Conference napalm::guitar

    Don't make me laugh... 
    
    The Fender Strat is the one ... there is no question about this
    being the best all-round axe in the universe.
    
    Dennis Savage

    Take a look at all the guitars that all the really great? players
    have and you'll see an odd collection of assorted and sundry axes.
    There'll be name brands and non-name brands. No matter how many
    guitars they have or what kind of guitars they have, everyone
    has a les paul.
    
    everyone who is anyone has a les paul.
    or two.
    and a marshall.
    
    what else is there?
    

    The answer to this one is simple.
    
    Its a Strat or a Tele or a Les Paul or a Flying V - dependant upon
    the style and 'sound' of what you want to play.
    
    Failing that, its a Strat through a Pro Reverb or a Boogie.
    What other axe can give you:-
    
    o A 'clean' Hank Marvin sound
    o A 'slightly-dirty' Clapton sound
    o A 'whatever' Knopfler sound
    o etc 
    

    I've got to say that the best guitarists (in my humble opinion)
    ALL play strats or teles. The Les Paul is well represented but the
    best use them only on rare occasions to get the one sound that the
    strat can't give them.....
    
    Notable exception :Carlos Santanna

    An ALL around guitar for both jazz and R&R...hmmm.
    My vote would go to the Gibson ES-335.  Chuck Berry, among others,
    used it for R&R, and it's widely used in jazz because of the real
    mellow tone it can achieve.  However, the large body size might
    keep some rock and rollers away from the instrument.  Also, it's
    not that versatile that you can get that distinctive Fender Twang.
    But as I said for general all around use, it's a nice instrument.
    Bottom line, buy at least two guitars.

    
    
        re: PSSS in topic note:
    
    I have a dog named RADIO who can sniff these things out. :^)
    
    =ken

    re.4
    	Of course, that is an opinion and, of course, mine is just an
    opinion, too. But......check album covers! Look at all the marshalls
    and les pauls. There's an article on steve howe and ??? ???/ some
    other well known? guitarist in a music mag and BOTH of them are
    holding.....guess........nope, not tele's or strat's....guess again...
    ........LES PAUL'S.
    
    	I wonder, which has sold the most in the last 10 years....?
    	any body have any figures?
    
    	les paul or strat?
    
    	I used to own a les paul (among the various things I've owned
    in the past. Isn't it obvious?
    
    
    	I hope to get anotehr soon.
    
    
    	rik
    

    A Les Paul is a nice guitar but it's limited to getting that sort
    of fat creamy Gibson sound and that's about it. I agree that they
    are esentially used when that's the exact sound you want. If you
    really want the best overall it's a strat no question. As for a
    335 - might be ok for jazz or country or blues or Chuck Berry songs
    but serious rock? -- forget it, pal. They're terrible.
                
    I too have owed Les Pauls. About 4 of them - all very nice examples.
    I only needed one strat. Playing a strat is like coming home. It's
    perfect.
    
    Dennis

    I haven't seen anyone mention the Gibson SG yet.  Of course, I 
    am not an offical axe-o-phile, but I do think the SG sounds great 
    in just about any application.
                                 
    
    					Phil
    

    re: .7
    
>								As for a
>    335 - might be ok for jazz or country or blues or Chuck Berry songs
>    but serious rock? -- forget it, pal. They're terrible.
                

    Now hold on pal, the topic note asked for a versatile instrument for
    playing jazz and also getting nice rock and roll sounds.  I've got a 
    Strat on my wish list but for no explainable reason I've never been 
    fond of the Les Paul.  I would never use a Strat for playing jazz,
    whereas a Les Paul may be a more likely choice.  And even so, Les Paul's 
    are not used as frequently in jazz as say something like a 335 or even 
    a wider body guitar.  The one guitar I've seen used for both jazz and 
    rock and roll (including blues), and as you said country applications 
    is the 335.  By far, the most versatile instrument.  
    
