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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

2156.0. "BeNdInG StRiNgS" by CHEFS::DALLISON (Stick it to ya!) Wed Mar 27 1991 11:33

    
    
    I've *always* had problems with one of the most important techniques in
    guitar playing - bending.
    
    I've been listening a lot to tapes of my solo's with the band and
    they're okay except for the string bending/vibrato. The style of guitar
    I play needs a very wide vibrato at a reasonable but not very fast speed
    (similar to Malmsteen or a slower Zakk Wylde vibrato) and its really 
    frustrating when I louse it up.
    
    I don't know if its an issue of hand strength as my fingers seem pretty
    strong when it comes to legato runs or wide stretches.
    
    I find it such a hassle to practise the technique. I've tried stuff
    like play a short run and then apply as wide vibrato as I can and I
    haven't had a great deal of success. As most of the time it sounds
    pretty naff I either loose enthusiasm for the technique or resort to
    the Gary Moore 'whammy bar' vibrato.
    
    Anybody ever have a similar predicament ? Whats the cure ?
    
    -Tony (who thinks this really is the one aspect of his playing that is
           letting him down).
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2156.1So does Lynch, most of the timeCAVLRY::BUCKSherman, set the wayback mach to 1928!Wed Mar 27 1991 12:141
    Malmsteen uses his bar for most of his vibrato work
2156.2tough nutsTOOK::SUDAMALiving is easy with eyes closed...Wed Mar 27 1991 14:1715
    I've been playing electric for almost 25 years, and I've *never* been
    satisfied with my vibrato. It's not that I can't play vibrato, I can.
    I'm also pretty versatile in vibrato, and it is pretty natural for me,
    because I've practiced it a lot. But to me, vibrato is one of the most
    distinctive things in a player's style. And I always feel like I
    could improve on it when I see other players who have good vibrato
    technique.
    
    By the way, I don't have a whammy bar, and have never liked them. I
    realize I'm in the minority among electric guitarists in this regard,
    but to me the concepts of "vibrato" and "whammy bar" are totally
    orthogonal. I know what can be done by a good player with a whammy bar,
    but comparing it to a really good use of vibrato makes me want to puke.
    
    - Ram
2156.3RAVEN1::JERRYWHITEReal men don't need whammies !Wed Mar 27 1991 15:129
    I think your vibrato is your "signature" ... I hate mine, it's WAY to
    fast (IMO), but I've tried and I can't seem to change it.
    
    It's ok though, I've heard people say "... your vibrato sounds like
    so_and_so ...", or "... I could tell that was your lead without
    watching the band ..", due to my vibrato ... live with it.  8^)
    
    
    Scary
2156.4Practice, Practice, PracticeTRAM::BBOLDTWed Mar 27 1991 15:468
    I'm kind of lucky.  I am left handed but forced myself to play right
    handed.  This gives me a lot of strength in my left hand.  However, my
    picking really suffers.  All I can say is keep working on it.  I know
    that my picking has improved dramatically since I started doing picking
    exercises every day.  By the way, check out John Sykes' vibrato, one of
    the best I've heard.
    
    Byron
2156.5Don't "puke" all over me pleaseMR4DEC::SAKELARISWed Mar 27 1991 16:5211
    Re .2
    
    >> I know what can be done by a good player with a whammy bar,
    >> but comparing it to a really good use of vibrato makes me want to puke.
    
    
    I gotta disagree, Ram.  One thing I do quite often that I think is
    an interesting effect is to bend a note and hold it (allow it to
    sustain), and then wiggle the bar to add vibrato to the raised note. 
    
    
2156.6CAVLRY::BUCKSherman, set the wayback mach to 1928!Wed Mar 27 1991 17:132
    I agree with the sakman...good vib arm work, ya dcan;'t tell the dif
    bettwen hand and bar vib!
2156.7At the top of a bend ???KERNEL::FLOWERSI have a burning ambition...Wed Mar 27 1991 17:2211
    
    Is everybody talking about the same thing? I don't reckon my vibrato is
    that bad and I don't find it very difficult to do (either up-down or
    side to side).........unless you are trying to do it at the top of a
    bend....(listen to Gilmour).....whats the trick?? Is it a matter of
    finger strength???  
    
    (Is this what you asked Tony?)
    
    J.
    
2156.8PROTO2::KMCDONOUGHSet Kids/NosickWed Mar 27 1991 17:5426
    
    All IMH(usually uninformed)O.......8-)
    
    Bending the string and vibrato are actually two different beasts. 
    
    Bending just means fretting a note and then pushing or pulling the
    string to match the note you really wanted, which is usually a whole
    step or more up. Kepping it at that matched note is the tricky part.
    
