	out of control and careening down a mountainside. One of the shortest
	songs on the record (2:36), Axl still manages to sing like 68 lines
	of lyrics! (Almost of all of which are totally incoherent.) Thank 
	God for lyric sheets:

		"Most organized religions make a mockery of humanity
		 Our governments are dangerous and out of control
		 The Garden Of Eden is just another graveyaerd
		 If they had someone to buy it, I'm sure they'd sell my soul"

Don't Damn Me (Slash/Lank/Rose)
Bad Apples (Slash/McKagan/Stradlin'/Rose)
	I put these two together, as I tend to lump them into the same
	category as "Back Off Bitch" and "Perfect Crime" - good rockers,
	but nothing to make them stand out over the others. 

Dead Horse (Rose)
	Starts off with Axl strumming an acoustic guitar and singing solo,
	then kicks into a great rock and roll romp. Lyrics bemoaning a
	relationship gone bad:

		"Sometimes I feel like I'm beating a dead horse
		 And I don't know why you'd be bringing me down
		 I'd like to think that our love's worth a tad more"

	Songs ends with a fade back into Rose singing alone again.

Coma (Slash/Rose)
	The highlight of the album, appropriately placed last as a 
	culmination to all that's come before. This song take all their
	disillusionment, along with their drug use, and encapsulates
	into one horrifying song. This song is bound to be a hard rock
	classic in the future. In the same ways that a song like "Kashmir"
	is majestic, then this song is equally full of dread and horror.

	Its basically a 10:00 excursion into a drug overdose, and a near-death
	experience. Told from three points of view, the narrative switches
	off from one to another.

	At the start of the song, Axl is singing (supposedly) from Slash's
	point of view - he's just shot up heroin, and is "floating away",
	wanting to leave the world behind him. 

	But then something goes wrong, he OD's, and is slipping farther and
	farther away. In the background, you hear the hero crying "help me"
	over and over again. In the meantime, over the music, you hear the
	sounds of the emergency room people trying to save his life (the
	heart monitor beeping away, the various doctors calling for pieces
	of equipment, etc)

	Suddenly, we cut to the second point-of-view - its Slash, now lying
	in a coma on the ER table:

		"Nothing's gonna bother me anymore
		 No one's gonna mess with my head no more
		 I can't understand what all this fighting for
		 But its so nice here down off the shore
		 I wish you could see this 'cause there's nothing to see
		 Its peaceful here and that's fine with me
		 Not like the world where I used to live
		 ..... I never really wanted to live."

	As the band comes thundering back in musically, we cut back to the 
	ER room, as we hear the doctor's trying desparately to save him,
	using shock (which you hear quite graphically). As Slash supposedly
	awakens within the story, he also bursts into a fiery solo in the
	music.

	The song ends with the third point of view, one of Slash's friend's
	(Axl) railing against him at how stupid he is for taking such
	chances, and how he had better clean up his act:

		"No you don't need no doctor
		 No one else can heal your soul"

		"It was no one's fault by your own"

		"There were always ample warnings
		 There were always ample signs
		 And you would have seen it coming
		 But we gave you too much time
		 And when you said that no one's listening 
		 Then why'd your best friend drop a dime"

	Overall, the song has well over 100 lines of lyrics to it. Its a
	chilling and sobering account for all to share in, and will hopefully
	maybe educate some of the kids who might think to emulate the band's
	former lifestyle, thinking it would be cool.


Well, that's the end of the album. There's over 76 minutes of music here,
and 16 songs. There's lots to digest - I've been listening to it fairly
constantly for about 3 weeks, and there's still more to take in. But overall,
its one of the greatest rock and roll albums to be released, ever. The band
has taken their influences and carved them into their own sound. Songs
range from heavy metal to country waltzes to soaring ballads to just plain
roadhouse rock and roll. Its just an amazing album for band that's so young
in their career (this is only their second full album!).

For those who aren't interested in the heavy metal side of GnR, I totally
understand. But I do ask that you borrow a copy from someone, or take the
chance and drop $12 on it, and listen to songs like "You Ain't The First",
"November Rain", "Dust N' Bones" and "The Garden". And check out "Coma"
while you've got it on - it'll make your skin crawl!!!!

alan

>the non-metal fans to give this album a chance. Ignore the hype, ignore
>the band's antics, ignore the sales figures - just listen to the music
    
    ...can we ignore the lyrics too? ;-)
    
    A [insert favorite music media] investment is a symbol of acceptance. 
    I don't agree with what they do, and from what I've heard on the radio,
    I'm not that impressed.
    
    Mike

    re -1

    I understand that you like the band, but your going way out on a limb
    with your statement "But overall, its one of the greatest rock and roll
    albums to be released, ever". This is pretty strong language. Hype?

    I don't dislike anything because it's heavy-metal or anything else. When
    I hear someone playing music, I listen. I'm not closed minded about
    different types of music. I've heard good and bad and -- most of all --
    mediocre music from every corner of the music world. I get very turned
    off by anyone that has some agenda other than making music. The term
    "posers" I think fits many rockers. Country music is overrun by people
    who are more entertainers than musicians. Not to take away from the
    Ricky Scaggs of the country scene. It's just a matter of focus. So
    making the music right isn't the primary thrust of an artist, I probably
    don't give them too much attention. I've heard heavy metal that's made
    my think "Yeah, THAT'S the way you do it". I've heard heavy metal that
    made me think "What a bunch of JERKS!" BTW, I never thought of GnR as
    heavy metal.

    I put most new age pretty low on the ladder of musical evolution because
    I don't think it does what music is supposed to do: stir the soul, tell
    a story without even using words, stimulate the emotions. As far as I
    can tell, New Age music is created to lull the listener to sleep. Safer
    than pills I suppose.

    My point is simply this: I don't dislike GnR because they play a style
    of music that not my cup of tea. It's all the bullshit that they build
    into it (that, it would seem, comes from their attitude toward life).
    I'm not put off by sloppiness, just bullshit.

re: .36 ( Mike Heiser )

> ...can we ignore the lyrics too? ;-)

Sure!  8^)

Some people have a problem with this band's lyrics (both specific words
used and the general text). I really don't - to me they are just expressing
*their* opinions and outlook on life. I can't always directly relate to it
(and at times I certainly disagree, particularly in the way they portray
women in their lives), but it doesn't "offend" me in any way. They have
their way of looking at things, I have mine - no problem.

BTW, you've gotta remember that just 25 years ago, Mick Jagger couldn't
sing "let's spend the night together" on TV. I think that the band's
(obscene) language use is just a reflection of the times. (How many times
on average do you hear an oscenity each day? For myself, its quite often.)

> A [insert favorite music media] investment is a symbol of acceptance. 

I never think of buying albums in those terms. IMO, I am not endorsing the
band's lifestyle, I do not even have to agree with what they're saying.
That's like saying if I buy and read the Communist Manifesto, then I
support Communism. It doesn't - its simply a medium for information, and 
its not anything beyond that.

re: .37 ( LEDS::BURATI )

> I understand that you like the band, but your going way out on a limb
> with your statement "But overall, its one of the greatest rock and roll
> albums to be released, ever". This is pretty strong language. 

