Conference napalm::guitar

     Re:                <<< Note 1412.0 by ESKIMO::AUSTIN >>>
    
        I don't mean this to sound flip, but what has your age got to do
     with learning to play guitar??  If playing is something you want to
     do very badly, then just DO IT!!  

        I'll tell you that I'm over 28, just learning and having the
     time of my life.  Yep, my fingers are a bit cranky about moving
     where I want them to but that's okay.  Since playing well is
     something that I want to do, I find I practice all the time.  So
     the fingers will come along.

        Go with your desire and don't worry about the other stuff.

        Vicki

    
    I think playing at an older age is in some ways easier to learn.  I'm
    currently coaching Vicki on the guit, and I can see she already can
    grasp at concepts that takes young kinds months to get a hold on.  So,
    in essence, I think you can LEARN the stuff (fingerings and theory)
    quicker, but the hard part is being an adult requires more of your
    time, and you may find shedding time hard to come by, which is
    essential when first starting off (practice a LOT!). 

    Good luck, and go for it...
    Buck        

	I was on the wrong side of 40 when I started, so anything is 
	possible!!

	I agree with the point in .2, the problem is finding the time to 
	practise. You don't say what sort of music you are interested in, 
	but if you plan to learn from a book, spend a lot of time looking 
	at different ones. I found that the "Teach yourself Rock Guitar" 
	type of book varied enormously. Some are good, some are terrible!

	Anyway, good luck!

	Chris

    Good luck on your new interest!  I'm sure you will find it very
    rewarding and worth the effort.
    
    Here is some cheering news:  Children are not quicker and better
    learners than adults. An adult starts at a disadvantage in any
    physical pursuit (tennis, golf, guitar, etc.) if he has learned
    something incorrectly and has to unlearn it as part of the process
    of mastering a pursuit.  
    
    The director of a martial arts school reports, "In learning the 
    exquisitely subtle and complex moves of aikido, an art that is new 
    for almost everyone, the adult students in our school are far superior to 
    the children.  There's simmply no comparison.  Some of our fastest 
    learners, in fact, are in their forties, fifties, and even sixties."
    
    Children and young people are often better learners, not because their
    youth, but because they are less affected with pride and excessive
    goal orientation.  Adults are constantly looking ahead and are 
    impatient for rapid, significant results.  Slow, steady practice is
    the way to achieve these results.
    
    Physical activity/skills are dependent on a brain-body mechanism
    that is similar to an autopilot.  Each of us has a Habitual Behavior
    System that operates at a lvel deeper than thought.  This Habitual
    Systems involves the relfex circuit in the spinal cord as well as in
    various parts of the brain to which it is connected.  It makes it
    possible for us to do things...sign our names, tie a shoelace, play
    a C chord...without worrying just *how* we do them.  When you start to
    learn a new skill, however, you do have to think about it and you have
    to make an effort to replace old patterns of sensing and movement with
    new.
    
    This brings into play a cognitive system that becomes part of the
    Habitual system just long enough to reprogram it.  When the job is
    done, the cognitive reprogramming system withdraws.  Then you don't
    have to stop and think about how to do something before you do it.
    Again, think about signing your name.  For kicks, put your pen in
    your opposite hand and try writing your name.
    
    You can see that assuming a new physical skill (musical) is primarily
    involved with patterning certain responses into your brain.  Hence, the
    large amount of practice time.  The exciting part of this learning
    curve is that it takes place *constantly* even though you might not
    realize it.  For reasons that I can't explain, your brain works on
    things even when you are not actively doing them.  After a practice
    session, put your instrument down and come back to it later.  Usually
    you'll find that you've improved, even while you have been away.
    
    The paradox is this:  The person who renounces immediate goals for the
    sake of diligent practice generally ends up reaching higher goals than
    one who shoots for quick results.
    
