Conference napalm::guitar

    I just got off the phone with Mesa Boogie. Heres some info on their
    sus-4 racks.
    
    	The salesman says they used to be 3/4" thick, but they cut them
    down to 1/2" to reduce the weight. They offer 4 and 8 space racks
    in 18.5" depth, or 22.5" depth. Anything over 8 spaces are 22.5"
    deep, but they will make up larger racks in 18.5" depth by special
    order (for the same price). They recommend the deeper racks as they
    stack better. Wheels are a $90.00 option. Rear rails are available as
    an option.  A 10-space rack (Road-ready trim) is $245, and 12-space
    is $255.  These prices are really quite reasonable when you compare 
    them to Tour 1/4" racks, which are about the same price, but nowhere
    near as rugged. 
    
	Next I want to check out the latest racks from Peavey. I saw one
    in Daddy's that was incredibly rugged, but also very deep (like 24").
    
    	What's the matter, no ones in a rack-attack mood this morning ??
    
    Mark

    I honestly think racks are one of the most over-priced items in a
    musicians equipment list. Easily priced 2X what they could be priced.
    
    I bought my deep 8 space Calzone for $100, and being the cheapskate
    that I am, thought even that was expensive. But whacha gonna do???
    Can't haul all that stuff loose....
    
    Edd

    Every piece of equipment I have purchased in the last 5 years has been
    overpriced. Racks are right up there in % mark-up. In all fairness
    to the manufacturers, though, a lot goes into making a "good quality"
    rack. The home-made rack I built took me about 12 hours of labor to
    build. The hardware I used added up as follows:
    
    	Ernie Ball pull-out casters 	$20.00/set
    	Sessions recessed handles	$15.00/set 
        vinyl covering			$20.00
    	Chrome corners			$16.00
    					----------
    					$71.00
    
    Fortunatly, I got the rack rail from an old scrapped rack at work,
    otherwise I'd be looking at another $20.00 for rail. Road racks also 
    have heavy extruded aluminum edging, turn-buckles, covers, etc. all 
    of which adds to the cost. My rack is listed in the for-sale note for 
    $75.00  Maybe I'm asking too little for it! I just didn't think people 
    would want to spend a lot of money for a home-made rack.
    
    If you consider how much we spend on rack-mount processors, I feel 
    it's worth the money to protect it with a good rugged rack. If
    your' equipment is going to be handled by anyone but you, you want to
    have it in a flight case. I personally have had mishaps myself. I once
    dropped an Ampeg B22X amp down a flight of cellar stairs, while trying
    to negotiate a bulkhead door. Amazingly, the amp survived, but got
    a few nicks, scratches, and a cracked rocker switch.
    
    Over the years, I have bought and sold tons of equipment. These days, 
    when I buy a new piece of gear, I would prefer to pay a little more,
    and get exactly what I want, and have something worth keeping forever.
    If I settle for less than I want, it ends up for sale in no time.
    
    Mark
    

      I have the worlds ONLY genuine Kitty Hawk rack. It's a gutted
    1 X 12 speaker cab that was modified to accept rack rails that I
    bought. I put the extra speaker in my M1 exotic wood combo that
    I bought empty and added the M1 chassis. A little work but I got
    some real functional gear at a great price. And the KH rack matches
    my speaker cab to a "T".
      As far as reasonable priced racks and cases, I just got a custom
    made Unitec case to move my KH rack in. It has a black Ozite covering,
    metal corners, recessed handles, a removable top, and casters 
    (I love wheels on heavy gear). AND my foot controller fits in the
    case with the rack. The price was $190 and it only took two weeks
    on a custom order! Not bad at all.
    
    							---/boom/---
    

	Ok I'll bite.... I been using an 8 space "Roadie" Rack and here
are some of my comments/experiances after a few months of moving,for non
ATs products. such as an Anvil Forge II,Roadie etc... Some of these
rules are probably givens to most of you.....

Rick's rules for racks...

1.	Don't skimp on cost and quality(its a pay me now or later deal)
2.	Get butterfly hasp's anything else doesn't take abuse
3.	Recessed hardware!
4.	Make sure the road edges of the rack cover the whole edge front to
	back and run's under the steel corners.

5.	Distribute weight between a couple of racks rather than an all in 
	one. 8 spaces and larger get casters and make sure they are part of 
	the design and not just an add on feature.

6.	Look at the quality of the rivet's to make sure they are adequately
	supported on the inside of the rack. 

7.	Have lot's of sober friends who will give you a hand carrying you
	racks......:^)


	The Mesa Sus4 system looks impressive,but I have not looked it over
with detail,I might get a chance this week.....The first one I saw several
months ago was real bulky. I saw another the other day on wheels.... seemed
to be only 6 spaces....
	Also while were on the subject what have people found for stands to
put under your rack which can be folded up like a keyboard stand? 
    
