Conference napalm::guitar

    I like the rhythm players on Aerosmith (Brad Whitford?) and Boston
    (been so long I forgot).

    Mike

    I've always felt that Pete Townshend wrote the book on rhythm
    guitar playing.
    
    One of my favorite examples is a song I don't know the title for -
    I think it's off the "Face Dances" album.  The lyrics go "This
    is no social crisis..."
    
    	db

    I always thought that Andy Summers had an excellent sound.  He plays
    very tasty parts that are primarily in the background.
    
    Greg

    One thing I'm enjoying about being in a 3 peice outfit, is being able
    to play interesting rhythm lines during the verses.  Sure beats banging
    away at a barre chord !  Robin Trower has some tasty moves ....
    
    
    				Scary

I think one guy who doesn't get much credit for his rhythm guitar work
is James Hetfield of Metallica.  IMHO, this guy has got to be one of the 
best rhythm guitarist in the biz.  While he's singing lead and bangin' his
head nobody notices that James *is* the Metallica sound backbone.  I don't
say this because he is so fast, but because of the difficulty of the material
he plays (while singing) and because he is so darn tight.

Even steadfast Clapton fans (right Alan? ;) have to appreciate it.  Scope 
it out !

jc

    While I also appreciate Hetfields playing, I'd hardly call it an
    "invisible groove".  More like a sledgehammer groove...
    
    Greg

    
    Steve Cropper, Leo Neocentelli of the Meters, Ollie McIntyre of AWB,
    the late James Nolen, whoever that guy is on all those Jr. Walker
    records
    
    						Brian

RE .6

Yes !

That boize playing gets me RILED UP !
Makes me wanna slap Madonna or something     ;)

jc

Yeah, and flip off Sean Penn.

;)

jc (Who was just trying to be cute ;)

> Even steadfast Clapton fans (right Alan? ;) have to appreciate it.  Scope 
> it out !

Well, I gotta agree that Hetfield does play some pretty tough changes, over 
wierd times, all while singing, and bashing his head up and down at 68 mph. 
Do not try this at homes, kids!!!!  8^)

Some people who do "little" things that I like:

Andy Summers (Police)
Edge (U2)
Malcolm Young (AC/DC)
Brad Whitford/Joe Perry combination (especially around 'Rocks'/'Draw The Line' 
Steve Howe (Yes)
Keith Richards (World's Greatest Rhythm Guitarist? Probably...)
Jon Ashton (Psychedelic Furs)

Alan S.

re:  <<< Note 1759.10 by NAVIER::STARR "And I'm telling you I'm not going..." >>>

   And others...

>Keith Richards (World's Greatest Rhythm Guitarist? Probably...)

   Since Richards gets credit for being their lead player, shouldn't this
   be Ron Wood?  (Regardless of Richard's "style", which *is* very rhytmic.)

   -- Sam

    -1
    
    I thought it was the otehr way around?!

Yeah, me too! The way I've always understood it, Keith is the rhythm guitar 
player. Ron Wood (and Mick Taylor and Brian Jones) were the 'lead' guitarist 
for the Stones (and they did play most of the leads!). Keith has always been 
the 'rhythm' guitarist.....

Alan S.

	I left the words "rhythm guitarist" out of the base note for a
	reason. There's too much confusion and ignorance about that term.

	Anybody hear the Ernie Isley album yet?

	Who played guitar on Thomas Dolby's "Golden Age of Wireless?"

	BTW - Keith Richards is my pick as world's top groover. (today)
	I'll have to get some metallica & hear this hetfield fellah

    The Stones twins are prime examples that "slow burners" (more loke no
    burners in their case) can stand the test of time with a band without
    all this technical wizardry ..... I don't care for 'em, but it's the
    truth ....pfffffffft ! Thankyou Edith Ann ...	8^)
    
    
    				Scary

    
    
    
    
    				JOHN LENNON
    
    
    
    
    
    Roger

    re: Hetfield
    
    anybody who has "kill BonJovi" written on their guitar is okay by me!