    Ayhow, if you take up the guitar, don't think of it as practice.
    Think of it as playing!  Fall in love with the process of adding
    bits and pieces to your ability and don't frustrate yourself by 
    daydreaming of duets with Leo Kottke or Eddie Van Halen or whomever.
    Enjoy the road and the destination will come.
    
    Brian

    I started when I was 25 and my only regret is not starting when
    I was a teenager.
    
    Mike_who's_having_fun

                           
    The only factor regarding "age" to consider is practising.
                                                          
    I child of 13 is much more capable of sitting down and playing 
    guitar solid for ten hours than a guy of 30. Also, (generally 
    speaking) the older you get, the more commitments you have (family, 
    work deadlines etc..) and these things do consume large quantities 
    of time.                                       
                                                   
    I don't get nearly as much time to play as I did when I was 16,
    but this hasn't stopped me progressing and ENJOYING (thats what
    its all about remember!) playing the instrument.
         
    Cheers,
    -Tony

    
    28 years old?  Just a pup!  I just started last year at age 32.
    Get some friends to practice with who already know how to play.  
    I took an intro course at the local University which consisted 
    of about 12 of us strumming along waiting for talent scouts from
    Hee Haw to show up but it was helpful in getting the basics.  The
    really good part of starting later in life is that you are typically
    making more money and there is a fantastic array of new toys out
    there.  One word of caution.  I thought my air guitar-ing would
    subside but it got worse.  Yikes!  As far as practice goes, if you're
    having fun you'll find time.  I quit a couple times when I was a
    kid because I was lazy.  Watcha waitin' for?!
    
    -good luck
    
    pat

    I'm teaching a guy who's 32, and motivated! He's learning at least
    twice as fast as I did when I was just starting at age 10 or 12
    (I can't remember). Go for it!!
    
    Steve

I usta be a full-time guitar teacher with students ranging from 8 to 67.  I 
think there are some age-dependent factors, but they are small in comparison 
to things like motivation, intelligence, desire and proper practice.  

There is obviously some advantage in starting at age 8 and there is some 
disadvantage in starting at age 50, but for the true amateur (= lover) it's 
not significant.

I believe that my 67 year old student got more enjoyment out of his playing
than than 90% of the players I know.

Bob

> I believe that my 67 year old student got more enjoyment out of his playing
> than than 90% of the players I know.

He's 74 now and still cookin'.

Bob

> He's 74 now and still cookin'.

Make that 76.  I lost track of the years.

Bob

    
    I didn't start at 28, I was only 22, but I know what you mean. 
    In fact, I was learning the *bass* which is really sick since it's
    not a solo instrument.  I did stints in garages in my mid twenties
    with 18 year-olds who knew every Zeppelin and Johnny Winter tune
    who were amazed that I didn't know how to play "Heartbreaker" and
    "Rock and Roll Hootchie Koo".
    
    Once you get going, you will realize that playing music is not nearly
    a godlike ability as you may have imagined.  Yes, I once thought
    that Blue Cheer stood at the right hand of Beethoven, but once I
    learned how to play "Louie Louie" from a Ventures play-along record,
    I realized my folly.  I now know that Chuck Berry stands at the right
    hand of Beethoven  8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    Go for it, have fun, play some tunes for your kids and don't be
    shy about it.  If Mick Jagger can pout his lips and swagger around
    like a drunken rooster while pushing 50, then I sure can  8^)  8^)
     
    							
    							Brian

    
    
      You're not alone at all.   I started about 4 weeks ago.  It's
    fun but frustrating as hell sometimes.  Just when I know where to
    find a note without looking at my left hand, my right hand plays
    the wrong string.  But it *is* getting better.  Last night I reviewed
    the previous pages and went thru them quickly and clean.
    
      I am using the Mel Bay book One. Once I get thru that, 3/4s thru
    now, I'll start the Berkley book.  I suppose it should be easy if
    I managed my way through the Mel Bay book.  But I want to be sure
    that I can start taking lessons and have a good solid base.
    
