Conference napalm::guitar

    The footcontroller has a new/improved layout as compared to the Pro-21
    controller.
    
    Mike

    This thing (on paper) blows the doors off the ME-5 and for not much
    more money than an ME-5 is going for USED!
    
    It supposedly has dynamic delay time modulation "as specified and
    requested by Steve Morse".
    
    Anyone know exactly what that feature is?  
    
    	db

    Musician's Friend's sale price is $429.88.
    
    Shipping is about $10 ($16 for 2-day delivery).

    Re: .1
    
    Improved layout?  The buttons are bigger  8^)  8^)
    
    Wake me up when the next hottest new box comes along...
    
    						Brian
                                    My_distortion_box_is_27_years_old

    
    
    re .2
    
      Dynamic delay time modulation?. Yuk.     =8^]
    
     You can control the delay time with the foot pedal. No big deal.
    
    RichC
    

    Re: Delay Modulation
    
    According to the catalog, it allows you to vary the delay times as you
    play.
    
    Other features:
    
    20Hz-18kHz bandwidth
    20 bit CPU
    5 distortions
    compression
    noise gate
    7 band EQ
    speaker simulator
    lots of reverbs
    chorusing
    flanging
    stereo imaging
    multi-tap delay

    >  You can control the delay time with the foot pedal. No big deal.
    
    Even the GP-8 (now two generations old) could do that.
    
    I think it's something more than that - if it's what I think it is,
    the modulation comes from what you play, not the pedal.
    
    I'm more impressed by the dynamic effects on the Intellifex.  Offhand,
    I get the impression that any effect can be ducked under the input
    signal which is an everyday-use kind of feature - a nice feature that
    you might always have on.

    I rented one of these for a gig last night (the Boss SE-50 fell thru). 
    It supposedly is a GSP-21 shrunk into a foot controller (i.e., preamp,
    processor, and controller).  I'll enter more info later, but I'd have
    to say I was reasonably impressed!
    
    Mike

    Mikey, dood -
    
    When you reply, tell us about how you had the beast configured in your
    signal processing chain.  For example, did you use your rig's FX send
    and return or did you go guitar-->FX-->amp?
    
    Regards,
    Johnny Jupiter

Okay, here's more details.  I tried it between my guitar and amp, but didn't
like the way the KH's distortion that way.  It sounded better in the effects
loop and that's how I used it live.

I didn't have a lot of time to program it so I picked out 5 of my favorite
factory presets and used those.  I was easily able to assign those presets to
switches 1-5 on the bottom row.  Admittedly, I'm a technowienee by trade, but I
still thought it was easy.

There were no volume mismatches in the presets like some units, and it has knobs
to control the input and output levels.

Disadvantages (to me, that aren't apparent from the ads):

- Silence or signal interuption while switching presets.
- Only 1.5 secs of delay.  I'd like at least 2 secs.
- The distortion was OK and useable, but if they made a unit without it, I'd
  buy it today.
- no pitch shift

Advantages (ditto):

- no wall bug
- built-in foot controller.  This was the deciding factor to me.  If I rented
  the Boss SE-50, it would've cost me more for a controller.
- easy to program
- headphone output
- direct preset access.  I assigned presets to specific switches (which is also
  great), but there is a direct mode as well.  pressing the "program number"
  switch and the numbered switches of the preset you want brings it up
  automagically.
- One of my favs: real time control of effects in a preset.  The top row of
  switches is labeled with an effect as well as a number.  Whenever a preset is
  active, the LEDs on those switches light up telling you which are active.
  You can add to and/or subtract from your fav effects for that preset!!
  BYPASS is the bottom right switch.
- full bandwidth with CD-quality SNR.  Effects were VERY clean.
- it has a 10 footswitch mode where presets can be assigned to all 10 switches
  instead of just 5 like I did.

Other stuff it has that I didn't get a chance to try out:

- 4 different speaker simulators:
    1. Full Stack  2. Half Stack  3. 10" Combo  4. 12" Combo
- programmable effects loop
- full MIDI, including continuous control, SYSEX, and device mapping
- most of the effects you need, 10 at a time.
   
The list of effects are (all params are editable):

Compression, Distortion, 7 band programmable EQ, Noise Gate, Chorus, Flange,
Delay (0-.75ms), 4-tap delay (each of the 4 go from 0-1.5secs) plus this one has
a delay time feed with the same time range, Modulation delay (0-.75ms), Ultimate
Reverb, 2 "normal" digital reverbs, Reverse Reverb, Gated Reverb, and a
Digital Mixer.

I also have the list of algorithms that are available for editing if anyone is
curious.  I still plan on trying out the Boss SE-50 though.  It's delays are
longer and has pitch shifting.  The drawback there is a lack of a footswitch 
    as versatile as the RP-1's.