						Rick
    

    RE: stands for racks...
    
    	In the "It's New" Column of the July Guitar Player, there is an
    	angle speaker stand.  "...tilts a speaker or combo amp to
    	a 60-degree angle...An attachable stand for supporting other gear
    	is also available..."
    
    	The picture shows a speaker cab and small rack mounted on one of
    	these devils.  Looks like just what I need.
    
    	Address is...
    
    	Angle Stand
    	2160 Thousand Oaks, #1211
    	San Antonio, TX 78232
    
    	joe.

    	I saw that in the July GP,which is kinda what I'm lookin
    for,but the top half didn't look that sturdy. I considered
    one of those tray holders they use at a restaurant too... I've
    been draggin a stool around for it,but it's bulkie. Anyone else
    using similiar stands?
    
    							Rick

    Milk crates...

    
    The Quik Lok stands look kind of like restaurant tray stands but are
    built for MI applications.  I've seen models that were intended for
    amps/speakers rather than keyboards.  The scissor design knocks down
    quickly.
    
    Invisible also makes amp stands that might be suitable.
    
    							Brian

re: milk crates

In the fine state of Maine possession of a Diary's milk crate is punishable
with a $100 fine EACH

a word to the wise , the state police hand out tickets for these along with
whatever else you might have gotten stopped for...

dbii

ps: pun intended

    
    Re: milk crates, .10
    
    You serious?  I've still got a couple I swiped from a store in Rangely,
    ME....oh no, they may have a warrant out on me...
    
    What if it's not a Maine dairy????   
    
    What about Rackcrates????   8^)  8^)  8^)

    Are they rack crates any good? They look like junk, but so does most of
    my stuff.

    
    Rackcrates may be a good deal if you have only a few things to rack (I
    think they are only four spaces high) and are not doing a lot of
    traveling.  
    
    They don't offer anywhere near the protection of a good ATS rack.  But
    for organizing stuff at home, for example, they are a cheap
    alternative.  The open back and sides offer better ventilation, which
    is a plus.
    
    						Brian

I be serious. The legislature passed that law last session. Seems several
diaries (sp??) couldn't ship milk due to losses/shortages of crates, and the 
bill passed overwealmingly.

I got rid of mine, they had a grace period. With regard to out of state dairies
I dunno, but for the sake of a few bucks I got some at rich's and saved the
possible aggrivation.

dbii

    re: milk crates
    
    Regardless of whatever repercussions there may be to having real milk
    crates around, there are many companies that sell similar items and
    they're pretty cheap.  You can get them at K-mart for about $3.50 each
    (in nice floresent colors, to boot).
    
    re: RackCrates
    
    I have one.  It's an 8 space (the only size I'm aware that they made). 
    It's reasonably sturdy with equipment in it and it's nice and light. 
    However, I can't use it at all for my stuff because it's not deep
    enough.  I'd have to prewire ALL my equipment using 90 degree plugs for
    it to fit in the thing.  Then there's no pulling wires and moving
    things around.  It's got this one slot in the back that's about 3" in
    height that doesn't even cover the whole width that's pretty much
    useless for access to the gear inside.  I'd have to hack up the back of
    it to get enough access to use my stuff.  Pretty useless IMO.  I use it
    to sit stuff on (works pretty good for that).
    
    Greg                                         

    
	There are tons of accessories available for racks which have no
    effect on your sound whatsoever. They are mainly convenience options.
    I thought I would list a few of these accessories, and a rough price
    (based on the "American Music Supply" catalog). Lower prices are
    available if you shop around, or buy used.

    1. Power controllers. These are basically fancy power strips which
    provide EMI/RFI filtering. AMS lists three models from "Aris". Similar 
    units are also available from Furman, Juice Goose, etc.

	PD10 - Bare bones unit with 5 double outlets, and an on/off switch.

	PD10L - Same as PD10, with addition of light tubes with on/off
	switch for the lights. The light tubes pull out about 3" and can
	be swiveled to aim the light where you need it.

	PD10LV - Same as PD10L with (LED) digital volt meter to monitor the
	house line voltage. 

	I'd like to see someone come out with one that includes a clock
    function ! Actually the dvm is kind of a waste. A clock would be more
    useful. 

