Conference napalm::guitar

    sorry can't help you with the headless horseman, but surfin with
    the alien is out on cd, i got mine at the coop in harvard square.
    
                                                      smokin' bass,
    
                                                         dan . . .

    Just heard that Satriani is coming to Phoenix on March 8!
    
    Mike

    Yes, and Denver March 10th.  Tix go on sale tomorrow...
    
    Greg

    Who's touring with him?  Is there an opening act?
    
    Mike

    For you Co. noters, tix went on sale this morning.  I lucked out and
    was first in line and got Row F, center section!  I'm totally hyped!
    
    Greg

                              At the Orpheum
                              On March 30th
                              Tickets on sale
                              10:00 a.m. Today                
                              Feb. 26, 1990

    I recently purchased "Not of this Earth" and "Surfin' with the Alien"
    and have worn out the tapes since then.  This guy is phenomenal!!!

    I'm going to have to breakdown and buy one of his tab books to figure
    out what he's doing.

    Mike

    
    John Mover is playing for Satriani again..
                                                 Make up your mind!~
    
                                                             mArK
    

    DYHIW - Satriani sold out so fast here that I didn't get a chance to
            buy my tickets.
    
    DYLIW - my sister the rock photographer has press passes for the show
            and promised to make a few glossy posters of Satch in action.
            I'll get the proofs too that the magazine doesn't use.
    
    Mike

    So what's the secret to the Satriani tone?  Marshalls?  DiMarzios? 
    SR&D?
    
    Mike_who's_curious

    The secret is Joe Satriani at one end of the guitar.
    
    8^)    (about half serious)
    
    More seriously, talk to Buck about trying to get that elusive tone, I
    know he worked on it a lot.  Satriani uses a TON of processing gear! 
    Somewhere at home, I have a tape of him on MTV and he had his rig there
    with him and he explained some of it.  There's two basic paths, one
    through a Marshall, one through a JC-120.  Then a rack-full-o-fun with
    a bunch of stuff that I don't remember.  He used Chandler Tube Drivers
    for one thing, SPX-90s (I think), and aural exciters.
    
    Greg

    Greg, you'll have to take notes tomorrow night when he visits :-)
    
    I found it amusing when I heard he financed his first album with his
    credit card.  To think he couldn't get a record deal with that album!
    
    Mike

    Now, if I could just get him to come up to my house for a couple of
    years and show me how to *play*...
    
    8^)
    
    BTW, there's an interview with Joe Satriani and Steve Vai in this
    months "Guitar World".  I usually don't read that magazine, but bought
    it for this interview.  Reasonably interesting, mostly talking about
    their younger days and such, not much about playing.
    
    Greg

    Satriani usually uses two 100wt Marshall tops in stereo for his
    dirty/lead tone...I've seen him with everything from Jubilee's to old
    plexiglass models.  His Marshalls are processed thru a rack of stuff,
    basically containing a stereo chorus, delay, aural exiciter, and reverb
    (other stuff like a mixer, etc.).  He has a wha in line as well.  His
    clean sound is sometimes processed with an SR&D sustainor and chorus
    unit into JC120s, other times he takes a different approach to a clean
    tone.  Basically, you need a heavy eq, tons of gain, chorus and slight
    delay, with a touch of reverb to get the satriani sound.

And an Aural Exciter...

;)

I spoke with a good friend of mine who is current at GIT in LA,  Satrania 
taught a short class (lecture actually) on signal processing a couple of 
weeks ago...he loved it...I'll try to get more details form him...

dbii

    Thanks for the "tone" info!
    
    So how was the concert Greg?
    
    Mike

    The concert was outstanding!  If any of you that enjoy Satrianis music
    get a chance to go see him, by ALL means, DO IT!
    
    I'd never heard of the band that opened up for him, but they were HOT
    too.  They were called something like "Steven Salas(sp?) Color Code, a
    three piece, hard rock.  Apparently Salas toured with Rod Stewart
    sometime recently from a comment he made before one of the songs.  I
    was impressed...
    
    Satriani's show was excellent!  He played a lot of songs without a lot
    of chatter.  Seemed to me that he played most of them note-for-note
    like the record (which disappointed me slightly, I like to hear a
    little more improv).  Stu Hamm was absolutely amazing on the bass and
    Johnathon Mover added a lot to the songs on the drums (also had an
    incredible kit...).  Hamm and Mover both took solos, Satriani didn't. 
    I liked Hamms a LOT.  He was quite impressive, but Movers solo didn't
    do much for me.
    
    As far as Satriani's equipment, our seats were very close to the stage
    so I could see most of his stuff pretty clearly.  He had two Marshall
    half stacks, one looked to be an older head (maybe early 70s, just a
    guess), the other was one of the silver Jubliees.
    
    In his rack was:
    
    Korg DT-1 Pro (tuner)
    Furman power conditioner
    TC Electronics 2240 Parametric EQ (great BIG thing)
    SDR-1000+ (Rane?)  ! Stayed on the same setting all night
    DBX160X Compressor
    
    The monitors were in the way, so I couldn't see anything on the floor,
    but I presume from some of the sounds that there was at least a wah
    there.  No idea about anything else.  Seemed to me that he really only
    used about 2-3 primary sounds for the whole show anyway.
    
    He played one of three Ibanez RG440s.  One looked like the one from all
    the mag photos that he scribbled all over with a marker.  I don't
    remember the second one much, and the third was just black.
    
    Stu Hamm played his Kubinki Factor basses through two Fender Dual Bass
    amps into Hartke cabinets (2 4x10s over 2 1x15s).  There were also what
    appeared to be two stomp boxes affixed into his rack, couldn't tell
    what they were.
    
    Greg
                                                               

    Thanks Greg!  I figured he didn't talk much after listening to his live
    tape.  Guys like him let their guitar do the talking!
    
    Mike

	DeeDee Ramone's performance last Friday -

	Mosrite Ventures guitar into a JTM45 fronting 3 JCM800s driving
	lots and lots and lots of 12" speakers.


	Excellent tone.

    -1 ?!?!?
    
    Dee Dee Ramone is the (now Ex-)bassist for the Ramones.  Dee Dee has
    left the band to persue a rap career!  The new bassist is C. Jay
    Ramone.  Now, Jonny ramone is the guitarist, and the rig he had at the
    CITI gig was:  Mosrite guitars (one stock, one with both pickups
    removed and a single coil inserted at the bridge) into a splitter box
    which fed two JCM 800 series 2203 amp tops, each feeding 2 4x12 speaker
    cabs (on each side of the stage).  There was a JTM45 and an additional
    JCM 800 up there, but neither one was in use.  

    Re: Satch's tone
    
    Buck also had a description in note 1177.1.  Also, there's a SR&D ad in
    the new Guitar World where Joe says what he used to get the following
    tones:
    
    "1 SUSTAINOR channel switching preamp, 2 INSTRUMENT EQ's (for pre & post
    distortion EQ), an analog STEREO CHORUS, STEREO ECHO, and a MIDI
    OCTOPUS to control the system.
    
    I've used the the modules to get the clearest tones for 'Not of This
    Earth', 'The Headless Horseman', 'Ice 9', and 'Midnight'.  Using the
    distortion mode (of the SUSTAINOR) with a crybaby wah-wah in front, I
    created the tone for 'Circles'..."  [end of ad]
    
    "Circles" is one of my fav Satch tunes.  That solo really rocks!  I've
    worn out side 2 with "Circles" & "Lords of Karma"!
    
    Mike
    
    

	For the equipment run-down and the line up info. Seen 6 shows in
	14 years and still can't tell who's who.

	ccb_Humbled_at_ZK

    So does Satch really sing on his latest release, or does he talk? 
    How is it compared to the the other 2 albums?
    
    Mike

    
    I really like the "Flying in a Blue Dream" cd.  The singing is ok,
    nothing to write home about, but I liked it.  Satch has a strange 
    way of managing to remain upbeat through all his eerie tones, rhythms,
    and melodies.  I know that don't make sense, but you have to hear it to 
    understand.  I forget the title, but the one that goes, "get on my bike
    and ride", has a metal sound that I like - reminds me of some early
    VH.  Also, there's a really sad type of song ("I believe"), which
    brings you down, but then lifts you up with a tempo change and the
    "I believe" lyrics.  
    
    fwiw,
    -pat
    
    p.s.  I also like Surfin', but none of the others I've heard yet.
    

    He sings on a few songs on "Flying in a Blue Dream".  I've seen where
    other noters didn't care for his voice much, but I kind of like it. 
    Like the difference between "Not of This Earth" and "Surfing...", this
    album is different in it's own right.  I like them all equally.
    
    If you enjoyed the other albums, chances are you'll enjoy this one too. 
    
    Greg

    To his credit, I think that each Satriani album has had a very clearly
    unique approach.
    
    None of the albums sound the same to me.
    
    After the extreme and significant success of "Surfing", it took 
    real balls to do an album like "Flying".  It's clear he wasn't
    going to become a "formula" player.
    
    	db

    
    	I like all (4) of his albums.
    	He has a music book out for "Surfing With the Alien" that has
    	every song in it note-for-note and in tab. Its great!
    	I figured out "Midnight" through it. Its really not *as*
    	hard as it seems. He uses both hands on the neck - using
    	2 fingers from each hand to hammer on.
    	   Like I said, its not *too* hard, but when you play it,
    	it sounds AND looks really impressive.
    	   One of my favorite songs on "Flying..." is "The Phone Call"
    	The words are pretty funny.If you get a chance to hear it,
    	pay close attention to the words(or just read them from the
    	tape)
    	   I cant wait to see the guy in Boston Friday!
    
    				Steve   8^) 
    	   
    	

	I bought Surfing w/the Alien and after the 3rd listen I put it
	away. Good guitar work but too much like cotton candy. I'll
	come back around to it in a decade or so maybe. Back to my Billy
	Bragg fest already in session.....

    That's funny, I like Surfin' best of the 3 (don't have the new one
    yet).
    
    Is he sold out in Boston?  He sold out in a week in Phoenix.
    
    Where did you find the tab books?  Local store or mail order?
    
    Mike

    
    	Hi Mike.
    
    	Ya. He's sold out in Boston. But there's always someway to
    	get tickets.
    	
    	I bought that book (I believe) in a Strawberries record store.
    	You could almost definately find it there. Or you could try
    	a place like (if your in the area) Daddy's Junky Music or
    	E.U. Wurlitzer. Those 2 places always have a lot a sheet music.
    	I haven't checked lately but I wonder if there are any other
    	books in print for his other albums.Anyone know?
    
    						Steve

    Does he have a book out for "Not of This Earth"?  I want to learn
    "Rubina" and "Driving at Night" in addition to the title song.
    
    Speaking of the title song, I was trying to figure out the opening
    chord sequence that has the "clean" sound.  Are those 4 chords just
    variations of a Eb?  I thought Eb-Ebm-Eb-? sounded close.  Can't figure
    out the 4th chord.
    
    Mike

    FWIW it's worth, I'm gonna be there tonite (Friday at the Orpheum).
    
    I'm wearing a deep purple plaid shirt and black jeans.  I have
    black hair and (thick) tortoise-shell aviator frame glasses.  I think I'm
    in like the 8th row or so.
    
    If you happen to spot me, introduce yourself.
    
    	db

    Geez,
    
    I came out of that show thinking that there was going to be tons
    of reviews.
    
    Frankly, it was one of the best concerts I've ever been too.  Satch
    moved up several notches on my favorites list just on the basis of
    what I saw Friday night.
    
    He and the band were just incredible.  There was IMHO an awful warm-up
    band Stevie Salas and Color Code.  Stevie's guitar was so loud that
    any nuance of his performance that might have been there just got
    blasted to death by the sheer volume.
    
    It made me concerned that Satch would make the same mistake.
    
    No way - the volume was significantly lower and his guitar cut through
    very clearly.  Without going into detail, Satch was the exact opposite
    of the  majority of today's guitarists (IMHO) such as Salas.  His
    playing ran the gamut of fields from emotional to bursting, slow to
    fast, clean to dirty.
    
    The difference between Satch and the rest of these guys is Satch is
    an ARTIST.  His playing is amazing but it's always clear that it's
    just a vehicle that allows him to express himself.  I just don't
    get that impression from so many of todays players.  They seem just
    out there to burn.
    
    And I should mention that even the lighting was spectacular for this
    show.  Very imaginative, often brilliantly colorful.  The stage
    was almost like a mystical place.
    
    Like the opening, everything goes black - a thin spiral of intense
    blue light shines down directly on the stage and we see Satch's
    face in semi-silouette for the opening of "Flying in a Blue Dream".
    
    I've know seen two concerts, both superlative, and if you ask me
    albums don't come much better than the last two studio albums
    "Surfing" and "Flying".   I really have to go back and listen a
    bit more to "Not of This Earth".
    
    I hate making "lists" but I think Satch is very close to being right
    up there with Morse and Carlton on the list of players who consistently
    inspire me.
    
    If you live in a town where Satriani is coming: DO NOT MISS THIS
    CONCERT!!!!
    
    	db

    What's the opening chord sequence for "Not of this Earth" (the clean
    sound)?
    
    Thanks,
    Mike

    
    	The bass at the beginning of "Driving at Night" is unbeliev-
    	ably deep ... I'll have to be careful so I don't ruin my new
    	speakers.  I'm pretty sure I've bottomed the woofers out a
    	couple times.
    
    							GTI
    

    
    Anyone catch Satch on "Unplugged"?  Awesome stuff!  Couldn't believe 
    what he did on accoustic!  Does anyone know if "Waterfall" is a cover
    tune?  Satch having the host of the show playing guitar and singing
    on that song really shows his great attitude!  I'd love to meet this
    guy!
    
    And yeas, Greg, I got it on video.  Most of SRV's performance
    too(little bit got cut 8( ) which was also awesome!
    
    J-dottypoo

    My VCR had a memory lapse last night and didn't record it !  I'm *sure*
    I had it set right .... shame my VCR doesn't understand DCL ...
    
    
    
    				Scary
    
    	(who was bummin' when he got home and the tape was still blank !)

    
    Hey, Scary!  Multiple sadness, dude!  Let me know if ya wanna copy!
    
    J.

    Was it really good enough to justify a long distance video ?  How long
    was the show, 1 hour maybe ?
    
    
    				Scary

    re: .38
    
    Yeah, I watched that eMpTV special with Satriani on acoustic last
    night, but got bored and fell asleep!!  He did play some nice stuff
    on the Banjo, however!
    
    SRV's version of the acoustic wasn't too shabby; but I think these
    two guys aught to stick to electricity!
    
    Just an opinion,
    
    Mike

    I caught it and really enjoyed it.  My favorite part was the
    6-string banjo stuff he did which is an improvisation based on
    a tune on "Flying" and "I Believe".  SRV was also hot.
    
    I'm really glad that MTV is doing experimental things like this.
    I only recently learned all the neat stuff that VH-1 puts on late
    at night (real jazz, fusion, etc.)
    
    	db

    Anyone ever buy/play one of those Deering 6 string banjos?  They look
    like they'd be fun for certain situations.
    
    Mike

    re: .44
    
    I used to consider the Banjo as a fingerpickin' instrument.  After
    hearing some of Satch's chords and chord phrasing on the banjo he
    was using in the video, however, I'd like to consider picking one
    up sometime.
    
    Mike

    re: .38
    
    I had it on tape already.  The show this week was a rebroadcast...
    
    Greg

    - does Satch have any music videos out?  does MTV show them?  I have to
      see this guy play, I can't believe some of what I'm hearing.
    
    - I finally listened to the "Flying..." release all the way through. 
      Anyone figure out the title track?  I hear he tunes down to a C on
      the low E string for this tune.  I tried a 1 4 5 7 Bb (what exact
      chord is 1 4 5 7 anyway?) barre chord from the 6th fret and it sounds 
      a little like the opening chords.
    
    - He's not a bad singer IMHO.  If you can't sing better than Mick
      Jagger, you've big problems anyway! ;-)
    
    BTW - Anyone know how much those electric harmonicas cost?
    
    Mike

    > - does Satch have any music videos out?  does MTV show them?  I have to
    >   see this guy play, I can't believe some of what I'm hearing.
    
    At least three, "Always with Me, Always with You", "Satch Boogie", and
    "Big Bad Moon".  They were shown a little bit when the songs were first
    out/popular, but aren't shown much at all now.
    
    > BTW - Anyone know how much those electric harmonicas cost?
    
    No such beast that I'm aware of, you use a mike.
    
    I didn't understand what you were trying to say with your musical
    notation thing, sorry.
    
    Greg

>    > BTW - Anyone know how much those electric harmonicas cost?
>    No such beast that I'm aware of, you use a mike.
    
    I've seen a guy using one with a cable running right up into it.  Some
    people call them harps or blues harps, but they sound like harmonicas
    to me ;-)
    
    Mike

   Those are special harp microphones.  It's a big plastic tube with a mic 
   inside, and you just snap the harp into it.