Mike

    I forgot the best thing of all:
    
    You can get one of these and still not be a rack-puke! ;-)
    
    Mike

    I have a catalog that describe it as having "Delay Modulation, which
    lets you actually vary the delay times as you play."
    
    Exactly what is that and how do you vary the delay time?

... And what's the price of this pup?

-- Sam

    drool!

    
    re: .12 (db)
    
    Delay Modulation is the same thing as the modulation control on
    your delay/chorus/flange-type units, no?
    
    On my ancient DOD delay unit, there is a place to plug in a foot
    pedal (variable resistor) in the back - so you can actually vary
    the delay time while you play.  It's kinda weird.  You can do some
    low-rent pitch bending with it.
    
    I don't know it the unit in question functions this way or not....
    
    
    guy 

    Guy is correct, you modulate the pitch of the echoes after the original
    signal.  Editable params for this are: 
    
    - delay time 0-.75ms
    - delay rolloff 0-5 (gradually rolls off upper freqs in later echoes)
    - delay diffusion 1-10 (determines how much later echoes "smear" or 
            diffuse. Similar to the diffusion of later echoes in an old tape 
            delay)
    - LFO sweep rate 0-5hz (modulation speed)
    - LFO sweep depth 0-6.35ms (depth of pitch)
    - LFO waveform sawtooth-sine-log (changes delay time in a regular 
          repeating wave)
    - delay feedback 0-99% (adjusts number of repeats)
    
    Switch #9 on the front is labeled "Modulation" too so you can add/subtract 
    it in real time.
    
    The locals are asking $399 for this without any negotiations.  
    
    The housing is all steel, but the switches themselves are some sort of
    high impact plastic.
    
    Here's the layout:
    
     RP1 logo      LCD/numeric LED/db  preset  param   utility  output input
                       display         keypad  keypad  keypad   dial   dial
    
    6 Compression  7 Distortion  8 Delay  9 Modulation 0 Reverb  Program/Set#
    -------------  ------------  -------  ------------ --------  ------------
    
    1 Patch1       2 Patch2      3 Patch3 4 Patch4     5 Patch5  Bypass
    -------------  ------------  -------  ------------ --------  -----------

Does it have a headphone Jack? Direct out?

    you weren't paying attention ;-)

    I'm not sure the "delay modulation" effect is quite what people are
    thinking it is.  It's similar to a chorus or a flange or a comb filter, 
    especially in that you'll notice it is driven by an LFO.  This is not 
    an effect where you can have a pedal that varies a straight "echo" delay 
    from .1 to 1 seconds, for instance.
    
    However, if this thing is actually a GSP-21 repackaged, which it sounds
    like to me from everything that's been said so far, then you _can_ have
    a pedal-driven variable delay.  The way this would be done is via an
    external Midi continuous controller.  If you have one, you can link it
    to virtually any parameter of any effect, including the delay time
    parameter of the digital delay effect.

    Mikey-
    
    Does the unit you test drove have an FX loop built into it? With a
    GSP-21 you can hang an FX unit off it and select it as part of the
    patches...I usually have a Yamaha <mumble>-500 signal processor that
    a friend lent to me piggybacked off my GSP-21.
    
    Any problems with feedback?  I found when running the GSP-21 from the
    FX loop of my amp that if I had a lot of gain selected in a patch that
    I'd get this ~800 Hz feedback that was *danged* annoying.  I really had
    to cut the gain way back on the GSP-21.
    
    Like you, I found it was much quieter to run the GSP thru the FX loop
    of my amp, rather than guitar-->GSP-21-->amp.  
    
    How does the floor unit get its power? 
    
    Regards,
    Johnny Jupiter

>    Does the unit you test drove have an FX loop built into it? With a
>    GSP-21 you can hang an FX unit off it and select it as part of the
>    patches...I usually have a Yamaha <mumble>-500 signal processor that
>    a friend lent to me piggybacked off my GSP-21.
    
    Yup, same scenario with this unit.
    
>    Any problems with feedback?  I found when running the GSP-21 from the
    
    Not at all.  I had it cranked more than once too ;-)
    
>    How does the floor unit get its power? 
    
    Not sure, but it must be internally.  No wall bug, straight AC power
    cord.
    
    Mike

    I had to enter some stuff from the RP-1 manual for somebody so I
    thought I would post it here as well.
    
There are 11 altogether.  All algorithms include all analog effects
(compression, distortion, EQ, noise gate, speaker simulator,etc.), so when you
select an algorithm, what you're really doing is selecting which types of
DIGITAL effects you want included in the patch.

Some of the not so obvious abbreviations are: L = Level Control, SS =
Speaker Simulator, Mx = Digital Mixer, 4TD = 4-tap delay, ModDly = Modulation
Delay.

