Conference napalm::guitar

    >......to terms with the fact that I was not a "Natural"....
    
     Does anyone here know of or heard of "a natural"? The most important
    "talent" is perserverence. What's that saying......something about
    5% blah-blah and 95% sweat.
    
    chuck

    When I say that I had to come to terms with the fact that I was not "a
    natural" I meant that I had always been very good at air-guitaring and
    it just came as a bit of a blow when I was'nt as good playing the real
    thing.8*) 8*) 8*).
    	   Oh and BTW a happy new year. 
    Dougie.

    Don't play like BB King...you'll only regret it later on in life
    when your existance has diminished to long waits for Dawg to come to
    Stormy Monday's to go and jam the blues.  Buy a Racer X album instead
    and learn how to play like Paul Gilbert (a *real* geetar player)!
    
    ;')

    How about a serious reply for a change...
    
    Your best bet is to get a teacher and take lessons.  Books and vids are
    fine for some people but they lack one element: guilt, fear, sweaty
    palms when your teacher asks you to play that etude he assigned last
    week (and you didn't practice because you were listening to Bill Buckley
    playing the blooz on a GuitarNoters tape all week instead).
    
    A teacher can *see* what you are doing right and wrong and correct you,
    a book or video can't.
    
    I started with books, got frustrated after a few months and gave up for
    a few years, like you.  Then I took lessons for a few months which got
    me good enough to jam in garages with other people, then after about
    two years of that, I studied for two years straight and really got my
    stuff together.  
    
    I actually just started lessons *again* ten years later, because
    there's stuff that I feel needs improvement.  I was able to verify this
    when I found I couldn't play any of the etudes that my new teacher gave
    me the first week  8^)  As he told me, "it's tough to admit that after
    playing as a professional for a number of years that there are things
    you can't do right".  
    
    So bottom line:  take at least six months of lessons to get yourself
    off the ground.  After that, the books and vids can keep you moving
    forward at your own pace.
    
    							Brian

    >>Buy a Racer X album instead and learn how to play like Paul Gilbert
    
    Who?   8*}
    
    Dougie,
    
    I started at age 13 (eons ago) with a book on how to play chords.  I
    then was able to hook up with other players that were better than me (a
    habit I still frequent) and learn from them.  I never really practiced
    alone much....I "lived" to jam with my buddies and I learned alot
    faster that way.....it was alot more fun than "working" home alone. 
    Alot of my playing nowadays is done with backing tapes or just jamming
    along with my favorite CD (not Paul Pillbert or whatever his name is).
    I only tried to learn to read music for about an hour once and gave it
    up when I discovered I could "figure songs out" by listening to them
    (lazy, huh...). I do know where all the notes are on the fretboard, and 
    most variations of chords and how to identify certain scales and
    positions. Anyway, get some boks, get some buddies, get some videos and
    BE PATIENT!  Bite off little chunks at a time......it'll come.
    
    steve
    
     

    I second the motion to get a teacher.
    
    I've played & quit & played & quit for some time now. But, when I was 
    playing on my own it always seemed like my progress was more "plateaus"
    than "hills". You can easily develop bad habits whether you realize it
    or not.
    
    I now have a teacher (someone from this conference who shall remain 
    anonymous!) and find myself practicing "things" that I'd *NEVER* have
    practiced before. And because I'd never have thought/found out about
    these "things" on my own, it's all foreign to me. But, the result is
    more hills than plateaus.
    
    I think that the books are great, but use the two methods together and
    be patient.
    
    Don

    Another great thing about a teacher is that there's someone to answer
    your questions. 
    
    And don't play a crappy guitar.Play something which can be tuned!!!
    
    Don

>    	     I would like to take the guitar down and dust it off and be
>    able to play straight away like BB King
    
    Frank Marino claimed that he took acid and decided he could play the
    guitar, picked one up (having never played a guitar before) and could
    play as well that day as he ever did.
    
    Not that I'm advocating his approach to the instrument or anything...
    
    Greg

>    Frank Marino claimed that he took acid and decided he could play the
>    guitar, picked one up (having never played a guitar before) and could
>    play as well that day as he ever did.


I noticed that you never said how well he "ever did" play...

I tried to teach myself fiddle once, and was forced to stop by the SPCA. I have
no doubt, though, that if I picked it up today I'd play as well as I ever did.

(Scary thought...I've been thinking about trying fiddle again, so *watch* it!)

Bob

>I noticed that you never said how well he "ever did" play...
    
    Haha!  Actually, *I* liked his playing, but a lot of people ragged 
    him for sounding too much like Hendrix (Marino claimed he played guitar
    like that long before ever hearing Jimi...riiiiight).
    
    Greg

    
    
    
    Damn! Just my luck - I dropped acid, picked up the guitar for the very
    first time, and I sounded just like Neil Young!
    
    
    
    

    > I dropped acid, picked up the guitar...
    
    Holy Orange Sunshine, Batman!! I picked up the acid, and dropped the
    guitar!!!
    
    Edd

    
    	sorry about continuing the rathole but I had a set of drums
    	in my basement once and a good friend stopped by.  He had
    	never even played an instrument before.  He sat at the drums
    	and played very unlike a drummer - no bass, snare, bass-bass,
    	snare.  Just hit stuff with both hands, both feet.  It was
    	extremely musical and he definitely kept a great beat.  I
    	plugged in and we played tons of tunes.
    
    	Another friend came over and saw Dave on the drums.  "You can't
    	play those things", he said.  So we just played and his jaw
    	dropped.
    
    	Never heard anything like it - we played for 4 or 5 hours and
    	had a riot.
    
    	Tom
    

    	I'm not sure about being a "natural" at playing any instrument-- 
    no matter who you are, it always takes practice. But some people are 
    just more "natural" for some instruments than others.

