Conference napalm::guitar

    
    Jeffrey, you're not thinking of heaving your GK are you?
    
    I haven't seen the new crates...I don't know if they're even any
    different than the old ones. The old ones were kinda lousy tone
    wise. The new ones might be good, I mean, C.C. Deville usez
    them and gets a decent tone.
    
    wjb

    I don't know about the individual heads, but I played a 2-12 60
    watt w/Celestions about 3 years ago.  It was incredibly LOUD.  Tone
    was pretty good.  
    
    I have a C-160 GT which is a 1-12 combo w/a Celestion.  It sounds -ok-,
    not really marvelous.  It's got a pretty good clean tone and I like the
    distortion.  It sounds pretty cold to me, but not quite as bad as most
    of the solid state amps I've used.  Very reliable, it's been beat on
    and moved (by a moving company) cross country twice, in the last 4
    years and it still looks and plays like new.  It faired a lot better
    than my Hiwatt...
    
    The new heads are probably different circuitry, so I can't really
    make any judgements on them. 
                                
    Greg

    What is the general consensus of Crate's smaller-sized practice amps
    as compared to competitors such as Peavey and Marshall?
    
    Mike

    You talking about the little bitty ones?  Like under 20wts?
    
    My opinion:   Less expensive than Marshall, sound better than PV.
    
    I like the Crates, myself, but check out the little Dean Markley
    practice amps too...
    
    Greg

    I played a Crate all tube stack yesterday (was demoing a guitar).  This
    is a new all tube head designed by Lee Jackson.  It was really pretty
    good sounding, for what it is.  50wts, three switchable "channels"
    (actually two channels with seperate EQ, but one has two switchable
    gain settings).  Fairly versatile in sound, and responsive (in lower
    gain settings), as a good tube amp should be.  A little buzzy on the
    lead channel, but almost all high gain amps are.  Even the "B" channel
    of my JCM900 is kind of buzzy. Rolling off the treble some seemed to
    help.  Very good bass response!
    
    Not bad sounding at all for a head that *lists* for $650...

    Greg

I have a question about the small Crate amps. My son wants an amp for the 
house. He's just getting his first electric guitar. We saw a Crate 30w with 
two channels in a store in Chelmsford last Saturday. Seemed like a decent 
amp for $95. Since I know nothing of amplifiers, I thought I'd ask for some 
inputs from some of you who are familiar with this stuff. I think the model 
was 15x-something. Solid state, but not a bad sound. Any comments??

thanks
leo

    
    I've played with one in the local music rip-off shop and I was quite
    impressed, for in house use and small gigs I reckon it would be ideal
    try and get one with the tube front end....can't remember the model
    no. tho' but that was the best of the bunch I tried.
    
    	J
    

    I've owned/used a Crate G60XL, which is an all-transistor 60-watt
    two-channel guitar amp with a 12" speaker.  I paid $210 for it in
    August of 1990.  It's a good basic guitar amp and a good value for the
    money.  I have no complaints about the sound, either.
    \Gary

     I've had a Crate CR112 amp since forever, but I don't have
     an owner's/user's manual.  Does anyone out there have one
     that I could look at before I spring for one from Crate?

     -johnb
     RDVAX::BIRCSAK

    Could someone give a review/opinion of the newer Crate tube amps?
    I currently own a small, 20 watt Crate which is solid state, but
    I'd like to invest in a tube amp. I'm looking for something that
    pushes between 40-60 watts. Any idea of what I should expect to
    pay?
    
    Suggestions, anybody?
    
    BTW, I live in the central Massachusetts area and am currently
    looking for the nearest Crate authorized dealer. Ditto, on the
    suggestions........
    
    
    Thanks!
    Mike

I tried out a stealth 50, all tube and it was a smokin' little rig...

dbii

    Hi dbii!
              What price range are we talking about for the stealth 50?
    
    Mike

    Music 1 in Chelmsford has a lot of Crate stuff as well as Ampeg, which
    are now the same company.
    
    	Music 1
    	75 Summer St.
    	Chelmsford, MA 01824
    	508-256-4051
    
    	Ken Lemire is the store's owner.
    