Yes, it certainly is pretty strong language. And its not something I use
lightly. But I want it to be clear - I think this really IS one of the
best albums in rock history. Not just one of the best "heavy metal"
albums, or anything like that (I also don't think of GnR as a havy metal band, 
but that seems to the category thrust upon them), but one that can stand 
up against the Beatles' 'White Album' or The Stones 'Exile on Main Street' 
or LZ's 'Physical Graffitti'.

> I don't dislike anything because it's heavy-metal or anything else. When
> I hear someone playing music, I listen. I'm not closed minded about
> different types of music. 

Great! Then have you heard the entire album yet??? And what did you think??? 
(And if not, then how can you judge my remarks about how great it is?)

> My point is simply this: I don't dislike GnR because they play a style
> of music that not my cup of tea. It's all the bullshit that they build
> into it (that, it would seem, comes from their attitude toward life).
> I'm not put off by sloppiness, just bullshit.

Despite your long explanation, I guess I really don't understand what you're
trying to say - I feel like I've missed an important point here somewhere,
but I'm not sure I know what it is. 

Are you saying that you don't like GnR because of their lifestyle, and the 
things they say in magazines, and stuff you read about them in the press? 
That kind of "bullshit"? 

Because the music itself is not like that at all, if you take it in-and-of 
itself. I realize its sometimes hard to separate the musicians from the 
music, but in this case I specifically asked that this be done - give the 
band a fair chance, based on what every band *should* be judged by, their 
music!

alan

    I, for one, have a hard time seperating the music from the artist's or
    band's personality.  That's just me - I'm sure some folks are
    different.  That's always a possibility ...  8^)
    
    I loved `Appetite For Destruction' ... there wasn't a bad cut on it. 
    These guys had a `bad boy' image then, but that was OK.  Then all the
    hype about albums/no albums, Axl's dead/no he's not, blah blah blah. 
    It got old to me.  And, from what I've heard of the new albums (which
    is just the radio/MTV stuff), I don't care for the direction the band
    is heading now.  The `AFD' will still get regular air time at the
    Scary hut ...  8^)
    
    Now, back to this business of Slash.  Granted, he's got some good
    chops.  I just don't think he's anything to sacrafice a lamp for or
    anything.  He's a good player (not *GREAT*) that happens to be in a
    VERY popular band - which brings him a lot more praise from the media
    than he deserves.  Didn't say he didn't deserve *any* ... just not
    what he gets.  As far as him playing with Lenny Kravitz or Michael
    Jackson ... so ?  Steve Stevens, Eddie VanHalen, Jennifer Batten, all
    these folks merely decorate the cake - they didn't make or break the
    songs ... damn near *any* studio whiz could have gone in and done as
    well.  
    
    Blues ?  You can play the scales, and still not play the blues.  It's a
    feeling - I don't really hear Slash playing with the *type* of emotion
    that I would classify as the blues.  Blues based, but on the same scale
    as Jack Daniels on the rocks being ice based ...
    
    Besides - he's very ugly, and that's what *really* matters ...  8^)
    
    
    Scary  

    RE:  Alan's reply to LEDS::BURATI
    
    I have to agree...I feel in your reply, I missed the point you were
    trying to make about GnR.  Obvisouly, you do not car for them or their
    music, but from your reply, I was unable to get a good idea of just
    what it was.
    
    
    RE:  Scary (Pronounced food_processor)
    
    >As far as him playing with Lenny Kravitz or Michael Jackson ... so ? 
    >Steve Stevens, Eddie VanHalen, Jennifer Batten, all these folks merely
    >decorate the cake - they didn't make or break the songs ... damn near
    >*any* studio whiz could have gone in and done as well.  
    
    Sort of.  EVH did a LOT for "Beat It", even it was only the guitar solo.
    I think guitarists in modern pop have a lot more influence on the
    overall sound than most people give credit for.  But, I agree "Beat It"
    would probably still have been the mega-hit it was had they have let
    Steve Lukather play the solo (he already did the rhythm/fill work).
    
    
    >Blues ?  You can play the scales, and still not play the blues.  It's a
    >feeling - I don't really hear Slash playing with the *type* of emotion
    >that I would classify as the blues.  Blues based, but on the same scale
    >as Jack Daniels on the rocks being ice based ...
    
    Like I said...I have heard Slash just playing on his own, and he *is*
    capable of the tone and emotion that encompasses "real" (or as real as
    *you* would like it to be) blues.  Granted, a lot of the music his band
    plays does not warrant that type of playing, but that doesn't mean he
    doesn't possess it.  I think his soulful blues playing does shine
    through on a few cuts off of UYI I and II.

re .41
    
Lets see where were we?.....   

   > Let's take Angus Young for a second.  Now his playing is most
   > definitely blues *based* (keyword)...often you can hear his Howlin Wolf
   > influence in his playing (attack, phrasing, tone, etc. -- esp on his
   > early work [see Ride On for example]).  He is more of a rock player
   > than a blues player, but his roots in the blues are undeniable.

*	 I hear what you are saying........
 
   > This is what I was *trying* to say with Slash.  Not so much his choice
   > of scales, but IMHO his approach to soloing is very much based in the
   > blues (the music, and it's forefront players).  Not that he sounds like
   > any of the past or present bonafide blues dudes (certainly he does
   > not), but I can see where his approach is coming from.  I have heard
   > Slash just playing alone, and it is indeed a string of classic, flowing
   > blues riffs, with a slightly nastier tone than most.
                  
	So what your really saying is that Slash is a blues based player 
taken into consideration his phrasing and attack,and notes and if he was say 
playing with a Blues band he would hold his own? I don't have a problem with 
that.. therefore your statement primarily was for the player and not the 
environment he's in...?
 
	However due to the nature of the bands music(G&R)he's playin rock and 
roll. right?  I guess a simple "tone change" and style on the bands part 
might make this a little more audible to an unseasoned listener,but would not 
fit in the current context of the groups style of music.... the next time
I hear Slash on the radio I'll have to give him more of a listen....
 
	I guess I see this as the same as Neil Geraldo(Pat B's Husband)
playin blues or the guy from Bon Jovi.(Sambora?)Or even Gary Moore. It's
too bad there are so many talented players who don't get to play in styles
which are less acceptable to the general public. Then again I guess thats 
why I work at DEC.....:^)

							Rick
      

    >	I guess I see this as the same as Neil Geraldo(Pat B's Husband)
    >playin blues or the guy from Bon Jovi.(Sambora?)Or even Gary Moore. It's
    
    Exactly.  Say none of you ever heard Gary Moore's last album, but you
    HAD heard his (earlier) Corridors of Power album (which, BTW, is far
    more METAL than Slash will EVER play!!), and I told you Gary could play
    the blues.  You'd write me right off as either deaf or crazy (or both).
    
    I don't know much from Richie Sambora (the Bon Jovi dude), but Neil
    Geraldo really suprised me with that last Pat Benatar lp they
    released!!  I was so used to hearing him play songs like Heartbreaker
    and Hell is for Children...my ears weren't 'in tune' for the style he
    played!