   Who knows though?  These days I wouldn't be surprised if someone came up
   with a true "electric harmonica".  Probably MIDI controllable, too.  :-)

   -- Sam

>      I finally listened to the "Flying..." release all the way through. 
>      Anyone figure out the title track?  I hear he tunes down to a C on
>      the low E string for this tune.  I tried a 1 4 5 7 Bb (what exact
>      chord is 1 4 5 7 anyway?) barre chord from the 6th fret and it sounds 
>      a little like the opening chords.
    
    I checked my chord dictionary during lunch.  The major scale notes 1 4
    5 7 make up a 7sus chord.  In the example above, I was playing what I
    THOUGHT was a Bb7sus chord.  Pictures work better (barred at the 6th 
    fret):
    
    6 7 8 9
    x-------
    x-------
    x-2-----
    x-----4-
    x---3---
    x-------
    
    Turns out this isn't the chord at all (that's what I get for doing
    things in my head ;-)).  This is a 1 3 5# (notes of scale) chord.  What 
    happens to a Bb when you sharp the 5 note?  A Bb would be just 1 3 5.
    I know you flat the 3 for a minor, flat the 3 and 5 for a m7.
    
    Moving right along, anyone know what Satch is playing in the opening of
    the "Flying..." title track?
    
    Mike
    

    Is that the Rockman Sustainor that enables Satch to hold a note for so
    long on the "Flying.." title track?
    
    Mike

    When I saw him he got that by inducing feedback by standing at a
    particular spot near his Marshall.  No doubt some EQ and compression
    would help, I'm sure he uses both.
    
    FWIW, I didn't see a Rockman Sustainor in his rack at that show.  (see
    my concert review note for what I *did* see in his rack).  I was close
    enough to be able to identify everything there, so unless it was
    offstage or behind something, it wasn't there.
    
    Greg

    I swear "Flying..." starts off with a C7sus E form barre chord (8th
    fret).
    
    Am I the only one trying to play Satch songs? ;-)

    The new GFTPM has the transcription to "Mystical Potato Head Groove
    Thing" (bass lines too of course).
    
    Mike

    Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but there's a book
    available that transcribes the whole of Flying.... I think it's a GFTPM
    book, but I wouldn't swear to it.
    
    Nick

    a question on the tune "Headless" from "Flying...".  Has Steve Vai
    taught Satch how to make his guitar talk or is that a voice dubbed
    through a talk box and dubbed over the guitar?  There's also some of
    this in sections of "Big Bad Moon".
    
    Mike

    Sounded like a talk box to me...

Mike,

Sounds like an awesome show! Did Eric Johnson open up for him, as rumored??

alan

>Sounds like an awesome show! Did Eric Johnson open up for him, as rumored??
    
    No, but I'm not disappointed!  Satch was "on" last night and the
    setting wouldn't have done Eric justice, IMO.
    
    Another thing (besides cupping his hands over the bridge):  Ya know the 
    little fill-in riff on "Mystical Potato Head Groove Thing" that he
    plays between the verses?  When he played it, he brought his right hand
    over the top of his left hand and did some sort of barre (it looked like
    a barre) while playing the riff with his left hand.  Anyone know for
    sure what he does here?
    
    I guessed right on the sound he gets toward the end of "Surfin'...". 
    Those are volume swells he's doing.  Looked cool though!
    
    Mike

>When I saw the roadies cleaning up afterwards, I saw on the floor in front
>of his monitors a tube screamer, a wah pedal, and a channel switcher.
    
    Do you mean an Ibanez Tube Screamer stomp box, or the larger AC powered
    tube driver, like a Chandler or TubeWorks model?  (hint: you'd be able
    to tell by the size of the box, the tube screamer is standard stomp
    box size and the tube drivers are about 3-4 times larger)  
    
>One thing I noticed that I couldn't quite figure out.  He cups the guitar
>with both hands around the bridge to get his patented screeches and growls.
>What is he doing to get his?
    
    He's probaby using a couple of fingers of his right hand to pluck a
    couple of strings right behind his thumb close to the bridge giving a
    pair of high harmonics and modulating the tremelo arm with his left
    hand.  I saw him demonstrate this on a TV show a year or so ago.
    
    Definately sounds like a great show!  He was excellent when I saw him
    too.  I hope to catch him again someday!
    
    Greg

>    Do you mean an Ibanez Tube Screamer stomp box, or the larger AC powered
    
    yeah it was a stomp box.
    
    I'm going to have to get a hold of his notation books.  After I buy a
    new Ibanez of course ;-)  
    
    Mike

>    Another thing (besides cupping his hands over the bridge):  Ya know the 
>    little fill-in riff on "Mystical Potato Head Groove Thing" that he
>    plays between the verses?  When he played it, he brought his right hand
>    over the top of his left hand and did some sort of barre (it looked like
>    a barre) while playing the riff with his left hand.  Anyone know for
>    sure what he does here?
    
    I was close enough to see exactly what he was playing at my show and he
    was damping the strings with his right hand while he hammered the lick
    on with his left hand.  
    
    Steve Jensen transcribed the lick itself awhile back, I'm sure he
    wouldn't mind sharing it if you're interested.
    
    Greg

    Greg, thanks for the tip.  I sent him mail.
    
    BTW - My sister is a professional photographer and does work for a
    local rock magazine ("Razor's Edge").  She had a press pass for the
    concert.  I just talked to her at work (she works in a custom photo 
    lab by day) and she said there's some cool shots of Satch so far.  
    
    Mike

For those besides Mike who are interested in the tapped lick in Mystical
Potatoe Head Grove Thing:


Straight 16th notes:
                                                 E   
||--------------12-----------------------12-|----------------------------------|
||-----------10----10-----------------10----|----------------------------------|
||.--------7----------7-------------7-------|----------------------------------|
||.-----11--------------11-------11---------|----------------------------------|
||----9--------------------9---9------------|----------------------------------|
||--7------------------------7--------------|----------------------------------|

                                                                 E
|-----------------16----------------------------14-|-------------------------||
|--------------14----14----------------------12----|-------------------------||
|-----------11----------11----------------11-------|------------------------.||
|--------14----------------14----------14----------|------------------------.||
|-----12----------------------12----12-------------|-------------------------||
|--10----------------------------10----------------|-------------------------||

Enjoy!

BTW: Can anybody tap this?  And if so, how do you get it to come out with any
volume?  I watched Satch do this (same concert as Greg), but I can't get the
volume.  I end up sweep picking it, which sounds real, real close.  But, I 
want to play it just like Joe! :)

steve

    How do you control feedback?  I was trying to do what Satch does on the
    intro to "Flying...".  I had the tone down, but couldn't alter the
    pitch the way he does during the intro.
    
    Mike

    Re: last few
    
    I've finally arrived at a point where I can alter the feedback pitch
    somewhat, especially at high volumes.  All you have to do is change the
    distance from the amp itself.  The whammy bar also helps too.
    
    Mike

    Here is an example from Satch's column on playing the 7 diatonic modes
    consecutively, in 3 octaves, using the pitch-axis method (off one
    root, marked with *).  He recommends playing them in the order as shown, 
    ascending and descending, without stopping, in all keys.  He also says he 
    varies the fingerings on purpose, to keep us on our toes ;-).   The entire
    fretboard (up to 13th fret) is shown.  The numbers are what finger to
    use.
    
    Major/Ionian     Dorian       Phrygian      Lydian       Mixolydian
    ===========   ===========   ===========   ===========   ===========
    | 1 1 | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |  *1 | | | | |
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   
    *22 | | | |  *1 | | | | |  *1 1 | | | |  *1 | | | | |   | | | | | |   
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------
    | | 1 1 | |   | | | | | |   2 | | | | |   | 1 1 1 | |   1 1 | | | |   
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   
    4 4*2 2 1 |   1 1 | | | |   | 1*1 1 | |   2 2*2 | | |   | | | | | |   
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   
    | | | | | |   2 | | | | |   4 2 2 | 1 1   | | | 1 | |   3 1 1 | | |   
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   
    | | 4 4 1 1   | 1 1 1 | |   | | | 3 | |   4 4 4 2 1 1   4 2 | | | |   
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------
    | | | |*2 2   4 2 2 | | |   | 4 4 4*3 2   | | | |*2 |   | | 1 1 | |
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   
    | | | | | |   | | | 1 | |   | | | | 4 |   | | | 4 | 3   |*4 2 2 1 |   
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   
    | | | | 4 4   |*4 4 2 1 1   | | | | | 4   | | | | 4 4   | | | | | |   
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   
    | | | | | |   | | | | 2 |   | | | | | 1   | | | | | |   | | 4*4 1 1   
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   
    | | | | | 1   | | |*4 | 1   | | | | | |   | | | | | 1   | | | | 2 2   
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   
    | | | | | |   | | | | 4 2   | | | | | 2   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   
    | | | | | 3   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | 3   | | | | 4*4
    -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   -----------   
    | | | | |*4   | | | | |*4   | | | | |*4   | | | | |*4   
    
    
    Minor/Aeolian   Locrian
    ===========   ===========  
    *1| | | | |  *1 1 1 | | |  
    -----------   -----------  
    | | | | | |   2 2 | | | |   
    -----------   -----------  
    1 1 | | | |   | |*1 1 | |   
    -----------   -----------  
    2 2 | | | |   4 4 2 2 1 1   
    -----------   -----------  
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   
    -----------   -----------  
    4 4 | | | |   | | 4 4*3 3   
    -----------   -----------  
    | | | | | |   | | | | 4 4   
    -----------   -----------  
    |*1 1 1 | |   | | | | | |   
    -----------   -----------  
    | | | | 1 1   | | | | | 1   
    -----------   -----------  
    | 3 3*2 | |   | | | | | |   
    -----------   -----------  
    | 4 4 | 2 2   | | | | | 2   
    -----------   -----------  
    | | | 4 | |   | | | | | |   
    -----------   -----------  
    | | | | 4*4   | | | | |*4   

    Looks like Satch has fulfilled his 3 year contract with GFTPM and the
    "Guitar Secrets" column.  I was disappointed, but his replacement for
    the column is George Lynch.
    
    Mike

    -1
    
    yeah, and what does George do for his first column?  REPOST a
    "secret lick" he had already told us about in a former interview!
    Ultra-cheese!!

    I was going over "Always with me, always with you" the other day and
    got to a section of the song that I couldn't figure out.
    
    They say it is 2 guitars (one with Nashville tuning), but the 
    transcriber wrote the fingerings for standard tuning.  It occurs on the
    3rd page of the notation and goes like this:
                               |
    B----------12------------------------8--------
    G-----14---4-----14--------------11--0--11----
    D-12--7-----------7---12------9--4-------4--9-
    A-5--------------------5------2-------------2-
    E---------------------------0-----------------
    
    ...and repeats a similar riff for a couple more measures.  How the heck
    do you play something like this?  A harmonizer?
    
    Mike

    
    Its probably a harmoniser or overdubbed.

I wouldn't worry about it live.  These are just octaves and are probably buried
under lots of other stuff.  Live, I'd play single notes (and if I had a
harmonizer, I'd use that).  However, if you must play the octaves as written
then change the fingering because these are obviously silly as written (for one
guitar player).  There's probably a couple of ways to approach it.  One way
would be to take advantage of open strings that you find in the first half of
your sample (the second half is harder):

    E----------7-------------------------------
    B-----10---0---10-------------7---8--7-----
    G-7---7---------7---7------4------0------4-
    D-0-----------------0---------4------4-----
    A--------------------------2-------------2-
    E-----------------------0------------------

If I haven't made a mistake, then this should sound the same as your sample and
be much easier for one guitar.  Careful that the open strings don't ring too
long.

steve

    I bought a couple Satriani books last night so I could start learning a
    few of his songs.  I learned a couple things just in the hour I glanced
    thru them!
    
    "Flying in a Blue Dream" is in an open F tuning.  Low to high is 
    C F C F A C.  I'm trying to transpose this to standard tuning.
    Should I just count the number of steps he's raised it on each string
    and move that many steps down.  For example, on the bass string there
    are 4 steps from E to C.  Can I just move all notes on that string down
    4 steps?
    
    Mike

>    "Flying in a Blue Dream" is in an open F tuning.  
    
    Well, when I saw him last year, he either didn't play it in an open F
    tuning, or played EVERYTHING that night in an open F, because that was
    the song he opened up with and he didn't retune or change guitars until
    the encore...
    
    Greg

    I think you're confused - I have that book and while my memory is
    very vague, my recollection is that the only thing that uses a
    non-standard tuning is the chords, which are played by a sequencer
    in concert, and which (I'm sure) can be approximated pretty well
    with a regular tuning.
    
    But like I said, I'm not realy sure about this.  It's been awhile since
    I looked at that one.

    Re: -1
    
    Sorry, I think you're right.  I just looked again and only the chords
    were marked with an * with a reference to the alternate tuning.
    
    Anyway, I'll see if I can transpose the chords.
    
    Thanks,
    Mike

    Well I've transposed 2 versions of the opening chords to "Flying..." 
    onto standard tuning.  One is tough to play, the other is fairly easy.
    Keep in mind though, we have to omit the low C that his bass string is
    tuned to.  Not much we can do about that without some sort of pitch
    shifter or some similar gizmo.
    
    Here's the tough version.  It is quite a stretch and I had a very hard
    time playing it, especially when coming back to it after playing the
    chord after it.
    
    x                   x
    ===========         ===========
    | | | | | |         | | | | | |
    | | | | | |         | | | | | |
    | 1 | | | 1         | 1 | | | 1
    | | | | | |         | | | | | |
    | | 2 | | |         | | 2 3 4 |
    | | | | | |         | | | | | |
    | | | 3 4 |         | | | | | |
    
    So then I became smarter and decided I needed to take advantage of some
    more open strings.  This is much easier to play and probably close
    enough to get you by.  Only the triad section is strummed as a chord.
    
    x o                 x o       o
    ===========         ===========
    | | | | | |         | | | | | |
    | | 2 | | |         | | 1 2 3 |
    | | | | | |         | | | | | |  this one is your standard A major
    | | | 4 4 |         | | | | | |  open chord.
    
    Mike

    Not only easier to play, but the voicing of the second version sounds
    more like what I remember the song to sound like (haven't listened to
    it in awhile).
    
    Greg

    Thanks!  God, I need a job where I can bring my guitar to work too! ;-)

    Anyone have videos of Satch performing on tape (i.e., MTV videos) that 
    I could copy?  drop me a line at the above address.
    
    Mike

    Did this guy drop off the face of the earth ?  Anyone have any news ? 
    Any new material ?
    
    Scary

    I heard he was playing in that "guitar gods" (or whatever it's called)
    concert in Seville Spain that's supposed to be on Pay Per View soon. 
    There was another note on it in here somewhere.
    
    I've been wondering about another album too!
    
    Greg

    You can hear him on a couple tunes on Alice Cooper's latest album. 
    "Feed My Frankenstein" is a first ever recording of Vai and him
    together.
    
    Mike

    So what's it sound like?

    I think it's pretty good.  They trade off in the solo section.  Elvira
    contributes a quote in the outro too.
    
    Mike

    Reprinted without permission from The Guitar Magazine:
    
    Just where has that follow-up to Flying in a Blue Dream got to? Joe
    Satriani can't deny that it's taking longer than he planned.
    
    'I only wanted to work to a certain point and then I really wanted to
    take some time off, he says in a rehearsal studio in hometown San
    Francisco. 'So I just got to about April, things weren't really as
    finished as I wanted them to be so I just sort of put the record on
    hold for a while. And I'm writing a new batch of material that will be
    equally as difficult to form into a record, you know.'
    
    So our next chance to witness Satriani's axe acrobatics will be at
    Seville, then he heads straight to France to play  on the next solo
    album by Mick Jagger, with whom Joe toured twice in 1988.'I've been
    checking in with him while I've been travelling around on tour, and
    finally all the pieces are sort of fitting together. As far as I know,
    it's myself and Jimmy Ripp on guitar. Mick will probably play a little
    guitar as well. And then I've got this other reocrd to do with a band
    that has yet to be formed, it's for Epic Records, and it'll also come
    out in 92. So I might wind up with two or three records out next year.'
    
    In Seville, Joe gets to meet up with heroes like Les Paul - for whom he
    reveals he's written a song 'which I hope will wind up on a record
    that's due out in a year or so' - and as the new kid on the stage
    compared to most of the Legends, he can't wait for showtime.
    
    'Everyone I knopw is looking forward to playing with everybody else.
    THere'll be a great spirit hanging over the whole concert, and you've
    got so many fantastic people coming to play, I can't imagine anything
    but a profoundly fantastic concert.'

    >And then I've got this other record to do with a band
    >that has yet to be formed, it's for Epic Records, and it'll also come
    >out in 92. 
    
    There goes the old rock and roll outlaw idea....
    
    						Brian

    I saw Satch on the Guitar Legends concert and he tore up "Bad Moon"
    with Brian May on rhythm!  Then Brian May and Vai did some other 
    stuff which was cranked up but didn't sound as good as Satch.
    Satch has more soul and a better groove.  BTW, this concert from
    Sevilla was quite a hoot.  I'm only half way thru it, but there
    are some real gems on it.  Among many of them was Stanley Clark and
    Larry Coryell doing "School Daze".  