    I have never been fond of their solid state amps for sound, price, nor
    looks. Tubes are something else, & I haven't heard them yet. I would
    look to compare theirs to the new Peavey Classic line $$$ for $$$ etc.
    
    Paul                                
    
    

seems like the stealth 50 was ~$500-600 but I dunno, it's 12ax7's and EL84's

that;s about all I remember, Al no longer carries Crate...

dbii

    EL-84's or EL-34's ?
    (HINT: It would take a boatload of EL-84's to get 50 "real" watts.
    
    Who's Al ?
    
    Paul 

    I've played the older solid state Crate and thought that they were
    pretty usable units. I've also worked on the innerds of a few and
    thought that they were built well.

    Recently, however, GP did a tube-combo shootout piece that was, if I
    recall correctly, kind of rough on the Crate specimen. You may want to
    check that out. Maybe someone knows which issue it was published in.

    --Ron

    I bought a Crate Stealth 50 just a few months ago...
    The store gave me a hell of a deal and I walked away with the foot
    pedal ( for the channel switch ) and full warranty for $600 ( a round
    figure as I don't have the sales slip with me).
    It is a beauty for a smaller amp.
    I was also told that the tubes would last a while and wouldn't be
    outragious to replace should they pop.
    It also has the flexiblity to add to an existing system or use as a
    start of a sound "barrier".
    In my opinion I got my full $ worth and I haven't tried all of the
    volume ... yet B*)...
    
    Chris Vermette
    

    RE: power amp tubes and the stealth 50
    
    I believe the stealth 50 uses a quartet of 6V6s for its power amp.
    
    FWIW, it also takes a quartet of EL84s to make 50 watts (e.g. the
    current Peavey Classic 50), which is a bit less than a boat load.
    
    
    Jim

    RE .8:
    FWIW, it's also "a bit less than 50 watts". I guess just 'cuz it says
    "Classic 50" or "Stealth 50", that doesn't mean it's a *real* 50 watts
    (possible, but highly unlikely).
    I've made this mistake before. It's partly marketing & partly
    "specmanship".
    
    On the other hand, who cares ? If the thing smokes, it smokes. I'd rather 
    play through a quartet of 6V6's *or* EL-84's than any of about 2 dozen 
    "100 watt" solid state beasts.
    
    I guess it's my built in immunity to claims of output power by
    manufacturers of "sub-optimal" equipment that prompted my note of
    caution.
    
    Paul   
    
    
    (That's probably why they call it "Stealth". ;-)
	
    
    

    I thought it had 4 EL84's
    
    Al is my drummer and owner of Capital City Music in Augusta Maine...
    
    dbii
    
    

    Funny thing about tube amps...   I also agree about playing through
    a couple lower wattage tubes than SS anyday. Something metallic about
    SS that leave me cold. I had done a few minor mods on my PV-MX combo
    and then slapped a scope on it to see what kind of wattage it was
    putting out. With roughly 0% distortion I was running ~80 watts of
    "clean" power. The interesting thing is that at around 5% distortion
    we calculated 180 WATTS from 4 6L6's!!! Naw...  that can't be right.
    Do this again...   yep 180 watts! Hey Harvey, take a look at this, am
    I doing this right? Yep...  180 watts!
    Interesting huh?

    re: Chris
    
    Was that a combo or just a head that you got for around six bills?
    
    gh

    I purchased the head but it came with the paperwork for the whole kit
    and kaboodle. I'll bring in the stuff tomorrow and type what the
    technical specs are... is that's legal.
    
    chris
    

    No offense intended or anything, but if the 50wt head is selling for
    $600, then I don't consider it a very good deal.  I only paid about $75
    more then that for my new Marshall head and I think it sounds
    significantly better then the Crate.  
    
    I thought you could get those Stealth heads down in the $450 range new. 
    At that price it'd be a good bargain, but not at $600.
    
    Greg

    	A friend of mine has his wallet aimed at one of the *NEW* Crate 30
    wt Class 'A' dual channel all tube amps. He says they are going for
    somewheres around $800.( I think it has 1-12 ). Anyways, he is dead set
    on this thing! He says the thing sounds great, the electronic are to
    die for and 'NOTHIN GONNA CHANGE HIS MIND!!' I've yelled Fender,
    Marshall,Peavy Classic, there's no way he's even gonna think about it.
    	My question is simple, what do you think???
    I'm basicly looking for some kind of review on this little alien.
    Any comments would be appreciated.
    