    2. Rack-mount tuners. I know of two units. One is the Korg DT1 Pro, and the 
    other is a Peterson R450. The korg is a 1 space unit which can accomidate 
    upto 6 instruments. It has a large analog-style meter like an oversized 
    TU12 tuner. Like a Boss TU12, they autorange for hands-off tuning. These 
    generally sell for ~$250.00. The peterson R450 tuner is suppossedly a new 
    version of an old industry standard, and sells for about $350. This has 
    a strobe that provides very accurate tuning, but It seems like it must be 
    a little trickier to use. It occupies 2 or 3 rack spaces.

    3. Rack drawers. I know of two types. 4-Designs offers a rack drawer
    for about $50.00. The top of this drawer is not covered, so the contents
    could concievably float around inside the rack during transport. It is
    constructed out of particle board. I bought one of these and returned it 
    the minute I took it out of the box. Another company makes a rack drawer
    which is constructed of 16 gauge steel. It has a completely enclosed 
    top, and a latching mechanism to keep the drawer shut. These drawers are
    available with an optional lock, but the locking type units are way 
    overpriced (IMHO). Prices on the steel drawers are as follows:

	2 space		$ 95.00		2 space w/lock	$125.00
	3 space		$109.00		3 space w/lock	$139.00		
	4 space		$125.00		4 space w/lock  $155.00 
	
	To me, paying $30.00 for a crude lock mechanism is ridiculous. If
    someone wants the contents of the drawer bad enough, they will just
    steal the whole rack.

    4. Rack shelf - This is basically a shelf with rack-ears for placing
    non-rack-mountable equipment in a rack. They are available in 1 space and
    2 space units priced at $39.00 and $45.00 respectively. They recommend
    using chalk under the feet of the equipment you place on these shelves
    to keep it from sliding around.

    5. Sliding shelf - Slides out for easy access to the top of the equipment.
    $98.00

    6. Accessory panels - Available accessory panels range in styles from
    plain flat blanks to vented panels, to security covers, to fan panels.
    There are also half blanks, for use with equipment that only fills
    1/2 rack space. 

    7. Rack Vault - similar to a rack drawer. Has a door which folds down,
    with a chain stop. The unit in the AMS catalog has a latch mechanism with
    keyed lock, and sells for $69.95. The rack vault occupies 4 spaces (7").
    This actually sounds like a better deal than a locking rack drawer.
    
    8. Casters - A must for anything over 50 lb. The standard type casters 
    generally feature 3" wheels. The heavy duty type have 3.5" wheels. I
    personally like pull-out casters like the ones that Fender uses on most
    of their amps. I believe these are sold by Ernie Ball, or Jim Dunlop.
   
    9. CD and DAT shelves. AMS lists these in their catalog. They appear to
    hold about 36 CD's, or about 30 DAT tapes. They must occupy about 3-4
    rack spaces. Too bad they don't offer a rack-mount cassette shelf.
    These units are ~$100.00 each.

    10. Patch bays - There are two types of patch bays. The old standard
    patch bays feature jacks on the front and rear to allow you to manually
    patch equipment together. The newer units are electronically controlled
    via "midi". The older type patch bays are available with 1/4" jacks, 
    RCA phono jacks, Canon XLR jacks, or any combination thereof. For instance
    there are patch bays with 1/4" on the front - RCA on the back. Other
    bays have 16 1/4" - 1/4" and 16 RCA's - RCA's. Patch bays can be con-
    figured several differant ways. Usually they are made up of modules which
    have two jacks on the front and two on the back. They usually come through
    normaled, which means that the signal gets plugged into the back, jumps
    to the front, down and out the back. This allows you to insert efx,
    because as soon as you plug a connector into the top front jack, the
    normal is broken. I have a Tascam Patch bay at home which is okay, but
    in order to change the configuration, you have to take it all apart and
    turn the modules around. If you want the top and bottom rows to be 
    shorted all the time, you have to solder a wire across two terminals.
    Since I bought my Tascam patch bay, I have seen another unit which has
    a switch on the front panel for each row of jacks. The switch allows
    you to select normalled, non-normalled, or shorted. This appears to 
    be the best type of manual patch bay. I won't go into midi-patch bays.
    I'll leave them for the midi experts to explain in another note.

   
    Miscellaneous:

    Rack rail - I know of three differant types of rack rails. The old type
    has (non-threaded) holes drilled in it and will accept any size screw
    upto 1/4" in diameter. The second type is drilled and tapped. The third
    type is what Mesa Boodie uses on their Sus-4 racks. This type has slotted
    rails in which the fastening nuts can slide up and down into any position
    This suppossedly is the easiest rail to work with as far as installing
    equipment. I have seen some people make rack rails out of wood. The
    nice thing about mounting equipment to wood is that the chassis are
    electrically isolated from each other. This helps prevent ground loops.
    Another way of isolating equipment is to use nylon bushings.
       
