Conference napalm::guitar

	Hey, a price would be nice to see.
	Also, a review of how it works from anybody who has had
	a chance to try one out would also be nice.
	When are they going to be available?

Rick

    Wouldn't be grand if it were in the same $$ neighborhood as the SGE?!?!
    
    Mike

    Hey, it'd be nice if they were a grand ! (1K$).  I'd be willing
    to bet they'd list for about $1700 or so ... without the FC-100
    or EV-5.
    
    
    
    
    		Scary (who's willing to trade his GP-8 on one ...)

    They had one at Parker Music about a month ago...
    
    Suggested retail was $1799.  I *ran* away !
    
    jc (Who didn't try it, cuz he was scared he'd like it !)

      For that price I'd rather MIDI another rack unit to the SGE and
    have as many if not more effects AND money left over. I didn't think
    it would list for that much. I expected around 1K w/o the FC100.
    I was gonna bet that the GP-16 would sell but I think I'll reserve
    judgement. I'll get the specs soon anyway.

    Roland is notorious for being overpriced, but having good gear.  
    
    I'd never pay that for an effects unit.  Sheesh, for that you could buy
    *THREE* SGEs *and* a MIDI foot controller!
    
    Greg

    Would you rather have 3 Yugo's or 1 Porsche ?
    
    
    
    Just raggin' ya there Greg !  
    
    
    
    
    				Scary

    This month's Electronic Musician has a very good article comparing
    ME-5, SGE, Yamaha, etc. GUITAR signal processors. Comparisons
    include "retail" prices, features, etc. 
    
    For what it's worth, I fiddled with an ME-5, and wasn't overly 
    impressed. The distortion didn't seem all that good, but maybe it
    was a bad day at the shop. I'll try again........
    
    Bill

    re: Jerry
    
    I'd take *one* SGE over a GP-8 any day!  It's like comparing an RX-7
    with a Mercedes.  The RX-7 is faster, handles better, and costs less.
    
    Greg 

    
    
     I'm selling my GP-8 if anyones interested.  It's not because I want
    a GP-16 either. Selling price $1000 including FC100 the Morly version
    of the EV5, works just as nice, a brand new midi cable for the FC100,
    I'm still using the old one that will come with the package to.
    
      I am willing to negotiate.
    
      I work 1st shift DTN 237-3539 or home after 5:00 485-7409
      I do alot of running around at work so keep trying if you
      can't get me once.  I'll be listening.
    
                        Tim Hastings
    

    
    
      To add to note 1465.10
    
      Mailing address  MPGS::HASTINGS
    

	
	Gp-16 @$1700! No thanks. I don't wanna know how good it is either.
	I hope Roland IS reading this notes file!

Rick

      OK, here's some good news-
    The dealer that sold me my GP-8 told me he has a list price of $1199
    for the GP-16. That's a little more like it! Still not cheap but
    hey, this is Roland. Here's an effects break down:
    
    		Block A (mono)			Block B (stereo)
    
    		1-compressor			1-short delay
    		2-dist/overdrive		2-ch/fl/ps/sp *
    		3-picking filter		3-auto panner
    		4-phaser			4-tapped delay
    		5-parametric EQ (4 band!)	5-reverb
    		6-noise suppressor		6-lineout filter
    
    	*- chorus/flanger/pitch shifter/spatial expander
      
      Obviously you can't combine certain effects like in Block B #2
    you get to use one of these effects only. I'm sure the quality of
    the digital effects is better than the GP-8. I don't know what the
    range is of the pitch shifter. There is a input level control and
    headroom indicator (sorely missed in the GP-8). Balance XLR ins
    and outs as well as 1/4" standard jacks (nice for using direct).
    And the direct out sound is adjustable thru Block B Efect #6.
      The unit still uses the same footswitch and expression pedal as
    the GP-8. Another additional feature is two switchable(programmable) 
    outputs for selecting different amps. 
      All in all it seems to be nice. I'd have to play one. I don't
    think it's gonna be worth the extra money ever my SGE though. 

    Actually, I'm not terribly disturbed at the price.  I'm not that
    familiar with the SGE, but it's been described as an "multi-effects
    processor" and I think the GP-16 is really a bit more than that.
    
    The key thing about the GP-16 is INTEGRATION; It's a very
    complete guitar control system.  In addition to effects, it does
    a variety of signal routing functions (to outboard effects, amp
    switching, channel switching, tuning cutoff) MIDI *AND* non-MIDI
    control of outboard effects and another difference between it and 
    the GP-8 is that it has an amp simulator (for recording) and 
    several kinds of outputs (XLR, phone plug, etc.).
    
    In conjunction with the FC-100, it's hard to imagine needing
    ANYTHING else (except perhaps something like an Ada MP-1).
    
    If I was a pro, I'd certainly get one.
    
    I would much rather have ONE integrated rack unit than THREE rack 
    units.  Maybe you have to have "been there" to appreciate the
    integration feature.  I've had some pretty amazingly complex setups
    and the GP-16 would have eliminated a lot of the cost, complexity,
    errors, weight and setup/breakdown time.  (The GP-8 already does
    a lot for me).
    