    
    	Regards
    
    	Kevin
    Class A tube 30
    

    I tried the Vintage Club 30 all tube Crate yesterday.  I have to admit
    after trying Fender, Marshall, Peavey 5150 and all the 212's and the 
    Sovtek 100W, the 30W Crate matches any sound the other can put out.  It
    does warm tube sound, clean Fender(not quite surf city) and has plenty 
    of punch.  It wasn't $800.  Acton Music wanted $469.
    
    My opinion only.
    
    Mark

    RE:  -.1
    
    RE: (not quite surf city)
    
    Why bother then?       >>-->  Many   ;^)'s
    
    
    	If it sounds good to you and it's within your budget...  then go for
    it. Crate has come a long way and have some nice units out there.
    
    		Good luck and have fun!
    
    
    			Fred (not a Fender snob)

    I've tried the Crate thing at a couple of stores. 
    
    It has a decent clean and dirty sound -- very Marshall-like in both
    sound and appearance.  Personally I like the Peavey tones better (this
    gets back to the earlier discussion on amp voicings).

    I was wondering when the *review*would get here. A buddy I jam with has
    one on order.He did get a chance to test drive one and "Loved"
    it.I'm gonna have to check into this Crate business myself-Class A
    circutry,4 ohms out,sounds pretty good to me.
    
    -kev

    Hey Buck, was it one of the Vintage Club Crates that you tried?  I ask
    because you said Marshall-like in looks, and Clubs don't look that way
    to me.  These are the white-Tolex, retro looking beasties.
    
    I've tried several of the Club models myself.  In fact, while checking
    out the 2x12 combo version at Guitar Center, I had the dubious
    distinction of actually being asked to turn down!  At the Guitar
    Center!!!  I mean, imagine how loud and obnoxious you have to be to
    rise above the din in that place :-)
    
    Every time I check out one of these amps, I walk away smiling
    

    >Hey Buck, was it one of the Vintage Club Crates that you tried?  I ask
    >because you said Marshall-like in looks, and Clubs don't look that way
    >to me.  These are the white-Tolex, retro looking beasties.
    
    Yeah ... white tolex, gold faceplate and marshall-esque knobs and
    layout -- I mean, c'mon man, the combo SCREAMED "M-word clone!"

    Well, i finally got to try that vintage 30 i was mentioning in an
    earlier note.For ($900+ Can.) i think i would have put my money
    elsewhere.Sounded a little thin to me-mind you i didn't spend an hour
    dialing it in but all the same you can usually tell rite off the bat if
    it's gonna be for you.
    
    my 2cents
    
    -kev

    	I'm seriously thinkin of buying one of the white tolex 50watt
    beasts mostly cos of its features .
    	twin channel switching , effects loop etc....
    	Are there any other amps that offer these type of facilities but
    use tubes , the Marshall bluesbreakers similar but you cant switch
    between the channels . Any suggestions
    	J..

    I tried the Vintage Club 50 with a couple of different guitars and
    tried the same guitars into the Vintage Club 30.  JMHO but I thought
    the 30 watt class A amp sounded better than the 50 watt amp which is 
    class B (push-pull).  The salesman at the music store agreed and he
    made less money on the 30 watt amp so had no reason to fabricate.
    
    If you try these amps crank it up a little so you can push the tubes
    up into the saturation zone.  That little 30 watt is a real screamer.
    
    Mark

    Hey Buck,
    
    Check out the base (.0 and .1) of this topic...
    
    Man, have we CHANGED much in (nearly) 8 years??  GK's??
    If I recall, we were BOTH playing GK's back then.  Wow.
    

