Conference napalm::guitar

    I remember: 
    "...cut off my d*ck with a power tool, fixin' the hole where the meteor 
    hit the barn..."
    
    ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
    
    One of the greatest non-hits of all time !
    
    I'll see what I can dig up. 
    
    Paul

and no RODEO song ???????

Woa....

    
    RE: -1
    
    >>> and no RODEO song ???????
    
    Already got it ...(one of my all-time country favorites!!)
    
    /Billy_K
    

    I dunno why rockers always wanna do C&W comedy tunes which were
    performed by rock bands rather than some *good* C&W comedy tunes
    written by actual country msucians (who have a right to make fun of
    themselves).
    
    I'm partial to a great Jerry Lee Lewis weeper that any bar-band
    musician can relate to: "I Can Still Hear The Music In The Restroom".  
    
    						Tex

    I'm partial to 'Ain't No UFO Gunna Catch My Diesel' by Joe Dolce from
    Australia. :-)

    Re: .5
    
    That can't be the original?  One pal of mine said a band called Brush
    Arbor did that one.  My cousin's band rewrote it from memory after
    hearing it one night on the radio coming home from a gig.  I compared
    notes with my pal on the two versions, and at least my cousin got the
    chorus straight 8^)  8^)
    
    							Brian

    RE: .4
    
    >>> I dunno why rockers always wanna do C&W comedy tunes which were
    >>> performed by rock bands rather than some *good* C&W comedy tunes
    >>> written by actual country msucians
    
    I guess because I'm a rocker who listens to rock bands
    as opposed to C&W... Go figure???
    
    Also, aren't *good* and C&W mutually exclusive ???
    
    (Just kiddin'!!!!, a cheap shot, I know... but too easy to pass up ;^)
    
    /Billy_K

    How about "Pothead C&W" "Don't Bogart That Joint"
    (Sounded like Buck Owens, but it *can't* be.)
    
    There are lots of good C&W songs (No, I *can't* think of any right
    now.); it's just that they're not the same ones that climb the C&W
    charts.
    
    Paul
    

re: last few

I dunno, I guess C&W music has always gone right over my head too. The nearest
thing we ever had to a C&W fad in Britain was probably the skiffle thing in the
late 50s/early 60s (ever heard Lonnie Donnegan singing "Rock Island Line"?!).

Sure, there are a few C&W enthusiasts around the country - I remember John
Lennon saying that there was a strong C&W following in Liverpool. But of the
music imported to Britain by American servicemen, young Brits invariably
plumped for black music styles in preference to C&W. Jimmy Reed was amazed at 
how he was received in British clubs, after being largely ignored in the 
States.  

Likewise, I find C&W to be totally "foreign" to me, whereas I can relate to
blues, R&B and soul without any problem. I was so disappointed when I first
listened to the Flying Burrito Brothers; after hearing so much about Gram 
Parsons' songwriting abilities, I just found most of the songs to be bland 
3-chord efforts with little sign of a hook in the melody. The lyrics were 
intelligent enough, admittedly, though a little corny at times. Probably the 
only song that grabbed me was "Hot Burrito No. 2"(?), not exactly a traditional
C&W tune. Still, I refrain from criticising C&W; I think it's a perfectly valid
musical form, it just ain't part of my culture!

So, come on, you C&W fans; what is it that you find so attractive about this
music? Maybe I'm missing something...

Dom

    >So, come on, you C&W fans; what is it that you find so attractive about
    >this music? Maybe I'm missing something...
    
    Well, it's music for adults, not kids.  Rock has had a heck of a time
    trying to grow up (lyrically).  Even Chuck Berry in his prime was
    writing for teenagers.  There's a point where this "oh babe, tonight
    we're going to go for it" or "I'm a mean mofo" stuff don't cut it
    anymore.  For a while in the 70s I though the prog rockers would do it
    but they dissipated rapidly into a lyrical fairy world.
    