    
    
    .14   I agree, when my current music teacher told me that I was going
    to start learning to play rhythm about a year ago, I was flabbergasted,
    hell I'd been playing what I thought was rhythm for years, but I was
    dead wrong, he showed me (gently) that I wasn't capable of playing the
    simplest rhythm correctly.  Now that my rhytm playing is getting
    better, I'm beginning to listen to rhythms.. and the guy who blows me
    away with his rhythm savy is SRV, I know... I know he ain't exactly
    invisible, but the man can count to four in ways that blow me away...

When asked (in a Guitar Player interview) what his next
technical contribution to the guitar world would be 
Jamez Hetfield said:

"Well, I need a beer holder for my guitar"

Agagagagagagaaa...

James is a character for sure !

BTW - Anyone wishing to hear Jamez style, but who don't know Metallica,
be warned, Metallica is an aquired taste (kinda like yogurt I guess).
I suggest:

Master Of Puppets - Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
...And Justice For All - One, Eye Of The Beholder, Harvester Of Sorrow etc..

jc

    An old teacher of mine once told me than before one can become an
    excellent lead guitarist, they must become an excellent rhythm
    guitarist.
    
    Mike

re:  The Stones guitarists

   Opps.  You guys are probably right.  I had always assume Richards was
   the lead player since he was always the more flamboyant.  Never knew for
   sure, so I'll defer to the consensus.  ("Boy, is my face red!"  :-))

re:  Metallica

    Having heard so much about these guys (pro and con) I decided I had to
    get an album of theirs just to listen to 'em.  I ordered their double-
    record set (have forgotten the name) and it hasn't arrived yet.  Is 
    this a good sampler/introduction to their stuff, and if so, which songs
    would people recommend?

re:  SRV  -  Did anyone catch last night's "Unplugged" on EmpTyVee?  They
     had both SRV and Satriani doing acoustic stuff!  It was amazing, and
     yes, I got it on tape.

re:  .20

     Mike, does this mean I should start calling myself our rhythm guitar
     player?  :-)  (FYI - I have the above mentioned vid tape with me for
     tonight's tape making session...)

     -- Sam

    RE. .20
    I agree.
    
    I've worked with quite a few guitarists, and I'm amazed at the scarcity
    of those who can't (or won't) play a simple rhythm when the song
    calls for it.  The best ones I've worked with may not do the flashiest
    lead work - but they knew how to make the singer sound GREAT.
    
    Isn't that something of what bands are all about, anyway?
    
    					--Eric--
    
    Re. a few others
    	I always felt that John Lennon was a "solid" rhythm guitarist
    - even today his work sounds fresh and new.  Ditto Tom Fogerty....
    [Oops - giving my age away there.....! ;-)......]

    RE. 21
    
    Metallica...Well, here is a listing of stylistic/classic tunz off
    each respective album (IMHO):
    
    o Kill Em All -- Seek & Destroy
    o Ride the Lightning -- Creeping Death, Fight Fire With Fire
    o Master of Puppets -- same, Sanitarium
    o ...and Justice for All -- Blackened,  Dyers Eve

    re .20
    
    Yep.  Just listen to Jimi.  Best rhythm player I ever heard, all the
    amazing leads notwithstanding.
    
    Will

      ditto on that statement in .20 - and great rhythm players seem to
    be harder and harder to come by. I think it was Bettencourt in a
    recent interview that mentioned Pat Travers as a big influence
    mainly because of the context of his rhythm playing. It's great
    when a well known axeman says something in an interview that seems like
    something you wouold have said. So guess who one of my big influences
    is?
    
    						-BoOm-

Metallica has a Double Album set ??

Naaahhh... Really ?

I'll tell you the tune that really changed my mind about Metallica
(I used to HATE Metallica).

It's called "Fade To Black" and is the story of a youth contemplating
suicide.  Pretty damn heavy subject matter, but hey this is realism
at it's finest (or nastiest).  The song has a beautiful melodic
feel to it, has some awesome lead guitar work, and also shows
the high-speed pounding rhythm work of Hetfield/Hammett.  MesaBoogie fans
would be proud.

