Conference napalm::guitar

    I had the same problem of tuning a 12 string, specially an electric.
    The solution was to get a guitar tuner.
    

I have found that the only way to go when tuning a 12-string is to 
invest some money in an electronic tuner. You can buy them for as 
cheaply as $20. I have a Roland TU12, which usually costs between 
$70-80, but it is very convenient. When you pluck a string, it 
automatically determines which note you are playing, so you don't have 
to keep changing the tuner for each individual string.

Any music store will carry some brand of tuners. I'd definitely 
recommend one as a worthwhile investment.

-Dan

    Thanks, but I do have a tuner...and I also use my piano to tune...
    but what I mean is when I tune the second set of strings, do I
    tune them one Octive higher, or just sharp, or what??

    Tune them an octive higher, but only the lower 4 strngs. The 2 upppers
    are tuned to the same octive.
    
    Mark

    This is the procedure i use to tune my 12 String:
    
    First, I tune the regular 6 strings to themselves. Then I tune the
    high E and B string in unison (actually, I tune one of each a little
    flat to get that natural chorusing effect). The I tune the octave
    strings on the low E, A, D & G to fretted notes on the regular six
    strings. This works better than just tuning an octave higher to
    its neighboring string. 
    
    EX - octave 6th string is tunes to the fretted normal e on the d
    string, 2nd fret. octave 5th string is tuned to the fretted normal
    a on the g string, 2nd fret...etc etc.
    
    Try this. When in doubt, I usually tune the strings a little flat,
    as sometimes the guitar seems to sound sharp when playing open chord
    voicings.
    
    wjb

    How about reading my note 187 in this file?
    
    I also raised another note concerning the fact that I had come to
    the conclusion that 12 strings were inherently out of tune by nature
    of their construction. I can't seem to find that note now.
    
    If you look at the bridge of a normal 6 string you will see it
    is NOT parallel to the frets. This is to account for the different
    thickness of strings on the guitar and to ensure they all stretch
    the same distance when pressed. If this did not occur then the guitar
    would sound out of tune the higher up the fretboard you played a
    set of strings. 
    
    Now, translate that to the 12 string which has the same bridge
    arrangement. Give some thought to the thickness of strings on the
    instrument and you begin to see my point. In fact the general opinion
    in the responses to my note was that yes, a 12 is never in tune
    and thats part of its overall character and appeal. So, you need
    to beware of using normal techniques for tuning (ie at the fifth
    fret etc).
    
    I used to be convinced that my instrument was defective because
    no matter how much I tuned it it always sounded out of tune on barre
    chords.
    
    
    Richard Briggs
    UK SWAS
     

    re: -.1
    
    Being out of tune is part of the 12-string's character, but I don't
    find it appealing.  Actually, it's not too hard to modify the bridge
    to compensate the octave strings.  Essentially, you just add a saddle
    parallel to the original, spanning the lower four strings.  Then
    you notch the saddles so that bass strings break over the original
    saddle and pass through the second one, and the octave strings pass
    through the original and break over the second.  In practical terms,
    you do it by cutting a wide saddle slot and shaping the saddle so
    that bass strings break on the back side and octave strings break
    on the front side.
    
    Bob

    Thanks a bunch folks!! Your replies are much appreciated and I do
    believe the situation is under control now. I thought I was loosing
    it for a bit there. And the replies about the characteristics of
    12 strings being out of tune is a relief also. I noticed that the
    intonation was atrocious , but the streight bridge would account
    for that. My guitar is a Val Dez made in Finland in 1971 and seems
    to be a well built instrument, so I was disappointed when I couldn't
    get it to sound decent. I have managed to tune it to a point where
    it does sound pretty good now. Thanks to all of you again and I'm
    sure others may be able to use this information.