    Vibrato is shaking the string, from a little to a lot, to get the note
    to sustain and take on a certain richness. Without letting it go sharp
    or flat.  Tough to describe.
    
    When you add vibrato to a bend, you first bend the note to match the
    note you really want, and then shake the string enough to sustain it
    without letting it go sharp or flat.
    
    To improve your technique, first master bending a note to match your
    desired note and holding it *exactly*. In your struggle to do this you
    will probably develop a reasonable vibrato.  8-)
    
    Kevin
 
    
    
    
2156.9GSRC::COOPERMajor MIDI Rack Puke (tm)Wed Mar 27 1991 19:4712
    I definately prefer the whammy bar.  
    
    I've tried for years to master the "bent string+vibrato ala Clapton"
    technique.  No can do... Best that I've heard was from Steve 'Bulldawg'
    Dandrea.  he was real good at it.  He told me it took him years to
    perfect.  He was a  big Clapton fan...
    
    I bend the string the desired note, and grab some whammy.  It's
    easier by far, and sounds just as good, IMHO...although even that 
    takes a pretty fine-line approach...  It's really easy to get outta
    control...Especially on those Ibanez "Edge" tails...  It's too tempting
    to go nutz with that thing ala Vernon Reid.
2156.10But it gives me a grin sometimesGOES11::G_HOUSEStereotype, monotype, blood type...Wed Mar 27 1991 20:146
>    It's too tempting to go nutz with that thing ala Vernon Reid.
    
    Me and Vernon, we be mates.  Most people wanna take the whammy bar off
    my guitar after hearing me play...
                                      
    Greg                    
2156.11CHEFS::DALLISONStick it to ya!Thu Mar 28 1991 09:5117
    
    I never realised that Lynch used the arm! Anyway, there are things that
    can be donr with an arm that can't be done without. For example, if you
    vibrate a string with you fingers, you can only raise the pitch (unless
    your vibrating a bent string), With a whammy you can vibrate the pitch
    higher and lower - it has a much more 'sad' quality.
    
    So, any good exercises about, for bending notes ?
    
    Re: Jason,
    
    Its easy to do if you want a subtle effect, but if you want a wide
    sweeping vibrato (like a whole tone or more) then it turns more into
    fast string bends rather than a swivel-hand-from-side-to-side type 
    technique.
    
    -Tony 
2156.12... I love the way he SQUEALSELWOOD::HERTZBERGHistory: Love It or Leave It!Thu Mar 28 1991 17:0713
2156.13GERBIL::PELKEYWith a third less polyunsaturatesMon Apr 01 1991 16:4218
    There are two classics that are (I think) masters at vibrato.
    
    George Lynch, and Steve Via.
    To my ears, these two dudes got great vibrato.
    
    Most of the time, I think, subconciously, we just go too fast, kind
    sounds 'rippley' instead of a vibrato.  when I've listened to
    tapes, and tried to concentrate on listening to vibrato, I think
    most of the problem I had was speed...   I've simply slowed
    down my finger movement, and it's seemed to help.  Took some dicsipline
    to control it throught out, but eventually, I was able to get what
    I wanted, and be happier with it.
    
    I feel I've got a decent bend/vibrato combination,..
    
    Whammys... well, I personally don't lay on mine enough to make
    it part of the vibrato thing,, so I just couldn't see using
    a whammy instead of a finger for vibrato...
2156.14More on vibratoGSRC::COOPERMajor MIDI Rack Puke (tm)Mon Apr 01 1991 17:415
    I think Whammy bars actually make a "better" vibrato than fingers,
    but it just doesn't "flow" or sound as natural.  "wild" vibratos
    sound cool in some applications, me thinks.
    
    jc
2156.15Nah I don't like the sound...BEEZER::FLOWERSI have a burning ambition...Tue Apr 02 1991 06:3411
    
    I'm sorry to say that I tried using my whammy for vibrato and it just
    doesn't cut it for me....sounds too.....err.....well it just sounds
    wrong!  
    
    I still can't get the vibrato at the top of a bend tho', the closest
    I've come is to bend a note, hold it, and then sort of shake the guitar 
    up and down....sounds ok once you have worked out where the balance
    point of the guitar is.
    
    J.
2156.16Whats the argument?WENDYS::BRIGGSRThey use computers don't they?Tue Apr 02 1991 06:4920
    
    Apart from the question of whether vibrato can be produced more
    effectively using fingers or tremelo arm I really can see no
    relationship between the two 'mechanisms'. They are as alike as chalk
    and cheese.
    
