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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

1484.0. "Tube Interchangeability" by SQUID::GOODWIN () Mon Sep 18 1989 17:29

	I have an amp which was originally equipped with European ECC83
	preamp tubes.  When looking for spares/replacements, a dealer
	was going to sell me 12AX7's instead.  He informed me that
	12AX7's, 12AX7A's, 7025's and ECC83's are all interchangeable
	and that I didn't necessarily need to find ECC83's (which he
	didn't have.)

	Is this correct?  I want to make sure that any substition I make
	will not damage the circuitry in any way.

	If all these tubes are interchangeable, are there any differences
	between them in terms of performance, durability or sound?

	Thanks,
	Steve
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1484.1exVLNVAX::ALECLAIREMon Sep 18 1989 18:005
    I was told by a repair guy that the 7025's have greater frequency
    response but more niose than 12ax7's. 
    This same guy also overlooked a resistor that had never been soldered
    on one end at the factory and which subsequently fried my x-former.
    Nonetheless, has anyone else more info on tube replacements?
1484.2GE says: 12AX7 = 7025SALEM::ABATELLINouveau Blues RockerMon Sep 18 1989 18:518
    I used to work alot on Fender amps and found that I could use 
    12AX7's instead of 7025's and also the other way around. I found
    no large difference in noise with either when compared side by
    side. At one point "GE" tubes were marked:  12AX7/7025
    on each box. What does that tell ya? You should NOT replace a 7025
    with a "12AT7", or a "12AT7" with a 7025/12AX7, but then you knew that.
                                            
    Fred (who wants an old black face Deluxe Reverb)
1484.312AT7 = ECC81SQUID::GOODWINMon Sep 18 1989 19:354
	I think 12AT7's are equivalent to ECC81's.

	Where do the ECC83's and 12AX7A's fit into this puzzle?
1484.4yep...VIDEO::BUSENBARKMon Sep 18 1989 20:373
    	I believe ECC refer's to european labeling's and there
    american equiv's are as you mentioned
    
1484.5TubesCSC32::G_HOUSEDoes a bear wear a funny hat?Tue Sep 19 1989 17:1410
    12AX7s are compatible replacements for ECC83s or 7025s.  I was told by
    two different techs that I trust that there should be no difference in
    the sound or performance.
    
    Now, I don't know about the 12AX7As though.  I thought that this was
    the "high performance" version of the 12AX7, so I'd expect it to change
    your sound some.  I *think* that it's electrically compatible though
    (but I'd check before I put them in my amp).
    
    Greg
1484.6DNEAST::BOTTOM_DAVIDRock and Roll doctorTue Sep 19 1989 17:528
On the same topic, my Rivera will accept an number of power tubes, currently 
it has EL34's which as I understand it are a warm sounding tube. Comparably 
are 6550's a much sharper sounding tube?

fo anyone who was curious: Substitution requires re-biasing, a chart of values 
and proceedure are part of the owner's manual....

dbii
1484.7SQUID::GOODWINTue Sep 19 1989 18:1310
    RE: .6

    From what I've read 6550's are louder, harder and cleaner sounding.
    
    6CA7's should interchange with the EL34's without the need to rebias.
    I'm not sure about the 6550's though.   Some amps that allow power
    tubes to be interchanged have bias switches built in, which is a
    very nice convenience (as long as you remember to throw the switch
    when you replace your 6L6GC's with EL34's, otherwise, it's an
    expensive pain in the rear end!)
1484.8ASAHI::COOPERInsert Flipper-type P-name here...Wed Sep 20 1989 15:013
    6CA7's are equivelent to the EL34's according to GT's Tube Amp Book.
    
    jc