    Also, are you saying that Chuck Berry is not serious rock?  What makes 
    it less serious than anything else?  Most serious rock and rollers have 
    played and continue to play Chuck Berry.  BTW, I've seen Clapton, Stills,
    and Steve Howe play an L-5.  Are these guys not considered serious rock?  
    WHILE MY GUITAR GENTLY WEEPS was done on an L-5.  As I said, get two 
    guitars.  But if one is all that one can afford, the 335 can be more 
    versatile than the Strat.

    Strat for serious jazz? -- forget it, pal.  They're terrible.
    
    =ken

    
    	Re: 7 -
    
    	Tell that to Ted Nugent...
    
    	JJJ
    

    I guess what it really all comes down to is.....
    
    	every bodies fingers are different lengths and different shapes
    and thicknesses.
    	everybody has different idea of what feels, sounds good.
    	the guy who swears by a strat may hate a paul and the guy
    who swears by a paul may hate a strat. Each of them may be super
    pro's making big albums and big bucks and great sounds using
    different guitars and different amps and different effects and
    the "right" sound person. Some people own 12 guitars, including
    a strat and a paul, they use different guitars for different
    tunes.
    
    	personally, I'd like a paul cuz of the paul sound and I really
    liked the action. I could do lots of classical rok type stuff with
    the paul real easy. I like the strat sound but only mildly. I've
    played them but never owned one. Never had the desire.
    	I currently own a washburn f5v5 with a whammy and, though it
    took some getting used to, I'm beginning to develop a feel for it
    and I'm beginning to like it. Still, I'm thinking of getting a
    paul again for diversity. The Paul's aren't double cut away so
    if you have tiny hands (like I do) it's a little hard to reach
    the high end. I don't have that problem on my washburn. the Strat
    doesn't have that problem either.
    	Actually, I want  the following
    
    	one guitar, 6 string electric, tuned to d
    	one guitar, 12 string electric, tuned to d
    	one guitar,  6 tsring acoustic, tuned to d
    	one guitar, 12 string acoustic, tuned to d
    	one guitar, 6 string classical, tuned to d
    	one guitar, 6 string classical, tuned to g
    	one guitar, 6 string acoustic, tuned to g
    	one guitar, 12 string acoustic, tuned to g
    	one.........etc....
    
    	i need about 24 guitars.
    
    	Should I get 24 strats? Or 24 Pauls?
    	
    
    	hey, Dave Bottom....How's your recording coming?
    	You getting that Midi thing figured out?
    	If you do....you can explain it to me....I'm real confused!
    
    	rik
         
    

    The best use strats:
    
    Clapton, Malmsteen, Blackmore, Hendrix, Dylan (not really a great
    guitarist but a strat user), Eric Johnson, Gilmore, Sting, The Edge,
    Stevie Rae & Jimmie Rae Vaughn, Knoffler, Alex Liefson......
    
    or teles:
    Segar, Alvin Lee, Kieth Richards, Jeff Beck (not exclusively but
    more than any other guitar), Albert Collins......
    
    or Les Pauls:
    
    Jimmi Page, Neil Schon, Steve Howe (not exclusively), Richrath,
    Jeff Beck (hmm), Billy Gibbons (although almost all of his rhythm
    traks are a Strat that Hendrix gave him), Carlos Santanna (not
    exclusively).....
    
    and then there's everybody else......
    
    The answer is to get the best variety of sounds buy at least to
    guitars, one with single coil sounds and one with humbuckers. The
    start and the Les Paul (to a lesser degree) have been the workhorses
    of rock and roll, but both have great competition from the newcomers,
    charvel, Jackson, dean, washburn, hammer....evnen (ug!) bc rich.
    
    orthadox metal is a strat through a marshall stack
    
    any others?
    
    dave

    FIRST OFF; I LOVE THIS NEW FILE. THANKS DAVE B FOR TELLING ME ABOUT
    IT.. I HAVE OWNED A 335 FOR OVER 13 YEARS AND WOULDN'T DREAM OF
    PARTING WITH IT..IT'S BEEN A VERSATILE GUITAR BUT AT TIMES I'VE
    NEEDED A SOUND NOT QUITE AS CLEAN ...I'VE ALSO OWNED A STRAT AND
????WHY??? I SOLD IT I'LL NEVER KNOW.. GIVE ME ANOTHER STRAT

    OK - I'll Wimp out and say I do like 335's. But they aren't anywhere
    near as versatile as a Strat.
    