    Rack-mountable speakers - Seems like a great idea. Many speaker manufac-
    turers now offer rack-mount speaker enclosures. The fact is they take up
    lot's of rack space, they weight the rack down, and are difficult to
    position for best dispersion.

    Stands - A few people have asked about stands. I wouldn't trust my racks
    on any stands. If I needed to prop them up, I would either use milk-crates,
    or heres a better idea... Most gigs take place in halls or clubs that
    serve beer. Ask the bartender if you can borrow some empty beer cases.
    The kind made for bar bottles are quite rugged. Chances are, they'll 
    give you all you want. It saves on the amount of stuff you have to haul.
    Just make sure the cases are empty, because otherwise the glass bottles
    will rattle.
    
    

    gee thanks Mark,now I know what I can't afford :^) I think I'll
    build my own drawer for my rack as I looked at one at Daddy's for 
    $125 :^(  I've picked up 2 vented panels there for $12 each....but
    if I shopped around I probably could have bought them at an electronic
    supply for cheaper.....the price for convience......
    
    							Rick
    

    I have a 4 space and a 6 space...  Both Hybrid (manufacturer)...Both
    inexpensive and relatively sturdy.  Middle of the road for $65-$120.
    
    BTW - Mine have removable covers, steel rails, skids and corners and
    are covered with Ozite.
    
    jc

    How does one acquire an American Music Supply catalog?

	or call

	1-800-458-4076

	tell 'em Charlie sent 'ya, yeah.

	I just got a 14-space "Roadie" rack from my cousin last weekend. He 
    refused to take any money for it. I guess I owe him a big favor. Now I 
    have this 14-space Roadie rack, a 14-space home-made rack, and a 3-space 
    Tour rack (for my power amp). Being the fussy son-of-a-gun that I am, I 
    am still not satisfied with my racks. I want to replace both 14-space 
    racks with Mesa Boogie Sus-4 12-space racks.
    
    	Daddy's Junky Music in Shrewsbury just recieved a new Mesa-Boogie 
    sus-4 rack enclosure. The one they have on display is an 8-space unit with 
    optional casters. They are asking ~350.00 for it. I have made a firm 
    decision to replace the 2 racks I am currently using with SUS-4's but I 
    will most likely buy them direct from Mesa Boogie. I showed the saleman
    a current Mesa Boogie price list, and he would not honor the list prices. 
    He claims the shipping costs drive up the final cost to customers. I agree,
    but the shipping should not be adding $60.00 to the cost of each rack. 
    This is what their price amounts to. He says that Daddys probably has 12
    space racks in the chain, but they buy all of their racks with casters. 
    I don't want the casters for 2 reasons. First of all, $100.00 for a set 
    of casters is pretty steep, and second of all, the wheels make it tough to 
    stack the racks, since they are not removable. I am planning to buy the 
    racks without casters, and possibly add Earnie Ball removable casters to 
    each rack (at a cost of $25.00/set). I am considering buying one of the 
    racks with an optional 12" rear rail. This would allow me to add a rack
    mount fan panel with 1 or 2 muffin fans in the future.
    
    Don't be surprised if you see a couple of 14-space racks show up in the
    for sale note in the near future.
    
    Mark
    

    RE: .4 & .18
    
    Where can I get more info on these Unitec and Hybrid racks?  Are they
    sold thru mailorder houses?
    
    Mike

    Their sold thru Coops' house... I gotta 4 space and a 6 space...
    
    Shall we talk ?  Their both Hybrids.
    
    jc

    How about an 8 space?
    
    Mike

    I got an eight space, but it's stuffed and in use...
    
    jc

    so where did I get info on Unitec and Hybrid 8 space racks?  I've never
    seen them around here.
    
    Mike

    
    How much for the 4 space, dude?
    
    J.

    It may have been mentioned in this topic earlier, but ...
    
    What size screw/bolt do standard racks accept ?  My local music store
    says it's a 10/32 ... sound right to you guys ?
    
    Scary (who's rack came in today sans screws ...)

    Yep, the screws are 10/32 (10 being the size and 32 being the thread
    pattern).  They're kind of hard to find, your average hardware store
    may not have them.  
    
    I found some little hex head 10/32 cap screws at a hardware store
    though and that's what I use in my rack.  They're kind of a pain since
    the shortest length they had was 1in and that's a lot of screwing to
    get 'em out.  1/4 of thread length would probably be long enough, but
    you might have to get 1/2 inch ones to get that much depending on the
    style.
    