    RE: -1
    
    Very good point.  I heard a tape of Richie Sambora just jamming around,
    and he was basically just doing some blues based stuff.  Tne guy I
    borrowed tne tape from is pretty close to the BonJovi crowd, and he
    told me that he likes basic old rock and roll and blues.  BonJovi's
    music isn't really representative of what he likes to do - GnR is
    probably similar.  But all the listening public hears is what's
    recorded.  Like, I heard that Zakk Wylde (Ozzy) is really fond of
    country/rock ... never would have guessed it ...
    
    Scary

    Gotta agree with ya about Gary Moore too.  `Still Got The Blues' was
    the first thing I heard from him.  Then a buddy let me listen to a live
    album of his - jesusss !  Big difference.  
    
    Slash's probably more rounded than we think.  Maybe if he ever releases
    a solo album we'll be able to tell ... 8^)
    
    Scary 

    Another one is Alex Skolnick of Testament.  His tastes have absolutely
    nothing in common with what Testament cranks out.
    
    Re: obscenities
    
    That's no big deal once in a while, but it seems to be a way of life
    for some.  Slash & Axl did a radio spot for one of the local radio
    stations and couldn't even get through it without an obscenity.  Quote:
    "Hey you F**KERS in Arizona, you're listening to GnR on 98 KUPD!"
    Pretty immature if you ask me.
    
    Re: acceptance
    
    I also have a hard time seperating the person from the music.  Whether 
    you admit it or not, there is some level of acceptance that comes through 
    supporting an artist.  If I can't respect them to some degree, I don't 
    waste my money.
    
    Mike

    Regarding this thing about whether Slash is *blues based* ...
    isn't everybody who plays basic Rock blues based by default?
    
    And another thing, what's this bullsh!t about Slash showing emotion?
    You mean to tell me he like get's his mind to perhaps a sad point of
    his life and musically pontificates, adds texture to the tune,
    and thoughtfully develops that emotion when when he plays? Oh
    fercrissakes, seems to me he's just running notes together - pentatonic
    scales I guess - and I don't know theory unless it bites me in the
    ass.
    
    I wonder what emotion he'll evoke when he reflects upon peeing in the
    aisle of the airplane.
    
    "sakman"

    As I've said before, what Guns&Roses do or say in their spare time is
    none of my business, even if some media halfwits want to try and make
    it seem like it is.  I really could care less whether they're immature,
    or if they drink too much or take drugs or smoke cigarettes or WHAT.  I
    like their music and that's what I listen to.  
    
    I don't worship them or claim they're the worlds best musicians, I just
    listen to their music.  I find it entertaining and enjoyable.  Like
    Alan said, I don't see how buying their ablums says I endorse their
    lifestyle or want it for my own.  It doesn't say anything like that, it
    simply says I like the music and want to listen to it.
    
    I found it kind of ironic to notice that the first note I came to after
    I read this original discussion (before I moved it here) had a noter
    (who had not been involved in *this* discussion) referring to some
    player that was not a strict blues player as being "blues based" and
    nobody complained at all.  But if it's Slash, everyone's quick to jump
    up and down and claim that Stevie Ray would turn over in his grave
    because someone said he played "blues based" riffs.  But this doesn't
    happen when it's someone people like.
    
    Food for thought...
    
    Greg
                                         

    Angus Young isn't in the media spotlight like Slash is.  He doesn't go
    out of his way to cause controversy.  Slash is much more accomplished
    as far as speed goes.  Once you prove you have speed it's hard to be
    tagged as a bluesman, mainly because the essence of blues is slower
    phrasing (Malmsteen does Muddy Waters ?  I think not ...).  Angus plays
    a lot slower, giving room to display more emotion.  Just an angle ...
    
    We gotta keep in mind that we all have heroes, and they all are great
    to *us*.  Your mind has a way of justifying things you really like. 
    Slash can be a drunken slob to one person - that's ok.  Eddie VanHalen
    can act in a similar manner, and he's a drunken slob ... right ?
    
    To each his own.
    
    Scary
    
       

    Re: Slash & emotion
    
    I guess that's up to personal interpretation.  I don't hear emotion in
    his playing.  It's just mindless rock to me.  Some people even think 
    Steve Vai shows emotion in his playing ;-)

    Hey Jerry, you heard the new GnR stuff?  Slash plays a lot of slow
    emotional solos.  His fast stuff shows improvement from the AfD days
    too.
    
    Greg

    
    	re seperating the musician from the music.
    
    	NO can do. For me, the latter wo0uld not exist without the former.
    Where is that muisic coming from,.. if not the musician? Whose emotions
    are "coming out in the music" if it aint the musicians.
    
    	Actually,. in a clinical sense, I can make the seperation. I can
    	listen to GNR and block out everything except Slash's guitar and say
    to myself "Man he is good". ON the other hand, that other guy,.. yeah
    you know,.. that singer dude,. I mean if you call that singing,.. and
    those words! My what a nice wonderful message he is delivering. I guess
    thats what keeps me fome saying I like the band. Slash yeah,. he blows
    me away,.. Axl,.. Someone should blow him away so Slash could get a 
    change of scene.
    
    	As a guitar player,.. its defeintely two seperate questions to me.
    
    	1) Do you like Slash's guitar work?
    	2) Do you like the band
    
    	Answer to 1 is YES.
    
    	In pondering question2, I AM going to take into account their
    lyrics, their stage show, their *message*, etc,.. even their off
    stage life can come into it. Sorry,.. but it doesn't seem to be
    anytyhing more than rebels without a clue to me.
    
    
    	Just my opinion I guess
    
    						/Bill
    
    

    >I guess that's up to personal interpretation.  I don't hear emotion in
    >his playing.  It's just mindless rock to me.

    I guess it *is* up to personal interpretation, as I hear a LOT of
    emotion in Slash's playing...most notably on UYI 1.  Mindless rock,
    to me, is Chris Impellitarri!!  I mean, when I hear Slash sustaining
    a note, while the chords change underneath, I hear emotion in the
    decision to phrase that note in such a manner.  Mindless rock players
    would have a lick/chord change, regardless of the situation, IMHO.

    Re: Bill Salkewicz
    
    You're not alone in your feelings.  I agree 100%!
    

    My muddled point is simply that there are plenty of bands that that are
    as hard rockin' as this one that I like or, at the very least, can
    tolerate. My problem with GnR has nothing to do the style of music that
    they play. I was responding to the implication that maybe people aren't
    giving them a chance because many people are biased against heavy metal,
    which I never considered GnR to be anyway.

    I disliked their music the first time I heard it. That was way before I
    knew anything about them. It's not the other way around. I didn't become
    prejudiced by the media before I heard them. As I find out about the
    people in the band I say to myself "Oh, the reason they sound like crap
    (to me, of course) is because they're crappy people."
    
    The more I learn about them, the more it seems to me that their music is
    MERELY a reflection of their personalities. Nothing more. A vent. I get
    the feeling that if these guys weren't playing music, they'd be
    criminals, vandelizing public property or selling drugs or something.
    That's the way they behave. There doesn't seem to be any separation
    between the lives of the individuals and the music. They are inseparably
    intertwined.

    I don't mean to offend anybody (except GnR) by this. It's just my
    opinion of this band.

    end-of-ramble

    BTW, my mom (in her 70s) like them.

    re: 56
    
    I wonder if mom would like to sit next to them on a plane.
    