    So you have it on tape? ;-)

    I've been dying for some video footage of Satch!

    Anyone willing to make copies of the Seville concert?

    YUeah, I'd love to see this, but we don't get pay-per-view where I
    live, so I couldn't even buy it...
    
    Greg

    db, I could do it, but are there copyright laws protecting it?

    I just heard on the radio that Satch is in the studio and plans on a
    February-March timeframe for the new release!

    I bought the "Flying In a Blue Dream" CD last week and although I'm
    much more on the "Blues Side" I'm impressed. I don't like all the songs
    and effects but they're sure is some hot stuff on the record. My
    favourite is "One Big Rush", a real rocker with a nice groove!
    
    
    sascha

    By the way: Is there anybody out there who could explain me the rhythm
    playing on "One Big Rush". I mean I figured out the solo (can't play
    it that fast but I know where the tones are) but there's no way I could
    play that rhythm...could not even find the chords.....
    
    
    sascha

    Re: One Big Rush
    
    Which rhythm guitar part you want?  The first rhythm guitar part (right
    after the pick slide intro) goes like this (triads!):
    
               measure
                 bar
     Em  D/E Em D              A5                       Bm7        Em
    
    E------------|----------------|----------------|-----------------
    B-8--7--8----|----8--7--------|----------------|-----------------
    G-9--7--9----|-7--7--7--7--9--|-9--9--7--9-----|-9--7----7--7s/9-
    D-9--7--9----|-7--7--7--7--7--|-7--7--7--7-----|-7--7----7--7s/9-
    A---------5--|-5--------5--0--|-0-----------0--|-----------------
    E------------|----------------|----------------|-------7-------0-
    
           D/E Em D              A5                       Bm7        Em
    
    E----7---------|-----------------|------------------|-----------------
    B----8--7--8---|-7--8--7-----10--|-10-------8-------|-10-10-10-7--7---
    G----9--7--9---|-7--7--7--7--9---|-9--9--7--9-------|-7--7--7--7--7---
    D----9--7--8---|-7--7--7--7--7---|-7--7--7--7--7--7-|----------7--7---
    A------------5-|-5--------5--0---|-0-----------0----|---------------7-
    E-0-0----------|-----------------|------------------|---------------0-

    Thanks!
    will try this tonight!
    
    sascha

    Hi there !
    
    After I all also found out about Satch. I like very much The Forgotten
    Part 2 on Flying In A Blue Dream. Has anyone got the transcription ?
    Mainly the middle part (the rest is easy) ?
    
    	thanks
    
    		Richard

    Satch has a new album coming called "The Extremest".  I haven't heard
    the release date yet.
    
    Mike

Article 3067 of alt.guitar:
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From: cbolton@csd475a.erim.org (Chris Bolton)
Newsgroups: alt.guitar
Subject: New Satriani Album
Message-ID: <CBOLTON.92Apr27013226@csd475a.erim.org>
Date: 27 Apr 92 06:32:26 GMT

  From the info I have recieved, Joe Satriani will be releasing a new
album called "The Extremist" on Jun 23rd.  I got this info from rec.
music.info and I'm not sure if it's accurate, but I thought it might 
be of interest here.  Can anyone confirm this? (Confirm that the album 
is going to be realeased then, that is, NOT confirm that it is of 
interest.)

			-Chris Bolton
			 cbolton@csd475a.erim.org

    The official release (per the Guitar World ads) is July 21st for "The
    Extremist".  This will be 100% instrumental (yes!).
    
    If you're a Satch fan, you should pick up the new issue of Guitar
    World.  Some of the info and tips he conveys are what started setting
    my playing off a couple years ago.
    
    On fretboard knowledge:
    
    "The key to fretboard fluency is learning all your scales up and down
    each string...  Practicing scales this way helps you see that they're
    everywhere on the neck..."
    
    My favorite quote:
    
    "The whole point of practicing and becoming a great musician - if I
    ever get there - is to simply say 'the notes are at my disposal.'  The
    hard part is being creative.  All this other stuff, this mechanical
    stuff, you just learn it, practice it and know it - boom, it's done. 
    And then you don't worry about it.  The priority is playing good music
    and enjoying it.  And making sure they're all part of one thing."
    
    Finally (end of interview, on his Spinal Tap contribution):
    
    GW: Did you try to parody yourself?
    Satch: It was difficult not to, because of the song.  It keeps getting
    faster and faster, and modulating in minor keys.  Later, I thought,
    Lukather was a genius for coming up with the concept of not allowing me
    to hear what the other guys had done.  He's an amazing guitar player
    too.  The other day he played something from the new Toto album that
    just floored me - a real rocking tune with great playing.  I thanked
    him for restoring my faith.  'Cause all I really want is to walk into a
    record store and buy a record by some guitar player that will totally
    destroy me.
    GW: Do you often have that experience?
    Satch: No.
    
    {case closed ;-)}
    
    Mike

    I've heard "War" and "Summer Song" and loved them both.  My reservation
    is in for Tuesday!  All the locals say "The Extremist" is smokin'
    
    Mike

   I heard "Summer Song" the other day and thought it sounded like a direct
   ripoff of "Surfin' ..." or some other "song" he does.  Wasn't real
   impressed with the originality angle.

   -- Sam

Just picked up `The Extremist' ... fresh off the UPS truck !  The initial 
review ...

10 tracks, weighing in at 47:55 ...

Just my opinion now, I expect a lot of folks to take this effort in different 
ways.  I *loved* NOTW and SWTA, didn't care too much for FIABD ... and this 
smells a lot (to me) like SWTA and NOTW.

I'll grade each cut from 1 to 10, 10 being the highest ...


1 - FRIENDS  (3:27):  It has a sort of `anthem' feel to it.  Makes ya wanna 
	stand up and salute *something*.  
	RATING - 6

2 - THE EXTREMIST  (3:42):  The sitar's back, as is the harmonica !  Pretty 
	solid tune.  
	RATING - 7

3 - WAR  (5:46):  MERCY !  Pounding mystical riff.  By far, the beast on 
	this CD.  Great breaks, etc, blah, blah.  
	RATING - 11

4 - CRYIN'  (5:42):  Very pretty little ditty.  If Satch never admitted to 
	be a closet Beck fan, then this tune would surely blow his cover.
	RATING - 8

5 - RUBINA'S BLUE SKY HAPPINESS  (6:10):  Acoustic drivel.  Don't slam me, 
	but it sounds like the `highland' stuff that Steve Morse likes to 
	do.  Made me wanna eat a bar of Irish Spring.  It mixes pretty 
	acoustic work with slow driving electric accompanied passages.
	RATING - 5

6 - SUMMER SONG  (4:52):  Roll the top down.  Load up the cooler with 
	Corona.  Put on a condom, things might get ugly.  Very reminiscent
	if `Surfing ...'.  
	RATING - 8

7 - TEARS IN THE RAIN  (1:16):  Classical piece.  Very well executed.  For
	those of you planning on dubbing this to a 90 minute cassette, then
	this is the tune to omit.
	RATING - 7

8 - WHY  (4:45):  Real funky, but it probably has the hottest lead passages
	of the whole CD.
	RATING - 8

9 - MOTORCYCLE DRIVER  (4:56):  Still got the top down ?  Well put it up 
	and roll up the windows.  This tune cranks.  It has a VanHalen_ish
	groove to it, and it's definitely in the wind.  I'd put this as the 
	#2 burner on the CD.
	RATING - 8

10 - NEW BLUES  (6:55):  Kinda hard to get into this one.  It's slow and 
	drifty.  I was losing interest, but about half way through (2:20), 
	it transforms into a rock solid groove.  It unfortunately doesn't 
	stay there very long.
	RATING - 7


Jerry

>Just picked up `The Extremist' ... fresh off the UPS truck !  The initial 
>review ...
    
    Me too, but different truck.  Grabbed my copy right after class.

>Just my opinion now, I expect a lot of folks to take this effort in different 
>ways.  I *loved* NOTW and SWTA, didn't care too much for FIABD ... and this 
>smells a lot (to me) like SWTA and NOTW.
    
    Well I *LOVED* them all!   I previously heard "War" and "Summer Song"
    and knew this was gonna be good.  The Bissonette brothers make a great
    backing section.

>3 - WAR  (5:46):  MERCY !  Pounding mystical riff.  By far, the beast on 
>	this CD.  Great breaks, etc, blah, blah.  
>	RATING - 11
    
    No doubt!  It's currently playing so I'll read your review after I hear
    the whole CD.

    Mike

    
    
      Is it possible for me to get this at Newbury Comics?
    
      Rick.
    
    

    Hmm, there seems to be an echo on the net today ...
    
    Scare'

    
    
    
       Huh?
    
    
    
    

re: Newberry

I dunno but my local shop had a copy yesterday (I got the last one he had).

My impressions:

No surprises, it sounds like Satch. On my first listen I didn't like it as much
as I remember liking "Flying in a blue dream" after the first listen. It's good
but IMHO just more of the same....


dbii

    I didn't like FIABD much...I'm hoping it's more in the NOTW vein,
    which was a ROOLIN album!!

    I figure this album will be a love/hate thing.  Lots of folks loved his
    first 2, hated "Flying ..." because it was such a change.  And too,
    some folks were ready for the change, and therefore won't be all that
    crazy about the new one.  To each his own ... but no matter which side
    of the fence you're on, please check out "Wars" on the new one. 
    Guaranteed to polish your colon ... 8^)
    
    Jerry

    I don't think he could ever record anything I wouldn't like.  Different
    strokes for different folks...
    
    I will say one thing: it's obvious the emphasis on this album comes in
    the form of song structure and melody rather than unleashing every
    guitar trick in his gadget bag.  Vai could stand to learn a few more
    lessons from his teacher in this area.  Just in the few listens I've
    had, there are many songs that will leave you humming the melody and
    singing it in your head.  The songs "War", "Summer Song", "Cryin", and
    "Rubina's Happy Sky..." have been stuck in my head all day.  
    
    Scary mentioned Beck when reviewing "Cryin".  I immediately thought of
    Larry Carlton when I heard it.  Sounds like something that could easily
    fit in on the "Solid Ground" CD.
    
    When you put "War", "Cryin", "Rubina's...", and "New Blues" into
    perspective, you can easily see how extreme and diverse this guy is. 
    Thank God he is still recording what he wants to record and not lending
    an ear to anyone else's desires/wishes/suggestions.
    
    Mike

    Well, after listening to it not stop, the songs sound more like jams. 
    On NOTW, even though they were all instrumentals they seemed more like
    *songs*.  I need to give this CD a rest and come back to it in a week.
    I'm close to getting burned out on it.  That's the way I do
    *everything* though ...
    
    Jerry

>    Well, after listening to it not stop, the songs sound more like jams. 
    
    That's *exactly* what I thought about that "Summer.." song when I heard
    it on the radio yesterday!
    
    Greg

Article 1055 of alt.guitar.tab:
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From: kafka@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: alt.guitar.tab
Subject: TAB: Tears in the Rain (Satriani)
Message-ID: <76467@ut-emx.uucp>
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:33:05 GMT

Always liked those short distortionless pieces on Satch's albums.  
Hope that this is a decent transcription in tab.

TEARS IN THE RAIN (JOE SATRIANI; from THE EXTREMIST)

3
   time, A minor, normal tuning 
4


-------0-------------0-------------0-------------0----------
-----3---3---------3---3---------6---6---------3---3--------
---5-------5-----4-------4-----7-------7-----5-------5------
-7-------------3-------------6-------------7----------------
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------

(Repeat four arpeggios above)

---0---8---0---------5---------0---8---0---------5----------
-----6---6---------5---5---------6---6---------5---5--------
-----------------5-------5-------------------5-------5------
-7-------------7-------------7-------------7----------------
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------

-------0-------------0-------------0-------------0----------
-----1---1---------1---1---------3---3---------3---3--------
---2-------2-----2-------2-----4-------4-----4-------4------
-3-------------3-------------3-------------3----------------
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------

-------0-------------0--------------------------------------
-----1---1---------3---3------------------------------------
---2-------2-----4-------4----------------------------------
-2-------------2--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------0-2-3-----2---0----------------
-----------------------------------0-4----------------------

-------0-------------0-------------0-------------0----------
-----3---3---------3---3---------6---6---------3---3--------
---5-------5-----4-------4-----7-------7-----5-------5------
---------------3-------------6------------------------------
-0-----------------------------------------0----------------
------------------------------------------------------------

(Repeat four arpeggios above)

---0---8---0-----0---8---0-------5-7-5---------5-7-5--------
-----6---6---------6---6-------5-------5-----5-------5------
------------------------------------------------------------
-0-------------0--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------3-------------3----------------
------------------------------------------------------------

-------0-------------0-------------1-------------0----------
-----3---3---------3---3---------3---3---------1---1--------
---2-------2-----1-------1-----2-------2-----2-------2------
------------------------------------------------------------
-2---------------------------0-------------0----------------
---------------0--------------------------------------------

---0---8---0-----0---8---0-------5-7-5---------5-7-5--------
-----6---6---------6---6-------5-------5-----5-------5------
------------------------------------------------------------
-0-------------0--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------3-------------3----------------
------------------------------------------------------------

-------7-------------4-------------1------------------------
-----6---6---------3---3---------0---0-----------3----------
---7-------7-----4-------4-----1-------1-------1---1--------
-6-------------3-------------0---------------3-------3------
-------------------------------------------2----------------
------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------
-------3-------------0-------------1-------------0----------
-----4---4---------1---1---------2---2---------1---1--------
---3-------3-----0-------0-----2-------2-----2-------2------
------------------------------------------------------------
-4-------------1-------------0-------------0----------------

---------------------0-----------0-5-7-----8----------------
-------1-----------1---1-------1-----3-----5----------------
-----2---2-------2-------2---2------------------------------
---2-------2---2--------------------------------------------
-0----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------

(Closes with a faint open A string)

Article 1064 of alt.guitar.tab:
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From: alib@IASTATE.EDU (Richard A Brown)
Subject: TAB: Satriani's 'Motorcycle Driver' intro (from The Extremist)
Message-ID: <1992Jul24.032941@IASTATE.EDU>
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:29:41 GMT

Hey, kids, be the first on the block to play some new Satch.
Here's the intro to Motorcycle Driver.  This tune is a bit of
a tease at least for me, because the intro is the coolest part
of the song, and the rest of it doesn't live up to this catchy
little riff, IMO.

Notation:

e = eighth note
q = quarter note
q. = 1.5 quarter note
PM = Palm Mute
NH = Natural Harmonic, played on the string and fret shown in parens.

4/4 time; tempo is about 170 quarter notes/min

 e  e  q.          e      e  e       q.           e   e    e   e    e
----------------------------------|--------------------------------------
----------------------------------|--------------------------------------
-------------------7--------------|--6------------7---6------------------
-------5--------------------------|--5---------------------7-------------
----------------------------------|----------------------------7---------
-0--0---------------------0--0----|--------------------------------(5)---
 PM PM                    PM PM                                     NH


(repeat 3x, then do whammy trick, then repeat 3x more)

Whammy trick sounds like he's bashing the side of the pick into the
low E string for two bars of eigth notes while gradually raising the whammy
bar from a lowered position up to concert pitch with the left hand.
This is just a guess.

--
Ali Brown	

    Here's the cool harmonic that is the theme of "Summer Song":
    
    ----------------------
    ----------------------
    ----------5-----------
    -------5-----5--------
    -5--4-----------4--5--
    ----------------------

    In a recent Satch interview I read, he said the title song of the new
    CD was originally done for Levi Strauss Co. (aka Levi's).  They wanted
    a song from him to be used in a blue jean TV commercial.  It turns out
    that he loved the song so much, he was grateful when they rejected it
    for being "too hard."
    
    Mike

Article 8132 of alt.guitar:
Organization: Senior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
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Newsgroups: alt.guitar
Message-ID: <4efqw8O00WDKQ4g0dw@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 11:51:36 -0400 
From: Vernon H Harmon <vh00+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Satriani lessons?
Lines: 6

On the radio this morning I heard that it costs $1000 per hour for
lessons with Satch. I wouldn't think he'd *give* lessons. Does he? I'm
certainly not good enough, or wealthy enough, for them, but I thought
I'd bring it up in case it interested someone else.....

--Vernon.



Article 8138 of alt.guitar:
Newsgroups: alt.guitar
Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!blave
From: blave@netcom.com (David W. Blevins)
Subject: Re: Satriani lessons?
Message-ID: <m3tn!t-.blave@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 21:48:34 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <4efqw8O00WDKQ4g0dw@andrew.cmu.edu>

Jeez, that'll weed out the starving Joe worshipers...  Buy the tab for
his albums - it's pretty accurately done and a HELLUVA lot cheaper..
Those transcribing guys are amazing.

I can't imagine any technique that I'd like to learn that's worth a cool
kilobuck.  How much does he charge to have a beer with him?


Blave, keeping his $1K for now.