    But C&W, now *there* is stuff I can relate to.  Losing your job, hanging
    out at the bar because your old lady dumped you, cheating on your old
    lady, your old lady marrying your dad, etc. etc.  More like real life the
    way I see it!  Plus a lot of it is funny, I think many people overlook
    intentional humor in country tunes.  Anybody who writes songs like "What
    Part Of No Don't You Understand", "She Got The Gold Mine, I Got The
    Shaft" or "Drop Kick Me Jesus Through The Goal Posts Of Life" *can't*
    be serious!  
    
    As far as being dangerously wasted dudes, country stars have it *way*
    over rockers: Hank Williams died in the back seat of a Cadillac on New
    Year's Eve in 1951, ODed on booze and pills, a good thirty years before
    Bon Scott or John Bonham would figure out how to do it.  I'd like to see
    Axl Rose keep up with Johnny Cash, who's probably kicked more bad
    habits than Axl has acquired yet.  Plus Johnny usually plays his shows,
    doesn't beat up his fans and can be safely photographed without a riot
    ensuing.
    
    Musically, country has great guitar work, and I enjoy the steel and
    fiddle stuff as well.  The rhythm sections are extremely understated
    but I enjoy that.  For those who talk about "the song is the thing",
    C&W is perhaps the ultimate of that school of thought today.  Also,
    there is no fear of playing waltzes, and I *love* waltzes.  For real
    crazed playing, I enjoy the western swing and "hillbilly jazz"
    subgenres, these get little airplay these days (the styles peaked in
    the 50s) but there's some *smoking* stuff out there.
    
    							Tex

re: .9

>Likewise, I find C&W to be totally "foreign" to me, whereas I can relate to
>blues, R&B and soul without any problem. I was so disappointed when I first
>listened to the Flying Burrito Brothers; after hearing so much about Gram 
>Parsons' songwriting abilities, I just found most of the songs to be bland 
>3-chord efforts with little sign of a hook in the melody. The lyrics were 
>intelligent enough, admittedly, though a little corny at times. Probably the 
>only song that grabbed me was "Hot Burrito No. 2"(?), not exactly a traditional
>C&W tune. Still, I refrain from criticising C&W; I think it's a perfectly valid
>musical form, it just ain't part of my culture!

While I'm a fan of the Burrito Brothers, their output was very uneven.  When
they were good they were very good, but when they were bad they could make
you cringe.  Personally, I think Gram Parson's best work wasn't with the
Burrito Brothers at all, but rather his solo album "The Return of the
Grievous Angel".  Except for one (or maybe two) song, it's all duets with
(a very young) EmmyLou Harris.  They seemed to bring out the best in each
other's voices.  I never heard either of them sing that well separately.

The Burrito Brothers also weren't a country band, but rather a country-rock
band.  There's definitely a difference.

-Hal

    re: .6
    
    I think its the original. The song is by Joe Dolce, from Australia, and
    the album came out in 1979 or 80 or so. I bought the album for the
    song. :-)
    

    Re: .12
    
    My cousin's band recorded that song in 77, so unless you're off by a few
    years, Dolce aint the original...is that the same guy who did "Shaddup
    Your Face"?  Still got the record?
    
    							Brian

    
    
    Maybe Bill Wyman has some country songs in 'im: if I got this straight,
    his son wants to marry Bill's ex-wife's mother.  Throw in some first
    cousins somewhere and there's a country song of the 1st order!
    
    

    re: -1
    
    I'd like to introduce yew to my papa's former mother-in-law and my
    wife....yes I know there's only one person standing here......yew
    figger it out!

re: .14
    
>    Maybe Bill Wyman has some country songs in 'im: if I got this straight,
>    his son wants to marry Bill's ex-wife's mother.  Throw in some first
>    cousins somewhere and there's a country song of the 1st order!
    
The song's already been more or less done!  There's a song
called "I'm My Own Grandpa".  Unfortunately, I can't remember the
name of anyone who did it.  Perhaps Brian knows, he seems to know
just about everything else! :-)

-Hal

    RE .0:
    I checked. It ain't in my computer (which usually means it doesn't
    exist). I could slog my way through it, but I probably only know the
    parts that you already know.
    
    Paul

    Re: .16
    
    Gee, glad you have such faith in me.
    
    Homer and Jethro did "I'm My Own Grandpa".  
    
    							Brian

    I used to *love* Homer and Jethro as a kid!!!  I'm sure a lot of the
    humor went over my head though.
    