    As was rightly said earlier, you can bend a note (or chord even) down
    using a tremelo arm and I happen to think this is where its best used.
    To hit a long sustained note and just lower the pitch a fraction, not
    even a semi tone, produces a lovely tension which is dying to be
    resolved to the correct pitch. Quite often this effect is seen by the
    layman as 'playing out of tune'. The same people also think someone
    singing harmony is out of tune!
    
    As for speed of vibrato, I'd always thought that *ideally* you should be
    aiming for some multiple of the speed of the music. So, a 120 beats/min
    piece would require a vibrato of 120 pitch changes (or 240, 480 or 360
    in triplet time) etc. Similar to the use of delay effects.
    
    Richard
2156.17Clarification?BEEZER::FLOWERSI have a burning ambition...Tue Apr 02 1991 07:3010
    
    Yo Richard....no argument.....all I was saying was that taking a note
    to the top of a bend and then using your fingers to apply vibrato seems
    impossible to do (I know, practice,practice,practice) someone suggested
    using the whammy and I admit it works but it is just not the
    sound/effect that I am after. I agree with the chalk and cheese
    statement tho' they sound *totally* different........or maybe they
    don't and I just can't do either one properly!!!
    
    J.
2156.18how does it soundCOPCLU::SANDGRENLhep! I'm trpdd ina P11D*PTue Apr 02 1991 08:1513
	Well, Jaydot, what actually happens when you try to bend a 
	note and make vibrato on top of it?

	If nothing happens, you'll need more fingerstrength, until
	you can bend the thin E to the upper edge of the fretboard
	and then make vibrato there ;^)...

	To me, there's no RIGHT or WRONG way to make vibrato...it's
	a matter of style and/or like or dislike.

	Poul

2156.19Squiffy!BEEZER::FLOWERSI have a burning ambition...Tue Apr 02 1991 08:4310
    
    
    What happens.....well if I am bending up and then try to apply vibrato
    it all goes a bit squiffy and sounds like a cat with its tail on fire.
    If I bend down (using the E,A or D strings) I can get it sounding
    passable.
    
    More strength you reckon? and I figured I had strong fingers!!!
    
    J.
2156.20a new styleCOPCLU::SANDGRENLhep! I'm trpdd ina P11D*PTue Apr 02 1991 09:4714
    
   >What happens.....well if I am bending up and then try to apply vibrato
   >it all goes a bit squiffy and sounds like a cat with its tail on fire.
    
	Could be an advantage! Well, depends on your choise of music!

	Seriously, the only way to get a good bending/vibrato tech-
	nique, is practice, practice, practice. It's only a matter
	of patience...try to stay on the same note and bend, bend,
	vibrate, vibrate...also applying a good deal of aggression
	helps. Be violant, man! ;^)

	Poul

2156.21You will vibrate damn you!BEEZER::FLOWERSI have a burning ambition...Wed Apr 03 1991 07:1020
    
    Thanks Poul,
    
    I *can* do it!!!! It still needs loads of practice to get it a little
    more fluid but using some aggression really did the trick.....I don't
    no why I didn't 'get mad' at it before!!
    
    As an aside I think there must be something spooky about notes, I write
    in and complain that after weeks of pratice I can't do it and then a
    week later....whoosh.....it happens. Has anyone else discovered that
    they practice for ages and then maybe even get disheartend and stop
    praticing it (I did with the intro to Sweet child o' mine) and then a
    couple of days later have another go and it happens?? Makes me wonder
    if my fingers are teasing me........."Ok guys let him practice this
    lick for a week but I want one of you to randomly do your own thing,
    when he gives up remember what he wanted you to do and next time he
    tries do it right and blow his mind...heh,heh,heh."
    
    J :-) (Happy finger wiggler)
    
2156.22CHEFS::DALLISONStick it to ya!Wed Apr 03 1991 09:354
    
    Well, I've put in more practise and my stringbending and vibrato is
    coming along. I guess its just one of those things that you're never
    really satisfied with.
2156.23Interesting observationGOES11::G_HOUSEStereotype, monotype, blood type...Thu Apr 04 1991 00:498
    re: .21
    
    You are not alone!  I often find that I practice something for long
    periods of time with relatively little success and then one day it
    starts happening for some reason.  I can't explain why or how, but a
    lot of times it's really quick like that.
    
    Greg
2156.24playing difficultiesMASALA::IGOLDIEThe Incendiary PreacherThu Apr 04 1991 01:067
    I get that too but I thought it was just me,sometimes I practice for
    hours and sound terrible then there is the times I could just pick up
    a guitar and sound like Eddie Van Halen.
    