    Dennis

Les Pauls get my vote. I used to own a strat and currently use a Les Paul.
I think the Les Paul is both more versatile, and for me much more
comfortable than a strat. (My pick always used to hit the middle pick up on the 
strat). As to the previous lists of guitar players, most players on that
list have recorded with both types of guitars. For example:

Jeff Beck - BLow by Blow is mostly Les Paul, Wired is mostly Strat.

Steve Howe - Steve Howe has rarely used the same guitar on more than one song,
	     let alone exclusively. With Yes here's a sample:
			ES-175TD - Roundabout, Yours is No Disgrace, Tales from
				   Topographic Oceans
			ES-335	 - Close To the Edge, Siberian Khatru
			Strat - Parallels
			Tele - Relayer album
	     With Asia, He used a custom made ES-355
	     With GTR, he's back to switching on every song.

Eric Clapton - All of Cream, Blind Faith were done with various gibsons,
		Since Layla he's exclusively used Strats.

Carlos Santana - Currently uses Yamaha, used to use Les Pauls.

    Hey db, no mention of your Carvin??
    
    Seriously, I've heard Dave out-Strat my Strat, and get almost *any*
    sound (axe-flavor) outa that amazing instrument.
    
    Sure I'm a died-in-the-wool Strat guy, but anyone who hasn't heard/seen
    a Carvin might be suprised...it might just be "best overall".
    
    A frustrated Knopfler emulator.

    hmm carvins.....when I visited their factory in the mid 70's the
    guitar they were  making were junk......that they have improved
    is not a big surprise.
    
    Re; Carlos S. He has two Yamaha's that are identical, but also plays
    a lp at every concert I've been to.....

    dave

    re: .16
    
    I've kind of avoided this note because the idea of a "best guitar" is
    somewhat foreign to me.  To be honest, I am also turned off when
    I hear (as I so often do) someone go on about their particular instrument
    and how they've played all the rest but none of them are nearly
    as good, etc. etc.
    
    However, I'm quite happy to talk about the Carvin under the pretext
    that I'm not making any claims as to whether it's the "best".

    My model is a DC 200 Koa.  It has a Kahler unit and gold plated
    hardware.
    
    A friend of mine got a similar Carvin about the time I was looking
    for something to replace my rapidly decaying Gibson SG.  One thing
    which impressed me right away is that the guitar was setup properly
    on arrival.  It's a rare occasion when I find a guitar in a store
    that is setup properly.  I was told that this has been his consistent
    experience with Carvins.  The action was very low indicating to
    me a excellent neck and fret job (later discovered that Carvin has
    a unique fretting technique that they've patented).  So the first
    thing that impressed me was here was a stock guitar that played
    well right out of the box.
    
    I played my friends guitar for awhile and he showed me the controls
    which I though to be quite intelligently laid out.  It has two slightly
    different Carvin pickups, each of which has two sets of 11 poles:
    6 for the strings, 5 for the gaps between strings to even out the
    sound when bending (noticeably effective but not strikingly so).
    There's a coil tap for each pickup, and thus you can get some very
    interesting blends of single coil and double coil sounds.  There
    is a in-phase/out-phase switch which controls whether the two pickups
    are in or out of phase with each other which gives you even
    more variety in two-pickup mode on top of the coil-tapping.  What's
    more is that the way the switch works (and the guitar is wired)
    the switch has the effect of selecting which coil of the bridge
    pickup is being used in single coil mode.  Thus when the pickup
    selector is set to the bridge pickup, the phase switch controls
    which of the two coils is being used.   The difference is only
    subtle but noticeable (pickup placement is more critical as you
    get closer to the bridge).
    