    Be kind of careful to get the right size.  I went looking for some that
    would fit and by trial and error thought they were this wierd metric
    size/thread that kind of fit in there (really stiff though) and I had
    to retap my holes when I finally found out and got the right size.
    
    Greg

    You can find a fastener supplier in the yellow pages; he'll have 
    what you need. I use button head 10/32's, which have a tiny internal
    hex, rather than a screwdriver slot.  They're also black oxide finished,
    so they blend well with the hardware beign attached, IMHO.  Also, I'd
    suggest you locate some black nylon washers to protect the finish of
    your rack mount gear.
    
    Regards,
    John

    I second the nylon washers...Especially if you pull stuff out/put stuff
    in a lot...  No need to scar up your stuff.
    
    jc

    My GP-8 and Tube Driver are already pretty battle scarred, but the DSP
    looks like it's straight outta da box, and the Mosvalve hasn't even
    been picked up yet.  I can hit a fastener joint this weekend ... thanks
    for the info !
    
    Scary (who'll be glad to retire the old rack ... ugh !)  

    
    	Any hardware store worth a doo-doo should have 10/32's.  Jerry,
    	how many do ya need?  I have a box of 'em at home.  I'll bring 
    	'em in tomorrow in case you need some temporaries till you 
    	find the sexy ones.  Mine are the zinc, round headed types.
    	Working class screws ;^).   
    
    	-Mr Kitty Wrench  

    Blue collar screws ... wagagga .....  8^)
    
    Scary (who wants all his stuff nice and pretty ...)

    I'd highly suggest using those real wide only-slightly-rounded-head
    screws.  They not only look good but perhaps provide better support.
    
    Scary, Welcome to the ranks on the MIDI RACK PUKES !
    
    jc

    Sheeeesh, Scary turns MIDI RACK PUKE!!!
    
    I always pictured Scary to be a "plug into a Twin and crank it"
    kinda guy....guess not...
    
    sheeesh, just when ya think you know some people...
    ;^)

    RE: MIDI Rack Pukes
    
    I'll join for sure if I take the buyout! ;-)

    If I only played one type of music, I'd be a "twin" kinda guy.  But the
    band I'm with now is doing country and some classic rock along with
    southern rock and blues, PLUS, the guys are also metalheads - gotta
    have the versatility.  
    
    I don't consider myself a rack "puke" 'cuz none of my gear was
    purchased because of it's light show .... The Mosvalve only has 1 dinky
    light ... sheesh ... I'm such an underachiever ...
    
    Scary (midi-bluesman ...)

    
    Wrong Jerry.  Admitting your problem is the first step to recovery.
    You are a midi-rack puke.  Anytime you go over a 3 space rack, you
    are suspected of being a m/r/p.  What, you must be up to 6 spaces
    by now?  Hmmm...   I like EJ's approach.  Amp switching!  Also,
    his rack had dusty *foot pedals* thrown in it!  Jerry, I think you're
    gonna go super nova before you get better - the ole pendulum effect.
    Buck is the guy that confuses me.  He's Mister straight ahead, but I 
    thought all Ibanez/Charvel types were rack pukes.  I'm gonna have to 
    re-think this whole thing now.
    
    many ;^)'s to all.

    Hey Blair_Unit,
    
    These hands have NEVER touched a steekin Shovel, ummm, Charvel!!
    
      _    /|   
      \'o.O'    
      =(___)=   Aack!!!
         U      
    

    RE: .40
    
    Oh yeah ??  Whats that Randy Rhodes thingie you got ??  I got pictures
    of you playin' it.  Jackson/Charvel - Charvel/Jackson same-same.
    Wayne Charvel and Grover Jackson same-same.
    
    RE: .39
    
    Pat, you crack me up!
    
    RE: Scary
    
    Dude, listen to you !  In one sentence he tells us he *has* to hav
    "pretty screws" and in the next sentence tells us he's not a MRP (not
    to be confused with the manufacturing term ;) !  Dude, you *even* have
    a MIDI continous controller attached to your patch changin' doo-hickey!
    You ARE a MRP.  It takes one to know one.  Plus it's the only way to
    play country, metal, blues and straight rock without having 27
    different amps.
    