    
    
                                      Staynz
2156.25Not exactly what I mentGOES11::G_HOUSEStereotype, monotype, blood type...Thu Apr 04 1991 01:1312
>    I get that too but I thought it was just me,sometimes I practice for
>    hours and sound terrible then there is the times I could just pick up
>    a guitar and sound like Eddie Van Halen.
    
    But dude, that just sounds like inconsistancy to me.  I'm like that too
    (pretty severely sometimes).  What I'm talking about is that sudden
    inexplainable quantum leap in learning.  You know where you practice
    something for a long time and never quite get it and then one day you
    go to play it and it comes out just right and then you can play it
    right consistantly after that?
    
    Greg (who needs a lotta leaps right now)                               
2156.26my 2 bitsGIDDAY::KNIGHTPThu Apr 04 1991 04:2817
    This Bending of a note and then applyingvibrato at the top of
    the bend is one of the major ways of telling guitar player
    styles apart.  Two good exponants of this are Gilmour and
    Knophler.  Gilmour bends the not and then applies avibrato 
    by raising the tremolo arm up and down slightly and relatively
    slowly (this is done only above the centre point of the tremolo's
    swing).  Knophler does it just by use of his left hand and what's
    interesting is what someone else mentioned in this note is that
    he is left handed so that gives him greater strength in his neck hand.
    
    RE 9  I can't think of anythng I've heard or seen Clapton play
    where he has bent a note up a tone or so and then applied vibrato.
    I've only seen him say bend the g string 5th fret up a tone and then
    play 2nd string 3rd fret flat and vibrato that by sort of realeasing
    the neck from the palm of his hand and quikly shaking it up and down.
    
    					P.K.
2156.27P.S.GIDDAY::KNIGHTPThu Apr 04 1991 04:301
    Whats the differance between a whammy bar and a tremolo bar is??????
2156.28Same ThingWASTED::tomgLeo Fender - R.I.P.Thu Apr 04 1991 10:450
2156.29CHEFS::DALLISONStick it to ya!Thu Apr 04 1991 11:228
    
    Re: Claptons vibrato
    
    Check out the beginning to the Phil Collins song "I wish it would
    rain". Clapton bends the A (14th fret) on the G string up a whole 
    tone a applys vibrato. Its subtle but its there.
    
    -Tony
2156.30NEEPS::IRVINEyoung enough not to choose itThu Apr 04 1991 11:295
    But is he applying vibrato in the sence of push/pull on the string
    or is he simply (watch for the technical term here 8*) waggling
    his finger in the fret with the note bent up ?
    
    Bonzo
2156.31couldn't resistCOPCLU::SANDGRENLhep! I'm trpdd ina P11D*PThu Apr 04 1991 12:007
    
    	I think he's definitely doing the first (push/pull). The waggle
    	is something you do with a woman, I think....;^) Excuse me fe-
    	male readers...
    
    	Poul
    
2156.32WELCLU::GREENBIn a euphoric stateThu Apr 04 1991 12:1017
    I can't say I know that track too well, but I don't find bending
    strings in pitch too hard, and managing a vibrato while bent by
    waggling, as it has been put so succinctly, is pretty easy too. Mind
    you, my bends tend to be on slower runs in a more bluesy vein, on
    faster (well, faster for me, anyway) runs I tend not to use string
    bends. 
    
    To me, accurate(ish) string bending is just a matter of getting the
    feel of the guitar and knowing how far to pull the string across. As I
    say, I tend to bend only on slower runs, so there is usually time for a
    bit of adjustment to the right pitch, which can also masquerade as
    playing with extreme emotion (oblig winkie).
    
    BTW, by 'waggling', I take it to mean across the fretboard rather than
    the previously-mentioned 'shake'.
    
    Bob
2156.33DNEAST::BOTTOM_DAVIDvictim of unix...Thu Apr 04 1991 18:0013
I've found that I get a great deal more control of bends/vibrato if I use
more than one finger to do it...

So anything you'd usse your ring finger to bend, use bnoth the ring and the
middle. This takes some getting used to but has worked well for me for the 
last ten years or so. Also for first finger vibratos, I use the BB King 
approach (although I developed it independantly, and noticed he did it the same
way when watching a tv show). I actually pivot my first finger on the edge of
the neck and push/pull the string using that leverage point, rather than trying
to use a steady up/down motion. This requires you to use a rolling motion of
your wrist to do. It's difficult to explain but easy to demo in person.

dbii
2156.34GSRC::COOPERMajor MIDI Rack Puke (tm)Thu Apr 04 1991 18:066
    Sheeesh, I'm not even a Clapton fan (I think thats well documented
    here) but I can think of a LOT of tracks where he bends and vibratos.
    Check out (to name a few), Bell Bottom Blues (one of my faves), Badge,
    Sunshine and a lot of the junk he did with Cream.
    
    jc
2156.35Strange is what it is!GOES11::G_HOUSEStereotype, monotype, blood type...Thu Apr 04 1991 20:067
    I noticed Clapton's vibrato technique when I was watching him on some
    TV show once and thought that was the wierdest thing I'd ever seen!  It
    seems to work well for him, but I've tried to do it a couple of times
    and can't even come close to making it sound right.  I've never seen
    anyone that used a technique like his.
    