Article 8159 of alt.guitar:
Organization: Doctoral student, Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
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Newsgroups: alt.guitar
Message-ID: <Yeg=roa00WB6NN8mBE@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:40:36 -0400 
From: Jefferey Allen Shufelt <js8j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Satriani lessons?
Lines: 11


I guess this must be another indicator of the recession.  Back
in '88 or so, after the release of "Surfing With the Alien", Satch
made a guest appearance on Headbanger's Ball on MTV.  In between
maniacal riffs, Adam Curry inquired as to the price of a lesson.
If I remember correctly, the response was $375 per hour.

Times are tough all over, I suppose.

----------------------------------
Jeff Shufelt    js@maps.cs.cmu.edu

    Not to lessons with Joe.  But to the Extremist.  
    
    I have had that CD for about a month now and I have admit I am
    Extremely underwelmed.  The songs break no new ground.  I am not saying
    that the playing isn't light years above what I am capable of.  I am
    just saying that I don't see musical growth here.  His previous album 
    "Flying..." although uneven in spots was more of an attempt to grow
    past the 'guitar god' label.  I this album as more of a settling in to
    that role...
    
    JMO
    
    Joe

    
    My two cents on "The Extremist":
    
    Well, having gotten very sick of "Surfing with the Alien", this is
    an excellent album.  "Surfing..." was way too annoying for me.  I
    got the idea he was really trying to show off his chops on that 
    one.  "The Extremist" comes across to me like he was actually play-
    ing what the song called for, and for that reason I got the impres-
    sion that he has settled in....and now he's simply free to play good
    music....
    
    JMO,
    
    guy

    What I liked about Surfin were the tunes; the title cut, "Satch
    Boogie", "Within..."; those are killer hooks.  I've heard one cut
    off the new one on the radio, "Summer Song" I think; it sounded
    so... generic.  Is there anything on the Extremist that'll buzz
    around in your brain like some of those Surfin cuts?
    
    /rick

>    so... generic.  Is there anything on the Extremist that'll buzz
>    around in your brain like some of those Surfin cuts?
    
    I think so, but I'm biased.
    
    My favs are the CD are:
    
    Friends, title track, War, Cryin, Why, Tears in the Rain, and Motorcycle 
    Driver.

    
    re: .127
    
    I'll have to second Mike H.   My favorites are the title track, War
    (which took me a while to like), Cryin'..........but I really enjoy
    the whole thing.  I like the Holdsworth-ian licks in part of "Rubina's
    Blue Sky Happiness".
    
    guy

    Hmmmmm
    
    I would recommend "try before you buy". I bought this LP, and have
    played it exactly twice...
    
    
    ...the third time I played it, I had to take it off during War, because
    I just couldn't take the endless riffing. To me, most of the album
    sounds like a bunch of recycled heavy riffs, with no real tunes.
    However, it's obvious that there are a bunch of people here who like
    the album, so it's DEFINITELY a case of "your mileage may vary".
    
    Nick
    
    ps I DO like Cryin'  :^)

    
    	See the new Shawn Lane note.  Join us, the water's fine...
    
    	Tom
    

    I *LIKE* my water riff heavy

    
    	Mike - sometimes folks gotta take a chance.  Hmmm... seem to
    	remember the same thing with Morse with you.
    
    	But I'll agree that I wish there was more guitar on it.  He
    	just happens to be fabulous on keys too.
    
    	Tom

    
    well....I'm planning on checking out the Shawn Lane album *and*
    I like Satch....
    
    is this unacceptable? ;-)
    
    
    guy

    
    	Herald says Satch at the Orpheum in November.
    
    	Tom
    

    Joe not only won best Rock Guitarist from Guitar Player magazine's
    readers poll (Eric Johnson won best Overall), but he also has a new
    50 minute video tape (with music videos and interviews) out.  For more
    info, write to Joe's fan club @:
    
        Satriani Fan Club
        P.O. Box 884564
        San Francisco, CA  94188

    My turn, Greg, great reply.  I'm on the floor now.
    
    Dave

    RE:39
    You obviously have a limited ability to comprehend emotion.  Take a
    listen to  "Crying" from the Extremist or "Always With You Always
    With Me" and a Zillion more where those came from.  If you can't feel
    the emotion in those songs you better check your pulse.   

    OPPS, I ment to say RE:139 not RE:39  
    

    re: .141
    
    I'm willing to bet my farm that Mr. House's reply was facetious.
    
    That means he was kidding.
    
    Dave

re: .141
    
>   -< GET A LIFE >-
    
    Got any to spare?
                                                
>    If you can't feel
>    the emotion in those songs you better check your pulse.   
    
    I can't feel that either.  What should I do?
    
    Greg

   >> I can't feel that (my pulse) either.  What should I do?
    
    Call Keith Richards, he probably knows......
    
    8^)

    RE:144
    
    >> I can't feel that either.  What should I do?
    
    My prescription is 2 heathy dossed or more of Joe (and I don't mean coffee)
    a day.  That should get the old blood pumpin' again ;^)

>    I can't feel that either.  What should I do?
    
    Gee, Greg, you're even modest about your vital signs!  Are you sure
    you're really a guitarist?
    
    Dave - alive and well (if you call this living)

    I can feel my pulse.....I can feel it slamming agianst the inside of my
    head right at the temples....is that good or bad?  However, sometimes I 
    can't feel it because my ears ring so loudly......
    
    dawg 
    
    PS: does this condition put me in the Keith Richards Club?

>    Gee, Greg, you're even modest about your vital signs!  
    
    My vital signs are highly underrated...
    ;^)
    
>    Are you sure you're really a guitarist?
    
    I'm not sure I'd use that particular term for what I do with a guitar,
    but yeah, I play the things a bit...
    
    Greg

>    "Is that an animal being tortured?"
    
    Well, then I guess we should all be grateful you're not a violinist...
    
    ...or a banjo player!
    
    Dave

>    ...or a banjo player!
    
    Now how did I know that was coming?

    I didn't have time to wade through 151 replies, but I was surprised
    recently to find out that Joe has been helping pay the rent doing
    sessions as a singer...he's doing harmonies on the first Crowded House
    LP (with "Don't Dream That It's Over" or whatever that song was...),
    for instance. Pretty funny seeing how critics ragged on his vocal work
    on "Blue Dream".  
    
    I wonder how common this is...I know session bassist Will Lee does lots
    of jingles as a singer.
    
    						Bijou Drains

    Today's paper says Satch will be appearing on the Tonight Show this
    evening.  They didn't say whether he would be singing...
    
    /rick

A thoroughly unimpressive performance.

    SHIT!!!! I MISSED IT!!
    What did he play ?

    
      G - L - O - R - I - A !
    
    
    
    
    						MEGA B-}   -B{}{}M-

    What an airhead!  I totally forgot about it.
    
    Greg

    It was lame. If that's what The Extremist is like, count me out. I liked
    his Surfin' Wif The Alien stuff. But these two tunes where very
    uninspiring. Nothing but pointless noodling. <yawn>

    And it sounded like most of the audience agreed with me. It sounded like
    there was only about fifteen or twenty people in the room. Except for a
    few extra loud (hoots, etc.) members, it was very quiet in there.

    Only the first tune was off "Extremist"; I don't know the title, but
    it's the one that's getting airplay that's not "Summer Song".
    
    The second tune was Satch Boogie!  One of my favorite Satch tunes,
    but as Ron suggests neither came off that great (SB was the better
    of the two).  I think it was largely bad sound; I don't think the
    TV guys knew how to handle the volume.  He did that entire weird middle
    section in Satch Boogie too.  My wife was checking it out and asked
    "is he cheating?"
    
    /rick

>    of the two).  I think it was largely bad sound; I don't think the
>    TV guys knew how to handle the volume.  He did that entire weird middle


That's what I thought.  Half the time I couldn't hear what he was playing.
Satch Boogie was the only part I saw and it was actually the first time I
ever heard him play.  Is that typical of his playing?

Bob

    I saw him live when he toured for the Flying In a Blue Dream album and
    he sounded great!  His playing was very much "on" and his band was hot.
    
    Greg

    Well, I wanted to see him but I had to listen to an hour-an-a-half of
    Dodd execution hoopla on our local networks...DAMN!!
    
    Even if the sound was bad, I wanted to see it anyway.
    
    Sounds to me like he played 'Friends' first.  That's his kind of
    'vanilla' tune for people who would faint if they heard 'War' at full
    volume...
    
    Really, can't expect them guys in Burbank to get his sound right, just
    wanted to see the great one one more time (saw him 'ere in Seat'le back
    in Nov.).
    
    Oh well, maybe Dave will have him on and Will wil make sure the sound
    check is acceptable!!
    
    -Stephen

>    Oh well, maybe Dave will have him on and Will wil make sure the sound
>    check is acceptable!!
    
    The last time I saw Satriani on Letterman, he didn't even get to play
    any of his own stuff or have a spotlight.  He just sat in with Paul
    Schaffer and the band and jammed before and after the commercials
    (probably because Schaffer and his band always have to horn in and play
    along with any band they have on the show and they couldn't cut it for
    Satch's music, but that's just my personal theory...)  I was really
    disappointed.
    
    Greg
                  

    If that's the time I saw him sitting in with the band he wasn't really
    billed as a guest. I did hear him do an *excellent* job on the intro to
    Little Wing just as they cut to an advertisment. If I recall correctly,
    they did a bunch of Hendrix tunes. Manic Depression comes to mind.

    --Ron

    Yeah, I remember that show...
    
    It was sooo frustrating 'cause you're sitting there watching the
    Energizer Bunny blow through a fake commercial thinking to yerself how
    cool it would be to hear what they're playing back at the studio.
    
    If ya guys remember...when Dave finished his monologue and introduced
    Paul for his nightly observation...Paul introduced Satch and said he
    never says this but "we have THE greatest, has taught everybody", or
    something to that effect.
    
    -Stephen 

>>    Today's paper says Satch will be appearing on the Tonight Show this
>>    evening.  They didn't say whether he would be singing...
    
> A thoroughly unimpressive performance.
    
    Was it here that we had the Satriani vs. Morse war?
    
    Well, hope so (cause I'm about to push some chains).
    
    If you want to see how a REAL guitar god plays on the Tonite Show,
    tune in tonite to watch:
    
    		STEVE MORSE and the DIXIE DREGS!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Yep, they're going to be on tonite's show.

    Morse is as emotional as Vai.

Article 12196 of alt.guitar:
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From: Gavin.Dodds@newcastle.ac.uk (Gavin Dodds)
Newsgroups: alt.guitar
Subject: REVIEW - The Satch Tapes
Date: 5 Feb 93 16:10:38 GMT
Organization: Computing Laboratory, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU.

  The Satch Tapes : Joe Satriani
  ------------------------------

    This is an invaluable addition to any Satriani fan's collection.  It traces 
    the progress of Mr. Satriani's career from his first decision to learn to 
    play the guitar to the end of his latest album - "The Extremist".

    There are interviews with Satch, Steve Vai, Nigel Tuffnel (from Spinal Tap) 
    and others.  These shed light onto the ideas and motivations behind the 
    music and the man.

    For all you people interested in his techniques, there are lots of close 
    ups of his left hand as he plays his pieces.

    There are also videos of "Satch Boogie", "Always With Me Always With 
    You", "Big Bad Moon", "Summer Song" and "The Extremist".

    There is a lot of footage of Joe in the studio including one bit where he 
    is recording "The Phone Call", he does actually use a phone.  In one 
    interview, Joe tells how he was mixing "The Snake" and the mixer's car was 
    broken into, so he went outside to see what was going on.  The mixer came 
    back with his hands covered in blood (he had cut them on the broken 
    window) and then they found they had run out of tape.  Joe was then 
    tasked to hunt through the waste bin for any bit of tape longer than a foot
    mixer, still with bloody hands, then fixed these bits of tape together and 
    they mixed the track onto this hotch potch, blood covered piece of tape.  
    This was the piece used on the album - "Not of this Earth".

    All in all a very good tape, well worth getting.     9/10

    The 9 was because there were a few draggy bits, like shots along the neck 
    of the silver surfer guitar in a car, with scenery wizzing past.

    Joe "Vai didn't learn that emotionless crap from me" Satriani will be
    releasing a double CD set this fall.  It will include live material
    fromt he Surfin and Extremist tours.  It will also include previously
    unreleased material, especially from his very first album (the one
    before N.O.T.E. that's out of print).

    The name of Satriani's new album will be "Time Machine" and its
    scheduled released date is October 26th.
    
    Rumor has it that this is his most "emotional" album to date.  ;-)

    You're starting to come around, db!

    > You're starting to come around, db!
    
    Well, of course, as we all know, it's often very difficult to come
    to terms with one's emotions.  Guess that's why I've always preferred
    unemotional guitarists.
    
    	db

WRT emotions- a *lot* depends on the sensitivity of the "observer" to the emotion
of the performer, IMHO.

I find, for instance, Carlos Santana's playing to be *very* emotional, although
he himself, when I saw him, was almost motionless, and at times even turned his
back to the audience. Same goes for Justin Hayward of the Moody Blues: when I
watched the concert at Red Docks, he was far less overtly "emotional" than the
other performers, but I felt he was far more intensely involved with the music.

It's obviously something where individual perceptions differ, but I guess that's
my point, that they *do* differ. What one person sees as unemotional can appear
to another as barely restrained intensity; likewise, what one sees as emotional
can appear to another as exhibitionism which has little to do with real emotion.

Go figger...


Bob

    Bob, don't go using logic in this debate.  Our minds are already made
    up.

    RE: "our minds are already made up"
    
    Well, sure. I *never* would have thought they were *real*...

>  Morse, Vai, etc. can't touch Satch
    
    Mike, you're flying in a blue dream.  ;-)
    

    Satch don't need no steenkin vocalist with a Kwai Chang Cain haircut.

    > Satch don't need no steenkin vocalist with a Kwai Chang Cain haircut.
    
    Vai don't use no freekin drum machine on his records.
    
    He also don't pretend like he can sing.  ;-)

>  -< A mind is a terrible thing to... to... huh? >-
    
    To HAVE!
    

    I heard a pre-release off the new Satch double-CD yesterday.  It's a
    bluesy ballad that's a cover of an old Billie Holiday song.  It was so
    dripping with emotion that it brought tears to my eyes.

    I purchased the new "Time Machine" the other day.  It's a 2-CD set, one
    with new studio and previously unreleased material.  The other is a
    live recording, much of which was recorded at the Orpheum.
    
    CD-1 has a few real gems on it, but some of it I could've lived
    without.  The Billie Holiday cover, "All Alone," has a melody that
    won't leave my head.  Other favorites are the title track, "Crazy,"
    "Speed of Light," "Baroque," "Saying Goodbye," "The Mighty Turtle
    Head," "Thinking of You," and "Dweller on the Threshold."  The rest I'm
    not to crazy about.
    
    CD-2 (live) seems a little dry, and if I may be blunt, emotionless. 
    The playing is certainly on.  They should've mixed more of the audience
    though to liven things up a bit.  I've only listened to it once a low
    volume so I'll have to give it another spin.
    
    GUITAR's objective analyst,
    Mike

    > CD-2 (live) seems a little dry, and if I may be blunt, emotionless. 
    
    I think I recently read an interview where Satch cited Morse as an
    influence.
    
    Clearly the influence is showing thru.
    
    	db
    

    Re: .183
    
    Mix in more of the audience?  Why, was some of the air guitar work
    more exciting than what Satch was doing?  
    
    I hate audience noise mixed into live recordings...I want to hear the
    music, not the yahoos!  If I really want the experience of "being
    there" I can always pour a beer on my head and have my wife vomit on my
    shoes 8^)  8^)
    
    							Brian

    "They're not actually sure *who's* vomit..."

    >I can always pour a beer on my head and have my wife vomit on my
    >shoes...
    
    
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! 
    
    8)

    Brian, you slay me!  Maybe to make it real, she can start throwing her
    undergarments in the air.

   ... and slam dancing/"moshing".  :-)

   -- Sam

re: .188

>    Brian, you slay me!  Maybe to make it real, she can start throwing her
>    undergarments in the air.

Why?  Is it a "Tom Jones Live" record?

-Hal

>    I think I recently read an interview where Satch cited Morse as an
>    influence.
    
    If he managed to slip and say that, it was probably out of respect for
    his elders.  It's great to see these kids respect these old farts that
    pale in comparison.

>    If he managed to slip and say that, it was probably out of respect for
>    his elders.  It's great to see these kids respect these old farts that
>    pale in comparison.
    
    As you clearly don't respect Morse, does that make you a "bad kid" or
    an "old fart" yourself Mike?
    
    ;-)

    That makes him a "fartknocker".  Huh huh...huh.

    db, I'm just old enough to know better ;-)
    
    I don't disrespect Morse and his abilities, I just don't like his style
    of music.  Satch also credited Jimi as an influence, but I don't hold
    that against him either.

    > I don't disrespect Morse and his abilities, I just don't like his
    > style of music.
    
    Gee, Mike, that's the most reasonable unassuming  statement you've
    made about Morse since....  Hmmm...  Come to think of it, that's
    probably the ONLY reasonable unassuming statement you've ever made
    about Morse.
    