    Now there's a couple of things I think they blew.  The guitar is
    a typical stereo guitar in that when both outputs are plugged in,
    one pickup goes to one channel, and the other pickup goes to the
    remaining channel.  The only advantage I can see to this is that
    it allows to you control the balance between the two channels when
    both channels are on.  But of course using the guitar in stereo
    mode forces you to give up much of the variety described in the
    previous paragraph, thus I don't think this is the appropriate way
    to do it for this guitar.  I myself, would have preferred to see
    the mono output split into two channels and then have a balance
    control.  This would allow you to use two seperate rigs (I think
    the more common thing these days).   I know I would have an application
    of the stereo feature if it was set up this way.
    
    My guitar is made of Koa wood, allegedly some kind of rare wood
    that is both hard but porous which is supposed to give you better
    resonation.  Eh....  However, the guitar is quite light and does
    have decent (not great) sustain.  Being that I always practice standing
    up and also am a chronic back sufferer, I'm quite willing to trade
    off a little sustain for comfort.  BTW. it has a very nice natural finish
    (my personal preference).
    
    Anyway, I find that it plays very well, and I can get a wide variety
    of sounds with it.  I suspect that the same would be true of any
    other Carvin DC 200.  That's one of the reasons I bought Carvin:
    you know you're getting a good guitar that arrives setup properly.
    You can buy a Carvin with a certain amount of confidence and that
    was important to me.  (A guitar mail order place has to have that
    property to be at all successful.)
    
    What don't I like about it?:
    
    First, it is hard to do pinky volume swells (which I like to do)
    with the rhythm pickup without knocking the pickup selector into
    two pickup mode due to the placement of those things.  It's hard
    to use the bridge pickup to do the same  because it's so far back
    that you have to pick the strings very close to the bridge (which
    is somewhat harder to do) and the arm of the Kahler bar gets in
    your way.   Now, with practice, I've learned to get around these
    problems (I don't knock the pickup selector switch anymore, and
    I either take the bar off, or place it between my fingers.)
    
    I talked to the Carvin guy who designed the guitars about this sorta
    insignificant but annoying feature.  He was real nice, and he actually
    called me back later to thank me for the suggestion and tell me
    that he implemented my fix on the new guitar he is designing.  Wow!
    I thought it had gone in one ear and out the other....
    
    Second, both my guitar and my friends needed to be sent back after
    about 2 years because the neck straightened out and couldn't be
    reset because the nut on the truss rod was already at it's loosest
    setting.   Carvin is willing to fix these problems for free, but
    of course you have to send them the guitar and be without it for
    awhile.   The point is, this would suggest it's a common Carvin
    problem.

    Anyway, that's it.  I'm not going to load on any bullshit about
    how this guitar is so special or so great, or whatever.  I'll just
    say that I'm extremely happy with it.
    
    	db

    P.S. BTW, I highly recommend getting locking trems even if you're
         not into whammy bar stuff.   I think it just helps keep the
         guitar in tune.  I'm somewhat fussy about tuning, but I'm also
         lazy about it, and thus it's nice to have a guitar that holds
         it's tune well.   Now if only I could hold a tune :-)

	If sound versatility is what you're looking for, your best bet is
    not to choose a favorite guitar, but rather to figure out what pickups
    will give you the widest range of sounds. Then take the guitar that
    feels most comfortable in your hands and customize it with your
    favorite pickups and wirings (phase controls, etc.).  This might
    not be the most practical or cheapest route (not even possible for
    some combinations), but you'll get a wide range of sound possiblities.
    
    	Of those guitarists mentioned previously who are known to use
    a certain axe, how many have customized theirs?  Most are known more
    for their distinct sound than for their versatility.

