Conference napalm::guitar

Well, actually the only one who really knows is the
person playing....  Some people will tend to equate
certain licks, riffs, or solos as 'played with feeling'
but that's just the impression...

    From a players point of view, I know what it means to play with
    emotion.  It's a certain feeling you get when the notes, phrases,
    beats seem to be coming out almost of their own free will, as if
    each one *had* to be exactly where it was.  It's like riding a wave.
    You experience deep feelings (joy, sadness, anger, whatever) while
    you're playing, and you seem to be channeling those feelings into
    the music.  Your mind is thinking about these things, and not what
    scale you're playing or where the next change comes.  It's like a
    level above the normal mode.
    
    This situations don't happen all the time, but it's the search for this
    experience that keeps me motivated in music.  I don't think even the pros
    can summon it at will.  In fact, I think part of being a pro is being able
    to fake it somewhat; to give the impression to the audience that you're
    really feeling it when half the time you're not.
    
    /rick

    I think music played by humans almost always expresses an emotion. 
    Music played my machines (sequencers, etc.) may not, depending largely
    on the skill of the person programming the machine.
    
    The question of *what* emotion is more interesting.  For someone who is
    technically incompetent, the emotion expressed may just be joy or
    excitement.  For someone who is a master musician, the emotions
    expressed can be much more deep and/or subtle.
    
    The real art (for me) is when a composer or songwriter can create a
    piece of music such that many different people performing that music
    can extract a similar emotion, i.e. the emotional content is inherent
    in the composition itself.
    
    The exact mechanism of generating the emotion may differ from one
    musician to another, but in some music it seems so obvious (to me).  A
    case in point might be the music of Free.  If you compare it to the
    music of Bad Company, on the *surface* it seems much the same.  After
    all the lead singer/lyricist (Paul Rodgers) and drummer (Simon Kirke)
    were the same in both bands.  
    
    However, most of Free's music expressed a sadness and desperation while
    Bad Company seemed to be very upbeat.  I find the source of the sadness
    to be in the playing of Paul Kossoff, and while he certainly uses lots
    of blues bends it's more in his overall phrasing; he sounds tired and
    about ready to fall apart. 
    
    Wondering if anyone else picks this up in his playing.  He and Peter
    Green are my two favorite blues-rock players simply because they always
    sound so tortured.  Of course, when you find out about their personal
    lives, it's easy to see why their playing evokes those feelings in a
    listener.
    
    As far as Steve Morse goes, I find his playing *and* compositions very
    emotional.  In fact, probably the most appealing thing to me is not his
    technique, but the fact that he is able to project subtle emotions so
    well.  What's that piece for "What If", something like "Light on
    Light"?  That was the first Morse music I ever heard, and even today
    it's beauty can transfix me.  It reminds me of the feeling I get when I
    come out onto the summit of a mountain and look around.
    
    							Brian

	To me, while feeling has alot to do with "technique", it doesn't 
	necessarily translate to "technical prowess".  Feeling is a
	human emotion and the closer your playing gets to human-like,
	the more likely humans will feel it.  By human-like, I guess I 
	mean like a vocal.  

	And I believe that's why alot of people "feel" instruments such
	as sax and guitar more than keyboards.  Guitar and sax are, to
	me, more able to be vocal-like with the natural bending, vibrato,
	attack, etc...  Someone like Wayne Shorter is, to me, the ultimate
	in playing with feeling. 

	A Jeff Beck interview in this month's Musician has him saying that
	he plays metal at home - no one hears it - and, while he recognizes
	the technique of the shredders, he feels he's better because his
	playing is far more "angry".  Bingo - as usual with Beck, it's
	the feeling that he's after.

	The more your playing simulates a human expressing the emotion
	you're after, the more you and your audience will feel it.

	That's my take anyway.. good topic!

	Tom

    I remember an interview with Clapton talking about the early days,
    saying that the goal him and Beck and Page were shooting for was
    to evoke the feeling of riding around in a fancy limousine that
    smelled like sex in the back seat :-). It's a lot easier to evoke
    these kind of feelings at home than it is on stage. Usually when
    I'm on stage I'm feeling like my foot itches or the monitor mix
    isn't very good or whatever.
    
    - Dave

>    As far as Steve Morse goes, I find his playing *and* compositions very
>    emotional.  In fact, probably the most appealing thing to me is not his
>    technique, but the fact that he is able to project subtle emotions so
>    well.  What's that piece for "What If", something like "Light on
>    Light"?  That was the first Morse music I ever heard, and even today
>    it's beauty can transfix me.  It reminds me of the feeling I get when I
>    come out onto the summit of a mountain and look around.
    
    Wow!  My initial response is "what he said".
    