    Greg
2156.36I dunno????GIDDAY::KNIGHTPFri Apr 05 1991 01:117
    I am going to go home and check out my Clapton videos and see if I can
    see him bending up say a tone and then applying vibrato. Because of his
    vibrato technique it seems impossible, because when you watch him do it
    the only part of his hand in constant contact with the neck is the
    finger playing the note.
    
    								P.K.
2156.37NEEPS::IRVINEyoung enough not to choose itFri Apr 05 1991 07:417
    What I mean by `waggling' or is it shake is bending the string to
    the required pitch, then using a lateral motion.  More like a
    `Classical' guitarists vibrato... 
    
    Works fer me!
    
    Bonzo
2156.38wagglers unitePAKORA::IGOLDIEThe Incendiary PreacherFri Apr 05 1991 07:488
    I used to be a waggler but my guitar tutor went mental and told me
    to try another way ie the tip of the finger on the string and gently
    rocking your hand back and forth(does this make sense?)I found it
    easier with practice,but its like almost everything with guitarist,it
    purely up to the player.
    
    
                                           Staynz
2156.39NEEPS::IRVINEyoung enough not to choose itFri Apr 05 1991 11:294
    Thats Exactly what I meant by waggling, rocking the tip of the finger
    laterally in the fret!
    
    Bonzo 8*)
2156.40WELCLU::GREENBIn a euphoric stateFri Apr 05 1991 11:587
    If anyone would like to compile a glossary of terms used to describe
    different finger/hand movements used in string-bending and/or vibrato,
    or combinations thereof, and enter it here, I would be very grateful.
    
    I'd do it myself, but I'm completely confused.
    
    Bob
2156.41I'll have a go at some...BEEZER::FLOWERSI have a burning ambition...Fri Apr 05 1991 12:5417
    
    
    I think waggling refers to the 'Classical' vibrato technique where-by 
    you pick a note and add vibrato by shaking (waggling) your finger
    from side to side (side to side = closer to the bridge, closer to the
    nut)
    
    The other technique is what I would call 'Rock style' vibrato where
    you pick a note and add vibrato by very slightly bending the string up
    and down......this is the one I apply when I am doing bends with added
    vibrato.
    
    The other way I get vibrato (which is an odd sounding very subtle one)
    is where I push harder on the string causing it to stretch. I think
    this one will only work if you have fairly high frets,
    
    J
2156.42CHEFS::DALLISONStick it to ya!Fri Apr 05 1991 14:0612
    
    >> The other technique is what I would call 'Rock style' vibrato where
    >> you pick a note and add vibrato by very slightly bending the string up
    >> and down......this is the one I apply when I am doing bends with added
    >> vibrato.
    
    This is what I've been having problems with. A gentle semi tone vibrato
    is easy, but if you try and do a full tone or two full tone then it
    gets more tricky. Its like playing ten fast whole tone or two whole
    tone bends - one after the other.
    
    -Tony
2156.43I learned it from EricLEDS::ORSITripe my shortsMon Apr 08 1991 11:2226
    	I used to be a Clapton freak waaaaaayyy back when he was
    	with John Mayall and one of the first things I learned
    	was his vibrato technique. He seems to do do three things, 
    	vibrato-wise; 1) using his index finger, pushes the
    	string up one-half step, then vibratos, 2) using his middle
    	finger, pushes the string up one-half step, then vibratos,
    	and 3) using both middle and ring fingers, pushes either
    	one-half step or a full step, then vibratos. Whichever way,
    	his first motion is to push the the string up (or sideways
    	across the fretboard, however you look at it) to start the
    	vibrato. Most of the Brit guitar players from 60's do it that
    	way. Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck, Mick Taylor, Ariel Bender, Martin
    	Barre, etc., all sound like they had the same guitar teacher.
    	Some find it easier to pull down first, but if you learn
    	it that way, it might be tougher to bend-to-a-note-then-
    	vibrato, and still make it sound smooth. I can't imagine
    	doing it that way, simply because it seems naturally easier
    	to push the string up and away, than pulling it down. When
    	asked about his vibrato technique, Clapton said that the
    	action on his guitar is fairly high so that he can get behind
    	the string and push it, using his wrist as the pivot.
    	   Leslie West from Mountain took Claptons' technique to another
    	level. It's still the smoothest vibrato I've ever heard.