    On a recent country music awards show, Mark Knopfler showed up onstage
    quietly backing up some other artist.  He was playing an amp that
    looked suspiciously like a Crate VC combo, but I thought to myself
    "nah, must be some fancy big $$$ custom job that just happens to look
    like a Crate".  Well, turns out my eyes were not deceiving me. 
    According to the December issue of Guitar Shop, Knopfler is indeed
    playing a Vintage Club VC5212 these days.  Quote the man: "As soon
    as I plugged into this Crate, it was used to make records.  It's an
    essential part of the kit".  He's currently using this amp in the
    studio for the next Dire Straits album.
    
    I consider this high praise indeed for the Vintage Club line.
    
    /rick
    

    Yeah, I like mine too.  :-)
    
    Hey - no one ever told me if I got a GOOD deal on mine in Den-vah.
    Well?  Whats a good price for the vc30wt 1x12er?
    

well, this note hasn't seen any activity for awhile, so
it's time!


I've recently gone full circle with *all* of my gear...

I had a few solid sate yamaha's that have been going for
ever..  The first order of bizz was to replace the main
amp, for this, I settled on a Marshall, JTM60 2x12 
(Testosterone plus for a smallish tube combo..  A
dd the 2x12 ext. cab, and this thing is downright vicous!)

So enough of Marshall, that goes in 1655...

O.k. so now, I need a practice amp, since I sold my
yamahas off,,  so I start the search.  I only wana go
around $200 to $250 max..  This weekend I come accross
a 30w all tube Crate.  (Used, but very clean, not abused
but light used)  Dave says "$250, go for it, plug it"
I'm thinking price-wise, sounds about right,,  

turn it on, warm it up, plug in..  Yes! PERFECT!

pay-da-man!

Makes a damn good practice amp, and for 30 watts, it's
LOUD!

The 50watts-1x12 new are like $350 at a music store in 
Searstown.. nice combos...

/r

    A friend of mine just paid ~$900 Can. for a 30w Crate Toober. It's
    awesome. Tone and balls to boot! Is yours retro looking? Blonde Tolex
    covering? If it's the same as my buddy's , you got a hell of a  deal.
    
    -k

    I second the motion.  Good deal that is.  I tried the Crates and thought
    the class A, 30W sounded great.  I wasn't impressed with the Class A-B
    50W Crates.
    
    Mark

   <Is yours retro looking? Blonde Tolex
   <covering? If it's the same as my buddy's , 
   <you got a hell of a  deal.

Yea it is..  Knobs top mounted, on a gold panel,
and on the top there's a two air vents with gold
colored aluminum grate coverings.  

The top panel where the knobs are, has a logo on
it that says something like "All Tube, Vintage 30 watt"

As I mentioned, Action Music in Leominster has
two more brand new Crate 50 watters, and again, these are
priced at $349...  so, if these are better prices than
what you guys are I'd be curious to know..  

/ray

PS:
I don't know about the rest of yous guys, but I
really like this throw-back retro look the amps are
going to these days..  and of course, you just can't
beat the tone of the all tube amps...  Hopefully
it's easier to maintain them today than in the mid
to late 70s early 80s when I gave up on Valve amps!

    Yeah, that's the one. 4 ohms @ 30w. What an amazing little amp. Like I
    said , the other guitar player in my band has one. He plays a Epi 335
    and a Les. The tone from that amp is unbelievable. I play a strat plus
    thru a Bassman. They sound great together but I've got nuthin' on his
    tone.This guy cuts thru something fierce! 
    So, I will say good score on that amp and congrats! Don't ever sell
    it!!
    
    -k
    

    RE: Class A 30 watter
    
    This is a very impressive amp! The only nit I had with it was
    the long delay time on the reverb. I guess I was hoping for a 
    more Fenderish reverb. Other than that, it's a very nice amp.
    
    JMO,
    	Fred

  <Yeah, that's the one. 4 ohms @ 30w. What an amazing little amp. 

Yes, it's a sweetie fer sure... It doesn't have
the testosterone that my Marshall JTM60 does, but it
seems to handle everything ya need it to..  And
at 40% off list at -/+ $350 new, they aren't priced 
high at all for a tube amp.. 

(I'm using fenders and IMHO these tube amps are just 
the nats ass tone wise...)

and so easy to lug around too....
....  so I probably wont be selling any of these...