    	Another question, how important is an amp for sound versatility?
    
			Dave, whose Tele custom (humbucking up front)
    			      is not too versatile

    amps can give you (depending on the amp) a great deal of variety
    on your sound.....best bet are the Semour Duncans which are designed
    with removeable preamps that allow you set up the amp with a selection
    of five different preamps for five different sounds......chaning
    a preamp is about a 2 minute job...and there are around ten different
    ones available, sounds range from crystal clean to super dirty with
    variations of all sorts....
    
    I agree about the pickups, get what suits you best and customise
    it to meet (or exceed) your needs......
    
    dave

    I agree with the "versatility" argument.  I use "tapped" humbuckers,
    and with the tap switch in I can fake a reasonable tele sound.
    
    Now if I could just afford a Seymour Duncan ...
    

    I'm not so sure if you want to rush out and buy a Seymour Duncan.
    I've played in bands for 20 years and have studied and modified
    many tube amps and have become very critical of guitar/amp sounds.
    When the Seymour amp first came out, my lead player rushed out to
    buy one to see if he would like it better than his boogie mark 1
    which he bought in 1976. We used it at all types of gigs for about
    90 days then sold it back to the music store because it just didn't
    have enough high end. We took it apart and I was going to add a
    brightness control which would hve been easy but probably would
    have hurt the trade in value. The construction was fantastic and
    the switchable preamps were a great idea but the bottom line was
    that the sound was not that great. We play commercial music from
    Steely Dan to Hall and Oats and we needed a wide spectrum of sounds
    but this amp seemed only good for narrow bandwidth distorted rock.
    I think the hot new amp which we're going to try next is the new
    boogie with 3 switchable sounds and two channels.
    
    I have devised a poor man's way to obtain a boogie sound out a fender 
    amp by reallocating the vibrato 12AX7 and using one of its sections
    to provide an additional stage of gain in the preamp stage. Then
    one of the vibrato pots is wired as a gain control and the other
    is used as a master volume control just before the output section.
    
    I did this conversion to a twin, a dual shoman, and a pro-reverb
    -the pro sounded the best but I think that was due to the old "Special
    Design" Jensens which for some reason sounded great.
                                                 
    If anybody wants copies of Fender or Boogie schematics and these
    modifications I would happy to send them off.

    Those of you who reply to note 12.22; please be sure to include
    your mail code, DTN, or home address!

    Guitars are like horsepower in cars:  too much is never enough!
    I have finally broken my one guitar a month habit, and have whittled
    my collection down to a few.  Got to have a Strat AND a Les Paul
    AND at least one Martin acoustic.
    
    Paul

    - 1.
    
    >  Got to have a Strat AND a Les Paul AND at least one Martin acoustic.
    
    I agree on the martin, but I'll take an ESP over a Fender strat
    and a Jackson over a Les Paul anyday, they have a more `contemporary'
    sound to them I think.
    
    

    I HAVE A KRAMER STRAT STYLE W/2 SINGLE COIL PICKUPS 1 HUMBUCKER
    W/SPLIT COIL OPTION,FLOYD ROSE LOCK+DIMARZIO ONBOARD PREAMP
      THIS COMBO BLOWS AWAY ALL OTHERS FENDER IS HISTORY,KRAMER RULES

    
    	Sigh.
    

    
      It's time to kick up some dust in this topic. I'll fess up
    right off and put a mark in the Les Paul column. My Les Paul
    Custom ( candy apple red , gold h/w , EMG's ) is the weekend 
    workhorse. For five years it's been suitable for 80% of my 
    needs. I have a Roland GP-8 that helps with adjusting the tone
    to fit the bill.
      My other guitar is a B.C. Rich Bich that I bought in the
    early Eighties when it was the most radical guitar for hard
    rock ( that was then , this is now ) The B.C. is still a 
    great guitar in it's own right but doesn't fit in with where
    I'm at now. I still feel the early B.C. Rich guitars ( Mockingbirds,
    Eagles, and Bich's ) were worth their asking price , truly a 
    handmade , quality instrument.
    