    	Neal
2156.44NEEPS::IRVINEyoung enough not to choose itTue Apr 09 1991 10:5310
2156.45Looks like he's j*rking off!! 8^)CHEFS::DALLISONStick it to ya!Tue Apr 09 1991 17:578
    
    Check out another technique George Lynch uses :-
    
    Sometimes when he plays a note, instead of raising the string up or
    down he frantically slides up the neck a whole tone and back again then
    repeats the process (very quickly).
    
    Sounds pretty wild but you'll slice your fingers up trying it!!
2156.46Raised by hand....thats me !TRUCKS::LITTENTue May 07 1991 12:3367
Folks,

	I have read all 45 replies with increasing interest and would like to 
offer the following opinions on the way I get/do my vibrato........
                    --------

1. Non bent string vibrato. 

Very subtle technique.....hand off the neck apart from the 
tip of your finger. Use the mass of your hand to oscillate (nut to bridge 
direction).   

Heavier vibrato....two ways dependant upon the finger being used. First finger
normally pivot from the wrist. Second finger use together with thumb base as a 
pivot(generally).  Third finger either pivot as before or use the finger only 
to get the vibrato. Little pinky, support with third finger  and pivot.

2. Bent string vibrato. Nearly always use one finger plus a support finger for 
strength. I don't seem to have too much trouble with bent string vibrato in 
fact it is the method I most often use, even when I may not need to. 

For folks who are having trouble either in the vibrato or pitch control...bend 
up a tone on the second/third string and let it ring against the next higher 
string (ie bend third string seventh fret up against second string fifth 
fret).  This will give you a reference note to test eveness of pitch and 
vibrato. Practice and record yourself doing this.

Try first to ONLY bend the string. This will get your pitch on track. Try 
bending up to pitch, holding it for half second, then bringing the vibrato in. 
Doing it this way in stages will stop you using wide vibrato to cover up poor 
pitch bending. It will get your "ear" in, increase your confidence in getting 
the pitch, and allow you to concentrate on the "bent vibrato".  A great 
practice for bending only, came from the Larry Carlton video. He recommends 
playing a straight major scale by bending up every other note. Start slow and 
build up. 

3. General (beginners corner ).

Good vibrato comes (apart from practice) from an understanding 
that you are trying to generate an even change in string pitch and to make 
that change close to sinesoidial as possible. So "seeing" it as a "bend one 
way..bend the other way" process will lead you to generate a "triangular" 
pitch change patten (this is difficult to explain !!). The resultant vibrato 
sounds "jerky".

The best way to start to feel this is to use the Mass of your hand to vibrate
rather than try to force your hand/wrist muscles into an even action. To try 
and demonstrate this: rotate your wrist backwards and forwards once a second 
so that you are palm down/palm up. This at this speed you are using concious 
muscle control. Now speed up so you are doing maybe five or ten times a 
second. Notice two things. 1. your muscles are relaxed and your hand mass is 
helping to sustain and control the movement. 2. your are no longer 
concentrating on going left/right etc, only on the action itself. 

To get your guitar vibrato going and improving, "think" the above way and let 
the mass of your hand/wrist achieve the tone and smoothness of the vibrato.

End of Sermon !

PS. By far the best piece of information on vibrato I have seen is on the 
Robin Ford and Eric Johnson videos. These guys show and demonstrate their 
great technique in clarity and go into the different ways of achieving it. 


Dave


2156.47!@%%%#$ Floyd Rose's.BEEZER::FLOWERSI have a burning ambition...Tue May 07 1991 13:049
    
    
    Re .-1
    
    Some good stuff there, only one small nit, don't try the next higher
    string reference note idea if you have a full floating trem (ala Floyd
    Rose) coz it won't work.
    
    J.
2156.48Trems and multistring bends are a painGOES11::G_HOUSEMarshall Stack PukeTue May 07 1991 15:179
    Yeah, the tremelo will pull both strings out of tune.  Happens with any
    trem with a light pull, not just a Floyd style, since the bend causes
    string tension to go up pulling the tremelo down.
    
    Another idea for practicing bends is to play the note you're going to
    bend up to immediately before doing the band, so you get it in your
    head.
    
    Greg
2156.49A case of the Bends (or lack of)...KEEGAN::TURNERWed Jul 07 1993 09:4731
    Well, after a few experimental "dir/tit=xxx" commands, I decided that
    this was the best place to enter my question.
    