    ;-)
    
    	db
    
    p.s. So should I buy "Time Machine" or what?  Sounds like you were
    	 a bit mixed on it.

    Is it time for a "Mike and Dave: Point/Counterpoint" topic?
    
    Is there a scalping note in here yet?
    
    							Ed Norton

>    p.s. So should I buy "Time Machine" or what?  Sounds like you were
>   a bit mixed on it.
    
    well, given our different tastes, I'm not going to tell you to spend
    your money and then have you razz me later on.  I like it, but not as
    much as FIBD.

>    well, given our different tastes, I'm not going to tell you to spend
>    your money and then have you razz me later on.  
    
    Aw... you're no fun at all.  ;-)

    ok db, go ahead and spend you're money.  You buy "Time Machine" and
    I'll go buy Morse's latest and we'll compare notes.  
    
    Mike {thank God Tower has a demo center now!}

    re: -1
    
    and at least 3 replies by Buckster to various notes in ONE DAY!
    
    8)

    Interesting article/review in the liner notes of "Time Machine." 
    Highly recommended reading for fans of Satrionics.
    
    Brother Mike (spreading the Gospel of Satch)

    I bought the video "Satch Tapes" last night and it contains some pretty
    informative stuff.  Even the Steve Vai interviews were cool.  Nice to
    see him admit that his teacher is still #1.

    I think Vai was just being modest.
    
    	db - who is starting to appreciate the "Sex and Religion" album
    	     more and more with each listen.   Track #9 (forgot the title
    	     is tres cool).

>     -< Vai sez Satch is dripping with emotion >-

    GROSS!!!  Someone tell that man to take a shower!!

    What's even funnier are the interviews with Nigel Tufnel on this tape.

    A personal recommendation for "Time Machine".  I've been listening to
    it steadily since Christmas, and it's easily my favorite Satch
    recording.  A lot of times with Satch albums I find a little goes a
    long way; everything starts to sound the same.  Not so with disc 1 of
    "Time Machine" however.  There seems to be a much broader range of
    stuff than I've ever heard from him in one place; some of it pretty
    wild and experimental.  The live tunes sound fine to me; maybe inferior
    in spots to some of the original studio versions, but not enough to
    bother me.  It's a bigger plus imo to have all your favorite Satch
    "hits" in one spot like this.
    
    Bottom line, if I were going to own just one Satch album this would be
    it.
    
    /rick
    

    > See db, I told ya!
    
    I'll never doubt you again.

    
    	He's playing at the Avalon in Boston soon.  
    
    	This weekend maybe?  
    
    

>    	He's playing at the Avalon in Boston soon.  

Who, Solomon? Didn't know he was still gigging...

    db, you forgot to mention how Satch mopped up in the "Instrumentalist
    of the Year" awards.  I didn't see Morse's name anywhere, though. 
    Except for his monthly column where he said it's fruitless to argue
    who's the best.  He said to quit it and to just confess that
    
    SATCH RULES!
    
    No really he said (paraphrasing) that his theory is that everyone has
    something they excel at.  I never did like fence-straddlers much.

    extension from 398.last...
    
    Isn't Satch doing the Deep Purple gig?

    Yeah, _nobody_ else has that big a 'tude!

    I read, I believe in the liner notes in Guitar Player a few months ago,
    that Blackmore had a(nother) falling out with the rest of DP and that
    Satch was asked to play on their tour of Japan.  Satch was reportedly
    thrilled to do it, as he had been playing DP music for many years.
    (Plus, I don't suppose the money was too bad either!).   Sort of like
    Morse's Kansas gigs, but with more feeling :) -- many of these to Dave
    and Mike...

    steve

    > Satch <-> DP = Morse <-> Kansas
    
    The major difference is that Morse IMPROVED the quality of guitar
    playing in Kansas whereas Satch, as has been noted, could never
    fill Blackmores shoes.

    Holy hand grenades Batman, I just checked out the title of this topic
    and discovered the "Satriani has scrambled my brian". Now was that me,
    or Brian Rost when he was still lurking? Funny, I don't *feel*
    scrambled. A bit fried, maybe...
    
    Brian

>    Holy hand grenades Batman, I just checked out the title of this topic
>    and discovered the "Satriani has scrambled my brian". Now was that me,
>    or Brian Rost when he was still lurking? Funny, I don't *feel*
>    scrambled. A bit fried, maybe...
    
    It has been amply demonstrated in here that "scrambled brains" is 
    the result of listening to Satriani.
    
    	db
    

>    It has been amply demonstrated in here that "scrambled brains" is 
>    the result of listening to Satriani.
    
    no "scrambled brains" is from trying to play as excellently as he does 
    on the guitar.
    
>    p.s. Although I like Satch, one of the things that just permanently
>    puts him well below Morse is that most of his stuff is 4/4 BPM=120
>    Boogie/shuffles.   Not much composition really, just jamming over
>    some (admittedly) VERY happenin' grooves. 

    There's a lot of this, but also some excellent compostions, unusual
    chord progressions, exotic scales, odd meters (i.e., 7/4), and some
    drop-dead soloing that would knock the gonads off anything.
     
>    I love to listen to it, but sorry... on the achievement/respect scale, it's
>    hard for me to take any comparison to real compositions such as Morse
>    (or Livgren for that matter) very seriously.
>    
>    To each his own though.
    
    The last line sums it up well, even if you are wrong.
    
    Mike

>    and some drop-dead soloing that would knock the gonads off anything.
    
    Um...is that a positive attribute?
    

    Well. A couple times a week, I get together with this dynamite keyboard
    player who writes music in 7/4, 5/4, 9/8, even 21/8. All over the
    place. The stuff is in scales you can't even play on a regular guitar
    (with stuff like Bohlin/Pierce which approximates to 146 cents per
    semitone). I have to play a MIDIfied bass guitar through a sampler with
    a keymap to produce the notes I need. All of this scale and time
    signature stuff and runs of 16th notes all over the friggin neck. My
    chops have gone beyond anything I ever expected out of myself playing
    this stuff.
    
    Then I go home, write my 4/4 power pop with fairly straight-forward
    chord progressions and feel wonderful doing it. I love that other stuff
    and I love this too. I think one can fall into a deep trap if they
    proceed with the notion that because the music changes key or time
    signature every measure that it is somehow superior to other music.
    I can use my new-found monster chops to shred impressively in 4/4 and
    the key of C if that's what turns my crank...
    
    Bria

    >Then I go home, write my 4/4 power pop with fairly straight-forward
    >chord progressions and feel wonderful doing it. I love that other stuff
    >and I love this too. I think one can fall into a deep trap if they
    >proceed with the notion that because the music changes key or time
    >signature every measure that it is somehow superior to other music. 
    
    "Superior" is a vague term so I won't say it's "Superior".
    
    I will say that writing something truly "progressive" strikes me as
    a bit more ambitious and more of an "achievement" than writing
    "fairly straight-forward chord progressions".
    
    So... won't say one is "better", but will say that I have more
    "respect" for one than the other.
    
    Everybody and his brother can write a 4/4 pop ditty.   Heck, everybody
    and his brother IS writing 4/4 pop ditties.
    
    The guys I reserve my respect for, are the ones that really look to
    push the envelope.  
    
    	db
    
    p.s. Unfortunately, the only envelopes these guys end up pushing is
    	the ones at their day jobs at the post office because most people
    	don't appreciate "pushing the envelope".  They want to listen to
    	the same music tommorrow that they heard today because that's what
    	they heard yesterday.

    >I will say that writing something truly "progressive" strikes me as
    >a bit more ambitious and more of an "achievement" than writing
    >"fairly straight-forward chord progressions".
    
    I see a debate brewing (uh oh) on the subject of measures of
    progressiveness. Tell you what; I don't think chords and time
    signatures are a good measure. I don't think this stuff is
    really pushing any particular envelope. In fact, I think some
    bands even fall into the trap of believing that throwing in
    a dash of 7/4 makes otherwise weak songwriting OK (witness the
    latest Yes album, full of flawlessly executed but dull music).
    I don't think any particular compositional device is the
    envelope; what the artist does with it is the envelope. An
    example of this is Todd Rundgren's "No World Order". To me,
    this album definitely pushes the envelope, but not because
    it tries to be jazz from hell.
    
    The point of my previous reply is that in my opinion, it is
    possible to push the envelope with a very basic set of tools.
    I see your definition of "pushing the envelope" as flawed; or
    at least what I perceive as your definition. I readily admit
    that playing in difficult time signatures has improved my
    overall ability. However, that does not mean that I can't
    accomplish something cool if I'm not playing in a difficult
    time signature.
    
    I think the trap is spending time writing the non-obvious in
    search of some compositional holy grail, when a I-IV-V will
    do the trick with more dramatic impact. I've seen a lot of
    musicians who don't feel satisfied with a composition unless
    it has some requisite set of "special sauce ingrediants".
    More often than not, it also represents that particular
    artist's peculiar stylistic crutch... which hardly means
    that it pushes the envelope. Yes, for instance, just can't
    seem to get away from the 7/4 watering hole.
    
    Brian

I have to agree with Brian on this one.  Many of the songs that give
me goosebumps aren't necessarily complicated chord-wise, melody-wise, or
rhythm-wise.  There's just something about them that connects on some sort
of emotional (or something like that) level.  I'm often not sure about why
a particular song speaks to me.  If I *could* analyze these things better,
perhaps I could easily crank out tons of memorable songs.  Or maybe not.
I suspect that just 'cause a song gives me goosebumps, doesn't mean it will
give Brian or Dave or anyone else goosebumps.  Or vice versa, of course. :-)

-Hal

P.S.  I *can* sometimes identify elements of a song that speak to me,
but not always.  And even when I can, I'm not sure I really understand
the whole process.

	I also agree with Brian - his few notes hit the nail on the
	head big-time.

	db, it's no secret that you consider boundary pushing one of the
	top reasons for appreciating music, and I can actually see
	how Dolly fits in there...  But hopefully you also realize
	that new/different/technically difficult isn't how alot of us
	judge, appreciate, and enjoy music.

	Or rate it, for that matter.

	Believe me, I also don't want to debate you on this - just want to
	make a few points.

	Like you, I also enjoy technical music.  My tastes seem more in
	the jazz vein tho.  Just picked up John McLaughlin's trio CD
	of a live Japan concert.  Ouch!  Technically great and far beyond
	anything I could do in my lifetime.  But if I had to choose, I'd 
	take Johnny Winter's music over that just cuz it floats my boat
	on an emotional level.

	As far as Morse, he blows away Beck technically but, to me, it
	isn't close as to who's "better musically".          =====

	Same for Emerson - give me Zawinul any day.

	How about Fripp, Mr Craft himself?  To me, he needs the "less
	technical" Adrian Belew to create great music.

	My observance is that you're a technical guy.  You're obviously 
	sharp with computers.  You're active in Commusic with lots of 
	technical info.  You seem to have a strong passion for that
	kind of thing.  

	And, from what I've seen, you like your music the same way.

	Geez, db, why don't you write a tune in hex?  You'd be God!

	Tom

	p.s.  many ;)'s

    Careful guyz; I feel the effects of "Da Blooze" note gravity sucking
    us into it's deadly orbit again.

    Brian, we beat this exact thing to death in the great holy wars of
    last fall (see #2845 and #2847).  Too bad you missed it :-)
    
    /steve satrakeaggy

    We seem to be arguing this subject in two separate notes... so pardon
    me if I only quote from one thread here:
    
    >I will say that writing something truly "progressive" strikes me as
    >a bit more ambitious and more of an "achievement" than writing
    >"fairly straight-forward chord progressions".
    
    Again, progressiveness is the issue. Progressiveness is not, in
    my opinion, defined by what is used (time sig, chord prog, tuning),
    but in *how* it is used. For instance, I think sound is a big part
    of progressiveness... that is why I personally consider some of the
    current "Hip Hop" music to be progressive, because it is very
    innovative in the use of sound. I happen to find the Madonna song
    "Justify My Love" progressive. 4/4 rhythm, almost non-existant
    chord progression, but a very unique texture. No one ever accused
    Madonna of "progressive rock", but there you have it... a ground-
    breaking (not to mention shaking) song in a vanilla dance wrapper.
    
    Equally, the song "Unchained Melody" in not particularly ambitous,
    but I think most people agree that it is brilliant in execution
    and that in terms of emotional impact, it was a most progressive
    achievement.
    
    And Patsy Cline (sorry for the spelling if I butchered it). In
    my opinion, she was one serious envelope pusher. The envelope,
    in this case, being the emotional impact of subdued vocal
    delivery (contrast this with Whitney Houston, who by oversinging
    virtually everything does has no emotional impact whatsoever).
    
    Remember, progressive implies "ahead of its time", "leading the
    pack", "breaking new ground", "innovative"; it is not a measure
    of technical difficulty.
    
    >So... won't say one is "better", but will say that I have more
    >"respect" for one than the other.
    
    For me, respect is based not on ambition but on execution. Clearly,
    Patrick Leonard is not particularly ambitious, but I do have a lot
    of respect for his work.
    
    >Everybody and his brother can write a 4/4 pop ditty.   Heck, everybody
    >and his brother IS writing 4/4 pop ditties.
    
    Yeah, but everybody and his brother isn't *selling* them. Reaching
    someone else with what you write is part of the craft, and I feel
    it's part of the craft you're dismissing. This impression is based
    on your "yeah, I *like* it, but I don't necessarily *respect* it"
    sort of argument.
    
    >The guys I reserve my respect for, are the ones that really look to
    >push the envelope.
    
    I think herein lies the problem. You seem to imply that someone who
    doesn't push your rather narrowly defined envelope as someone who you
    can't completely respect. But, in truth, you really do respect them
    (as in the  Dolly Parton case), you just can't reconcile that respect
    with the way you've defined your envelope. All I'm saying is: rethink
    your envelope dude.
    
    Brian

    Now I can see why db rags on Satch so much - he's much more bluesier
    than Morse.

    I think you guys need to re-read my note, as well as remember some
    of the kinds of music I like.
    
    Some of the statements you've made are so far off that my jaw nearly
    dropped.  Some examples:
    
    PART I - "TECHNICAL PLAYING"
    
    > it's no secret that you consider boundary pushing one of the
    >   top reasons for appreciating music,
    
    Egads no!
    
    You've confused "appreciation" with "respect".   I LOVE/buy/listen-to a
    LOT of non-technical music.  In fact, technical music isn't even the 
    dominant part of what I listen to these days.
    
    My "top reason for appreciating music" is CLEARLY and PROVABLY not
    "pushing the boundaries".  How can I "prove" that... well... it's
    actually trivial:
    
    	o There are artists that I feel push the boundaries that I
    	  do not listen to and don't buy because their music just
    	  doesn't "get" to me.  Rush is a prime example.
    
    	o There are artists that do NOT push the boundaries that I
    	  love and buy every album of, play in my band(s), because
    	  the music gets to me.  The only boundaries Dolly Parton
    	  pushes is bra sizes.  ;-)
    
    How does this prove it?  Well, clearly "pushing the boundaries" isn't
    enough to get me to listen and by.  Clearly music that appeals to me
    on the non-technical levels IS enough.  That rather incontrovertably
    tells you where my "priorities" are.
    
    Q.E.D.
    
    Perhaps the source of your confusion is this:  The guys I *RESPECT*
    the most (and I've very carefully used this wording here and
    previously) are the guys who can do BOTH.
    
    Morse's music does not appeal to me because he's a great technical
    player.  My enhanced respect for him is that NOT ONLY does he
    write great tunes, but he is such an incredible player as well.
    
    PART II - "EQUIPMENT"
    
    > My observance is that you're a technical guy.  You're obviously  sharp
    > with computers.  You're active in Commusic with lots of  technical
    > info.  You seem to have a strong passion for that kind of thing.  
    
    I do not have a "strong passion" for equipment.
    
    Unlike 99% of the people in here, I don't get hot over guitars and
    amps or equipment in general.  
    
    In fact, somewhere in here is a note I wrote years ago observing (and
    naturally sparking a lot of controversy and defensiveness) that this
    conference was about 90% "shop talk" about equipment.
    
    The reason you see me offering technical info in COMMUSIC does perhaps
    reflect "knowledge" about the equipment, but does NOT reflect any
    "passion" for it.  In fact I hate it.  The keyboards and amp I use are
    the first MIDI things I bought (aside from a minor upgrade of my
    Ensoniq ESQ-1 to to an SQ-80 which is basically the same thing with a
    floppy disk).   In fact, the keyboards, guitars and amps I'm using
    today are exactly the ones I used from the beginning of Synergy (two
    bands before the 6-year old db wilfred band).  I'm even using the same
    cords!
    
    When I buy a piece of equipment, I learn it inside and out so that ONCE
    I learn it, my creative juices don't get stifled by having to go look
    up something in a manual.  But I don't have any "passion for knobs,
    bytes, envelopes, LFOs, etc. I hate that stuff and I often marvel at
    how some people can revel in it.   
    