      STRAT ... a real Fender Strat is a guitar for the masses, and
    there are good ones if you sort through the bunches. Fender has
    been doing a lot lately to keep from being out-strated. A carved
    guitar like a LP Custom is much harder to clone.

    
        Some of us po'boys have come to realize that Ibanez makes a
    good mid-priced guitar.I'm not claiming that they're the "best"
    but then again looking at the people who are currently using and
    endorsing them. They might just start turning a few heads if this
    keeps up.
     I personally have both a Roadstar and a Proline 1660,and I love
    them both.So do my friends with their Lessies and Straties.
    
                                        Keep on playing,
    .                                                   Eric

re: -.1

I agree - Ibanez makes a great guitar for the money. I have a Roadstar 
II that gets a much better clean sound than my Charvel Model 6 at 
about 25% of the cost. Unfortunately, that's the *only* good sound out 
of the Ibanez, but it has its uses. (especially now that I'm playing 
a lot of funk-style music, which requires a crisp, clean strat sound).

As for all other styles and sounds, the Charvel is the greatest!

-Dan

    re: .30
    
    Dan, If you haven't, you may want to check out the new Ibanez models
    (esp. the RG5xx series).  They are very nice!  I had a Roadstar II a
    few years ago that I thought was junk (had dead spots all over the neck
    when you bent notes and would NOT stay in tune).  But, I played one of
    the new ones recently (I think it was an RG570) while demoing something
    and it blew me away.  It was really flexable in sounds (2 humbuckers, 1
    single in between them) and played like a dream.
    
    Incidentially, I play a Charvel too (Model 4).  I honestly liked this
    Ibanez better then the Charvel (and I love it).
    
    I'm not trying to talk you into anything, just that if you like the
    Charvel, you'll almost certainly like these too.
                                                    
    Greg

    Agreed.  the RG550's that Buck has are nice...They ROCK !
    
    Gotta love those simply rude colors and stuff.  Gotta have flash!

    	
    	In my opinion, the Strat AND the Les Paul are the best.
    
    	(only because I own 1 of each)
    
    	Actually, they are two totally seperate guitars, each having
    	alot of pluses and hardly any minuses. I happen to like the
    	feel, sound and sustain of my LP better. But on my Strat,
    	I have EMG active pick ups and a Wonder bar on it. It sounds
    	REALLY hot and the action is INCREDIBLE!!
                                                     S
    						      T
                                                       E
                                                        V
                                                         E

    
    
    I myself own a les paul, and an ibanez rg 550 which I just bought.
    I've had people tell me that my les paul cuts thru a little better
    than my ibanez live. My les paul is truly a fine guitar and will never
    part with it. My ibanez has a distinct sound too. Really good for the
    whammy bar stuff.
                          still jammin after all these years.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Don't make me laugh.
    
    
    
    
    
    
                " STRAT  RULES "
    
    
     Gonzo

    Careful, Gonzo,
    
    if you heard the guy in .34 play that Les Paul, I guarantee you you
    would NOT laugh.  He has clean, tasty, accurate chops for days, and can
    play a slide to make you think you were at an Allman Bros concert.  Bob
    Durham is one fine axe-slinger, and "does" Les pauls proud.....
    
    STEVE (who likes strats too!)

    Agreed.  Watching Bob play makes me wanna give up...  But I won't.
    :)

    I am just peforming a test
                              
    
    

    I just wanna say that I own a Gibson Les Paul Gold Top and I think that
    Gibson Les Paul's have the best sound. Fender Strats are good too if 
    you like more of a twang. However, I have always liked the Les Paul
    since my early guitar playing days.  BTW, my Gold Top was built in 1992
    and it is a 1960 version. I use it with a Marshall and I think that 
    Gibson and Marshall go very well together. Fender also make good amps.