    If you're not someone who wants to do some pretty particular things
    with heavily processed guitar, I can easily understand why the GP-16
    doesn't seem like a good deal.
    
    Actually I can think of one thing they left out: A digital tuner.
    
    Other than that, I'd be hard pressed to ask for more in a unit
    price under $2000.
    
    	db

    Music Emporium's current mail order catalog has the GP-16 priced
    at $995.00.   Too close to a grand for me to justify . . .
    
    Steve

    I called my local music store and asked about that unit too.  They
    said that the GP-8's were being discontinued because they could
    sell the GP-16 for about $45 more !  That sounds like a good deal
    to me.  And the salesman said that the reason the GP-16 was sooo
    high was because, (his quotes ...) "it's a REAL guitar sound processor,
    not a guitar gadget like the SGE ..".  I read up on it in the Roland
    Users Guide and it has some serious proffessional applications so
    I guess unless you wanted to do some heavy MIDI stuff or recording
    you wouldn't need *that* much versatility.  Besides, if you buy
    2 decent rack effects you've already dumped close to a grand in
    it already, and this way you save money on that extra MIDI cable.
    
    
    
    			8^)		Scary ...

    >And the salesman said that the reason the GP-16 was sooo high was
    >because, (his quotes ...) "it's a REAL guitar sound processor, not a
    >guitar gadget like the SGE ..". 
    
    Sounds like bullsh*t to me.  At what point does something cease to be a
    "guitar gadget" and become a "real guitar sound processor"?  I hate
    sales people that cop an attitude like that.  Next week when he goes to
    work at a different store that sells ART products, he'll be badmouthing
    Roland...
    
    Greg

    No kiddin'.  Some people will say anything...  Jerry, If your talking 
    about Rick, he told me he "loved" the SGE...
    
    ;^)

    Of course he did .... YOU have an SGE an are a potential customer.
    I bought my GP-8 from him ... that's sales for ya !    
    
    %^}
    
    
    
    				Scary

    re: last few
    
    > Sounds like bullsh*t to me.  At what point does something cease to be a
    > "guitar gadget" and become a "real guitar sound processor"?  
    
    At the point where it starts doing things like signal routing,
    integrated switching, control/coordination of other MIDI *AND*
    non-MIDI effects, etc. etc. all of which the GP-16 does and the
    SGE (and various other multi-effect units) do NOT.
    
    Guys, it's really not marketing bullshit.  The GP-16 does a WHOLE LOT more
    than something like the SGE.  Read .14.
    
    I can understand why most folks wouldn't appreciate the difference
    between a GP-16 and the various multi-effect processors, but if
    you're heavily into processed guitar and/or having a complex
    rig, the GP-16 really is a very significant product.
    
    Guys who plug their Les Paul right into the Marshall aren't going
    to appreciate what it does, but guys with several amps, various
    effects, complicated music that call for a wide variety of tones,
    effects, etc. are going to buying up GP-16's like there's no tommorrow.
    
    	db

>    Guys, it's really not marketing bullshit.  The GP-16 does a WHOLE LOT more
>    than something like the SGE.  Read .14.

    I have read .14.  I understand the units capabilities.  I really
    couldn't care less *how* much more it does then an SGE, that does not
    give some sales person license to insult other useful (competing)
    products.  I consider the term "guitar gadget" as being a condecending,
    derogatory phrase, clearly intended to diminish the listeners view of
    the device being described.  I am adamently opposed to the "put down
    competing products" sales technique that seems so prevelant lately.
    It's the kind of mentality that says "If you don't have <product X>,
    then you're dirt".  I really don't appreciate this approach.
    
    I like to think that I'm capable of making my own decisions as far as
    what equipment I need.  I want to have a sales person tell me about the
    product that I'm looking at, not other products.  I can make any
    subjective comparisons myself, I don't want or need help doing that. 
    It's getting to the point where going to a music store is like going to
    a used car lot, you can't trust anyone.
    
    Don't take this as a personal insult, Dave. I know and respect *your*
    knowledge (and opinion) of these products.  Clearly the GP-16 has
    outstanding capabilities, but surely you'd agree that the term "real
    guitar signal processor" is pretty ambiguous.  That could be used to
    describe anything from a cheap stomp box to the most sofisticated
    modern electronic marvel.  I maintain that "guitar gadget", as the
    previous noter described it's use, is a derogotary term.  That's why I
    referred to it as bullsh*t.  If another more descriptive phrase (such
    as "guitar signal/sound control system") were used in place of "real
    guitar sound processor", I would not be opposed to it's use.
    
    However I feel that the term "real guitar sound processor" describes
    the SGE just as well as it does the GP-16.  My SGE is just as REAL as
    any other product on the market!  It does what I need and it met my
    budget, how does that make it a bad choice?  Why is it just a "gadget"
    when it does more then 95% of the competing products on the market?
    