    Greg

    RE .19:
    Yeah, most of that stuff was pretty subtle & sophisticated. ;-)
    PG

Hmm, I see this discussion has moved on a little overnight! Harkening back a
few replies:

re: .10
    
    >But C&W, now *there* is stuff I can relate to.  Losing your job, hanging
    >out at the bar because your old lady dumped you, cheating on your old
    >lady, your old lady marrying your dad, etc. etc.  More like real life the
    >way I see it!  Plus a lot of it is funny, I think many people overlook
    >intentional humor in country tunes.  Anybody who writes songs like "What
    >Part Of No Don't You Understand", "She Got The Gold Mine, I Got The
    >Shaft" or "Drop Kick Me Jesus Through The Goal Posts Of Life" *can't*
    >be serious!  
    
Oh, I couldn't agree more! In fact, I wouldn't dream of criticising the lyrical
content of C&W songs, except for a certain "syrupiness" that sometimes
prevails. The subject matter is probably more mature and nearer to real life 
than in any other genre. The songwriters are also adept at finding an original
angle on issues that you'd think had been whipped to death.

    >Musically, country has great guitar work, and I enjoy the steel and
    >fiddle stuff as well.  The rhythm sections are extremely understated
    >but I enjoy that.  

Once again, I quite agree. I remember seeing Eric Clapton in Brighton about
12-13 years ago, when his band included Albert Lee, Gary Brooker and Donald
"Duck" Dunn. Surprisingly enough, Clapton and Lee complemented each other
quite well. Lee had a solo spot (where Clapton just played rhythm) and he did a
couple of country tunes that took the audience's collective breath away - some 
    of the most dazzling picking I've ever seen. And as I said in .9, British 
    audiences (and this audience had come to see EC, remember) tend not to 
    appreciate country music which perhaps made it all the more astounding!

Re. C&W drummers: a mate of mine back in the UK who is a *superb* drummer of
some 20 years experience once told me that the best live performance he'd ever
seen was from the drummer of EmmyLou Harris & the Hot Band, whom he saw at 
Wembley Stadium in the seventies.   

However, I *do* find the songs melodically unexciting (too often an
unimaginative variation on the three chord trick). And call me fussy if you
like, but the sound of a pedal steel guitar just does not touch a nerve in me
the way blues slide guitar does (not to mention a wailing harp!).

re: .11

>The Burrito Brothers also weren't a country band, but rather a country-rock
>band.  There's definitely a difference.

    Yeah, I'm aware of that, though probably not to the same extent that
    you are.  But from what I've heard of the FBBs (a compilation that included
    practically everything from the first two albums), I don't see any great 
    structural difference between the sort of songs that Gram Parsons wrote and
    songs written by, say, Dwight Yoakam. In terms of chord structure, melody, 
    etc., they sound pretty alike (to my ears anyway). Hmm, I'm ready to be
    shot down by the Nashville C&W Appreciation Society for this one!

I think a lot of it is about what you're exposed to at an early age. No one in
my house listened to C&W so perhaps it's only normal that it seems a foreign
culture to me now. Come to think of it, I myself listen to practically 
    everything, but I never seem to be able to satisfy the casual visitor 
    (i.e. non-musician) to our house:

John Coltrane - "Yuk! This is so atonal and tuneless. It grates on your
nerves!"
Jefferson Airplane - "You don't listen to these weirdo hippies, do you? You've
got to be stoned to appreciate this..."
Early Stones - "Can *you* understand what he's singing? (my mum). It all sounds
so *old*, badly recorded, etc."
Otis Redding - "Hmm, if you like this, then I'll have to lend you my Michael
Bolton LP".

Ok, I know I'm ratholing! I'm basically trying to say that it's not easy to 
turn someone on to a type of music that they've little or no previous
experience of. 

So what would you C&W diehards recommend as a starter kit?

Dom  

    >So what would you C&W diehards recommend as a starter kit?
    
    Country artists are still singles-oriented, and crank out two albums a
    year, so the best bets are actually the greatest hits packages. Some of
    the oldtimers have so many hits (Conway Twitty had something like sixty
    #1s!) that often you'll find multiple volumes of hits.
    