    Pats right.  Admitting your a Rack Puke is the first step to buying
    MORE rack stuff and working your way up to the top of the heap by
    getting ahold of an Eventide, TC 2290, Boogie 295 Simul-class, multiple 
    preamped, Bradshaw switched rig. o I mean why buy the *amps* when you
    can have switched PREAMPs.  It's a lot less costly, and you won't need
    a crew of stage hands to lug it, or an EE degree to set it up.  ;)
    
    But first you need to rewire that new 4x12 you have to be a mono 4x12
    or stereo 2x12's.  Greg can tell you how to do it.  Stereo RULES.  :)
    
    jc

    >Oh yeah ??  Whats that Randy Rhodes thingie you got ??  I got pictures
    >of you playin' it.  Jackson/Charvel - Charvel/Jackson same-same.
    >Wayne Charvel and Grover Jackson same-same.
   
    Wrong, oh pukey one!
    
    This Jackson was hand-built by Grover Jackson back when G.J. WAS
    Jackson, and had NO affiliation with Charvel at all.  Also, FYI,
    Wayne Charvel has NO affiliation with Charvel whatsoever.  Wayne
    ran the company when it was a parts company (EVH days), but when 
    Shovel went production, Wayne bagged it!!
    
    As far as this Charvel/Jackson, Jackson/Charvel, Charvette/Hondo
    stuff, it's all crap IMHO!

    Having all your gear in a rack isn't *really* a rack puke.  Having all
    your gear in a rack AND enough lights to land a 747 by, *IS* a rack
    puke.    8^)
    
    I ain't admitting sh*t ! 
    
    Besides, a *real* rack puke wouldn't dare buy a rack with less than 8
    spaces ... mine's 6 and it ain't even full !
    
    Scary (who's back loves the new ozite boz ...)

    >Wrong, oh pukey one!
    
    Wagagagagagaaaaaa...Your killin' me !!   Pukey one.  Wagagagagagaaaa...
    
    Anyhow,
    Hand made.  Big whooopie.  Same axe...Unless your saying that Shovels
    play better because their made in Japan.   ;)  FWIW, I can't tell the 
    diff betwixt a Jackson Soloist or Jackson Dinky Strat and a 'Shovel 
    Model 4...'Cept a $500 Ibanez blows off the $700 Charvel AND the $1500
    Jackson Soloist.
    
    IMHO, jc - who owns a Model 4 and has played many, many Jackson 
               Soloists...Same-same...Ibanez rules (I'msure you'll agree).

      Your wrong! Over six spaces is for MMRP's (Major Midi Rack Pukes).
    I'm more of a AMRP (Average Midi Rack Puke) at six units plus two
    for ventilation (cuz it has too, that's why!).
      Anyone under four units is a SMRP (Starter Midi Rack Puke) and
    is destined to invest in a bigger rack *sometime* down the line!
    
    						AMRP/B()()M

    Put it this way Mr. Puke...
    
    If I was blind-folded, and someone put a Wayne Charvel Charvel strat in
    my hands, and a Charvel Jackson strat in my hands, I could DEFINITELY
    tell the difference NO problem!!!  Without even plugging them in mind
    you, they play THAT differently!
    
    Yo Puke, you ever play one of the old ones?  The ones that like Bill
    Connors used to play?  They roooled!

    I think everything roolz at one time or another ....
    
    Scary (who used to think one of his ex's was pretty hot ...)

>      Anyone under four units is a SMRP (Starter Midi Rack Puke) and
>    is destined to invest in a bigger rack *sometime* down the line!
    
    I want a 4!  

    
    Wrong, oh Pukey one!
    
    Geez Buck, I laughed so hard I had to wipe the spit off my screen!

    Yo Boom, you forgot one:
    
        4 rack slots - rack puke wannabe
    
    > I want a 4!  
    
    There's one now...
    
    Greg

    No, the RACK Puke Wannabee's are the people who buy the Anvil 2-space
    racks from Music Emporium for $99.99!

    Where on the MRP scale do folks with 24u racks on casters land?
    
    Edd

    Thanks Buck!
    
    Yo Greg:
    
      _    /|   
      \'o.O'    
      =(___)=   pffffttt!!!
         U      
    

    I believe anyone in the 12-24 rack space league fall into the MIDI
    Rackaholic Puke category!!!  These people are sent to a special wing of
    the Betty Ford CTR!  When they come out, they're people like me ...
    guitar-cord-amp!
    
    Buck, a recovering 8-space MIDI Rack Puke!
    
    PS - Anyone using above 24 rack spaces are automatically committed!

    > When they come out...guitar-cord-amp.
    
    Oh, gahd! The keyboard equivalent is a Rhodes! I'm doomed....
    
    Edd

    12-24 Rack spaces for a guitar Rig ????????????
    
    I call 'em Steve Vai !
    
    Wagagagagagagaaaa...
    
    Or OKMRP's
    
    
    That's Over Kill MIDI Rack Pukes.
    