    Oh they're such nice boys! :+)
    
    

Your MOM likes GnR's ??

I guess I'll add my $.02... Not that its worth that much but...

I dunno man.  I think the hype and glit around Slash and crew gets to me
also.  I think he's a sleazoid.  As for his playing I feel that he's a 
hack.  Not that that is *that* bad, cuz a lot of players are hacks.
It fits GnR's music so I guess it's okay.   

They've got a couple of catchy toons (Sweet Child, Welcome To The Jungle,
Night Train et.el...  He might be playing blues style riffs but they don't 
come out bluesy...And he might be fast, but I don't see much feeling in 
his playing...And I've heard the two CD set too.  Just doesn't come off to me
as any kinda hero.

I've kinda been getting off on Angus again lately.  I go in cycles with 
Angus.  Lately I've programmed some Angus patches even - something else I 
do bi-yearly.  :)

Enough ramble...
jc

>Your MOM likes GnR's ??

    Yeah, I'm afraid she knows nothing of their antics and can't understand
    there vocals, but she saw them on TV and told me she thinks they're a
    great guitar band. (She likes guitar bands.) But she doesn't like bands
    and bounce up and down or swing their hair around a lot. She's more of a
    38 Special type. But she pointed out to me that the Slashster was a
    really good guitarist.

    She would become quite disillusioned if she knew their lyrics, though.

Wow - thats cool!  My mom thinks the Beatles are heavy metal.  If only 
she could see HardBall !

Mom is WJIB material.  :)

jc

    I know that to go against the grain of sentiment in a notesfile is
    somewhat akin to social suicide but.. I really don't like GnR or
    Slash or any of the rest of the band. I don't have any of their albums
    and I don't plan on getting any. When you compare Slash with some
    of the truly great guitarists there is really no comparison. I don't
    mind if you like the band, why should you mind if I don't...
    
    				but then...
    
    		I never really cared for Jimi Hendrix either...
    
    				SHIELDS UP
    
    Lowell
    

re:.61

Don't feel bad, I not much of a Hendrix fan either

Obligatory Slash comment:

I think he's a pretty good guitarist. His style fits well
with the band and (IMHO) he gets a monster tone.


-T

    
    My mom is 51 this year and she loves Malmsteen's "Marching Out"
    album......she gets more bizarre all the time....
    
    
    guy

    
    
    I like Slash's playing a lot.  I put Slash in the same class as Joe
    Perry, meaning great hooks and a good riff player.  Joe Perry still has
    the edge in the great hooks department, but Slash is much faster.

    
    I like G+R, too, although their bad guy image doesn't do anything for
    me.  But, they did kick their drummer out for too many drugs, right?
    
    
    Kevin

    This discussion has gotten me to reflect a little on various people that
    I HAVE admired, whose life style I cannot endorse. I consider Jaco
    Pastorius to have been a musician of enormous merit. But I was shocked
    after his death to have read about his life style. Still, I listen to
    his music and hear nothing but truly great music. I admit, I haven't
    heard anything that he did when he was completely out of control.

    --Ron(thinking-out-loud sort of)

    Re: Slash & Joe Perry
    
    As so many bands are tagged as being Led Zep clones, I always thought GnR
    was an Aerosmith clone.
    
    Mike (who doesn't like Hendrix that much either ;-))

    
    
       I'll listen to _any_ kind of music.  Anything - but I stab the radio
    to another station the second I hear GnRs.   So, I can't say that Slash
    plays this well and he does that well.   So they loose out on one sale.
    Yeah, I don't think they will miss any sleep.   Like ANYONE would care
    for that matter.   But...
    
    
       If Slash took a leak while I was in the seats near the cabin cross
    way,   I would have told him very    c l e a r l y   that he was a 
    scum bag _____ head.   
    
       If he did it in front of Deb,   I would have beaten the F%@*er half 
    to death.   (Then a roadie would have gotten me.)   So, what goes round
    comes round I guess.
    
       I wish I had checked them out earlier, I may have liked their music.
    Oh well. 
    
       Rick.
    
       

>       If he did it in front of Deb,   I would have beaten the F%@*er half 
>    to death.   (Then a roadie would have gotten me.)   So, what goes round
>    comes round I guess.

    And so many of the rest of us would have only fantisized about doing it.

    Seriously, Mozart was supposed to have been a little hard to take, too.
    But I don't think he ever whizzed in the galley of a commercial jet. :)

    >Seriously, Mozart was supposed to have been a little hard to take, too.
    >But I don't think he ever whizzed in the galley of a commercial jet. :)
    
    Knowing Mozart...had they had commercial jet's in the late 1700s, I'm
    sure he would have done it!

    According to one source in here already mentioned,..
    
    	IT WASN'T SLASH THAT PISSED IN THE AISLE OF THE PLANE
    
    	It was the other guitarist.
    
    	Seems like we can;t let the facts get in the way of a good
    Slash Bashing...
    
    							/Bill
    

>    Knowing Mozart...had they had commercial jet's in the late 1700s, I'm
>    sure he would have done it!

    Buck, You KNEW Mozart???? And I thought my mom was the oldest person
    to like Guns-n-Roses.
    
    bah-dah-boom

    >Buck, You KNEW Mozart???? And I thought my mom was the oldest person
    >to like Guns-n-Roses.
    
    Ya dude, I played lead guitar in his band...Mozart and the Mo-fo's
    8^)
    
    I know, I don't look a day over 200!

re:  .71

Bill's right, it was Izzy who uh, 'relieved' himself on the
airplane

-T

    
    

       Wasn't Slash?  Oh, sorry.   But you get the idea.  
    Bronson stuff?  Nope.   I might be hyper-active when 
    it comes to good times. I don't pull "Bronson" deals.  
    (Not meant to sound defensive.)  But tell me you wouldn't
    go wacko if it happened in front of the woman you love.
    Sure.
    
       There are two things that put me off about GnRs.
    Vocals and antics.  I don't follow what they do -
    so I really do not know when to turn to another 
    station until I hear Axel's <sp?> voice.   Personal
    preferance is all that boils down to. What instrumentals
    I've heard so far are ok - I guess.  
    
       The whole antic thing is just too much for me. 
    They do it for pubilcity I suppose.  Maybe its a sharp
    idea and they are better off for it.   Or, they are
    complete losers and will end up drunken addicts in five
    years.  Only time will tell.  
    
       Hell, maybe I am getting defensive.  Sorry.
    
    
       Rick  _chilled_ 
    
    

    One of the reasons I *like* GnR is for Axl's voice...I just LOVE it!
    But then again, I like bands like Rhino Bucket, KIX, and Salty Dog cuz
    of the vocalists.

    Well, guess who popped up on the cover of Guitar PLayer this month?
    
    Yuppers, good ole SLASH!  The article is titled 'the hands behind the
    hype'.  How appropo.  8^)
    
    Buck, who thinks Slash's playing on Michael Jackson's _Black or White_
    tune is cool.

    re.70
    
    I always thought that it's not only that they had no commercial jets in
    the 18th century but that they had no jets at all...:-))
    
    
    sascha

    Don't know about over the water but a "slash" in the UK means to take a
    leak, as in "I'm just going for a slash"
    
    c, m

    note how Bill ' slash' Salkewicz, who normally signs his notes 
    
    'slash' 
    
    has taken to signing them 
    
    'bill'
    
    since the onset of this discussion :-)
    
    I'd write more, but I've got to run down to the 'loo' for a 'slash' right
    now :-)

    re:.79
    
    Gee, we've never heard that before...