    To me, it's just something you have to put up with to express yourself 
    better.  Equipment is a means to an end.  For a lot of people, it
    appears to be an end in and of itself.
    
    I'm not really putting GTS-types down.  It's really kind of like a 
    "collector" hobby and there's nothing wrong with that.  I'm just saying 
    that claiming that I AM one is just really inaccurate.
    
    	db
    
    

>    Again, progressiveness is the issue. Progressiveness is not, in
>    my opinion, defined by what is used (time sig, chord prog, tuning),
>    but in *how* it is used. For instance, I think sound is a big part
>    of progressiveness... 
    
    Brian, I am not going by the musical notion of "progressive", I'm
    going by the dictionary definition.
    
    Being "progressive" is NOT limited to "progressive rock".  Not even
    hardly.  
    
    Thus, I hate to dissapoint everyone but I don't disagree with anything
    Brian said on that subject either.  Only on how you've characterized me.
    
>    Remember, progressive implies "ahead of its time", "leading the
>    pack", "breaking new ground", "innovative"; it is not a measure
>    of technical difficulty.
    
    I couldn't agree more.
    
>    Yeah, but everybody and his brother isn't *selling* them. Reaching
>    someone else with what you write is part of the craft, and I feel
>    it's part of the craft you're dismissing. 
    
    Totally wrong.
    
    Read my previous note.
    
    > This impression is based on your "yeah, I *like* it, but I don't
    > necessarily *respect* it" sort of argument.
    
    I guess that's an understandable impression but it's not really
    quite right.  I never meant to imply that I don't respect people
    who reach other people.  You've been in the MUSIC conference long
    enough to know that I am offender the "defender" of such folk.
    
    Don't take my word for it.  Look in the Michael Jackson note, heck,
    look in the *** Debbie Gibson *** note.
    
    What I meant is that I reserve my "highest regard" for someone who
    excels in ALL categories.
    
>    I think herein lies the problem. You seem to imply that someone who
>    doesn't push your rather narrowly defined envelope as someone who you
>    can't completely respect. But, in truth, you really do respect them
>    (as in the  Dolly Parton case), you just can't reconcile that respect
>    with the way you've defined your envelope. All I'm saying is: rethink
>    your envelope dude.
    
    Why?
    
    Is your envelope better than mine?
    
    My point is that these are all subjective things.  Your "suggestion"
    is like telling someone "you should really make green your favorite
    color instead of blue".
    
    What is UNHEALTHY is when someone's "envelope" inhibits them from
    APPRECIATING unfamiliar kinds of music.  They deprive themselves
    of the great gift of enjoying music.
    
    The examples of that are so numerous that I'll have to force myself
    to limit my examples:
    
    	o People who dismiss Michael Jackson because he's popular
    	o "					        " weird
    	o People who dismiss folks like Satch and Morse because
    	  they play too many notes
    	o People who put off the blues because the it all sounds
    	  the same
    	o People who put off rap because it all sounds the same
    	o "                " country "                        "
    	o People who put off classical because it doesn't rock
    
    Let me emphasize what I'm saying.  I think there's nothing wrong
    with having our own notions of what music we respect the most.
    In fact, I think it's almost unavoidable and it's silly to try
    and convince each other otherwise (that's "green" vs "blue").
    
    What is wrong is when you let those notions keep you from appreciating
    things that conflict with them (not appreciating a blue sky or
    a green meadow).
    
    Let he who is without that sin, cast the first rolling stone.
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

    Well db, we have a long history of violent agreement... the same
    sentiment applies; nothing you've said that I could disagree with.
    Still, I'll give it my best shot: :-)
    
>    I think herein lies the problem. You seem to imply that someone who
>    doesn't push your rather narrowly defined envelope as someone who you
>    can't completely respect. But, in truth, you really do respect them
>    (as in the  Dolly Parton case), you just can't reconcile that respect
>    with the way you've defined your envelope. All I'm saying is: rethink
>    your envelope dude.
    
    > Why?
    
    The second to last sentence quoted above is "why".
        
    > Is your envelope better than mine?
    
    Absolutely not. I would never claim it is. I just perceive that your
    model has a slight flaw in that you claim to not be able to respect
    some of that which you also claim to like.
    
    >My point is that these are all subjective things.  Your "suggestion"
    >is like telling someone "you should really make green your favorite
    >color instead of blue".
    
    Your point is correct, your interpretation of my suggestion is not. I
    am not in any way suggesting that you change what you like. What I am
    suggesting is that you *seem* to be over-intellectualizing in
    developing a rationale for what you like. I think what you "respect"
    and what you "like" is a meaningless distinction.
    
    From my perspective, I like a lot of really technical music and I like
    a lot of music that operates on a more emotional level. All the music I
    like has the commonality that it speaks to me in a personal way (not
    different than why anyone else likes what they like, including you).
    
    While being analytical about music is necessary for the musician to learn,
    it is not something that has to be applied to every musical experience
    in order to enjoy it. That is all I am saying.
    
    Brian

    Brian,
    
    You must be right about being "over-analytical" because while I agree
    that your interpretation of some of the things I've said (like the
    interpretation that I "don't respect" certain musicians) is perhaps
    reasonably "derived" from what I've said, it is not at all how things
    actually are.
    
    I repeat: It's not that I don't "respect" Dolly Parton (an example you
    mentioned), in fact I do respect her.   It's that my highest respect
    goes to musicians who are so totally dedicated as to demand excellence
    of themselves in all categories.
    
    It's a matter of "degrees" of respect.
    
    Think about it this way... would it not be reasonable for me to
    respect Dolly Party MORE than I do now if she made the effort to
    become a virtuoso instrumentalist? 
    
    I'll tell you someone whom I have an incredible amount of respect for
    (at the risk of further guff):  Barbara Mandrell.    She is not only a
    great singer, entertainer and songwriter, but the music's best kept
    secret is that this woman is incredible on at least a DOZEN DIFFERENT
    INSTRUMENTS!!!
    
    As it happens, I like Dolly's songwriting a lot more and so I listen
    to Dolly more (hey folks, do you know who wrote "I Will Always
    Love You", Whitney Houston's biggest hit?  Take a guess!)
    
    So the bottom line Brian is that we agree, you just don't know it
    because you have the wrong impression about what I do and
    (particularly) "do not" respect.

    Buck,
    
    There's no winning here - you've been branded as a "heavy metal" guitar
    player, and I am permanently branded as a techno-weenie.
    
    No matter how much we profess our appreciation for folks like Dolly Parton 
    people will never think otherwise.  ;-)
    
    And I'll bet I have more Madonna, Paul Abdul, Michael Jackson and
    Debbie Gibson albums (yeah, techno-weenies as a whole love those
    folks) than anyone else in here.  That doesn't matter either.
    
    According to Mike I'm biased against Christian music despite my
    appreciation of Keaggy, gospel, Amy Grant and Stryper.  (My favorite
    Broadway show of ALL time was "Purlie Victorious", mainly for the
    fusion of gospel singing with showtunes.)
    
    According to a dozen folks I'm anti-blues/R&B despite all the albums
    I have in those and despite the fact that I play mostly that in a band
    when we play our gigs at Stormy Monday Blues Cafe and that 3 of the
    4 submissions I've done on COMMUSIC and GUITAR tapes were blues songs.
    
    	db

>    I repeat: It's not that I don't "respect" Dolly Parton (an example you
>    mentioned), in fact I do respect her.   It's that my highest respect
    
    even in the morning?
    
>    (at the risk of further guff):  Barbara Mandrell.    She is not only a
>    great singer, entertainer and songwriter, but the music's best kept
>    secret is that this woman is incredible on at least a DOZEN DIFFERENT
>    INSTRUMENTS!!!
    
    not even I will touch this one!  

>    According to Mike I'm biased against Christian music despite my
>    appreciation of Keaggy, gospel, Amy Grant and Stryper.  (My favorite
    
    ...and I'm biased for it, so shoot me.

	I have no idea what all this has to do with Satriani!! I'm still
    	wondering!
    
    
OK...   I have to chime in on this one, I've kept silent too long!
    
        
   > There's no winning here - you've been branded as a "heavy metal" guitar
   > player, and I am permanently branded as a techno-weenie.
    
    Dave, it's OK to be a techno-weenie and there's still hope for Buck
    too!  ;^)'s (lighten up guys, I'm only funnin' with ya) 
    
    
   > No matter how much we profess our appreciation for folks like Dolly Parton 
   > people will never think otherwise.  ;-)
    
    It's a cross some of us have to bare Dave, move on with it! You can't
    make people understand (in general) what they chose not to believe.
    Move on with it!
    
    
    > And I'll bet I have more Madonna, Paul Abdul, Michael Jackson and
    > Debbie Gibson albums (yeah, techno-weenies as a whole love those
    > folks) than anyone else in here.  That doesn't matter either.
    
    This is TRUE, and I've been meaning to talk to you about this Dave.
    There's an antibiotic to clear this condition up ya know! Debbie
    Gibson (how embarrassing, now he tells the whole world...  OY VAY!)!! 
    
     ;^)'s
    
    
    > According to Mike I'm biased against Christian music despite my
    > appreciation of Keaggy, gospel, Amy Grant and Stryper.  (My favorite
    > Broadway show of ALL time was "Purlie Victorious", mainly for the
    > fusion of gospel singing with showtunes.)
    > According to a dozen folks I'm anti-blues/R&B despite all the albums
    > I have in those and despite the fact that I play mostly that in a band
    > when we play our gigs at Stormy Monday Blues Cafe and that 3 of the
    > 4 submissions I've done on COMMUSIC and GUITAR tapes were blues songs.
  
    RE: "Purlie Victorious"
    	Dave saw this show after listening to old blues albums at my house. I
    feel completely responsible! It must have been listening to all those
    Freddy King albums that over dosed him!   ;^)'s
    You know, "db" has the most diverse taste in music than anyone I
    know! He's the only guy I know that will start playing Broadway show tunes
    at a blues club! Yes, I said Blues Clubs! Dave plays in Blues clubs and
    each time we play one, he rips the place up! He may not be the BIGGEST
    and narrow minded blues fan (thank God), but he plays blues like he
    means it. He has honesty, sincerity and EMOTION in playing his music, not 
    just a few scales in the same key! OK, maybe not a good example, but
    he is probably the most "OPEN" minded musician I've ever met! He
    listens to everything, takes from it what he wants and puts it into
    places you wouldn't think possible. I admire that in a musician! I
    don't feel I need to explain Dave and you can all think what you want
    cause Dave will keep debating subjects because he loves a good debate
    and thank God we live in a country where nobody get shot for an
    opinion. I can't expect to have everyone like or love what I love
    or am emotional about. This is a good thing, and I don't have a problme 
    with it, nor will I lose any sleep with it.
    
    	I'd go on, but I have work to do!
    
    
    	Peace my brothers,
    			  Father Fred (who doesn't need to have people
                                       agree with him either and that's OK!)

>    > And I'll bet I have more Madonna, Paul Abdul, Michael Jackson and
>    > Debbie Gibson albums (yeah, techno-weenies as a whole love those
>    > folks) than anyone else in here.  That doesn't matter either.
>    
>    This is TRUE, and I've been meaning to talk to you about this Dave.
>    There's an antibiotic to clear this condition up ya know! Debbie
>    Gibson (how embarrassing, now he tells the whole world...  OY VAY!)!! 
    
    Yeah, Oxy-10.
    

    Debbie Gibson writes, arranges, performs and produces her own stuff.
    
    My opinion of her changed when I found out that she even did ALL of the
    sequencing for "Electric Youth".   If you have EVER done any sequencing
    (I realize that I am in GUITAR and not COMMUSIC) you'd be able to
    appreciate just what it takes to do something like that tune which is
    definitely a HOT sequence.
    
    I have yet to hear ONE song in a DEC compilation tape where the
    sequencing was even remotely comparable in sophistication that the
    production on that song, so if anyone is going to give any 'tude about
    Debbie Gibson, you better be prepared to face the fact that person you
    belittle can humble all of us.  
    
    Debbie did that sequence when she was around 16!
    
    She may have been marketed as a teen idol (I'd rather have my kids
    idolizing her than most other teen idols), but as much as I'd like to,
    it just can't be denied that she is a definitely a musical prodigy.
    
    Open-mindedness includes giving credit where credit is due.
    
    	db
    
    p.s. Gloria Estefan also does a lot of her own sequencing, but unlike
         Debbie, she apparently does get professionals to dress up her
         sequences.

    If you don't get this Little-Girl-Teeny-Bopper(tm) crap outta my note
    I'm gonna start one serious rathole in the Morse topic.

    Just goes to show you that sequencing isn't all that tough.  Even kids
    can do it!
    
    Greg

They certainly take in plenty via Nintendo.

    Quote from the guitarist Metropolis auditioned yesterday:
    
    	"Well... his stuff is OK, but basically it's all just
    	 guitar solos and I'm not really into that."

    Translation: "I can't play his stuff for squat, so I'm gonna slag it as
                  hard as I can."
    

and Morse's stuff isn't all solos?

I rollin'

dbii

    > and Morse's stuff isn't all solos?
    
    I'm surprised that you even ask that.
    
    Satch writes very "jam-oriented" tunes.   I think the best approximate
    description I've heard of Morse's composition style is "electronic
    chamber music" because there's so many instruments/parts blended
    together as opposed one focused instrument/part (i.e. "solo") as with
    Satriani.
    
    

    With all his composing skills, too bad Morse can't instill any emotion
    into his music.  Satch plays from the heart, which is where it all
    comes from, and where the rubber hits the road.

>    Translation: "I can't play his stuff for squat, so I'm gonna slag it as
>                  hard as I can."
    
    
================================================================================
Note 99.1157        Mutterings/DYHIW/DYLIW/party discussions        1157 of 1161
DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "db"                               10 lines  15-AUG-1994 08:00
                          -< Mikeys Morsetrophobic  >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    re:  Mickey
    
    > I was afraid they'd play some God-awful Morse tune so I didn't show up.
    
    SET MODE/HONEST_TRUTH
    
    You had nothing to fear.  I'm sure you know just how much I'd love to
    do a Morse tune but, we've never been able to play ANY Morse
    tunes - they're just too hard. 
    
    So we had to compromise... we whipped together a Satch tune (just for
    you in fact) in about 15 minutes.   

>    So we had to compromise... we whipped together a Satch tune (just for
>    you in fact) in about 15 minutes.   
    
    db, from what I've been told, Buck's been playing "Surfing with the
    Alien" since it came out in ~1987!  
    
    With all those keyboard parts on that tune, I'm not surprised it took a
    Morse fan 15 minutes to learn them.
    
    Mike

    
         With all of the bitching and moaning in this topic
    flooded into my brain, I went out and picked up "Coast
    to Coast."  I know it's an old one, but what the heck, 
    it was only $6.99.  
         Strange thing here with Steve Morse.  I've always
    enjoyed his column in GFTPM as well as the occasional 
    lessons within the pages of the guitar rags, but I never
    actually got out and picked up something by this guy!!
         After listening to this one, I must say that there's
    some stellar playing on this one within his unit.  This
    dude's quick, that's for sure.  I love hyper music, both
    speedwise and composition-based, and this recording does
    it pretty well.
         I ain't into this "who's better" deal, so leave me out.
    Just thought I'd post a late entry review right in the midst
    of this.  I guess that would put me in, huh?
    
    Later,
    Kev --
    

>    db, from what I've been told, Buck's been playing "Surfing with the
>    Alien" since it came out in ~1987!  
    
    Didn't take him very long from the time it was released until he
    could play it did it?
    

>                      -< Always check the bargain bin... >-
    
    I never see Satriani stuff there ;-)
    
    Kev, I know you're fairly new here, but db and I have been at this
    good-natured razzin' for quite some time.  If you look back through the
    old notes, you'll see that db really likes Satriani's stuff.  He's just
    playing devil's advocate with me.  The old notes will also tell you
    that I've always thought Morse sucked. ;-)

>    Didn't take him very long from the time it was released until he
>    could play it did it?
    
    Everyone in here knows Buck isn't your "average" guitarist.

    >>   -< Always check the bargain bin... >-
    
    >    I never see Satriani stuff there ;-)
    
    Satch's stuff went straight from the racks to the garbage.

    
     Don't take my input the wrong way.  It's the "good-
    natured fun" that prompted me to get out and snag 
    something I probably wouldn't have done.
    
    Thanks.  Keep bickering, it's ALL fun in here,
    Kev --
    

    > Everyone in here knows Buck isn't your "average" guitarist.
    
    Your average guitarist would never allow himself to listen to folks
    like Dolly Parton, Debbie Gibson, disco, etc.
    
    

>    Your average guitarist would never allow himself to listen to folks
>    like Dolly Parton, Debbie Gibson, disco, etc.
    
    Yeah, your average guitarist has better taste then that!
    

    you forgot the Go-Go's...

    BBST -- gawd, had forgotten about that gem!
    
    
    Buck's 0.02 on Satriani...
    
    Not of this World -- Brilliant!!  In the Top 5 guitar albums ever!
    