    Last week, I bought a secondhand Jap Fender Telecaster which I'm
    delighted with. It plays every bit as well as the U.S.A. models that
    I've tried recently and I got it at a dirt cheap price. I put new strings on
    the guitar, tuned it up patiently, checked the intonation, etc. Everything 
    seemed fine; in fact, although the tuners are standard Fender issue (i.e. 
    not locking tuners), they seem to do an excellent job - better than the
    tuners on any of my previous guitars.
    
    There is, however, one snag. Although the action is as low as I'd ever
    want it, I'm having great difficulty with bending the strings. The G in
    particular is murder; it's as much as I can do to bend it more than a
    semitone! The strings have been on for a few days now, so it can't be a
    question of "new string tension". And before you ask, I always use very 
    light strings (.008) as I play mainly blues/R&B, but at the moment, Chuck 
    Berry/B.B. King riffs are out of the question! I even tried lowering the 
    action more than I'm used to, but it made little or no difference.
    
    So to sum up, I'm in the strange situation of having a guitar which
    seems to stay perfectly in tune despite having extra light strings. On
    the other hand, it's giving enormous problems in the bending department 
    (exactly the reason why people tend to prefer light strings!). 
    
    Last night, my new band were due to practice for the first time, but the 
    rehearsal room was double booked and so we didn't get to play. As things 
    stand, it probably saved me some embarassment, but I've got to get this 
    problem sorted out. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
    
    Dom 
2156.50Time to... PUMP IT UP!EARRTH::ABATELLIYou're not from around here are you?Wed Jul 07 1993 10:4917
    RE: .49
    
    Sounds like you need to build up some strength in your hands. Having
    used .010 and .011's for a long time I would not be able to play .008's
    today, but we all need to start somewhere. I would suggest buying
    either a hand gripper device at your local music store, or going down
    to your local sports store and buying a hand gripper (you'll find these
    over by the body building equipment. Both have spring tension resistance 
    although I'd ,lean more towards the musicians gripper at your local music 
    store ($9.99). Once your hand strength is built up, bending strings
    will be effortless...   ofcourse you may need to go to a heavier string
    gauge if you over bend them. Oh well, like that's the worse that can
    happen?   ;^)
    
    Good luck,
    		Fred
                 
2156.51Finish on the frets? POWDML::DAGGWed Jul 07 1993 11:009
    
    When Richard Stanley checked my guitar, he said that
    I might want to have the frets polished or something
    if I was going to get into alot of bending.  Apparently
    the finish on the frets of my guitar wasn't great,
    thus preventing easy string bending. 
    
    Dave
    
2156.52Yeah but...EARRTH::ABATELLIYou're not from around here are you?Wed Jul 07 1993 17:4224
2156.53POWDML::BUCKLEYSleeping Beauty Land Theme ParkWed Jul 07 1993 18:0027
2156.54But I'm 6ft 4in, 182lb!!KEEGAN::TURNERThu Jul 08 1993 10:1240
2156.55NACAD::HERTZBERGHistory: Love it or Leave it!Thu Jul 08 1993 13:356
    Dom, your story just doesn't compute.  Maybe you got a G-string with
    the guage way out of whack?  Also, where on the neck are you bending
    when you say you can only get a semitone?  The easiest place to bend
    is at the 12th fret.  Move off in either direction and it gets harder
    and harder.  I use .010 guage sets and can easily bend a whole tone at
    the 7th fret and a minor third at the 12th fret on the third string.
2156.56check the tremRICKS::CALCAGNIsubmit to FredThu Jul 08 1993 13:4117
    Dom, could you be a little clearer about the problem?  Are you having
    trouble physically moving the string or is it just that you aren't
    getting enough pitch raise?  Does it seem like you're getting too
    little pitch raise for the distance you bend?
    
    The reason I ask is, I've had this problem on some Gibson semi-hollows
    equipped with trapeze tailpieces.  In these cases, I seemed to be pushing
    the strings really far, but could barely get the note up a full step.
    What seemed to be happening (my best guess) was the tailpiece was deforming
    under the added tension of the bend, sort of following the string along
    and making it harder to actually raise the pitch.  You always have this
    problem to some degree with Strats, but usually isn't that bad. 
    However, perhaps on your inexpensive Strat the trem mechanism is a bit
    looser and sloppier?  Something to check anyway; if so, it could
    probably be fixed with an adjustment and/or heavier springs.
    