    Guess why I DIDN'T buy the current issue of Guitar Player.

    well if I had a subscription, I'd cancel it! ;-)

    I renewed mine...

    or is that spelled "renude"?

    Naw.  I don't nude myself for Slash, I just like his guitar playing.
    

    Well, for those who avoid the Slash article in GP on principle,
    I guess you'll miss a pretty good article.  Slash is articulate
    and has a lot of interesting stuff to say about his approach to
    the instrument.
    
    /rick
    ^
    ^
    (pronounced "slash rick")

    Boy, are my impressions of some of you folks ever dashed!
    
    Not because you don't like Slash (that's your opinion, and you're
    entitled to it, even if it is rather childishly stated in some cases).
    
    I'm just amazed that so many of you are so easily duped by the media
    and their wonderful way of elevating entertainers, especially
    controversial ones.
    
    How many of you started to like the Rolling Stones after they pissed on
    the filling station wall in England?
    
    The fact is : Guns 'n' Roses play a relatively basic, and raw style of
    'rock' music (whatever that is these days), that will appeal to you if
    you like that type of music.
    
    As for respect, there's so much CRAP being produced by clean living
    well groomed politically correct 'musicians' these days that I don't
    think any one who likes music can afford to ignore music they would
    otherwise enjoy just because the creator isn't up to their moral
    standards. Think of the politically corrupt environments most classical
    composers worked in (talk about payola; getting paid for writing what
    the emperor liked).
    
    Just so you all have ammo to jump me with, I like Guns 'n' Roses, ever
    since I heard 'Sweet Child Of Mine' on the radio. That's right, HEARD!
    No video, no promo hype, just hearing a song and liking it.
    
    If a band plays music you like, buy the album, if you can afford it.
    
    If they don't, who cares.
    
    You guys live in America, right?
    
    Then start acting that way.
    
    
    						Cal C.
    
    						Burlington, Ontario, Canada
    

>    Boy, are my impressions of some of you folks ever dashed!

    So?
    
>    Not because you don't like Slash (that's your opinion, and you're
>    entitled to it, even if it is rather childishly stated in some cases).

    Let's not talk about acting grown up and gunsnroses in the same breath.
    OK?
    
>    I'm just amazed that so many of you are so easily duped by the media
>    and their wonderful way of elevating entertainers, especially
>    controversial ones.

    Duped? Nope. I know trash when I see it.
    
>    How many of you started to like the Rolling Stones after they pissed on
>    the filling station wall in England?

    I didn't know they pissed on a filling station wall?!? Well that does it!

>    The fact is : Guns 'n' Roses play a relatively basic, and raw style of
>    'rock' music (whatever that is these days), that will appeal to you if
>    you like that type of music.

    Basic? Sort of. Raw? Definitely

>    As for respect, there's so much CRAP being produced by clean living
>    well groomed politically correct 'musicians' these days that I don't
>    think any one who likes music can afford to ignore music they would
>    otherwise enjoy just because the creator isn't up to their moral
>    standards. Think of the politically corrupt environments most classical
>    composers worked in (talk about payola; getting paid for writing what
>    the emperor liked).

    I agree (I think).
    
>    Just so you all have ammo to jump me with, I like Guns 'n' Roses, ever
>    since I heard 'Sweet Child Of Mine' on the radio. That's right, HEARD!
>    No video, no promo hype, just hearing a song and liking it.

    Replace "like" with "dislike" and that's exactly what I say. It's the
    hype that makes it REALLY irritating.
    
>    If a band plays music you like, buy the album, if you can afford it.
    
>    If they don't, who cares.
    
>    You guys live in America, right?

    Well, some of us do. The rest of us live in Massachusetts.
    
>    Then start acting that way.

    I do. I vote with my wallet.

    I just finished reading the Slash interview in GP.  Great interview.
    As Rick C. noted, he's well spoken and articulate, with a good
    perspective on his playing and his career.  
    
    Not you typical 'rock guitar hero' interview, fwiw.

    Well, since it wasn't coming from a `guitar hero', I guess it's not so
    bad.  ;^)
    
    Or was that a typo on your part .... should have read `rock guitar
    zero' ....  8^] x 4000 ....
    ^^^^
    
    
    Scary ....

     I thought it was the WHO pissing on  the gas station wall

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
                     Does that make me a guitar hero?
    
    
    
    
    
    

	Weh-yee-ell, since I-yee-I am the one who ki-yee-ind of got
	this note going, I-yee-I will just say-yee-ay that it's
	the way-yee-ay that "singer" phra-yee-ay-ses that turns me 
	aw-yee-off to the ba-yee-and.

	;^)

    >I will just say-yee-ay that it's the way-yee-ay that "singer"
    >phra-yee-ay-ses that turns me aw-yee-off to the ba-yee-and.
     
    Last I heard you mouthing off about how much you hated GnR, there
    was more to it than the singer.                          

    
    Sheesh, Buck - calm down.  I don't like them because of the singer.
    I don't listen to them for that reason - he totally destroyed
    "Live and Let Die" on TV awhile back.  Slash may be a good guitarist
    but I won't find out because I honestly despise the singer.  I'm
    always hearing great metal guitarists that I'll never get into simply
    because of the high pitched screams of their lead singers.
    
    As far as mouthing off, I just didn't care for 30 replies about
    Slash in a note that had nothing to do with him.  It would be like
    whizzing about Springsteen using Boogies in one of your notes.
    
    Tom
    

    I'm just saying that the last discussion I had with you about GnR and
    your dislike of the band did not yeild the simple explanation of "I
    don't like the singer".  If you've since changed your mind...great (at
    least it gives some credit to the rest of the band).

    
    	Yeah, it was a global statement against the band but it just
    	happened to be because of Slash.  And I did read his GP interview
    	too.  I often wonder how I'd feel about some of these bands if I
    	liked their singer.  That high pitched style just doesn't appeal
    	to me (I don't mind Hagar and Roth tho).
    
    	Now let's see, imagine a G&R song with Luthor Vandross singing
    	the vocal...  ;^)
    

    
    By now I thought somebody would have mentioned that Izzy Stradlin was
    fired from the band over Thanksgiving weekend.

    Not fired. 
    
    Izzy left the band, after long speculation in the media, as he was not
    into the whole touring scene.  His replacement/leaving was announced
    over Thanksgiving weekend, as the 3rd leg of the GnR UYI tour kicks 
    off this week in Worcester, Mass at the Centrum.
    
    FYI...

    Gee, wotta coincidence that Izzy sings a whole bunch on the new
    albums...who's next?
    
    						Brian

>    Izzy left the band, after long speculation in the media, as he was not
>    into the whole touring scene.

    Yeah, that makes sense. Travel is a bitch when you have bladder
    control problems.
    
    :)

    Guns and Roses would be better if the Vocalist (Axel "grease" Rose)
    left. He is way to arrogant, and stuck-up on himself to be of any
    worth.
    Any man that treats his income (enduring fans) that should GIVE IT UP!
    