    "Night Meets Light" IS my favorite Morse tune, with "What If" being
    close to the top as well.  And NEITHER of these tunes contains any
    real display of excelled technique.  In fact, "Night Meets Light"
    is the ONLY Morse tune I can play.
    
    At the risk of letting my hair down a bit to make a point, I frequently
    listen to those with Headphones on in the dark and it's never anything
    short of a breathtaking experience.  My heart pounds, my spirits lift,
    I get adrenalized and forget about the world.  It's almost like it
    takes me to some fantasy place.
    
    And THAT is why I can totally dismiss the claim about Morse playing
    without emotion as silly and unfounded.  I can think of no other piece
    of music that elicits such a strong emotional response from me.
    
    	db

    I have no idea.     :-)

    I second the comment about Peter Green and Paul Kossoff... two of the
    better blues-derived rockers from the late 60's-70's. 


    	I've been accused of being one of those "if it don't sound like
    blues, it ain't got feeling" people. It's true that my philosphy about
    playing guitar is alot closer to the Zen Archer than Shred Master, but
    I listen to everything as openly as possible.
    
    	To me, playing with feeling simply means that the player is
    successful at evoking some kind of emotion in the listener. The
    emotion could be joy, it could be anger, it could be some kind of
    sexual tension... any emotion that fits the song.
    
    	The problem that I have with people like Yngwie is that the only
    thing I sense from his playing is that he's trying to impress me...
    "Weeee-- Lookit how awesome I am!" That doesn't qualify as emotion
    in my book.
    
    	The guitarists that I consider to play with "feeling" tend to be
    blues or blues-ish players... B.B. King and Stevie Ray Vaughan are
    at the top of my list; Allbert Collins is there, Hendrix, Page, Beck 
    and Clapton are there... David Gilmour of Pink Floyd... Pete Townshend... 
    there's alot of them.
    
    	But I don't restrict "playing with feeling" to blues players and
    60's survivors/casualties... I think Joe Satriani plays with tons of
    feeling. So does Larry Carlton, so does Albert Lee. And though I never
    liked The Dregs, I'll give Mr. Blickstien a nod and say that Steve
    Morse is pretty good, too.
    
    	Of course, not everything these guys have played is an emotional
    masterpiece.... even my heroes Stevie Ray & B.B. have had some
    unspectacular moments. And there's been plenty of guitarists who
    are average but managed to play that one great solo. I have a bunch
    of favorite solos, most of which were not played by the "Big Name"
    guitarists. 
    
    	I've always loved the solo on The Commodores' "Easy". Russ Ballard
    played one of the most beautiful lap-steel solos I've heard on a song
    called "Thinking" from one of Roger Daltrey's first solo LP's. Jimmy
    McColloch's solo on the Wings live version of "Maybe I'm Amazed" is
    great. Ronny Montrose's version of "Town Without Pity" was always fun
    to listen to. There's many more that slip my mind right now.
    
    	
    	Ultimately, it doesn't matter if you're playing heavy metal, pop,
    blues, jazz, or whatever... I think playing with feeling simply means
    that you're trying your best to convey the emotion of the song itself;
    when you're too busy trying to be flashy, trying to play something
    impressive, technically difficult, and you forget about capturing the
    essential emotion behind the song, then you run the risk of playing
    one of those dreaded emotionless solos.
    
    	
    
    Brad
    
    
    	

    re: .-1
    
    You mentioned Yngwie - I think his later albums became more technique
    oriented, but his first solo album, "Rising Force" definitely stirs
    up a lot of emotion (mostly a sort of ominous "anger").  Particular
    the first cut on the album.
    
    I think a lot of people just automatically dismiss technique and speed
    as a "substitute" for emotion, whereas my opinion is that they really
    are tools to achieve it (when used with that intent).
    
    HOwever, even sheer speed can be an emotional experience.  I never
    thought much of Michael Angelo's compositional skills (he's probably
    the fastest player I've ever heard) but god, it can be awfully exciting
    to listen to some of his stuff.  It's just that you tire of it very
    quickly.
    
    	db

    
    	Even on Yngwie's first albums, his playing sounded more like
    bluster than anger to me. I guess I might describe it as Yngwie-
    trying-to-sound-like-Richie-Blackmore-sounding-angry. Blackmore
    was one of the first (and for my money, still the best) angry
    "metal" guitarists.
    
    	I don't dismiss technique, speed or anything else... as far as
    I'm concerned, EVERYTHING contributes to-- or takes away from-- a
    players ability to convey emotion in their playing. Even equipment
    plays a big role in your ability to deliver a convincing emotional
    performance. I just think that you have to keep your eyes on the
    prize-- keep your focus on The Song, not on your gear, speed, technical
    proficiency, or ego.
    