Fade To Black is to be found on "Ride The Lightning", 4th track. ;)

jc (Who sez you gotta have a fast right hand to play Metallica)

   re: .last (Double Metallica)

   Don't know for sure, 'cause I haven't gotten the album yet.  Ordered it
   thru a CD club where (I coulda sworn) it was listed as, "2 album set or 
   double length CD".  The "... And justice ..." title sounds _real_
   familiar.  I'll probably know for sure later this week.

   -- Sam

    
    How about Johnny Marr from The Smiths and The The?  He layers a lot
    of thick rhythms (<--tough word to spell!) using electric and acoustic
    rhythms plus a lot of subtle fills.

    re: .21
    
    I dunno, Sam!  Ain't too many folks I've heard that can play and
    sound like Keith Richard's like you do!  One of these days, you'll
    have to show me how you get that Stones rhythm sound out of that
    Kitty Hawk/Gibson!  :^)
    
    re: past few
    
    In thing that will force you to become good at rhythm/lead is to
    join a Three-Piece band!!  Whew!  What a nightmare!  :^(
    
    Actually, if you look at some of the past great three-piece bands
    such as Robin Trower, Hendrix, Z*pp*lin, Billy Gibbons perform 
    LIVE on stage, you'll see just how rhythm/lead coordinated they really
    are/were.
    
    cheers/mike

I think I have the answer...

Metallica's ...And Justice For All... is like a 64 minute album.
And I know this is one of the few offered by Columbia House
CD club.

I love that album !  It's my fave next to Master Of Puppets.
I hope you like it as well.

jc (Who sez: Blackened *IS* The Word !)

    
    
    
    I always liked Randy Bachman's rhythm guitar work, particulary
    on "American Woman" and "She's Come Undone" from his GUESS WHO
    years, and "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet" and "Looking Out for
    Number 1" during his BTO years.
    
    Gary Richrath (sp?) of REO did some nice rhythm work on the
    "High Infidelity" album.
    
    They say Bob Weir of the Dead is a tremendous rhythm player...
    
    Brian

"...And Justice For All" is a double album. But it's also a single cassette or 
CD......

Alan S.

    There is an art to catchy rhythm playing ... in an older band (2EZ), I
    had a blast on the original tunes working out rythm patterns for Coop's
    leads.  Lay down a nice canvas, and the picture is prettier, ya know ?
    
    
    
    				Scary

    
    re .31
    
    I agree completely that Bob Weir is a great rhythm player!!  A lot of
    people might not want to admit to feeling that way, though.  Even Jerry
    Garcia laughs when tries to describe Weir's playing.  He throws in
    funky riffs and rhythms off of his chords that just FIT.  Its Weird.
    
    However, in the past ten years he's been getting overpowered on stage
    by the keyboard player....
    
    He's a very under-rated musician.
    
    Dave

    
    	re: a bunch about kieth
    
    	When I saw the stones on the sticky fingers tour is 72(?), 
    	Kieth was definitly THE rhythm player.  Its very tough to 
    	compete with Mick Taylor.  Mick, at the time, was probably
    	the best in the biz IMHO.
    
    	But when I saw the boys in summer of 89, Kieth didnt play all
    	rhythm.  Also Ron didnt play all lead.  The 89 show was real 
    	good.  The 72 show was incredible!  The 72 band was the 5 stones
    	plus Nicky Hopkins plus Bobby Keys and Jim Horn.  On top of that
    	Stevie Wonder opened and came back with the boys for 4 oncore
    	numbers.
    
    	t
    

    	I sent away for tickets for that '72 show.  Must have been
    	awesome!!  Is SUBWAY::YATES, Tom Yates of Sunny Down Snuff/
    	F,Y,& B fame per chance?
    
    	joe.

    
    	Nope.  Wrong guy.  I live in NJ and work in NYC.
    
    	Is this other guy ( who uses my name ) any good?
    
    
    	the real Tom Yates
    
    

    Yes the other Tom Yates is excellent.
    
    	joe.

	Pete Townshend is still the best...

	One guy I'm partial to who hasn't been mentioned is Robert
	Smith of the Cure. Check out the "Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me"
	album in particular, tracks like "Hot Hot Hot". Not quite
	invisible, but he can really push a tune.

	Mike