    I heard about the Metallica/G-n-R show and many of the fans of GNR are
    no longer as srtong as they used to be.

    
    
    Weren't people saying the same thing about Mick Jagger in the Stone's
    day ? I don't care that much for GnR but its all a big PR job methinks.
    
    -tony

    Not when the fans are being attacked over a photograph.
    Is Axel Rose that ugly that he can't allow some one to take his picture
    without perfession touch-ups?

    
    Its no different to someone like Richard Gere belting a photographer.
    They shouldn't be bringing cameras into the auditorium anyway.
    
    -tony

huh?

    Whenever someone takes my picture while I'm playing, I drop my bass
    immediately, grab the photographer and beat the s**t out of them.  You
    let those slimeballs get away with it once and next thing you know
    you're in the Enquirer and everybody in the whole world sees you
    sucking on Fergie's toes for pete's sake.  You gotta draw the line
    somewhere.
    
    						Felix Papparazzi

    Geez I was gonna take my 35mm when I go see them in March...maybe I can
    get him to hit me and I'll sue for a marshall stack :-)
    
    dbii

    (Psst... wanna buy some pics of Brian Rost wearing only his bass?)
    
    Galen Trowel

    Be sure not to take any shots after he drops the bass to come pummel
    you...

    >    Its no different to someone like Richard Gere belting a photographer.
    
    Does that Make it Okay ?
    From what I've seen in interviews and spots on the band Axel is an
    As*h**e. If he we're to change his Attitude that Band could be so much
    better.

    
    Missing the point my friend.
    
    Bottom line, the guy was not supposed to be taking pictures and knew
    it. He violated that rule and paid the price with a headache. Whats
    next, people taking a loaded guns with them ?
    
    -Tony

    You still don't understand what I'm saying ...
    Axel, from my point of view, has no talent to have the chip on his
    shoulder that he does. The rest of the band could go far but with the
    fans sick of late shows, Axel walking off stage just because, and Slash
    going on for extended solos they don't have much of a chance of staying
    afloat.
    
    It's the fans that make you famous and popular. I don't care how good
    you are, with out your fans you ain't s**t. And his fans are taking the
    lifeboat and getting out.

    
    The guy does have an attitude - agreed. But GnR are one of the most
    sucessful bands in the world at the moment if not THE most sucessful
    (Axel and Slash write most of the songs, there goes your talent
    analysis). How long for is irrelevant, they are in the music business and 
    music has nothing to do with 'how many albums'. Quality not quantity is 
    what its about.
    
    I don't care much for GnR, but they sure as hell DO have talent to be 
    where they are today. 
    
    BTW, try and stick to one line of discussion, it makes things somewhat 
    easy to follow.
    
    -tony

    >(Axel and Slash write most of the songs, there goes your talent
    >analysis).    I don't care much for GnR, but they sure as hell DO have
    >talent to be  where they are today. 
    
    Half of the third world probably has the "talent" to write the G&R
    songs.  Yeah, they have some nice hooks but it's not exactly brain
    surgery.  And anyone who saw them do that "?? Rain" ballad on TV with
    Elton John may recall how Slash missed about 50% of the notes for his
    solo...and just kept on going, one sour note after another!  Sounded
    like one of my solos 8^)  8^)  One of the poorest performances by a
    chart-topping band I've ever seen.
    
    Popularity aint everything, been out to see BTO lately?  In the 70s they
    weer setting attendance records?  How about Grand Funk Railroad, Peter
    Frampton, Bee Gees, etc., etc., etc.  A guy like Van Morrison never
    sold as many records as those guys did at their peak, but he's been
    selling records steadily for a long, long, time; to me, THAT is
    longevity and talent.
    
    No-shows and screw-ups did in Sly Stone (anybody remember him?), we'll
    wait and see how Axl makes out.
    
    
    							Brian

>    (Axel and Slash write most of the songs, there goes your talent
>    analysis). 

    I'd say this is vindication for those making the no-talent asserting.

    --Ron

    
    GnR are making music for a specific market and are very good at catering 
    for said market. Sure, many people have the technical ability to do that, 
    but right now, its GnR up there.
    
    Half the reason GnR are so famous is because of Axl's attitude and people 
    bitching about him constantly. They are a household name because of huge
    publicity (usually free) and love 'em or hate 'em, will be around for 
    years to come, provided they haven't killed themselves or each other 
    before then.
    
    Just because it doesn't apeal to you Brian doesn't mean that you can 
    dismiss is as talentless. As for the guitar playing aspects, one minute
    Steve Vai is being slagged in this conference for being to mechanical and 
    note perfect and the next Slash is for being sloppy. Whats it gonna be 
    guys ?
    
    -tony

>    Axel, from my point of view, has no talent to have the chip on his
>    shoulder that he does. The rest of the band could go far but with the
>    fans sick of late shows, Axel walking off stage just because, and Slash
>    going on for extended solos they don't have much of a chance of staying
>    afloat.
>
>    It's the fans that make you famous and popular. I don't care how good
>    you are, with out your fans you ain't s**t. And his fans are taking the
>    lifeboat and getting out.
        
    Chris, I think you must have missed about the last 4 years, 'cause GnR
    have *already* gone far, probably as far as they ever will (or could). 
    How much more popular can you get then selling out the biggest stadiums
    in the world?   They're all set for life financially and need do
    nothing more, ever.  

    I disagree about the fans giving up on them, they're still incredibly
    popular.  And all Axl's antics are nothing but free publicity for the
    band.  Even if nobody likes it, or likes him, they're still hearing his
    name all the time and that sells records.  For someone already
    established like GnR, negative publicity is just as effective as
    positive publicity.

    As far as the talent thing, I'm not even going to touch it.  It's
    completely subjective.  This all sounds kinda familiar, I wonder what
    people were saying about the Rolling Stones about 20-25 years ago...?

    I personally like GnR's stuff and buy their albums, but I probably
    won't ever bother going to one of their concerts.  But that's not
    because of Axl, the same reasoning applies to most stadium rock shows
    for me.  Why would I want to pay between two and three times more then
    a comparable club show to be herded like cattle into a giant stadium
    surrounded by several thousand screamin kids half my age, where the
    acoustics and sound suck and the performers look about the size of
    ants?

    Greg
                       

   
    >Just because it doesn't apeal to you Brian doesn't mean that you can 
    >dismiss is as talentless. As for the guitar playing aspects, one minute
    >Steve Vai is being slagged in this conference for being to mechanical
    >and  note perfect and the next Slash is for being sloppy. Whats it
    >gonna be  guys ?
    
    I didn't say that they had NO talent, they are just about as talented
    as they need to be at their level in the music business.  *But* the
    live performances I've seen on TV fell far short compared to their
    records.  
    
    Sloppiness is OK, I like Neil Young, Kinks, Muddy Waters, lotsa sloppy
    stuff.  I was just *surprised* how bad Slash was messing up his
    lines...I mean, Neil Young sounds about the same live or on LP, whereas
    Slash doesn't (to me).  I like his recorded leads, because he reminds
    me of all the post-Cream/pre-Allmans fretburners that I listened to
    when I was a sprout.  
    