1  Cmp + Dst + EQ + NG + L + SS
2  Cmp + Dst + EQ + NG + L + UltRv + SS
3  Cmp + Dst + EQ + NG + L + GtRv + Mx + SS
4  Cmp + Dst + EQ + NG + L + RvRv + Mx + SS
5  Cmp + Dst + EQ + NG + L + Ch + D + Rv1 + Mx + SS
6  Cmp + Dst + EQ + NG + L + Fl + D + Rv1 + Mx + SS
7  Cmp + Dst + EQ + NG + L + Ch + D + Rv1 + Mx + SS (long reverb)
8  Cmp + Dst + EQ + NG + L + Fl + D + Rv1 + Mx + SS   "      "
9  Cmp + Dst + EQ + NG + L + Ch + 4TD + Mx + SS     
10 Cmp + Dst + EQ + NG + L + Fl + 4TD + Mx + SS        
11 Cmp + Dst + EQ + NG + L + ModDly + Mx + SS       

Any of the effects and the parameters associated with them in an algorithm may
be turned on, off, adjusted, tweaked, twiddled, or otherwise noodled around with
in any possible combination (within the limits of the algorithm).

    Seeing as how this thing is basically a repackaged GSP-21, wouldn't the
    "L" be the external effects loop?
    
    								Marc

    The manual says Level Control, but it has an external effects loop as
    well.
    
    Mike

I always hated remembering DIGItechs "codes".  Ick!!

This thing does sound like a repackaged 21 doesn't it?

jc

    Like I told some others offline, if they came out with a successor that
    has some of the Boss SE-50 effects (2 secs delay, pitch shift, vocoder,
    etc.) I'd buy it in a flash.  
    
    Mike

I thought you "just said no" to rack FX ??

Mike-face facts - your a fickle dood.
:)

    It's not a rack unit so HA!

It may sit ON THE FLOOR, but it's DEFINATELY a rack unit...
Can you say GSP21 in a different box ??
jc

    Yeah, Mikeface!  You're fickle, just admit it!
    
    gh

Opppss - COOPOKEY is alive and well.

Mike-Face.  I like that!!
:)

    No it ain't.  There are 0 mounting brackets on it.  It's a floor unit.

    Thats just the box though - it's most definately the same unit as
    a GSP21 (basically).  :)
    
    Pose-knows...
    

    so they improved it!

Well, I spent an hour dinking with one at Rice one day...  They didn't improve 
it much - sounded just like my pals GSP21pro.  :)

jc

    I think Mikey was talkin about the packaging...

    the packaging and price makes it so convenient and worthwhile. 
    Afterall, it's over $200 less than the GSP21 and more convenient.
    
    Mike

    
      If the RP-1 is that much like the GSP-21, then it's not gonna be the 
    greatest thing to put into an effects loop. It will work better as its
    own preamp. At least that was my experience with the GSP-21. I still
    prefer a strictly digital processor (DSP-256XL/Quadraverb/Multiverb)
    inserted into an effects loop and let the amp do all the tone shaping.
    
    							_B()()M-

  ======================================     
 |[  RP-1  [____]|[  1] -<>-<>- 0  0   ]|   
  | 6     7     8     9     0          |
  | ====  ====  ====  ====  ====  ==== |         
  | 1     2     3     4     5          |
  | ====  ====  ====  ====  ====  ==== |     
  |____________________________________|           

    Thief !!

    Well, the first mailing list I've heard of so far for a single FX unit!
    
From: bernards@ECN.NL (Marcel Bernards)
Newsgroups: alt.guitar,rec.music.makers.guitar
Date: 8 Feb 1994 11:36:02 +0100
Organization: Netherlands Energy Research Foundation (ECN)
 
Ok guys !
I've got everything up and running now, but it's still
a bit empty, but soon there will be fun stuff for all
I started MIDI hacking yesterday, and soon some friends
will have stuff ready too.
 
The RP-1 Anon FTP site ia available at ecnsun.ecn.nl:/pub/RP-1
 
I also opened a mailing list called <RP-1-L@ECN.NL>
 
You can subscribe by sending a mail to MAILSERV@ECN.NL
This is the message you get back from MAILSERV:
 
------8<--------SnipSnip-------
Welcome the Digitech RP-1 owners mailing list.
----------------------------------------------
 
This list is used for discussions, submitting patches and questions 
about the Digitech RP-1 (tm) Guitar Effect pedal.
 
You can subscribe to this list by sending an E-mail:
---
To: mailserv@ecn.nl
Subject: <DontCare>
 
subscribe RP-1-L
---
 
You can unsubscribe with:
---
To: mailserv@ecn.nl
Subject: <DontCare>
 
unsubscribe RP-1-L
---
 
Submissions to the list can be done with:
---
To: RP-1-L@ecn.nl
Subject: <Whatever you like to fill in>
 
<Your Message>
---
 
There is also an anonymous FTP directory at ECN on
ftp.ecn.nl:/pub/RP-1 [130.112.1.1]
There is an ASCII exchange format proposal there called 'patchfmt.txt'
If you send a patch to the list, I advice you to use it for compatibility
for future patch programs & converters to appear. Also suggestions
for enhancements of this format are welcome. 
 