    Greg

    OK, Greg.
    
    I understand.
    
    All I meant to say was that the GP-16 really is not "just another"
    multi-effects/signal-processing device ala the SGE, Multi-Verb,
    etc. etc.
    
    A lot of people are putting it down because of it's price without, IMO,
    appreciating what it does that is different and justifies (for many)
    its moderately high price.
    
    	db

    Thanks Dave (also thanks for ignoring my glaring spelling errors, I
    forgot to use DECspell...  :-)
    
    I didn't intend to put down the GP-16, it sounds very nice, just that
    salesmans attitude.
    
    Greg

    You would have to read up on the GP-16 to really understand how
    powerful it is.  If you have a complex rig that is made up of sveral
    MIDI devices along with devices with on/off type footswitches then
    you can really appreciate it.  I think this salesman calling the
    SGE a "gadget" was wrong, but I can see how he'd try and promote
    Roland products since I bought my GP-8 from him and he said it was
    like seeing your child move away from home ... he really liked.
    
    
    
    				Scary

    
    I don't believe that the SGE and MultiVerb are "just another" effects
    processor, they are a little better than that.  Granted, the MV
    and the SGE are a lot alike but not completely (no analog effects
    on the MV).  Take a look at the price difference from the SGE/MV
    and the GP-16.  Enough said.  The SGE is a very real guitar effects
    processor and is capable of alot of different things, at a price
    that the average musician can afford with little or no problem.
    It brings that "big" sound to us little guys witjin a reasonable
    price.  By the way Scary, it can't be all that bad, it is the hottest
    selling piece of equipment out right now.
    
    Mr. Ed...

    > Take a look at the price difference from the SGE/MV and the GP-10
    > Enough said.
    
    No, that's my point.  Not nearly enough is said.
    
    As to whether the SGE( or Multiverb) is "just another" multi-effector 
    I don't care to argue that.  The point I was make is that it is,
    inarguably, another multi-effectors (albeit good quality 
    multi-effectors).
    
    The GP-16 is MORE than a multi-effector.  It does many other things
    besides multiple effects.  In fact, it might still be viable even
    if it didn't do multi-effects!
    
    Many of you may not be inclined or in a position to take advantage
    of the other things it does, and thus the extra cost may not be
    justified for you, but you really can't compare the two strictly
    on price.
    
    Frankly, I think the GP-16 is a significantly better deal.  The only
    alternative to a GP-16 is something like a custom rack from
    Bob Bradshaw which goes for a lot more than around a grand.
    
    	db 

    
    Regardless, I'll take the SGE.
    
    
    Mr. Ed...

    Just let me win the lottery then see my rack grow

    
    Wouldn't everybodies ?!  Megabucks!!  I can see that 16 stack,
    quadruple-amped, 1000-space rack, quad stereo bass system now!!
    
    Mr. Ed...

    I heard quite a lot of GP-8 & GP-16 over here in france and although
    they seem to be really interesting I'm not interested in a most
    of their features. I'm looking to a straight forward multieffect
    rack having a good overdrive/distorsion a compressor/sutainer a
    phaser a chorus a flanger a delay and a reverb a parametric or graphic
    equalizer would be appreciated. It should be easy to use and alow to
    use a maximum number of simultaneous effects. I heart all of you
    talking about SGE (could somebody give more details, never heart
    about it) any information on the ROLAND GS-6 or the KORG A-3 ?
    
    Taco.

    The SGE certainly meets the criteria you described.  It's made by a
    company called ART.  It will do up to 9 effects at once.  In addition
    to the effects you mentioned, it will also do pitch shifting and has an
    exciter.  The EQ is a little limited (three band), but the selection of
    overdrive/distortions and reverbs is excellent!
    
    I think that it's performance for the price is very good. 
    
    This was my selection of multi-effects units.  Remember that it's not a
    preamp (Jeff Cooper will tell you all about that).
    
    There's a whole note on SGEs somewhere in here, do DIR/TITLE=SGE for a
    LOT more information.  8^)
    
    Greg
                              

      
    
     If anyone's interested:
       
         Roland GP-16 multi-effecter. $488.88!!!! (list is $1200).
    
         Howard Goldman musician's Supply (716) 833-6111 (western NY)
    
    							-B-

Damn!

    re: .32
    
    I wonder if that includes the foot controller?
    
    I bet not, but for an extra $300.00 you can have one of those baby's
    thrown in! Ofcourse if it does include the controller that'd be a
    REALLY excellent price!
    
    
    		Rock on,
    			Fred (who likes the GP-16  alot!)

    The Foot controllers sell for a lot less than $300 (more like $150).
    
    Anyway, I got both the GP-16 and the Foot Controller for $599 from
    Daddy's which is probably an even better price than $488 for just
    the GP-16.

Arrrgh...I can still remember paying something like $800 for my GP-8!

    I thought I got a deal on my GP8/pedals for $1150 ... ouch !
    
    Scary (who's using it again ...)