    Wagagagagagagaga

    re : .54 & .56
    
      That club includes Paul Gilbert, Ronnie Montrose, Neal Schon,
    and probably any of Bob Bradshaw's customers since his sytems 
    just route all the signals. Oh yeah, include Reb Beach the endorsement
    king (just saw his Carvin ad!).
    
    							-B()()M- 

    My rack has 8 spaces but I can quit anytime I wanna - I just don't
    
    	Dave Blickstein
    	Found of MA (MIDIholic's Anonymous)

       
       
       
       
        
       I just bought an 8 space Grundorf Pr8 8 space rack at Guitar
       Center for $115.  Should I have applied Vaseline, first, or is
       this a good price?
       
       
       
       
       

    I don't know Grundorf, but I'd say $115 is a good enough deal.
    
    jc

    
    
    6u racks roooooool!!! ....
    
    Charvels roooooool!!! ....
    
    Ibanez sux  8)

    	Does anyone know where to find the 10/32 rack mounting machine
    screws?  I've tried several local hardware stores and no one seems to
    carry them.  They all tell me it's an oddball thread size, but I would
    rather not strip out my rack rails.
    
    /Steve

10-32 is *not* an odd-ball !!  It's VERY common. 

However, they may balk at the head shape of a "rack screw"...  But any head
should work...  Also, most music stores have them, but bring the KY.  :)

jc

    There are two "standard" thread densitys for screws, 24 threads/inch
    and 32.  It would seem that a lot of hardware stores don't want to
    stock the 32 tpi screws except in very little sizes (8 and smaller). 
    
    Jeff's right about the head pattern.  Most of the 10/32 screws I've
    found in hardware stores were either hex head cap screws (which
    actually look great in a rack!) and slotted.  The large head Phillips
    screws seem to be some sort of a specialty item.
    
    Next time I get some, I'm going to find a mail order source so I can
    get them for a fair price.  The music stores seem to want something
    like $.10-.20 each for them and I think the price should be more like
    $.03 (to coorespond with the standard hw store price for other similar
    sized screws).  Naturally I'll buy in quantity.
    
    Don't forgot the nylon washers so you don't scratch up your gear...
    
    Greg
                                                                       

    re 10/32 screws.  
      You might want to check out a hobby shop that supports those radio
    controlled model cars.
    
    Ken

FWIW - I'm in the process of replacing all my rack screws with Nylon
screws and washers.  This eliminates any gorund-loop problems and such.
Send me mail for details.

jc

    
    
      Most music stores have them in a pack of 20 or so for around $4.95.
    That usually includes the nylon washer that keeps you from scratching
    up your gear. I know PROCO has a package of rack screws.
    
    							-B()()M-
    

    Thanks for the _tips_ ...  hopefully, it will enable me to avoid
    being _tipped_ by my local music_dealer_shark...  8^)
    
    /steve

    Since I'm upgrading my whole guitar rig, I'm looking for a new rack
    case (two, actually).
    
    I spoke to "Mike" at Mikes Cases in Denver - Custom stuff. Err, that
    means expensive.  Lesse, $450 for a *two* custom made, shocked 5 space
    stackable racks...These are your basic racks, surrounded by two inches
    of foam, and stuffed into a flight case - They are really nice...But
    the $450 scared me away.  So I asked about two Anvil Forge II style
    racks, and that was gonna run $330 for the pair...   BTW - I'd get my
    choice of colors, logos or whatever...  Still mighty expensive, since
    Musicians Fiend has 6 space Anvil AFX cases for $115ish... (each).
    
    Anyway, I'd love to have shocked racks (the foam kind).  Can anyone
    recommend a place to make 'em for me thats a little more affordable
    than "Mikes"  -  Armadillo??  Anvil??  Help!
    
    jc
    
    PS - I currently own a 12 space Boogie SUS-4 rack, but my wife is
    getting REALLY tired of helping me up the stairs with it...  I'm
    planning of selling, or retiring it to studio duty.

    
    
    Coop, just get a normal rack, load up them components, drill a hole in
    the top of the rack, put the covers on, and fill 'er up with some of
    that expanding spray foam from Home Depot.  Talk about shock
    proof...and if you want that retro "Flintstone", spray the outside,
    too, and spray on some of that fake granite-lookin' paint....  maximum
    heaviosity, if you know what I mean...
    
    
    
    
    I shouldn't have to say this, but kids, please don't try this at home
    -- we're professionals!
    
    

    Umm - no.  :-)
    
    Does anyone have the number for Anvil or Armadiller??
    
    jc

>   proof...and if you want that retro "Flintstone", spray the outside,
>   too, and spray on some of that fake granite-lookin' paint....  maximum
>   heaviosity, if you know what I mean...
    