Note: Nothing of this stuff has anything to do with the mission of ECN
nor do I have a commercial interest in DOD-Digitech :-)
 
If you have further questions or suggestions, please feel free to 
mail to me directly <bernards@ECN.NL>
 
For mail problems you may contact the <postmaster@ecn.nl> 
 
Happy Patching :-)
 
Marcel Bernards
ECN - Netherlands Energy Research Foundation
Computer & Network Facilitity Management Dept.
Telefoon +31 2246 4579   Fax:   +31 2246 1864
E-Mail: Bernards@ECN.NL
-----8<------SnipSnip---------

    Anyone know what's in the new RP-10 that wasn't in the RP-1 besides the
    S-DISC implementation?
    
    thanks,
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    Perhaps they asked Steve Morse to contribute more effects designs like
    the ones he did for the RP-1.
    
    	db

    You mean like more than 1?  All he contributed in the first one is a
    ducking delay.

    Yes, in the RP-10 he contributed a "emotion gate".
    
    It's gotten mixed reviews though.  Satriani tried using the emotion
    gate and said that he couldn't tell the difference.
    
    And then there's "feeling ducking": the more notes you play, the more 
    the feeling is attenuated.   Some say this is a superfluous feature.
    
    	db
    

    RE: 2454.45
    >> Yes, in the RP-10 he contributed a "emotion gate".
    
    Must have been for all of his blues tunes I guess!
    
     
    >> Satriani tried using the emotion gate and said that he couldn't 
    >> tell the difference.
    
    Just goes to show ya...  Satch ain't no blues player!
    
    
    Dawg would be proud!   ;^)
    
    		Rock on (in blue),
    				   Fred

>    Yes, in the RP-10 he contributed a "emotion gate".
    
    Morse has been playing through one of those for many years now. 
    Clamped down tight too.

    HA!  You actually had me going for the first line.

    RP-10 Currently $499 at Wurly's.
    
    I've been thinking of upgrading my Boss ME-5 for this S-Disc thing.
    
    Any comments?
    
    Larry

    
    I've played around a little with the RP-10. Its a lotta stuff in a
    floor mounted pedal, I think alot more than the competition. When you
    try it out, go to the "mix" section of each patch and "dial" back the
    wet/dry mix to more "dry". Most of the patches are mixed too "wet for
    my taste. 
    I have a GSP2101 and the RP-10 has most of the functionality of the
    2101 with the exception of the tube stage. Digitech has some pretty
    good solid state distortion. I especially like the "Grunge" distortion
    setting. I havn't been able to use the "Whammy" pedal functions yet
    because I have'nt gotten around to ordering the foot pedal, but I have
    used a friends Whammy pedal and it was a load-O-fun. 
    I believe the RP-10 is a good value for someone wanting a pedal based
    multi-processor.
    
    CERASO
    

    Thanks for the info.
    
    A took a trip to Wurly's Nashua store this pasy weekend. That store 
    doesn't carry Digitech/DOD stuff,  so I didn't get to try one out.
    
    I did try a 2101 w/foot 6-months ago at Daddy's. Steve Vai in a box!
    Sounded awesome through the Marshall rackamp.
    I was hoping the RP-10 was as good. 
    
    Perhaps I should wait for a used 2101 w/foot though, I really need a
    good tube preamp sound too.
    
    Larry
    

    
    Yeah the 2101 is an amazing box for the money. you gotta spend a lot
    more to get all the features of the 2101 and the decent sound quality.
    
    Digitech does make a cheaper unit with  a single 12AX7 toob stage. Its
    called the Valve FX. Looking at the ad list of features it has:
    
    12AX7 tube stage
    2 tube and 3 s.s. dist.
    programmable cabinet emulation
    4-band parametric eq
    programmable compressor
    full badnwitdth effect 20-20khz
    24-bit signal path, 48bit internal
    full MIDI
    128 factory presets 128 user memory
    multi-funtion foot controller optional
    S-DISC chip
    
    Effects include:
    
    pitch shifting
    flanging
    phasing
    chorusing
    multi reverbs
    Whammy
    
    It comes with a cheesy (IMO) chrome plated face plate. It occupies 1U
    space. The ad does'nt mention the IN/OUTPUT configuration. This unit
    seems to have most of the features of the RP floor unit (and most of
    the 2101, though not as flexible/programmable) with the addition of the
    tube stage. Dont know the $$$. Might be worth checking out though. 
     As I previously stated, I'm very happy with the 2101 and I don't think
    you could go wrong with it if you could find one used.
    
    CERASO