    Surfin With the Alien -- Near Brilliance.  Slicker production values
    		      sacrificed some of his scary guitar antics on NOTW.
    
    Dreaming #11 -- filler crap!
    
    Flying in a Blue Dream -- It didn't click with me.
    
    
    ...and that is the last lp I ever bought...

>>    Your average guitarist would never allow himself to listen to folks
>>    like Dolly Parton, Debbie Gibson, disco, etc.
    
>    Yeah, your average guitarist has better taste then that!
    
    One thing I've found common to almost all the guitarists I consider
    great is that they listen to a wide variety of stuff, and that
    inevitably ends up including stuff that "your average guitarist"
    would consider "uncool" or boring: classical, disco, Prince, country,
    Celtic, Michael Jackson, Kenny G, etc.
    
    I've heard all of those cited by various world-class players.

    so how many Satch albums does Morse have?  If he wants to be
    world-class, he'll have to buy all of them.  If Morse ever gets to
    world-class, Satch will buy some of his.

    Mikey, you missed the point.
    
    If all Morse ever listened to was 4/4 shuffle guitar jams, then he'd
    be like Satch and every other of Mike Varney's "guitar god du jour"
    INSTEAD of being the more complete player/writer that he is.
    
    	db

>    One thing I've found common to almost all the guitarists I consider
>    great is that they listen to a wide variety of stuff, and that
>    inevitably ends up including stuff that "your average guitarist"
>    would consider "uncool" or boring: classical, disco, Prince, country,
>    Celtic, Michael Jackson, Kenny G, etc.
>    
>    I've heard all of those cited by various world-class players.
    
    One thing I've found common to all noters that I consider great is that
    they can sense humor when they read it...
    
    ;^) (how many does it take?)

    >    INSTEAD of being the more complete player/writer that he is.
    
    yeah that Southern Steel (or whatever it's called) is a real P.O.W.(tm)
     (i.e., piece of work!).  You, Morse, and Mrs. Morse must have every
    copy known to man.

    > One thing I've found common to all noters that I consider great is
    > that they can sense humor when they read it...
    
    While I know that your note was entered in jest, there certainly more
    far more than an "air of truth" to it and I wanted to comment on
    that.  Perhaps I should've put something like:
    	
    	SET MODE/COMMENTING_ON_THE_TRUTH_BEHIND_THE_HUMOR
    
    like I usually do, but I just didn't bother.
    
    Sorry for the confusion.  You're obviously taking this more seriously
    than I am because I just presume by default that nobody means what
    they say, particularly Mikey.
    
    You don't REALLY think anyone could seriously think that Satriani is better 
    than Morse?
    
    Get real!
    
    	db

    >>    INSTEAD of being the more complete player/writer that he is.
    
    >yeah that Southern Steel (or whatever it's called) is a real P.O.W.(tm)
    > (i.e., piece of work)
    
    Yeah, no comparing that with a Satriani album.  Satriani albums
    of course run the gamut of compositional areas.
    
    I mean one tune may be a 4/4 shuffle jam at 120 bpm, the next...geez
    it could be a 4/4 shuffle jam at anything from 119.2 bpm to even 121.2 bpm.
    
    The breadth of Satriani's compositional skill IS indeed astounding.
    

    RE: .268
    
    I dunno Dave (db), neither one of them dudes play with any emotion to
    speak of...  wait a minute, I remember reading something about a jam
    where Satch and Morse attempted to play with emotion, but instead
    decided to play tunes that they both knew and started playing old 
    "Broadway Show" tunes instead. I also heard that they kept folks 
    entertained for days. Something about that I-IV-V thing that kept getting 
    in the way of all those notes! I couldn't believe it either! OK, EVERYBODY 
    SING! "I'M JUST WILD ABOUT...  " hey Buck, I don't hear you singing!"
    OK, one more time! Everybody! "I'M JUST WILD ABOUT...  " 
    
    
    
    
    				Huh? 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    			Where did everybody go? 
    
    
    
    
    
    	I sure know how to clear a room!        ;^)
    
    
    
    	Fred (who sees humor in everything these days)
    

    > Who in the hell is this Steve Morse dood anyway?
    
    Morse is Satch's musical idol.

    re: db
    
    Serious?  Moi?  Surely you jest...
    
    ;^)

    Idol?  Satch *IS* the idol.  Morse even starts each conferencing off by
    bowing toward Long Island, NY and San Francisco.  He says Satch's
    birthplace and home is like Mecca to him.
    
    

    Dave Letterman's Top 10 list from last night:
    
    Why Joe Satriani rulz and Steve Morse drulz!
    --------------------------------------------
    10. Joe uses more squealies. 
     9. Steve is a blonde. 
     8. Joe has the King of the Underworld in his last name.  
     7. Steve is left-handed and tries to play right-handed. 
     6. Joe has soul, emotive-playing, and chops for days. 
     5. Steve plays in re-hashed tribute bands to pay the bills. 
     4. Joe doesn't have any used CD's in his bin at the store. 
     3. Steve has nothing but used CD's in his bin at the store. 
     2. Joe only plays 24-fret guitars. 
    ...and the #1 reason is:  
     1. Steve doesn't use 24-fret guitars because he can't count that high.

    Boys, boys, boys. I realize you're (mostly) joking, but hasn't this
    feud gone on long enough? Let's imagine a world where your Satriani
    and your Morse play side by side!
    
    Besides, Holdsworth renders them both entirely irrelevant, anyway.
    
    8^)
    
    Tom

    > Besides, Holdsworth renders them both entirely irrelevant, anyway.
    
    Amen!!!!!
    
    -b

>    Idol?  Satch *IS* the idol.  Morse even starts each conferencing off by
>    bowing toward Long Island, NY and San Francisco. 
    
    I suppose it's not inaccurate to say "he bows towards LI".  But most
    people not under a Satch-induced delirium would simply describe it
    as "farting towards LI".

>    Boys, boys, boys. I realize you're (mostly) joking, but hasn't this
>    feud gone on long enough? Let's imagine a world where your Satriani
>    and your Morse play side by side!
    
    It'll never happen.  Satch doesn't know how to play rhythm - he can
    only solo.

>     5. Steve plays in re-hashed tribute bands to pay the bills. 
    
    Um...what exactly would you call playing with Deep Purple?
    

>>     5. Steve plays in re-hashed tribute bands to pay the bills. 
    
>    Um...what exactly would you call playing with Deep Purple?
    
    I'd call it "an undeserved honor".
    

    RE: .278
    
    HEY! LEAVE LONG ISLAND OUT OF THIS!!!!!	
    
    
    		Fred (ex-Islander)

    Morse's "breaking wind" earned him the honor of Nigel Tufnel's backup. 
    Nigel played circles around him.  On the other hand, the "Satch Tapes"
    video showed Nigel heaping mountains of praise because of the skills of
    the Great Satriani.

    > video showed Nigel heaping mountains of praise because of the skills
    > of the Great Satriani.
    
    Nigel was also ready to quit guitar when he heard Yngwie.
    
    We've now seen twice the evidence that he's easily impressed by "flash".
    
    Morse goes for "substance".  The only kind of substance Satch and 
    and his cultists go far is the chemical kind.

>    Morse goes for "substance".  The only kind of substance Satch and 
>    and his cultists go far is the chemical kind.
    
    

    >> The only kind of substance Satch and and his cultists go far is 
    >> the chemical kind.
    
    > I hope you're still joking
    
    I'm still joking, but your worship of Satch demonstrates that
    you're still toking.

    I don't hear much about his personal life, other than he's married. 
    Sometimes I wonder if he's substance free or into some New Age thing.

    Don't know.
    
    Do know that MORSE is tee-totaller and not into any "New Age thing"
    (and I think I know the kinda things you're referring to).

    Vai on the other hand it a different story.  He's into some wierd
    metaphysical stuff.

    Hey db, just how many Satch albums do you own?

according to the usenet deep purple group, Satch wants to stay in Purple
"Forever"

back to the rathole in progress

dbii

    well, all I could say then would be
    
    GOOD RIDDANCE!

    > Hey db, just how many Satch CDs do you own?
    
    Hmmm... well... let's see...
    
    There's one I use to balance the dining table... then there's the one
    that I used in my kinetic sculpture/windchime thing.  Oh yeah, almost
    forgot about the two dowstairs at the bar (they make great drink
    coasters).
    
    But I can honestly tell you that "Surfing has not left my CD player
    for 6 months".
    
    
    
    Damn CD player stopped working 6 months ago with Surfing in it and it
    wasn't worth the trouble of trying to pry the CD out of it.

    Well that settles it then.  You have 2 Satch CD's and I have *ZERO* Morse 
    albums.

    > Well that settles it then.  You have 2 Satch CD's and I have *ZERO* 
    >  Morse albums.    
    
    It indeed does settle it. 
    
    Not having ANY Morse albums proves rather conclusively that you don't
    know what you're talking about when it comes to Morse and thus, I'm in
    a better position to just who is better.

    
    
    
    
    If you boys don't behave we're going home RIGHT NOW!!!!
    
    
    
    
    Don't make me stop this car...
    
    
    

Getting to the point I'm watching for their names and next-unseening them %^)

sorry guys (8^o

    I told ya, db, I borrowed a Morse CD from a co-worker.

I agree with .296 and .297.  If you guys want to have this inane sixth-grade
style argument that's fine with me, but why don't you do it by mail and spare
the rest of us?

-Hal

    I think you guys fail to understand that this is not a "sixth grade
    argument" but is in fact a sort of parody of a sixth grade argument.
    
    Mike and I are NOT serious.  However, it has been going on awhile
    and I might agree that the humor in it has been completely spent.

    > but is in fact a sort of parody of a sixth grade argument.
    
Bawahahaha! I knew that ;^)  I weren't mad!  Yous guys have really been at
a long time tho 8^)

re: .300

>    I think you guys fail to understand that this is not a "sixth grade
>    argument" but is in fact a sort of parody of a sixth grade argument.

I believe you, but nonetheless even the parody gets old after a few
hundred iterations. :-)

-Hal

    >    Mike and I are NOT serious.  However, it has been going on awhile
    
    We're not?!  Oh, okay then I'll stop.
    
    BTW - we're just making up for the month I was off.  db missed me
    harassing him.  honest.

    > db missed me harassing him.  honest.
    
    It was rough, but with help from my friends, I got thru it.

Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <33b659$h7k@search01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com

Well, this morning I called Thames Talent,
Deep Purple's management company, in
Greenwich, Connecticut, USA.

I was told that Joe Satriani will NOT be
with DP during their upcoming tour of
New Zealand & Australia. The guitarist
on the tour will be STEVE MORSE.

As for Satriani, I was told that he was only
ever considered a 'guest guitarist' for the
band, and he might or might not rejoin as a
guest in the future.

I asked about any chance of an upcoming US
tour and was told that it doesn't look likely.

For me, I'm very disappointed that Satch has
left, and reading between the lines, I think
for good. DP with Satriani were musically 
AWESOME, and was looking forward to seeing
them perform. Fortunately I have 'The Battle',
a soundboard recording of the Osaka show last
December, so I'll just keep on playing that
over & over again, & dreaming of what might
have been.

Tom.

    I'm not saying anything

    Crimany, the only gig Morse can get is doing lame cover shows!

    > Crimany, the only gig Morse can get is doing lame cover shows!
    
    One deep breath....
    
    Two deep breaths....
    
    Three f*cking deep breaths...
    
    ;-)  ;-)  ;-)  ;-)

    Nice one, Greg.  You learn well, young Housemeister.
    
    db, anyone can fake an internet news release.  I've done it lots of
    times.  We all know Morse issued that release in hopes that it would
    come true.

    Yes, Mike, that certainly must be it.

    In truth, Morse and Satch are very close friends.  In fact, they argue
    all the time over who's the more 'emotional' noter, Blickstein or
    Heiser.
    

    I win that easily.

    HAHAH!  GOOD one, Rick!!

    > I win that easily.
    
    No, I won incontestably when you revealed that your familiarity with Morse
    records was neither remotely sufficient nor remotely comparable to my
    familiarity with Satch records.
    
    I just thought I'd be gracious in victory and throw you a little clam.

    I was as familiar as one can get to become sufficiently knowledgeable
    without becoming physically ill.  It's a tough task, but someone had to
    do it.

    Anyway, it's kind of like Yngwie and his altar ego arguing who the most 
    humble person is.

    >> Anyway, it's kind of like Yngwie and his altar ego arguing who the most
                                                -----
    I didn't realize he was religious...
    

    yeah, he worships himself.

    >  I was as familiar as one can get to become sufficiently
    > knowledgeable without becoming physically ill. 
    
    Well... Mike... y'know... the first time I ever tried caviar I also
    got physically ill.
    
    Morse's music is a lot like caviar - it's quality is not apparently
    to those with less than refined taste.

>    Morse's music is a lot like caviar - it's quality is not apparently
>    to those with less than refined taste.
    
    well since you don't like caviar, you just hung yourself.

    > well since you don't like caviar, you just hung yourself.
    
    Why don't you send me a pound of it and find out if I like caviar.
    
    	db

>    Morse's music is a lot like caviar 
    
    Yeah, a lotta people say they like it 'cause they think they're
    supposed to, but when you think about what it really is, it's something
    pretty disgusting.

>    Morse's music is a lot like caviar 
    
    >Yeah, a lotta people say they like it 'cause they think they're
    >supposed to, but when you think about what it really is, it's something
    >pretty disgusting.
    
    Morse's music? Or caviar? :-)
    
    Brian
    (who knows better than to stick his nose into this, but just did
    anyway)

You EEEEEdiot!

>    (who knows better than to stick his nose into this, but just did
>    anyway)
    
    Yeah, I don't stick my nose into anything that smells like that!
    

Hey, you guys can trash all the guitar players you want, but when you
start trashing caviar I have to protest!!! :-) :-) :-)

-Hal

well now, I've gotta confess I have heard one Morse album I could listen to over
and over again..."Hi tension wires". I can listen to every Satch album over
and over again...but I'd rather hear deep purple than either of them..

Does this mean I like cavier?

dbii

    I saw Satriani once, when he toured with Mick Jagger.  There was
    another guitar player as well Jimmy Rip? .  He was really alot 
    like Keith Richards (Rip).  So much so it was almost a Parody.
    
    Now I have never been into Modern players in the guitar album type
    mould, you know, Vai, Eddie Van Halen,CC,and basically heavy metal
    players.  But Satriani was avery good player.  He did his spot
    with the two handed tapping stuff, but it was the rock style playing
    I liked the best.  
    
    I also have that concert on video, and during the telecast they 
    showed a bit where the band went in and played just a normal shitty
    bar like the rest of us play, it was great to see such large names
    playing on a scummy stage and having crappy fold back etc 8^).
    
    
    I only saw Morse once, on TV with Albert Lee on our answer to Letterman
    he had just got of the plane, he looked like sh*t, and it may be unfair
    to judge him on this performance, but I will any way 8^).
    
    He was a very technical player, he was playing alongside Albert Lee, so 
    it's a tough gig, but Morse seemed to be  (and this really has nothing
    to do with chops, but more stage presence) very stiff moving, not much
    like the rock player type body movements we all expect.
    
    I would like to see more of him.
    
    Now.....caviar......
    
    
    
    
    
    P.K.
    
    The one thing I got from it was though.....gee they are very good.

    > He did his spot with the two handed tapping stuff, but it was the rock
    > style playing I liked the best.  
    
    Yeah, Satriani, like all other Eddie wanna-bes, has made all those
    tired-old Eddie-tricks the forefront of his "style".
    
>    I only saw Morse once, on TV with Albert Lee on our answer to Letterman
>    he had just got of the plane, he looked like sh*t, and it may be unfair
>    to judge him on this performance, but I will any way 8^).
    
>    He was a very technical player, he was playing alongside Albert Lee, so 
>    it's a tough gig, but Morse seemed to be  (and this really has nothing
>    to do with chops, but more stage presence) very stiff moving, not much
>    like the rock player type body movements we all expect.
    
    Ummm... well, you did say your were judging him on his "performance",
    and without a doubt is not nearly the poseur that Satriani is.  He
    does not prance around the stage, grimmace (all those guitar poseur)
    moves, although I ONCE did see him jump off a drum riser when he was
    playing with Kansas, where that stuff is mandatory.
    
    In short, Morse is definitely NOT into the "rock player type" stuff
    that Satch is like body movements, Eddie emulation, etc.
    
    So while your note was an interesting comparison of what we could call
    "stage presence", I couldn't help but notice that you didn't say
    anything about the music itself.
    
    	db

>    Yeah, Satriani, like all other Eddie wanna-bes, has made all those
>    tired-old Eddie-tricks the forefront of his "style".
    
    Eddie couldn't do half of what Satch does.  Especially those
    cross-handed arpeggiated hammers.  Morse probably can't do those
    either.
    
    >    and without a doubt is not nearly the poseur that Satriani is.  He
    
    I've seen Satch 3 times and have never seen him posing on stage.  He
    usually stays within a 5' circle.  Everyone makes facial expressions
    when playing with their eyes closed.  That's when you're really feeling
    it.  Even Keaggy does that.
    