    I don't dislike Steve Vai for being mechanical, I don't even dislike
    him per se, I just don't listen to him because I haven't heard him do
    any songs I liked.   
    
    >Half the reason GnR are so famous is because of Axl's attitude and
    >people  bitching about him constantly. They are a household name
    >because of huge publicity (usually free) 
    
    That's the wonder of the record biz, eh?...you can't *buy* the kind of
    press exposure these guys get.  Then again, urinating in public is
    nothing new, the Stones got some mileage out of that thirty years ago! 
    The only reason folks like Axl or Madonna are tolerated by the business
    is that they are the geese laying the golden eggs.  
    
    I really have nothing against G&R, I don't even punch the radio buttons
    when they come on.  I just haven't been moved to pay money for it. For
    me, they're just a blip on the radar.  The more I listen to stuff that
    is *not* rock, the less I can deal with the hype that goes along with
    rockers.  If I *really* wanna boogie till I puke, I can always go see a
    zydeco band.    
    
    							Brian

>    *But* the live performances I've seen on TV fell far short compared to
>    their records.                                                  
    
    Perhaps you just caught a couple of bad ones.  I've seen several of
    their performences that I thought were very good.  I try and catch
    their TV spots when I can, so I've seen quite a few.  That MTV awards
    show was absolutely the worst I've ever heard Slash.  His tone was
    nowhere and his playing was really off.  Every other time I've seen
    them, he's sounded much better.  In fact, I usually love his tone and
    his style, despite his sloppineses.  Perhaps the fact that his tone was
    so screwed up affected his playing that night, it definitely does that
    to me.
          
    Greg

    
    The first I saw them was a tape of that Ritz gig in New York and they
    were terrible but they do seem to have got better since then.
    
    -Tony

    >	GnR have 2 shows scheduled here in Connecticut soon. Both of these
    >shows still have plenty of seats available vs. them selling out in a
    >few hours just a year or 2 ago... Maybe their time has come and gone...
    
    You wish, John!  The fact is this is the THIRD leg of their UYI tour.
    They've already been through NE three times, I think that has something
    to do with the ticket sales...
    
    And FWIW, I get a listing weekly of the top grossing concerts
    nationwide -- believe me, GnR are NOT losing popularity!

They sold out the Portland Maine show in under two hours, now this is a small
room, holds about 4K people...I'm surprised they even booked it, on the other
hand at $28 per ticket it's probably still a good paycheck...

dbii who is going despite the fact that he doesn't really like them, the warmup 
though is Brian May...

    I'm not trying to say that Slash is bad either I just don't like Antics
    Axel. If he is everything you guys say he is then why doesn't he
    lighten up and sing songs, write music, and perform. Slash can pull
    some stuff out his ass (that's a compliment where i come from). The man
    knows his stuff, but, I heard (going back to the Metallica/Guns-n-Roses
    Tour) that the only shining moment was when Metallica played. Big fans
    of GNR were pissed as hell for paying $30 + for a concert that Duff was
    singing Lead Vocals! Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they do have staying
    potential, but until I see something change and they perform and act
    like the musicians they say they are, I staying out of GNR country ...
    B"(

    >I'm not trying to say that Slash is bad either I just don't like Antics
    >Axel. If he is everything you guys say he is then why doesn't he
    >lighten up and sing songs, write music, and perform.
    
    Look, you *obviously* don't know anything about the man.  His
    "antics" stem in large part from his manic depression and the
    fact that he is the survivor of childhood abuse.  Since I
    have a relative with manic depression, I know what I'm talking
    about here -- they can't be held accountable for their actions 
    like you and it ... it's a disability, but most people don't
    recognize that, or have sympathy for it, since it's not a disability
    you can "see" (unlike someone who has MS, or is blind, or is in
    a wheelchair).  So obviously since you can't SEE it, it's not 
    there, right?  WRONG!!  
    
    Go bone up on your reading on manic depression and then come
    back into this note to post your opinions ... because your 
    opinions now, void of any knowlegde of the disease, are total
    BS.
    
    later..

    My daughter was into Gums'n'Noses until she read some of the
    lyrics......
    I've always loved Slash's tone,I don't think anyone in here has
    disputed that so far.I *really* hate Axl's nasal voice,and that's 
    why I usually turn off after the guitar break.
    
    FWIW, I played in a band for three years with a manic depressive.Hard to
    understand,hard to work with,but worth persevering working with the guy
    despite all the hard times we went through.He was a real good musician,
    and his troubles seemed to come out in his playing and singing,you
    know,the "voice of experience".I know it sounds airy-fairy,but really,
    I've seldom heard anyone sing with that much passion
    
    							  Jim.
    

    >    Look, you *obviously* don't know anything about the man.  His
    > "antics" stem in large part from his manic depression and the
    > fact that he is the survivor of childhood abuse.
    
    	Unless the interview was BS in Rolling Stone, I caught his comments
    in there. I sorry his life went that way. I'm also sorry for pissing
    POWDML::BUCKLEY off. That was not my intention. I just wanted to point
    out what people have said and what I've heard.
    	If Axel had a rough childhood, fine, I've dealt with abuse victims
    and drug addicts and Depressive people also. I think we all have but if
    he's in that bad of shape mentally he should talk to people that will
    help him get over the past and work on the present and the future. I
    not saying he needs Psychological help but someone for him to release
    on than the typical Pecking order.
    	Again I'm truely sorry I sent you flying, POWDML::BUCKLEY, but it
    doesn't change my mind about Axel Rose.
    

    -1
    
    But I see you as trying to passa negative judgement on Axl due to
    behaviors he exhibits which annoy you.  You've said yourself you
    "wished he would grow up".  Well, all I am saying is you cannot 
    judge his actions like you would judge a normal person doing the same.

    >  Well, all I am saying is you cannot judge his actions like you 
    >  would judge a normal person doing the same.
                     ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
    Agreed. But by the same token, are you saying he's not "normal"?
    We all have problems, and your problems, in comparison, will not be as
    aweful as mine and vice versa, but we learn to deal with them in our
    own fashion. I think he's going about it the wrong way. Tell us the
    pain in song not in getting arrested, assaulting people, etc.
    Maybe I'll finally take a listen to the stuff and maybe I'll see
    something different.
    
    Chris
    

    	I have always wondered why succsesfull, famous people are expected
    and judged on their personal life, history, and behaviour..all of
    which in MHO have nothing to do with their reason for success in their
    particular feild of endeavour.  Sure it is always nice to hear that
    so and so is a really nice guy, but remember they are just like you and
    me , and  I sure wouldn't want the press going into my past.
    P.K.

    reply: -1
    	It goes with the territory though ...
    People are going to want to know where you were born, who you've dated,
    what scandal you're invovled in now. It's human nature. I agree though,
    I wouldn't want some press hound lurking around every corner waiting
    for me to do a great boof for them to take out of context.
    	What I've said from the start is that when Entertainers of any kind
    act that way in public delibrately (for publicity) or not you would
    think that these people might stop and think what kind of influence
    they have?
    	Controversy has arisen from this. Judas Priest and Ozzy Osbourne
    have been taken to court because of the lyrics causing suicide. I think the
    children were giving the signals for help, but no one was receiving
    them.
    	With all of Axel Rose's popularity maybe he might hold back when he
    really wants to nail some guy for taking a picture. We have all had our
    moments when you really want to beat the holy sh*t out of some idiot
    but we stopped (at least some of us), didn't we. What makes people who
    are making a lot of money above the law?
    I sorry for making it a moral issue, because 1) I'm definately not one
    to talk of moral issues, 2) it doesn't belong here in this conference,
    but a few notes previous it was mention that Axel in not normal, so
    what made him change, if he's so good why does he need *that* much
    pubilicity?
    