    Anyway, the guys to start with:
    
    The Oldtimers...
    
    Hank Williams (Sr.)		Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys
    
    Merle Haggard		Waylon Jennings
    
    George Jones		Johnny Cash
    
    Loretta Lynn		Kitty Wells
    
    Ernest Tubb			Buck Owens
    
    The Young Bucks...
    
    Emmylou Harris		Ricky Skaggs
    
    George Strait		Dwight Yoakam
    
    Rodney Crowell		Randy Travis
    
    Instrumental (hard to find)...
    
    Danny Gatton		Albert Lee
    
    Jimmy Bryant		Speedy West

re: Brian

>    Anyway, the guys to start with:

What? No Patsy Cline??? 

Along with Hank Sr., she's easily my favorite country artist...

alan

    Hey -- anyone remember that one-hit wonder band who did "lookin for the
    city"??  I *believe* their name was the Chuck Wagon Band or some such
    nonesense.  That song is great...it's a riot...and this band was slated
    for C&W stardom, until they discovered one thing -- the lead vocalist,
    who sounded like a cross between Patsy Cline and Ethel Mermon was a
    MAN!!  That's right folks.  Guess it was too much for the feabile minds
    of America to comprehend at that time ... the band was forced to split
    up.
    
    Decades later Culture Club did the flip-flop ... sounded like a man, 
    looked like a woman...they were a huge hit.  Oh well, I guess timing
    is everything in this biz! ;')

>    Decades later Culture Club did the flip-flop ... sounded like a man, 
>    looked like a woman..
    
    I donno, dude, it's pretty questionable to me whether Boy George ever
    sounded like a man.  Just heard his new song (theme from the movie "The
    Crying Game") on the radio this morning, and he sounds pretty feminine
    to me.
    
    Greg

    >it's pretty questionable to me whether Boy George ever sounded like a man.
    
    questionable? No way!
    
    

    You mean, like, there's no question that he *doesn't*.
    
    Does Cher sound like a woman ?
    
    That list in .22 (+Patsy Cline) is great. (You can count on Brian for
    these things.) 
    
    Does Roy Orbison count as C&W ?
    
    Paul

    For some unknown reason, the one tune that defines C & W for me is a
    song called "Satin Sheets".  
    
    The Fools, while making fun of C & W (and rock, too) are most excellent
    musicians.
    
    Carl

re: .28
    
>    In the country-rock category, don't forget Commander Cody and the Lost
>    Planet Airmen - surely you can recall 'Hotrod Lincoln'?
    
For the benefit of any Washington, DC Commander Cody fans out there:

Bill Kirchen, Commander Cody's lead guitar player, now lives in the DC
area (apparently his wife inherited a farm somewhere) and plays around
town as "Bill Kirchen and Too Much Fun".  Last I checked, he was playing
more or less weekly at a club in (Wheaton? Rockville? Bethesda? I forget)
called Tornado Alley.

-Hal

    Born and bred a New Englander, I find I can't "relate" to country
    music.
    
    For one, the "image" just seems outta place up here. Cowboy hats,
    pointy boots and rhinestones just don't happen (much) in NE, and 
    when they do, it always hits me as something between "wannabee" and
    parody, not part of the lifestyle.
    
    Brian mentioned the "real-life" subject matter. Might be true, but it's
    lost on me. Hard-drinkin', truck drivin', "I love my dog", my woman
    done me wrong, etc. WTF, this ain't me. (Ironically, I spent my 20's
    in an alcoholic haze, drove truck for a living [while playing in a
    glam-rock band. Now THERE's a disconnect!] and got stomped on by
    women more times than a bug.) Go figure. I lived it and STILL can't
    relate.
    
    Lack of exposure to it doesn't help. I suspect I hear the worst of
    country, the cross-over crap, and figure it's representative of the 
    lot. Probably not true, but happening anyhow. And the cutesy play-on-
    words titles drive me nuts. ("I Met Her On The CB Radio, But Her
    Wedding Ring Was Just A Citizen's Band")
    
    I've made a couple honest attempts to "connect" but it never happens.
    Bought a handfull of CD's; Sweethearts Of The Rodeo, Highway 101, etc.,
    tried listening to whatever passes for C&W radio up here, and it all
    just leaves me cold...
    
