Conference napalm::guitar

    Do those Eventide Harmonizers gloss over pick sounds?

Are you attacking the strings with the absolute flat edge of the pick?
You should get a smoother sound by holding the pick at an angle to the string.
Have you tried a lot of different picks?  Jim Dunlop black nylon picks are 
slightly softer than most.  You could get pick noise from a pick that's too 
thin or too hard, depending on your technique.

Bob

    Your strings may be too close to the pickups.  When I play I generally
    am resting the palm of my hand on the strings not being played,
    whereas, when my pickups were adjusted close to the strings, I would
    get a clicking sound out of the pole peices.  I just set the pickups
    a little low, and now the clicking is gone.
    
    I don't know if this is your problem, though.
    
    FWIW, 
    
    Mike

If your effect unit is doing a fair amount of compression you may have to live 
with it...

dbii

    slide the pick off the string

    
    I gotta agree with dbii.  I find this problem with my (stomp box)
    compressor an distortion units.  In all cases, it's just the normal
    pick click being amplified to the point of obnoxiousness.  So why don't
    all your albums exhibit such a sound?  Probably better compressors.  I
    find that when running my guitar through the peak limiter of a tape
    deck  that I have no clicking problem.
    
    							Brian

    I think there are two ways to get click. One kind you get when you
    the pick first engages the string and the other happens when the
    pick releases from the string (sometimes maybe it even hits the
    next adjacent string).  
    
    	The first type of noise has a lot to do with the way the pick
    first contacts the string I think.  If the flat portion of the pick
    contacts the string first the THWAP, you get noise.  If the side
    of the pick contacts first, then its a matter of what angle the
    pick make with the string relative to the direction the pick is
    moving.  In genereal, I'd say the you want to place your pick as
    shallow as possible so that the edge of the pick at rounded portion of 
    the tip is what strikes the string first. Then, as you move the pick to
    be closer to making a right angle with the string, the softer the
    attack becomes.  I usually sand my picks down at the edges where
    they first contact the strings so they feather out from the pick
    face to the edge. This way you don't get as much noise from the
    string windings as the pick slides along the string during the pick
    stroke.
    
    	If you use real thin picks, the flex of the pick may be such that
    when you release the string, the pick snaps over causing a click and 
    possibly hitting the adjcent string.  You can get around this by using 
    medium or heavier picks.
    
    Soo, Medium picks, rounded on opposite faces and edges, only minimally
    engaged with the string and held at about a 45 degree angle to the
    string.  If that doesn't help, shoot me. 8^) jt 
                                                   

    Thanks for the suggestions -- I'll try them tonight.
    
    re.2: yes I do pick flat, and probably too hard.
    
    re.6>: yes I found that the clicking is less noticeable after taping
           I'll try less compression tonight.

                                                  John Z 

    Well I tried many different things last night. Picking at different
    angles helped but did not cure the problem. The biggest culprit was the
    Scholz SUSTAINOR -- with compression (and especially distortion) it
    seemed to accentuate the clicks. When I substituted the pre-amp output
    of the Mesa Boogie in its place the clicks were less objectionable.
    
    I have yet to try lowering the pickups.
    
    If I switch off the echo unit then the clicks don't bother me so much
    (I should never have bought an echo unit!). 
    
    I'm a born-again-guitarist (I stopped playing for a number of years
    and recently got back into it with a vengeance). I always thought that
    a good guitar was all I needed -- how wrong I was: I seem to spend all
    my time re-arranging my hardware just to get that right sound. To get a
    good blues sound I have to configure the system oneway; to get good
    distortion a totally different way. Is this why there are so many
    effects out there; and is this why so many guitarists have more than
    one axe?
    
    Sigh, 
    
    JZ      

" Is this why there are so many effects out there; and is this why so many 
guitarists have more than one axe?"

Yes But....
	 It's all related to what your trying to play and how picky you
are with your sound. And the crowd also....
	I find I carry a minimum of 3 guitars to play alot of today's
sounds. Plus you need the capabilities to have enough flexibility in
your amp to cover any of the idioms with the flick of a switch. Now
people may believe that this is a little overboard,but unless you can
establish a particular style or idiom your music fit's, your hardware
has to be flexible. To what degree of flexibility? Well in any given
set I may go from an acoustic number to blues(strat)to jazz(archtop)to
rock(strat/lp)....This may seem to be extreme....
	To a less picky crowd,I could probably pickup one guitar and
play all night if I liked the one sound.
	I believe that for each idiom there is a guitar which
best provides it's representative tone/sound. But you could also
say the same with effects. 
	I have used several SRD Product's in the years past,the preamp
in particular for at least a year,I found that it had limitations that
I tried to live with but eventually I traded it in. In my setup I used
an ab switch to bypass it when not in use. Keep in mind some of these
    limitations were self inflicted :^)
	Effects,I find I use minimally,I use the spring reverb in the
amp and Chorus and flange and delay where I need to. In some cases to
change sound and texture of the music.
	One last thing keep in mind I'm the only guitarist in the group
and for the most part the main instrumentalist,with bass and drums. So
I cover rythmn and leads and then some.... Alot of sound to fill in and
    out......