    
    Brad
     

    Actually Vai said it best, "This is a ballad dat I wrote.  It's all,
    it's all about peace and love and good happiness stuff."

>    You mentioned Yngwie - I think his later albums became more technique
>    oriented, but his first solo album, "Rising Force" definitely stirs
>    up a lot of emotion (mostly a sort of ominous "anger").  Particular
>    the first cut on the album.
 
    The song that really blew my mind, and struck me as very emotional, on
    that album was "Black Star".  I can't remember if it was the first cut
    or not.  I agree, Yng's later albums sounded more "geared to impress"
    then anything else.  
       
>    I think a lot of people just automatically dismiss technique and speed
>    as a "substitute" for emotion, whereas my opinion is that they really
>    are tools to achieve it (when used with that intent).
    
    Well stated, I agree completely.
    
>    HOwever, even sheer speed can be an emotional experience.  I never
>    thought much of Michael Angelo's compositional skills (he's probably
>    the fastest player I've ever heard) but god, it can be awfully exciting
>    to listen to some of his stuff.  It's just that you tire of it very
>    quickly.
    
    I also agree on this point, and Michael Angelo is a good example
    because I also find his playing exciting, however I've also heard other
    extremely fast players that didn't have this effect on me.  My
    standard example is Chris Impelliterri, I can't stand his stuff, bores
    me to tears.
    
    Greg

    I play with emotion and feeling:
    
    	Each time I play I feel like I am going to stuff up.
    
    	When I do stuff up, I feel the emotion of anger 8^).
    
    P.K.

    
    Another way of looking at this is to identify people who just don't play
    with feeling (rarely professionals). I have two friends who play guitar
    (learning actually) and neither has any concept of feeling. Yes, they
    can strum all the chords but there is no feeling. You can get so much
    feeling with one down stroke its not true and yet these two cannot
    appreciate this. I've come to the conclusion you cannot teach feeling.
    I would not rate myself high on technical skills but I'd give myself
    10/10 for feeling. If only my technical skills could make my fingers do
    what I hear in my mind!
    
    Richard 

Ah, *these* are the notes that I really enjoy - never was one for that GTS
business!!

I'd go along with a good deal of what's been said so far. I'm forever preaching
about Messrs. Green and Kossoff in this and other conferences. For me, guitar
playing just doesn't get any more emotional than this. A couple of tracks to
prove the point? Just try listening to "Mr.Big" (Free) and "Need Your Love So
Bad" (Fleetwood Mac).

For me, there are two different ways in which music appeals to me on an
emotional level. I used to think that the only type of "feeling" was the
gut-wrenching, nerve-shaking emotion that you might get from Otis Redding's
version of A Hard Day's Night. The sort of music that practically implores you
to get up and move about.

But I'm also conscious of another more subtle type of emotion that tends to
make your spine tingle - even though your feet may remain firmly on the ground!
This could be the result of a particularly moving chord progression. An example
might be "I Talk To The Wind" by King Crimson. I liked the analogy that someone
made in a previous note about reaching the summit of a mountain; this song
makes me think of a bird in flight (in fact, I'm forever hearing it used as
background music in natural history documentaries!)

It's amusing to compare which musicians different people find "emotional". For
example, although Peter Green/Paul Kossoff touch a nerve in me, I've never been
particularly moved by Roy Buchanan who is often cited as a very emotional blues
player. Perhaps that's what's so great about music - it's such a personal
thing. I get an emotional lift from Dvorak, Art Farmer, the Flamin' Groovies
and Stiff Little Fingers!    

Over the years, I have a weakness for tasteful string arrangements in pop/rock 
music, such as "Broken Arrow" (Buffalo Springfield), "Summer The First Time"
(Bobby Goldsboro'...don't knock it before you've heard it!), "Turn My Head
Towards Home" (Al Kooper), "Andmoreagain" (Love), etc. Real chokers, all!

But this is the GUITAR conference, so I'll sign off by recommending a few 
pieces of guitar-based music that say it all for me. These are guaranteed to
outrage the purists and the shredders amongst you; in fact, they're not all
guitar solos as such, but I find them irresistible! If you've already heard
them, you'll know what I mean:

"I'm Your Witchdoctor" - John Mayall's B'breakers w/Eric Clapton (specifically,
the high sustained note at the end of each verse)
"Boredom" - The Buzzcocks
"I Want You" - Elvis Costello
"Wooden Ships" - Jefferson Airplane (solo by Jorma Kaukonen)
"Heartful Of Soul" - The Yardbirds (solo by Jeff Beck)
"The Knife" - Genesis (solo by Anthony Phillips)
"It's All Over Now" - Rolling Stones (solo by Keith Richard) 
"Danger Bird" Neil Young

Apologies for all these recommendations, but music says it better than words!