      Of course, I *AM* a beginner.  So everything I am doing could
    be all wrong, but I'll keep on trying.
    
      Any teachers in the Merrimack area?  (No, I really can't go as
    far as Methuen.  Unless he would be that good for a beginner!)
    
      Rick.
    

	After reading this note, I'm curious about whether it would be better
to start with a teacher absolutely from the beginning, or try to teach 
yourself some of the basi via a book.  before finding an instructor?  Those
of you who have taught, what would you prefer - a blank slate, or someone
who isn't completely igorant? Is it possible to pick up some "bad habits" 
that would later have to be unlearned?

						MArk A

    	
    >After reading this note, I'm curious about whether it would be better
    >to start with a teacher absolutely from the beginning, or try to teach 
    >yourself some of the basi via a book.  
    
    Well, I remember way back when I started, I started out by learning
    from a book (Mel Bay 1 -- Ha!), but, I remembered I only got so
    far before I stumbled on some meanings of stuff (I was only 13 at
    the time, so the explanations of Tied notes and dotted values threw
    me).  I got a teacher shortly after, and progressed much quicker...
    having someone there to critque errors and correct my bad habits
    I'd already started forming on my own was a big help.  Also, it
    was nice to have a humna who understood the theory explain it to
    me til I also understood it.
    
    One thing you may try and do is pick up a few beginners books and read
    through them...learn the "lingo"...it will help in communicating with
    your instructor and in your understanding of his presented material. 
    
    >Those of you who have taught, what would you prefer - a blank slate, 
    >or someone who isn't completely igorant? 
    
    Either way...both have the pros n cons.  Someone with a background is
    nice, because you have a point of origin to expand on.  There is the
    threat of learned habits (be them quirky or bad habits) which may be
    hard to break the person of, however.  One thing I remember was I
    ALWAYS downpicked...when I got to lessons and had to do that alternate
    picking...man, I though that was the worst!!!  A clean slate is nice
    because you can mold the students mind and abilities from the
    beginning. 
    
    >Is it possible to pick up some "bad habits" that would later have to 
    >be unlearned?

    As mentioned above, yes!  (things like how the pick is held, posture,
    fingerings, general musical dyslexia, etc.)
    
    So, Books along with an instructor, and read ahead of what he gives you
    to practice, but only practice what is given to you is my motto for
    success.  Its the footwork you can do when you DON'T have a guitar in
    your hands that makes the difference in my book (like visualize
    patterns of scales & chords in your mind, like at lunch, or on breaks,
    etc). 

I pretty much agree with Buck.  Get a good teacher as soon as you can, but
remember that the teacher is just a guide.  I mean, you have to be responsible
for driving your own musical development.  Read, study, observe others and
practice visualization.  Go ahead and try out ideas that occur to you, but 
check them out with the teacher at the next lesson to be sure they're not 
counterproductive.

Bob

...continuing my train of thought...

The most important thing I learned from taking lessons was how to teach 
myself (and others).  If you can understand the method and philosophy behind
your lessons, you're light-years ahead of just doing them by rote.

Bob

    Looks like I'm getting in on the conversation a little late (and to do
    little more then agree with the others...8^).
    
    I was 23 when I started playing seriously.  I'd had some lessons when I
    was about 12, but those were long forgotten.  I learned quickly at
    first, coached by a friend (who really wasn't much better then I was),
    but then stagnated without direction.  I still played every day and
    enjoyed it, but didn't really improve for a couple of years, mostly
    because I ended up playing the same things all the time.
    
    I started taking lessons around '87 and kept them up (off and on) until
    just a couple of months ago.  The only reason I stopped now is that my
    band is taking up pretty much all my extra time and I just don't have
    time to practice for lessons too (and do a good job of it).  The
    lessons gave me the guidence I needed to progress further.  Progressing
    in my ability gave me the confidence to finally join/form a band.  
    