						Good Luck....

							Rick

re: is  this why we have more than one axe..

or even better more than one amp/preamp

dbii purr purr purr purr

    I agree with a lot of what Rick said in .10. Another thing to keep in
    mind when purchasing equipment is its "flexibility quotient". There are
    some guitars that have one very distinct characteristic sound that they
    do extremely well, and can do very few variations on this. For example,
    Telecasters, Strats, Les Pauls, and so on all tend to be quite
    distinctive. The same applies to amps and effects: Marshalls, Boogies,
    Rolands, Rockmans, etc all tend to have pretty distinctive sounds.
    That's one end of the spectrum. So if I was really into jazz I'd get an
    archtop and a Roland chorus or Fender twin. If I was really into
    country I might get a Telecaster and a Fender. If I was into blues/rock
    I'd get a Les Paul and a Marshall. A setup tailored to a specific
    idiom - that's one way to go.
    
    At the other end of the spectrum is gear which tends not to have a
    particularly distinctive sound, but is capable of producing a wider
    range of sounds. For example, guitars with active electronics that
    provide greater control over the tone, programmable effects units, amps
    with a lot of configuration options, etc.
    
    Personally I own only two guitars: an acoustic (which I rarely perform
    with) and a Gibson ES-345 semi-hollow electric. And I use only one amp,
    a Seymour-Duncan combo with very few effects. But I play blues, rock,
    country, folk, jazz, pop, and so on, and get pretty good sounds. My
    guitar is capable of producing a wide variety of tones, and so is my
    amp. I can't sound exactly like Jimi Hendrix, I can't sound exactly
    like Mark Knopfler, I can't sound exactly like Eric Clapton, or Larry
    Carlton, or Wes Montgomery, or ... But with a relatively small amount
    of gear I can produce a nice sound appropriate to just about any style
    of music I might be called on to play. I'm not saying that's the best
    choice for everyone, but it's the one that keeps me happy.
    
    ps - Of course I'd be much happier if I had about $1M worth of stuff
    and a road crew to haul it around and set it up, and could use a
    different guitar and amp on every song :-)
    
    - Ram

        
        I have a question on picks/picking...
        
        When it comes to high speed picking, We all know that the pick is 
        at its most effective when the very edge of the pick is being 
        used, ie about 1.25 mm. This means there is far less string 
        resistance and the pick can glide over the string, as opposed to 
        riding over them like a steam roller over speed bumps!!
        
        Anyway, my question to you people is... how do you hold you pick, 
        in relation to the tip, when picking fast?? Do you hold it close 
        to the tip, so that there is only a very small amount of pick 
        being used, or do you hold it quite far back, and basically use 
        your judgement to pick just with the very tip ?? I currently hold 
        the pick pretty close to the tip, but the trouble with this I 
        find is you sometimes get subtle harmonic overtones, which when 
        amplified, interfere with the smooth sound needed to keep fast 
        picking clean and fluent. This could be caused by the fact that 
        my right hand thumb nail is quite long, for acoustic playing, and 
        maybe my nail is slightly touching the string after I pick the 
        note.
         
        How do you guys hold picks ?
        
        Cheers,
        -Tony  (going through hell trying to learn to play his new guitar 
        	without leaning his hand on the Floyd and thus making the 
        	notes bend!).

    I play with heavy mandolin picks...the tiny tear-drop shaped guys.
    I hold the pick with just the tip showing, trapped between the side
    of my first finger and my thumb.  The heel of my hand rests on the 
    bridge to provide support.  Also, as mentioned in previous replies, 
    the pick is canted relative to the string, to avoid 'clicking' and the
    tendency to 'catch' on a string.
    
    Regards,
    John Kelly
    

    I hold my pick between my thumb and forefinger, with the forefinger
    bent at both joints. The result, if you looked at my hand from the
    side, is that my thumb is exactly parallel to the plane of the strings,
    and the thumb and fingers present a completely flat surface with just
    the tip of the pick extending down to touch the strings. I hold the
    pick a little bit up from the tip generally, but as my speed increases
    I "tuck" it in slightly by hooking in my forefinger, so that
    effectively I am holding it closer to the tip. I find that this gives
    me more control for fast passages.
    
    I sometimes rest the heel of my hand on the bridge, but more for
    damping purposes than as a stylistic thing. I defintely don't do this
    when I'm playing fast parts. I have one habit that is a little strange,
    probably would be considered bad practice, but has never caused me
    problems - I extend my pinky and touch the tip to the pick guard much
    of the time. I've tried playing without doing this and don't see much
    difference, like I said, it's just a habit I developed. The only time
    it causes me any grief is when I play some guitar on which the
    elevation of the strings above the pickguard is quite different from
    mine, in which case it just feels a little awkward.
    