    	I have a friend from high school, Mike Reid, who I jammed with
    for years. He was always a clunky and awkward guitar player (forgive
    me, Mike). If you heard him play, you'd think he was never going to
    "get it". But the first time he ever picked up a bass he sounded like
    he'd been playing bass for years. He was smooth & fluid... very
    melodic. He was a BIG Beatles & McCartney fan and I'm sure that had
    alot to do with it. But we always thought it was wild how he sounded
    so good on bass that very first time. To this day, he's still one
    of my favorite guys to jam with. The closest person to a "natural" I've
    ever met... just instictively knew how to play bass.
    
    
    	I've known pleanty of guys that started out sounding bad and turned
    out great musicians, but that was all hard work & effort on their part.
    
    
    Brad
    

    Thanks for the advice,I must admit that I had thought about a teacher
    but did'nt know if I could afford one.I always thought you would need
    to take out a second morgatge to be able to pay for the lessons(that's
    why I never really looked into it.)
    	A few more questions:-
    1)How would I go about finding a good teacher?
    
    2)How much approx. would the lessons cost?
    
    3)Is it better to take the lessons weekly,fortnightly or monthly?
    (I suppose it depends on your budget)
    
    	Thanks again 
    		Dougie.
    

    I also know a "natural"; Ed our drummer (Alternate Quartet).  Ed's one
    of those guys who can pick up an instrument for the first time and make
    music on it.  Often, sitting around at practice he'll grab a guitar or
    bass, flip it upside down (he's a lefty) and start doodling a line
    that'll make you stop and listen.  He doesn't play guitar or bass, and
    his technique is primitive, but it doesn't seem to matter.  Even doing
    something as simple as casually snapping fingers or whistling, he seems
    to take it to a higher plane than everyone else.  Naturally.  On his
    main axe, Ed is usually the one you hear people in the audience buzzing
    about after one of our gigs.  I'm sure he's worked hard at his art over
    the years, but no question he is a gifted individual to start with.
    
    /rick
    

    >1)How would I go about finding a good teacher?
    
    Ask other guitarists (if you know any) for recommendations...or any
    other musicians you might know.  Go to a music store and ask them about
    a trial lesson (to see if you can get along with the guy and he is
    willing to teach you what you want to learn...i.e. if you want to play
    Black Sabbath and he insists you learn classical fingerstyle, look
    out).  Look up music teachers in the phone book.  Call up the music
    teacher at the local schools and ask for a recommendation.  Go to a
    psychic.  Consult the I Ching.  Etc.
    
    Finding a good teacher the first time out isn't too hard, finding a
    *great* teacher is.
    
    >2)How much approx. would the lessons cost?
    
    In the US, prices vary.  $10-20 an hour for an *average* teacher.  Real
    good teachers get more (I pay mine $30/hr).  No idea about in other
    countries.
    
    >3)Is it better to take the lessons weekly,fortnightly or monthly?
    >(I suppose it depends on your budget)
    
    Weekly is best because the feedback is more immediate.  Less often only
    if you really can't afford it every week or it's a long trip to lessons
    (I drive an hour for mine).
    
    							Brian

>>    Frank Marino claimed that he took acid and decided he could play the
>>    guitar, picked one up (having never played a guitar before) and could
>>    play as well that day as he ever did.
    
    I have no problem believing that.

> I noticed that you never said how well he "ever did" play...
    
    Ah... the key question.
    
    Frank Marino is the "Little Richard" of guitar in that he claims to
    have invented nearly everything and discovered nearly everyone.
    
    > Marino claimed he played guitar like that long before ever hearing 
    > Jimi...riiiiight
    
    He also claimed that he was doing finger-tappen ala Van Halen long
    before Eddie.
    
    Maybe he was, but maybe the reason Eddie became famous for it and he
    didn't was because what he did sucked?
    
    	db

    I don't know any other guitarists...so maybe someone in here could
    recommend a good teacher in or around the Edinburgh area?
    
    	Dougie. Who_can't_wait_to_get_started.

        Dougie,
        
        Your best  bet is to head into Embra and visit the music shops.
        They'll  almost always  either  give  lessons  or  be  able  to
        recommend someone, maybe in your area (ie. near home).
        
        Awrabest,
        
        Andy
        

    off the topic but,
    
    who the hell is Frank Marino?
    
    dawg

    -1
    
    Frank Marino and Mahogany Rush.  A very excellent guitar player.  I
    remember when I was growing up, just learning the guitar, and seeing
    Frank on like a "Midnight Special" show or something...it was live,
    and I could not believe the sounds he was getting from his Gibson SG.
    
    I know becuase I had an SG at the time, and was boggled!  ;')

    RE: FM,
    
    "Mahogany Rush" rings a bell..........but Buck you grew up waaaaaay
    after I did, I should know this guy!
    
    assuming I've grown up.......questionable.
    
    steev

    Frank Marino and Mahogany Rush were fairly popular in the mid to late
    70s.  I think their popularity was more regional then some artists, I
    heard about 'em when I was living in Detroit.  I think they were from
    Canada.  Three piece, heavily reminicent of Hendrix.  I had/have 2 or 3
    of their albums and there was some music on there that I really
    enjoyed.  Frank sounds like a total flake though...
    
    FWIW, the "instant ability after acid" story came out of the newest
    issue of Guitar Player, where they look back on the 70s.  Apparently
    directly out of an interview with Marino back then.
    
    Greg
    
    
    
    
                                                       

    Moderator....maybe you should move this Marino thread out of here?

    Thanks to everyone who has offered their advice.
    	P.s never heard of this Mankie Frankie or whatever his name is.
    
    Cheers Dougie.