Dom

    The mention of JA's "Wooden Ships" is interesting; that is a very
    emotional tune and it's not simple black-and-white emotions either.
    The song is about surivors of some sort of tragic world conflict
    (it could almost any place and time, one of the song's charms).  There
    are no simple words to describe what that would really feel like, but
    the music is able to convey those emotions quite well.  I've always
    liked this version much better than Crosby Stills Nash one, which
    seems to miss the point.  Here also is a case where just the tone of
    Jorma's guitar plays a large role in conveying emotion.
    
    /rick

    This is like discussing religion or art.....everybody has different
    internals that get different responses from different music.  If Steve
    Morse gets me to react emotionally (and he does), then he's playing with 
    emotion "for me".  2 of my high school buddies used to argue endlessly
    about whether or not this particular young lady was attractive.  "She
    is!" says one; "No way" says the other.  I just watched and laughed.
    
    Besides Steve Morse stuff, I have several tunes that will make me stop
    what I'm doing and turn the radio ALL THE WAY UP:  Cream's "Crossroads"
    (the live one), Boston's "More Than a Feeling"......many guys say these
    tunes 'suk', but they put me out in ya ya land.....
    
    whatever,
    
    dawg

    I tend to line up with 'dawg in that plying with F&E is internal to the
    performer, and if that gets communicated to the listener it's either
    (a) coincidence, or (b) a function of what the listener brings to the
    experience. For all I know, when B. B. Bluesmaster delivered that gut-
    wrenching solo he may have been thinking about the leak in his septic
    system or the significance of EXE$GL_HWTYPE_LENGTH, yet Ollie Audience
    found the meaning of life in 32 measures...
    
    Which isn't to say that I never connect with certain pieces, but it's
    probably safe to say the ones that DO catch my ear aren't the ones
    that would catch someone else's.
    
    Edd 

    >If only my technical skills could make my fingers do what I hear in my
    mind!
    
    teehee mine do but not with a guitar!
    
    c, martin

    
    Intersting topic. I play piano (and a little Guitar). To me, a lot of
    the "emotion" and "feeling" is learned technique combined with the
    artist's mood at the particular moment. You guys haven't really talked 
    about "dynamics" but to me that combined with and exaggerated rhythms
    and bends is where the emotions come out. 
    
    It's interesting to experiment with a song and first play all of the
    notes at the same volume level. Than play it again with Crescendos as
    you go up and an exaggerated de Crescendo as you come back down. Than
    try it again holding the top note in the phrase just a little longer 
    than the rest. I think the people who play with the most feeling and
    emotion have these techniques in the bag. They practice like hell and
    than have a sense of *exactly* when and where to apply each technique.
    
    I think much of this can be learned with practice, but I also think 
    that the sense of what goes where, and when is a real talent that some
    people have, and some don't. 
    
    Sorry if I "Waxed Philosophical" a bit
    
    Rich
    
                                          

    
    	Dynamics is absolutely one of the keys to playing with feeling.
    This is why so many of the heavy metal shredders lack emotion in
    their playing; with their distortion boxes cranked and all that signal
    processing, the sound ends ups so compressed that you can't tell a
    quiet passage from a loud one. Some of these guys don't seem much
    interested in "quiet passages" anyway...
    
    
    Brad
    

    RE: -1
    
    Some of my favorite players and solos are *really* expressive and emit
    emotion with their axes plugged straight into an amp, and they are NOT
    playing a bazillion notes per measure.......but I am a simple person.
    
    Go ahead Dave Hickernell, take yer best shot!
    
    8^)

    >...but I am a simple person.
    
    No shame there, pal.  It's these complex folks who cause all the
    world's problems.  %^)
    
    Dave

    re: -all
    
    I would have to agree the last few comments especially. Feeling is
    something the listener will pull out of a song and that is different
    with each person. My personal favorite is Satriani's - "Cryin'". I've
    seen lots of talk about him vs Vai for who has more emotion in these
    notes. They both have songs that evoke a different feeling. 
    
    What about songs that can pluck out memories from your mind? Isn't that
    an element of emotion? A friend of mine just loves Van Halen's 5150
    album because of the times he spent with his friends in California. I
    have a person affection for James Taylor's - "Somthing in the way she
    moves", because it brings out fond memories of my bride to be.
    
    There is more than just - How do I feel? It's more what do I feel, what
    was I doing when I first heard this? Stuff like that.
    
    I love songs that can do that. If I sit and listen to a song and I
    don't think about something or see the image that the song might want
    to present (for instance - Red Barchetta, Court of the Crimson King, 
    or even Xanadu, by Olivia Newton John), I usually don't listen to that
    song to much afterwards.
    
    
    Just my 2 rubels worth ...
    
    Chris