    /rick
2156.57It's a Tele, not a Strat.KEEGAN::TURNERThu Jul 08 1993 13:5722
    re: .55
    
    It doesn't make too much sense to me either! For the record, I'm
    talking about bending at round about the 12th fret. The dud (wrong
    gauge) string is a possibility, but I would have thought that I could
    get at least a semitone bend out of any string, even a piece of barbed
    wire!
    
    re: .56
    You know, that might just have something to do with it (apologies for
    my vagueness in outlining the problem). Actually, the guitar's a
    Telecaster (no trem), not a Strat, but I've noticed that the bridge
    saddles aren't as stable as they might be. Having said that, the
    strings in general do seem incredibly "stiff", for want of a better
    word...almost as though the guitar was tuned 3/4 tones too high.
    
    Anyway, I'll bear in mind your suggestions when I have a look at it
    tonight. My situation isn't helped by the fact that I don't know any
    guitar repair men personally (I'm living in Milan, Italy), nor do I
    know any guitar experts in general who could have a look at it. 
    
    Dom  
2156.58fender blenderRICKS::CALCAGNIsubmit to FredThu Jul 08 1993 14:101
    oops, I misread... must be the heat :-)
2156.59A few suggestionsGOES11::G_HOUSESon of SpamThu Jul 08 1993 14:5635
    Dom, 
    
    To add to what Rick was asking about the problem, are you able to move
    the string as far as you want?  If not, are maybe your fingers hanging
    up on the fretboard?  I'm not sure which model Tele you have, but some
    of them have sticky lacquer finishes on the fretboards which makes
    bending strings more difficult (especially if you like your action
    low).  Another issue may be the small (7inch) fretboard radius used on
    some of those instruments, makes bending more difficult.
    
    What kind of a guitar were you using before you got the Tele?  The
    scale length and neck angle also contribute to the string tension.  For
    instance, the same gauge strings will feel much more flexable on a Les
    Paul then they will on a Strat due to these differences.
    
    Even though Tele's usually have really stable necks, you should
    probably insure that your truss rod adjustment is correct, as this will
    improve the overall playability of the instrument (there are several
    excellent notes in here on how to do it, I won't repeat the
    instructions).  You might also want to get a new set of strings and
    polish up the frets when you take the old ones off to put on the new
    ones.  I like to use 0000 gauge steel wool to polish my frets, makes
    'em nice and smooth (be sure to mask off the fretboard with some tape
    though 'cause it'll scratch it up).
    
    Oh yeah, not to sound stupid or anything, but have you verified that
    you *haven't* tuned the guitar too high?  If you're using an electronic
    tuner, maybe it's screwed up or has a low battery or something.  I've
    had tuners tell me some odd things when the battery gets low,
    especially the older ones (and the low quality ones).
    
    This is an interesting problem, I don't think I've ever heard of
    anything like this before.  Keep us posted on what happens!
    
    Greg
2156.60Egg on my face!KEEGAN::TURNERFri Jul 09 1993 09:1134
    re: .59
    
    >This is an interesting problem, I don't think I've ever heard of
    >anything like this before.  Keep us posted on what happens!
    
    Well, you're all going to have a good laugh at this one (that's if you
    don't lynch me first!). I've solved the "problem" and I still can't
    believe that it fooled me for 3 whole days!
    
    The guitar originally had some pretty old strings on it, so one of the
    first things I did was to change them. I put on a set of Schaller
    .008s, but I happened to break the G string as I was tuning up.
    Fortunately, I had a spare set of Schallers (same gauge) so I just
    dipped into the bag and took what I thought was a G string. 
    
    Well, I'm sure you've guessed it now! Call it new guitar fever, but
    what I took wasn't a G string, it was a nickle wound D string. I've
    sometimes used wounded G strings in the past so the change just
    didn't hit me. And there you have it; I guess I'm just too dense to
    notice the difference between a smooth .15 and a nickel wound .24!
    Still, that's one mistake I won't be making in future...
    
    To be fair, although I've been playing for 12 years I still pay more
    attention to the music than the tools (although I'm gradually becoming
    more picky). The same goes for my hi-fi; I'm much fussier about *what* I
    listen to than what I play it on.
    
    Still, the important thing is the Tele plays fine. No buzzes, stays in
    tune, good intonation, nice neck...and faith in my string-bending
    capabilities has benn restored!
    
    Many thanks to all...and apologies for wasting your time!
    
    Dom 
2156.61RICKS::CALCAGNIspeeding towards our sun, on a party runFri Jul 09 1993 11:333
    yet another reason NOT to change your strings!
    
    :-)
2156.62Good deal, nothing seriousGOES11::G_HOUSESon of SpamFri Jul 09 1993 20:313
    Another mystery solved!
    
    Greg