PS: I read a mention on the 335 Epi..  Saw a brand spankin 
new one,  sort of a Burgandy Sunburst,,, "Ohhh Baby!"
What a sweet thing!  costs around $600,,, very-very nice...

    I took a visit to my local Steve's Music on wednesday. They can't deal
    Crate because of an agreement with another local company (or
    something). Anyways, I've got a buddy down there and says his Montreal
    store could deal me one if I was interested. I said, of course, "How
    Much"?!! To my suprise he responded with "$579.00". I'm am floored!
    What a great deal. My buudy who just paid $800 and change  for the same
    amp is gonna be very pissed!
    
    -kev

   <store could deal me one if I was interested. I said, of course, "How
   <Much"?!! To my suprise he responded with "$579.00". I'm am floored!
   <What a great deal. My buudy who just paid $800 and change  for the same
   <amp is gonna be very pissed!

not sure how great a deal it is..

I paid 699 for my marshall JTM-60 2x12...

2 questions..

Which Amp is this (Wattage/speaker config )?

Where is Steve's located ???

The reason I ask this is because as I said earlier,
a 50 watt 1 12 and the 50 watt 1 15 is for sale,
on the shelf, at a store in Leominster Ma. for 200 bucks
less..  (Of course this could have a lot to do with
the specific amp you're interested in, because the
prices vary depending on the speaker / wattage config.

just curious..

/ray

    Ray, that 30w Class A crate is a 1x12. My buddy is a big blues player
    (as am I). If you like that HUGE old Gison tone,this amp rulzzzzz!
    Lot's O' volume to boot. You should hear this thing with a slide on the
    other end......
    
    -kev

    I think I paid $369 for my VC30 Crate...  Truely a cool amp!  The thing
    I liked most about it (more so than the fender and pv offerings in this
    range) was that it seems to get a little dirtier on the top, without
    sackin' a cool vintage tone...Just a hair more of a flexy-flier...
    
    jc (Lovin' his)

 < I think I paid $369 for my VC30 Crate...  


that's about right, I see em for $350 where I haunt..

 < it seems to get a little dirtier on the top, without
 < sackin' a cool vintage tone...

yes, this was what put me over the top when I was looking
for a spare amp.   

I also like the way the VC30 amplifies my Ovation 
Legend 12.

I read where someone posted these amps are 4 ohms ?

is that right ???

Curious...

/ray

    Well, the speaker in the back of mine is 8 ohms...
    
>yes, this was what put me over the top when I was looking
>for a spare amp.   

    Yep - me too.  It's clean side can be a little cleaner than the 
    fender/pv offerings, and it's nasty enough to satisfy my heavy metal
    urgings as well... But it doesn't HAVE to be.  I be likin' that
    part...
    
>I also like the way the VC30 amplifies my Ovation 
>Legend 12.
    
    See above - it can be pretty clean when it wants to be!!
    

    Sounds a lot like the Marshall JTM30 I bought for my nephew. I liked
    that amp enough to keep it for myself, but I had to play Santa. 
    Neil Orsi did a minor repair on the Marshall and he commented that 
    the amp uses 2 6L6 power tubes in a pentode configuration which only 
    yields 30 watts. 
    
    Is the Crate VC30 really a true Class A amplifier? A lot of 
    manufacturers claim their amps are running in Class A but in
    reality very few actually are. The only ones I'm aware of are
    Vox AC30's and Matchless.
    
    Mark 
     

    I dunno - the book sez Class A...  I never paid much attention to the
    engineering - only the sound (and how many toobs I'll need to buy when
    I'm done thrashing these... 
    
    :-0

Comparing it to the marshall (JTM-60 2x12) {Since I
have both, I can probably make a qualified comparison}
it is close,  not quite *the* sound over all, and the 
little things like when you sweep the treble, mid and 
bass controls, the Marshall is much more obvious, 

Gain-wise, the Marshall (well yea, it sounds like a 
marshall..) is smoother, milkier, browner, what ever you
wanna call it..

given most tube amps sound great clean, the JTM to
my ears has a nicer tone, (of course paing $700
bucks for the amp could have something to do with
my bias..) 

to me the acid test is how they hold their tone when you 
overdrive em...  

oh, a dumb question..

what be class a ?