    I've never noticed the problems you described, regardless of how close
    to the tip I was holding the pick. Maybe you do need a nail trim, or
    try changing the angle of your thumb with respect to the strings.
    
    - Ram

    I had the same problem when I switched from an SG as my standard guitar
    to a Strat.
    
    My right position is like this:  I hold the pick (standard size guitar
    pick, a Gibson heavy) back away from the point, say, 3/8 of an
    inch (almost a cm).  I hold it back there to keep my fingers out of the
    way.  I hold it between thumb and index finger only, with the third
    fingertip resting on the screw that adjust the height of the middle
    pickup (on a strat).  I usually hold it relaxed, almost loosely, to let
    it cross the string natually rather than forcing the motion.  Somtimes
    it's a little canted, but if I want to try to make it sound very
    precise, I hold it perfectly parallel to the string.  I need to be a
    little louder or puchier, I just tighten up the grip a little without
    changing position.
    
    Like the previous note said, pick with just the least amount of the
    pick that will give consistancy.  I find I start missing if I back off
    too much.
    
    It works for me, but I've seen other people use other techniques that
    work just as well.
    
    Will
    

    re: Multiple guitars...
    
    We Started out (the other guitarist and I)  just using one each..
    But then break a string, band takes a break, or better
    yet, wips into a three piece rendition of "Name your favorite 1,4,5 
    tune"  Hey, adapt and overcome right...
    
    Then, we got into acoustics... Nice change!  And, break a string, change 
    the set and do some acoustic material.  Novel concept.  Crowd thinks
    we're clever, However, *WE* just got our butts out of a jam...
    
    Then we started micing up the set list to the point where it was obivous..  
    
    		"This axe just don't cut it for some covers"
    
    (This axe = Balls Delux Ibanez, just too much for the lighter/blues
    stuff)  So, started lugging my strat around. Bonus here was the Strat
    could handle the rough stuff as well as the lighter/nonacoustic stuff,
    so another saftey valve for the busted string blues..
    
    Then, we went Midi via Midi Guitar...
    
    Now this may seem extreem, but now on stage, behind me  sits four
    guitars.  (cuz I usually bring all of them, mostly out of necessity)  
    It's a real drag when you're trying to get into the house quietly with 
    four guitar cases banging away, and/or tuning up..
    
    re: picking.  I too use the Mandolin Picks.  I have used those
    exclusivly since I was about 17.  I don't show much pick to
    the strings.  I pick in a circular motion with the required up-down
    stroke method.   (Gee, it's so automatic, I actually have to stop and
    think,, just what I do in this regard..." but I know that at times,
    I'll nail the strings, at other times, not hard at all...  I don't
    use compresion, sparesly use Chorus at all, use a touch delay probably
    40% to 60% of the time during solos...  I don't recal the naggin
    thwap...
    
    Perhaps the base note author is either 
    
    a: picking too hard...
    
    b: using a roughed up pick....
    
    c: Killing w/ compression , which is a dynamite tool, but it's a pretty 
       dumb animal.
    
       It will cause one some trouble if the compresion/attack and release
       times are too agressive.  
    
    I'd suggest that you keep your current setup, don't change anything, 
    and just try and discover exactly whats causing you the grief.
    
    Start eliminating variables till it's obvious, then work on that.
    
    You'll probably find it's not you, rather to much gain, or distortion,
    or compresion.  Orr, quite possibly, your pick, or the gage of your
    strings.  Then go after the pickup distance in relation to the string,
    but don't screw with this too much.  Too drastic of a change, and it
    will do some changing to the 'voice' of your guitar, or at least the
    'voice' your used to.  not that this is bad, however in the case
    of a strat for instance, there's something to be said for the distance
    and the magnetic field created between the sting nad the six poles 
    in each of the three pickups.
    
    By the way, I've got that LArry Carlton "On Solid Ground" that you 
    mentioned..
    
    		   
    Real nice peice of work by Larry

    
    	I know that it's fatal to use new strings in the studio.  I only
    did it once & I had string squeak & pick noise all over the place.  I went
    back & did the session again a couple of days later when the strings
    had bedded in & all was quiet again.
    
    	It was only when recorded the pick noise came in, couldn't hear it 
    just through the amp (Marshall, no effects) so I put it down to tape
    compression.  It seems according to the other guy's here that
    compressors are prone to this so maybe my guess was right.
    
    	Cheers
    		Pete.

    re: new strings

    I find there there is some sort of oily residue on new strings,
    probably left from the manufacturing process.  I absolutely hate the
    feel of this stuff, so whenever I can, I wipe new strings down with
    rubbing alcohol to get rid of it before I play them.  Improves the feel
    substantially.

    Greg

    
    	I thought that too but I think that it's because the finish on new
    strings is so smooth that it just gives the impression the there is
    something oily on them.  A rub down with anything like alcohol will
    cause the string to start oxidising & rough the surface up a bit, even
    though it's only microscopic in effect, its enough to improve the grip.
    
    Well...thats my theory...:-)
    
    Cheers
    		Pete.