    I still love playing as much or more then I did back in '83 when I
    started playing.  Seeing the growth in your playing makes you feel very
    good.  I'm still not a great player (too bad I wasted about 4 years in
    there, I really regret that), but I truely love playing and wouldn't
    think of ever stopping.
    
    So, I guess I'm agreeing with everyone else in saying that you
    shouldn't let your age stop you from trying (and hopefully enjoying) to
    play, and to get hooked up with a teacher as soon as possible.
    
    Greg
    

    To everyone who's replied, or will reply-Thanks!! I'm overwhelmed
    by the responses.  Needless to say, I can't wait to start jammin'!!
    

    
    
      Based on the replies that I've read, I am approaching this the
    wrong way.  Again...
    
      Does anyone know of any instructors in the Merrimack area?  
    
      Rick.
    
    

    hi from Oz !
    	just thought i'd throw in my six cents worth !  re .18, and playing
    in a band.  I started playing guitar when I was 8, but it wasn't until
    I started playing with other musicians at 13 that I really started to
    take off with my guitar skills.  The main point being that you are
    being relied upon to get it *right* !  So your practice is much more
    productive, and it's more enjoyable to play music with a couple of
    other muso's.  And not just jamming (that has its' place), but serious
    arrangements and playing and practicing.
    	That may be a year or so down the line for our original noter, but
    it should come asap.
    	Lessons vs self-taught.  It's really horses for courses !  I was
    taught, but some of my friends are self taught, and in some things I
    play rings around them, and in others the reverse is true.  Try both,
    and see which is better for you !
    	And most importantly, stick to it ! The pain *is* worth it !
    /harry the hairy one

    
    I'm 34 and just starting to learn...
    
    just do it..that's what I keep telling myself..
    
    
    
                         Kevin

I started at 38.  No problem - just ignore your wife & kids.  Eventually they
will leave you alone.  :-).

/Mike

    
    	Gee guys. I started playing keyboards at 28. Taught myself too.
    Of course 17 years of guitar playing helped. But, basically I feel
    unless you're mntally handicapped in a BIG way, you can just about
    learn anything...until senility creeps in...Rich
    
    

    When I started about a year ago, my wife INSISTED that I practice
    in the bedroom with the door closed. :-)  After a dozen or so lessons
    and 10 months later, I've been promoted to the kitchen.  I was so
    glad too, the acoustics are much better with the tile floor :-)
    
    Mike

    re:.25
    
    How do you do it?  I've been playing 8 years and my wife STILL makes
    me practice in the bedroom....
    
    :-)
    
    Guy

    
       The key is you have to write a song FOR your wife.
    	The rest is cake..........Rich
    

    
    
      Well I am still ploding away and still I enjoy it.
    Can't seem to find an instructor around here though.
    
      BTW,  I picked up a pretty little mandolin yesterday for
    $49.00.  Took it home cleaned it up, restrung it.  Tuned it for
    the better part of an hour before I realized I was an octave to
    low.  Oh well.  Weekends the brain goes to "tilt" I guess.
    
      Rick.
    
    

>           <<< Note 1412.26 by BTOVT::BEST_G "Aporia Trismegistus" >>>
>                           -< With headphones too! >-
>
>    How do you do it?  I've been playing 8 years and my wife STILL makes
>    me practice in the bedroom....
    
    Guy, I don't have an electric, yet.  My acoustic playing has improved
    to my wife's tolerable level :-)
    
    Mike

    ...pretty tough getting those acoustic headphones on, huh?

    Greg (still relegated to the spare bedroom most of the time)

    
    A few years back, my girlfriend complained about me playing the guitar,
    because it took away the attention that she wanted.  She admitted that
    she was jealous of my guitars.  I still have my guitars, in fact I
    replaced her with a Les Paul!!!!
    
    Dave

    yeah, get married to a musician. At least they understand. But
    you have to give them as much practice time as they give you.
    
    -Dave