    Cool, a new idea for next time by band plays "Stonehenge". :-)
    
    -b

do they make that spray in colors to match Tolex?

many ;-)

Jim

Better yet do they have them in tiger stripe spandex matches?

:-)

dbii

    You are guys are a big help...
    
    :-)

	The Mesa Boogie sus-4 racks offer about the best protection 
    that you can get. The suspension used in these racks was developed
    for military hardware, so this should tell you something. The
    drawback, of course, is the size and weight. However, Mesa will
    build racks upto 10 spaces with 18" depth, as opposed to the normal 
    24" depth which is standard for them. This is something to consider. 
    If you decide to go this route, I suggest you order them without the 
    optional wheels. The reason I say this is because of the way that 
    Mesa attaches the wheels, they are nearly impossible to remove and 
    having the wheels makes it difficult to stack. You can always add 
    Ernie Ball pullout wheels which would be a lot more convenient, or
    get a dolly.

	I've never understood what foam padding does for a rack. If
    the equipment is firmly attached to the rack rails, what protection
    does the foam padding offer? I also wonder if the padding would tend
    to hold the heat inside the rack as well. 

	My gear is in three racks. 2 of them are Tour efx-style racks
    with light (1/4" thick plywood) construction. The other is a Roadie
    rack with similar construction. All are black, and have road trim and 
    surface mount hardware. These are not super heavy duty racks, but they 
    offer enough protection to get from point A to B without damage and 
    they are lightweight. The Tour efx racks are 14" deep. This may not 
    seem very deep, but my Mesa Boogie preamp fits with room to spare. 

	If you want heavy duty, you are gonna pay in terms of both bulk,
    and cost. For most folks, a relatively light-duty rack is sufficient.
    It works for me! Just stay away from the plastic injection-molded
    racks. They may be ATA approved, but they are not "Blues Approved".

	I think I have an old Anvil catalog at home. If I can find it,
    I'll post the number tomorow. Don't expect Anvil to be cheap!
    
	TTFN....Mark

    Thanks Mark -
    
    For what it's worth, I *have* a Boogie SUS-4 (Twelve space).
    It's a *monster* !!!  I can't even get up the stairs with it.
    I want two smaller ones...
    
    jc

    >>>> -< Spandex indeed...  that was a WHILE ago... >-
    
    Yes...  and you'll be paying for it for a long time Coop!
    
    
    >>>> You are guys are a big help...
    
    Would you expect anything less of us?
    
    ;^)'s
    
    
    	Fred (who likes smaller size rack units since they don't walk by 
              themselves)

    
    How much they getting for the Sus-4 rack?
    
    Kev --
     

    RE: -.1
    
    $400+  ...Big $$!  Make me an offer on mine!
    
    RE: -.2
    
    Gee Fred, I don't think you ever saw me in spandex-n-leather before...
    :-)
    
    Here's a good story - two weeks into my new job, and I'm on call, and
    playing a local club...  Get paged, finish the night and go into work
    right off the stage.  Ya shoulda seen the look on the operators face when 
    the "new guy" (who usually wore a tie during normal hours) comes 
    walking in at 2:30am with leather, spikes, and spandex to fix the busted 
    system.
    :-)
    

    
    >  $400+  ...Big $$!
    
    Indeed!!  You mentioned the weight of the rack as being
    somewhat bulky.  Hmmm, I've got a set of stairs to deal
    with as well.  Perhaps I should look around...
    
    Kev --
     

    Well, MY TriAxis say in this case....  :-)
    
    

    
      Hey Coop, I told you the M/B Sus-4 was heavy when I sold it to ya!
    Back then you said "No Problem". Must've been when you didn't have 
    stairs where you were living then. Anyway, I apologize to your wife for 
    selling that to you, since she had to help you. But I'm NOT apologizing
    to you!
    
      I am currently using one six space rack for my preamp/effects and a
    two space that holds my Velocity 300 power amp. This works out well
    since the Velocity is the heaviest two-space piece have. Also, my
    tuner and wireless are in a two space "short" case. That allows me to
    use it with any of my amps.
    

    Well, back then, I was in a band and playing out all the time, so I 
    didn't have to deal with stairs too often...AND I had people to 
    help me...
    
    Ended up snarfing a Grundorf 8sp for the thing - still heavy as
    hell, but I can move it myself anyway (100lbs or so).
    
    jc

    I suggest you keep an eye on the used market. Here in Mass, the
    wand ads has tons of rack gear. If I see a good deal, I'll let you
    know. You could always have it shipped. 
    
    Mark