>In short, Morse is definitely NOT into the "rock player type" stuff
>    that Satch is like body movements, Eddie emulation, etc.
    
    That speaks volumes.  Morse isn't a rock player.  It takes emotion to
    do that.

>    Eddie couldn't do half of what Satch does.  Especially those
>    cross-handed arpeggiated hammers.  Morse probably can't do those
>    either.
    
    Nor would he be inclined to follow in Eddie's path.
    
>    I've seen Satch 3 times and have never seen him posing on stage.  He
>    usually stays within a 5' circle.  Everyone makes facial expressions
>    when playing with their eyes closed.  That's when you're really feeling
>    it.  Even Keaggy does that.
    
    Geez, you must've seen him when he was doped up.  He may not jump
    around like Motley Crue, but he definitely holds the guitar up, out,
    etc.
    
    And when I've seen him he spent mega-bucks on a massive vari-lite
    system because he knew the music alone would put people to sleep.
    
    Morse, of course, just says it all with music.  It doesn't need any
    crutches.
    
>    That speaks volumes.  Morse isn't a rock player. 
    
    Indeed it does.
    
    I agree 100%.  Satriani is your standard rock guitar heroe.  Morse
    is so much more than that (as 5 straight "Best Overall Guitarist" wins will
    attest).
    
    

>    And when I've seen him he spent mega-bucks on a massive vari-lite
>    system because he knew the music alone would put people to sleep.
    
    ...and he's able to do that because he has the fan-base to play in the
    large venues.
    
>    Morse, of course, just says it all with music.  It doesn't need any
>    crutches.
    
    he couldn't do it anyway.  They don't have the room at Sir Morgan's
    Cove or Rhythms.  Besides, the truth is that Morse was trying to get
    Rhythms the night we were supposed to meet.  They picked your band
    instead.

    > Besides, the truth is that Morse was trying to get Rhythms the night we
    > were supposed to meet.  They picked your band instead.
    
    The reason why they picked my band was they heard you were going to be
    there and they were worried about Morse's security.
    
    They wanted to avoid a Monica Seles type thing where some deranged fan
    of a lesser player attacks the #1 so that the lesser player moves up.

>    They wanted to avoid a Monica Seles type thing where some deranged fan
>    of a lesser player attacks the #1 so that the lesser player moves up.
    
    FAN?!  Who you callin' a fan?!  I may be deranged but I'm no fan of
    Morse!

    re musical style
    
    	The song Albert Lee and Steve Morse played was a country tune. For
    some reason I assume that that is not generally Morse's area,whereas
    that's right up the old Albert garden path.
    
    	It was something like The Albert Lee allstar band.
    
    I remember thinking at the time, that Morse probably wasn't in
    his real music enviroment. All the written reviews of the concerts
    were raving about his technical ability though, I'm interested in
    checking some of his stuff out though, but when you live in Oz you
    get used to missing out on such stuff.
    
    
    P.K.
    

    
    
    Don't worry, P.K., in a few years we'll just Email the .WAV file to
    you...just as soon as that fiber hits our systems...
    

    re: Heiser
    
    Nice try..... NOT!
    
    re: KnightP
    
    It sounds like what you saw was a semi-regular thing Morse does with
    Lee called "Biff Baby's All-Stars".   
    
    That's definitely not his "environment" but NOT because it's country,
    but rather because it's not his band and he didn't write the music.
    
    I'd suggest if you really want to give Morse a fair listen, my
    recommendation for a "first" record is "Dregs of the Earth" by the
    Dregs.   Listen to "Pride of the Farm" and I think you'll agree that
    he can DEFINITELY ABSOLUTELY, NO_IF_ANDS_OR_BUTS play country.
    
    Although, a lot of more moderate Morse fans like "High Tension Wires"
    which was a very different album for Morse.  More "New Agey",
    introspective and even MORE emotional.  It's his only true "solo" album
    (i.e. not a "band project").
    
    	db

    
    re: last 
    
    Very good reference David, I remember many moons ago, when I picked
    up the tape, I played that country tune over and over again and 
    made attempt to memick that on my guitar.  Excellent guitar player 
    this Morse dude, I think Satriani is also technically good but 
    more of a showman. I also think that the only common denominator 
    between the two is the guitar as they come from two totaly different
    classes. Morse does indeed require a more mature audience. 
    
    Shaw

    >                         -< Satch can't play country >-
    
    if he did, I'd burn his CD's!

    He plays banjo on one of his songs...

    but it's a 6-string banjo for a blues song.

    >>Satch can't play country
    >if he did, I'd burn his CD's!
    
    Why wait that long?
    
    My guess is that most of us felt that note dbii posted about
    Morse replacing Satriani in Deep Purple was bogus.
    
    Ummm... it may still be a bogus rumor, but that rumor finally hit
    the Internet mailing list for the Dregs and with some low-level
    substantiation as well!
    
    I hope the rumor is false.  I mean, sure, if it were true, it certainly
    further decimates Mikes position (already in its death throes) to have
    Morse REPLACING Satriani, but I'd rather have Morse playing with 
    the Dregs and leave the cover gigs to Satriani (if only he could
    hold onto them).
    
    Maybe Satch will go crawling back on his knees to Mick Jagger and pray
    for another shot.

    I can now send Morse E-mail so I'll ask him what the real story is.

    He probably has lots of time to answer...

    but not between the hours of 7-8pm.  The Dregs have a nightly reunion
    tour in Steve's garage.

   re: .345  And I am *sure* you will.  Please do let me/us know what's
   going on with the DP gig though.  I'd really like to see what's going
   on with the 2nd rate player trying to take Blackmore's spot.  :-)
   (What's he doing these days anyway;  still with Rainbow?)

   re: about 50 back, I agree, the hero worship stuff has gotten a little
   thin.  I know you're not all ("both") serious, but please stop wearing
   out my "next unseen" key.  It's been a funny interaction at most points,
   though.  Thanks for that.

   Besides, we all know Clapton is god.  Didn't they say so in the 60s?
   (Just kidding.)  And we all know "da blues" roools.  :-)

   You guys are too much...  :-)

   -- Sam
   

    And as I journeyed, I came near Tower Records.  Lo and behold, as I
    entered to purchase "High Tension Wires", suddenly there shined
    round about me a light from heaven:  And I fell to the earth, and heard a 
    voice saying unto me, "Mike, Mike, why persecutest thou me?"  And I 
    said, "Who art thou, Lord?" And the Lord said, "I am Jesus whom thou 
    persecutest: you shalt not forsake me in buying vile disgusting Morse CD's."
    And I trembling and astonished said, "Lord, what wilt thou have me to
    do?"  And the Lord said unto me, "Arise, and go into the city, and play
    Satriani, for he is the chose one; the apple of my eye.  The Lord your
    God will only play Marshalls like Satriani.  The Lord your God calls
    MIDI an abomination and cursed is the pagan Morse."  And the people which 
    journeyed with me stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.  
    Their fear overwhelmed them and vowed to never purchase a Morse CD.  And I 
    arose from the earth; and when me eyes were opened, I saw nobody: but they 
    led me by the hand, and brought me into the city.  There I cranked Satriani 
    and swore to never ponder the purchase of a Morse CD ever again.  The
    sight of my eyes returned to me yet after three days for my sin unto
    the Lord.

    Wow, fake a conversation with god to try and influence other people.
    
    Mike, you oughta be a TV evangelist.

>>    voice saying unto me, "Mike, Mike, why persecutest thou me?"  And I 
>>    said, "Who art thou, Lord?" And the Lord said, "I am Jesus whom thou 
>>    persecutest: you shalt not forsake me...
    
    OK Mike...  Now that you've had this "conversion" I suppose you'll
    need to change the first letter of your name.
    
    
    
    
    

    >    Mike, you oughta be a TV evangelist.
    
    I just received a vision:
    
    Send me $10M by next Wed. or God's gonna off me. ;-)

I'm howling!

    Mike, the check is in the mail...

    >Send me $10M by next Wed. or God's gonna off me. ;-)
    
    I've been half-expecting Bob Palmer to try this approach too. :-)
    
    Brian

    Why not, it worked for Oral!

    Amazingly enough, I put on "The Extremist" a couple of nights ago and
    now I think that's a great album!!!
    
    Better than "Flying" but NOT (IMHO) as good as "Surfing".  Actually,
    I think the best parts of Flying are much better than the best of
    Extremist but Extremist is more consistently good.
    
    Thus... add another album to the list of albums that db initially hated
    but ended up liking.
    
    	db

re: .357

Aw, c'mon guys!  This is getting entirely too weird!!! :-) :-) :-)

-Hal

    It's the end of time!!!

    Since you love the variety of Morse, you will love "Time Machine." 
    There are tunes on it that are completely different from anything he's
    ever done.
    
    Mike

    First The Eagles, now Mike and dB.  
    
    Hell really has frozen over.
    
    P.K.

    I sure wish this had come out during the "Satch vs Morse" debates
    because to me it's the news that would have "settled it".  ;-)
    
    Anyway:
    
    	There's a rumor that was posted in HEAVY_METAL that Satch's
    	next album is gonna be (get this):
    
    			ALL BLUES!!!!!!
    
    	and that it's being produced by "some guy who produced a lot
    	of Beatles albums" which I would think would be George Martin.
    
    Could it be true:   Satriani is following the "trend" set by Eric
    Clapton????
    
    	db

    I would take anything posted in HM with a ton of Morton Salt.
    
    On the other hand, that's one thing I've always loved about Satch: He
    does have a major blues streak in him.  If you can't hear blues in his
    arrangements, you aren't listening.
    
    Mike

    
    	He did a "blues" song on "The Extremist".
    

    Shawn, {SLAP!} just because it doesn't say "blues" doesn't mean it
    isn't.

    >> [Satch] does have a major blues streak in him.  If you can't hear blues
    >> in his arrangements, you aren't listening.
    
    Yes, like most blues guys, he uses pull-offs and hammer-ons where
    really good/complete shredders would have had the additional option 
    of picking the notes for variety.
    
    	;-)

    
    	RE: Mike
    
    	My point was that he did a song for "The Extremist" that was a
    	blues song.  Titled as such and obviously blues-influenced.
    

    Oh yeah, Joe Satriani just OOZES blues...
    
    NOT!
    
    I mean, Gary Moore very effectively made the switch from Over-The-Top
    metal shredder to Blues Master imvho ... Satch?  I'll have to hear it
    to believe it...

    Would anyone consider the surfin' type songs to be under the blues
    umbrella?  I think they are.
    
    Here's some blues-influenced songs (imo):
    
    Time Machine
    ------------
    All Alone - no brainer; Billie Holiday cover
    Saying Goodbye
    
    Extremist
    ---------
    Friends
    Cryin'
    Motorcycle Driver
    New Blues
    
    Flying IABD
    -----------
    Mystical Potato Head Groove Thing
    I Believe
    Big Bad Moon
    The Phone Call
    The Forgotten (both parts)
    Into the Light
    
    Surfin' WTA - tougher album to peg
    -----------
    Satch Boogie
    maybe Always with you, Always with me
    
    Dreaming #11
    ------------
    Crush of Love
    
    Not of this Earth - been a while since I heard this one
    -----------------
    Rubina

    Why can't we all just live and peace and pray EXTREMELY HARD that this
    rumor is false.
    
    I'm sure the bluesers have no more want of Satch joining their camp
    than we have of him leaving ours.
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

    
    	Well, I'd be very curious to hear what a player like Satch
    	would do with blues.  db, this their camp / our camp is kinda
    	old, isn't it?  I'm sure he's not totally changing directions,
    	just taking a brief tour.  And I don't blame him for joining
    	the bandwagon for more recognition.  Musicians like him 
    	deserve monetary rewards for what they've given to music.
    
    	I would look at it like how Michael Jordan or Shaq, etc...
    	get the extra megabucks for commercials.  
    
    	And I can just imagine how players like him must think when they
    	jam over a blues progression.  There's a feeling of freedom
    	when you can play without over analyzing the chord progressions.
    
    	And I'm sure there will be some cool arrangements going on.
    
    	Anyway, I'll pick it up.
    
    	Tom
    

    This is exactly why Satch has experience the success that other
    shredders only dream about.  The blues has mass appeal and Satch's
    arrangements are greatly influenced by it.  The rest would do well to
    pay attention.
    
    Mike

They played a new Satriani song last night on WAAF's "Love it or Shove it".
It was pretty cool, not too fast, a little bluesy, and alot of wah.  I forget
what it was called, but I don't know if it'll be on anymore since 
95% (yes, ninety-five%) of the voters who called in said "SHOVE IT!"

MIKE

    
    	Well, 80% of the WAAF listeners are complete idiots, so what does
    	that reduce the actual "shove it" number to?
    
    	95 x 80% = 76%
    
    	So that leaves an actual "shove it" of 24%.
    

Bzzzt .... you do not pass today's math comprehension quiz.    :-)

Jim

    
    	You might argue against my opinion, but the math is correct.
    

    
    	Oops ... OK, you got me.  8^)
    
    
    	95 x 80% = 76% of "shove it" people are "wrong"
    
    	5% had originally said "love it"
    
    	Total "love it" now 81%, and "shove it" now 19%
    

    Isn't WAAF the station where 9 out of 10 LGTB'S (Little Girl Teeny Boppers) 
    prefer the Bay City Rollers to JonBombJovi?!

Article 62758 of alt.guitar.tab:
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From: John Faber  <jfaber@isp.net>
Newsgroups: alt.guitar.tab
Subject: WWW.SATRIANI.COM
Date: 7 Oct 1995 08:45:49 GMT
Organization: ISP Networks

The Official Joe Satriani Home page is here! 

Check it out...

www.satriani.com

Guitar Tab Books Available! 

Created by ISP Networks, Bill Graham Mangement and Joe Satriani

    Anyone have Satch's new CD yet?  I hear it's out in the U.K. already.
    
    Mike

    
    	Yup, I bought it the day it came out.
    
    	He plays some blues stuff, and when he's not doing that he's
    	staying in chartered territory ... unemotional noodling.
    
    	8^)
    

    > He plays some blues stuff,
    
    Thanks dude, ya just saved me 10 bucks.
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

Live long and prosper db

    Hate to tell you db, the Nimoy album is a blues record too
    
    :-)
    

    I'll have to go pick it up then!

    I wouldn't consider "If I Had A Hammer" a blues song!

    re.382
    
    I'm a fan of Joe's and really liked the Extremist but as for the new
    album...
    
    I 'heard' it on the day I received it and didn't bother playing it
    again.  I 'listened' to it last night just to see if I'd missed
    anythihng.  I managed to get through the first 7 tracks.  There's some
    really nice guitar tones but as was mentioned before, the term
    'noodling' springs to mind.  Nothing sticks out as a memorable piece of
    music. :-(
    
    He's on tour in the UK soon.
    
    tmp

    
    I've saw Joe Twice on tour in the UK,th first time he blew me away,the
    second time he was quite boring.The end of the show had a 15 minutes
    improvised Jazz-jam and was very dull!
    
    
    						ian

    I, too, purchased the new CD the other night (while I was searching 
    for a Van Halen CD on which I might find inspired bass lines by Mr.
    Anthony). While I didn't jump up from the sofa, thrust my fist in the
    air, and shout "YES!", like I did the first time I heard "The
    Extremist", I'm still glad I got it. A couple of tracks simply aren't
    worth a damn... the rest will make good stuff to listen to while reading
    or working on motorcycles. As a bonus, there's some pleasant bass stuff
    by Nathan East to play along with.
    
    I really like most all of Satriani's stuff because there are seldom 
    any vocals to take beautiful music and reduce it to being just
    another song.

    I bought it yesterday too.  Fortunately, I'm not a blueser snob like db
    so I can enjoy it.  I have several blues CD's in my collection and this
    one fits in very nicely with them.
    
    Mike ;-)

    > I have several blues CD's in my collection and this one fits in very
    > nicely with them.
    
    Hmmm... maybe I oughta get it too.   It would "fit" in nicely with
    where I keep my blues collection too because my dining room table 
    still isn't quite level.
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

    Nearly 400 messages about a scrambled "brian"?
    Anyone even own a brain?   :-)
    

    
    I know, I mean I'm a little fried, but I'm definitely not scrambled.
    
    -b(rian)

    My "brian" is just fine, thank you.

    You're right, of course....I just suffer from Dain Bramage.
    Mike
    

    How interesting, last night my house suffered from "drain damage".

    playing Satch backwards will cure that instantly.

    I heard a tune off of Satriani's new CD (self titled on Relativity
    label).  Think the name was "Cool #9" or something like that.  Gotta
    tell ya' I was impressed by that!  Very nice groove - overplaying not
    heard, etc.  Is the whole CD like this cut ?   Thought it was way
    cool.
    
    From someone who owns none of his CD's...
    /pc
    

    That's track 1.  There's a lot of similar bluesy tracks on there, but
    Satch is never the same twice.  Variety is one of the great things that
    makes his music enjoyable.  There is no shredding on this album in a HM
    sense.  Mostly blues.
    
    Mike