    All amplifier designs can be characterized using something called a 
    trans-conductance curve. Using this curve, amps fall into various 
    classes ranging from Class A to Class B to Class AB. This applies 
    to both tube and solid state amps. 
    
    As an example, a Twin reverb is known as a push-pull amp. The power 
    tubes take turns switching on and off and provide 1/2 the amplification 
    for each duty cycle. Twins would be classified as class B amps. This 
    type of amp runs relatively cool and produces low distortion. 
    
    In a class A amp, all power tubes are full on at all times. They
    do not switch on and off like they do in a push-pull amp. You
    can squeeze more power out of a tube by running it in class A,
    but you generally get more distortion. 
    
    Guitar players in general tend to ignore the theory and select
    an amp based on tone. Since 99% of all guitar amps are not class A
    most players have no idea what a class A amp sounds like. If you've 
    ever heard a good old Vox AC30TB cranked, you know that there is 
    more to it than techno-babble. The amp breathes a little heavier 
    and is very quick to respond to differant picking techniques. And
    the distortion is vicious!
    
    Mark
    

    Check the Vox note and Jay Tasjian's note entitled "Tubes, Tubes,
    Tubes" for more discussion of amp classes. 
    
    Mark

hey thanks,  and yes, we pick em based on tone,
not specs for the most part...  but the sound
you mention is quite obvious..


and.. while we're on the topic..

I was using my marshall with the extender cab at rehersal.
Not really needed for rehersal sessions, but the friday
night jams at Rons were a blast...  but anyway I'd rather
have the marshall at the house, so I brought the
crate down...  It was  cool,, definetly held it's own..

very loud for a 30 watt 1x12 combo..

    Does the 30w 1x12 Crate you guyz are talkin about have two channels?
    Or just one?
    
    I've been messing around with what I *thought* was a VC30 combo at Mr
    C's; 1x12, real small box, single channel that gets dirty pretty quick.
    But then yesterday I ran into another 1x12 combo in a bigger box (about
    the size of a Blues Deluxe).  It had two channels, one clean with just
    volume/bass/treble and the other with more gain, mid-boost, etc.  There
    were also separate reverb controls on this amp.  I'm pretty sure this
    was labeled a 30 watter, but I could be wrong.  Any clues?
    
    /rick
    

    THat's the one we're talking about Rick. Awesome little amp. What did
    you think?
    
    -kev

    The VC30 has two channels and two verb controls...

    Thanks.  Yeah, I can see why you guyz are raving about this puppy; it
    definitely seemed like a powerful little package.  The smaller Crate
    1x12 I saw is nice, but didn't seem like it would quite cut with a
    band.
    
    ps at the R.I. Guitar Show this weekend I coulda nabbed a mint VC
    2x12 combo for $400.  Would've got it if I could have found someone
    to lift it for me :-)
    
    /rick

    Rick,
    
    Howzabout a review of the RI show?
    
    Sorry I missed it. 
    
    Mark
    

    coming...
    

the 2x12 combo would be ONE smokin amp..

for 400 bucks, you should a dragged it home...

    I know, I know... but the thing was even heavier than a Twin!
    

The 1x2 30wat is pretty light, wonder why the 2x12
would be that much heavier..

oh well,,,,,,  

    
    	1x2 = 2
    	2x12 = 24
    
    	So it's 12x heavier.
    
    	Glad to help.  8^)
    

dooooohhhh,,,

sort-a realted story...

buddy was buying a laptop,,,  his wife says
"Gee, sort-a heavy for the lap,,"  so not wanting
to miss any oppourtunity I says,, 

"well that's probably because the disk is full,
delete a bunch of files, and that'll lighten it up.."

The look I got was a hoot....  she was that close to
believing me,,, I think the snickers from the
back of the room tipped her off...

    I thought the 1x12 was quite heavy for what it was. I actually made a
    point of it to the friend of mine who owns one. Anyone know what that
    thing weighs?
    
    just curious,
    
    -kev

I would guess at 40/45 lbs...

I had a yamaha 50 watt 1 12 that was close to 60
lbs..  I think the crate is feather light...

    I just weighed mine - 53lbs (according to the handy dandy digital 
    scale).
    