    Probably fun to play tho...
    
    Edd 

    RE a few back:
    Country swing fusion ?? I guess that qualifies as esoteric. Are there
    any country rappers, or country speed metal bands ??
    
    Paul

    Actually Hank Snow singing "I've Been Everywhere" probably qualifies as
    country rap, hey, he recorded it thirty years ago so I guess he was
    ahead of his time.  How about Red Sovine, is "Phantom 309" a rap tune?
    
    Country fusion: Steve Morse, Gary Burton
    
    Country speed metal:  does Hasil Adkins count?
    
    							Buck Wheat

    re: .21
    
>    And call me fussy if you
>like, but the sound of a pedal steel guitar just does not touch a nerve in me
>the way blues slide guitar does (not to mention a wailing harp!).
    
    I haven't heard much pedal steel playing, but try to find some of Buddy
    Emmons' work; he has played with Danny Gatton, among others.  It's
    steel like you've never heard it.
    
    Dave

    I'll take a good dobro (e.g. Jerry Douglas) over a pedal steel any day.
    Much more personality.

    Then again, I generally prefer acoustic to electric sounds.

    There's always Rusty Young (Neil's brother) in Poco. I heard he used to
    beat his pedal steel all over the stage much like Pete Townshend with
    his sixer. Maybe this was "Country Rock & Wreck".
    
    Paul

    For very cool pedal steel, check out "Sneaky Pete" w/ The Flying
    Burrito Bros. 
    
    /BK
    

re: .36

>    There's always Rusty Young (Neil's brother) in Poco. I heard he used to
>    beat his pedal steel all over the stage much like Pete Townshend with
>    his sixer. Maybe this was "Country Rock & Wreck".
    
He's not really Neil's brother, is he?  I've never heard that one before.
Doesn't look like Neil, either.

Rusty's a good player, but he showboats too much for my taste.

re: .37

"Sneaky Pete" Kleinow is one of my favorite steel players.  Personally,
my favorite work of his is the steel playing on Jackson Browne's second
album (I think it was called "For Everyman").  In fact, I think it's
one of the most well produced albums I've ever heard.  Ironically, there's
no producer credit given.  Also notable on that album was David Lindley's
wonderful guitar work (both acoustic and electric).

Alas, JB's gone steadily downhill since that album, and I don't much
care for him anymore.

-Hal

    
    > Doesn't look like Neil, either.
    
    He should certainly be grateful !
    
    I don't know for sure. I heard it from a friend who heard it from a
    friend.
    
    Come to think of it, they don't play much like each other either.
    
    Paul
    

    
    
    Hey, guys - country dudes have been rapping for decades:  ever heard of
    square dancing?
    
    

    RE: 38
    
    Good to hear there are other fans of "For Everyman". I quite agree
    that this is one the best produced albums ever. It also has a number
    of great guests helping out (Bonnie Raitt, David Crosby, JD Souther
    and, of course, Sneaky Pete). Check out "Redneck Friend" for some the
    slickest pedal-steel work!!! This album is also some of David Lindley's 
    best work ("These Days" and "The Times You've Come" are standouts!!)
    
    /Billy_K
    

re: .41

>    Good to hear there are other fans of "For Everyman". I quite agree
>    that this is one the best produced albums ever. It also has a number
>    of great guests helping out (Bonnie Raitt, David Crosby, JD Souther
>    and, of course, Sneaky Pete). Check out "Redneck Friend" for some the
>    slickest pedal-steel work!!! This album is also some of David Lindley's 
>    best work ("These Days" and "The Times You've Come" are standouts!!)
    
Actually, I believe that's David Lindley playing slide guitar on "Redneck
Friend", not pedal-steel.    

-Hal

    FWIW, I saw a band do a *blazing* cover of "Redneck Friend" several
    years back using Twin Reverb w/ext 2x12 cab, ES-335 & brass slide. It
    was *better* than the original !
    
    Paul 

    RE: -1
    
    I guess I stand corrected. Sneaky Pete appeared on "Our Lady of the
    Well" and "Take It Easy", not "Redneck Friend" ...
    