    Chris
    

    >	What I've said from the start is that when Entertainers of any kind
    >act that way in public delibrately (for publicity) or not you would
    >think that these people might stop and think what kind of influence
    >           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  
    >they have?
    

    >	With all of Axel Rose's popularity maybe he might hold back when he
    >really wants to nail some guy for taking a picture. We have all had our
    >moments when you really want to beat the holy sh*t out of some idiot
    >but we stopped (at least some of us), didn't we. What makes people who
    >are making a lot of money above the law?
    
    Chris, you still *really* don't get it, do you??  The guy is a MANIC
    DEPRESSIVE!  Although you stated a few back that you know what this
    is all about, your note above proves that you absolutly DO NOT know
    another about this disease and how it affects people!!
    
    When I said a few notes back "you can't judge his actions like you
    would a normal person", what I meant by 'normal' was 'someone who
    wasn't manic'.  You see, when a manic depressive is in a fit of mania,
    it's like having a momentary laspe of reason.  So when Axl nails some
    guy for taking his picture, or wings a swivel chair off a balcony, or
    any of that other stuff he has done that has caused controversy, it's
    due to his mania more than anything.  You state above "you think these
    people would stop and think awhat kind of influence [their actions]
    have", but that's just it, when someone's in mania, they CAN'T think
    for themselves, their brain has taken over their ability to reason
    normally!  What do you think the meaning of the word "maniac" is,
    anyways??  It's derived from this disease.
    
    The same goes for your statements where you think Axl uses his
    popularity for a 'scapegoat' for his actions.  You state "what
    makes people who are making a lot of money above the law?".  Led
    Zeppelin trashing their hotel rooms in the 70s cuz they had nothing
    better to do, and had the money to pay for it is a good example of
    what you're talking about, but once again, you cannot blame Axl for
    his fits of mania by trying to pin his "actions" on the same basis.

    Re: last few
    
    Whoa, slow down, chill out!
    
    A lot of points are being bandied about there but the main thing is
    that whether or not Axl is a manic depressive has no bearing on whether
    it's acceptable to the fans to act like that.  I say NO when it's $30
    and up out of my pocket.  As a *professional* he owes it to the
    audience to put on a show.  Period.
    
    Axl's behavior is not uncommon, BTW.  There have been numerous opera
    divas (Callas and Battle come to mind) who have had rather stormy
    relationships with their audiences ala Axl.  Then there's always Sly
    Stone, Johnny Lydon, George Jones, Miles Davis and others who have been
    accused of insulting their audiences with no-shows, on-stage tantrums,
    etc.
    
    							Brian

>    	With all of Axel Rose's popularity maybe he might hold back when he
>    really wants to nail some guy for taking a picture. 

    It's real easy to judge someone when you weren't there and don't really
    know what happened.  According to an interview with Axl that I saw on
    MTV not long after the incident, there was a lot more involved in that
    particular situation then just some guy standing there taking his
    photo...  The rest of the media made it sound like he saw someone there
    with a camera and jumped down into the crowd and started going off on
    the guy, but there was more to it then just that, both before and
    during the show.

    I don't know about Axl, but I've done a lot of irrational things due to
    problems like chemical imbalances in my body and stuff (no folks, I'm
    not talking about drugs here, I'm talking about blood sugar disorders).
    It wouldn't matter if I were nobody (like I am), or fantastically
    famous and rich, even if I *tried* my hardest to be "professional"
    there could possibly be situations where I couldn't.  The effect of
    certain psychological problems can be far more devastating...

    Why doesn't he get help?  He has!!!  He's been in therepy for something
    like 4 years, several times a week!  He's supposedly a lot better now
    then he was before he started.
    
    Greg

    Seriously, child abuse and depression are terrible things to deal with
    but there are answers.

    I heard teh new Michael Jackson song and thought his tone was
    absolutely crap.I've never had a problem with his tone but this time it
    gets on my nerves in a big way!
    
    
                                                 staynz

    Hey db_II
    
    Cool you were into the show!!  Yeah, Slash is in no way 'the best',
    but he's got good chops and a great feel to his solos.  And yeah,
    Axl can really wail on those ivory keys!
    
    
    RE: staynz
    
    I've heard Slash's guitar tone sounds really good AND really bad.
    But, I've heard Joe Perry sound the same way, so...
    
    ???

    
    
    	RE-1  good tone bad tone.....
    
    
    
    		MUST be.. all those Marshalls..eh?
    
    

I didn;t see any marshalls, I did see a stack of 9 VAXAC30's...but those
weren't on Slash's side, what he had was unidentifiable to me, but they
were not Marshalls, they looked wierd....

Yeah great show, and I get to do it again next week...

oh yeah, the VOXen weren't Brian May's either, he used 6 that got removed
when his set finished.

dbii

ooopps those were VOX AC30's not VAXAC30's...been working in IM too long..

dbiii

    
    
    
    
    Jeez, I was all set to check out the EPP on those VAXAC30s, too...
    
    
    

    Really, I was all set to call DIAL!
    ;')

    Buck,
         I've heard his tone being better like in sweet child o' mine,I
    thought his tone was roolin' but on the new Michael Jackson song,it
    sux.......big time!
    
    
                                                 staynz

Best Slash tones of the night were when he put down his lespaulz and played
a BC RIch mockingbird, bright red it was and it sounded excellant, especially
compared to the paulz....

dbii who gets a re-listen tomorrow..

Well I saw them again Tuesday  night, Brian May  was once again awesome. G&R
were good, damn good, but not as good IMHO as they were last week in Portland.

Interesting show though...

My 7 year old daughter was pretty cool too, Brian May has two female backup 
singers and young Mary says "are those girls up there?" I said yeah, she says
"Hmm, I'm quite interested in what they're doing". Look out world another female
backup singer in the making...

dbii

    I need to clear my conscience. Mr. Slash does a pretty decent job on the
    Hendrix tribute. I'da not thunk it twas him.

    There, I feel better now.

    (but 81 guitars?)

    Do this Hendrix tribute has an album out there?
    
    

>    Do this Hendrix tribute has an album out there?

    Yes but I don't know the title. It might be "Stone Free". Anyone?

    --Ron

    Yes, it is "Stone Free"....I saw it on CD today at lunch.  Big pic of
    Jimi's face on the front........
    
    sd

    Thanks guys!!

    re: Slash's guitars
    
    I believe all his Les Paul's are the "Custom" model.  Some are from the
    Gibson Custom Shop, so you can't just buy one exactly like it (notably
    the one with the quilted maple top).  I've read several interviews with
    him and he says he's real picky about the guitars he plays and will
    try a bunch of them before he finds one that's "just right".
    
    Greg