    :-)

    
    	Wow, we make scales too??
    

    Dudes, at Guitar Center last weekend they 
    had VC2110Rs for 189.00 on sale.  They said they
    were class A all tube.  I didn't have a 
    chance to check 'em out, and I'm not really
    in the market, but that seemed like an interesting
    price. 
    
    Dave
    

I've just come to the conclusiont hat after 3+ years
it's time to probably think about changin the tubes
in my little crate vintage club.

According to the documentation.. 
The Crate VC30s take 4 EL84 and 4 12AX7s...

The preamp tubes are cool, can find them anywhere,
but in the mail order cat. I'm lookin at, EL34s are 
all I can find.  Any one point me to a place where 
EL84s are available ??  (I'm looking at a summer 96
Musicians Friend..  I'll check the new cat. when I
get home tonight,, )

Also, what's the general opinion on replacing tubes
in an amp like this. I've heard many people say
that it's a load of B.S. that generates revenue for
amp repair guys, to bring it in to replace tubes.  
basically the word I'm getting is, "Buy a matched set, 
and plug em in"  But what about the biasing ?
and I think the term is 'balancing' or is that what
the 'matched set' hooey is all about ?

    
    Try Antique Electronic Supply in Arizona.  Tel: 602.820.5411
    
    I don't know if they have EL84's, but their prices are good.
    
    Kevin
    

Hey thanks, I'll give  them a call,, see what
they got..

by the way, did find an order # for some Fender EL84 tubes..
used their web search tool, $6.99 per..  I'd have assumed
I'd see them priced per-set ???

also, another question

I found the following available for 12AX7 preamp
tubes, not sure what the differences imply,
or which ones specifically I'll need..

any ideas ??


 AUDIO GLASSIC 12AX7A ECC83 PREAMP 7025 TUBE 
 AUDIO GLASSIC 12AX7A/R PREMIUM PREAMP TUBE 
 
Any clues to what's different between these,


 GROOVE TUBE 12AX7 PREAMP TUBE 
 GROOVE TUBE 12AX7R PREAMP TUBE 

Any clues to what's different between these,

 NEW SENSOR SOVTEK 12AX7WA 7025 PREAMP TUBE 
 NEW SENSOR SOVTEK 12AX7WB 7025 PREAMP TUBE 

Any clues to what's different between these,

Just curious,, I'm not dead in the water, but I'll
have to be replacing these tubes over the course of
the next month or so... (can sort of hear it coming..)

    If my memory serves right, then the "R" version (the more expensive
    one, of course) of the 12AX7 will be a lower noise, lower microphonics
    version of the tube. You might want to use one of these in the first
    stage of the preamp, since this is usually the highest gain part of the
    amp. 
    
    All the versions are electrically interchangeable, and these days 7025
    and 12AX7 tubes are also interchangeable. 
    
    I don't remember the difference between the "WA" and "WB" versions, but
    I suspect it's the same as the "R" designation. Just compare the
    cost...
    
    On your EL84's: If you can get them, matched sets are preferable
    because they equalize power dissipation across all 4 tubes. You don't
    end up with one tube doing all the work.
    
    I don't know if your Crate is a class A or class AB design. 

    PS to .77:
    
    BTW, preamp tubes can last a long time. They normally aren't pushed
    hard. Unless you suspect bad preamp tubes you might consider leaving
    them as is. A new set of preamp tubes could make things worse.
    
    The tubes that you definitely want to replace are the output tubes
    (EL84) and the driver tube. The driver is often a 12AT7 but may be a
    12AX7. It will be the small signal tube physically closest to the
    EL84's.
    
    Good luck!

interestingly enough, the amp hasn't had a problem since
that one day,, I don't know what's up, but been fine...
I'll keep my ears peeled, but I think if I just let 
it warm up for a few moments, it seems fine.

Maybe still a sign the tubes are sagging... not a 
big deal, it's my backup amp anyway..

    I spoke to someone at Groove Tubes before I bought mine and he recommended
    the 12ax7's over the 12ax7r's. He said the r's are not as good quality and
    sound. I'm sure he told me where they were made but I can't remember....
    
    tn