    /Billy_K
    

    Re; last few
    
    Actually that's *Jackson* playing the slide on "Redneck Friend", saw
    him do it in concert as a matter of fact while Lindley played rhythm. 
    The rest of the slide on the album is Lindley, though.
    
    						Brian

    RE: .22 (I think)
    
         A few more for the list,
    
    Brooks and Dunn
    Hal Ketchum
    Kentucky headhunters
    
         I like to consider this new country as opposed to C&W. Somehow,
    when you say country and western, people right away thing of the old
    stuff like hank snow, patsy cline, eddie arnold ect. Let the same
    person hear some of the faster rocked up stuff of today, and suddenly
    you got a new country fan.

    Any cowboy music lovers out there?  There was an Austin City Limits a
    few months ago that featured this sub-genre.  Riders in the Sky (from
    the hokey Sat am kid's show) appeared, amongst many others.  
    
    All the groups were 3-4-5 piece, no phony "strings" synth crap in the
    background, incredibly tight vocals.  
    
    That crossover stuff they play on the radd-eee-ooo bites the big one.
    
    Carl

>    few months ago that featured this sub-genre.  Riders in the Sky (from
>    the hokey Sat am kid's show) appeared, amongst many others.  

Hey, whaddya mean "kid's show"??  :^)

Bob

    You mean they let adults into this conference!!!???
    
    Carl

    >>You mean they let adults into this conference!!!???
    
    I don't know of any.......
    
    8*}

re: .45

>    Actually that's *Jackson* playing the slide on "Redneck Friend", saw
>    him do it in concert as a matter of fact while Lindley played rhythm. 
>    The rest of the slide on the album is Lindley, though.
    
Brian (or anybody):

Can you verify this from the album cover?  I don't deny that JB may have
played it live, but I'd swear I remember DL playing it on the album.
Unfortunately, I lost the album years ago.  It's one of the nasty side
effects of playing in bands...you lend an album to someone to learn a
song and you never see it again.  'course I've gained a few albums that
way as well... :-)

-Hal

    RE -1:
    Check around for my copy of "Goodbye To You" by Scandal, or either of
    the albums by The Rings. Those ones seem to have disappeared during my
    last band, & you're the first person ever to admit to having *gained*
    any that way ;-)
    
    Paul

    The notes on "For Everyman" say it's Lindley on slide ...
    
    /BK
    

    
    	This is about a year too late but I only just saw this request!
    From memory I believe it goes like this, & I reckon I'm the only guy in 
    the UK who could do this:-).....    

    ....Lemme here some Yee-Haas out there....
V.1
    My house burned down in a flash of thunder, 
    My wife ran off with a one legged plumber,
    My crops all failed when the river bed ran dry.
    My dog got squashed by a pick-up truck,
    My son ran away & got hooked on drugs
    My daughter's knocked up by the class of 85.

Ch.1
    People say that life is good, it don't seem good to me
    I'm stuck without a paddle & I'm headed up sh*t creek.
    People say that life is good, but I don't know why, 
    As far as I can tell life sucks & then you die.

V.2
    The Government dumps it's toxic waste 
    Right on top of my Mother's grave,
    A team of experts say it won't do her no harm.
    My sheep went crazy & killed my mule,
    I cut off my dick with a power tool...
    Fixing a hole where a meteor hit the barn.

Ch.2
    People say that life is good, but I just piss & moan,
    I got one foot on a bananna peel, the other in the twilight zone.
    People say that life is good, but I don't know why,
    As far as I can tell life sucks & then you die.

V.3
    I went to the store to buy some shells,
    The gun went off & blew the owner to hell,
    Now I'm sitting here in jail singing this song.
    One guy wants to cut me with a knife,
    Another guy wants me to be his wife...
    I wish they'd hang me before something really goes wrong.

Ch.3
    People say that life is good but all I feel is sad,
    When you have less than nothing, nothing makes you glad.
    People say that life is good, but I don't know why,
    As far as I can tell life sucks & then you die.


There is a key change of a half-step on each verse & a sort of bridge bit 
before v.3.